1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: M Hi everyone, It's me Josh and for this week's 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: s Y s K Selecta, I've chosen a rather peculiar 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:11,399 Speaker 1: episode that peaks in on a strange and fascinating quirk 4 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: of nature and geography that changed the course of history. 5 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: A lot of the sciences and humanities are covered here, 6 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 1: and it is a gross episode, but it's also engrossing, 7 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: so please enjoy this one on hookworms and the South. 8 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of I 9 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 10 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: There's Charles W Chuck Bryant, There's Jerry Rowland. She goes, 11 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: she just ran away after nine years. I knew that 12 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: would happen eventually. Yep. She had her little bendel sack 13 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: over her shoulder and she's barefoot, which is dangerous. Jerry, 14 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: that was a nice little set up. Yeah, you might 15 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: get uh, what do you call it, the do itch? Yeah? 16 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 1: Or well that's the best one, the ground itch do, 17 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: which is way better than ground get a little discomfort 18 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: in the webbing between your toes, a little scratchy. Maybe 19 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: a few days later you're like, this is this athlete's foot? No, 20 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: that doesn't make you cough. Yeah. Plus, you're no athlete. 21 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: Don't flatter yourself, that's what they would say. And then 22 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: you start coughing a little bit, and a few weeks 23 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: after that, you're just a big dope that can't lift 24 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: an arm. Do you go stand up and do anything? 25 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: You have hookworm? Yeah? Uh, well, there you have it. 26 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: Were you told as a child like you'll get worms? 27 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: And you're gonna ask me that because I grew up 28 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: in the South, Well no, I mean I was told 29 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: that too. I don't remember hearing this stuff. I remember 30 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: being scared about uh, scoliosis, and I remember being scared 31 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: about nuclear annihilation and so as I um, and that's 32 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: about it. Razors and apples at Halloween, yeah, which is 33 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: as we've covered, not true. Any instance that happened to 34 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: that happened because of the urban legend not gi uh No, 35 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: I've never really heard of this. And what made you 36 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: think of this? By the way, I don't know you 37 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: like the parasites. I love parasites. They're interesting, especially this 38 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: particular parasite, because it turns out the hookworm might be 39 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 1: the most interesting of all of the parasitic worms here 40 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: on planet Earth. If you ask me. Well, agreed, because, 41 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: as you will see, the social context in the Southern 42 00:02:55,200 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: United States of what the hookworm meant over centuries never 43 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: knew about it, and it's pretty astounding. And as someone 44 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: who has long had to defend the South as not 45 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: just a backward place with a bunch of dumb yokels, 46 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna from now on, I'm just gonna say, hookworm. 47 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: Look it up. Listen to our episode, and people right 48 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: now are going, what in the world. So let's well, 49 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: let's get into it. Let's remove their the fog of 50 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: curiosity and maybe irritation a little bit and start talking 51 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: about hookworms. Right, so we said you it starts with 52 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: your foot. Yeah, these are round worms. Yes, they're a 53 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: type of round worm, a nematode right, yeah, nematode phyle 54 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: um um. They're pretty young, about four million years old. 55 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: And uh, they have been described in this article you 56 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: set most commonly as a as far as the way 57 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: they look as a tube within a tube like a 58 00:03:55,360 --> 00:04:00,040 Speaker 1: pair of socks. And then at one right at and 59 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: in they have cutting plates also called fangs or teeth. Mouthparts, yeah, 60 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: mouth parts, and as Tracy Wilson would put it, and 61 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: um they use those things for sucking blood. So what 62 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: they want it's your blood because they get nutrients from 63 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: your blood and that makes them parasites. Yeah, and they 64 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 1: as as we sourced a few really great articles on this. 65 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: But um as one of them points out to that 66 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: a good parasite or a good hookworm doesn't want to 67 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: kill you because, as it says in this article, that 68 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: means the ride is over, right exactly. They want to 69 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: keep you alive and lazy so they can just keep 70 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: reproducing and keep sucking on your blood forever and ever 71 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: and ever. And in a very large part, fookworms have 72 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: covalved with humans, and they've done so in a way 73 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: that they get the maximum benefit out of infecting a 74 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: human um without the pitfall of killing the human and 75 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: ending the ride for themselves. Right. So um and they've 76 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 1: had four hundred million years to do it. And there's 77 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: two kinds of hookworms. Mainly, there's tons of hookworms. Like 78 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 1: from what I understand, just about every animal. Every mammal 79 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: has its own type of hookworm, but they don't infect 80 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: cross animal typically. And there's two types of hookworms that 81 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: infects humans specifically, there's the New World hookworm naricatur Americana 82 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: is very open minded. And then there's the old word 83 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 1: world hookworm uh and solostoma duodenale minded right, and so 84 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 1: both of them thrive in warmer tropical ish climates and 85 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: the an AMERICANUS in particular loves sandy, loamy soil. And 86 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: it just so happens that in the America in south 87 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: has just the kind of climate to host an American 88 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: it's and it's around. Yeah, so here's what happens. We 89 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: were kind of kidding around about Jerry walking around barefoot. 