WEBVTT - What We Know About The Brain 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:06.800 My response to people who say, while else to sleep 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:08.640 when I'm dead is yes, you'll be dead a lot 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:11.440 sooner and a lot stupider in the meantime, because that's 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:12.440 what the science says. 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.919 Welcome to One Day University talks with the world's most 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:29.080 engaging and inspiring professors discussing their most popular courses. This 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:32.280 podcast is your chance to discover some of our top 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:36.879 rated lectures on your own schedule. I'm Stephen Shregis. The 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:40.880 National Institutes of Health calls the brain the crown jewel 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:44.319 of the human body. It's the most complex organ we have, 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:50.600 controlling our behavior, memories, emotions, movements, and much more. There's 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:53.599 quite a lot we don't understand about the brain, and 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:56.720 even more surprisingly, some of the things we thought we 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:01.320 knew are actually myths. That's according to Notre Dame psychology 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:04.800 professor Jessica Paine, she has to talk for One Day 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:08.039 University called What we Know about the Brain and What 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:12.119 We Don't. Jessica directs the Sleep, Stress and Memory Lab 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:16.240 at Notre Dame, and before dispelling misinformation about the human brain, 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:20.400 she first explains the field of cognitive neuroscience. 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:30.160 The way I like to explain it is it's a 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:34.880 blend or a hybrid really of classical cognitive psychology, where 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:42.880 we're trying to understand cognition, meaning memory, emotion, decision making, attention, concentration, 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:47.320 and then neuroscience, which is really the study of the 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:52.080 physical cells that make up the brain, and cognitive neuroscience 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:54.360 is still a relatively new field where we're trying to 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:56.680 put the two things together. So when we talk about 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.040 I'll just use memory as an example because that's my 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:03.720 area of expertise. As you're trying to remember things, what 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:07.360 regions of the brain are you leveraging to do that. 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:12.480 So we're trying to get at not just the behavioral 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:15.600 experimental aspect of what is a memory, how does it operate, 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:20.639 what can people retrieve, and why how long do memories last, 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:23.480 But we're also trying to understand the systems and the 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:28.160 structures in the brain that are going to participate in 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:29.600 those types of tasks. 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:34.320 Not that many years ago, something called an fMRI was 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:37.920 invented and now it's used all the time. What is 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:40.359 that and why is it so important in this field? 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:42.480 Well, and it's related to what I just said. So 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:46.480 when we studied cognitive issues back in the day, I 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:50.080 mean even as early the eighties the nineties, we didn't 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:53.320 have tools that could help us understand where things occurred 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:58.440 in the brain. So fMRI and other neuroimaging tools allow 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:02.280 us to image the brains at work. So while you're 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:06.360 performing memory task, for example, or maybe it's a language task. 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:08.880 Maybe you're bilingual and you're speaking in one language and 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:11.840 flipping to the other, we can look inside the brain 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:16.520 and determine what regions are active when you're performing these 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:20.560 different cognitive tasks. So we really didn't have the ability 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:23.320 to look inside the brain before that, at least not 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:28.680 an intact neurotypical brain. We were reliant on quote, normal 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:32.760 human subjects in psychology tasks and had to deal with 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:35.480 this black box in place of the brain. We just 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:37.840 didn't really know how to talk about the brain because 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:40.800 most neuroscience studies at that time were going on in 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:44.080 animals or in patients, and so we were able to 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:47.320 derive some conclusions from animals and patients. But now we're 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:52.120 able to study the neurotypical brain because fMRI is not dangerous. 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:54.880 You're using a magnet, there's no radiation or anything like that, 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:57.720 and so we're able to image the brain at work 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:01.520 on these different cognitive tasks that really brought the neuroscience 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:03.680 into cognitive neuroscience, at least in part. 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:07.480 I've got a few questions now regarding so called facts 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:12.440 that a lot of people believe that perhaps aren't really true. 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:16.080 So I'll start with this one. Most people only use 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:17.320 ten percent of their brain. 