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Speaker 1: What's that at bed? It's spooky, Hey, Joky, I'm really

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Speaker 1: sure it's dead. It's coming this way.

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Speaker 2: Wait a minute, I'm yours.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nandas.

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Speaker 3: Please Hey boo, it's me Raz and welcome to Ghosted

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Speaker 3: by Raz Hernandez, the podcast where I talk to people

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Speaker 3: that I like about things that make.

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Speaker 1: Me go bitch, there's no way that's true. Before I

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Speaker 1: get into my conversation that I had with psychic medium

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Speaker 1: Logan Taylor, I want to tell you that I'm going

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Speaker 1: on the road. Baby. I'm gonna come see you because

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Speaker 1: I'm doing stand up and I'm gonna be headlining a

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Speaker 1: couple of different venues. And then don't worry, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be adding more dates as time goes on. But

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Speaker 1: this is kind of my first time going out there

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Speaker 1: on the road by myself, and so I'm going to

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Speaker 1: be headlining at Stonewall in New York City Legendary Oh

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Speaker 1: my God. That is on the eighth of November as

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Speaker 1: part of the New York Comedy Festival. I will be

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Speaker 1: on the thirtieth of November in Seattle at the Hereafter

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Speaker 1: on the first of December, I'm packing my passport and

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Speaker 1: going to Vancouver, BC to the Biltmore and then on

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Speaker 1: the third of December, I'm going to Portland at Helium

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Speaker 1: Comedy Club. So you can get your tickets on those

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Speaker 1: venues websites or go to the link in my bio

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Speaker 1: on Instagram and you can get them there. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: you know, at the top of the show today, I

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Speaker 1: did say something about you know, sometimes I get a

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Speaker 1: little skeptical. People tell me things that are of the

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Speaker 1: paranormal nature, and I'm like, come on, there's no way

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Speaker 1: I am skeptical. I am not a non believer. I

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Speaker 1: am merely a human. I do not have all the answers.

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Speaker 1: I would love to believe that there is more out there.

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Speaker 1: Every once in a while I get little glimpses of

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Speaker 1: things that make me believe that there could be more

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Speaker 1: than what we see with the naked eye. One topic

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Speaker 1: that really really gets my skepticism going is the topic

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Speaker 1: of psychics. If you listen to this show, you've heard

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Speaker 1: me talk a lot about psychics over the years. My

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Speaker 1: opinions have changed a couple years ago or so, and

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Speaker 1: I'm constantly forming new opinions and thoughts and theories. But

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Speaker 1: after working with three psychics, very closely on the television

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Speaker 1: show Living for the Dead, which you can start streaming

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Speaker 1: on Hulu the eighteenth of October. I will say that

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Speaker 1: experience my opinions of psychics really hasn't changed, and I

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Speaker 1: am definitely pro psychics, at least the idea of psychics,

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Speaker 1: the concept of them. I'm not gonna say just because

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Speaker 1: someone's a psychic, I one hundred percent believe that they're

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Speaker 1: not trying to like rip you off or you know,

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Speaker 1: get money out of you or whatever. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but some of my thoughts on psychics are that I

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Speaker 1: definitely think that it's an ability that is possible. I

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Speaker 1: think everybody has the ability. I think some people have

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Speaker 1: it stronger than others. I believe that psychics are allowed

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Speaker 1: to be wrong. I think they should be able to

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Speaker 1: not always get everything right. They are human beings. They

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Speaker 1: have this magic power that perhaps we all have, but

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Speaker 1: they just are really in tune with it. They're not gods.

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Speaker 1: So you know, anytime someone goes to a psychic looking

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Speaker 1: for all the answers to the problems, I I'm not

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Speaker 1: nuts about that. And you know, people ask me to

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Speaker 1: recommend psychics. I don't. I don't know what to tell

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Speaker 1: you in that situation, you just maybe follow your own

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Speaker 1: intuition of which psychic feels right to you. But the

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Speaker 1: psychics that I worked with on the show, I definitely

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Speaker 1: saw each and every one of them at various points

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Speaker 1: show their gifts. And I'm someone that I need a

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Speaker 1: second opinion just because the psychic says something, I'm like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna jot that one down. You know, I'm a

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Speaker 1: detective over here with the paranormal. I gotta I gotta

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Speaker 1: ask some more questions. I gotta try out a couple

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Speaker 1: of different things.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes when we would investigate together, I would consult some

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Speaker 1: of the technology or do some more research or interview

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Speaker 1: people that might know the answers to what the psychic said.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean I totally had confirmation with these

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Speaker 1: three psychics. They're all really incredible. I think when you

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Speaker 1: watch the television show, you're going to see, first of all,

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Speaker 1: it's a show that is very different than what you've

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Speaker 1: seen when it comes to ghost hunting shows for a

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Speaker 1: lot of reasons. I mean, it is an all queer cast.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, I just want to say, I'm

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Speaker 1: dedicating my whole month to this show, but I want

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Speaker 1: people to see it and to talk about it and

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Speaker 1: to hear about it, because if we want shows like this,

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Speaker 1: shows that are doing stuff differently, shows with all queer casts,

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Speaker 1: paranormal shows, if we want any of this stuff, people

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Speaker 1: need to watch it and people you know, need to

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Speaker 1: like it, which I strongly believe you will if you

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Speaker 1: do watch it, So please tell your friends spread the word.

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Speaker 1: When you watch the show, you will see us helping

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Speaker 1: the people that are in these situations where their lives

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Speaker 1: are being strongly affected by ghosts or unexplained phenomenal and

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Speaker 1: we go in there with a mission, and we definitely

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Speaker 1: do a lot of our due diligence, whether you see

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Speaker 1: it in the episode or not. I think particularly like

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Speaker 1: me and Alex, for example, we really like the technical

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Speaker 1: side of it. We like to get as many different

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Speaker 1: concrete answers as we can. Then there's the three psychics

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Speaker 1: that use various different ways of getting to the bottom

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Speaker 1: of it by using their intuitions. We spent so many

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Speaker 1: hours and days in each one of these investigations. But

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Speaker 1: I promise you, as the one that's the skeptic and

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Speaker 1: somebody that has really dedicated my life to this stuff.

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Speaker 1: I promise you. We are trying so many different techniques

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Speaker 1: and those were grueling hours getting to where we end

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Speaker 1: up by the end of the episode. So today I

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Speaker 1: get to talk to Logan Taylor, who is our medium,

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Speaker 1: though you know, we do have a few people with

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Speaker 1: different mediums abilities psychic abilities, but Logan is particularly amazing

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Speaker 1: at tuning in to people that have passed to the

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Speaker 1: other side, and it's incredible. You're gonna fall in love

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Speaker 1: with him. He's really got something special, and I get

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Speaker 1: to talk to him today. So I hope you enjoyed

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Speaker 1: this conversation with Logan Taylor and with the show. I'm

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Speaker 1: getting a message. The spirits are telling me that someone

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Speaker 1: is in the room, somebody with the initials l T.

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Speaker 1: Is it Liv Tyler, Lily Tomlin Now Logan Taylor. Oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, Hi, hello, Logan, how are you.

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Speaker 2: I'm so glad to be here. This is a dream

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Speaker 2: come true. I'm just honored. I feel starstruck.

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Speaker 1: You feel starstruck, please, And.

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Speaker 2: I spent two months on the road with you.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, you silly goose.

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Speaker 2: I'm nothing if I'm not charming.

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Speaker 1: Roz, you were about to say something before we start

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Speaker 1: a recording, and I said, save it. What were you

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Speaker 1: gonna say?

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say that. Ever since we announced being

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Speaker 2: on the show, everybody's been so excited. But the biggest

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Speaker 2: reaction I've gotten from people is that, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: you're doing a show with Roz Hernandez and it's people

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Speaker 2: from here Mcmenville. You know people who you know? We're

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Speaker 2: just country folks. I love it. You are a global phenomenon, babe.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I made my way to Mcminville, Tennessee.

