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Speaker 1: Hello friends, we have a book coming out finally and

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Speaker 1: it is awesome. You're gonna make me say the title again. Yeah, fine,

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Speaker 1: it's Stuff you Should Know colon An Incomplete Compendium of

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Speaker 1: mostly interesting Things. And get this chuck. You don't have

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Speaker 1: can do what we in the book biz called pre

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Speaker 1: ordering it, and then when it does come out, you'll

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Speaker 1: be the first to get it, or among the first. Well.

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Speaker 1: And not only that, you get a pre order gift,

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Speaker 1: you get this cool custom poster from the illustrator of

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Speaker 1: the book, Carli Monardo, who is awesome. We worked with

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Speaker 1: another great writer who helped us out with this thing

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Speaker 1: a great deal. His name is Nils Parker, and it

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Speaker 1: was just a big team effort and it's really really cool.

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Speaker 1: We love how it's turning out. Yeah, we do. So

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Speaker 1: anywhere you can buy books, you can go pre order

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Speaker 1: the Stuff you Should Know Colon An Incomplete Compendium of

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Speaker 1: mostly Interesting Things, and then after you do you can

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Speaker 1: go on over to stuff you Should read books dot

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Speaker 1: com and upload your receipt and get that order poster.

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Speaker 1: So thank you in advance for everybody who is pre ordering.

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Speaker 1: That means quite a bit to us, and we appreciate you.

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Speaker 1: Stuff you should read Books dot Com pre order. Now

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Speaker 1: welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, I'm welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chucker's Bryant over there.

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Speaker 1: Jerry was just here doing the COVID set up and

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Speaker 1: then got out of the room really quick, held her

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Speaker 1: breath for five straight minutes. It's a new record, it really,

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Speaker 1: It's a new studio record. Sure. Uh, and this is

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Speaker 1: stuff you should know. That's that's no David Blaine record,

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Speaker 1: by the way. No, I mean that's our studio record.

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Speaker 1: You should see her when she's pearl diving though, right,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't that be something If Jerry did have a secret

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Speaker 1: life pearl diving, that would be amazing, it would um.

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Speaker 1: But we're not talking about Jerry Chuck enough about her. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I propose that we have a nice, pleasant conversation about

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Speaker 1: robber barons. Yeah, this is an interesting topic because depending

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Speaker 1: on who you ask, the robber barons were either the

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Speaker 1: greatest thing to ever happen to this country, right, or

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Speaker 1: one of the worst things to ever happen to this country. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And at first, from what I could tell, historians, like

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Speaker 1: immediately after in the like a few decades after UM,

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Speaker 1: the Gilded Age, which we'll talk about where the you know,

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Speaker 1: the age the robber barons worked and operated and lived

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Speaker 1: in UM really took it to be like their their presence,

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Speaker 1: their existence was one of the worst things ever. But

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Speaker 1: over time there's kind of been a reformation of them,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of like a revisiting of them that

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Speaker 1: has tried to to to revive their images or actually

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Speaker 1: make their images possibly better than it ever has been. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it kind of I think a lot that

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Speaker 1: this has to probably depends on what you feel about,

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Speaker 1: you know, capitalism to this extent where kind of doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter how you make your money, if it's sort of

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Speaker 1: underhanded and you sort of undercut competitors and monopolize things,

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Speaker 1: that's all just free trade man, free capitalism, and that's

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Speaker 1: how it works out. And then those guys ton of

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Speaker 1: gave a ton of money to society before they died,

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Speaker 1: and so they that's that's all. Uh, that in justifies

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Speaker 1: the means. Yeah, I actually that Yeah, that's the conservative

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Speaker 1: way to look at it. UM. And I ran across

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Speaker 1: something camera was called, but it's basically, oh, human imperfection.

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Speaker 1: Did you know that the idea that humans are imperfect

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Speaker 1: and there's really no reason to try to make a

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Speaker 1: perfect society because it will always be imperfect and in

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Speaker 1: ruin um that that is a corner stone, a hallmark

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Speaker 1: of conservativism. Did you know that? Uh? I didn't, But

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Speaker 1: I mean, of course you can't make a perfect society.

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Speaker 1: That makes sense. Well there, what so conservatives are saying

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Speaker 1: that in opposition to all of the liberal um efforts

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Speaker 1: to make a perfect society, to have government regulation that

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Speaker 1: says no, no, we should all have clean water and

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Speaker 1: we should do it at the expense of making corporations

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Speaker 1: clean up the waste water before they they release their

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Speaker 1: waste into the the shared common water resources. Things like that, right,

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Speaker 1: And that there's this idea that you can you can

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Speaker 1: mold society into some perfect form, that that's the opposite

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Speaker 1: of human imperfection, that that's like what liberals think, and

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Speaker 1: that that is that right there is one of the

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Speaker 1: main dividing lines between conservative and liberal. I've been on

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Speaker 1: the planet for almost forty four years now, and I

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Speaker 1: had no idea that it was just that simple, and

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Speaker 1: it really kind of this. I think the word perfect

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Speaker 1: is what's a stumbling block for me because I don't

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Speaker 1: know a single liberal thinks that they can make things perfect.

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Speaker 1: I think the goal is to make things better. Yeah, yeah, agreed.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that it's it's a great word either,

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Speaker 1: but I think that that's you know, I mean, hey,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna argue with the Stanford Encyclopedia philosophy, I'm not.

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Speaker 1: I'll bring it on, man, I'll punch that thing right

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Speaker 1: in the face. Speaking of Stanford, did you know that

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Speaker 1: Stanford University was named Yeah, a robber Baron named Leland Stanford. Actually, yeah,

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Speaker 1: a lot of universities are named after robber Baron's. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of problems with some of the early

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Speaker 1: histories of of universities, as we'll find out in the

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Speaker 1: coming weeks. So we should get into the gilded Age.

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Speaker 1: We should hop in the old way back machine, because

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Speaker 1: that's the age that we're talking about. And when you

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Speaker 1: hear guilded age, it might sound really great because I mean,

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Speaker 1: what's better than a gilded I don't know, toilet gilded lily.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that another one? That another thing people guild. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. That's a pretty good band name though, Gilded Lily, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like a nineties power pop. Oh, totally, you nailed it.

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Speaker 1: Not said what about breakfast, said Tiffany's. But the Gilded

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Speaker 1: Age is. And Dave Russe helped us put this together,

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Speaker 1: and he points out it's not a term of endearment.

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Speaker 1: When something is gilded, that means it's it's got a

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Speaker 1: thin coating of gold, but underneath it's you know, it

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Speaker 1: could be a gilded tird. Sure, I hate that word

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Speaker 1: so much. I love it. It's so great. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean I hate I love it and how awful it is,

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Speaker 1: Oh gotcha, But I think it's so awful it like

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Speaker 1: comes out on the other side is just plain old

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Speaker 1: awful to me. So um, yeah, that's the that's the

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Speaker 1: idea of the guilded Age, that it looked great on

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Speaker 1: the outside, but on the inside it wasn't so great,

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Speaker 1: and when it was so This was the second half

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Speaker 1: of the nineteenth century, basically from pretty much the end

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Speaker 1: of the Civil War up until the first decade of

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Speaker 1: the twentieth century, and it was characterized by a huge,

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Speaker 1: massive shift in the American economy where I saw somewhere

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Speaker 1: that at some point in the eighteen sixties to some

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Speaker 1: point in the early eighteen eighties and about fifteen years,

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Speaker 1: the American economy doubled doubled in size in fifteen years.

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Speaker 1: That's how massive it was, and that's how fast it happened.

