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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the Peanuts Cast. I'm Josh, there's

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Speaker 2: Chuck been sitting in and this is part two of

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Speaker 2: two the Deuce, as we call it sometimes, about stuff

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Speaker 2: you should know about Peanuts.

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Speaker 1: That's right. If you remember where we left off, Charlie

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Speaker 1: Brown had just murdered Snoopy and was on the run

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Speaker 1: from the law. No, of course not. We had made

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Speaker 1: up and surely no one's going to listen to this

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Speaker 1: one first, but just to catch you up, we covered

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Speaker 1: most of Charles Schultz's early life, the birth of Peanuts,

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Speaker 1: and we had gotten up to Snoopy character wise, and

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Speaker 1: here we go with that little black and white beagle

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Speaker 1: that is probably the weirdest comic character of all time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we said before he was based on Schultz's

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Speaker 2: dog Spike, who apparently could eat razor blades without getting sick.

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Speaker 2: He had another dog, know that. I guess Spike ate

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Speaker 2: razorbikes And they were like, oh, okay, he's good. That's

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Speaker 2: what he was in Ripley's believe it or not, for

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Speaker 2: eating razor blades, yeah, not getting sick. He had another

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Speaker 2: another dog named Snooky. Snooky and then just like the

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Speaker 2: Jersey short character. And then apparently his mom suggested that

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Speaker 2: as she was dying that if the family ever got

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Speaker 2: another dog, they should name it Snoopy, like s n Upi,

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Speaker 2: which apparently is a term of endearment in Norwegian. So

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Speaker 2: you put all those together, you mix them up, put

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Speaker 2: him in a blender, blend it, and then regret that

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Speaker 2: immediately you've got Snoopy.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Snoopy was a black and white beagle who slept

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Speaker 1: on top of a doghouse. Yeah, apparently that came around

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Speaker 1: in fifty eight. For the first few years, Snoopy actually

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Speaker 1: slept in the house and if you wonder why Snoopy,

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Speaker 1: he was on top of the house so you could

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Speaker 1: see Snoopy right. Very weird to have a cartoon drawn

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Speaker 1: inside of a doghouse, So it was just sort of

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Speaker 1: a utilitarian decision. Snoopy was, like I said, one of

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Speaker 1: the weirdest character in comics, I think, because Snoopy had

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Speaker 1: and my favorite thing about Snoopy was this weird fantasy

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Speaker 1: life that Snoopy lived where he had these alter egos.

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Speaker 1: I think there were more than one hundred Snoopy alter

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Speaker 1: egos that range from being a world famous it was

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Speaker 1: always world famous, usually a world famous tennis star. He

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Speaker 1: was a world famous surgeon, an attorney. The Fierce Vulture

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Speaker 1: is one of my favorite alter egos, a famous, world

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Speaker 1: famous author. Joe Cool was one I wasn't super into. Actually,

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Speaker 1: it was probably my least favorite altar.

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Speaker 2: That's funny. My grandma called me Joe Cool because I

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Speaker 2: sent her a card once as a kid and identified myself.

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Speaker 2: I think I signed it as Joe Cool. It really

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Speaker 2: called me Joe Cool from that moment on.

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Speaker 1: But the really weird one was the Flying Ace alter ego,

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Speaker 1: in which Snoopy was a was an air airplane fighter

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Speaker 1: pilot from World War Two that had an ongoing I

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Speaker 1: was about to say beef, but just ongoing battle with

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Speaker 1: the Red Baron fighter pilot from Germany, and that became

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Speaker 1: a big hit song in nineteen sixty six. It was

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Speaker 1: a novelty song by the Royal Guardsman that hit number

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Speaker 1: two in the United States, Which is I mean I

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Speaker 1: had this forty five that It was a time and

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Speaker 1: we've talked about some famous novelty songs in the past,

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Speaker 1: but it was a time when a novelty song could

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Speaker 1: be like a legit number one hit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or number two at least. Yeah. So that flying

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Speaker 2: Ace thing. One of the things that Peanuts is known

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Speaker 2: for is it was genuine, generally not political. It was

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Speaker 2: much more universal than that. It wasn't so narrow as

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Speaker 2: to like discourse on politics.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: But during the Vietnam War, and Charles Schultz, remember he

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Speaker 2: was a veteran of World War two, very proud veteran,

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Speaker 2: and during the Vietnam War he gave official approval for

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Speaker 2: the Air Force to use Snoopy as a mascot in Vietnam.

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Speaker 2: And at the same time, as it became clear that

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Speaker 2: the United States strategy and involvement in Vietnam was just

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Speaker 2: a catastrophe and disastrous and being led by people who

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Speaker 2: were completely amoral, even Charles Schultz became dissatisfied or against

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Speaker 2: the Vietnam War, and he used the World War one

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Speaker 2: Flying Ace to comment on the Vietnam War like there

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Speaker 2: was it went as it became as overt as there's

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Speaker 2: there's one where Snoopy as World War one Flying Ace

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Speaker 2: has cursed the stupid war, and eventually it even spilled

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Speaker 2: out from the flying Ace. There's there's strips where Lioness

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Speaker 2: and Charlie Brown are discussing the prospect of being drafted.

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Speaker 2: I mean, like he got pretty anti war as a

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Speaker 2: matter of fact during the Vietnam era, which was really

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Speaker 2: out of character for not just him but also for Peanuts.

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Speaker 2: But like that, I think that just kind of goes

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Speaker 2: to show how unpopular the Vietnam War was that even

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Speaker 2: Charles Schultz, this conservative methodist World War Two veteran, was

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Speaker 2: speaking out against it through his characters.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Franklin's dad was in Vietnam during the

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Speaker 1: comic strip exactly. Yeah. And by the way, I think

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Speaker 1: I said world War two instead of World War One.

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Speaker 2: So in choke correction, Oh did you say too? I'm

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Speaker 2: sorry I didn't correct you. I really know that I

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Speaker 2: missed the chance. Hey, you mentioned Joe Cool. There was

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Speaker 2: an offshoot of Joe Cool from the nineties, wasn't there.

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Speaker 1: I don't know was here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you gotta gotta mention Joe Grunge.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't run for Joe Grunge.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't either, But I mean, I'm aware he existed.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't aware he existed.

