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Speaker 1: The guys from paying They've kind of showed me how

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Speaker 1: much the equipment matters.

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Speaker 2: I just love that I can hit any shot I

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Speaker 2: kind of want.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about

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Speaker 3: what goes on here to help golfers play better golf.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Ping Proving Grounds Podcast. I'm Shane Bacon.

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Speaker 1: That is Marty Jertsen.

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Speaker 3: Marty.

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Speaker 1: Today, we're going to talk about something that I'm very

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Speaker 1: interested in because I feel like, you know, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of things in golf we talk about our age

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Speaker 1: old debates. I feel like this is a exact debate.

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Speaker 1: This isn't age old. I mean, for years, the thought

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Speaker 1: process for professional golfers and good players was get the

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Speaker 1: ball in the fairway. You think about US Opens and

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Speaker 1: you know tough golf courses that we play each and

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Speaker 1: every week, and players were dedicated to find the fairway first,

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Speaker 1: and there was a lot of irons off tas and

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Speaker 1: that mentality over the last decade or two has totally

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Speaker 1: flipped and you're seeing I feel like it kind of

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Speaker 1: started back in the Tiger VJ days, when VJ would

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Speaker 1: just pound driver up fairways. They didn't care where it went.

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Speaker 1: And it's he's on from find the fairway, and that's

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Speaker 1: the benefit to beat it off the t as far

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Speaker 1: as you can hit it and go find it, and

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Speaker 1: that's the advantage. So today I want to discuss with

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Speaker 1: you driving in terms of distance versus accuracy and what

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Speaker 1: is more important. And I want to start with this,

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Speaker 1: when did technology shift? When did the idea of you

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Speaker 1: guys building golf clubs for distance in theory over accuracy,

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Speaker 1: or maybe distance being more important than in theory accuracy

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Speaker 1: shift like it did for the modern day player.

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Speaker 3: This topic is so juicy, and I think you brought

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Speaker 3: up the examples of VJ and Tiger. Tiger was that

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Speaker 3: great example where he was like one hundred and fiftieth

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Speaker 3: or one hundred and eightieth in fairways hit driving accuracy,

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Speaker 3: but he was obviously he was hitting it on average

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Speaker 3: at the time back in Tiger two thousand days or whatever,

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Speaker 3: like thirty yards twenty five thirty yards past the to

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Speaker 3: or average, and he had driving advantage. So I think

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Speaker 3: it was that culmination of like, okay, Tiger's doing this,

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Speaker 3: and then that con that metric of strokes gained and

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Speaker 3: we got to get we all the industry has to

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Speaker 3: give Mark Brody tons of credit for that absolutely writing

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Speaker 3: his book. So it's like, okay, then we're still kind

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Speaker 3: of connecting dots on those things to develop that kind

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Speaker 3: of you know, to answer this question really is and

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Speaker 3: it's really I think this is why I love doing

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Speaker 3: this podcast. It's not a binary answer. It's like what's

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Speaker 3: more important distance or accuracy in the answer. It's not

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Speaker 3: yes or no, right, this is there's nuance between those things.

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Speaker 3: And what's really cool is that we've used some of that,

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Speaker 3: like those analytics to help answer that question that we

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Speaker 3: could talk about today, which is really fun.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I kind of go back. I'm thirty

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Speaker 1: nine years old. You know, I was playing high school

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Speaker 1: golf in the late nineties early two thousands, and I

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Speaker 1: always felt like driving accuracy for me was the thing

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Speaker 1: I struggle the most with. You know, I would always

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Speaker 1: lean on the two iron. I went through a time

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Speaker 1: in college and just after college, or I don't want

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Speaker 1: to say I necessarily had the driver yips, but I

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Speaker 1: would hit this two iron all the time off teas

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Speaker 1: because I could hit it in the two fifty range,

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Speaker 1: you know, as a twenty two year old, and I

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Speaker 1: could live with that, and it's funny because now I

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Speaker 1: feel like the most reliable club in my bag in

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Speaker 1: terms of finding a fairwear having to hit a pressure

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Speaker 1: pack golf shot is the Driver. I mean, the Driver

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Speaker 1: has become one of my favorite clubs in terms of reliability,

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Speaker 1: and it's just so wild to think of, like the

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Speaker 1: old Shane and the way I thought about the driver

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Speaker 1: versus you know this twenty twenty three version where when

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Speaker 1: the hole's tight, I will tee the driver a little

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Speaker 1: bit lower and kind of squeeze it out there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's why you're seeing all the tour guys

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Speaker 3: do as well, so you're seeing the driver go straighter.

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Speaker 3: It's more forgiving. I think players know that driving is

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Speaker 3: super important, so they're practicing it a lot more. And

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Speaker 3: then certainly a lot of as Shane, which is we

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Speaker 3: can get into, is golf course dependent. I mean that

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Speaker 3: two iron going down there two fifty. You come back

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Speaker 3: here at Arizona and place some of these courses, and

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Speaker 3: that's like the only shot that the golf that the

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Speaker 3: hole gives you. Obviously, so there is a golf course

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Speaker 3: dependent condition around this, which is quite fun because then

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Speaker 3: we build tools to help answer that question. What's more

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Speaker 3: important distancer accuracy, and today we're going to talk about

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Speaker 3: this ratio of the two, Like what your golf course

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Speaker 3: penalty is is a big part of that equation, that

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Speaker 3: calculus for you as a golfer. But yeah, I think

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Speaker 3: we've seen a lot of players just both I think

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Speaker 3: embrace the analytics of it as well as the driver

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Speaker 3: being more forgiving and spending more time on that technique.

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Speaker 3: And I think you're seeing that kind of the modern

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Speaker 3: day and what you're experiencing me and the tour players

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Speaker 3: is that culmination of that intersection of both of those things.

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Speaker 1: And Marty, something I do want to do during this

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Speaker 1: conversation is really kind of separate maybe what a professional

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Speaker 1: golfer or a really good amateur golfer might think on

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Speaker 1: this topic versus that middling handicap player, because I do

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Speaker 1: feel like, and maybe this is just me, I like

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Speaker 1: your thoughts on this, but I feel like there's so

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Speaker 1: much talk about technology in the game, and it feels

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Speaker 1: like we always lean on what the pro is doing.

