Speaker 1: Native lamd Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership
Speaker 1: with Reason's Joye. Okay, so I'm gonna do that again,
Speaker 1: and the first time I'm gonna hear from you is
Speaker 1: after I welcome everybody.
Speaker 2: Two one, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, Welcome home.
Speaker 3: Y'all.
Speaker 1: This is episode seventy six of Native Lamp Pod where
Speaker 1: we give it to you straight, no chaser, and we
Speaker 1: talk about pretty much everything.
Speaker 3: I am here with my co host Andrew Gilla.
Speaker 4: Everybody. Welcome home, Welcome home, Welcome to my home.
Speaker 5: I know.
Speaker 3: Florida, you guys.
Speaker 1: Angela, I will tell you in transparency, is on her way.
Speaker 3: She is juggling a thousand.
Speaker 4: Things and so to the ground.
Speaker 1: Yes, she got stuck in traffic and so she is
Speaker 1: joining us shortly.
Speaker 4: So you're aware. The ladies are here to attend a conference.
Speaker 1: We're attending a conference for women for black women. I'm
Speaker 1: Keim Blackwell hosts the conference. We were here last year,
Speaker 1: all three of us. Yes, and Andrew was quite the
Speaker 1: hit on.
Speaker 6: Stage, hit and more importantly, the audience was the head
Speaker 6: They were That was one.
Speaker 1: Of my favorite shows. So you guys remember that because
Speaker 1: we did a live show that day. Also, there will
Speaker 1: be a special guest joining us which you will see
Speaker 1: later at the very end, So tune in for all
Speaker 1: of our viewers. You will see this our listeners, we
Speaker 1: will describe to you.
Speaker 3: The guest is yes, yes, Andrew.
Speaker 1: You know, we never get to all the questions that
Speaker 1: we have on viewer questions send us in, so we
Speaker 1: have a viewer question. I think they sent it in
Speaker 1: like a week or so ago, but I think it's
Speaker 1: a great question to get the discussion started. So the
Speaker 1: producer Nick, let's roll that clip.
Speaker 4: Welcome, What's up to me? Andrew?
Speaker 7: And Andrew myna is coach or Flum with Katucky born
Speaker 7: and raised West End.
Speaker 4: I have a cool question.
Speaker 7: Why do you think a lot of Black Americans aren't
Speaker 7: really considering moving The majority Black Americans aren't really considering
Speaker 7: moving to an African country to like start businesses and.
Speaker 4: All of that stuff goes so much further. She takes
Speaker 4: the tams that you have and just move.
Speaker 7: But I mean, I feel you. I feel something y'all's
Speaker 7: politics and stuff like that. I feel you.
Speaker 8: For sure.
Speaker 7: It took me because I might tell you what people
Speaker 7: today's face and when they don't. One point is why
Speaker 7: do y'all think that is that a lot of black
Speaker 7: Americans aren't because I know we built America, but.
Speaker 4: We've never ran in America.
Speaker 3: I love that question. And right on cue.
Speaker 4: The question.
Speaker 3: I want you to know I have eight thousand degrees.
Speaker 3: It is hot, and look at Angela.
Speaker 4: She bought seattle with her got it's hot. It's all
Speaker 4: get out.
Speaker 3: I'm hot, I'm sweating. I probably got y'all.
Speaker 6: We warned in the opening that Angela is like running
Speaker 6: it at both ends.
Speaker 3: She's burning the let me hear you.
Speaker 4: Let me hear you burning burning the candle from both ends.
Speaker 1: And the first time I wanted to hear how he
Speaker 1: was going by saying, right, so said burning the candle
Speaker 1: at both ends of the stick.
Speaker 6: Oh that is not that is what it really does mean,
Speaker 6: burning it at both ends.
Speaker 4: But you know it works fine.
Speaker 6: We're here speaking of I thought we were talking about
Speaker 6: sayings because I bought my book of We should get
Speaker 6: to that.
Speaker 3: That's the way we have one.
Speaker 1: But before we get into that, I just wanted to
Speaker 1: let you all know that Angela is joining us. And
Speaker 1: we just heard a great viewer question about why don't
Speaker 1: more black people move to Africa.
Speaker 3: I have a lot of thoughts.
Speaker 6: You've You've been quite a future to the continent and
Speaker 6: and to many countries. Most of my trips to Africa
Speaker 6: have been North Africa in the Islamic part yeah. Uh, Egypt, Cairo, Uh.
Speaker 3: I've been to.
Speaker 4: Morocco, yes.
Speaker 6: But but but I think what he's talking about probably
Speaker 6: some of West Africa.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 1: So, Angela and I went to Ghana for It's gonna
Speaker 1: make me laugh.
Speaker 5: You so tired?
Speaker 4: Oh no, you're gonna say no, you ate some something.
Speaker 1: No, No, I will address those comments in a moment.
Speaker 1: But Angela and I went to Ghana for New Year's
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two and just had a most amazing time.
Speaker 1: But let me say this about moving to Africa, because
Speaker 1: I love the question and I love the concepts. You know,
Speaker 1: you've talked a lot about expanding our imagination. I honestly
Speaker 1: think that's a question of privilege. You know, there are
Speaker 1: a select few of us who have the means to
Speaker 1: do that, who have the family ties to do that.
Speaker 1: You know, I could not just up and leave my
Speaker 1: mother here. You know who I helped support, My brother
Speaker 1: is here, Like those things would be challenging a lot
Speaker 1: of people don't have passports to even do that, so
Speaker 1: I think we have to keep that in mind. But
Speaker 1: I will say that was one of the themes, the
Speaker 1: pronounced theme that I felt in Ghana with the people there,
Speaker 1: especially our tour guides and people who were really pouring
Speaker 1: into us with knowledge. It did seem like the sentiment was,
Speaker 1: it's so strange that you all choose to live in America,
Speaker 1: that you choose to live alongside the descendants of your enslavers,
Speaker 1: when you could come home and live here.
Speaker 6: You know, I was going to ask you, based on
Speaker 6: your experience, what your experience has been with folks from
Speaker 6: African countries that are populated, you know, overwhelmingly by black folk,
Speaker 6: how they feel about that, because when I hear it,
Speaker 6: I feel a little bit like maybe how folks felt
Speaker 6: with carpetbaggers, you know, the folks who sort of come
Speaker 6: in from outside, and now you're going to come here
Speaker 6: and you think you're the You're the one we've been
Speaker 6: waiting on to open a business, right the start, a
Speaker 6: farmersty to do this, to do that. So I've got
Speaker 6: a little bit. But once we get over that, and
Speaker 6: so long as that's not an issue that you know
Speaker 6: that we'd be confronted by. I think most people think
Speaker 6: of the continent of Africa obviously as a foreign place.
Speaker 6: Haven't been, don't have relatives that knowingly have relatives there,
Speaker 6: And it's a big move to start a business anywhere.
Speaker 4: But if your experiences have been here in America, you're.
Speaker 6: Not likely to uproot everything and take a chance that
Speaker 6: you can move to another country, start a business and
Speaker 6: be balling you know, you know, left and right overnight.
Speaker 4: That's just not going to be the story.
Speaker 6: But for those who do, and to the extent that
Speaker 6: it is done in the right way with respect for
Speaker 6: the community.
Speaker 4: I say, you know, go for it. Yeah, Angelia, you
Speaker 4: had thoughts on the move, the shift, the great migration,
Speaker 4: the greater migration.
Speaker 8: What is very present for me right now?
Speaker 9: Even when Tip was talking about her mom, like I
Speaker 9: can't go to the continent.
Speaker 8: I don't know, like we have one of my mom.
Speaker 9: Is being treated at the second best cancer hospitals in
Speaker 9: one of the seconds the second best cancer hospital in
Speaker 9: the country.
Speaker 8: I don't know.
Speaker 9: I'm not saying that there aren't remedies and aren't solutions
Speaker 9: for cancer treatment. On the continent, But I just the
Speaker 9: unknown of that is more than I can bear.
Speaker 8: My dad is not.
Speaker 9: Even Seattle, okay. And I think what is also in
Speaker 9: my heart is like I know that also there are
Speaker 9: pharmaceutical drugs and other things, herbal remedies, naturopathic remedies on
Speaker 9: the continent that regardless of what kind of treatment they are,
Speaker 9: they are more affordable than here. So I see the
Speaker 9: positives in the negatives. My mom has to get these
Speaker 9: white blood cell injections right now to keep her like
Speaker 9: blood white blood cell count up because chemo suppresses your
Speaker 9: white blood cell count and your ability to fight off
Speaker 9: disease or ailments, and so does immuno therapy. She's getting
Speaker 9: both and her injections two weeks ago. We're ten dollars
Speaker 9: with her insurance this week when we went to get them,
Speaker 9: or no, it was last week. The week prior to that,
Speaker 9: it was ten dollars. Last week when we went, the
Speaker 9: guy was like, we're gonna have to get another medication?
Speaker 9: Said why, he said, it's nine hundred and something dollars, right,
Speaker 9: So I just I'm like, what they're trying to do
Speaker 9: to humanity in this country is crazy, and I do
Speaker 9: want our people to go somewhere where they can be safeer,
Speaker 9: where we're appreciated. We're welcoming all of that, but there
Speaker 9: are all these conundrums that we have to deal with,
Speaker 9: especially as we age. I guess what I'm gonna say is,
Speaker 9: young people, if you can go.
