1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: Did you know a recent law can leave your personal 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: data exposed online for anybody to find. If you've turned 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: on the news lately, you know the internet has created 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: a dangerous new world. It's time you take back the 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: power by using a new website called truth Finder. Have 6 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 1: you been issued a speeding ticket, received a lean from 7 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: the I R S? Did you forget about embarrassing social 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: media profile? That info may already be online. Truth Finder 9 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: can help you find it. Truth Finder searches millions of 10 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: public records, assembling the data together in one report. Members 11 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: get unlimited searches, so you can also look up those 12 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: close to you and make sure they're not hiding something. 13 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: Visit truth finder dot com, slash Nancy, enter your own name. 14 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: Get started Crime stories with Nancy Grace on sirius x 15 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 1: m i UMP channel one thirty two. The mystery only 16 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 1: deepens regarding the disappearance of a five year old little boy, 17 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: Lucas Hernandez. I remember when the twins are just five 18 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: years old. When I look back at those photos, it 19 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: nearly breaks my heart. How sweet and innocent and tender 20 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: children are at just five years old, just sixty months 21 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: in this world. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. 22 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. What happened to Lucas Hernandez. 23 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: I think we know with me now the private investigator 24 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: who actually finds Lucas's tiny body in a washed out culvert. 25 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: Kim Martin with me on the story from the beginning 26 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: with Missing Pieces Network. Dr Brian Russell, lawyer, psychologist, host 27 00:01:55,640 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: of Investigation Discoveries, Fatal Vows, Ashley Wilcott, juvenile judge and 28 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: founder of child crime watch dot com, and private investigator 29 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: Vincent Hill. First of all, to David Marshburn. David, when 30 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: I listened to the recording you made of Lucas Hernandez's 31 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: stepmother Emily Glass, as you two are driving around trying 32 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: to find little Lucas's tiny body, it's it's just overwhelming. 33 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:32,679 Speaker 1: Why did you believe you needed to record the entire thing? 34 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: I found that I don't write notes in front of 35 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: people because that's sort of like a intimidating uh as well, 36 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: you know all these things and intimidate people especially were 37 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: writing down stuff, and I always record everything usually if 38 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: I can, so I can go back and say, well, 39 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: you know, if Marsha and I have a question together 40 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 1: of of did we miss something and we've forgotten to 41 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: do the recording the first day and I knew the 42 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: second day was the most important. But there were so 43 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: many venerables in this case that if she said something that, um, 44 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: you know, it would be my word against hers, and 45 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: in court for the justice of Lucas, I would have 46 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: it on recording it's her words, not well, hold on 47 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: just a moment. I want to follow up on that. 48 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: You know, in this day and age, Ashley Wilcott, I 49 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: don't have time to watch a lot of TV, but 50 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: we have a whole generation that grew up watching UM 51 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: Law and Order SUV. Excuse me SVU. I mean it 52 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: goes on and on and on, and they expect when 53 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: they get and I was just on jury duty last week, 54 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: when those Gars get in the box, they expect that 55 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: type of evidence, and they're more familiar with the defenses, 56 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: bag of tricks and the defenses. And he's right, David 57 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: Marshburn is right. The defense would argue it's his word 58 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: against hers, of course, and so you're right, Nancy, that's 59 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: exactly what a jury does. And it's funny because a 60 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: lot of these trials, if you watch them as their 61 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,679 Speaker 1: live streamed. People want that aha moment, and that's sexy. 62 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: We can believe the defendant. We're not going to believe him. 63 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: It's his word, he's making it up. He sounds like 64 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: a nice guy, but he's in here just talking. And 65 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: the reason I think they do that in part is 66 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: because they want to find something exciting about a trial. 67 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 1: You and I both know trials are tedious in terms 68 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: of there are very few ah ha exciting moments. Well, 69 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: I don't know, Ashley. I don't know what kind of 70 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: cases you've been trying, but what I would be trying 71 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: murders and rapes and child mollistations. I gotta tell you something, 72 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 1: every moment my heart was racing. I could not eat. Uh, 73 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: I would feel sick in the ladies bathroom every break. 74 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: I'd sit there with my evidence through the lunch a. 75 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I never knew what was going 76 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: to come off of the stand, what was gonna come out, 77 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: who was gonna say what? But the tedious nature of 78 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 1: a trial, that's true too. You know, when you've got 79 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: one two hundred states exhibits you've gotta keep up with, 80 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: and you've got to enter this into evidence, and you've 81 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: got to have a legal argument, you gotta send the 82 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 1: jury in and out. Yeah, you know what I do. 83 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: Hear you, Vincent Hill, you're a private investigator. Do you 84 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: agree with David Marshburn? Doesn't it kind of chill the moment? 