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Speaker 1: Hey, what up? Doug Gottlieb here and thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for downloading this All Ball podcast. You are gonna love this,

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Speaker 1: love it um. Today's guest is the head coach of

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Speaker 1: Liberty University and uh man, I've gone Richie for a

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Speaker 1: long at the I remembered for a long time, I

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Speaker 1: didn't realize that he recruited me to or try to

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Speaker 1: recruit me to go to Washington and I didn't go.

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Speaker 1: He actually Richie McKay end up getting landing Jason Terry

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Speaker 1: that year. But if for people that remember Jason Terry

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Speaker 1: flipped at the last second, went to Arizona and then

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Speaker 1: a couple of years later they end up getting Dan Dick.

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Speaker 1: How that was after he was gone. But Richard McKay's

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Speaker 1: dad coach at Liberty. The Flames are getting ready for

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Speaker 1: the n s A Tournament. They're taken on Oklahoma State,

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Speaker 1: Mile Matter and Kay Cunningham. He's had a mere curial,

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Speaker 1: crazy journey, um where start off and Indie made his

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Speaker 1: way to the Pacific Northwest playing college basketball, played overseas,

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Speaker 1: came back to Seattle, bounced around back to Seattle with

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Speaker 1: you dub, went to Portland State. Uh uh Portland's state,

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Speaker 1: Oregon State, color or Portland state, Colorado State, Oregon State,

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Speaker 1: and then ultimately New Mexico got fired. In New Mexico,

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Speaker 1: we got a lot to get to. So, UM, I

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Speaker 1: think what I'm gonna do is record a special pod

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Speaker 1: with some picks and maybe dropped that tomorrow. What do

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Speaker 1: you guys say before the tournament starts? I know, the

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Speaker 1: first four starts, then record some picks. Um, But I

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Speaker 1: thought you'd really enjoy this conversation with a guy who has,

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Speaker 1: you know, by his own accounts, own accounts, he's gone

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Speaker 1: through some ups and downs in this business. But the

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Speaker 1: ups Liberty would have gone last year likely to the tournament,

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Speaker 1: and they did go two years ago and they did

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Speaker 1: pull an upset. And now they got Oklahoma State that

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Speaker 1: they're they're staring down at the Bureau of and we'll

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Speaker 1: see if they can pull off that upset. Is thirteen

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Speaker 1: seed taken on the floor. The head coach of the

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Speaker 1: Liberty Flames is Richard McKay. He joins me, Now, taken

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Speaker 1: back your first memories of hoop when and I think

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Speaker 1: I was I don't know, five or six and had

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Speaker 1: a nerve hoop and I was balling on the nerve hoop,

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Speaker 1: doug like deep range reverse dunks, all the above. Did

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Speaker 1: you have did you have? My dad and mom, they

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Speaker 1: had their door to their bedroom. There's like a closet

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Speaker 1: next to it on the right hand side, so I

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Speaker 1: had the ability to shoot the ball off the side

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Speaker 1: and then off the like wall, and like I had

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Speaker 1: all the trick shots as well. And then my brother

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Speaker 1: and I we would play like these vicious games of

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Speaker 1: one on one full court dunk hoop because they had

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Speaker 1: they had like a little kind of alleyway in their bedroom.

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Speaker 1: And so what was the nerve hoop set up? Okay,

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Speaker 1: all of that I had an old brother, were getting

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Speaker 1: fights every day, and uh we we had the we

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Speaker 1: had the JV version of the nerve food, you know,

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Speaker 1: the net and that was all jacked up and U

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Speaker 1: it was yeah. You know, my dad played at the

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Speaker 1: University of Mexico and he's from Indianapolis Snaptown. Uh, it's

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Speaker 1: where who's just hysteria lived. So basketball was just it

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Speaker 1: was prevalent in our home. It was always talked about.

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Speaker 1: That's where I got my passion for it. Um, how

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Speaker 1: dinna play it with you? Uh? Not as good as you,

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Speaker 1: But uh, you know, I loved the game and I

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Speaker 1: eight slept and uh and breathed it. So I was

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Speaker 1: highly competitive and ended up playing at Seattle Pacific and

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Speaker 1: then overseas for a couple of years. I really, I

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Speaker 1: really got the most out of my ability just because

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Speaker 1: of how many hours I spent in it or on it.

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Speaker 1: But I never really thought I'd coach, but would love

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Speaker 1: to play. Okay, so out of Pacific, who's your coach?

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Speaker 1: Getting claud Terry? You remember coach Terry, don't you? He

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Speaker 1: was the all time at the time. He was the

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Speaker 1: all time leading scorer at Stanford. I think Todd Lichty

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Speaker 1: passed him and some other sense then, but played the

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Speaker 1: NBA or a b A and the NBA. He was

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Speaker 1: tremendous for me. Uh not just because of his basketball acumen,

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Speaker 1: but he was He was also a tremendous mentor. I

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Speaker 1: used to go up to his office acting like I

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk some ball, and honestly, Doug, I really

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Speaker 1: just wanted to spend time with him, and he was.

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Speaker 1: He's fabulous. What how do you guys play? Uh? Played

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Speaker 1: a little up tempo, a little pro style, and then

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Speaker 1: in terms of he was just a great mentor like

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Speaker 1: what and you want to hang out around him? What

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Speaker 1: sorts of things? Like again, you're a college kid, he's

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Speaker 1: an adult. You know, he's lived a life, so like

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Speaker 1: how would he mentor you? What? What? Because those are

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Speaker 1: the building blocks of who you are as a person,

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Speaker 1: who you are as a coach, like to me, like

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Speaker 1: the we we have people and frankly, it's it's in

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Speaker 1: my profession, not yours, but especially my profession. Who they

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Speaker 1: minimize the importance of that relationship between college coach and

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Speaker 1: player and how much you know, so many kids now

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Speaker 1: come from split families. Um, some comes from dysfunctional families,

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Speaker 1: but even ones that come from like I had a

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Speaker 1: two parent household, but my college coaches were father type figures.

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Speaker 1: What was What was he like during those times uh

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Speaker 1: spent with you when when you pretended like you wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk fall Yeah, the word that comes to mind

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Speaker 1: is he was transformational? You know, not only did he

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Speaker 1: have these great stories and he would help me visualize

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Speaker 1: the dreams that I had when he when he talked

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Speaker 1: about the work ethic you needed to be a pro

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Speaker 1: or the commitment that you had to have. But what

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Speaker 1: was most important or most valuable to me, and uh

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Speaker 1: do he really he loved me unconditionally, you know, with

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Speaker 1: with all of my junk or all of the the

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Speaker 1: voids or holes wounds that I had in my life.

