1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: I'm here in my backyard with my seven year old Ruby, 2 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,559 Speaker 1: and it's pretty clear Ruby has some strong words for 3 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: me about my recent gardening failure. I notice, why do 4 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: you did basy? But please don't clain me. Who who 5 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: do you say to blame? Feel this is not the 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: first time I've committed atrocity like this. My backyard is 7 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 1: littered with tiny green casualties all my attempts to develop 8 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: a green thumb. But I am determined to get better 9 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: at this, to achieve, to cement my place among the 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: grades of gardening, and at the very least grow something, 11 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: even if it's just for my own family, so that 12 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: they can enjoy the literal fruits of my labor. So 13 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: let's dig into this journey where hopefully I'll do some 14 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: growing and maybe my plants will too. Hey there, I'm Mure, 15 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: a co host of Part Time Genius, one of the 16 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: founders of Metal Flaw, and this is Humans Growing Stuff, 17 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: a collaboration from My Heart Media and your friends and 18 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: Miracle Grow. My goal is to make this the most 19 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,199 Speaker 1: human show about plants you'll ever listen to. Along the way, 20 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: we'll share sweet, inspiring stories, tips and tricks to nurture 21 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 1: your plant addiction, and just enough science to make you 22 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: sound like an expert at your next Zoom happy Hour. 23 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: And in this episode, we'll take you through how my 24 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: big grudging relationship with gardening began and talk about why 25 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: instead of resenting my failed experiments in the dirt, it's 26 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: given me some much needed peace of mind. It's Me 27 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: and the mental health Benefits of gardening. Chapter one, Plants 28 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: or the New Therapist. If Andrea Agasi you can start 29 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: out the first page of his autobiography with the sentence 30 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: I hate Tennis, I feel like maybe I can say 31 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: the same thing about gardening, because the truth is, I'm 32 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: like the Charlie Brown of gardening. But what's shocking about 33 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: the fact that I can't garden is that I actually 34 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: come from a long line of gardening experts. My grandfather 35 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: was a botanist. He published papers on growing tropical forests, 36 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: and he became a chief of forestry in India, where 37 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: he literally raised and protected forests. My dad was also 38 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: an agriculture He worked on her besides and tried to 39 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: figure out how to make giant crops yield more food. 40 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: My uncle is a master gardener. My mom can I 41 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: d almost any plant you throw at her. So I 42 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: feel like, somewhere lurking inside me, there's this gardener that's 43 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: waiting to be awoken. But I've been confused as to 44 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: why I never got into gardening. So I called up 45 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: my sister Shampa. So I am calling you because you know, 46 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: I'm doing this gardening podcast right and I'm trying to 47 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: figure out what people think of me as a gardener. 48 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: And I'm certain that you have some memories of me 49 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: as a child. Well, what do you remember about me 50 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: going into the garden with you guys and gardening as 51 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:03,959 Speaker 1: a family. You would slowly disappear, I remember, and when 52 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: we realized that you were gone, you'd come like uh, 53 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 1: with a glamorous tray of some kind of snacks or drinks. 54 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: I think ice coffee was a hit of yours. Most 55 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: ice cream, I think, um. But I remember being like 56 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: dirty and you'd come out with your clean clothes and 57 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 1: a snack. I have a history of avoiding gardening, but 58 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: I feel like I need gardening right now, because did 59 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: you know what actually relieves stress and reduces anxiety that 60 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: is backed by actual science. In a study published by 61 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: the Journal of Physiological Anthropology, subjects were monitored while tending 62 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: to and transplanting indoor plants, and then monitored again while 63 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: completing a task on a computer, and subjects had significantly 64 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: lower blood pressure after working with the plants. Then there 65 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: are all these other impressive studies that show the positive 66 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: impact gardening can have on patients with PTSD, you know, 67 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: post traumatic stress disorder. Groups of veterans who suffered from 68 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: PTSD who participated in horticultural therapy actually showed greater control 69 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: over their symptoms. And in this era, when we're stuck 70 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: at home and I can't really see my friends or family, 71 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 1: I've been looking for a new way to manage some 72 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 1: of my mounting stress and anxiety, something to get excited 73 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: about and do with my kids and obsess over in 74 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: the best possible way. But before I get my hands dirty, 75 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: I want to reach out to my good friend Barry 76 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: tin