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Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt and

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Speaker 1: today we're talking practical and beautiful investing advice with Callie Cox.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it is time to dive in deep on

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Speaker 2: investing during turbulent times. Joel, and we are fortunate to

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Speaker 2: be speaking with Callie Cox, who is a part of

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Speaker 2: the Ritholtz Wealth management team. Before that, we met her

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Speaker 2: back in the day when she was with Ally invest

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Speaker 2: E Toro. After that, and now she's also the author

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Speaker 2: of Optimistic Cali, her newsletter where she seeks to deliver

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Speaker 2: sane and rational advice to every day investors just like us,

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Speaker 2: just like you and me.

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Speaker 1: Man.

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Speaker 2: She works tirelessly day and day out to make investors

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Speaker 2: feel confident and informed about their money. And we've got

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Speaker 2: a lot to talk about when it comes to investing.

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Speaker 2: Folks don't realize that investing like it seems like all

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Speaker 2: we talk about, but not to the level at which

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Speaker 2: we're going to talk about it today. We're gonna, I

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Speaker 2: don't know, We're really gonna get into it with you.

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Speaker 2: And I'm excited for this conversation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm psyched too. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Of course. Yeah, you you eat breathe and sleep it.

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Speaker 1: We I don't know, we think about a lot more

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Speaker 1: than just investing, but so were you're curious to pick

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Speaker 1: your brain because we're in interesting times right now. First though,

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Speaker 1: we have to ask you what your craft beer equivalent is.

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Speaker 1: What do you explore John, even though obviously you're investing

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Speaker 1: solidly for your future.

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Speaker 3: Well, I told y'all, and so the audience knows. I've

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Speaker 3: thought a lot about this, But I my husband and

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Speaker 3: I spent a lot of money on food and wine,

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Speaker 3: which is a pretty typical answer. I feel like you

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Speaker 3: get a lot of foodies. But you know, with us,

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Speaker 3: we became obsessed with wine after we went to NAPA

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty one. Of course, during the pandemic, a

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Speaker 3: lot of us had nothing better to do than drink

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Speaker 3: us So as y'all probably leaned more into bore that out. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's true. It's true. As you guys lean more into beer,

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Speaker 3: we leaned more into wine, and after NAPA we were hooked.

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Speaker 3: So we're not we're not serious wine collectors, but we

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Speaker 3: do like exploring different wines and we love just you know,

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Speaker 3: eating out and you know, exploring all the different restaurants

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Speaker 3: in Charlotte, and I love to cook. I really like

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Speaker 3: getting quality product and you know, cooking at home too,

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Speaker 3: So I feel like that's our niche. You know, where

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Speaker 3: we lean in when we're leaning out on other things

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Speaker 3: like cars. I drive a nine year old camera. It's

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Speaker 3: not there are areas that we lean into, areas we

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Speaker 3: lean out music.

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Speaker 1: I love it. I will say the wine habit too.

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Speaker 1: While it can be very expensive similar to graft beer,

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Speaker 1: it's not as bad if you're drinking it at home

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Speaker 1: and you're making your own food, right, I mean, if

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Speaker 1: you're going out, the markup on bottles when you visit

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Speaker 1: a nice restaurant is significant. So yeah, drinking that bottle

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Speaker 1: at home is going to save you money.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's absolutely true. There even and I know this

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Speaker 3: differs from state to state, but they're even bring your

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Speaker 3: own beverage restaurants, bring your own wine restaurants. And we

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Speaker 3: have a few good shops in Charlotte where you can

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Speaker 3: go and buy wine at retail and they'll serve it

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Speaker 3: with you, serve it to you with your dinner.

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Speaker 2: But then but then you charge that corkage fee, and

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Speaker 2: that just to me feels like a total slap in

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Speaker 2: the face. They're like, sure, you can bring your fancy

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Speaker 2: stuff from home, but we're going to charge you to

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Speaker 2: open it.

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Speaker 3: You gotta find a place that doesn't have a corkage fee.

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Speaker 1: I know those exist. This is why Calli brings her

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Speaker 1: own corkscrew keeps and just pulls it out as neat.

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Speaker 1: She's got a little spout.

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Speaker 2: They're like, ma'am, what that spout coming out of the

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Speaker 2: bottom of your of your bag there, crickler, she's filling

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Speaker 2: her glass up under the table. Callie, what is one

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Speaker 2: winery next time I happen to go to Napa or

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Speaker 2: Sonoma that we got to check out.

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Speaker 1: You're a fan of.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so Chapole very good. They are a national distributors,

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Speaker 3: so I can find a few of Chapoli's bottles in Charlotte.

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Speaker 3: So that's that's an accessible one that also has a

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Speaker 3: really good tour, really good wine. We also went to

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Speaker 3: one called Barnett. It's in the mountains of Napa, and

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Speaker 3: Mountain wine has a more like smoky, almost like I

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Speaker 3: don't even know how scotchy, kind of scotchy like earthyy

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Speaker 3: taste to it because the soil is a little different.

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Speaker 3: I think the grapes have to struggle more. But Barnett

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Speaker 3: has an incredible wine called the Rattlesnake, and it's a

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Speaker 3: little more expensive. It's definitely a splurge for us. But

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Speaker 3: the gosh, the mouth feel, I hate saying that. The

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Speaker 3: mouth feel and the experience of it is just really

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Speaker 3: really complex.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm speaking about language a winery up in the mountains.

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Speaker 2: That sounds incredible.

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Speaker 1: So struggling great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the views literally wrote that down for some

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Speaker 2: time or the future when we might head out there.

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Speaker 2: But you know, I didn't mention your title there at

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Speaker 2: Red Holts. You are the chief market strategist. What is like,

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Speaker 2: what do you actually do? And uh, I've also got

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Speaker 2: to think that regardless of what you do, that your

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Speaker 2: job might be a little more difficult in times like these.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So I get a lot of questions about that,

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Speaker 3: and I totally understand them because they are strategists in

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Speaker 3: every industry, and you know, a strategists, we do strategy.

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Speaker 3: What does that even mean? I try to describe my

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Speaker 3: role as a resident market NERD type role, and of course,

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Speaker 3: you know I think about markets a lot, I eat, sleep,

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Speaker 3: breathe investing. I know our portfolio is inside and out.

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Speaker 3: I talk to clients all the time about how their

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Speaker 3: money is invested and how how market moves are affecting

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Speaker 3: their money. But in a way, it's also a strategic

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Speaker 3: comms role. I'm telling a story, for lack of a

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Speaker 3: better phrase, about what's happening in markets, and you know

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Speaker 3: why that matters to everyday investors like you and me,

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Speaker 3: and thinking about how to tell that story to a

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Speaker 3: wide range of audiences.

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Speaker 1: At one point recently, so you write a blog, which

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Speaker 1: is part of where you do some of the storytelling,

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Speaker 1: and you wrote practical advice is a good foundation, but

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Speaker 1: everybody needs a bit of beauty. And that's just interesting

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Speaker 1: to think that, Oh I need beauty inside of my

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Speaker 1: investment portfolio. So I'm curious, why what do you mean

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Speaker 1: by that? And what does beautiful investing look like?

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Speaker 3: Well I got thinking of this because I read a

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Speaker 3: blog from Morgan Housel. So I can't take credit for this.

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Speaker 3: I can't take credit for all of this, but Morgan

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Speaker 3: wrote a really great blog about magazine architects or architects

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Speaker 3: that create these beautiful buildings, ones that you see in

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Speaker 3: magazines and architects digest, you know, ones that we all

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Speaker 3: drool over because we don't have to live in them,

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Speaker 3: but they're really not functional. You know, they don't have

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Speaker 3: they don't have the size of the garage that you

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Speaker 3: need to like actually you know, keep your car there,

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Speaker 3: or you don't. You don't have the right functionality to

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Speaker 3: actually live there. And I think the concept of that

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Speaker 3: is true for a lot of different areas of our lives.