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Speaker 1: I just felt like he was there, and he was.

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Speaker 1: He was the first man that I had ever met

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Speaker 1: who actually read the Bible that he had on his

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Speaker 1: desk and just just tremendously uh considerate of who I

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Speaker 1: was as a person, and it made me feel valuable

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Speaker 1: um and had these words of life that he would

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Speaker 1: relate the scripture that I just thought was instrumental to

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Speaker 1: my development. And I didn't know it then, but I

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Speaker 1: found out later what he was doing is he was

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Speaker 1: just preparing me for what was going to be a

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Speaker 1: career choice that I was gonna make. And how the

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Speaker 1: importance of um of a person's play or the results

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Speaker 1: of their statistics that wasn't as important as a person's

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Speaker 1: heart and a person's uh well being. And I just

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Speaker 1: think from some of those fundamentally the positive principles, it

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Speaker 1: helped shape me. And and I haven't many years, thirty

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Speaker 1: years ago and who I am today. So you get

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Speaker 1: down playing how good was your king? We're decent, We

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Speaker 1: Uh didn't make it to the n c A Tournament,

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Speaker 1: but we were decent. So you get down playing and

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Speaker 1: then what was the decision? I like to go play overseas.

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Speaker 1: I was first working, I was from Seattle, or lived

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Speaker 1: in Seattle. I was working for basketball travelers Nels, Hawkinson

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Speaker 1: and UH. And I finally got the call to go

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Speaker 1: play in New Zealand. And so I did that. I

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Speaker 1: had a friend of mine, UH, who I worked with

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Speaker 1: as a graduate assistant at University of Washington the first

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Speaker 1: time I was there. He got me in touch with

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Speaker 1: the guy named Dale Lair. In between seasons in New Zealand,

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Speaker 1: I went to go be a Division two assistant at

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Speaker 1: Queen's College. Never again, never really thought coaching was gonna

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Speaker 1: be my deal. I wanted to hoop. I don't wanted

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Speaker 1: to play as long as I could, so but one

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Speaker 1: thing I do, Yeah, go ahead? So wait, wait, So

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Speaker 1: Queen's College. Who was the head coach Dale Lair? Okay,

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Speaker 1: and that's that's in Queens, New York. It's in Charlotte,

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Speaker 1: North Carolina. It was Okay, Queen the Queen City, Okay,

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Speaker 1: got it. It was an all girls school and they

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Speaker 1: hired coach Lair. To bring back basketball, to bring basketball

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Speaker 1: to the campus. So the first thirteen men on campus

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Speaker 1: for basketball basketball players actually kind of a I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know it's a religious school, but it's kind of

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Speaker 1: a kind of an easy sale. They're like, hey, man,

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Speaker 1: you want to come and play basketball at an all

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Speaker 1: girls school? Like you're literally the only guy. Yeah, the ratio,

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Speaker 1: the female to male ratio is like nine to one.

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Speaker 1: I mean, dudes, if you can't get a date there,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's you're gonna have a rough go of it.

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Speaker 1: It's a it's a youth problem, right, you can't get

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Speaker 1: a date at Queens College when when when there's there's

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Speaker 1: thirteen dudes on campus. What was what was Dale like

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Speaker 1: as a coach and what was your what was your

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Speaker 1: job during your time you were there? Yeah, you you know,

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Speaker 1: at the Division two ranks, you do a little bit

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Speaker 1: of everything. Coach Lair was phenomenal. He had a he

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Speaker 1: had a balance that was really healthy between family life

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Speaker 1: and how much time he spent with this career with

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Speaker 1: our players. And I lived across the street from the

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Speaker 1: gym so and and was single at the time, so

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Speaker 1: I had a ton of access to the freedom. Another

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Speaker 1: one that the guy sent my way to model for

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Speaker 1: me what a coach should look like. And I know

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Speaker 1: you know this. You your your dad was a coach,

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Speaker 1: and you know as a as a son who has

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Speaker 1: a coach in his home, how much time he really

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Speaker 1: invest in other kids lives? You know? I just felt like, uh,

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Speaker 1: coach Lair was he he was committed in developing and transforming,

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Speaker 1: but he was also really good in his own home.

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Speaker 1: And again another foundational piece for me, uh that that

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Speaker 1: would set the table for how I tried to pursue,

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Speaker 1: uh my career. When when I was a parent, were

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Speaker 1: you I know, religion is so important in your life,

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Speaker 1: and obviously you know you're a place like Liberty, but

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Speaker 1: were you raised in a in a very religious home

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Speaker 1: or is this something that that took place during your

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Speaker 1: kind of formative college years where you where your views

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Speaker 1: became uh much more Christian base. My Uh my mom

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Speaker 1: and dad were divorced, So I grew up in a

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Speaker 1: home that had a they had a faith and we

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Speaker 1: went to church. My brother, my older brother, really had

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Speaker 1: a strong faith that kind of inspired me. And then

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Speaker 1: when I was nineteen, I was I was just finishing

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Speaker 1: up high school or eighteen, and I went to Junior

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Speaker 1: College my freshman year. That's when I invited the Jesus

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Speaker 1: into my life. And I have been a Christian every since,

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Speaker 1: So I think, you know, for me, Doug, I described

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Speaker 1: it as you know, I just that that night I

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Speaker 1: made that decision. It was like opening the door to

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Speaker 1: a mansion, and uh, so many rooms stick for so

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Speaker 1: many experience that experiences to to have in this in

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Speaker 1: this great, big old house. And I'm still in the mansion,

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Speaker 1: still experiencing him. But he gave me a sense of

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Speaker 1: peace and purpose that I had never had before. So, Okay,

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Speaker 1: Queen's College, you're playing professionally. Uh, what made you come

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Speaker 1: back Stateside to coach again? Yeah? I Uh, I came

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Speaker 1: back and I got a job at Seattle Pacific. I

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Speaker 1: married uh Julie, who has been my wife for thirty

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Speaker 1: years going on thirty one in August, and uh came

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Speaker 1: back to my alma minor, and shortly after that I

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Speaker 1: got a chance to go to Bradley University with Jim

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Speaker 1: Mullinery and then back to the Northwest when I started recruiting.