Day. Thurston Bearing today is one of the most 77 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 1: renaissance people I know, and I'm saying that as someone 78 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: who's gone to renaissance festivals. Bear twin Days a writer 79 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: and activist, comedian, and now a podcaster. He hosts the 80 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: incredible how to Citizen with Bear ten Day, which makes 81 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: me want a citizen as a verb. He is the 82 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: author of the best selling book How to Be Black, 83 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,679 Speaker 1: which is so good. He's been gardening his whole life, 84 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: and if he hasn't gotten tired of it yet, I 85 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: figure he's the right person to go. Do you for 86 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 1: some growing inspiration and motivation recording. Now I'm gonna give 87 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: you a clap welcome, thank you. I do everything wrong 88 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 1: with plants, like I overwater them, I underwater them. I 89 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: have him in the wrong spots of the house, the 90 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: wrong size pots. I go on vacation without them, which 91 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: I don't think they love. I'm just looking for inspiration 92 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 1: from someone who's been a lifelong gardener, and I wanted 93 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: to ask you to tell me about how you got 94 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: into gardening. YO. First of all, you're not alone, but 95 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: start somewhere small and and just walk down and know 96 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 1: you're gonna kill something like I don't know if you're 97 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 1: gonna become I've already done that part. So, my guest, 98 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: you sound like you're in some kind of like you know, 99 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: backyard tribunal is going to hit you pretty soon, like 100 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: for like war crimes, Like the scale of the slaughter 101 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 1: sounds pretty pretty significant. Plants can be very fickle. Sometimes 102 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,799 Speaker 1: they act like little divas and they have very high demands. 103 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: Their persnickety, they're finicky like. So don't feel like you're 104 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: too special or two alone in this. And I've just 105 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: returned to gardening. But as a child, I found it 106 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 1: pretty soon because my mother enrolled me in a community garden. 107 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: It felt like miles and miles and miles away from 108 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: home because it was not on our block, but I 109 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 1: think it was maybe twenty blocks away. And so I 110 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: had a little plot of land and I would grow 111 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: veggies and we would eat them. And so what I thought, 112 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 1: you know, was my mother trying to expand my horizons 113 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: and get me to explore our the outdoors in a 114 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: relationship with nature. Might have just been child labor, right. 115 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 1: It might have just been let's not go to the 116 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: grocery store so much. This little human can make food 117 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 1: happen all on his own. One of the things I 118 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 1: saw in your Twitter feed that I really loved and 119 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: I've been thinking about is how plants connect you to 120 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: the president and to the past. Yeah, so I have 121 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: snake plants. We've we've always had snake plants in our family, 122 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: and I have been taking care of these plants for 123 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: my whole life actually, so I have plants that no 124 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: me from when I was, you know, six years old, 125 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: and my mother passed away in two thousand five of 126 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: colon cancer, and I have the plants from her home too. 127 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: In all those moves that I had made when she 128 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: was alive or even after she passed in two thousand five, 129 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: they were driving moves, you know. When I moved from 130 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: Boston to New York, that was me moving to a 131 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: city that she never knew me as a resident of. 132 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: That was a really big deal for me to move 133 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: to New York in two thousand and seven, two years 134 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: after and my mother wasn't part of that journey, and 135 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: I did not let the moving company handle the plants. 136 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: I drove them myself in my car along with her ashes. 137 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: So I have like actual like evidence of her life 138 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: and these plants who kind of knew her. When I 139 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: moved to California a year ago, I had to ship 140 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: them and they survived the journey. And one of the 141 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: first things that we did when we moved in there's 142 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: no furniture, we didn't have a bed yet, but we 143 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: had the plant and I potted my mother's snake plants, 144 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: and it was like she moved with us. It was 145 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: like she got to meet uh this new place and 146 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: inhabit it with us. And now those plants are behind 147 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: me and all of the zoom calls and I'm forced 148 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 1: to do every day that she sits with me. So 149 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 1: the snake plants have ebbed and flowed in size over 150 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: the year, and depending on how well I've taken care 151 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,599 Speaker 1: of them, um and how crowded they are in in 152 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:44,959 Speaker 1: a pot, so they will they will kind of grow 153 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: into the space. You a lot for them. And so 154 