1 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: For eight months now. 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 2: The horror on the ground in Gossam has gripped the 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 2: world's attention. This destruction follows the October seventh attack by 4 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 2: Hamas on Israel, which killed more than eleven hundred people, 5 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 2: with another two hundred and fifty taken hostage and over 6 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 2: one hundred still being held. And that's according to Israeli officials. 7 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 2: Israel's ongoing military assault in response to this attack by 8 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 2: Hamas has killed over thirty six thousand Palestinians, according to 9 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 2: the Gassa Ministry of Health, and it has destroyed entire 10 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 2: neighborhoods across the Gaza Strip, including hospitals and universities. The 11 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 2: level of violence, pain, and grief we're witnessing in the 12 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 2: region is unprecedented. Historians and experts from the United Nations 13 00:00:55,360 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 2: have said the devastation in Gossam amounts to a genocide, 14 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 2: and demands for a permanent ceasefire and the safe return 15 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 2: of the remaining hostages have echoed across the United States 16 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 2: and the world. Since October, over one hundred US cities 17 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 2: have passed resolutions supporting a ceasfire, from Atlanta to Seattle 18 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 2: to Oakland. Communities have successfully pushed their local city councils 19 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 2: to join the ceasefire movement, and in southern California, at 20 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 2: least a dozen cities have passed these resolutions. Many like 21 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 2: La Puente, Bell Gardens and Santa Ana, are majority Latino cities. 22 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 2: In the US colony of Puerto Rico, protesters raised the 23 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 2: Palestinian flag over the capitol building in San Juan and 24 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 2: polling shows that Latinos are the most likely group to 25 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 2: oppose sending more military aid to Israel. In fact, an 26 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 2: Ipsos Axios poll from April found only sixteen percent of 27 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 2: Latinos say the US should continue to support. 28 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: Israel with arms and funds. 29 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 2: It's a sentiment that has gotten some Latinos to protest 30 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 2: in support of Gaza. 31 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 3: At a lot of the protests and marches on behalf 32 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 3: of the rights of immigrants. Interestingly, I have seen the 33 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 3: flag of Palestine. 34 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 2: That's Crystal Silva McCormick. She's a visiting instructor at Austin 35 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 2: Presbyterian Theological Seminary. 36 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 3: People are making the connections to what they are experiencing, 37 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 3: to their concerns, to their safety and to their suffering, 38 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 3: to what is happening in Gaza. And Palestine. 39 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 2: For some these connections go back decades. Sarah Awartani is 40 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 2: a Palestinian Puerto Rican scholar. Her forthcoming book explores the 41 00:02:55,600 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 2: historical ties between the Palestinian liberation movement and taking activism. 42 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 4: There are folks who are identifying with Palestinians because they 43 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 4: are Latino Muslims. There are folks who are thinking about 44 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 4: the US military, the role of bombing in Bichs and 45 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 4: the sending of bombs then to the Middle East. 46 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 2: From Fudromedia and PRX, It's Latino USA. 47 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: I'm Maria no Josa. 48 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 2: Today we continue our special election coverage for twenty twenty four, 49 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 2: the Latino Factor, How we Vote. Today We're going to 50 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 2: hear from three Latino voices around the country on what 51 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 2: informs their solidarity with Palestinians and how their communities are 52 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 2: responding to the War on Gaza and what this all 53 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 2: means for Latino and Latina voters ahead of the presidential elections. 54 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 2: Is no the War on Gasa is happening as voters 55 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 2: in the US look ahead to November's general election. But 56 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 2: some of the groups who came out to secure President 57 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 2: Joe Biden's victory over Donald Trump four years ago may 58 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 2: not show up again. Polling from May showed Biden and 59 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 2: Trump are tied among young voters and among Latinos, who 60 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 2: are the second largest voting group in the United States. 61 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 2: But as we've always said here on Latino USA, LATINX 62 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 2: voters are not a monolith, and while Biden's support has 63 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 2: dropped among certain demographics, for others, Biden was never their choice. Crystal, 64 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 2: who we heard from at the top of our show, 65 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 2: studies Christian Zionism, researching the long standing support for Israel 66 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 2: among Latino evangelicals. It's a group that has historically been 67 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 2: supportive of Trump as well. In response to the Hamas attacks, 68 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 2: over a dozen Latino Christian leaders signed a letter earlier 69 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: this year reaffirming their support for Israel. For other Latinos, 70 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,359 Speaker 2: it's their Jewish faith that moves them to mourn the 71 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 2: attacks of October seventh, but at the same time also 72 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 2: denounced the ongoing genocide. Joshua Martinez is twenty five years 73 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 2: old and he's been organizing pro Palestinian protests in southern California. 