85 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, um, when the downer comes to 86 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 1: the gaming table in Vegas, the cooler and somebody will 87 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 1: be on a winner's trick, and all of a sudden, 88 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: the cooler shows up and everything chills. When somebody stops 89 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: to start taking notes on everything you're saying, that does 90 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 1: make you sit back for a moment. Or when the 91 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: cop crunches on the audio recording in the middle of 92 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: the interview table, you kind of I've seen people kind 93 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 1: of like whither and suddenly they clam up and won't 94 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: talk anymore. Yeah, that's exactly right. Nancy and David did 95 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: an outstanding job, because what you want to do with 96 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: these people that you're talking to, whether it's a see 97 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: I or suspect or anything like that, is to build 98 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: their trust. And as soon as you start pulling out 99 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: that pin and giving them that evil stare, that's when 100 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: people start to clam up. So yeah, yeah, you know what, 101 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: You're right Brian Russell excuse me. Dr Brian Russell, lawyer, psychologist, 102 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: host of investigation Discoveries Fatal vows what is it? I mean, 103 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: I'm so we're about to hear the recordings, by the way, everybody, 104 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: but Brian, what is it? I mean? The truth doesn't 105 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 1: change just because somebody's taking notes. Yeah. I think when 106 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 1: especially when people know that they're going to be dishonest 107 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: and they're acutely aware that somebody is going to be 108 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: able to come back with notes or recording or something 109 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: and and be able to compare what they say later 110 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: to what they're saying now, that they get especially nervous 111 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: and they you know, fortunately for us in the law 112 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: abiding public and for law enforcement, most people are not 113 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: as good as they want to be or as they 114 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: think they are at lying, and it's difficult for them 115 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: to make sure that they keep everything consistent. What they 116 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: told you five minutes ago, what they're telling you now, 117 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: what they're going to tell you in a week. You 118 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: know what, You're right, Brian? Well, also with me Kim 119 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: martin Missing Pieces Network. She has been trying to find 120 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: little Lucas Hernandez from the beginning, and Kim, you have 121 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: all people on our program today. I need to buckle 122 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: your seatbelt because this is very disturbing. David Marshburn. Please. 123 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:48,679 Speaker 1: This is secretly recorded audio of Lucas's stepmother, the last 124 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: person to see him alive, as David uh, very well 125 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: known private investigator, is driving around the back roads with 126 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: her in the car, listening to her directs him toward 127 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: where Lucas's dead body may be. I think we're reading 128 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: Let's fine Lucas Hernandez, Today's four that twelve were on 129 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: the way to the location of Emily Glass. She is 130 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: going to possibly lead us to Lucas Hernandez's remains. Huh huh, okay, 131 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: I want to let uh, you're definitely coming coming back, uh, 132 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: because I told you I was gonna help you. I'm 133 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: gonna running there, get your families, and it ain't gonna 134 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: be half as bad as what you're thinking some piece doing. 135 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 1: Why do you say that you don't know that one pieces? Hey, no, no, no, no, no. 136 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: Look we're right here, girl, we ain't going nowhere. Everything 137 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: is okay, and what ain't okay? We're it's the make okay, 138 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: we'll be like that. It won't be so hard on yourself. 139 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: I can't do jail. I can't. You ain't gonna do jail, 140 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: but don't preach Trial Services is not gonna look me out. 141 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: Child Services has nothing preach child with your bond pre 142 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: trial pre trial services the we can choose to to 143 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: name me. Okay, so they if they do, we post 144 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: a bond. Regardless, you're still coming up. If they don't 145 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: agree to preach trial, we'll post the bond. Better just 146 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: be then you'll have to contact David. You know however 147 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: he says you had to contact him. Don't be like that. 148 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: Don't be so hard on yourself. I know you're scared 149 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,559 Speaker 1: to death, and I mean, we're gonna be right here. 150 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: We're gonna get you through this whole thing and take 151 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 1: you right bay to where we got you from. We're 152 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: gonna be with you every step in a way. Why 153 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: you like, I don't understand in you is I don't 154 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: understand why what where would you be with me? Because 155 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: that's what we do. It's a job. Wow. Okay, what 156 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: you're hearing in the background are kaz en Rico. Those 157 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: are dogs belonging to David Marshburn, the p I who 158 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: is driving the stepmother around trying to find the boy's body. Now, 159 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: what a surreal scenario they are in. You were also 160 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: hearing Marcia, a female investigator that works with David Marshburn. David, 161 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: I couldn't help, but notice you guys telling her, We're 162 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: gonna get you through this. We're gonna get you through this. Translation. 163 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 1: Just keep talking, lady, Just keep talking. That's the that's 164 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: the goal. And we make little uh see, we try 165 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: not to lie, and and you know we in our minds, 166 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: we don't. We put ourselves in her position where she's 167 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: lined to us, so in her mind she makes a 168 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: fake reality, so we do too. Yeah, you're not gonna 169 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: get the jail, You're going to prison, so that our mine. 170 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: That's not line. So we do the same thing she 171 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: does that Kim Martin with missing pieces of network. Do 172 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: you hear Emily Glass crying during this for herself? I 173 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: think Matthew got the thing that stands out for me 174 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: the most. She doesn't mention Lucas. She talks about herself. 175 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:58,079 Speaker 1: I can't do jail, freachil services won't let me out. Um, 176 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 1: you know, I don't understand why you're helping. You know, 177 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: she doesn't mention Lucas. One, guys, we are playing incredible 178 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:12,359 Speaker 1: sound obtained by private eye David Marshburne, who actually got 179 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: the stepmother. Last scene with five year old Lucas on 180 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: recording is they are driving around trying to find the 181 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: Todd's body. To Dr Brian Russell, lawyer, psychologist, host of 182 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: the hit series on investigation Discovery Fatal vows, Brian, what 183 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: do you make of her crying about herself and her future? 