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Speaker 1: And I've had a couple buddies in my life that

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Speaker 1: when driving went from like leaning a little heavy on

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Speaker 1: the spin to be a little bit more accurate to

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Speaker 1: taking spin off of these drivers and launching it really

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Speaker 1: high and trying to get the most out of it

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Speaker 1: in terms of the way you're hitting the golf ball.

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Speaker 1: You know, you see Rory McRoy swing up at the

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Speaker 1: golf ball so much and launching at whatever thirteen or fourteen,

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Speaker 1: and you feel like people should be doing that. And

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Speaker 1: I'm interested in your thoughts on how players a ten handicap,

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Speaker 1: at twelve handicap, a fifteen handicap should approach driving because

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Speaker 1: it's their course dependent, Like you said, how do they

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Speaker 1: play their particular golf course, but it's also maybe what

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Speaker 1: suits the way they swing the golf golf club as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Shane, The way I like to frame this, the

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Speaker 3: very simple, is that the goal of a driver fitting

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Speaker 3: and just driving the golf ball is to maximize distance

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Speaker 3: while being mindful of dispersion. Right, Because so it's like

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Speaker 3: your goal is to hit as far as possible, but

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Speaker 3: you want to eliminate grow tesque misses that are going

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Speaker 3: to cause you penalty shots out of bounds, water, what

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Speaker 3: have you. Right, So it's to maximize distance while being

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Speaker 3: mindful of that dispersion. And for your club golfer, a

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Speaker 3: gain of twenty yards off the tee is going to

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Speaker 3: improve your strokes gain driving, ultimately lowering your score by

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Speaker 3: two point three shots. So twenty yards is going to

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Speaker 3: be two point three shots. If you're a PGA Tour player,

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Speaker 3: twenty yards is one shot, right because your your game's

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Speaker 3: already you know, everything's kind of already tightened up right,

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Speaker 3: so to speak. So that shows the value of gaining

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Speaker 3: distance for your club golfer is even more important from

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Speaker 3: a scoring standpoint, because after you drive it down there further,

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Speaker 3: you're gonna have kind of less chances to compound errors

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Speaker 3: between where you drive it and getting to the green right,

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Speaker 3: So it shows that there is even more importance for

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Speaker 3: the club golfer to hit the ball further. Now, let's

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Speaker 3: talk about accuracy. If for you to gain one shot

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Speaker 3: in accuracy, which is left right dispersion, the PGA Tour player,

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Speaker 3: if they tighten their their cone or their dispersion by

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Speaker 3: seven yards, that would improve their strokes game driving. They

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Speaker 3: would effectively save one shot around. But if you're that

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Speaker 3: same eighteen handicap er club golfer player, you would have

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Speaker 3: to improve your dispersion by ten yards. So you see,

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Speaker 3: we got in dispersion, we got seven yards. Ten yards

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Speaker 3: is one shot, but from distance we have twenty yards

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Speaker 3: being one shot around or two point three. So when

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Speaker 3: you kind of do the math on that ratio for

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Speaker 3: your club go, it's way more important or a bigger

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Speaker 3: premium even than your tour player to emphasize gaining distance.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's something we even the good fitters

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Speaker 3: out there might still have a little bit of that

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Speaker 3: that you know, bias from the past, where hey, we

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Speaker 3: need to tighten somebody's impact dispersion, We need to get

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Speaker 3: you to hit more fairways. Well if somebody's already hitting

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Speaker 3: it relatively straight. We've seen great success kind of shifting

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Speaker 3: that mindset in your fitting to be a little bit

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Speaker 3: more give yourself permission. Is the fitter to consider a

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Speaker 3: driver that might go further with uh maybe even the

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Speaker 3: same or a little bit more offline it could be

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Speaker 3: more beneficial for the player.

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Speaker 1: What's been so interesting about getting fit in my time

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Speaker 1: with ping is you'll get in the right head, or

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Speaker 1: you'll get in a head that is going to be

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Speaker 1: the one you're gonna use kind of your gamer head.

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Speaker 1: And then I and again, this is why it's so

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Speaker 1: important to get fit, in my opinion is then you

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Speaker 1: can manipulate loft, you can manipulate shaft. There's so much

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Speaker 1: to do, and I feel like so much the time

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Speaker 1: golfers blaming themselves for bad shots or bad swings or

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Speaker 1: to your point, dispersion issues. Right, Oh, this driver's going right,

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Speaker 1: I must be coming over the top of it, or

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Speaker 1: I must be doing something to pull this golf shot.

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Speaker 1: And it could simply be that shaft isn't right in

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Speaker 1: your golf club. And one of my favorite parts about

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Speaker 1: the fitting process is getting the head dialed, is getting

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Speaker 1: the loft dialed, and then going through those processes with

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Speaker 1: the shaft, because that shaft can do so much in

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Speaker 1: terms of kind of tightening things up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the shaft's a big deal. Shame when it comes

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Speaker 3: to when we're talking about that this topic of distance

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Speaker 3: and accuracy, because you can use the shaft and the

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Speaker 3: both the stiffness properties and all the weight and center

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Speaker 3: of gravity properties to change that left right dispersion right.

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Speaker 3: And a lot of times what you want to do

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Speaker 3: is maybe not change the shaft and the balance point

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Speaker 3: to get more draw bias to eliminate that right miss,

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Speaker 3: and then your psychology is freed up. You can have

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Speaker 3: more of your natural release pattern right type of thing,

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Speaker 3: and then you can swing harder and you hit it further,

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Speaker 3: and you know that that one out of four, one

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Speaker 3: out of five foul ball to the right is no

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Speaker 3: longer going to be in there. So a lot of

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Speaker 3: times it's gaining freedom from a specific miss type of thing.

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Speaker 3: But one of the fun things Shane and shafts, we're

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Speaker 3: talking about the concept of shafts here. The topic shafts

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Speaker 3: is how do we use shaft technology to influence this

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Speaker 3: distance versus accuracy topic? And a big thing that we've

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Speaker 3: done a lot of folks. I think for a while

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Speaker 3: we were a little controversial because we had our driver

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Speaker 3: at forty five and three quarters inches standard length right,

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Speaker 3: and everyone's like, oh, you know, the tour players are

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Speaker 3: playing drivers that are forty four and a half. You

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Speaker 3: need a tighten dispersion, you go shorter, you're gonna hit

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Speaker 3: it straighter. All these things are kind of floating out there.