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 1: I had just been maintaining them. Then Elizabeth took over. 155 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: But my partner, my fiance, Elizabeth, I tell you, she's 156 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: like the queen of the green around here because she 157 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: went and I used to clown about, You're always buying 158 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:00,839 Speaker 1: more pots and bigger things things and more this than that. 159 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: But then she made it beautiful. The snake plants that 160 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: she's been taken care of are huge. They are bursting 161 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: with life. They're so vibrant, and it's so emotional and 162 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: beautiful for me because my fiance never got to meet 163 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: my mother, and here she is kind of bringing her 164 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: to life in our shared home and taking such care 165 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: and with such conscientiousness, and the plants are responding. So 166 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: to me, it's like, oh my mom, My Mom approves, 167 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: you know, like she's feeling the love. You know, you're 168 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 1: doing the respectful things. She was always very big on 169 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: respect taking care of these plants, and they're rewarding us 170 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: with a greener, brighter, stronger presence. So the ones in 171 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: my office are doing okay. The ones that taken care 172 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 1: of are thriving. I feel like this is why I 173 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: need a garden, Like as much as I need it 174 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: for like the relaxation and the meditative aspects of it. 175 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: I also just like stories is a big part and 176 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: when you and you can create stories. So one of 177 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: the things, like just noticing what's already here has been 178 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: a really necessary mental health exercise. My my days are 179 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: very exhausting in that, like many of us, I stare 180 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: at a computer screen all day. I also um handle 181 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: hazardous material on a daily basis with respect to white 182 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,439 Speaker 1: supremacy and ideas of race and racism, especially in the 183 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: United States. And I talk about these things, and I 184 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: read about these things, and I write about these things, 185 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: and I make shows about these things, and it is toxic. 186 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: Um and sometimes it gets to four or five pm 187 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: on the day and I'm burnt out and I'm fired up, 188 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 1: and I'm piste off, or I'm sad, or I'm all 189 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: of those at once. And if I just go outside 190 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: and initially reluctantly do something that needs doing in the garden, 191 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: turn the m post, chop up some bananappeals, to add 192 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: to the compost, check in on the plants, trim or prune, 193 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 1: and those leaves are not dehumanizing me. Twenty minutes of 194 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: that is meditation to just live and breathe and be 195 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: in harmony with more life, and that helps me feel 196 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: less trapped in this world that most of us did 197 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: not sign up for are not enjoying. And to see 198 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: these plants still produce some fruit and still growing, and 199 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: they have a sense of the movement of time through 200 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: the life of plants, whether they were the ones who 201 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: were here already, are the ones we added to the mix. 202 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:49,319 Speaker 1: That slows things down, and it gives some differentiation to 203 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: the days which all start to blur into one long 204 00:11:53,840 --> 00:12:00,839 Speaker 1: zoom call and that's not life. I've actually been thinking 205 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:02,959 Speaker 1: about that a lot. How Like in this groundhog day, 206 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: these plants are kind of this tangible measure of time. 207 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 1: I love that you think about that too, their proof 208 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: of life. Like we're all being held hostage, and these 209 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,839 Speaker 1: plants are like they're the markings on the door frame 210 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: that showed that time is passing. They're they're continuing to 211 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: live and probably somehow showing us how to as well, 212 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,559 Speaker 1: if we would slow down enough to pay attention. I'm 213 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: not quite there yet, fair Tenday. It is always such 214 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: a pleasure to chat with you. Thank you so much 215 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: for the inspiration and the time. Thank you for having me. 216 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: Good luck with your own growing. And now for a 217 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: section we call poetry corner. This poem is called Observations 218 00:12:52,080 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: from a Serial Plant Murderer. Orange black for a million hazel. 219 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 1: These aren't colors that you want your basil. Thank you. 220 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: After I chatted with bear Tin day, I couldn't stop 221 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: thinking about what he said about starting small. So I 222 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 1: dusted off a pair of gardening shears for my basement. 