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Speaker 1: You wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on, You're you're

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Speaker 1: you're like skipping all around here. So coach mo people

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Speaker 1: who know him in the Midwest, right now, did you

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Speaker 1: know my dad signed him in college? No? Did he really? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah it was then he's Jim Mullinery. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: he had a game. Yeah, I know he was a

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Speaker 1: hell of a player. And I think he transferred to

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Speaker 1: Western Illinois, right that was where he I think you're right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so he went to Creighton, and I mean it was

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Speaker 1: never forget it. Like I did a Bradley game one time,

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Speaker 1: and I think my dad had mentioned it. I don't

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Speaker 1: really remember how I came up. And then you know,

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Speaker 1: like he's he's there's a little bit of Forrest Gump

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Speaker 1: for Where's Waldo where all of a sudden, like I've

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Speaker 1: been like I was at Minnesota and there's my coach,

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Speaker 1: Coach mo On on the staff and then as Neraska

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Speaker 1: and there's coach mo On on the staff with Tim

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Speaker 1: Miles and and you know all those He's got all

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Speaker 1: these stories about my dad. So yeah, yeah, coach was man.

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Speaker 1: Was he he was so intense the hiring process alone.

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Speaker 1: You know, he took me, I was I had never

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Speaker 1: been Division one and he took me, and uh, he

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Speaker 1: really grew me. He made me value. Uh how how

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Speaker 1: hard it was at that level and uh he was

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Speaker 1: relentless in his work ethic, but man, he he was

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Speaker 1: a really really good coach. In another one, you get

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Speaker 1: another one of the people that was valuable in my

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Speaker 1: life and building some foundation. But I was only young

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Speaker 1: two years so so your wife really enjoyed the areas

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Speaker 1: that's you're telling me? If Georia, Well, Bob Bender in Seattle,

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Speaker 1: which is an incredible city, right, and like, I know

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Speaker 1: how important basketball is the Peoria. I have a played

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Speaker 1: in Feoria, right, the old old baub Bill And but

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Speaker 1: it's really hard to go from Seattle to Peoria. Let's

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Speaker 1: just let's just call it like it is, no doubt,

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Speaker 1: no doubt life theory, don't get me wrong. But um, okay,

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Speaker 1: so and so then you then you got a job

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Speaker 1: at Yeah. So so Bob Bender left Illinois State. Do

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Speaker 1: you go to University Washington? Obviously, the red Birds and

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Speaker 1: the Braves are uh big rivals, and uh, Bender, I

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Speaker 1: think had a little bit of level of respect for

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Speaker 1: the job that we were doing at at Bradley, and

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Speaker 1: I got to know Ray jack Letty and that recruiting

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Speaker 1: process we'd be recruiting against each other, and uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then so Billy King was his initial hire, and

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Speaker 1: Billy went to go to the NBA, and Coach Bender

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Speaker 1: called me in the summer and asked if I wanted

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Speaker 1: to come back to Seattle, And a day later I

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Speaker 1: was on the plane and uh and started the the

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Speaker 1: the rebuilding. You go back, you go all so so

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Speaker 1: so right. That speaks with the respect you hire a

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Speaker 1: guy who you competed against in the league. And then

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Speaker 1: of course location wise, it totally made sense. I love

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Speaker 1: that you were the second choice. That's that's amazing. Yeah

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Speaker 1: that that that's that's happened a lot of too. I

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Speaker 1: just and then it just works out. Okay, so you

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Speaker 1: get to you dubbed it's nineteen three, I believe. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: heck Heads a cool place. But I don't remember you

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Speaker 1: dubbed being any good at that point in time. Who

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Speaker 1: who who perceived was Mark Harshman wasn't the coach? Who

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Speaker 1: was the coach before coach before Cash after us? It

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Speaker 1: was Lynn Nance, It was a coach before I can't

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Speaker 1: even remember. It was was it Less Stevens? Lynn Stevens? Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: use it. Let's just let's just go yes, So okay,

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Speaker 1: so you're there, So now it's Sutton, Okay, you have

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Speaker 1: to go from the valley, Okay, which was really remember

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Speaker 1: that mid nineties at the time, like Tulsa is rolling,

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Speaker 1: absolutely rolling. Um, you know, I mean the whole league

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Speaker 1: is is kind of ridiculous at that point that people

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Speaker 1: forget how good the valley was going going back then, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: had the Bears rolling it. That then was Southwest Missouri.

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Speaker 1: They that was such good basketball and incredibly difficult home

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Speaker 1: court venues to go in and try and get it

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Speaker 1: dub The valley was Legit was totally legit. Fox Sports

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Speaker 1: Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.

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Speaker 1: Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot

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Speaker 1: com and within the I Heart Radio app. Search f

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Speaker 1: s R to listen live. Okay, so what was what

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Speaker 1: was Bob Bender's plan for Was it just we gotta

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Speaker 1: we gotta recruit all these local kids are what? What?

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Speaker 1: What did you guys said? How do you how did

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Speaker 1: you decide to rebuild that program? You know, I think

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Speaker 1: part of it was trying to keep guys in the

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Speaker 1: in the Seattle area or Northwest area close to home.

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Speaker 1: You know, at the time, Oregon wasn't Oregon like it

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Speaker 1: is now, and O s you would struggle a little

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Speaker 1: bit and and Watchington State. Now, Kelvin was there and

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Speaker 1: he he kind of had it rolling. So we uh,

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Speaker 1: we felt like we had to at least try and

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Speaker 1: be able to win our state and uh and he

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Speaker 1: wanted to do it with West Coast kids. But coach Bender,

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Speaker 1: you know, it was a former duke assistant, so I

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Speaker 1: kind of had contacts all over. We weren't afraid to

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Speaker 1: go anywhere in the country to try and get someone,

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Speaker 1: but we really knew we had to be good close

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Speaker 1: to home. And uh and again that's that's when I

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Speaker 1: saw this. Uh, this this top hard nosed point guard

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Speaker 1: that and I don't know people give you enough credit,

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Speaker 1: but you were one of the best passers that I'd

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Speaker 1: ever seen in high school basketball. I mean elite, you

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Speaker 1: were elite and uh, you know, but but big time

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Speaker 1: just you know you you went to Notre Dame and

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Speaker 1: I didn't big time you. Well, here's how I remember it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: didn't you have other guards? You had older You had

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Speaker 1: older guards, so I would have had to sit for it.

