WEBVTT - Managing it all, with Kathryn Sollmann

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning.

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<v Speaker 1>This is Laura, Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's

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<v Speaker 1>episode is going to be a longer one part of

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<v Speaker 1>the series where I interview fascinating people about how they

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<v Speaker 1>take their days from great to awesome and the advice

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<v Speaker 1>they have for the rest of us. Today, I am

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<v Speaker 1>delighted to welcome Catherine Soulman to the program. Katherine is

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<v Speaker 1>a career coach. She works primarily with ambitious women, helping

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<v Speaker 1>people figure out their own definitions of success. Her most

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<v Speaker 1>recent book is called The Four Jobs Club. She's going

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<v Speaker 1>to explain to us what that means, and it contains

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<v Speaker 1>advice from various C suite women about how they are

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<v Speaker 1>managing all aspects of their lives. So Catherine, welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>the show.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh happy to be here, Laura.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much for coming on. Why don't you introduce

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<v Speaker 1>yourself a little bit more to our listeners. Tell them

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<v Speaker 1>about your career and your life.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I have worked in every way that you can

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<v Speaker 2>think of. Started out in the corporate world and then

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<v Speaker 2>went off and did a couple of entrepreneurial ventures. I've

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<v Speaker 2>worked part time, I've worked freelance, I've worked consulting as

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<v Speaker 2>a marketing and communications person. I've always considered myself a writer,

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<v Speaker 2>but my mission since twenty twelve is to help women

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<v Speaker 2>stay in the workforce, and doing so in one of

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<v Speaker 2>the ways that I've done it because I really believe

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<v Speaker 2>that today there's so many ways that you can work

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<v Speaker 2>and still have your family and have your four jobs.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and you have raised a family along the way

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<v Speaker 1>as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Correct, Yes, I have two adult daughters, both living in

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<v Speaker 2>New York City and working there, and they seem to

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<v Speaker 2>still love me.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, that's good. So you figured out a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>tips along the way from your own life as well.

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<v Speaker 1>So maybe you can tell us what are these four

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<v Speaker 1>jobs of which you speak. What are the four jobs

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<v Speaker 1>that people are juggling.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's the paid job, whatever that may be. And

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<v Speaker 2>then there is the job of raising children, the job

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<v Speaker 2>eventually of caring for aging parents, which can sometimes start

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<v Speaker 2>earlier than you think, and then the job of taking

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<v Speaker 2>care of your household.

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<v Speaker 1>And so for this recent book, The Four Jobs Club,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe you can talk a little bit about the process

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<v Speaker 1>of that. You interviewed a lot of incredibly successful women

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<v Speaker 1>about their lives.

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<v Speaker 2>Correct, I did, and what I wanted to do. I

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<v Speaker 2>around the time of the pandemic, I did a big

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<v Speaker 2>national survey and one of the big things that I

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<v Speaker 2>found out is that women at the mid level and

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<v Speaker 2>rising up from there really don't feel that they are

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<v Speaker 2>getting enough guidance from women in the C suite about

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<v Speaker 2>how they managed to stay in and how did they

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<v Speaker 2>do the four jobs. And you know, a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>the corporations talk about leadership and you know, how can

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<v Speaker 2>we get you to the top, and how can you

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<v Speaker 2>be a better negotiator, and how can you expand your

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<v Speaker 2>expertise and all of that. But the fact of the

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<v Speaker 2>matter is that if you don't have the four jobs

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<v Speaker 2>figured out, a lot of times women just don't feel

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<v Speaker 2>that they have the bandwidth for those four or the

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<v Speaker 2>next big promotion. So basically, I decided that I wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to ask those C suite women how they did it.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's not a profile of each of the fifty women.

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<v Speaker 2>It's really a compilation of more than two hundred tips,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, easy and easy out of you know, different

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<v Speaker 2>ways that you can approach all of those four jobs.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. No, when I was reading through the book, I

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<v Speaker 1>noted that that there were a lot of it's very digestible,

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<v Speaker 1>So it's not that you're going to have to hear

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<v Speaker 1>all about you know, some some successful woman's life start

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<v Speaker 1>to finish here, but that you know, you might cover

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<v Speaker 1>the topic of say childcare, and then you know, have

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<v Speaker 1>ten tips from different people about what was most important

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<v Speaker 1>as they were figuring out relationships with their caregivers. Something

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<v Speaker 1>like that. Absolutely, Well, why don't we go through a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of those categories that you talked about in the