74 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 5: This mass murder of men, women and children is done 75 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 5: in my name, in the name of my safety, and 76 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 5: it includes me, and it's my story and my identity, 77 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 5: so I don't hold back at all. 78 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 2: On our program today, Joshua, Crystal and Sada are going 79 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 2: to help us understand how Latinos who support a ceasefire 80 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 2: are mobilizing from a sense of suar solidarity with Palestinians 81 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 2: and what that political activism might mean for the presidential 82 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 2: election in November. Welcome to Latino USA. And before we 83 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 2: get to talking about Latino voters and the relationship between Latinos, Latinas, 84 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 2: latinx Latine and the politics of this moment, I first 85 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 2: wanted to start by kind of asking each of you 86 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 2: to talk a little bit about yourselves. Let's start with you, Joshua, 87 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 2: tell us a little bit about yourself and how it 88 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 2: is that you end up being the organizer that you 89 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 2: now are in Pasadena. 90 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 5: I actually come from a Zionist family. I was raised Zionist. 91 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 5: I was raised believing that my identity was inseparable from 92 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 5: the state of Israel, being. 93 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 6: A Jew, and I feel very differently now. 94 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 5: I was in college in twenty twenty where we were 95 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 5: also exposed to a lot of things, a lot of violence, 96 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 5: a lot of systems of oppression, and then I actually 97 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 5: lived in the Middle East, and I lived in Muslim 98 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 5: and Arab countries, and I realized that a lot of 99 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 5: things that I learned were completely wrong. I was really 100 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 5: not very active at all with Palestine or what's going 101 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 5: on until October seventh. And I don't think that's unique 102 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 5: at all with especially Latino activists, because it really opened 103 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 5: everyone's eyes. A few days later, I heard the Defence 104 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 5: Minister of Israel call an entire population of people human 105 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 5: animals in rashma in Muslim in mind, and that they 106 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 5: should be denied food and water and electricity. And growing 107 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 5: up in Jewish institutions, you know that genocidal rhetoric. We 108 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 5: were ironically trained to understand that that meant disaster and horror. 109 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 5: So fast forward January first, we planned to block the 110 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 5: Rose Parade in Pasadena as an action, a direct action, 111 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 5: and I met the founder of Latino Muslim Unity and 112 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 5: we helped prepare the action and it worked out perfectly, 113 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 5: and I've been working with her ever since doing direct actions, 114 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 5: ceasefire resolutions, community building. As we have strong Latino and 115 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 5: Muslim populations here in southern California. 116 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 2: SATA wondering how you get to where you are in 117 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 2: terms of your work. At this precise moment. 118 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 4: I can start and I think this is a story 119 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 4: I usually start with, is that my mother's Puerto Rican, 120 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 4: my father is Palestinian. I grew up in Gainesville, Florida, 121 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 4: So what is more or less kind of the Deep South, 122 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 4: especially in the kind of post nine to eleven South. 123 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:54,839 Speaker 4: So I grew up really striving towards assimilation, being kind 124 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 4: of tentative and scared to admit to folks that I 125 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 4: was Palestinian, just for the reaction that that would get. 126 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 2: But you were okay with talking about the fact that 127 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 2: you were Puerto Rican. 128 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 4: Absolutely, Yeah, that felt familiar, especially in Florida. So college 129 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 4: was this really big moment of kind of confrontation and 130 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 4: thinking through what identity meant for me and what might 131 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 4: it mean to find other avenues to access history and community. 132 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 4: For me, it was a course on the history of 133 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 4: Cuba and Puerto Rico, and that helps me make sense 134 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 4: of my place, the trajectory that my parents made, the 135 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:33,079 Speaker 4: decisions that they made. And so I was really compelled 136 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 4: by this question of like, when we think about both 137 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 4: Puerto Rico and Palestine, they're somehow exceptional, right, We think 138 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 4: of Puerto Rico and its status question that's somehow unsolvable. 139 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 4: We think of Palestine and the Palestine problem as this 140 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 4: kind of foreign policy conundrum that cannot be solved, right, 141 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 4: And that was kind of what compelled me into this work. 142 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: Crystal. 143 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 2: So how do you come to this work because you 144 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:04,079 Speaker 2: are not Palestinian and you are not Jewish, you are 145 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,559 Speaker 2: actually part of the UCC, the United Church of Christ. 146 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,719 Speaker 2: What's your story and trajectory to getting to where you 147 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 2: are today? 148 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 3: First and foremost, I'd say I'm a child of the border. 149 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 3: I was born in al Paso, te Juas so losos Lados. 150 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 3: My father was born in Indiana, a soldier at Fort 151 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 3: Bliss Military Base. A white man met my mother from Durngo, Mexico, 152 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 3: and they were married. And so I grew up looking 153 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 3: at the border wall, seeing it crossing all the time 154 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 3: to see family in Juades, And because I experienced it 155 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 3: so much, it was ubiquitous. Unfortunately, the questions about why 156 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 3: this border exists and what does it do, the humiliation 157 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 3: it causes, the problems that it causes in creating divisions 158 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 3: in this community and people dying in the desert. And 159 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 3: I have also been always interested in my Christian faith 160 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:08,199 Speaker 3: and how that gets lived out in its commitment to 161 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 3: social justice. And I came across the work of Edward 162 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 