Speaker 3: While you're young, Yeah, I think that's real.
Speaker 1: But I think the most important thing to me that
Speaker 1: you said is about the healthcare system there. You know,
Speaker 1: we just don't know what is health insurance.
Speaker 6: Like.
Speaker 1: It's obviously they have qualified doctors and treatment. But can
Speaker 1: we as people who are expats, who are not citizens,
Speaker 1: can we go and get that health care? What we
Speaker 1: have to have private insurance?
Speaker 8: I'm going to ask them that there are good questions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's different and obviously in each country.
Speaker 4: There's different questions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because Ghana is if I were going to move,
Speaker 1: it would be the one hundred percent to Ghana.
Speaker 6: The fact that we started this, the consideration around access,
Speaker 6: affordability healthcare, I think is a bigger indication.
Speaker 4: Of where we are in life in our ages right now.
Speaker 4: You know the Sandwich generation, you're raising young ones. I
Speaker 4: know this well. In fact, literally left my house this morning.
Speaker 6: My mama was upstairs and the kids were, you know,
Speaker 6: getting them ready for school and whatnot. But but a
Speaker 6: lot of folks have parents that they're caring for or
Speaker 6: increasingly beginning to take on more responsibility, and you got
Speaker 6: little ones that you're trying, you know, trying to raise.
Speaker 6: I think the questions will likely be different depending upon
Speaker 6: where you are in life right now. Young folks who
Speaker 6: are unattached might look for a little bit of adventure
Speaker 6: and willingness to try something new. Because you're only taking
Speaker 6: care of yourself. You don't have to have all the
Speaker 6: money in the world. And because you're young, as saying,
Speaker 6: as the statistic go that you're generally healthier, so you
Speaker 6: don't have to have such a reliance on that system access.
Speaker 4: Yes, a reliance on it, probably not.
Speaker 6: Like we would going to see a doctor, you know,
Speaker 6: on regular checkups and whatnot, So different stages. And then
Speaker 6: folks who have already established successful businesses here or have
Speaker 6: had ideas or have been in industries that they feel like,
Speaker 6: oh god, okay, looks like either the supply chain or
Speaker 6: maybe the demand for this thing is going to be
Speaker 6: greater on the.
Speaker 4: Other on the other side of the on the other
Speaker 4: side of the world.
Speaker 6: So there are a lot of considerations. I'm all for
Speaker 6: you know, all for going. I just hope we don't
Speaker 6: get over there and act like Americans.
Speaker 1: Yeah, where you can become the gentrifiers.
Speaker 6: That and that, you know, just like our standard and
Speaker 6: our expectation is this and therefore that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like you you move like waite folks exactly.
Speaker 6: We talked about this, can white folks be can black
Speaker 6: folks also be oppressors?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 6: You picked the question, and I think I don't know
Speaker 6: what the comments were saying, but I think universally we
Speaker 6: could all probably point to an example, an example of
Speaker 6: that kind of abusive trait of the you know, this
Speaker 6: hegemonist you know, you know, toxic sort of situation.
Speaker 4: Emerging.
Speaker 6: And I just I hated every international trip I took
Speaker 6: as an elected official as part of those sort of groups.
Speaker 6: I was on many occasions very embarrassed, and almost every
Speaker 6: time at the end of the night, the countries who
Speaker 6: were visiting, which were largely brown places, if you will,
Speaker 6: you know, would ask me like, how do you do this?
Speaker 6: You know, like they have their own sayings and they
Speaker 6: do it, and you know, it was just interesting to
Speaker 6: me that it didn't matter where I went at the
Speaker 6: end of the night, as the only black guy in
Speaker 6: the delegations was seeing the locals would come around, yes,
Speaker 6: and it's like how did you achieve that there?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Or do you ever want to leave there? You know
Speaker 4: those kinds of things.
Speaker 8: Yeah, they were trying to flash with the.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I give you yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Well we met a lot of expats in Ghana. Just
Speaker 1: because we're talking about this. I didn't know we were
Speaker 1: going to be talking about this today, But just this week,
Speaker 1: Ghana has outlawed foreigners mining their goal there, which I'm
Speaker 1: like about time, you know, because they have pillaged and
Speaker 1: plundered that continent in the price if you'll watching the markets,
Speaker 1: you know, gold is a commodity, right exactly, So I
Speaker 1: would like to see and I know a lot of
Speaker 1: people who are building property there, and you know, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of Americans who have found peace there. I
Speaker 1: felt that way when we were there, we well, we
Speaker 1: all wept, you know when we saw the history and
Speaker 1: what our people gone through. But we also had a
Speaker 1: really good time, you know, like we had some of
Speaker 1: the most that's when I stopped eating meat. We had
Speaker 1: some of the most amazing meals in Ghana. We stayed
Speaker 1: at a beautiful hotel. We just had a great time.
Speaker 1: So I don't want anyone to misunderstand what we're saying
Speaker 1: about moving to Ghana. I think people should explore moving
Speaker 1: to the continent.
Speaker 8: I want to give property there.
Speaker 3: Do you really in Ghana or just yeah? I think
Speaker 3: that would be amazing.
Speaker 4: I think hopefully.
Speaker 6: I think Hawaii should have done this as part of
Speaker 6: its negotiated agreement to become part of America. There are
Speaker 6: a lot of European countries that are already do it.
Speaker 6: Where you cannot own the majority share of a business, yeah,
Speaker 6: if you are not a citizen of that country. So
Speaker 6: if you go to you know, many places in the
Speaker 6: Middle East and you say I want to open up
Speaker 6: a suit shop, and my suit shops are you know,
Speaker 6: renowned everywhere, Well, you got to have a fifty one
Speaker 6: percent majority owner who is of that country in order
Speaker 6: to own a business.
Speaker 4: Otherwise the government has to buy into it and make
Speaker 4: that decision. Yes, because what happens is is folks come
Speaker 4: up right from up under you.
Speaker 6: I think across many countries in Africa, the most prestigious
Speaker 6: right on land is not to the owner who owns
Speaker 6: the land on top. It's to the folks who have
Speaker 6: resource licenses, resource access to what happens underneath their requirements,
Speaker 6: Their demands take precedence even over the folks who own
Speaker 6: the land, These mineral rights that exist, the same thing
Speaker 6: Trump was trying to negotiate with in Ukraine. And so
Speaker 6: you have, yes, you have folks who own property, but
Speaker 6: they don't own what's beneath the property. Some corporation X
Speaker 6: Y Z owns it and can go in there and drill, drill, drill,
Speaker 6: and change the whole landscape.
Speaker 4: Of where these folks lives.
Speaker 6: So I hope, I hope they are as protectionists as
Speaker 6: they need to be to ensure that you know, again
Speaker 6: those suppressive and white supremacist tactics and antics don't re
Speaker 6: infiltrate the way that countries, these countries are led.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Hawaii does have some programs where the local
Speaker 1: API community, like if you're Hawaiian born, you get a
Speaker 1: discount on things. So that is one territory that has
Speaker 1: been gentrified. They have brought up all the property. So
Speaker 1: I mean the same things that we're seeing in our
Speaker 1: inner cities across America, like that is happening in Hawaii.
Speaker 1: As well, and they are taking active steps to stop that.
Speaker 3: So I don't know. All right, we got to take
Speaker 3: a quick break, but we'll see you on the other side.
Speaker 4: Donald Trump is trying to have it all his way.
Speaker 6: But one of the one of the slap backs or
Speaker 6: clapbacks that I appreciated in these last couple of days,
Speaker 6: slap backs.
Speaker 8: Clatbacks is not a thing, not at all, but clapbacks, Okay,
Speaker 8: clap backs.
Speaker 4: You know me, I make up saying.
Speaker 3: Yes all the time for a long time, both ends.
Speaker 4: And yeah, that's true too.
Speaker 6: But but one of the knockdowns that I appreciated was
Speaker 6: Harvard basically say no, no, and hell no to all
Speaker 6: of the administration's demands with regard to, you know, their
Speaker 6: ability to have say in admissions, teaching credentials, degree programs,
Speaker 6: what type of targeted research and institution does. Basically they
Speaker 6: were going to be demanding. What they did obviously of
Speaker 6: Columbia similarly, is a bending of the knee of the
Speaker 6: institution and the ending of any any, any version of
Speaker 6: academic freedom as it exists. The hallmark of our system
Speaker 6: of education. Part of that hallmark one is that teachers,
Speaker 6: particularly after they are tenured can't be fired for their
Speaker 6: views for you know, their teaching style orientation while in
Speaker 6: the classroom, for.
Speaker 4: Their political views outside of it, or even in class.
Speaker 6: They can write off eds, both of them, so on
Speaker 6: and so forth. And this administration wants to we already
Speaker 6: know it squelched all opposition.
Speaker 4: Yeah, any any.
Speaker 6: Contrarian view in the opposite saying. And Harvard, so far
Speaker 6: as I can tell, along with a number of of
Speaker 6: law firms that have taken.
Speaker 4: A stand, thank god.
Speaker 8: Yeah, not that many numbers, but but not.
Speaker 4: But the truth is is that more it's probably the
Speaker 4: only we can call out in higher education right now,
Speaker 4: so far, so far, And.