184 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: They're out looking for a child's body and she's crying 185 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: about herself. Yeah, this whole thing, Nancy, is very reminiscent 186 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: for me of Casey Anthony. And I know that you 187 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: and Dan Abrams have recently analyzed this case again, the 188 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: Anthony case on television. But one of the things that 189 00:13:55,600 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: has always sort of haunted me about the coverage and 190 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: which I participated of that case, is that I'm afraid that, 191 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: in a morbid way, it taught people that if you 192 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: kill a child and you can get that body somewhere 193 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: where it's not going to be found for a while, 194 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: you might get lucky enough that by the time it's found, 195 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: people won't be able to determine definitively how the child died, 196 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: and you might escape prison and So what I hear 197 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: here is a woman who sounds very much to me 198 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: like Casey Anthony sounded. She sounds very self focused. If 199 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: she's worried about anything regarding the discovery of little Lucas's body, 200 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: it's probably that it won't be deteriorated enough. Uh. It's 201 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: all very chilling. But I also think as a psychologist 202 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,479 Speaker 1: what you heard here on our audio is a masterful 203 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: job of building rapport with her and getting past that 204 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: self preservation, inst inked and worry of hers. There's a 205 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: brand new website causing a lot of trouble for people 206 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: with something to hide. Have you ever had a bad 207 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: feeling about somebody may be suspected your partners cheating, maybe 208 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: worried about your online reputation. If you answer yes to 209 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: any of those questions, you may need truth Finder. Public 210 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: records are only recently easily available online. Before websites like 211 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: truth Finder, you most likely have to visit a courthouse 212 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: to get that information. Now it's as simple as entering 213 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: a name. Truth Finder sifts through millions of public records 214 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: from all over the country, assembling them into one easy 215 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: to read report. Search the names of somebody you know, 216 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: you could find criminal and arrest records, bankruptcies, contact information, 217 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: social dating profiles, financial assets, and a lot more. Why 218 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: fork out thousands to a private investigator when you can 219 00:15:55,800 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: do the job yourself. Everybody you know has something to hide. 220 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: Now you can root out the most dangerous people before 221 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: you become the next victim. It's not just used to 222 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: us bad people. Truth Finder helps Americans reunite with friends, family, 223 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: even people who served with them in the military. It's 224 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: never been so easy to find the truth. Go to 225 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: truth finder dot com, slash nancy and enter any name 226 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: to get started with us right now. The private investigator 227 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: who managed to capture on tape tape recording everything evil 228 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: stepmother Emily Glass said as the two were driving around 229 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: trying to find the remains a five year old Lucas Hernandez. 230 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: David Marshburn playing this exclusively for us here on Crime Stories. 231 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: Let's listen. What's gonna help it out? Court? Okay, when 232 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: you go to court, they're gonna grant you a lawyer, 233 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: or you can purchase the lawyer. Okay, So at the 234 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: time of court, all right, if they give you a 235 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: quarter point, in which quarter point is just like anybody else, 236 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: any other lawyer. What you do is you tell that lawyer, 237 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: that lawyer when you go to the first appearance, which 238 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 1: will be the more. Your first appearance will be the more, 239 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 1: and I'll go to court with you. I'll take you 240 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: to court because I'll stay to more. Um, the lawyer 241 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: will um. You'll get your lawyer. Then I'll take you 242 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: to your lawyer's office and basically you're gonna tell them 243 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: you're gonna plead empty to go in do to eighteen 244 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: months on probation and then no, the only time you're 245 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: gonna get jail time now as you violate your probation 246 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: because the max you can get the max is eighteen 247 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: months probation. That's it now, if you violate your probation, now, 248 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go and tell you you can do seven, 249 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: nine or eleven months. Now, if you violate your probation, 250 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: you best believe you're gonna do that. They're not gonna 251 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: put you back on probation because they want to see 252 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: you do time for this. But you can't because the 253 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: max a judge can give you as eighteen months. I 254 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: just showed you on that grid eighteen months and max. 255 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: Now they're gonna probably charge you with obstruction. That means 256 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: you lied to them. Well that's not gonna stick. Obstruction 257 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: never sticks anyway, So that's that's neither here there that 258 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: don't even carry a bond like they don't have a 259 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 1: a bond they put you on. It will be together 260 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 1: with the concealment of a death. It's a fifty thousand 261 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: dollar max bond. You cannot get amen doll bond. That's 262 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: against constitutional rod. The eighth Amendment of the United States 263 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: is everybody has the right to affordable bond, affordable bail right, Yes, 264 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: you did fIF and was right for that charge you had, 265 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: and yes it was. I read it up on it. 266 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: It was the max. And you know I could have 267 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: bonded you on it, and I told Jonathan I would 268 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: when I got up here and you weren't released yet, 269 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: I would bond you. But you were already released, so 270 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: that was fine. He said, we don't have the five thousand. 271 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: I said, you don't need to die that first. You 272 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: have to release me because you weren't. Friend Luncas, do 273 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: what I mean, It makes sense to why you would 274 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 1: release me as to frame Lucas. No, I wouldn't. I 275 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: had to talk to you. I won't go to get 276 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: to the jail, talk to you and letting them hear it, 277 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: and then they hit you a murder? What do I 278 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: look stupid? I am a smart mother, you know that. 279 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: So I'm making sure my right now. Cathy looked up 280 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 1: your sister, and your sister's fine to have mine? Is 281 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: it me or mine? Mia? So that's in the words. 282 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: And and I just don't know what else to tell you, 283 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: but Lucas is the tradeoff. So I don't know what 284 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: you want to do on that, because we have to 285 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 1: have Lucas. I have an idea about where Lucas is 286 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: and if everything is correct, by about four or four thirty, 287 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: we should be bringing you back to We should be 288 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: bringing back but last said you won't be in handcuffs. 