3: Said and Orientalism, which applies to how Arabs have been 163 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 3: viewed and are still viewed. And so I came to 164 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 3: Palestine through the reading of Edward Said. And it wasn't 165 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 3: until I went to Palestine and I saw the wall 166 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 3: in Bethlehem that immediately I made the connection with the 167 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,959 Speaker 3: wall that I grew up seeing all the time. And 168 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 3: although the parallels are not exact, there are parallels in 169 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 3: what especially Latina community experiences when they tried to cross 170 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 3: that border with detentions, having to navigate unjust systems ice 171 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 3: the border patrol. And so a lot of those parallels 172 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 3: drove me to my dissertation work, which was trying to 173 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 3: understand the growing trend of a lot of Latinos Latino 174 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:09,199 Speaker 3: Christians specifically in the US, committing to Christian Zionism. 175 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: All right, well, before we go on, can you just 176 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 1: define that for us, Crystal? 177 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 3: Sure? And I want to say that it begins with 178 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 3: Christians who look at the Christian Bible and see the 179 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 3: word Israel and conflate or equate it with the modern 180 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 3: state of Israel, and I will also utilize the work 181 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 3: of Robert Smith, which I would recommend to anyone reading 182 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 3: about Christian Zionism, who defined Christian Zionism as political action 183 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 3: that is informed specifically by Christian commitments to promote or 184 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 3: preserve Jewish control over the geographic area now comprising Israel 185 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:52,199 Speaker 3: and Palestine. 186 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 2: So seta your trajectory is you grow up Puerto Rican 187 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 2: and Palestinian, keeping the Palestinian inside of you a little 188 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 2: bit quiet. October seventh happens, the world changes. What has 189 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 2: happened for you just in these last several months that 190 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 2: has changed you that you're just like, this is really 191 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 2: a moment in my life. 192 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, part of my research thinks about Palestine activism and 193 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 4: Puerto Ricans organizing alongside them. In the university setting. There's 194 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 4: a protest against Israeli Independence Day in nineteen seventy eight 195 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 4: at the University of Illinois at Chicago. At that point 196 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 4: it was known as Chicago's Circle. And essentially what happens 197 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 4: at this protest is that pro Palestinian students are meant 198 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 4: to be banned from attending the protest. They managed to 199 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 4: get into the space and they're chanting Palestine is air Land, 200 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 4: long lived Palestine, things of that sort. This action is 201 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 4: heavily policed by administration, and so that's what's coming to 202 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 4: mind for me. You know, I'm watching students organize on campus, 203 00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 4: and I'm concerned with the surveillance and policing. Feels inevitable 204 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 4: that that's going to happen, and that we have seen 205 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 4: play out on college campuses across the United States, not 206 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 4: only here at the University of Michigan. So I find 207 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 4: myself really taking cover and embracing what it means to 208 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 4: think about Palestine and to teach about Palestine in these 209 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:32,119 Speaker 4: bigger conversations of say Latino social movements. That's where Palestine 210 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 4: shows up for me in my teaching. 211 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: Hmmmm. 212 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 2: So, Joshua, you have been doing this hyper local organizing, 213 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 2: encouraging city governments in California to pass these ceasefire resolutions. 214 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 2: I'm wondering if you can take us onto the ground 215 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 2: and tell us a moment where one of these meetings 216 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 2: really stood out. 217 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 5: I was raised in Pasadena, I still live here. We 218 00:14:55,840 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 5: had a ceasefire on the agenda, and we've build such 219 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 5: a strong ceasefire movement in Pasadena over the past seven 220 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 5: months that they actually had to move the meeting to 221 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 5: a large auditorium and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of 222 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 5: people showed up to speak in front of the city council. 223 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 5: And on the other side of the aisle was my 224 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 5: old Zionus community. My rabbi was there, that Barmitz with me, 225 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 5: My Canter was there, that Barmits would me. They were 226 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 5: all speaking out against the Seasfire resolution. It was just 227 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 5: a very pivotal moment. But they were really outnumbered. I 228 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 5: mean hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people, Jews, Mexicans, 229 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 5: people of all walks of life spoke in support of 230 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 5: the seasfire. You know, the city council at first really 231 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 5: was not interested, really wasn't but we screamed and shouted 232 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 5: and pressured and pressured. It was a lot of pressure 233 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 5: on them, and we just saw them sway and ending 234 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 5: up passing a resolution, a declaration to be exact for Pasadena. 235 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 5: But you really saw the force of the community and 236 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 5: it was really breathtaking. 237 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 2: Coming up on Latino USA, how the war on Gaza 238 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 2: is shaping Latino voter perspectives, and we talk about the 239 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 2: students mobilizing for GASA and the pushback they've received from authorities. 