223 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: I found a pretty copper watering can, and I took 224 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: my kids this little nursery just a few blocks from 225 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 1: our house. So you tell me a little bit about 226 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: we went to a nursery this weekend. Right, It was 227 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,719 Speaker 1: super fun. We went with your brother. Uh, tell me 228 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 1: what it felt like to walk into the nursery because 229 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: it was so hot outside, right, what did it feel 230 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: like when we walked inside? Just felt so cool, so nice. 231 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: It was just so it was just fun. Yeah. And 232 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: and what did it look like? Well, from a plant, 233 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,239 Speaker 1: you were on chilts and then once you came outside, 234 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: do you see this hanter plants on the ground. It 235 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: was just like a juncle. I was starting to feel 236 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: better already, which makes sense because, as I mentioned, there's 237 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: actually a lot of science behind the mental health benefits 238 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: of just being around plants. According to data collected and 239 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: reported by researchers at Texas A and M University, living 240 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: near green spaces can improve your mood, It can reduce aggression, 241 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: and even lessen the negative impacts of stress on your health. 242 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: So as I watched as Henry picked out a little 243 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: palm and Ruby found this money tree, just being with 244 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: them in these plants, I could feel my stress and 245 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: my anxiety fade away. But after a week, those bright 246 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: green leaves were on the yellow and we were quickly 247 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: entering basil plant territory, and I didn't want another funeral 248 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: on my heads. So I reached out to a gardening expert, 249 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: Mr Planti himself, Michael Perry. The Sunday Times has declared 250 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: I'm one of the top twenty most influential horticulturalist. Is 251 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: an expert gardener, port preneurs and co host of the 252 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: Plant Based podcast, and we're so excited to have him here. 253 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: Michael Perry, thank you so much for being on the show. 254 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you for the wonderful intro. One of 255 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: the most intriguing things to me about your bio is 256 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: that you worked as a plant hunter. It's it's not 257 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: plant hunting as in I was climbing down ravines and 258 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: you know, dangling off cliffs, but very much kind of 259 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: plant hunting in terms of visiting lots of breeding companies, 260 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: going to see customers at home to collect unusual plants, 261 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: you know, going into the kitchens of a lot of 262 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: these breeding companies in order to select new plants, but 263 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: also devise ways of marketing with new plants and existing plants. 264 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: So it was a very very unusual role and not 265 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: one that you could have predicted or had any training for. 266 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: I honestly a lotted so much and one of the 267 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: things I saw that you had introduced was the egg 268 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: and chips plant. Yeah, can you can you tell the 269 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: listeners when the egg and chip plant is because it 270 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: is fascinating. Well, egg and chips plant is basically all 271 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: one plant which is grafted in the middle so it 272 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: grows as one. And it's an eggplant a k a 273 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: abergine on the top and a potato on the bottom. 274 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: So hence the egg and chips. There's also another plant 275 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: in that series, which is the tomotato, and that is 276 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: tomatoes on the top and potatoes on the bottom. And 277 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: that was actually marketed as ketchup and fries plant in 278 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: the US, But the tomtato concept wasn't necessarily new. This 279 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: is something that used to be done during the war 280 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: in order to make the use of space in limited 281 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: spacing gardens and on allotments. Tell me a little bit 282 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: about your grandparents garden and and and what it was 283 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: about it that that was such a dry to you. 284 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: When you're a kid, you know, your parents dump you 285 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 1: there and the grandparents look after you, and you tend 286 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: to you tend to get to know and love the 287 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: things that your grandparents are into. And for me, it 288 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: was growing and growing plants to exhibit a flower shows. 289 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: They were selling up markets as well, but yeah, it 290 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: was a lovely childhood and they had this very big garden. 291 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: I was always getting lost and you know, wanting to 292 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: be in the wilderness and growing the plants. Obviously started 293 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: doing that at home as well, and it was yeah, 294 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: and just learned so much. Was such a magical time. 295 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: What are some easy ways to start building an urban 296 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 1: jungle in my apartment in Brooklyn inside, So that's obviously 297 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 1: house plants. House plants are massively trendy over the last 298 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 1: few years. I don't know what your light situation is, 299 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: but it's probably better to start with a few plants 300 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: that are less fussy about the lighting. So like the 301 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: z Z plant would be perfect. Various different types of 302 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: pothos Latin name often shown as skin dapsis or ePRO primum, 303 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: or you could have some color fears. They're not too fussy. 