289 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: They're not gonna handcuffed, They're not gonna arrest you. And 290 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: then when we go down there, you're gonna do an interview. 291 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: But just make sure the story you tell this this 292 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: time is exactly what we're talked about. It's just so 293 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: bizarre to me. As she will caught. Junal Judge found 294 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: her child crime watch dot Com that she's focused on 295 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: her bond for hiding a body when Lucas is dead 296 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 1: and late at the bottom of washed out covert. Here's 297 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: the unfortunate part Nancy. She has no empathy, sympathy, compassion 298 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: for what she's done. And so while it may sound 299 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: bizarre to us as rational, feeling, sympathetic, empathetic individuals, she 300 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: is more concerned about herself. Let's go back to the 301 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: secretly recorded audio that private eye David Marshburn recorded as 302 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,120 Speaker 1: he's driving around with an evil stepmother and she's called 303 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: Emily Glass, the last person to see Lucas Hernandez alive. Listen, now, 304 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: I don't know what what Lucas live. When he when 305 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: he passed away, was on his back? Did he throw up? 306 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: He choked on his own? Vomit? Did? Um? Was he 307 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: just did in his bed? Then on the couch? Huh? 308 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 1: He's on the bed there on the couch on his 309 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: side or on his back and his back? So did 310 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: you say he vomited and so doing vomited? You didn't. 311 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: So he just died of a concussion. And it's okay, okay, 312 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: you freaked out. I'm telling you you're gonna be fine, 313 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: and I want you to do one thing for me 314 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: when we get done and we go find Lucas, you 315 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: ower me a thank you and a smile, because that's 316 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: so far. You're not smiled at me one time, and 317 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: I tried to ease you up and and I know 318 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 1: it's not a joking matter, but I'd like to see 319 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 1: people happy. And this is a path for you to 320 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: make the right But I don't. I don't feel you 321 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: done right or wrong either way because you're dealing with 322 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: emotions him. You know, one out of ten would probably panicked, 323 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: just like, Wow, okay, I don't know how you how 324 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: you got through saying all that, David Marshburn, I guess 325 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: you had your eye on the prize of finding him 326 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: and helping cops to make a case. One thing, Yes, no, 327 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 1: did she Emily Glass know that she was secretly being 328 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: recorded in the car as you guys were talking and 329 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: driving around looking for the body? But hold on. Dr 330 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: Brian Russell, host of I D S Fatal vows in 331 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 1: a one party consent jurisdiction, that's okay. The comparison is, 332 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 1: if you record someone on your phone when you're talking, 333 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: they don't have to know about it. In a one 334 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: party consent state, one party consents to the recording. Is 335 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 1: that correct? Brian, that's correct. It sounds like one of 336 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: the investigators was with her at all times while she 337 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: was being recorded, and that then would be the party 338 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 1: who consented to the record, and so, yes, you're correct, 339 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: it would be legal. And another thing to Vincent hill 340 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: p I have you ever seen those stories where cops 341 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: send out a notice to all of the bond forfeiturs, 342 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: the felons on the run, saying they've won a prize, 343 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 1: or they've won a stereo or I don't know what 344 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: they may have won, and they all show up and 345 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 1: then they arrest them. That's trickery, and trickery is absolutely 346 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: okay under the constitution, even by police. What you can't 347 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: do under the constitution is forced someone into a confession. 348 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: If they're an idiot enough to show up for a 349 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: so called free TV, that's their problem. Yeah, Nancy, we 350 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: used that all the time when I was working on 351 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: patrol in Nashville, when we were serving warrants. You know. 352 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: But the great thing here with these recordings is David 353 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 1: is just coaching her along, coaching her along to get 354 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 1: her to talk on her own free will. And that 355 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: you know, you can't dispute that when it goes to 356 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: court because there was no co origin in this these 357 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: statements here, Okay, back into the secretly recorded audio japes. 358 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I see the way you're scared of Jonathan. 359 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 1: So you and I both well, we talked about what 360 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 1: we did yesterday. I noticed that you were a little 361 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: bit afraid of what he would do to you. And 362 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: you know what, I don't think nothing. I don't think 363 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: he'd do anything. Have you talked to him about this? Really? Okay? 364 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: And how do you want to break it on? Do 365 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: you want me to or do you want us to 366 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 1: do it together when we leave from the police department 367 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: once all the bookings done and on we leave, do 368 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: you want us to do it together or do you 369 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 1: want to do it on your own? How would you 370 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,679 Speaker 1: like to do that? Yeah? Okay. You are listening to 371 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: private eye David Marshburne as easily eating stepmother Emily Glass 372 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: down the garden trail, hoping against hope that at some 373 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: point she will direct him to little Lucas's body. To 374 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: Kim Martin was Missing Pieces network, who's been looking for 375 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: Lucas since he first went missing? What do you make 376 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: of these audio tapes? Kim? At the time when I 377 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: think that I couldn't be more surprised. You know, I 378 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: sit here and my mouth is open. I just I 379 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: can't believe what I'm hearing. I mean, that's all. Yeah, 380 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: it's surreal at this point when you hear her voice 381 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,360 Speaker 1: and her crying and carrying on and asking about her 382 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: bond and what's gonna happen to me? Me, me, me me, 383 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,360 Speaker 1: it's just so surreal to me. They're out looking for 384 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,880 Speaker 1: a baby's body and you and I know right now 385 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: that it's been disposed of under a bridge. And if 386 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: it hadn't been for that catchpan in the bridge to 387 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: slow down the water and catch debris, we may never 388 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: have found his remains. We may never have known what 389 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 1: happened to Lucas. That's what she was counting on. How 390 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 1: are the mom and dad holding up the bio mom 391 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: and bio dad. Um, yeah, as you can imagine, it's 392 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:18,120 Speaker 1: it's been really difficult. Um, you know, a lot of questioning. 