240 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 2: Stay with us, Yes, Hey, we're back. And before the break, 241 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 2: we heard from Joshua Martinez, Crystal Silva McCormick, and Sarah 242 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 2: Awartani about what informs their solidarity with Palestine amid the 243 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 2: ongoing war on Gasa. Now we're going to get into 244 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 2: how different Latino and Latina voters are responding to the 245 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 2: genocide just months ahead of a presidential election. 246 00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: So let's jump back to the conversation. Sah. Let's start 247 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: with you. 248 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 2: You know, I think everybody kind of looked again to 249 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 2: Michigan during the primaries when there was a substantial uncommitted 250 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 2: protest vote. It was specifically regarding people who could have 251 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 2: voted for Biden and saying I'm uncommitted and specifically tied 252 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 2: to the war on Gaza. So what's happening with Latino 253 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 2: voters in the state. Is the war on Gaza factoring 254 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 2: into their views on the Biden administration on how they 255 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 2: viewed Trump the general election. 256 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: What are you hearing? 257 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think folks, not just lat knows, communities of 258 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 4: color across Michigan are really being pressured into maybe the 259 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 4: same discourse we are every year that it's kind of 260 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 4: up to us to show up to the polls and 261 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 4: to vote, to vote to save democracy from somebody like 262 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 4: Donald Trump. But at the same time, I think folks 263 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,719 Speaker 4: are being really honest that if Biden were to lose, 264 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 4: that that loss is not on us, It's not on 265 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 4: our communities, it's on the Biden re election campaign, and 266 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 4: it's quite frankly on the Democratic Party for really kind 267 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 4: of refusing to listen to its constituents. Right we had 268 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,959 Speaker 4: that uncommitted vote. We used voting as our voice, and 269 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 4: it feels as if we are just not being heard. 270 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 4: I think that there's going to be so many other 271 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 4: concerns obviously leaning up to the election, and maybe folks 272 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 4: will turn out to vote. Still, I think that we 273 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 4: have lived through a Trump presidency and we understand how 274 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 4: grave that could be and how much worse it could be. 275 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 4: But I think that there's a real disconnect that's going 276 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 4: to have to be reckoned with even if folks do 277 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 4: turn out to vote. 278 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 2: Crystal, let's talk about your research with Christian Zionism. So 279 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 2: Latino evangelicals pretty pro Israel, also pretty pro Trump. So 280 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 2: what kinds of conversations are you seeing in the churches 281 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 2: around this issue? And has anything shifted since October seventh? 282 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 3: So I think something has shifted. But I would also 283 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:06,360 Speaker 3: say that even within Latina evangelicalism there's a spectrum of beliefs. 284 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 3: There are evangelicals that are Latino that do not agree 285 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 3: with what is happening in Palestine. And I think before 286 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:19,959 Speaker 3: this moment, those Latin evangelicals were not feeling comfortable or 287 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 3: safe to say that out loud publicly. They may have 288 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 3: felt it, but there wasn't the environment where they felt 289 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 3: that they could speak it. That said, those who are 290 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 3: committed because of their Christian faith to supporting the modern 291 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 3: state of Israel, who have that as a central part 292 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 3: of their faith, have I think, become more than ever 293 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 3: committed to those ideas and to those ideological commitments. 294 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 2: Joshua, you are actually on the ground engaging with Latino voters. 295 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 2: It's complicated because you essentially have two candidates, both Trump 296 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 2: and Biden, who are supporters of Israel. So how are 297 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 2: Latino Latina latinx Latine voters in your community, How are 298 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,360 Speaker 2: they perceiving their choices? 299 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: What are you hearing from them on the ground? 300 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 5: Well, the majority of the Latino population in southern California. 301 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 5: They're working class and they want their debts paid, they 302 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 5: want healthcare, they want money for their education, and they're 303 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 5: seeing their tax money being sent for war. So they're 304 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 5: not convinced that either candidate is a real solution for 305 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 5: improving their material conditions. You know, we put so much 306 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 5: effort out we're here in southern California Latino voters into 307 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 5: getting Trump out of office in twenty twenty. That was 308 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 5: a real push. I was part of that. At the 309 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 5: end of the day, it still is a blue state, 310 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,639 Speaker 5: and Biden still has outside of the Latino vote, still 311 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 5: has a lot of support, but as far as the 312 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 5: working community, not convinced at all to you know, campaign 313 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 5: or make phone calls for him, or really go out 314 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 5: of their way to support to his campaign. 315 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 2: So Crystal reminding people that you live in Austin, Texas, 316 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 2: which is a particularly blue part of the state of Texas, 317 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 2: which is very red. Still, Pauline has shown now that 318 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 2: Latino support for Donald Trump has actually grown since the 319 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 2: twenty twenty election, and I'm wondering if that is still 320 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 2: what you're seeing on the ground. 