1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: CBDCs will be irrelevant and they're nothing to worry about. 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: At least, that's what my guest CK has to say 3 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: as we get into this discussion talking about the weaponization 4 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: of the United States, the Treasury, the DOJ, the FDICE, 5 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: how they're cracking down on crypto staking regulations, and what's 6 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: happening even bigger outside the United States with the rest 7 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: of the world. He says that CBDCs won't ship and 8 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: they're nothing to worry about. So let's dig into this 9 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: conversation with CK. We're gonna talk about bihoin, We're gonna 10 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: talk about crypto, We're gonna talk about the staking, We're 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: gonna talk about the US government crackdown. We're gonna talk 12 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: about the rest of the world's demand where this is 13 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: going way into the future. We get into that conversation, 14 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: lots of fun, amazing conversation with c K. Let's go ahead, 15 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 1: just jump right into it, all right, c K, thanks 16 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 1: so much for joining me today. We have a lot 17 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: of questions. I've been working on some new big YouTube 18 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: videos and doing some research into some of these topics, 19 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: and I'm pretty excited to talk to you about them today. 20 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: So anyway, thanks for joining me. Yeah. Mark, super honored 21 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: to be here. Thank you so much for the invite, 22 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: and to the listeners. I know you're all big Marks, 23 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: big Mark Moss fans. I am as well. It's been 24 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: an honor to get to know you over these years 25 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 1: being in bitcoin. Thanks thanks, K appreciate that. So a 26 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 1: couple of things I want to talk about is the 27 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 1: big bad government and kind of this this choke point 28 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: two point zero that seems to be kind of coming 29 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: back around. Wilde seems to have in my opinion, I 30 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: think it's crashed the cryptocurrency markets back in twenty seventeen. 31 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: It seems to be coming back again. And then there's 32 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff going on in the cryptocurrency markets 33 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: against staking, against stable coins, things like that. So I 34 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: want to talk about those things, this potential choke point 35 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: two point zero that seems to be back, and some 36 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: other questions. So, you know, the first thing is I 37 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: like to say, just super simply, markets stopped going up 38 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: when there's no more buyers, which is why we have 39 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: blow off tops, because you suck in all the buyers 40 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: for that cycle, and then then it crashes back down 41 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen. Well even Previous to that, twenty fourteen 42 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: fifteen sixteen, the Obama administration had been implementing something called 43 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: Operation Choke Point, where they were basically cutting off funding 44 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: to lots of different organizations that were legal, legal organizations 45 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: like paid a lending, you know, AMMO guns, but legal 46 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: things where they're cutting off And then we saw at 47 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 1: the end of twenty seventeen they cut off access to 48 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: get into cryptocurrency, so cut off credit cards, banking, you 49 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: couldn't wire money to coin base to buy bitcoin anymore, 50 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: kind of a thing like that, And we're not going 51 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: to say it caused the crash, but it certainly didn't 52 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: help when no one could get into the market. Now 53 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: we're kind of at this point where maybe with Gary Gensler, 54 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: the SEC looks completely horrible. They should shut down and disgrace. 55 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: In my opinion, over FT fiasco, they didn't where they 56 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: weren't able to protect anybody. But now it seems like 57 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: they're coming after like innocent people maybe and really coming 58 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: hard after staking and stable coins. So let's dig into 59 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: that for a minute. Let's start with the Let's start 60 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: with the stable coin issue. Now, anyway, let's start with that. 61 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: What's your take on them coming after these stable coins, 62 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: Like they're cracking down on Paxos, which is a a 63 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: regulated exchange in New York, no less, which is the 64 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: harshest state to be regulated in, and they're saying that 65 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: a stable coin is a security. I mean, I wish 66 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: that I was more of an expert insecurities, but I 67 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: can tell you this. You know, the crackdowns on stable coins, 68 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: the crackdowns on staking, these are things that bitcoiners have 69 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: been kind of forecasting for a long time. There are 70 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: deaf only trade offs, you know, only focusing on Bitcoin. 71 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: But there's a reason for that, and that is that 72 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: Bitcoin is actually separate from the system. Bitcoin is not 73 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: a security, that's been said by the CFTC, the SEC 74 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: And if you just kind of like look at what 75 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: a security is offering is on paper, Bitcoin doesn't, you know, 76 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: fails that test. So it's really the only thing that's 77 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 1: fully kind of outside of the existing regulatory arm. But 78 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 1: when it comes to stable coins, when it comes to 79 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: staking and this kind of stuff, it's all part of 80 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: the fiat system. So at some point it has to 81 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: conform to whatever the rules or whatever the expectations are 82 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: of it, whether that those rules or expectations are effective 83 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: or just or whatever. So you know, it's it's becoming 84 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: like the writing is on the wall. If you're holding 85 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: significant value and quote unquote stable coins, Uh, you know 86 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: those are not safe by any means, and they're not 87 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: they're not separate from or or or different than any 88 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: other uh you know, illegal financial or legal or illegal 89 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:20,359 Speaker 1: financial instrument. Yeah. I just to kind of clarify what 90 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: you said. You said that bitcoin is the only one 91 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: that's kind of outside of the financial system or the 92 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: regulatory system. It's not that it's outside of it, it's 93 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: that the previous head of the SEC J. Clayton and 94 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: Gary Ginsler both said that bitcoin is a commodity, and 95 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: Gary Ginzler reiterated that it's the only one I'm willing 96 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: to say that about. So, um, they're out of the 97 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: out of the crosshairs of the security crackdown. I think 98 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: it's probably what you're meaning. Yeah, I mean bitcoin is 99 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: its own thing, and bitcoin is not reliant on any 100 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: entity outside of itself and its incentives to persist. So 101 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 1: when it comes to these stable coins, they're all reliant 102 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: on bank accounts and dollar equivalent assets and traditional banking, 103 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: and they're all trying to serve a legacy product. They're 104 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: trying to serve a dollar in a method that works 105 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: for different kinds of users. There's immense amount of demand 106 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: for that. Our CEO, David Bailey was recently in Turkey 107 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 1: right after the horrific earthquake there and the place is 108 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 1: completely taken over by tether, stable coin, and bitcoin because 109 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: the lira has failed and people are trying to get 110 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: into dollars. And that's the only thing that you know, 111 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 1: has really had significant market penetration because it is slightly permissionless, 112 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 1: but it's still part of the dollar system, and that 113 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: is you know, that is going to put it within 114 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: the purview of US regulators and ultimately, you know, hold 115 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:58,679 Speaker 1: those instruments back, especially if they don't kind of bend 116 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: the knee to what is meeting dollars from getting into 117 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: Turkey and other places like that in the first place. Right, 118 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: they have to conform because they're tied to the existing system. Yeah, 119 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: and they certainly don't want to give up control over that. 120 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: It's interesting. So he was in Turkey after that and 121 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: he's seeing a massive amount of adoption going on there. 