393 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: I think what they could have done or should have done, 394 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 1: and um, well, for one thing, they could have taken 395 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: the boy out of being alone with her the first 396 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,439 Speaker 1: time he was covered with bruises. I mean, you know, 397 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: I'm just putting it out there. You know, you leave 398 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: your child alone with somebody, they turn up covered in 399 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: bruises and say, uh, step mommy beat me? What well 400 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: was I don't I don't get that, Ashley Wilcott. Do 401 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 1: you believe that parents just don't want to accept They 402 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: don't want to believe it's true. I sometimes thinking, I 403 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: guess we're gonna bring in Dr Brian on this after you, 404 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: ash because I need a shrink on this. Once a 405 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 1: child is covered in bruises the first time and they say, 406 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: Emily did it? Why would you leave the kid alone 407 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: with Emily? Ashley Right, So in this case there's a 408 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 1: favor to protect by the father. This is what gets 409 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,199 Speaker 1: to me in so many cases of abuse and neglect, 410 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 1: I said, as a judge, I see it all the time. 411 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: Parents know see hard evidence bruises in this case that 412 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: someone in the household, in this case the stepmother is 413 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 1: actually physically abusing their child. And what do they do. 414 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 1: They turn a blind eye, their in denial, They don't 415 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,400 Speaker 1: want to believe it, and they let it keep happening. 416 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 1: Parents have got to protect their child. That didn't happen 417 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: in this case. What about that? Dr Brian Russell. I mean, 418 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: you see it so many times. And remember the dad, 419 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: the bio dad had nothing to do with Lucas's death. 420 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: He was out of town, he did not know what happened. 421 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: He's in deep, deep grieving, probably blaming himself. But why 422 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: is it we want to trust the ones we love 423 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: even when we see physical evidence otherwise. Well, I think 424 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: in a lot of these cases in which the step 425 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: parent abuses uh, their non biological child, their step child, 426 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: the biological parent who brought the step parent into that 427 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: child's life did it not because they were thinking about 428 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: the child and whether the child needed the step parent 429 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: in his or her life. They were thinking about themselves, 430 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: and they were thinking about what they needed and wanted 431 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: from the step parent. And when there came a question 432 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: as to whether or not the step parent was treating 433 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: the child appropriately, the thought of what the biological parent thought, 434 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: of what he or she would lose if the step 435 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: parent went away, UH, what was outweighed the possibility that 436 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: the step parent was abusing the child. So you know, 437 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: when you say, well, the father in this case didn't 438 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: have anything to do with Lucas's death, that's true in 439 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: a direct sense, but it sounds to me, like Lucas's 440 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: father brought Emily Glass into the child's life, and I 441 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: think that feelings of pretty serious guilt over that are 442 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: appropriate to Kim Martin with missing pieces of network. Where 443 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: was the bio mom during all this? She was out 444 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: of out of the state. She was, I believe, in Oklahoma. 445 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: How awful would she say the child? You know, they 446 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: had shared custody, but Jonathan had physical custody, so it 447 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: was kind of at Jonathan and Emily, you know, decision. 448 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: And I believe that towards the end, Emily did what 449 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: she could to kind of keep her away because I 450 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: believe one of the last things that Jamie said to 451 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: Lucas was something to the effect that, you know, mom 452 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 1: is going to help you. We're gonna get you out 453 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: of this. We're gonna get you away from her. And 454 00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: you know, I think she kind of lives with that now. 455 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: David Marshburn with us the private investigator who actually finds 456 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: Lucas's tiny body, and he did it by driving around 457 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: convincing this woman, the stepmother, to drive around with him 458 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: for hours on end, chatting, secretly recording her every word 459 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: until they find Lucas. With me David Marshburn, the p 460 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: I who actually finds the body of five year old Lucas. Here, 461 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: he is secretly recording Lucas's stepmother as they search for 462 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: the body. Do you realize how good you feel right 463 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: now just by saying but do you feel a little 464 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: pressure away by telling me about Lucas a little bit? 465 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: But you're okay? You are not. You are not a 466 00:31:55,360 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: bad person. Good right, you're not. And I don't see 467 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,239 Speaker 1: you as a bad person. And I will stay with 468 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: you all the way. I will not leave you. Don't. 469 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: The time I have to leave is when they're doing 470 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: your in their interview with you. Okay, when they're doing 471 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: their interview with you, I cannot be in there. So 472 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: make sure you tell them everything and and and and 473 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: don't don't change your story. And I've got the photos. 