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Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance podcast. Today,

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Speaker 1: I have a special guest. We're in an Airbnb in

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Speaker 1: the middle of beautiful Montana. This person is known for

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Speaker 1: a lot of things. Of course, he's known for his

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Speaker 1: elk calling prowess. But I can guarantee you he is

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Speaker 1: the only person in history to kill a bull elk

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Speaker 1: wearing a hell Cogan costume. This was in twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: so you have to go. You'll have to scroll back

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Speaker 1: a few years through all the videos and find this video.

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Speaker 1: But I have none other than the amazing Jason Glenn Phelps,

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Speaker 1: as you Instagrammers might know, I know. Welcome, Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the show.

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Speaker 2: Jason, Thanks for the intro. I really appreciate being here.

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Speaker 2: I think you should have that approved for you laid

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Speaker 2: it out there.

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Speaker 1: No, I like to make you uncomfortable, I know.

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Speaker 3: And I needed to edit that out. That's the That

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Speaker 3: was good. That was good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and uh and hey, let's just kind of

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Speaker 1: a side note. This is off topic today, but Jason

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Speaker 1: has an Instagram account. You may not know this if

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Speaker 1: you fell follow the Phelps Game Calls Instagram page. Jason,

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Speaker 1: in the last few months has started his own Instagram page.

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Speaker 1: He puts a lot of half navid naked selfies on there.

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Speaker 1: He shows progress from like working out, like dieting and

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Speaker 1: bikini shots. No, just kidding, no, but I have way

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Speaker 1: more followers than Jason, and I'd like to keep it

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Speaker 1: that way.

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Speaker 3: So what you're saying is, do not follow, do not

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Speaker 3: follow me.

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Speaker 1: Do not follow Jason. So it's Jason Glenn Phelps. Look

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Speaker 1: it up on Instagram. We got to get him some followers.

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Speaker 1: And while you follow him, give me a follow to.

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Speaker 1: It's the Bugler, Dirk Durham, the Bugler, just the Bugler.

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Speaker 1: One word. Give me a follow if you like our content,

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Speaker 1: and give Jason a follow too. He's in a bad way.

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Speaker 1: He needs that traction.

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Speaker 2: You know what my full name, Jason gel Like, that's

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Speaker 2: what my mom would yell at me as I was

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Speaker 2: getting like chased around the house of the Woodspoon. That's

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Speaker 2: what that's the memory my full name brings back.

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Speaker 1: That's great. Yeah, well, I think I've yelled at a

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Speaker 1: couple of times. We've been deer running when you really

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Speaker 1: need to get there's an oulk over here, there's a

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Speaker 1: deer over here. I think I yelled at you today

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Speaker 1: but anyway, today, and I'm gonna have to apologize to

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Speaker 1: our listeners. I gave you the guys the super secret

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Speaker 1: number to call in to ask a question so we

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Speaker 1: can answer it online. Here are on the podcast. And

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Speaker 1: the problem, here's the biggest problem. So when I did that,

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Speaker 1: I recorded a whole bunch of podcasts because I've been

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Speaker 1: gone for the whole month of September, the month of October,

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Speaker 1: and here we November. I'm still hunting and Jason he's

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Speaker 1: been doing a lot of the same, so a lot

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Speaker 1: of the podcast episodes you've been enjoying haven't been real time.

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Speaker 1: So I was unable to get your question answered online

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Speaker 1: in a timely fashion, which kind of sucks because there's

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Speaker 1: some folks that had some hunting intended for this fall.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's still relevant for the show. And

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Speaker 1: I think you know we're not leading into ELK season.

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Speaker 1: I mean, ELK season September is kind of a distant memory,

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Speaker 1: and we want to kind of kind of touch base, refresh,

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Speaker 1: think about those kind of things because Phelps and I've

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Speaker 1: been talking about twenty twenty four already. We're making plans

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Speaker 1: for ELK season, and we want to make sure that

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Speaker 1: we have everything dialed in, and so I think this

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Speaker 1: is a great time to kind of answer some of

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Speaker 1: those questions. That way, for folks who are planning ahead

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Speaker 1: for next year, they can kind of think about it,

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Speaker 1: listen to what we say, digest it, agree, disagree, to

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Speaker 1: formulate their own system, and kind of move forward. For elks,

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Speaker 1: he's in twenty twenty four. So anyway, Phelps, do you

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Speaker 1: have anything to say before we get started on this?