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Speaker 3: We kept doing the research and we were like, well,

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Speaker 3: we don't really see a compelling reason to go shorter

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Speaker 3: as our stock length. We see that at a relatively

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Speaker 3: longer length the golfer's gonna have their is getting a

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Speaker 3: little technical, but shift their swinger actually a little more

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Speaker 3: to the right. They're gonna hit more up on the ball.

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Speaker 3: You mentioned Rory hitting more up a pod, more positive

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Speaker 3: angle of attack. Swinging more right is generally what a

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Speaker 3: lot of the club golfers that come over the top

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Speaker 3: and hit the wipe ye kind of slice out their need.

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Speaker 3: But how do we have that longer length without losing

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Speaker 3: without the club getting too heavy? Right? That's kind of

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Speaker 3: the where we needed to innovate, and we spend a

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Speaker 3: lot of time. We've evolved this technology over the last

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Speaker 3: decade plus of having super counterbalance shafts. So you look

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Speaker 3: at our quote unquote stock shaft we like to call

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Speaker 3: them proprietary, is called the Alta CB, and that CB

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Speaker 3: stands for counterbalance, Okay, and that really is the secret

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Speaker 3: sauchine of like the G four to thirty driver ALTA

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Speaker 3: shafts being forty five and three quarter, that's the swing

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Speaker 3: weight still perfect for the player. It's D two D

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Speaker 3: three whatever we need to do to optimize it, and

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Speaker 3: we still have a lot of mass in the head

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Speaker 3: so you can go longer, doesn't feel too heavy. To

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Speaker 3: the golfer, but we still have that mask to get momentum.

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Speaker 3: That's kind of all this is kind of working towards

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Speaker 3: that concept. We're putting a premium on our default build

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Speaker 3: to be biased for distance and while being mindful of accuracy.

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Speaker 1: All right, Marty, take me back to your initial designs

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Speaker 1: with the driver, because I can only imagine that as

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Speaker 1: you're designing drivers and you're going through that process, which

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Speaker 1: is so cool to see. I mean, you're literally building

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Speaker 1: these new clubs. You're you're finding I mean you've told

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Speaker 1: the turbulator story on this podcast before, but you're finding

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Speaker 1: ways to change the look or the feel or obviously

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Speaker 1: the design of a driver. What are you looking for

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Speaker 1: as you're going through that design process in terms of

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Speaker 1: both accuracy and distance, Like what are the numbers that

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Speaker 1: gets you excited? Are you gaining the five yards? Ten yards?

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Speaker 1: You know, ping man swinging this thing? And it's a

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Speaker 1: little tighter dispersion, like what are those numbers that you

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Speaker 1: guys are looking to see before you maybe take it

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Speaker 1: to your boss and go, hey, I think this is

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Speaker 1: the one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like trying to eke out some improvements. It

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Speaker 3: starts in the design world where we're just doing things

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Speaker 3: on the computer, Shane, It's like just modeling. Okay, if

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Speaker 3: I change this geometry, if I could get the wall

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Speaker 3: thickness thinner in this one area, if I can save

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Speaker 3: some weight from the crown, if I can save some

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Speaker 3: weight from the face, I can move that weight to

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Speaker 3: move the center of gravity lower and deeper. And when

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Speaker 3: I do that, the moment of inertia goes up. And

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Speaker 3: then we know predictively because we've made like we've made

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Speaker 3: some really cool prototypes here, Shane, where we can have

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Speaker 3: the same CG, but we can vary the moment of inertia.

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Speaker 3: We'll put on the robot, we hit it all over

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Speaker 3: the face, and we can kind of prove that hypothesis

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Speaker 3: that higher moment of inertia will help you hit it straighter. Right.

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Speaker 3: But the challenge is, and this is where I think

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Speaker 3: we have really done it ping, is we want to

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Speaker 3: have high MOI. And this was kind of a thought

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Speaker 3: in the market place for a long time. Oh, HIGHMI

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Speaker 3: drivers always spin a lot, right, Well, well, we broke

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Speaker 3: through that, right, you can have a high MOI driver

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Speaker 3: that spins low. It's what our LST is. And some

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Speaker 3: of these other things. So we're really trying to move

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Speaker 3: center gravity low, deep, but the right amount while maximizing MOI,

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Speaker 3: and then the payoff to the golfer is being able

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Speaker 3: to measure that both in player testing where we see

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Speaker 3: increases in ball speed, distance, carry and dispersion, and also

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Speaker 3: put it on the robot. And we put on the robot,

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Speaker 3: we can heat map the face, hit it all over

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Speaker 3: the face in a nine position test and see, Okay, yes,

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Speaker 3: I improve the moment of the inertia on this driver design,

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Speaker 3: or I change the face shaping like our sponsistency, and

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Speaker 3: we see higher ball speed across the face, we see

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Speaker 3: better dispersion, and then connect those dots. Ultimately, Shane, it's

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Speaker 3: the player testing because that's the real world what me

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Speaker 3: and you and our golfer out there is going to experience.

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Speaker 3: That is the most fun to look at in our

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Speaker 3: data analysis.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let me ask you this.

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Speaker 1: I know you've already kind of answered a little bit

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Speaker 1: of this, But let's say Guy A hits fourteen of

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Speaker 1: fourteen fairways, averages two to sixty off the tee versus

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Speaker 1: Guy B hits seven of fourteen fairways, and it's at

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Speaker 1: three hundred yards off the tee who is at the

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Speaker 1: advantage in golf in twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so if you're on an average penalty golf course,

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Speaker 3: that player that's forty yards down there. For those same

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Speaker 3: reasons we talked about, as long as as long as

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Speaker 3: those seven that missed the fairway aren't crazy exotically offline, right, So,

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Speaker 3: as long as your dispersion grows kind of like a cone.