90 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: But Jerry's old like me, and she grew up in 91 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: the South. We were all we all come from sharecroppers 92 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: and uh had outhouses. So here's what would happen um 93 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: all the way up until like which is kind of distressing. Yeah, 94 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 1: I thought so too. You could walk around barefoot, as 95 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: uh Southern children were wanted to do. Yeah. Apparently the 96 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 1: chances of your of being a kid with shoes, especially 97 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: in the rural South, was like next to nothing up 98 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: until that maybe the fifties or sixties. Really yeah, Uh, 99 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: so they would like we talked about the do uh 100 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: the do it? She would walk around barefoot. These little 101 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: guys would get between your toes, uh, root into your 102 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: body through the feet, make their way to the blood 103 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: vessels and start the voyage to the lungs. This is 104 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: it's a fantastic voyage. Well for them it is. Yeah. Um, 105 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: it's like inner space. Yeah um, up through the lungs, 106 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: finally through the circulatory system to the lungs where eventually, 107 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: like you said, you then you cough it up with 108 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: a dry cough and then you swallow it into your 109 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: gut and the intestine. And that's when it's like, this 110 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: is where I wanted to be all along. And the 111 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: nuts they go up through the foot circulatory system to 112 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: the lungs, make you cough, then you swallow them and 113 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: then they finally get to the place where they're supposed 114 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: to be, the small intestine, and they latch on and 115 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: they start sucking blood. Yeah. And hookworms are interesting tape 116 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: worms or hermaphroditic, but hookworms, like a lot of around worms. Uh, 117 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: they need to do it. Yeah, I was about to 118 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: say they like to who knows, maybe a little bit 119 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: both depending on the mood. They have to in order 120 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: to reproduce. So what you do is they get into 121 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: that into ston they find a lover. They take a lover. 122 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: Excuse me, Robert Lamb in here, they take a lover 123 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: and then they attach theirselves to the intestinal wall and say, 124 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: I'm here forever. I'm gonna I mean up to I've 125 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: seen up to thirty thousand eggs a day. Right, the 126 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: female will will lay thirty thousand fertilized eggs a day. Right, 127 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: And that's on the highest end. But you know, let's 128 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: say the low end is ten thousand, and say the 129 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: low end is a thousand. It's still a lot of eggs. 130 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,719 Speaker 1: And that's just one female worm. Right, you can have 131 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 1: dozens hundreds of these things. They found that um, the 132 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 1: a human can host up to about five hundred worms 133 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: and survive. You're not living a very fulfilling life, as 134 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 1: we'll see, but um, you you could have a number 135 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: of these worms all pumping out eggs and the worm 136 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: typically lives between one and five years in the comforts 137 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: of your gut. And they in um, you can also 138 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: be reinfected. And here's how right, So when the females 139 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: are spreading out a thousand to thirty thousand eggs, take 140 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: your pick. On a daily basis, you're pooping those eggs 141 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: out and if you're pooping in say, like uh like 142 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: by the bushes or in some sort of like outhouse. Yeah, 143 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: it's eighteen seventy five in West Virginia. You don't have 144 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: indoor plumbing, right, and let's say your outhouse isn't all 145 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: that great, or you're just again pooping in the bushes. 146 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: You are probably not wearing shoes. Those two things usually 147 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: go hand in hand. And so you're stepping in your 148 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: old fecal material that's still had eggs in it before 149 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: those eggs have since hatched into larva. Larva gone through 150 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:49,199 Speaker 1: the first two larval stages, entered the third infective larval stage, 151 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: and now it's crawling up into your foot again, and 152 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 1: you're what's called worm burden is expanded even further from 153 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: one or two to ten to twenty two up to hundreds. Yeah, 154 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: and that's if you just accidentally step in old pooh, 155 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: whether it's like spread around by animals walking around or 156 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: by the rain. Um, the chances of are exponentially more. 157 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: If you have a good old fashioned poop slinging fight. Sure, 158 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: you you know you don't want to get hit in 159 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: the mouth, but oh my god, UM, the other problem 160 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: that um well, it was part of the problem was that, uh, 161 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: that was the second version of that even was that 162 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: people were using poop as fertilizer. Now it's one thing 163 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: again you can't really catch I'm sure you can catch 164 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: some worms. I know trick gnosis is a problem for 165 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:44,559 Speaker 1: humans and that's a pork worm um. But you you 166 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: using say, horse manure is relatively safe compared to using 167 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: human manure as fertilizer in your field. That's a relatively 168 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 1: recent discovery. People were using human manure as fertilizer for very, 169 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: very very long time, and it was called night soil 170 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,199 Speaker 1: because at night, the guys would come out and clean 171 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: your your privy out and walk the muck, your poop, 172 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: your FeCO material down the street and collect more and 173 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: collect more, and then they would turn it into fertilizer. 174 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 1: Would say, release the night soil right before they dumped 175 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: it exactly, and it would be fertilizer and it'd be 176 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: great to make a crops grow, but it also just 177 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: contaminate your entire field with hookworms. And then little kids 178 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 1: would go out and work the field shoeless and they 179 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: would become infected from that too. So there were all 180 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: these really great opportunities for people to become infected by 181 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: hookworms by but there the hookworm habitat followed a certain 182 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,559 Speaker 1: a certain line from about West Virginia down to I 183 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: think East Texas. Uh, and beneath that line that was 184 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: the hookworm belt. And above it they used human manure 185 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,199 Speaker 1: for fertilizer too, but they didn't have hookworm. It was 186 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,599 Speaker 1: in the South that the hookworm was a problem, and 187 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: it was a big problem, it turned out. Yeah, it 188 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: just occurred to me. We walked right past maybe the 189 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 1: best band name of all time in here, what worm burden? 