Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kate Berlance.
Speaker 2: I'm Jacqueline Novak.
Speaker 1: And this is poog, an ongoing conversation about wellness between
Speaker 1: two obsessive reds.
Speaker 2: Two untamable intellects.
Speaker 1: This is our hobby, this is our hell, this is
Speaker 1: our naked desire for free products. This is poog Today's topics,
Speaker 1: loosely speaking toaster oven monuments, smoothie.
Speaker 2: I just saw Kate's Kate, nice to see you. I
Speaker 2: saw your berry lip, and I'm now screaming for one
Speaker 2: for myself. Chris, will you grab any lipstick at all?
Speaker 2: You're in the closet, vanity.
Speaker 1: Yes, I grabbed my Westpintilier lip God you in the compact.
Speaker 1: It's just how much time do you spend gazing into
Speaker 1: a mirror on average?
Speaker 2: Almost none.
Speaker 1: I gaze constantly, really well as a child. I as
Speaker 1: an only child, of course, but I spent so much
Speaker 1: time in the mirror that.
Speaker 2: Was like Chris has returned with us with a true
Speaker 2: red about your only child.
Speaker 1: Isn't as well as a child. As an only child,
Speaker 1: I spent an infinite number of hours in the mirror.
Speaker 1: And I remember, actually I had a mirror in my room,
Speaker 1: and then I had a little like play vanity. So
Speaker 1: I was like in front of the mirror, and then
Speaker 1: in front of the mirror was like a little vanity mirror.
Speaker 1: So there were actually two mirrors. But I would constantly.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like the average stuff of just you know,
Speaker 1: lip lip syncing, slipping, lip singing. This always happens to me.
Speaker 1: Lip singing, no lip syncing. Wait, it's lip syncing. And okay, okay, yes,
Speaker 1: I just remember it's lip syncing. But I actually think
Speaker 1: it should be lip singing because lip syncing you're sinking
Speaker 1: to the music. But okay, I guess actually.
Speaker 2: Make sense someone else is singing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I called it lip singing for twenty two years.
Speaker 2: Really without you thought everyone was just kind of hitting
Speaker 2: it hard, hitting the consonant hard.
Speaker 1: I thought I was confused, but I also kind of
Speaker 1: doubled down.
Speaker 2: Double down, because you think it should be that.
Speaker 1: To me, it was always lip singing, yeah, because I
Speaker 1: wasn't singing. I was singing just with my lips anyway.
Speaker 2: But uh wait, lips singing. No, right, But then that
Speaker 2: implies that you're singing.
Speaker 1: Right right, right, that's true, true, that's true, that's true.
Speaker 1: I'm not doing another another mirror thing I did. I'll
Speaker 1: just say from the only Child vault that I'd spend
Speaker 1: hours doing. And this is what makes me so grateful
Speaker 1: for having not been exposed to the Internet, or just
Speaker 1: not having the internet as a youth. Not to mark
Speaker 1: myself as being in my very very very early thirties,
Speaker 1: but I used to walk around my house with a
Speaker 1: mirror under my nose. If you place a mirror directly
Speaker 1: unto your nose, it looks like you're walking on the ceiling.
Speaker 2: Oh that old gag. I thought it was hypochondria. No, no, no.
Speaker 1: I would spend so much time walking around my house
Speaker 1: imagining I was walking on the ceiling, and it was
Speaker 1: like utterly I mean I can access that memory somatically.
Speaker 1: It was like deeply thrilling and terrifying. Is like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I'm gonna, you know, walking off up to
Speaker 1: the certain like ledge to the ceiling and thinking you're
Speaker 1: going to fall off.
Speaker 2: It's great, But wait, let me take that in.
Speaker 1: Where did I go just talking about the mirror, And
Speaker 1: then I have a huge full length I have like
Speaker 1: a wall in my bedroom is just purely a mirror.
Speaker 1: I think I've mentioned that.
Speaker 2: Actually, of course, a dancer's wall, So it's.
Speaker 1: Great sometimes just to look in there and gaze. And
Speaker 1: I sometimes I've scared myself in the mirror, which is
Speaker 1: one of the really fun things of mirror work, is
Speaker 1: actually scaring yourself. Like I've sometimes gotten so close and
Speaker 1: I convinced myself I'm being possessed. And I've done that
Speaker 1: actually in an airplane bathroom. Once I took a nap,
Speaker 1: went pe in the bathroom, and you know, the airplane
Speaker 1: mirror is like right there if you're a squatting sitting whatnot.
Speaker 1: And I remember staring into my eyes with such a
Speaker 1: dead gaze for so long that I scared myself. I
Speaker 1: thought that maybe I had either died or that I
Speaker 1: was suddenly possessed and I would never return. And then
Speaker 1: that makes you laugh because you realize, no, I'm not possessed.
Speaker 2: I'm worrying about the laughter.
Speaker 1: And laughing ecstatically in a mirror two inches from your
Speaker 1: own face, soaring fifty thousand feet above the earth. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I highly recommend.
Speaker 2: Well, there's a feeling in going to the bathroom in
Speaker 2: a public place that I love, picularly fair dinner with
Speaker 2: someone and you go to the bathroom or are left
Speaker 2: at the table frankly, Yeah, there's this thing that happens.
Speaker 2: There's this moment when you're no longer wee but I
Speaker 2: it's very odd. It's like, well, well, similar to maybe
Speaker 2: there's a better example is when when do you Okay,
Speaker 2: if you're with someone on the street and say goodbye,
Speaker 2: Imagine if I was about to say, I'm not and
Speaker 2: then you walk the same direction in as hell. Okay, okay,
Speaker 2: if you're not folks, we're not going there. We only
Speaker 2: go to sights unseen. We are frontiersmen. Yes, So not
Speaker 2: that I was going to going to say. The moment
Speaker 2: when you're facial expression and you can watch it on
Speaker 2: other people and it's awkward. Okay, if you watch two
Speaker 2: people say goodbye, the moment that the facial expression goes
Speaker 2: from the goodbye facial expressions of kind of like here, okay,
Speaker 2: here's what it is. Okay, Okay, let's get drops right.
Speaker 2: It can't be so sudden, okay, because spiritually that feels
Speaker 2: it feels spiritually impolite, even though the other person can
Speaker 2: I see your face once you turn around, right.
Speaker 1: You carry a smile until you turn.
Speaker 2: I think you carry it on the full pivot. I
Speaker 2: carry it a good. Four seconds post turn, I'm like
Speaker 2: two steps away before the face is dropped. Okay, wow,
Speaker 2: my utter generosity of spirit.
Speaker 1: I think I I think I drop on the pivot
Speaker 1: drop instantly.
Speaker 2: I can't think I d give you like hearts you
Speaker 2: get help. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I am the pivot sick.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm I'm sick in the head and have this
Speaker 2: fear almost like I guess that someone else would witness
Speaker 2: my face drop and and there and things are are
Speaker 2: something false there? Okay, so I continue the act. It's
Speaker 2: kind of like that idea that they taught us, you know,
Speaker 2: at seven, performing in shows, Okay, like you need to
Speaker 2: stay in character till you're like, you know, ten feet
Speaker 2: off the stage right right, don't anticipate they're about to
Speaker 2: be on stage and drop your character back to your
Speaker 2: asshole self when you get near to the curtain.
Speaker 1: I'm guilty of that. I've seen myself in bit roles
Speaker 1: on television shows where I see myself and I'm one
Speaker 1: hundred percent not acting. No, no, it feels too embarrassing
Speaker 1: to admit. But there's one particular there's one particular and
Speaker 1: I actually can't believe they like kept it. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm one hundred percent not aware that I'm being that
Speaker 1: I'm on camera. That's so funny, Like I see myself
Speaker 1: having completely dropped it.
Speaker 2: But is it your best works? Right?
Speaker 1: Oh, I was gonna say something about retaining the smile.
Speaker 1: This just reminded me. I'll just say quickly of an anecdote.