122 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: That's what he's that's what's reporting back. Oh yeah, I 123 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: mean the lira is in complete, is in complete, shabbles 124 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: and yeah he was, he was posting pictures within our slack, 125 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: our internal slack. And it's just like one money changer 126 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: after another. Everyone is using tether. Um. You know, you 127 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: get into a cab and you know their preferred their 128 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: preferred money is tether. Yeah, now what do you think 129 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: about um? So, so just for everybody listening, I mean 130 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: I agree with everything that you're saying there. Um. We 131 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: we're kind of stuck though, in this kind of like 132 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: transitional period though, right where we're kind of moving from 133 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: one legacy system as you called it, as I call 134 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: it um dying and another system UM. And it seems 135 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: like these stable coins have some sort of a use 136 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: case in this interim process and in emerging markets, right, 137 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: I mean, people need something to transact with. I think 138 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: you would probably agree, correct me if I'm wrong. But 139 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: you know, Bitcoin may not be the best form of 140 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: money for your daily and weekly spending because of the 141 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: volatility going up and down. And so maybe these stable 142 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: coins kind of work as this medium exchange and bitcoin 143 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: kind of more of a store of value maybe working together, 144 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: and so maybe they're they're important in this kind of 145 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: like interim step. They're totally important. Here's the reality is 146 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: money is a medium exchange, a store of value, and 147 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: a unit of account. The unit of account part is 148 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: literally a mental operating system. Right, So the world is 149 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: running on the dollar as the unit of account. Right. 150 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: That means we have to get ninety nine percent of 151 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: the population to change how they measure value on paper 152 00:08:56,040 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: in contracts in their head to something different. And until 153 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: that happens, until everyone changes their programming to bitcoin. Uh, 154 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: you know, something that's like a a permissionless dollar cash 155 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: token is going to be super useful because it kind 156 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,959 Speaker 1: of falls in the middle, but it definitely has issues. Right. 157 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: There's a reason why Stoshi, you know, he chose fixed 158 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 1: supply and not fixed value because that's something that you 159 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 1: could do in a desentualized market base, whereas like something 160 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: that's based off of another fiat, like it's inherently always 161 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: going to be tied to h you know that system. 162 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: So I think sable coins are super helpful, right, but 163 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: if you zoom out, like why are they helpful is 164 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: because US dollar banking is permissioned and they purposely marginalize 165 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 1: populations that's part of the system. So it's like, who 166 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: makes the unbanked, Well, it's the bankers, right, it's not 167 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 1: it's not like cash is not helping them. It's not 168 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: like there isn't financial instruments that are emerging in the 169 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: markets that have permissionlessly served people across the planet. It's 170 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: literally banks and permission that it's part of the system. 171 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: So you know, the stable for oins have kind of 172 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: found this niche where you can use a permission a 173 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: semi permissionless blockchain, you can use tokens that resemble a 174 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:24,439 Speaker 1: dollar and generally hold value against a dollar. And that's 175 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: something that people who have been cut out of banking systems, 176 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: whether it's the lira or I forget what the Lebanese 177 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 1: currency is called, where you know the currency is being devalued, 178 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: banks are shutting down, they're losing their accounts and they 179 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 1: need to turn to something else, or whether it's like 180 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: in Africa where there's there's no access to bank accounts 181 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: in the first place, they need something else. So you know, 182 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: the culprit here is banking, it's government, it's kyc that 183 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: unbanked people that create this need for people to get 184 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: financial instruments on the Internet that are permissionless, and we're 185 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: living in a dollar world still, so of course a 186 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 1: permission US dollar token is going to have a lot 187 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: of utility. Yeah, that's such a good point that you 188 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: bring up. I mean, you know, I believe that the 189 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: unbanked has been coming down. I think in like twentyeen 190 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: it was like close to two billion adults, and it's 191 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: it's been dwindling down a little bit, but still we 192 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: have over a billion people without access to banking. And 193 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: to your point, it's because they don't have permission to join. 194 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: It's a banking and government failure. Like before, before electronic banking, 195 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: before permission banking, no one didn't have access to cash 196 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: or precious metals or whatever. Those things always had a 197 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: market rate and we're you know, the they were you know, 198 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: a bear instrument, if you will. So once you got 199 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: into that permissioned internet banking world, that's where the marginalization started. 200 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 1: That's where the unbanked happened. Right, It's a failure to 201 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: to serve those people, either purposefully or or or you know, 202 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: just based on incompetence or unwillingness to do something whatever. 203 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: But it's it's actually a a failure from the banking 204 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: and government sector why people are unbanked in the first place. Yeah, certainly, 205 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: I mean with the permission aspect, and so if you're 206 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 1: a fifteen year old kid growing up in Iran, sorry, 207 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,079 Speaker 1: you don't get access to the bank. There's also or 208 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: in the US. Yeah, I mean it's it's ages too, 209 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 1: So I'm bullish on bitcoin unlocking the potential within our 210 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: youth as well. Yeah, that's true, you know, but also 211 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: then you have like an El Salvador. It's just not 212 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:26,959 Speaker 1: economical for people to have bank accounts, right, So it's 213 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 1: like it's twenty five bucks a month to have a 214 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: bank account. I can't afford twenty five bucks a month, 215 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: so I don't have a bank account either. Or it's 216 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: like it's it's I'm so rural for me to get 217 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: on a bus and ride five hours to a bank 218 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: and then I don't even have the documentation. But I 219 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: guess that goes back to the permission aspect of it. Yeah, 220 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: but government's marginalizing people. That's why most people are unbanked. 221 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean it goes to say, like if 222 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: most people can't afford bank accounts, you know, it makes 223 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: you think, like who's paying the bank like where Like 224 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: clearly they're not making their money by serving customers, so 225 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: they're making the money somewhere else. Yeah, and that's a 226 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: good point, you know. I think it's important for everyone 227 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: listening to pay attention because what happens is we apply 228 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: our own biases to these things typically, and so typically 229 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: what I hear is everyone looking from this very US 230 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: centric viewpoint of like, what's wrong with our money? What's 231 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: wrong with the banking system? It seems to work pretty 232 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,439 Speaker 1: good for me, without taking into consideration the rest of 233 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: the world that is, to your point, being marginalized because 234 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: of this, and it seems like jumping into another form 235 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: of digital money. We have these now CBDCs that they 236 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: want to shove down our throat, and a lot of 237 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 1: these governments, you know, you got the IMF or the ECB, 238 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: and they're like, well, what people want is they want 239 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: digital money. That's the problem we need to give them. Look, 240 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: Bitcoin just shows that they want digital money, So let's 241 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: just give them digital money and then that will solve everything. 