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<v Speaker 1>book and maybe you can share some of the practical

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<v Speaker 1>strategies that people shared with you, as you know, that

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<v Speaker 1>would be helpful for our listeners. So one that I

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<v Speaker 1>found interesting toward the end of the book, you said

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<v Speaker 1>volunteer with passion and precision. So what does it mean

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<v Speaker 1>to volunteer with passion and precision and what would that

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<v Speaker 1>look like as I'm deciding what to take on.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, one of the things about volunteering is that your

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<v Speaker 2>kids love to see you at school, for example, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, so there are certain things that maybe you

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<v Speaker 2>want to do a little bit of you know, where

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<v Speaker 2>you can get into the classroom, but you also can

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<v Speaker 2>be more precise about what you're volunteering for, and it

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<v Speaker 2>can be more on your time because it's hard for

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of women to get to school during the day.

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<v Speaker 2>So it can be things that are done at night

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<v Speaker 2>or on the weekends. And it also can be things

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<v Speaker 2>where you are using your business skills. And a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of the women in the book talked about how they

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<v Speaker 2>really brought their business skills to the schools or the

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<v Speaker 2>community organizations and really found that it was more efficient

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<v Speaker 2>for them and it was more efficient for their committees.

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<v Speaker 2>And then you know, obviously having a passion about you

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<v Speaker 2>know what it is that you're giving your time to.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, because if you're not enjoying it, then

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<v Speaker 1>there's not a whole lot of time point of using

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<v Speaker 1>your time for it, Which is the same thing for work.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>You found that a lot of the women talked about

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<v Speaker 1>make sure you really like your work.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, make sure you like your work, and also

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<v Speaker 2>make sure that your work is really fitting your life,

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<v Speaker 2>because I think that satisfaction or joy that you get

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<v Speaker 2>from work is really masked by a bad structure, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>where you really don't have any breathing room.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so try to figure out how to get more

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<v Speaker 1>breathing room in your life is good. RS all right, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to take a quick ad break and then

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<v Speaker 1>we'll be back with more from Catherine Sulman. Well, I

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<v Speaker 1>am back interviewing Catherine Sulman, who is the author of

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<v Speaker 1>the book The Four Jobs Club. She's a career coach

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<v Speaker 1>who's worked with many ambitious and successful women over the years,

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<v Speaker 1>so she's sharing some of the tips from the book.

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<v Speaker 1>Another one you had is about expanding your definition of

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<v Speaker 1>family time. Now, what does it mean to expand your

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<v Speaker 1>definition of family time?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think when you're a working woman and you're

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<v Speaker 2>maybe you don't do a lot of fun activities during

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<v Speaker 2>the week and everyone's just running through their work and

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<v Speaker 2>school routines, that can be another source of feeling guilty.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, Oh my god, you know, I've got to

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<v Speaker 2>plan something amazing for the weekend. So you know, my

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<v Speaker 2>kids feel like we're you know, we're really fun. And

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<v Speaker 2>what I really found from so many of the women

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<v Speaker 2>is that they made important family time out of things

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<v Speaker 2>that you know, we're pretty ordinary, you know, just you know,

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<v Speaker 2>cooking together or doing you know, the family traditions around Christmas,

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<v Speaker 2>Sorhnica or wherever. It didn't have to be a big

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<v Speaker 2>planned event and that was another way to let yourself

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<v Speaker 2>off the hook and not get caught up in that

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<v Speaker 2>perfection cycle, so.

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<v Speaker 1>That, for instance, a weekend doesn't have to have a

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<v Speaker 1>ton of different events to still be enjoyable and yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Well not only enjoyable, but just meaningful time spent with

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<v Speaker 2>your children. You know, it doesn't have to be a big,

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<v Speaker 2>huge event.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, I think awareness is a big chunk of

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<v Speaker 1>all of this, right that you know, you can recognize

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<v Speaker 1>that you're all there together and sort of linger in

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<v Speaker 1>that time and make the most of it, rather than

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<v Speaker 1>feeling that there must be some amazing other thing that

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<v Speaker 1>you should be planning into the time.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So what does it mean to be I want

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<v Speaker 1>to go back a little bit to that passion for

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<v Speaker 1>the work to be true to your professional DNA, because

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<v Speaker 1>that was another tip in your book. What does that mean?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think that women have been hearing a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of messaging from the what I call the power sisterhood,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Ryl Sandberg saying, you know, we all need

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<v Speaker 2>to lean in, and you know, there's that feeling that