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Speaker 2: Well, now.

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Speaker 1: That's good. Sounds like he rolled with the times. So

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Speaker 1: Snoopy had a family. We mentioned Spike. He had a

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Speaker 1: whole litter that he was born with, Spike, Bell, Marbles,

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Speaker 1: olaf Andy, Molly, and Rover, and Spike was the one

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Speaker 1: that I love. Spike became he became like arguably a

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Speaker 1: main character in the in the nineties basically, but he

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Speaker 1: debuted in nineteen seventy five and was you know, he

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Speaker 1: always had that hat on, and he had those whiskers

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Speaker 1: that sort of looked like a little beat nick mustache. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and he lived alone in the California desert and he

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Speaker 1: was usually by his big cactus, and it was just

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Speaker 1: he was he was sort of an altar of Snoopy

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Speaker 1: like in demeanor.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure, but Snoopy. It's not like Snoopy

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Speaker 2: was high strung or uptight. He was different. They were

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Speaker 2: very different, though, But I'm not sure how one was

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Speaker 2: a foil to the other. I think they were just different,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I don't think there were foils. I think yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think Snoopy, I mean, I think he was precocious.

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Speaker 1: But again, it almost felt like a spin off within

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Speaker 1: the old thing, within the within its own thing, because

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Speaker 1: he and Woodstock were commonly you know, I mean He

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Speaker 1: would interact with the other characters, but he was often

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Speaker 1: doing his own thing, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like you said with Woodstock, do you I have

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Speaker 2: a question for you. When you were going up? Did

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Speaker 2: you have the Snoopy snow cone machine?

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Speaker 1: I did you, lucky kid, I'm pretty sure either that

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Speaker 1: or a friend did. I can't remember.

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Speaker 2: That stuff was addictive, those those plays fun. Yeah, same here.

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Speaker 2: I had access to one, but I had to like

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Speaker 2: go play at somebody's house to get a Snoopy snow cone.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that. Maybe I didn't have one, or

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Speaker 1: if it was, it was a hand me down. I

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Speaker 1: know one thing for sure. My parents didn't go out

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Speaker 1: and buy me that thing new right.

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Speaker 2: They got it out of the yard sale and it

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Speaker 2: hadn't been washed out from the last time. Probably, So

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Speaker 2: there's I got one other little piece of Snoopy trivia,

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Speaker 2: all right. Snoop Dog he was nicknamed by his mom

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Speaker 2: because she thought that he looked like Snoopy as a

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Speaker 2: young man.

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Speaker 1: I could see that totally on.

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Speaker 2: Once you hear it, you're like, oh my god, he

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Speaker 2: does kind of look like Snoopy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very cute. Yeah, I agree, And Snoopy the

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Speaker 1: Dog loved smoking some wheat.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I think that might have been Woodstock,

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Speaker 2: who I say we talk about real quick, you want

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Speaker 2: to sure?

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Speaker 1: I mean Woodstock. We talked a little bit about Woodstock

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Speaker 1: in the Woodstock episode because Woodstock was named for Woodstock.

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Speaker 1: Because June twenty second, nineteen seventy is when Woodstock the

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Speaker 1: bird got its name. I think it he was around

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Speaker 1: in the cartoon before that but didn't have a name,

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Speaker 1: And there were other birds in the cartoon that preceded Woodstock.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and when they finally debuted Woodstock's name, it's Snoopy

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Speaker 2: hanging out on the roof, and I guess Woodstock had

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Speaker 2: been around for a while. And he said, Harry thinks

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Speaker 2: I finally found out what that stupid birds name is.

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Speaker 2: You'll never believe it. And apparently it was absolutely based

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Speaker 2: on Woodstock.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And there is a an author named Michelle Abate who

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Speaker 2: wrote a book on Charlie Brown and like analyzing Charlie Brown, Blackheads, Beagles,

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Speaker 2: and sweet Baboos, New perspectives on Charles M. Schultz Peanuts,

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Speaker 2: where Michelle says like Woodstock represented the younger generation, like hippies,

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Speaker 2: like straight up hippies, that's what Woodstock represented. They were

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Speaker 2: Woodstock was a like innocent and naive and just kind

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Speaker 2: of childlike and having fun and doing doing their own thing.

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Speaker 2: And then like even more r Kinley, the fact that

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Speaker 2: when Woodstock spoke, the only person that could understand Woodstock

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Speaker 2: was Snoopy and the reader can't. It's just these little

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Speaker 2: kind of chicken scratch lines.

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Speaker 1: You remember that, yeah, or Woodstock scratch.

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Speaker 2: So Michelle Obate makes the case that Charles Schultz, in

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Speaker 2: some way, shape or form, is making commentary on how

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Speaker 2: the older generation can't understand the younger generation. But for

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Speaker 2: him that was just kind of like an unusual, an

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Speaker 2: unusual nod, a kind nod to the younger generation to

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Speaker 2: a lot of people his age and from his his

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Speaker 2: his political bent, didn't think very highly of but apparently

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Speaker 2: he did.

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Speaker 1: All right, that's one of those that's like what I

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Speaker 1: was taking English classes in college when I was like, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you say so.

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Speaker 2: It's analysis, it's interpretation, like yeah, all that stuff. You

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Speaker 2: can make a pretty good case for it. You can

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Speaker 2: also you could also say like it's almost like a

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Speaker 2: fan theory.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well I think it's for sure is. But that's

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Speaker 1: just what commentary is, right.

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Speaker 2: I think, well, it's a fan theory in an academic

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Speaker 2: book form.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. That's the only thing that separates fan theory

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Speaker 1: from just printing it in a book or typing right. Right.

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Speaker 2: But suppose there's one other thing more than once Snoopy

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Speaker 2: refers to Woodstock as a hippie bird. Yeah, did that

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Speaker 2: persuade you even further?

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Speaker 1: No? No, no, I didn't think he wasn't non hippie, but

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Speaker 1: the whole like the generational chicken scratch representing like I'm

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Speaker 1: just not sure about that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I gotcha, But I love it.

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Speaker 1: I love talking about that stuff. I do too, So

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Speaker 1: do you like talking about Peppermint? Patty and Marcy love it?