242 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: They think without taking the consideration it's not the digital money, 243 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: it's the access and permission that people want. Yeah, I mean, 244 00:13:56,679 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: I personally, I'm a CBDC respect and I personally do 245 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: not think that they will ever ship. They will never 246 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: actually make any real market impact. I know that there's 247 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: a lot of people who are in the United States 248 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: or globally period A lot of people are fearful of CBDCs. 249 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: They will never ship, and when they do ship, they're 250 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: gonna have a difficult time with adoption. And where will 251 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: bitcoin be? I think that's the key here is. You know, 252 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: you look at the Bank of England. They're saying, oh, 253 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: we're gonna ship the britcoin in twenty thirty. Well, where's 254 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: bitcoin going to be in twenty thirty, right? Bitcoin is 255 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: out in the wild in production, right, we're talking about 256 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: the ECB Central Bank digital currency. You know, also similar 257 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: forecast twenty twenty five to twenty thirty, still in you know, beta, 258 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: still testing, still doing all this stuff. Well, you know, 259 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: the longer that these entities don't ship. And again I 260 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: don't think that you know, many people even within these 261 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: different governments, are saying CBDC is a solution looking for 262 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: a problem. You know, I really don't think. I'm not 263 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: fear full of them. I don't think that they're gonna ship, 264 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: and I'm you know, honestly, I'm not very confident and 265 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: really any government's ability to compete against bitcoin as digital 266 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: money in the long run, well, I think they're gonna ship. 267 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: I would agree with the second part, though, I don't 268 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: think it can compete. And we can see this in 269 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: real time. So obviously China's shipped. There's in Nigeria, they've 270 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: shipped the Niara, that e Niara, But the problem is 271 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: they can't get anybody to use it. They can't get 272 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: anybody to adopt it, and so they tried first the carrot, 273 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: which was like, hey, if you use this, you know, 274 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: we'll give you discounts off your taxi, cabs, etc. Nobody 275 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: wanted that. That was the carrot. So then came the stick, 276 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: which is like, well then we're gonna limit all cash 277 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: withdraws and force you to use it. But the people, 278 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: you know, are like, wait a minute, we didn't want 279 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: It's not that we didn't want it because it wasn't digital. 280 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: It's because the Niara continues to lose value, you continue 281 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: to evase it. That's why we don't want to And 282 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: the e Nira is the exact same thing. So we 283 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: already got bitcoin like we're good, Like we're rejecting that, 284 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, yeah, bitcoin is here and bitcoin 285 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: is still nascent, So where's bitcoin gonna be twenty thirty, right, 286 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: you know, that's that's another seven years from now. I'm 287 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: calling for hyper big cooinization. Mark. I don't know about you, 288 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: but you know, I think brickcoin is going to be 289 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: quite the joke if they're trying to ship in twenty thirty. 290 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: The other thing that I'm the thing I'm slightly bullish on, 291 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: or maybe not slightly, maybe heavily bullish on, is the 292 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: incompetence of the government. And so I mean I was 293 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: looking at some things. I'm sure everybody remembers the famous 294 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: Obamacare website rollout where they spent like billions of dollars 295 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: to build a website that just helps you shop insurance plans, 296 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: Like we don't have like a million of those, and 297 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: they weren't billion dollars and they couldn't even get that working. 298 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: We have the IRS. The IRS has been trying to 299 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: overhaul the computer system for decades. They every year send 300 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: out millions of tax returns that are wrong because the 301 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: software is no good. Last year they said Okay, fine, 302 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: we give up. We're not going to overhaul the software. 303 00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: We're just going to fix the core things, and we 304 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: hope to have it done by twenty thirty. Like, but 305 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: the court things by twenty thirty. What where's bitcoin gonna be? Mark? Yeah, 306 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: So every time they say that something where's bitcoin going 307 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: to be? Bitcoin is innovating faster than you can imagine 308 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: in a compounding manner. So good luck. Now what's interesting 309 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,120 Speaker 1: I think too, back to kind of having this US 310 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: centric viewpoint right where it's like if we look at 311 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: it just from a developed world or a US centric world, like, 312 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: it's it's one one view. But one thing that I 313 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: keep in mind, I mean back to kind of your 314 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: point bringing up Turkey emerging markets is where they really 315 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 1: have the use case, where they have the need. I mean, 316 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: if you're in North Korea, you don't have to convince 317 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: somebody why that money is no good, or in Turkey 318 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 1: or you know, Argentina or whatever. And so one thing 319 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: I've been thinking about is like, um, you know, the 320 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 1: Internet grew really fast in the United States because we 321 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: had phone lines everywhere, but we saw like in Africa 322 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: they leap frog past that and went straight to wireless. 323 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: So now the dollar, if you look at the dollar 324 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 1: above everything, the dollars like a payment network. It's like 325 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: a wired network right with a correspondent banks and the 326 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,239 Speaker 1: Swift system, and so that system and a lot of 327 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: dollar bowls will tell you, Like even I had Nick 328 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: Bodion and he was talking about how the dollar can't 329 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 1: be replaced because of this network that's there, just like 330 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: the phone lines were there for the Internet, but then 331 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: it leap frog past that and went straight to a 332 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: new network, a wireless network. And I think we're seeing 333 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: that happen with bitcoin, where we're seeing this adoption really 334 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: happening in Africa, in Turkey, in South America, etc. Yeah, 335 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 1: I mean I say it simply. Bitcoin is money that works. 336 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: That's it like, And as long as it continues to work, 337 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 1: it will continue to be adopted. And it always wins 338 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: on the margins, so it wins in the most marginalized places. 339 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: And really where we see this idea of hyper bitcoinization 340 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 1: is when the margin or the mark I guess like 341 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: the overall size of the bitcoin market reaches parody or 342 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: close to parody with the size of the traditional market. 