1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much 3 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: for tuning in. Let's hear it for the Man, the Myth, 4 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: the Legend. Superproducer, Max Entertainment Williams. Yeah, everyone, if you 5 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: were wondering what the E stands for, because we've all 6 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: in the Ridiculous History Lore, We're always going on about 7 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 1: Max's mysterious E middle name, because that's definitely a thing, 8 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,520 Speaker 1: right Max, Yeah, definitely, it's definitely that. Jay, I don't 9 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: know what you're talking about. Equals Entertainment because Max is 10 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: nothing if not entertaining. Today's topic, I think is something 11 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: we've all been looking forward to, in addition to our 12 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: research associates, the amazing Doctor Z and Doctor Zach, Doctor Z. 13 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:11,839 Speaker 1: If you're a Canadian, I think it hits a little 14 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: different from me and Ben. Max. I think you probably 15 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,479 Speaker 1: probably grew up going to some iteration of the Chuck 16 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: E Cheese franchise, you know scenario when you were a kid. 17 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 1: But Ben and I or at a certain age, pretty 18 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: sure we went to the OG or at least what 19 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: we thought was the O G until we researched the 20 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: story Showbiz Pizza featuring the terrifying performances of the animatronic 21 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: Rock a Fire Explosion Band. Yeah, it's aka every child's 22 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: first introduction to a casino because the idea is like, 23 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: if you're a kid, this is a miraculous thing, right, 24 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: you get to show up. They have pizza, which is 25 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: still very very hot in many demographics, including podcasters and nol. 26 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: Then you get all the games and the entire time 27 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: there's this magical animatronic band, and if you're young enough, 28 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: I think it looks like they're actually playing. That's a 29 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: question for you when you saw those bands as a 30 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: wee tyke, were you old enough to realize they were 31 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:19,119 Speaker 1: kind of just sort of pretending to play. I don't remember, honestly, 32 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: Like it does feel sort of the way as a 33 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: as an idiot child, you might interpret like someone in 34 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: a suit, you know, like like wearing like a like 35 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 1: a mouse suit or like you know, at Disney or whatever, 36 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:35,839 Speaker 1: the movements from Mega Uncanny Valley. Looking at them now 37 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: at pretty much nightmare fuel. But I remember as a 38 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: kid being really charmed by them and really feeling like 39 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: they did have like life within them. And that's a 40 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: testament to the creators and then the whole thinking behind 41 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: these types of these types of experiences. It really did 42 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: all start, you know, in a way, I think with 43 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: Disney and the imagineers. I just was lucky enough to 44 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: go to Disney World in Florida with my family, and 45 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: I think my favorite part were some of the older 46 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: rise that incorporated that early kind of imagineer animatronics, stuff 47 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: like The Country Bears Jamboree, which I would argue, I 48 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: don't know the timeline exactly, but pretty sure that this 49 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: hold Chucky Cheese, rocket fire explosion animatronic band an utter 50 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: rip off of The Country Bears Jamboree, because that is 51 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 1: a stage situation with guests that pop in and you're 52 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: in a little theater and there's you know, posters on 53 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: the wall as if the stars of the show are 54 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: actual real life you know, celebrities and stuff. Pretty sure 55 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: that's where it came from. I could I could see 56 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: that too, And you know what, I was abroad most 57 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: recently in Japan, there are a ton of venues and 58 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: restaurants that have stuff like this going on. It's just 59 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: really really cool. And today we're going to talk about 60 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: what our pal doctors g calls the many lives of 61 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: Charles Entertainment cheese. I'm with you on the timeline because 62 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: it might be surprising for a lot of us to 63 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: know that this story dates back to the nineteen seventies. 64 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: In May of nineteen seventy seven, San Jose, California, the 65 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: one of the Atari co founders, Nolan Bushnell, said, Hey, 66 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: let's let's jus up your average pizza place, you know 67 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: what I mean. Let's let's make it. Let's make it 68 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: not just pizza, not just a caricature of an Italian 69 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: chef on the boxes. Let's get some robots in there. 70 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: And then you know, we can't really can't really put 71 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: boundaries on art, right, So these robots are real characters. 72 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: One of them who might not have aged well is 73 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: a rat who has a Jersey accent for some reason 74 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: and is chained smoking yeah, like giant cigars. He's like 75 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: clearly mob connected. And I just I do just want 76 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: to add, we don't have to jump back to this, 77 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 1: but this is seventy seven. Country Bear Jamboree was debuted 78 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: in Florida in Orlando in nineteen seventy one um at 79 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: the at the Magic Kingdom there's a great documentary about 80 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 1: this m and again, like in the Rocket Fire Explosion 81 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 1: documentary that I think you're referencing, they don't really exactly 82 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: cop to ripping that off, but it's it's it's eerily simple. 