WEBVTT - It Will Take Guts and Power | Steve Schmidt and Brian Tyler Cohen 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:14.480 And good afternoon everybody. I'm Steve Schmidt with the Warning 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:17.919 and very pleased this afternoon to be joined by the one, 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:22.599 the only, Brian Tyler Cohen. How are you, Brian. 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:24.520 I'm doing okay. Thanks so much for having me. 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:29.000 You have written a book. It is excellent. I wish 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:31.080 I could tell you that I am done with it. 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:35.240 I am almost done with it the day after How 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:38.800 to Wield Power in a post Trump world. This is 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:43.360 an important book. I think the purpose of books is 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:48.280 to get conversations going, and this is an important one. 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:53.840 The Save America movement, of which I am a part of, 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:58.400 is open and filled with people that represent a broad 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:04.000 spectrum of politics that we rarely talk about. When we 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:10.200 go into a meeting with a Democratic senator or representative 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:14.120 and we have a couple one hundred thousand donors, actually 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:17.800 more than a couple hundred thousand donors, and we'll say, 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:24.080 with humility, speaking for the donors to the organization, that 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:28.600 we have an expectation of you, and our expectation is 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:34.520 not to be for a policy. It is to embrace 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:41.080 the concept that the maximum abuses of the Constitution and 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:48.920 of power demand the full and maximum use of all 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:57.320 available political power everywhere to make it stop. And I 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:02.720 think Democrats have done an awful job at this. And 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:09.480 this is a conversation that will define the next presidential campaign. 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:12.600 So I'm delighted to be able to talk to you 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:15.640 a little bit about it, talk about what made you 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:18.960 write the book and how you conceive of the use 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:22.160 of power for what you call the day after. But 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:26.520 let's be honest, right, it starts at the second power 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:30.480 transfers at noon, and let's for the purposes of our 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:35.520 conversation and envisional world where there is democratic control of 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:40.320 the Senate, the House, and the White House on twenty 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:44.200 January at high noon of twenty twenty nine. 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:48.200 So thanks so much for asking me and for having me. 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:51.480 The reason that I decided to write this was for 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:54.080 the exact reasons that you laid out. It's because Democrats 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:58.040 have been terrible at exercising power. And that would be 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:01.320 bad enough unto itself, but when you contrast the asymmetry 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:04.560 of how the Republicans not only exercise but abuse power, 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:10.320 it becomes abundantly clear that until and unless Democrats learn 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:13.120 how to wield that power effectively, we're going to continue 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:15.200 losing at the hands of a Republican party that will 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:18.640 change the rules of the game at every single turn 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:20.760 to get what they want. I mean, the perfect example 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:22.360 of that. Somebody who's in the news right now is 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:26.760 Mitch McConnell, who, even on his deathbed, is figuring out 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:30.919 ways to undermine the system to extract maximum political advantage 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:33.760 for himself and his party. And so the reason that 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:37.400 I wanted to have this conversation, this broad discourse right 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:43.480 now is because let's entertain the hypothetical that you put forward, 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:46.000 which is that Democrats have the House, the Senate, and 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:50.480 the White House come you know, January twentieth, twenty twenty nine. 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:54.280 I would rather use this time talking about what that 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:57.000 looks like, so that when we actually have the ability 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:00.320 to exercise power, we do it, that we that we 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:03.600 don't spend that precious sliver of time that can go 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:07.560 away like this instead and paneling a commission that we'll 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:12.040 spend twelve to eighteen months discussing what the options are, 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:13.920 and then they come back in and they go over 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:16.279 their findings, and we make a determination about whether we 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:18.680 want to implement those findings, and before you know it, 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:23.000 that precious sliver of time is gone. So I want 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.359 to have this conversation now about what it looks like 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:28.240 when Democrats get into office, get into power, so that 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:30.760 on day one we can