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Speaker 2: I mean you made the big time.

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Speaker 1: Holy shit. Well that is something that we should talk about,

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Speaker 1: is that you are Mcminville, Tennessee's finest and now you're

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Speaker 1: a television star. What's been going through your mind? How

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Speaker 1: do you feel about that?

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Speaker 2: I'm wondering if I'm going to get ran out of town,

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Speaker 2: but I'm excited about it and I'm ready for it.

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Speaker 1: Why do you say that? Is it hard to be

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Speaker 1: a psychic and queer and all that? And Tennessee I

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Speaker 1: live in.

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Speaker 2: A really small town where there are more churches than

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Speaker 2: there are restaurants, and people were more freaked out by

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Speaker 2: the whole psychic medium thing than they were a by

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Speaker 2: the gay thing. I've had preachers here preach sermons about

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Speaker 2: me being evil and all this stuff. I have people

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Speaker 2: dodged me in the grocery store all the.

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Speaker 1: Time, and really yeah, yeah, but I have a lot

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Speaker 1: of people who know.

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Speaker 2: Me and know that once they get to know me

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Speaker 2: or get a reading themselves, they're like, oh, he's not

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Speaker 2: making the table levitate and rolling his eyes back in

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Speaker 2: his head and stuff. That's just not my style. But

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Speaker 2: I don't know, I've embraced it, and being on the

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Speaker 2: show actually helped me sort of see a full version

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Speaker 2: of mine. So it was really good.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's sad, but it's just true. And I've

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Speaker 1: talked to many people from smaller towns about this. Once

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Speaker 1: you're on a TV show, all of a sudden, these

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Speaker 1: people don't care about their things. Yeah you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying. Like they're just like, I don't like queer

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Speaker 1: people or whatever. And then they're like, oh, but this

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Speaker 1: one's on TV. Oh can I have a picture with you? Like,

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Speaker 1: fuck off?

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Speaker 2: No, I'm hoping it's that reaction. I think it will

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Speaker 2: be because I'm proud of it. I love the show.

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Speaker 1: Well, I want to talk about the show, but first

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about what you do and who

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Speaker 1: you are and all of this. So you're the medium

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Speaker 1: of the group. Yes, tell me about that. When did

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Speaker 1: that start for you? What was the first moment you

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Speaker 1: said I see dead people.

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Speaker 2: I was really actually young, and it runs in my family.

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Speaker 2: It's a generational thing, so my great great grandmother was

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Speaker 2: very into it, and all of my family has had

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Speaker 2: psychics through the line, so I was familiar with it.

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Speaker 2: But I remember distinctively being like ten or eleven years old,

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Speaker 2: and I have twin sisters who are much younger than me,

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Speaker 2: and they were just starting to walk. And I was

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Speaker 2: walking through my bedroom at the time in my childhood home,

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Speaker 2: and a little girl ran by me and she left

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Speaker 2: a little hamprint on my leg, like there was like

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Speaker 2: a little you know, And I thought it was one

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Speaker 2: of the twins, and I said, oh, sorry, babe. And

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Speaker 2: I look at the top of the stairs and they're

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Speaker 2: both up there. And that was the first real apparition

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Speaker 2: that I saw and felt was human.

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Speaker 1: Who the hell was that?

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Speaker 2: I don't know, I still do this day, don't know.

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Speaker 2: I didn't investigate. I didn't see if anybody died in

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Speaker 2: the house before we lived there. I did not know,

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Speaker 2: but that was it changed everything for me. I tell

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Speaker 2: people all the time that this is crazy, and it's

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Speaker 2: like I myself am a skeptic, so I feel like

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Speaker 2: I have to know it and sense it for it

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Speaker 2: to be ture. I've been trying to get out of

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Speaker 2: this business all these years because, like I said, I

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Speaker 2: felt judged by people here, you know. But I'm never

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Speaker 2: gonna get out of this. I never expected to be

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Speaker 2: a professional psychic. I never expected that.

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Speaker 1: That little girl, she's lucky, shouldn't do that to me.

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Speaker 1: I've got cat like reflexes. I would have grabbed her

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Speaker 1: wrist and put it like behind her back, and I

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Speaker 1: would have said, touch me again.

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Speaker 2: You had have whipped her with that ponytail.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I would have. You already know. So when you

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Speaker 1: say that your family also were psychics, were you like

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Speaker 1: raised with this idea that that's just like a thing

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Speaker 1: that people are or what.

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Speaker 2: No, it was very it was very sort of hidden

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Speaker 2: and discreete. My grandfather was a deacon in the church.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he was just the amount of psychic ability.

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Speaker 2: My great grandfather would have and just not even really

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Speaker 2: talk about it. Now. His mom was very open. I

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Speaker 2: have journals and articles of her stuff that she would

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Speaker 2: write about her visions and her encounters. And she was

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Speaker 2: very into herbs and everything. But we actually have it.

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Speaker 2: Sounds kind of corny, but there's a big rock or

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Speaker 2: a crystal that my great great grandmother discovered. I live

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Speaker 2: on my family farm. It's a three hundred acre farm.

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Speaker 2: My whole family lives here. And she discovered this geo

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Speaker 2: back in the thirties, and I guess she blessed it.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what she did to it. But we all,

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Speaker 2: all the psychics who are sort of outwardly psychic, my

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Speaker 2: aunt being the first, we get little chunks of a

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Speaker 2: crystal that we get to keep around us when we

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Speaker 2: do investigate or we do readings or things like that,

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Speaker 2: and you wear it. I wear it.

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Speaker 1: You wear it on the show. Yeah, you said she

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Speaker 1: was into herbs. Are you into herbs?

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Speaker 2: Oh my god. I love Paulo Santo. I love lavender.

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Speaker 2: I love a good sage sash. I love it all.

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Speaker 1: Are you like witchy?

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Speaker 2: I mean I'd wearn't like my Paulo Santo. I have

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Speaker 2: my crystals. I do the pendul stuff. I more burning

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Speaker 2: that stuff so it smells good and like it makes

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Speaker 2: it feel light in my house, you know, but I

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Speaker 2: wish I was more. I have friends and like teachers

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Speaker 2: who were like, their house is full of jars of herbs,

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Speaker 2: and like it's typical what you'd see in an old

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Speaker 2: like Mountain Mountain witch house. But I just I don't

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Speaker 2: know if I'm smart enough for all that.

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Speaker 1: So at what point did you start giving readings to people?

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Speaker 1: At what point were you like, Okay, I think I

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Speaker 1: could do this and charge people.

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Speaker 2: I remember two stories specifically before I was sixteen, and

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Speaker 2: my friend and I were swimming in my pool and

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Speaker 2: I felt this. I didn't know if she had lost

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Speaker 2: her mom. It wasn't something she talked about. And her

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Speaker 2: mom came through just naturally. We were just talking and

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Speaker 2: she was so blown away by she was crying and

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Speaker 2: it was just, like I said, still casual. And then

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Speaker 2: right after high school, my friends would get me to

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Speaker 2: like go to cemeteries and they'd be like, I'd say,

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Speaker 2: you know a name, I saw some random abstract name,

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Speaker 2: and they would have me go find the you know,

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Speaker 2: they would take me somewhere where they they played games

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Speaker 2: with me.

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Speaker 1: Basically that's a fun game.

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Speaker 2: I know it was fun, but it was like I

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Speaker 2: was like, okay, there's something to this. My cousin would

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Speaker 2: take me to parties in like literally a barn or

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Speaker 2: a shack behind somebody's house, and I read all his

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Speaker 2: friends and like they'd be It was just it seemed

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Speaker 2: like it was something I had to do. So I

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Speaker 2: was eighteen when I started reading professionally, and so now

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Speaker 2: I've been doing it for ten years. Like I said,

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Speaker 2: never thought i'd say.

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Speaker 1: That, But how much do you do it? Like walk

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Speaker 1: me through your psychic life?

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Speaker 2: I read every weekday.