321 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think that when we look at Latina voters, 322 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 3: the first question is often immigration, unless we're looking at, 323 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 3: for lack of a better word, more conservative evangelicals, where abortion, 324 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 3: for example, might be one of the first values on 325 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 3: their priority list. A lot of people who I've met 326 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 3: who are Christian's, Catholic, Protestant of different varieties, who are 327 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 3: on both sides of the border serving immigrants, they have 328 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 3: consistently told me, and this was prior to October seventh, 329 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 3: that it doesn't matter who the US has in the 330 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 3: White House, that immigrants, and especially are particularly Latino and 331 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,199 Speaker 3: imigrants suffer at the hands of US foreign policy and 332 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 3: immigration policy. But I will say that here in Texas 333 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 3: because there has been a lot over some recent bills 334 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 3: that are targeting immigrants at a lot of the protests 335 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 3: and marches on behalf of the rights of immigrants. Interestingly, 336 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 3: I have seen the flag of Palestine, and I say 337 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 3: interesting because people are making the connections to what they 338 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 3: are experiencing, to their concerns, to their safety and to 339 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 3: their suffering, to what is happening in Gaza and Palestine. 340 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 3: But those who are I would say, very committed to 341 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 3: enmeshed within a worldview that what is happening in Israel 342 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 3: and Gaza is when they see it through a biblical lens, 343 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 3: I would say they're interpreting it through their religiosity, through 344 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 3: their Christianity. They remain committed and they will probably eagerly 345 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 3: vote for Trump. And many Christians that I know have 346 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 3: felt that Trump was doing the Christian thing when he 347 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 3: moved the US embassy to Jerusalem. So it's again it's 348 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 3: a diverse group of people and voters, and they have 349 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 3: different commitments. But I would say there is a shift 350 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 3: and that that will probably hurt Biden at the voting booth. 351 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,360 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just fascinating. 352 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 2: We really are living in an extraordinary historical moment in 353 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 2: our country. People think back to nineteen sixty eight and 354 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 2: the protests as a memorable year. We think about twenty twenty, 355 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 2: the protests for Black Lives Matter. People will now know 356 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four April and May as the moments when 357 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 2: students took over multiple college campuses, and I was on 358 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 2: the campus at Columbia University where it all started. I'm 359 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 2: a professor at Barnard, so I was able to actually 360 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 2: have access to the campus and I was on the 361 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 2: encampment for two days. This is before the encampment was 362 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 2: finally taken down and the NYPD called onto campus for 363 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 2: a second time. There have been a lot of acts 364 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 2: of solidarity from Jewish students, Palestinian students, allies. 365 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: Of all sorts. And have you spoken with a lot 366 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:09,639 Speaker 1: of Jewish students, what's. 367 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 7: Your of course, I mean it seems like most of 368 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 7: my friends are Jewish, and all my friends have been 369 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 7: out here supporting, they are showing solidarity. I think it's 370 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 7: a bit of a mischaracterization to say that Jewish students 371 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,160 Speaker 7: feel unsafe when there are so many Jewish students who 372 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 7: in the incamen is the only place they feel safe 373 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 7: for so much NYPD presence. 374 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 2: I'm wondering, Sarah, this must be a particular moment for you. Again, 375 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 2: there were Puerto Ricans who were involved in the nineteen 376 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 2: sixty eight Columbia University protests. 377 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 6: It's been two days. 378 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 8: We've taken fought buildings, Hamilton, low Avery, fair Weather. 379 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 9: Than that. 380 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 7: If you've got the administration figured right, they're up to 381 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 7: call in the cops, and when they do, we want 382 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 7: to be here. 383 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 2: And I'm wondering what kinds of parallels have you been 384 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 2: seen in terms of protest movements from the past and 385 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 2: in present. 386 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 4: I think a lot of folks have already spoken, like 387 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 4: you just did that we can place the student encampments 388 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 4: and what's happening in a longer trajectory, to think about 389 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 4: nineteen sixty eight, to think about anti war, anti Vietnam protests, 390 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 4: to think about struggles against South African apartheid, and I 391 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 4: think the students are doing that really beautifully right. They 392 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 4: have studied histories of social movements in this country and 393 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 4: they're calling on that legacy as they organize. Again. I 394 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 4: think that the history of Puerto Rican solidarities with Palestine 395 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 4: is also really informative. So to bring us back to 396 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 4: this nineteen seventy eight protest at University of Illinois, Chicago, 397 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 4: what was really striking to me as I researched it 398 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 4: is that essentially the students who protest the celebration are 399 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 4: threatened first with arrest. Administration is very intentional that they 400 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 4: are photographing students with the intent to arrest. They say 401 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 4: that before in planning meetings, before the ever happens, and 402 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 4: they say so after to the student newspapers and in 403 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 4: the aftermath. As Puerto Rican students in particular, are helping 404 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 4: to organize and defense of these students. They are consciously 405 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 4: calling on the fact that this is not an isolated 406 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 4: moment of policing, and that's precisely what we see student 407 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 4: activists doing today. They are reminding us that the policing 408 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 4: that we see is not isolated. It's connected to these 409 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 4: larger struggles. 