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:20.000 It has me crazy. Yep, you know, I honestly don't 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:22.799 even know where that came from. I've tried to trace 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:28.039 it back. It's very clearly misinformation. We are utilizing most 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:31.080 of our brains most of the time. So even if 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:34.440 you look at one of these language tasks, now that 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:36.479 we can use fMRI, you see that you're using a 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:39.640 whole bunch of different regions of the brain to produce 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:43.080 or comprehend language. Even when you retrieve a memory, you're 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:46.120 going to preferentially activate a region of the brain called 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.159 the hippocampus, which is probably the most important structure we 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:51.720 think for learning and memory. But it's not as if 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:55.039 it's the only structure. It collaborates with other structures all 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:57.440 over the place. In the frontal lobe, which is the 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.760 most recently evolved part of our brain, the at a lobe, 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:04.640 other regions of cortex to complete the act, say of 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:09.479 retrieving a memory. So I can't really think of any example, 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:13.960 even during sleep where you're not utilizing quite a bit 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:14.520 of your brain. 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.640 You're telling me it's not true that when you sleep 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:20.479 your whole brain turns off and nothing much is happening, 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:21.680 not at all. 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:23.600 In fact, I like to say nothing could be further 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.720 from the truth, because when you're asleep, and particularly when 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:29.599 you're in rapid eye movement sleep, some of these regions 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:31.839 that I was just talking about, like the memory and 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:35.760 surrounding cortical structures that are important for memory, they're just 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:39.320 wildly activated. Same with the amygdala, which is so important 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:43.719 for emotion and emotional learning and memory. They're in some 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:46.960 cases even more active than when people are wide awake. 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:50.760 Jessica, you mentioned that our brains are never shut off. 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:53.919 Is that always a good thing? Is that sometimes a 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:54.440 bad thing? 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:56.520 You know? It's a good question. I think it's a 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:58.400 good thing in the sense that the brain has a 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:02.000 lot of information to process, needs to not just encode 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.839 do information and store it for later reference, but it 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:08.600 needs to transform information in interesting ways so that we 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:11.200 can come up with these creative solutions to problems, as 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:14.560 I was saying, but I think the potential downside of 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:19.600 our active brains is when that activity turns into something maladaptive, 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:23.919 like rumination. And that's why I think it's better to 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:28.760 try to redirect our cognition in more useful ways, because 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:31.080 it can it really can backfire on people if you 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:35.320 can't stop thinking about something, can't stop flashing back on something. 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.520 This is pretty characteristic of a lot of different mental 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:41.400 health disorders. By the way, rumination or flashbacks when it 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:43.679 comes to negative events. You see that in anxiety disorders 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:47.279 like PTSD. You see rumination in anxiety and in depression. 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:51.440 So there's something really interesting about the brain being unconstrained 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:53.919 and sort of running a muck on you when the 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:56.120 content that's going through your head is negative. 0:06:56.560 --> 0:07:00.720 Next one right brain versus left brain. Except we've all 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:03.880 heard about what's the basis for it and is there 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:05.359 a reason there is? 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:07.159 And in that case there's at least a good reason. 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:10.640 It turns out again, in neurologically normal people, there just 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.880 aren't that many interesting differences there. I mean, there's a 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:16.880 big one, which is language. And so for the majority 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:20.720 of people, something like ninety five plus percent of right handers, 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:23.360 and I think over seventy percent of left handers have 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:27.240 language lateralized to their left hemispheres, and that is true 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:31.160 in most people. But where the real you know, drawing 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:32.680 on the right side of the brain. And a lot 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:36.000 of these oversimplifications and the media came from, I think, 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:38.720 are based in what are known as split brain patient studies. 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:42.840 So these are fascinating patients who are quite rare that 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:47.920 actually have their hemispheres separated from one another. There's a 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:51.800 big white matter track that's called the corpus colosum that 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:55.679 connects the two hemispheres, and it's like an information super highway. 