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<v Speaker 2>we've got to get more women to the top. And

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<v Speaker 2>you know, certainly I believe that more women should be

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<v Speaker 2>in the c suite. But the operative word there is

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<v Speaker 2>not should be, it's if they want to be. And

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<v Speaker 2>you really have to think about what your definition of

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<v Speaker 2>ambition and successes. They're an awful lot of successful women

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<v Speaker 2>who make great contributions to various organizations without being in

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<v Speaker 2>the C suite. And sometimes you just don't have the

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<v Speaker 2>bandwidth to be in the C suite now or forever,

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<v Speaker 2>and so I always say it's okay to lean in between,

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<v Speaker 2>and often through lateral moves, you can still be expanding

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<v Speaker 2>your portfolio of skills and expertise.

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<v Speaker 1>But you really encourage women to stay in in some capacity.

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<v Speaker 1>That's my takeaway from a lot of your writing is

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<v Speaker 1>that even if you are dealing with intense stuff in

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<v Speaker 1>your personal life, you know, between your kids or your

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<v Speaker 1>parents or anything along those lines, that trying to figure

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<v Speaker 1>out a way to at least keep a hand in

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<v Speaker 1>is important. Maybe you could explain why that has been

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<v Speaker 1>your philosophy.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and that is my philosophy. I really do put

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<v Speaker 2>my stake in the ground. So I'm not one of

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<v Speaker 2>the people saying, well, you can have it all, but

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<v Speaker 2>not at the same time, you know, not that I

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<v Speaker 2>believe that women should always work in some way from

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<v Speaker 2>college to retirement. But that doesn't mean that you have

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<v Speaker 2>to work eighty hours a week and never see your

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<v Speaker 2>kids and travel and commute long distances and all of that.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, today you can basically work ten hours a

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<v Speaker 2>week and keep your hand in. And a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>what I believe derives from my career coaching work, where

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<v Speaker 2>I really feel that I'm often asked to be a

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<v Speaker 2>psychiatrist as much of a as a career coach, and

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<v Speaker 2>I am not trained as a psychiatrist, but I do

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<v Speaker 2>get a lot of women who are coming to me

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<v Speaker 2>with pretty sad stories about you know, husbands lost big

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<v Speaker 2>deal jobs, got divorced, first husband, got sick and can't

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<v Speaker 2>work anymore. You know, a lot of a lot of stories,

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<v Speaker 2>and I call them life. You never knows, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>life happens to all of us. And so I just

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<v Speaker 2>believe that if we're going to ensure our houses and

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to ensure our cars, we need to ensure

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<v Speaker 2>our financial security as well. And one of the ways

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<v Speaker 2>that women can do that is to really keep your

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<v Speaker 2>hand in all the time.

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<v Speaker 1>Because it adds up over time, and then you know,

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<v Speaker 1>if you are working ten hours a week, presumably you

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<v Speaker 1>have some possibility of scaling up if you needed to,

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<v Speaker 1>whereas if you were working none, it might be harder

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<v Speaker 1>to get your foot in the door. Is that what

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<v Speaker 1>you're saying?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes? Absolutely, And when women come to me, they often say,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I don't know if I can do this anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>There's this going on and that going on, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I need to take a couple of years off and

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<v Speaker 2>get things in order. But the fact is that those

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<v Speaker 2>couple of years that they have in their minds, that

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<v Speaker 2>turns into an average of twelve because life happens and

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<v Speaker 2>happens and happens, and there's always a reason not to

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<v Speaker 2>go back, and there are you know, huge amounts of

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<v Speaker 2>money and career progression, and you know just that you're

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<v Speaker 2>giving up every year that you're.

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<v Speaker 1>Out well, and also just a mindset too of like

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<v Speaker 1>what is possible when you haven't been combining the two.

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<v Speaker 1>I believe, Catherine, if I can remember correctly, it was

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<v Speaker 1>at a conference that you were running where somebody raised

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<v Speaker 1>her hand and said she was nervous about getting back

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<v Speaker 1>in the workforce because when we're the bathrooms going to

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<v Speaker 1>get cleaned. I think that was literally what she said.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, of course that strikes me as odd

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<v Speaker 1>because you know, many millions of families have two working

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<v Speaker 1>parents or at least a female part in the workforce,

0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:04.439
<v Speaker 1>and the bathrooms either get cleaned or at least aren't

0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:10.520
<v Speaker 1>hurting anyone. But you can truly believe that there's no

0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:12.800
<v Speaker 1>space for things if you don't have the practice of

0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:13.760
<v Speaker 1>combining these things.