Speaker 6: Again we can't ignore the privilege obviously that our Harvard
Speaker 6: has to be able to make this decision, these kinds
Speaker 6: of decisions.
Speaker 4: The endowment.
Speaker 10: I think they've got an endowment that's a multidowment.
Speaker 3: You and I we both not at the same time,
Speaker 3: but we taught there for a semester.
Speaker 1: And I heard this idiot saying that he taught there
Speaker 1: and he was treated like a pariah because he's a conservative.
Speaker 1: And it's so ridiculous that they don't recognis Harvard is
Speaker 1: not this liberal institution of leftist extremist thought. You know,
Speaker 1: like there are a lot of challenges at the school
Speaker 1: that students are confronting. And what concerns me about Donald
Speaker 1: Trump even going after these institutions of higher education. It
Speaker 1: is right out of the dictator's Playla. This is precisely
Speaker 1: I think it was Putin who said wars are not
Speaker 1: one on the battlefield, they're one in the classroom. Modi
Speaker 1: of India has targeted universities, has targeted universities like Dictator
Speaker 1: after dictator has gone after classrooms and control thought.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because they don't want you thinking right right to
Speaker 4: the exactly they want you thinking. They want you thinking
Speaker 4: what they are teaching you to think.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Oban that's what I say.
Speaker 1: In Hungary or bon in Hungary has also, i think,
Speaker 1: attempted to privatize universities.
Speaker 6: It's classic because if you can tell the people what
Speaker 6: to think, yes, you know, then you start to tell
Speaker 6: them how to you know, and all the actions that
Speaker 6: flow from it. You'll recognize that it's largely going to
Speaker 6: be in submission to government, right to the oligarchical rule,
Speaker 6: to whoever is in charge. They're going to teach us
Speaker 6: at the reason why we don't have. What we think
Speaker 6: we ought to have and what we think we are
Speaker 6: to own is that by divine birthright.
Speaker 4: You know, our divine right did not entitle us to it. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and if you teach your people that over time, you could.
Speaker 6: I mean, there's there, there's a whole generational folks who
Speaker 6: exist right now, y'all who don't know their privacy rights
Speaker 6: because they've made everything so public public post public pictures
Speaker 6: how you're feeling in a moment, They wouldn't and they
Speaker 6: wouldn't know right now how to fight back around a
Speaker 6: First Amendment challenge like do I not have the right
Speaker 6: to say speak.
Speaker 4: What I believe?
Speaker 1: Or even confronted in real time with with representatives of
Speaker 1: the state, like how do you inter interact with them?
Speaker 1: I was trying to on this quote which I just found,
Speaker 1: but I also wanted to point out and I am
Speaker 1: going to embarrass myself because Andrew, you will tell me
Speaker 1: how to pronounce his name Pino Che, Yes, Pinochet, not
Speaker 1: Pino che.
Speaker 8: What's that?
Speaker 1: Well, he was a Pinocchio. Pinochet in Chile was also
Speaker 1: a person who took over universities and.
Speaker 6: Ran as a outsider, bringing in the voice of the
Speaker 6: regular people, which.
Speaker 5: Is generally it is all the same.
Speaker 1: And when you see this, when you see the similar patterns,
Speaker 1: it is frightening. But the quote that I was trying
Speaker 1: to look up while you were talking, it's from our
Speaker 1: own Carter G. Woodson, who of course is one of
Speaker 1: the or the founder of Black History Month. But he says,
Speaker 1: if you can control a man's thinking, you do not
Speaker 1: have to worry about his action.
Speaker 4: Yes, set him there, yes there. If there is no
Speaker 4: back door, he will create one for its special.
Speaker 1: Purpose and our own American history. I mean, this is
Speaker 1: not the first time that we have banned books. But
Speaker 1: also even the idea of banning books that is straight
Speaker 1: out of Nazi Germany. So the idea that we're actually
Speaker 1: there have been ceremonies where they're burning books. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just a weird thing. But also it's dumb because
Speaker 1: I'm looking at these white folks, I'm like, why you
Speaker 1: want your kids to be dumbered in ours? They don't like,
Speaker 1: don't you want your children to know the real history
Speaker 1: of America. Don't you want your children to know the
Speaker 1: authentic story of the American Revolution?
Speaker 3: Don't you want the victors?
Speaker 4: Never want history? What the oppressed have done? They don't.
Speaker 6: The worst thing the Bible could have done was given
Speaker 6: us a day of think David and Goliath story.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no one wants it reported that the poor guy
Speaker 4: from nowhere, of no name, of no background, of.
Speaker 6: No privilege or wealth or title can be the biggest, tallest, baddest, richest, wealthiest,
Speaker 6: most connected thing in the room, because that could inspire
Speaker 6: an uprising of the proletariat.
Speaker 1: Which I predict might happen across as we see the
Speaker 1: rise of populism, because it's a global issue. And so
Speaker 1: I want to encourage you all again out there, if
Speaker 1: you pay attention to what's happening across the globe, you
Speaker 1: see there is nothing new happening here in America. Other
Speaker 1: continents have been dealing with this for quite a while,
Speaker 1: and you've been trying to get in.
Speaker 9: I was just going to say, we're having a conversation
Speaker 9: about because I think it's not just about Harvard or education.
Speaker 9: It's anybody that has the audacity to think differently than
Speaker 9: this administration will be targeted. So particularly those who have
Speaker 9: the audacity also to protect like our civil rights and
Speaker 9: civil liberty. So we've been having some conversations about what
Speaker 9: they have the ability to do. And I won't say who,
Speaker 9: but a lawyer among us who is brilliant, you list
Speaker 9: know I wouldn't do that.
Speaker 8: I might, I might be a little cocky, but not
Speaker 8: black cocky.
Speaker 9: But she provided a list of things that nonprofits can
Speaker 9: do to survive in this moment, and I got to
Speaker 9: be honest with you. One of the first things was
Speaker 9: that the president does not have the ability to unilaterally
Speaker 9: revoke any organization's tax exempt status by law. That's the
Speaker 9: key word, her key phrase, the presidents the president is
Speaker 9: prohibited from directly or indirectly influencing tax related decisions of
Speaker 9: the Internal Revenue Service.
Speaker 8: Meanwhile, this man is doing this every day. So I
Speaker 8: think that the.
Speaker 9: I'm concerned that we keep trying to prepare a response
Speaker 9: that would work in a time where someone was actually
Speaker 9: obeying the law and not deliberately trying to break it
Speaker 9: and break systems. Someone who will be like the Supreme
Speaker 9: Court rules and he's like, oh, yeah, we're gonna follow it,
Speaker 9: but they're doing something completely different. So I just wonder
Speaker 9: what protection really does look like in this era for
Speaker 9: our schools, for our institutions, for our organizations, for human beings, for.
Speaker 4: Us individualis yet for human beings.
Speaker 9: Right, So I'm saying, if it's not business as usual,
Speaker 9: and I keep saying this to myself, we have to
Speaker 9: stop responding with a business as usual response.
Speaker 8: Yes, but to me, well, does that leave us with war?
Speaker 5: Yes? I think so.
Speaker 1: Yes, the Civil War did not begin with the firing
Speaker 1: of the you know, first musket or banet or whatever.
Speaker 3: Like we are in the Civil war now. I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't think it's not that, but don't you feel that?
Speaker 3: Don't you?
Speaker 5: I feel that way?
Speaker 8: I mean, I yes, I feel that, but I keep
Speaker 8: wanting not to feel that. Do you understand what I'm saying?
Speaker 8: Like I A'm helt for war? Like I what do
Speaker 8: you want me to do?
Speaker 1: Like I disagree, I think we are. I think I
Speaker 1: don't want to go you cannot want it. But I
Speaker 1: think I really believe we are built for war, right,
Speaker 1: But I don't want.
Speaker 9: To Yeah, yeah, like that is gonna be. Like our
Speaker 9: people have suffered enough. I'm tired of suffering.
Speaker 8: And it's not even me.
Speaker 9: I'm tired of watching the suffering of our people, like
Speaker 9: even right now. And this is tangential, but it is
Speaker 9: important because this is my response to the battle. My
Speaker 9: response to the battle has been to join a coalition
Speaker 9: with every organization he would probably target, all of the
Speaker 9: people he would probably target to do this state is
Speaker 9: a people thing.
Speaker 8: First the marathon, now the power Tour.
Speaker 9: I am doing everything I can, and I'm working alongside
Speaker 9: people who are doing everything they can because we don't
Speaker 9: want what he's offering. It is our way to summarily
Speaker 9: reject it and to provide an alternative. And it still
Speaker 9: feels like that might not be enough.
Speaker 8: Yeah, and like the in this I think now.
Speaker 9: I'm gonna sound like Tiff where she's been discouraged. It's like,
Speaker 9: if we're here to prepare you, if we're here to
Speaker 9: show you, like if Twitter goes down or Instagram because
Speaker 9: all of these holes were at the inauguration in his face, If.
Speaker 8: You don't have any of those tools, what are you
Speaker 8: going to do? How are you going to mobilize? We
Speaker 8: are implementing those things so you're connected. If you don't
Speaker 8: sign up, if you won't join in because you don't
Speaker 8: like who's leading, if you mad because you didn't get
Speaker 8: to teach a workshop, like what are we doing?