190 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Wormbirds is pretty good. Um. All right, well 191 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: that's the setup, uh before we hit you with a 192 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: social context. So let's take a little break here and 193 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: we'll talk a little bit more about my old kinfolk 194 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: right after this. Alright, so before we broke, we talked 195 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: about what the hookworm is and all the different, uh 196 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,839 Speaker 1: myriad ways which it could spread, from accidentally walking in 197 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,319 Speaker 1: poop to poop slanging fights, night soil nights released the 198 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 1: night soil rolling in it to ultimate rotically increase your 199 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: worm burden. Um. So you found this great article called 200 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: how a worm gave the South a bad name by 201 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: a woman named Rachel Newer. Um, it's on Nova. Yeah, 202 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: it was really good, and she is from the South 203 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: and kind of wrote it from that point of view. Um, 204 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,719 Speaker 1: and I get the feeling like, like me, she kind 205 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: of his long head to defend the American South as Hey, 206 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: we're not a bunch of dumb, lazy yokels. Because that 207 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: was you know, for a long time, um, and still 208 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: continuing today to a certain degree. Yeah, that notion kind 209 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: of exists that if you're from the South, you're kind 210 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,079 Speaker 1: of slow, you may be a little dim witted, you 211 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: may be lazy. And this was you know, for white folks, 212 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: Black folks, Native Americans, just something about the South made 213 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: you lazy and dumb, especially among the lower socioeconomic classes. 214 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: And this wasn't just like off the cuff um stereotyping. 215 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: It was rooted in fact, in reality, there was something 216 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: different about people of a of the lower socioeconomic classes 217 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: in the South. Specifically, if you put them side by 218 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: side among the same socioeconomic classes of the North, the 219 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: ones in the North would be like, let's shovel some 220 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: cold baby, and the ones in the South would be like, 221 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna lay here down next to my wheelbarrow 222 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: because I can't I can't get up. And so Southerners 223 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: were came to be seen as lazy, shiftless, couldn't be 224 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 1: trusted to do an honest day's work, and they just 225 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: thought it was part of the Southern character. Yeah. And 226 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: this wasn't just um a perception, like they literally lagged 227 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: behind the North in terms of productivity, um economic development. Uh. 228 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: And we'll you know, we'll talk about some of these 229 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: statistics as we go. Well, Plus the Civil War didn't 230 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: help anything either. Well, Now, that was obviously a big setback, right, 231 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: so it would have buried in the South, and it 232 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: would have been for any region right at level of 233 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: devastation and um um death. But coupled with their already 234 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: predisposition to this, that what what came to be called 235 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: the lazy germ Uh it was, it just set it 236 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: back even further. Yeah. And at one point in the 237 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: American South up to fort amazingly of the population, like 238 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: you said, from southeastern Texas to West Virginia and all 239 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: the way down, um was infected with hookworm. Yes, that's 240 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: a lot of people. I mean, it's obviously not a majority, 241 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: almost a majority that would have it would have been 242 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: a dumb Southerner. I mean, that's a lot of folks. 243 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: It is a lot of folks, And that was the 244 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: culprit mind this lazy shiftlessness among the poverty stricken Southern 245 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: poor and the rural. The poverty stricken, rural Southern poor 246 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: was apparently the majority of the South from the end 247 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: of the Civil War up until the I believe the 248 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: mid nineteen or mid twentieth century. Um, you were if 249 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: you were a Southerner, it was likely that you were 250 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: poor and did not live in the city until about 251 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: the forties. And there's a pretty clear demarcation line if 252 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: you did if you were wealthy in the South, or 253 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: you were lived in the city in the South in 254 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: the nineteenth and early twentieth century, you wore shoes, you 255 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: had bed pans um, and you could probably avoid this. 256 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: But if you didn't like those are they It says 257 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: in this article that it was almost impossible to avoid 258 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: if you were poor and lived in the South, because 259 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: you also didn't have very good sanitation. No, you were 260 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: just was just perfectly set up for you to keep 261 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: getting reinfected. Um. You know, every couple of years you 262 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: shed a dead hookworm. But in that time, you probably 263 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 1: would have taken on several more. All right, so what 264 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: does this mean if you get hookworm, like we said, 265 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: it's it's likely not going to directly kill you. Uh, 266 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: you might die from a common cold. Um, you might 267 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 1: die from malaria or typhoid fever, or you know, something 268 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: else may ultimately take you out because your body is 269 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: so weakened. But what it does in large part is 270 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: it causes an iron deficiency. Yeah, if you're a pregnant 271 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: woman or a kid, iron deficiency is really bad. Um, 272 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: if you're a child, you need that iron for your 273 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: brain development. So you know, not only would you get 274 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: like physical symptoms like stomach bloat. Uh what what was 275 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: the the I thing? Like this? The dull, fishy stair 276 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: fishy i'd stare. Yeah, just sort of like they're basically 277 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: described these kids just sort of vacant, right, just staring 278 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: off into space. Um. So you know some of those 279 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: are physical symptoms, but others were literally like a lower 280 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: i Q. Right. And so they believe that an Americans 281 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: came over as a result of the Atlantic slave trade, 282 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: that it was imported from Africa. So for centuries, generations 283 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: of kids, Um, we're being born in the South who 284 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: had there, Um, they were physically and developmentally stunted by 285 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 1: hookworm infections. Yeah. Sometimes girls wouldn't begin menstruation. Boys a 286 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: lot of times would not even hit their growth spurts. 287 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: And not only where they had lower i q s 288 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 1: and learning, uh, you know, development disabilities, but they were 289 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: smaller and weaker. Yeah, and then you combine this loss 290 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: of blood. So so apparently about a hundred worms in 291 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,880 Speaker 1: a in a normal adult will drink about a teaspoon 292 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,719 Speaker 1: a day, which doesn't sound like that much. But if 293 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 1: you couple it that level of iron deficiency with uh, 294 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: pre existing malnourishment due to poverty or the lack of 295 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,439 Speaker 1: availability of like good food, Uh, then it really becomes 296 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: a huge problem. And it goes from like this is 297 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: a problem to this is this is a catastrophic problem 298 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: that can keep an entire region of a country down 299 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: productive productively. Yeah. And it uh like a lot of 300 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: disease we've talked about, whether it's like famine or lack 301 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: of clean water. It's it's cyclical in nature, so it 302 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: would occur where there was poverty, and then it would 303 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: keep people from working to work their way out of poverty. 