0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:17.719
<v Speaker 2>Well, yes, and I think the other issue that you're

0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:22.680
<v Speaker 2>alluding to, or that woman was saying pretty strongly, is

0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:26.600
<v Speaker 2>that she felt it was her responsibility to clean the bathroom.

0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:32.280
<v Speaker 2>And really, in twenty twenty four, it's it's it's astonishing

0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:37.000
<v Speaker 2>that women still feel that those four jobs are solely

0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:41.320
<v Speaker 2>on their shoulders, and it's it's really about figuring out

0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:45.600
<v Speaker 2>how to divide and conquer in the household and with

0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:50.800
<v Speaker 2>the family responsibilities, so that you know that the bathroom's

0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:52.400
<v Speaker 2>going to be cleaned and everything else is going to

0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:57.880
<v Speaker 2>get done within reason. And I always quote you my favorite,

0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:00.280
<v Speaker 2>one of my favorite quotes of all times is done

0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:04.680
<v Speaker 2>is better than perfect. And you know, so there's a

0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:10.320
<v Speaker 2>certain amount of reality that has to be injected into

0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:10.880
<v Speaker 2>your life.

0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:14.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and real quick mentioned you know, you do talk

0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:19.840
<v Speaker 1>about negotiation with other adults in a household, about sharing

0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:22.600
<v Speaker 1>the load. I wonder if there's any sort of practical

0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:25.280
<v Speaker 1>suggestions from the women you interviewed about that.

0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:33.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was really very interesting. There's a obviously a

0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:38.600
<v Speaker 2>misconception that women in the C suite have running hot

0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:42.160
<v Speaker 2>and cold, running help and oh, well, of course they

0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:44.360
<v Speaker 2>can do the four jobs because they have these big

0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.280
<v Speaker 2>jobs and they have you know, big salaries, and they

0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.440
<v Speaker 2>can outsource everything. But what I found out is that

0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.520
<v Speaker 2>just virtually all of them, they led pretty regular lives,

0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:58.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, going to the grocery store and cooking dinner

0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:01.960
<v Speaker 2>and getting home for dinner and all of that. But

0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:07.280
<v Speaker 2>what they really did is they didn't throw money at

0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:11.560
<v Speaker 2>the four jobs. They threw organization at the four jobs.

0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:14.960
<v Speaker 2>So they brought their business skills home and they really

0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:21.400
<v Speaker 2>created systems and processes and agreements with their spouse, their partner,

0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:25.680
<v Speaker 2>and their kids about how all of this was going

0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:30.280
<v Speaker 2>to get done. And really one of the biggest issues

0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:37.360
<v Speaker 2>is not saying you know that the husband or partner

0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:41.280
<v Speaker 2>doesn't say, oh, well, how can I help you? Because

0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:45.240
<v Speaker 2>you know it's your kids too, it's your household too,

0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:48.400
<v Speaker 2>and so instead of how can I help you? It's

0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:53.400
<v Speaker 2>what can I own? And once once there, you know,

0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:57.520
<v Speaker 2>you get several of those things off your plate, then

0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:02.680
<v Speaker 2>the mental load of the four jobs really gets much lighter,

0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:05.920
<v Speaker 2>and you start to think I can stay in the workforce,

0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:06.960
<v Speaker 2>I can keep doing this.

0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:10.000
<v Speaker 1>Excellent. Well, We're going to take one more quick ad

0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:19.840
<v Speaker 1>break and then I'll be back with more from Catherine Sulman. Well,

0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.400
<v Speaker 1>I am back. This is before breakfast. I am interviewing

0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:25.639
<v Speaker 1>Catherine Sulman, who is the author of The Four Jobs Club.

0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.159
<v Speaker 1>She's a career coach. She's worked with many successful and

0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:32.600
<v Speaker 1>ambitious women over the years. So Catherine, let's talk about

0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:35.520
<v Speaker 1>one last tip from your book, which was to put

0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:37.920
<v Speaker 1>self care on the top of your to do list.

0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:40.200
<v Speaker 1>And I gotta say, every time I hear the self

0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:42.200
<v Speaker 1>care and I'm picturing the bubble baths, I'm getting a

0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:44.040
<v Speaker 1>little like, man, I don't know if the bubble bath's

0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:46.720
<v Speaker 1>really gonna help. So maybe you could describe a little

0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.399
<v Speaker 1>bit more about what it actually means to put self

0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:50.840
<v Speaker 1>care on the top of your to do list.

