1 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,639 Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature Future production of iHeartRadio. I'm your hosts 2 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, 3 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: and today on the show, it's a listener questions episode. 4 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,240 Speaker 1: You write to me and I read what you write 5 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:24,799 Speaker 1: to me, and then I do my best to answer 6 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: the questions that you write to me. If you're listening 7 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: to this and you're like, hey, wait a minute, I 8 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: have a question that relates to animal biology, maybe even 9 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: animal psychology or human psychology and how that relates to animals, 10 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: you can write to me at Creature Featurepod at gmail 11 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: dot com and I will do my best to answer you. 12 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 1: If not on the show, I'll send you a response 13 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: via email, the electronic mailing system. But I try my 14 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: best to answer everyone's questions. And here are some questions 15 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:04,119 Speaker 1: that I received that I am now about to answer. Hey, Katie, 16 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:06,839 Speaker 1: love the show, and since you answered a question about 17 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: monsters ink characters, I thought I would ask about a 18 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: fictional character as well. A friend of mine is really 19 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: into cryptids, and he and I usually get into disagreements 20 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 1: when he brings up Bigfoot. He likes to say that 21 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: Bigfoot is the most plausible of all cryptids, and that 22 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: it's more likely that a large primate lived in the 23 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: Americas at one time than not, and that maybe they're 24 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 1: still around in small numbers like the Tasmanian tiger. I'm 25 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: not very well educated in science, but this seems wrong. 26 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: Can you help me explain to him why this isn't 27 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: a thing? Were there ever large primates in the Americas? 28 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: Why are all the monkeys in South America small? And 29 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: could they have a large cousin? Why are they only 30 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: in South America? Was there ever non human primates in 31 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: North America? Are there even any guerrilla sized primates anywhere 32 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: but Africa and Asia? Sorry if these are very obvious questions, 33 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: they're not. Thank you for your question, But my friend 34 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: believes things that just seem so fundamentally wrong. He also 35 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: likes to say that girlas we're cryptids once, and we're 36 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: only recently verified to exist. Do you happen to know 37 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: what the difference between an animal existing but not being 38 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: really known and a cryptid? I know cryptids aren't your 39 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: area of expertise, but you know so much about biology 40 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:24,799 Speaker 1: and evolution that I'm hoping you can help me get 41 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: him to stop trying to convince me that bigfoot is 42 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: a real thing. For what it's worth, I don't care 43 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: that he likes to imagine a bigfoot wandering the forest, 44 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: but when he tries to convince me of it and 45 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: I get annoyed. So at info you can share with 46 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: me will help me. Thank you. The struggle is real. 47 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: I understand this. I have had some people try to 48 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: convince me that Bigfoot is real. I love the concept 49 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: of Bigfoot, YETI sasquatch. That's fun. I really love it 50 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: as a mythos and folklore. But no, I am not. 51 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: I am not big foot pilled. I do not believe 52 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: that Bigfoot exists and is real. But yeah, thank you 53 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: so much for this question. Let's talk about it. Let's 54 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: talk bigfoot. So the problem with most cryptid accounts is 55 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: that they tend to be a large megafauna that would 56 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: be unlikely to be missed by human observation, like the 57 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: Lockness monster or big mant or big man, Bigfoot or 58 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: moth man are harder for me to believe in than say, 59 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: like an undiscovered frog side species of which there could 60 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: be plenty we are constantly finding, like micro hyghlid frogs, 61 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: tiny tiny frogs that can fit on like your pinky, 62 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: and other tiny animals that are new species that we 63 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: have not yet discovered, So little things existing in forest 64 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: somewhere that we have not yet discovered, totally totally real. 65 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: But something as big as a bigfoot, right, because when 66 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: you think of bigfoot, I'm thinking man's eyes probably larger 67 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: than manned because you know the name bigfoot. He's got 68 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: big feet. So it's like this large ape creature. And 69 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: so the idea is that somehow this really large megafauna, 70 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: this large animal evades our detection and we have no 71 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: actual tangible evidence of it. So it is true like 72 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: that large animals can be elusive, such as the giant squid, 73 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: but we can still find tangible evidence bodies that wash 74 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: up on the shore. With modern technology, we can even 75 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: get video of them. And this is in the ocean, 76 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: which is massive. It is an enormous area that is 77 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: very difficult to entirely explore. There's a lot about the 78 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 1: ocean we simply don't know, and things like even the 79 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: largest animals like whales, there's a lot of behavior that 80 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: we have not been able to completely document because it's 81 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: so hard to have a presence there where we're able 82 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: to constantly have observational data, but we still have some 83 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 1: tangible evidence for the large animals that exist in the ocean. 