83 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: It's like if anyone it's pretty much the same. Yeah, man, 84 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 1: It's kind of like that behind the music interview with 85 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: Vanilla Ice about the beat for under d. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 86 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 1: So Nolan Bushnell grew up in Utah. He said he 87 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: had an engineering degree. He had a background and kind 88 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: of you know in amusement parks and kind of like 89 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: carnival type atmospheres. He learned that there was a business 90 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: side to these types of shows and these types of 91 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: traveling you know, scenarios and um. He started to pay 92 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: really close attention to consumers and the kinds of things 93 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: that they liked and their their patterns and their habits, 94 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: right sort of the way you know, you think about 95 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: the way like a grocery store is organized in order 96 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: to kind of capitalize on people's you know, what attracts 97 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: them and like to put things in a certain order 98 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: so that they the maximum yield out of your customer. 99 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's just part of it. It's 100 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 1: all about making money, and that's what he was doing. Um. 101 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,559 Speaker 1: He graduated the University of Utah, and then he moved 102 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: to California and he wanted to be an engineer for 103 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 1: ding Ding Ding Disney. And they don't call him engineers there, 104 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: do they They call them imagineers. They do, they do. 105 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: And this was already he's still he's an early adopter 106 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: of this kind of stuff. And it's a dream job, 107 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: right obviously, And in many ways it's still a dream 108 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,840 Speaker 1: job today. A good friend of ours, friends of the show, 109 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: Andrew Howard, he might recognize from our sister podcast Saver. 110 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 1: He has he has imagineers in his family. So cool, right, 111 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: so um, so let's go to Ted Dapney. Ted Dapney 112 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 1: is a friend of Nolan Bushnell's and together they co 113 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: found Atari and Ted is always Ted is always very 114 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: very forthright about this. He says, the idea that became 115 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: Pizza Time was Nolan Bushnell's dream. It was the beginning 116 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: of everything. He didn't even think about a video game 117 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: until later. Apparently, according to Ted, his pal Nolan would 118 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: take them around to different restaurants and they would go 119 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: look at the restaurants, and they would say, like, Okay, 120 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: what's working here? How can we get robots involved? You know, 121 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: how can we make this a base, Like how can 122 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: we make this Disneyland at home? I love that this 123 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: was like this was truly the dream. And then kind of, 124 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: you know, the video game industry they kind of invented 125 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: by accident. I mean, that wasn't my accident. You know. 126 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: It put that whole pizza dream on the back burner 127 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: because yeah, Dabney and Bushnell started working on something called 128 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: computer Space, so the world's very first commercial arcade machine 129 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy. He never quite let the pizza dream die, 130 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: you know, he sort of like had it in reserve. 131 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: But they went on in nineteen seventy two to found 132 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: a little company he might have heard of, called Atari 133 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: and created a little game he might have heard of 134 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: that seems really crazily dated now, but at the time 135 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: was absolutely just you know, a craze palm woopo, you know, 136 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: the one the two paddles on each side, and like, 137 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: you know, you could play against somebody in the same room. 138 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: I guess if everything was in the same room at 139 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: the time, because there was no online gaming yet. By 140 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: the way, all of this stuff makes me think of 141 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: an incredible show that I've been sleeping on for years, 142 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: was recommended to me called Halt and Catch Fire. That 143 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: is about sort of the PC like race of the 144 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies and eighties and all of this kind of 145 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: Atari stuff and all of this sort of like nascent 146 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: computer tech that again by today's center, when you look 147 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 1: at the products, seems so data. It shows you kind 148 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: of the behind the scenes of how scrappy all these 149 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: folks were and how forward thinking. Highly recommend Halt and 150 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: Catch Fire and that as an amazing like post punk 151 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: kind of soundtrack. Yeah, and there's there's a lot of 152 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: good or fantastic documentary work about the early days of 153 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:30,079 Speaker 1: video games. I used to write a series many years 154 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: ago now called Stuff of Genius, which I mentioned before. Yeah, 155 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: when we talk about we talk about Bushnell, we also 156 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: talk about the