410 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 2: The narrative that I have seen, and certainly we have 411 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 2: a mayor in New York City, Eric Adams, who has 412 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 2: essentially said that there are outside agitators who are saying 413 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 2: things like there's a wave of anti Semitism because of 414 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 2: these encampments and this protest. So, Joshua, this is again 415 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 2: very much your story. You are Latino, you are Jewish, 416 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 2: and you're protesting this genocide. 417 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 1: So how are you kind of dealing with this? 418 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 5: You know, anti Semitism has been a shield to deflect 419 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:06,400 Speaker 5: criticism for Israel for a very very long time, and 420 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 5: they just abuse it and misuse it so much that 421 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 5: I feel like it's no longer effective. You know, you 422 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 5: see these Jewish kids getting interviewed at the encampments. A 423 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 5: lot of the times, they're the ones who start the encampments. 424 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 5: On the other hand, the Zionists that claim that they 425 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 5: feel unsafe, I think we have to make a clear 426 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 5: distinction between feeling uncomfortable and actually really being unsafe. When 427 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 5: your opinion is challenged, that's not a threat to your safety, 428 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 5: that's not a threat to your wellbeing. That's just putting 429 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 5: you in outside your comfort zone, which is completely healthy. 430 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 2: So Crystal, Some university leadership and government officials, even President Biden, 431 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 2: have said that there is an element of anti Semitism 432 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,360 Speaker 2: in the protests on campus and elsewhere in the country. 433 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 2: So are there ways that you find yourself moderating your 434 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:02,479 Speaker 2: speech because of this? 435 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 3: I would say yes and no. Initially, yes, because I 436 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 3: know that there are Jewish friends, Jewish colleagues, Jewish strangers 437 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 3: in my life who, when they hear me advocate for 438 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 3: Gaza or Palestine, whether it be after October seventh or prior, 439 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 3: because they tie their religious worldview commitment to the state 440 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 3: of Israel, they fear that I am saying something anti Semitic. 441 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,160 Speaker 3: I have felt concerned for that, but less unless these 442 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 3: past couple months. I have felt that because I have 443 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 3: been working with so many Jewish friends and colleagues that 444 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 3: I've made over these past six months. I feel less 445 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 3: afraid because I feel concerned for my Jewish colleagues, many 446 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 3: from Jewish Voice for Peace, who like Joshua, have been 447 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 3: putting their bodies, their livelihood on the line to speak 448 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 3: for Palestine in very public ways, and they are both 449 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 3: the recipients of anti sne sematism. People question their Jewishness 450 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 3: and they get a lot of well shame shameful language 451 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 3: and our ostracized from other communities that are their own. 452 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 3: So I feel less inclined to try and censor what 453 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 3: I say because my commitment is to justice and to 454 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 3: truth for all human beings. As a pastor, it is 455 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 3: for all human beings, and I want to encourage Joshua 456 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 3: also that I've been seeing so many Jews here in 457 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 3: Austin and this area speaking so loudly. And we had 458 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 3: a vigil for Gaza in December, and one of the 459 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 3: most moving things that I witnessed was a Jewish friend 460 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 3: seeing the mourners Scottish at a vigil on behalf of 461 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 3: the martyrs and. 462 00:29:44,280 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 9: Gaza name belt the fiaphone of your Matoni by I love. 463 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 3: You, I'm here, and many of us were in tears 464 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 3: because it was so moving that they would sing the 465 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 3: mourner's cottage on behalf of all those in Gaza that 466 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 3: were being killed to make those connections, and for this 467 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 3: person to also be lamenting their religion being used in 468 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 3: ways to further what was happening in Gaza and what 469 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 3: is happening and if we want the cycles of violence 470 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 3: to end for Israeli's four Palestinians, we must speak the 471 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 3: truth about what is happening. So no more censoring. 472 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: So Joshua, can I ask you the same question? 473 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 5: Well, you know, this mass murder of men, women and 474 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 5: children is done in my name, in the name of 475 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 5: my safety, and it includes me, and it's my story 476 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 5: and my identity. 477 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 6: So I don't hold back at all. 478 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 5: I don't play that game where they call me a 479 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 5: self hating Jew or an anti Semitic Jew. I don't 480 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 5: play that game, and I don't take it seriously. 481 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: And how do you bring people in? How do you 482 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: say but join me in this? 483 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 5: I think the important thing to understand is that Zionism 484 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 5: is about fear, it's about weaponizing trauma, it's not about healing. 485 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 5: So I think the best thing to do is exposure. 