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Speaker 3: That's a good way to kind of think of it,

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Speaker 3: is there's this cone out there, and that ratio of

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Speaker 3: distance to accuracy for the everyday golfer. We kind of

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Speaker 3: talked about that a little bit. What those numbers are

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Speaker 3: is two to one. So for every two yards you

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Speaker 3: gain in distance, you can live with one more yard

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Speaker 3: of offline. What does this mean? If you go get fit,

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Speaker 3: if you go take your game or driver, then you're

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Speaker 3: gonna go try our G four thirty with the alta

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Speaker 3: CB might be a little longer than what you're used to.

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Speaker 3: You got the launch conditions dialed in. It's twenty yards further. Right,

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Speaker 3: if your dispersion. Most of the time we see our

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Speaker 3: dispersion decreases because of all of our technology and inertia

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Speaker 3: and things of that nature. But if your dispersion is

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Speaker 3: is it doesn't grow by more than ten yards right,

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Speaker 3: you gain twenty down the fairway. As long as you

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Speaker 3: didn't grow by more than ten yards of offline left

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Speaker 3: or right, that will be a positive from a strokes

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Speaker 3: gain driving or a scoring standpoint. And quite frankly, it's

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Speaker 3: like it's fun. You can hit it by your buddies

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Speaker 3: and things of that nature. So what's really cool is

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Speaker 3: that when you can hit it twenty yards further, and

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Speaker 3: this is what we quite often see, and also keep

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Speaker 3: your dispersion or tighten it, then you're really gonna compound

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Speaker 3: those gains. And that's where you get more into the

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Speaker 3: You know, your your driver fit gained you three or

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Speaker 3: four shots around. We see that very often.

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Speaker 1: How do you find more distance all the time? I

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Speaker 1: think this is something that consumers ask a lot about

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Speaker 1: a new driver. Yeah, you know, this is the longest

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Speaker 1: driver ever made. This one's going longer. I can tell

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Speaker 1: you four thirty is longer than four to twenty five.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's been my personal experience.

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Speaker 3: It just is.

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Speaker 1: But how do you keep finding this distance in these

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Speaker 1: drivers while also maintaining a regulated driver by the USGA

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Speaker 1: and the RNA.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Shane. For us, it's all about compound interest.

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Speaker 3: It's it's it's stacking things. It's okay we come out

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Speaker 3: with a new technology, let's not take away something that

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Speaker 3: we already gave the golfer, right, and that is really

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Speaker 3: hard to do. It sounds easy, but it's really hard

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Speaker 3: to do so, and looking at the driver we were talking about,

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Speaker 3: shafts is a system. So our counterbalance shafts is a

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Speaker 3: super important part for most golfers that are playing our

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Speaker 3: all to CB at forty five and three quarter, optimizing

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Speaker 3: the headway and being able to deliver that to the golfer.

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Speaker 3: So I think stacking things like the shaft the system

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Speaker 3: design going a little bit longer, stacking with the G

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Speaker 3: four to thirty. It's the thinnest face we've ever had,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of that is borne through our modeling techniques,

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Speaker 3: a lot of super compute and things we're doing on

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Speaker 3: the golf physics side. It's s consistency because you don't

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Speaker 3: want to go out and pick the driver that you

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Speaker 3: hit the furthest with your one best shot. That's something

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Speaker 3: that I think you've seen our fitters and golfers get

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Speaker 3: more used to is go out and evaluate drivers and

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Speaker 3: look at your dispersion on all ten or twenty shots

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Speaker 3: and your average distance on all those hits, because things

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Speaker 3: like sponsistency, you're going to give you more distance when

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Speaker 3: you hit it low on the face. So Shane, when

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Speaker 3: you're experiencing the four thirty going further, me too. A

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Speaker 3: lot of it is we're not hitting it perfect. Every

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Speaker 3: time your team at low you're hitting your stingers out there,

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Speaker 3: they're going further. A lot of that is impacts that

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Speaker 3: aren't perfectly centered right, So it's adding that up. It's

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Speaker 3: adding moment of inertiaup. It's more ball speed through materials,

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Speaker 3: face design, more clubheits be through turbulators. You start stacking

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Speaker 3: all these things up and that's where you get that

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Speaker 3: compound interest and you can have drivers and we're we're

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Speaker 3: doing it. We're seeing in real life that keep going

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Speaker 3: a little bit further and or a little bit straight

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Speaker 3: every time we launch one out in the market.

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Speaker 1: How much is the sweet spot focused in design versus

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Speaker 1: around the face? Because you know, like that hot toe

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Speaker 1: has been a big top topic over the last few years.

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Speaker 2: You know, if you hit the ball.

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Speaker 1: On that top left part of the driver, it's a mishit,

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Speaker 1: but it can still go plenty far. That was not

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Speaker 1: the case, you know, fifteen twenty years ago. How much

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Speaker 1: I don't know. You mentioned the nine spots on the

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Speaker 1: driver you do with the robot test team. How much

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Speaker 1: is the focus on not just the sweet spots in

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Speaker 1: terms of where you're hitting these golf clubs specifically a driver,

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Speaker 1: but the mishits, Like, how can you gain the most

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Speaker 1: out of a mishit for the average player?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's huge, and we've done a lot of research

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Speaker 3: on what does that dispersion pattern look like for the

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Speaker 3: better player, what does it look like for your everyday golfer?

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Speaker 3: And for your everyday golfer, that impact dispersion where you

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Speaker 3: hit around the faces of the obviously way bigger. So

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Speaker 3: we put more of a priority on a moment of

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Speaker 3: inertia on our max driver that's going to spin the

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Speaker 3: appropriate amount for that golfer, right because their impact dispersion

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Speaker 3: is a little bit bigger. This gets pretty nuanced, though, Shane,

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Speaker 3: because what we've come to find out in this kind

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Speaker 3: of fresh research is that the tour player also benefits

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Speaker 3: from super high inertia, and the reason why is because

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Speaker 3: the consequence of their misses at more distance and more

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Speaker 3: speed is more severe. So very high inertia driver for

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Speaker 3: a high speed player is also super beneficial. I think

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Speaker 3: the conclusion is high inertia and high forgiveness. Basically what

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Speaker 3: your question was, impact around the face is a very

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Speaker 3: big deal for all levels of golfers, and so we

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Speaker 3: prioritize that through our testing that we do. I think

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Speaker 3: using the CG shifter can kind of move where that