Speaker 1: John Early once told me of seeing a woman. He
Speaker 1: was hanging out with some woman he knows and her
Speaker 1: like new husband, and then three of them were hanging
Speaker 1: out or something, and then she came in. Because I'm
Speaker 1: always like the performance of domesticity, right, and like so
Speaker 1: much of why we all carry at those patterns just
Speaker 1: literally just because we want to replicate what we saw
Speaker 1: on TV. Right, So it's like being like and I've
Speaker 1: fallen prey to that too. I'm just like like being
Speaker 1: the white with the cocktail tray. Right, It's like you
Speaker 1: can ignore everything in your body screaming, get out, leave everyone,
Speaker 1: run over the hill because of the if you just
Speaker 1: perform it, you know enough, because we just we all
Speaker 1: on some level thing, we're just in a movie. But
Speaker 1: so he recalled seeing the woman smiling taking their empty
Speaker 1: glasses or empty plates, right, turning into the kitchen to
Speaker 1: return the plates, and that she had the smile lifting
Speaker 1: up the plates. And then he caught her off camera,
Speaker 1: so to speak, turning away, still smiling. So she was
Speaker 1: completely alone.
Speaker 2: That is perfect.
Speaker 1: She was completely unobserved, but she retained.
Speaker 2: The Smile's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: That's I'm interested in that when the performance continues when
Speaker 1: you're alone, because I feel myself continuing to perform alone,
Speaker 1: right Or I think for me because I spent a
Speaker 1: lot of time alone as a kid, but as an adult,
Speaker 1: I tried to kind of dwarf that time as much
Speaker 1: as possible. Or I it's not as I sometimes I
Speaker 1: find myself being alone performing being alone of look at
Speaker 1: me with my journal, oh you know, or it's like
Speaker 1: me on the bed being like I'm going to read tonight.
Speaker 1: Yeah no, no, no, you know, and then it's completely.
Speaker 2: Me and my my friend. Growing up, we like we're
Speaker 2: very aware of this, and as small children, we were
Speaker 2: like we referred to it as the camera in the
Speaker 2: upper left corner of the room.
Speaker 1: Okay, amazing.
Speaker 2: It was like it was like and it was like
Speaker 2: it was like way we'd like almost call each other
Speaker 2: out on like brilliant, you know, we were just very
Speaker 2: aware of, Oh, look at us. We're twelve, and we're
Speaker 2: look at us like prancing across the street, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. Like we were constantly you know, stepping
Speaker 2: back and whatever. But well, I wanted to respond. I
Speaker 2: was wildly writing down the word mirror, scary, mirror possessed.
Speaker 2: So a couple of things. One, there's something I've realized recently.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out if it's mirror or if
Speaker 2: it's via a camera on the phone or something. There's
Speaker 2: something where if you accidentally get a delay, what are
Speaker 2: you reading.
Speaker 1: I'm not kidding nothing. I'm truly complex.
Speaker 2: I decided for dramatic effact to just say it plainly,
Speaker 2: let me know.
Speaker 1: I would admit if I were like, I actually love it.
Speaker 2: Okay. No, No, this is what's fascinating, Okay, because there's
Speaker 2: something in your posture where it almost looks like your
Speaker 2: right hand is resting on a mouse.
Speaker 1: My right hand was resting like then.
Speaker 2: My family table, on the edge of the table. No,
Speaker 2: this is a constant issue of I'm like picturing in
Speaker 2: my mind, I'm imagining a Gmail g chat, a little
Speaker 2: place you and me aren't afraid to inhabit even though
Speaker 2: it's not hip anymore.
Speaker 1: And it's not two thousand and eight.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, but who was g chatting mere weeks ago?
Speaker 2: You and me?
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 2: Actually, that's the point I'm trying to make, is that
Speaker 2: we very briefly. You're listen to you, You're ashamed, You're
Speaker 2: I just I was trying to say.
Speaker 1: The way the technology expires so quickly is always interesting
Speaker 1: to me, and that g chat is just gone.
Speaker 2: And so that's why I know, No, that's what's so
Speaker 2: thrill because somehow you were like are you here or something?
Speaker 2: You were almost like this old town like it was
Speaker 2: that kind of vibe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw you was available on g chat, and
Speaker 1: I was like, how utterly kinky.
Speaker 2: It wasn't even on purpose, But I love chatting in
Speaker 2: the corner of g chat, Like there's something like those conversations,
Speaker 2: you know, in the absence of real space. Real space
Speaker 2: is to inhabit any more. All we have is windows, right,
Speaker 2: and so it's sort of like, what does it feel
Speaker 2: like to be inside? I've always felt like dming in
Speaker 2: Twitter doesn't feel like a safe mode of communication because
Speaker 2: what it feels like to me is there's this huge, massive,
Speaker 2: public kind of place, and then there's a small blue curtain, okay,
Speaker 2: dark Twitter blue curtain, terrifying, and you slip behind that
Speaker 2: curtain to chat with someone. At any second it could
Speaker 2: be exposed to the entirety of the world. That's how
Speaker 2: it feels to me.
Speaker 1: I'm always afraid I'm gonna tweet like a photo of
Speaker 1: my vagina. Yeah, yeah, Like somehow it does feel like
Speaker 1: some desperately personal thought or criticism of a public figure
Speaker 1: that you're dming is gonna slip into the youth.
Speaker 2: Cousin Rachel would do this thing. That's like I think
Speaker 2: I forget what she called it, you know, twitter rouletta.
Speaker 2: It wasn't that, but it was it was something like that.
Speaker 2: It was like it was like she would type in
Speaker 2: like a crazy like tweet or something okay, and just
Speaker 2: like hold it up like almost like that there's nothing
Speaker 2: between you know, right, this tweet going out and extent
Speaker 2: like just to terrify you like to go on the edge. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's it's really scary. It's a dangerous game. But wait,
Speaker 2: g chat feels pretty safe to me and but cozy
Speaker 2: for some reason.
Speaker 1: It's that funny there. There's nothing tactle about the internet.
Speaker 1: We can't actually feel it, and yet somehow that still
Speaker 1: becomes translated where Google chat it feels safer, you know,
Speaker 1: it feels more intimate.
Speaker 2: Completely. Well, here's a huge question. Okay, that that no
Speaker 2: one's amused by but me.
Speaker 1: Ooh, someone's at my door, like mister post Is it
Speaker 1: the milkman or the postman?
Speaker 2: Either way, it's a man.
Speaker 1: The man. Wait, sorry, what was he just saying?
Speaker 2: Because I had something for us?
Speaker 1: You were saying g chat.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, here's a big question. Okay, no one's interested
Speaker 2: but me, but I think you will be in a
Speaker 2: certain sub section of our listener. What do you imagine
Speaker 2: the back of a web browser window to look like?
Speaker 1: Ooh uh a box?
Speaker 2: Okay, so like web browsers right, like you know you
Speaker 2: have multiple windows open. Let's just say, right, has the
Speaker 2: mailman left? I see fear in your eye?
Speaker 1: Fear in my eyes?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't want an air it seeing, you know,
Speaker 2: with your recording equipment. Again, so self conscious about being
Speaker 2: a terrestrial radio broadcaster, can't believe so every window right
Speaker 2: is you know, we can move windows so in front
Speaker 2: of each other, in the back of each other, so
Speaker 2: we have a sense of them in space, right, Like
Speaker 2: we have a sense of them behind in front. Whenever
Speaker 2: go behind a web browser in your mind, what does
Speaker 2: it look like? To me? It looks like, no, it
Speaker 2: doesn't exist anywhere, because it's a two dimensional thing of pixels. Right.
Speaker 2: There's an implied to me. The assumption is that, so
Speaker 2: you know, the top of a browser or the zoom
Speaker 2: window or anything is sort of like silvery gray, right,
Speaker 2: So I just imagine it's kind of like, you know,
Speaker 2: a plain silvery gray back there, like it's just on
Speaker 2: the back and maybe a little serial number in the center. Ka,
Speaker 2: do you imagine anything.
Speaker 1: Or make sure like the back of a box, like
Speaker 1: if you were just appear into an empty box. Like
Speaker 1: what we're seeing is kind of this projection on the
Speaker 1: front of the box, not brown. I picture a navy.
Speaker 2: And you give it dimension. It's not like just a
Speaker 2: I give it how thick? How thick is a window?
Speaker 1: I actually think it goes pretty far back. I think
Speaker 1: like the back of the of the browser window is
Speaker 1: like a hallway. To me, it's like peering down a hallway.
Speaker 2: This is big fucking news. And this is why I
Speaker 2: congratulate myself for posing this question.
Speaker 1: I love that question.
Speaker 2: Okay, wait, so like let's just say, okay, you open
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I can't even imagine.
Speaker 1: The architecture of the Internet is something that undiscussed, Yeah, undiscussed.