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Speaker 1: A lot of people love it because a lot of

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Speaker 1: people it's sort of, you know, has become one of

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Speaker 1: these burdon or anythings where they're like, hey, listen, Peppermint,

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Speaker 1: Patty and Marcy are clearly gay young girls who just

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Speaker 1: maybe don't know it yet, and there's always been you know,

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Speaker 1: fan speculation about about that. And I think you know,

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Speaker 1: that's fine, that's all well and good. Charles Schultz himself

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Speaker 1: was interviewed in nineteen ninety seven and said that, you know,

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Speaker 1: he understood that people talk a lot about that, but

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Speaker 1: he said sexuality to him just wasn't relevant to the

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Speaker 1: comic because they were just children. And that's not to

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Speaker 1: say that a child, you know, can't be gay, but

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Speaker 1: he was like it was the kind of thing that

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Speaker 1: didn't enter his mind. I don't think he was like

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Speaker 1: offended or thought it was weird that people would speculate

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Speaker 1: about that, But it doesn't sound like that was his

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Speaker 1: bent when he drew this very sort of classic tomboy

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Speaker 1: character who was very good in athletics, who was called

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Speaker 1: sir By Marcy, which was always very funny to me.

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Speaker 1: But either way, two great characters. One of the favorite

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Speaker 1: things for me with Peppermint Patty was how she would

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Speaker 1: invert names. She called Charlie Brown Chuck. She did the

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Speaker 1: opposite for Lucy. She called Lucy Lucille. I think at

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Speaker 1: one point maybe it Schroeder calls her Patricia, which was

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Speaker 1: a little spin on that. But that's just a fun

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Speaker 1: little character thing that I always really enjoyed.

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Speaker 2: I always loved Peppermint Patty's voice in the TV specials.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, same, it was perfect.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So there was a little strip or a little

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Speaker 2: period of strips where Charles Schultz, who had by this

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Speaker 2: time befriended Billy Jean King, as Title nine was being

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Speaker 2: passed or was being discussed whether it should be passed

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Speaker 2: or not. Which was which allowed equal or demanded equal

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Speaker 2: funding for women's sports? And I guess just college, right.

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it was just college and there was

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Speaker 1: more to it, but I think it was about equal

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Speaker 1: opportunities and funding for college athletics.

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Speaker 2: Right, which is nuts because we're talking about the nineteen

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Speaker 2: late nineteen seventies. Isn't that crazy? But anyway, Billy Jan King,

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Speaker 2: who was a champion tennis star, was also a champion

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Speaker 2: of Title nine, and being her friend and supporter, Charles

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Speaker 2: Schultz drew some Peanuts strips basically using Peppermint Patty as

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Speaker 2: a stand in. And a lot of people are like, see,

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Speaker 2: Billy Jean King was gay. She came out in nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty one, so of course Peppermint Patty was and that's

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Speaker 2: what Charles Schultz meant. But no, he was using her

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Speaker 2: as a stand in for a woman athlete, as Billy

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Speaker 2: Jean King was. And in that strip they're talking about

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Speaker 2: how Peppermint Patty is going to show all the men

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Speaker 2: that she can do anything they can do, and maybe

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Speaker 2: even better, and she's great at sports. And then I

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Speaker 2: think somebody asks Lucy, who's standing there, what she's going

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Speaker 2: to do because she's no good at sports, and Lucy

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Speaker 2: goes speak out so loud that Charlie Brown is doing

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Speaker 2: like a summrsault mid air. And that was just perfect

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Speaker 2: because you had Peppermint Patty, you had Lucy doing her thing,

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Speaker 2: and then you had Charlie Brown kind of standing in

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Speaker 2: for the bystanding rest of us, who are now going

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Speaker 2: to be moved by the by the arguments in favor

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Speaker 2: of title nine.

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Speaker 1: Pretty cool, amazing, So some more Peppermint Patty stuff. She

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Speaker 1: was one of three characters who did not go to

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Speaker 1: the same school as the rest of the Peanuts gang.

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Speaker 1: Peppermint Patty and Marcy and Franklin lived unquote at the

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Speaker 1: other side of town, so they sort of represented They

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Speaker 1: never came out and said it, but they represented not

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Speaker 1: poor children, but it was definitely the other side of

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Speaker 1: town type of situation, like they had broken homes, they

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Speaker 1: were they didn't get to go to the same school.

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Speaker 1: I remember when Franklin visits visits Charlie Brown's neighborhood for

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Speaker 1: the first time, he sees the psych booth, he sees

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Speaker 1: snoopy on the house, and the great Pumpkin has talked

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Speaker 1: about and he leaves the neighborhood and say to go home,

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Speaker 1: and said, this neighborhood has me shook. So it was

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Speaker 1: definitely like a demarcation line for Marcy and Franklin and

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Speaker 1: Peppermint Patty. And also Peppermint Patty her mom was, I

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Speaker 1: guess dead, like they never said, she said, but she said,

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Speaker 1: my mom's not around. Oh really she lived. Yeah, she

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Speaker 1: lived with her father only, which was a very different

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Speaker 1: thing for a comic back then. And one of my

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Speaker 1: favorite things is even though we never hear parents speaking

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Speaker 1: to things, there are references to things parents say. And

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Speaker 1: Peppermint Patty's father always called her a rare gem, which

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Speaker 1: I thought was very sweet. It is sweet because she

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Speaker 1: wasn't very smart.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, Peppermint Patty was. She was groundbreaking in a

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Speaker 2: lot of ways in that. So, yeah, she was a tomboy.

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Speaker 2: She her she was the daughter of a single parent,

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Speaker 2: her child of a single parent, and then on top

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Speaker 2: of that, she was one of the first comic strip

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Speaker 2: females who didn't who like made her own way, Like

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Speaker 2: she didn't need a man. She wasn't there to support

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Speaker 2: the man like Blondie did, Dagwood or anything like that.

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Speaker 2: She was just her own person, making her own way

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Speaker 2: by her own terms. And that was another groundbreaking thing.

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Speaker 2: I think she came along in nineteen sixty six and

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Speaker 2: people hadn't done that before.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she had a crush on Charlie Brown, as did Marci.

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Speaker 1: Marci was very soft spoken and shy. She was very smart.