474 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: I think we can go to the hospital and get 475 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: the doctors and get the records. So so, um, if 476 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: while you're in there, if they need those records, I'll 477 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: go get them. But you'll have to we'll have to 478 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: make that set up, or Jonathan set that up, or 479 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: call them and say, lolloy, I need to release these 480 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: records to this p I. So I can take you 481 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: back up there. Okay, David Marshburne, I thought you said 482 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: you tried not to lie. Why did you keep telling 483 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: her over and over you're not a bad person. Well, 484 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: that's just my calling it, Like it is a lot 485 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: of people here the boy's body. If you understand what 486 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: I'm doing, I'm basically giving her the scenario of in 487 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: her mind what the best table outme is for her. 488 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: But then by her talking it's time of mind game. 489 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: I'm giving her an out and then I need her 490 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: to respond. So the truth she doesn't realize that. The 491 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 1: truth is that you just basically need her to keep 492 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: going and find that body. That's what you need. And 493 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: you're telling her whatever you have to tell her to 494 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: find that body, and thank thank God in Heaven that 495 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: you did that. I just got to give you a 496 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: little bit of great Well the catching you sing you're 497 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: not a bad person. Against what when when she makes 498 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: statements it goes against what I'm telling her. You know 499 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,400 Speaker 1: what I'm giving her her fantasy of the outcome is 500 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: she's actually going against that. Well, I tell you the 501 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,439 Speaker 1: last thing she wanted. The last thing she wanted were 502 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 1: those hospital records, okay, or the autopsy, because the what 503 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: do you believe the hospital records are going to show 504 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,840 Speaker 1: Kim Martin the previous hospital records on Lucas Hernandez, a 505 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 1: little five year old boy. Yeah, definitely old bruising. Um, 506 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: always an excuse for why they're there, Uh, some vomiting, 507 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: you know, for whatever reason. Um. I won't get into 508 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 1: the autopsy yet, but it will be interesting to see 509 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,479 Speaker 1: what comes out of that, you know, right, we don't 510 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: have the autopsy yet, but when we do it, actually, 511 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 1: it really depends a lot on how skeletonized this child's 512 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:12,400 Speaker 1: body was. When David Marshburn first got out and went 513 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: out on the bridge and looked down, he thinks, he 514 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 1: tells me, he thinks he saw the top of Lucas's head, 515 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:25,720 Speaker 1: but he couldn't really tell because, um, Lucas is dark 516 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: brown hair had been bleached white by being out in 517 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: the elements for so long. It just I just can 518 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,959 Speaker 1: hardly put the words in my mouth about a five 519 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 1: year old child being tossed out like trash over a 520 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 1: bridge to lay there in the sun and rot and 521 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: this case languish. No one ever knew would know what 522 00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:00,840 Speaker 1: happened to Lucas until David marshburn got a old of 523 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 1: Emily Glass. Listen, so where do you want to go? 524 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: You are not gonna see him, I promise you. I'm 525 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: not gonna let you do. You don't know where exactly 526 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 1: it's at. I just know it's in key cha cha? 527 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: Well how do we get a keycha? And stories of 528 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:36,239 Speaker 1: you so direct men to looking for it? All right, 529 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,839 Speaker 1: So if I leave out of here, which way I go? 530 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 1: Listen to the right. Okay, you're gonna be Okay, You're 531 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:50,279 Speaker 1: you're not, You're not, You're it's gonna be so your 532 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,359 Speaker 1: your life is gonna change so much and be so relieved. 533 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,919 Speaker 1: Then what I told you was the truth and how 534 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: everything's gonna happen because you're not a bad person. The 535 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: body of little Lucas was found twenty miles away from Wichita. 536 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,760 Speaker 1: That's um quite a distance for her to have driven 537 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 1: severely decomposed. It had been under a bridge for quite 538 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: a while when it was first spotted. It was, according 539 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 1: to police, unidentifiable. It was under a bridge um in 540 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 1: a very obscure area. David Marshburne described for me where 541 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 1: the body was found. Where was that it was straight 542 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:42,800 Speaker 1: from her house where they live. Uh, several miles north 543 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: um and it was on a desolate road, all gravel 544 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:53,320 Speaker 1: roads out there there. There's there's really nothing but formal 545 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 1: land out there, so you know, it was it was. 546 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 1: It's just empty out there. I couldn't believe she would 547 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,360 Speaker 1: even know that that was out there unless she just 548 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 1: happened to run up on it. That's how a lot 549 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 1: of people get get away, or how how a body 550 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: is because they don't go to the norm where they 551 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,799 Speaker 1: where they know the area and stuff. So that's how 552 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:26,799 Speaker 1: it's that's how they get away with it for so 553 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 1: long as because they don't go where they normally. Normally, 554 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: when someone kills someone, they'll take them out to where 555 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,319 Speaker 1: they know the area. But she just happened to go 556 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: where she didn't even know that area. Well, I think 557 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 1: you're you're right. I agree with about of that, David 558 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 1: Marshbarn Because to to give an example, Scott Peterson murders 559 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: Lacy and his unborn child Connor, where does he dump 560 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,439 Speaker 1: the bodies? He dumps the bodies in San Francisco Bay, 561 00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:00,120 Speaker 1: where he goes fishing. That's familiar territory to him. Where 562 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 1: does top mom Casey Anthony Um dispose of her daughter, 563 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 1: Kelly's body ten houses down from the Anthony home, behind 564 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 1: a school where she used to go and hang out 565 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 1: with her little uh teen friends. That's where her body. 566 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 1: Kelly's body was found. It's an area with which she 567 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,800 Speaker 1: was familiar. This is the part where I disagree, David Marshburn. 