success of early Atari and Pong. It's 157 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: it's pretty crazy, right, because you never know what the 158 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: lightning in the bottle will be. That's why for almost 159 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: every story of an inventor or a great luminary, you 160 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: will see that they had a cavalcade of other stuff 161 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: that they were interested in you know what I mean, 162 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: Like Newton is really into alchemy. He was hoping it'd 163 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: be pizza, but it just so happened that it was 164 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: video game, so pizza had to kind of take a 165 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: back seat, right right, But David Busters figured out yes, yes, 166 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: just so David Busters picked up the mantel there, I 167 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: would argue, right, well, I don't know exactly We're not 168 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: here to talk about the history of David but we 169 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: will leave that for another day. Again, Palm Massive credited 170 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: as being the first like commercial, huge blockbuster success, So 171 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: when you go back and look at it now or 172 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: any of the games from that era, it's like, what 173 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: is that? And the thing about Palm though, was that 174 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 1: it was fast, like the feedback you know of moving 175 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: those paddles like you, it felt fair. There was a 176 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: certain amount of skill that was involved, unlike games like 177 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: et most of which ended up in a landfill. That's 178 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: also a story for another day. Story. It is a 179 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: very true story. But the industry that essentially Bushnell and 180 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: Dabney founded is today worth you know, close to one 181 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: hundred billion dollars and just more advanced than any of 182 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 1: these folks at the time. Never could have dreamed of. Yeah, 183 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:17,839 Speaker 1: and they said, look, the profits that Attari are magnificent. 184 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: We're doing gangbusters. We're doing we're doing busters numbers here, 185 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: and there's not really a way for us to stay 186 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: competitive because so many other forces are entering this market 187 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: and innovating in their own way. So eventually Nolan sells 188 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: Atari to Warner Communications in nineteen seventy six for twenty 189 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: eight million dollars. And what do you say, guys? Should 190 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: we do an inflation calculation? There? Can we have a 191 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: boot candidate and a booth and a boo what do 192 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: we got? What do we got? What do we got? 193 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: And we're talking twenty eight million dollars in nineteen seventy 194 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 1: six dollars today would be a whopping a boob. Oh, 195 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:11,839 Speaker 1: we have to skip it. It It won't let us do ten. 196 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, here's how we'll do it. Yeah. I 197 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: don't know how much of this we want to leave in. 198 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 1: Uh spoiler alert. Folks were not great at math. Apparently 199 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: neither is the internet. So this is so much money 200 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:37,079 Speaker 1: that hang on. Okay, oh wow, just this alone is 201 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: making this a two part episode. Okay, this is so 202 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: much money that we had to go to our trusty 203 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: inflation calculator and put it in in a couple of 204 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: different blocks. So twenty eight million dollars nineteen seventy six, 205 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: like you said, Noel today, that is one hundred and 206 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: fifty one million dollars, one hundred fifty one million, five 207 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: hundred two thousand, one hundred and fifty eight dollars and 208 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: twenty eight cents. That's crazy, that's crazy. What we're saying 209 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: is he didn't need the money after that. He didn't. 210 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: He didn't need the money obviously. But you know what, 211 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: a lot of times these types of creators, the true creators, 212 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: they're not the business guys. And again you'll see that 213 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:24,199 Speaker 1: if you watch Hold and Catch Fire. They really do 214 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: a good job of showing those types and like the 215 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: true creative innovators versus like the ones that are just 216 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: in it to make to turn a profit. So yeah, 217 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: he also though, did, in order to get that payout, 218 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: have to sign a five year non compete agreement, which 219 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: is the killer of creatives, right if you're if you 220 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: can't compete in that space anymore. He did remain on 221 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: as head of Atari, but because of now being part 222 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: of this giant corporate structure, he wasn't able to innovate 223 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: like he used to be able to. That's another price 224 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,079 Speaker 1: of you know, I wouldn't call this seven. I don't 225 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: know selling out at such a loaded term, but that 226 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: is one of the prices of of you know, selling 227 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: your company as you unless you have it very specifically 228 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: outline in the terms, you know, you're gonna have a 229 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: new corporate overlord. But there was one project that he 230 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: got the green light on and it involved yea of 231 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: all his ideas, these suits are saying, well, like of 232 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: all his ideas, the suits are saying, go back, Nolan, 233 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: and go back to that restaurant thing you had my 234 