304 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: And it just kind of compounded on each other. Right, 305 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: and then think about slavery as well. Right, So, not 306 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 1: only have you been brought over to the US as 307 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,360 Speaker 1: a slave, you're being forced to work against your will 308 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: in these horrific conditions. You're also being forced to work 309 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: and live in the same conditions that promotes hookworm. So 310 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: you're feeling lazy and shiftless. Ts for you you're a slave. 311 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: Add that to your toil and misery, right, you know, 312 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: I could just it just keeps getting worse. All right, 313 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: So I think we've made it clear, big problem in 314 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 1: the South, but again, no one had any idea why. Yeah, 315 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:18,640 Speaker 1: it was just you know, the lazy South, and it's 316 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: you know, people have said that it literally set the 317 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: South back like decades and decades from the rest of 318 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: the country. No one knows what's going on. Until nineteen 319 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: o two, this dude came along and they should be 320 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 1: kind of a weird movie to market, but this would 321 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: be a good movie. I think the story of Charles 322 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:44,239 Speaker 1: Styles and hookworm, it's a big roller coaster, right all right, So, uh, 323 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: nineteen o two, this guy named Charles Styles comes along. 324 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 1: He's a zoologist from from New York, city, educated in Europe, 325 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 1: no less, so he played real well in the South yeah, which, 326 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: as you'll see, it was a bit of part of 327 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: the problem. Uh. And the Department of Agriculture said, hey, 328 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:02,959 Speaker 1: we need you to help these farmers down there keep 329 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: their animals healthy. So go down there and check things out. 330 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: And he was like he started to notice. He's like, 331 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 1: something's going on. These people are physically stunted. They're a 332 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,360 Speaker 1: little off. Yeah, they're mentally stunted. And I don't think 333 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: they're just dumb and lazy. So he started apparently he 334 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 1: sounds like one of these guys that was just had 335 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of it something, you know, 336 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 1: Like he wouldn't just say, you know, oh well everyone's 337 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: right about how it is down here. So he really 338 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 1: stuck to his instinct and realized that it was hookworm. Yeah. 339 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: He literally was the guy who discovered that that was 340 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: the problem exactly. I think he um he did that 341 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: by analyzing stool samples. So he basically just hung around 342 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 1: men's rooms. He said like, you're going to use that, 343 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: and they'd say, no, have at it. He just I 344 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: was educating by the way, exactly, and the people would 345 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: just walk away all right, is that I went down. 346 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 1: I don't know how it went down. I looked, Actually, 347 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: this guy is not the most celebrated person to ever 348 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: save an entire region from an infection. Um so, there's 349 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 1: not I didn't find a lot of background information on 350 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: him in particular. Um So, I have no idea how 351 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: it happened. I saw somewhere that said that he became 352 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: accidentally infected, and that's how he understood. Didn't see it 353 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: backed up anywhere else. I have no idea how this 354 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: man came to say moment right, because again, you gotta 355 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 1: you have to be trading in fecal material here. So 356 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: like this guy had his hands on human poop at 357 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: some point, right, or thought to look there? I'm not sure. 358 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: Maybe he was in a good old fashioned poop slang. Inte. 359 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: It makes the most sense that he was. He's like 360 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: something's on to god, Oh it's a worm. Uh. The 361 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,880 Speaker 1: point is, though he was not well received, local doctors 362 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: didn't want to hear it. They would listen. They dismissed 363 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,199 Speaker 1: him as you know, this this carpetbag in Yankee from Europe, 364 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 1: who you know, educated in Europe, who's down here telling us, 365 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 1: you know, he's he's an animal expert, and he's telling 366 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: us about our poop making us lazy. Yeah, crazy Europe 367 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 1: your animal expert. Yeah. They really didn't listen to him much. 368 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: So he was like, fine, I'll just go to John 369 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: de rock Feller and tell him I'm going to tell 370 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: on you. That's basically what happened. Yeah, Rockefeller was this 371 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: is at the time when income inequality was about at 372 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: the levels it was now, and the wealthy industrialists of 373 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 1: the age were really really worried that they were going 374 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: to have the social order overthrown by angry people, so 375 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 1: they invented philanthropy. Right. Yeah, this is back when they 376 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: worried about that kind of thing, right, And Rockefeller said, well, 377 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: we can't just we can't do anything to actually support 378 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 1: the problems that capitalism creates, because then we'll just be 379 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: drawing attention to the fact that there are major problems 380 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: with capitalist system. What else can I support? And he 381 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: heard about Styles, and Styles took a meeting with Rockefeller 382 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: and some of his his higher up friends, and apparently 383 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: at that meeting they closed the deal, like we're funding 384 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: this thing with the million bucks right out of the gate, 385 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: which is about twenty six million today and they set 386 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 1: up the Rockefeller Sanitary Commission for the Eradication of hookworm disease. 387 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: That's right. But um, despite the fact that they were 388 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 1: trying to help Southerners, um, not only with a medical issue, 389 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: but to advance themselves as a people. Um again, the 390 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 1: Southerners A they didn't want a light being shown on 391 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: this problem because it's gross, uh, and it has a stigma. 