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Speaker 1: Same people are like, do you have a lot of

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Speaker 1: repeat customers?

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Speaker 2: I do have a lot of repeat customers, but it's

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Speaker 2: actually surprisingly in all as many people from here, it's

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Speaker 2: people from all over the world. When I'm not doing

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Speaker 2: readings or ghost hunting, I travel around the country and

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Speaker 2: do like little gallery readings at little metaphysical shops and

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Speaker 2: meet a lot of people. That way.

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Speaker 1: You make people cry. I've seen you make peace people cry.

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Speaker 1: Now does that secretly feel a little bit good?

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Speaker 2: Are you? Like? Yeah? When they cry, I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 2: I did a good job. I know. If somebody's bawling

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Speaker 2: their eyes out in the radio, I'm like, okay, I

290
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Speaker 2: did something right, but it's healing. It's good. I have

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Speaker 2: a hard time crying. I really when people can cry

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Speaker 2: and let out those emotions, I love it.

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Speaker 1: It's so interesting because it's like the opposite of what

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Speaker 1: I try to do. If people started crying, I would

295
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Speaker 1: be doing a horrible job at my job. But when

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Speaker 1: people start crying for you, it's like you did You're

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Speaker 1: killing now that all we're so good together. I've said

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Speaker 1: this before, but I really think that psychics are similar

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Speaker 1: to comedians totally. You know, I have a lot of

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Speaker 1: thoughts of psychics, and I definitely tend to be more

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Speaker 1: skeptical of psychics. Yes, but to give the benefit of

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Speaker 1: the doubt to psychics, I often compare it to being

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Speaker 1: a comedian or having a sense of humor, where I

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Speaker 1: think that everyone can have a sense of humor. You

305
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Speaker 1: can develop it. Some people are just born with a

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Speaker 1: great sense of humor, And I think that when you

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Speaker 1: start doing it for a living, sometimes you have bad

308
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Speaker 1: days on the job and sometimes you just absolutely slay.

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Speaker 1: And I think that there can be a mix of

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Speaker 1: the both. You can, you know, not every joke lands

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Speaker 1: you can have like a couple of really good zingers

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Speaker 1: in there, but some of them aren't great. Like I

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Speaker 1: think it's you know, when you say a sense of humor,

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Speaker 1: it is a sense, you know, the sixth sense. I

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Speaker 1: think it's like something within people that is human, even

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Speaker 1: though it seems superhuman or whatever. It's like a magical power.

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Speaker 1: But I do think that as a human you can

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Speaker 1: have good days, you can have bad days. And as

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Speaker 1: I always say, if a psychic was right one hundred

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Speaker 1: percent of the time, they would be a god. We

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Speaker 1: would just worship them and go to them for every answer.

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Speaker 2: World. M well, we don't get to cheat, and that's

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Speaker 2: a lot of things when people do want to put

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Speaker 2: you to the test. A really famous psychic I can't

325
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Speaker 2: remember who it was, said we have to have the

326
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Speaker 2: human experience like everybody else. So people will be like,

327
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Speaker 2: what's the lottery number? Tell me x Y and Zane.

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Speaker 2: It's like, well, you know, I don't. I can't tell

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Speaker 2: you that that's that's your experience, but I will tell

330
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Speaker 2: you everybody's intuitive. You're right, it's a it's a born trait.

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Speaker 2: We all have intuition. It protects us and keeps us safe.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's our conscience. But I feel like to

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Speaker 2: paint this picture that it's all perfect all the time

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Speaker 2: is unrealistic, and I don't like. That's why I said,

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Speaker 2: i'm myself. I'm skeptical because I have to be really

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Speaker 2: mindful of if I'm being paranoid or if I'm having

337
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Speaker 2: a vision, you know what I mean. I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: just like I have to sort of understand that I'm

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Speaker 2: a human too, and I had to release that expectation

340
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Speaker 2: a long time ago that I had to be right

341
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Speaker 2: one hundred percent of the time where I had to

342
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Speaker 2: make every single person cry. I had to realize that

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Speaker 2: everybody's experience is for them. I tell my clients, You're

344
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Speaker 2: not here by coincidence, and neither am I. So let's

345
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Speaker 2: just ride this way together and it you know, people

346
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Speaker 2: seem to love it.

347
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Speaker 1: So this always feels like such a demeaning question. But

348
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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Okay, what are your abilities?

349
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Speaker 1: Can you hear? Can you smell? Can you taste?

350
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Speaker 2: So when I was a kid, I could see full

351
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Speaker 2: body apparitions like you like you talk about imaginary friends

352
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Speaker 2: big time. And the older I got, and it was

353
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Speaker 2: even like that when I first started reading. But the

354
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Speaker 2: older I've gotten and lived more life it's like it's

355
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Speaker 2: become more of a feeling. I see it in my

356
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Speaker 2: third eye, I see it sort of in my brain,

357
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Speaker 2: and I feel it that way. A lot of times

358
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Speaker 2: I'm connecting with souls or loved ones. But also I

359
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Speaker 2: will receive messages just for that person, So I can't

360
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Speaker 2: call my it is a psychic medium, because I guess

361
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Speaker 2: the term psychic is just past present, future intuiting type stuff,

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Speaker 2: and then a medium, I guess you would consider somebody

363
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Speaker 2: who interacts with spirits. And so I do a little

364
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Speaker 2: bit of all of it.

365
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Speaker 1: But that's why, like when I think about if this

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Speaker 1: kind of a thing is real or not, and I

367
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Speaker 1: talked to psychics, and I'm like, so there was a

368
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Speaker 1: time when you were a child and you started just

369
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Speaker 1: seeing dead people. I mean, that sounds horrible. Yeah, how

370
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Speaker 1: do you deal with that? I mean, was that tough?

371
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Speaker 2: Luckily I had my aunt who was very supportive, and

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Speaker 2: you know, when I couldn't talk to mom about it,

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Speaker 2: I would talk to my aunt about it. I have

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Speaker 2: this one specific memory being in church and I started

375
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Speaker 2: crying in the middle of church because I a girl

376
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Speaker 2: who was sitting a few rows down. I was little.

377
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Speaker 2: This is when I saw into church, I just started

378
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Speaker 2: crying because I felt like her mom was gonna die

379
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Speaker 2: and I didn't know what and I didn't say anything.

380
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Speaker 2: I was just in the middle of hotda, I know,

381
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Speaker 2: heavy shit. In the next day at school, they now

382
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Speaker 2: and let us know that her mom had passed away

383
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Speaker 2: in a car at the night before, And that was

384
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Speaker 2: the That was the point where I realized it wasn't

385
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Speaker 2: just funning games. I've had a few instances in my

386
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,639
Speaker 2: life and experiences that were so profound, and it was

387
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Speaker 2: just like, this is bigger than just a game. It's

388
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Speaker 2: it's more than that. That was when it felt really

389
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Speaker 2: real and like a responsibility. And so as a kid,

390
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Speaker 2: I luckily did have older family members who I could

391
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Speaker 2: lean on.

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Speaker 1: Do you have those moments where you're like Teresa Caputo

393
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Speaker 1: at the deli and you're like, I'm so sorry to

394
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 1: interrupt you, but I just have to tell you you

395
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Speaker 1: are going to die tomorrow. You tell people like, does

396
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Speaker 1: that happen?

397
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Speaker 2: I tried it. One thing about me, I did try

398
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Speaker 2: to be really particular about what I say, and you know,

399
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Speaker 2: I try not to let people know I know all

400
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 2: their dirty laundry. But like I've been in I've gotten

401
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,440
Speaker 2: pulled over before and given the cop of reading and

402
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,880
Speaker 2: gotten out of the ticket stop. I swear on everything

403
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Speaker 2: I loved years ago. Yeah, it's stuff that all the time,

404
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,639
Speaker 2: but I've gotten to where I don't do it as

405
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:09,120
Speaker 2: much because people usually always have a very gut wrenching reaction,

406
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Speaker 2: and sometimes I'm like, you really didn't sign up for this.