568 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 1: We might not know the answer yet, but this area 569 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,959 Speaker 1: has to be of some significance to her. She had 570 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 1: to know about it. I mean, somebody puts you in 571 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:40,239 Speaker 1: a car Vincent Hill and says, okay, dispose of a body. 572 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: You have to know this area existed. You just don't 573 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:48,279 Speaker 1: go drive two hours and suddenly find an isolated bridge 574 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 1: to to dispose of a body. Yeah. One of the 575 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,720 Speaker 1: things to keep in mind, nobody wants to drive around 576 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,319 Speaker 1: that long with the body in their car. And keep 577 00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:00,000 Speaker 1: in mind too, she admitted to investigators that just before 578 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 1: or this, she had smoked a bunch of marijuana. So 579 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,440 Speaker 1: this may have been a place she knew, because maybe 580 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 1: she had gotten drugs in the area before. But I 581 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 1: think you're you're spot on to say that this is 582 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 1: an area that she knew, because no one wants to 583 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,640 Speaker 1: drive around that long with the body in the car. 584 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 1: What about it. Kim Martin with Missing Pieces Network has 585 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,840 Speaker 1: been trying to find Lucas for all these months. What 586 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:26,120 Speaker 1: possible significance could this bridge, this area have for the 587 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,760 Speaker 1: stepmother Emily Glass. None that I've been able to find 588 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 1: so far. Um. Of course we've looked into her relatives 589 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,799 Speaker 1: and who might live where, you know, and I'm sure 590 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,719 Speaker 1: there's relatives that I don't know about or friends that 591 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,279 Speaker 1: live out there, But it's an odd location. Again, I 592 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,399 Speaker 1: think everybody thought it was going to be some place 593 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,719 Speaker 1: that she was familiar with. Yeah, and that's just it. 594 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: And it's like you said, she wouldn't want to drive 595 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,560 Speaker 1: around with the body in your car. She had a 596 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,800 Speaker 1: restricted license, so technically she wasn't supposed to be driving 597 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:05,560 Speaker 1: anywhere except to work, school, church or medical appointment. Yeah, 598 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:07,440 Speaker 1: I don't know why. I don't know how she came up. Well, 599 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:11,760 Speaker 1: here's another issue I don't understand, as she Willcott juvenile 600 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 1: judge found our child crime watch dot com. If I'm right, 601 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,800 Speaker 1: she was the one with Lucas when you've had bruises before. 602 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 1: She is the one who leads police to his body, Well, 603 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,719 Speaker 1: leads David Marshburn pa I to his body. She's the 604 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 1: one who was alone with him at the time he died. 605 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,840 Speaker 1: She is the one who reported him quote missing. That's 606 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: a lie. What are we waiting on, Ashley? Well, remember, Nancy, 607 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:41,680 Speaker 1: this is the case, and I know you remember. But 608 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:46,319 Speaker 1: for listeners, the stepmother was recently acquitted of child endangerment 609 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,920 Speaker 1: after she smoked pot before driving with her one year 610 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,280 Speaker 1: old in her car. So I believe that the prosecution 611 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 1: is being exceedingly cautious to make certain they have all 612 00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:58,600 Speaker 1: their ducks in a row, they have all of the 613 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 1: evidence ready. I think they're also waiting for the autopsy 614 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 1: report to determine cause of death to this child before charges. 615 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,800 Speaker 1: To David Marshburn, you spent more time with Emily Glass 616 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 1: than anyone else outside of Lucas's dad. Do you think 617 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:22,360 Speaker 1: that she will confess to how Lucas really died? The 618 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,319 Speaker 1: autopsy is going up to tell the truth. I mean, 619 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,279 Speaker 1: she you canna understand now, I gave her an out, 620 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 1: but I gave her will not coincide with that autopsy. 621 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,759 Speaker 1: That's why I say when I'm telling her she's a 622 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 1: good person and and I'm giving her, you know, basically 623 00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 1: that out. I'm also having her talk so that will 624 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:54,439 Speaker 1: counteract what I was what that out I was given her. 625 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 1: That's why, you know a lot of people say, well, God, 626 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:03,399 Speaker 1: he really believes and he likes her, and he's doing 627 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 1: all this stuff. I'm letting her bury herself, basically, and 628 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:11,920 Speaker 1: that's just part of the part of the way we 629 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 1: do these things. And you know, I just, uh, all times, 630 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,120 Speaker 1: she's gonna tell the truth. I did in in some 631 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:26,359 Speaker 1: of this. I talked to her about, you know, the autopsy, 632 00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:30,440 Speaker 1: and I basically said, unless there's a bullet hole, there's 633 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:34,040 Speaker 1: not gonna be anything there for and autopsy. But little 634 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,880 Speaker 1: did she knows, I know that's not true. Let me 635 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,440 Speaker 1: ask you a difficult question, David Marshburn. You saw the 636 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:49,400 Speaker 1: body five year old Lucas. How much tissue, skin, muscle 637 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:55,720 Speaker 1: is left off Lucas. I'm trying to figure out whether 638 00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,719 Speaker 1: they will be able to even determine a cause of 639 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,319 Speaker 1: death if there's enough of his body left for that. 640 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,520 Speaker 1: I was amazed how much was left. Now. I didn't 641 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:08,680 Speaker 1: want to go into gruesome details or anything, but there 642 00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,480 Speaker 1: was quite a bit after being out there for that long. 643 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,359 Speaker 1: But I think the weather played a part in that. 644 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,880 Speaker 1: In February, when they had a real, real bad coat 645 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:23,560 Speaker 1: storm the week of him missing, after she had laid 646 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:28,880 Speaker 1: him out there, and it kind of um preserved his body, 647 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,000 Speaker 1: which was if we if we would have found him 648 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,200 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks later, there'd be nothing there. Well, 649 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,040 Speaker 1: you know, I always say Dr Brian Russell, host of 650 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,480 Speaker 1: Investigation Discoveries Fatal vows, if you don't know a horse, 651 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,840 Speaker 1: look at his track record. If we're trying to figure 652 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,799 Speaker 1: out how Lucas was killed, you know, I think a 653 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,320 Speaker 1: number of things. The first is, I'm here in Kansas, 654 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,480 Speaker 1: and I can tell you that it has not gotten 655 00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,239 Speaker 1: really hot here until the last couple of weeks, and 656 00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:59,840 Speaker 1: so I think that David is correct that the weather 657 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,839 Speaker 1: probably helped to preserve the body better than it would 658 00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:06,120 Speaker 1: have been preserved had it been found another couple of 659 00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:10,520 Speaker 1: weeks from now. I also agree with you that, uh, 660 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,840 Speaker 1: some kind of blunt force trauma to the skull, for example, 661 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,520 Speaker 1: is one of the things that we know from previous 662 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,640 Speaker 1: cases that actually can be found and proven by medical 663 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,880 Speaker 1: examiners even years later, even with an exhumed body, like 664 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:30,640 Speaker 1: we saw happen in the Drew Peterson case in Illinois. 