84 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: So this makes it pretty unlikely that a large Bigfoot 85 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: like species could hang out in the forests of North 86 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: America or Canada without ever leaving tangible evidence behind. So 87 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,359 Speaker 1: some people have submitted things like fur, but all the 88 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: fur that's ever been submitted that has been attributed to 89 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: Bigfoot turns out to be deer or some other animal. 90 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: Of course, there's the famous footage. I'm not going to 91 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 1: get into that because you know there's you can I'm 92 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: sure there's tons of documentaries on picking that apart. I 93 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 1: don't think that footage is a Bigfoot. I think it's 94 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: a guy in a costume on sort of grainy, low 95 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: quality footage. So first thing though, in terms of debunking Bigfoot, 96 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: is there can't just be one immortal Bigfoot. Let's just no, uh, 97 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:13,359 Speaker 1: there is no primate that lives like hundreds and hundreds 98 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: of years that could sustain itself and just be the 99 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 1: last one, the one guy who's just there for hundreds 100 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: of years. I would say no, if there could be 101 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: a Bigfoot, there would have to be like a species 102 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: of bigfoots reproducing and living in these forests. They would 103 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: need to consume enough to maintain their large size, and 104 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: there would be notable activities. So if we had like 105 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 1: essentially like North American gorillas, we would find evidence of 106 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: them because they make their presence known even if they're elusive, 107 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 1: even if they're trying to evade detection. Because they are large, 108 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: they require a lot of food to consume, and they 109 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 1: live in groups like we would find evidence eventually, even 110 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: if our forests can be quite large. So what would 111 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 1: say a bigfoot eat in these forests? Right? The forests 112 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: of North America? These are like say the boreal forests 113 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: or Appalachia. So large primate species such as ratans and 114 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: gorillas are omnivores with vegetation making up a large part 115 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: of their diet. Now, the problem with North America for 116 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: large primates or any primates really is the fact that 117 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: we have so many grasslands, and in our forests they 118 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: are made up of mainly coniferous trees, and these are 119 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: not great for getting a ton of non grass foliage 120 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: and for an arboreal lifestyle that most primates live. So 121 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: deer that live in these forests feed on weeds, grasses, 122 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: and twiggins, so herbivores can live in these forests. But 123 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: if there was a population of giant imates living in 124 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: these forests, we would see a lot of evidence of 125 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: them feeding on the flora, or if you want to 126 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: argue that they would be carnivorous, say maybe eating the 127 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: deer population, there would be evidence of that as well. 128 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: Conservations observe things like deer carcasses and they can look 129 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: for teethmark which actually they use that to track wolf 130 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: populations and wolf activity. So it would be highly unlikely 131 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: that a group of large predators would go unnoticed by 132 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 1: all of these conservationists, national park employees, researchers, and then 133 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: you know, random hikers other than the you know, like 134 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: I saw bigfoot once, which I do not really consider 135 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: evidence so much, like you know, anecdotal evidence maybe, but 136 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: not real, tangible, scientifically durable evidence. So what if these 137 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: bigfoots are really shy, really smart, and somehow have a 138 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: secret society so they cover up all their activity and 139 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: hide from people. I mean, this to me is extremely unlikely. 140 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: But let's look at a real example of a huge 141 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: primate that once lived that looks essentially like the popular 142 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: depiction of a bigfoot. This was Gigantopithecus, who lived about 143 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 1: two million to two hundred thousand years ago. It may 144 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: have weighed up to six hundred and fifty pounds, which 145 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: is about three hundred kilogram, so it was a big, 146 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: big guy big guys and gals. It sometimes is depicted 147 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: as walking upright, but really most likely it walked on 148 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: all fours like a gorilla, but like a gorilla, could 149 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: probably be occasionally bipedal, like to stand up make itself taller. 150 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: Based on the molars that were found in the fossil evidence, 151 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: it was likely an herbivore, and so this I've actually 152 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: I think that Gigantopithecus is sometimes argued in favor of 153 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: the existence of bigfoots, saying like, well, maybe it made 154 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: its way to North America and now it's secretly living there. 