304 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 1: Spider plants quite classic. A lot of foliage plants are 305 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: probably going to be the most versatile thing for you 306 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: to go for. But if you have got some sunnier 307 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: rooms and you can have some flowering plants, I mean 308 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: a lot of people overlook orchids. A lot of the time, 309 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: I think because the price on orchids is really really 310 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: came down, you know, I Kea was selling them for 311 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: like two euros apiece, so people hadn't got the same 312 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: respect for them. But all kids are incredible house plants. 313 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: They blew for six weeks of the year, they're versatile, 314 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: and or it's the one that I feel like I've 315 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: read something about a plant that you put ice cubes 316 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: in and let it melts, that this advice has kind 317 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 1: of got a little bit mangled down the line because 318 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: it's it's the equivalent of an ice cube per week. 319 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: That makes so much more sense. It's nothing actual ice 320 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: cube because kind of if you get that cold directly 321 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: onto the roots of the orchid, it won't like it. 322 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: So I often kind of rebrand that as and shot 323 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: glass of water per week because that's similar amounts. So 324 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: shot glass espresso cup worth of water per week is 325 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: going to keep your orchids super happy. Or you can 326 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: do the soak and leave it method, where you basically 327 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: soak the orchids in a big bucket of water or 328 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: a sink of water for about twenty minutes and then 329 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: let them dry because you've got to remember or chids 330 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 1: in the rainforest, they go through you know, wet periods 331 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: to dry, so they're used to drying out in between, 332 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: so you need to always let them dry out in between. 333 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 1: I'm curious about your own gardening practice. I mean, you're 334 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: so busy with all the podcasts and the website and 335 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: the business. What are some of the health benefits you've 336 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: seen or felt from gardening and how do you work 337 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: into your daily life. It's just it's about connection with 338 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,360 Speaker 1: nature really. I mean, I've just moved into a new 339 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: house and I seem to have I've got probably fifty 340 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: house plants, but I don't. I don't walk around thinking, oh, 341 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 1: that's fifty house plants, because I feel like it's just 342 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,199 Speaker 1: something I just need in my life. And it's kind 343 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: of like the decor of the room. It softens the 344 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: room obviously, you know, unknowingly, it makes me feel good, 345 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: you know, it's nice to have something to care for. 346 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: But it's also purifying the air in a in a 347 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: very basic way, you know, removing toxins are at a 348 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: very low level as well, and just generally uplifting. I'm 349 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,919 Speaker 1: just having a garden my new garden landscaped here as well, 350 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 1: and I can't wait to get on board with all 351 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: the planting. But obviously it doesn't help that I'm so indecisive. 352 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: I'll be digging everything up in two months. I like 353 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 1: that permission to be indecisive. Gardening feels very unachievable to 354 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: a beginner because there's lots of experts. They kind of 355 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: don't necessarily explain it in a simple way because I 356 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: think they're afraid of dumbing it down. Actually, you need 357 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: to make gardening accessible and explain it very differently to 358 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: different people. And also failure, failure is not a bad 359 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: thing at all, And failure in gardening is very natural 360 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: and it happens a lot because plants are like they're 361 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: like living people. They're not always going to behave in 362 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: the way that you want them to. They're going to 363 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: contract diseases or illnesses or not be happy in the 364 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 1: conditions you put them in. But just don't panic. Just 365 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 1: brush yourself down and move on. You know, if a 366 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 1: lot of people kind of see it as oh, I 367 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: haven't got green fingers, or they see it as their 368 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: own failure, but you know, there's a lot more going 369 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: on with the plant than you know. The state of 370 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: your green fingers. Thank you so much for being here. 371 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: Thank you. When I was a kid, one of the 372 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: things my parents wouldn't let me do was get a skateboard. 373 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: When I went off to college, the first thing I 374 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: did was I bought one, and I from as the 375 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: story has a point, this skateboard. It was mostly decoration 376 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: sometimes my friends and I wrote it down the dorm's 377 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: carpeted hallway. But the thing I started noticing when I 378 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,199 Speaker 1: took it out into the real world is how everything 379 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,239 Speaker 1: has an incline. Places that you could have sworn were 380 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: flat parking lots and sidewalks. Suddenly I started noticing every 381 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: dip and angle and just how fast you could race 382 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: forward if you just stood there on your death skating. 