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Speaker 1: In fact, she's the one I think that points out,

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Speaker 1: like I feel kind of bad for Peppermint Patty because

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Speaker 1: she was written so unintelligently. Yeah, like her teacher gave

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Speaker 1: her a plaque at one point for being in the

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Speaker 1: D minus Hall of Fame. Yeah, and she didn't realize

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Speaker 1: Snoopy was even a dog until nineteen seventy four. What

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Speaker 1: when Marcy pointed out She used to say he was

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Speaker 1: a funny looking kid with a big nose. So they

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Speaker 1: write her really like not very intelligent. And I always

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Speaker 1: felt bad for Peppermint Patty, but Marcy was always her

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Speaker 1: loyalist friend. I don't know if I said, but also

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Speaker 1: had a crush on Charlie Brown and my favorite cute

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Speaker 1: thing ever because Marcie was the opposite of Peppermint Patty.

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Speaker 1: You know, she was smart and she was not good

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Speaker 1: at sports, whereas Peppermint Patty was the jock, and Marci

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Speaker 1: called the Super Bowl in one comic the Splendid Bowl.

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Speaker 2: She is pretty great. She didn't have a last name.

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Speaker 2: Peppermint Patty's last name was Reichardt. Marcy never had a

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Speaker 2: last name, and some people said that the reason why

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Speaker 2: is because that allowed her to be just kind of

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Speaker 2: this whatever Charles Schultz needed her to be or say

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Speaker 2: or do. But I think very quickly Marcy's character took

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Speaker 2: over and probably constrained Charles Schultz in a lot of

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Speaker 2: ways because she was just a weird little kid who

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Speaker 2: had just her own set of understanding of the world

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Speaker 2: that didn't really fit with anybody else's. It was just

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Speaker 2: totally hers. And like I said, Charles Schultz was once

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Speaker 2: asked like, why does Marcy call Patty Peppermint Patty, sir?

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Speaker 2: And apparently his response was, I have no idea. Marcy's

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Speaker 2: a very strange little girl.

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Speaker 1: Again, he's a condo it I mean, it wouldn't surprise

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Speaker 1: me that just popped into his head.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And I hadn't realized this, but a

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Speaker 2: lot of Asian American kids took Marci to be Asian American.

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Speaker 1: Weird.

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Speaker 2: Why, I don't know. I'm not sure. I guess, I

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Speaker 2: don't know. Maybe I don't know. I have no idea,

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Speaker 2: but I saw that in several places.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, that feels like a good time for

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Speaker 1: a break. Oh yeah, sure, all right, Well we'll come

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Speaker 1: back and pick up with Franklin, one of my favorite characters,

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Speaker 1: right after this.

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Speaker 2: Softly jaw.

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Speaker 1: Soft all right. We mentioned Franklin before is when it

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Speaker 1: being one of the only three that didn't go to

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Speaker 1: the same school, lived in a different neighborhood. Franklin is

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Speaker 1: very famous, obviously for being the first black Peanuts character,

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Speaker 1: and that happened for a very purposeful reason. In nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty eight, there was an LA school teacher named Harriet

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Speaker 1: Glickman who wrote a letter to Charles Schultz. This was

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Speaker 1: just after Martin Luther King Junior had been assassinated, and

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Speaker 1: she said, you know, we need to overcome quote the

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Speaker 1: vastie of misunderstanding, fear, hate, and violence, and I think

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Speaker 1: you should you should draw a black character for Peanuts.

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Speaker 1: I think that would be a big step forward, in

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Speaker 1: a big move. And Chultz initially declined, and it wasn't

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Speaker 1: because he didn't want to, but he said that he

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Speaker 1: thought it might be sort of to patronizing a move,

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Speaker 1: but then thought the better of it after you know,

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Speaker 1: a little bit more thought and some advice from Glickman's

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Speaker 1: neighbor who was a black man. His name was Kenneth Kelly,

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Speaker 1: and he said, you know what, I see what he's

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Speaker 1: saying about being patronizing. So if you're gonna do it,

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Speaker 1: just do it in a very casual way. Don't make

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Speaker 1: it some big revel lutionary stand. Just all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: have this black kid in there. And that's what he did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And doing that like that would have this twofold effect.

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Speaker 2: One it would keep Charles Schultz from having to make

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Speaker 2: like a big social statement, but two, it would also

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Speaker 2: just show how utterly normal black kids and white kids

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Speaker 2: commingling was that there wasn't even any commentary about it.

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Speaker 2: It's just this new character who Charlie Brown met happened

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Speaker 2: to be black. That was it, and that's how it happened.

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Speaker 2: They met at the beach when Charlie Brown was on

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Speaker 2: vacation with his family and.

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Speaker 1: Can I read the comic strip? Yeah, go ahead, all right,

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Speaker 1: it's four panels. Charlie Brown's on the beach shirt off.

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Speaker 1: He's got a shirt off. You gotta take your shirt off.

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Speaker 2: It was already off.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So Franklin comes up with a beach ball and says,

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Speaker 1: is this your beach ball? Second panel, Charlie says, hey, yeah,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much. Franklin says, I was swimming out

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Speaker 1: there and it came floating. By third panel, my silly

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Speaker 1: sister threw it in the water, and Franklin says, I

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Speaker 1: see you're making a sand castle. And it's kind of

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Speaker 1: a crooked tower. And in the last panel, Franklin says

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Speaker 1: it looks kind of crooked, and Charlie said, I guess

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Speaker 1: maybe it is where I come from. I'm not famous

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Speaker 1: for doing things right, just quintessential Charlie Brown.

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Speaker 2: I acted all that up. By the way, you guys

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Speaker 2: just couldn't see it.

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Speaker 1: It was great, but it was a very sweet way

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Speaker 1: to meet. And then Charlie invited Franklin over to his

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Speaker 1: side of town, and that's where Franklin got shook.

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Speaker 2: These are the strips that we learned Franklin's dad is

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Speaker 2: off fighting in Vietnam. Yeah, and Charlie Brown. We learned

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Speaker 2: Charlie Brown's dad as a barber. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: that was the first time or not, but he mentions

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Speaker 2: this in response to Franklin talking about his dad, which,

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Speaker 2: if you'll remember, Charles Schultz's dad was a barber. So

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Speaker 2: I think that's pretty sweet.