155 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: But here's the thing, Like, so evidence of this primate 156 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: was found in southern China in what would have been 157 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: at the time probably tropical or subtropical forests. So these 158 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: kinds of forests would better sustain a giant herbi of war, 159 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 1: much like the bamboo forests can sustain pandas and So 160 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: what is thought to have happened to Gigantopithecus is that 161 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: climate change made their food source more scarce, and so 162 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: they because they were so specialized in the in vegetation, 163 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: they were not able to get enough food. They were 164 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: not able to compete with other animals, and because they 165 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: were so big and they had such a high caloric need, 166 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: then they died out just because they could not get 167 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: enough food. So the question of like, well, could Gigantopithecus 168 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: have traveled from South China to North America and established 169 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: a secret society there, I think it's very unlikely. So 170 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: there's no archaeological evidence showing any movement of Gigantipithecus across Europe. 171 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: Their bones were dated around two hundred thousand years ago. 172 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: So in order to get to North America, they would 173 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 1: have had to cross the bearing Land Bridge, and the 174 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: bearing Land Bridge that is thought to have been the 175 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: way in which human beings were able to come from 176 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: from the Old World to the New World, which happened 177 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: about thirty five thousand years ago. Actually no, so the 178 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: bearing Land Bridge was revealed by way of the glaciers 179 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: melting so that you could actually access the bridge, but 180 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: it hadn't been flooded yet about thirty five thousand years 181 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: and I think human beings crossed it a little more recently, 182 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 1: around like ten twelve thousand years ago. So for Gigantipithecus 183 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: to have crossed the land bridge, it would have likely 184 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: been during an ice age period. And I don't even 185 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: know if the glaciers would have melted by them to 186 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,319 Speaker 1: allow access to the bearing land bridge. I mean it 187 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: was it fluctuated right over over the years, like there'd 188 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: be like it'd get cold and then there may be 189 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: be some warming. So there was were animals that would 190 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:33,319 Speaker 1: cross this land bridge. But for a for Gigantipithecus, which 191 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: was not really built for this kind of cold, very 192 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: scarce environment, is hard for me to imagine it could 193 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: have made it all the way from southern China to 194 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: North America. And again without any evidence, right like, because 195 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: if it had made it all the way to North America, 196 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: I would imagine it would be over many many years 197 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 1: of adapting to its environment. And if that was the case, right, 198 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: you know, you have this Gigantipitheca is that then slowly 199 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: adapted maybe changed a bit to be able to make 200 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: it to North America. Then we'd have fossil evidence like 201 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:13,079 Speaker 1: we have fossil evidence of mammoths. So I think that 202 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: is really really unlikely. I don't think a bigfoot would 203 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: be a gigantopithecus. Could it be some other primate that 204 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: once lived in North America? As our question ask or observed, 205 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: there are currently no known primates in North America other 206 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: than Canadians and Americans. But there were primates in North 207 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: America tens of millions of years ago, and these primates 208 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: died off around thirty million years ago as climate change 209 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: caused North America to become cold and dry rather than 210 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,439 Speaker 1: the warm, wet climate for lush forests that primates thrive in, 211 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: and these primates tended to be small. I do not 212 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: believe there were any primates in North or even in 213 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 1: South America that were the size of, say, unterrang or 214 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: a gorilla. So if small primates could not adapt to 215 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: this change, I cannot imagine how a large primate without say, 216 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: the social and technological advancement of humans, could have survived 217 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: while their smaller relatives did not survive. And if bigfoots 218 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: did somehow manage to survive through tool use or like 219 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: a bigfoot civilization. The fact that we don't see any 220 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: evidence of it is to me that is Beggar's belief, 221 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: like there would be some evidence of a bigfoot civilization. Actually, 222 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: the last primate that we have evidence of living in 223 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: North America was called igamo wee cha Shala, which was 224 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: only five pounds. It was a little over two kilograms, 225 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: and it was similar to a lemur. It died out 226 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: around twenty six million years ago. So again, the last 227 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: survivor of the changing climate in North America was it 228 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: heiny primate, and even it could not deal with the 229 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: competition for food. So I just I really don't see it. 230 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: I don't see how a bigfoot could survive or what really, 231 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: what you would expect to see would be a group 232 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: of you know, big big feet, big food foots, right, 233 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: because primates are generally social and you would need to 234 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: have you You couldn't have like the accounts of Bigfoot 235 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: spanning over hundreds of years. You would not just have 236 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: like one immortal bigfoot or a family of like two bigfoots. 