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Speaker 3: perfect quote unquote sweet spot is or where the CG is,

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Speaker 3: and it's a really big deal. I think we can

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Speaker 3: evaluate it in the fitting process. That thought, that kind

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Speaker 3: of concept of the high toe shot, which is high

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Speaker 3: you know, top left of the face for you, top

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Speaker 3: right of the face for me, is a little bit

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Speaker 3: that that that idea that you need to hit it

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Speaker 3: in the high toe to get your furthest distance has

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Speaker 3: kind of gone away. It was a it was something

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Speaker 3: that exists, existed when when drivers had too high of

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Speaker 3: spin to be perfect if you hit it in the

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Speaker 3: middle of the face. So what would happen with that

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Speaker 3: high toeball You would hit it in the high toe

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Speaker 3: and you would actually lose ball speed, right, Okay, but

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Speaker 3: you spun it way less, and because you spun it

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Speaker 3: way less, the ball would go further. So it actually

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Speaker 3: wasn't the quote unquote hot spot from a ball speed standpoint,

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Speaker 3: but it was the hot spot from a distance standpoint.

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Speaker 3: Now we've innovated on our drivers, moved the CG lower.

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Speaker 3: Now your centered hit hopefully we'll have those perfect launch conditions. Right.

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Speaker 3: So if the high towball goes the furthest for you,

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Speaker 3: it means that your center hit is probably too high

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Speaker 3: of spin to begin with. So that's just kind of

434
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 3: something to be mindful of in the modern day of

435
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 3: how we're kind of trying to dial in launch and spin. Marty.

436
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 1: There was a time in I believe it was the

437
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 1: early two thousands and it wasn't so much a paying thing,

438
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 1: but some other manufacturers came out with some different design

439
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 1: golf clubs, and I think a lot of this was,

440
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,919
Speaker 1: as you said, you know, throwing some information into a

441
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,160
Speaker 1: computer and they basically you know, putting out the output.

442
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 1: Was this design is going to make the most sense.

443
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I remember there were triangle golf drivers, there

444
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 1: were square drivers. Do you think we'll ever go back

445
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 1: to that? Is there ever going to be a point

446
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 1: where that is, again what the computer tells us makes

447
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:46,639
Speaker 1: the most sense.

448
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 3: I think what we saw with those it was, hey,

449
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 3: you know, yes, you had a rule, or something like,

450
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 3: you have a rule, let's try to go right to

451
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 3: the edge of the wall of the room. Right. So,

452
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 3: for example, if we wanted to make the highest MOI

453
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 3: driver from a heel toe impact standpoint, something square ish

454
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 3: might make sense. But as a golfer Shane me and you,

455
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 3: we don't miss our drivers on a perfectly straight line

456
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 3: heal in tight totally. We miss them high and low

457
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 3: and an ellipse pattern, and all of us have different

458
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 3: ellipse patterns and shapes that are a little bit tilted.

459
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 3: So if you get myopically focused on maximizing one thing,

460
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 3: I think the lesson learned is that that will cost

461
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 3: you an overall performance. So that is I think the

462
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 3: big challenge that we're after in product development and fitting

463
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 3: and this topic of distance versus accuracy. There's nuance to

464
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 3: all these things, and so how do you maximize overall performance?

465
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 3: How can you have high inertial heel toe and high

466
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 3: inertia high low and marry those two things together. And

467
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 3: that's where our driver's designs have kind of been geared

468
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 3: towards that overall on the course, all around performance. You

469
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 3: can have distance and accuracy together. It's not a it's

470
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 3: no longer a choice like high m I H high spin,

471
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,439
Speaker 3: you're gonna hit it shorter, right. You can have both.

472
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 3: You can have the ball speed, you can have the

473
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 3: perfect launch conditions, you can have the M I. And

474
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 3: it's all positive some and it's going to compound together.

475
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 1: Marty, I mean shout out to the stack system for this,

476
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,199
Speaker 1: because I'm sure this is an answer at times. But

477
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 1: what do you think or what do your fitters tell

478
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,959
Speaker 1: you when they have players come through. How often are

479
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: they speaking of I want more distance versus I want

480
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 1: to hit it straighter.

481
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I'm so.

482
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 2: Distance right right right? I'm assuming that's the that's the

483
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 2: point people make.

484
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 3: Is I want to hit the ball longer, Yes, it is.

485
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 3: I mean we do run into this scenario, which is,

486
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 3: you know, you get some players that hit like foul balls, right,

487
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 3: that's what you don't want, right that that's where we

488
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 3: can do some things in the club design to help

489
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 3: eliminate the foul balls. You might need to work on

490
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 3: your swing a little bit as long as you're not

491
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,360
Speaker 3: here in the foul balls. Exactly, as long as you're

492
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 3: not hitting the foul balls, you should be focusing on

493
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 3: distance to accurate versus accuracy at a ratio of three

494
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 3: to one if you're a tour player and two to

495
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 3: one if you're a club golfer. We have some great

496
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 3: examples of the Shane like Victor Hoblin is an awesome example.

497
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:24,439
Speaker 3: This from let's see two thousand and twenty to right now.

498
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 3: He has gained like eight to ten yards. If you

499
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 3: go to Data Golf, look up his data, he has

500
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 3: gained eight to ten yards and he's lost like one

501
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 3: or two percent accuracy, but his strokes gained driving per round.

502
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 3: So he's an example that gained distance, lost a little

503
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 3: bit of accuracy. But the net benefit I think is

504
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 3: he's he is a strokes gain driving improved like point

505
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 3: three shots around some are right in there. That's a

506
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 3: shot of tournament right and the distance he's gained in

507
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 3: the speed has helped his iron play. And Shane. One

508
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 3: thing we interviewed Joaquin and we also know this about Victor.