Speaker 1: And yet it's where we spend all our time.
Speaker 2: And has the use of words like web, the metaphors
Speaker 2: right that this is a question of language, metaphor and
Speaker 2: fuko okay, okay, it is you know, the world Wide Web. Okay.
Speaker 2: The web has a kind of like any direction, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: you hit a link and you shot off somewhere. Is
Speaker 2: there an organization?
Speaker 1: Is it?
Speaker 2: So when you say a wholeway behind a Gmail window,
Speaker 2: what is there.
Speaker 1: In the hallway? Like I think a file cabinet, like
Speaker 1: you know, like a file cabin like the you open
Speaker 1: it up and it's like all that empty space.
Speaker 2: It's empty behind it. It's not filled with your other
Speaker 2: browser windows in your mind.
Speaker 1: No, it's empty, every single one.
Speaker 2: This is fascinating every well, the back of a box,
Speaker 2: right okay, okay.
Speaker 1: Like the I think a file cabinet is almost good,
Speaker 1: Like you're pulling out and file there's the screen, but
Speaker 1: then you look behind it and it's.
Speaker 2: Just and then let's just say you decide to open
Speaker 2: another window. Is that a new file? Yeah, like that's
Speaker 2: a new thing, because I feel like I experience it
Speaker 2: pretty much as like a pretty flat piece of paper.
Speaker 2: But I give it the the tactile quality that they
Speaker 2: give us on the edges of the thing. I guess
Speaker 2: it's like almost like I see the browser window like
Speaker 2: a little flat screen TV. I'm not proud, Okay, Like
Speaker 2: I've thought, how could my relationship to the Internet change
Speaker 2: if I chose to imagine that on the back side
Speaker 2: of every browser window was a phleopard, a furry back
Speaker 2: because I do. Here's what's hard about coming to work,
Speaker 2: so to speak, even when it's you know, from your
Speaker 2: own bed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, here's what out like.
Speaker 2: Cold laptop in the mornings.
Speaker 1: You mean, just the chill of a cold metal of
Speaker 1: a laptop. I once saw a lizard lounging on my laptop,
Speaker 1: and in the dead of summer, going into my bedroom,
Speaker 1: my laptop is next to my bed. There was a lizard, wow,
Speaker 1: lounging on It was actually exquisite. It's like, that's my
Speaker 1: my dream of Los Angeles as a kind of you know,
Speaker 1: airplanes and helicopters and lizards and palm trees and lipstick
Speaker 1: and an abandoned high hill on the Cornna sunset and
Speaker 1: vine you know my kind of like that's like for me,
Speaker 1: the romance of la is like a city in the
Speaker 1: desert where a lizard comes into your house. Yes, and
Speaker 1: it's just like seeking comfort.
Speaker 2: How big was it?
Speaker 1: Was it like a little like it was very adorable.
Speaker 1: I mean it must have been five inches tail included tail.
Speaker 1: Well no, let's say, well, it's.
Speaker 2: Always a question, you know, is the or not? Because
Speaker 2: when you if you were to stand up, you know.
Speaker 1: Do you ever think about if we had tails? Yes,
Speaker 1: like proper.
Speaker 2: Tails, like not a horse's tail, which is a horse's tail?
Speaker 2: And I apologize to my rich it's hair from the start.
Speaker 2: There's no nub there. It's not five inches of a
Speaker 2: hard tail covered in hair, right, because you get up
Speaker 2: some animals like that's some can question for goes longer
Speaker 2: than the than the vertebrates.
Speaker 1: By the way, can you believe a horse's tail? No,
Speaker 1: the main is shocking, like like the sexuality of horses,
Speaker 1: right is something we all know about and that horses
Speaker 1: are hot and like and all of that.
Speaker 2: Well, they also have those butt plugs that have the
Speaker 2: horses like you can you can wear a horse's tail,
Speaker 2: but it is.
Speaker 1: Like the just dramatic sexuality of the horse. It's so
Speaker 1: over the top o the what is it?
Speaker 2: Is it the legs?
Speaker 1: For me, it's the ass and the tail.
Speaker 2: Well, I think the fact that I think, I think.
Speaker 1: It's the human ass.
Speaker 2: But the tail of folks. Okay, well, this is like
Speaker 2: the problem with like is it a ring of tans?
Speaker 2: One of the ones with those really like red like
Speaker 2: red bulbous a is okay, they're like there their butts
Speaker 2: like look like pain. Like their butts look so much
Speaker 2: like pain that you gasp at them. And I actually think
Speaker 2: this is one of the unfortunate reasons that sometimes people
Speaker 2: will gasp at, you know, a perceived deformity or something
Speaker 2: or or you know, injury or something. Right, So if
Speaker 2: someone has a crazy burn on their face or scars,
Speaker 2: maybe you know, would be rude to gasp in horror
Speaker 2: and clutch your own body, right, But I wonder if
Speaker 2: it comes from like if an injury or a scarring
Speaker 2: reveals the way that it the.
Speaker 1: Imagined pain went down, the imagined pain.
Speaker 2: It's like, I mean, it's that classic thing where it's
Speaker 2: like people think that the person's scar still hurts or something,
Speaker 2: you know, they touch them gently or like people like right,
Speaker 2: and it's like, my scars are scars, like I feel nothing.
Speaker 2: You know, please don't gas as if in generously and
Speaker 2: your your empathy for the pain this witnessed. But I wonder,
Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm trying to do. Cut slack.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to cut slack for the room.
Speaker 1: I'm actually horrified that I got a scar on my
Speaker 1: knee this summer lifting myself out of a swimming pool.
Speaker 1: Scraped what I thought was a harmless scrape. Let's see,
Speaker 1: we're clocking in on February. This was in July. Kate, Kate,
Speaker 1: I scar my knee, Vitamin E oil my ass, and
Speaker 1: now I have a permanent scar in the center.
Speaker 2: Vitamin was the oil, as in they.
Speaker 1: Say, you know vitamin oil will take a scar away. Yes,
Speaker 1: actually I don't think. I think I dabbed it on once.
Speaker 2: Vitamin e ass. I thought you said I had a
Speaker 2: scar here in a vitamin em but okay, and I
Speaker 2: wanted to know.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, and I said what I'm so, I mean,
Speaker 1: I have this scar now in the center of my knee.
Speaker 2: I want to talk about scars, okay, but I also
Speaker 2: want to continue about mirrors. When we get back, I'm
Speaker 2: going to tell you about mirrors, and I'm going to
Speaker 2: tell you about the scar on my hand that's inexplicably
Speaker 2: there from the most tiny of injuries. And I'll tell
Speaker 2: you how it happened when we get back. Welcome back, people.
Speaker 2: I have a scar on the top of my hand. Okay,
Speaker 2: it's subtle, but it's there, you know.
Speaker 1: And oh my god, sorry, I keep going. You're just
Speaker 1: reminding me about a scar. Story. Continue, just keep going,
Speaker 1: keep going.
Speaker 2: So there's a rubber band on your wrist and you
Speaker 2: go to drag it off to use it with like
Speaker 2: your the middle finger of your other hand, the nail
Speaker 2: of my own finger lightly scrape the top of my hand.
Speaker 2: I guess I didn't tend to it or spf it
Speaker 2: or nothing of blood, no blood, nothing, the tiniest scrape
Speaker 2: you ever saw in your life. And now it's a
Speaker 2: full scar. My other hand scars are famously toaster burns
Speaker 2: from me trying to reach into the microwave and paw
Speaker 2: a tune in out with the pads of my fingers.
Speaker 2: I drop it down into the cheese and I pull.
Speaker 2: I pull the tunemel and the tray ow via the
Speaker 2: tunamel toaster oven. I'm here and then sometimes my excitement
Speaker 2: the top of my knuckle goes into the toast.
Speaker 1: I'm really sorry. I just tune the melt toaster oven.
Speaker 1: What I feel like, a toaster oven is such a
Speaker 1: fantasy of like like ninety six yeah, but to me
Speaker 1: like ninety four the dream, I guess, my childhood dream
Speaker 1: of like the normal family would be like a Ford
Speaker 1: Explorer and a toaster oven. And I feel like now,
Speaker 1: actually toaster o. I'm suddenly shocked by the hygiene of
Speaker 1: like a toaster. Just those open valves at the top
Speaker 1: of a toaster is just open for all hell to
Speaker 1: break loose and enter the toaster.