343 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: And then and then I think that's where you know, 344 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: the the S curve kind of goes vertical, So bitcoin 345 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: wins at the margins. It wins in the areas that 346 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: are being purposely unbanked, debased, shut out, sanctioned, whatever. That's 347 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 1: where bitcoin will will win. Bitcoin's going to just take 348 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: all the low hanging fruit and continue to get bigger 349 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: and bigger. And you know, I agree that, like, people 350 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 1: who have very very bad money are obviously going to 351 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 1: turn to bitcoin and other alternatives more readily, especially because 352 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: they've felt the pain. But I don't think that the 353 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 1: first world doesn't need it per se. Actually think that 354 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: the first world has been held back very much by 355 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: their exorbitant privilege and by the dollar. And there is 356 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: no way for us in retrospect to calculate or try 357 00:19:55,600 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: to make make, you know, try to like evaluate what 358 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: was lost because of inflation, what was lost because of 359 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 1: the poor incentives from the Federal Reserve and from dollar 360 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: printing and from the cantle On effect. It's going to 361 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: be impossible to evaluate that. But I can guarantee you 362 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: that using bitcoin, a perfect monetary system with a clear 363 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: and fair mechanism for distributing coins and managing a monetary 364 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: policy that an economy will will be superior on that 365 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 1: kind of a foundation. So I'm very excited for a 366 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: world on a bitcoin standard, and I'm very excited for 367 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: the West to embrace bitcoin. Finally it might get leap frogged. 368 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: It's most likely going to hit critical mass in the 369 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: Global South and in the Middle East, in other places 370 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: that are really on the losing end of the dollar. 371 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: But everyone is a loser from the dollar. No one 372 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: is a winner. Yeah, I certainly agree with that. I 373 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: guess I wasn't saying that we don't we don't need it. 374 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: Certainly we need it. I think it's just that humans, 375 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 1: we typically only move when the pain gets high enough, 376 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: and a lot of us have different pain thresholds. It's 377 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 1: kind of like that junkie, right, They're only going to 378 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: seek rehab or seek change when they hit rock bottom. 379 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: And so everybody's going to be forced to move at 380 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: some point. It just depends on how early or how 381 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 1: much pain you have or something like that. And so 382 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,160 Speaker 1: if you're in Argentina or Venezuela or North Korea or Turkey, 383 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 1: like you have a really big need to do something asap, 384 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: whereas in the United States, like we're bleeding slowly, you know, 385 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: so like we can kind of especially relative. Yeah, I'm 386 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: going to I was gonna say, I'm going to Argentina 387 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: next month, and you know, everything I prepaid for as 388 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: all of a sudden gotten a lot cheaper. So I 389 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: should have just waited as hyperinflation ripped. But yeah, I mean, 390 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: it's definitely cushy being the beneficiary of receiving dollars directly 391 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: and being in the United States. But you know, as 392 00:21:58,080 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 1: you look at the map, the rest of the world 393 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 1: is hurt. And I think here, here's one of the 394 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: most insidious things about the dollar system, mark, is that 395 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: the dollar system is a global system. The dollar system 396 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: marginalizes in de banks people, and the dollar system requires 397 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 1: that the dollar system actually can't support one hundred percent 398 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: of the planet on a fair system. The dollar system 399 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: requires that seventy percent of the planet is either enslaved 400 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,400 Speaker 1: or debanked or destitute in order to support a lifestyle 401 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: for a smaller and smaller percentage of wealthy elites. Why 402 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: why does it require that the seventy percent of the 403 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: people are unbanked? I mean, how do you get your 404 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: products without slavery in Africa? Mining? That cobaal right, like, 405 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: how how does how do the French deal with keeping 406 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: costs down in France without the CFA frank and without 407 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: being able to extort everyone who is inside of that 408 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: system in Africa? It can't. These systems require extortion. They 409 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: require then, they couldn't without they couldn't without massive inflation. 410 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:05,880 Speaker 1: Yeah sure, but you know that these systems are systems 411 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 1: of control, their system of colonialization, and their whole purpose 412 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: is to extract resources. Alex glad Scene's done an enormous 413 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: amount of incredible work around this, around the IMF, around 414 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 1: the World Bank, around the CFA Franc, around the Petro 415 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: dollar system. All of these systems are around extracting resources 416 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: from the global South and putting them into the West. 417 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: It's all about getting cheap labor from elsewhere and shipping 418 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: those products to the US for so they can be consumers. 419 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: And that's it's part of the design. They don't function otherwise, 420 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: they don't give benefit to the West otherwise. Yeah, shout 421 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: out to shout out to glad Seam for doing all 422 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: that work on that. He wrote a check your financial privilege, 423 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,400 Speaker 1: you know, kind of breaking this down and really kind 424 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: of put this whole CFA Franc issue into my radar. 425 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: Right lately we saw the new PM of Italy. Maloney 426 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: was thrown it in Macrone's face saying, you're still you know, 427 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: you're still doing this colonialism with your CFA franc. And 428 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,160 Speaker 1: so for those listening that don't really understand what that means, 429 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: basically colonialism is where you know, the colonial powers France, England, Spain, 430 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,919 Speaker 1: et cetera, would go and basically take over areas, islands, whatever. 431 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: But then what's happened is France forces these areas of 432 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: Africa to use France's money, this CFA franc, but France 433 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,880 Speaker 1: itself doesn't even use it. France uses the Euro. So 434 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 1: like they're forcing these African countries to use a currency 435 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 1: that they don't even use themselves. And the reason to 436 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: see case point is what they do is they continue 437 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: to inflate that currency to make the goods they're buying 438 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: cheaper and cheaper and cheaper, basically stealing from the people. 439 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: And so they're doing that, They're using this control with 440 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: the currency that they don't even use themselves. Again, Mark, 441 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 1: the only way these systems work is by exploitation. If 442 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,919 Speaker 1: they were one hundred percent fair, then there'd be no 443 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: reason to maintain them, right that we go back to 444 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 1: old so like again the whole purpose, like the dollar 445 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: requires seventy percent of the world to be unbanked, destitute, 446 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,880 Speaker 1: and slaved like that is the dollar requires that. Otherwise 447 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:15,159 Speaker 1: they would have probably solved it by now. Yeah, yeah, 448 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: that was it really put that That Joe Rogan interview 449 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 1: where he talked about the kids, you know, bringing the 450 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: lithium or whatever, the cobalt out of the minds really 451 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: kind of put it front and center to everybody, and 452 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 1: you can see just kind of how that's that's affecting 453 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: people down there. I think, you know, moving on past 454 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 1: the monetary system, now they're using the energy system for that, right, 455 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: So now they're trying to restrict these countries from getting 456 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: in any energy, and the energy is what would also 457 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: help bring these people out of um you know, bondage, 458 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: of of of being broke basically and could bring prosperity 459 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: to those countries. And I guess maybe that fits in 460 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 1: with kind of the point that you're making, which is 461 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: maybe that's just another way to keep them down so 462 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: they continue to bring that slave labor to market. We 463 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: need to keep our carbon down so that the upper 464 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: thirty percent can consume an exorbitant amount in the bottom 465 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: sent you know, can can maintain the floor, right, So 466 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: use these systems of control are systems of control, and 467 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: they're about improving the lives of the elite and subjecting 468 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: everyone else to destitution. So Bitcoin is the opposite. Bitcoin's 469 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: about bringing the world online. Bitcoin's about bringing energy resources online. 