0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:56.680
<v Speaker 2>What I've found with these women, just taking exercise as

0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:02.240
<v Speaker 2>an example, they scheduled ex size the way they scheduled

0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.920
<v Speaker 2>business meetings, and so again this is you know, the

0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.920
<v Speaker 2>business structure that they brought to their lives as well.

0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:14.000
<v Speaker 2>So they would say, you know, they a lot of

0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:16.920
<v Speaker 2>them got up at crazy early hours, but which I

0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:21.840
<v Speaker 2>couldn't do. But still, you know, it was every day

0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.159
<v Speaker 2>at five o'clock they were going to do this, or

0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.760
<v Speaker 2>every day at seven o'clock they met friends for a

0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:31.240
<v Speaker 2>walk or whatever. But it was it was routine and

0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:36.320
<v Speaker 2>it was non negotiable. And so that was one one thing.

0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:39.199
<v Speaker 2>But the other thing I found with these women is

0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:45.040
<v Speaker 2>that they they really identified things that gave them peace

0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:48.480
<v Speaker 2>and relaxation. Like one woman said that she would go

0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:51.879
<v Speaker 2>in her bedroom and shut her door for an hour

0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:58.080
<v Speaker 2>after dinner and she would read about art and it

0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.320
<v Speaker 2>just you know, would calm her, clear her mind, you

0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.960
<v Speaker 2>know whatever. And her family knew that that was her time.

0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:10.160
<v Speaker 2>So it's they were really intentional about self care.

0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:15.040
<v Speaker 1>Excellent. Well, and let's talk a little bit about you now,

0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:19.639
<v Speaker 1>because obviously you're running busy career coaching practice doing various

0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:22.520
<v Speaker 1>things where you have the connections to get, you know,

0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.200
<v Speaker 1>all these C suite women to talk with you. Maybe

0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:27.880
<v Speaker 1>you could talk a little bit about your own routines.

0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:29.600
<v Speaker 1>Do you have any sort of daily routines? He said,

0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:31.840
<v Speaker 1>you don't wake up at the crack of dawn to exercise,

0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.000
<v Speaker 1>but is there something else that is a regular part

0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:36.679
<v Speaker 1>of your life.

0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:43.840
<v Speaker 2>Well, I love to cook, so I I really think about,

0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:47.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, what's a great dinner for tonight most of

0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:51.439
<v Speaker 2>the time, and that really relaxes me. And you know,

0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:56.239
<v Speaker 2>just knowing that I have that ahead of me is

0:19:56.359 --> 0:20:01.560
<v Speaker 2>something that I look forward to. And I'm also a

0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:07.040
<v Speaker 2>religious news watcher at night. I love that relaxing.

0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:08.840
<v Speaker 1>It seems like it wouldn't be relaxing at all.

0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:12.520
<v Speaker 2>I know, I know it's probably not in many ways,

0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:15.280
<v Speaker 2>but I just I just love that connection to the world.

0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:17.399
<v Speaker 1>So you have sort of the evening routine of a

0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:20.760
<v Speaker 1>very nice, well thought through dinner. Now you sit down

0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:23.560
<v Speaker 1>and you watch the evening news. Is that how that works?

0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:24.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:27.439
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, I love it. That's lovely. When do you do

0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:30.280
<v Speaker 1>your planning, like, do you have a daily or weekly

0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:32.080
<v Speaker 1>planning routine that works for you?

0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.480
<v Speaker 2>I pretty much am thinking about what I'm going to

0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.399
<v Speaker 2>do the next day, you know, a big list maker

0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:45.040
<v Speaker 2>at the end of the day, and you know, try

0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:46.879
<v Speaker 2>to get through it. I mean One of the things

0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:50.840
<v Speaker 2>that I have gotten better at is not thinking that

0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:53.359
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to get through fifteen things, and I try

0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:56.879
<v Speaker 2>to segment, you know, what's the most important in all

0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:59.320
<v Speaker 2>of that, so that you know, I really feel accomplished.

0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:03.400
<v Speaker 1>Are big fans around here of limiting the to do list, right.

0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:05.480
<v Speaker 1>There are a lot of people who listen to this

0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:07.359
<v Speaker 1>who do get up at crazy early hours at the

0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:10.280
<v Speaker 1>podcast called Before Breakfast. But whatever time we're getting up,

0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:14.400
<v Speaker 1>limiting the to do list is always smart. So, Catherine,

0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:16.600
<v Speaker 1>we always talk on this show about something you've done

0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:20.120
<v Speaker 1>recently that has taken a day from great to awesome.

