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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder.

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Speaker 2: That's Georgia Hartstart, that's Karen Kilgariff, and we're just casually

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Speaker 2: podcasting for your entertainment.

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Speaker 1: Can you see that I have a nap crease in

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Speaker 1: my face? In the face as I'm podcasting on Netflix?

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Speaker 2: Is it a vertical or horizontal?

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Speaker 1: It's what's that way?

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Speaker 2: Horizontal?

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Speaker 1: Thank you?

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Speaker 2: Like the horizon.

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Speaker 1: Like the horizon.

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Speaker 2: It's as wide as the horizon across your cheek.

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Speaker 1: That's how together my shit is is that I just

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Speaker 1: show up with a fucking nap crease.

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Speaker 2: I mean I was literally at four US seven minutes

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Speaker 2: before this show started, in a kind of wild attempt

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Speaker 2: to like maybe this will help, maybe this lipstick will

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Speaker 2: solve it. Absolutely, And I feel like I need to

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Speaker 2: just say a public generalized apology to people who work

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Speaker 2: at Sephora. I couldn't be ruder, really, I don't want

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Speaker 2: to be rude at all. I want to look at lipstick,

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Speaker 2: I want to touch foundation. I want to see all

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Speaker 2: the new things that all my friends on the internet

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Speaker 2: talk about, and I want to interact with them, and

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Speaker 2: I don't want to interact with anybody else.

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Speaker 1: How come though, when you need help you can't find anybody.

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Speaker 1: Is this the stand up routine?

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Speaker 2: This is the funniest stand up routine we've ever written

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Speaker 2: on this show.

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Speaker 1: But then when you ask them for help, then they

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Speaker 1: use their brushes on you, and I don't want your

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Speaker 1: brushes on my face.

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Speaker 2: You've got to find the person that works there. And

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Speaker 2: for me, it's usually the woman that's closer to us. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: for sure, completely, And she's always kind of looking at

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Speaker 2: me and like almost afraids it. You know, I still

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Speaker 2: don't need help, but if I do, absolutely that's the

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Speaker 2: person I'm going to where it's like, hey, help me

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Speaker 2: fix this, this and that.

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Speaker 1: It's like when you see those videos influencers going tips

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Speaker 1: that made you look as good as I did in

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Speaker 1: my twenties in my thirties, and you're like, it's fucking

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Speaker 1: collegen bitch, and you it's not. There's no tip. You're

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Speaker 1: not special yet.

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Speaker 2: No, you haven't hacked anything.

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Speaker 1: Tell me you hacked.

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Speaker 2: Nine on a logical age exactly, you're just doing. It's

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Speaker 2: the thing like when I used to love to mouth

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Speaker 2: off about in my thirties of like I would never

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Speaker 2: get plastic surgery, and it's like correct, thirty year old

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Speaker 2: you would never get pussy surgery.

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Speaker 1: Just wait till fifty five year old you shows that sure.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, I wish I had gotten it in

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Speaker 1: my thirties so I could have all that time to

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Speaker 1: look fucking great.

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Speaker 2: The POV that you have at any time in life

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Speaker 2: is simply just the information you've gotten up until that point.

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Speaker 1: Because I know there's some chick who in her sixty

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Speaker 1: is going to be shut the fuck up of gra

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Speaker 1: six talking about your potox.

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Speaker 2: Yes, always I will, so we will shut up. And

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Speaker 2: so that's why I'm not talking about our silent true

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Speaker 2: crime podcast.

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Speaker 1: For the rest you know it is. Maybe going to

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Speaker 1: help me is fifty five days without alcohol.

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Speaker 2: Real beauty treatment, I mean for real. Your skin is glowing.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: You really can't see it.

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Speaker 1: How does it feel great? It's good. It's I feel

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Speaker 1: I have less anxiety. As my therapist told me for

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Speaker 1: the past ten years, I would less anxiety. Depression is

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Speaker 1: the same. But that's just me. But it's a slow build,

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Speaker 1: It's it's nothing.

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Speaker 2: If it worked immediately, everyone would do totally totally. Well,

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Speaker 2: that's an adventure, that's like something new.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it does feel like I'm actually like excited for

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Speaker 1: the sixty days and the ninety days and the year

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Speaker 1: knock wood and what about you? What's up?

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Speaker 2: That's nice me. I'm just tracking your sobriety.

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Speaker 1: Got an app track your friend's sobriety.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't know about her today.

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Speaker 1: What if she doesn't do it today? God?

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Speaker 2: Can you imagine? I mean, here's the thing. Yeah, just

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Speaker 2: have fun with it. Yeah, I have fun.

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Speaker 1: I have a curiosity, which I think is smart important

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Speaker 1: in life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's new corner.

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Speaker 1: Shit, that's yeah.

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Speaker 2: Was there something that like inspired you in a positive

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Speaker 2: way you want to talk about?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean every quit lit book, every quit memoir

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Speaker 1: that I've read by a chick that's just like me

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Speaker 1: or totally not like me, has helped me so much

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Speaker 1: over the ten years that I've been listening and reading them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and over and over and over again. So just kind

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Speaker 1: of and then going to Italy and drinking every fucking

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Speaker 1: day with every meal, and then turning forty six. While

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Speaker 1: I was there, I was like, all right, let's not

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Speaker 1: wait until it's dire, Yes, let's do. And I saw

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Speaker 1: something that was like just in one of those books

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Speaker 1: that said, I don't want to die an addict, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, WHOA got hit me? And both my

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Speaker 1: siblings have quit alcohol, which I'm so impressed with and

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Speaker 1: competing with always always you will not be competitive. Sobriety,

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Speaker 1: that's the way to go.

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Speaker 2: Thing, that's your new genre.

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Speaker 1: And you know what else I did. I gamified it

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Speaker 1: in my calendar. Every day at night when I haven't

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Speaker 1: had a drink, I get a purple day, yeah or

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Speaker 1: whatever your favorite color. And then you see them all

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Speaker 1: in a row. It's exciting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a material because I think our brains

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Speaker 2: have a tendency to minimize real serious accomplishments. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: always be focusing on the lack or the other right

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Speaker 2: instead of like, hooray for me, I did this thing totally,

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Speaker 2: so hooray for you. You did a thing I did.

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Speaker 2: I just thought it was a regular Thursday. But we're

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Speaker 2: getting real and deep on this show, deep and disgusting.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of which, we've got a networks network, good one.

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Speaker 1: It's called Exactly Right Media Correct.

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Speaker 2: Here is highlights this week on Bananas Curtain. Scotti are

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Speaker 2: joined by Christine Schieffer, host of Beach to Sandy Water Too.

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Speaker 2: At the podcast, they all talk about the usual humanoid

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Speaker 2: robots working at a school in New York, a Pennsylvania

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Speaker 2: man who briefly was the world's first quadrillionaire, and the

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Speaker 2: guy who hiked six miles after impaling himself with the

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Speaker 2: pole man.

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Speaker 1: And speaking of Scotti Landis, he is the guest this

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Speaker 1: week on Dear Movies, I Love You, Millian Casey talk

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Speaker 1: about his area of expertise, which is actors playing sports terribly.

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Speaker 1: Plus they review the nineteen ninety eight blockbuster Armagetti.

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Speaker 2: Also, I don't know if everybody knows, but co host

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Speaker 2: of Bananas Scotty Landis is this screen writer for the

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Speaker 2: movie ma if you like that horror movie, that was

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Speaker 2: Scotty's idea. So him being on Deer Movies, I Love

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Speaker 2: You is so perfectfect. Then over on the Knife, Hannah

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Speaker 2: and Pasha are joined by our very own Paul Holes.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of cross pollenization happening on the network.

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Speaker 1: Call cross pollenization.

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Speaker 2: Now you did it, It's like I'm doing it. I

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Speaker 2: don't know I'm doing it. So Paul goes on The

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Speaker 2: Knife to discuss his audiobook Finding the Lost Girls, which

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Speaker 2: is all about the investigation of the serial killer Joseph Nasso,

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Speaker 2: which we did cover on the show, and Paul's ongoing

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Speaker 2: effort to identify the victims of those Martners.

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Speaker 1: Then breaking news over on Brief Resass. This is all

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Speaker 1: over the instagram. Sound'm so excited if you haven't heard

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Speaker 1: Michael Foote the fuck just darling of all darlings, It's

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Speaker 1: going to be on this new coming season of The

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Speaker 1: Trader's New Blood. So this week here Melissa answer all

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Speaker 1: your questions about that. Plus they cover recent election results

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Speaker 1: of viral ice video and Cash Burttel's announcement of an

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Speaker 1: indictment involving the Southern Poverty Law Center where Michael used

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Speaker 1: to work. Yeah, lots of fucking crazy good stuff happening

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Speaker 1: over there. I love Brief Recess.

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Speaker 2: It's one of my favorites of the new shows that

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Speaker 2: we have right now. Melissa, of course, genius, definitely. But

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Speaker 2: Michael is the kind of person who can be an

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Speaker 2: immigration lawyer in New York City for real, be able

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Speaker 2: to TikTok about it in a way that makes people

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Speaker 2: love and support him, and then do this podcast and

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Speaker 2: then go on Traders. It's like, I don't understand he

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Speaker 2: does it all.