509
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 3: Both of them play a driver that's forty five and

510
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 3: three quarter or Joaquin's like almost forty six, right, okay,

511
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 3: so give yourself permission. I think for the listener out

512
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 3: there to consider a driver over forty five in a quarter,

513
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 3: right our tour average. I did a poll on Twitter actually,

514
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,439
Speaker 3: I said, hey, what do you think the average driver

515
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 3: distance is with our tour staff? And I put like

516
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 3: forty four, forty four and a half, forty five, forty

517
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 3: five and a quarter or something like that, And I

518
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 3: kind of did it in that way on purpose. The

519
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 3: right answer is forty five and a quarter. What most

520
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 3: people picked was forty four and a half. I cannot

521
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 3: believe people still think the average driver length is shorter

522
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 3: than it actually is. And again, a lot of that

523
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 3: goes to the fact that our driver's so forgiving you

524
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 3: can play a little bit longer, and Victor has really

525
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 3: enjoyed that.

526
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 1: Marty, I know you're always a guy that's trying to

527
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: simplify this for the player. You're always looking at online

528
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: tools and things to get to your fitters, to make

529
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: it easier for someone at home to understand, because there's

530
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 1: so much nuance that goes into these types of topics.

531
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: Is there a tool you're working on or a tool

532
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 1: you have developed that can help people kind of understand

533
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: driver distance versus driving accuracy and maybe kind of marry

534
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 1: those two things together.

535
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, Shane, let me see if I can share my

536
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 3: screen here a little bit.

537
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,239
Speaker 1: A reminder, by the way, these are the podcasts are

538
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: all on YouTube, So if you ever want to see

539
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,239
Speaker 1: what Marty's talking about, if he mentions that, just go

540
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: to YouTube and check it out. Because a lot of

541
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: these tools are very, very helpful to understand.

542
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this one, Shane, is super cool, and this

543
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 3: answers that nuance question like what is more important distance

544
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 3: or accuracy? Right, so you can go into this tool.

545
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 3: This tool is awesome. We use this tool. This is

546
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 3: in our Pink copilot so our fitters will have access

547
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 3: to this. We've been using it internally at the proving grounds,

548
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 3: kind of proving it out, using it with our players,

549
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 3: and it's basically like a strokes gained calculator to determine, hey,

550
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 3: I'm hitting this driver a little bit further. The dispersion

551
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 3: is this because it's hard to like take two drivers

552
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 3: in a fitting and go simulate fairways hit or take

553
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 3: them on the course and things of that nature. That's

554
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 3: what tour players do. We want to build a tool

555
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 3: that gives you that same level of access. So we

556
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 3: built this tool. It's called Club Compare, and you can

557
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 3: go in here and pick like, okay, I got the

558
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,360
Speaker 3: G four to thirty versus my gamer, and you can

559
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 3: put in how much the distance you're hitting the four

560
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 3: thirty and then you take this number that you can

561
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 3: get on a launch monitor. So this is really cool.

562
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 3: You can actually have a measurement of your dispersion and

563
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 3: either in a track man or foresight, both of them.

564
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 3: It's kind of this plus or minus of side or

565
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 3: plus or minus of offline, and that gives us a

566
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 3: quantitative metric for your left right dispersion. So you can

567
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 3: go into this tool and put in your offline that

568
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 3: you had with the four thirty in your fitting. They

569
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 3: could say, okay, my gamer I came in with when

570
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 3: a little bit shorter and the dispersion Let's say this

571
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 3: version was the same, but you picked up like ten yards.

572
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 3: And this also answers that question of nuance Shane, if

573
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 3: of it's dependent on your handicap, So if you're a

574
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,959
Speaker 3: higher handicap golfer, it's going to have that intelligence in

575
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,719
Speaker 3: there that it's going to put more importance on distance

576
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 3: relative to accuracy versus a tour player or a lower

577
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 3: handicap golfer. So you will get right here, you see

578
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 3: we caught. Okay, we have the same dispersion. We gain

579
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 3: ten yards and I think I put in eighteen handicapper.

580
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,719
Speaker 3: That's one point one strokes gained from your distance, and

581
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 3: obviously you have you have the same offline, So the

582
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 3: strokes gains is not going to be an improvement and offline,

583
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 3: but your total strokes gain is going to be one

584
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 3: point one to eight. And we give you this little

585
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 3: picture of on course. What does that mean from you

586
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 3: from an Ellipse standpoint? So this tool, let's go in

587
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,719
Speaker 3: here real quick and say, okay, let's say if your

588
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 3: dispersion with your gamer was also so we gained distance

589
00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 3: and decreased dispersion, you click find a winner, right and

590
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 3: you will get Now you gain two point six strokes

591
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 3: game driving, we have you hitting it further and tighter.

592
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 3: So not only can you use this tool to compare

593
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 3: your gamer versus our four to thirty if you go

594
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 3: get fit for you can also compare I want to

595
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 3: try the four to thirty at a longer length, different

596
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 3: shaft versus the four to thirty with our tour shaft

597
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 3: shorter and do that ab comparison and get some real

598
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 3: quantitative analytics on on a driver comparison in a fitting.

599
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 3: So our fitters here at the proving groundsmen absolutely loving

600
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 3: this tool.

601
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and for those that are listening that aren't watching

602
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: this on YouTube, I mean just to kind of, you know,

603
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: talk you through how simple this is. When you input,

604
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,479
Speaker 1: you put your handicap in, you put how difficult your

605
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: golf course is. There's three options in terms of your

606
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: home club and where you're playing easy, medium or hard,

607
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,719
Speaker 1: which is very very important obviously to understand where you're

608
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: playing your golf and then from there you just basically

609
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: to Marty's point, can input and use this slider device

610
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: to compare the four point thirty versus the game or

611
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: you're using and boom, you hit a button and it

612
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: explains it both with picture and information.

613
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 2: So uh, I love Marty. I love this stuff.

614
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: I love what you're doing in terms of the technology,

615
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: not just for the player but for your fitters at home,

616
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: because it's not always easy to explain to golfers what

617
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: you're trying to have them understand. This helps them understand

618
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: that without the fitter having to slam it in their.

619
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 3: Head exactly, Shane, and I think you brought up a

620
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 3: good point that actually missed on the tool, is you

621
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 3: put in your golf course difficulty. So right, let's get

622
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 3: some real life examples in Arizona. A very hard, penalizing

623
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 3: driving course here would be like true country club or

624
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 3: desert for us, right, right, So if you play most

625
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 3: of your golf there, you can put that in, and

626
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 3: now that priority is going to be way more geared

627
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 3: toward dispersion over distance. Let's say you put in Papago

628
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 3: or Dobson or something like that. Yet that would be

629
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 3: quote unquote easy driving course because there's not a lot

630
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 3: of penalty right on the end. We actually develop those

631
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 3: metrics based off of Kapalua on the PGA Tour is

632
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 3: quote unquote the easiest driving course. It has the least

633
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 3: penalty you kind of hit it anywhere. Then a very

634
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 3: hard driving course is a Honda event. It was a

635
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 3: pg National. Yeah, very penalizing if you missed the fairway.