665 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,239 Speaker 1: I also think that it is highly likely that there 666 00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,560 Speaker 1: is a connection between Emily Glass and the location where 667 00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,279 Speaker 1: the body was found, in part also because she was 668 00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,759 Speaker 1: able to lead David back there. You know, they didn't 669 00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,040 Speaker 1: have to drive around for days trying to find this place. 670 00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 1: She was able to get him back there fairly quickly. 671 00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:51,640 Speaker 1: And I I the last thing I'll say here is 672 00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,920 Speaker 1: I think he did a masterful job of playing into 673 00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,760 Speaker 1: He did a textbook illustration of playing to the narcissism 674 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,080 Speaker 1: of the sociopath. Were you feed into the way in 675 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,880 Speaker 1: which they want to see themselves. I'm still a good person. 676 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:08,479 Speaker 1: It's not going to be that bad. I'm gonna still 677 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,040 Speaker 1: be okay. You know that's interesting, Dr Brian Russell. The 678 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:16,520 Speaker 1: way he led her down the garden path, as he 679 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:21,360 Speaker 1: should have. He had access, He got access to Emily 680 00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,960 Speaker 1: Glass all on his own, in a way police never 681 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:29,719 Speaker 1: could have, and she went right along with it. I 682 00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:32,319 Speaker 1: don't understand, David Marshburne, how you got her in the 683 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:37,160 Speaker 1: car to start If it's that southern him, I guess, 684 00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:43,440 Speaker 1: but I had to work from you know, I'm an outsider. 685 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,080 Speaker 1: I'm from my estate. You know that kind of distance 686 00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:52,719 Speaker 1: everything as well in her mind having Jonathan Jonathan was 687 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:57,440 Speaker 1: going to be the key to get to her and 688 00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,080 Speaker 1: and to get to Jonathan. I basically had to of 689 00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:04,120 Speaker 1: the grandmother, Hey, if he doesn't call me and doesn't 690 00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:07,880 Speaker 1: want me to come out there, then he doesn't want 691 00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,000 Speaker 1: his son famil Because I do have a good track record. 692 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,040 Speaker 1: Why would you go with someone that doesn't versus someone 693 00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,040 Speaker 1: who has a really good track record. So that was 694 00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:22,080 Speaker 1: indicator that Jonathan was pretty much on the up and up. 695 00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:26,359 Speaker 1: And you know, that's just how I had to get 696 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,880 Speaker 1: to him. And when we're talking about Jonathan, we're talking 697 00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:34,000 Speaker 1: about Lucas's biological dad with whom he was living, So 698 00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,480 Speaker 1: you got the dad on board. And for her to 699 00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,920 Speaker 1: keep up the pretense that she was innocent, I guess 700 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:41,879 Speaker 1: she felt she had to get in the car and 701 00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:44,200 Speaker 1: go with you, David Well. I told her that was 702 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:50,120 Speaker 1: part of the healing process, part of the um sympathy 703 00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,320 Speaker 1: and empathy that everyone would have. It was all about 704 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,960 Speaker 1: what she looked like in the public. Guys, I want 705 00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,600 Speaker 1: you to listen to what I considered to be the 706 00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:06,960 Speaker 1: most critical secret recording. Listen. I'm so sorry for I. Hell, 707 00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:11,440 Speaker 1: it's okay. The only thing you can do my hair 708 00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:15,480 Speaker 1: is move forward. And doing my hair right. Where's the 709 00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:27,479 Speaker 1: I did a little get so wrong? I didn't wrong, 710 00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:38,560 Speaker 1: got honest to David Marshburne, what is she saying there? 711 00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:45,720 Speaker 1: She's saying that, you know, she did Lucas Rome and 712 00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:50,680 Speaker 1: and then at the very very end, finally it breaks 713 00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:55,600 Speaker 1: through to to her mental state and everything that's to 714 00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:59,480 Speaker 1: god honest truth. I mean, she finally come out all 715 00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:04,040 Speaker 1: the wayan and it's you know, she said two important things. 716 00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:08,120 Speaker 1: I did Lucas so wrong. That's the God's honest truth. 717 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,880 Speaker 1: Nancy Glass is again a free woman. That's after spending 718 00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,880 Speaker 1: about four days in jail on an obstruction charge for 719 00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:18,879 Speaker 1: allegedly lying to police about Lucas. After Wichita detectives met 720 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:22,799 Speaker 1: with prosecutors Wednesday afternoon, District Attorney Mark Bennett emerged from 721 00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,399 Speaker 1: his office and surprise reporters announcing there would be no 722 00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:30,080 Speaker 1: charges against Emily Glass for now, at least not until 723 00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,239 Speaker 1: they see the full results of the autopsy and they 724 00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:37,320 Speaker 1: follow up on new investigative leads. The obstruction charge filed 725 00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,600 Speaker 1: against the step mom has been dropped, and she was 726 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,800 Speaker 1: released from jail Soon after the district Attorney's announcement. The 727 00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:47,560 Speaker 1: jail website says, Glass has been released without having to 728 00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,680 Speaker 1: post any bonds, since, of course she's not facing any 729 00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:56,040 Speaker 1: current charges. All we can do now is seek justice 730 00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:01,200 Speaker 1: with me is David Marshburne, the Private Eye, is being 731 00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:09,560 Speaker 1: lauded today for having the wherewithal to finagle to wrangle 732 00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:16,560 Speaker 1: little Lucas's stepmother into the car, driving for hours and hours, 733 00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,560 Speaker 1: managing to keep up conversation with her and reel her 734 00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:25,480 Speaker 1: in until the case was solved. Was it solved the 735 00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:30,040 Speaker 1: way we wanted? No, because what we wanted was Lucas 736 00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:36,160 Speaker 1: to be alive and happy. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend. 737 00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:44,000 Speaker 1: There's a brand new website causing a lot of trouble 738 00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,480 Speaker 1: for people with something to hide. Have you ever had 739 00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:50,360 Speaker 1: a bad feeling about somebody may be suspected your partners cheating, 740 00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,760 Speaker 1: may be worried about your online reputation. If you answer 741 00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:58,760 Speaker 1: yes to any of those questions, you may need truth Finder. 742 00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:05,440 Speaker 1: Public records are only recently easily available online. Before websites 743 00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:07,880 Speaker 1: like truth Finder, you most likely have to visit a 744 00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:11,160 Speaker 1: courthouse to get that information. Now it's as simple as 745 00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:14,960 Speaker 1: entering a name. 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