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: attention and now you have my interest. You know, only 235 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: at this stage it was called Coyote Pizza Um and 236 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: he I guess he talks about an amusing anecdote of 237 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: kind of selling the story, you know, selling the branding 238 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: behind it. He ordered what he thought was a full 239 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: sized coyote costume, and instead of a coyote, they screwed 240 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: up or he maybe miss you know, identified it in 241 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: the catalog. It was a giant gray rat. The rat 242 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: costume you have became very popular around the Atari HQ. 243 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: So so there you might have clocked at the beginning 244 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: of the show, folks where we said that there was 245 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: this mascot that was a chain smoking rat with a 246 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: Jersey accent. That was their Bob Ross happy accident of 247 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: Coyote pizza. They said, Okay, for a while, Rick Rat 248 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: was so popular around the office that he became the 249 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: unofficial mascot for Atari. Basically, I mean, you know, they're 250 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: similar enough. They're both scavengers, you know, they're both have 251 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: kind of matted fur and eat carry on and smoke 252 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: cigars and were bowler hats. You know, what you can 253 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: do with the coyote, you can also do with the rat. 254 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: So the suits at now Atari Corporate or like go 255 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: with God, and they essentially they gave him, didn't they 256 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: give him someone to help him out, the Gene Landrum 257 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: I believe his name. Yeah, yeah, So okay, here's here's 258 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: their idea. And we've got quotes from Gene on this. 259 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: So Coyote Pizza is taken off. People love Rick Rat, 260 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: and Jean says I did the complete business plan for 261 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: the rollout of the Atari twenty six hundred. It was 262 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: going to take him another year to get it designed 263 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: and put in at emotion, and Nolan said, hey, Geen, 264 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: you got all this time, go go to a business 265 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: plan just like you did before. I loved it, but 266 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: go do it for this uh family entertainment concept. And 267 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: then Gene takes to it like a fish to water 268 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: or a rat to smoke in cigars. Apparently, he says, 269 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: he comes up with all the ideas and you know, 270 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: and Nolan, one thing that's really stand up about Nolan 271 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: Bushnell is that he gives credit where he's where it's duing. 272 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: He says, in a real way to him, Gene is 273 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: the founder of Chuck E Cheese because Jean took this 274 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 1: idea and made it reality, like renting the facility, hiring people, 275 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: getting recipes, everything right. Jeene was on the ground floor 276 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,239 Speaker 1: for it. Yeah, exactly, And I mean it really was 277 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 1: a concept that outside of like you know, the Country 278 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: Bears Jamboree, which doesn't a restaurant experience, it's just you know, 279 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: a old honkytoonk kind of show, wasn't really out there. 280 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 1: So that even this was in the same way that 281 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 1: Atari was really the first you know, home console to market, 282 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: it didn't ultimately end up being the one that was 283 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: the most impactful that would have been the nes you know, 284 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: that came a little later because the twenty six hundred 285 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,159 Speaker 1: that we were talking about too, was plagued with all 286 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: kinds of problems, or they like pored it over things 287 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 1: like pac Man and made all these investments in you know, 288 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: high level intellectual property like et. But the ports didn't 289 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 1: look very good, and then some of those bets on 290 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: intellectual property really failed. Like I mentioned at the top 291 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: of the show, et it was such a poor seller 292 00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: that ended up in a landfill. But this whole rush 293 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: Shrunk concept thing really seemed to have legs. So they 294 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,679 Speaker 1: do a little bit of shuffling around. Landrum's kind of 295 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: he's a bit not in charge. He definitely has a say, 296 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: and Landrum is developing this idea Rick Rats Pizza up 297 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: starts to transform Rick Rats gotta go, he says, Nolan, 298 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 1: we're making this the kids place. We can't have a rat. 299 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: It's too predatory and too lethal. Now that's interesting because 300 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 1: we know kind of where things landed eventually with Charles 301 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 1: Entertainment Cheese. Yeah, so they had to they had to compromise. 