Speaker 1: I think that goes to the whole conversation about the
Speaker 1: movement and leadership, you know, because in every movement it's
Speaker 1: been that kind of strife.
Speaker 8: That's you know, that's true.
Speaker 1: I mean, you look at How, but I don't know
Speaker 1: that it's always ego because I look at Stokely how
Speaker 1: Stokely was kind of coming for MLK a few times,
Speaker 1: and I don't think it was Stokely's ego.
Speaker 9: I think, so, No, you don't think any of it
Speaker 9: had to do with like I'm telling you all his
Speaker 9: tactics are off, My tactics are right.
Speaker 5: Is that ego?
Speaker 6: It is?
Speaker 8: Okay, your way, that's right, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1: It presupposes that I feel I have opinions about people's ways,
Speaker 1: and I don't know that it doesn't feel y'all tell
Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 10: It doesn't feel like also doesn't have to be a
Speaker 10: pejorative every time. Okay, if we were to look at
Speaker 10: ego not neutrally that a person has ego, Beyonce has
Speaker 10: ego and right, yeah, you know, such a fear that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but then but that's right, so.
Speaker 6: An alter ego, but which we recognize and we appreciate
Speaker 6: when that alter ego shows up. But for some reason,
Speaker 6: in leadership and an ambition and then who's in front
Speaker 6: of the room. Ambition then takes on a negative turn,
Speaker 6: and I think the real and and be and more
Speaker 6: importantly ego. What has to be checked about it is
Speaker 6: it's that What has to be checked about it is
Speaker 6: when you're walking into a certain place to be world
Speaker 6: aware enough to know that you may not be the
Speaker 6: most seasoned, experience, well read and prepared person there. That
Speaker 6: means you have to relate to that where it shows up,
Speaker 6: but also to stand your ground when it has gone wrong.
Speaker 6: One of the things that I really hate is when
Speaker 6: folks show up and I said this on our mini
Speaker 6: pod that we did a couple of weeks ago, where folks,
Speaker 6: it's like, no, we said it last week, welcome us into.
Speaker 4: The room as young people.
Speaker 6: And then my response partnering was no, I mean with
Speaker 6: the universal theme, our response is when you get in there, though,
Speaker 6: you got to show some deference to the folks who
Speaker 6: have been there.
Speaker 4: For twenty years.
Speaker 8: Can you say it again? Can you say it again?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I default in so many ways in
Speaker 6: those spaces to a staffer. You didn't think I've ever
Speaker 6: run for anything in my life or that I want
Speaker 6: I want you to have your coffee and your water,
Speaker 6: that you are as comfortable as you can be because
Speaker 6: you were in this fight, in this struggle when it
Speaker 6: wasn't popular. There was no hashtag to it, there was
Speaker 6: no currency, you know, public currency for being involved.
Speaker 4: In fact, it came. It came riff with all the
Speaker 4: risks and consequences that are negative, but you did it.
Speaker 4: You stood. Then Who am I to suppose, with.
Speaker 6: All the rights you didn't have, that I can walk
Speaker 6: into this space and then disrupt it and tell you
Speaker 6: that you've been doing it wrong.
Speaker 9: And that's the thing that that it frustrates me because
Speaker 9: we do assume, like we've been studying Gary Indiana a lot.
Speaker 9: In nineteen seventy two, there's a documentary. Do I say
Speaker 9: all about this documentary called Nation Time that really examines
Speaker 9: everything they did for the National Black Political Convention. And
Speaker 9: I think that a lot of us have gone through
Speaker 9: a season at some point in our lives where we're like,
Speaker 9: I know what it is, they just didn't have this right.
Speaker 8: That's not always what it is. That's not always what
Speaker 8: it is.
Speaker 9: And Gary Coleman Young, who later becomes the mayor of Detroit,
Speaker 9: walked his whole delegation out because they disagreed on a
Speaker 9: labor issue and approach. So I'm just saying, right now,
Speaker 9: this is not the era where we can disagree on
Speaker 9: approach and the thing falls apart and the thing crumbles.
Speaker 9: Our ability to thrive in this moment, our ability to
Speaker 9: survive really at this moment, has to move tactics aside.
Speaker 9: We have to try multiple tactics and still be together.
Speaker 9: I'm gonna use a very controversial example right now, Target.
Speaker 8: Target.
Speaker 9: So last week, I don't know when y'all gonna watch this,
Speaker 9: Tiff is mad at me just recently yes.
Speaker 3: Week.
Speaker 9: Okay, I just said that, but it really was last week.
Speaker 9: So we're gonna be like say, last month. But recently,
Speaker 9: I'll sharp to him met with the Target CEO. He
Speaker 9: put up a post with him in the picture with
Speaker 9: the charge CEO, Franklin Richardson, who's his board chair and
Speaker 9: one of his advisors, and people were relentless. They went
Speaker 9: off on him, how dare you do this? Blah blah
Speaker 9: blah blah blah. Jamal Brian later shared that he was
Speaker 9: in that meeting actually, but people including me were upset
Speaker 9: that Jamal wasn't there. But Jamal was there, and so
Speaker 9: I'm bringing this up as an example of something. Reverend
Speaker 9: OL's tactics are different. His tactics are when I'm doing something,
Speaker 9: I'm going to tell you all because I want, in
Speaker 9: his mind, I want to be accountable to the people.
Speaker 8: So that you know what I've done. That is a tactic.
Speaker 9: There are civil rights leaders, including Reverend Jackson, who embraced
Speaker 9: that tactic. There are others who think that if you
Speaker 9: advertise what you've done, it's an endorsement or it says
Speaker 9: that now, don't worry y'all, I got it. We're good,
Speaker 9: and that's that's an approach, right, and there's broad disagreement
Speaker 9: on which way is right or wrong.
Speaker 8: Either one could be right around.
Speaker 3: I was going to ask that you have an opinion
Speaker 3: on which one is right around.
Speaker 9: I think the thing that I would, and I feel
Speaker 9: bad because I have not talked to him about this.
Speaker 9: I would invite him into considering everything not needing to
Speaker 9: be in the press, especially when the deal is not struck.
Speaker 9: I don't know that my approach is right. I think
Speaker 9: that there are people who see that and they get
Speaker 9: energized by him posting like, oh, look, we want to battle,
Speaker 9: so now maybe we could win the war. Like I
Speaker 9: get that, but I also think that our tactics have
Speaker 9: to be more sophisticated. Like there are young business leaders
Speaker 9: that I would invite into those conversations because they talk
Speaker 9: to those leaders at those corporations in ways that I don't.
Speaker 9: I think that maybe there shouldn't be one at the
Speaker 9: table or just two because four, because there were four,
Speaker 9: but like have different types of people at.
Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, I have something to say on all of this,
Speaker 1: but to keep us on target, wink wink, see what
Speaker 1: I did there. We're gonna take a quick commercial break
Speaker 1: and I'll weigh in on the other side. Well, I
Speaker 1: had a challenge, I'll say, because it looked like a
Speaker 1: win for Target, Like you got this picture, you got
Speaker 1: to go promote it.
Speaker 3: I will say this about Rev.
Speaker 1: He invited me to join him on his radio show
Speaker 1: weekly where we would talk politics and help me build
Speaker 1: a following during my time at MSNBC. I think he
Speaker 1: tried to be helpful while I was there and extended
Speaker 1: himself to me. So I appreciate that from Rev and Sharp,
Speaker 1: and I just want to be very transparent about that.
Speaker 1: I also want to be very transparent about the fact
Speaker 1: that there is this perception that Revern Sharpton is a
Speaker 1: leader in Black America.
Speaker 6: He is.
Speaker 3: A leader.
Speaker 1: Yes, there's a very tiny there's a very tiny sect
Speaker 1: of Black America who follows the steps of Reverend Sharpton.
Speaker 1: I do not believe, or I don't I won't believe.
Speaker 1: I know that he does not lead the masses as
Speaker 1: he once did. Well, yes, though, that's my point, are
Speaker 1: not we are a leaderless movement. To your point, we're
Speaker 1: a leaderless movement at this point, there is no you know,
Speaker 1: back in the day pre Twitter and you know Instagram,
Speaker 1: we have five, you know, five to ten leaders, and
Speaker 1: even all the leaders didn't get shine. You know, doctor
Speaker 1: Dorothy Hyde was a member at that table. She did
Speaker 1: not always get her shine. You know, there are a
Speaker 1: lot of women in the movement, black women in the
Speaker 1: movement who did not get the still designed right of
Speaker 1: national leadership. So when you think of civil rights, who
Speaker 1: you think of doctor King and Malcolm Xcuse that's the
Speaker 1: first two. And it's not really like that anymore. Well,
Speaker 1: there's a ton that we probably think of. But you know,
Speaker 1: you ask your average person Jackson, Yes, well, Reverend Jackson,
Speaker 1: though it was post, but I think they were posting
Speaker 1: civil civil posted Jim Crow posted rights like they came up.
Speaker 1: They were under the tutelage right exactly. But we could
Speaker 1: name we could name a hundred, But I'm saying like this,
Speaker 1: the people you think of are doctor King and Malcolm X,
Speaker 1: who had different approaches. You know, Stokely was under them
Speaker 1: and had an issue with how they were leading. So
Speaker 1: my point is because a lot of people have comments
Speaker 1: about that, and I think we do have leaders who
Speaker 1: are loyal to power, you know, and loyal to.