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Speaker 3: And one area that people never talk about that for

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Speaker 3: is investing, because all we get is stay invested, stay

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Speaker 3: the course, put your money in an index fund, and

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Speaker 3: hold it, hold it until you die type advice. And

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Speaker 3: you know, I agree with that. I think it's hard

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Speaker 3: to make the argument against it. But I also think

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Speaker 3: that there's just an ocean of nuancewe queen staying invested

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Speaker 3: and you know, you know, kind of being haphazard with

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Speaker 3: your money, and that's really important. That's something we talk

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Speaker 3: about a lot with our clients here, the fact that

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Speaker 3: you know, you have to stay invested. You're investing for decades,

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Speaker 3: but we want to make sure that you stay invested,

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Speaker 3: and there are things like you can do that kind

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Speaker 3: of go against that traditional logic. But I also think

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Speaker 3: about it in my own world because like, yes, I

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Speaker 3: talk about the benefits of index funds, but even I

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Speaker 3: have targets in my portfolio. I sell according to those targets,

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Speaker 3: and you know, I am a little bit more active active,

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Speaker 3: even though I'd consider myself a long term investor looking

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Speaker 3: at retirement.

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Speaker 2: What that does it just allows room for humanity and

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Speaker 2: like kind of going back to the Morgan househole analogy, like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: the reason those look spaces look cool is because they don't.

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Speaker 2: Actually they couldn't actually house somebody in real life, or

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Speaker 2: the practical needs of a family with a toddler running

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Speaker 2: around with sharp edges everywhere, whatever it might be. And

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Speaker 2: I think what you're speaking to is the abilit to

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Speaker 2: maybe be a bit flexible when it comes to our portfolios,

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Speaker 2: as opposed to completely grinning it, bearing it, never checking it,

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Speaker 2: because it's really hard to ignore all the news that's

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Speaker 2: popping up on our phones that we hear people talk about.

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Speaker 2: On that note, can you speak to the current state

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Speaker 2: of things? I guess all the volatility that we've felt.

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Speaker 2: It feels like we lived a couple of years just

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Speaker 2: in the past few months. Can you catch us up

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Speaker 2: to speed on let's say, the Trump the initial Trump bump,

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Speaker 2: but then the subsequent deflation. Why all this has happened?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, how much time do we have here? Where

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Speaker 3: do I start?

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Speaker 1: Seriously, this is a podcast, so many hours?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we can go as long as it takes, right, So,

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Speaker 3: I guess where we'd have to start is in the

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Speaker 3: middle of last year. And I think it's important to

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Speaker 3: understand where the economy was before we headed into this

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Speaker 3: year and had to digest all these policy changes. But

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Speaker 3: actually you'd probably have to back up to COVID, but

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to do that. Interest rates are actually

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Speaker 3: quite high right now. They've come down a little bit

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Speaker 3: since the middle of last year, and we've been in

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Speaker 3: before this year, we were in this spot with the

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Speaker 3: economy where you know, the job market was incredibly resilient.

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Speaker 3: We had a year or two where, you know, if

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Speaker 3: you're an employee, you had employers begging for you to

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Speaker 3: join their companies because demand was way too high. You know,

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Speaker 3: if you weren't switching your jobs, then you probably had

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Speaker 3: a lot of negotiation leverage at the table. And you

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Speaker 3: know that that leverage, that employee power fell more and

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Speaker 3: more and more, but at a gradual pace because the

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Speaker 3: FED put the brakes on the economy. Interest rates were

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Speaker 3: super high, mortgage rates were super high. We were all

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Speaker 3: thinking about saving instead of investing and borrowing. And that

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Speaker 3: really put us in a place in the middle of

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Speaker 3: last year where the FED and when I say the FED,

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Speaker 3: I'm talking about the interest rate nerds up in DC

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Speaker 3: that you know, basically pull the levers on interest rates.

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Speaker 3: The FED looked at the economy and they said, Okay,

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Speaker 3: we think there's a risk to going too far here.

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Speaker 3: Interest rates are putting a lot of pressure on the economy,

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Speaker 3: and we're seeing that pressure bleed into the job market.

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Speaker 3: So the FED started bringing rates down. The job market

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Speaker 3: got a little bit better at the end of the year,

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Speaker 3: but the economy was in a bit of a fragile state.

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Speaker 3: And then we moved into this year, and you know,

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Speaker 3: we've all seen the headline since then, right. A lot

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Speaker 3: of tariff policy that's been put out there, speculated, put

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Speaker 3: into place, walked back, put back into place, a lot

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Speaker 3: of snip snap decision making. And businesses, both businesses and

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Speaker 3: Americans are watching this happen and they're like, I have

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Speaker 3: no idea what the future holds. So instead of investing,

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Speaker 3: instead of spending my money on big ticket items like

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Speaker 3: cars and houses, which by the way, still costs a

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Speaker 3: lot of money because interest rates are still high. They've

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Speaker 3: decided to stop, and I think that I think the

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Speaker 3: pivot point, the big pivot point was April second Liberation Day,

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Speaker 3: where we got the list of pretty wide ranging tariffs

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Speaker 3: for a lot of different countries and there was a

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Speaker 3: lot of back and forth there, but that's really when

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Speaker 3: the stock market started dropping like a stone. It was

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Speaker 3: down about ten percent up to that point, but in

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Speaker 3: the week after that, we saw historical swings, like biggest

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Speaker 3: swings that we've seen since the COVID crisis in the

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Speaker 3: financial crisis, as people really tried to process what huge

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Speaker 3: reciprocal tariffs could mean for their lives, their portfolios, their businesses.

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Speaker 3: And that's kind of where we are. We're still processing it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the reciprocal tariffs that weren't really reciprocal and that

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Speaker 1: have been pulled back but not fully rolled back. I

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Speaker 1: guess I'm curious too, do you think this new political

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Speaker 1: approach and new policy priorities do you think that is

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Speaker 1: mostly what we're seeing or it feels like there was

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Speaker 1: a lot of talk about an overinflated stock market even

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Speaker 1: before Trump took office. Do you think part of what's

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Speaker 1: happening to the stock market is a natural pullback that

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Speaker 1: occurs when stocks are overvalued.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a little bit of both. And I

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Speaker 3: hesitate to say that stocks are overvalue because I think

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Speaker 3: it's really hard to judge that. So when you're talking

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Speaker 3: about valuation, I'm going to make an assumption, but you're

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Speaker 3: probably talking about the price to earnings ratio, or where

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Speaker 3: earnings are expected to be over the next year and

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Speaker 3: where a stock or an index is trading relative to

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Speaker 3: those earnings. Right, Yeah, Okay, so pe price to earnings

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Speaker 3: ratio is a really it's a good way to judge

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Speaker 3: how stocks are valued, but it's hard to say. I'm

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Speaker 3: trying to think of the right way to say this.

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Speaker 3: It's hard to it's hard to say where they should

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Speaker 3: be valued because that price to earnings ratio can price

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Speaker 3: in a lot of hope, you know, a lot of

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Speaker 3: dreams about AI, a lot of optimism about.

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Speaker 1: The future, and values in the eye of the beholder.

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Speaker 3: A little bit value is in the eye of the beholder.

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Speaker 3: You know, there are designer shirts, there are shirts that

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Speaker 3: you get off the rack at Walmart. They're made with

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Speaker 3: the same fabrics, but you're paying different prices, right, same

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Speaker 3: thing with the price to earnings ratio, And in most environments,

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Speaker 3: a higher PE is actually okay. It's okay, tod, it's

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Speaker 3: okay to think about where tech stocks could be going

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Speaker 3: in the future. Just because the PE is high doesn't

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Speaker 3: mean the market's about to crash. The problem is when

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Speaker 3: you start to see economic cracks, right, and that's when

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Speaker 3: the optimism starts to fade. That's when you should probably

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Speaker 3: expect the PE to start falling because because again, you know,

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Speaker 3: expectations for the future start to fall, and then actual earnings,

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Speaker 3: if it gets bad enough, will start to fall as well.

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Speaker 3: And that's the moment that we're in right now, where yeah,

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Speaker 3: you're probably looking back and saying, Okay, the stock market

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Speaker 3: is probably richly valued or too high for what could

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Speaker 3: be coming. But yeah, what you brought up is actually

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Speaker 3: really important too. You know, the stock market sells off

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Speaker 3: in healthy economies. This in a way is kind of

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Speaker 3: part of the process. And we're coming off two incredible

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Speaker 3: years in the stock market. I mean twenty percent back

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Speaker 3: to back gains in the S and P five hundred.

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Speaker 2: That's true, we're not going to talk about teriffs the

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Speaker 2: entire time.

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Speaker 3: But ken if you want.