407
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,439
Speaker 2: So I've kind tried to lay off of that as

408
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Speaker 2: much as I can, but sometimes it's just so much

409
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Speaker 2: that I can't help it.

410
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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm getting an idea for myself. Okay, I think

411
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Speaker 1: I'm going to start going up to people in stores

412
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Speaker 1: and just be like, I'm so sorry, this is so weird,

413
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Speaker 1: but I'm a psychic and I just have to let

414
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:39,120
Speaker 1: you know that those pants do not go with your shirt.

415
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I just had to. I had to

416
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Speaker 1: tell you. I think I'm gonna start doing that.

417
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Speaker 2: I'm telling you, I feel like when this is all

418
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Speaker 2: said and done, you're gonna be seeing ghosts like the

419
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Speaker 2: rest of us.

420
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Speaker 1: I've said before, I'm the most psychic in this group.

421
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Speaker 2: You really are.

422
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: I'm so psychic. I have been right so many times

423
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 1: on things, but I'm not a top to dead people

424
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 1: kind of psychic you know people, Yes, I know the

425
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 1: living pretty well. Like, really, what I think it is

426
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 1: is collecting data. And you know, you could easily say

427
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,359
Speaker 1: it's very judgmental or something, but I'll be around a

428
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 1: person sometimes takes longer than others, but I'll be like, Okay,

429
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Speaker 1: I can see that this is the kind of person

430
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Speaker 1: that deals with this in that way, and yeah, this

431
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 1: and that way, and they have this opinion about that.

432
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Speaker 1: So then I'll be like, mmm, I have a feeling

433
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 1: that this person's going to do this or that or what.

434
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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know that it's necessarily psychic.

435
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,880
Speaker 1: I think it's like just collecting data and being really

436
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: observant observant home style, Yeah, very much. I'm a detective.

437
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: That's me as a paranormal investigator. I am a detective,

438
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 1: that's right. So does it feel different when you like,

439
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: how do you know that it's a ghost or like

440
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 1: a deceased person or just a thought in your head?

441
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 1: Or how do you know that that's a ghost that

442
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 1: you see and not just a living person. Do you

443
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 1: ever go and pope someone and be like does my

444
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: finger go through them?

445
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 2: There have been a couple of times in my life

446
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 2: where I have felt that maybe like I was not

447
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 2: I don't want to say going crazy, but there have

448
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 2: been times where I've questioned if this was somebody who

449
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 2: was real or somebody who is you know, a spirit

450
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 2: and I feel like I just got colds for some reason?

451
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 1: Who is that? Is that one of my people?

452
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 2: I will tell you it's like there are so many

453
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 2: times where I feel like I'm losing it, But I

454
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 2: will tell you ghost hunting has been a really good

455
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 2: thing for me because I'm able to sort of decipher

456
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 2: and there are different timelines. You know, people talk about

457
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 2: past lives, so there are so many things when you

458
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 2: interact with spirits, like when we you know, some of

459
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 2: these places that we went to were humongous and had

460
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 2: tons and tons and tons of death, tragedy, et cetera.

461
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 2: So it's like you have to sort of just trust

462
00:24:58,040 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 2: that whatever's coming to you is coming to you for

463
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 2: and I can feel it usually when I'm in places

464
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 2: where I know it's something really really really not good.

465
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm not fully ready for that.

466
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 1: Do you put a wall up or something so that

467
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 1: you don't see bad stuff? Or does it just all

468
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 1: come in.

469
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 2: This is what I tell people people who have hauntings

470
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,400
Speaker 2: or things that have been kind of attaching to them.

471
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 2: They are in control. The living person is in control.

472
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 2: It's so easy to let those thoughts sort of get

473
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,360
Speaker 2: into our heads and mess with us. So as long

474
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 2: as I stay pretty solid. Now, I will say there

475
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 2: are times when and I have my trusty little necklace

476
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 2: that my grandma gave me, but sometimes I feel like

477
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 2: it is a lot now in day to day life,

478
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 2: going to the grocery store and stuff like that. I've

479
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 2: gotten pretty good at shielding that, but sometimes you know

480
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 2: it's too much, and you encounter all kinds of spirits, entities.

481
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,719
Speaker 2: There's all kinds of things that walk the earth if

482
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 2: you believe in all that kind of stuff.

483
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: Something I meant to say at the beginning of the show,

484
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: and please do not tell the others, but you are

485
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 1: my favorite of the cows.

486
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm gonna side text kid real quick

487
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 2: and tell him you told me.

488
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 1: Don't tell the others. I said that the first time

489
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 1: I met you, you had told us all about Bigfoot.

490
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: Can we talk about that? Because I don't get enough

491
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 1: Bigfoot on this show.

492
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 2: So we live near a cave system called Cumbling Caverns.

493
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 2: It reaches all the way up to Canada. It's a

494
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 2: humongous one of the world's largest cave systems. It's always

495
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 2: been believed that there's a lot of Bigfoot stuff and

496
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 2: there's a mountain here. My friend who is my guru,

497
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 2: my spiritual mentor whatever. She lives literally she's the wood

498
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 2: which lives in the middle of the woods. And she's

499
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 2: always told us about her experiences with her furry friends.

500
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 2: She calls them like I said, I'm a skeptic. I

501
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 2: have to believe in stuff. But she's smart. This woman

502
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 2: is just she's had all kinds of insane experiences. So

503
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 2: she's like, I'm gonna show you. She was like, let's

504
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 2: see if something will happen. She has a bluff behind

505
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 2: her house. You kind of have to hide, but there's

506
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 2: a bluff and it's just like literally a mountain, like

507
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 2: wooden mountain. She was like, I'm going to clap and

508
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 2: see if anything happens. And like we were up on

509
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 2: the bluff and she just kind of did a little

510
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 2: rhythmic clap. You know, nothing happened, and she said, wait,

511
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do it again. And she did another rhythmic clap,

512
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 2: and I'm telling you, oh, I get chills all the

513
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 2: way down. It sounded like somebody got a stick and

514
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 2: was tapping on a tree the exact same rhythm. And

515
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 2: I tried every way in the world to think about her.

516
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 2: Did her son or her husband sneak and hide down

517
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 2: the bluff to try to I mean, I was amazed.

518
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 2: And it's not like there were houses downe there. This

519
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 2: is the middle of the forest. I was flabbergasted.

520
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: So they clap, and then the bigfoots are like, we

521
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: live for the bluff.

522
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 2: Clap back. And that was insane, insane, And that was

523
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: only one experience I've had.

524
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: Now, let me ask you this though, when she just

525
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 1: calls them her furry friends. I've seen some documentaries about

526
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: these people they call furries. Could it be a community

527
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 1: in the woods of people that wear those mascot costumes

528
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: and do what they do?

529
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 2: You know, some wild stuff does go on in the South.

530
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 1: It's very possible that that's who was out there. Can

531
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: you imagine some furries with a stick and they you know,

532
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: it could be all right? Next story, Next story.

533
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 2: We were walking. This is me and my friend and

534
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: we were walking through the forest and then I kind

535
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 2: of went by myself a little bit further and it's dark.

536
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 2: I'm out, it's moonlit, beautiful, starry night, and we're kind

537
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 2: of walking and I look out think my friend stops

538
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 2: from me, and I kind of look up and it

539
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 2: was much taller. It was just kind of a black figure,

540
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 2: and it was much taller than me. But I wasn't afraid.

541
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,479
Speaker 2: That's what made me feel so strange. I was very calm.

542
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 2: It was almost like letting me know I was okay.

543
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 2: I'm telling you. It was the weirdest experience of my life.

544
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 2: This is probably the weirdest experience. And I just kind

545
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 2: of sort of backed up. I didn't say anything, and

546
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 2: I turned around and see my friend and I just

547
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 2: walked back to the house. I didn't look back. Sometime

548
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 2: told me not to look back, and I just kept

549
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 2: walking to the house.

550
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: But your friend didn't see it. No, But okay, So,

551
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: was it like a living breathing mammal or like some

552
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: kind of.