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Speaker 1: And what it was was a transition from an agrarian

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Speaker 1: society to an industrial society. And it happened virtually overnight

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Speaker 1: as far as history goes. Yeah, and it was because

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Speaker 1: it happened so quickly and because it was such growth,

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Speaker 1: I think the government was like, we're going to stay

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Speaker 1: out of this and kind of just let you your

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Speaker 1: dudes do what you're gonna do. No regulation. Uh, you

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Speaker 1: can be as competitive as you want to be, and

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Speaker 1: you can satisfy scratch every capitalist it you want, and

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Speaker 1: we're just gonna let that happen because we're also kind

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Speaker 1: of getting rich on the side. Right, So that kind

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Speaker 1: of raises something that I saw is that the idea

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Speaker 1: that that it's kind of like a myth of the

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Speaker 1: las a fair government. During this era, they were definitely

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Speaker 1: las fair when it comes to regulation and letting corporatists

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Speaker 1: run rough shot over labor. But they were anything butt

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Speaker 1: hands off when it came to corporate welfare and political

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Speaker 1: entrepreneurship and helping out the wealthy class at the expense

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Speaker 1: of the people in general. So in one hand, on

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Speaker 1: one hand, they were las fair, on the other they

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Speaker 1: were not. Yeah, and what we're talking about here is

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Speaker 1: uh stuff like um snatching up resources where you could

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Speaker 1: hoarding them for yourself under like building such a massive

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Speaker 1: business that you could drive out every other smaller business, Uh,

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Speaker 1: drive them right out of business by undercutting prices. Uh,

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Speaker 1: jobs were more scarce, so you could have people work

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Speaker 1: harder for less and less wages. That kind of thing,

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Speaker 1: right exactly. And what's crazy, Like it was a dog

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Speaker 1: eat dog economy. Um, it was just nuts how it happened.

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Speaker 1: And there was a lot of like learning on the fly,

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Speaker 1: and the learning curve was extremely steep because I mean

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Speaker 1: this was just basically a country of farmers who had

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Speaker 1: been you know, looked down upon by Europe for a

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Speaker 1: century or more, and they all of a sudden were

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Speaker 1: captains of industry, and the most ruthless among them were

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Speaker 1: the ones that rose to the top. Because, like you're saying,

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Speaker 1: there was no rules, there was no regulation, there weren't

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Speaker 1: any standards of business. They were all figuring it out

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Speaker 1: as they were going along, and they went immediately to

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Speaker 1: the worst impulses that capitalism can can raise in a

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Speaker 1: person when you're in pursuit of as much possible wealth

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Speaker 1: as you can get, and there's plenty of it to

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Speaker 1: be had. And then, like you're saying, not only did

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Speaker 1: the federal government not get involved, they weren't equipped to

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Speaker 1: get involved because at that point, most of the government

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Speaker 1: was focused on local stuff. And now all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: as as the United States is truly becoming a continent

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Speaker 1: wide nation, um, the federal government is kind of lagging

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Speaker 1: behind to catch up. It wouldn't really begin to catch

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Speaker 1: up in the progressive era. And some would say that

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Speaker 1: the pendulum swung the exact opposite way to the exact

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Speaker 1: opposite extreme direction that it had during the guilded Age. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, let's let's talk about the guilded Age and

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Speaker 1: the I guess just you owe it all the trains

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Speaker 1: really and trains you owe to steal, so you gotta

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Speaker 1: go back a little bit. Uh. Steel was a very

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Speaker 1: big deal, uh in that when they found out Mr

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Speaker 1: Henry Bessemer in the eighteen fifties found out how to

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Speaker 1: make steal like a lot cheaper. He got a new

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Speaker 1: process going where it was just like a making vast

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Speaker 1: amounts of steel for a fraction at the cost and speed,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, you could open up those

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Speaker 1: local rail lines to stretch across the country and all

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Speaker 1: these regional, um specialty businesses and industries, whether it was uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, Cincinnati was known for furniture, and obviously in

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Speaker 1: places like Wyoming you had coal, and you had copper

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Speaker 1: and Montana and you had a lot of timber and Oregon.

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Speaker 1: You could get that stuff anywhere you wanted to go,

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Speaker 1: and that changed everything. Yeah, not only could you get

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Speaker 1: it to where you wanted to go, you could do

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Speaker 1: it exponentially cheaper than it used to be overland or

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Speaker 1: stay using canals, and then also way faster too. So

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Speaker 1: now if you were making like really great arm chairs

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Speaker 1: and Cincinnati, like you were saying, like, not only did

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Speaker 1: you have the town that they're just known for it,

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Speaker 1: that's their mascot, I believe of the baseball team sitters right, Um,

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Speaker 1: not only did you have the town of Cincinnati and

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Speaker 1: maybe some other regional parts of Ohio as your market

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Speaker 1: you know, hawd the entire country to supply with chairs,

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Speaker 1: and that that happened at a really great time, the

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Speaker 1: steel coming along and building the railroads, because the United

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Speaker 1: States economic engine was kind of idoling a really high

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Speaker 1: rpm for a little while before this. Apparently the War

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Speaker 1: of eighteen twelve caused the United States to kind of

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Speaker 1: stop relying on Europe and turn inward and become much

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Speaker 1: more self reliant than it had been before. So it

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Speaker 1: started to exploit more industry and resources rather than rely

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Speaker 1: on imports from Europe. That was a big one. And then, um,

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Speaker 1: the Civil War had brought a lot of factories online

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Speaker 1: in the North that hadn't been there before, and so

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Speaker 1: when the Civil War ended, these factories were all ready

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Speaker 1: to go. And with the abundance of plentiful steel, that

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Speaker 1: that that that engine got put into gear and it

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Speaker 1: just kind of took off like a rocket. Yeah. When

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Speaker 1: I was reading this and I tried to find out,

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Speaker 1: but I couldn't really get a firm hold. I wondered

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Speaker 1: if back then, when this started to happen, you know

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Speaker 1: how people rail against global trade and the globalization. I

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Speaker 1: wonder if people railed against nationalization of commerce back then

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Speaker 1: or if they all just thought it was all great. No. No.

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Speaker 1: But one of the things I read about that's actually

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Speaker 1: a mark in favor of the Gilded Age being uh,

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Speaker 1: actually a good thing for America is that people everyday

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Speaker 1: people were super involved in politics and the political process

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Speaker 1: and agitating for what they wanted. And so if there

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Speaker 1: were people who were definitely in favor of this kind

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Speaker 1: of just taking off like a rocket, knitting the country together,

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, nationalization, then there was definitely opposition

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Speaker 1: parties to that too who saw the problems with it.

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Speaker 1: But the cool thing is is that everybody was involved

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Speaker 1: in Everybody was like like like they cared about the

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Speaker 1: direction the country was going, rather than just sitting back

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Speaker 1: and being like, well, nothing we can do about it.

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Speaker 1: I wonder though, if it was like if there were business,

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Speaker 1: like if they were furniture makers in Cincinnati going, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to sell my chairs out there. That is

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Speaker 1: not what they said like in Cincinnati. Is that not

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Speaker 1: the Cincinnati accident? No, Okay, I might be thinking of Maine, right,

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Speaker 1: But I wonder if I wonder who was opposing it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. I haven't seen that one.

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Speaker 1: Some of the things that I saw where one of

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Speaker 1: the big fights was over currency and whether it should

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Speaker 1: remain on the gold standard or whether it should be

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Speaker 1: easy money, which, of course the so the farmers wanted.

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Speaker 1: I think they wanted easy money. I can't remember who

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Speaker 1: wanted to stay on the gold standard and others wanted,

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Speaker 1: you know, um basically, to to leave the gold standard

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Speaker 1: and make money a lot more um easy to come by.

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Speaker 1: The runny Dangerfield movie. That was an easy easy money. Man.

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Speaker 1: That's a tawdry movie, wasn't it. Yeah, that's good though. Yeah, hey,

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Speaker 1: even the worst danger Field movie still pretty great. And

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Speaker 1: on that point real quick, I'm sorry, Um. I know

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Speaker 1: we don't like to go off on tangents very often. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I have been watching Happy Days, I mean surely lately. Man.

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Speaker 1: That is some comfort food, isn't it, Dude? They are?

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Speaker 1: But not only that, it's not like junk food though.

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Speaker 1: They're like well written, well acted, well directed TV shows.