determine are we going to 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:34.080 eliminate the filibuster? Is making DC and Puerto Rico a 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:38.200 state a priority of this party. Is expanding the Supreme 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:40.880 Court so that we don't offer up a veto on 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:45.680 any and all progressive or pro democracy legislation. Is that 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:48.360 going to be acceptable for Democrats? Is it good enough 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:50.720 to just get caught trying or do we want to 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:53.880 have meaningful, lasting change? And if it's the latter, then 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:55.520 there are things that we need to do right off 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:57.680 the bats that we can set ourselves up for success 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:01.920 and not just squander that time getting bogged down in process, 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:03.520 like Democrats have a tendency to do. 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:09.520 When you talk about when you talk about the party 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:11.719 and you say, you know, the party has to learn 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:17.719 to do something. This is professional sports in the sense 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:23.919 that both parties are filled with elected federal officers, right 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:27.320 they're all elected to the Congress, to the Senate. What 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:31.360 is it that you think, Why is it that you 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:37.640 think that one group is allergic to the use of 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:40.200 power when they're in the business of power. And I 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:44.200 don't mean to quibble, but I don't think it's a 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:49.680 matter of learning. I think it's a matter of exercising 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:55.560 will with intent. What I think that there's something that 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:59.159 Democrats have to reckon with which is this? I find 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:04.680 this astounding, it's incredible. Actually, after eleven years of this, 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:10.600 the polling is clear the American people look at these 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.160 two parties and they think the Democratic parties the more 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:20.240 extreme to Trodnir. How do you account for that? 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:23.600 So I want to answer the other question that you 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:31.200 asked first, which is which is why do we get 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:35.280 into a position where it becomes unclear why the Democrats 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:40.120 fail to exercise power or refuse to exercise power and 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.040 kind of get caught up defending these institutions. And I 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.880 think the answer to that is that Republicans have been 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:48.640 so quick to tear these institutions down. And so the 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:52.119 knee jerk reaction from the left is, Okay, they're tearing 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:55.360 everything down, and so we have to stand everything up. 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.320 We have to protect these institutions exactly as they are. 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:03.680 We have to to you protect an amber, all of 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:08.080 the traditions and norms and processes of the Federal government. Now, 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:10.960 it was actually a smart play by Republicans to position 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:16.320 themselves as the destroyers of these institutions, because these institutions 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:21.120 are not popular. They're the institutions that have ushered in 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:24.760 an environment, a political environment where forty percent of Americans 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:27.520 can't afford a four hundred dollars emergency. But that's how 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:30.480 politics goes. You have one party that breaks something down 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:34.040 and so de facto, the other party wants to protect 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:39.160 those things. And I think that it was a miscalculation 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:41.360 by the Democrats to think that we're going to be 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:43.440 the party that protects all these institutions that are so 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:48.640 aggressively unpopular that the vast majority of Americans are bucking 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:51.480 against this system or pushing back against the system, are 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:53.840 voting for people who outright say that they want to 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:57.240 destroy this system. So I think that that has to 0:07:57.240 --> 0:07:59.560 be recalibrated, that we can have a democratic party that's 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.320 going to say we're here to protect every single thing 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:05.680 that Republicans are looking to tear down. Now, the Republicans 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:08.760 have shown that these institutions are not sacricanct. The difference 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:10.680 is they're doing it for their own self enrichment. They're 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:13.640 doing it for their own entrenchment of power. My argument, 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:16.640 my contention in this book is that Democrats have to 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:20.240 be willing to tear down these institutions, but to do 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:22.480 it for virtuous reasons. To make sure that we can 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:25.920 do whatever we can to deliver climate change legislation, to 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:29.280 do whatever we can to deliver affordable and accessible health 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:31.080 care to every single person in this country. To do 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:34.280 whatever we can to make sure that voting rights are expanded, 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:36.199 that we have a Freedom to Vote Act and a 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:40.600 Voting Rights Act, so all of these institutions can continue 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:43.160 to be broken down. That's fine, I'm okay with it. 