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Speaker 1: He's in his thirties, is that true. We used to

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Speaker 1: do that. We used to defend the innocence. We used

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Speaker 1: to do things yay back in our thirties.

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Speaker 2: That listen, we have done. We have done a lot

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Speaker 2: of things.

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Speaker 1: Take nothing away from Michael Foot.

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Speaker 2: No, no, of course, but we ourselves we've done things,

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Speaker 2: and we actually make podcasts where we remember the things

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Speaker 2: that we've done.

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Speaker 1: I've done so many things in my thirties. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: we're good.

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Speaker 2: A lot of them take place in Rewind with Karen

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Speaker 2: and Georgia, which is our show, right, I was.

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Speaker 1: Doing a little bridge.

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Speaker 2: We recap episode one ten this week it's our live

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Speaker 2: show and Columbus And during that show we give out

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Speaker 2: a book called Creative Cooking with Aluminum Foil. And it

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Speaker 2: turns out our writer Alison Augusti found a copy for us.

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Speaker 2: Got to look at and hold in our hands once again.

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Speaker 1: Look at that meat substance on the cover of it.

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Speaker 1: It's just shank of some sort.

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Speaker 2: It kind of is like you think at first glance

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Speaker 2: that that is a chicken, but then you look at

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Speaker 2: the shape and you're like, that's a starfish.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a sign of warm beer. There's some kind

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Speaker 1: of shredded mayonnaise based salad. And then here is thankfully

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Speaker 1: Alison bookmarked it attemptees yes, which sounds so disgusting.

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Speaker 2: And does involve dill relish.

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Speaker 1: Here's one for you. It's called Wait a While potatoes.

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Speaker 1: I'm not fucking making that up.

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Speaker 2: That's where you throw them in the oven for eight

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Speaker 2: hours until the kids come home.

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Speaker 1: They can just take a couple of uppers. Vacuum vacuum.

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Speaker 1: I love that we're both vacuum. So yeah, rewind with

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Speaker 1: Karen and Georgia. That's really fun. You guys to check

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Speaker 1: it out if you haven't fucking my favorite murder all

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Speaker 1: week long.

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Speaker 2: God, just go inside the frame and inside the frame.

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Speaker 1: That's right in the merch corner. We still have some

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Speaker 1: wheat Woo whistles available.

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Speaker 2: I've never have we I don't think we ever have.

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Speaker 1: Prepare Aristotle and these are just great whistles to have

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Speaker 1: on your keychain, and the proceeds benefit the National Immigration

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Speaker 1: Law Center, So grab yours while they still last at

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Speaker 1: exactly right store.

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Speaker 2: Dot Com'd send one to Michael foot Wheat. Wow. Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: here's the quietest this could be.

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Speaker 1: Okay, as somebody who can't whistle from there, which is

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Speaker 1: like one of my great shames was in life.

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Speaker 2: As it should be. I know, I hope that doesn't

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Speaker 2: knock you off the wagon.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate this. You know how many dogs haven't come

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Speaker 1: to me because I couldn't whistle at it? Wat wo,

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Speaker 1: wheat wo. Here's your answer. That's right, okaypset knocks you off? Karen,

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Speaker 1: Marie kill garat you could not.

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Speaker 2: It's just for the show. It's just for content, because.

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Speaker 1: I'll fucking do it, all right. Fucking what pushed you

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Speaker 1: over the edge?

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Speaker 2: Karen made me do it. I had to walk down

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Speaker 2: under the overpass and go to the secret bar. I

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Speaker 2: ver even goes to at this office.

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Speaker 1: Georgia goes first, that's me, what are you doing? Oh,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna spring with that shit.

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Speaker 2: We put this on before every show and I forgot.

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Speaker 1: Oh shit, that's why it sucked so bad this whole.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's why it's not working.

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Speaker 1: Oh, let's start over.

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Speaker 2: It's just ninety eight degrees outside with a hot wind

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Speaker 2: blowing and so moisture.

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Speaker 1: Hot like burbank like smoggy airport winds.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So every just everything feels like it's got a little

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Speaker 1: like thin layer of asphalt. Yeah. On it.

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Speaker 2: It's a thick, gritty wind that blows today America in

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Speaker 2: Bourbon and beautiful Bourbon.

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Speaker 1: There is in a tree in site except for those

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Speaker 1: ones that power WiFi. Yeah, oh yeah, let's get serious.

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Speaker 2: Let's start talking about the things that people are actually

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Speaker 2: here to hear about.

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Speaker 1: True crime. True crime. Alorajoja speaking of gritty cities that

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Speaker 1: are covered in asphalt. Today we are in Atlanta.

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Speaker 2: I really want to make a joke, but how if

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Speaker 2: you're going to talk gritty cities, you must be talking

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Speaker 2: about Philadelphia. But that's kind of a sports reference.

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Speaker 1: Oh I don't get it.

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Speaker 2: You know gritty the big mascote.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's fun.

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Speaker 2: He's from Philadelphia, right, Yeah, he has a scrunchy as

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Speaker 2: a belly button.

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Speaker 1: That is facts to know about Philly.

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Speaker 2: This whole production is off the rails, a pot over scrunchy.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this is a serious part, that's right. Today's story

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Speaker 1: is about a serial killer in the eighties, and the

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Speaker 1: main sources for the story is reporting from the Atlanta

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Speaker 1: Journal Constitution and the rescue be found in our show notes.

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Speaker 1: So I'm just going to get into it. So it's

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Speaker 1: the mid eighties and we're in Atlanta, Georgia. Crime in

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Speaker 1: Atlanta at this time is bad. We've got high violent

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Speaker 1: crime rates. There's ermin decay. Of course, the impact of

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Speaker 1: the crack cocaine epidemic can't be understated. Statistic strength Atlanta

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Speaker 1: among the top major US cities for violent crime including robbery,

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Speaker 1: aggravated assault, and homicide. Just a couple of years before

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Speaker 1: the story takes place, in nineteen eighty two, the Atlanta

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Speaker 1: child murders, or at least twenty nine black children, teens

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Speaker 1: and young adults, mostly boys, were murdered or went missing

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Speaker 1: during a two year spree and that had finally been

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Speaker 1: allegedly solved by police who had been very slow to

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Speaker 1: act on this spree, and they tied all the murders

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Speaker 1: together and tried one man on two of the case.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we've talked about the podcast Atlanta Monster before.

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Speaker 1: Check that out if you want to hear more about

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Speaker 1: it from our friend Payne Lindsay.

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Speaker 2: And season two of mind Hunter, which actually centers those

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Speaker 2: black mothers that had to fight and fight and fight.

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Speaker 2: They are the reason just to be heard. It's really

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Speaker 2: powerful and amazing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a really great documentary about it as well.

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Speaker 1: So one telling fact that I found while researching Atlanta

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Speaker 1: back then and what it was like and how not

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Speaker 1: safe it was, is that the residents had a trend

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Speaker 1: of nicknaming their neighborhood Kroger stores the way we have

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Speaker 1: like rock and roll ralves in Hollywood and hipster ralps

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Speaker 1: for you know, the neighborhood grocery stores. So those are

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Speaker 1: Kroger grocery stores. So there's a disco Kroger, a Kosher

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Speaker 1: Kroger because it's in the kosher neighborhood that's also nicknamed Kroscher,

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Speaker 1: a stinky Kroger, a gay Kroger, and who's is in

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Speaker 1: the gay town? Yeah? And also there was a Kroger

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Speaker 1: in the Ponce Highland area that's been known for decades

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Speaker 1: and is still known for good reason as murder Kroger. Whoa,

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Speaker 1: it's just a murder Kroger. Wow. And yes they have merch,

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Speaker 1: not them, but there is merch a murder murder.

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Speaker 2: Some smart neighbor was like, you know what is needed here?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? And also I want to I want to make

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Speaker 1: a note that I want to cover Murder Kroger because

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Speaker 1: it's its story.

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Speaker 2: On it and if you're not about to do that. No,

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Speaker 2: don't waste my time.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, God a shit, Okay, sorry, don't you do it?

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Speaker 1: You'll do I'll definitely do it sometime. But this story

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Speaker 1: isn't about that. Today's story is about a serial killer

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Speaker 1: in the eighties in Atlanta who went under the radar.

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Speaker 1: You hat another one, in part because his victims came

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Speaker 1: from a marginalized community. Again, and it took two Atlanta

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Speaker 1: homicide detectives, also from marginalized communities, to put together the

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Speaker 1: pieces and realize they were looking for a serial killer.

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Speaker 1: This is a story of Michael Terry and the two

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Speaker 1: detectives who tracked him down. Wow, not a cold case.

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Speaker 1: So this brings us to October of nineteen eighty six,

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Speaker 1: where two homicide detectives have each been assigned a separate case.

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Speaker 1: The detectives are Sheila Cumberworth, who had been one of

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Speaker 1: the first three female homicide detectives in Atlanta when she

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Speaker 1: was promoted four years earlier, and then also Marcellus Head,

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Speaker 1: who had been in homicide for six and a half years.

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Speaker 1: So Sheila's thirty nine and Marcellus is forty three, and

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Speaker 1: before becoming police officers, you know, they're a little older.