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Speaker 2: I feel like our listeners have had enough. I feel

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Speaker 2: like I've had enough, to be honest, because I feel

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Speaker 2: like so much if they haven't had enough with us,

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Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of it is overblown, And

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Speaker 2: at least at the time of this recording, we haven't

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Speaker 2: yet feel like businesses are looking ahead because they're looking

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Speaker 2: at quarters at a time, and especially small businesses and

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Speaker 2: how they're impacted by terras and the foreign availability of

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Speaker 2: goods that they need as inputs to run their businesses right.

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Speaker 2: But as consumers, a lot of folks haven't seen significant

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Speaker 2: increases when it comes to when it comes to prices,

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Speaker 2: and that was one of the biggest things that the

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Speaker 2: market was reacting to. Do you feel that the whole

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Speaker 2: terrorist thing is overblown or is it just it's more

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Speaker 2: complex and it's just going to take longer for it

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Speaker 2: to trickle through the system before we start seeing the headlines,

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Speaker 2: before we start seeing the lines of folks lining up

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Speaker 2: at stores, that kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: I think it's happening. So Liberation Day was April second,

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Speaker 3: so there's been about four weeks between that initial announcement

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Speaker 3: Trump with the poster and know us recording today. That's

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Speaker 3: about the time it takes from a ship to move

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Speaker 3: to go from China to the port of Los Angeles,

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Speaker 3: for those goods to be unloaded and finally make it

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Speaker 3: to their final destination. That stuff takes time. That's a

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Speaker 3: long journey. So what we're seeing right now is that

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Speaker 3: port volumes are coming down, which is concerning. That means

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Speaker 3: that there actually is some There are inventory changes that

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Speaker 3: are happening on the back of these dramatic tariffs, especially

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Speaker 3: coming from China. And look, once that's happening, it's gonna

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Speaker 3: roll through the system and you're gonna see it in

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Speaker 3: some way or another, empty shelves, higher prices, mix of

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Speaker 3: the two. That is anybody's guess. What worries me is

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Speaker 3: that we're starting to see indications through company earnings reports

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Speaker 3: and through more bird's eye view. Macro reports that a

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Speaker 3: lot of companies feel comfortable passing along those prices, which

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Speaker 3: means you and I when we go to the store,

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Speaker 3: we're going to pay higher prices for those goods. The

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Speaker 3: companies aren't just going to eat that cost.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm curious too, how much of an impact

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Speaker 1: like foreign backlash against tariffs, Like what could the ramifications

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Speaker 1: be there? We've already seen Canadians saying I'm not vacationing

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Speaker 1: in the United States anymore, and just far fewer people

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Speaker 1: from just north are are coming down, and it's you know,

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Speaker 1: hurting our tourism industry. And you wrote something about I

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Speaker 1: think foreign consumers can essentially cause a lot of pain

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Speaker 1: for Corporate America. Do you think those boycotts from other

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Speaker 1: countries because of the way we're acting could have other

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Speaker 1: ramifications too.

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Speaker 3: You know, I worry a lot about this because I

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Speaker 3: think it's hard to quantify the eventual impact, but we

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Speaker 3: know the impact could be big. And that's actually why

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Speaker 3: I wrote the Boycott American newsletter. I wasn't saying boycott America,

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Speaker 3: but what I was trying to do is put some

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Speaker 3: numbers behind how interwoven foreign consumers, foreign tourists, foreign investors

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Speaker 3: are in our markets and the travel. The travel part

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Speaker 3: is interesting because we've already started to see data and

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Speaker 3: really interesting color from travel companies on how foreign bookings

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Speaker 3: are down. So we heard it from Delta, I believe

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Speaker 3: we heard it from American in the past few weeks

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Speaker 3: they've seen bookings come down, especially international bookings foreign tourists

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Speaker 3: coming into the US. And I saw a report from

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Speaker 3: a Canadian travel consulting company and like, look, this is

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Speaker 3: this is one report, but it's backed up by a

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Speaker 3: lot of color that we're seeing or that we're hearing.

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Speaker 3: But this one report from the Canadian travel consulting company

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Speaker 3: said that Canadian bookings of travel into the US are

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Speaker 3: down seventy percent year every year, which is a huge number.

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Speaker 3: It's a scary number. And I don't take one piece

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Speaker 3: of data and you know, un run down a rabbit

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Speaker 3: hole with that. I don't think that's smart for anybody

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Speaker 3: to do, but it should, at the very least make

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Speaker 3: you think a little bit about, you know, the second

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Speaker 3: order consequences or the second order effects of what could

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Speaker 3: be going on here and in markets. I don't know

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Speaker 3: if a lot of people know this. I certainly wouldn't

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Speaker 3: know if I didn't work in finance, but foreign investors

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Speaker 3: have been major buyers of stocks and bonds over the

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Speaker 3: past several years, primarily because we have the biggest and best,

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Speaker 3: most innovative companies in the world. I mean, everybody wants

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Speaker 3: to invest in Apple, right, but on the bond side,

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Speaker 3: we also have an incredibly deep and incredibly rich and

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Speaker 3: volume heavy marketing government det it's called the treasury market,

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Speaker 3: and foreign investors have been turning more and more to

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Speaker 3: treasuries to hedge their portfolios and to get a nice

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Speaker 3: stable source of yield. So we have to step back

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Speaker 3: and consider that some of that, maybe all of that

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Speaker 3: could be at risk here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so much of that.

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Speaker 2: It's a slow burn. I think that's what I'm coming

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Speaker 2: to terms with. When it's between the news the headlines

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Speaker 2: Trump making changes to tear us or to following through

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Speaker 2: or pulling back in the stock market, it's incredibly reactionary.

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Speaker 2: And we see day and now I mean not even

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Speaker 2: day to day changes like minutes a minute, hour by

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Speaker 2: hour sort of changes. But when it comes to some

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Speaker 2: of these higher prices, and what you said is totally true, right,

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Speaker 2: We've seen the reports of the empty cargo ships showing

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Speaker 2: up at port because they're like, all right, we got

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Speaker 2: to keep moving. And at some point, if there are

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Speaker 2: no goods, we might be bound to see higher prices

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Speaker 2: less availability of goods on the shelves. But from an

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Speaker 2: investing standpoint, what should we do, Like how should folks

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Speaker 2: respond to the different pieces of news that they come across,

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Speaker 2: because kind of going back to the beginning of our conversation,

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Speaker 2: you're talking about having beauty, you're investing being beautiful.

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Speaker 1: I feel like a part of what you're.

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Speaker 2: Saying there is to take into account the fact that

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Speaker 2: there are going to be things that you're going to

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Speaker 2: want to want to react to and to allow for

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Speaker 2: some of that humanity to play out in our investing.

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Speaker 2: Would you recommend that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a good place to start, and

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Speaker 3: I just want to add something else on that practicality

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Speaker 3: versus beauty comment. You know, a lot of client conversations

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Speaker 3: we have, and a lot of conversations I'm having with

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Speaker 3: friends and family right now are what to do. And

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Speaker 3: usually the options that they see in front of them

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Speaker 3: are to sell everything and run for the hills, or

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Speaker 3: buy everything and stay invested, because that's what the spreadsheet

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Speaker 3: is telling me to do. Right and measures extreme measures,

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Speaker 3: But in a way, people don't realize that they're extreme

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Speaker 3: because I see, because I see different flavors of this

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Speaker 3: every day, I can say that it's extreme. And by

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Speaker 3: the way, if you feel that way, it's okay. You're

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Speaker 3: human your brain is working as it should. It's supposed

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Speaker 3: to alert you of risks, but as an investor, you

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Speaker 3: have to take that in and you know understand how

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Speaker 3: you should react in this moment based on how you

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Speaker 3: feel in your gut, but also based on what you're

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Speaker 3: going to do with your money and how much time

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Speaker 3: you have in front of you. And it's this, it's

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Speaker 3: this really tough, tangled mix of reality and feeling, and

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Speaker 3: that's why finance is really hard. But to go back

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Speaker 3: to your question, I mean, I think a lot of

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Speaker 3: people have that middle lane and they don't realize they

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Speaker 3: have it. So if it means, you know, looking at

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Speaker 3: your portfolio saying that you're investing for a retirement and

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Speaker 3: that means that you have a few decades ahead of you,

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Speaker 3: then you know, maybe it means raising a little bit

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Speaker 3: of cash, filling up your emergency fund, making sure you

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Speaker 3: feel comfortable with where you are in case you will

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Speaker 3: lose your job, because unfortunately, job loss is the reality

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Speaker 3: of economic crises. That's one of the hallmarks of you know,

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Speaker 3: why growth slows down and people stop spending money, and

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Speaker 3: you know, trying to put yourself in a place where

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Speaker 3: you're comfortable but you don't abandon your future self at

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Speaker 3: the same time, because, like again, if you go back

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Speaker 3: to the math, it makes a lot of sense to

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Speaker 3: buy when the stock market is down ten or fifteen

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Speaker 3: percent from highs if you have decades ahead of you.