486 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 5: And how you do exposure is you meet people. And 487 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 5: I've met so many Palestinians and many who have lost 488 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 5: hundreds and hundreds of family members. So what I do 489 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 5: is I get my Zionist community to meet these people 490 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 5: and to understand that this is real, that these are 491 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 5: human beings, and this is not just social media. 492 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 6: This is really happening. 493 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 5: My parents went into an event I was a part 494 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 5: of where a woman named Hedap Tarifi spoke. 495 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 8: I was born in Gaza. I lost about one hundred 496 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 8: and forty members of my family. I heard about forty 497 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 8: two being killed in one bomb, and sadly, I heard 498 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 8: about it on CNN. 499 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 5: So once you bring people down on a human level, 500 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 5: you break them out of their fear and trauma bubble, 501 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 5: that's when you really can bring them in. 502 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 2: Said, I want to bring this again to your work 503 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 2: as a historian. So talk just a little bit more 504 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 2: about the bonds between the Palestinian liberation movement and the 505 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 2: Puerto Rican independence movement and how we can understand the 506 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 2: deep identification that people on the island of Puerto Rico 507 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 2: are having right now with the people in Gaza. 508 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 4: I mean, I think that these identifications can take many forms. 509 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 4: Right there is a large population of Palestinians. In Puerto 510 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 4: Rico itself, there are folks who are identifying with Palestinians 511 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 4: because they are Latino Muslims. There are folks who are 512 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 4: thinking about the US military, the role of bombing in Biechs, 513 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 4: and the sending of bombs then to the Middle East. 514 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 4: And remember that in nineteen fifty two, the United States 515 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 4: establishes the Formal Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, right, the free 516 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 4: Associated State, which allows Puerto Rico to be self governing 517 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 4: to a degree, but which also gives the United States 518 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 4: ultimate authority over the island. And more importantly, that decision 519 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 4: removes Puerto Rico from the UN's list of colonized territories. 520 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 9: Right. 521 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 4: And this is part of a post war effort by 522 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 4: the United States to really establish itself as this leader 523 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 4: of democracy in the world. 524 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 2: There's another thing that is happening right now, which is 525 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 2: a generational divide. According to the Pew Research Center, they 526 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 2: are finding that younger people are sympathizing more with Palestinians 527 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 2: than older Americans. Younger voters are going to be essential, 528 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 2: particularly younger Latino voters. 529 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: So let's start with you, Joshua. 530 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 2: You are a young activist again, you have said that 531 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 2: your parents have kind of supported you in this work. 532 00:33:59,200 --> 00:33:59,959 Speaker 1: What do we know? 533 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 2: So in terms of what younger folks are saying, these 534 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 2: are the older folks. And if you're seeing a generational divide. 535 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 5: I think we all know TikTok and Instagram have changed 536 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 5: the game, and the younger people are more likely to 537 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 5: use those applications. But I would also add that it 538 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 5: was a different conditions in different times that my parents' 539 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 5: generation grew up in. 540 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 6: They grew up during a. 541 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 5: Time of the eighties, American exceptionalism, Reagan years, Clinton years, 542 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 5: you know, the Golden age, if you will, of just 543 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 5: American empire, and my generation grew up with two thousand 544 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 5: and eight recession. We grew up in twenty twenty, where 545 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 5: we see government fail, where we see American unexceptionalism. We 546 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 5: grew up with more distrust in institutions. And I think 547 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 5: that's probably a very big difference generationally. 548 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 3: And when we talk about Christian Zionism in the US, 549 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:03,240 Speaker 3: whether it's a white evangelical, a black evangelical, a Latina evangelical, 550 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,800 Speaker 3: the roots of Christian Zionism in the US are founded 551 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 3: on ideas of US exceptionalism and younger people are not 552 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 3: invested in that anymore because they see the things that 553 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 3: the US has done to cause harm now and in 554 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 3: previous generations around the world. And this is especially true 555 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 3: of countries in Latin America. So I think the younger 556 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,760 Speaker 3: people are seeing it and they are ready to create 557 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 3: and imagine a world where those systems don't continue to 558 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 3: dominate and cause harm and cause people to be displaced, 559 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,719 Speaker 3: to force them to migrate and to live as colonies 560 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 3: like Puerto Rico and Palestine. 561 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,800 Speaker 2: So, Sada, let's take it to Michigan and Latino Latina 562 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 2: voters in your state. Are you seeing a generational divide 563 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 2: on the question of the war on Gaza? 564 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 4: I mean absolutely, for all the reasons that both Crystal 565 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 4: and Joshua have said. And Crystal, I really love that 566 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 4: you use the language of create and imagining a world. 