Speaker 3: Brand.
Speaker 1: And so I think by posting a picture like that
Speaker 1: that people took that like what did you specifically get
Speaker 1: out of this meeting? Did they write you or National
Speaker 1: Action Network of check and even.
Speaker 3: If they did, you know, like whatever.
Speaker 1: I don't know what deal with s truck, But those
Speaker 1: were questions and comments that people were asking, and I
Speaker 1: think to avoid that, to really be of the people,
Speaker 1: it does take employing some different tactics.
Speaker 3: I don't think this is moving with ego.
Speaker 1: Y'all are telling me, you know, if you have an
Speaker 1: issue with someone's tactics, that might be ego. I humbly say,
Speaker 1: I don't mean it. In ego, but I'm open to
Speaker 1: you all corrected me that if I'm wrong, you know,
Speaker 1: no tip here is I feel like Angelo is not
Speaker 1: crying by the way, I just have no voice.
Speaker 8: I'm sorry. I should talk quieter and it'll be more soothing.
Speaker 3: Sexy and waspy.
Speaker 8: This is my Andrew.
Speaker 5: Quiet store.
Speaker 8: Hey, everybody, I just want you to And I was
Speaker 8: gonna say, you know, I think that.
Speaker 9: One conundrum that I do feel and where I felt
Speaker 9: for rev in that moment, is there are a whole
Speaker 9: conversations that are had and people make a decision off
Speaker 9: of what they see in the picture and develop a
Speaker 9: narrative because all they have is what you said and
Speaker 9: the image. They don't have a readout from the meeting,
Speaker 9: and sometimes you can't really do that because you got.
Speaker 8: To keep things moving. So I feel for them a
Speaker 8: little bit because there was a whole narrative that was
Speaker 8: shared based on that.
Speaker 9: Now, the part that I didn't feel for was if
Speaker 9: you didn't put it out because there were several other
Speaker 9: civil rights orgs that had met with Target before and
Speaker 9: none of us knew. So as the story began to unfurl,
Speaker 9: it was like, oh, like that's fine, you know, I
Speaker 9: don't see anything wrong with that, but the masses don't
Speaker 9: always know that. So I'm also curious to know how
Speaker 9: much do we tell the people if we also can say,
Speaker 9: if we agree with Prince that black folks are the
Speaker 9: only one that put our whole strategy up on a website,
Speaker 9: what parts of this should we keep to ourselves while
Speaker 9: we allow the thing to unfurl in our favor.
Speaker 4: I don't know all of it. Yeah you don't.
Speaker 3: You you're saying keep all of it to ourselves.
Speaker 4: At levels of engage movement shifting.
Speaker 6: So the call was put out to the people, and
Speaker 6: the people have responded for the tenth consecutive week, put
Speaker 6: traffic down by over nine percent, and Target stores across
Speaker 6: the country that has been since the start of the
Speaker 6: announced boycott, and they're backtracking on DEI.
Speaker 4: We know that there is an impact being had because
Speaker 4: there would not have been.
Speaker 6: A call to a Reverend Sharpton or anybody else to
Speaker 6: come step foot at Target headquarters were this not.
Speaker 4: Landing in some way or.
Speaker 6: At nan which either or doesn't matter, because if the
Speaker 6: currency is we all know this. A picture is worth
Speaker 6: a thousand words. Nobody knows it better than Rev. Sharpton himself.
Speaker 6: Nobody knows it better. What I have to believe is
Speaker 6: that there is a strategy that is not known to
Speaker 6: me and us that has to be underway, because I
Speaker 6: don't think Reverend Sharpton would have gifted what is a
Speaker 6: big piece of the currency for being at the table,
Speaker 6: which is the image that says a thousand words and
Speaker 6: the midst of a protest that's been going on for
Speaker 6: nine weeks rather successfully.
Speaker 4: Here comes this new inflection. Why did it happen? It
Speaker 4: starts to chatter it. You know, the company can use
Speaker 4: it any way they want.
Speaker 6: Quite frankly, they can image that however they choose to
Speaker 6: use to for the photo. And now it can be
Speaker 6: used to suggest some things that may not have been right.
Speaker 6: But who read the fine line to determine.
Speaker 4: That that wasn't right?
Speaker 8: So just say, what if you released it? I'm not
Speaker 8: saying this is true, but what if you released it
Speaker 8: before they did? Maybe they should have said no pictures allowed?
Speaker 5: That's what?
Speaker 4: Is there a reason why jamal Brian is not in
Speaker 4: a photo? Or is you a photo.
Speaker 8: Released photo?
Speaker 6: There is a reason my pastor Bishop as I call him,
Speaker 6: Jamal Brian is not in a published photo because his
Speaker 6: understanding of the assignment was we can see where we are,
Speaker 6: we should keep in touch around how you all are
Speaker 6: moving back toward this commitment in these benchmarks, and so
Speaker 6: we've got to be in communication, open discussion about that.
Speaker 6: But there will not be an announcement around us sitting
Speaker 6: down until there's an agreement to be signed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's no agreement.
Speaker 4: There's none of that. There's nothing there, but there is
Speaker 4: a photo. So what I'm saying is is I have
Speaker 4: to believe, given Rev's life experience, is no how through
Speaker 4: this this thing.
Speaker 6: I mean, I've watched these things being played in real
Speaker 6: time with certain speakers can come up on the stage,
Speaker 6: but you must have done such and such and such
Speaker 6: to be one of them.
Speaker 1: You know a lot about this behind the scenes work
Speaker 1: that you're not saying, which you're not saying what I
Speaker 1: can appreciate because.
Speaker 6: Because there are things that happen behind the sides, and
Speaker 6: by the way, the masses shouldn't be charged with following
Speaker 6: a hook line sinker every step here. The call has
Speaker 6: gone out to us and we're doing our part while
Speaker 6: that's happening. I have to assume that organizers on the
Speaker 6: inside are doing their part, and they're not acting recklessly
Speaker 6: and doing so because they're.
Speaker 4: Carrying on their shoulder. They're carrying our purse.
Speaker 6: The reason why you're in the room is because they
Speaker 6: believe you're negotiating on behalf of our purse.
Speaker 1: And I don't know that the people felt like the
Speaker 1: masses may not have felt like Revernd sharp and was
Speaker 1: negotiating on their behalf. And we don't know because I
Speaker 1: wasn't at the meeting.
Speaker 3: I don't know what.
Speaker 6: Because I think the masses probably absorbed what we absorb
Speaker 6: is that a picture is worth a thousand words, and
Speaker 6: you don't give a.
Speaker 1: Picture without But they got more out of it. It
Speaker 1: looks like on the surface, they got more a target,
Speaker 1: got more out of that photo.
Speaker 3: Than the people did. They haven't changed anything, they haven't
Speaker 3: met any demands.
Speaker 6: There was a reason why I did not go and
Speaker 6: have breakfast with my opponent after the race, despite an invitation,
Speaker 6: because I knew, based off the race that we ran,
Speaker 6: that we had diametrically opposed views and positions.
Speaker 4: About the direction of the state.
Speaker 6: What I'm not going to do is heal over or
Speaker 6: bridge over anyone who is in support of me by
Speaker 6: imaging myself next to you as if I'm and.
Speaker 4: Or that it's okay.
Speaker 3: I think that was the right decision to me.
Speaker 9: Let me just ask this, though, why do we expect
Speaker 9: their people who use as a tactic the bully pulpit
Speaker 9: or a bullhorn. Our friend and brother, Ben Crump is
Speaker 9: that way. He tries cases first in the court of
Speaker 9: public opinion. So just like all of us, our flat
Speaker 9: side is also our gift. So I'm just it's I
Speaker 9: think the thing that I'm wrestling with too and trying
Speaker 9: to give grace for in this moment is like the
Speaker 9: thing that we normally families call Reverend ol into their
Speaker 9: communities to help lift up when their kids have been
Speaker 9: kid no doubt about it.
Speaker 8: So when there's an.
Speaker 9: Issue with our community and a company calls him to
Speaker 9: do the thing, I'm trying to forget why we would
Speaker 9: expect that he would do something different.
Speaker 6: I think I think people largely feel that his fidelity
Speaker 6: is fealty is always going to be us first. I mean,
Speaker 6: I think that's what folks believe, and really to avoid
Speaker 6: the trappings of sort of.
Speaker 4: Going down by the rat hole around any one individual,
Speaker 4: just just a little to make sure that we're talking
Speaker 4: about styles of going about doing exactly tacticles of going
Speaker 4: about doing things.
Speaker 6: And you know there are going to be tactics, and
Speaker 6: sometimes they're just tools that we're picking up.
Speaker 4: Along the way and are utilizing. But there are no giveaways.
Speaker 6: And movement and and organizing everything must be hard. For one,
Speaker 6: the corporation moves as if they are not moving at all.
Speaker 6: They move, you know, as the hermits in the space.
Speaker 6: They're not They aren't making dramatic steps because they don't
Speaker 6: want you to believe or that it is possible for
Speaker 6: your dramatic demands to ever be met, So they move
Speaker 6: slow and that these are difficult and hard thing. This
Speaker 6: is hard, and so we've got to decouple this that
Speaker 6: in the third and they use these words, this language
Speaker 6: that is intended to turn the rest of the public off,
Speaker 6: like this is not is above my pay grade.