Speaker 2: Wait, there's no open oh to enter.
Speaker 1: The top of the toaster is a free for all,
Speaker 1: to let in in anything, or to let out but
Speaker 1: in anything, or let out but Kate.
Speaker 2: Then it's burnt at three hundred and fifty degrees So
Speaker 2: who cares?
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I'm referring specifically to a trauma.
Speaker 2: What's floating in Well, I'll tell.
Speaker 1: You what's floating in Hune. I have never had magically,
Speaker 1: no mye no cockroaches, no vermin in this home. I
Speaker 1: recently put a piece of toast in my toaster. This
Speaker 1: was shocking. It was the English muffin terrified, we'll get ready,
Speaker 1: I toasted I had, I forgot about it, and then
Speaker 1: like maybe forty minutes later, I was like, oh, fuck
Speaker 1: that toast, and I was like, I'll just like just
Speaker 1: find a way to eat it. I reached it and I
Speaker 1: grabbed the toast. There is a live cockroach pulsating on
Speaker 1: the toast. I screamed to the high heavens. I the
Speaker 1: cockroach disappeared almost instantly. I'll just flash disappeared or let
Speaker 1: truly was so fast it just what do you mean
Speaker 1: it disappeared vanished? I was watching it. It absolutely vanished.
Speaker 2: It ran, it ran or advanced? No, no, no, What
Speaker 2: I mean is did you see its exit? No? Or
Speaker 2: did you suddenly see the fact that it was gone?
Speaker 1: It was just kind of gone, like like it was
Speaker 1: wiggling wildly. I screamed. I tried to I grab like
Speaker 1: a broom and I was like kind of hitting around
Speaker 1: the toaster to try to see if I could like
Speaker 1: smash it. And by all accounts, it vanished.
Speaker 2: By all accounts, yours.
Speaker 1: That's okay, okay, this is boring, but no it isn't.
Speaker 2: We keep digging ding. I love to every second of it,
Speaker 2: and we dig in. See you run, you run from
Speaker 2: the story. But I think the story itself.
Speaker 1: Has not a dig through, like I constantly run.
Speaker 2: Is it burning alive in there?
Speaker 1: We'll never know. But I almost threw away the toaster
Speaker 1: out of sheer fear. I almost threw away the entire
Speaker 1: toaster because I can't live with that toaster anymore. Instead, I,
Speaker 1: you know, took out the toast tray got rid of.
Speaker 1: I was like, well, any like legs or arms, or
Speaker 1: eyeballs or any remnants are now gone. You could throw
Speaker 1: away a perfectly good toaster. Not to step too far.
Speaker 1: I'd rather just live in filth. Yeah, yeah, and so.
Speaker 1: But the toaster oven promises that sealed environment.
Speaker 2: Which it does not provide. You're saying, on top of.
Speaker 1: The toaster is just an open a bird could fly?
Speaker 2: Why do I feel like my toasters have absolutely no?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I've realized what's happening here. It's a
Speaker 2: crisis of something else. No, you're saying, toaster oven, are
Speaker 2: you not?
Speaker 1: So I'm trying a toaster.
Speaker 2: You're referring to a goddamn fucking too slicer cartoon.
Speaker 1: Too slicer, too slicer.
Speaker 2: That's not a toaster oven.
Speaker 1: I know I'm saying that the toaster is exposed, and
Speaker 1: I want to sure.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I thought you said toaster oven this whole time.
Speaker 1: No, I've never owned I was not raised with a
Speaker 1: toaster oven. I've never owned one. Were you raised with
Speaker 1: a toaster oven?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Were you raised with a dishwasher?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: This is I was raised with a dishwasher that was
Speaker 1: and I'm not exaggerating, never used food washed.
Speaker 2: My dad.
Speaker 1: That was his you know, domestic labor, so to speak,
Speaker 1: was the dishes, so much so that he refused to
Speaker 1: use the dishwasher.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: So I was raised with a deep fear of the
Speaker 1: dishwasher or like not knowing how to do it, And
Speaker 1: even now as an adult, I really am still afraid.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, could this be real. I've never I've
Speaker 1: never filled a dishwasher alone. I've never like been I've
Speaker 1: never taken the initiative to fill it up because I
Speaker 1: feel so nervous about the rules and how to stack them.
Speaker 1: I've helped, I've handed dishes to someone else here you
Speaker 1: put them in. But I've never taken upon myself to
Speaker 1: confidently load the dishwasher.
Speaker 2: Like having machinery.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels very And there's something I think because
Speaker 1: I'm an only child. There were only three of us,
Speaker 1: so there weren't like there weren't that many dishes. But
Speaker 1: something about the dishwasher to me also is like the
Speaker 1: dream of Christmas morning with like children running around and
Speaker 1: like Grandma's here, you.
Speaker 2: Know, and placing dishes in the dishwasher.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and being like, oh my god, wasn't lunch. It's
Speaker 1: like and oh you know.
Speaker 2: Oh god about living in that family, Oh oh god,
Speaker 2: wasn't lunch devastating? Remember, it's like your dream wasn't lunch.
Speaker 2: I feel like my family is not big on lunch
Speaker 2: in general, Like there's just sort of because everyone's sort
Speaker 2: of eating at different times throughout the you know, mornings
Speaker 2: slash afternoon. It's all an approach to dinner. For us. Generally,
Speaker 2: it's dinner. What do you need? Lunch? Lunch disappear.
Speaker 1: It's all about dinner. It's always been about dinner.
Speaker 2: Well, it's like people talk about about having lunch with friends,
Speaker 2: want to meet for lunch. I mean a big lunch
Speaker 2: to give me dinner or give me death, because lunch
Speaker 2: is hell.
Speaker 1: See, I actually prefer huge lunch lighter dinner.
Speaker 2: Well, that's the classic eat like a what do they say,
Speaker 2: a king in the morning, a popper in the evening, Oh.
Speaker 1: My god, a king king in the morning, popper in
Speaker 1: the in the afternoon, and.
Speaker 2: Something like that, an apple if you're lucky, right, and
Speaker 2: that you sneak out and you lick up the scraps
Speaker 2: of the king's meal.
Speaker 1: Right, you have like the tour on the edge of
Speaker 1: the torn bag at that your lever left on the table.
Speaker 2: Me and my cousin. And sometimes, you know, maybe these
Speaker 2: are ancestral things. We've always talked about the pleasure of
Speaker 2: kind of eating something that's a little bit unpleasant, like
Speaker 2: a stale piece of bread or stale crackers crackers, and
Speaker 2: eating it as if we are you know. Sometimes I
Speaker 2: mean for us, it's a lot of times Jewish sort
Speaker 2: of Nazi Germany kind of fantasies. Okay, we're in it,
Speaker 2: We're let's eat this like we're in a we're in
Speaker 2: a concentration camp and we found the attle bit of
Speaker 2: bread and we snuck behind a window, and then and
Speaker 2: then we sit there and then we eat what we're eating.
Speaker 2: With that experience, I guess tell me if I'm wrong,
Speaker 2: But the Holocaust as psychological play cannot be understated in
Speaker 2: my home growing up, and I know this is also
Speaker 2: true of my cousin.
Speaker 1: I want you to tell your Holocaust thing I think
Speaker 1: about all the time, which is one of the funniest
Speaker 1: In your ankle, but your ankle, my ankle, Wait, the
Speaker 1: wind hitting your ankle, Please tell.
Speaker 2: Right, So I I, you know, jump to well, well,
Speaker 2: two things, okay, Well, okay, I'll get to the ankle. Okay,
Speaker 2: But I just want to like say the thing I
Speaker 2: was going to say first, which is so like the
Speaker 2: classic is my mother would motivate her yourself to clean
Speaker 2: up the kitchen speaking of dishes, okay. She would go
Speaker 2: like almost nightly, okay. It was like, I'm going to
Speaker 2: pretend that there's ten minutes until the Nazis get here, okay,
Speaker 2: and I have to clean the kitchen before the Nazis
Speaker 2: get here. I'm gonna look at the clock. It's six
Speaker 2: o three, so we'll say six thirteen. If the kitchen's
Speaker 2: not clothes, we're all getting hold off by Nazis, okay.