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Speaker 1: Each had had other careers. Sheila had been a key

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Speaker 1: punch operator at a Fredo Lay factory, and Marcellus had

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Speaker 1: been a bus driver in Cleveland, but both had moved

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Speaker 1: to Atlanta in search of warmer weather. Sheila lives with

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Speaker 1: her sister and her sixteen year old niece, and Marcellus

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Speaker 1: is married and has an eleven year old son. So

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Speaker 1: here's a photo of the two of them, but they

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Speaker 1: don't work together just yet in this story. It's mentioned

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Speaker 1: in stories about this case that Sheila had been one

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Speaker 1: of the first female homicide detectives in the city, but

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Speaker 1: other than that, the fact that she's a woman and

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Speaker 1: Marcellus is black doesn't seem to come up very much.

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Speaker 1: Atlanta had hired its first black police officers forty years earlier,

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Speaker 1: though their roles were severely restricted and at times a

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Speaker 1: large proportion of it. Alanta police officers had been members

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Speaker 1: of the KKK by the eighties. The Atlanta Police Force

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Speaker 1: has more black officers who have the same responsibilities as

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Speaker 1: their white colleagues, but an internal investigation done right around

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Speaker 1: this time shows that the department is deeply divided along

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Speaker 1: racial lines, so it seems relevant to mention this as

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Speaker 1: it is these two officers specifically, who are going to

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Speaker 1: connect the dots in a rash of murders in which

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Speaker 1: the victims are from a marginalized community. So by this point,

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Speaker 1: Sheila and Marcellus would both be considered fairly experienced homicide detectives,

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Speaker 1: and at first their respective cases are upsetting, but not

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Speaker 1: particularly out of the norm for Atlanta at the time.

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Speaker 1: In each case, the young victim, both of their young victims,

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Speaker 1: is a black man and had worked as a sex worker.

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Speaker 1: They had basically identified as street hustlers.

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Speaker 2: It's such that point of view is so from the patriarchy, like, eh,

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Speaker 2: these sex workers try to hustle me out of my money,

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Speaker 2: totally that I am exploiting.

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Speaker 1: I'm not tricking you paying for sex work. You started it, sir, truly.

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Speaker 1: So at first Sheila and Marcellus are each individually investigating

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Speaker 1: these cases without knowing any of the bigger picture about

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Speaker 1: what anyone else is working on so separately. As I've said, so,

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Speaker 1: the most recent victim had been discovered on October twentieth.

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Speaker 1: His name is Darryl O. Williams, and he's a drifter

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Speaker 1: and just twenty years old. He had been found in

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Speaker 1: an abandoned apartment building on Mason Turner Road, just west

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Speaker 1: of downtown Atlanta. Prior to that, the body of a

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Speaker 1: thirty year old man named George Willingham had been discovered

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Speaker 1: in a vacant field just east of downtown off Ponce

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Speaker 1: de Leon Avenue. Both men had been shot in the

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Speaker 1: back of the head. George Willingham also had three knife wounds.

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Speaker 1: A few days after discovery of Darrell's body, the homicide

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Speaker 1: Division comes together for a meeting where all pending cases

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Speaker 1: are discussed, and this is where Sheila and Marcellus are

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Speaker 1: each presenting their own cases, and they realize that there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of similarities between their cases, and then as

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Speaker 1: they could parent notes with their colleagues, they realize that

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Speaker 1: there are other cases that are very similar to the

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Speaker 1: ones they have that have come up in the past year.

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Speaker 1: In fact, Daryl's body had been found pretty much just

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Speaker 1: a few steps away from where another young man's body

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Speaker 1: had been discovered in December of nineteen eighty five, almost

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Speaker 1: a year earlier. So after reviewing the cases, Marcellus and

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Speaker 1: Sheila find a total of six cases they believed to

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Speaker 1: be linked.

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Speaker 2: Four of that feeling of just like you keep on

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Speaker 2: finding that.

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Speaker 1: You keep on finding, and that might like not even

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Speaker 1: be all of them for all they know. And I know,

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Speaker 1: so four out of the six victims had been shot

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Speaker 1: and two had been stabbed. Five out of the six

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Speaker 1: had been found undressed from the waist down. All six

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Speaker 1: had been young black male sex workers. Most had been

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Speaker 1: discovered in areas where at least one other body had

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Speaker 1: also been found. Marcellus and Sheila get permission from their

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Speaker 1: boss to take on all six cases between the two

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Speaker 1: of them. And this is, you know, when I was

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Speaker 1: doing this research and kind of refreshing my knowledge of

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Speaker 1: the Atlanta child killers. Part of the huge horrible issue

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Speaker 1: of that case is it took so long and so

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Speaker 1: many victims for the police to actually even say that

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Speaker 1: it had anything to do with a murderer or not,

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Speaker 1: kind of blaming the victims before they even would look

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Speaker 1: into these cases and saying they're related in anyway. So

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Speaker 1: I think at this point, and the city got a

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Speaker 1: lot of flack for that, you know, correctly. So I

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Speaker 1: think at this point they were like, go ahead, we.

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Speaker 2: Don't need this, make your connections. Yeah, let us know

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Speaker 2: what you think is going on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're you know trying to get tourists in

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Speaker 1: business to come to their town. They want this out

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Speaker 1: of the way. So the first known victim who fits

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Speaker 1: this pattern is a young man named Richard Williams, who

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Speaker 1: had been killed almost a year earlier in December of

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five. He had been found in a different

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Speaker 1: abandoned building very close to Ward Darryl, the final victim

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Speaker 1: had been found so Richard had been twenty four years old.

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Speaker 1: He had been shot in the back of the head

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Speaker 1: and also had two kniph wounds on his body. The

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Speaker 1: second known victim had been discovered about a week later,

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Speaker 1: in December fourteenth. His name is Curtis Lee Brown and

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Speaker 1: he was twenty one and his girlfriend had filed a

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Speaker 1: missing persons report. He was discovered in Dean Rusk Park,

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Speaker 1: which has a big pond and wooded areas and is

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Speaker 1: southwest of downtown, right next to the Moorhouse College campus.

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Speaker 1: The third and fourth victims had been killed about three

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Speaker 1: weeks apart from one another, but both in the same location.

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Speaker 1: Their names are Alvin George and Jason McAuley. Alvin had

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Speaker 1: been thirty one and Jason had just been eighteen years old.

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Speaker 1: Alvin's body is discovered on March twentieth, nineteen eighty six,

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Speaker 1: and Jason's body is discovered on April sixth, and they're

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Speaker 1: both discovered in the same alleyway behind the same apartment

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Speaker 1: building on Kensaw Avenue. And it's sometimes described as an

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Speaker 1: apartment building, it seems more like a boarding house. It's

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Speaker 1: described as that as well. It's basically a house with

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Speaker 1: a bunch of rooms and they're rented individually. There's bathrooms

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Speaker 1: in kitchen is shared. So about six months past until

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Speaker 1: Darryl and George are killed, and those were the cases

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Speaker 1: that had been initially assigned to Sheila and Marcellus. And

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Speaker 1: as they dig into these cases, they realized that Darryl

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Speaker 1: and George had been killed with the same gun, and

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Speaker 1: Richard and Curtis, the first and second victims, had been

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Speaker 1: killed with a different gun than the one used in

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Speaker 1: the most recent murders, but had likely been the same

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Speaker 1: weapon in both of those cases. Alvin and Jason, the

438
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,200
Speaker 1: two found behind the boarding house, had been stabbed. So unfortunately,

439
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,880
Speaker 1: there's not munch information in the news articles about who

440
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,919
Speaker 1: these victims were and about their families. We mostly just

441
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 1: know that they were young black men who were alleged

442
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,880
Speaker 1: sex workers, but as Marcellus and Sheila start to talk

443
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,960
Speaker 1: to people who knew them, they realized that even though

444
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 1: all these men were discovered in different parts of the city,

445
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 1: they all tended to initially meet clients in two specific areas,

446
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,199
Speaker 1: either by Georgia Baptist Hospital or near the intersection of

447
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,880
Speaker 1: Ashby Street and Martin Luther King Drive, which I think

448
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 1: is just you know, neighborhoods for that kind of activity.

449
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 1: So Sheila and Marcellus start interviewing witnesses in these two areas.

450
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,920
Speaker 1: They ask about who these men had been last seen

451
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,200
Speaker 1: talking to and who came around often, and potential witnesses

452
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:09,160
Speaker 1: described seeing an overweight, stocky blackmail known only as Mike

453
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,439
Speaker 1: as the last man they saw with each respective victim.

454
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 1: So they find out that his name is Michael Terry.

455
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,480
Speaker 1: He's twenty six years old and works at a local

456
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 1: tire shop. He's known to be quiet and to not

457
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,120
Speaker 1: approach people, but he just hangs out and then when

458
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 1: the street hustlers approach him ben he'll often accept. Sheila

459
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 1: and Marcellus decide he's worth tracking down, and when they

460
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 1: look up his address, they realize he lives in the

461
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,439
Speaker 1: boarding house in front of the alley where Alvin and

462
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 1: Jason's bodies had been found.