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:49.040 I'm not advocating for blind deference to our traditions and norms, 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:51.040 but you have to be willing to do it for 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:53.760 virtuous reasons, which the Republicans are not. And I think 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.600 the Democrats have to recognize if they want to get 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:59.960 this stuff done, it's either our norms and traditions or 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:01.480 the outcomes, but not both. 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:06.400 I think that Democrats have an enormous blind spot about 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:09.600 something which I'll share in a second. But I think 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:15.320 there are two inherent design flaws around the arguments that 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:21.160 both parties have made at a top level. For a generation, 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:25.880 and going back to the Reagan era in the conservative movement, 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:30.240 the argument was there, and there's truth in this at 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:33.640 a common sense level, which is that it's best to 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:37.920 make decisions closest to where the problem that that decision 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:43.120 is being made around, and that if you can make 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:48.160 it there, that's better. Now, the Republican mythology is that 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:52.160 there's some type of wisdom in the country that is 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:57.240 greater the further you get from Washington, right, and the 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:01.480 lower the ranking the elected by, the more wise it 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:04.480 is because it's closer to the people. And as a 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:08.680 functional matter, I don't think that's true. And I remember 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:12.360 going out and having my first experience at a Republican 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:16.280 meeting when I took over Schwarzenegger's campaign in two thousand 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:19.960 and six from leaving the Bush White House, and my 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:23.760 first thought was, holy shit, right, these people out here 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:27.240 make those people in Washington look like Lincoln's cabinet. And 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:32.480 so that's not true, I think. On the Democratic side, 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:35.400 I think this is deeply true, with probably a few 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:38.920 exceptions in a few places, but it's a general proposition. 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:44.079 I don't think there's anybody who encounters their government at 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:46.680 a local level. I got to go in there for 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:50.960 a zoning issue at a county level, at a state level, 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.400 at a DMV level, who walks out of that experience, 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:57.440 who says, God, that was great and efficient, And I 0:10:57.440 --> 0:10:59.320 think we ought to put those people in charge of 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:04.440 more shit. And so none of the things that work 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:08.680 right or or none of the things that are supposed 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:13.400 to work it appears to many people work. And so 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:17.280 if you're the party of government solutions, you have to 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:21.000 be the party of government accountability in the sense that 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:25.200 we insist for the taxpayer of getting a dollar ten 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:29.280 value for every dollar spent on every program that we 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:32.520 spend it on to make sure that that hungry kid 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:35.320 at the end of the pipeline is getting what they're 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:38.320 supposed to get. Man, Donnie just gave a speech about this, 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:41.200 and honest to God, he's the first progressive in my 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:46.400 lifetime that I've heard linked those two concepts together. And 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:50.000 I think that's an enormous issue for Democrats. 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:54.120 Yeah. Absolutely, I mean, look, starting from the abundance discourse 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:58.760 from Ezra Cline, I think that absolutely both of those 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:00.560 have to be done at the same time. Can't just 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:04.520 advocate for more power to the to the government without 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:08.000 making sure that those the powers that were afforded to 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:10.400 the government actually work. And so I think you have 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:12.800 to do both at the same time. But you know, 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:20.679 to your point, the most popular government programs right now, Medicare, Medicaid, 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:24.959 and even the ACA are all examples of the system 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:28.840 being able to work. And I agree that that you 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:31.960 can't just have blind deference to heaping more power onto 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:35.720 onto the government, especially in areas where it doesn't have 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:37.800 any credibility, And so I think you do have to 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:42.840 do both. But the reality is that right now we 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.400 are seeing the chipping away at the ability of the 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:49.600 government to be able to operate in a lot of 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:54.839 these spaces, whether it's healthcare, whether it's you know, I 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:56.960 take stuff. 