Speaker 1: Pretending the Nazis are coming.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the weird thing about it is that it
Speaker 2: was never clear. It was just the Nazis are coming
Speaker 2: in thirteen minutes, that's how long I or ten minutes,
Speaker 2: that's how long we have to clean, okay, but it
Speaker 2: was never totally clear like if it's not clean, are
Speaker 2: they going to take us away? I think that was
Speaker 2: the implication, right right, right, So that was it's like,
Speaker 2: it's like Nazis is the.
Speaker 1: I thought it was like, how embarrassing the Nazis coming
Speaker 1: into your house and it's a mess?
Speaker 2: Oh right, like they're there, like you're there to host
Speaker 2: them while whatever.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so there was that.
Speaker 2: I mean also my mother, you know, famously this is
Speaker 2: always the image to describe, but it's like it's a
Speaker 2: hot July day and I want to go to the
Speaker 2: pool or something like that whenever I'm excited. Just a jewel, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I know. And it's because what I meant, Okay, what
Speaker 2: I was tried and imply and I didn't know what
Speaker 2: time to explain, was this kind of thing I've heard,
Speaker 2: like the Southern literary tradition of like the July grass
Speaker 2: or whatever. Okay. I once heard a guy in a
Speaker 2: poetry writing workshop like be like the July grass okay,
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh my god. Anyway, a July day,
Speaker 2: A July day okay, and you know the I want
Speaker 2: to go to the pool whatever. And I come down
Speaker 2: and my mother is in the den with the with
Speaker 2: the blinds fully drawn in darkness, you know, watching Shindler's
Speaker 2: List and turns to me says, and when I watch
Speaker 2: a little shin la okay, okay, So like watching Shindler
Speaker 2: for her, as she says, as she calls it a
Speaker 2: little shiner, like, let's get cozy and watch a little Shindler.
Speaker 2: Is that's how she gets cozy. And I have inherited this.
Speaker 2: It's the same. I mean. She also she watches Jaws. Well,
Speaker 2: she's in the next room. She plays Jaws. Jaws is
Speaker 2: her comfort.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: She like knows every word's Jaws, and she hears Jaws
Speaker 2: playing in the next room while she's like doing dishes
Speaker 2: or something. So like Shindler, it's that thing where there's
Speaker 2: there's there's historical horrors can be a comfort because they're
Speaker 2: in the past. It already happened, right, It's like.
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's kind of that's interesting.
Speaker 2: So you were saying, I'm so sorry. I insisted on saying, well,
Speaker 2: setting the table so to speak, for the Holocaust stuff,
Speaker 2: which is just I always jump there. And then there'd
Speaker 2: be these there's these moments in my life that are
Speaker 2: completely moments of luxury and comfort. Okay, where I'm clutching,
Speaker 2: you know, a Starbucks on the streets of New York, Okay,
Speaker 2: and I accidentally my pants. There's a space between where
Speaker 2: my pants end and my shoes begin, and I feel
Speaker 2: a little cold air and you know, I've been rudely
Speaker 2: awoken at eleven am or something like that throng the
Speaker 2: streets in New York, and a cold breeze is my ankle,
Speaker 2: and I find myself thinking, this is what the Holocaust
Speaker 2: must have felt like.
Speaker 1: The ice hitting your ankle. Yeah, And those little moments
Speaker 1: of well, the.
Speaker 2: Could I It's like a moment of minor discomfort becomes
Speaker 2: a way of them saying, you know, how.
Speaker 1: Would I empathy?
Speaker 2: I mean, this is part of why I like like
Speaker 2: watching these, like watching old war movies. I really enjoy
Speaker 2: asking myself how i'd fare in war, like like if
Speaker 2: we were drafted in World War Two as men.
Speaker 1: Quite well people with high anxiety. I'm just not to interrupt,
Speaker 1: but I've been told, because I have high anxiety OCD tendencies,
Speaker 1: that when actual stress is presented, like actual moments of like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is an emergency, this is chaos, this is oftentimes
Speaker 1: people with the anxiety actually are really able to manage
Speaker 1: just moments absolutely.
Speaker 2: And that's and I'm sure I've brought this up on
Speaker 2: poog and I know I talk about it in my
Speaker 2: depression book, but my grandfather, chaplain in the war, had
Speaker 2: suffered depression in the war. Never felt better.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I felt better of that story.
Speaker 2: There was finally reprieve did you go to the.
Speaker 1: Because I went to the Holocaust Museum in the eighth grade,
Speaker 1: and I what I remember the most was it became
Speaker 1: a competition for who could cry the hardest or grieve
Speaker 1: I adore hardest at the museum. I was I was
Speaker 1: going to the Hall Coustmuseum. I went to an all
Speaker 1: girls school. All of the girls their knees buckling, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of being like like because I also I went
Speaker 1: to school with like relative any of them probablyish. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So like my best friend I had friends whose relatives
Speaker 1: did perish or were survived.
Speaker 2: Do you have any parents and so?
Speaker 1: And some of them I had met.
Speaker 2: Were not really because they were in Spain.
Speaker 1: No, sadly no.
Speaker 2: You see, I feel right now this thing tickling in
Speaker 2: my stomach, which is a desperation to interrupt to let
Speaker 2: you know that I have direct relations who perished. Oh,
Speaker 2: I know that you do, but I'm just acknowledging the
Speaker 2: like the panic, like the how quickly can I get
Speaker 2: to it? Like the proximity to trauma or or pain
Speaker 2: as a legitimizing.
Speaker 1: Of course, of course, well I had to die, you
Speaker 1: know that, that kind of that's major. I once had
Speaker 1: a therapist directly asked me after like I'd been seeing
Speaker 1: him for a while. He was like, are you Jewish?
Speaker 1: And I was like yeah, And he was like, you know,
Speaker 1: because you're processing a lot of ancestral ancestral trauma. And
Speaker 1: he's like, did you have relatives especially let me g.
Speaker 2: Did you lie and say yes? Did you lie and
Speaker 2: say yes? No?
Speaker 1: But I was like I was like no. He's like, oh,
Speaker 1: he was like, but you know you still I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, my my father was born in the early
Speaker 1: forties and his parents took him to Docou hilarious, like
Speaker 1: to be like this would have been you. And my
Speaker 1: dad was definitely raised with a lot of that, you know.
Speaker 1: They named him Tony to be like, say you're Italian,
Speaker 1: like there was a lot of fear and my dad's
Speaker 1: a ju named Tony right right, No, I was I
Speaker 1: gonna say, you named Tony sounds like a fabulous Cassavetti's
Speaker 1: film hold on wait wait there's something like, oh wait,
Speaker 1: but I was saying about the school yeah, and all
Speaker 1: the girls.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, okay, well this is like my favorite topic
Speaker 2: of conversation.
Speaker 1: I couldn't cry, and I was like, come on, cry,
Speaker 1: cry cry, you know, and and I wasn't able when
Speaker 1: I was devasted.
Speaker 2: No, this is hysterical. Okay. I actually didn't go with
Speaker 2: the school. It was maybe did. I don't know. I
Speaker 2: can't remember, but I remember first going with my parents
Speaker 2: and my dad like says this thing to me now,
Speaker 2: like he's like, I remember you were really like I
Speaker 2: guess this is like I was eleven or something and
Speaker 2: my dad says it apparently I was like, I was like,
Speaker 2: but the Nazis got it in the end, right, Like
Speaker 2: I was like they prosecuted them or whatever. Right, I
Speaker 2: was really concerned about like whether the Nazis got it
Speaker 2: in the end, and then like yeah, I also think
Speaker 2: like what for you was like the hot referenced thing,
Speaker 2: because I have an answer, and I'm curious if it's
Speaker 2: the same. But like the thing that people would recognize
Speaker 2: if if the Holocaus Museum in DC was like a
Speaker 2: was a movie or it was a you know, art show. Okay,
Speaker 2: what's the thing everyone's talking about when they leave about
Speaker 2: you know it was really something.
Speaker 1: Let me guess the passport.
Speaker 2: Oh damn it.
Speaker 1: The shoes.
Speaker 2: The shoes, thank you? Yeah, okay, they like and then
Speaker 2: you gotta imagine the person who all right, we gotta
Speaker 2: explain it, right we got Well, well, well I'm.
Speaker 1: Gonna say when I saw the shoes, that's when it hit.
Speaker 2: That's when it hit. And just for anyone who wasn't
Speaker 2: brought to our nation's capital to see this, there is
Speaker 2: a you know, massive pile of shoes.
Speaker 1: Okay, brutal that children's shoes.
