WEBVTT - The Murder of John Lennon

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<v Speaker 1>Why media productions. Remember this is just a football game.

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<v Speaker 1>Come out of who wins, aw loses? An unspeakable tragedy.

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<v Speaker 1>John Lennon, shot twice in the back, rushed the Roseveld hospital,

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<v Speaker 1>dead on arrival. The death of a man who sang

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<v Speaker 1>and played the guitar overshadows the news from Poland around

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<v Speaker 1>in Washington tonight. John Lennon is dead. Don't let it

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<v Speaker 1>kept mark. David Chapman was a nobody until he was

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<v Speaker 1>on every channel. It was December eight, a chilly winter

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<v Speaker 1>evening on Manhattan's Upper west Side. Chapman wore a fur hat,

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<v Speaker 1>a silk scarf, and a black three quarter lights coat.

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<v Speaker 1>He stood on the sidewalk, arms extended holding a Charter

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<v Speaker 1>Arms thirty eight caliber handgun. He squeezed the trigger again

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<v Speaker 1>and again. He fired five hollow point bullets, and his

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<v Speaker 1>childhood hero, John Lennon. The Assistant District Attorney said, Chapman

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<v Speaker 1>committed a deliberate, premeditated execution of John Lennon in a cool, calm,

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<v Speaker 1>calculated manner. His attacker made no attempt to flee. He

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<v Speaker 1>was arrested at the Dakota Police say he is marked.

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<v Speaker 1>David Chapman The reports are that he starts reading this

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<v Speaker 1>novel as the chaos erupts around him. So the police

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<v Speaker 1>cars arrived, people point out, this is the gunman right here.

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<v Speaker 1>He's standing there reading this novel. It's bizarre. The strangeness

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<v Speaker 1>of the acts stood out to everyone at the time,

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<v Speaker 1>from the police, to the media, to even Chapman himself.

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<v Speaker 1>Years later, he described the scene in an interview with

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<v Speaker 1>Larry King and then afterwards, it was like the film

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<v Speaker 1>strip broke. Took the Catch in the Ryo out of

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<v Speaker 1>my pocket. I paced, I tried to read it. I

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<v Speaker 1>I just couldn't wait, Larry, until those police got there.

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<v Speaker 1>I was just devastated. The police put Chapman in the

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<v Speaker 1>backseat of a patrol car. He gazed out the window

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<v Speaker 1>and saw officers place a blood soaked body into another car.

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<v Speaker 1>There wasn't time to call an ambulance. John Lennon was

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<v Speaker 1>pronounced dead on arrival at the hospital. The two police

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<v Speaker 1>officers who drove Chapman from the scene turned to look

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<v Speaker 1>back at the killer. Chapman smiled and said, I am

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<v Speaker 1>the catcher and the rye. I'm Sean Braswell, and this

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<v Speaker 1>is the thread. A podcast from AZSI media where we

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<v Speaker 1>examine the interlocking lives and events of history. We turned

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<v Speaker 1>back the clock, one story at a time to reveal

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<v Speaker 1>how various strands are woven together to create a historic figure,

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<v Speaker 1>big idea, or an unthinkable tread j D. This season,

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<v Speaker 1>we start with the death of rock star John Lennon

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<v Speaker 1>and over the course of five episodes, actually connected back

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<v Speaker 1>to communist leader Vladimir Lenin. Along the way, we meet

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<v Speaker 1>some of the twentieth centuries greatest artists and writers. We

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<v Speaker 1>explore how each of their stories hinge on the past

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<v Speaker 1>and influence the future. People are trapped in history, and

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<v Speaker 1>history is trapped in them. That's what the writer James

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<v Speaker 1>Baldwin once said. Mark David Chapman may have pulled the trigger,

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<v Speaker 1>but trapped in history. Lenin and his death are forever

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<v Speaker 1>linked with the classic American novel and Chapman's possession that

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<v Speaker 1>December Day, The Catcher and the Rye. What on earth

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<v Speaker 1>would make someone kill their own hero in cold blood?

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<v Speaker 1>Why did Chapman pull the trigger? Trying to understand what

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<v Speaker 1>motivated the guy, what took him there? Why he spent

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<v Speaker 1>three days in New York. Tim Riley is a professor

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<v Speaker 1>of journalism at Emerson College, a music historian and the

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<v Speaker 1>author or of Lenin The Man, The Myth, the Music.