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:03.280 Is God all this Donald try t'roum destroy the architecture 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:16.240 of America's strategic military alliances, our healthcare, scientific infrastructure. This 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:22.000 outbreak of the food borne diarrheal diseases all over the 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:25.640 country as a direct link to getting rid of food 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:29.680 safety inspector so all of this stuff is gone. It's 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:33.240 one of the great fantasies of the era is the 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:37.880 notion that there's something there to come back into and fixed. 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:41.080 It's gone we're gonna have millions of people dead all 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:45.560 over the world from the destruction of USAID program. So 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:50.120 all of this gets to be reimagined to suit a crisis. 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:52.439 And one of the things that happened yesterday is probably 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:55.719 the most important news of the year is you had 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:59.479 a Ukrainian strike on an Iranian ship in the Caspian 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:02.600 Sea for the first time, merged to theaters of war, 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:08.640 a very serious time in the history of the world. 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.720 Yeah, and and and the point that I that I 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.440 think is worth making here is like this is we 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.760 are in the midst of unbridled republican republican governance right now, 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.280 where a lot of these systems are being torn down 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:27.680 and the outcomes are objectively worse. Like tearing down all 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:31.960 of and destroying and firing all of the Inspectors General, 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:36.720 for example, which allows a lot of Elon Musk and 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:40.600 and his you know, government business entities to do what 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:44.080 they're doing right now, has created an outcome that is 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:46.880 objectively worse for the vast majority of the country. It 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:51.280 is consolidating power for him and destroying regulations that we 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:54.360 need to rein in certain people from committing these abuses. 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:57.800 And the same thing goes for healthcare, for example, for 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:01.560 cancer research, for example, watching watching Donald Trump right now, 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:08.560 use this Republican ethos or this maga ethos, I should say, 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:13.080 of breaking everything. Is what it looks like when when 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:15.400 you know you have the natural conclusion of this Republican 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:19.080 project to shrink government down so that you can drown 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:21.200 it in a bathtub. I mean, this is what it 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:23.920 looks like. We have worse health outcomes right now, we 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.960 have more consolidation in the business realm right now, worse 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:35.040 pricing strategies for consumers. Right now, our antitrust sector has 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:39.320 been completely gutted. And that's worse for consumers, that's worse 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.880 for capitalism. So I mean we're looking at we're looking 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:47.200 at the natural conclusion the results of these projects in 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:50.160 real time. So I get that. On one hand, you 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:54.040 can say that that the government is not the most 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:57.640 efficient or effective player in this game, and I absolutely 0:15:57.680 --> 0:15:59.160 agree with that, And I think you and I are 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:01.200 both on the same page that if you're gonna be 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:03.200 in this space, you have to make sure that this 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:05.360 stuff is reimagined so that you can actually do it 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:09.440 in an efficient and effective way. But the opposite of that, 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:12.680 where everything is just shrunk down and killed that the 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.440 government had any hand in. We're seeing what it looks 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:17.520 like when the government doesn't play a role in climate 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:20.160 change and the effects of climate change are being exacerbated. 