470 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: Bitcoin's about creating P to P networks and creating P 471 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,239 Speaker 1: to P infrastructure across the globe. So that's why you 472 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 1: see Bitcoin is blowing up at the margins, the areas 473 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,399 Speaker 1: that have been marginalized. So this is why bitcoin, This 474 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,360 Speaker 1: is why I work at Bitcoin Magazine, This is why 475 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 1: we put on the Bitcoin conference, is why we educate 476 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: the world about bitcoin. And I think this is you know, 477 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: why you do what you do at Market Structures. Yeah. Um, 478 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: if anybody's doubting what CK is saying right there, there 479 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: was a video clip of good old Bill Gates going 480 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,120 Speaker 1: around the other day and they said, don't you think 481 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 1: you're a hypocrite talking about you know, all this CO 482 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: two emission, but you're flying around all in your private 483 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: jet And he said, no, not at all, because I donate, 484 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 1: I spend billions of dollars to offset that by buying 485 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: carbon credits. So what he's basically saying is you're broke, 486 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: You're a peasant. You can't afford to pay or buy 487 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,719 Speaker 1: these fake things to offer your energy, so you just 488 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 1: need to stay in place. But because he's rich and 489 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: he's privileged, he has the money and he can pay 490 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: for that. So if you doubt it, think about that now. 491 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: M c k. You are the general manager, very general 492 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: the general manager at Bitcoin Magazine, and Bitcoin Magazine has 493 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: been putting on the largest largest bitcoin conference in the 494 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 1: world for a number of years. I think twenty nineteen 495 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: might have been the first year. ACRAC I don't know 496 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: if he's it's twenteen first. Yeah, and it has gotten big, 497 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: I mean from that first one in twenty nineteen, I 498 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: don't know, a few thousand people maybe too. I believe 499 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: last year was like thirty five thousand people, and so, like, 500 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: what do you see with like the growth of that, 501 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 1: with the demand and with the space kind of evolving overall? Yeah, No, 502 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: it's absolutely wild and it's been amazing having you a 503 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 1: part of every single one of those. So thank you 504 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: so much for you know, speaking and supporting and attending 505 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 1: all of our events mark. But yeah, Bitcoin twenty nineteen 506 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: eighteen hundred people. Bitcoin twenty twenty was on track for 507 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: four thousand, got canceled due to COVID. Bitcoin twenty twenty 508 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: one twelve thousand people. Bitcoin twenty twenty two upwards of 509 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: twenty five thousand people, not quite thirty five thousand, but 510 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: we'll hit that mark soon. And it's been wild seeing 511 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: it go from, you know, an enthusiast led conference to 512 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: one of the biggest fintech events in the world, right so, 513 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: and I really do feel like the event is a 514 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: physical instantiation of the bitcoin ecosystem. So like in twenty nineteen, 515 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: at that point, there was only so many people and 516 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: so many businesses willing to come together to celebrate bitcoin. 517 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: And then fast forward three years, you know, we've we've 518 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: effectively ten x that, right, and we have the biggest 519 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: companies in the world participating and all of the major 520 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: financial players, governors, mayors, presidents attending speaking wanting to do 521 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: what they can to get in front of and show 522 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: leadership in bitcoin. And that's why I say, where's bitcoin 523 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: going to be in twenty thirty when bitcoin tries to 524 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: ship is because I've seen the bitcoin ecosystem in person 525 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: expand exponentially, so you know, but you know, what's Bitcoin 526 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: twenty thirty You're going to look like, you know, our 527 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: impression is it's going to be one of the biggest 528 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: events on the planet period. It's gonna be like the 529 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: pilgrimage of bitcoiners and of this movement. And it's going 530 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: to be an energy conference, it's going to be a 531 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: markets conference, it's going to be a personal help conference, 532 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: it's gonna be a culture conference. Know, it's gonna try 533 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: to encampsulate all of these elements that make bitcoin a multifaceted, 534 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: in very fascinating ecosystem. Yeah. Yeah, I think it is 535 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: definitely shows the growth of that, and it's like a 536 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: perfect proxy to show the growth of that. And I mean, man, 537 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: from whatever nineteen hundred to twenty five thousand people. I'm 538 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:25,239 Speaker 1: curious though, Um, I mean last year, I guess we 539 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: were already kind of in that downward decline, right, Um, 540 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: I'm curious that now we're kind of maybe in the 541 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: depths of the bearer market, if you will, in bitcoin price, 542 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: crypto overall is completely soured with you know, FTX and 543 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: the crack down there of crypto ascids are down on 544 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: the gutter, but bitcoin bitcoin prices down as well. I'm curious, 545 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: do you think that's going to affect the event at 546 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: all or or have you seen it as I mean, 547 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: great question. So you know, last Bitcoin twenty twenty two, 548 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: the bitcoin price was about forty five thousand dollars, so 549 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: we've come down more than fifty percent from there, but 550 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: the ticket sales have not slowed down at all. Um. 551 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: It's actually been absolutely incredible seeing how resilient the ticket 552 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: sales element are. From a sponsor perspective, they're in a 553 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: very different position. Sponsors are hurting. Companies in the space 554 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: are hurting. Usually, companies are a lot more over leverage 555 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: than individuals, and we can definitely see that in both 556 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: their appetites as well as their marketing budgets and even 557 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: you know kind of like looking down the line of 558 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: rosters of sponsors from last year, you know some of 559 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: them aren't even with us anymore, which is it's sad 560 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: to see, but you know, that's one of the beauties 561 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: of bitcoin is that you know you're not too big 562 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: to fail, and that you know there there's kind of 563 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: like this market cleansing that happens every few sites, every 564 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: few years. But with that being said, you know, sure 565 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: the crypto ecosystem is taking hits, the bitcoin eCos the 566 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: bitcoin native ecosystems taking hits from a sponsor perspective, But 567 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: now we're getting interest from energy companies. Now we're getting 568 00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: in trist from other entities, from real from real finance 569 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,959 Speaker 1: companies who are eagerly looking forward to how do we 570 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: start to make moves in bitcoin. So, you know, despite 571 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: the market, the price of bitcoin going down, despite bitcoin 572 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: native companies and crypto native companies, um hurting, um, We're 573 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: we're still seeing a lot of optimism just because bitcoin 574 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: is getting more serious and bitcoin is integrating into energy 575 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 1: and finance in a much more real and much more 576 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: tangible way than ever before. Yeah, speaking of I see 577 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: a Shell oil icon on your list of sponsors. What's 578 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: up with that? Yeah, they came inbound. They were like, hey, 579 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: we were at bitcoin right, Like, yeah, yeah, the big one, 580 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: the one that you that that always has way too 581 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: expensive gas at the pump. It's always like twenty percent 582 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: more than than the next one. But yeah, I mean, 583 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: I guess that's quality. I really don't know how to 584 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: evaluate what oil is better than others. But Shell is 585 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: one of the