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Speaker 1: I love it. And you know what, at the end,

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Speaker 1: we ad met at the beginning to read the very

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Speaker 1: first ever strip. Let's save that for the end.

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Speaker 2: Okay, sadly, as we can attest, when you do the

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Speaker 2: right thing and promote social unity and harmony, oftentimes ugly

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Speaker 2: people will say ugly things about it. And Charles Schultz

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Speaker 2: was no exception. He got, he said, he didn't get

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Speaker 2: like a huge amount of hate mail, but it was

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Speaker 2: very vehement and that included some of the editors of

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Speaker 2: the papers that his column was syndicated in. He could

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Speaker 2: have lost like a significant amount of money by had

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Speaker 2: the had the wrong vibe been struck and like a

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Speaker 2: push against him been you know, really kind of founded

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Speaker 2: and carried out among especially Southern newspapers, like he was

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Speaker 2: getting letters from editors saying things like, I don't appreciate seeing,

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Speaker 2: you know, black kids and white kids being portrayed in

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Speaker 2: the same school. What universe do you live in? Essentially,

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Speaker 2: like where are you getting these kind of far out ideas?

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Speaker 2: And he just basically he just shook it off. He

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Speaker 2: was like, whatever, some people are gonna they're gonna hate

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00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 2: it at first, but they're gonna get used to it

431
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 2: because I'm not stopping. And he didn't. Yeah, and he

432
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 2: was there's the He's looked two different ways for this

433
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 2: one that Franklin was never fully fleshed out to the

434
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,199
Speaker 2: satisfaction of a lot of readers. And then there's another

435
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 2: vein where Charles Schultz has looked at is really putting

436
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 2: his reputation in his entire comic on the line by

437
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 2: doing this because he thought it was the right thing

438
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 2: and that it was groundbreaking and open the gates for

439
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 2: other comic strip artists, particularly black ones, to follow in

440
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:28,360
Speaker 2: his footsteps.

441
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, he threatened to quit at one point. There were

442
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,680
Speaker 1: some papers that said they were gonna either not run

443
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 1: those strips or have them redone and he said, you're

444
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: gonna print my comics as drawn, or I'm done or

445
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: you lose me for everything, And this was to the

446
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: actual syndication company, and so they backed down and allowed

447
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 1: him to keep going. But one of the cartoonists that

448
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 1: was certainly inspired by them that you mentioned was a

449
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: guy named Rob Armstrong who did the comic strip Jumpstart,

450
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: And we mentioned that Marcy didn't have a last name.

451
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: Franklin was another character that didn't have a last name

452
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 1: for a while and eventually got the last name Armstrong,

453
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 1: named after Rob Armstrong the cartoonist, which was just a

454
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: great tribute. Chultz came to him, they became friends, and

455
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,919
Speaker 1: he said, he asked him first, you know, if you

456
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,199
Speaker 1: don't mind, can I use your last name? And of

457
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 1: course Armstrong, what do you say to that? You're just

458
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: floored and was very very touched and honored that he

459
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: became his last name.

460
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

461
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,919
Speaker 1: It's a great story. And by the way, there's a

462
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 1: great article about Harry Glickman and her neighbor Kenneth Kelly.

463
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: There's a great article in Las just from a few

464
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 1: years ago about this story and it shows them still

465
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 1: friends today, hanging out and there's a great picture of

466
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: them with a little Franklin holding a Franklin stuffy.

467
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 2: That's sweet. I think Harry Rickman passed in the last

468
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 2: couple of years, but that's sweet that they were friends

469
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 2: till the end.

470
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, this is in twenty twenty. Very cute.

471
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 2: So who else? Can we talk up a little bit

472
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 2: about a couple more slightly minor characters I still think

473
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 2: are worth mentioning.

474
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we definitely need to mention pig Pen,

475
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 1: who was a very beloved character even though he almost

476
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: does nothing.

477
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was another kid who had a great, perfect

478
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 2: voice in the in the TV specials, it was kind

479
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,719
Speaker 2: of raspy and yeah, I can't describe it any other

480
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 2: way but raspy. But it fit him perfectly.

481
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 1: Yeah. He can always dirty, always had that, the flies

482
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 1: and the dust around him. And I think everyone, especially

483
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 1: these days, kids are cleaner. But I remember in the

484
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: seventies there were I remember the dirty kids. It just

485
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: always seemed to be covered in film.

486
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there was a strip. So he was introduced

487
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 2: in a series of strips starting in nineteen fifty four,

488
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 2: so pretty early on. And he says that he hasn't

489
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 2: got a name. He says, people just call me things,

490
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 2: real insulting things. Yeah, and I guess they never changed that, Like,

491
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 2: his name is always pig Pen. But in one of

492
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 2: the strips somebody's like, you know, they just presume that

493
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 2: he hates baths and he goes, No, I really like baths.

494
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 2: I just like getting dirty more, all right. So he's

495
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 2: like a cool little kid who also I've seen him

496
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 2: described as like maybe the most the one that's closest

497
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 2: to like self fulfillment and satisfaction and contentment of any

498
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 2: of the characters is pig Pen, which is pretty great.

499
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 1: He seems like he's never pining for something like the

500
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: rest of them are.

501
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 2: He just goes and does it or gets it yeah

502
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 2: or whatever.

503
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 1: And he was in Dave Did the Math. Zero point

504
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: five of the comic strips featured pig Pen. Yeah, a

505
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: little over one hundred out of almost eighteenth thousand.

506
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 2: There's also that Grateful Dead connection. One of the founding

507
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,199
Speaker 2: members of The Grateful Dead was Ron mcnernan, whose nickname

508
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 2: was pig Pen. Apparently because he's a little smelly himself.

509
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: Is that way he got the name.

510
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then Sally Man we got to talk about

511
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 2: Charlie Brown's little sister, Sally.

512
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, with their naturally early hair, she was always proud

513
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 1: of that hair. Like I mentioned earlier, it might have

514
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: been the previous episode. Lucy was always jealous because Sally

515
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: Charlie got this sweet little sister and she wanted a

516
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: little sister and not Linus. They all had little crushes,

517
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 1: which is sweet. You know. We mentioned Lucy and Schroeder,

518
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 1: but Sally had a big crush on Linus, which is

519
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 1: very sweet.