Speaker 2: Huge, huge hues. To give a sense of the scale
Speaker 2: of the death right is look they had, you know,
Speaker 2: look at all these Look at this huge pile of
Speaker 2: jewelry that they took off the bodies before burning them. Whatever.
Speaker 1: Look at these shoes and.
Speaker 2: You know it was the way it was making the intangible,
Speaker 2: making the infinite, making huge numbers, you know, visceral, right,
Speaker 2: And like I just like imagine, imagine knowing the person
Speaker 2: whose idea it was to do the pile of shoes.
Speaker 1: Just knowing the person one knowing them.
Speaker 2: And then imagine how hard it is not to bring
Speaker 2: that up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or you're the person who came up with it
Speaker 1: and you're like doing like the inaugural tour. You know
Speaker 1: it took the ribbons being cut and you're like that
Speaker 1: was me, Like like look at you.
Speaker 2: Know, because it's creative insight. Right. Yeah, here's a question
Speaker 2: how brilliant, how brilliant a piece of work should a
Speaker 2: monument to a tragedy be?
Speaker 1: Interesting?
Speaker 2: Question gets in the way hearting when it gets again,
Speaker 2: you know, it's a problem, right, Like you might brilliate
Speaker 2: your criticisms of the Freedom Tower, Okay, Chris, Chris hysterically,
Speaker 2: I just say this really quick, Chris hysterically. That's like
Speaker 2: a bit about how stupid it is that they like
Speaker 2: made the Freedom Tower seventeen Fuck, when did we achieve
Speaker 2: our independence from Britain seventeen seventy six. Okay, but he's like,
Speaker 2: he's like, this is due because that's like a number
Speaker 2: that's only about when we like separated from the British.
Speaker 2: So it's like, E's like, take that. I'll kind of
Speaker 2: remember seventeen seventy six when we kicked your ass?
Speaker 1: Wait, is that on the Freedom Tower?
Speaker 2: Freedom Dower was made to be seventeen one thousand, seven
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty six feet high.
Speaker 1: Oh my god's so irrelevant your ass. Well, the world of.
Speaker 2: The Freedom Tower, let's talk about it.
Speaker 1: I don't think watch of it, honey. And first of all,
Speaker 1: well did you go Because I was I was in
Speaker 1: I was a freshman sophomore. I would go down at night.
Speaker 1: I was living in Chinatown, and I would take long
Speaker 1: walks and go down to the holes. I would go
Speaker 1: down to ground zero, and at that point it was
Speaker 1: just still like gutted.
Speaker 2: Did you feel alone or did you feel the camera
Speaker 2: in the upper left corner of the room while you
Speaker 2: were mourning and walking?
Speaker 1: Because I was never alone, of course, I was always
Speaker 1: with a friend. No, but but there was the curtain,
Speaker 1: or there was there was a fence around it, right
Speaker 1: that there was blocked, but there would there would be
Speaker 1: holes in the fence and I would peer through the
Speaker 1: hole in the fence. But it was all just narrated
Speaker 1: by Katie Kuric, Like in my mind, it was all
Speaker 1: just you know, it was of course televised. That's a
Speaker 1: pretty tasteful monument.
Speaker 2: Right. They didn't build over essentially, right, They retained the
Speaker 2: absence meaningfully and made it a leave.
Speaker 1: The wound open, as Christeva.
Speaker 2: Would say, yes, and this is nice. The second time
Speaker 2: Christeva has come up, resist healing, come up and I
Speaker 2: love it. And then they built the tower, right, and
Speaker 2: so it's like, now, what do you think is the
Speaker 2: tower just like next to the hole?
Speaker 1: Must be right, yeah, turn right at the holes. You
Speaker 1: can't miss it.
Speaker 2: I mean I do think like filling it with water
Speaker 2: is about as good as you can get. Fill filling
Speaker 2: it with like a fountain.
Speaker 1: They're always like water, we have water. Water is always
Speaker 1: the fallback?
Speaker 2: Water is is is tragedies only? Answer?
Speaker 1: Like, let's just water.
Speaker 2: They're like fountains, fountain time. I mean, you must have
Speaker 2: taken a trip to the Vietnam Memorial. It's like in
Speaker 2: one of your trips. Sure, I feel like the Vietnam
Speaker 2: Memorial was very celebrated for its understated quality or whatever.
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, of course, but yeah, like what like devn like,
Speaker 1: how do you not like?
Speaker 2: Okay, it's easy to be uninspired by whatever the Freedom Tower,
Speaker 2: But if it were a deeply subversive piece of work,
Speaker 2: I've been kind of fucked up, you know what I mean? No, No,
Speaker 2: of course, that's what's funny to me. Wait, so is
Speaker 2: all the.
Speaker 1: Business that happened in the World Trade Center now it's
Speaker 1: all just condensed into the Freedom Tower? Like all the like?
Speaker 1: Is all the business? Are the businesses still in there?
Speaker 2: Well, some chose to move.
Speaker 1: Were they like? But some of the businesses.
Speaker 2: Are in the Actually, every single business that had existed
Speaker 2: in the towers was forced into the Freedom Tower. It
Speaker 2: was a tax break, yes, but they were told they
Speaker 2: had no other option. No, that's that's a joke, all right.
Speaker 1: I actually am unaware of the businesses that went on.
Speaker 1: Were they they were beyond government? Like there were also
Speaker 1: people that were just like you had, like companies.
Speaker 2: I don't even think there was any government. It's financial.
Speaker 1: It was commerce. It was commerce and finance.
Speaker 2: World Trade Center Center, Right, No, no, trade is the
Speaker 2: one I was trying to hit, not center trade, trade
Speaker 2: as in as in you were like right right the world.
Speaker 1: I constantly feel that I focus on the wrong word
Speaker 1: the seer I placed. Really, I think this is a
Speaker 1: constant issue for me, is as signing value to the
Speaker 1: wrong word in the sentence. And it's something what I
Speaker 1: think I retained from the embarrassment I a public speaker,
Speaker 1: freeze up, terrified in a classroom setting, of reading passages
Speaker 1: out of a book, of reading my own work right,
Speaker 1: utter horror, and for many years also fear of speaking
Speaker 1: up to present an idea. I was so so quiet,
Speaker 1: and I take a look at her nah, and I
Speaker 1: remember a couple of times I would read the sentence
Speaker 1: and I then would be aware and torture myself for
Speaker 1: fourteen years after the fact that I had placed the
Speaker 1: emphasis on the wrong word.
Speaker 2: Do you remember that thing? This was such a hack thing,
Speaker 2: a hack teacher reference, sort of placing the emphasis on
Speaker 2: the wrong slabble hacked sucks. Yeah, heard it?
Speaker 1: That's yeah, you've never heard that.
Speaker 2: You've never heard I've heard it?
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2: Well I know John Early loves this is he loves
Speaker 2: this like, this is not syncopatient. This is syncopatient syncpation.
Speaker 2: You never heard John really say this? No, Oh my god.
Speaker 2: I would think it was like maybe in the first
Speaker 2: ten minute of meaning, like this would be something you discussed.
Speaker 2: It's like, no, I can't do the wrong version. But
Speaker 2: it's like, this is sinc capatient. It's not like this
Speaker 2: is sinc of patient. It's like Chris is sink capatient.
Speaker 1: I've never heard.
Speaker 2: Wait, what are other teams? Sorry, okay, we do have
Speaker 2: to go to break. You may get a snack.
Speaker 1: Walk me through what you've eaten today after the break.
Speaker 2: I can't wait. You'd like to know what I ate today?
Speaker 2: So far? Nothing? You know me fast. I had a
Speaker 2: sleeve of saltines in the in the late night, I
Speaker 2: had a sleeve of saltines. I remembered they were there.
Speaker 1: I was going to bring up saltines earlier, proof that
Speaker 1: I am in fact psychic.
Speaker 2: Why do you enjoy them?
Speaker 1: When you were talking about eating the bread and kind
Speaker 1: of like imagining that you were in some Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh, this is this is what I believe about melburtoast.
Speaker 1: Val punis changed.
Speaker 2: Is the value of melbots that it resists being eaten, okay,
Speaker 2: and it's it's something that I long to remember. I
Speaker 2: want a food that fights back for once I'm tired
Speaker 2: of the food is just going in so easy and beseechingly. Okay,
Speaker 2: just enter my mouth. The humiliation of a pizza having
Speaker 2: a point at the end. Like me, We're a real skinny,
Speaker 2: so I can just kind of sneak in your mouth
Speaker 2: and then slowly wide and I'm like, this is pathetic.