biggest energy companies in the world, and 586 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: they attended our event last year and they wanted to 587 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: be a part of this event this year. There. You know, 588 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: my mental model for bitcoin mining is that bitcoin mining 589 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,479 Speaker 1: is necessary for energy companies and energy producers to be 590 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: competitive into the future. Bitcoin mining introduces an immense amount 591 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 1: of efficiency within the energy markets, especially as a producer, 592 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: and because of that, every energy company will be a 593 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: part of the bitcoin industry, and every energy company will 594 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: want to be a part of the Bitcoin conference. So 595 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 1: Shell is the first, They're definitely not the last. Our Inbound, 596 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 1: as I've been bragging about on Twitter, has been absolutely 597 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: wild with the amount of B to B interest that's 598 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: coming in. And there are other companies that we're speaking 599 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: to and that are interested in this event that you know, 600 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: I can't speak about now because things aren't efficient quite yet. 601 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: But I don't think I don't think that Shell is 602 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: going to be the last. Yeah, wow, I mean what 603 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 1: I can say. So, first of off, Bitcoin Miami again 604 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:14,760 Speaker 1: this year May eighteenth through twentieth of this year in Miami. 605 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: Check it out b dot TC Slash conference. Man. It 606 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: started in California, and then because of the COVID pandemic 607 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 1: got kicked to the East coast and now it's over there, 608 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: so I gotta travel. But it's a good place to 609 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 1: go to. So check that out b dot TC slash 610 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,479 Speaker 1: conference and check out. I'll be there speaking. You should 611 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: come hang out. I want to shift gears a little bit. Well, 612 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 1: I want what I do want to say just real 613 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 1: quick for anybody listening that's somewhat interested in this, is 614 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 1: that you know, the world changed a lot of the 615 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 1: last couple of years, and everything's become super polarized, and 616 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,280 Speaker 1: everybody's at each other's throats, and a lot of people 617 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,439 Speaker 1: who maybe used to be really good friends with maybe 618 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: you're not that good of friends with, and maybe where 619 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,800 Speaker 1: you live, like where I live, I don't have really 620 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: good deep conversations with people around me. And so now 621 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: it's required that I travel a lot to go find 622 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: that community, build that community with people that I vibe 623 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 1: with right the vibe, And what I would say is 624 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: that at the Bitcoin conference, it's almost like this electricity 625 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: in the air where you feel like this vibration, this 626 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 1: high vibration where and I believe it's it comes from 627 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: that many people coming together that share values. Like the media, 628 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 1: I want to tell us that we align on race 629 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: or sex or gender preference, whatever it is, but we 630 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: align on values. And then the higher those values are, 631 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,240 Speaker 1: the more that we're attracted together, the more that we align. 632 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:39,280 Speaker 1: And so I think bitcoin it for me represents freedom 633 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,840 Speaker 1: for me, mostly for other people, it represents opportunity, represents 634 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:45,399 Speaker 1: a lot of different things. But when you bring those 635 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,799 Speaker 1: people together with those shared values, I mean, the vibe 636 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 1: is high. This is your tribe. This is where the 637 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 1: good conversations come. And so you can't get the same 638 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,440 Speaker 1: from watching the YouTube videos. You can't get it. It's 639 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: kind of it's it's like watching you know, it's like 640 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,399 Speaker 1: listening to a CD and then going to a live 641 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,720 Speaker 1: concert right emily completely different. So anyway, I'd recommend checking 642 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,919 Speaker 1: that out. Be dot tc slash conference. Yeah, and Mark, 643 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: if I could just say one last thing, it's I 644 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: really do think that the twenty twenty one event was 645 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:20,720 Speaker 1: really really special because it highlighted how different and how 646 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: individual and how freedom focused and liberty focused the bitcoin 647 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,400 Speaker 1: community in particular is compared to the entire rest of 648 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 1: the world. I truly believe that bitcoiners are at They're 649 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: at the bleeding edge of freedom right and because of that, 650 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: they were capable and willing to come twenty five thousand strong, 651 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:51,399 Speaker 1: or sorry, come twelve thousand strong together at the depth 652 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,760 Speaker 1: of the pandemic, at the peak fear, before the vac's 653 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: mandates or any of this stuff started rolling out, Bitcoiners 654 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 1: were gathering, and I believe on Event break in twenty 655 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 1: twenty one, we were like the second biggest event in 656 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: the entire world on their platform just because we are 657 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 1: the We're literally the only ones gathering. So, you know, 658 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 1: being able to come together with people who are not scared, 659 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:19,480 Speaker 1: people who are hopeful, people who care about freedom and liberty, 660 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: and people who really have very little bias outside of 661 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: you know, do we agree on those high level values. 662 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 1: It's intoxicating. So I'm so proud to be able to 663 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: put this on. I'm so proud to be able to 664 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: work every single year to create this environment and create 665 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:43,439 Speaker 1: this this pilgrimage for freedom fighters and freedom lovers. And yeah, 666 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 1: I mean I couldn't recommend it more so, Uh Yeah, 667 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 1: go to bettc May eighteenth through the twentieth in Miami Beach. 668 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,239 Speaker 1: It's going to be an amazing show. Just just to 669 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,439 Speaker 1: kind of comment on what he said, right, It's it's 670 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,240 Speaker 1: not hyperbole when we talk about the freedom aspect, because 671 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:02,399 Speaker 1: without the freedom to transact, there is no freedom at all. 672 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:04,320 Speaker 1: And so what we're seeing what I kind of started 673 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: the interview with was talking about this operation choke point 674 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 1: and to choke point two point no, where basically you 675 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 1: have the government, the Treasury, the FDIC, the DOJ, etc. 676 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: Basically taking away freedoms not by law or legislation, but 677 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 1: by cutting off access to payments. And so if I'm 678 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,320 Speaker 1: guaranteed by my constitution the right to assemble, but I 679 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,840 Speaker 1: can't put gas in my truck to drive to the assembly, 680 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: I don't have freedom. And so it always starts with 681 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,920 Speaker 1: the freedom to transact. Everything starts there, and so that's 682 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,440 Speaker 1: why all freedom springs from the ability to hold my 683 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:41,839 Speaker 1: money and transact. That absolutely I want to I want 684 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: to just jump to another topic that seems to be 685 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: hot right now, and that is that you know, I've 686 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,840 Speaker 1: talked about bitcoin as being like this sixth technological revolution, 687 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,840 Speaker 1: and how technological revolutions are are bigger than most people realize. 688 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 1: They're not new technologies, they're revolutions and they change the 689 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,840 Speaker 1: course of humanity. And one of the things with technological 690 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 1: revolutions is they give us a new building block that 691 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,759 Speaker 1: allows us to build new things. If I had a 692 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 1: deck of cards, I could build like a TP. If 693 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 1: I have legos, I could build something more complex. So 694 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 1: it's a different building block. Steel allowed us to build 695 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:14,880 Speaker 1: skyscrapers and bridges. But also one day we made a 696 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 1: space shuttle out of it, right, and so it's like 697 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,520 Speaker 1: new building blocks. And I'm just curious, you know, these 698 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 1: new technological revolutions they have like a first killer application, 699 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,760 Speaker 1: so electricity, which was I think the third technological revolution. 