302 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: Just like William Faulkner said, kill your darlings, you know, 303 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: you have to make tough decisions when it comes to 304 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 1: effective creativity. And I'm sure they quoted Faulkner a lot 305 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: in the early days of Chucky Cheese. Sure. So originally 306 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: what they did is they tried to find something that 307 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: was less maybe predatory or lethal, because Jean was concerned 308 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: a rat would be kind of scared. So Rick Rat 309 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: became Big Cheese. Doesn't sound gangster ish at all, yeah, right, 310 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: it sounds like he got a promotion in the mob one. 311 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 1: He's the Big Cheese now. Yeah, but he This was 312 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: before the age of widespread internet, right, so they couldn't 313 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: just google the name, and it took them a second 314 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,880 Speaker 1: to learn that the name had already been taken somebody, 315 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: some other company had trademarked Big Cheese. So they went 316 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 1: to the next best thing, Chuck E Cheese, which Nolan 317 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: called a three smile name. That's really cute and as 318 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: we mentioned before, just like coincidentally with Max's mysterious e 319 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: middle name, the eastood for entertainment. But an important part again, 320 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: they don't speak about, you know, we know how litigious 321 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: the mouse is, so you don't see a lot of 322 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: people saying, you know, how long. Yeah, that's definitely where 323 00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: we got are what we were trying to do. But 324 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: chuck each cheese does that ring a bell? Mick e mouse? 325 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: Chuck e cheese? I mean, you know, I guess when 326 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: you steal, you steal from the best. We are going 327 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: to get into a bit of how some of these 328 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: things were lifted from the imagineers in just a second. Yeah, yeah, 329 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: because there is definitely there's definitely a vanilla ice, you know, 330 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: queen situation going on here. So Landrum, despite his initial reservations, 331 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 1: he actually was in the boardroom when after he had 332 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: made this first pitch, everybody went nuts. They loved it, 333 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: and he said, I wouldn't hire me. Jean said, don't, 334 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,199 Speaker 1: I wouldn't hire me. I'm an electronics guy. But he 335 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: got really into this and he started thinking about it 336 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: very seriously, and he said, look, we want a family 337 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: friendly atmosphere. We don't want any of those rowdy hooligans 338 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: that you see at other pizza places. So our solution 339 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 1: is that all miners will have to be accompanied by adults. 340 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: And this is something that occurs today right like it Also, 341 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 1: if you think about it, and they don't say this, 342 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 1: but if you think about it, it's a great way 343 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 1: to make sure that every table has more customers. Yeah, 344 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 1: not to mention that they also sell beer to this day. 345 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: That's you know, for the adults. And my kid is 346 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: not a chucky cheese birthday party age anymore. But when 347 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 1: she was a little younger, I remember taking her to 348 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: the one and I've obviously not been as a parent 349 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: ever before, and they do a thing I don't know 350 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:35,479 Speaker 1: if they've always done this, where they give you an 351 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: invisible ink stamp on the back of your hand and 352 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: on the back of your kid's hand, and they have 353 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: to match so that when you leave, they shine a 354 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: line on it and see if they match, to make 355 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: sure that no one's snatched somebody else's kid, which I mean, 356 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: it's a good safety measure to agree, you know. Also, 357 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: here's the thing, why would you have your kid's birthday here? Well, 358 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: you would have it there because technology comes together in 359 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,239 Speaker 1: a very cool way that is also a little bit 360 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: cheaper than Disney just being brass tacks. Here. If you 361 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 1: go to this pizza place, then you are guaranteed to 362 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: see animatronic like live cartoon characters that sing songs and 363 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: they do comedy bits like vaudeville style every eight minutes 364 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 1: on the dot as you and your family and your 365 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 1: kids friends eat your pizza. The pizza is just sort 366 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: of a smaller part of the experience or part of 367 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: the gestalt here. People aren't going because they're rave Michelin 368 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: star reviews of the pizza. And I'm bummed that when 369 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: I was at Disney World, I didn't got to get 370 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: a chance to go to another one of the inspirations 371 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: for this outside of pizza, which was the Enchanted teaking Room. 372 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: And also, by the way, if anyone's interested in Disney 373 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: history and the history of the imagineers, there's a museum 374 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 1: that's not affiliated with the Walt Disney Company. It's called 375 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: the Walt Disney Family Museum, and it's in the Presidio 376 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:06,479 Speaker 1: in San Francisco, and they have a lot of the 377 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 1: prototypes for those things, and a lot of like the 378 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 1: technology that like eye Works invented, you know, who was 379 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: one of the original kind of right hand tech people 380 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: at Disney, like the optical printer and the multiplane camera 381 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 1: and all of that stuff. And they have like some 382 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: of the you know, the animatronic prototypes for what would 383 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: end up being the Tiki Room and the Country Bear Jamboree. 