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Speaker 1: So again, you have to this is where you have

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Speaker 1: to factor in like part of our problem, I thought

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Speaker 1: in recruiting to my dad and as we kind of

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Speaker 1: knew too much, right you start. But but and and

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Speaker 1: also there was a level of of lack of faith

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Speaker 1: because Washington hadn't been good, just hadn't you knows, before

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Speaker 1: Washington took off. It's hard to relate to people now. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think people understood heechad and how great

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Speaker 1: a place that was the plate back then, right, it

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Speaker 1: just all of it hadn't hit yet. Um. But but

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Speaker 1: you did, you were you You signed McCollough, right, Dion

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Speaker 1: Lewton and Donna Watts. And I believe, I believe before

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Speaker 1: you left. You tell me if I'm wrong. You guys

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Speaker 1: actually had a commitment from Jason Terry, Okay, and then

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Speaker 1: and then what happened? So what happened? Tell me the

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Speaker 1: Jayson Terry story, because this is old midnight loot. What

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Speaker 1: really happened? How did Jason Terry go from committed hometown

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Speaker 1: Washington kid turn this thing around to all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden he's playing he's a sea. He went to be

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Speaker 1: a sick man. He started Arizona till a senior year man.

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Speaker 1: It's funny about it. You know. I was only there

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Speaker 1: two years as well, and then I got the job

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Speaker 1: at Portland State as a head coach. But we were

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Speaker 1: we were starting to flip it a little bit. We

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Speaker 1: were becoming more competitive. And when when when Donald Watts committed,

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Speaker 1: we we had he and Jason Terry on for some

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Speaker 1: elite camp or something, and I was close to JT

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Speaker 1: like we we would talk every day. I talked to

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Speaker 1: moms and uh and he committed. So we we thought

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Speaker 1: we legit had one of the best backcourts in the country,

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Speaker 1: certainly in the West, but maybe in the country. And

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Speaker 1: Jason called one night and he said, hey, coach Man, Coach,

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Speaker 1: I didn't get anything to compare to and I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna go to Arizona, but I just got to take

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Speaker 1: another visit. I'm not going there, Coach. I promise you,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going there. I said, you wanta take a visit?

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Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, but I'm not going there. You know,

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Speaker 1: me and my mom, we we just want to see

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Speaker 1: something else. You know, it's Arizona, coach, I said, Jay Man,

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Speaker 1: I just I'm just telling you it's hard to say

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Speaker 1: no to them. Coach Olsen, you know, he's known for

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Speaker 1: for n having a dude at the midnight hour, and

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Speaker 1: he said, he said, coach, coach, you ain't got nothing

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Speaker 1: to worry about. I didn't hear. Damos Lashwood didn't hear

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Speaker 1: from about three days and he called me. He said,

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Speaker 1: coach coach Man, I made the switch. I said, Man,

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Speaker 1: I'm not telling coach Benner. You gotta tell him, and

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, he he broke my heart. But he had

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Speaker 1: a heck of a career there and uh and in

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Speaker 1: the league. But man, that was coach Osa and Matt.

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Speaker 1: I think there was a few of them. Now, Uh, Matt,

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Speaker 1: I think who was didn't he commit to UNLV and

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Speaker 1: coach clipt Yeah, there was. There was a few of them,

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Speaker 1: and and with good reason. Arizona is a great program.

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Speaker 1: But man, man, that was a tough one. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: you get to Portland State at the time, they just

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Speaker 1: go on Division one. Portland State was a restart they

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Speaker 1: had in nineteen seventy nine, No Ninth team. Yeah seventy nine.

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Speaker 1: Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and Freeman Williams were three of

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Speaker 1: the names on the first team All America lists. Well,

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Speaker 1: they banned the program after Freeman Williams left because of

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Speaker 1: n c A improprieties did not have basketball for sixteen

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Speaker 1: years and they decided to restart it. And when they restarted,

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Speaker 1: they were announced we're going to Vision one and we

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Speaker 1: had an eight year probationary period that we couldn't play

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Speaker 1: in the n c A tournament. So I got the job, Doug,

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Speaker 1: because nobody else wanted it. I'm twenty nine. I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: the youngest head coach in the country. Okay, so you're

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Speaker 1: twenty nine. How much are you making? I think the

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Speaker 1: salary was sixty tho at the time. Beautiful area right

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Speaker 1: west guy. Anyway, like an incredible play, incredible place to live.

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Speaker 1: So what's the process like legitimately starting a program? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, it was incredibly healthy for me. The first

386
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Speaker 1: year we were there, we got two scholarships and didn't

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Speaker 1: feel the team, but we took Brian Town who was

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Speaker 1: a walk on at at University of Washington that came

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Speaker 1: with us and UH and I had one assistant, Brad Sucy,

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Speaker 1: who's been with me every day since then. I know

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Speaker 1: he never never leave your side. I got it and

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Speaker 1: we took wait, how do you how do you meet?

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Speaker 1: Where did you come from? Brad was in UH He

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Speaker 1: was a food broker for Damon and associates. I met

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Speaker 1: him through a mutual friend. He was a heck of

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Speaker 1: a player at the time Eastern Michigan. He said an

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Speaker 1: n c a tournament record for most three pointers in

398
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Speaker 1: the game. He made nine of them. They lost a

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Speaker 1: pit when Pitt had Demetrius Gore and Sean Miller. Uh,

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Speaker 1: the Brad scored like twenty seven points in twenty one minutes.

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Speaker 1: And I said, man, twenty seven points in twenty one minutes.

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Speaker 1: White Coach Brown only played you twenty one minutes. You

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Speaker 1: have seven. That's why I transferred that do the math coach.

404
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Speaker 1: So yeahs Susan and I hit it off. You know,

405
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Speaker 1: faith had to share the same faith, the passion for basketball.

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Speaker 1: Loved to work with kids. So the first year we

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Speaker 1: sit out, we played two on two nearly every day.

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Speaker 1: You know. That's Damon Stodemeyer's dad is Willie. Willie played

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Speaker 1: at at Portland State. So Damon would run his summer

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Speaker 1: camps at at our gym, and of course Dame would

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Speaker 1: be there for a day or two, and then we'd

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Speaker 1: have some of the best runs in the city at

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Speaker 1: Portland's Stage gym. That's where I met email Eudoka and

414
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Speaker 1: uh Cabino. All the guys would come to p s

415
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Speaker 1: U and play. So we started, and then we had

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Speaker 1: to transfer Jason Hartman our second year and ended up,

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Speaker 1: yeah we want to Hartman was at you correct, correct,

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Speaker 1: So that first year, you know, when we didn't have practice,

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Speaker 1: I would go I visited Dick Davy at Santa Clara,

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Speaker 1: Dick Bennett who was at was Wisconsin, uh, and and

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Speaker 1: then I just watched practice. I got to learn. I've

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Speaker 1: got to absorb. And then the first year of us

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Speaker 1: actually playing, you know, the internet wasn't what it is

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Speaker 1: now and there's not social media, so I got to

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Speaker 1: make all these mistakes that no one saw. But we uh,

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Speaker 1: we got we had the right kind of kids, so

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Speaker 1: we got fairly competitive in just two short years and

428
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 1: went fifteen and twelve. And but I'm telling you it

429
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: was it was really hard to recruit that, yeah, we

430
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: can't go to the tournament for six more years, but

431
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: it's you know, and so but the guys we had men,

432
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,199
Speaker 1: I loved coaching them, and they were they were the

433
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 1: guys that no one else wanted and had something to prove.