Speaker 4: I need to step out of the conversation when.
Speaker 6: The reality is no, it's as plain as they as
Speaker 6: you know it to be. Yeah, and have workers who
Speaker 6: deserve to be played a ways that they can live on,
Speaker 6: pay their bills and maybe take a vacation every once
Speaker 6: in a while, And you are single handedly stopping that
Speaker 6: from happening because you're worried or more concerned about a
Speaker 6: stock price and a stock split for your shareholders than
Speaker 6: you are about the customers who are powering you.
Speaker 1: Well, this is my challenge though, with what the scenario
Speaker 1: you laid out. I've spent a very brief amount of time.
Speaker 1: It's like a fish out of water on the funding
Speaker 1: side of things, and there is often the ROI for
Speaker 1: these meetings is very small, and so I think there
Speaker 1: is danger both the people and sometimes the organization. You know,
Speaker 1: I was on behalf of a labor organization, so I'm
Speaker 1: dealing with like teachers hate their income. So sometimes the
Speaker 1: ROI wasn't big enough. But I would say there is
Speaker 1: a danger in a company like Target feeling like we're
Speaker 1: in trouble with the black community. Let us call Reverend sh.
Speaker 4: They call him because he has evidence that I'm not.
Speaker 3: Saying that's what happened.
Speaker 1: I'm going off the example that you gave specifically said
Speaker 1: everyone right, but you said a corporation will call, So
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that's what To be clear, I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that is what happened in specific. Since with Rev
Speaker 1: I'm saying there is a challenge. When a company feels
Speaker 1: like I got a problem with black folks, let me
Speaker 1: call Reverend Sharpton.
Speaker 4: I think because.
Speaker 3: I have a challenge with that too. I'm let me
Speaker 3: tell you why.
Speaker 4: Experience of moving people, you can move people.
Speaker 3: Can I tell you why though I have a problem?
Speaker 4: Please?
Speaker 1: My challenge is the people are not always with Rev.
Speaker 1: The people were not always with Rev.
Speaker 3: And Jackson.
Speaker 1: They're not always with Reverend Sharpton. I've never been somewhere
Speaker 1: with a bunch of black folks and they're like, oh
Speaker 1: it at six o'clock, y'all, we gotta get oar nub
Speaker 1: ACP meeting. I think these things can be regional in Jackson, Mississippi.
Speaker 1: The NAACP has a huge presence in Miami, in in Washington,
Speaker 1: d C.
Speaker 5: They do not.
Speaker 3: In Cleveland, Ohio, they do not. In Los Angeles they
Speaker 3: do not. They do know in l ale As.
Speaker 1: So when I talk to folks who are impacted by
Speaker 1: the fires recently, well so maybe I should say alsda.
Speaker 3: But even black folks in LA but these are they
Speaker 3: could be different people.
Speaker 8: Last was on the ground regularly during the fire.
Speaker 3: There was no connection with people. You know these folks too.
Speaker 1: But also the people I talked to in LA are
Speaker 1: also more on the entertainment side, so it could be
Speaker 1: a disconnect there, precisely.
Speaker 8: Wood Bureau, So that's Hollywood rights.
Speaker 3: That's my point.
Speaker 1: Sometimes the people who are you know, they're not they're
Speaker 1: not a part of an organization. You know, they're not
Speaker 1: divine nine. They don't summer on the vineyard like. They
Speaker 1: don't feel a connection to these organizations all the time.
Speaker 1: And so when corporations feel like I'm gonna pluck this
Speaker 1: one negro from the brunt from the bunch and get
Speaker 1: a picture with him, give some money to his or
Speaker 1: her organization, check the box, and then I'm done, problem solved.
Speaker 1: And I can see the disconnect between the rank and
Speaker 1: file people of society who feel like, well, what happened.
Speaker 1: I've been going out of my way to shop at
Speaker 1: these mom and pops, driving all over town, and then
Speaker 1: this one thing happened, and I'm supposed to be all
Speaker 1: good with it. There is a disconnected. So I also
Speaker 1: think that sometimes corporations and organizations will tap black people
Speaker 1: who make them comfortable when really.
Speaker 5: But it is this way, go this way, and because okay, he.
Speaker 8: Does that every week, germs.
Speaker 3: Anyway, My point is I didn't forgot my dang point.
Speaker 5: But you were saying, what time is it?
Speaker 3: We gotta go with some danger and.
Speaker 5: Feeling like one we had time.
Speaker 3: It's some danger in it's some danger in in in
Speaker 3: having one person. And then and when you find the
Speaker 3: black person that makes you comfortable, sometimes you need to
Speaker 3: find a black person that makes you uncomfortable.
Speaker 4: If you're the business, and this is my point, and.
Speaker 1: These businesses are not ever really going to fund or
Speaker 1: create something that is in our favor. They are not
Speaker 1: going to fund something that services are liberation.
Speaker 5: They would be.
Speaker 1: Funding their demise. They would be funding their demise either
Speaker 1: way if it wasn't it. I mean, you look at
Speaker 1: George Floyd, like all those businesses, it was billions of dollars.
Speaker 1: Around ninety million went to actual justice organizations. The bulk
Speaker 1: of that money went to up right. But even the
Speaker 1: money that was right, it was like JP Morgan, Chase
Speaker 1: gave a lot of JP Morgan gave a lot of money,
Speaker 1: and they most of it went to things that would
Speaker 1: service their company, that would profit them.
Speaker 3: So even when you when you look into the money.
Speaker 1: That did exchange hands, it did not service the people
Speaker 1: so I fully understand when the people out there look
Speaker 1: at that pig cure or look at any of this
Speaker 1: and they see this person who especially if you we
Speaker 1: remember Rev from in them tracksuits, honey and going uptown
Speaker 1: downtown ready to get buck like we remember that Rev.
Speaker 1: They may only know suited and booted Rev with a
Speaker 1: show on MSNBC. Rev who got invited to the Obama
Speaker 1: White House?
Speaker 8: Rev?
Speaker 3: But Rev used to be about about it.
Speaker 4: I think he is about it. I think there's the
Speaker 4: reason why he is in the room. One the ability
Speaker 4: to mobilize.
Speaker 3: But two, there are certain he does have the ability
Speaker 3: to mobile.
Speaker 4: Many times in my own city.
Speaker 8: Yeah, he's.
Speaker 4: We've been separate from him all around the country.
Speaker 6: There's a reason he gets called in to eulogize nearly
Speaker 6: every high profile murdered death and people there are a.
Speaker 9: Lot of people in our community that think that think
Speaker 9: that he just swoops in those families call him.
Speaker 8: So I know.
Speaker 4: Nobody if you.
Speaker 3: When it comes to like shootings and death and all.
Speaker 6: That, But that creates and it creates an energy and
Speaker 6: it suggests to people that that's a guy who we
Speaker 6: could go to if our problems.
Speaker 4: Black people, there's a list of five we could talk
Speaker 4: to and this is what they can do.
Speaker 1: Also tapped into REV to talk about black maternal mortality
Speaker 1: and it's like the.
Speaker 6: Life and so you know what it means to fight
Speaker 6: against that that strain of journalism that says there's only
Speaker 6: one who can talk about this, that will do it
Speaker 6: and be received by the people on.
Speaker 4: The outer end. What REV does, and not just REV,
Speaker 4: but when our leaders show up again in these images
Speaker 4: and and and how they.
Speaker 6: Navigate the world when we're in protests, creates a permission
Speaker 6: structure for a group of people to do likewise, So
Speaker 6: the image of a REV then makes it okay if
Speaker 6: Ken Chinault and following.
Speaker 3: Him former CEO of American Express, right.
Speaker 6: I'm sorry, yes, or Kathy Hughes or Tyler Perry, you know,
Speaker 6: should they choose to then say, you know that the
Speaker 6: reason why you saw me and that TMZ clip going
Speaker 6: coming out of target is because I thought the whole
Speaker 6: thing was all resolved. I mean, went in met with
Speaker 6: them such and such and such. That's the shorthand that's
Speaker 6: without ever explaining anything. The reason why power has.
Speaker 4: To be coveted the way that it does.
Speaker 6: What we do have when we're talking about our negotiating
Speaker 6: strength at the table, the reason why why a picture
Speaker 6: can't go out unless there is a higher demand that
Speaker 6: has been met that we might not be privy to.
Speaker 6: But you need to bring us to speed right now
Speaker 6: because this looks like a betrayal.
Speaker 9: I get some disconnect there, And so the challenge is like,
Speaker 9: there are people I think especially are like some of
Speaker 9: our elders, that see that and think that that's a
Speaker 9: good that was a good negotiating tactic.
Speaker 8: There are others that think, in regardless of age, that think, now,
Speaker 8: why did he do that? He just want to be
Speaker 8: in the front.
Speaker 6: And then there are others who haven't interrogated one way
Speaker 6: or another. But because it's Rev, he must be up
Speaker 6: there for us whatever it is he and guess what
Speaker 6: is his life's work that has gotten him the benefit.