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Speaker 3: But that's not so easy in practice. And I certainly

434
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 3: don't want to assume that it is easy with anybody

435
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,360
Speaker 3: I'm talking to, because I'm a human too, I understand

436
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 3: how it feels.

437
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 1: So you say you're a human, which I fully believe

438
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,479
Speaker 1: you when you say that. What you and actually you've

439
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 1: alluded to this in some of your recent blocks. So

440
00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 1: you said you admitted to being a little scared, and

441
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 1: you also have said like, hey, I'm kind of a

442
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,160
Speaker 1: type A person means I want more control. I'm curious

443
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,400
Speaker 1: how that mixture of being a little fearful because especially

444
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 1: given the how much you've been around markets and how

445
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 1: much history you've read about, you know, stock market gyrations

446
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,200
Speaker 1: like hey, you're pretty young, Kelly, Like why are you fearful?

447
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 1: And how is your type A self responding to what's

448
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 1: going on? Like what are you doing?

449
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 3: You just painted me so well Type A and anxious

450
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,320
Speaker 3: about everything. Both of those comments are absolutely true, and

451
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,640
Speaker 3: I'm not. Look, I don't hide that, and I think

452
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 3: Wall Street sometimes falls into this trap of, you know,

453
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,200
Speaker 3: hiding the fact that they're humans, because, Okay, I get

454
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 3: part of it. Like you, you're managing a lot of money,

455
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,439
Speaker 3: and you don't want to lead on that you you

456
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,880
Speaker 3: might have an ounce of uncertainty, of feeling an ounce

457
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:52,120
Speaker 3: of uncertainty in yourself. I get why people move that way,

458
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,400
Speaker 3: but I try to approach these situations from a moment

459
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 3: of empathy and if we're being honest here, like I

460
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,680
Speaker 3: don't know what the future holds. I down the rabbit

461
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 3: hole sometimes a lot these days, not so much on

462
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,479
Speaker 3: the investing side, but you know, on the policy side,

463
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 3: on the you know, living life as a human side,

464
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 3: where could this go? Especially you know, the with the

465
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 3: extremism of the headlines and policy that we all hear about.

466
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 3: But I'm lucky that I have the investing background. I

467
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 3: know how markets work, and I know how important a

468
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:29,360
Speaker 3: process is. So I'm not your listeners. So I want

469
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 3: to be clear when I say this. I'm not making

470
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 3: a recommendation. But I know that I am investing for

471
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 3: retirement and I'm in my thirties, so I have decades

472
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,199
Speaker 3: ahead of me. And even if you're in retirement and

473
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 3: you're living off your portfolio, yes, this moment feels scarier,

474
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 3: but you're probably investing for decades too. God forbid, you're

475
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 3: dying the day that you retire. I hope that doesn't

476
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 3: happen to you. So I think you know, as somebody

477
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 3: who leans back on numbers, I really try to sit

478
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 3: back on the fact that I have a lot of

479
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 3: time ahead of me, that if I do feel anxious,

480
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,120
Speaker 3: then I need to make sure sure my financial house

481
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 3: is in order, so that can cull a little bit

482
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 3: of my feeling there. And look, I leave it up

483
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 3: to the numbers. I have targets for stocks, bonds, and

484
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 3: crypto in my portfolio, and if my allocations move out

485
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 3: of the target, I adjust. I also have pulled forward

486
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 3: a few like monthly investing investing deposits that I was

487
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 3: going to make, because I know that when stocks are

488
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 3: down ten, fifteen to twenty percent, then that's often a

489
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 3: good buying opportunity, even if it doesn't feel good at

490
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 3: the moment. So there are little changes you can make

491
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 3: on the margins, and yes, raising cash is okay on

492
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,199
Speaker 3: the margins if you don't go too far, but there

493
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 3: are little changes you can make to tailor your portfolio

494
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 3: to you and how you feel that don't necessarily doom you,

495
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 3: you know, years down the road.

496
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:55,360
Speaker 2: That's that type a Cali stupat right there, overcoming anxiety

497
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,959
Speaker 2: calli oh and going back to market house numbers. Not

498
00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 2: to make this all about him, but like that's like

499
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 2: the beatle full architectural home, but also there's a little

500
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 2: bit of mess in there, you know, like there's a

501
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 2: little bit or there's a random piece of art that

502
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 2: doesn't quite fit the rest.

503
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: Of the of the house.

504
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 2: Because like that's the kind of thing that allows for

505
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 2: there to be more of that sort of messy day

506
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 2: to day living. It doesn't doesn't have to be all

507
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 2: stoic and perfect and personal and yeah, emotionless, but you've

508
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 2: got more sane and rational investing advice to get to.

509
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 2: With Cali Cox in particular, we're going to talk about

510
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 2: some of the things that some younger investors should keep

511
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 2: in mind. We'll get to that and more right after this.

512
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: Our we're back still talking with Calie Cox, talking about

513
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: markets and Cally and just kind of what's happening right

514
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 1: now from an economic perspective and the impact that's having

515
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: on personal finance decisions. Kelly, I'm curious too, like, how

516
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: do you think the current climate conditions and economic uncertainty

517
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 1: should impact the personal finance decisions were made. I'm thinking about,

518
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: in particular, something as big as buying a house, and

519
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 1: I know that like Zillow has said, hey, we think

520
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: that home prices are actually going to decline this year,

521
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: and that might be welcome news from someone who's been

522
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 1: trying to buy a home that it has been unable

523
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 1: to But then they're like, well, but wait a second,

524
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: my portfolio is down ten percent. I feel like I

525
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: have less buying power now, so maybe it's not a

526
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: win win. I don't know, how are you thinking or

527
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: how are you advising people think about some of those

528
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,360
Speaker 1: bigger buying decisions right now.

529
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really good question, And of course it

530
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 3: all boils down to your own situation, your own goals.

531
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 3: I know you're going to hear that everywhere, but I

532
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 3: just want to emphasize that that's really important. I don't

533
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 3: know how much money you have in your bank account,

534
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 3: I don't know why you're investing your money. Those facts

535
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 3: are really important when you're making these decisions. The first

536
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,719
Speaker 3: thing I'll say there is that interest rates sit at

537
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 3: the heart of a lot of these decisions. And that's

538
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 3: why a few minutes ago I was talking about the

539
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 3: Federal Reserve and where they're setting their policy rate. It's

540
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 3: not the Fed's policy rate doesn't directly impact the mortgage

541
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 3: rate that you're going to be paying on a new house,

542
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,959
Speaker 3: but it has a pretty heavy hand and those mortgage

543
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 3: rates that you're seeing, So to a certain extent, you

544
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 3: have to know where interest rates are and where they're going.

545
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 3: And right now, interest rates are still quite high, which

546
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 3: means that you're getting really nice savings rates on your

547
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 3: savings account. And if you're not, please switch banks. I

548
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 3: know you can. I know you can get a good

549
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 3: rate there. But at the same time, what you're giving

550
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 3: up is the fact that you borrowing has become more expensive,

551
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 3: and we have these seven percent mortgage rates and ten

552
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 3: percent auto loan rates that you have to contend with.

553
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 3: So know that in this moment, from the financial side,

554
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 3: it may not be the best moment to step out

555
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 3: and buy a house. But then again, that's a personal decision,

556
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 3: so you just have to know the risks that you're

557
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 3: taking on when you're you know, making these huge life

558
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 3: altering decisions, and unfortunately the FED isn't on your side.

559
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 3: They might be down the road, but the problem is

560
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 3: the FED will probably is that the FED will probably

561
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 3: cut interest rates because we start to see some weakness

562
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 3: in the economy and that weakness could affect you in

563
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 3: one way or the other. So I would just take

564
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 3: a step back, you know, understand what you want to

565
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 3: do in the next one year, two years, three years,

566
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 3: write it down on a piece of paper, keep yourself

567
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 3: honest there, and prepare for an environment where it does

568
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 3: cost a little bit more and you can't, you know,

569
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 3: rely on a steady income. I mean, I hate to

570
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 3: be I hate to paint the worst case scenario here,

571
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 3: but I think it's important to make these decisions with

572
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 3: all options in mind.