237 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: That's not really a tenable situation. Yes, species can survive 238 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: with not that many members, but you need some of them, right, 239 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: And so in order for that to be the case, 240 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: there would be some evidence. And I think the question 241 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: asker also asked like if so, like why are they 242 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: only in South America? So that is because of the environment, right, Like, 243 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: so they used to be in North America because North 244 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: America's climate used to be more like South America is today, 245 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: where it was lush, there were these you know, wet, 246 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: moist forests with a lot of foliage. And again, primates 247 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: are generally arboreal. They live in the trees. So even 248 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: like the ancestors of say the gorilla, lived in trees. 249 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: Even though the gorilla is mostly now on the forest floor, 250 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: they also thrive in forest because of the large amount 251 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: of foliage insects food that an omnivore like a gorilla 252 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: can eat. Also, like orangutans who are quite large, are 253 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: still bor they live in the trees, They build nests 254 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: in the trees. So once she started getting more grasslands 255 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: and the forest started to dry out, it became not 256 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: very hospitable for primates. So yeah, we lost the primates 257 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: in North America. Another question that you asked in your 258 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: email was what is the difference sort of between cryptids 259 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: and an animal existing but not really being known. I mean, 260 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. I like you, like you 261 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: correctly pointed out, I'm not really much of a cryptid expert. 262 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: I think that. I mean, there are some cases right 263 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: where people think an animal is a hoax or a 264 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: cryptid and it turns out it is real, like the platypus. 265 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 1: Right Like, someone brought back a platypus that was, you know, 266 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: a dead platypus taxidermy to one and people thought, oh, 267 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,959 Speaker 1: you just sewed some random animal parts together, like a 268 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: bill and a tail, and it's laying eggs. You're saying, no, 269 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: that's ridiculous. And of course it turned out to be real. 270 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: But I think that that is becoming less and less 271 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: common because we have so much just like the mass 272 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,959 Speaker 1: amount of human observation it is, it is hard, and 273 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: we also have ways of analyzing things like analyzing DNA 274 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,679 Speaker 1: to be able to say, like verify if something is 275 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: actually what someone claims it is. Like there was a 276 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 1: case of I believe a coote and a domesticated dog 277 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: or a fox and a dog. It might have been 278 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: a fox and a dog that had it was like 279 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 1: a hybrid, which is extremely rare because they're not very 280 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: related and a DNA analysis actually showed that this is 281 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 1: probably was a hybrid of a fox and a dog, 282 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: which is really really interesting. And so like now it's 283 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: like harder to It's both harder to have a hoax, 284 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 1: right because you can do a DNA analysis of it, 285 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: but it's also easier to show that something is real, 286 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: So there's less time for something to get like a 287 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: cryptid status. And so yeah, I would say that, like 288 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: I would not really define like undiscovered or possibly existing, 289 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 1: but we're not really sure species as necessarily cryptid. Cryptid really, 290 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:55,360 Speaker 1: I think is more attached to the folklore wives tales 291 00:18:55,520 --> 00:19:01,640 Speaker 1: like word of mouth rather than the si scientific community. Right. 292 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: That's not to say that like people's observations are bad, right, 293 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 1: Like people's observations can absolutely help science and people observing 294 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: the animals, like you know, researchers should pay attention to 295 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: when people say like, hey, I saw this weird thing, 296 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 1: or a group of people have some kind of legend. 297 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 1: But the follow up is that you need to be 298 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: able to actually find you know, go to the area, 299 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: look for evidence, find things, and if you can't really 300 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: find anything to me, that's when it's like that is 301 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 1: like a cryptid, right, Like, we've never found at Chupacabra. 302 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 1: What we have found are coyotes that have mange and 303 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: so they don't have any hair, and then they die 304 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: and as they start to decay, their gum lines received 305 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,199 Speaker 1: so they look very scary, but it's really just a 306 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:49,919 Speaker 1: poor madrid in coyote that is decaying. So yeah, I 307 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: mean I think it. Cryptids are actually really interesting. I 308 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: find them fascinating. I love folklore. I love fairy tales, 309 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: but I do make a very strict distinct between what 310 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: I consider to be actual, like animal research and conservationist 311 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 1: efforts to like say, find as species that may or 312 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: may not be extinct, or even like discovering new species, 313 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: or listening to I think it is important to listen 314 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: to communities about like, hey, we think we saw something, 315 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 1: because even if it's not the thing that they think 316 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: it is or they think they saw, it could be 317 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: something kind of interesting, like how accounts of the mothman 318 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 1: might actually be sand hill cranes like veering off of 319 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: their regular migratory path. So I wouldn't I don't think 320 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: it's like good to be so dismissive of folklore, but 321 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: it's also I don't. I'm when like people sometimes try 322 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 1: to prove folklore with like scientific things of like, oh, well, 323 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: maybe there's this piece of bigfoot hair, but then it 324 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: turns out to be you know, dear hair or something, 325 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: or making these kind of like scientific arguments when there's 326 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: not that much evidence. I personally do not find that compelling. 