Speaker 1: I'm going to say, and I welcome the pushback. I'm
Speaker 1: going to say, there may be even disconnect with you
Speaker 1: all and some of the people because I'm talking to
Speaker 1: like regular ass people in LA who do not feel
Speaker 1: connected to the NUA A c P.
Speaker 6: But when have we the masses, We've never felt connected,
Speaker 6: So then maybe so we need them.
Speaker 8: So then say it again, but who is leading?
Speaker 1: But so there is not if it's a leaderless movement,
Speaker 1: I'm saying there are community validators, don't some of these
Speaker 1: inner cities, like some of the hoods that are not
Speaker 1: you know, student great, So those people are leaders to them.
Speaker 9: Sure, But I think that the danger that we have
Speaker 9: right now is saying that we're a leaderless movement. I
Speaker 9: don't think that's true. I think that we we I
Speaker 9: think that there are pockets of us who have varying
Speaker 9: leaders there that's true.
Speaker 3: I mean there's no singular leader.
Speaker 8: I agreed.
Speaker 9: Of course, there are black people who see nineteen Keys
Speaker 9: is their guy. There are black people w see Earn
Speaker 9: Your Leisure their guy. Killer Mike is their guy. Joy
Speaker 9: is their gal? You is there like what to Mika
Speaker 9: Mallory Beyonce calls out in a song. So there are
Speaker 9: a bunch of different people that we can go to
Speaker 9: for different things. In Double A CP chapters, especially Derek like,
Speaker 9: there are folks, there are members of Congress who people
Speaker 9: are like, I don't know who that is, but Max
Speaker 9: saying they won't even call her congresswoman because.
Speaker 8: She's different to them. So I just think that the country,
Speaker 8: but the but the But the thing that I'm just
Speaker 8: raising is me.
Speaker 9: I'm not saying that, uh that the n double A
Speaker 9: or the Urban League or nan or National Bar Association
Speaker 9: or whatever else is making major strides with every aspect
Speaker 9: of our community. I I'm saying they have their pockets,
Speaker 9: and in some of those pockets, they have strongholds, and
Speaker 9: I think it would be ignorant of us to say
Speaker 9: that that doesn't exist.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 9: The thing that I can say, again another shameless plug
Speaker 9: for the power Tour, is almost all of these organizations.
Speaker 9: We don't have nan ON, but almost all of these
Speaker 9: organizations have come together to say in individuals, we have
Speaker 9: to come together now because if we don't start both
Speaker 9: the folks who don't subscribe to organizational leadership, those individuals
Speaker 9: or this pocket that focus on civics or Black Voters
Speaker 9: Matter or whatever, we all got to come together because
Speaker 9: right now we're all a target, regardless of who we
Speaker 9: think is.
Speaker 8: That is the point.
Speaker 1: Remember the guy in Atlanta who stood up. I felt
Speaker 1: like he was a great example. And let me just
Speaker 1: be clear, because I think Angely make a good point
Speaker 1: and a solid correction. It is incorrect to say we
Speaker 1: are a leaderless movement or that we are leaderless right
Speaker 1: now there. It's just that it's not a singular leader
Speaker 1: and there are multiple people in positions of leadership who
Speaker 1: have come together for this work. I also don't I
Speaker 1: want to push back a little on this whole idea
Speaker 1: that everybody's resting. You know, there's a lot of where Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a lot of happening.
Speaker 3: And Angela lost.
Speaker 1: Her voice because she's she is not resting, even as
Speaker 1: discouraged as I am.
Speaker 3: I'm not resting.
Speaker 1: I got a huge time deficit, right exactly. So if
Speaker 1: you hear somebody say that, they probably just not really
Speaker 1: connected with the people or the movement. And I want
Speaker 1: y'all to feel incouraged about that. But I think to
Speaker 1: your point about you know, it's pockets of leadership. The
Speaker 1: guy in Atlanta, we did our live show there and
Speaker 1: he stood up and he was like, I got Mawaiians
Speaker 1: doing this. He seemed like somebody who was a bit
Speaker 1: disconnected from these like big organizations, but he said, I
Speaker 1: love Ataja Brown like a fat kid love cake. And
Speaker 1: I think Latasha is a good example of she's not
Speaker 1: She is aware and does work, but she's also very
Speaker 1: connected with those grassroots people who you know might not
Speaker 1: have even her organization.
Speaker 3: Black Voters matter.
Speaker 1: They're not coming in there saying we need a twenty
Speaker 1: page ro O I filled out and lawyers to look like,
Speaker 1: tell about your program and we're gonna get you some
Speaker 1: money to help fund it. And I think she has
Speaker 1: a good connection with those folks. And on the State
Speaker 1: of the People Tour, which kicks off Sunday in Atlanta,
Speaker 1: Saturday in Atlanta, like I said, Saturday, April twenty sixth,
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, Angela will be there, Joy Joy will be there,
Speaker 1: Tamika will be there to make a Valori will be there.
Speaker 3: Joy read to me, it's going to be a folks
Speaker 3: arian all the people.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a lot of people there at these
Speaker 1: different stops, and they can go to the State of
Speaker 1: the People Tour die date.
Speaker 9: Of Date of the People just google State of the
Speaker 9: p p L though the main State of the p
Speaker 9: PL dot in the written notes.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, but I do feel like this tour is
Speaker 1: pulling in all the people. And you have said like
Speaker 1: you believe in organizing. By addition, so all the people
Speaker 1: who you may agree with me disagree with me. You
Speaker 1: may agree with Angela Andrew. No matter how you feel,
Speaker 1: all of these people are at the same table right now,
Speaker 1: almost almost, yes, almost almost.
Speaker 4: Bringing their talents, bringing their talents.
Speaker 8: And their resources, their time, talent and treasure.
Speaker 5: It's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 8: It's a hard thing, yeah, but it's good.
Speaker 1: But even we I think we probably all have different
Speaker 1: approaches and different understanding. You lived in la and you're like, no,
Speaker 1: NAACP is a huge presence. I'm only talking to other
Speaker 1: people who live there who didn't feel the presence I
Speaker 1: would have said in Florida. I don't know how big,
Speaker 1: but you're saying no. Here they are, you know, have
Speaker 1: a big presence.
Speaker 11: So what I say about a lot of those legacy
Speaker 11: groups is, if we had to if we had to
Speaker 11: do a popularity like name recognition across the board, these
Speaker 11: are folks who would.
Speaker 4: Have brand name I D within our community, and they're
Speaker 4: almost all ways always.
Speaker 6: The default place people want to go when they don't
Speaker 6: feel like they're getting what they need from the right,
Speaker 6: if they're being you know, wrecked over, you know, ord
Speaker 6: not seen, can't get a complaint call returned the first
Speaker 6: I mean, it's it's clockwork, because it's it's muscle memory
Speaker 6: folks are like, well, what is na a CP doing.
Speaker 6: That's when I hear the most criticism about and the
Speaker 6: most praise, as in somebody's moment of personal crisis, because
Speaker 6: it's it's it is the nine to one one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and so for a lot of people, whether there it's.
Speaker 1: Regional or even when it's not a crisis. And Jackson,
Speaker 1: na a c P is a.
Speaker 4: Historic reason. Yeah, to be be loud and proud. You know,
Speaker 4: in the country they have legacy.
Speaker 1: And hold our history in the young man he kind
Speaker 1: of came for them last with you don't remember that.
Speaker 3: He was like, we say NAACP. Like he was basically
Speaker 3: saying that young people don't feel connected to them one
Speaker 3: because of the name they have young. But no one's
Speaker 3: saying it's no young people.
Speaker 5: And a lot of young people.
Speaker 1: It's relative when you consider all the young people. If
Speaker 1: it's a thousand young people in there, that's that's a
Speaker 1: very small amount.
Speaker 6: The markers shouldn't be that versus how we show up
Speaker 6: in other spaces as well.
Speaker 3: Agree, So by.
Speaker 6: Percentage we've you know, they're they're punching outside their weight.
Speaker 6: There's no doubt about it.
Speaker 4: Their legacy has afforded them the ability to bump to
Speaker 4: box up basically.
Speaker 6: I mean they take on administration, they take on presidents,
Speaker 6: they take on you know, courts, they.
Speaker 4: Take on systems.
Speaker 1: And there's a difference I think in between NAACP and
Speaker 1: na a c P OLDF, like the way the stuff
Speaker 1: that the LDF is doing their very outfront and NAACP
Speaker 1: is out front.
Speaker 6: Ona ACP pieces where the people at the lawyers are.
Speaker 4: And by the way, this is not an economy we
Speaker 4: need too.
Speaker 1: I think that's what point where we need all hands
Speaker 1: on decks. And don't be honest about my own disconnectre
Speaker 1: I feel disconnected. You talked about some of like who
Speaker 1: are leaders or something people when you said nineteen Keys,
Speaker 1: I have never heard of nineteen Keys in my life
Speaker 1: until about two weeks ago it was some controversy around him.
Speaker 3: So I feel.
Speaker 1: Incredibly disconnected from some of the more pop culture leaders,
Speaker 1: from some of these like Instagram philosophizers. You know, it's
Speaker 1: like I don't really know who they are. I have
Speaker 1: never and I still have nineteen Keys walking here right now.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't know it was him in.
Speaker 6: Nineteen Keys probably has thousands, hundreds of thousands, tens of
Speaker 6: thousands of followers.