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Speaker 3: Oh, I'm like ready to start answering questions.

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Speaker 1: I know Jason always says this on his podcast when

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Speaker 1: he's when he's the host, he always says, hey, guys,

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Speaker 1: if you have any questions, email us at CTD at

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Speaker 1: why what.

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Speaker 2: CTD at Phelpsgame Calls dot Com? Right, But you were

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Speaker 2: just trying to talk in my voice, and I felt

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Speaker 2: like you had to make me sound like a nerd.

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Speaker 1: What no, I was?

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Speaker 2: I don't know, Like when he always says, when you

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Speaker 2: talked in a funny voice, that made me sound like

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Speaker 2: a nerd.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm I like to mimic people.

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Speaker 2: We have an email set up at CTD cutting the

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Speaker 2: Distance CTD at Phelpsgamecalls dot com. Yeah, send this message

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Speaker 2: or emails there or messages on social and we'll do

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Speaker 2: our best to kind of grab those all those questions

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Speaker 2: and kind of compile them and try to have our

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Speaker 2: guests answer them.

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Speaker 1: Right, and if you want me to answer them, don't

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Speaker 1: send them to that because I never s those questions

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Speaker 1: every down. Then he's like, He's like, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what to tell these people, Dirk, can you tell them? No?

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Speaker 3: Just kidding.

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Speaker 2: They're like, Jason, I don't want you to answer. I

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Speaker 2: want Dirk to answer, and so they gotta pass one

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Speaker 2: to him.

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Speaker 1: All right, So question number one, I'm gonna turn this

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Speaker 1: up and uh, let's see if we can get this answered.

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Speaker 4: Hey, Dirk, my name is Garrett Harmon. I'm calling from Beufort,

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Speaker 4: South Carolina. My question is is how you would go

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Speaker 4: about hunting a once in a lifetime tag. I Drew

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Speaker 4: want to arguably the best second season archery ELK tags

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Speaker 4: in New Mexico this year, and I was wondering, I'm

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Speaker 4: feeling a lot of pressure and putting a lot of

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Speaker 4: pressure on myself, and I'm just wondering how you go

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Speaker 4: about tack lining the tag like this. Any advice would

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Speaker 4: be great. Thank you for everything you do.

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Speaker 1: But well, first off, I want to apologize because we

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Speaker 1: should have answered this in real time because he's got

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Speaker 1: a tag of a lifetime in New Mexico. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: but we do have some advice. I'm like, Jason, go first.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so we struggle.

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Speaker 2: We've got some good tags, right, and it's one of

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Speaker 2: it's a blessing and a curse. It's it's awesome that

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Speaker 2: you got the opportunity. But just like you, I feel

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Speaker 2: extreme pressure when I draw these tags, whether it's a

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Speaker 2: great archery tag, great rifle tag, and one thing I

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Speaker 2: have to like, it's very important for me leading into

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Speaker 2: the hunt is just to remember that I love to

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Speaker 2: hunt and why I'm out there hunting. It's it's It

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Speaker 2: might seem a little cliche to go back and kind

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Speaker 2: of boil it down to that, but when you got

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Speaker 2: good tags, there's I think everybody feels a little more pressure.

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Speaker 3: You have to perform.