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<v Speaker 1>And I've meditated on this for years. I don't feel

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<v Speaker 1>like I've ever gotten a good understanding of what's going

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<v Speaker 1>on there. Let's pick up the thread at the beginning.

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<v Speaker 1>Is a turbulent year for the United States. Fifty two

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<v Speaker 1>American citizens are held hostage in Iran for over a year.

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<v Speaker 1>The US boycott's the Summer Olympic Games in Moscow. Back home,

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<v Speaker 1>Ronald Reagan, a former actor and California governor, is elected

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<v Speaker 1>President of the United States. The year's top film is

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<v Speaker 1>The Empire Strikes Back, and a former Beatle living in

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<v Speaker 1>New York records his first album in five years. Saturday,

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<v Speaker 1>December six, two days before the death of John Lennon,

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<v Speaker 1>a heavy set man from Honolulu named Mark David Chapman

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<v Speaker 1>arrives at LaGuardia Airport in New York. Chapman brings with

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<v Speaker 1>him over two thousand dollars in cash, a handgun, and

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<v Speaker 1>five hollow point bullets. He takes a cab to the Dakota,

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<v Speaker 1>a famous Gothic style apartment building overlooking Central Park. Some

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<v Speaker 1>of the world's most famous people called this home, including

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<v Speaker 1>Gilda Radner, Leonard Bernstein, Lauren Bacall, and of course John Lennon. Sunday,

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<v Speaker 1>December seven, Mark David Chapman spends all day outside the Dakota.

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<v Speaker 1>Wasn't uncommon for people to wait at the entrance to

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<v Speaker 1>the Dakota because many of celebrities lived there. Lennon typically

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<v Speaker 1>would sign a few autographs friends knew where he lived.

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<v Speaker 1>The Chapman sees no sign of the rock star that day.

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<v Speaker 1>In the evening, Chapman treats himself to an expensive dinner

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<v Speaker 1>and an escort at his hotel. The escort happens to

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<v Speaker 1>wear a green dress, just like the prostitute who visits

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<v Speaker 1>Holden Caulfield, the main character in The Catcher in the

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<v Speaker 1>Rye synchronicity, Chapman observes to himself. Monday December eight, Mark

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<v Speaker 1>David Chapman wakes up at nine a m. Before leaving

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<v Speaker 1>his hotel room, he sets out a strange assortment of

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<v Speaker 1>personal items, a bible, his passport, phoe does of himself,

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<v Speaker 1>and a small Wizard of Oz poster. Chapman then turns

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<v Speaker 1>to look into the mirror, brandishes his firearm and proclaims,

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<v Speaker 1>the Catcher in the Rye of my generation. I left

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<v Speaker 1>the hotel room, bought a copy of The Catcher in

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<v Speaker 1>the Rye, signed it to Holding Caufield from Holding Caufield,

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<v Speaker 1>and wrote underneath that this is my statement. Chapman stands

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<v Speaker 1>once more by the door of the Dakota with the

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<v Speaker 1>other regulars, hoping to catch a glimpse of celebrity. He

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<v Speaker 1>peruses his copy of Catcher as he waits. On page

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<v Speaker 1>he finds the line it was a Monday in all

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<v Speaker 1>and pretty near Christmas, and all the stores were open

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<v Speaker 1>a Monday near Christmas. Synchronicity again. Today is the day.

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<v Speaker 1>Chapman gets so engrossed in his book that he fails

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<v Speaker 1>to notice a taxi pull up. A thin man in

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<v Speaker 1>a tan jacket gets out and bounds through the Dakota gate.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Lenin. Did you see him, the dorman says to Chapman,

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<v Speaker 1>stun Chapman responds, guess I missed my chance. He checks

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<v Speaker 1>out Lennon's daily habits. It's clear by now, because he's

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<v Speaker 1>there when Lennon leaves in the morning of December eighth,

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<v Speaker 1>and he's there when Lennon returns. Chapman sees John Lennon

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<v Speaker 1>and Yoko Ono emerged from the Dakota en route to

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<v Speaker 1>the recording studio. Chapman walks up to Lennon, his gun

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<v Speaker 1>in his coat pocket, and he asked Lenon for his autograph.