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:58.480 Its whole job is to really make sure the two 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:04.080 hemispheres communicate together all the time, and due to intractable epilepsy, 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:07.400 in some very rare patients, they will actually sever that 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.520 so that they separate the two hemispheres from one another 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:13.960 so that the seizures can't spread from one hemisphere to another. 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:16.559 And this is obviously only in very very rare cases 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:20.280 where medication isn't working, nothing else is working. But those patients, 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:22.520 if you meet them, and I've had the pleasure of 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.600 actually meeting one, you would never know that they actually 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:27.760 have two hemispheres that don't talk to each other. They're 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:31.360 very quote normal seeming, But if you design the right 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:34.280 kinds of tasks, that's where you see some of these 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:38.040 asymmetries where the right side of the brain tends to 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:41.400 be much better when it comes to visual and spatial 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:46.200 information and the left brain much more specialized when it 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:50.360 comes to language. Now, those types of strict asymmetries, though, 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:52.679 you just don't see in an intact brain where the 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:55.760 two hemispheres are communicating. So there's a little bit of 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:58.760 truth to it. I mean, certainly language is lateralized. The 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:02.319 right hemisphere may be a little bit better at dealing 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:07.240 with global processing, gestalts and this visual spatial ability I'm 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:10.440 talking about. But when I hear about consultants who are 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:12.480 on the road, you know, teaching people to be more 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:16.280 less right or left brain, there's just nothing to that. 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:18.080 It's real pop psychology. 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:22.920 Let's keep going. Our memories are accurate snapshots of what 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:26.280 really happened in our past. Is there a reason to 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:26.680 doubt that? 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:29.400 There's every reason to doubt that. In fact, we know 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:32.000 that they're not and I'm on the record just to 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:35.400 be controversial. At some memory conferences saying there's no such 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.360 thing as a memory. There's no such thing as a real, true, 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:42.839 verritical memory. In most cases, insofar as we're talking about 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:46.120 episodic memories or memories for the episodes and experiences of 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:50.319 our past, we know that we're incredibly biased as human 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:54.640 beings even when we're encoding or acquiring new information, and 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:57.840 that sort of bias only gets worse as you are 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:01.240 processing information over time. And I think it's much more 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:04.920 helpful to understand the memory system as a system that 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:08.680 really evolved more to help us figure out how to 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.760 problem solve in the future than it did to accurately 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:14.920 reflect the past. So it's not that it can't do that. 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:17.760 I mean, anybody who's been a student knows that you're 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:19.920 going to have to have a fairly accurate memory system 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:22.680 in order to perform well on tests. So it can 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:26.000 perform those tasks up to a point, especially with very 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.440 simplistic materials, But when it gets into you know, the 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:33.720 real world memories of people's pasts, they're not at all accurate. 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:37.280 And I don't think that they necessarily should be, because 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.640 I think the goal of that system is to encode 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:44.000 and store information in a flexible way, so that you 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:47.480 can use what you've learned, not just to spit it 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:50.120 back out in some high fidelity version of the way 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:53.240 you originally learned it, but to be able to use 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:57.360 it creatively and flexibly in this unpredictable world that's constantly 0:10:57.440 --> 0:10:58.199 changing on us. 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:00.880 I'm going to follow up a little that I've heard 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:05.040 you speak a bit about memories made during highly significant 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:10.320 emotional events. So, for instance, I'm one hundred percent sure 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:13.760 I know where I was when the innocent verdict in 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:17.800 the OJ Simpson case was released. Is my memory of 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:19.160 that probably accurate? 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:22.079 It's probably not. And this is what's fascinating. I mean, 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.000 I'm convinced that I can tell you exactly where I 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:28.440 was and what happened to the detail during nine to eleven. 