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Speaker 1: Like really, it's not at all like throwaway or disposable.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't rely on slick special effects or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: It's just good stuff. Man. Yeah, I agree, And you

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Speaker 1: know what, since we're on this tangent, we should tell

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Speaker 1: everyone that we're writing a book and it's coming out

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Speaker 1: this fall. Yeah, it's called Stuff you Should Know, an

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Speaker 1: incomplete compendium of mostly interesting things. And you can preorder

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Speaker 1: it now if you want a special system poster. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you preorder it and you can go and upload your

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Speaker 1: receipt at stuff you Should Read books dot com and

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Speaker 1: then there's like a little thing that says like your

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Speaker 1: pre order gift, and you upload a picture of your

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Speaker 1: seat and they mail it to you and you will

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Speaker 1: be very happy with it because it's pretty awesome. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we want to sell We do want to sell

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Speaker 1: these books out there. We want to sell these books

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Speaker 1: all over the world. Yes, we're glad that the railroad

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Speaker 1: exists so we can move these books around easily. Oh man,

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Speaker 1: you make kidding. Ship these things to Cincinnata, right, So

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Speaker 1: where were we So we were shipping things regional businesses.

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Speaker 1: We're becoming national businesses. People were leaving the farms, they

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Speaker 1: were leaving small towns. They were going to the big city.

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Speaker 1: Immigrants were pouring in from Europe. African Americans were going

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Speaker 1: north because reconstruction didn't work out so well, because it

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Speaker 1: was not abandoned. Yeah, yeah, have we done one on reconstruction. No, no,

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Speaker 1: we really need to though totally. I mean the more

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Speaker 1: I've been I've been reading a lot about that that

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Speaker 1: period in history, and yes, we need to definitely do

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Speaker 1: one on that. But the point is there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of people flocking to work this uh, what was

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Speaker 1: called the Second Industrial Revolution where we saw a a

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Speaker 1: period of about forty years, factory output went from one

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Speaker 1: point nine billion to thirteen billion dollars, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: like this happened like almost overnight. It's it's astounding how

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Speaker 1: fast this happened. Um, I don't think it even happened

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Speaker 1: this fast in the First Industrial Revolution, you know, the

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Speaker 1: one that that um started over in Manchester. Like I

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Speaker 1: think that it's this is nothing like this has ever

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Speaker 1: happened in the history of the world. As far as

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Speaker 1: I know, I believe it. So um oh sure, I

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Speaker 1: was just getting wrapped up my own economic engines idling

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Speaker 1: high right now, Well, take your foot off the gas

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Speaker 1: and let's take a little break and we'll talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about Mark Twain and uh what these a

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Speaker 1: few economic stats of the day right after this. Yeah, alright,

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Speaker 1: we're back, Charles. I'm feeling much better now that my

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Speaker 1: foots off. The guess that was this good advice. Well,

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Speaker 1: we we mentioned Mark Twain, And the only reason we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about Mark Twain for a moment is

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Speaker 1: because in eighteen seventy three he co wrote a novel.

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Speaker 1: It's a satire called The Gilded Age Colon, a Tale

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Speaker 1: of Today, where it followed a poor country farmer who

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Speaker 1: is sort of I mean, does he move to the

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Speaker 1: city trying to get in on the Second Industrial Revolution? Yeah, totally.

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Speaker 1: It's it's exactly that kind of migration that you're talking

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Speaker 1: about just a few minutes ago. And it didn't work

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Speaker 1: out so well, right, I don't know, I've never read

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Speaker 1: the book, but from from what I can tell, um, no,

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Speaker 1: it didn't work out very well because he is taking

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Speaker 1: advantage of by all manner of bad people like crooked

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Speaker 1: politicians and crooked businessmen, um. And it is basically run

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Speaker 1: through the ringer from what I can tell. But for

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Speaker 1: I've also seen that that wasn't it wasn't exactly the

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Speaker 1: best piece of writing Mark Twain's ever come up with.

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Speaker 1: But the thing is that he releases in eighteen seventy three,

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Speaker 1: and this is like at the very beginning of the

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Speaker 1: Gilded Age. So he saw it pretty quickly what was

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Speaker 1: going on. And what he saw was this emergence from

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Speaker 1: a relatively egalitarian society of a group of ultra mind

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Speaker 1: bogglingly wealthy people that just rose up from the United

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Speaker 1: States and through you know, cheating and business acumen and

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Speaker 1: taking advantage of people and overworking people and underpaying people,

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Speaker 1: but also like having a lot of vision and foresight,

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Speaker 1: all the these things coming together grab control of almost

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Speaker 1: all of the wealth that was being produced by the

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Speaker 1: average American, and all of the average Americans put together,

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Speaker 1: who had moved to these cities for the promise of

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Speaker 1: better wages, better living than the farm could offer. Some

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Speaker 1: people were exploiting that more than other people, and those

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Speaker 1: people came to be known as the robber barons, and

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Speaker 1: they were the lynch pin of why people think of

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Speaker 1: the Gilded Age as a rotten part of American history. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: here's some stats for you. In eighteen ninety, the top

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Speaker 1: one and this they should all sound very familiar if

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Speaker 1: you're alive and breathing oxygen today, But in eighteen ninety,

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Speaker 1: the top one percent of the US owned fifty one

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Speaker 1: percent of all wealth. Yeah, dude, more than half of

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Speaker 1: all wealth in that nuts. It is nuts, but you're right,

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Speaker 1: it does sound very familiar. The top twelve percent owned

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Speaker 1: eighty six percent of all wealth, and the lower fort

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Speaker 1: of the US population, which was about half the population,

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Speaker 1: owned one cent. Uh. And here's that's even more nuts. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean all these just top one another. I think

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Speaker 1: here's the last one. Uh in even the richest four

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Speaker 1: thousand families. That sounds like a lot of people, but

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Speaker 1: that's less than one percent of the population. The richest

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Speaker 1: four thousand had as much wealth as the other eleven

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Speaker 1: point six million families combined. Yeah, how about that? So

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Speaker 1: that is what you call economic inequality, right, And I

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Speaker 1: think the thing is is especially over time. But I

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Speaker 1: get the impression during that age too, like the people

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Speaker 1: who resent that, liberals typically um tend to be painted

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Speaker 1: with this brush that says, you're just jealous. You've never

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Speaker 1: made that much money in your life, you probably never will,

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Speaker 1: and it sickens you to see somebody else with that

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Speaker 1: money because you don't have it. And it's that second part,

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Speaker 1: that last part about because you don't have it, that

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Speaker 1: I think misses the mark work, and that even at

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Speaker 1: the time, during the guilded guilded age today when people

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Speaker 1: look at it in quality, that kind of stuff, what

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Speaker 1: there what a lot of them. I'm sure there are

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Speaker 1: people out there who are just jealous and haters for

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Speaker 1: that reason, but a lot of them say no, no,

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Speaker 1: like that, that that level, that that amount of disparity

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Speaker 1: shouldn't exist. Where if if there are people who are

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Speaker 1: just genuinely suffering, who are just poor and aren't able

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Speaker 1: to make it with whatever living they're making, um, if

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Speaker 1: they exist, they shouldn't have people who have that much

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Speaker 1: amount of money. And that was a sentiment in the

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Speaker 1: guilding guilded age is much too. It wasn't like they

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Speaker 1: didn't realize this was going on at the time. Um,

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Speaker 1: the sentiment was very much like it is today, except

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Speaker 1: in the Gilded Age they did things like form labor

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Speaker 1: unions and strike and um, and just basically did something

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Speaker 1: about it. They didn't take it laying down, which is

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Speaker 1: actually criticism that's levied or has been levied in the

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Speaker 1: past against people today. Yeah, and I think there's also

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Speaker 1: a notion that the more left leaning people are anti success,

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Speaker 1: and that's that's not true either. It's um, well, that's

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Speaker 1: all I'm gonna say about that. That's just not true. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's just not true. They're they're not asids, they're not

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Speaker 1: anti success um. And and I don't think that every

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Speaker 1: conservative thinks like, yeah, man, that like it's all fair

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Speaker 1: and you should be able to do whatever you want

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Speaker 1: to get ahead and stomp on any one's head that

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Speaker 1: you want to get there. I think these are just

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Speaker 1: broad brush um things that keep the country divided. Yeah, absolutely,

401
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Speaker 1: I think that. Uh yeah, I think most both sides

402
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,199
Speaker 1: misunderstand each other. Conservatives and liberals misunderstand each other to

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Speaker 1: a debilitating degree these days. Agreed, So let's let's get

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Speaker 1: off that. Let's go back to the original the o

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Speaker 1: g robber barons who were not to these guys, I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about the term robber baron, which didn't happen in

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Speaker 1: the nineteenth century US for the first time. It happened

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Speaker 1: thousands of years ago in Europe. I don't know about

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Speaker 1: thousands of years, but pretty close to, pretty close to eight,

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Speaker 1: I'll give you that. So um, apparently along the Rhine River,

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Speaker 1: if you wanted to move goods up and down northern

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Speaker 1: Europe like that was your your way to go. But

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Speaker 1: unfortunately for you. There were places where the Rhine river

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Speaker 1: like really narrowed with high cliffs, and you were easy

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Speaker 1: prey for local nobility who wanted to like set up

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Speaker 1: toll booths basically and said, you need to give me

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Speaker 1: some money if you want to keep going, implying your

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Speaker 1: goods along the Rhine. Yeah, and you had You couldn't

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Speaker 1: just portage your steamship up a mountain and over a mountain.