636
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: So that kind of gives folks a spectrum, and that's

637
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 3: what's important to consider where you play golf. Obviously, if

638
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 3: you move all around, play all over the place you'd

639
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 3: put medium because that kind of handles everything. But this

640
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 3: tool handles all that level of complexity, math and nuance,

641
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 3: and it makes it super actionable for our fitters. So

642
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 3: you can have this conversation and go figure out what's

643
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 3: more important versus accuracy for you in your fitting.

644
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: So bring it back to the start Marty. It sounds

645
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: like we have an answer here. It sounds like there

646
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: is an answer to the question what's more important, And

647
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: it feels like in twenty twenty three, distance is more important.

648
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 2: Is that fair to say.

649
00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 3: Distance is more important? It's not a binary question, but

650
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 3: if we frame it that way, distance is more important.

651
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 3: But but we've cracked the code. There's a ratio. There's

652
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 3: a ratio of distance accuracy, and we got tools to

653
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 3: evaluate it. It's important for both fitters and golfers alike

654
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 3: to kind of understand that ratio. And hopefully this is

655
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 3: help some fitters. Give yourself permission to consider having your

656
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 3: driver go further. Our high inertia allows you to get

657
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 3: away with it. Our shafts, our counterbalance allow you to

658
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 3: go to a little bit longer. The tour players are

659
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 3: playing longer length drivers than you think Victor, Joaquin, all

660
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 3: these guys, So hopefully this is help folks, and it

661
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 3: quite frankly, Shane, it's fun to hit it far.

662
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 2: It's a lot more fun.

663
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: I'll say that it's more fun when you're vomited by

664
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: your buddies. How often is distance brought up by tour players?

665
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: You mentioned Victor, You've obviously mentioned Joaquin. Tony is a

666
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: guy that's kind of effortlessly long. I mean, he can

667
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: hit it much further if he wanted to on tour,

668
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: but he's a little bit more of the guy that's

669
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 1: kind of take a distance off to hit a little

670
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: bit more controlled t ball. How often are they talking

671
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: about distance on a week to week basis, considering how

672
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: obsessed it feels like we are with the players that

673
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: hit it the longest.

674
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,919
Speaker 3: Shane, that is such a great question. The super long

675
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 3: hitters like Tony, he used to be longer. He could

676
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 3: hit it longer. We've seen him hit at four hundred

677
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,240
Speaker 3: yards in Utah if he wanted to write. The guys

678
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 3: who are already really long there, they just want to

679
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 3: be mindful of the just the dispersion, because after you

680
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 3: hit it so far down there, there's kind of a

681
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 3: there's an ass toad to with you reach, or a

682
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 3: ceiling that you reach. We're hitting it. For Tony to

683
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 3: hit a ten yards further won't actually gain him that much,

684
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 3: Like it's more about hitting the fairway. But if you're

685
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 3: Victor who was more average speed four years ago when

686
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 3: he first came on tour. Now he's way above average,

687
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 3: but when he was average, I mean I played with

688
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 3: him in the Phoenix Open and he was I was

689
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 3: hitting it by him, you know a little bit, but

690
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 3: he was. He was asking me about it. He was

691
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 3: you could tell it was on his mind, Like, Man,

692
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 3: I wish I could carry those bunkers that are those

693
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 3: cross bunkers that Tony doesn't have to worry about, but

694
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 3: I do. Like this is very agitating.

695
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, like the bunker on three, the par five, It's

696
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: like if I can just kind of get it past

697
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:13,879
Speaker 1: those after us.

698
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:15,320
Speaker 2: Then it makes that a par five now is a

699
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 2: par four.

700
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, So that is on the mind. So your tour

701
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 3: players that are average speed in below, it's always on

702
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 3: their mind. And that's where you see him doing speed training.

703
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 3: They're working on the stack. They're the ones that asking us, hey,

704
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 3: trying a different scheft trying to go a little bit longer,

705
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 3: experimenting with it. So it's you have these two groups.

706
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,280
Speaker 3: I would say the ones that are average in below

707
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 3: they're trying to eke out because they know there is

708
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 3: that real value. And then you have the players that

709
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 3: are super long. They're more about being mindful of of

710
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 3: of you know, hitting more fairways.

711
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 2: Marty.

712
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,359
Speaker 1: Have you seen Tony just go after like just unleash one,

713
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: because I mean you can see it when he's playing

714
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: torquelf you can see that it's seventy ish percent. Have

715
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: you seen them really go after one before?

716
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 3: Not lately, Shane, but when he was playing like the

717
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 3: Mini Tours and all heah break and all that stuff,

718
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 3: that's when his swing, that's when he used to used

719
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,879
Speaker 3: to go after it. So I remember seeing him do that, like,

720
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 3: you know, twelve twelve years ago, twelve fourteen years ago,

721
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 3: when he was when he was playing the little mini

722
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 3: Tours and his swing was you know, before him and

723
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 3: Boyd kind of tightened it up into the world class

724
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 3: player that he is. But I have not seen him

725
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 3: do that lately outside of when he was having fun

726
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 3: in Utah there a couple summers ago.

727
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: I remember playing with Bubba years ago. I mean this

728
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: was this was probably ten eleven, twelve years ago, and

729
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: I think it was the last hole.

730
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 2: We were playing a scramble.

731
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 1: It was a charity event, and the last hole he

732
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 1: looked at me and he goes, do you want me

733
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: to hit the draw? And I said I I'd love

734
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: to see it. And he hit just this dead straight ball.

735
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: It probably cut a yard or two, but he probably

736
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: went twenty twenty five yards longer than any t shot

737
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 1: he'd hit throughout the day.

738
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 2: And he kind of turned around and smiled. He said,

739
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 2: did you like my draw?

740
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 3: You know?