463
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 2: That's not good. No, that's not a good sign.

464
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 1: And I wonder if this case would have been more

465
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: well known if it had blasted longer, if it had

466
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 1: gone cold. But these two incredible detectives come in quickly,

467
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 1: put it all together, like they do what we wish everyone, yeah,

468
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 1: could and would.

469
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 2: Do, if only it could be this right clear for

470
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,160
Speaker 2: people and fast exactly.

471
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 1: Marcellus later tells reporters, quote, we got the new and

472
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 1: a photograph, and we had two victims in the backyard

473
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 1: at the rooming house, and that was too big of

474
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 1: a coincidence. End quote. It is enough to get two warrants,

475
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,400
Speaker 1: one for Terry's arrest and one to search his room

476
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: at the boarding house, and there they find multiple guns.

477
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: The neighbors say that Michael almost always carried a firearm.

478
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:20,679
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's legal or legal back then.

479
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: I'm guessing it's legal in Atlanta in the eighties.

480
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe right, but still notable. And one sounds like

481
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 2: it was necessary, right, I mean.

482
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 1: One says, quote, he didn't even go downstairs to the

483
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: kitchen without his gun. Oh end quote other than this

484
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,479
Speaker 1: one unsettling habit. Neighbors say that Terry appears to be

485
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 1: pretty quiet aka a quote strange loaner. Little is known

486
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: about his personal life, but after dropping out of tenth grade,

487
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 1: Terry evidently began committing small crimes, amassing convictions for burglary, robbery,

488
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 1: simple battery, aggravated assault, and carrying an unlicensed firearm. Michael

489
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: Terry is arrested at his job on Wednesday, November twenty sixth,

490
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,360
Speaker 1: and shortly after his arrest, he confesses to all six murders. Wow,

491
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: just like that. Though he claims that he murdered these

492
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: young men due to arguments over money and they weren't premeditated,

493
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 1: though investigators think this is unlikely to be the case

494
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 1: six people in a year.

495
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 2: No, sir, we don't accept that. Right.

496
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 1: That's very strange, and given Michael Terry's large size and

497
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 1: his victim's smaller builds, it seems unlikely that they would

498
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 1: have messed with him in the first.

499
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 2: Place physically been that threatening to him.

500
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: Exactly right. Terry's charged with all six murders. He's tried

501
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: for the killings of Richard Williams, Curtis Brown, and George Willingham,

502
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: which I guess the prosecutors wanted to save the other

503
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 1: convictions in case he ever got bail or you know,

504
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: was let out. Michael Terry then pleads guilty to the

505
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: rest of the murders and is serving multiple life sentences.

506
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 1: So Detective Sheila Cumberworth works for the Atlanta Police Department

507
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: for about another ten years after this, having served a

508
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: total of twenty seven years in the department. She dies

509
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: at the age of sixty five and twenty twenty one.

510
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 1: Detective Marcellus Head also has a long career in the

511
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 1: Atlanta Police Department and eventually works as the Mayor's personal

512
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: security officer. Here's a photo of him as an older man.

513
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: Oh so cute.

514
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 2: That guy is buying around a drinks absolutely at the

515
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 2: pizza parlor just at Karao Gears, and you hope.

516
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: He starts telling you a story of his past. He

517
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,360
Speaker 1: passes away unfortunately in twenty twenty four at the age

518
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: of eighty three. And then I checked our email or

519
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 1: my favorite murder at Gmail email to see if anyone

520
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: had written in about this. One person had named Selena.

521
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: We had dozens of emails about murder Kroger. Oh really, yes,

522
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: really wanted us to know about murder Kroger. Wow, but

523
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: only one about this case. And it's from a murderino

524
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: named Selena, and part of her email just read says quote.

525
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: It's the nineteen eighties and the then US murder capital

526
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 1: of Atlanta, Georgia. My dad's cousin has decided he wants

527
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: to go back to college to be a psychiatrist. Due

528
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: to the price, though, he needed to find a job

529
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: first to save up. With some support from old professors

530
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 1: and friends, he was able to snatch up a job

531
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: working at Georgia's forensic Crime Lab. In his time there,

532
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: he helped out on a lot of cases, but none

533
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: shook him more like the string of rapes and murders

534
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: between nineteen eighty five and eighty six. Thanks to some

535
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: fantastic work by the Georgia Crime Lab, and it says

536
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: wink wink, they were able to tie the murders of

537
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: Williams to a third murder using ballistics. So tying those

538
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: bullets together? Is this chick's fucking cousin, her dad's cousin.

539
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Yeah, my dad's cousin as a gay man

540
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: living in Atlanta, at the time really fixated on this case.

541
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: He took it personally and helped work on matching the

542
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 1: forensic evidence. He grew up at a time when gay

543
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: bars had to black out their windows and higher security

544
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: to protect themselves from assholes in the AIDS crisis of

545
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties. He wanted to work medicine. Murderers like

546
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: Terry reminded him of the very danger life posed. In

547
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: the end, he found that the pupil focused more on

548
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: the sexuality of Terry than the fact that he was

549
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: some sexual statist who was hurting real victims who were gay.

550
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

551
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 1: End quote. And that is the story of the two

552
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: Atlanta homicide detectives who brought down serial killer Michael Terry. Wow. Right.

553
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 2: I found this email today that gmails. It contains multitudes

554
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 2: and true treasure. Yeah, thank you Selena for writing that

555
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 2: in and thank you Georgia for doing the murder Kroger

556
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 2: story that you will be doing in an upcoming episode.

557
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:25,360
Speaker 1: Stay tuned.

558
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 2: Also, you have to do all nicknamed grocery stores from

559
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 2: now on, not.

560
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,959
Speaker 1: Just I want to know what's disc I think disco

561
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 1: Kroger has a disco ball.

562
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've heard or just the place everyone goes after hours.

563
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: Yes, I heard that one too, but I heard I

564
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: also have a disco.

565
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 2: Let us know, they literally do have disco ball. Oh

566
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 2: that's hilarious. I love to get to know a town

567
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 2: through details like that.

568
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,479
Speaker 1: That's the point. And that's like you know those videos

569
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: people make of like how I think I'm going to

570
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 1: be at a party and it's all fun and it's

571
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: how I really am, And it's mom dommy to talking

572
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 1: about nam Yahoo, I want mine is? Where are you from?

573
00:27:59,080 --> 00:27:59,199
Speaker 2: Oh?

574
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 1: Atlanta? So did you know about the Atlanta Cerea? Like

575
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,199
Speaker 1: just immediately, have you been to murder Croker?

576
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 2: Yeah?

577
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: Exactly? What do you know? Parties? That's what we think

578
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: we're like, but especially sober, we're a fucking not.

579
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 2: No, now you get to go and here's the thing,

580
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 2: you've built this nice true crime wall for yourself. Then

581
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 2: now you get to just reside solely and comfortably on

582
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 2: the other side of people know this about you. Hey,

583
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 2: it's just who you are. There's no more anxiety.

584
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,479
Speaker 1: No, it could be like can you stop talking about that?

585
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: Actually no, no, it's my literal career. Go get me

586
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: a mocktail.

587
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 2: No, make this party more fun for me, please.

588
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 1: Go get me drugs because it's just alcohol. Do the work,

589
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: do the drugs.

590
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 2: You're California, so exactly, you know what I'm going to

591
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 2: say to you about that one is so satisfying. The

592
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 2: inverse of a cold case story, right, a fast soft story. Yeah,

593
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 2: this is a whole new area that you could get

594
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 2: into and don't worry about it because Marcella's and Sheila

595
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 2: were on the case and they took care of business that. Well,

596
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 2: we're going to go a little very much in a

597
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 2: different direction, a little very much, because we're going to

598
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 2: go all the way back to nineteen seventy two. And

599
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 2: this is a story about a respected forty eight year

600
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 2: old Mexican anthropologist named Santiago Genevez. And he's a passenger

601
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 2: on a flight from Monterey to Mexico City in Mexico.

602
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 2: When halfway to their destination, this plane is hijacked by

603
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 2: a radical guerrilla organization and diverted to Cuba. It's an

604
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 2: act meant to pressure the Mexican government into releasing their

605
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 2: imprisoned comrades, and it eventually works. Actually, the good news

606
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 2: is no one is killed during this hijacking, although it

607
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 2: is probably safe to say most of the passengers on

608
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 2: that plane would classify this as a traumatizing experience, sure,

609
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 2: for sure. But Santiago Genevez sees it as a gift,

610
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 2: and that's because he has spent his career researching violent

611
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 2: human behavior. He would later be quoted as safe, I

612
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 2: sound it's too excited about.

613
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: It, exactly.

614
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 2: I've been researching that since I was twelve, orally with

615
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 2: the help of Steven, hence the drinking. Yes so much.

616
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: To blur out.

617
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 2: So he will later be quoted as saying, I was

618
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,719
Speaker 2: lucky to be hijacked on a plane and taken to Cuba.