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Speaker 1: You had to pay the piper. Plus they didn't exist

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Speaker 1: at the time. What steam much hips? And when did

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00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 1: those come around? Uh? They early nineteenth century. You have

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00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 1: a much better just general world timeline that lives in

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Speaker 1: your brain than I do. Well. I understand history perfectly

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Speaker 1: and without any um delusions or any of my opinions

426
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 1: informing my vision of history as well. I think that's

427
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 1: what you're known for sure. Uh wait wait were you joking?

428
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: Oh no, okay, I just always get the time periods confused,

429
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: So I rely on books and research like a big

430
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,239
Speaker 1: dumb dumb so so do I. Yeah, no, but then

431
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 1: you keep it in your brain. Mine just floats out

432
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: like like you ever cartoons with birds flying around people's

433
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: head when they get knocked out. Chuck, I've seen every

434
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: cartoon that ever existed, and I remember each of them

435
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: perfectly without any of my opinions coloring my view of them.

436
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: Those birds are always above my head. I don't have

437
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:59,360
Speaker 1: to get hit with an antiville or a piano. So

438
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: the Ryne Gorge was one of those really narrow straits,

439
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: and uh in twelve fifty Emperor Frederick the Third died.

440
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: There was no successor, and basically that meant no regulation.

441
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: And believe it or not, even way back then, a

442
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 1: lack of regulation meant that people would take advantage of that.

443
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 1: That's the same as it is today. It's almost like

444
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 1: people are imperfect, almost, And so these thieves would move

445
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 1: into that gorge, jam up those tolls, maybe just steal

446
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: stuff if they wanted to as well. And they were

447
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: named the robber barons. That's where that term came from.

448
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: Those people, yeah, because they actually were like low level

449
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: nobility and they already were well off, but that didn't

450
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 1: prevent them from, you know, trying to take advantage of

451
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: the merchant class who were just trying to make their

452
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: way and make a living. And that became like a

453
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: really great description for some of the the most successful

454
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: business tycoons of the nineteenth century. I think it first

455
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: popped up in an Atlantic article in eighteen seven d Yeah,

456
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 1: where it didn't directly say that, it didn't say that

457
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: these guys are the new robber barons, but it said

458
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: that the old robber barons of the Ryan Valley were

459
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: actually probably more honest than the new aristocracy of swindling millionaires.

460
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: So that's a big, big time burn. So even in

461
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: eight seventy people were saying, like, this is wrong, there's

462
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: something like really wrong here. I mean, this is within

463
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: just a few years of the Guild of Age really

464
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: starting to take off, and people had already identified that

465
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,120
Speaker 1: there were some major issues developing. Yeah, it's so weird

466
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 1: to look at this stuff and just how apt it

467
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: applies to what's going on today. And we think, I

468
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: think some people think that these are all new problems

469
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: and new issues, but it's as old as time, you know. Yeah,

470
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: it's so weird. It is a little weird to too.

471
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 1: It's it is weird. What's even weirder, though, is like

472
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: I believe if we if we look back, if we

473
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: zoom out far enough, we see humanity kind of ever

474
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: going upward, even though there's like peaks and valleys in

475
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 1: the line. The line overall is kind of up moves

476
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: upward towards something great, I think, but toward perfection. I

477
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: wasn't Maybe I wasn't. Uh, I wasn't alive ten thousand

478
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 1: years ago, So who knows. Maybe that was the pinnacle

479
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 1: of human existence. I don't know. Maybe. So should we

480
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: can say, should we talk about a few of these dudes? Yeah? So,

481
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: um we I feel like we have kind of set

482
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 1: this up that the robber barons were ruthless business tycoons,

483
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: and we're going to start with one of the first ones,

484
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: Commodore Cornelius Vanderbilt, who, for my money, was the o

485
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: G robber baron. Yeah, and Commodore is a nickname, um that,

486
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: and as you will see he later, Vanderbilt University is

487
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: named for him, and their mascot is the Commodore's because

488
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: of him, and a commodore as a naval officer sort

489
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: of above not quite an admiral, but above the captain

490
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: a fleet. Oh well, that's actually pretty appropriate because he

491
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: did command a fleet of ships, originally sailboats. Originally a

492
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: sailboat I think when he was fourteen and then um,

493
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: steamships to ferry people around um, New York, there were

494
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: by this time, and you know, you know what's ironic.

495
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: We were talking about steamships and when they were invented.

496
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: The guy who invented steam, Robert Fulton. Remember we did

497
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: a whole episode on steam technology. He had a thirty

498
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: year monopoly UH in New York to ferry people using steamships,

499
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: and ironically, Cornelius Vanderbilt had to overcome that monopoly UH

500
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: using ingenuity and his own resourcefulness and eventually was successful

501
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: in breaking that monopoly just through good business tactics that

502
00:29:55,160 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: actually resulted in far lower fares for everyday people and companies.

503
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: I think just at his first try, UM, by improving

504
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: the size of the steam engine and using cheaper anthracite coal,

505
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: he managed to drop the average ferry price from like

506
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: seven dollars to three dollars and his first try. That's amazing. Yeah,

507
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: So so I think that's really kind of like instructive though,

508
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: man Like think about it. You think of this guy's

509
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: like a ruthless robber baron, and in many many ways

510
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: he was, as we'll see, but he was able to

511
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: get to that position by by outwitting and outsmarting other

512
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: robber barons, and that was the climate at the time.

513
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: Like it's so easy to sit back from this time

514
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: and just be like just judge, judge, judge. And it's

515
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: actually kind of fun too, it's a great pastime. But

516
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: you also have to remember at the time, um, that

517
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: was that was the business climate. That's just what it was.

518
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: And if you weren't willing to do that, well, then

519
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: you were not going to make it in in business.

520
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: Which is fine, Like maybe you'd say this is too

521
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: cutthroat for me, I'm just gonna sell out to these guys, um,

522
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: and there's nothing wrong with that. But the ones who

523
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: were left standing are the ones that you know, history

524
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: still remembers, for better for worse. Yeah, and it's worth

525
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: pouring out, um. And as we'll do with I think

526
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: we're going over four of these guys. But some had

527
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: money born into it, some started out very poor. And um,

528
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: Cornelius Vanderbilt, even though that sounds like such a rich,

529
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: hoity toity name, now, uh, he was born very poor.

530
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: He was born in sevent uh in a farming family

531
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: on uh Staaten Island and quit school when he was eleven.

532
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: And that's when he started working on the boat docks,

533
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: and he he was literally a self made man, starting

534
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: with that first little ferry boat that you mentioned at

535
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: age fourteen. Um. He was a big dude, and he

536
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: was very savvy but also very ruthless. He and this

537
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: is something that you'll see with a lot of these men,

538
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: was a competition and a competitive edge and nature. That

539
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: was sort of the underlying thing with all of them.