384 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: But yeah, surprise, the Country Bear Jamboree did predate all 385 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: of this Pizza time business. So and as we know, 386 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: Bushnell originally wanted to go to work as an imagineer 387 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: at Disney, so it makes sense. I would say, probably 388 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,479 Speaker 1: goes a bit beyond inspiration and a little more straight 389 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 1: out theft. I don't know, but I haven't heard anything 390 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: about a knee lawsuits because we know that Disney is 391 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: very litigious, and nothing in our research points of any serious, 392 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: you know, legal cases between the two. Yeah. Yeah, it's 393 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: a good point. It's a good point. Maybe they gave 394 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,679 Speaker 1: them a pass because if you think about it, the 395 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: existence of a Chuck e Cheese at this point in 396 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: time is also helpful for Disney, right true, so it 397 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,479 Speaker 1: makes them look good as well. There may have been 398 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: a calculation there also. I gotta just say, you know, 399 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: plagiarism aside whether or not we want to consider this stealing, 400 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: and it does cleave pretty closely to Disney. Just for 401 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,120 Speaker 1: the record, if you put all that to one side, 402 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: the technology behind it is so impressive. They automated these 403 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,959 Speaker 1: with real to real tape. That's how they like program them. 404 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 1: That's nuts, I mean. And there's anybody that's you know, 405 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: even a sort of audio nerd out there, understands that. 406 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 1: Like you know, with computers, you have so much precision 407 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: as to like when audio connects or synchronizes with picture 408 00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. But real to real tape is 409 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: literally magnet netic tape. You can you can automate a 410 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: start and stop of something like that, but it has 411 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,479 Speaker 1: to all be a program that runs in sync with 412 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: these other devices that you know, the movement of the 413 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: animatronics and stuff, and then it just stops and it's 414 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,199 Speaker 1: all kind of sync up together. It's another thing that 415 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: at the Family Museum you can really see how they 416 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,719 Speaker 1: did sound sync in the early days of like you know, 417 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: Fantasia for example, where every little audio queue syncs up 418 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: with a visual you know, to the on the dime, 419 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: and it's so difficult to do. We take it for granted, 420 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,120 Speaker 1: you know how analog and hands on and really just 421 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: required so much thought, you know, to to do all 422 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: that stuff. So you're right, even this kind of kind 423 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: of poor man's version of that still quite impressive, oh 424 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 1: very much so. And also if you if you want 425 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: to get a sense of how impressive it is. Just 426 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: go over to YouTube and watch watch these lovely characters. 427 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: When something goes wrong, it's terrifying. Uh, And it's worth 428 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: it's worth your time if you're like I don't have 429 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: enough nightmares on a on a daily basis. And it 430 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: left a mark pop culturally in that respect too, because 431 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: of things like five Nights at Freddie's, you know, where 432 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: you have these like animatronic things jump scaring you, you 433 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: know at all of Yeah, because it is nightmare fuel 434 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: when the skins are off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so 435 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: with that, let's give some shout outs some credit where 436 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: it's due to the other people associated with the design 437 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:30,439 Speaker 1: of Chucky Cheese and other characters Bob Flemates or Fleamates, 438 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: and then engineers like Larry Eamons and Rob Milner, these 439 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: are all Atari guys. And then Harold gold Branson is 440 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 1: the one who said let's put some skin on these, 441 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: let's make them not look like Westworld minus masks. So 442 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: Harold Goldbrandson is the reason they look cute rather than sinister. Yeah, 443 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: if you watch that Rocke Fire explosion documentary, there is 444 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: a really good point that I think it's bushnell I 445 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: can't remember one of one of the one of the 446 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,199 Speaker 1: main players points out is that, you know, this is 447 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: a combination of many disciplines. It requires computer programming, it 448 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: requires engineering by building the skeletons, and it requires things 449 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: like special effects, makeup experience, you know, to make these 450 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: these stretched kind of you know, posable, articulatable faces. And 451 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: so it was all kind of coming together in this 452 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 1: final presentation that really combined all of these completely you know, 453 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: different backgrounds one hundred percent. And this is where we 454 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: shout out the real to real tape wizard Mike Hatcher, 455 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: who programmed a lot of these movements. So all these 456 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 1: folks kind of voltrod up they assemble their avengers as 457 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: a result. The first Chucky Cheese Pizza Time Theater opens 458 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 1: May seventeen, nineteen seventy seven, San Jose, and this was 459 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 1: an old brokerage building. It was pretty big, five thousand 460 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 1: square feet. They had an indoor arcade. Of course, the 461 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: marquee event. The big tent here is the animatronics show 462 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 1: and Null people