553
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 2: It seemed like a living breathing mammal. It didn't seem

554
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 2: like a ghost or an apparition. It was it felt

555
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 2: like an animal. I could feel it breathing, I could

556
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 2: hear it breathing. I'm telling you, it was the wildest

557
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: experience of my whole life.

558
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: But you didn't feel in danger.

559
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 2: No, I felt told. And that's another thing that was

560
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 2: kind of strange, because I knew it wasn't a person.

561
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 2: It was just a tall figure, and I felt really

562
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 2: calm and relaxed. It was almost, I don't want to

563
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 2: say hypnotized, but I felt sort of in a little

564
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 2: bit of a fog. It was today the weirdest thing

565
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 2: I've ever been there. Cool, Yeah, it was cool.

566
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: Okay, going back to psychic stuff. Please what and maybe

567
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: don't answer this, but why do my dead people not

568
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: want anything to do with me? These people have died

569
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: and they have never looked back. I've been to so

570
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: many mediums. These bitches don't want to talk to me.

571
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: They said, bye, leave us alone, don't involve other people.

572
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: We're done.

573
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 2: We have this ongoing thing you and I where I

574
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 2: am so scared to give you a reading just because

575
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 2: you intimidate that. I was like the first time we met,

576
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 2: we had a little bit of a spiritual moment, and

577
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 2: then once I realized what a bad bitch you were

578
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 2: and you weren't taking no shit. It scared me. I

579
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 2: had to set night personally. I can't speak for any

580
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 2: other sack you go on this planet, but for me,

581
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 2: you're the queen, and I bowed down. But it'd be

582
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 2: like Beyonce saying, can you connect me with my angels?

583
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 2: I say, I really can't. I'm just very intimidate to

584
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 2: buy your beauty. That's I could never be like a

585
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 2: quote unquote celebrity psychic. Just people who are very confident

586
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 2: and cheer themselves. You're just you're, like I said, you're

587
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 2: a star. People here have your fan clothes even in Tennessee,

588
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 2: so it's a big deal.

589
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: But stars want to talk to our dead loved ones too. Yeah.

590
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is.

591
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 2: I've tried to read you two or three times and

592
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 2: it's just never worked.

593
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of psychics are so convinced

594
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: that I am like a non believer, which is different

595
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: than a skeptic. I am a believer. I want to

596
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: be able to say I went to a psychic and

597
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,959
Speaker 1: they got me. Good girl.

598
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 2: Knowing you, I know that's the one hundred percent the truth.

599
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: And that's another thing I'll say. I was just at

600
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: a party this weekend and somebody asked me a question

601
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: that I get asked constantly, and I'm just going to

602
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: say this on the podcast for people to hear. They

603
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: asked me, do you know a good psychic to recommend?

604
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: And this is my personal belief on this. I don't

605
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: believe in that because I have sent people to psychics

606
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: that were pretty good for me and bombed that day.

607
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 2: Correct.

608
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: I do think that some psychics have a stronger connection

609
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: with other people, and so I don't really know the

610
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: answer for how to find a good psychic. I don't know,

611
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: save up your money and try a bunch of different ones.

612
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure. But I mean, I've also been

613
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: to psychics that have been so good once and bad

614
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: the next time. Like, I just don't like to put

615
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: that power into a psychic and that expectation. I don't

616
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: think it's fair to the psychic either, that they're going

617
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: to be good. Because they were good for my friend,

618
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: they're going to be good for me.

619
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 2: I will tell you that it's very like it should

620
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 2: be a natural thing. It should be kind of a

621
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 2: discovery thing you discovered on your own. A lot of people,

622
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 2: most people who come to me, have never had a

623
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 2: reading in their life, whether there are an older person

624
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 2: a younger person, it's always a lot of new people.

625
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 2: But I've learned that with being a psychic and reading,

626
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 2: I have, like I said, released the expectations of myself

627
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 2: because the people who you read you're supposed to read.

628
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 2: You know, the people who you connect with you're supposed

629
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 2: to and so if there's not a message for that person,

630
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 2: it's just not supposed to happen with that person. And

631
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of times it doesn't click. Anytime

632
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 2: that doesn't happen, and I'd like to brag it doesn't

633
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 2: happen often, But when it doesn't click, I know it's

634
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 2: for a reason. You know. I don't beat myself up

635
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 2: and they go, I'm the worst psychic in the world.

636
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 2: I know it's for a reason because I know the

637
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 2: experiences I've had, I know the impact I've made, and

638
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 2: so I sit really still with that.

639
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: How are you with like future prediction or like that

640
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: kind of a thing, because I know you're really good

641
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: with talking to loved ones. Do you do other psychic

642
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: things like that?

643
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 2: I don't like to do like love or money or

644
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 2: stuff like that. I feel too responsible. I'm like I'm

645
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 2: not telling you about your husband cheating on you with

646
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 2: his secretary. I'm not getting into all that. That's your business.

647
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: That's what I want I get into.

648
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm my god.

649
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: I want to get into people's dramas.

650
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 2: I'm good at like babies, Oh my god, I'm really

651
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,879
Speaker 2: good at calling pregnancies before they have engenders. I'm really

652
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 2: good at that. I know that's random, but like, and

653
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 2: I'll tell people, I don't do predictions because I don't plan.

654
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,479
Speaker 2: I just keep it really in the spiritual. Most people

655
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 2: who come to me know that it's talking to the

656
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 2: dead people things, so that's what they're wanting. But I'm

657
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 2: really good at predicting babies and trips, a lot of

658
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,320
Speaker 2: random trips and to like specific places that they weren't

659
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 2: planning on. And it's so funny. My favorite thing. Like

660
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 2: I said, this doesn't happen a lot, but if there's

661
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 2: ever a time where something just isn't clicking and I

662
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 2: feel it, I'm like, I cannot let this go. Inevitably,

663
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 2: every time my assistant will get a text, I'll get

664
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 2: an email in the middle of the night, Oh my god,

665
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 2: it was X, Y and zat this that and the other.

666
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 2: And it's uh, Like I said, I trust the process

667
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 2: because I am a skeptic, and I if I wasn't

668
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,919
Speaker 2: amazed by myself during this process and just what spirit

669
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 2: it kind of brings through me, I wouldn't keep doing it.

670
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 2: I'd be like, I fucking suck. I'm out of here.

671
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 2: You know, I'd retire from this business. But it's happening

672
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:08,720
Speaker 2: for a reason.

673
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: Can you pick up on anything with me at this

674
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 1: very moment?

675
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 2: I love you so much.

676
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: Hmmm, we're on zoom right now. Can can you tell

677
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: if I'm wearing pants?

678
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,879
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think I think you're in some great galchows,

679
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 2: some capris, some really good bloem. Wait, I actually am

680
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 2: getting something. Don't distract me. I don't want to put

681
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 2: too much pressure on it. You don't make me nervous. Okay,

682
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 2: I feel that a female energy. This is somebody who

683
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 2: is younger. This is not a family member. Mm hm

684
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 2: hm are you now Raws. I don't know about this.

685
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 2: This is I really don't know your business like this?

686
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 2: Are you dating anybody? Are you have you found an interest?

687
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: I would like to say publicly no, I am available.

688
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: Ghosted by raz at gmail dot com.

689
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 2: This is a person who was in your life and

690
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 2: really made you laugh a lot. But I feel like

691
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 2: she's telling me that you hm. I do see a man.

692
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 2: I see a man, a big, strong man. But this

693
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 2: woman also did you wreck her car? Or was there

694
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 2: something about I know that sounds really weird, but was

695
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 2: there a fenderbender or something with her car?

696
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 1: With a woman?

697
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,720
Speaker 2: With a woman? I don't know. It's like a younger

698
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 2: woman who passed many years before. I think she should

699
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 2: have But I feel like you were always bumping into

700
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,320
Speaker 2: people's cars. I don't know, something about fender benders and

701
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 2: doing a lot of weird driving. They're telling me, do

702
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:50,879
Speaker 2: you not like to drive?