540
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: I think that I watched There Will Be Blood recently

541
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: for movie Crush and Daniel Plainview was very much based

542
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: on some of these robber barons and that he has

543
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: that great, great classic line from that movie when he goes,

544
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: I have a competition in me. I want no one

545
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: else to succeed, and that just crystallizes that character. And

546
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: I think a lot of these guys it wasn't enough

547
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: to just get rich. They wanted to devastate the competition, right.

548
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: So it makes you wonder, like, is that just a

549
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: normal There's just at any given time there's a you know,

550
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: a handful or a multiplicity of people who are like that.

551
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 1: It's just that these guys happened to be living in

552
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: a time where they had the freedom and ability to

553
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: exercise that to their to their greatest ability. Or was

554
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: it that these guys shaped the business world because they

555
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: all happened to be alive at the same time. I

556
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: don't know. It's it's interesting though that it's that competition,

557
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: and again with the plane view, not just a competition

558
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: to succeed, but accompassing competition to see that others don't. Right. So, um,

559
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: did you talk about the railroad yet? I didn't catch it. No.

560
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: So you know he started off in the steam uh, steamboats.

561
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: But if you know Vanderbilt, you know he was a

562
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: railroad guy. And if you look at the list of

563
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: robber barons, uh, I'd say easily like a third of

564
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,959
Speaker 1: them were railroad men. Yeah. Because there was so much

565
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: money to be made from the railroads. It was just

566
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: like printing your own money. And one of the reasons

567
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: why was because there's so much stuff being shipped over

568
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: the railroads that if you own the railroad, you gotta

569
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: cut of every single industry because every single industry basically

570
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,959
Speaker 1: had to use your form of transportation. That's why they

571
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: all got into it. Plus it was wide open, like

572
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: there was so much open space and so much room

573
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,879
Speaker 1: for expansion that it was a it was a good

574
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 1: time to get rich off of the railroad for sure.

575
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,919
Speaker 1: So his first railroad ride was at thirty nine years old.

576
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: He wasn't like in his twenties and early thirties getting

577
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: into the railroad business. He wasn't even on a train

578
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: until it was almost forty and that train crashed. Uh

579
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: an axle broke and went down an embankment and he

580
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: punctured along broke some bones, and I guess was lying

581
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 1: there wheezing out of a hole in his long saying,

582
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 1: this is the future. That was so great, and he

583
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: got into railroads. It's it's crazy, like a year later, Yeah,

584
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 1: he did. And one of the things that he had

585
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 1: a really great talent for was identifying like loser railroad

586
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: seemingly loser railroads and figuring out ways that they actually

587
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: had been overlooked in. A really good example of that

588
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: is the Harlem Railroad, which was just a short little

589
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: line other railroads, larger railroads used to connect to New

590
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: York City, but Vanderbilt recognized that it was the only

591
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: line that went all the way into the heart of Manhattan,

592
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: and so he bought that up. And he also at

593
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: the same time not only got control of that little railroad.

594
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,720
Speaker 1: This is a really early chance for him to show

595
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 1: how good he was at driving up stock prices. So

596
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: when he came along and bought the Harlem Railroad, or

597
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 1: started buying shares of the Harlem Railroad, that was worth

598
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,280
Speaker 1: in today's money, a hundred and sixty eight dollars of share,

599
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: not too shabby, but from what I could tell at

600
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:37,280
Speaker 1: the time, not very great at all. By the time

601
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 1: he was done cornering this stock um, he had driven

602
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: the shares up to fifty hundred and ninety eight dollars

603
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: in just a few years. And so in doing so,

604
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: not only did he make a ton of money for himself,

605
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 1: he also developed this reputation that made owners of other

606
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: railroads say, I own a bunch of shares in my railroad.

607
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 1: You want to come buy mine and drive my stock

608
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,280
Speaker 1: price and then buy me out. And so he didn't.

609
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: He didn't even have to plunder other companies. They came

610
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: to him and just said, here, buddy, Bias please. They

611
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: were Blue Star Airlines. What is that? Remember that from

612
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: from there will be blood. There were no airlines and

613
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: there will be blood. Remember Wall Street That was the

614
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: one that Martin Sheen worked for. Yeah, that Geko came

615
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,240
Speaker 1: in and bought out and uh, I think he shuddered

616
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: them though. That was the difference. Yeah, yeah, he was

617
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: a corporator, he he Uh. And actually that era, the

618
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: eighties junk bondera, is frequently cited, or it was at

619
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 1: the time as the Second guild at age. This is

620
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 1: not the first time. We're living in what's known as

621
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 1: the Second guilded age. So to put a bow on Vanderbilt,

622
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: he uh consolidated, like you said, all these railways between

623
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: New York and Chicago. He manipulated stock, he fixed prices.

624
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: He the guy, like he said, earlier government wasn't looking

625
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: so you can kind of do what you wanted. And

626
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: he became a very very very wealthy man, and like

627
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: a lot of these guys, late in his life, turned

628
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: into a philanthropist. UM built Grand Central Station. It was

629
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: called the Grand Central Depot at the time, UM which

630
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: during the recession provided tons and tons of jobs for people. Uh.

631
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,240
Speaker 1: And then the Central University of Nashville was eventually renamed

632
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: Vanderbilt University because all he did was give him a

633
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: million bucks. Isn't it crazy significant? Like I feel like

634
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: we could get stuff. You should know listeners to pitch

635
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: in and get a university named after us. Let's try that.

636
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: Actually like stuff you should know you we could do. Uh,

637
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: we can morganize the struggling university. How about that? Hey,

638
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: one more thing about Vanderbilt. So he left about a

639
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: hundred million dollars to his mostly to his eldest son, William.

640
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: In six years, William doubled that, mostly by investing in railroads.

641
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: That's how much money you can make in railroads. And

642
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: William was also well known for throwing probably the most

643
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 1: lavage party in the history of New York City. Um,

644
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: they spent one point eight million dollars in today's dollars

645
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 1: on champagne alone. Yeah, that was when he finished his

646
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 1: mansion on Fifth av And Uh. I looked it up

647
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 1: because to see if any of these robber baron mansions

648
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: were still around today. But yeah, I don't, Yeah, I

649
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: don't think it. I mean, I know this one was

650
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 1: demolished in ninety. So if you want to get a

651
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 1: really good idea of just how rich these people were,

652
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: go to Newport, Rhode Island and visit Millionaires Row, because

653
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: there was a huge there's a huge overlooking this cliff.

654
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 1: There's a long row of the most astounding mansions you've

655
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: ever seen built during the guilded one of the better

656
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: walks you can take in life. It really had the

657
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,399
Speaker 1: ocean on one side and then these mansions on the other.

658
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: It's really cool and each mansion, each mansion is so

659
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 1: different from the others. It just touring them is amazing.

660
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 1: You could just be utterly disgusted by the concept of

661
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 1: billionaires or robber barons or whatever, and you can still

662
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,320
Speaker 1: enjoy taking this tour of these mansions. They're just works

663
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: of art, you know. It's really it's really worth a visit.

664
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: Plus Newports just one of the more charming towns in

665
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: the kind I love Newport. Or you could take a

666
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: hate walk and uh, just look at those mansions and

667
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,240
Speaker 1: think about what what wrecking ball would look like, shake

668
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: your fists at the dumb waiters and all that. But

669
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 1: then you turn around, look at the ocean and think, okay,

670
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 1: all right, it's really cool. It's like, it's a definitely

671
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 1: cool to visit them, for sure. And by the way,

672
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: a little piece of trivia if you go, if you

673
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,720
Speaker 1: enter Central Park at the hundred and fifth Street entrance,

674
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: that big beautiful iron gate was from that mansion, the

675
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: Vanderbilt Mansion. They donated a lot of the stuff before

676
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: they demolished it, is that right? Yeah? So I mentioned

677
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: organization and that's actually named after the next robber Baron

678
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about. Okay, do we break beforehand?

679
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: And I think we'd break after p how about that?