619
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 2: I think I'm the only scientist studying aggression, violence and

620
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 2: friction who has really been kidnapped. Whoa UoT. So he

621
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 2: is particularly struck during this hijacking by how he and

622
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 2: the other passengers behaved. Things that would normally divide them

623
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 2: in daily life, like age, ethnicity, gender, or faith all

624
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 2: fell away in this life threatening moment, and this phenomenon

625
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 2: makes Genevez ask himself whether we as a species are

626
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 2: more apt to use violence or to use cooperation with

627
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,719
Speaker 2: others when we're trying to survive. Genevez thinks that if

628
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 2: he can answer this question, he could work toward a

629
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 2: more scientific understanding of how to stem conflict and work

630
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 2: towards peace all over the world.

631
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: That'd be great.

632
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 2: So he begins to design an experiment that would enable

633
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 2: him to study a small but diverse group of people

634
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 2: in a similarly isolated, volatile setting.

635
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: Oh no, okay's no, no, it's too late. So we're

636
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: already starting.

637
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 2: But instead of an airplane, he decides the setting of

638
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 2: this experiment will take place on a raft in the

639
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 2: open ocean. This is the story of how that experiment went.

640
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 2: It's been called the Acalli Expedition. It's also been called

641
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 2: the Peace Project, but we're going to call it by

642
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 2: its real name. This is the story of the sex Raft.

643
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: I've never heard of it. I thought we were going

644
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: full I thought we were just in a what's it called.

645
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 2: Like a laboratory, like a scientific experience.

646
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: Plane getting hijacked. I thought it was going to be

647
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: a hijacking.

648
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 2: Story going back.

649
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: No, no, no, And I was like, what a great

650
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: idea to like think of next time you're in a

651
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: panic situation. Think of it as a experiment or as observation.

652
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 2: Yes, becoming the observer is the trick totally because you

653
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,479
Speaker 2: suddenly are like, oh, well, if I have to remember

654
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 2: all this, I have to get out of experiencing it

655
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 2: and start looking at it.

656
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: Pretend you're a journalist, like you hear about all these

657
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: people who get attacked and they're like just focusing on

658
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: the little thing so they know what to tell, you know.

659
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 2: Yes, and getting through it that way.

660
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: But no, we're on a sex raft.

661
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 2: But it's we're doing the sex raft thing. So the

662
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 2: main source for this story today is a twenty eighteen

663
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 2: documentary called The Raft by director named Marcus Linden. The

664
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: rest of the sources are in our show notes. But

665
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 2: I found out about this story because, of course, I

666
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 2: was scrolling on TikTok in the middle of the night

667
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 2: and I saw a video by this creator is named

668
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 2: Dexter MP four. He's very funny, tells crazy stories, and

669
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 2: it was this video that made me go, why I've

670
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 2: never heard this.

671
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: The one and only sex raft. Yeah, I wouldn't personally

672
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: call that a raft.

673
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 2: So the word raft is used here, But this vessel, no,

674
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 2: it's more like a houseboat. That center part right covered.

675
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 2: It's a railing on the outside. It's basically a floating

676
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 2: square that is roughly the size of half a tennis court.

677
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, it looks like something you'd take from one

678
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: island to the next really quickly. It's not like a

679
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: cruise or a nice boat. It's just like right, gets

680
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: you over there.

681
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 2: They've got one big sail on the front. It's not

682
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 2: down in this picture, but that's where that mast is.

683
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 2: And right, well it's you know, Maren told me. Okay,

684
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 2: but for the listener, it's like a big square that's

685
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 2: red and white, and it's essentially like, let's see what

686
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 2: happens on this thing as we go across the ocean,

687
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 2: because you'll notice that middle square is too small for

688
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 2: like individual cabins or anything.

689
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: Tight. It's tight.

690
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 2: Oh, there's no motor on this.

691
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: Oh, hence the sail.

692
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 2: It is relying solely on the wind and the curtain.

693
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: I don't even know what's happening yet. Tell me everything,

694
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: because I might not care. If we're going just to

695
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: Macana Island.

696
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 2: For the day, that's right, just floating around.

697
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 1: How long are we going to be gone for? Well, well,

698
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: I'll tell you tell me everything.

699
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 2: Doctor Genevez names the rat the acolli, and that's from

700
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 2: the Indigenous Mexican language Nahuatl, and Acoli means the house

701
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 2: in the water. So the plan is to sail the

702
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 2: Acolie from the Canary Islands, which is off of Africa's

703
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 2: northwestern coast. You know, so did I to Cosamel, Mexico.

704
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 2: It's a dangerous month's long journey far that spans thousands

705
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 2: of miles across the open ocean.

706
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: There's not enough room for food on that.

707
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 2: It's not a realistic plan on but in the very

708
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 2: real open ocean, which I don't know why anyone goes

709
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 2: out there, do.

710
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: A short run first, so that if it goes horribly wrong,

711
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 1: you could just turn.

712
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 2: It around, right, don't do not from the Canarian and

713
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 2: takout from Cosamel to the neighboring port of fill in

714
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 2: the blank that I don't know I was going to be.

715
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 2: Its been amazing, Okay. To find participants, Doctor Genevez places

716
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 2: ads for volunteers in several international newspapers. About one hundred

717
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 2: or so people apply. He whittles them down to the

718
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 2: final ten, six women and four men. They represent all

719
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 2: different ethnicities, all different nationalities, and all different faiths. They

720
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 2: speak different languages, but they do have some things in common.

721
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 2: They're all in their twenties and thirties hot.

722
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 1: They're all hot. They're all hot for real. The original

723
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 1: Love Island it is.

724
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 2: This guy was a fucking visionary and he was trying

725
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 2: to be all scientific about it, and what he should

726
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 2: have done was been like, and I'll get my super

727
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 2: eight camera. Yeah, guys, do your thing.

728
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: It's sponsored by fucking White Claw.

729
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 2: What's nineteen seventy three? It's sponsored by James Cold.

730
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: Forty five, Bartles and James and Virginia slim My.

731
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 2: Dad is the most epic cult forty five T shirt

732
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 2: in this one picture from my childhood, and I realized

733
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 2: the reason I love it so much. It's the t

734
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 2: shirts Piccoli is wearing when the robber comes into the

735
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 2: seven to eleven. Wow for the quickie mart or whatever.

736
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: That's epic.

737
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 2: Back to what's really important here. Hot people on a boat.

738
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

739
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 2: So these are all the kind of people that are like,

740
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 2: oh sure, I'll do this fun thing. They're either adventurous

741
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 2: or they're looking to make big changes in their lives.

742
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 2: Many of them are married and have kids, and all

743
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 2: of this is basically intentional choices by doctor Genevez.

744
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: Hey, honey, real quick. I know we have children to

745
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: take care of, but I'm gonna real quick.

746
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,959
Speaker 2: I'm just for fun for eight to maybe fourteen months.

747
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 2: We're calling it the Sex Crews, but like not, you know,

748
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 2: it's scientific, so it's probably more about gender than anything. Oh,

749
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 2: Deck meets Love Islands and you don't know what that

750
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 2: means because it's nineteen seventy three.

751
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: But you will have another barters and jams while you're

752
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 1: pregnant and a Virginia Slim and I'll.

753
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 2: See it and I'll see you when I see it. Yeah,

754
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 2: I'll see you when that kid's in kindergarten. Basically, Genevez

755
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 2: has hypothesized that sex and violence are closely intertwined, so

756
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:51,240
Speaker 2: he wants to basically fuel sexual desire, frustration, and tension

757
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 2: and have that be some of the main features of

758
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 2: this experiment. Right, He's gonna Love Island his own people

759
00:36:58,880 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 2: and then see what they do.

760
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: Skeptical face. Well, so here's the thing.

761
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 2: He assigns everyone a job at sea, and he deliberately

762
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 2: puts the women in charge, and he is self proclaimed

763
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,359
Speaker 2: and has been described as a chauvinist. Basically, it's you know,

764
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 2: a kind of real a superstar of the early seventies.

765
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 2: The raft will be captained by a thirty year old

766
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,919
Speaker 2: Swede named Maria. The navigator is thirty six year old

767
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 2: American whose name is Mary. The doctor is a thirty

768
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 2: two year old Israeli woman named Edna, and for all

769
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 2: matters underwater, like maintenance of the vessel itself, they have

770
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 2: a thirty two year old French scuba diver named Servan,

771
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 2: who's also a woman. There are two other female participants,

772
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 2: an American radio operator named Fay and an Algerian named

773
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 2: Rashida who conducts a separate study on ocean pollution, so

774
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 2: she's a scientist that's also there to do something while

775
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 2: at the same time being the subject of an experiment

776
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 2: on it. At twenty three years old, both Fay and

777
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 2: Rashida are the youngest volunteers on board. We go over

778
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 2: to the men's side, so there's twenty nine year old Asuke.

779
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 2: He's from Japan and he is the ship photographer. There's

780
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 2: thirty seven year old Charles from Greece who is manning

781
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 2: the radios along with Fay. He's selling the ones and twos.

782
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 2: Then there's thirty four year old Jose from Uruguay who's

783
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 2: an anthropologist, and he was also Genovez's former student. And

784
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 2: there's also an Angolian priest named Bernardo, and he's been

785
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 2: chosen to be there to basically amplify the feelings of

786
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 2: guilt or shame around what Genovez is anticipating will be

787
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 2: the hot, hot sex happening on this tiny, strange boat.