567 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 4: And I think we have to remember that this is 568 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 4: a group of folks. These young kids came of age 569 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:12,719 Speaker 4: politically with the Black Lives Matter movement, with COVID, with 570 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,839 Speaker 4: the Trump presidency, and I say all those things as 571 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 4: indicators of moments where this younger generation was forced with 572 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 4: the opportunity really confronted with how do we relate to 573 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 4: one another, and can we create better worlds that are 574 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 4: rooted in care, that are careful, that are thinking about systems. 575 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 4: That's what these younger generations are engaging with. They are 576 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,879 Speaker 4: very critically thinking about what world they want to live 577 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 4: in and how do they relate to one another in 578 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 4: that world. 579 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 2: We're just going to end with what your message would 580 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 2: be to Latino Latina latinx Latine voters now on this issue, 581 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,399 Speaker 2: And we're going to start with you, Joshua, what would 582 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 2: be your message to voters as they think about November 583 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 2: related to this particular issue. 584 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 5: You know, we've learned that there are stronger ways to 585 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,359 Speaker 5: use your voice than just voting, and I think that's 586 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,719 Speaker 5: the most important thing right now. Electoral politics is just 587 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 5: one tool in the toolbox, and we can't afford to 588 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 5: just put all our eggs in that basket. We must resist, 589 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,880 Speaker 5: we must mobilize. The system is waging war on Muslims 590 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 5: and Arabs, just like they're waging war on our people, 591 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 5: Latino people in this country. Their struggle is our struggle. 592 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:35,839 Speaker 5: We must be in complete solidarity. 593 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 1: And for you, Crystal, what is your message to voters? 594 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 3: I think it's difficult because when we look at the 595 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,280 Speaker 3: Latina community, we see a community that has to survive 596 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 3: so many barriers and navigate so many different things. And that, 597 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 3: of course would apply to other communities who've been minoritized 598 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 3: in this country, and what their relationship then is to 599 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 3: voting is sometimes one of power. So sometimes minoritized persons 600 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,400 Speaker 3: will say voting helps me feel like I have power, 601 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 3: like I have a voice. But I also heard recently 602 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,800 Speaker 3: when I spoke at a church at a teach in, 603 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 3: someone who is in their sixties said, you know, these 604 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,840 Speaker 3: young kids are really not doing the right thing, and 605 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 3: they're not using their power. And I asked if she 606 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 3: would consider that that's precisely what they're doing. They're using 607 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 3: their power by saying vote uncommitted or don't vote. It's 608 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 3: making sure that everybody is free. And in that I 609 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 3: admire the youth for doing that. 610 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,719 Speaker 2: All right, Sata, take us out in the very important 611 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 2: state of Michigan. Your message to Latino Latina latinx Latine voters. 612 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:51,840 Speaker 4: I will end with the words of a Palestinian American 613 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 4: writer and poet, Hala al Yan, And this line just 614 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 4: comes to me often. So she says that quote, we 615 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 4: belong to long, gorgeous lineages of endurance. We are all 616 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 4: here because someone somewhere endured, and I think that I 617 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 4: would want folks to sit with that and think about 618 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,840 Speaker 4: again care and community and what it means to endure 619 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 4: through grave political times as folks are trying their best 620 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 4: to make the best decisions to be participants in democracy, 621 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 4: and how can we carry that work forward beyond just 622 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 4: the election, regardless of how it turns out. 623 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,839 Speaker 2: I really want to thank you, Sadah, Crystal Joshua. Thank 624 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 2: you for being so honest with your thoughts on a 625 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 2: moment in history that we are obliged to cover and 626 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,760 Speaker 2: to discuss. So thank you again so much for joining 627 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 2: us on Latino USA. 628 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:43,720 Speaker 6: My pleasure. 629 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you for having us, and for the 630 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 3: others sharing your work and your wisdom. Thank you. 631 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Nor Saudi and edited by 632 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 2: Alana Casanova Purchase. It was mixed by Stephanie Lebau. The 633 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 2: Latino USA team includes Victoria Strada, Renaldo Lanos Junior, Andrea 634 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 2: Lopez Cruzado, Dolori mar Marquez, Marta Martinez, Mike Sargent, and 635 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 2: Nancy Trujillo. Benilei Ramirez is our co executive producer. Our 636 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 2: senior engineer is Julia Caruso. Our marketing manager is Luis Luna. 637 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 2: Our theme music was composed by Zenia Rubinos. I'm your 638 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 2: host and executive producer Maria no Josa. Join us again 639 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,399 Speaker 2: on our next episode. In the meantime, you can find 640 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 2: us on social media. I'll see you on TikTok, on Instagram, 641 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 2: on ex see you on YouTube and bojola Estellapproxima notteva 642 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 2: yas Cho. 643 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 10: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Ford Foundation, 644 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 10: working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide, 645 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:14,880 Speaker 10: and the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation. Funding 646 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 10: for Latino USA's coverage of a culture of Health is 647 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,680 Speaker 10: made possible in part by a grant from the Robert 648 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:21,960 Speaker 10: Wood Johnson Foundation