392 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,360 Speaker 1: But they didn't want um again. They didn't want these 393 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 1: Yankees coming down there and saying they can fix you, 394 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: you know. And Rockefeller said t s. He said, I've 395 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: got an oyster edition named after me, maybe the best 396 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: oyster dish besides raw. I'm glad you said that. Uh. 397 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: Should we take a break? Yeah, all right, we're gonna 398 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 1: come back and talk a little bit about the road 399 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: to eradication right after this whom in your body food, 400 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: don't do you good woman, your body and your food, 401 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: don't do your Lona around up, come in a night 402 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: name and we're back and Chuck, we had a not 403 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: just a jingle that was a real blues song. Yeah, 404 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: people are like, man, somebody really made an authentic old 405 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: blues sounding jingle just for this episode. No, that was 406 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: the legendary Blind Blake with his song Hookworm Blues, which 407 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: was a real song about the hookworm blues. And I 408 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: think blind Blake came up with that song in nineteen six, 409 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: I believe. And the fact that he is singing about 410 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: hookworms um starting in the nineteen twenties represents, or it 411 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: just goes to show, like how much progress was made 412 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: between the time the Rockefeller Sanitary Commission was set up 413 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: and blind Blake had his number one hit, his number 414 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: one and in between that time for for promoting this 415 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: idea that there was such thing as hookworm and that 416 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: it was a real problem. Because when the Rockefeller Sanitary 417 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: Commission was set up in nineteen nine, the South was 418 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 1: still in face clean the groups of reconstruction. It wasn't 419 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: the reconstruction era anymore is the Jim Crow South, but 420 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: it was still really far behind as a result of 421 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: the war, and there were not a lot of public 422 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: services available. So one thing the rock Feller Sanitary Commission 423 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 1: had going for it was money, and then it was 424 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,239 Speaker 1: going to be money invested in public health, all right, 425 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: So this is how they went about it. Uh, it's nine. 426 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: And like you said, they Rockefeller donated a million bucks, 427 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: which is how much today? It's pretty good. Um, And 428 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: they realized, well, I don't assume this was kind of 429 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: a purposeful move, um that they got a Southerner on 430 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,719 Speaker 1: board to kind of help lead the charge. Definitely. Um. 431 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: This person named Wickliff Rose, great name. If there's a 432 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 1: hero of this story, it's him. If you asked me, 433 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: you think so not what's his face? No? Styles? Yeah, alright, 434 00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: I mean he did some great work. It was good. 435 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: But Whyecliffe Rose was the one who uh Wyecliffe. That's 436 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: how I pronounced that he was the one who made 437 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: it happen, because because Styles could have discovered hookworm all 438 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: day long, but if he didn't have the personality to 439 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: write cure people, then it doesn't really help. So this 440 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 1: would be Matthew McConaughey then in the movie. Yeah so 441 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 1: and and Paul Giamatti And this is McConaughey coming in now. 442 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: Uh So, they get this southerner east from Nashville on 443 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 1: board to run the organization. And they had this approach 444 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: where they would go to a town that they would 445 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: go to a town in the South with these doctors. 446 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,239 Speaker 1: But before they did that, they would start this um 447 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: campaign like an awareness campaign, um in schools to get 448 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: and as I think we've talked about in other things, 449 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: you get the kids on board in schools, and they 450 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: kind of helped get the parents on board, and they 451 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: started this campaign to tell children about what's going on, 452 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: and the kids would in turn hopefully go home and 453 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: tell their parents like, you know, my pa, I ain't dumb, 454 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: I got the hookworm. Look my poop is wiggling away exactly, 455 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: and um it was you know, they had a challenge 456 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: in front of him because, um, you know, you gotta 457 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: poop in a bag or something and give it to 458 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: your teacher. Your teacher and entire schools, these one room 459 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: schoolhouses were infected. And this this one kid they talked 460 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: to later on said, uh, well he was a kid 461 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: at the time. Well yeah, he was scared, Like he said, 462 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: he had constipation for a week. He didn't want to 463 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: like you didn't want to have hookworm. I don't want 464 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: my teacher to know me in this way. Yeah, pretty 465 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: much school sample. Um boy, never mind. But that was 466 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: but that was the whole setup, right, yeah, I mean 467 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: like there was there was there was a public information 468 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: campaign that was part of it. There was community involvement. 469 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: That was a really big thing that ay Cliff Rose started. 470 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: He said, we can't do this without the support of 471 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: the local community. So they built networks with like doctors 472 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: and local health boards. They got the schools involved, um, 473 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: and it became a community thing, right. Yeah. So once 474 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: you have the public on board, they would set up 475 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: these clinics, um not permanent, these kind of temporary clinics, 476 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: and they would it was kind of a big deal 477 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: in the town. It said that they would treat it 478 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: like an event and people would bring picnics. I don't 479 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: know that's a wise thing to do at a hookworm clinic, 480 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: but they would bring picnics. And it says in here 481 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: that they some people even wanted to get married in 482 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: the hookworm tent, and I was like, that seems weird 483 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: and kind of like kitchy. But then I also was like, 484 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: I bet a lot of these people have never seen 485 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: the tent before, so they were like one chance to stay. Yeah, yeah, 486 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: can we get married in the hookworm tent? And so um, 487 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: there'd be this public information campaign leading up to the 488 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: day of the hookworm Day you can just call it, 489 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: and right young a young doctor would ride into town 490 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: on horseback and he had a microscope and everything he would. Um, 491 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: there was a couple of parts to it. There was, um, 492 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: the sanitation lecture, which was, here's how you guys are 493 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: getting hookworm. Here's how you build what's called the sanitary privy. Yeah, 494 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: like they couldn't give him indoor plumbing, but they could 495 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: at least teach them how to have a nice enough 496 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: out house, right, And there's some very very simple principle. 