327 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: But you know, hey, if you can write to me again, 328 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: if there are any more pro bigfoot arguments that you 329 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: want me to analyze or debunk, or if you're a 330 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 1: pro bigfoot person and you want to email me, go 331 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: for it. Like I'm here to hear your bigfoot arguments. 332 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and when we 333 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:22,880 Speaker 1: get back, we're going to answer more listener questions. All right, 334 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 1: on to the next listener question. Hi, Katie, I know 335 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: you've discussed on the pod before that rabbits, pikas, and 336 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: hares aren't rodents. They are lagomorphs. And according to the Internet, 337 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: this has been understood phylogenetically since nineteen twelve. That being 338 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: the case, why was I taught in elementary school in 339 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties in the US that they were rodents? 340 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,959 Speaker 1: Was this a failure of my teachers or the curriculum, 341 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: or am I experiencing the most niche case of the 342 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: Mandola effect. Thanks. Here is a photo of my Siamese 343 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: mix Karina. Thank you so much, and first of all, 344 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: I love Karina. For the listeners, this cat looks like 345 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: a princess who would not hesitate to start chopping heads 346 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: and getting stuff done. I do love a very tyrant 347 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: looking cat. She's beautiful, all right. So this is a 348 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: great question. Rabbits did actually used to be classified as 349 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: rodents in town until around the turn of the century. 350 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,959 Speaker 1: As you pointed out Question Asker and a lot of 351 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: popular media, they were referred to as rodents, So I 352 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: think that helps with the confusion. I think also people 353 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 1: probably have this idea that rodent means any kind of 354 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: small herbivore with large teeth. In fact, there are animals 355 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: who are rodents that are surprising to people, and animals 356 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: who seem like they should be rodents but who are not. 357 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: Phylogeny gets really confusing because we switched how we classified 358 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 1: these animals, like say, based on certain things physical characteristics 359 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: and assumed relatedness, which kind of transformed to be more 360 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 1: based on specific physiology like their digestive system. Rodents have 361 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: single pairs of continuously growing upper and lower incisors. And 362 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: then we also have more sophisticated methods now of understanding relatedness, 363 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: like genetic testing, and then all of this stuff gets 364 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: really hotly debated, like how we define certain like families 365 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,239 Speaker 1: of animals or clades of animals, Like this is not 366 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: none of this is necessarily super super settled, like it 367 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: can be kind of controversial, but yes, absolutely today, like 368 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: the most popular common assessment is that rabbits are lagomorphs. 369 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 1: They do not belong to the to Rodentia, although it 370 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: is confusing because rabbits also have continuously growing incisors. It's 371 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: just that they have two pairs on their upper jaw 372 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: and one pair on the lower jaw. And then also 373 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,120 Speaker 1: the one of the reasons they're not considered rodents is 374 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: the not being as related. But they do share a 375 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,719 Speaker 1: common ancestor with rodents, and so they do actually belong 376 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: to the same clade. Still, like the subject of the 377 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: phylogeny of rabbits and rodents, whether they should be in 378 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,679 Speaker 1: the same clade or not, it's been subject to a 379 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: lot of debates, So prepare for a lot of drama 380 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 1: if you bring this up at your local taxonomy meet up. 381 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 1: So some animals that people can be surprised to find 382 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 1: out are rodents. Let's talk about this because this is fun. 383 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: So beavers are rodents. They're large semi aquatic rodents. Similar 384 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 1: to the beaver. Are the nutria, another large semi aquatic 385 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 1: rodent who some people will mistake for giant rats. If 386 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: you see internet photos that claims that someone has found 387 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: like a cat sized rat and they hold up this 388 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: thing and it's enormous, that is probably a nutria, could 389 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: be a muskrat, but most of those photos I've seen 390 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: are nutria because I think people are more familiar with 391 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: what a muskrat is. So nutria are found in South America, 392 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 1: North America, and Europe. They weigh up to twenty pounds 393 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: or nine kilograms, and yeah, they're pretty similar to beavers. Actually, 394 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: they have large orange teeth that are reinforced with iron, 395 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 1: but they do not have the flat tail of a beaver. 