434
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 1: So it ended up helping us be really competitive in

435
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: a very early stage of our program. How did your

436
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: Mexico come to be? So after after Portland State, I

437
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: took the job at Colorado State and uh was was

438
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: there for two years. Okay, so I have to go.

439
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: I've got a lot of dates happen. Uh again, we

440
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: that second year, you know, we took a restar program

441
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: and uh, the a D at the time, Tim Wiser

442
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: uh called and said he had an interest. And I

443
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: can't remember who the other candidate was. Oh yeah, it's

444
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: it's the late Neil Doherty who was at Kansas, And

445
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: it was he and I and I end up getting

446
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: a job, and we inherited a program from stumorl who

447
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: was a heck of a coach. You remember Coach Moore,

448
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 1: right of course he went to then he went from there,

449
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: he went to Uh, that tremendous coach, and we inherited

450
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,479
Speaker 1: that program and coach you know, Coach More would call

451
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: play every time down. They used the card system, and

452
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: we had a little different philosophy. But so I think

453
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,680
Speaker 1: the kids kind of so good about you know, maybe

454
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: being able to play a little bit more freely offensively.

455
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: But he had such a good culture. I think we

456
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 1: won nineteen the first year I went to the elite

457
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: eight of the n I T and then eighteen the

458
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: next year. And uh and man, it was that's that's when,

459
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 1: that's when my my career. I was there for two years,

460
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: so two years at Portland's State, two years at Colorado State,

461
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 1: and then I took the Oregon State job and uh,

462
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: Mitch Barnhardt was the athletic director and uh and and

463
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: I took it because number one, my dad was diagnosed

464
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 1: with cancer and uh and it was a chance to

465
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,360
Speaker 1: recruit l A. B and l A ton go back

466
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: and forth, bigger budget, the pack ten at the time,

467
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: it was, you know, is what I had always aspired for,

468
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,919
Speaker 1: um in terms of level. And yeah, it was a

469
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: tough job. And I didn't do a good job there, Doug.

470
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 1: I wasn't. Well, your brother coach there. You you know,

471
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: it's and Wayne Tinkle has done a fabulous job. But

472
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: it's it's a little it's a little it's a it's

473
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 1: a little different now. But I mean, like, look, they

474
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: had young college team is ancients. They've read one a

475
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 1: bunch of it now and they built a practice facility now, right,

476
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: But it's you know, I mean, it's nothing short of

477
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 1: a miracle with Ralph Buller did forever and what and

478
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: what they're doing, what they're doing now, Like people don't

479
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: under you know there in wat zoom is it? Those

480
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: are hard, especially with all the money organ spending and

481
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: and and the location of of you doub okay, So

482
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: if you could go back and think, okay, should you

483
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: have not taken the organ State job? Was it the

484
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: what was there something you did that you would fix?

485
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 1: Like why why don't you think you did a good

486
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: enough job at organ State? I bring at Winston Law. Yeah,

487
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: we I should have stayed longer at organ State. But

488
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: again you gotta understand when So you remember the PAC

489
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 1: ten at the time was ridiculous, ridiculous. It was so

490
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: good that every team in that league was an INTIA

491
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 1: tournament team except for US and UH and watch in State.

492
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: So so well, look like let me let me, let

493
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: me say what you can't say, okay, calls cheating. At

494
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: the time, they had a man it cat Cotchet. So

495
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: it's not like oh, gott Leave's breaking news, Like, no,

496
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: they were buying dudes and they had dudes, right jolligans.

497
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 1: Dalton didn't have to buy dudes football Tremaine folks, Gilani

498
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 1: Gardener like they had dudes, dude, Sharif dudes, dudes, dude, Okay,

499
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 1: Stanford had Mike Montgomery, who's unbelievable, right, and they had

500
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: they had pros everywhere, uh Adam Keith Colin, twins lick

501
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: dy like you kind of go through it, Audi Lee

502
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 1: like they had rebbing Knights. Dude, you Jabba just now

503
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: got it finally got it going. Um. Oregon started to

504
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: get it going with Jerry Green. You got like seven

505
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: or eight pros on their roster. Us USC, I mean,

506
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: Arizona Is wins the National Championship during during this period

507
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: of time, they have all NBA players, right, like just dudes.

508
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: And then you're like Oregan Oregon State, you know, and

509
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: you get the you know, so if you signed Corey

510
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: Benjamin Was that was that your biggest finny that in

511
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: sign Corey? He was? He was after me. I was

512
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: only there two years again, and I would have stayed

513
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: at Oregon State. I think I think we would have

514
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: done better. I'm not the same coach now. I was

515
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: then had a lot to learn, but you know, my

516
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: dad passed away. When when I was there, passed away

517
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: in two thousand and the New Mexico job opens in

518
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: my second year there. When my dad played at New Mexico,

519
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: it was always my dream job, just like signed. It

520
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: was just like signed, signed, signed, plenty there, right, Dad, Dad,

521
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: Dad dies, It's New Mexico. All the timing, every thing

522
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: of line. It's like the Good Lord giving you a sign.

523
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: This is where you're supposed to be. And literally I

524
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: thought when I took the job, I thought, well, that

525
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: would be my last job. I'm I'm at the place

526
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: where I've always aspired to be, dream job. All of that,

527
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: and you know, in our first Frank Priscilla was a

528
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: coach that I proceeded. That that I proceeded, and uh,

529
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: our first three years were uh, we're the first two

530
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: years were a little tough, and then we you know,

531
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: Danny Granger was there my second year. In our third year,

532
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: I mean, he he was outstanding, like he was sixteen

533
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: pick in the draft. Well, we made it to the

534
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: tournament in three years, lost to Bill Nova in the

535
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: first round. But I really felt like and I got

536
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: a contract extension. I really felt like, men, I'm never

537
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: gonna leave this place. It's ali querque the fan support

538
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: was great all that, and uh, and then Rudy Dabolos

539
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: my a D he retired, and uh, he said, you know,

540
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure you will be long for this

541
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: job when I leave. And I, why did you say that, Rudy?