497 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: One is like don't don't dig your latrine down until 498 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: you hit groundwater, don't let it go out into the stream, 499 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: make sure animals can't get into it, and like spread 500 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: it around a good door, make sure your feet aren't 501 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: standing in the same pit that you're pooping in. It's 502 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: really basic stuff. But like that was a big part 503 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: of it, right, Um. And then also explaining how the 504 00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: infection process worked. Right, So because they understood very early on, 505 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: um that yes, you can get rid of hook worms 506 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: fairly easily, but you can also get reinfected fairly easy. 507 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: So they had to get that part across as well. Yeah, 508 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 1: and like again, you can't buy everyone's shoes, but you 509 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: can say maybe don't play near the outhouse. You gotta 510 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: stop the poop slinging fights all together. Yeah, they just 511 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: have to be gone the thing in the past. That's 512 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: the number one thing. They're part of the salad days. 513 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: And then this the sample analysis would begin, and the 514 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: poor doctor would just look with his microscope at each 515 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 1: poop sample and say past fail, pass fail, well, and 516 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: if the bag was vibrating, they didn't even have to look. Yeah, 517 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: like that that cheese in Sardinia. I think that with 518 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: the maggots, the maggot cheese. Didn't we talk about a 519 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: maggot episode. Surely we did. We're both so um. If 520 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: you were found to be infected with worms, you would 521 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: get very simple um pharmaceutical treatment, really simple. Yeah. There's 522 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: this extraordinarily toxic stuff called thyme all yeah t H 523 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: Y M O L Yeah. And it would kill your worms. Yeah, 524 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: and it could also kill you if you took it 525 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: with the wrong combination of foods or and or alcoholic beverages. 526 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: You wanted to avoid alcohol and fats and oils on 527 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: the day you took it. And then you would follow 528 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: your dose of thyme all with epsom salt, which were 529 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: to remove the thyme all from your body. Yeah, and uh, 530 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: they said at some point, you know what, that stuff 531 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: is super toxic, so why don't we replace that with 532 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: something called carbon tectric chloride um That must be much better? Now, 533 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: it was also very lethal, I guess. I just you know, 534 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: at the time didn't have anything that wasn't also dangerous 535 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: to take, right, And that did the trick and the 536 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: fact that the EPSOM salt would get rid of it 537 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: I think helped quite a bit. Yeah, So the great 538 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: end of this story would be if the Rockefeller's money 539 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: was well spent and five to ten years later they 540 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: eradicated hookworm in the South. But that didn't happen. Um. 541 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: It was successful in a lot of ways. Awareness kind 542 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 1: of be in the chief way, but as we said 543 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:22,320 Speaker 1: a few times, reinfection is kind of the biggest problem. 544 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,800 Speaker 1: Like they might have gotten rid of a lot of hookworm, 545 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 1: only you know, to have these kids who couldn't help 546 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: but have their poop slanging fights, uh, and then get 547 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: hookworm all over again. Exactly. And so but if you 548 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: go and read the Rockefeller's um the Rockefeller Foundations um 549 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: rundown of that program, they basically say it was this 550 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 1: one guy who lobbied hard to like just move on. 551 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 1: Whatever it was. Somebody from the Rockefeller founder said, we're 552 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 1: done with this. We've done our work right. And they had, 553 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: like you said, in a certain way, they had set 554 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: up some of the earliest public health networks in the South. 555 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 1: They had convinced the South that there was such thing 556 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 1: as hookworm and that it was a big problem, and 557 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: that if they were able to get rid of it, 558 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 1: they could um catch up to the rest of the country. 559 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: And they said, now the local doctors, now the local 560 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,319 Speaker 1: health clinics can take over from here. But again, yeah, 561 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,800 Speaker 1: it wasn't until the forties that that hookworm really started 562 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: to be eradicated, and it had very little to do 563 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,320 Speaker 1: with the pharmaceutical treatments. It was the fact that indoor 564 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 1: plumbing became prevalent or I mean it was literally like 565 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:34,320 Speaker 1: better food, better plumbing, more shoes. The end of share cropping, 566 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 1: which was a type of um agricultural system that kept 567 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,320 Speaker 1: people poor and kept people in the fields. So it 568 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:47,240 Speaker 1: was it kept the same unsanitary conditions for hookworm infection 569 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: right there. What did you call it when they would 570 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: dump the poop night soil? Yeah, no more night soil dumping. Uh. 571 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: Mechanization started and it was kind of a combination of 572 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: all these Just the mo dternization of the American South 573 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,360 Speaker 1: is really what ended it. Um. And you know, the 574 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 1: proof is kind of in the pudding in that today 575 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,359 Speaker 1: in conditions similar to the American South a hundred years 576 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: ago plus in other parts of the world, it's still 577 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 1: a really big problem. It is a really problem, apparently 578 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 1: something like I saw up to um. In this article 579 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 1: The War on Hookworms by Andy Borrowitz, he says that 580 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: up to something like seven hundred and forty million people 581 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:35,359 Speaker 1: around the world are thought to have hookworm infections, right, Yeah, 582 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 1: about forty fifty million of which are pregnant women, which 583 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 1: is you know, obviously one of the uh, one of 584 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: the worst. Like we said, kids and pregnant women is 585 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 1: one of the worst kind of people to get to 586 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: end the saddest, right and uh, mainly because it increases 587 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 1: your chances of dying during childbirth because of anemia. Right. Um. 588 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: So it is a huge problem around the world. There's 589 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 1: there there's this kind of moniker for