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Speaker 2: It's your it may be your opportunity for that you know,

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Speaker 2: trophy of a lifetime or the animal that you're after,

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Speaker 2: or maybe you know somebody hasn't experienced success and they're

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Speaker 2: looking at this once in a lifetime tag is just

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Speaker 2: their first stepping stone you know in successes. So so

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Speaker 2: first of all, like I feel it's important to go

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Speaker 2: back and boil it down to why you're out there

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Speaker 2: and kind of from that point, remember that you're out

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Speaker 2: there to have fun, Like this isn't once in a

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Speaker 2: lifetime potentially or or one of those like upper upper

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Speaker 2: tiered hunts, and you just need to remember to have

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Speaker 2: a lot of fun, you know, going into that. Now,

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Speaker 2: that's that's more of a mindset. Now there are things

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Speaker 2: you can do on the technical, tactical, physical, mental side, right.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I go into my uh my better

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Speaker 2: tags a little more focused, a little more like ready,

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Speaker 2: whether I've trained a little bit harder. It gives me motivation.

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Speaker 2: You know, I kind of always hate motivation when it

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Speaker 2: because it is triggered by things. You know, if you're

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Speaker 2: disciplined enough, you'll But but I go into those things

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Speaker 2: a little better shape, you know. I've I've did a

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Speaker 2: little more e scouting going into those I've called the biologists,

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Speaker 2: a little bit more of the normal life, talked to

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Speaker 2: outfitters in the area. But it really hopefully when he

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Speaker 2: runs into a tag like this, you've had the ability

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Speaker 2: to have some honey under your belt. And I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna go a little bit astray. This is why

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Speaker 2: I'm a big, you know, proponent of getting a lot

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Speaker 2: of experience, right go out there and enjoy spike tags.

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Speaker 2: Go out there and enjoy these other tags. Get experience

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Speaker 2: calling Elkin, whatever it may be, so that when this

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Speaker 2: once in a lifetime opportunity finally comes, it's not your

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Speaker 2: first experience with a bull at twenty yards thirty yards.

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Speaker 3: You need to be.

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Speaker 2: Prepared, which is not a great answer because you've already

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Speaker 2: drawn the tag and your chance to figure that out

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Speaker 2: may not be there. But for everybody else before you

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Speaker 2: draw this once in lifetime, take get out there experience,

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Speaker 2: you know, calling an elk, experience, you know, having elk

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Speaker 2: at at very close range. Experience those emotions, you know,

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Speaker 2: those mental breakdowns, whatever may come, and figure out how

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Speaker 2: to push through that, figure out the mechanisms you need

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Speaker 2: to have to push through that, and then you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of get through it. But there's not aside from

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Speaker 2: maybe being a little more prepared, I still put more

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Speaker 2: stress on myself on these tags. You just you just

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Speaker 2: need to go out and enjoy it and hopefully that

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Speaker 2: experience kind of kind of plays itself out because you

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Speaker 2: do have a good tag, and don't don't put too

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Speaker 2: much pressure on yourself because it will take the fun

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Speaker 2: out of the hunt.

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Speaker 3: I've been on both sides, and that's the best advice

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Speaker 3: I can give. Man.

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Speaker 1: I really love that. A really good friend of mine

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Speaker 1: here drew probably arguably the best Elk tag in Idaho

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two. And he's he's my age. He's

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Speaker 1: he's forty eight years old while I'm forty nine.

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Speaker 3: He's so really old.

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Speaker 1: Ancient, so he's a little bit younger than me. But

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Speaker 1: we talked about it and he said, you know, he's like,

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad that I drew this tag in my

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Speaker 1: late forties. He's like, because if I had drew drawn

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Speaker 1: that in my twenties and my thirties, He's like, I

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Speaker 1: would have worked. I would have. I would have hunted

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Speaker 1: like it was a job, Like I would have I

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Speaker 1: will probably would have. It wouldn't have been fun, and

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Speaker 1: I would have put way too much stress on my

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Speaker 1: And he's like, honestly, I'm my only goal for this tag.