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<v Speaker 1>A nearby photographer snaps a photo of the moment. Then

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<v Speaker 1>Lennon gets into his limo and leaves, and we have

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<v Speaker 1>a picture of him signing this kid's album cover of

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<v Speaker 1>Double Fantasy. And he signs this album cover, and when

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<v Speaker 1>he gets home that night, that same kid is waiting

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<v Speaker 1>for him. Around PM, Lennon returns to the Dakota, and

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<v Speaker 1>this time Chapman does what he came to do. Chapman

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<v Speaker 1>shoots Lennon from behind, and the bullets explode in his chest.

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<v Speaker 1>The voice that touched millions is silenced in an instant.

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<v Speaker 1>Chapman and Lennon are taken from the Dakota in their

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<v Speaker 1>separate patrol cars. Can you imagine how Lennon feels dying

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<v Speaker 1>in the back of his cop car. I just I

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<v Speaker 1>have a hit album, I've just figured out how to

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<v Speaker 1>do this life. I'm finally doing it on my own terms,

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<v Speaker 1>and somebody guns me down. So what brought Lennon to

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<v Speaker 1>his death the doorstep of the Dakota that night. Let's

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<v Speaker 1>rewind Lennon was one of the most famous people on

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<v Speaker 1>the planet back in that fame was taking a hard toll,

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<v Speaker 1>especially on his first marriage to Cynthia and their young

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<v Speaker 1>son Julian. There are periods where the only thing that

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<v Speaker 1>is going well in Lennon's life are the the kinds

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<v Speaker 1>of songs that are tumbling out of him. It's kind

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<v Speaker 1>of unbelievable to see what's going on in his life,

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<v Speaker 1>failing marriage, failing as a father, feeling guilty, having lots

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<v Speaker 1>of affairs, taking lots of drugs, really not a happy person.

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<v Speaker 1>Then yet turning out some incredible songs. But then it

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<v Speaker 1>got to be format. This is Lennon reflecting on this

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<v Speaker 1>period in his life in an interview with Archao Radio

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<v Speaker 1>only hours before his death. It would be his last

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<v Speaker 1>and sort of not the pleasure that it was. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's when I felt that I had lost myself, not

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<v Speaker 1>that I was on purpose purposely being a hypocrite or

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<v Speaker 1>phony phony. It's a word strewn throughout The Catcher in

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<v Speaker 1>the Rye. The main character hates phonies, the hypocrites and fakes.

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<v Speaker 1>That he sees everywhere. Little did Lennon know that being

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<v Speaker 1>labeled a phony would get him killed. But more on

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<v Speaker 1>that later. John and Yoko get married and moved to

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<v Speaker 1>New York. In the first few years of their marriage

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<v Speaker 1>were rough. Lennon battled depression, drug addiction, and other demons.

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<v Speaker 1>In Lennon decided to take a break from music to

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<v Speaker 1>focus on raising his new son, Sean. Lennon forged a

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<v Speaker 1>life for himself outside of celebrity, and he felt free

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<v Speaker 1>in the streets of New York. He feels like New

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<v Speaker 1>York has a different attitude towards celebrities. He feels as

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<v Speaker 1>though he's able to walk the streets without being accosted

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<v Speaker 1>and without drawing a crowd. New Yorkers always considered themselves

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<v Speaker 1>way too cool to be star struck. You don't want

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<v Speaker 1>to know how great that is. I mean, people come

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<v Speaker 1>up to the aft board to grab or say hi,

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<v Speaker 1>but they won't bug you. By nineteen eighty, after five

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<v Speaker 1>years as a stay at home dad, Lennon was ready

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<v Speaker 1>for his comeback. The world closely followed his return to

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<v Speaker 1>the recording studio. It was a very fruitful period. Songs

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<v Speaker 1>poured out of lenin about fatherhood, redemption, and his new

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<v Speaker 1>stage of life. He released the album Double Fantasy with

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<v Speaker 1>Yoko in November. The album had just reached number one

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<v Speaker 1>in the UK the week he died up next Why Catcher?

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<v Speaker 1>Why did a book like that speaks so much to

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<v Speaker 1>someone like Chapman. We'll be back in a moment. While

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<v Speaker 1>Lennon's life was coming together, Mark David Chapman's life was

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<v Speaker 1>falling apart. As a teenager in Georgia, he went from

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<v Speaker 1>being a burned out druggie to an obsessively devout Christian.