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:24.480 We're seeing what it looks like when in healthcare the 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:27.240 government takes a step back and is no longer a 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:30.480 player in this space, or cuts cancer research funding, for example, 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.720 or starts to push away the most brilliant minds in 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:35.960 the world that we're coming to this country to do 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.920 this work like this, what we're living through right now 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:42.600 is an example in real time of what it looks 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:46.880 like when we relinquish all of this talent and when 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:49.520 we rip down all of the guardrails that we've been 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:53.320 operating under for years and years and years. So again, 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:55.000 I think you have to be able to walk in 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:56.720 chew gum. At the same time, you have to be 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.480 able to reimagine this stuff, because, as you said, it 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:01.920 doesn't exist anymore. A lot of this stuff has been 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:03.600 broken down, and if you're just going to prop it 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:05.960 up in the exact same way that it was five 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:08.679 years ago, you're gonna keep losing. So you have the 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:11.479 ability right now, if you're the Democrats to reimagine this stuff, 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:14.840 but it has to be reimagined in such a way 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:18.360 that it will work. But the notion that the government 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:22.840 can't do anything is so broken and is leading to, 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:27.760 you know, the biggest differential in income inequality that we've 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:33.040 seen in this country's history. That's happening right now as 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:36.879 the results of Republican governance. So I think that you 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:38.440 do have to be able to do both. 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:43.600 Let me let me say to that. I think that 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:45.399 one of the things that I would push back on 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:49.440 a little bit is the notion of big and small 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:55.040 government such as it is has never been bigger. We 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:59.560 have mass federal agents running around the contrary in discriminately 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:05.280 draw weapons two thousand miles from any border, immigration agents. 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:09.880 We got government trying to break in the hospital rooms, 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:15.000 birthing rooms, right the place of the death. There's never 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:18.720 been more money spent on government. It's not that they 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:22.359 looked at something and said we have to restrain spending 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:25.960 or a problem. It's that it's just gone right in 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:31.160 the corruption. And listen, I think in any room I've 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:33.439 been in a lot of I deeply believe this is 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:35.919 how this stuff should work. And this is why I 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:39.280 think the political center is important in America is that 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:43.320 you should be able to objectively identify a problem and 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:46.679 have adults look at it from a different series of 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:50.680 different set of perspectives and say, yes, that's a problem. Right. 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:53.000 And then you have somebody who may be on the left, 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:55.120 But what are we going to do to solve the problem? Right? 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:57.640 We got to spend a billion dollars on this, right, 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:00.280 And you're kind of sitting where I sit in politics. Wow, 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:03.040 holy shit, right, a billion dollars And you look at 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:05.120 the right wing guy, You're like, what do you think 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:06.919 we got to do? I don't think we have to 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:09.320 do anything, or we got to spend one thousand dollars 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.560 on it? And you're like, I got one thousand dollars, right, 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:14.920 I don't know, I don't know, right, what about four 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:18.879 hundred million? Right? Like somewhere somewhere in the in the 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:21.879 center of this right that there's a that there's a 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:24.840 pragmatic sense, but I just don't think it's true, right, 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:27.000 And I and I think that this is a frame 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:32.560 that progressives and Democrats should think about because the prejudice 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:38.080 in the country breaks against big right for small rhetorically. 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:43.480 And the point is, right, this is the biggest, most unresponsive, 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:49.360 corrupt government that there's ever been. Wildly profligate with the 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:55.040 taxpayer dollars because part of the coalition has to include 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:59.879 people who care about the spending of their money. 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:05.359 Yeah, I think, no, I I I absolutely agree. But 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:08.120 I do think that that it needs to be done. 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:10.840 It needs to be reimagined in such a way that 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:13.680 we can actually make the functions of government work. But 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:18.840 I think abandoning abandoning government, you know, in deference to 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:24.920 this long standing MAGA principle of just shrinking it down 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:29.679 to nothing, is obviously not you know, the notion that 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:33.040 that we are here just to privatize everything and to 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:36.840 make to make it so that every single element of 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:42.560 our government is just ripe for some CEO to make 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:46.000 millions or billions of dollars as the results of our healthcare, 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:48.840 our social security, you name it. I think that that 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:52.679 is something that will eventually come if Democrats don't a 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:56.040 take power, be wheeled power, and see do it in 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:59.000 such a way that it's more effective. That doesn't allow 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:01.639 there to be so much fertile ground for Republicans to 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:04.600 come in and make these arguments that social security, for example, 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:05.640 needs to be privatized. 