520
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. And one of the other things about Sally that

521
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 2: was great was that she when she was upset, she

522
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 2: would go talk to the school building.

523
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it would talk back.

524
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would. It would have thought bubbles, just like

525
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 2: Snoopy does in response to her stuff. Like one time,

526
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 2: I can't remember what she was talking. Oh, she said

527
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 2: she was scolded by her teacher for talking in class,

528
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 2: but the teacher was mistaken. She hadn't been talking at all,

529
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 2: and she was really upset about this, and the school thinks,

530
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 2: poor sweet baby.

531
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, just sweet and.

532
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 2: Stuff like that. Like Sally just kind of attracted that

533
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 2: kind of thing.

534
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: Well, and the school thing kind of brings up the fact.

535
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: And I know we talked a little bit about the

536
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,040
Speaker 1: minimalist style in the first episode, but so many of

537
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: his panels were just them in front of a brick wall,

538
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: or them at that psychiatrist stand or Snoopy's doghouse or

539
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: just the picture's Matt right. It was all just very

540
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: sort of spartan, sparse stuff.

541
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it worked.

542
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

543
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 2: I saw it described as that that universes. It's it's

544
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: bounded by those four panels and connected by the gutters

545
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 2: the spaces between the four panels. But somehow it just

546
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 2: seems like boundless. There's no there's no geography to it.

547
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 2: You just are where you're where that that moment is

548
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 2: taking place. But you couldn't possibly imagine the Peanuts universe

549
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 2: in some mapped out way.

550
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. I wonder if that's why it never occurred to

551
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: me to wonder where they were from. Yeah, yeah, I

552
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: mean have you ever thought about, like where was Peanuts based?

553
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: I like, I never even wondered that.

554
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: I never thought that or wondered that. But I saw

555
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 2: in a number of the essays that they presumed that

556
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 2: it was in the Midwest because the seasons like there

557
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 2: was there were there were definite seasons and Peanuts and

558
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 2: I think as a kid that was one of the

559
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 2: things that really got to me because I love the

560
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 2: seasons too. So to see the Peanuts gang like hanging

561
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 2: out in a pile of leaves, or ice skating or

562
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 2: something like that, or it was summer and there was

563
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 2: like an apple on a tree or something like. Yeah that,

564
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 2: even like you said, even though it's minimalists and you

565
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 2: can't even begin to imagine where they're from, it it

566
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 2: would evoke like how those kids were feeling. Like it

567
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 2: it added an extra layer to the dialogue or the

568
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 2: action or something like that, because you, as a kid,

569
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 2: knew how you felt when you were standing next to

570
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 2: a pile of leaves and it was chilly out and

571
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving and Christmas were just you know, coming right down

572
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 2: the pike.

573
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,959
Speaker 1: So we know it's not Peanuts is anywhere USA except Florida,

574
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: southern California, and Hawaii.

575
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think we said right, Charles Schultz is

576
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:53,719
Speaker 2: from the Minneapolis Saint Paul area.

577
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure it was just sort of that.

578
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean that's that's generally where it was set.

579
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 2: He eventually, I think, I think, not too long after

580
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 2: getting married the first time, moved to Santa Rosa, California

581
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 2: or northern California. Santa Rose is where the Charles Schultz

582
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 2: museum is and never never looked back. But even still,

583
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 2: he never the Peanuts gang never suddenly ended up in

584
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 2: California like they were still where they were.

585
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: You know that's funny. All right, let's do our final

586
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: break and finish up with part two of Part two

587
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: of Peanuts. Right for this, we'll be.

588
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 2: Right back in two and two.

589
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: Softly jaw.

590
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 2: Soft so chuck. If I can remember all the way

591
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 2: back to part one, the first episode in this pairing.

592
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: I think minutes ago.

593
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 2: I think I mentioned, how do you know that I.

594
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: Got a little ticker on my I got a timer.

595
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 2: I want one of those.

596
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: I got an egg timer?

597
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: Is it a snoopy egg timer?

598
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: It is?

599
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: Uh? So? I mentioned that there's no adults in the

600
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 2: Peanut world and that if they're if an adult is

601
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 2: is around, it's they're either being mentioned like a real

602
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 2: life adult or an adult in the Peanuts universe like

603
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 2: somebody's parent, or in the TV specials. You can hear them,

604
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 2: but they're off camera. You don't see them, and the

605
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 2: only way you hear them is that muted trombone sound effect.

606
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: Right.

607
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is one strip in the Peanuts pantheon in

608
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 2: the eighteen thousand comic strips. There's one where adults are shown,

609
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 2: and even then it's just their legs.

610
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even that, I think kind of like Franklin

611
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: was shook. I think Peanuts people were shook.

612
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 2: For sure, for a number of reasons. One this whole

613
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 2: series where Lucy is participating in an adult golf tournament

614
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 2: for some weird reason, there's way more scenery, way more

615
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 2: stuff going on in all the panels, right.

616
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's not a four panel. Was

617
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: it from one of the books.

618
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's from nineteen fifty four, so no,

619
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: it would have been before the books.

620
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: All right, I know. Oh, it's a Sunday strip. So

621
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: the Sunday's were more than four panels from May sixteenth,

622
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four. And in that they're playing golf and stuff.

623
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: She and Charlie Brown are Lucy was famously a bad

624
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: athlete as well, because she was always screwing up in

625
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: center field or in right field. But Charlie said she

626
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: played center field for some reason. And in the last

627
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: panel it shows them with three or four pair of

628
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: adult legs standing around, and it's just it's almost surreal

629
00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: and disconcerting to see human legs and peanuts. Yeah, it's

630
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:02,959
Speaker 1: just odd to see it is.

631
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 2: They're wearing pants with crisism and everything. It's just it's

632
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 2: not it ain't right, and I guess it ainate right.

633
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 2: Charles Schultz realized immediately that it ain't right. I can't

634
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 2: believe it even got out, you know, but he never

635
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 2: did it again.

636
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, he got death threats.

637
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 2: I'm sure.