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:33.520 But we have run studies and multiple labs have done 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:37.480 this confirming that we are very confident in those memories. 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:41.440 But they're not much more accurate than any other types 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.200 of memories. They're just more vivid and more detailed, which 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:46.920 makes us more confident in them. And the way we 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:49.560 know that is because there have been studies done on 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:53.040 nine to eleven where people have been asked immediately after 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:56.040 the event what they remember, and then they've been followed 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:58.120 up later, and the memories change over time, just like 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:02.640 most normal memories do. So that's a fascinating finding that 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:06.880 the confidence we have in our most emotional memories is high, 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.880 but we're not necessarily much more accurate. 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:16.640 After the break. How words actually can hurt you, and 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:32.480 why sleep deprived people make Jessica mad I'm just going 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:35.080 to ask for a couple of sentences about two other concepts, 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:40.520 mind wandering good or bad, and meditation good or bad, 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:41.960 or both. 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:46.680 Wandering and actually mind wandering the answers both. Mind wandering 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.440 gets a bad rap, and in some sense deservedly so, 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:52.880 because most people think about mind wandering in the context 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:55.800 of say a student in a classroom who can't concentrate 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:58.400 because his or her mind is wandering, or an employ 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:01.240 at work who's not getting as much done because his 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:04.200 or her brain is mind wandering. So it can be 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:08.120 tied to distractability, and that makes it quote bad. But 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:11.760 mind wandering also is tied to creativity. So if your 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:15.600 mind is wandering about a problem that you're trying to solve, 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:19.240 or even just wandering when you don't have thoughts that 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:21.800 need to be constrained, you can come up with some 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:24.840 really cool and unusual ideas. So I think it's all 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:28.520 about the affective tone, the valance, whether it's positive or negative, 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:31.760 and sort of the regimented nature of your thoughts, whether 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.439 there's something happening in a repetitive way, which is again 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.760 more along the lines of rumination, or if what you're 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:41.240 being distracted by is completely unrelated to anything in your 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:45.800 life versus something that could be right. So it really 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:48.240 just depends on the context about whether that's good or bad, 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:51.800 whether that's distraction or whether that's the brain problem solving 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:54.120 in a way that could yield some useful insights. 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:56.880 And meditation and meditation there's. 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:59.880 A downside to everything. I mean, there are some stet 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:04.280 that have been looking at the downside of meditation, but 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:06.440 I'd say on the whole, especially if you're doing it 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:10.000 the way most Americans do, which is probably no more 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:12.480 than ten twenty thirty minutes a day max, it seems 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:17.439 to be extremely beneficial. There's evidence out there that suggests 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:21.600 that meditation even changes the brain, not just functionally, meaning 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:24.520 the way you process information that we can see using fMRI, 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:28.480 but even structurally, and you're building new neural tissue in 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:32.440 key emotion and emotion regulation areas of the brain like 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:36.720 the ventral medio prefernal cortex and the insula. So meditation 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:40.400 to me is one of the more interesting topics in 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:43.920 the neuroscience field right now, because what we know from 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.240 our research on stress is that stress can if it's 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:51.400 elevated for long enough and it's chronic enough, especially exposure 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:54.600 to stress hormones like cortisol. If it's really really high 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.840 and really chronic, you end up with problems, and you 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:01.200 end up with some neural deficits, including a reduction in 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:05.040 plasticity and even shrinkage in certain brain areas like the 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:08.600 hippocampus being so important for memory, and regions of the 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:12.040 ventromedial prefrontal cortex as well potentially. But when you do 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:16.400 something like meditate, which involves a relaxation component and a 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:20.280 breathing component, which is very helpful for dropping those stress hormones, 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.160 and then most, if not all, meditation techniques have an 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:26.480 attentional component where you're focusing over and over again on 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:29.000 the breath and if your mind wanders, you catch that, 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:31.360 but you nonjudgmentally come back to the mantra or to 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:34.440 the breath, and there's something about I believe the combination 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:37.880 of the breathing and the relaxation and the reduction in 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:43.320 andreenergic and tone of cortisol in addition to that attentional 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:47.520 piece that seems to create these beneficial again not just functional, 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:49.920 but structural changes in the brain, which makes it I think, 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:54.920 stronger and potentially more resilient to future negative emotional events 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:56.000 and threats in the future. 