um hookworm infection 590 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: along with certain other infections. They're lumped together under the 591 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: umbrella of neglected tropical diseases. And the reason they're called 592 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,359 Speaker 1: that is because this is stuff that like you can 593 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: easily get rid of if you alleviate poverty in the 594 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:25,359 Speaker 1: the developing world. But we're not doing that, and it's 595 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 1: out of neglect basically. Yeah, it's not. It's not the 596 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,760 Speaker 1: kind of thing where you can just invent the vaccine 597 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,359 Speaker 1: and it's gone again because of the reinfection, because these 598 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,359 Speaker 1: people are still poor and still in those conditions. Um, 599 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,440 Speaker 1: we're talking at some of the highest rates are Sierra Leone, 600 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 1: Democratic Republic of Congo, Nigeria, Ethiopia, India, Venezuela, Indonesia. UM. 601 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 1: Also interestingly, UM, China in Brazil, which kind of surprised me. Yeah, 602 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,879 Speaker 1: well it's the same thing as like the South back 603 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,279 Speaker 1: in the day, where you have very very um or 604 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 1: well off urban areas and very very very poor rural areas. 605 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 1: Same thing in parts of China and Brazil today. Yeah, 606 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: and I think another reason, UM, at least this article 607 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: you sent kind of makes the argument that it's uh 608 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,280 Speaker 1: still a problem. In fact, since nine it's declined globally 609 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 1: by just five Yes, despite the fact that something like 610 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 1: four hundred and fifty million people have been treated for hookworm, 611 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,759 Speaker 1: But that declines it's only gone down five percent. And 612 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 1: all what that's saying is as long as there's the 613 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,480 Speaker 1: unsanitary conditions, there's going to be hookworm, right, So we 614 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: have to alleviate the unsanitary conditions, and you do that 615 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 1: by alleviating poverty. And there's a group of of foundations 616 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, World Health Organization, 617 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:51,239 Speaker 1: they've gotten together to create this End seven program and 618 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 1: that's they're trying to end seven of the neglected tropical 619 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:59,360 Speaker 1: diseases by and hookworm is one of them. And there's treatments, 620 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 1: there's it's really easy to get rid of hookworm. There's 621 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: actually a couple of ironic treatments for hookworm. One medication 622 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 1: for getting rid of hookworm UM prevents the hookworms from 623 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 1: creating a t P, which is like an energy source, 624 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 1: so they become lethargic and die, just like they make 625 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 1: you lethargic. The other medication, UM attaches the to the 626 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 1: hookworms intestines and prevents the hookworm from absorbing nutrients, so 627 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 1: they die of malnourishment, just like they make people malnourished. 628 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's ironic or if they're like, 629 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: we're going to get these things back, you know. So, 630 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:39,279 Speaker 1: like I was saying a minute ago, part of the 631 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,759 Speaker 1: big problem uh with eradicating this is that it's not, um, 632 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 1: it's not a big news item. Like you know, a 633 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 1: lot like Ebola comes along, it grabs all the news 634 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you have a lot of funding. Um, 635 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,759 Speaker 1: hookworm isn't you know. I don't want to say a 636 00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: sexy disease because that's gross, but it's not. It's kind 637 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:05,320 Speaker 1: of just off forgotten, and so they don't have a 638 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 1: lot of funding. I'm glad that gates Is are involved 639 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,760 Speaker 1: because that, you know, that makes it much more high profile. 640 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,400 Speaker 1: But um, you know, it's still a big, big issue, 641 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 1: and uh hopefully you know this will help raise a 642 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 1: little bit of awareness. Sure well, if if hookworm is 643 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,239 Speaker 1: eradecated by twenty we'll have played a rather large role 644 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: in that. Uh. But now we have a final twist. Yeah, 645 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: there's this really great quote from the sixties from a 646 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:38,279 Speaker 1: Rockefeller um parasitic worm specialist who said that, um, we 647 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: needed the eventual helmntic defaundation of man saying getting rid 648 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:48,640 Speaker 1: of worms from the human race entirely right. And he 649 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: said that for only in a society made up of 650 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,919 Speaker 1: parasite free individuals. Well, we know of what the human 651 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 1: being is capable. Basically saying like, we have no idea 652 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 1: how much we're being held act as a as an 653 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 1: entire race, Yeah, by worms, So we need to get 654 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,720 Speaker 1: rid of them. But there's this growing body of research, 655 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 1: chuck that's showing that we actually need to be infected 656 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:16,520 Speaker 1: by hookworms. It looks like, well, if it can potentially 657 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 1: treat a few types of disease. UM, I don't. I 658 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 1: wouldn't say that humans need it, but right now there's 659 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: some experimental research going on and specific to hookworms, it 660 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 1: seems that it might help asthma. Okay, Um, there are 661 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,920 Speaker 1: other worms that they're using that could help with everything 662 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 1: from ulstra to colitis, to Crohn's disease to multiple sclerosis. 663 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: But when it comes to the little hookworm, they think, um, 664 00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:50,360 Speaker 1: it might help asthma. Uh. They're not experimenting on humans 665 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: yet the United States, I don't think. I think only 666 00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,480 Speaker 1: in the United Kingdom right now are they using this 667 00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,960 Speaker 1: in humans. Um. But because it's hookworm, that side effects 668 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,359 Speaker 1: are basically all the things we've been talking about. Um, 669 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,400 Speaker 1: you know, every everything bad about the hookworm is going 670 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 1: to happen to you. Right. The thinking behind it though, 671 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,120 Speaker 1: because that makes zero sense, Like why would that help 672 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 1: is that for some reason worm parasitic worms prevent the 673 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,759 Speaker 1: human immune system from going overboard somehow, right, and that 674 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 1: the reason why we have autoimmune diseases like multiple sclerosis 675 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 1: or um Crohn's disease are because of a lack of 676 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 1: parasitic worms in our bodies. Because we've eradicated them. So 677 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,239 Speaker 1: now these other diseases that are autoimmune diseases have been 678 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:46,560 Speaker 1: able to rise. So it kind of is a like 679 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:48,920 Speaker 1: you said, a weird little twist. Yeah, we'll see. I 680 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,920 Speaker 1: mean right now, they're mainly working in mice and rats. Um. 681 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,040 Speaker 1: But like