680
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,879
Speaker 1: Are you okay with that? Okay? So so then we're

681
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: gonna hang in there. Everybody doneat don't fast forward yet,

682
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: We're going to stick around and talk about JP Morgan

683
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: right now. Yeah. He was born with money. He did

684
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: not come from meager means and work him stuff up

685
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: by his bootstraps. He was the son of a very

686
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: successful banker and merchant and used those connections to get

687
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: a plumb job at Wall Street when he was twenty

688
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 1: years old, and then when he was in his thirties,

689
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: he partnered partner with a guy named Anthony Drexel who

690
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 1: was a banker, uh and from Philly and created Drexel

691
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:39,280
Speaker 1: Morgan and Company. And it became one of the biggest

692
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: investment banks at the time in the world. Yeah. Um,

693
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 1: And this was when he was in his early thirties,

694
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: like you said, right, so um. JP Morgan was known

695
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: as the guy who financed all the other robber barons um,

696
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 1: and he had his fingers in basically every pot that

697
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: was going on. He also knew that like, you could

698
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: make money off of the railroads because you're taking a

699
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,399
Speaker 1: cut of all the other industries, so he definitely got

700
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: involved in them. But his whole thing was um what's

701
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 1: called horizontal integration, where you you you basically come along

702
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: you say this industry should be doing way better than

703
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: it is. I think there's too many competitors and they're

704
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,760
Speaker 1: all holding one another down. I'm gonna slowly start buying

705
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 1: them up. And here's the thing. This is how you

706
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,760
Speaker 1: get control of a full industry during the Gilded Age.

707
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 1: You go to a couple, you start buying them up,

708
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: and then you put all those together and you you

709
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,439
Speaker 1: form a bigger company that's way leaner, has much better

710
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: economies of scale, and you can compete better against all

711
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 1: the other guys. So you start buying some of the

712
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: other guys up because they're facing going out of business now.

713
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: And then you've got left the real holdouts, the ones

714
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 1: that are never going to sell to you because they

715
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 1: hate your stupid face and they'll never give a penny

716
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 1: to you make sure that you'll never set foot in

717
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: their offices ever again. And what you do then is

718
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: you start selling for us than costs. Yeah, you're a

719
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 1: big company, so you can totally stand that for a

720
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: much longer time than these holdout competitors, and they face

721
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 1: either financial ruin or you eventually put them out of business,

722
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: and either way, you no longer have that competition. You

723
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: literally control an entire industry consolidated into one beefy mega company,

724
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you have what's called Morganization,

725
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: which was I don't know if that was pioneered by

726
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: JP Morgan, but he definitely perfected it enough that they

727
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 1: named the process after him. Yeah, and that's a good

728
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: example of what I was talking about earlier, is it's

729
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,839
Speaker 1: not enough to succeed and be successful, but to make

730
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,399
Speaker 1: sure no one else can be. So like it would

731
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: be the kind of thing and that one company you

732
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 1: were talking about that maybe kind of pretty small even,

733
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: but they might might hold have an iron grip on

734
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: one very tiny region of the United States, and you

735
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: could just let them have their business, or you could

736
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: do what you're talking about and make sure that you

737
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: uh squash them by any means necessary and forced them

738
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 1: to sell. And that's I think that's where capitalism for

739
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,879
Speaker 1: a lot of people has gotten its bad name. Is like, yeah,

740
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:15,760
Speaker 1: work hard, succeed do well, but not at the expense

741
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: of every other person trying to do well, right, because

742
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 1: it interferes with something this country is based on, which

743
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: is called the quality of opportunity, which is the idea

744
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: that at least under the eyes of the law, every

745
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,879
Speaker 1: single person in America has an equal shot at making it,

746
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 1: at making something of themselves, of having like a good life.

747
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: And when somebody is cheating or engaging in monopolies or

748
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,359
Speaker 1: using underhanded tactics to to run out the competition so

749
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 1: that there is no competition any longer, that that is problematic.

750
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: That that flies in the face of the idea of

751
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,840
Speaker 1: equality of opportunity. That's right. And if you listen to

752
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: our Monopoly game episode UH, you might remember that JP

753
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 1: Morgan was the basis of uh monopoly Man. Yeah. We

754
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: talked about that good. Okay, that makes me feel good. Yeah.

755
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: He was modeled after old JP Morgan himself. Uh. And

756
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: he was actually one of the first people to be

757
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:18,240
Speaker 1: targeted um for antitrust in nineteen o four, Teddy Roosevelt

758
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 1: came after him under the Sherman Antitrust Act and said, hey,

759
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: this Northern Securities Corporation, uh is really monopoly? And Supreme

760
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: Court said, yeah, it is busted up. Yeah. And so

761
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: today when we think of trusts, we think of like,

762
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:37,839
Speaker 1: you know, a legal entity that that can hold um assets.

763
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: At the time, the word trust meant basically an industry

764
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: that had been morganized, where all of the competitors have

765
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: been folded into one large company and the market was

766
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: cornered by this one mega company, General Electric, UM U S. Steel,

767
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 1: Both of those were morganized companies. And apparently U S.

768
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:00,479
Speaker 1: Steel was the first one billion dollar company that ever

769
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 1: existed because of that that level of consolidation. But then, yeah,

770
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: when the Sherman Anti Trust Act was passed in nine,

771
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: that was a clear sign that that this was not

772
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: going to stand much longer. And and I think Roosevelt,

773
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 1: it was Roosevelt, you said, right, who busted that up.

774
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: And he ran on that and actually went against He

775
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 1: was a Republican, I believe, and he went against the

776
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: advice of the you know, the elder statesman in the

777
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: Republican Party established himself as a genuine UM President of

778
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: the people and helped set himself up for reelection just

779
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: from that one anti trust act. So that's j P.

780
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 1: Now do we take a break. Oh one more thing, Chuck,

781
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 1: I'm not toying with you, I swear so. One one

782
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 1: of the ways that Morgan one of the reasons he's

783
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 1: reviled still. And he did some philanthropy, probably more than

784
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: he gets credit for, for sure, but UM. One of

785
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: the reasons he's revival is because one of the ways

786
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: he made it so that he could compete with other

787
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 1: companies was UM and sell for lower than than cost

788
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:10,879
Speaker 1: was by slashing wages, slashing the workforce and increasing productivity

789
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: of the existing workers, and then just making sure that

790
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: working conditions. He didn't spend a cent on improving working

791
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: conditions to make them safe, and that that is really

792
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: not why not because he amassed a fortune. Some people

793
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: criticize him for that, but it's tactics like that, like

794
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: like becoming a billionaire basically UM on the backs of

795
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 1: people who he wouldn't have spent a cent to make

796
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 1: sure could stay alive working in his factories. That is

797
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 1: the quintessential problem people have always had with robber barons.

798
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,479
Speaker 1: Is that kind of mentality? That's right now, I'm done.

799
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: All right, we'll come back right after this and finish

800
00:46:50,160 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: up with two more robber barons. Hello, everybody, we're back

801
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: to talk about Andrew Carnegie. You've ever been to Carnegie

802
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: Hall or Carnegie Mellon University. I've been to both. You've

803
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 1: been to one of the university with you. That's right.

804
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 1: We did a little job there one time. That was fun.

805
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 1: I've been to Carnegie Hall. I would I ushered a

806
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 1: show there. I didn't usher. I passed out the playbills,

807
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:43,959
Speaker 1: which meant I got to see the show for free.

808
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 1: And I saw it. Oh man, it was one of

809
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: those special nights. I got to see Beethoven's Night with

810
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: the full orchestra and German choir at Carnegie Hall. It

811
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: was amazing. Wow. Something else that's pretty neat And all

812
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 1: I needed was a boat? Is that the one that's um?