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<v Speaker 1>He often heard voices, and he was a loan or

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<v Speaker 1>a quiet type person. Maybe a little bit of instability there,

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<v Speaker 1>so I could I could deceive how it could happen,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. Chapman moved to Hawaii in nineteen seventy six,

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<v Speaker 1>where he planned to end his life with what he

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<v Speaker 1>called a last fling in Paradise. He attempted suicide and failed.

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<v Speaker 1>Chapman was later diagnosed with a variety of psychological disorders,

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<v Speaker 1>from schizophrenia to narcissistic personality disorder. There was never any consensus.

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<v Speaker 1>Chapman rediscovered a book from his childhood, The Catcher in

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<v Speaker 1>the Rye at a local library in Hawaii. Month after

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<v Speaker 1>month he poured through its pages. Chapman would explain later,

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<v Speaker 1>I actually became holding Caulfield in my own mind as

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<v Speaker 1>a way of coping. By the way, case you haven't

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<v Speaker 1>read it, The Catcher in the Rye is about a

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<v Speaker 1>teenager Holden Caulfield, coping with the death of his brother

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<v Speaker 1>and the few days he spends in New York before

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<v Speaker 1>checking himself into a sanitarium. Holden fantasizes about catching children

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<v Speaker 1>who are running through a field of rye before they

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<v Speaker 1>fall off a cliff, saving their lives. Mark David Chapman's

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<v Speaker 1>fantasy was much different. On one fateful day in early nine,

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<v Speaker 1>Chapman picked up another book at the library, a recent

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<v Speaker 1>Linen biography called One Day at a Time by Andrew Fawcett.

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<v Speaker 1>Inside there was a photo of the rock star on

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<v Speaker 1>the roof of the Dakota. Chapman, again, in his interview

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<v Speaker 1>with Larry King, remember, I'm in a different state of mind,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm and I'm falling in on myself. I'm angry

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<v Speaker 1>at seeing him on the Dakota, and I say to myself,

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<v Speaker 1>that phony that bastard Chapman heard the hypocrisy and his

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<v Speaker 1>heroes singing Imagine No Possessions. While he lived a charmed

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<v Speaker 1>life on New York's Upper West Side, he got angrier

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<v Speaker 1>and even more delusional. One day, as he was sitting

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<v Speaker 1>cross legged on the carpet of his Honolulu apartment listening

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<v Speaker 1>to the Beatles, he had a disturbing epiphany. Holden Caulfield

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<v Speaker 1>fantasized about killing a phony and The Catcher in the Rye,

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<v Speaker 1>but Chapman was determined to do better. He bought a

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<v Speaker 1>gun and after that. Chapman later explained there was no

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<v Speaker 1>power on earth that would have saved John Lennon's life.

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<v Speaker 1>Holding Caulfield, the main character in The Catcher in the Rye,

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<v Speaker 1>has violent fantasies of killing phonies, like this one passage

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<v Speaker 1>where Holding wanders through the halls of his Little Sisters

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<v Speaker 1>Elementary school and he sees a graffiti view scrolled across

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<v Speaker 1>the wall. I kept wanting to kill whoever written it.

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<v Speaker 1>I figured it was some perverty bum that sneaked into

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<v Speaker 1>the school late at night to take a leak or

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<v Speaker 1>something and then wrote it on the all. I kept

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<v Speaker 1>picturing myself catching him at it, and how I'd smashed

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<v Speaker 1>his head on the stone steps till he was good

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<v Speaker 1>and goddamn dead and bloody. After Lennon's murder, Catcher in

0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:12.160
<v Speaker 1>the Rye kept turning up at crime scenes. A copy

0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:14.680
<v Speaker 1>was found in John Hinckley Jr. Hotel room after he

0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:19.400
<v Speaker 1>attempted to assassinate Ronald Reagan, and in nine Robert John

0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:21.280
<v Speaker 1>Bardo had a copy of it on him when he

0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:25.720
<v Speaker 1>murdered the actress Rebecca Schaefer. This is Ken Slowinski, author

0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.960
<v Speaker 1>of J. D. Salinger Alife. So the country I did