542
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: And he said, I just anyway, we got a new

543
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: a D. And uh and and I could tell that

544
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: I wasn't his guy. We we weren't winning, so so

545
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: why what what? Why? What? What? What? What was it

546
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: about you that that all of a sudden, you know,

547
00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: he comes in, Hey, you know good? He said, I

548
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: don't know what. Well, you know how volatile the fan

549
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: base can be there, and we had lost something that

550
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: is the only thing in the state that matters. You

551
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: actually go back, no doubt. We we had lost a

552
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: few in a row on the road. Like my fourth

553
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: year we were seventeen and thirteen, and then my fifth

554
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: and last year, I think we started out like eight

555
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: and two. We had beaten the eighth ranked Wichita team, UH,

556
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: and then lost to Bobby Huggins Kansas State team in

557
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: the final A tournament in Vegas. And then we went

558
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: on the road and lost the Bobby Knight for his

559
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 1: whatever record breaking win and uh, and then lost our

560
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: season opener to TCU. And I got back and we

561
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: were like, I want to say, one and one in

562
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: neutral games and oh and four on the road and

563
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 1: and uh, Paul Crabs are at a d just we

564
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: had a meeting. He said, I'm really concerned about the

565
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: road losses. I got jammed up. I gotta I gotta offended.

566
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: I thought, man, I'm doing a great job, or we're

567
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: doing a great job, and we should you give it

568
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: kind of us a little slack. We you know, we're

569
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: still in the building mode. And I coached honestly, I

570
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,479
Speaker 1: coached out of fear the latter part of the season.

571
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: And about a month later, Uh, he decided to to

572
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: let go, let me go and let me finish the season.

573
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna do that, but I called Dick Bennett,

574
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: who's a mentor, and he said, don't quit on those kids.

575
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 1: Make sure they know you're with them. And we lost

576
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: like our last five and it just it just ended poorly.

577
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: The fan base there was when you said you coached

578
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: out of fear, and I understand what you're saying, like

579
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: that's it's one of the things that that you know,

580
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: Like I think kind of the full school coaches don't

581
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: know that, they don't mean to do it to every kid,

582
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: but there's occasionally kids to react away Like I feel

583
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: like that was my biggest issue in playing for Coach Sutton.

584
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: We all kind of feared him, but I would play

585
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: in an effort to try and please him, right, So

586
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: I wouldn't shoot because if I shooting it, he'd get mad.

587
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: And and it was just I was scared of him

588
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: taking me out of the game. Where the guys and

589
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: my team were like, yeah, we can't we without you.

590
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: Just do what you do and and let him figure

591
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: it out. Well, that sounds right, but when you're a

592
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: pleaser as a kid, and your coach's son, who's who

593
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: has been you know all the time, and again like

594
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: you do what your coach says. Yeah, you gotta play

595
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: your game within reasons. But as a coach, I never

596
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: had a coach that you coach out of beer? How

597
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: did it? How did it affect you to coach out

598
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: of beer? Yeah? It just again, Now, this is my

599
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: dream job, this is where my dad played. Uh my,

600
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: my whole desire, one of my greatest desires was to

601
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 1: you know, to make the McKay name, make people proud of,

602
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: make my dad proud, and make people proud of of

603
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: our our time and as Lobos and the opinion, the

604
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: opinion of others was way too important to me, and

605
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: I feared letting them down. And I think when we

606
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: as men live in that driving that lane, we're very

607
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: susceptible to you know too, to ruin. So it uh

608
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: it just yeah, it's and again it wasn't. It wasn't

609
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: a time in my life that I felt, uh really

610
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: healthy emotionally or spiritually. And uh, and don't get me wrong,

611
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: guy was faithfully he knew I needed to go through that.

612
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: Part of that process was, you know, coming to the

613
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: end of myself and relying more on my faith. And

614
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 1: I did just on me. So yeah it and and

615
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: that was it. That was the year five. I was

616
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 1: done and uh, I was without work for about three weeks,

617
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: thought about going into being a color analyst for TV

618
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: and interviewed at the Mountain Network, uh the now defunct

619
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: Mountain Network and and then Liberty Call. And I went

620
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: out to the East Coast for the first time and

621
00:34:55,880 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: came the head coach at Liberty. Okay, but you left

622
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 1: in the middle right to work for Tony Bennett. So

623
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: I'm at Liberty Years. We have Seth Curry, Steph's brother. Uh.

624
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: He was a nation eating score. We had beaten Virginia

625
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: that my second year, and then I was enjoying it.

626
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: I really loved being there. The school was great, people

627
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: were great. But Tony called and said, you know, I

628
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: want you to come and be my associate hed coach.

629
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 1: He offered me a ridiculous contract and I first said no, Uh,

630
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 1: I felt good about being a head coach, kind of

631
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,959
Speaker 1: like it and uh. And then you know, my wife

632
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 1: and I we prayed about it, and uh, he asked again,

633
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: and man, I just felt like it was I felt

634
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: like I needed to go and and serve instead of

635
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: be served and being an assistant. I hadn't been assistant

636
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: for thirteen years at the time, but I thought it

637
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: would be healthy for me just to you know Dick

638
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,240
Speaker 1: Bennett again, my mentor. Tony and I were good friends.

639
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 1: I felt like I old Coach Bennett. Something took Coach

640
00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: Dick Bennett because of how good he had been to me,

641
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 1: and and I decided to go. Then I didn't know

642
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: what I was signing up for. Doug. You know, when

643
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: you go from making all those decisions when you practice,

644
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: who you recruit, whether or not you can go see

645
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: your kids play, and you're an assistant. You're now supporting

646
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: a vision, not casting it. It was it was different,

647
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 1: But man, was it really good for me. Not only

648
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 1: not only did I get some mind space back not

649
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: being indicted by the loss. Uh, you know coaching and

650
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 1: freedom really invested in relationships and being that same transformational

651
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: type coach that I alluded to that I had. It

652
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 1: helped me recalibrate and recenter what what my purpose was

653
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 1: in coaching. And then I learned. I learned from the

654
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: best a defensive system that you know we've we've implemented

655
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 1: here that's proven to be pretty efficient. Um, how did

656
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: how does Tony do it? How do you in this

657
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: in this climate? And if you have to run, you

658
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 1: just tell me now you're good? Um, in this climate

659
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: where basketball is just not taught the the most a

660
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: you kids, high level kids, the way it's played at Virginia. Right,

661
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: And I remember when Tony got the job and you

662
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: we could go back and you know, because it was

663
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 1: a search firm higher and tied to the area, it

664
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: will never work. Right. You gotta recruit the d m B.