573
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's wise. Yeah, we can't. I thought

574
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 2: you were going to say this, but we can't bank

575
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 2: on those rate cuts for you to go ahead and

576
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 2: buy now while balances are a little bit higher, assuming

577
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: that those rate cuts will come and you have the

578
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 2: ability to refinance.

579
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: Sure, he had dropping interests. It feels like had been

580
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: promised by people, especially in the real estate industry for

581
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: the last couple of years, and they haven't meant to.

582
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 2: Like they're common.

583
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: It's like, well, actually we haven't not yet by the

584
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: home you can always refin.

585
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 2: Well, let's get back to investing, Kelly, because I want

586
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 2: to talk about the younger generation. There are there have

587
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 2: been a lot of folks who have become more accustomed

588
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 2: to being on their phones where they're trading regularly on

589
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 2: apps like Robinhood. Do you think that this is a

590
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 2: positive trend overall or are you worried that they're going

591
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 2: to get the wrong idea about investing and they're going

592
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 2: to get burned because of the availability. Like, on one hand,

593
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 2: the availability availability is obviously good the democratization of investing,

594
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 2: but on the other hand, talk to us about maybe

595
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 2: the false pretenses in which a lot of younger folks

596
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: are investing.

597
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 3: Yes, unequivocally this is a good thing, and I believe

598
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 3: pretty strongly in this, And of course I have a

599
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 3: brikerage background, so I am a little biased here. But

600
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 3: when look the history of our country is built, what

601
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 3: has been built on walls around capital markets, you know, investing.

602
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 3: You and I, of course we didn't have cell phones

603
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 3: before the two thousands or so. But you and I

604
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 3: investing without having to call up a broker wasn't possible

605
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 3: until the late nineteen nineties. There was that natural moat

606
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 3: where it was incredibly hard to invest and some people

607
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 3: didn't have the ability to invest because you know, a

608
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 3: lot of this talk was happening behind closed doors. We

609
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 3: couldn't be further from that environment these days. I mean, gosh,

610
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 3: you said it, but you can get on your phone

611
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 3: swipes are swipe you buy a stock. I think that's

612
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 3: a good thing. I think investing should be accessible to everybody,

613
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 3: and I think every American should have the power to

614
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 3: build wealth the way that they want. It's your money.

615
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 3: I'm not going to tell you what to do with it.

616
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 3: You know, if you bring it to red Holes, I

617
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 3: can help advise you on it. But you know, ultimately,

618
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 3: you do what you want to do, and you should

619
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 3: have the power to be able to do what you

620
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 3: want with your money. And we're there. We are at

621
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 3: a point where I think a lot of investors are

622
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 3: learning hard lessons, which is okay. Sometimes that's the best

623
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 3: way to grow and learn. But I'm glad that investors

624
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 3: are jumping into the sandbox and you know, trying out

625
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 3: different markets, especially when they're younger, when they can afford

626
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 3: to take on this risk, and you know, when they can,

627
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 3: you know, start to feel better about about, you know,

628
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 3: investing larger sums of money. I always said this at

629
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 3: Ally and E Toro, and I firmly believe this too.

630
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 3: Sometimes the best way to learn how to invest is

631
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 3: to invest. It's dipping your toe on the water. It's

632
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 3: opening that breakerage account, getting over that initial hump, you know,

633
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 3: maybe throwing ten dollars in, putting it in a stock,

634
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 3: putting it in a fund, and seeing where it goes.

635
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 3: I really think learning is an experience that people underestimate,

636
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 3: and a lot of Americans, especially younger investors, are getting

637
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 3: that experience right now.

638
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: Doing the thing, even if it's done imperfectly. I think

639
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: you're right. I think that is overwhelmingly good. And we're

640
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: seeing more. I've seen more evidence that investors, young investors

641
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: seem to be understanding investing a little bit more, especially

642
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: when you see the market drop, and I feel like

643
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: what I'm seeing in Respet is less panic selling and

644
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: more buying the dip. How do you think about that?

645
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: What's your take on that?

646
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 2: Approach.

647
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: Is it are they taking the war and Buffett being

648
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: fearful when others are greedy, being greedy when others are

649
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: fearful sort of adage? Or or are these yeah, are

650
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: young individual investors becoming a little more sophisticated.

651
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 3: They're definitely becoming more sophisticated. This goes back to the

652
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 3: learning by experience, right, you know, maybe selling into us

653
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 3: into a stock market drop and then realizing that price

654
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 3: rebounded on you, maybe feeling that pain more acutely through options.

655
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 3: I think investors have learned a bit of a reflex

656
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 3: over the past decade or so, which I think can

657
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 3: get a little tricky because I don't think that same

658
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 3: reflex will work in this moment. But I mean I

659
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 3: think investors are aware of, you know, what can happen,

660
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 3: especially with the FED being as powerful as it is

661
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 3: in markets these days. And I don't necessarily think that's

662
00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 3: a bad thing. I mean, we talk about staying invested

663
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 3: in how hard it is to stay invested all the time,

664
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 3: and you know, younger investors are out here saying by

665
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 3: the dip and then going into markets, going into markets

666
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 3: without a second thought. Honestly, if you are if you

667
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 3: have decades ahead of you as a twenty something year old,

668
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 3: then you're doing the right thing. I just think you

669
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 3: have to be a little careful about that. And again,

670
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 3: it's your money, you do whatever you want with it.

671
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 3: But you know, I don't think in a high interest

672
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 3: rate environment, when inflation is a problem, and when unemployment

673
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 3: is a real risk too, I don't think by the

674
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 3: dep works as works as well as people think it will.

675
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 2: I feel that I feel like Kelly might be like

676
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 2: a closet libertarian jewel.

677
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: I hear a lot of her saying.

678
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 2: You be you, you do you, it's.

679
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: Your money, don't reveal her political affiliations. Man, No, Obviously,

680
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: personal responsibility fastly important. We're talking about taking risks though,

681
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: and like when you are investing, that is inevitable. But

682
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,479
Speaker 1: what are some of the bad, risky moves that you

683
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 1: are seeing folks make. Especially we're kind of focusing on

684
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: younger investors here. I don't even want to say younger cohorts.

685
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 2: It's just online folks because sometimes they're older folks, yeah,

686
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,720
Speaker 2: who obviously spend way too much online. But it seems

687
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 2: like that there tends to be a following of different trends,

688
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 2: which can lead to poor outcomes. So maybe that's the question.

689
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 2: What are some of the negative, risky trends that you

690
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:20,800
Speaker 2: see more folks jumping on these days.

691
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 3: Well, I want to talk about the social aspect first,

692
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,959
Speaker 3: because I don't think the social aspect is that bad either.

693
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 3: We do lots of different things for many different reasons.

694
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 3: I think it's okay to invest because your friends are

695
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 3: investing and you want a sense of community. Again, that's

696
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 3: my brokerage background speaking. I used to work for a

697
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 3: social investing platform. But I truly don't think that's a problem.

698
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 3: If you want to learn and build community through your money,

699
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 3: it's your money. You do whatever you want with it.

700
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 3: I think the trouble comes when younger investors or investors

701
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 3: of any age come in and they learn a hard

702
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 3: lesson and then they just don't trust cop markets ever again.

703
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 3: And I see that happening for investors of all ages.

704
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 3: I mean, gosh, we have brikerige customers that I talk

705
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,439
Speaker 3: to that really wrestled with this, And what I hate

706
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 3: about that is, you know, piles of data have shown

707
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 3: us that capital markets are the way to build wealth

708
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 3: in America. That is a fact that you can't argue

709
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 3: against and sometimes you just have to, you know, lean

710
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 3: in and kind of ride the coattails of America's best companies.

711
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 3: You know, sometimes that's the easiest and most accessible path

712
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 3: for you. So I think education is really important here.

713
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 3: I think it's smart to remind people that stocks go

714
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 3: up and down. You have different layers of risk when

715
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 3: it comes to single stocks, and you're magnifying those risks

716
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 3: sometimes with options. You know, people need to be equipped

717
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 3: with how they're investing. But ultimately, I think it's a

718
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 3: trust thing. If people start to lose trust in capital markets,

719
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 3: then you're going to have a lot of problems in society.