0:15:56.560 --> 0:16:00.200 Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:02.920 never harm me. My mother used to say that, I 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:06.120 thought it was true. Not so true, huh, not so true. 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:07.520 Now, I don't think it's the worst thing for a 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.440 mom to say to her kid. If for kids, you know, 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.240 being bullied, I think you've got to do something. And 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:17.400 bullying is its own topic obviously, but that's not true. 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:19.800 I mean we know, in fact, in order to understand 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:23.120 social exclusion, in order to understand bias, I mean, even 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:27.760 getting into really difficult topics like racism, words are hurtful, 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:32.320 and I think there I'm drawing on social exclusion experiments 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:36.880 where what you see is that when people experience social pain, okay, 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:42.400 being teased, being bullied, being excluded, you actually see pain 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:46.840 regions of the brain becoming activated in very much the 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:48.720 same way, or at least a similar way to the 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:52.280 way they become activated when you're in physical pain. So 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:55.560 social pain is real, and it's experienced very similarly by 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:58.720 the brain to the way pain is. The reason for that, 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.800 I think is because we're a highly social species. We 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:07.160 evolved in social groups. We're incredibly dependent on our social networks, 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:12.280 and it's tough to feel excluded or to feel less 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:16.119 than and the brain data show that quite convincingly, I think. 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:18.960 So it's all the more reason we should care about 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:23.919 things like bias and discrimination and bullying, even when it's verbal. 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:29.479 You explain that taking advil or aspirin when you're feeling 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:33.560 very badly about how you've been treated is sometimes as 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:36.600 effective as taking it when you have actual pain. 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:40.240 Yeah, those studies are fascinating, and I think the phenomenal 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:43.280 logical experience of the participants is still a little bit 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:46.800 up for debate whether they actually feel better. I think 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:50.080 in some studies they suggest that people do actually say 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:52.159 they feel better, at others they don't. But what it 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:56.520 definitely seems to do is reduce the pain that people 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.960 experience as a function of social exclusion or other types 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:04.000 of social pain. So again, I think the message underlying 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:07.000 these studies that's so important is that social pain and 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.680 physical pain are very, very similar when it comes to 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:13.520 the way the brain processes these two different types of pain. 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:16.720 Meaning it's very real. It gets under the skin. These 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:19.520 words that supposedly can't hurt you really can get under 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:21.840 the skin to activate the same networks in your brain 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:23.920 that you activate if you put your hand on a 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:26.159 hot stove, and in the same way. Part of what 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:29.280 supports that is that if you take aspirin or advil 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:34.520 or senemtapin something like that, you end up reducing the 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.720 amount of brain activity that you typically see activated when 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.200 somebody is subjected to its socially painful stimulus. 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:43.280 Here's something I know a lot of people wonder about dreaming. 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:47.119 Some people remember their dreams or seem to. Some people 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:51.560 never do, some people do sometimes Why is that? And 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:52.760 does everyone dream? 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:54.919 So we think most people dream? I mean there are 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:58.760 certain stroke patients who may genuinely not dream, but most 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:01.600 people who think they don't. I love getting a hold 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:04.320 of them because we can bring them into the research laboratory, 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:07.040 hook them up to EEG electrodes, so we can see 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.280 whether they're sleeping or not and what stage of sleep 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:12.680 they're in. And if you wake people up periodically, especially 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:15.960 out of rapid eye movement sleep, people who usually don't 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:19.040 remember their dreams will invariably report dreams, and they surprise 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:22.760 themselves and it's really fun to see. So most, if 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:26.240 not virtually all of us dream, but there does seem 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:30.840 to be this very interesting difference in how regularly people 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.840 remember them. Some people remember them a lot, some people less. 