665
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 1: You gotta get local kids. You can't play slow. How

666
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 1: did he do it? So? I think Tone wanted the

667
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 1: job because he thought it could be like a Stanford

668
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: on the East coast. And he had admired the fit

669
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: that you know, Stanford kids had, because they had a

670
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: conscientiousness in the classroom and that sometimes translates on the

671
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: court as well. And our first recruiting class, not I'm

672
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: not talking about when we first got there in April,

673
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: but the class after that, man, they were called the

674
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 1: six Shooters. It was it was six games, it was

675
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 1: ranked fifth in the country or something, and it was

676
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 1: six players, of which only two of them stayed. And

677
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 1: so our first two years were fifteen and sixteen and

678
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: then sixteen and fifteen. So we're thirty one and thirty

679
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 1: one after two and men. The three things that I

680
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: think would answer your question. Number one, he's amazingly consistent.

681
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: He's got an unwavering belief in the way you played defensively,

682
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: in the commitment that you have to have to it.

683
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: Number two, he recruits the right kind of guys like

684
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 1: he he was uninterested in what the ranking was. He

685
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: like you, I know you were a highly rated recruit,

686
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 1: but you had to have a sense of selflessness and

687
00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: a really competitive uh, and passed that disposition for the

688
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: game in order to be successful for him. And then

689
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, like Joe Harris and London Perantas and

690
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 1: Anthony gil and like, we just took to kill Mitchell.

691
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: We took guys. We are beaten. We are beating mid

692
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:21,800
Speaker 1: majors on guys and uh. And I think then thirdly,

693
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 1: what's not talked about, you know, because not many people

694
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 1: he's such a humble, humble individual. He's really one of

695
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 1: the best coaches I've been around, but one of one

696
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: of the best people. He's got this. But how is

697
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 1: that that's real? Okay? I mean? Is that is that

698
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: I never forget when they when Virginia lost the UNBC

699
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: and when the year before and had the thing once

700
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 1: going to the final four, right and they grabbed Johnnie

701
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: after the game. And I mean, I have no ties

702
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: to the program, zero other than I've known Tony most

703
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 1: of my life and I respect environment and he's been

704
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: incredible to me as his dad. But this this calm

705
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: kind of brace compassion, is that's that's a real thing.

706
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: That's not just the TV thing. Oh, no doubt, no doubt,

707
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: he's he's Uh. You know, his dad would tell you

708
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: how temperamental he was, and that's why he retired like

709
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: he he just it just the little things bothered his dad.

710
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: And tone has this ability. His faith is he's deeply rooted,

711
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: but he's he's got this ability that I'm just telling

712
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 1: you that third quality. He's insatiable about getting better. So

713
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: but he's got this ability to to process the negative

714
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: in such a way that it motivates him or inspires

715
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: him to turn it to the good, to turn it

716
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 1: to improvement, to use it as a lesson and not

717
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 1: a loss. He's it's uncanny, It's like and not not

718
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: many people have the depth that he has, uh, in

719
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: his not only his faith, but in his person. And

720
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: I think because of that man, you know, he probably

721
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: doesn't have an enemy in the in the world, but

722
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 1: I think he has success because he's relentless in pursuing

723
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 1: desired outcome and unwavered by adversity. Um, what was your

724
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: decision like to leave? Uh? It wasn't hard because it

725
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 1: was back to liberty, a place that I really had

726
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:43,800
Speaker 1: an affinity for. Yet I knew I was gonna miss

727
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: the significance of the game, you know when you're like

728
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: when I left, we were number two in the country

729
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 1: for I don't know ten weeks of the year, and

730
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 1: every game was a big game, and it was sold

731
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 1: out every venue we played in and just being able

732
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: to compete for it all was I really really liked it.

733
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a head coach again. And uh,

734
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,320
Speaker 1: and I couldn't imagine a better place to get a

735
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: chance to do it at the time. And Liberty, so

736
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 1: that was that didn't make it hard, but and and

737
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 1: it was an hour from Tone and and Laurel, so

738
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 1: you know we're close for friends. Uh, it felt right,

739
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: But I do miss the you know, the significance of

740
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:29,399
Speaker 1: the game on occasions. Yet you know, they've reached such

741
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 1: a high level now whenever they lose, it's the sky

742
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 1: is falling. He's created an expectation there that's, uh, that's

743
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: hard to keep up with. What is it? What does

744
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: it mean to you? What is it signified? The people

745
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: have been around that program and Tony and how you

746
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 1: guys built in him win the whole thing. It was

747
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 1: its phenomenal, you know, especially given what you alluded to earlier.

748
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: When when he was interviewed outside of locker room after

749
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 1: the first one seed that ever lost to a six team,

750
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 1: and he did the interview number one. Most people wouldn't

751
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 1: have done it, but the words that he said, I

752
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,839
Speaker 1: just thought it was it was special. I thought that

753
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 1: meant more to most coaches and into a lot of

754
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: people than you winning a national championship and staying whatever

755
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 1: you said after that game. So I think it was

756
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 1: it was man. It was guy's way of saying, ay,

757
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 1: here's a gift to you for being obedient to what

758
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 1: you were called to. And I was couldn't have been happier,

759
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 1: couldn't have thought of someone that deserved it more. But

760
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: who have left and watched them win? Its tough. Yeah,

761
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 1: you know, I still don't have a national championship ring,

762
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 1: but now I was happy for those guys. Man, They

763
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: labored hard in order to do something like that, and

764
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 1: I had been gone a few years, so, uh, Jack

765
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: saw Tay, Jerome, Kyle guys, and those guys were still

766
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: guys that I recruited or helped a troupe. But uh,

767
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: it's hard to watch someone else win a national championship.

768
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 1: But you know, I felt like I was a little

769
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 1: little part of it. And uh, and in it it

770
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 1: gave me a dream that one day we were going

771
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: to cut the nets ourselves. Okay, so you get back

772
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 1: to Liberty. Now you've done a little bit of everything right.

773
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: You've been a head coach, starting a program. You've been

774
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: a head coach and a lot of states. You've been

775
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 1: back to organ state that didn't work out well. In

776
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: New Mexico. It's your dream job. You lose that job,

777
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: you go to Liberty, you go back to being an assistant.