396 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: They also do not really build dams in the same 397 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 1: way that beavers do. There's also the capybara, the very 398 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: sweet cute animal that people love. It looks like a 399 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: mule and a guinea pig had an adorable large baby. 400 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 1: Cappy Barras can weigh up to around one hundred and 401 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: fifty pounds, which is about sixty five kilograms, and they 402 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 1: live in South America and they are the world's largest rodent. Also, interestingly, 403 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: there is another thing that is somewhat similar to the 404 00:25:55,359 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 1: cappy barra. The Patagonian mara is also a rodent. It 405 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: looks kind of like a donkey rabbit. It's smaller than 406 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: the capybara. It weighs around thirty five pounds or sixteen kilograms, 407 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: and they are really really cute looking. There are some animals, 408 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: on the other hand, that look like they should be rodents, 409 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: but they are not so moles, shrews, hedgehogs, they are 410 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: not rodents, nor are solidons, which are shrew like mammals 411 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: that are actually venomous. They're very interesting, very kind of 412 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: prehistoric looking. So there is this animal called the moon rat. 413 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,360 Speaker 1: Fantastic name. I love it. They are a fascinating species 414 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: of mammal found in Southeast Asia who could easily be 415 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: confused for an apossum, But they are not apossums, nor 416 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: are they marsupials. They are actually more closely related to hedgehogs. 417 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: So moon rats not a rat, not a rodent, more 418 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: closely related to hedgehogs, even though they look like a possums. 419 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:05,679 Speaker 1: Confused stuff, but very very cool. So let's try to 420 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: do just a little quick game. So try to guess 421 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: whether this animal is a rodent or not a rodent. 422 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: So porcupines are they rodents? Are they not rodents? What 423 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,160 Speaker 1: are they? I'll give you a few seconds. Okay, times up. 424 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: Porcupines are actually rodents. They are found in both the 425 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: New World and the Old World. There's different species of porcupines, 426 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 1: and they are rodents, and they are not related. They 427 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: are not very related at all. Two hedgehogs, because hedgehogs 428 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: are not rodents, whereas porcupines are rodents. So yes, rodents 429 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: are not just tiny little animals that have big teeth. 430 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: It is a you know, fairly well defined, well defined 431 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: group of animals. But again there's like a lot of controversy, 432 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: a lot of argument about how exactly we define the 433 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 1: phylogeny and the taxonomy of animals. So I'm not surprised 434 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: that there's confusion confusion about rabbits being rodents, especially you know, 435 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: maybe back in the nineteen eighties when we didn't have 436 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: the Internet to correct us. Although now with the sort 437 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,120 Speaker 1: of like when you google something and the AI thing 438 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: comes up, that worries me because I'm not sure AI 439 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: is prepared to discuss the complex subject of phylogeny. But 440 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 1: we'll see. All Right, another quick break and when we 441 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: get back our last listener question. All right, here is 442 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: our last listener question. Hi, Katie, I recently watched Life 443 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen the movie, and oh my was I frightened 444 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: two bits. If you haven't watched it, then I won't 445 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: recommend it to you. It's that scary for me at least, 446 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: So it's okay if you can't answer my question, but 447 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: if you have watched it, I was wondering just how 448 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: realistic the science was in the movie to wake an 449 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: organism in stasis after billions of years, and also just 450 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: how probable was the organism's growth. Thanks for the awesome podcast. 451 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: A Concerned citizen of Earth and listener Jesse. Hey, Jesse, 452 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: So I did read the Wikipedia of this movie. A 453 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: guilty pleasure of mine is actually spoiling movies for myself 454 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: that I am too scared to watch. So I did 455 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: enjoy doing that the idea I guess of this movie, 456 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: which you described and I also read on the Wikipedia, 457 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: is that there's this organism found I guess in the 458 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: soil of Mars that has revived after billions of years, 459 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: and then it rapidly evolves in order to commit various 460 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: acts of bloody mischief aboard a space shuttle. And I 461 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: think Ryan Reynolds is there too. So, first, is it 462 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: realistic for something living to survive billions of years? So 463 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: we do know that some species can survive quite a while, 464 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: like that famous tiny animal, the tartar grade, who can 465 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 1: survive for decades in a state of stasis. It desiccates itself, 466 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: and it can survive extreme temperatures, extreme conditions for decades, 467 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: and it can be revived. But what about four billions 468 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: of years? So when we're on this timescale, we actually 469 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: start to wade into the wacky waters of physics instead 470 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: of biology, because now we're going to talk about like decay. 