788
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: That's bowls of condoms. Doubt it.

789
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 2: I mean there's nowhere to put them because we're on

790
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 2: half a tennis court. It's so small. Of course, men

791
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 2: serving the supporting roles to the women in leadership roles.

792
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 2: That's going to be a problem, according to Genevez, and

793
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 2: he claims that he got this idea because of hearing

794
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 2: about the women's liberation movement.

795
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 1: I was excited, but you pause when you said he's

796
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: a chauviness. I thought I were gonna say feminists and

797
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: be like, the only way this will work is if

798
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: women are in charge, because clearly men have had their

799
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: chance for fucking eons and have really really screwed it up.

800
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: Right now, it's a funny joke on everyone.

801
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 2: The women are or he thinks he's kind of like

802
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 2: planting the TNT. Yeah, right, It is an interesting experiment.

803
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, I still want to

804
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 2: make fun of it.

805
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: Okay.

806
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 2: Also there's you got to there's doctor Jeneves himself the

807
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 2: oldest passenger on board at forty nine. Of course he

808
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 2: mostly wants to date twenty three year old yoga instructorist.

809
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 2: He's there to document the results of this experiment, with

810
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 2: the presumption he will be a neutral participantor obviously, because

811
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 2: you can't oversee your experiment and also be involved in.

812
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: This, just gonna watch the fucking.

813
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 2: Write down some stuff. Oh and here's the growl.

814
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: Oh, they are attracted.

815
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 2: Get these sexy youngsters that.

816
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: Him with the beard. Look at those tiny little bikini bottoms.

817
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 2: On It would make sense everybody else. It's like I'm

818
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 2: seeing srongs, I see right.

819
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: They look like the United Colors of Benistan.

820
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 2: Yes, and also just on the good days, like they're

821
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 2: out there on this beautiful open ocean, just like yeah, and.

822
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 1: They're like, I'm away from my kids for three months.

823
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: I don't give a fuck for science.

824
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 2: For science, escaping children for science.

825
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: That is Santiago.

826
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 2: Well, you were right, good guess that was him.

827
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: As played by Brendan Walsh or that Irish guy in

828
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: bridesmaids and he's been nice cop. Yeah, Chris O'Dowd, definitely right.

829
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 2: They're in the center and you're so right. If you

830
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 2: want to know who's the troublemaker, just look for the

831
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 2: tiniest speedo.

832
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: He's the only one with gray hair.

833
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 2: You know.

834
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: They're all everyone's young and happy. Yeah, that's right.

835
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 2: And he's like, where's the hatred?

836
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: I need it? Okay.

837
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 2: So it's May of nineteen seventy three. The volunteers all

838
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 2: traveled with the Canaria Islands, and hours before they're set

839
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 2: to disembark together they meet for the first time. So

840
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 2: they're all just like, oh, are you an adventurer?

841
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: Or two?

842
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 2: I'm also hot. When they board the Acollie, they are

843
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 2: seen off by a very large crowd that includes members

844
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 2: of the international press, so people are following this story.

845
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 2: It is already nighttime when the raft is taken by

846
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 2: tugboat out into the open ocean and left there. The

847
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,240
Speaker 2: volunteers are now just on deck in the pitch black,

848
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 2: with the roar of the ocean all around them. No

849
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 2: motor sails away. The experiment has begun, and the waters,

850
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 2: of course rougher than anyone anticipated. So many of the

851
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 2: volunteers are immediately seasick. And this is when every sexy well,

852
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 2: because this is when everyone finds out about the bathroom.

853
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: What about the bathroom, I'll.

854
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 2: Tell you this right now. Volunteers realize that they have

855
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 2: to relieve themselves using a toilet like contraption built off

856
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 2: the back of the raft out in front of everybody.

857
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 2: How the assumption of a closed door bathroom, if it's

858
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 2: going to be anything else, you've got a specify.

859
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: Like turn around, can't be the extent of the privacy turn.

860
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 2: Around by every now and again, I take a shit

861
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 2: like away, look away.

862
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: Okay, okay.

863
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 2: They also have to bathe, change clothes, all of it

864
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 2: out in the open, And while everyone is put off

865
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 2: by the fact that there is no privacy, once they

866
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,720
Speaker 2: get their sea legs, everyone stops throwing up. Things actually

867
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 2: start to run kind of smoothly. They all know their assignments,

868
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 2: and despite speaking different languages, they're communicating well. They get

869
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 2: weather reports radioed in every two days. They use those

870
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 2: to navigate of course and plot the course, and all

871
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 2: the while Genevez regularly makes them fill out questionnaires or

872
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 2: answer questionnaires to him about the experience.

873
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: Yes, so the sex cruise has homework.

874
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, because this is an experiment sex cruise, So they

875
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 2: haven't worked out all the kinks of this sex cruise.

876
00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, not yet yet. Get on that toilet, on that

877
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 1: kink toilet.

878
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 2: Toilet like toilet. There's nothing scarier in the world than

879
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 2: the phrase toilet like. That's horrifying.

880
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: You know things are going to be bad when something

881
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,360
Speaker 1: is toilet like toilet adjacent.

882
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 2: How many nightmares have you had of going to the

883
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 2: bathroom out in the open, like in the middle of

884
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 2: the mall.

885
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 1: I always look.

886
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 2: That was always the thing where I'm like, so in

887
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 2: my bathroom last night or in my dream last night,

888
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 2: the bathroom it was my grammar school bathroom, but instead

889
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 2: of individual stalls, the toilet was up on a throne

890
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:32,879
Speaker 2: where you're just like, let's break it down.

891
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 1: You're reminded, like, literally the other night I had one.

892
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 1: You're reminding me.

893
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 2: It's a common nightmare.

894
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: Humiliating. Yeah.

895
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 2: So they start doing the work and just sailing and

896
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 2: getting it done. Now we're a month in and while

897
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 2: a couple of the participants have had sex, it isn't

898
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 2: happening at the level that doctor Jenevez was hoping it would,

899
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 2: and when it does, there's no lingering tension or jealousy

900
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 2: or unrequired desire leading to an explosion. Nothing like that

901
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 2: is happening. It's chill, okay. But Jenevez is certain that

902
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 2: this easygoing energy is going to dissipate as time goes by.

903
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 2: But once they're into the month of June, everyone's just

904
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 2: still managing fine. They actually tell stories about their lives

905
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 2: to keep kind of entertained because books were not allowed

906
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 2: on this trip, like basically you had to interact. They

907
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 2: also sing songs like they're just doing whatever they can

908
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 2: to kind of get through. Fae, the radio operator, will

909
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 2: later say, quote, we became a very tight tribe. That

910
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 2: doesn't happen in normal life, especially when you have so

911
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 2: many different cultures, so many different languages, and so many

912
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 2: different religious groups. But we became a group, almost like

913
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:42,800
Speaker 2: a pod of the same animal.

914
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 1: But when you can't speak the same language, it's more

915
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: difficult to get into arguments about nuanced stuff like politics

916
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 1: and religion, right, because there's no because.

917
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 2: I like, everything is like a smile and a hey, right,

918
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 2: are we doing this?

919
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: If you had to put people on this X raft,

920
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:02,839
Speaker 1: who would living or dead? Yeah?

921
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 2: I think mostly dead. So the synergy and lack of

922
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 2: drama on the sex boat, on the sex Raft is

923
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 2: clearly a problem for doctor Genevez. It's testing his ability

924
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,439
Speaker 2: to stay neutral. So now his questions are becoming increasingly

925
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,839
Speaker 2: more pointed. So he's asking people questions like, who would

926
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 2: you get rid of if you could get rap?

927
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:24,439
Speaker 1: Okay, now we're just throwing people off of the boat.

928
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, great, and also who's the most attractive? Like it's

929
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 2: turned into a seventh grade slam book very quickly, and

930
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 2: it still doesn't work. So even though people do answer

931
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 2: and the answers are given what he wants, Yeah, he's

932
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 2: being given the answers, but it's not drudging up the

933
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 2: bad feeling that he thinks are the tension or anything.

934
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 2: Things are just toumming along. Yeah, although there is a problem.

935
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 2: The captain Maria is becoming very frustrated by how slowly

936
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 2: they're moving and basically how shitty this raft is. And

937
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 2: she knows that if they can't speed up, they could

938
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 2: hit the Caribbean during hurricane season, which it could have

939
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 2: lethal consequences. So in one of Jenavez's questionnaires, Maria tells

940
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 2: him that she quote hates the acollae that she hates it.

941
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 2: And this is when things start to get tense because

942
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 2: that statement doctor Genevez finds very offensive and he gets

943
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 2: really pissed off at her. The captain, Yeah, Mary will

944
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 2: later say, quote Santiago did not want to accept that

945
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 2: answer from anybody. He said, our raft is beautiful. End quote.

946
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 2: So now Genevez is pissed at Maria and his bitterness

947
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 2: begins to simmer. Suddenly the rudder breaks, so they go

948
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,240
Speaker 2: from bad to worse. And this is clearly a job

949
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 2: for Servaan, who is the French female diver, who's just

950
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 2: going to go down and fix that rudder. But suddenly

951
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 2: Genevez declares himself the boss and demands to step in

952
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 2: and do it himself. Problem, Yeah, the whole thing was

953
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:03,320
Speaker 2: in scientiy.