778
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:48,320
Speaker 1: Now you're back at Liberty. How are you now different

779
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 1: than you ever used to be? Uh, very intentional about

780
00:44:54,400 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 1: the whole person and making sure that um um faithful

781
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 1: to the privilege of being a the privilege of shepherd

782
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: NG or steward NG someone else. Like I've heard it said,

783
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 1: we you know your parents, your parents. We don't own

784
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,760
Speaker 1: our kids. Uh, we're just supposed to be great stewards

785
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: of them. And and man, I just think that's my

786
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: daily pursuit to make sure that our guys and their

787
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: experience is something that they will remember uh and be

788
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: able to recall in the in in a life shaping way.

789
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 1: That that is lasting, and that is significant. So I

790
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: think when you have that approach, you're not as indicted

791
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 1: about the outcome. You can really invest in the process

792
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: and you don't get so hung up with with a

793
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: result and whether it's win or lose. So I think

794
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,839
Speaker 1: that's how I'm different, Just in that place of emotionally,

795
00:45:56,000 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: uh and spiritually healthy that I in referenced earlier. I

796
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 1: think I'm in a way better place. Obviously twenty years

797
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:09,359
Speaker 1: later you are. You know, um, you've already had your

798
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: dream job, right, but now you got Mr Folwell, and

799
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: that's cool. I'm giving you too opportunities. What is it

800
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:19,720
Speaker 1: like now to be kind of back in the German

801
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 1: you know, a guy who now has kind of re

802
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 1: established their value in terms of you know, could you

803
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: get a different job understanding that liberty place giving you opportunity? Like?

804
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: What's that balance? Plain? Uh? You know, I don't. I

805
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: don't think about it much, Doug, just because I've I've

806
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: moved so much. Now we're empty nesters and m you know,

807
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 1: I think it's different now. But man, I love where

808
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,720
Speaker 1: I am and I think we've got a really healthy

809
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: culture and we've you know, we've we've gotten to a

810
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 1: place now where We've beaten some high majors, were kind

811
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: of on the mid major map. And you know how

812
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: hard it is a schedule when you when you arrive

813
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,439
Speaker 1: at that place. So uh, you know, I just think,

814
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: I think for me, Uh, this is I heard this

815
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:07,839
Speaker 1: in a book. Read this in a book by Mark

816
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: Patterson called Win the Day. He said, we have to

817
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: have this ability to bury bu r y dead yesterday's

818
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 1: and not worry about unborn tomorrows. And I think when

819
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,439
Speaker 1: we do that, we can we can make the most

820
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 1: of our twenty four and uh. And that's that's what

821
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 1: I'm trying to do. And be present not only in

822
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 1: their lives but where I am and in my own uh,

823
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 1: in my own old age and uh, and enjoy this process, man,

824
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: because it's it's fun. What would it mean to be

825
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 1: Toplooma State? You know, you know, Mike should a great dude.

826
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: He's done an amazing job there. They probably have the

827
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: number one draft pick in the upcoming draft. What would

828
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 1: that mean for you personally for your program with the university? Uh? Well,

829
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 1: we beat Mississippi State a couple of years ago and

830
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 1: it was the first tournament win in our school's history.

831
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 1: That was great. We then lost the next Sunday to

832
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 1: Buzz Williams Virginia Tech team. So and then last year

833
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: we qualified but didn't have the tournament. So I don't

834
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 1: think our guys will be overwhelmed by the moment. I

835
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: know you'll be rooting hard for your Cowboys. I appreciate that.

836
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 1: And I really really like Mike. He's tremendous dude. Um

837
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 1: and and um. I'm waiting for you to ask the

838
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: questions about the game plan so you can text it

839
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 1: to him. But obviously, when you have a player like

840
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: cutting him like that, dude, is he special? Well, if

841
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 1: he's not one, he'll be two and he'll play for

842
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 1: fifteen years if if, if he stays healthy. But they

843
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 1: also have some other really good players, and they're the

844
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: eleventh ranked team in the country. They shouldn't have been

845
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: a four seed. Uh, it would mean a lot. Yet,

846
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 1: you know, I do think our guys, having won a

847
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 1: few high major games over the years, like I don't,

848
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 1: I don't think they'll be afraid of the moment, But

849
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 1: we'll have to do a great job in order to

850
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: in order just to compete with them. They're really good,

851
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 1: which I'm so happy you found peace happiness and success,

852
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: right and those things. Uh. Success doesn't always mean winning games,

853
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:11,399
Speaker 1: but it doesn't hurt when you do win games and

854
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 1: I can't. I'm just fortuned it, you know. Yeah, and

855
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: appreciative up your time. I wish you the bestive mine

856
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 1: against my own. Yeah, thank you, man, I'd feel the

857
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 1: same about you. You've you've got a great platform and

858
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 1: you use it wisely. Man. Thanks for all you do

859
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 1: to better people's lives. And if we do or if

860
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,280
Speaker 1: we're fortunate enough to upset the cowboys. Man, I'm gonna

861
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: send you some some liberty gears so you can if

862
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,280
Speaker 1: you can fly the colors, hey, I'll take some liberty gear. Anyway,

863
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 1: I got a little dude, I got a living or

864
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:46,320
Speaker 1: all lefty. You may not be high major maybe maybe

865
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,839
Speaker 1: telling you about recruiting down the road. All right, I'm

866
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 1: taking all the lefties. Man. They can shoot that thing.

867
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: You can shoot that thing. I'll talk to you and thanks, Ritchie.

868
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed that. It was good. It's interesting.

869
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 1: He's a very nice man and very interesting perspective and

870
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 1: some really thoughtful commentary on how he's grown as a

871
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: person and how he helps young men mature as as people.

872
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: And then the consistency of Tony Bennett. That one really

873
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:14,879
Speaker 1: jumped out of me. Right, He's just consistent, everyday guy.

874
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:17,399
Speaker 1: You can listen to The Doug gotlib Show daily three

875
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 1: six Eastern, twelve three Pacific. There's consistency for you on

876
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: Fox Sports Trader, the I Heart Radio app. We got

877
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 1: more pods coming. You go back and you listen to

878
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:27,320
Speaker 1: some of the old ones. Justin Bean at Utah State,

879
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 1: Ryan Odum of course, UNBC we have tons of him.

880
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: You go back. Steve prom join me. I know he

881
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: just lost his job. There's some really really good ones. Anyway,

882
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 1: I'm Doug Gottlieb. Thanks so much for listening. This is

883
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 1: all ball