471 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: A piece of DNA, say preserved in a fossil or something, 472 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: can only survive for a few thousand years because of 473 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: the half life of DNA molecules. So the half life 474 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: of DNA is about five hundred years, So it only 475 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: takes a few million years for DNA to completely decay. 476 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: So for an organism with the DNA to survive millions 477 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: of years or billions of years, it would need to 478 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: be continually renewing its DNA, so it couldn't be in 479 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: a state of stasis. It would actually have to be say, reproduce, 480 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: renewing itself, right, reproducing itself in DNA for a single organism, 481 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 1: it can't, like cells can't endlessly reproduce, Like we have 482 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: telomere length which kind of like shortens as you are 483 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: continually doing cell replication, and then at a certain point, 484 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: as that telomere gets whittled down and down and down, 485 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: sort of like the body of a candle, then you 486 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: can no longer keep replicating cells, having cell replication without 487 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: having enormous genetic errors which can be represented in things 488 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,719 Speaker 1: like cancer and aging. And so yeah, that's why we 489 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: can't really have, you know, an immortal organism or organism 490 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: that lasts such a long time. So in order for 491 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: it to really survive that long, have to have some 492 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: kind of DNA or an RNA or genetic system that 493 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: does not use the same genetic system that we do, 494 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: like DNA or RNA, some kind of protein strand that 495 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: doesn't need these things. It's hard for me to conceive 496 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: of like how that would actually work, right, So, but 497 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: you know, you could have maybe an organism that is 498 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: made up of smaller organisms that are you know, dying 499 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: and then evolving over many millions of years, right like there, 500 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: I mean there are things like forest systems or like 501 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: coral systems where you know, one could look at these 502 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: things as kind of like one mega organism that has 503 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: all these smaller units to it that are sort of 504 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: reproducing and you know, somewhat maintaining this this system that 505 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 1: I suppose you could look at it as like an organism, right, 506 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: like a coral reef that is made up of all 507 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: these kind of interconnected corals that are self replicating or 508 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: sexually reproducing and then lasting you know, many many thousands 509 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: of years, or or for systems that are lasting millions 510 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: of years. You could see that as like an organism. 511 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: So maybe an alien organism could be made up of 512 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: a bunch of individual little organisms. But I don't know 513 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: that it would survive stasis, right because again you run 514 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: into that half life issue of like if these are 515 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: if this is just inert DNA sitting there. The molecules 516 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: have to follow the rules of physics in terms of 517 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: like these these you know, bonds like breaking down and decaying, 518 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: and so yeah, I really don't see how something like 519 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: DNA or RNA or even an alien version of DNA 520 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: or RNA could survive billions of years, let alone, right, 521 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: millions or thousands of years, because it would start to 522 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: break down, and even before it's broken down completely, once 523 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: you start to break down, that's interesting reducing so many errors, 524 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: And it's not like DNA is super robust against like 525 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: a lot of errors or a lot of breakdown, because 526 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:11,760 Speaker 1: then you would get, you know, genetic problems that would 527 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: be really bad for an organism. So but let's kind 528 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: of move past that the idea of it surviving in 529 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 1: stasis for so long and into the idea of it 530 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: rapidly going under evolution. So basically in the movie, I 531 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 1: think it changes shape and size and the shape of 532 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,920 Speaker 1: its body and its teeth over time, right, like it 533 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 1: seems to be able to evolve really rapidly. Evolution doesn't 534 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: generally work in this way where you have a single 535 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 1: organism changing its body and its genes over its own 536 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 1: lifetime because of the way that genetics work in terms 537 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: like your genes cannot really change that much over a 538 00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:01,320 Speaker 1: single lifetime or mutate in rapid response to your environment. 539 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,439 Speaker 1: There's some amount of that, right, Like you can argue that, hey, 540 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,240 Speaker 1: we have an immune system, right, and our immune cells 541 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,879 Speaker 1: undergo evolutionary pressures and stuff when we're introduced to pathogens, 542 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: and so there is some amount of like evolution happening 543 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:22,280 Speaker 1: within a complicated organism over its lifetime. But generally speaking, 544 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: like to have really dramatic changes over a lifetime of 545 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: a complex organism, I'm pretty skeptical now if this is 546 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 1: made up of like say it's a super organism made 547 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,279 Speaker 1: out of individual organisms and they're all under they're like 548 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: tiny microorganisms that are all undergoing evolution, right and reproducing, 549 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: having genetic mutations and responding