813
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,840
Speaker 1: Maybe I named it wrong. It's the dune dune dune, dune,

814
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: dune dun dun un. Oh, the die Hard song. Yeah,

815
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 1: the die Hard song. I got you and saw die

816
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:23,839
Speaker 1: Hard in concert. It was great. Hious. So Carnegie, Uh,

817
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: we're talking about Andrew Carnegie who was born in Scotland

818
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 1: and they came to Pittsburgh. He was very poor. He's

819
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,280
Speaker 1: about thirteen years old and he worked in a cotton

820
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: factory and he and this will come into play later,

821
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 1: he kind of self taught himself from books that he

822
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:47,879
Speaker 1: borrowed from a wealthy benefactor from his private library, which

823
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:50,799
Speaker 1: is will come to play later. His favorite one was

824
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: Flowers in the Attic. Wow, I would have thought great expectations,

825
00:48:54,640 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 1: but that's okay, no, So he Um, he, like Vanderbilt,

826
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 1: is a definitely a self made man for sure. And

827
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,320
Speaker 1: I guess he kind of was. He had his fingers

828
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:07,839
Speaker 1: in a lot of different pots, kind of like JP

829
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 1: Morgan at first. And then he turned his attention to

830
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: steel because again remember steel is like the basically the

831
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 1: the foundation for this American economy just blowing up. Sure,

832
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:24,319
Speaker 1: so he he his name became synonymous with steel, and

833
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: I guess at first, up until about eight two, he

834
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: had a reputation as being a friend of the worker,

835
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 1: and that the workers at Carnegie Steele in Homestead, just

836
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: across the river from Pittsburgh. Um, they they felt like,

837
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 1: you know, Carnegie would take care of them. Um, and

838
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: They found out the hard way that that was not

839
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: the case when they went on strike in two during

840
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: what came to be known as the Homestead Strike, which

841
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 1: would result in the death of ten people, which is

842
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,280
Speaker 1: not how they planned things to go. Uh. And apparently

843
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 1: the reason why that happened is because the Pinkerton's were

844
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: called in as strike breakers. Yeah. I might want to

845
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 1: eventually do an episode on this, but um that that's

846
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 1: sort of the overview. You bring in the Pinkerton's and

847
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: then they battle with the like literally with guns. Pinkerton's died.

848
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 1: I think like eight or nine of the ten or

849
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: twelve people that died rode the Pinkerton's. No, No, I

850
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 1: think it was just one I think were the strikers. Yeah, okay,

851
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:27,720
Speaker 1: well we should definitely do a full episode then, because

852
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,880
Speaker 1: for sure I want to get this right. But but

853
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 1: what I read was that the the strikers, Um, so,

854
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 1: the Pinkerton's showed up in barges and they were basically

855
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: hired on as a private army to protect scab workers

856
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 1: and and bust the strike up. Um. But they arrived

857
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 1: in barges and after the initial violence, the striking workers

858
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 1: and some of their families surrounded these barges and demanded

859
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 1: that the Pinkerton's come off the boats, and then the Pinkerton's.

860
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 1: So the Pinkerton's said, Okay, we'll come off if you

861
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 1: guarantee our safety. And they said fine, and the Pinkertons

862
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: came off and they got beaten by all of the strikers.

863
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 1: They just completely went back on their word and then

864
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,760
Speaker 1: set their barges on fire. I guess the Pinkerton's escaped

865
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 1: to the factory with their life, and um, the National

866
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:19,439
Speaker 1: Guard was called in to quell the violence. Yeah, well,

867
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 1: National Guard was called in not only to quell the violence,

868
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 1: but also called in to act in the interest of Carnegie.

869
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,760
Speaker 1: So he kind of commandeered at his own little personal

870
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: army to help take care of things right, starting with

871
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:33,360
Speaker 1: the Pinkerton's and then with the National Guard. And it's

872
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:36,360
Speaker 1: like this kind of collusion that is also another huge criticism.

873
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:38,879
Speaker 1: Like we were saying, the government is known for being

874
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: like las fair as far as the regulation is concerned,

875
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 1: but they'll totally send in the National Guard not just

876
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 1: to quell violence, but to make sure that the strike

877
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 1: breakers don't attack the scab labor to keep the factory going.

878
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 1: And that that that kind of like government capital collusion

879
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: at the expense of the workers. Is that is there's

880
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 1: a long standing edition of of that being almost universally

881
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 1: reviled in America over enough of an arc of time.

882
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: If that keeps up more and more just everyday, Americans

883
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 1: start to notice and start to resent it, and that

884
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 1: apparently is a really good force for social change, because

885
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:20,399
Speaker 1: Americans don't like that kind of thing after a long

886
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 1: enough period of time. Yeah, And I think Carnegie tried

887
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 1: to distance himself from that strike by saying that he

888
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 1: was sort of out of the loop. He was in

889
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 1: Scotland the whole time, but they have since found correspondence

890
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 1: that shows that he was very much involved in that.

891
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 1: And you know, there's some speculation that he may have

892
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 1: had some genuine moments of regret and guilt over that,

893
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:49,439
Speaker 1: because he was a big time philanthropist later in life.

894
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: I think he said in his book The Gospel of Wealth,

895
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: the man who dies thus rich dies disgraced. And uh,

896
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:00,759
Speaker 1: we mentioned the libraries coming back into play. He more

897
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 1: than libraries, and that's really one of his big legacies,

898
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 1: along with um the arts, the Carnegie Corporation, and the

899
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 1: Endowment for International Peace, Carnegie Mellon University, Carnegie Museum. But

900
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,799
Speaker 1: the libraries really have made a pretty big difference in

901
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,839
Speaker 1: this country. They really have, for sure. Um. And he

902
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 1: was one of just the all time great philanthropists in

903
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 1: American history for sure. Um. But he still pales in

904
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 1: comparison to the the all time top record holder philanthropist,

905
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 1: John D. Rockefeller, who is also Robert Barroon. But he

906
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 1: also is far and away America's most prolific um and

907
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 1: generous benefactor for sure. He was also one of the

908
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 1: most visionary philanthropists of all time too. Yeah. And some

909
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: people say that he was, you know, if you just

910
00:53:55,200 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 1: account for money and inflation, the richest man ever to live. Um.

911
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how they calculate that, because his nine

912
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:07,800
Speaker 1: hundred million dollar UH peak in nineteen twelve is about

913
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 1: twenty three billion today. So here I saw how You're ready.

914
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's yeah, go ahead if you do. His

915
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 1: wealth relative to the total economic output is an even

916
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 1: larger figure than gross domestic product. Had a feeling it

917
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:25,880
Speaker 1: was something like that his wealth represented two percent of

918
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 1: the total economic output of the United States of the time.

919
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 1: To to have that value today, you would have to

920
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 1: be worth about three hundred and fifty billions, and I

921
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 1: think Jeff Bezos is worth hundred and forty or something

922
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:43,320
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, And I think we didn't even mention

923
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 1: it was it Carnegie that had at one point like

924
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 1: one dollar of every twenty dollars in circulation was his. Yeah,

925
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:54,839
Speaker 1: that's right, that was Carnegie for sure. Yeah, I mean

926
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: these numbers are staggering, for sure, people like Rockefeller and

927
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:02,800
Speaker 1: Carnegie is just it's unbelievable. But the thing is in

928
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 1: in like like John John D. Rockefeller was a ruthless,

929
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,720
Speaker 1: ruthless businessman who put a lot of people out of business,

930
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 1: brought a lot of misery and hardship on just small

931
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 1: everyday producers of oil, which we'll see. But again, it's

932
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:21,839
Speaker 1: really difficult to overstate the impact that his philanthropy has

933
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 1: had on the United States. He peaked at nine million,

934
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,760
Speaker 1: like you said, when he died, he had he'd given

935
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 1: away everything but twenty six million of that, and he

936
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,399
Speaker 1: probably felt kind of bad that he had twenty six

937
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:36,839
Speaker 1: million dollars left because he had He was a very

938
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 1: religious man, and apparently he um learned very early on

939
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,839
Speaker 1: that it was every man's religious duty to make as

940
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 1: much money as you possibly can and then to give

941
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:51,319
Speaker 1: away as much money as you possibly can too. And

942
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 1: he he apparently lived that even before he was wealthy,

943
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 1: when he was still just an average worker, he would

944
00:55:57,600 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 1: give away something like ten percent of all of his

945
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: pay check. So he was a philanthropist his whole life,

946
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 1: for sure. He was still a robber baron too though, yeah,

947
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: and his whole you know, of course, oil was his business.