741
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 1: And that was him just having that he had a

742
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: little bit more of a gear, right.

743
00:36:58,239 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 2: He's not gonna lean on that in an event.

744
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 1: May he does if it's an open fairway or wide

745
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 1: open golf course like Kapalua, but he knows he can

746
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: go in the bag and grab fifteen more yards if

747
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,359
Speaker 1: he really needs to. And what a benefit that is

748
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 1: to a professional golfer to just have that back in

749
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: the bag if you need it.

750
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 3: I think a good example. One of the Masters that

751
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 3: he won thirteen at Augusta was kind of downwind. H

752
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,879
Speaker 3: had the straight ball that went way down, way down,

753
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 3: there and he had sand wedge in or whatever.

754
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 1: I remember fourteen, Yeah, I mean he hit hit like

755
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 1: three fifty over the trees and everybody, Marty, remember it

756
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: was in the air, and everybody thought he'd hit it

757
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:32,280
Speaker 1: in the trees.

758
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 3: And he was gonna lose the mask exactly same. Yeah, No,

759
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 3: I thought the same thing. But I've seen him here

760
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 3: in the launch pad out the proving grounds. He's hitting

761
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 3: his his cut that he's hitting down on it like

762
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 3: four or five degrees, three degrees, hitting down, swinging to

763
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 3: the right for him as the lefty like you, and

764
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 3: hit that big cut and then he'll he'll he is

765
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 3: the most amazing in changing his delivery because then one

766
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 3: swing later he hits up six. His angle attack goes

767
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 3: from down four to up six and he hits it

768
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,439
Speaker 3: like thirty yards longer. And I think the lesson learned

769
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 3: for the everyday golfer is that straightening your ballflight will

770
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 3: gain you distance. Okay, and uh, if you have ample

771
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 3: speed like you, you can hit little cuts for control

772
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 3: and things of that nature, but you don't want to

773
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 3: be curving it too much, because then that's going to

774
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 3: start costing you too much distance. Going back to this,

775
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 3: topic today, which is what is more important distance or accuracy.

776
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 3: So you know, we see the only the very long

777
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,399
Speaker 3: tour players hitting it with a significant amount of curve,

778
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 3: most of them when they're hitting draws and fades, it's

779
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 3: pretty minor, like your beautiful little cut you've been hitting

780
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 3: down hitting down there lately.

781
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just so tight.

782
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 1: When you go watch the modern day professional hit t shots,

783
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 1: they're just tight. I mean, they don't want this a

784
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: whole munch. Like their goal or what they're practicing is

785
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: hitting that ball is straight as humanly possible and launching

786
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 1: it without much side spe in. And that is again

787
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,399
Speaker 1: so different than what we saw, you know, a decade ago,

788
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: where players would lean a little bit more on the

789
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: side spin to help them get the ball in the fairway.

790
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: It's just so wild how all of this stuff changes

791
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: and deviates and improves, and a lot of it comes

792
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: down to the technology that people like you and Ping

793
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: do to make it easier on the golfer.

794
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,280
Speaker 2: So it's very cool to see.

795
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: I'm playing golf after this podcast, and I'm so excited

796
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 1: to go out there and just try to hit straight

797
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: balls like that's my aunt of golf.

798
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 3: Don't need to move it.

799
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:31,720
Speaker 1: Let's hit it straight, Let's get it in the fairway,

800
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:33,439
Speaker 1: and let's let the distance do its job.

801
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 3: Shane I called the not so dreaded straight ball because

802
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 3: the straight ball goes the furthest.

803
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: Don't be scared of the straight ball. And you know

804
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 1: what else, don't don't be scared of the straight putt.

805
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: They go in as well. Everybody always gets so weird

806
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: when the puts straight. You go, no, just knock that

807
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: in the back of the hole.

808
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 2: Just hit the driver straight.

809
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: You don't have to move it, even if the whole

810
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: kind of miable's left to right a little bit. But

811
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: a very interesting topic, and I think one people are

812
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,399
Speaker 1: going to really like because you know, the driver has

813
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 1: become the most important club in the back. I think

814
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: the putter used to be it, but it feels like

815
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,439
Speaker 1: the driver is the most important and it's the one

816
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: people are the most intrigued by and the one I

817
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: think people are always looking at in terms of changing

818
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: the club in their bags. So great insight, Marty. And

819
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 1: again just a reminder if you're listening to this, If

820
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: you downloaded the podcast and you want to kind of

821
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: see what Marty was talking about, go on YouTube. You

822
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: can even fast forward to the time stamp in terms

823
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,760
Speaker 1: of when this landed and when we really got in

824
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: to the tools. But I think it's great to visually

825
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 1: look at what Marty was talking about because it'll help

826
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: you understand the benefits of bringing up some of these

827
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: tools that you guys have and some of the tools

828
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: you guys have out there for your fitters.

829
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, Shane. I think what we've tried to do is,

830
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,840
Speaker 3: like you know what, you can get very confused or

831
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,359
Speaker 3: stuck in a fitting in even our fitters, like what

832
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 3: numbers should I be looking at? Right? So these tools

833
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 3: that we're building into Copilot helped make that super actionable.

834
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,439
Speaker 3: Trying to make again that make the complex simple. Which

835
00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 3: driver's going to be better, Like you know, this one

836
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 3: a little further but that one went a little bit straighter,

837
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 3: and and it doesn't mean you need to lean on

838
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,879
Speaker 3: this to one hundred percent make your decision, but use

839
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 3: that with all the other things that you're experiencing in

840
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,879
Speaker 3: the fitting to to help upgrade your decision. And uh, yeah,

841
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 3: this is a super fun topic. I think folks are

842
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 3: gonna enjoy this. Uh you know, it's it's kind of

843
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 3: like a never ending debate, you know, distance versus accuracy.

844
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 3: So hopefully folks will level up their knowledge a little

845
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 3: bit after this pod.

846
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: Marty, let's mark it down in two years. Let's do

847
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: this topic again and see if it's the same.

848
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 3: Oh, I love it.

849
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 2: We'll do it. We'll do it at twenty five and

850
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 2: see what comes up. That is Marty. I'm Shane and

851
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 2: this is the Paying Proving Grounds Podcast.