0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:22.800
<v Speaker 1>So I'm curious if there's something you've done recently that's

0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:25.440
<v Speaker 1>just made a day extra good for you.

0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:34.800
<v Speaker 2>It's it is going into New York and visiting my girls.

0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:41.080
<v Speaker 2>You know that that family connection, I mean, we all

0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:45.720
<v Speaker 2>have that, but when your kids are not living at

0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:50.840
<v Speaker 2>home anymore, you know, and with texting and everything else

0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:53.760
<v Speaker 2>that we do stay in touch quite a bit, it

0:21:54.320 --> 0:22:00.679
<v Speaker 2>can be you know, the in person connection can be

0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:04.080
<v Speaker 2>lost a little bit. And so you know that we've

0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:07.320
<v Speaker 2>had a lot of birthdays in the fall, and we've

0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:10.600
<v Speaker 2>had some really great times in New York altogether.

0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:12.600
<v Speaker 1>So you go in and like take them out for

0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:13.119
<v Speaker 1>the evening.

0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:18.120
<v Speaker 2>Yes, we do the dinner and you know, all kinds

0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:20.040
<v Speaker 2>of fun things, walk around, go shopping.

0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:25.000
<v Speaker 1>Sounds lovely. I don't know. My kids are most in

0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:27.000
<v Speaker 1>the sort of teen high school age, and I'm sort

0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:29.000
<v Speaker 1>of seeing in a couple of years that, uh, you

0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:31.400
<v Speaker 1>know what it's going to be like visiting them as adults,

0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:33.560
<v Speaker 1>and you know, I think it'll be interesting to see

0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:36.840
<v Speaker 1>how they schedule their lives. Well, what are you looking

0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:39.280
<v Speaker 1>forward to in the upcoming few weeks.

0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:42.520
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm definitely looking forward to the book launching on

0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:48.600
<v Speaker 2>January seventh, and I'm just having like such great conversations

0:22:48.640 --> 0:22:51.160
<v Speaker 2>with people. As a result, I'm talking to a lot

0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:56.439
<v Speaker 2>of corporate employee resource groups, and you know, the things

0:22:56.440 --> 0:23:00.639
<v Speaker 2>that that people talk about in their in their own lives,

0:23:00.680 --> 0:23:05.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, the challenges that are not necessarily dire, but

0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:10.919
<v Speaker 2>they're they still are hard and they've they've got to

0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:14.320
<v Speaker 2>figure it out. And what I love is, you know,

0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:18.080
<v Speaker 2>actually being in the room with people and seeing the

0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:20.920
<v Speaker 2>light bulb go off, you know where they're like, oh,

0:23:21.280 --> 0:23:23.800
<v Speaker 2>maybe I could try that, because really none of this

0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:27.720
<v Speaker 2>is rocket science. It's just a matter of trying this

0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:31.439
<v Speaker 2>and trying that, being a little more organized. It's a good.

0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:34.159
<v Speaker 1>Approach to life in general. Well, Catherine, thank you so

0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:36.600
<v Speaker 1>much for joining us. Where can our listeners find you?

0:23:38.119 --> 0:23:44.760
<v Speaker 2>I am at Katherinsolman dot com and the book will

0:23:44.800 --> 0:23:48.440
<v Speaker 2>be available in bookstores and Amazon and all the regular places.

0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:51.280
<v Speaker 1>Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Thank

0:23:51.320 --> 0:23:54.360
<v Speaker 1>you to everyone for listening. If you have feedback on

0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:56.919
<v Speaker 1>this or any other episode, you can always reach me

0:23:57.320 --> 0:24:00.880
<v Speaker 1>at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. And in the meantime,

0:24:01.119 --> 0:24:04.520
<v Speaker 1>this is Laura. Thanks for listening, and here's to making

0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:14.240
<v Speaker 1>the most of our time. Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast.

0:24:14.800 --> 0:24:18.560
<v Speaker 1>If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback, you can reach

0:24:18.640 --> 0:24:28.280
<v Speaker 1>me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. Before Breakfast

0:24:28.320 --> 0:24:32.600
<v Speaker 1>is a production of iHeartMedia. For more podcasts from iHeartMedia,

0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:36.719
<v Speaker 1>please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:38.000
<v Speaker 1>listen to your favorite shows.