700 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:33,240 Speaker 1: The first application was a light bulb like a digital candle, 701 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 1: but that's not what all one electricity was. It was 702 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: the first killer application. And I'm just curious with your 703 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: thoughts on this because the Bitcoin time chain, not the blockchain, 704 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,680 Speaker 1: the Bitcoin time chain gives us a new set of 705 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:50,360 Speaker 1: building blocks. And so it's a immutable, censorship resistant, decentralized ledger, 706 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 1: and like what can we do with that? It's like 707 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 1: a new set of building blocks, right, And so obviously 708 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,319 Speaker 1: the first killer application is money, and Sotoshi in the 709 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: white paper call all that a peer to peer cash network. 710 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 1: But we're starting to see this new building block being 711 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: used for other things that maybe we weren't thinking about. 712 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,600 Speaker 1: So Jack Dorsey launched this um um you know, he's 713 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 1: calling it Web five, which is the decentralized identifiers where 714 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 1: I can control my ID and that needs to be 715 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: in a censorship resistant location so no one could take 716 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 1: it offline, and so they're using the Bitcoin time chain 717 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,719 Speaker 1: for that. It would be like an example, yeah, and 718 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 1: then and then now we have like these ordinals that 719 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 1: just popped up, and so that's what I kind of 720 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:34,399 Speaker 1: want to talk about. Now we have these ordinals now 721 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,360 Speaker 1: right now people are stuffing you know, NFTs and JPEGs 722 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,880 Speaker 1: in that, and we'll talk get your opinion on that. 723 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 1: But there's other use cases for that that we could use, 724 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:48,279 Speaker 1: like for example, putting um, you know, uh, three D 725 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,880 Speaker 1: gun schematics in there that could be censorship resistant and 726 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,319 Speaker 1: we could transfer that across space right potentially. So I'm 727 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,120 Speaker 1: curious what your thoughts are about this this new building 728 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 1: block and could it be used for more than money, 729 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 1: like the IDs or ordinals. You know, what's your viewpoint 730 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 1: on that? Percent agree with you in terms of the 731 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: framing of another technological advancement. I'm sure you know this. 732 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan of the book The Sovereign Individual. 733 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:18,719 Speaker 1: The way that they frame this is that there's certain 734 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 1: technology that changes the logic of violence, and because of that, 735 00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 1: that changes how control is able to be enforced. And 736 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:32,400 Speaker 1: one of the key kind of just immediate benefits of 737 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:37,759 Speaker 1: bitcoin is that it turns money into information, which reduces 738 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,080 Speaker 1: the custody costs to zero and the carrying costs and 739 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,239 Speaker 1: transportation costs to zero. And because of that, now an 740 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:48,400 Speaker 1: individual has the ability to secure their wealth independently, and 741 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 1: that changes the logical violence. But beyond that, just talking 742 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 1: about what does the technology bring other than you know, 743 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,839 Speaker 1: enabling human freedom and our ability to free, you know 744 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,840 Speaker 1: more freely move around the plan and make governments compete, 745 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:07,080 Speaker 1: is you know, it creates a new, uh like a 746 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,440 Speaker 1: new layer of trust in a new layer of security 747 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,839 Speaker 1: that we can all reference. So I think that this 748 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,959 Speaker 1: is really important because when it comes to some form 749 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,319 Speaker 1: of file sharing, when it comes to some form of 750 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,920 Speaker 1: expressing yourself, there's going to be censorship, there's going to 751 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,880 Speaker 1: be people that are going to try to get in 752 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,040 Speaker 1: the way. But the reality is with bitcoin, if you 753 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,440 Speaker 1: can if it's worth the cost to transact on the 754 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,040 Speaker 1: blockchain itself. There is no one who can get in 755 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:40,160 Speaker 1: your way from making that data available, putting your signature 756 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,000 Speaker 1: on the blockchain. Whatever it is, whether it's an NFT, 757 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,279 Speaker 1: whether it's three D gun schematics, whether it's saying that 758 00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,239 Speaker 1: this isn't this video is not a deep fake, this 759 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:52,359 Speaker 1: is actually me. So I think what bitcoin is is 760 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,799 Speaker 1: the time chain, the blockchain, the distributed physical network of 761 00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:01,040 Speaker 1: computing hardware that is enforcing this network. It creates a 762 00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 1: beacon of truth in a world of you know, effectively 763 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,719 Speaker 1: endless AI generated lies that humans just have a very 764 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:15,960 Speaker 1: difficult time making making you know, making making ends of it, right, 765 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,879 Speaker 1: like trying to you know, evaluate what's happening. So with 766 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:23,120 Speaker 1: this barrage of this dedas of kind of fake information 767 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,120 Speaker 1: and psy ops and all that stuff, Really, what the 768 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:30,800 Speaker 1: time chain is is a beacon of truth that's economically 769 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:35,840 Speaker 1: incentivized to only showed truth rather than you know, the 770 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:41,160 Speaker 1: you know, effectively what can be just autogenerated using computing hardware. 771 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:45,680 Speaker 1: Elsewhere do you think you started out by saying the 772 00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:49,880 Speaker 1: ability to store and transact wealth, and so then like 773 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:53,120 Speaker 1: what is wealth? Right, I think of wealth as my assets, 774 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,640 Speaker 1: and so my assets could be everything from this collectible 775 00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:58,400 Speaker 1: baseball card I got when I was a kid, to 776 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 1: my goal to my realist stay, to my bitcoin to 777 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:03,960 Speaker 1: my cat, Like those are my assets. That's like my wealth, 778 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,239 Speaker 1: and so like maybe the way that we think of 779 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:14,440 Speaker 1: money or wealth or value changes over time, and so, um, 780 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,040 Speaker 1: my ip could certainly be my wealth. Right, that's my 781 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,440 Speaker 1: my property, my private property that's worth money, that's value 782 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,520 Speaker 1: to me. So I guess maybe do you think that 783 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:25,640 Speaker 1: we kind of continue to expand the way that we 784 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,760 Speaker 1: think of that, and so then that wealth, that value 785 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,239 Speaker 1: can then be in this time change and can be 786 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:38,120 Speaker 1: transacted I mean, or is that stretching too much? This 787 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,920 Speaker 1: is a pretty like big philosophical conversation, and the reality 788 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,120 Speaker 1: is that very few of us are intelligent enough to 789 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:52,120 Speaker 1: like forecast into the future. Yeah accurately, you know, Like 790 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,120 Speaker 1: the way I like to frame how stupid all of 791 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:58,520 Speaker 1: us are at forecasting is pre electricity. There's probably only 792 00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,680 Speaker 1: one person on record that was actually like even directly 793 00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,439 Speaker 1: correct on like what was going to do the world. 