Speaker 2: I will eat I will eat you from the crust in.
Speaker 1: Through your mouth.
Speaker 2: Melvas the violence of melva, Okay, it is it's like
Speaker 2: you chewing into it. You go, this can't be right.
Speaker 2: This can And that's why melba toast is subversive.
Speaker 1: Grape nuts similar.
Speaker 2: God, I went through a period sign.
Speaker 1: Of adulthood, or a sign of like graduating to grape nuts,
Speaker 1: like adulthood, you know, once you have a mortgage to
Speaker 1: pay to start pouring grape nuts and.
Speaker 2: Are to me heaven, the feeling that they might the
Speaker 2: way they might break my teeth.
Speaker 1: I want it now.
Speaker 2: I love it so much.
Speaker 1: Really a dangerous food.
Speaker 2: God, I kill for some grape nuts and I want
Speaker 2: them now. There was a period where I would wake
Speaker 2: up at like like six am, where I'm not supposed
Speaker 2: to get up till nine am, supposed to you know whatever. Okay,
Speaker 2: But but I would wake up starving, run downstairs, eat,
Speaker 2: eat a bowl of grape nuts in like a in
Speaker 2: a fury, and then go back to bed. And I
Speaker 2: cannot tell you how good it was. Now, I do
Speaker 2: believe that was the sugars from the previous night screaming
Speaker 2: from my belly for more, okay, which is a theory
Speaker 2: around sugar, okay, is like the bacteria or whatever your
Speaker 2: in your gut that loves and eats sugar. That's like
Speaker 2: part of why people are like, I can't not eat
Speaker 2: for three hours or whatever, okay, my stomach will hurt.
Speaker 2: And it's like, that's not your stomach yelling at you,
Speaker 2: theteria that loves sugar, screaming for more. You have to starve, okay,
Speaker 2: so hysterical the fasting in I'm yelling for it. Anyway,
Speaker 2: What have you eaten?
Speaker 1: I made well? Of course, had a cup of coffee
Speaker 1: with my steamed oat milk.
Speaker 2: I think gets tired of that oat flavor, though.
Speaker 1: No, to me, it's pure cream honey. I used to
Speaker 1: make my own nut milk like every week. And then
Speaker 1: I bought oat milk one day kind of to be like,
Speaker 1: let's have fun.
Speaker 2: Do you know if someone makes their own oat milk,
Speaker 2: don't worry, they'll tell you about it or whatever.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: How do you know someone's a vegan? Right, don't worry,
Speaker 2: it'll come up. That's what it is. Don't worry it'll
Speaker 2: come up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, but I know it was made. Don't apologize, swie,
Speaker 1: don't apologize, swie. Okay, So coffee with oat milk. And
Speaker 1: then I made unusual for me. I made a smoothie
Speaker 1: with oat milk. Frozen blueberries, almond butter.
Speaker 2: Pre frozen. They arrived from the store frozen or you
Speaker 2: frozen them.
Speaker 1: Wild organic blueberries arrive pre frozen, pre frozen. Okay. Content
Speaker 1: The nutritional content of frozen berries are often higher than
Speaker 1: the freshberry. I repeat, nutritional benefits. The nutritional density of
Speaker 1: a frozen berry or a frozen vegetable is often higher
Speaker 1: than that of a.
Speaker 2: Like sense, that's just like a baby that's killed is
Speaker 2: permanently younger.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 2: We've got a living adult. Okay, okay, okay, no, no,
Speaker 2: but what I'm saying is you freeze the very well,
Speaker 2: it has its most.
Speaker 1: Although they chopped the broccoli and then they freeze it immediately,
Speaker 1: so it retains that kind of degrading in the truck
Speaker 1: and degrading my shells the frozen and then I have
Speaker 1: this is.
Speaker 2: You about your visualizations of food nutritional degradation on trucks,
Speaker 2: specifically the belly of a boeing, belly of the.
Speaker 1: Bone jets, food transportation.
Speaker 2: And water searing and plastic I just water.
Speaker 1: Three hundred and fifty degrees in a truck making its
Speaker 1: way across the rust belt and riding at your door. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: with a with a plastic leeching into the water beyond comprehension.
Speaker 2: Plastic leeching.
Speaker 1: Leaching is one of my most I mean, I think
Speaker 1: about my career, plastic leeching and death.
Speaker 2: Wait your career, Oh no, the three things again for
Speaker 2: a big part of your.
Speaker 1: What were we just talking about, I don't remember. It's
Speaker 1: gone food breakfast? Yeah after that, whoa, I forgot to
Speaker 1: mention that I had some protein powder in my smoothie,
Speaker 1: which is not a usual thing for me because I'm
Speaker 1: afraid of the lead in these protein powers protein powders. Oh, yeah, toxicity.
Speaker 1: Don't even get me started.
Speaker 2: Well, I know, toxicity in general is an issue.
Speaker 1: But toxicity in general I fear. But yeah, a lot
Speaker 1: of the kind of store bought protein powders, they're not
Speaker 1: screened for heavy.
Speaker 2: Metals versus the foraged in the local or just.
Speaker 1: Like a very like like a protege a protein powder
Speaker 1: that might be triple screened for heavy metals. Okay, I
Speaker 1: want to triple screened protein powder. I mean, I don't drink.
Speaker 2: Smooth soft smoothie relevant barely. The smoothie has achieved obviously.
Speaker 2: And you were one of the early satirists of jama juice.
Speaker 2: Just to be clear, thank you, Okay, Okay, I really
Speaker 2: appreciate that the humiliation of of that. You know, however,
Speaker 2: a few years ago, well, I mean, I mean the
Speaker 2: first laugh, right, the first laugh about about jama juice
Speaker 2: was you think you're being healthy as ninety apples, seven
Speaker 2: hundred berries, six bananas.
Speaker 1: I mean, leave the berries out of it. But the
Speaker 1: issue is the apple density, is what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Okay, can eat the equivalent of sixty bowls of fruit? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: okay in one thing and and have just jacked yourself
Speaker 2: so high on fruit sugars. Okay, never to come to
Speaker 2: America's great failing fructose or whatever fruit doose? Sorry okay.
Speaker 2: And and mango mango. We added we got some more
Speaker 2: moisture in there with orange juice, like great, great, it's
Speaker 2: a direct direct juice that it's it was, like, you know,
Speaker 2: whatever disaster, America grew more metabolically challenged. No, no, I
Speaker 2: don't mean that as metabolically challenged. I don't mean that
Speaker 2: as a cute I'm vertically challenged thing. I actually mean
Speaker 2: the metabolic syndrome is the problem in this country. Okay,
Speaker 2: not she was that a glance at your phone? It's okay.
Speaker 1: If it was, I'm not kidding. I swear my phone
Speaker 1: is over there being plugged in, so it's your nails
Speaker 1: right now. Just not when I glanced down, I was
Speaker 1: looking at the table.
Speaker 2: That's fine, that is fine. I wanted to know because
Speaker 2: this is helping me learn, Okay, instead of going now
Speaker 2: she's done it, well she forward, now she's done it.
Speaker 1: Okay, no distractions, No, no, this is great.
Speaker 2: All right, Wait, but I was really excited about Yes,
Speaker 2: so the metabolic syndrome is what most of us suffer from. Here, Okay,
Speaker 2: in the States, I think it was Reagan and big
Speaker 2: corn and whatever in the GMOs. Basically we all got
Speaker 2: fucked okay, and we all have fucked up metabolic dynamics
Speaker 2: now that are not our fault. And doctor Robert Lustig
Speaker 2: will tell us all it's not sloth and glutton of
Speaker 2: course not. We are not, you know, having all these
Speaker 2: problems that we have due to sloth and gluttony. It
Speaker 2: is baked in into the very bread we try to
Speaker 2: try to eat. Okay, So anyway, so smoothies are a
Speaker 2: joke in that one sense. But here's why I'm gone
Speaker 2: back to smoothie a few years ago.
Speaker 1: I love using it as smoothie. I love yes smoothie.