703
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 1: Or do you I hate driving?

704
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 2: Okay, you may have told me that, but I feel

705
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 2: like you need to drive more. They're telling me a

706
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 2: or you need to sort of conquer. Was there something

707
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 2: with this woman in a car and something about like

708
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 2: you always being on the move or did you talk

709
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 2: to her a lot in your commute on the phone

710
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 2: when you were in your car, Because I see you

711
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 2: sort of.

712
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 1: Who is she I talk on the phone and drive

713
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:19,439
Speaker 1: all the time.

714
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 2: I don't know. Did you lose a woman that was

715
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 2: younger to you? Her name somebody with a K name Katrina,

716
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 2: maybe even Okay, so wait, hold on, I gotta go

717
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 2: back to two thousand and okay, two thousand and seven.

718
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 2: I'm seeing like a lot of uh, a lot of

719
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 2: movement around you. This feels like a woman who was

720
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,439
Speaker 2: good to you at a time where you were sort

721
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 2: of I don't know you said you moved. You told

722
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 2: me once you moved to La like seventeen right, yes,

723
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 2: so it may have been somebody who sort of guided you,

724
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 2: mentored you. I want to say this about you. This

725
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 2: is just aside from a reading. You're very upfront about

726
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,320
Speaker 2: being skeptical. You're very upfront about that. But I have

727
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 2: never in my time knowing you, and I've traveled the

728
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 2: country with you, you have always been supportive and we've

729
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,879
Speaker 2: been in some weird situations together, but you've always been

730
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 2: open to the experience. You've never just shut it down

731
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 2: because you didn't understand. You've always researched and got to

732
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,280
Speaker 2: the bottom of it, and it just it is really refreshing.

733
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 2: I personally love a skeptic. You're not just taking everything

734
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 2: for what it is. People do. People will take advantage

735
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 2: of psychics, and Mike let them be a crutch. People

736
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 2: will just listen to psychic advice, right, and it's like

737
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 2: you are able to use your judgments keep an open

738
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 2: mind about it. And I really do appreciate that.

739
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 1: Well, that's what I like for a psychic when it

740
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: comes to paranormal investigating, is like, let's listen to the

741
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: psychics feeling and where it's leading us, and then let's

742
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 1: get a second opinion. Let's see what else we can

743
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: get to confirm that.

744
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 2: Yes, I love a fact check and that's why I

745
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 2: appreciated it so much because it was like, don't take

746
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 2: my word for it one hundred percent of the time

747
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 2: time I could be wrong. Get some facts to back

748
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 2: up what we're saying. Because we are vessels. We are tools.

749
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,320
Speaker 2: You know, we're a human ghost box. But we're not

750
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 2: right one hundred percent of the time, like you said,

751
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 2: And you're never going to catch me saying that.

752
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's gonna be my merch We are tools. Okay,

753
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: wait a minute, this lady in two thousand and seven, Wait,

754
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: when did she die?

755
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 2: She didn't die in two thousand and seven. She died

756
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 2: like maybe twenty thirteen more recently. But this was somebody

757
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 2: who mentored you and was just kind of there for

758
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 2: you at the start of your career. Did you smoke cigarettes? Hell? Yeah,

759
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 2: she smokes cigarettes too kill. She's having me sort of

760
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 2: close out in my throat a little bit. Who is she?

761
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 1: Come on, lady, show yourself.

762
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 2: Are you Catholic?

763
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: I was raised.

764
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,800
Speaker 2: Yes, I heard Rosemary, but then I heard Mary and

765
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 2: I sort of went like this, and then they showed

766
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 2: me a little beat. So I don't know if this

767
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 2: person was Kathleen. I'm telling you, are you planning it?

768
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 2: I saw you just got back from Europe, which I

769
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 2: hope that was fun it was. Are you planning any

770
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 2: other trips abroad?

771
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:15,399
Speaker 1: I'm going to Mexico next month.

772
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 2: I like the tropical vibe for you. That's good. That

773
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 2: might be where you meet your hub a.

774
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: Big strong man.

775
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that for you.

776
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: But until then ghosted by Roz at gmail dot com.

777
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 2: That's fine.

778
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you for that reading. I'll put it all together.

779
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: So let's talk about this TV show Living for the

780
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: Jat great name. Thank you. I do like the name

781
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 1: lot So this show, God, there's like so much to

782
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 1: talk about now. At the time of this recording, we've

783
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: only seen one episode. Actually, tomorrow you and I are

784
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: going to see two more episodes, so it's hard to

785
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: sort of recap like what people may have seen or whatever.

786
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: So I'm sure later on down the road we'll have

787
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: to talk more in depth about each episode, But generally speaking,

788
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: what was the scariest place that you went?

789
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 2: Oh, my god, Bisbee, Arizona was so crazy. That was

790
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 2: the craziest part of the whole trip.

791
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: For me, absolutely, And that's one hundred percent what I

792
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 1: think for myself, and I know others in the group

793
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 1: said that as well. Why would you say that the

794
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: Copper Queen Hotel that was where.

795
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:39,720
Speaker 2: The most unexplained stuff happened. There was some crazy things

796
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 2: that were just mysterious, and the town itself was so

797
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 2: sort of cool and creepy and had a kneed by,

798
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 2: But the hotel was you just felt the real darkness there.

799
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 2: I don't know, it was just by far the weirdest

800
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 2: part of the trip, the most dark. I feel like

801
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,959
Speaker 2: I had the most interactions with spirits that were mind

802
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 2: blowing to me, Like I felt the most mentally affected

803
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 2: there by the energy we were so.

804
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: Immersed in it. Oh god, that was a crazy thing,

805
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 1: because it's a big tall hotel and I don't know

806
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,879
Speaker 1: how many rooms, but probably over one hundred, I don't know. Yeah,

807
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 1: And it was just us and our crew and nobody

808
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 1: else in this building and from the time you wake

809
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 1: up to the time you go to bed, just non stop.

810
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 1: You know, you shower in it, you do your makeup

811
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: in it, like everything. And I do think that that's

812
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: a very powerful way to do an investigation, is to

813
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: really spend time and immerse yourself. And I often say,

814
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 1: because I'm in an interesting position because I've interviewed so

815
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 1: many people that have done these kinds of shows before,

816
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: Like now I've done one, so it's a little different

817
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: for me now. But you know, I've always said with

818
00:42:58,280 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 1: like these TV shows, like how can you go in

819
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 1: for like two days and sometimes things aren't gonna happen,

820
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 1: Like ghosts aren't just gonna perform on command and when

821
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 1: you're there twenty four to seven, and that place was

822
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: so haunted that it was just NonStop and things were

823
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: happening when people were sleeping. And I will constantly keep

824
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 1: saying this as I talk about this TV show. People

825
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 1: have to keep in mind, like the cameras don't see everything,

826
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,280
Speaker 1: but we're still in a haunted place. You're like putting

827
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: on your underwear and you hear like a weird sound

828
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 1: in the room, like obviously there's no cameras around, but

829
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 1: it's like it just never stopped.

830
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,439
Speaker 2: I had to get used to just as I fell

831
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 2: asleep at night, I would hear screams, like literally in

832
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 2: my ear, just like gut wrenching screams all night long

833
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 2: that I knew were just I don't know if it

834
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 2: was a spirit, I don't know what it was a

835
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 2: memory that was me.

836
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: I did not sleep the entire time I was there. No,

837
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 1: you did not, And like that's another thing that would

838
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 1: happen at that place. There's no cameras in the hallways

839
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 1: or anything. So it's like, and I don't think that

840
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 1: this really makes an interesting paranormal show to be like

841
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 1: I just felt something, but walking up the stairs multiple

842
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 1: times I would like hear and feel somebody right behind

843
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 1: me following me up the stairs, and that would just

844
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: be like to go down and get some breakfast. No,

845
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 1: oh god, it was a very very stressful time for me.