anytime you're working with mice and rats, it's 682 00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: can't exactly extrapolate that onto humans. So we shall see, 683 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:00,759 Speaker 1: it's only one way to find out for you, and 684 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:05,239 Speaker 1: I volunteer. Well they you know, I did see some 685 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,839 Speaker 1: experiments not for this, but um, when they were doing 686 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 1: hookworm experiments period, they would infect people with hookworm and 687 00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,799 Speaker 1: you know volunteers. Yeah, and again, I mean like, it's 688 00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: not like a hookworm's gonna kill you. And if you 689 00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 1: are not going to get reinfected because you wear shoes 690 00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 1: and use like a toilet with running water. Um, it's sure. 691 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:33,680 Speaker 1: Why not you do it for science and money? Yes? 692 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,200 Speaker 1: Are you got anything else? I do not what we 693 00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,320 Speaker 1: want to recommend the articles how a Worm gave the 694 00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,440 Speaker 1: South Bad Name by Rachel Newer and war on Hookworms 695 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 1: from Andy Borrowitz. They're both well worth reading. Uh and Uh, 696 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,000 Speaker 1: since I said they're well worth reading, it's time for 697 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:57,480 Speaker 1: listening to mail. All right, I'm gonna call this uh 698 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,920 Speaker 1: follow up from a very sweet couple I met at 699 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:06,879 Speaker 1: the airport. I think I talked about them after our 700 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,600 Speaker 1: one I think the Midwestern Tour UM or No, no, no, 701 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,960 Speaker 1: it was Louisiana New Orleans show. I met this very 702 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,960 Speaker 1: nice couple who had been to the show. Um. They 703 00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:22,000 Speaker 1: were I think one of our more veteran and wise 704 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:28,200 Speaker 1: UM listeners and show attendee's. They were wonderful. Uh, and 705 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,440 Speaker 1: they stopped me in the airport. We talked for a 706 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,680 Speaker 1: little bit, and this is from them. Hey, Chuck, I 707 00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:35,880 Speaker 1: wanted to follow up after the show in New Orleans. 708 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,400 Speaker 1: We talked to you at the airport while we were 709 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,560 Speaker 1: waiting for our flight back to Minneapolis. You were very 710 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,560 Speaker 1: gracious talking to us when we had clearly interrupted you 711 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,839 Speaker 1: on your way to do or get something, probably head 712 00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:50,879 Speaker 1: to poop. We told you our new hobby was going 713 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:55,319 Speaker 1: and following you guys around the country. Uh, and making 714 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:59,800 Speaker 1: vacations that out of your shows on tour, remember that, 715 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,319 Speaker 1: m But we haven't made it to a live show since. Um, 716 00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:05,719 Speaker 1: we haven't done a lot of shows since it. Uh, 717 00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,319 Speaker 1: that's true. Well, we've done a handful. We've both been 718 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,560 Speaker 1: slacking both parties. Yes, but we're gonna hit the road 719 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,120 Speaker 1: for some shows later this year, by the way, Uh, 720 00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:16,480 Speaker 1: stay tuned for that. So you and Josh did, however, 721 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,640 Speaker 1: inspire us in our new venture. We started a podcast 722 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,800 Speaker 1: just before we left to drive to Alaska, and May Joyce, 723 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,759 Speaker 1: who is the lady in the couple, UM, downloaded a 724 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,520 Speaker 1: bunch of podcasts on how to make a podcast. By 725 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,160 Speaker 1: the time we got back to Minnesota, we were well 726 00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,799 Speaker 1: on our way to starting Tall Tales and Travel, our 727 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:40,360 Speaker 1: podcast about adventures in the outdoors. Uh. Lair and I 728 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,400 Speaker 1: don't know if it's l A R R E. And 729 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,280 Speaker 1: I can't remember if it was Lair or Larry Layers 730 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,800 Speaker 1: probably short for Larry. Maybe it was short for Lawrence, 731 00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,719 Speaker 1: so it's doubly short. I'm gonna call him Lair just 732 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 1: l Uh. He has decades worth of stories which have 733 00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:57,600 Speaker 1: mostly taken place in Alaska. He's been a bush pilot, 734 00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,800 Speaker 1: charter boat captain, a police officer, and general outdoorsman to 735 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,200 Speaker 1: name a few adventure settings. Yeah, that's a layer. If 736 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,279 Speaker 1: I've ever heard on Lair. It does most of the 737 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:08,880 Speaker 1: talking and Joyce does most of the behind the scenes tasks. 738 00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:11,640 Speaker 1: It's a division of labor that we've mastered over the 739 00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:15,239 Speaker 1: last thirty odd years together. We have a website, Tall 740 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,320 Speaker 1: Tales and travel dot Com where we post photos and 741 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,239 Speaker 1: videos from Lair's huge archive. Now that we're up and running, 742 00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,840 Speaker 1: we'll be putting more work into sorting and sharing the 743 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,879 Speaker 1: collection more regularly. By the way, we used square space. 744 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,879 Speaker 1: Thanks for the tip. Nice anyway, guys, were just writing 745 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,440 Speaker 1: into thank you for the inspiration to let you know 746 00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,399 Speaker 1: that we haven't given up on seeing you live again. 747 00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,640 Speaker 1: We're going to keep our ears open and here we're 748 00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,480 Speaker 1: stuff you should know will be up next. Plan an 749 00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:42,920 Speaker 1: adventure to see you there. All the best that is 750 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:47,359 Speaker 1: Joyce Olsen and Lair Broward and again check it out 751 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:51,839 Speaker 1: at um Tall Tales and Travel dot com or at 752 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,719 Speaker 1: Tall Tales and Travel dot libson l I B s 753 00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,360 Speaker 1: y N dot com and they were just really sweet 754 00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,239 Speaker 1: and nice and supportive. And the notion that these bowl 755 00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:03,880 Speaker 1: in their retirement would follow us around the country just 756 00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,359 Speaker 1: kind of knock my socks off. Yeah. So I haven't 757 00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,520 Speaker 1: listened to show yet because it just came in, but 758 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:10,640 Speaker 1: I'm going to give it a whirl. Yeah, thanks you guys, 759 00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:14,839 Speaker 1: and congratulations. It's pretty awesome. Um and uh, I guess 760 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,920 Speaker 1: if we've inspired you, like Joyce and Lair to do 761 00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,240 Speaker 1: something neat, let us know about it. You can tweet 762 00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,600 Speaker 1: to us at s y s K podcast. You can 763 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,120 Speaker 1: join us on Facebook dot com slash Stuff you Should Know. 764 00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,640 Speaker 1: You could send us an email. This stuff podcast at 765 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,120 Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot com and has always joined us 766 00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:33,040 Speaker 1: at our home on the web with Stuff you Should 767 00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:38,360 Speaker 1: Know dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production 768 00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,320 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my Heart Radio, 769 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,520 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 770 00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.