dynamically to evolutionary pressures, and 550 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: then are forming this maga organism. Again, like to be 551 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: able to like we do see animals like this, right, 552 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: but usually like say you have a slime mold that 553 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: is made up of individual organisms, but then it's basically 554 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: like a blob. To create a more complicated organism that 555 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: has structure or teeth or a form that is responding 556 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 1: to its environment. I don't see how you would need 557 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,319 Speaker 1: something very different from our system of DNA or even 558 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:25,320 Speaker 1: RNA in order to have something that can evolve that rapidly, 559 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,840 Speaker 1: because again it's like you need it's not it's it 560 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 1: would need to have an incredibly rapid life span of 561 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,839 Speaker 1: this DNA and in credibly rapid sex and mutations. And 562 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: one of the issue with really really rapid mutations, or 563 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 1: really dramatic rapid mutations, is that will mess you up. 564 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 1: A mutation can have a really good chance of just 565 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 1: killing you, right, So if you have these massive rapid 566 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: mutations happening, most likely outcome is you just die. So yeah, 567 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 1: I'm I do not think we have to worry about 568 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: this kind of alien unless there's some completely different type 569 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: of you know, protein strand in, like an alien genetics 570 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: that works completely differently. I have a hard time conceptualizing that. 571 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: But who knows. I could be wrong and there could 572 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 1: be aliens among us right now disguising themselves as things 573 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 1: like your box of tissues or a podcast. But yeah, no, 574 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: not very likely, I think. So. I'm sorry to be 575 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,840 Speaker 1: a wet blanket on this episode to be like aliens. 576 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 1: Encryptids don't exist. Actually, I do think that aliens exist. 577 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: I don't know what they would look like or seem like, 578 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,400 Speaker 1: but I think it is very likely given on our Earth, 579 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 1: how we see so much parallel evolution. Like basically humans 580 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:53,360 Speaker 1: and octopuses evolved completely independently. We our last common ancestor 581 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 1: was like kind of a warm thing with a simple 582 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: eye spot, and yet we both evolved brain, we both 583 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: evolved eyes, we both seem to actually dream. So I 584 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,719 Speaker 1: think that, like, it is very likely that if you 585 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:11,320 Speaker 1: have the conditions on some planet somewhere for life, complex 586 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:15,480 Speaker 1: organisms that are not like completely different from organisms on 587 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: Earth could evolve. Like I think that is a reasonable 588 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: thing to believe. And I do think that believing in 589 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: aliens is not weird or wacky, just that the aliens 590 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,920 Speaker 1: in this movie, in this life movie. I don't buy 591 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 1: it so much, all right, So before we go last week, 592 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,359 Speaker 1: I played a rerun episode because I was having some 593 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 1: technical difficulties with my studio. But there was a mystery 594 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,879 Speaker 1: animal sound on that episode, and the hint was this. 595 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 1: It was if you've got happy feet, this is not 596 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 1: a sound you want to hear, all right, So I've 597 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: got a few correct guesters here, Jacob Bim, damiumg I 598 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,920 Speaker 1: said Damium, didn't I, Damien, g Anna El, and Nicole 599 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:13,279 Speaker 1: l all guess correctly. Congratulations. So next week there will 600 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 1: be a new mystery animal sound as well as the 601 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,520 Speaker 1: answer to the mystery animal sound that was played on 602 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,799 Speaker 1: the episode is Earth Alive which aired a couple weeks ago, 603 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 1: so stay tuned for that. Thank you guys so much 604 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,880 Speaker 1: for writing to me with your questions. I love answering these, 605 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,479 Speaker 1: like I still love the main episodes with the guests 606 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,879 Speaker 1: and everything, but I actually have a lot of fun 607 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 1: answering these questions, so I hope you're enjoying that as well. 608 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:41,440 Speaker 1: And if you would like to write to me, you 609 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,360 Speaker 1: can write to me at Creature feature Pod at gmail 610 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,319 Speaker 1: dot com. Your questions, your comments, your pictures of your 611 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: beautiful pets, always love those, or if you think you know, 612 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 1: actually I guess. If you want to listen to is 613 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: Earth Alive and then that last part has that mystery 614 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,799 Speaker 1: animal sound and want to answer that, you can also 615 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,360 Speaker 1: send your mystery animal sound answers to that email address 616 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,960 Speaker 1: as well. Thank you guys so much for listening, and 617 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: thanks to the Space Classics for their super awesome song 618 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 1: Exil Lumina Creature features a production of iHeartRadio. For more 619 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:17,319 Speaker 1: podcasts like the one you just heard, visit the iHeartRadio 620 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 1: app Apple Podcasts, or Hey, guess what where are you 621 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. I'm not your mother, and 622 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 1: I can't tell you what to do, but I do 623 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 1: care about you and I hope you have like chocolate 624 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,359 Speaker 1: chip cookies and milk, so you know, have a good 625 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,960 Speaker 1: day and I'll see you next Wednesday.