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Speaker 1: He's like, I don't have a goal of inches. I

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Speaker 1: have a goal of having the hunt of a lifetime,

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Speaker 1: just the best time, enjoy savor every moment, the ups,

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Speaker 1: the downs, all of it. I just want to enjoy

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Speaker 1: that hunt and remember the rest of my life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and that's yeah. You know in the question

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Speaker 2: he talks about like the stress, and it's just if

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Speaker 2: you boil it down, like that's not that shouldn't be

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Speaker 2: part of the hunt. Like stress and not to I'm

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Speaker 2: not a psychologist or anything, but like stress from what

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Speaker 2: like we this is like self imposed reasons, right, Like

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Speaker 2: are you are we concerned that people are I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: throw myself in here because I'm in the same boat,

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Speaker 2: Like are we concerned people are gonna judge us that

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Speaker 2: we weren't successful with the great tag? Like the heck

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Speaker 2: with all of that, Like just go have fun hunt,

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Speaker 2: make it a hunt of a lifetime, like you just said,

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Speaker 2: and like put all the other stuff aside. Just just

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Speaker 2: go enjoy the experience, enjoy being in a great unit,

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Speaker 2: which typically being in a great unit, you're gonna hear bugles,

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Speaker 2: you're gonna have more action. It's like take all that

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Speaker 2: in and and throw away the extra stress. And because

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Speaker 2: it comes from a bad place anyways, I feel like

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Speaker 2: it's it's you wanting to you know, find success, or

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Speaker 2: you not wanting to maybe let people down to know

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Speaker 2: you have the tag. Whatever it may be. Like, all

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Speaker 2: that is just you know, it's not worth it. Just

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Speaker 2: go have fun, enjoy it, and you're gonna have a

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Speaker 2: better experience and you know, probably have better success by

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Speaker 2: by going into it with that mindset.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely. And one the my my thoughts on the subject

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Speaker 1: to kind of a little different note is I feel

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Speaker 1: like sometimes people here, I mean I think I found

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Speaker 1: myself guilty this before, like oh they drew this tag, Well,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be easy. It's it's it's not gonna be

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Speaker 1: as hard as public land hunting. I think sometimes these

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Speaker 1: draw tags, especially really good ones, are they're harder. They're

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Speaker 1: like harder than a normal over the counter public land

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Speaker 1: hunt these because I mean, there's there's definitely gonna be

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Speaker 1: a more target rich environment, there's gonna be a lot

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Speaker 1: way more game, there's gonna be more way more animals

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Speaker 1: to play with. But you can't like like let your

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Speaker 1: guard down and think, oh, well I don't have to

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Speaker 1: try as hard. I can just show up and kind

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Speaker 1: of half asset and get an ELK. I feel like

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Speaker 1: you have to show up and work just as hard

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Speaker 1: as you would on a normal over the countertag, if

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Speaker 1: not harder, and just maximize that time. So this this

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Speaker 1: is back, like, don't stress yourself out with this, but

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Speaker 1: you have to. Like, you know what, We're not gonna

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Speaker 1: sleep in. We're not gonna spend the milk. We're not

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Speaker 1: gonna spend our mid days in camp eating rabbis. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna work really hard. We're gonna get up

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Speaker 1: at three am if that's what we need to do.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna work. We're gonna hunt all day from dark

253
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Speaker 1: to dark, and we're gonna leave nothing on the table.

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Speaker 1: That way, when we when we're done, whether we're whether

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Speaker 1: we take an elk or deer, whatever it is you're after,

256
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Speaker 1: wherever you take. At the end, you can say I

257
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Speaker 1: left nothing on the table.

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Speaker 3: Yep.

259
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Speaker 1: I gave everything I had for that time I had

260
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Speaker 1: was having and it was the haunt of a lifetime.

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Speaker 3: Yep.

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Speaker 1: Great question number two.

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Speaker 2: Hello, my name is Pattie Zobot.

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Speaker 6: I'm a new archery hunter and I have not spent

265
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Speaker 6: a lot of time.

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Speaker 7: Getting set up for a shot of forty yards or less.

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Speaker 7: When you are looking for a spot?

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Speaker 6: What are you looking for in the brush?

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Speaker 7: Or sorry? Was how do you determine what a good

270
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Speaker 7: location is and what is your strategy for.

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Speaker 2: Getting set up for the best shot you can Once

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Speaker 2: you located in an alp and that.

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Speaker 7: Elk is coming in on you, thanks so much?

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Speaker 1: Fine?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So she doesn't have a lot of experience setting

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Speaker 2: up or animals being inside of forty yards? And how

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Speaker 2: do we determine where we're going to set up if

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Speaker 2: that bull's coming in or the bowl to come in?