really liked it, and they started adding 463 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: different guest characters too, right yeah, and again started to 464 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 1: keep harping on this, but like a the same with 465 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 1: the Country Bears Jamboree. They have several different stages and 466 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: different kind of guest performers pop in. And I also 467 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: just wanted to point out that originally, I think it 468 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: was just like animated torsos. They didn't even have like 469 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: bottom halfs and they just appeared in these kind of 470 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: fake picture frames a zone call. Yeah, just yeah, just 471 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: like that. But no, you're right. They definitely started to 472 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: bring in other characters like Dolly Dimples, who's a piano 473 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: playing hippo, and the Fantasy Forest Game Preserve, which I 474 00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: guess that's her band, and that was named after gold 475 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: Brandson had a company called Fantasy Forest, so we named 476 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: it after that. And then we also had let's see 477 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: the there was. They made some changes there were there 478 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: was a group of backup singers called the Warbletts, and 479 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: they changed them to the Mopsie Sisters. Uh. And then 480 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: they had a character called Krusty the Cat, which isn't 481 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: particularly appealing, and they switched that one out for a 482 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: little purple fella named mister Munch. Yeah, they had a 483 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: lot of folks in there. It's kind of like how 484 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: McDonald's had its pantheon, you know, in the seventies and eighties. 485 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the Grimace, which Max pointed out to us, 486 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: is apparently meant to represent a giant taste bud. Is 487 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: it true, Max? Yeah, according to Wait Wait don't tell me, 488 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: so you know, yeah, it could be just comedy, but 489 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: that's what they said on Wait Wait, don't tell me? 490 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: It's one Oh Max forgot to tell you. This is 491 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: totally off the rails here too. But we you know, 492 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: we're huge fans public Radio and Noel and I got 493 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: to meet and hang out with Ophia Eisenberg from asking 494 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: me another. You may know her as her Ripe Bagonias 495 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: if you listen to the show, So we might actually 496 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: be able to talk a genuine a radio expert onto 497 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: the show. Maybe, right. I guess we got to do 498 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: a good job with this episode. We'll do our best, Yes, 499 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: we'll see. We'll do our best to do our duty 500 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: to God in our country and Charles Entertainment cheese. Uh 501 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: so ya. Sari was kind of getting fed up with 502 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: the whole restaurant idea. It was no longer particularly aligned 503 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: with their goals because they had, after all, bought a 504 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: video game company right right, and they like this, So 505 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: the thing is you can do these fun, experimental projects 506 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: when times are good, but when when times get a 507 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,959 Speaker 1: little bit leaner, the fun stuff goes out the window 508 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: when you got to focus on your core mission. And 509 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: as har A's having a hard time getting into the 510 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: home video market and really establishing a good steak, so 511 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: their parent company, Warner sells the restaurant and concept to 512 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: Nolan Bushnell. They sell him his own dream back to 513 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: him in nineteen seventy eight for five hundred thousand dollars. 514 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: Bushnell doesn't waste any time, he doesn't give up. He 515 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: incorporates the business. It's gonna be Pizza Time Theater Incorporated. 516 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: We're going to open more of them. I'm going to 517 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: appoint myself chairman, and Gene, I need you on this. 518 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: Forget Atari, forget the suits where Rick rap people through 519 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: and through. Yeah, and they really start to try to, 520 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: you know, launch a seriously intense marketing campaign. They need franchisees, 521 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: you know, they need swag, They need to get people 522 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: aligned with this brand. And they had like a PR 523 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: firm that they were working with called Easily Public Relations, 524 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: and they were making some kind of outlandish claims that 525 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 1: also seemed to me that might have attracted some legal proceedings, 526 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: but I again, we didn't read much about that or anything. 527 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: But they claimed that the Pizza Time Theater had the 528 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 1: only computer controlled three D animation outside Disneyland. A bold claim. Yeah, which, 529 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: well it's bold because what's interesting about it is that 530 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: it's not true, right, It's that's the interesting part, that 531 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: it's very much on purpose wrong. I don't know if 532 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: we can lay this at the feet of Nolan and 533 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: Gene because they cracked a deal with a Well, no, 534 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: they know, you're right, they did. They were the ones 535 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: who propagated some of the embellished marketing, but they also 536 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: were successful. Yeah. They got the interest of a guy 537 00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: named Robert L. Brock. Yeah, Bob to his friends, Brock 538 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: to his friends. Yeah, bah bah bah bah bab Barrock. Yeah, 539 