720
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 3: And I worry that we're moving toward that point.

721
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: So you just said people need to be reminded stocks

722
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 1: go up and down. Do you think in one sense,

723
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: we as a population investor population got used to kind of, hey,

724
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 1: markets go up. Hey, this is just guaranteed returns that

725
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: far exceed what I'm going to get inside my high

726
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,879
Speaker 1: yield savings account. It's it's kind of like a high

727
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 1: old savings account, but on steroids. So I just need

728
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 1: more and more stock exposure and that maybe those people

729
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: and when you look at like the last fifteen years,

730
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: returns have been better than average, and we have had

731
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: fewer downturns like an extended bowle market. Did we just

732
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: get used to something that isn't the norm.

733
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 3: I don't think we necessarily got used to it, because

734
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 3: we had the Great Financial Crisis, we had the COVID crisis,

735
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 3: we had a painful, painful twenty twenty two where it

736
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 3: felt like no market was going up, and in reality

737
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 3: a lot of tangible investment investments were going up with inflation,

738
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 3: but stocks and bonds weren't working and people felt that.

739
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 3: So I wouldn't necessarily think that's the case. I think

740
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 3: what it comes down to, at least over the past

741
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 3: decade or so, has been a lack of options. Looking

742
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 3: at a bank account, seeing that I'm talking about pre

743
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 3: twenty two here, looking at your bank account, seeing that

744
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 3: you're getting paid nothing on your savings account, you know,

745
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 3: looking at the fixed income market, seeing that you're getting

746
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 3: paid two percent to lend money for ten years down

747
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 3: the road, and you know, wondering how you build wealth.

748
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 3: Oh and I'll add too, looking outside of markets into

749
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 3: a corporate world where you know, wage gains were pithy,

750
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 3: were awful because the incentives were all off after the

751
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 3: Great Financial Crisis, and a lot of companies were they

752
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 3: felt like they were in survival mode. They weren't necessarily

753
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 3: investing back in their employees, they were, they were paying

754
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 3: more attention to their shareholders, especially as that worked over time.

755
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 3: So I mean, picture a millennial investor, Picture you and

756
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 3: me sitting here wondering what our options are to build

757
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 3: our wealth and seeing the stock market and basically nothing else.

758
00:37:58,040 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: Then yeah, it feels like the only game in town.

759
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. And that's that's to a t what Wall

760
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 3: Street was saying back in the mid twenty tens. Stocks

761
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 3: are the only game in town, and they were right.

762
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 3: I think we're seeing the other side of that. And again,

763
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 3: like I said, not necessarily a bad thing. I think

764
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 3: it led to some skewed incentives. But yeah, we had

765
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 3: to lean on the stock market. That's you know, that's

766
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,280
Speaker 3: really what we grew up with in our teens and twenties.

767
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 3: And to a certain extent, that's good because you know,

768
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 3: like I said, it's been it's been really hard to

769
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 3: invest for way too long. But on the other hand,

770
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 3: I think now we have some options. Wage growth is

771
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 3: finally healthy, especially especially for you know, lower level jobs.

772
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 3: We have bonds that are actually paying out yield. We

773
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 3: have savings account rates that you know, hover between three

774
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 3: and four percent above inflation, and you know, we're like, Wow,

775
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 3: this is a whole new world. I don't I don't

776
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 3: really know what to do with it, but I do

777
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 3: know the stock market works, so maybe let me lean

778
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 3: into that. And that's not always that's not always a

779
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 3: quick immediate source of dopamine or help or gains.

780
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I get that. What do you have

781
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 2: an opinion on the fire movement? This is kind of

782
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 2: a somewhat weird pivot, but I mean, I guess you

783
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 2: mentioned the twenty tens as well, and I'm just like

784
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 2: something else that kind of was birthed in the twenty tens.

785
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,280
Speaker 2: That makes me think of all the folks who are like, oh,

786
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,720
Speaker 2: the fire movement, financial independence, retiring early. Do you have

787
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 2: an opinion there? Do you think that most folks who

788
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 2: ascribe to the fire movement are equipped to handle prolonged

789
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 2: downturns You mentioned twenty twenty two when basically like no

790
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:40,240
Speaker 2: market was doing well in twenty twenty two. The view

791
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 2: towards work and being productive in society, i'd love to

792
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 2: get your thoughts on fire.

793
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 3: So I think the fire movement is interesting. It's not

794
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 3: a path that I'm going down. I love what I do.

795
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 3: I actually find a lot of value in my work.

796
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 3: It lights me up. I have a passion around it,

797
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 3: and I'm really lucky to feel that way. I think there.

798
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 3: I think that there has been a little bit of

799
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 3: a boost to that movement just because markets have done

800
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 3: so well, and I'm not sure enough people realize the

801
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 3: reality of living on your portfolio and how painful it

802
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 3: can be when stocks are selling off and bonds are

803
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 3: selling off, which unfortunately is the scenario that some of

804
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 3: us are in right now. I generally advise against looking

805
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 3: to extremes. I feel like fire is a bit of

806
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,280
Speaker 3: an extreme decision, and if it's if it's a decision

807
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 3: that works for you, that's great. I'm not sure it

808
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 3: works for a bunch of different people. Even though we

809
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 3: can all I think at times we can all agree

810
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 3: that it would be fun to retire and travel forever

811
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 3: and you know, live off of your portfolio.

812
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: It also might get old. Let's be honest.

813
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 3: I worry about that.

814
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 1: Who can travel forever?

815
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 3: I mean, like you said, I'm type and anxious. I

816
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 3: was in Costa Rica for a week and I had

817
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 3: a great time, but towards the end, I was like, Man,

818
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 3: I really miss my normal life. I miss the routine.

819
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,399
Speaker 3: And I think a lot of people realize once they

820
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,919
Speaker 3: retire at any age, that that routine and that sense

821
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,439
Speaker 3: of purpose is really important. I actually think Coast Fire

822
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 3: is really interesting. I learned about Coast Fire about a

823
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 3: year ago, and it's the movement where you don't retire immediately,

824
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 3: but what you know is that you could live off

825
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 3: your portfolio if you have to, if you didn't contribute

826
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 3: any more to your portfolio, and you have like a

827
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 3: retirement age ahead of you that you're aiming for. I

828
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 3: think that's a really cool psychological hack, and I think

829
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 3: it's more realistic for the majority of people who do

830
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 3: learn about the Fire movement.

831
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:36,439
Speaker 1: Do you think do you think some of the people

832
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: in the Fire movement maybe made rosy projections of future

833
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: stock market increases based on historical realities, based on recency bias,

834
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 1: and that maybe especially when you look at predictions from

835
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 1: places like Vanguard and they're saying over the next decade,

836
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 1: returns are going to be pretty tepid. Do you think

837
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: some of those folks might find that the ways they

838
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: assumed their portfolio would perform, well, maybe it doesn't perform

839
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: in that way, and they're left in a much more

840
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 1: tenuous situation.

841
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 3: I'm sure there's a little bit of that, because you know,

842
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 3: we all make different assumptions. I don't love the forecasts

843
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 3: that come out of the Vanguards and Goldman Sachs's of

844
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 3: the world where they say, you know, we think stocks

845
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 3: will make X over the next ten years. Like that's

846
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 3: as good of a guess as me licking my finger

847
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 3: and sticking it in the air and trying to tell

848
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 3: you where the wimbile blow. It's not. It is based

849
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 3: on some math, but it's it's ultimately marketing, right, It's

850
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 3: ultimately getting an interesting opinion out there for an audience

851
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 3: that you're trying to reach. That's all it is. It's

852
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 3: not a great assumption to go off of. I don't

853
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 3: know if you remember, but Goldman actually put out a

854
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 3: report six months ago or so where they said that

855
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 3: they think and I'm I'm not sure which stock index

856
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 3: they targeted, but they said stock they think stocks will

857
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 3: return an average of three percent over the next ten years.