638
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: How dare you show leg Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it was

639
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 1: a very weird thing. I mean, I remember one thing

640
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: I remember was because I was close to my one grandfather,

641
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: my mom's dads before he died, and Charlie Brown and

642
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 1: Franklin are always talking about their granddads, which I always

643
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: thought was really great. Yeah, that is very sweet. We

644
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: did mention the movie the TV specials. We went in

645
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: depth into the Charlie Brown Christmas Special and do you

646
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: remember what year it was, what Christmas episode that was?

647
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 2: It was either December fifth or ninth, nineteen sixty five

648
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 2: when it first seme.

649
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: No no I met ours when we recorded our Christmas

650
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: special where we talked in detail about the christ Special.

651
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, December fifth or ninth, nineteen sixty five.

652
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: We had a podcast in nineteen sixty five.

653
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have the way back Machine. They're all over

654
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 2: the place. We have an episode from seven twenty CE.

655
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, Goody Clark and Goodie Bright.

656
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: Yeah that was a wild wild ride. Uh.

657
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 1: I don't remember which Christmas special we had it in,

658
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 1: but in one of them we we detailed Charlie Brown

659
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: Christmas and so we don't have to go over here.

660
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: But the one sort of surprising thing if you didn't

661
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 1: listen to that app was that they thought it was

662
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: going to be a big failure.

663
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, so there was no laugh track. But this

664
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:38,399
Speaker 2: is a cartoon featuring kids, ostensibly four kids, and there's

665
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 2: no laugh track to the jokes? How are the dumb

666
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 2: little kids going to know when to laugh? And then

667
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 2: it has like like one of the best jazz soundtracks

668
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 2: of all time. Yeah, but that's not exactly like what

669
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 2: the what the eight year olds are into? Right in

670
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty five? Right, so yeah, the TV executives were like,

671
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 2: this is going to go no, and boy were they wrong.

672
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: Oh man, I mean is there aren't many more iconic

673
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: Christmas records than that one.

674
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 2: No, and not just Christmas records. The Great Pumpkin Waltz

675
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 2: is in there, which is just, for my money, the best,

676
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 2: the best one of the whole album, and that whole

677
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,240
Speaker 2: album is great, from the first note to the last.

678
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: I shouldn't restrict that to Christmas listening. No, I don't

679
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: know if it can. That would be weird. But I

680
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: mean I probably listened to that full record at least

681
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: twenty times over the month of December. Yeah, maybe more,

682
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: probably more than once a day. Yeah, if I'm thinking about.

683
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 2: It, I'm really almost religious about it because I don't

684
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 2: I don't ever want to get sick of it, so

685
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 2: I'm really careful, like how often I listen to it.

686
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: Oh, I just pound it. I'd never get to it.

687
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 2: It also has a song that has nothing to do

688
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 2: with Christmas, Linus and Lucy, which is what most people

689
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 2: who are generally aware of Peanuts and aren't like hardcore

690
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,280
Speaker 2: fans consider like the Peanuts theme.

691
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: Oh interesting. Yeah, and the uh, you know, the the

692
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: cultural icon that is the Charlie Brown Christmas tree, and

693
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 1: that's become part of the lexicon for a sad little

694
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: Christmas tree.

695
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can buy a Charlie Brown Christmas tree

696
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 2: too and put it on your tabletop, which we've done.

697
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 1: Oh, like a recreation or just a sad little tree.

698
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 2: It's well, you could do that and just call your

699
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 2: sad little tree Charlie Brown Christmas tree. But you can

700
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 2: buy one and it's.

701
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 1: Like like the actual Yeah.

702
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 2: It's got like a wooden X that it connects. It

703
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 2: has like a little blue blanket. Linus is blanket that

704
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 2: you put around the bottom like he does. It comes

705
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 2: with a single red ornament. It's it's wonderful. You know what, buddy,

706
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 2: I know what you're getting for Christmas.

707
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: Oh, I can put it next to the leg lamp.

708
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 2: That'd be perfect.

709
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: Actually, wow, that's great. Yeah, all right, I mean cheese.

710
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: We could sit around talk about peanuts all day long

711
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 1: if we're not careful, but we should wrap it up

712
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: and talk a little bit about the end of peanuts. Sadly,

713
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: Schultz said he was retiring. Announced it in December of

714
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine. He was diagnosed with terminal colon cancer.

715
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,320
Speaker 1: I don't even think we mentioned that he had a

716
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: disease throughout most of his career, right, that was like

717
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 1: had hand tremors.

718
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 2: Yes, So in nineteen eighty one, he was diagnosed with

719
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 2: essential tremor, which is a tremor that affects you when

720
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 2: you try to do something with your hands, most specifically,

721
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 2: and he I could draw it, yeah, like drawing seven

722
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 2: comic strips a week, all the every week, and you

723
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 2: can actually see very clearly it's a progressive illness as well,

724
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,720
Speaker 2: progressive neurological disorder. So it just gets worse with time,

725
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 2: and you can see through the progression of peanuts the

726
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 2: line started getting much more squiggly. But if you look

727
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 2: at tests of people with hand tremors, I think the

728
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 2: most prevalent test is it's like draw like a circle

729
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 2: from the inside out.

730
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: What the hell is that called spiral?

731
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 2: A spiral? Thank you? You started to center and go outward

732
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,720
Speaker 2: with the spiral, and they'll put that next to somebody

733
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 2: who doesn't have an essential tremor and what that looks like,

734
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 2: and it's just like night and day. So the fact

735
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 2: that he can even continue on for twenty years is amazing.

736
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, jeez, unbelievable. So, yeah, ninety nine diagnosed with cancer.

737
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 1: He had a big backlog of comic strips that he

738
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,399
Speaker 1: had drawn, so they were able to keep publishing through

739
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 1: his illness until the day the day after he died. Actually, yeah,

740
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 1: February twelfth, two thousand, he was seventy seven.

741
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 2: Isn't that remarkable, Like they both died at the same time,

742
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 2: or they both expired at the same time, Peanuts and

743
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 2: Charles Schultz.

744
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: Like they had that he had that many backlogs that

745
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 1: it just worked out like that.

746
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he had that many days left.