846
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: It was very emotionally hard.

847
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 2: I won't agree with you. Before I did this, I've

848
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 2: ghost tied before. But I've never stayed the night in

849
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 2: a place or multiple nights at that and it is

850
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 2: important because you do get the full experience. But my god,

851
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 2: it is so draining. By the time that was over,

852
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 2: I was wore out. I was so Yeah, that was

853
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 2: a lot.

854
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: Well you also not at that location, but a couple

855
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: of locations. Honey, those ghosts got up inside of you.

856
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 2: Can you talk about that, so, I will be honest,

857
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 2: that is the first time that's ever happened in that way.

858
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 2: I've dealt with some sort of spirit attachments in the past.

859
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 2: But what's funny is the first time it happened to

860
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:20,359
Speaker 2: me on the show, I was so sort of embarrassed,

861
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 2: and I remember going up to the executives and just

862
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 2: being like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm embarrassed because I

863
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:29,320
Speaker 2: didn't want to. I literally got overwhelmed with the spirits

864
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 2: and just they sort of came inside me.

865
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: Let me stop, no death stop. So the ghost came

866
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 1: inside of you.

867
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 2: It was something that I didn't have control over. Like

868
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 2: you said, it happened a couple of times, and those

869
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 2: were moments where I felt, at least the first time

870
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 2: where I felt sort of scared and out of control,

871
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 2: like it was almost more than I had bargained for.

872
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: Well, we were in Las Vegas at a famous strip

873
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 1: club called the Palomino, which honestly might have been my

874
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 1: favorite location, but this moment was intense. I'm sitting here

875
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: minding my own business. I think I was in the

876
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 1: middle of a conversation with a ghost. I was getting

877
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 1: somewhere with them, and then all of a sudden, you

878
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: and Juju blast through the room and it was not you.

879
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,240
Speaker 1: You were fully would you say possessed?

880
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 2: I would say that, as much as I hate to

881
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 2: say that, and I'm always like, oh God, to me

882
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 2: and my Southern Christian upbringing, that word is so like

883
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 2: scary and intense, but that's what it was, you know.

884
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 2: And I'm like, saying that back is hard, you know,

885
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 2: gonna be hard.

886
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was crazy. That's the first time I had

887
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 1: ever witnessed somebody possessed. My favorite thing as a fan

888
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 1: of movies where people get possessed is they do this

889
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 1: thing where they're like they're being all possessed and then

890
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, the demon like lets

891
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 1: you see the real person again, where they're like, mommy,

892
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: please get me up to hear and then the mom

893
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 1: starts to fall for it. Then all of a sudden,

894
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 1: the little girl goes just kidding bitch, like that is

895
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: my favorite part. And I feel like I was kind

896
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 1: of getting like little moments of you being you, and

897
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, I'm like, oh fuck, like

898
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 1: it's not him. Like it kept coming and going and

899
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: it was a real roller coaster. And also it was

900
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: like we had a we had a dinner reservation that

901
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: we needed to catch and it's like we got to

902
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 1: get this demon out of here because this is Las Vegas.

903
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 1: Time is money. Let's go get get out. And the

904
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 1: demon would not get out, and we're like, come on,

905
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 1: wrap it up.

906
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 2: It was a moment where I felt out of control,

907
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 2: but it happens in this line of work and people

908
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 2: need to know that also, Like I want to just

909
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 2: say this ghost turning or doing anything like this, it's

910
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 2: really not to be taken lightly. I've done this business

911
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 2: professionally for ten years. I've seen a lot, I've experienced

912
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 2: a lot. So even though it took me a little

913
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 2: off guard, I was, you know, at least somewhat, and

914
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 2: I had my team you guys to back me up.

915
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 2: But I think messing around with ghosty stuff casually it

916
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 2: can be sort of dangerous. I just wanted to throw

917
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 2: that out there.

918
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: I will say on record, I've got my strengths. I've

919
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: got my weaknesses. When you're possessed, I ain't helping, no,

920
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna lie.

921
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 2: I was not.

922
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 1: I was not much help there. I was like, this

923
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 1: is for Juju to deal with Ken. You know, Ken's

924
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 1: got some saints on a bracelet somewhere or something. I'm

925
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:33,320
Speaker 1: gonna sit back here, and I think I was hungry,

926
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,439
Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm not getting involved. I don't

927
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 1: want the demon flying over here. I'm good.

928
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 2: I can't even remember, but I'm sure you were in

929
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 2: the corner somewhere, like looking doe eyed and scared, like

930
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 2: what the fuck is going on right now?

931
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 1: Well, yes, and I remember there was a moment where

932
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: Ken and Juju were doing this kind of motion where

933
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 1: they were like taking it out of you. They were

934
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: like taking their hand sort of pulling it and throwing

935
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 1: it by behind them, and I happened to be behind them,

936
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 1: and so I kept moving in every direction. I'm like,

937
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:09,280
Speaker 1: don't throw that at me. I don't want that dodging

938
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:13,320
Speaker 1: the spirit being. Literally, I was like karate chopping in

939
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 1: every direction. I was like the matrix. Yes, what is

940
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 1: your favorite memory of me while doing the show was

941
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 1: in many moments.

942
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 2: I love getting the vintage shop with you in Vegas.

943
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 2: Oh that was fun, you and your crocs in your

944
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 2: big hats.

945
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 1: We did go vintage shopping in Vegas, which is one

946
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 1: of my favorite places to go. Antique in vented shopping.

947
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 2: That was fun, you know it was.

948
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 1: What was really nice was when we first got together.

949
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:48,479
Speaker 1: We were all like, let's share things about us. Let's

950
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 1: just like tell each other stuff about us. I think

951
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 1: that was really nice. That was one of my favorite moments,

952
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: just like getting to know each other more.

953
00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 2: Oh yes, when we stopped at that gas station fifty

954
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 2: one or whatever, that was.

955
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we stopped at the Alien cat House brothel,

956
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that was great. Well, we went to

957
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 1: like the convenience store next to it and got snacks.

958
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 1: That was fun.

959
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 2: I don't know. It was just great being with a

960
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 2: team of people who were not only good at what

961
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 2: they did, but we all really were able to become

962
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 2: a family and become close. Even on our worst days,

963
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 2: we always have the best for each other. And I

964
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 2: think that's something beautiful that came out of it. Not

965
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 2: only you know, ghost on and helping people, but getting

966
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:38,279
Speaker 2: to do it with each other has been a lot

967
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 2: of fun.

968
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: Well, it's a very unique bond that you create with

969
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 1: somebody when not only are you going to be on

970
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: a TV show that the world is going to see

971
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,759
Speaker 1: and I mean in some ways a kind of controversial

972
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: content or whatever, and have to deal with how scary

973
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: that can be. But we also spent all all day

974
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 1: and night together with demon's crawling behind us. And it's

975
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: crazy how you can bond with somebody like that. That's

976
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 1: kind of for a lifetime.

977
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, who else can relate to it? You know, it's

978
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 2: like you're in this together whether you lack it or not.

979
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 2: You know.

980
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, can I play you some ghost voices?

981
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 2: I would love you too.

982
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 1: Okay, it's time for EVP or ev pase Okay, so

983
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 1: logan what I do. And some of the people in mcmhville,

984
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: Tennessee might know this. I go to YouTube, TikTok or wherever,

985
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: and I find EVPs Electronic Voice Phenomenon and I'm going

986
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 1: to play two of them for you, and I want

987
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:53,359
Speaker 1: you to tell me what you hear, and then I'm

988
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,800
Speaker 1: going to give you a couple of choices. The correct

989
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 1: answer is going to be what the ghost hunter that

990
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 1: posted it believes it said. Okay, the first one was

991
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 1: posted by Quinn Doer on YouTube. Okay, and it is

992
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 1: at a place I don't even know if you remember this.

993
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 1: We made a very brief stop in Tombstone, Arizona. We

994
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 1: did not do that on the show. We did that

995
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 1: on our way to Bisbee. We stopped there just to

996
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 1: check it out because it's a famous haunted little town.