858
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 3: And I had so many friends and family ask me

859
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 3: about that report. I think because there was a tangible

860
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 3: number in it and it was Goldman, it got a

861
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 3: lot of news pick up. But I was like, are

862
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,919
Speaker 3: you kidding me? Like what makes you think that even

863
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 3: Goldman has a crystal ball and can see into the

864
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,280
Speaker 3: future and where markets are going. I think the twenty

865
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 3: tens are the perfect example of you know, why forecasts

866
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 3: are forecasts are ultimately bunk. You know, they they're good

867
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 3: at teaching you how to think differently, Like, sure, they're

868
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 3: good at spurring discussion, but I think you can, you know,

869
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 3: fall on the wrong side of forecasts that are too

870
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 3: high and forecasts that are too low, and generally it

871
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 3: makes sense to be a little more conservative in your

872
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,919
Speaker 3: own portfolio, Like you can't assume, you can't assume twenty

873
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,240
Speaker 3: percent returns forever more and more. I hope that happens,

874
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 3: but I don't think that's very likely. But at the

875
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 3: same time, I don't think it serves you to go

876
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 3: to conservative or to listen to the more pessimistic forecasts

877
00:43:58,400 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 3: around that, because nobody really knows.

878
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: Don't listen to the pestimist, listen to optimistic. Cali I

879
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 1: like that. You have just a few more questions to

880
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 1: get to with you, Cali, including with let's talk about stagflation,

881
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: a term we're hearing more and more about. We'll get

882
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: to that right after this.

883
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 2: We're back from the break with Callie Cox.

884
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 1: Cali.

885
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 2: Something you said before the break, you said it can

886
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 2: be painful to live off of your portfolio. And I

887
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 2: think one of the things you're speaking to there is

888
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 2: like the reality of knowing that the numbers point to

889
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 2: of fairly rosy future even with conservative estimates, right like

890
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 2: not even the most aggressive expecting the most aggressive returns.

891
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,760
Speaker 2: There's a difference between knowing that, but then the lived

892
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 2: reality of seeing, you know, maybe objectively dumb decisions being

893
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 2: made on a pop when it comes to policy and

894
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 2: how that impacts our government. Is there some sort of

895
00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 2: I don't know, like rule of thumb or some sort

896
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,919
Speaker 2: of test that folks can put on themselves to help

897
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 2: them to analyze whether the decisions that they're making in

898
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 2: regards to their portfolio is more of an emotional knee

899
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:16,320
Speaker 2: jerk reaction versus them trying to reevaluate the new basically

900
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:16,760
Speaker 2: the new.

901
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:17,359
Speaker 1: Rules of the game.

902
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,879
Speaker 2: Right, Like, there's a difference between just like without even

903
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 2: looking anything, just completely reacting, versus saying, Okay, well, actually

904
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 2: maybe I can't handle this type of risk and what

905
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 2: I need to do here is rebalance my portfolio or

906
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,720
Speaker 2: lean a little bit more in a conservative direction.

907
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: Is there a way to know whether.

908
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:36,919
Speaker 2: Or not somebody is making the moves that they're making

909
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:37,720
Speaker 2: for the right reason.

910
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 3: I feel like I could talk about this specific question

911
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 3: for an hour plus, but I'll try to boil it

912
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 3: down because this is actually giving me an idea for

913
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 3: a newsletter.

914
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 2: All right.

915
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 3: I think it depends. It depends the worst answer ever,

916
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 3: it depends on who you are, and I think the

917
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 3: test is different for everybody. But some general guidance I

918
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 3: would give around that is how quickly you make a decision.

919
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 3: So let's say a bad headline crosses the tape, another

920
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 3: tariff headline, and you know it feels painful, and you say, ah,

921
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 3: I feel like I should sell stocks. If you feel

922
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 3: that reaction immediately, you probably can't trust it. And I

923
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 3: know that's a hard thing to say, because I want

924
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,320
Speaker 3: I want people to feel like they can trust themselves.

925
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 3: But there's a difference between between a reaction and a

926
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 3: sound decision and when when both of them are overlapping,

927
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 3: or when the sound decision comes quickly, I think you

928
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 3: need to question it at the very least. Again, I

929
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 3: like to lean on numbers, So when I have a

930
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 3: nicky type of anxious reaction, I always go back to

931
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 3: my numbers. I remind myself that, Okay, my portfolio is

932
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 3: this size. X percent is in stocks, and this is

933
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:49,959
Speaker 3: why X percent is in bonds, and this is why

934
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 3: X percent is in crypto. This is why, and that

935
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 3: usually writes my path. But I know that I eat, sleep,

936
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 3: breathe this stuff, so it's a little it's a little

937
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 3: little bit easier for me. I think about this a lot.

938
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 3: The other thing I'd throw out there is, you know,

939
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 3: there are certain processes that work for different people, but

940
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 3: the process is the important part when you have those feelings.

941
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 3: Knowing how to center yourself, So even if it's like

942
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 3: touching the table in front of you, or sipping a

943
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,439
Speaker 3: cup of hot tea or touching grass or something, knowing

944
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 3: how to get back into yourself and then calmly evaluating

945
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 3: what's going on is really smart. And knowing what that

946
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 3: process is for you is very important. So you can

947
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,399
Speaker 3: get to a point that you can think through this

948
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 3: sound decision that you're about to make. And again it's

949
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:44,359
Speaker 3: not easy. But everybody talks about having an investing plan.

950
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 3: This is when an investing plan is really important. I

951
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:52,800
Speaker 3: invest when I get my paycheck and maybe not outside

952
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 3: of it, although I think you could be a little

953
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 3: fluid with that. And I will put X percent of

954
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 3: my money into stocks, ex percent of my money into bonds,

955
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 3: ex percent of my money into crypto if that's suitable

956
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:05,760
Speaker 3: for you, and knowing when you'll eventually need that money

957
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 3: so you can make a plan to take it out.

958
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: So we're hearing the term stagflation thrown around a lot

959
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: these days, which is a throwback to the nineteen seventies

960
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 1: when none of us were born.

961
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 3: Are you saying you know how old I am.

962
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 2: Well, you referred to us as millennials, that we are

963
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 2: barely millennials, Cali, So that tells me that you are

964
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:26,479
Speaker 2: younger than that's true.

965
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:27,359
Speaker 3: I did tap my hand there.

966
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:29,720
Speaker 1: So stackflation is the thing that only our parents remember.

967
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 1: But is that something you're truly worried about? Is that

968
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: something we can or should be preparing for? How would

969
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 1: we react?

970
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 3: I'm worrying about it more. I wouldn't say that I'm

971
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 3: certain it will happen. I'm certain nothing will happen. Nobody

972
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 3: knows what the future holds, but I worry. So I'll

973
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 3: explain what stackplation is first, and then I'll talk about

974
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 3: where we are now. So stackflation is this economic phenomenon

975
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 3: where unemployment is going higher, people are losing their jobs.

976
00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:00,320
Speaker 3: Prices are also going higher, so inflation and economic growth

977
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 3: is stagnant. And those three conditions together are really hard

978
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 3: to reach, especially these days. But when you do get there,

979
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 3: like in the nineteen seventies, it can be incredibly painful

980
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:15,319
Speaker 3: because when we think about the economy, we think about

981
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 3: it in terms of affordability. How much money am I making?

982
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 3: What can I afford? In a period of sagflation. You

983
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 3: fall behind so quickly when it comes to affordability, especially

984
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 3: if you lose your job and if prices are moving higher,

985
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 3: you can't afford things and you're not making money. That's

986
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 3: the worst trench to be in. We're not broadly, we're

987
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 3: not there yet right now, and I think the bar

988
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 3: is really high to get there for a few really

989
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 3: nerdy reasons, but mainly because the FED exists and it

990
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 3: has this dual mandate this two part job where it

991
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 3: has to watch inflation and it has to watch the

992
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 3: job market. And I think the Fed's hands are tied

993
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 3: right now. They're not sure what side to focus on more.

994
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 3: But if we do get further into this and there

995
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 3: is some economic damage, I think the side to focus

996
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 3: on will become abundantly clear and they'll be able to

997
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 3: do something about it. Something that a lot of people

998
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 3: don't know is that the Fed's dual mandate actually came

999
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 3: out of the nineteen seventies and the stagflation that we

1000
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 3: saw in the seventies that was ultimately that ultimately went

1001
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 3: into the eighties and was kind of smothered out by

1002
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 3: Paul Volker. Congress actually passed an act after that that

1003
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 3: set the Fed's dual mandate. So we have this like

1004
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 3: natural stabilizer there that wasn't there in the nineteen seventies.