948
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:11,759
Speaker 1: Standard oil, um, it was just a goliath and there

949
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 1: and there were a bunch of big like sort of

950
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: like the railroads. It was oil, and the railroads were

951
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:20,319
Speaker 1: industries where you could have a bunch of people that

952
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 1: had these huge, huge corporations. But Standard Oil was far

953
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 1: and away bigger than any of them. By the early

954
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:31,240
Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds, they controlled more than of the oil market,

955
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 1: can you imagine. And the way that he cornered the

956
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:40,279
Speaker 1: market was, you know, he did that standard organization kind

957
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 1: of thing where he went around and bought it first

958
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 1: and then started to turn up the heat on the competition,

959
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 1: on the holdouts. But one of the ways that he

960
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:51,839
Speaker 1: turned up that heat was he colluded with the railroad, um,

961
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 1: the different railroads in the area who were shipping all

962
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 1: this oil. To say, not only were they going to

963
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 1: give him a rebate so he got money back where

964
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: they wouldn't give money back to other oil shippers just

965
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 1: because of you know, volume, That makes sense, but they

966
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 1: also had to get his business, and he had so

967
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:12,320
Speaker 1: much business that they would do this. They the railroads

968
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 1: had to tax and added tax on all of his competitors,

969
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 1: so they paid an extra twenty to thirty cents of

970
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 1: barrel to ship. Not just paid more than he did

971
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 1: because of his rebates, they paid more in addition to

972
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:29,439
Speaker 1: that just for not being John D. Rockefeller. And then

973
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 1: on top of that, to keep him from taking that

974
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 1: rebate and going around to other railroads and getting a

975
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 1: cheaper rebate and abandoning that railroad. Um, they actually gave

976
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 1: him a kick back of that added tax. So his

977
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: competitors were getting taxed by the railroads and he was

978
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 1: actually getting some of that tax himself too. You just

979
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 1: can't possibly compete with that, and it put a lot

980
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: of smaller oil producers and shippers and refiners out of business.

981
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: It's amazing, it is. Uh. Let me see, he gave

982
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: seventy five million away to the University of Chicago. Well,

983
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 1: it kind of founded the University of Chicago with that money.

984
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: Also Spellman too, which was established to educate freed slaves.

985
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 1: Um he he he bankrolled Spellman for its founding as well.

986
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 1: And in one of our best and most favorite episodes

987
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 1: you might remember the Rockefeller Sanitary Commission helped eradicate hookworm

988
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 1: in the South. That is one of our better episodes

989
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 1: for sure. So those are just four of the uh

990
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 1: sort of most uh famous and some might say notorious.

991
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 1: Robert Barons big long list. You know you could throw

992
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 1: Henry Ford in there, uh, John Jacob Astor, Charles Schwab,

993
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:48,440
Speaker 1: Andrew Mellon, Jay Gould, Yeah, I looked at I was

994
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:50,400
Speaker 1: thinking about J. Paul Getty, but he was later on

995
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 1: he wouldn't have qualified. So some of these guys had

996
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 1: some terrible quotes to that also just made them despised

997
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 1: through history. Um. Carnegie said that, uh, it's not the

998
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 1: man who does the work who gets rich, it's the

999
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 1: man who gets other men to do the work, which

1000
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 1: is not a very tasteful thing to say when you're

1001
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 1: ultra wealthy and breaking strikes with guns. Um. That Jay

1002
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 1: Gould guy I mentioned, He said that he could hire

1003
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 1: one half of the workers in America to shoot the

1004
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 1: other half to death if he wanted to, which is

1005
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 1: another nice thing to say. And apparently John D. Rockefeller

1006
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 1: once said competition is a sin. So these guys had

1007
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:33,919
Speaker 1: some terrible pr um and because of that a lot

1008
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 1: of people have said, like, well, I wonder if some

1009
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 1: of the ultra wealthy industrialists or innovators or people who

1010
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 1: basically the billionaires who are leading the world today are

1011
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 1: are they just like Robert Barns with better pr and

1012
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 1: better marketing. And apparently supposedly that's not necessarily the case.

1013
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 1: And here's why. Remember I was saying that like Robert

1014
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 1: Barons were kind of being reformed by historians these days,

1015
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 1: especially conservative historians. Well, they point to some like really

1016
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 1: indisputable things like these guys were ruthless, and they engaged

1017
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 1: in horrific anti competitive, uh kind of anti capitalist tactics

1018
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 1: to to get those that wealth, and they did it

1019
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 1: on the backs of workers that they took advantage of

1020
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 1: and didn't pay very well and um killed in their workplaces. Basically. Um.

1021
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 1: But the reason that America is still powerful today is

1022
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 1: because of the work that these guys did of the

1023
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: the industries that they created. UM. Public schooling came about

1024
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,919
Speaker 1: and was kind of became widespread to prepare people for

1025
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 1: the jobs that these guys created. UM. And you really can't,

1026
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 1: you can't look away from the fact that some of

1027
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 1: them were the greatest philanthropists that the country has ever produced.

1028
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 1: To UM, the that flies in the face with kind

1029
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 1: of the exception of Bill Gates, it flies in the

1030
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 1: face of the people who are around day, UM that

1031
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:06,440
Speaker 1: that not only are they not great phil anthropists necessarily.

1032
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 1: I'm looking at Steve Jobs, who wasn't around anymore, but

1033
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 1: definitely was not a good phil anthropist in his life.

1034
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 1: He is now, his family is, but he wasn't when

1035
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 1: he was alive. UM. That's a big, big mark against

1036
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: people who have control of significant portions of the wealth

1037
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:24,880
Speaker 1: in America today. But also even more than that, those

1038
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 1: guys today are they're presiding over a decline, the decline

1039
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 1: in wages, decline in living conditions, whereas these guys, these

1040
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 1: captains of industry and the robber barons from the nineteenth century,

1041
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 1: they were presiding over a rise, like an improvement in UM,

1042
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 1: the the way that America lived and the standard of living,

1043
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 1: the kind of the polar opposite, even though the inequality

1044
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:53,520
Speaker 1: is roughly the same. Very interesting, I think so too.

1045
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 1: I also wonder, though, too, if the this this inequality

1046
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 1: will usher in a second progressive era where it seems

1047
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:02,160
Speaker 1: like it has all of the markings to do that.

1048
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 1: We need to do a progressive era episode too sometime. Okay, alright, well,

1049
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:10,680
Speaker 1: since you said deal, Chuck, I think that's time for

1050
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 1: a listener mail. Huh. Yeah, I think I alluded to

1051
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 1: this in another one about the word marijuana. Didn't I

1052
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 1: talk about that totally? But I didn't read the mail, right,

1053
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:24,439
Speaker 1: not that I remember. Now, all right, this is from

1054
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:27,400
Speaker 1: Jack Glick. Hey, guys, love the show. Been listening for

1055
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:29,800
Speaker 1: five years or so, to make sure not to miss

1056
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 1: any new episodes, listening to the one on Macha when

1057
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 1: you started to talk about marijuana, decided to get in touch.

1058
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 1: I am the lead analyst on cannabis taxation for the

1059
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 1: Canadian federal government, and we long ago made a decision

1060
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 1: to refer to the plant by its proper name cannabis. Uh.

1061
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 1: Marijuana has a number of historically racist associations, and I

1062
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 1: know you guys are always using wary of using appropriate

1063
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 1: terms for things. I had a good laugh at the

1064
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:59,160
Speaker 1: question over whether womb was still okay to say in

1065
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 1: the ultrasound const I thought, you'mily to know that how

1066
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:06,800
Speaker 1: outdated and implicitly offensive marijuana is. And I'd like to

1067
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 1: encourage you to use the word cannabis when referring to

1068
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 1: in the future. All the best, keep it up. That

1069
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 1: is from Jack Glick. That is a great name, Jack,

1070
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:20,560
Speaker 1: great job, great name, great email from a great guy.

1071
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 1: I assume it sounds like a great guy. If you

1072
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:25,920
Speaker 1: want to show off what a great person you are,

1073
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 1: you can email us yourself like Jack click did mean

1074
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 1: what a great name? Um. You can wrap it up,

1075
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 1: spank it on the bottom, and send it off to

1076
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 1: Stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should

1077
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 1: Know is a production of iHeart Radios. How Stuff Works.

1078
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:44,480
Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio is at the

1079
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 1: iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

1080
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:48,000
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.