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: and Bob Bob Brock is the president of TIM. Yeah. 540 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: That that's that, That Tim, the one you're thinking of. No, 541 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 1: not that, not that Tim. That's the Topeka in management, 542 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: Topeka and his old I'm sorry not to rag on 543 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: the guy, but his claim to fame was he was 544 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: incredibly rich because he owned the largest franchise of holiday 545 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: in hotels, the most innocuous and boring of hotels in 546 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: all of the world. But they've sure been around for 547 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: a long time and they did probably, as far as 548 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 1: I know, originate the Continental Breakfast, but maybe not. That's 549 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: just what I associate it with. Well, every every day 550 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: is a holiday at the end, You're welcome, Bob. Yeah, 551 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: that hotel Motele holiday. And uh, these guys are trying 552 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: to get into the tech sector now, Uh, to a 553 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: to a degree, I think he just something he understood restaurants, 554 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 1: you know. I mean, after all, hotel, you know, management 555 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: is part of the hospitality sector. So this is like, 556 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: you know, it's a restaurant, I know what that is. 557 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 1: The other stuff is a sort of extra, but also 558 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: seems to be, you know, aligning with kind of cutting 559 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: as transo Brock invested. In June of nineteen seventy nine, 560 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:21,399 Speaker 1: he signed a two hundred million dollar co development deal 561 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:27,240 Speaker 1: with Bushnell, which gave Brock exclusive franchising rights to Pizza 562 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 1: Time theaters in sixteen states across the southern and Midwestern 563 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 1: United States. The contract also included some language around some goals. Right. Yeah, 564 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: and this is where it gets a little bit tricky. 565 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 1: So this is also a turning point, and this is 566 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: going to be a two part episode of Folks. The 567 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:54,959 Speaker 1: contract they sign with the president of TIM is, Yeah, 568 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,840 Speaker 1: they're going to give them two hundred or two hundred 569 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 1: and eighty five stores, that's what they wan want to 570 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 1: grow too. And of those two hundred and eighty five, 571 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 1: the majority two hundred stores are going to be operated 572 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 1: directly by TIM. The other eighty five are going to 573 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: be kind of sublet subfranchised out. And this turns out 574 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 1: to be a bit of a Faustian bargain, I can 575 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 1: see that. And then, just so I'm getting the terms straight, 576 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 1: would the completely owned and operated ones would those be 577 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: what you might consider like the flagship stores and then 578 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: the franchised ones or like maybe in smaller markets or 579 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 1: something like that, or I don't know, I'm trying to 580 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: understand experientially what would be the difference or is it 581 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: just a logistical thing, like why do it this way? Yeah, 582 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: well we're going to have to find out in Part 583 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:49,279 Speaker 1: two Entertainment. Cheese done. I'm sorry, I didn't mean. I 584 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,799 Speaker 1: didn't mean to leave it with such a cliffhanger. All 585 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: let's hang on the cliff together, because we'll be back 586 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: this Thursday with the rest of the story. But in 587 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: the meantime too, we want to say thank you to 588 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 1: everybody's been tuning in while we are on the road. 589 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: You might have noticed sometimes our mics sound a little weird. 590 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: We've been recording in different hotel rooms thanks to Max 591 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: Ver's patients. Noel, you and I have been playing Russian 592 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 1: Roulette basically with Wi Fi connections. I think you had 593 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: a slow one last time. I get a slow one 594 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: this time. But we're not gonna let that stop us 595 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,839 Speaker 1: from telling mister Cheese's story. Nah, we wouldn't. It's just 596 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 1: too important. It's just too damn important. You know, you 597 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: owe it to yourself to a full understanding of the 598 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,760 Speaker 1: cultural experience that is the United States and Charles's entertainment. 599 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: Cheese is gonna get you there. And seriously, you might 600 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:43,439 Speaker 1: think you've heard the best bits, I assure you there 601 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: is much more to come. So thanks to our research 602 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: associate extraordinaire doctor Z for this one and more to 603 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 1: come from this incredible story in the next episode. Who 604 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 1: else we got to think? There's others. There's others, Oh 605 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: so many, Chuck e Cheese. Let's think also, of course, 606 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: our pal mister Matt Frederick, who is hanging out with 607 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: us here as we were on the road. Let's thank 608 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 1: Eve's JEFFU Christopher hastiotis here in spirit. And then, of 609 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: course the our own field correspondent, let's call him Alex Williams, 610 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,360 Speaker 1: who composed this track. He showed did. We'll see you 611 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:31,879 Speaker 1: next time, folks. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, 612 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,240 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 613 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:36,320 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.