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Speaker 3: Did I get that right?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I think so.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So there there's there's I'm gonna answer this in

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Speaker 2: a couple of different ways. There's what you're given on

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Speaker 2: the ground. A lot of times we find ourselves in

285
00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,080
Speaker 2: less than ideal setup. So you just can't make an

286
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Speaker 2: ideal set up on the ground. You know, you may

287
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Speaker 2: be in a brush hole, you may be in a

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Speaker 2: wide open timber stand where there is no terrain break,

289
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,040
Speaker 2: no vegetation break, and you're just kind of forced to

290
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Speaker 2: set up where you need to set up, whether it's

291
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Speaker 2: you know, get the wind right, try to be you know,

292
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Speaker 2: for me personally, like on on the level or slightly

293
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Speaker 2: downhill from the bowl if I can. Those things all

294
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Speaker 2: kind of are just rules of thumb. But I say

295
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Speaker 2: this because it's easy to say it while you're talking.

296
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Speaker 2: But the real situation out the in the in the

297
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Speaker 2: woods is you set up where you can, where you know,

298
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Speaker 2: when you can, where you can. You've got time running

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Speaker 2: against you. You've got a bowl coming in or potentially

300
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Speaker 2: coming in, or sometimes you may have time to set

301
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Speaker 2: up with a little bit better set up. You've got

302
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Speaker 2: to make the best. You know, there was times this

303
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Speaker 2: year where I set it where I'm like, well, it's

304
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Speaker 2: not ideal, but I have a twenty yard window here.

305
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Speaker 2: You know, It's like that's all that's gonna work. But

306
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Speaker 2: I had I couldn't foresee anything better. I couldn't move forward.

307
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Speaker 2: And so you've got to make the best of it,

308
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Speaker 2: you know, best, the best with what you're given now

309
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Speaker 2: an ideal setup, if you have the ability. Anybody that's

310
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Speaker 2: hunted Archerie, hunted Elk long enough has dealt with hang ups.

311
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Speaker 2: I think dirt can attest to this. I can like

312
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,440
Speaker 2: every year you're going to have bulls hang up no

313
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Speaker 2: matter how well you pick your setup. But you want

314
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Speaker 2: to try to prevent that if you can. And in

315
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Speaker 2: my opinion, I could be wrong, but what I've seen

316
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Speaker 2: from my you know, experience of elk doing this or

317
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Speaker 2: not doing this, is when an elk gets to a

318
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Speaker 2: spot where they can see visually, see, not hear anymore,

319
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Speaker 2: not smell, none of that. I think it's their sense

320
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Speaker 2: of sight when they get to a point where they

321
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,520
Speaker 2: should be able to see the elk that's calling to them,

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Speaker 2: being us with the call in our mouth however we're

323
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Speaker 2: doing it, or the collar behind us, they expect to

324
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Speaker 2: be able to see that elk there. Now a little

325
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:02,920
Speaker 2: more nervous, they're a little more on edge, like, hey,

326
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Speaker 2: I've put in the work to get to this point,

327
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Speaker 2: like and a lot of times they'll get to this

328
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Speaker 2: hang up spot and they will call or they'll do something,

329
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Speaker 2: you know, whether they posture, whether they call, whether they

330
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Speaker 2: they expect the caller to do the rest of the work. Now,

331
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Speaker 2: if this is, if this is truly a visual thing,

332
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:23,880
Speaker 2: we need to set up either on a terrain break,

333
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Speaker 2: meaning that the terrain goes from flat to steep, steep

334
00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,520
Speaker 2: to flat side hill, a finger ridge, you know, something

335
00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,040
Speaker 2: that will block the visibility of you and that bowl

336
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,520
Speaker 2: but when they do get to the point where where

337
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,240
Speaker 2: they can visually see that that that elk calling to them,

338
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,000
Speaker 2: whether you're bugling a bowl elk or whether you're a

339
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:40,960
Speaker 2: cow calling, you know that cow elk that should be

340
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,840
Speaker 2: in this location, you need to be able to shoot.