747
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty amazing unless a family was like there were

748
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: one hundred more and they just shoved him in a

749
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 1: drawer and said, it's really kind of a great story

750
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: this way.

751
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 2: I'm hoping that's not the case me too.

752
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: His family was smart though, because they said, you know what,

753
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: we don't think anyone else should ever draw this, like

754
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:09,399
Speaker 1: Peanuts should should stop because he's not around anymore. And

755
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: that's what happened. That syndication company, unbelievably almost honored that request.

756
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: When you see new Peanuts stuff now, whether it's like

757
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: movies and you know, the brand is still a thing,

758
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: but those those comic strips, if you see them, are

759
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 1: all reprints.

760
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, supposedly it's a billion dollar brand.

761
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 1: I believe it.

762
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 2: And I read a quote from Bill Waterson from Calvin

763
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 2: and Hobbes, who basically was like, like merchandising cartoons and

764
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 2: stuff you can thank Charles Schultz for that.

765
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: Amazing.

766
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then we mentioned one more thing before we

767
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 2: finished that. There was a tribute to Charles Schultz and

768
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 2: Peanuts among basically all the working comic strip artists on

769
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 2: November twenty six, twenty twenty two.

770
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 1: Very emotional.

771
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you can go to the Charles Schultz Museum website.

772
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 2: They have links to all of them, and just some

773
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 2: of them are amazing, but a few stood out to me.

774
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 2: We talked about the Gilthorpe one, which, now that you've

775
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 2: heard these two episodes, go look up that Gilthorpe November

776
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 2: twenty six, twenty twenty two, comic strip tribute to Peanuts

777
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 2: because finally Charlie Brown gets to kick the football and

778
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 2: it's just the sweetest, sweetest thing. I can't believe that

779
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 2: they thought of doing that. It was just so perfect.

780
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:26,879
Speaker 1: Great.

781
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 2: There was one from Curtis. You remember we talked about

782
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 2: how a lot of black comic strip artists credited Charles

783
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 2: Schultz with introducing Franklin is kind of breaking that ceiling

784
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,280
Speaker 2: for them. Sure, Curtis has one where Curtis, the comic

785
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 2: strip character, asks Charlie Brown to hang out and or

786
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 2: he goes, hey, Charlie Brown, what you do? And Charlie

787
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 2: Brown goes just chilling, Homie, let's hang out. And as

788
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 2: they're walking away, Curtis turns to you, the viewer and

789
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 2: is like that Charlie Brown's a lot cooler than you'd think.

790
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 2: When he's away from that Peanuts strip, Thatch Garfield has

791
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,959
Speaker 2: Snoopy bringing out like one hundred year birthday cake.

792
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, that one's surreal looking.

793
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 2: And then to me, it is to me the one

794
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 2: I give it like the most appropriately awkwardly formal award.

795
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 2: Mary Worth was that Merriworth.

796
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 1: Okay, I thought it was so.

797
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 2: Maryworth is like the most bone dry soap opera and

798
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 2: comic strip around to begin with, and just in total

799
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 2: Merriworth's style. Merriworth is sitting on the couch and it

800
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 2: just explains how this is Charles Schultz's hundredth birthday and

801
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 2: they're all celebrating it. So, happy hundredth birthday, Charles Schultz.

802
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 2: It's just so.

803
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: It was very Yeah, it was very dry. And then

804
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: family Circle, I think Jeffy tripped over Snoopy's dead.

805
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:51,439
Speaker 2: Body, which Charlie Brown was on the run from.

806
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:54,479
Speaker 1: So I promised i'd read that very first comic strip,

807
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 1: because it's really emblematic of like what Charles Schultz was

808
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:02,760
Speaker 1: going after, Like his debut comic strip for his baby

809
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: was this, And it's very a little more crudely drawn obviously.

810
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: But panel one, these two kids are sitting on the

811
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 1: sidewalk and you see Charlie Brown in the distance walking up,

812
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: and the kid on the sidewalk goes, well, here comes

813
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: old Charlie Brown. And then Charlie Brown is kind of

814
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 1: walking in front of him. Good old Charlie Brown, Yes, sir.

815
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,399
Speaker 1: And then he walks by and they're watching him pass,

816
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: and he goes good old Charlie Brown. And then the

817
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 1: kid on the sidewalk in the last panel says, how

818
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: I hate him. That's the debut through the world.

819
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,399
Speaker 2: That's really amazing, pretty amazing, everybody. That was a great

820
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 2: way to end it, Chuck.

821
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: Hey, thanks.

822
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 2: If you want to know more about Peanuts, just go

823
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 2: start reading Peanuts comic strips. Even if you didn't appreciate him,

824
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 2: you'll probably learn to like him more just by forcing

825
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:54,240
Speaker 2: yourself to. And since I said that, it's time for listener, ma'am.

826
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: Short and sweet one. Here. Hey, guys, hope you're well,

827
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: your podcast, it's been a steady presence in my life

828
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 1: for almost four years, has got me through one many

829
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: study sessions and kitchen cleaning weekends over the years. My

830
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: friend and now partner introduced me to your show, and

831
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: I'm so thankful she did. Being long distance, it's nice

832
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 1: to have something to talk about and learn a few

833
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,359
Speaker 1: things along the way. Of course, whenever we do see

834
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: each other, we make it a habit to put on

835
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 1: an episode and listen together. So I just wanted to

836
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 1: say thank you guys for everything you do. You make

837
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:28,839
Speaker 1: learning about the common to the obscure exciting and fun,

838
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 1: and I look forward to many more years listening to you.

839
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 1: Have a wonderful day. This is a course for my

840
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 1: Canadian our new friend, Olivia c and Ottawa, Ontario, Canada,

841
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 1: North America, Planet Earth.

842
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 2: Very nice, Thanks Olivia, that was very kind of you.

843
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 2: What a great one to add to the Peanuts episode. Chuck, Yeah, yeah, Well,

844
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 2: if you want to be like Olivia and get in

845
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 2: touch with this and just say that you appreciate us,

846
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 2: we really love to hear that kind of thing once

847
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 2: in a while, you can wrap it up ghenttly caress

848
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 2: it on the bottom and send it off to stuff

849
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 2: podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is

850
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 2: a production of iHeartRadio.

851
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

852
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.