954
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 1: Because you wanted to fuck everyone on the plane that

955
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: got hijacked doesn't mean it's just like, how.

956
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 2: Could I get a twenty three year old to fuck me?

957
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: How my goxplint that I really wanted to fuck my

958
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: seat mate on that Hidar plane, who was an eight

959
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:14,919
Speaker 1: year old woman?

960
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 2: How do I how would one justify that? Trying to

961
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,879
Speaker 2: get it more into the non judge, it's okay, if

962
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 2: you want that area.

963
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: I know science never believes in science. That's kind of

964
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 1: her thing.

965
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 2: So Maria the captain will later remember quote Santiago jumped in,

966
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 2: but as soon as he got into the water he

967
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 2: had problems. He had a big beard, so his water

968
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 2: started to leak into his mask and he almost drowned.

969
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 2: He couldn't do it. We had to drag him back up.

970
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:48,760
Speaker 2: End quote. So the women wait until Genevez has fallen

971
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 2: asleep and they go fix the rudder themselves. That's a

972
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,879
Speaker 2: great metaphor for being a woman in nineteen seventy three.

973
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: We had to make him think that it just got fixed, Yeah,

974
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: while he was sleeping, right exactly.

975
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,760
Speaker 2: The guy with the big beard is going to get upset,

976
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 2: right if you do it better than him. Servain says, quote,

977
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 2: it was a really small job. It was quickly done,

978
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 2: and we just didn't say anything. You had it word

979
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 2: for word. Yeah. But of course, when Genevez wakes up

980
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 2: and puts two and two together, he's furious that it

981
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 2: was repaired behind his back, and his attitude doesn't improve

982
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 2: much into July. He is still not getting the heated

983
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 2: social scenarios that he was planning on and on day

984
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 2: fifty one, when the Acolade is about halfway across the Atlantic,

985
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 2: he laments the lack of sex and violence taking place

986
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 2: on board. He writes in his notes quote, I can

987
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 2: feel that the group has lost interest in the experiment.

988
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 2: They clearly don't understand what I'm trying to do. Instead

989
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 2: of supporting me, they behave like a bunch of children,

990
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:48,240
Speaker 2: and they're getting lazy.

991
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 1: Oh my god, stop being lazy about casual sex and

992
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: anger and violence.

993
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:56,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, just try to hit somebody.

994
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 1: You're not doing what I'm trying to get you to

995
00:48:58,360 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 1: naturally do.

996
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 2: Yes, you don't have these instincts, And I'm furious.

997
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:03,720
Speaker 1: Okay.

998
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 2: So now we're in August, it's eighty four of this trip,

999
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 2: and the Accolie reaches the Caribbean. It's just a few

1000
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 2: weeks away from their expected kind of arrival date in Mexico,

1001
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 2: their Eta, and around this time, the crew learns that

1002
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 2: some newspaper reports on the experiment have been gaining traction

1003
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 2: since they first left the Canary Islands. They learned that

1004
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,280
Speaker 2: the majority of the coverage has gone with the nickname

1005
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 2: the Sex Raft or the Raft of Love, and this

1006
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 2: sends Jenevez into a spiral. He writes in his notes, quote,

1007
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 2: what if the experiment doesn't lead to anything, and I

1008
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 2: risked all of our lives for nothing. I can feel

1009
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 2: that the others are starting to sense my insecurity. I

1010
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,720
Speaker 2: am tired and sad, and I feel completely misunderstood.

1011
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: Wooh, crying to your beard, shave that beard, mabe, crying

1012
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: to your forty nine year old beard, start all.

1013
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 2: Over and just go completely clean shaven. Of course, he's

1014
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 2: not going to keep those feelings in his diary and say, hey,

1015
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 2: you know it's be a bigger person and then.

1016
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:01,320
Speaker 1: Keep zip it.

1017
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,399
Speaker 2: Instead, he decides to call an all hands meeting where

1018
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 2: he reads answers aloud from everyone's past questionnaire A.

1019
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:12,800
Speaker 1: Little bitch, what a fucking diva?

1020
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 2: And guess what, Georgia, who do you think that this

1021
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,439
Speaker 2: They wants you off this raft? And she said she's

1022
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 2: better looking than you. Like he's asking questions that he

1023
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 2: can only get fucked up answers from right.

1024
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:27,280
Speaker 1: So he's like, everybody, sit.

1025
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 2: Down, You're going to hear some bad news.

1026
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:30,240
Speaker 1: Get ready.

1027
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:34,760
Speaker 2: Who finds who attractive? Who finds who annoying? Who wants

1028
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 2: whom banished to the deepest depths of the ocean. Who's

1029
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 2: this lut et cetera. That's all me at the end.

1030
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 2: But here's the thing about this team. They don't care.

1031
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 1: He tells them, like, this is your experiment, Like you

1032
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 1: banded them together because they have one common enemy. Yes,

1033
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,319
Speaker 1: you you being a little bitch. And like also the

1034
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: time period of like this whole generation that's like summer

1035
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: of love and like except people, he's basically doing a

1036
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: generation all fucking experiment or his old ass.

1037
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 2: Yes, come on, where's that hate we used to love

1038
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 2: so much back in the thirties.

1039
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 1: Everyone can have.

1040
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 2: We're doing our best to get rid of that shit. Also,

1041
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 2: my thing is did he go through did he have

1042
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 2: like a translation book for every language on that was

1043
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 2: like and now the bad news in French and now

1044
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 2: I translate for you.

1045
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:24,280
Speaker 1: Okay.

1046
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 2: So it doesn't phaze this team. They truly are BFFs.

1047
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 2: So Jeneves won't quit surveying The French diver later says,

1048
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 2: quote he was provoking situations for something to happen. Santiago

1049
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 2: only had ulterior motives. He really wanted things to happen.

1050
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 2: End quote, which is like it is his experiment to

1051
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 2: me as the scientist. But he's not letting it go.

1052
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 2: Marry the American navigator remembers quote, one time Santiago threw

1053
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 2: a bucket of water at my face. It was like

1054
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:56,720
Speaker 2: shock treatment. End quote.

1055
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 1: Yes, bitch.

1056
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 2: And Faye, the other American, who is just one of

1057
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 2: two black people on board, adds quote, he called me

1058
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 2: a primitive, a thief, lazy, all the stereotypes he threw

1059
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 2: at me.

1060
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 1: Please, you're the problem.

1061
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 2: Well, he's trying to be the problem because no one

1062
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 2: else will be a problem, because no one else needs

1063
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:17,879
Speaker 2: to be the problem, because there isn't a fucking problem. Right,

1064
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 2: we know these people, but all of his insane behavior,

1065
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 2: of course, just bonds the group tighter and against him. Edna,

1066
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 2: the Israeli doctor, will say, quote, before a college, Santiago

1067
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 2: said that out at sea we would be freer than

1068
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 2: ever before. Then at sea he started behaving like a dictator.

1069
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 2: So this is when they get the news that there's

1070
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 2: a tropical storm a bruin in the Caribbean. They're rightfully terrified.

1071
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 2: Everybody except for Genvez, who writes, quote, I can't help

1072
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 2: but feel excited. A dangerous hurricane might be exactly what

1073
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 2: we need for the experiment to evolve and quo it's

1074
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 2: his last chance. Then it's all justified y his weird

1075
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 2: outdoor toilet. As Captain Maria understands that everyone's lives are

1076
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 2: in her hands, so she announces that she will steer

1077
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 2: the Acolliu to the nearest Caribbean island to write out

1078
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 2: the storm, but Genevez intervenes, insisting that they stay on course.

1079
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 2: He argues going into port would contaminate the experiment, and

1080
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:25,879
Speaker 2: he tells everyone, quote for the sake of science, we

1081
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 2: must continue no matter what end quote nothing. What happens

1082
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 2: next goes very fast. Maria refuses to comply with that,

1083
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 2: saying that the safety of the crew must take priority

1084
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:41,280
Speaker 2: over this experiment, and Genevez then fires her and says,

1085
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 2: quote from now on, I am the captain.

1086
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 1: Tie him up and put him on like a dinghy,

1087
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: like traveling alone.

1088
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 2: Yes, this is the classic Southwestern Airlines electricians tape around

1089
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:56,359
Speaker 2: the mouth and then around the seat. So as he's

1090
00:53:56,440 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 2: making this announcement, basically, storm clouds are gathering in the

1091
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 2: sky's above the ship. The sky has now gone dark,

1092
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:07,800
Speaker 2: rain drops begin to fall, and the waves start getting

1093
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 2: bigger and higher. So it truly is like when they

1094
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 2: make the movie of this, this whole thing, where he's like, no,

1095
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 2: I am the captain and his eyes go all crazy.