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:36.680 There's some evidence that people who don't tend to remember 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:39.600 their dreams at all are better and deeper sleepers. But 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:42.199 I've also met people who remember their dreams periodically that 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:44.720 sleep quite well, and they report sleeping well, and their 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:47.880 EEG tells me the same thing. So I think there's 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:50.200 just natural human variation in that, just like there are 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:53.440 in so many of these domains, and it's a fascinating 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.600 area to study. It's one of my great passions for sure. 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:59.920 Speaking of passion, there's something I've seen you get real 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:03.960 worked up about, and it's those people who talk about 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:07.680 denying themselves sleep. You call them the a sleep when 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:10.640 I'm dead group. Yes, why did they upset you so much? 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:11.640 What's going on there? 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:14.120 Yeah, and you're right, you have a good eye, because 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:16.359 I think I've nearly like followed off the stage thrown 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:20.200 my microphone. And my response to people who say, well, else, 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:22.160 just sleep when I'm dead is yes, you'll be dead 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:24.640 a lot sooner and a lot stupider in the meantime, 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:27.520 because that's what the science says. Yes. And I get 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:30.480 angry about that because it's a myth, it's a cultural myth. 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:33.000 It's not backed up by data. These people who seem 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:35.040 to think that they're not just find but great on 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:38.440 three and four hours of sleep are so difficult to find. 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:40.720 I have had many people tell me they're that person, 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:43.320 but I haven't actually found one of these short sleepers yet. 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:45.879 I mean they exist. Again, the amount of sleep we 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:48.199 need seems to be normally distributed, so most of us 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:51.800 need somewhere between seven and nine. But if you go out, 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:54.600 you know, to standard deviations on this, you know, normal 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:57.480 distribution or Bell curve, you can find people who probably 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:00.480 really only need four. But again, they're just so satistically 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:03.720 rare that I can't find them. And yet I find 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:06.040 plenty of people who brag about it. Right, it's the 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:10.560 CEO who's you know, constantly working. It's the student at 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:13.159 Notre Dame or prior to that, Harvard who thought they 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:15.840 were doing the right thing by sleep depriving themselves to 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:18.639 learn more. And I'm a memory researcher. The two worst 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:20.439 things you can do for your ability to learn and 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:25.520 remember are one cram and two sleep deprive yourself while 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:27.600 you're doing it. So the two best things to do 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:31.520 or distribute or stagger your practice across multiple study episodes 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:35.639 and to sleep on it. It's frustrating to me because 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:39.560 it's based, I think in this cultural ideology that we 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:43.480 have where we really think that we're only worth as 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:46.840 much as our human capital, you know, and so we 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:49.120 need to be using every single ounce of our time 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:52.080 and energy to produce. And I have a lot of 0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:54.280 issues with that just socially, but I have a big 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:56.159 issue with the fact that if you want people to 0:21:56.200 --> 0:21:59.600 be more productive, you need to do the revolutionary thing 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:02.200 of let them sleep, let them have time with their families, 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:06.000 let them have down time, let them exercise. It's about efficiency, 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:10.000 and the brain simply can't perform very well if it's 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:12.400 highly stressed out and sleep deprived. That's the world we're 0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:14.959 living in We've got most companies out there thinking that 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:17.080 that's a good thing, when the truth is it's a 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:18.960 bad thing, which is why I've gotten into so much 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:21.919 corporate work and doing a lot of leadership trainings in 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:25.080 across domains, but especially in healthcare, where it's particularly upsetting 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:27.159 because I feel like they ought to know better. So 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:29.000 sleeping is one of the best things you can do 0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:31.520 for your cognitive performance. I think it's one of the 0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:34.560