794 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:08,200 Speaker 1: That was Nicola Tesla. So um, you know, no, very 795 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,359 Speaker 1: very few people, right, Like bitcoin is equivalent in terms 796 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,799 Speaker 1: of the technological innovation that next love. You know that 797 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:20,400 Speaker 1: that technological revolution, you know, it's it's a technical, logical evolution, 798 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,839 Speaker 1: just like electricity. So it's very difficult for us, you know, 799 00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,400 Speaker 1: plebeians living here in the Dark Ages, to forecast like 800 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,200 Speaker 1: what that future looks like. My mental model though, is 801 00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,920 Speaker 1: that value gets standardized to bitcoin. So I really do 802 00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:38,200 Speaker 1: think like collectibles, real estate, all these other ways to 803 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,799 Speaker 1: store value while we're living in kind of like this 804 00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,160 Speaker 1: the Dark Ages of value storage, it's going to get 805 00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,799 Speaker 1: standardized to bitcoin, and that's going to change how resources 806 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,719 Speaker 1: are allocated across the globe. That's going to change how 807 00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,560 Speaker 1: we manage our time. That's going to change how we 808 00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:58,160 Speaker 1: make every single decision, make decision we make, because uh, 809 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,880 Speaker 1: you know, our mental operating system for wealth and value 810 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,239 Speaker 1: is going to change and I think become a lot 811 00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,440 Speaker 1: more efficient. Yeah, yeah, to your point, I agree. I mean, 812 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:08,279 Speaker 1: humans are no good to imagine in the future. All 813 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,400 Speaker 1: we can do is imagine better versions of what we 814 00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,280 Speaker 1: have today. And because we don't have those other building 815 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,320 Speaker 1: blocks to build those new things, we can't imagine that. 816 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,560 Speaker 1: Going back to just the question of the ordinals, because 817 00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,799 Speaker 1: that seems to be the big topic right now. Do 818 00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,799 Speaker 1: you think this is like wait in the sea, let 819 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,239 Speaker 1: the free markets figure it out, or do you look 820 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,440 Speaker 1: at this as like this is a massive problem spam attack, 821 00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,480 Speaker 1: and we should probably try and do something about it. 822 00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:37,280 Speaker 1: I think it's a wait and see and if anything, 823 00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:42,560 Speaker 1: I'm pretty convinced that that everything that happens within the 824 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,480 Speaker 1: Bitcoin consensus rules aren't good for bitcoin. You know, I 825 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:49,279 Speaker 1: think a lot of people maybe think otherwise. But what 826 00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:53,799 Speaker 1: happened with ordinals is someone without changing the code whatsoever, 827 00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,160 Speaker 1: this guy named Casey Rhodemore came up with one a 828 00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:59,879 Speaker 1: way to index and look at the bitcoin block chain, 829 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:04,959 Speaker 1: and then two came up with a way to put 830 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,920 Speaker 1: data into the witness data element of bitcoin. So that's 831 00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,279 Speaker 1: turned that That's created a lot of debate within the 832 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:16,279 Speaker 1: technical community. That's created a lot of excitement within the 833 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,440 Speaker 1: greater crypto community, people who are NFT fans, because the 834 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,840 Speaker 1: easiest thing you can do with that new structure is 835 00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:26,040 Speaker 1: put an NFT on the blockchain, which actually, these NFTs, 836 00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:28,360 Speaker 1: these inscriptions on the bitcoin blockchain have a lot of 837 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:32,400 Speaker 1: properties that make them better than other, you know, forms 838 00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:37,839 Speaker 1: of NFTs on other blockchains. But ultimately my heuristic here 839 00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:44,120 Speaker 1: is Bitcoin is permissionless, Bitcoin's censorship resistant, and Bitcoin's economic 840 00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:50,920 Speaker 1: incentives work. So this is a permissionless innovation. People are 841 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:52,960 Speaker 1: using it in a way that maybe someone wants to 842 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,520 Speaker 1: sensor them, but you know, they they want to do it, 843 00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:59,920 Speaker 1: and it's allowing it, and it is affecting Bitcoin's incentive 844 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,359 Speaker 1: in a positive way. Fees are going up, more people 845 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,759 Speaker 1: are are downloading full copies of the time chain, They're 846 00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,600 Speaker 1: running full nodes on their computers in order to actually 847 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,759 Speaker 1: leverage this new system. And then on top of that, 848 00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,360 Speaker 1: people are starting to do things that I actually do 849 00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:20,720 Speaker 1: think are super interesting with this technology. So it started 850 00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:23,399 Speaker 1: off with JPEGs, It started off with all this kind 851 00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,320 Speaker 1: of like clownery, but that's how the Internet started as well, 852 00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:29,879 Speaker 1: and I think it's very quickly moving into a very 853 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,239 Speaker 1: serious woe. So as long as Bitcoin's incentives work, as 854 00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:38,520 Speaker 1: long as Bitcoin remains permission list in censorship resistant, I'm bullish. 855 00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,480 Speaker 1: So this fits within my mental model for bitcoin one 856 00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:45,399 Speaker 1: hundred percent. Yeah great, Yeah, I was at first going, dang, 857 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,480 Speaker 1: I guess this is why we shouldn't be messing with it, 858 00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,440 Speaker 1: why they have to activate tap root, which you know 859 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,399 Speaker 1: we should still consider moving forward, like do we want 860 00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,160 Speaker 1: to keep changing? It's because of the lava and intomic consequences, 861 00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,480 Speaker 1: And that's a great I think that's a great discussion, right. 862 00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,040 Speaker 1: I think bitcoiners are learning about bitcoin in real time, 863 00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:07,920 Speaker 1: so maybe we will be much much more adversarial thinking 864 00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:12,759 Speaker 1: before putting in a change. But with that being said, 865 00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,040 Speaker 1: all of us here sitting here thinking about what bitcoin 866 00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:18,920 Speaker 1: can do today, we have no idea what bitcoin can 867 00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:21,879 Speaker 1: do tomorrow. And Mark, I'm convinced of this. The best 868 00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,000 Speaker 1: bitcoin developers have yet to be born yet, and the 869 00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:28,200 Speaker 1: best Bitcoin innovations in UK use cases have yet to 870 00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,799 Speaker 1: be invented yet. So who are we to say what 871 00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:34,879 Speaker 1: bitcoin can or cannot do? And that kind of goes 872 00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:36,960 Speaker 1: back to the steel steel. Oh we can, we're going 873 00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,160 Speaker 1: to design new bridges and whatever, But we didn't know 874 00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,320 Speaker 1: that someone's going to design a spaceship or space shuttle 875 00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:43,640 Speaker 1: at some point, right, so yeah, totally. Hey, you know 876 00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:46,280 Speaker 1: what if someone said, hey, steel was never intended for flight, 877 00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:49,920 Speaker 1: screw space travel, right, like I forbid it? Like no, 878 00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:53,520 Speaker 1: absolutely not, we don't know, we don't know, so therefore 879 00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,359 Speaker 1: he just got it like bitcoin requires a little bit 880 00:49:56,360 --> 00:50:00,439 Speaker 1: of faith. It requires the faith that the systems incentive work, 881 00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:03,600 Speaker 1: and if you look back historically, they have always worked. 882 00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:09,040 Speaker 1: So i'm i'm I feel pretty steadfast that bitcoins incentives 883 00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,680 Speaker 1: will continue to work. And I personally think bitcoin's binary. 884 00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,319 Speaker 1: Either the incentives work or they don't. If they don't, 885 00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,600 Speaker 1: I hope you have your guns and bullion. If they do, 886 00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,640 Speaker 1: it's taking over the world. Yeah. Nice, I think that's 887 00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,120 Speaker 1: a perfect point place to end it. We're gonna end 888 00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:26,880 Speaker 1: it right there. C K from Bitcoin Magazine. You can 889 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,640 Speaker 1: find them on Twitter at CK Underscore Snarks will link 890 00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:32,560 Speaker 1: to it in the show notes down below. General manager 891 00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:35,920 Speaker 1: at Bitcoin Magazine, which of course is doing the largest 892 00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,680 Speaker 1: bitcoin conference in the world May eighteenth through twentieth in 893 00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,040 Speaker 1: Miami Beach. I'm going to be there. CK is going 894 00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:43,480 Speaker 1: to be there, and we hope that you'll be there 895 00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:46,160 Speaker 1: as well. So check that out. B dot tc is 896 00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:48,239 Speaker 1: the website. Anything else you want to throw out, CK, 897 00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:51,360 Speaker 1: come to the Bitcoin Conference. It's going to be amazing. 898 00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,319 Speaker 1: Can't wait to see you there. Mark, give you, give 899 00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,400 Speaker 1: you a hug, chat on the news desk, and go 900 00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:00,160 Speaker 1: buy the new Bitcoin Magazine. It's the broke issue we 901 00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:03,480 Speaker 1: have Sam Bankman for aud on the cover and we're 902 00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:07,960 Speaker 1: calling out the media. So we were building bitcoin culture 903 00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,360 Speaker 1: and that's what we do. A bitcoin magazine when with 904 00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,520 Speaker 1: the Bitcoin conference and you can be a part of it. 905 00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:16,280 Speaker 1: Where can they buy the magazine. It's stored on bitcoin 906 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,680 Speaker 1: magazine dot com. Okay, on the website. Got it? Yep? 907 00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:20,960 Speaker 1: All right, we now we're going to sign it up. 908 00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,400 Speaker 1: Thanks so much, so kay, thank you so much. Mark Piece,