341
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,520
Speaker 2: And with that said, I like to be within forty

342
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,040
Speaker 2: yards like you you mentioned in the question to that

343
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,040
Speaker 2: terrain break or vegetation break. You know, a lot of

344
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,160
Speaker 2: times if there's clean timber that gets to a brush,

345
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:55,920
Speaker 2: they will need to break through that brush. If they're

346
00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,000
Speaker 2: in brush and they're breaking out into clean timber where

347
00:16:58,000 --> 00:16:59,440
Speaker 2: you're at, they will get to that edge of the

348
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,120
Speaker 2: brush or some them we're in there where there they've

349
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,840
Speaker 2: got good sight. And this is one of the reasons

350
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:05,640
Speaker 2: I don't get to hunt with a lot of two

351
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,119
Speaker 2: person calling setups. But this is where having a caller

352
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,120
Speaker 2: potentially thirty you know, I don't like to be too

353
00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,240
Speaker 2: far back, but twenty or thirty yards back, because now

354
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:16,720
Speaker 2: the perceived elk that they should be able to see

355
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,520
Speaker 2: is now twenty or thirty yards behind you. If you

356
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,760
Speaker 2: do this right, or you put them in a location

357
00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,600
Speaker 2: where there's another visual break, and that elk can't see them,

358
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,080
Speaker 2: but you're now thirty yards ahead of them. It will

359
00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,359
Speaker 2: potentially pull that bowl past the hang up spot for

360
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,280
Speaker 2: you is the shooter and bring them in for an

361
00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,439
Speaker 2: archery shot. So when I set up i'm looking, I

362
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,879
Speaker 2: like to look at it as basically a ninety degree

363
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,000
Speaker 2: window where the bull's coming in or something like that.

364
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:41,680
Speaker 2: Like I want, you know, if I look forty five

365
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:43,440
Speaker 2: degrees to my left, forty five degrees a my right,

366
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:48,119
Speaker 2: ideally I have multiple shooting lanes from zero to forty

367
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,200
Speaker 2: or fifty sixty yards right. So if that bull crosses

368
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,800
Speaker 2: to my left trying to get wind, I've got a

369
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,959
Speaker 2: shooting lane here. You know, if he crosses, you know

370
00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,119
Speaker 2: I'm point Nobody can see me pointing here, obviously, but

371
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,120
Speaker 2: you know, if they cross in these different values, I'd

372
00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,240
Speaker 2: like to have a couple of different whips. Excuse me,

373
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,320
Speaker 2: hit my mic there. I'd like to have a couple

374
00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,840
Speaker 2: of different shooting lanes where if that bowl, depending on

375
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:10,360
Speaker 2: where it comes in, I will get a shot from

376
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,000
Speaker 2: zero to sixty. Now, a lot of times, you know,

377
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,520
Speaker 2: it's a balance of you want some cover, but you

378
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,000
Speaker 2: want some shooting lanes. You want you want to have

379
00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:21,680
Speaker 2: enough opportunities in there. So uh yeah, I like to

380
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,920
Speaker 2: set up where I can hopefully prevent that bowl from

381
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,520
Speaker 2: hanging up. And then when I do set up, I

382
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,240
Speaker 2: like to have my shooting lanes. And I've talked about

383
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:32,919
Speaker 2: this a lot. Set yourself up in front of obstacles

384
00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,520
Speaker 2: and brush and material like let the let your camo

385
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:38,800
Speaker 2: or let your solids whatever. I'm not going to get

386
00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:40,800
Speaker 2: into argument what you need to have, but let your

387
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,520
Speaker 2: silhouette be broken up by brush or a tree something

388
00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:46,399
Speaker 2: behind you, and then you stand in front of it.

389
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,719
Speaker 2: That way, you're you're free to move in any direction.

390
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,320
Speaker 2: You know, if the bowl comes in a different direction,

391
00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:53,840
Speaker 2: you can move. And that's kind of my best advice

392
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,040
Speaker 2: for a setup. The hanging up, in my opinion, comes

393
00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,280
Speaker 2: from letting that bowl be able to see too far

394
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:00,639
Speaker 2: your location.