1096
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:20,879
Speaker 2: A storm is a bruin. They now realize it's too

1097
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 2: late to argue about this. The team braces for the worst,

1098
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 2: but somehow the storm makes a miraculous change of course,

1099
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 2: and the ecolie is spared, so everything kind of settles

1100
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 2: back down, but of course the emotional and psychological damage

1101
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 2: has already been done. Maria is so furious that she

1102
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,760
Speaker 2: cannot even look at Genevez, and she later says, quote,

1103
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 2: I was angry and sad and depressed. I mean, there

1104
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 2: is a really special law at sea, and this what

1105
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 2: Santiago did to me was mutiny. A mutiny the penalty

1106
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:58,359
Speaker 2: is death. End quote. Okay, so we're getting We're getting somewhere. Now.

1107
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 2: They're in the last stretch of the journey, and Geneves

1108
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 2: has ironically become not a dispassionate observer of the group's tension,

1109
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 2: but the absolute center of it Isuke. One of the

1110
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 2: men will say, quote his psychological violence was difficult to bear.

1111
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 2: It was very hard on me. End quote. So it

1112
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 2: goes from bad to worse, and it gets so intense.

1113
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 2: The group actually has a meeting one night while Genevez

1114
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 2: is sleeping, and they discuss killing.

1115
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,399
Speaker 1: Him whoa, because he's so bad.

1116
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 2: They entertained throwing him overboard, maybe giving him an overdose

1117
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 2: of medicine that's on board. Fay will later remember quote,

1118
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 2: you could feel the electricity start. We were thinking it

1119
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 2: all together at the same time and having the same

1120
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 2: thought should we do it? Should we do it? Should

1121
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 2: we do it?

1122
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: Murder like.

1123
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 2: Wow, he's pushing them to this meeting.

1124
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 1: Basically this figured something out with his science experiment, but

1125
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:56,959
Speaker 1: not what he fucking wanted to do.

1126
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 2: Well, right, because he wanted them to murder each other.

1127
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 2: Yeah him, It's so crazy. So before any of that

1128
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 2: can even be entertained in a real way, another bigger

1129
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 2: emergency arrives. Volunteers working the overnight steering shift one night

1130
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 2: realize the raft is in the direct path of a

1131
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 2: massive freighter and the freighter can't see them, and it

1132
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:23,359
Speaker 2: is not responding on the radio, and if they can't

1133
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 2: change course in the Acollie, they will almost certainly be

1134
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 2: sucked underwater and crushed by this massive sh sh Which

1135
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 2: is my fear and why I've never seen Titanic. That

1136
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:38,720
Speaker 2: doesn't happen those But at the end, when it's going

1137
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 2: down and there's it's so big, those volunteers wake everyone up.

1138
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 2: Panic consumes the group, especially Genevez, who Isuke describes as

1139
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:54,560
Speaker 2: quote just running around on the raft shouting Oi oi loudly.

1140
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,920
Speaker 2: So he's the captain, right. Maria takes over and she

1141
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 2: does what any captain will. She restores a sense of calm,

1142
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 2: and then she orders everyone to light and wave flares

1143
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:08,800
Speaker 2: on the deck. At the very last minute, the freighter

1144
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 2: spots the acale and is able to change course and

1145
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 2: misses them just barely.

1146
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:14,240
Speaker 1: Wow.

1147
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 2: After this very embarrassing public failing during a near disaster,

1148
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 2: Genevez becomes a different person. He's deflated, lethargic. He holds

1149
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 2: up in his cabin for the remaining days of the trip,

1150
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 2: claiming he's sick, but no one buys it, and they're

1151
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 2: happy that something has finally shut him up. But from

1152
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 2: Genevez's notes, it's clear he's developed some self awareness, writing quote,

1153
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 2: I realize that the only one who has actually shown

1154
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 2: any kind of aggression or violence on the raft is me.

1155
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 1: Okay, that's more of this, right, please, it's not that hard.

1156
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:47,479
Speaker 2: No, it's not that bad.

1157
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 1: No, you can do it.

1158
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:52,640
Speaker 2: In the end, the group's anger towards Genevez never once

1159
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 2: manifests into physical violence.

1160
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 1: Not once.

1161
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 2: Isuke will later say, quote, what was so great about

1162
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 2: our grips is that we didn't do that. We all

1163
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:05,919
Speaker 2: held back and kept the peace because the group communicated. Well,

1164
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:10,240
Speaker 2: I'm happy that no blood was spilled. And quote me too.

1165
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 2: On August twenty first, nineteen seventy three, after spending one

1166
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 2: hundred and one days at sea, one hundred and one

1167
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:20,960
Speaker 2: days on one side of a tennis court with waves.

1168
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, no sun block, by the way, there's no way.

1169
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 2: And no bathroom stalls. Oh, no sunblock. No, the only

1170
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 2: one my dad had c and ski back in nineteen

1171
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 2: seventy three. But that was it. The Accolae, after all

1172
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:35,920
Speaker 2: this time and all those days, safely arrives in Mexico,

1173
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 2: and despite everything that's happened. It's actually a bittersweet ending

1174
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 2: with Servan saying quote, I could have stayed another three

1175
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 2: months at sea if it hadn't been for my children

1176
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 2: and other obligations.

1177
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 1: Remember that, remember them, they must be so loud.

1178
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:56,480
Speaker 2: I could have carried on living under these conditions for sure.

1179
00:58:57,560 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 2: For some it's back to the same house, the same family,

1180
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 2: the same job when it's all over. But others reroute

1181
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 2: themselves entirely, leaving their old routines and setting out on

1182
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 2: a new path. And for his part, Genevez publishes his

1183
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 2: findings on the Acoli experiment, concluding that humans don't inherently

1184
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 2: turn to violence in intense, claustrophobic, and dangerous situations. Though

1185
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 2: these findings mostly land with a whimper and won't become

1186
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 2: foundational scientific texts by any stretch of the imagination, but

1187
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 2: doctor Genevez continues to study peace and aggression for the

1188
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 2: rest of his long career. For what it's worth, Maren

1189
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 2: notes here, modern observers have criticized Genovez's methods on the

1190
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 2: raft as heavy handed on scientific and psychologically harmful. But

1191
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like any of that got much attention

1192
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 2: at the time because the study itself had been reduced

1193
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 2: down to the sex raft. So that's all anybody kind

1194
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 2: of wanted to know about it. It could have actually

1195
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 2: been something taken from it, right, Yeah, So in twenty eighteen,

1196
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 2: when the Acolague group is brought back together for the

1197
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 2: production of the documentary, the wrath the fondness that they

1198
01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 2: had felt for each other during the experiment is palpable.

1199
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 2: Some of them, of course, unfortunately, had passed away by

1200
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 2: the time the filming started, including doctor Genevez himself, who

1201
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 2: died in twenty thirteen when he was in his late eighties.

1202
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 2: But volunteer Fae encapsulates the entire experience best when she

1203
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 2: suggests that Genovese's obsession with creating friction almost caused him

1204
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 2: to miss the whole point of his own experiment, which

1205
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 2: again had the lofty goal of studying how world peace

1206
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:35,800
Speaker 2: might be achieved. Fay says, quote, we could talk to

1207
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 2: each other with sophistication and depth and understanding and love.

1208
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 2: And isn't that the answer to violence? It was the

1209
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:45,920
Speaker 2: opposite of violence. It was true peace. He was so

1210
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 2: focused on the violence and the conflict, but he had

1211
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 2: it right in his hands, because all over the world

1212
01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 2: and all the conflicts, it's always them and us. And

1213
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:59,440
Speaker 2: we started out them and us and we became us

1214
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:04,320
Speaker 2: end quote. And that's the story of the Sex Raft

1215
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 2: aka the A Collie Expedition. Wow, it's a very timely

1216
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 2: lesson about I will just make the metaphor, the raft

1217
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 2: is the Internet, and the hatred that that guy's trying

1218
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 2: to churn up is all those fake bots and all

1219
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 2: the bullshit and the trolls.

1220
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 1: People love to fall for the trolls, and then the

1221
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 1: rage baiting.

1222
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the dead Internet theory, which is that it's

1223
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 2: a lot of it's fake totally. It's just a bunch

1224
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 2: of fake shit totally.

1225
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 1: So you're gonna do that next time. I'm gonna do

1226
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:35,640
Speaker 1: Murder Kroger next time. We're gonna that can be so

1227
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 1: of the time.

1228
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 2: We're gonna be so good at podcasting pretty soon soon.

1229
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 1: But until then, thank you guys for listening. Say sexy

1230
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 1: and don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

1231
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 2: This has been an exactly right production.

1232
01:01:57,880 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 1: Our managing producer is Molly Smith.

1233
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:01,920
Speaker 2: Our consulting producers Kate Shellenbach.

1234
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:04,120
Speaker 1: Our creative lead is Alison Acgousti.

1235
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 2: Our associate producer is Tessa Hughes, and our editor is

1236
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:08,040
Speaker 2: Aristotle Acevedo.

1237
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: This episode was mixed by Leona Squillacci.

1238
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 2: Our researchers are Maaron McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

1239
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 1: Email your hometowns to my favorite murder at gmail dot

1240
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 1: com and follow the show on Instagram at my Favorite Murder.

1241
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 2: Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

1242
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:24,520
Speaker 2: Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

1243
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 1: Or watch new episodes every week on Netflix. Search for

1244
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 1: My Favorite Murder, add us to your list, and hit

1245
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 1: the double thumbs up button. Goodbye.