997
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 1: And this is at one of the real famous, well

998
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: known haunted haunts of Tombstone, called the bird Cage Theater. Okay,

999
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 1: we didn't like go in it in it, but I

1000
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 1: did buy a magnet that sits on my fridge currently,

1001
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,800
Speaker 1: so I know I've been there, and I assume you

1002
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: were with me. So what is this ghost saying at

1003
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 1: the bird Cage Theater? Okay, you can kind of hear

1004
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 1: a human talkue noan no no in the back, But

1005
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 1: that's not it. That's the deeper.

1006
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 2: Like that one more time. Don't touch the pipe. I

1007
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 2: don't know.

1008
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:18,800
Speaker 1: Don't touch the pipe. Oh, I can hear that. Don't

1009
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 1: touch the pipe. What does that mean?

1010
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:22,360
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1011
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 1: Okay, that is not what Quinn Doer believes it said.

1012
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 2: Let me hear it reveal it? Is it A?

1013
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 1: Don't tell my wife? How many times have I heard that?

1014
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 2: Is it B?

1015
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 1: Don't touch the lights? Is it C enjoy the ride

1016
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 1: or D? You're not my type? Damn?

1017
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 2: A is my answer?

1018
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 1: Don't tell my wife?

1019
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, don't touch the lie. It sounds very much.

1020
00:53:57,080 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 2: I don't touch the lie.

1021
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 1: That's what they believe it is. Don't touch the lights.

1022
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 2: That is freak ola, that's creepy.

1023
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 1: Okay. This next one is from Mystique Paranormal on YouTube,

1024
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 1: and it's at a private residence in mcmon County, Tennessee.

1025
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 2: You're lying, is that yours?

1026
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 1: Is that the same as mcmahville?

1027
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:26,839
Speaker 2: No? Did you do that on purpose? Now?

1028
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 1: It's just a d all random.

1029
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 2: Oh wow, amazing.

1030
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:34,760
Speaker 1: I guess it was psychic. Okay, what is this ghost

1031
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 1: in McMahon County at a private residence?

1032
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 2: Saying? Now that one, I'm gonna have to hear a

1033
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:44,320
Speaker 2: few more times.

1034
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 1: Okay, it does cost five dollars each.

1035
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:47,720
Speaker 2: Time, now, Ben Willa.

1036
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,359
Speaker 1: It's actually kind of a similar cadence to the last one.

1037
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 2: It is.

1038
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 1: Not an he guesses.

1039
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:05,160
Speaker 2: No, no guesses, and I will guess once I hear

1040
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 2: my joint says.

1041
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 1: Okay, is it A? I'll go fart? Damn, I don't

1042
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 1: come up with these. Yes, I do. Is it? B?

1043
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:20,399
Speaker 1: You're almost smart? Damn? That's shape right there?

1044
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:21,759
Speaker 2: Is it? C?

1045
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 1: All goes hot? I don't know what that means or

1046
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 1: D all ghosts?

1047
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 2: Fuck? Oh my god, I meant something about hot. Did

1048
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 2: we say something about hot?

1049
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 1: Yes, all goes hot.

1050
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 2: Hot?

1051
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 1: I hear all ghosts. Fuck. I'm sorry and I and

1052
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 1: I and I appreciate the ghosts letting people know. Yes,

1053
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:56,920
Speaker 1: it is all ghosts hot. And they did say that

1054
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 1: the temperature started to get warmer in the room when

1055
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 1: the ghosts said that. And I again, could be the

1056
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:05,279
Speaker 1: ghost being like, let's get hot.

1057
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 2: Could have been hot locks in that with a fart too.

1058
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,799
Speaker 1: Hey, Logan, I think that's pretty much it. Is there

1059
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:18,400
Speaker 1: anything that you want people to know about with the

1060
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:20,919
Speaker 1: TV show? Anything that we didn't cover. I mean, there's

1061
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 1: so much we didn't cover. We spent nine weeks or

1062
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 1: something like that together.

1063
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:29,239
Speaker 2: But yeah, we've been here all day. I'm just I

1064
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 2: miss you already.

1065
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 1: Oh logan. Okay, well, then I guess we won't talk

1066
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:39,320
Speaker 1: any more about it. Where do you want people to

1067
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 1: find yet?

1068
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:44,719
Speaker 2: They can go to my website at intuitive logan dot com,

1069
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 2: or they can find me on Instagram at intuitive Logan.

1070
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: Are you open for readings, I'm getting readings.

1071
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:54,359
Speaker 2: I'm booking the second part of next year.

1072
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:56,839
Speaker 1: Now, people better get in there. The prices are going

1073
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 1: to go up. I got a feeling.

1074
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 2: No, that's funny.

1075
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: You know what I'm going to do is because you

1076
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:03,359
Speaker 1: do them over zoom.

1077
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:03,799
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1078
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 1: Mostly, I am going to do some of my character

1079
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 1: work and I am going to put on some silly

1080
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 1: glasses and a wig, and I'm going to pretend i'm

1081
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 1: somebody else and see if my spirits come through, because

1082
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: then you won't think it's me.

1083
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 2: That's a probably a good tactic. I'll be waiting, okay,

1084
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 2: or I won't know it too. I won't be waiting. Actually,

1085
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 2: it'll be complete surprise.

1086
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:30,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then the lady from the Fender Bender in

1087
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven is going to be like, it's me, bitch,

1088
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 1: it's me okay, hey, thanks for talking.

1089
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. This is so fun. Now

1090
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 2: I see why everybody's obsessed with the show. Oh you,

1091
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 2: I know, I know you could just eat me up,

1092
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 2: cut your rassow.

1093
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 1: Okay, bye bye, Thank you so much to Logan Taylor again.

1094
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 1: Make sure you're streaming and the TV show called Living

1095
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 1: for the Dead, which comes out October eighteenth on Hulu,

1096
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 1: all eight episodes dropping at the same time. Now let

1097
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 1: me see here, let me do the math. We've already

1098
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:14,040
Speaker 1: had Juju, we've had Alex, We've had Logan. That leaves

1099
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 1: one more person, Ken Boggle. Ken Boggle will be joining

1100
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: me next week. Ken is a paranormal investigator but also

1101
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:26,720
Speaker 1: somebody with psychic abilities and an incredible tarot reader, and

1102
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 1: he uses Taro in his paranormal investigations in such a

1103
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,919
Speaker 1: powerful way. So we'll get into all that next week

1104
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:39,280
Speaker 1: with Ken. I love you all, both living and dead.

1105
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 1: But if I didn't ask you to haunt me, don't

1106
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 1: haunt me came by. This has been an exactly right production.

1107
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 1: Want to share your paranormal experience on the podcast. I

1108
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 1: read stories out loud and sometime I'll even call you.

1109
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 1: So email me at ghosted by Roz at gmail dot com.

1110
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 1: You can send a DM or voice message to the

1111
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 1: show's Instagram at ghosted by Roz. Give us a follow

1112
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 1: while you're there, and follow me Roz on Instagram at

1113
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 1: roz Hernandez and on TikTok and Twitter at It's Roz Hernandez.

1114
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 1: My senior producer is the Startling Jiha Lee. Associate producer

1115
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 1: is the alarming Christina Chamberlain. This episode was mixed and

1116
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 1: sound designed by the Eerie Edson Choi. My guest booker

1117
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 1: is the petrifying Patrick Kuttner. Additional production support from the

1118
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 1: hair raising Hannah Kyle Crichton. My theme music is by

1119
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:52,320
Speaker 1: the spine Chilling Brendan Lynch Salomon. Artwork by the Spooky

1120
00:59:52,840 --> 01:00:00,560
Speaker 1: Vanessa Lilac. Photography by the Terrifying Elizabeth Karen. Executive produced

1121
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 1: by the Chilling Karen Kilgareth, the Spookky Georgia Hard Start,

1122
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 1: and the Frightening Danielle Kramer.