Speaker 3: Maybe, oh he's like a celebrity. I suppose.
Speaker 9: I can't tell you what it's like, mostly black empowerment
Speaker 9: on our economics.
Speaker 6: If there are millions of us out there that are
Speaker 6: willing to dial in because somebody's talking about our future
Speaker 6: economic health as a community and that moves them, I say,
Speaker 6: there are credit to what we all be doing right now.
Speaker 8: That's right.
Speaker 4: So again, I don't know a lot of these folks.
Speaker 4: I mean, you got to explain most SETI set anyway.
Speaker 8: I just I literally decided to dive in. Yeah, because
Speaker 8: for me, I want to know, like, it does.
Speaker 9: Not behoove me in service to our people to think
Speaker 9: that my way is the only way. It's just it's ridiculous.
Speaker 9: I want to be able to reach the people you
Speaker 9: reach and hear what you're saying to reach them, and
Speaker 9: I want to figure out how we can work in
Speaker 9: tandem to do that.
Speaker 1: Let me, we're gonna We're gonna rap soon. But I
Speaker 1: have a question for you, because I think this this
Speaker 1: gets into when there's real disagreement. So what are somebody
Speaker 1: here as you say that, and they say, but Angela
Speaker 1: Byron Donalds, for example, he.
Speaker 8: Has a white district, A white.
Speaker 1: Okay, somebody who is a supporter of Byron Donalds and MAGA,
Speaker 1: and they're saying, but you're saying, you don't have an ego,
Speaker 1: And I think there is the right way.
Speaker 3: I think MAGA is doing some things, and I think
Speaker 3: this is I think there is strategy there in getting
Speaker 3: behind MAGA and being on the inside and trying to
Speaker 3: help our people becoming a part of this I call
Speaker 3: it a cult.
Speaker 8: How would you feel sure?
Speaker 9: Maybe there's a strategy and he can keep that strategy
Speaker 9: the hell away from me, because he going to strategize
Speaker 9: us right into the belly of a slave ship. So
Speaker 9: if they want to follow that, they are welcome. He
Speaker 9: is not welcome anywhere where I am. I'm happy to
Speaker 9: have a conversation, and I would have.
Speaker 8: I would have. I mean, he's an elected office.
Speaker 9: He's running for governor, you know, like I'm happy to
Speaker 9: have the conversation, but I want to have a conversation
Speaker 9: rooted in facts, and if he can't do that.
Speaker 8: I don't want to talk.
Speaker 4: A big difference to me is that.
Speaker 9: I wanted to have Tims caught on because there's this
Speaker 9: peace out about did Tim Scott squander his minority business
Speaker 9: agenda attaching to Mega.
Speaker 8: That's a conversation I want to have because right historically at.
Speaker 9: Least there were some pieces around his economic agenda that
Speaker 9: I think we could agree on, same thing, probably with
Speaker 9: Byron Donald's. But like, what tell me what happens when
Speaker 9: you don't think about your Jamaican grandparents as all this
Speaker 9: stuff is going down, right, Like, I just have some
Speaker 9: fundamental questions.
Speaker 3: Sott will never come on this show, but Senator Scott,
Speaker 3: we would love.
Speaker 4: To have you.
Speaker 3: You're welcome home here. We'd love to hear from you,
Speaker 3: Senator Scott.
Speaker 1: Anyway, I just wanted to ask that because sometimes the
Speaker 1: tactics and strategies are so far over here that I
Speaker 1: can't get with it, and I wanted to be transparent
Speaker 1: about my own disconnect and just things I don't know,
Speaker 1: you know, like the people I talk to don't represent everybody,
Speaker 1: But I just know some people who don't feel.
Speaker 6: What they may but when they hear you, they may
Speaker 6: feel themselves heard, seen and represented.
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 6: I mean, I think it is important to be curious
Speaker 6: about what we don't know and what we haven't experience,
Speaker 6: and from the way I exercise it is by trying
Speaker 6: to take away the value judgment on whatever it is
Speaker 6: and just deal with the thing I do or don't know,
Speaker 6: or want to find out and want to know better,
Speaker 6: because it stops a lot of us from engaging in
Speaker 6: certain ideas and accepting certain truths when we can't get
Speaker 6: past the we have of of the source by which
Speaker 6: is coming through and if that becomes the order of
Speaker 6: the day, and it has already in so many pockets
Speaker 6: of our society, that what I think about you is
Speaker 6: what you are, What I think about the work you
Speaker 6: do is exactly what it is. And there's an absence
Speaker 6: of any curiousity around. Like I thought y'all were burning
Speaker 6: babies in there.
Speaker 5: I read you know.
Speaker 4: It's like we're turning people off right there.
Speaker 6: And I would just dare people to choose to be
Speaker 6: more curious and less judging about what's.
Speaker 8: Different we have we have.
Speaker 1: I just yes, I just forgot what we're doing here. Yes,
Speaker 1: I was about to say something and my thought was interrupted.
Speaker 1: One can our producer off camera go get our guests.
Speaker 1: I would like to invite the guests on please thank
Speaker 1: you anyway?
Speaker 3: Can I surprise the audience y'all? I heard you say
Speaker 3: you could have just been quiet and let the audience.
Speaker 9: If you offer a random guest on, it's going to
Speaker 9: be a dog.
Speaker 8: Let me bet that dog.
Speaker 4: I want to put that.
Speaker 1: Joining us. Okay, so don't go anywhere. We'll be right
Speaker 1: back with our guests and c t a s.
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, we have watched.
Speaker 8: Watch God.
Speaker 3: This is our sweet little little bit dog.
Speaker 8: Let me bet that down. Why is why is the
Speaker 8: dog shaking diff.
Speaker 9: Because he was just she was just carried in here,
Speaker 9: he said, about to look at the earlier, but she didn't.
Speaker 8: Okay, she looked.
Speaker 3: Camera in the sweet little baby, sweet little baby, she's
Speaker 3: so spoiled.
Speaker 1: If you're not constantly petting her, she's petting you anyway.
Speaker 1: My c is because I love to be kind of animals.
Speaker 1: They are furry friends. And look at I like pitbulls,
Speaker 1: y'all know they're it is like just just a needy dog.
Speaker 2: She literally.
Speaker 3: I want to pit bull. You're my baby's but she's
Speaker 3: so cute.
Speaker 8: I just want to her to exposed tips breastfeed.
Speaker 4: Give me your takeaway, what's your all to action?
Speaker 8: I'm just astonished. Did y'all hear TIFF's doggy voice?
Speaker 6: Do it?
Speaker 8: That is nuts. Anyway, my call to action.
Speaker 4: Is there's gonna be people. Baby. If you're in the
Speaker 4: A t L, don't talk about it, be about it.
Speaker 9: We're saying we and saying we're doing ten cities, but
Speaker 9: it's technically twelve because we split up rally Durham and
Speaker 9: Birmingham and Montgomery.
Speaker 8: Is that eleven or twelve? Anyway? We are.
Speaker 9: Going to be starting in Atlanta with community service. We
Speaker 9: are helping to pack boxes for seniors and kids on
Speaker 9: Saturday morning at nine. We will also be.
Speaker 8: Giving books with those boxes, some banded books, gonna pat
Speaker 8: that doll book and so. But we want you to register.
Speaker 9: We want you to register right away at stateofthepp L
Speaker 9: dot com. From there we go to we have a
Speaker 9: rally Sunday, and then we go to Durham and then
Speaker 9: to Raleigh.
Speaker 8: We're gonna rally and Raleigh Leigh.
Speaker 9: I'm just fascinated by this dog situation.
Speaker 8: I want to pay that gypoil.
Speaker 6: Tell us how many election days when you get a rest,
Speaker 6: hopefully soon.
Speaker 8: I'm gonna tell you guys, honestly, I think she.
Speaker 4: Don't like you.
Speaker 8: She wants pets from everybody. My hands is up.
Speaker 3: It's okay if people can see you. This is her dad,
Speaker 3: you guys, he's gonna he's gonna get her.
Speaker 1: Look, she's like, I'm getting pets anyway. Sorry, you guys
Speaker 1: who are who don't have the privilege of seeing this
Speaker 1: beautiful dog if you're just listening. But she's so cute,
Speaker 1: she's sweet. She's not a schizophrenic, you know. Yeah, she's
Speaker 1: so spoiled. You can tell she's spoiled because she needs
Speaker 1: pets all the time. But that's that's Angela's call the action. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we did ours, Angela.
Speaker 3: Who else can you tell them? How many days andrew.
Speaker 8: We have?
Speaker 3: We don't have midterms, is the question.
Speaker 4: We will.
Speaker 8: Five and fifty eight days until the midterm election.
Speaker 4: That's when they come.
Speaker 8: Welcome home, y'all, Welcome home everybody.
Speaker 2: Thank you for joining the natives. Attention to what the
Speaker 2: info and all of the latest rock gulum and cross
Speaker 2: connected to the statements.
Speaker 4: That you leave on our socihos.
Speaker 2: Thank you sincerely for the patients reason for your choice
Speaker 2: is clear. So grateful too to execute roads. Thank you
Speaker 2: for serve, defend and protect the truth.
Speaker 3: Even in case.
Speaker 4: We'll welcome home to all of the natives. Wait, thank you.
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