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:09.840 Yeah, listen, I think that FDR's great legacy is he 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:13.919 saved democracy all over the world, but he saved it 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:18.439 here at home first by saving free market American capitalism, right, 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:22.359 And that's what the New Deal did, much more, I think, 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:29.600 politically than it succeeded as a set of economic programs historically. 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:34.040 And I think that for this moment for Democrats, the 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:39.520 most important speeches that they could conceivably orient a campaign around, 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:43.840 or the nineteen thirty six FDR convention speech and the 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:48.399 FDR closing speech in Madison Square Garden, because they're the 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:53.919 most appropriate ethos for a Democratic party that needs to 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:59.080 reconnect to America's working men and women and be the 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:05.040 party for small against big. That's taken tremendous license in 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:08.320 an era that I think is fair to describe as 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:10.879 a as a second guilded age. And you know, for 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:15.200 the conversation we're having, you know, I ran a California 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:18.359 governor's race. I've lived all over California, mostly lived in 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:21.560 California over the last twenty years. Right, No Republicans in 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:25.600 Los Angeles were responsible right for the burning of the city. 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:30.840 You know, that was that was gross incompetence right across 0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:40.399 a wide panoply of players. There that undermines when you 0:22:40.480 --> 0:22:43.760 have a lack of performance by any public official in 0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:48.880 the Democratic Party in a high profile city, the fundamental 0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:51.679 cause that you believe in, because you have to be 0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:54.919 able to deliver a service. If you have a complicated question, 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:58.119 you know, on something like healthcare, you're inclined to at 0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:01.200 least I'm not inclined to listen to a person who 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:03.480 can't get water to the fire that they're going to 0:23:03.560 --> 0:23:08.359 be able to engineer the complexities of of something else. 0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:11.080 And I and I, and I think that's something Democrats 0:23:11.160 --> 0:23:14.880 have to have to reconcile with. But I, but I, 0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:17.560 but I, But I think I can tell you exactly 0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:21.320 how day one would open up in twenty twenty nine, Right, 0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:25.199 the first thing that the Democratic president would have to do. 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:29.000 And if I get run over by a bus later today, right, 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:31.280 this will be recorded, right, And I'm going to be 0:23:31.320 --> 0:23:37.160 proven right about this. Trump is not going to hang 0:23:37.240 --> 0:23:40.280 around and do any of the traditional stuff. He's going 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:43.880 to get on his Katori jet and head out somewhere 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:48.199 and in the in the question that's going to be 0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:53.200 on the media, a list is going to be what's 0:23:53.240 --> 0:23:57.320 the new president going to do about Trump's Katari plane? 0:23:57.600 --> 0:24:00.760 Is he going to keep the plane? Because trust me, 0:24:01.720 --> 0:24:04.720 the cameras are gonna be at Mara a Lago for 0:24:04.880 --> 0:24:12.160 the continuity of the of the reality show. And literally 0:24:13.680 --> 0:24:18.520 new president raises his hand and after he swears or 0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:22.679 she swears the thirty five word oath, he's gonna or 0:24:22.720 --> 0:24:26.719 she's gonna get three ruffles and flourishes, bupp up ba 0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:31.480 ba bah, a twenty one gun salute and Hail to 0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:34.520 the Chief, which is gonna take about five and a 0:24:34.640 --> 0:24:38.439 half minutes, which is time to shake hands, kiss the 0:24:38.480 --> 0:24:44.240 wife or husband, and sign about ten executive orders. And 0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:48.240 the first one of them, imagining he's still there, is 0:24:48.280 --> 0:24:53.560 the immediate firing of Cash Pattel and the ceiling of 0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:57.600 his office. The second one is the immediate relief of 0:24:57.680 --> 0:25:01.439 federal badges from every ice AG who completed the forty 0:25:01.560 --> 0:25:08.119 seven day training program between twenty January of twenty twenty five, 0:25:08.320 --> 0:25:13.439 and that exact moment and one of the most important things. 0:25:14.080 --> 0:25:17.560 And I'd love the job, Brians. I think I'd be 0:25:17.600 --> 0:25:19.720 great at it for six months, but I'd love a 0:25:19.760 --> 0:25:22.119 senior West wing job where I got to be the 0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:27.120 person to call Susie Wiles and to say listen wherever 0:25:27.160 --> 0:25:29.920 he's going with the plane. Very important for you all 0:25:29.960 --> 0:25:33.600 to be on the ground at noon. Otherwise it's flying 0:25:33.640 --> 0:25:36.840 back to Andrews where you can uber home to Bedminster 0:25:36.960 --> 0:25:41.800 or wherever the fuck is going. And then that day, 0:25:42.600 --> 0:25:48.520 no fucking around. Serious as a heart attack. R that 0:25:48.640 --> 0:25:51.840 is a US Air Force jet. The Commander in Chief 0:25:51.960 --> 0:25:54.680