0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.560
<v Speaker 1>throughout the eighties become the symbol of not just only

0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.840
<v Speaker 1>disuspected youth, which is what it had been for years

0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:41.640
<v Speaker 1>before that, but it's crazy disuffected youth. Lennon himself would

0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.440
<v Speaker 1>have been perplexed by the connection between his death and

0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:47.320
<v Speaker 1>The Catcher and the Rye, says Tim Riley. He was

0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:49.840
<v Speaker 1>a big reader of Sallenger Catching the Rye. He loved

0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.040
<v Speaker 1>that book. We have it on record that he gobbled

0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:54.760
<v Speaker 1>it down and that he really loved it. And Riley

0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:58.280
<v Speaker 1>claims it helped ignite the era of Beatlemania. John Lennon

0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.280
<v Speaker 1>and his crowd they were avid rock and roll fans,

0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:04.400
<v Speaker 1>but they also saw these other sparks of subversive energy

0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:07.880
<v Speaker 1>and other areas of pop culture. And you know it

0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:11.440
<v Speaker 1>can't be any accident that Salinger is writing that in

0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:15.640
<v Speaker 1>his character for Capturing the Rye at the same time

0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:18.280
<v Speaker 1>that rock and roll begins to explode, and you can

0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:21.040
<v Speaker 1>see why, Oh yeah, Lennon would definitely respond to that

0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:25.160
<v Speaker 1>book in that character holding Caufield is in a lot

0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:32.560
<v Speaker 1>of ways, he's like a mentor to John Lennon. Our

0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:35.720
<v Speaker 1>series begins at the end of a long timeline at

0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:38.960
<v Speaker 1>the gates of the Dakota for death because I don't

0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:41.440
<v Speaker 1>believe in it. I think it's just getting out of

0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:45.480
<v Speaker 1>wrong call and get into another. Lennon famously said this

0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:49.120
<v Speaker 1>in a nineteen interview, And in a way, this is

0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.040
<v Speaker 1>how our thread works. People get in and out of cars,

0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:56.000
<v Speaker 1>travel briefly in each other's lives, and the consequences echo

0:15:56.080 --> 0:16:02.120
<v Speaker 1>throughout history. We trace our thread backwards through the blood

0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:05.880
<v Speaker 1>soaked beaches in Normandy and the streets of revolution in Russia,

0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:10.840
<v Speaker 1>through grimy back room bars and glamorous nightclubs. Join us

0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.400
<v Speaker 1>as we traveled through nearly a century of history and

0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:19.400
<v Speaker 1>find out how it all connects. Next episode, we pick

0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:22.280
<v Speaker 1>up the thread with J. D. Salinger. If The Catcher

0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:25.480
<v Speaker 1>in the Rye resonates with people in dark psychological places,

0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:29.200
<v Speaker 1>it's probably because the novel and its author passed through

0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:37.640
<v Speaker 1>Hell itself on the way to publication. The Threat is

0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:41.359
<v Speaker 1>produced by Meredith hot Nutt, Libby Coleman, and me Sean braswell.

0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:45.040
<v Speaker 1>Our editors are Carlos Watson and Samir Rao. Meredith hot

0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:48.000
<v Speaker 1>Knot engineered our show with mixing and sound design from

0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:52.160
<v Speaker 1>James Rowland's and Chris Hoff Special thanks to Cindy carpi In,

0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:57.080
<v Speaker 1>David Boyer, Tracy Moran, Seawan Culligan, Daisy Carrington, Sun, Jeeve Tandon,

0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:02.280
<v Speaker 1>Jeremy Williams, Cameo, George tim Olsa, Ethan Lindsay and k A. L. W.

0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.000
<v Speaker 1>Check us out at AUSI dot com, That's o z

0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:09.680
<v Speaker 1>y dot com or on Twitter and Facebook. To learn

0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.359
<v Speaker 1>more about the thread, visit ausy dot com, slash the

0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:15.760
<v Speaker 1>thread all one word, and make sure to subscribe to

0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:19.600
<v Speaker 1>the thread on Apple Podcasts. If you love surprising, engaging

0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:22.919
<v Speaker 1>stories from history like this one, look no further than

0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:26.120
<v Speaker 1>the flashback section of AZZI. Thanks for listening,