1005
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 3: So I say all this to say, stagflation I think

1006
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 3: is still far away. You might feel inklings of it

1007
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 3: here and there, but the true conditions of awful stagflation

1008
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:41,280
Speaker 3: that affects that affects a large swath of the population,

1009
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 3: are still far away. And I think that there are

1010
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:44,240
Speaker 3: some counterbalances.

1011
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 2: Nice, awesome, Well, CALLI, thank you so much for taking

1012
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 2: the time to speak with us, everything from trading on

1013
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 2: your phone to stagflation, retirement finding, calm touch. I like

1014
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 2: how you're just even touching the table in front of you.

1015
00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 3: I like sipping hot tea. That's actually why I brought

1016
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 3: it up. When I feel anxious, I get a cup

1017
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 3: of tea and I just sip it and I meditate.

1018
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 3: And I think sounds corny, but that's what I do.

1019
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:09,280
Speaker 1: No, I think it like what you pointed to earlier,

1020
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: you need out of that is knitting.

1021
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:13,839
Speaker 3: Now you're saying I'm old.

1022
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:15,320
Speaker 1: Okay, then you're my grandma.

1023
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 2: You will be ready for a retirement at that point, Calli.

1024
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 2: But that's how we know. Yeah, No, seriously, we really

1025
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 2: appreciate taking the time, and of course we'll point folks

1026
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 2: over to your substack optimistic CALLI. But yeah, thank you

1027
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:28,720
Speaker 2: for hanging out with us today.

1028
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me. This was a lot of

1029
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 3: fun and hopefully the next conversation we have will be

1030
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 3: a little cheerier.

1031
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: Awesome, Thanks Cally. All Right, Matt, good convo with Calli,

1032
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:41,760
Speaker 1: and uh yeah, a lot of good information and hopefully

1033
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 1: just all about investing, I know, and hopefully just some

1034
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 1: a calming effect for the people out there who are

1035
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 1: worried about the future. And let's be honest, it's hard.

1036
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 1: It's hard not to be at least somewhat worried about

1037
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: the future, a.

1038
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,839
Speaker 2: Little bit anxious. Yeah, and wonder how much hot tea

1039
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:03,280
Speaker 2: Cali drinking these days. She's like, oh, I've noticed my

1040
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 2: my hot tea intake spiked significantly over the past three

1041
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 2: months exactly.

1042
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 1: But still there's a lot of reasons to be calm

1043
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 1: and to be excited about the future too. So what

1044
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 1: was your big takeaway from this combo?

1045
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 2: Well, I guess speaking to that, it's all about And

1046
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 2: something she said was to find comfort with whatever plan

1047
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 2: it is that you as an individual have come up with.

1048
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 2: And you know, she said, write it down, she said,

1049
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 2: she said, having hot tea that's a part of her plan. Like,

1050
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 2: I would love to see that written down somewhere as

1051
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 2: part of her you know, her twelfth step process to

1052
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 2: talk herself down from the ledge if she's feeling a

1053
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 2: little bit anxious about the markets, and you know how

1054
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 2: her investments are doing. But you find that comfort, but simultaneously,

1055
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 2: you don't abandon the overall plan that you know is

1056
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 2: going to lead to your financial future. Like it's a

1057
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:51,360
Speaker 2: it's like our own personal forget the FED, this is

1058
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 2: our own personal dual mandate that we have to somehow

1059
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 2: find a way to navigate, to find comfort, to not

1060
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 2: freak out at every headline or tweet or truth that

1061
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 2: gets pushed out there, to be able to stay the

1062
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 2: course and maybe be able to respond thoughtfully, but at

1063
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 2: the same time knowing that over the long haul, this

1064
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 2: is this is what we gotta do.

1065
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:12,359
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I like that a lot, and that that

1066
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 1: involves having a plan, right, So yeah, it's a good

1067
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 1: idea if you don't have one, to have one and

1068
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:18,840
Speaker 1: to write it out so that you know what to

1069
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 1: do first, that you're not just like knee jerk making

1070
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 1: bad decisions because you're emotional. And I get it. It's

1071
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:25,879
Speaker 1: it's hard not to be emotional sometimes, so you need

1072
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 1: the plan to help you avoid the worst impulses. I

1073
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 1: think my big takeaway was when she was like, I

1074
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 1: don't really pay attention to those predictions to the pessimist,

1075
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 1: and it's really hard when there's like a name like

1076
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 1: Vanguard or Golden Sacks attached to it, and.

1077
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 2: You're like JP Morgan, right, Jamie Diamond again, here he

1078
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 2: goes all.

1079
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, And all I can think sometimes when I

1080
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:48,479
Speaker 1: read those is like, there's a pool of highly paid

1081
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 1: people who wear much nicer suits than I do, because

1082
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 1: I literally have one suit that I don't wear very frequently.

1083
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 1: And my assumption is like, they know more than I do.

1084
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 1: I'm an idiot by comparison to the hive mind that

1085
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 1: they've got going on in these fancy New York office buildings.

1086
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: But that's not even true, that's not actually true. It

1087
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:08,479
Speaker 1: feels like that's true, but it's not. And so those

1088
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 1: predictions pessimism also sells like it's easier to trust somebody

1089
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 1: who has a dour prediction than someone who's like, I

1090
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 1: think things are going to be great. You just sound

1091
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 1: like an idiot when you say I think things are

1092
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 1: going to be great. But the truth is so much

1093
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 1: of the time, especially when it comes to markets, things

1094
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 1: are pretty good. So maybe we should listen to the

1095
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 1: optimists like Callie a little bit more less to the pessimists.

1096
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,319
Speaker 1: It's not that bad things can't happen, and we should

1097
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:37,479
Speaker 1: be prepared for those things, but it's also hey, maybe

1098
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: maybe don't assume that only bad things are in our future,

1099
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:41,800
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of good stuff coming around the

1100
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 1: bend too.

1101
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 2: That's right, man, all right. The beer that you and

1102
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 2: I got to enjoy during this episode was called Pineapple

1103
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 2: Vanilla Milkshake IPA by whistle Hoop Brewing Company. What did

1104
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 2: you think of this one, buddy, I'm gonna say this

1105
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:54,760
Speaker 2: one was okay.

1106
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 1: It was okay.

1107
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm with you. Yeah, and those one was not

1108
00:54:59,040 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 2: my favorite.

1109
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 1: I picked this one up at the Physical Brewery in

1110
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 1: in Ashville. The Physical Brewery really cool, A great place

1111
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 1: to take kids. I've into this place. Yeah, they got

1112
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:11,800
Speaker 1: little soccer nets and a little mini miniature golf course.

1113
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 2: So it's called whistle Hop in the whole places train theme. Yeah,

1114
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 2: so there's literally a train car that you can get

1115
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:19,360
Speaker 2: up in and we actually had the most fun sitting

1116
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 2: up what's it. I'm sure there's some train nerds out

1117
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:22,880
Speaker 2: there where you like climb up the little ladder and

1118
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 2: you're kind of sitting on the second floors looking out

1119
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 2: the window.

1120
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 1: Love that did you get to sit out there? I

1121
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 1: don't know what that's called, but yeah, they loved it.

1122
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 2: It's a it's a cool feature of a mode of

1123
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 2: transportation that we no longer take advantage of. But the

1124
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 2: hackers also go to Europe with the actual beer. Beer

1125
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 2: was left something to be desired. Yeah, and I had

1126
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 2: a good sour beer when I was there that I enjoyed.

1127
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 1: This one I just didn't enjoy as much. And I

1128
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 1: guess the pineapple maybe felt a little fake to.

1129
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 2: Me, a little heavy handed. And the milkshake I pas

1130
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 2: is a style that I've never been the biggest fan

1131
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:56,240
Speaker 2: of personally. Yeah, I was trying to go into it

1132
00:55:56,280 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 2: with an optimistic forecast, but I was mo even wrong.

1133
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 1: It happens. It happens. You can't win them all. And

1134
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: still cool brewery, definitely worth visiting, absolutely worth checking out,

1135
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 1: and good beers that I enjoyed my other beers, but

1136
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 1: this one not my favorite. All Right, that's gonna do it.

1137
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:15,399
Speaker 1: For this episode. We'll link to Calli's blog and some

1138
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,359
Speaker 1: of the other resources we mentioned on this episode up

1139
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 1: in the show notes at how to money dot com.

1140
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 2: You know it, buddy, So until next time, best Friends Out,

1141
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 2: Best Friends Out.