383 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: Just a little bit that I did, it made me 384 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,360 Speaker 1: see all this topography completely differently, and I was aware 385 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: of this whole new world. My chat with Michael Perry 386 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: was fun and inspiring and and just dipping my toe 387 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: into the gardening world. I'm starting to see my apartment differently, 388 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: like a plant side view. I mean, it's it's weird 389 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: to say, but I never really thought about which way 390 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,199 Speaker 1: the windows faced or exactly how much sun they were 391 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: letting in. I just knew it was bright, and I 392 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: wasn't thinking about the air conditioner or the poor plants 393 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: I'd set right in front of it. The other thing 394 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: that's been on my mind is, well, I've been thinking 395 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,919 Speaker 1: a lot about Barreton Day and his mom and all 396 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: the years and lives those plants he carries have witnessed. 397 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: I've been thinking about what my kids will have and 398 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: remember of me years from now, like can we use 399 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: this weird period of quarantine, ng and and virtual schooling 400 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 1: to foster a level of plants together? And I've been 401 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 1: thinking about the memories I carry. I never got much 402 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: time with my grandfather, the botanist. He passed away when 403 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: I was nine, and I grew up in the States, 404 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: so aside from a few summers in India, I know 405 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: him mostly through the stories my family tells, But I 406 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: do have a few memories. I cling to walking to 407 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: market with him, trying to keep up because even though 408 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: he was short, he walked so fast, fucking tiny bananas 409 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: off a tree in the backyard and splitting them open 410 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: together they were just so sweet and creamy. And then 411 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: there's this time I fell asleep after dinner on the 412 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,959 Speaker 1: divan in the living room, and he woke me up 413 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: gently and walked me to bed. But before he did, 414 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: he brought me into this little courtyard in the back 415 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: of the house, and together we spied on a flower there, 416 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 1: one that only bloomed at night. I only kind of 417 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: remember how the flower looked. It was Bethlehem Louie, and 418 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: I know it was white and full, drenched in moonlight. 419 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: And I remember my grandfather whispering to me about how 420 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,160 Speaker 1: ephemeral it was, that the petals would actually crumble off 421 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: by morning. And I remember holding his hand and knowing 422 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: somehow that all of this was special, magical. All of 423 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: that feels a world away tonight. I'm tired, anxious, I 424 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: can't stop thinking about the headlines. My family is asleep, 425 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 1: so I've come upstairs to make myself some tea and 426 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: too tidy and to putter. But instead of grabbing a 427 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: book or turning on the TV, I noticed the plants. 428 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: I spot the ones my kiddos, Henry and Ruby, brought 429 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: home from the nursery today, and I remember what the 430 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 1: man at the shop said. The small one needs indirect light, 431 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 1: so I moved it from the sill to the mantel, 432 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: and then I spot a few brown leaves on a 433 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: different plant, so I grabbed some nearby scissors and I 434 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 1: start to snip, and in the quiet of the night, 435 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: I start visiting each plant, testing the soils with my finger, 436 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: mapping out a proper watering schedule, And in between thinking 437 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,360 Speaker 1: about my family and forgetting the troubles of my day, 438 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: I start dreaming what this room could look like with 439 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: a little more green. Should I buy some hanging plants? 440 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: Do I need some more pots or stands? I surveyed 441 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,160 Speaker 1: the room and imagine the possibilities, and I actually begin 442 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: to smile, And somehow I tell myself, maybe this growing 443 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: stuff is something I can do, something I can figure 444 00:25:53,520 --> 00:26:02,400 Speaker 1: out together with you. That's it for today's episode. Don't 445 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: forget whether you're a beginner like me, a pro trying 446 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: something new, or someone in between enjoying your community garden. 447 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: There are incredible resources waiting for you on the Miracle 448 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: Grow website. Next time on our show, we'll dig into 449 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: pumpkin spice gardening and figure out what to plan outside, 450 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: what to bring inside, and discover just how far my 451 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: wife and kids will let me take this new obsession 452 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: of mine. Humans Growing Stuff is a collaboration from I 453 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and your friends at Miracle Grow. Our show 454 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: is written and produced by Molly Sosha and me Mongy 455 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: Chatigler in partnership with Ryan Ovadia, Daniel Ainsworth, Haley Ericsson, 456 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 1: and Garrett Shannon of Banter Until next time, Thanks so 457 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: much for listening.