Speaker 2: The poetics of smoothie. Okay, be yea juicing, juicing, juicing,
Speaker 2: juicing smoothie. Though, no, this is my point, right, Okay,
Speaker 2: all the all the talk is about juicing, right, Oh,
Speaker 2: don't stress the digestive system. Get the pure serum of
Speaker 2: the vegetable right into you, et cetera, et cetera. Right, However,
Speaker 2: you are missing the fiber. Fiber okay, And apparently if
Speaker 2: you use a strong blender, and which isn't this day. Honestly,
Speaker 2: you know, the others have caught up. I don't think
Speaker 2: it's all. Yeah, it was vita mixer bust for a
Speaker 2: long period time, but they're saying you can't long time.
Speaker 2: You cannot fully break part the cellular structure of the
Speaker 2: fruit with your average blender, are merely blending the vitamins.
Speaker 2: Crushes molecularly pulverizes to a point where whatever it needs
Speaker 2: to happen is happening. So it's a sort of green
Speaker 2: smoothie period that I got into, okay, where it was
Speaker 2: the better way to get my greens is pulverized, not
Speaker 2: green juice, but pulverized greens themselves. Right, So I got
Speaker 2: kind of kind of into that I'm thinking of revisiting.
Speaker 2: I actually I developed my own neighborhood smoothie. It's Smellers
Speaker 2: in New York City when I was living there. It's
Speaker 2: pronounced Smilers, but I think it's funny to mispronounce it Smillers.
Speaker 2: It's clearly one l It's obviously Smiler, okay, but I
Speaker 2: like to treat it like it was a certain neighborhood store.
Speaker 2: Let's go to Smillers anyway. I would get so new
Speaker 2: York full of bad smoothie options that are just fruit based.
Speaker 2: Hell right, I know. Okay, Hey, let me put some
Speaker 2: ice cream in it for you too, In which.
Speaker 1: Ch generation is that one of the big culprits can't remember.
Speaker 2: Well, they do so smoothies as well. But anyway, pulverizing
Speaker 2: the greens and then dropping I like to drop a
Speaker 2: few berries, a few red berries into the green smoothie
Speaker 2: sugar high anioxidae, just exactly to get some of the
Speaker 2: fruit flavor that I enjoyed to kind of. And I
Speaker 2: called that the rose Garden, Okay. I self named what
Speaker 2: I would order at s Miller's okay, and told them,
Speaker 2: and I think it finally made it under the menu.
Speaker 1: No it didn't, Jacqueline.
Speaker 2: Yes, they said, like we're getting a new menu and
Speaker 2: that one's going on, okay. And it was called the
Speaker 2: rose Garden because it was all greenery then with dabble
Speaker 2: of red.
Speaker 1: That's brilliant. I still I'm like so envious or something
Speaker 1: that you would have invented a smooth it would end
Speaker 1: up on the board.
Speaker 2: Now, to be clear, I don't recall seeing it on
Speaker 2: the board yet I recall talk of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I don't want to be a bitch,
Speaker 1: but I kind of feel like I didn't really make it.
Speaker 2: To them so furious because I don't have the details
Speaker 2: to support the feeling, and the feeling is one of
Speaker 2: absolute truth. Okay, but I guess I could be sort
Speaker 2: of shuffling the truth aside, like in order to barrel
Speaker 2: towards me explaining that I named it the rose garden
Speaker 2: because I did think there was sort of an elegance
Speaker 2: to the word rose garden lovely, even though there was
Speaker 2: the problem of obviously that could imply that there's a
Speaker 2: rose flavor. I would too, but then the people wouldn't
Speaker 2: have it.
Speaker 1: I pulled me back.
Speaker 2: Hey, I feel myself slipping. I know, I know, oh right,
Speaker 2: eating food in that way. But yes, last night, but
Speaker 2: last night I was watching the Terror name C program
Speaker 2: that I'm enjoying nightly and sort of these men the Terror. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's these men on a ship, surprise, surprise, and shows.
Speaker 2: There's nary a woman to be seen in the program.
Speaker 2: There's three okay, there's three women that occasionally appear.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's just here, just over an oil rig.
Speaker 2: What's about that? Right? That is the part of your
Speaker 2: genius okay, is that you can finish a sentence okay,
Speaker 2: because you're just you'll go for it. Just say oil
Speaker 2: rig okay, like a woman bent over an oil rig. Now,
Speaker 2: an oil rig technically is a massive structure. An oil
Speaker 2: rig I think is like the entirety of the ship
Speaker 2: or whatever.
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, or it's door one area.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like you're bend over a small barrel.
Speaker 1: And bent over some like pip.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know exactly what you're picking, of course, And
Speaker 2: it's just but it's but I but eating saltines while
Speaker 2: pretending that I'm in the Arctic m with these men,
Speaker 2: you know, and and and forcing the saltines into my mouth.
Speaker 2: It was heaven in the darkness, going one cracker after
Speaker 2: the next and putting them in and feeling them being
Speaker 2: so dry, and knowing that I could get up and
Speaker 2: get a drink of water, but instead enjoying the over
Speaker 2: dryness of it. And it's filling my mouth and almost
Speaker 2: this feeling of sawdust, sawdust, I must.
Speaker 1: I'm so thirsty harvest for winter. I've barely had water.
Speaker 1: Yesterday I would say I had a glass and half
Speaker 1: of water. Today I've had less than a glass. What
Speaker 1: am I doing thoughts.
Speaker 2: I haven't had a single sip of water today, surprised if.
Speaker 1: There was spinning. It's not. But I am so thirsty
Speaker 1: and I'm sorry to sweat my my Juilliard sweatshirt. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm really hungry, and I think i'm But you know,
Speaker 1: when you know you're gonna have a really big, amazing dinner.
Speaker 2: You have one planned.
Speaker 1: I just know I'm gonna eat, yeah, a big old
Speaker 1: and therefore what you know, No, So so I know
Speaker 1: I'm gonna order Italian feasts, So I'm like, I don't
Speaker 1: want to.
Speaker 2: You want to be as hungry as you can when
Speaker 2: you arrive at it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to really be able to enjoy that feast,
Speaker 1: but I'm hungry.
Speaker 2: You know it's huge for me and we can leave
Speaker 2: in a minute. But I just want to say this,
Speaker 2: which is, yeah, you know, eating socially is hard, okay,
Speaker 2: or be or knowing that you're supposed to get your
Speaker 2: sustenance from an event you're attending is stressful to me,
Speaker 2: particularly if it's you know, cater rikers are not that.
Speaker 2: I go to a lot of care events, but yeah,
Speaker 2: I know it's technically speak you.
Speaker 1: Can't rely on catering dear God.
Speaker 2: Dear God. Okay, they sweep through it speeds unknown whatever. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: But I've found that what works for me is to
Speaker 2: not show up at events with questionable amounts of food, starving,
Speaker 2: eat a little something at home, okay, and then when
Speaker 2: I show up at the event, my eyes are not
Speaker 2: trailing the cater waiter with a ferocious desperation that alienates
Speaker 2: those I'm supposed to be having light conversation with.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Instead, You're focus is solely on the chicken saute.
Speaker 1: It's moving quickly away from you. I mean, those events
Speaker 1: feel like such a thing of the past. Am I Am?
Speaker 1: I wrong? Now I realize because it's a year now
Speaker 1: of not eating in front of people, I think my
Speaker 1: manners have completely They've just completely dissolved. So that food
Speaker 1: in front of me, it's I think I'm smacking, it's
Speaker 1: going right in. I mean, I think I've completely lost
Speaker 1: any kind of social performance of eating.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, And what's there's a been? Oh
Speaker 2: there's bepeens for me where like there's food on my face.
Speaker 2: I know there's food on my face, Like Chris is
Speaker 2: like there's a chip on the top of your lip
Speaker 2: resting on the top of your lip, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I know, I just haven't gotten to it yet.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, I literally know, you know, I can feel
Speaker 1: food on my chin right and not my chin catches.
Speaker 2: A lot and not wipe it away immediately.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just like or sometimes I am shocked by
Speaker 1: how much food there is on my face. I turned
Speaker 1: to the mirror, I'm like, oh my god, like it's
Speaker 1: just yeah, well we should we should honestly leave because
Speaker 1: I'm so hungry now the hunger is taken hold of,
Speaker 1: starting to now gravitate toward my language skills.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I really enjoyed exploring.
Speaker 1: Uh, Judy is of the modern brutality you're on.
Speaker 2: The modern brutality is jettisoned.
Speaker 1: By the I would kill for bowl of grape nuts
Speaker 1: with whole milk.
Speaker 2: I am going to have that too. Great.
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