395
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great advice. I in fact, when I when

396
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,359
Speaker 1: I set up, I even kind of take it like

397
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,480
Speaker 1: one step further on my shooting lanes. I I don't

398
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,879
Speaker 1: like to have very many shooting lanes. I like to

399
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,399
Speaker 1: have just a couple, okay shooting lanes. I want to

400
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,200
Speaker 1: be able. I want that bull to have to come

401
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,200
Speaker 1: into like thirty forty yards, maybe preferably thirty yards before

402
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,560
Speaker 1: he could ever see where those calls are coming from. Right. So,

403
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,920
Speaker 1: and this is typically for a solo setup. Like Jason said,

404
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:33,640
Speaker 1: if I have a collar behind me, I want them

405
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:35,320
Speaker 1: to behind me, but I don't want them too far

406
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,720
Speaker 1: to where I can't see them. I want to keep

407
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,240
Speaker 1: eye contact. That way we can signal each other. It's like, oh,

408
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,480
Speaker 1: we need to move up or hey, collar, move back,

409
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,680
Speaker 1: or move up or down the hill, whatever, because sometimes

410
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,399
Speaker 1: as the caller, when you're back there, you don't know

411
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,879
Speaker 1: what's going on up up and up for the shooter.

412
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,520
Speaker 1: The shooter standing sometimes you can't hear those little nuanced

413
00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,840
Speaker 1: sounds as like well that bull's moving this way, it's

414
00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:01,920
Speaker 1: mo in that way. So if we can signal each other,

415
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,200
Speaker 1: we simply we tend to have a a better result

416
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:12,720
Speaker 1: in the end. But it all kind of depends too,

417
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,760
Speaker 1: you know, on your on your maximum effective yardage. You know,

418
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,600
Speaker 1: if you're really good out past sixty yards, and maybe

419
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,359
Speaker 1: you want to set up like that. But I feel

420
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,040
Speaker 1: like if anytime I set up to where it's a

421
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,000
Speaker 1: little further distance to where they can come in and

422
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:29,399
Speaker 1: eyeball me, sometimes they hang up and I may not

423
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:30,840
Speaker 1: get a shot, but if they have to come in

424
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,840
Speaker 1: really close and I don't, I like to. I like

425
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,880
Speaker 1: to shoot close. I like to be that thirty yards

426
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 1: or less, maybe forty if I'm pushing it, because like

427
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 1: personal for my maximum effective distance, I like to keep

428
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 1: it forty or less, just because I know that if

429
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,480
Speaker 1: I have that shot, I'll one hundred percent make it.

430
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,920
Speaker 1: But everyone's different. Now as far as as I'm traveling,

431
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 1: as I'm moving towards the bowl, and I'm doing a

432
00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,119
Speaker 1: few things, I'm looking at as every step of the way,

433
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:01,800
Speaker 1: as I'm going to the words that bowl, as i

434
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,280
Speaker 1: feel like I'm getting closer to that elk. Let's say

435
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,720
Speaker 1: I've I've traveled three hundred yards across the ravine or

436
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,200
Speaker 1: something to get close to this bowl. I've traveled quietly.

437
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,639
Speaker 1: I haven't been bugling, but most of the way I

438
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 1: don't make a lot of I don't pop, I pop,

439
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,439
Speaker 1: I pop as much brush as I want until I

440
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 1: get into that zone. It's like, I think that elk

441
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,720
Speaker 1: is probably gonna be a couple hundred yards away now,

442
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 1: maybe one hundred yards away. I'm gonna get really quiet

443
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,800
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be very calculated at point, and I'm

444
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 1: gonna and what I do is I look ahead to

445
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 1: where if if I could see an elk standing there

446
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,639
Speaker 1: and he could see me, what's that distance? Is that

447
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,359
Speaker 1: eighty yards? Is that sixty yards? Is at one hundred yards?

448
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 1: If it's if I only have visibility to thirty yards,

449
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,320
Speaker 1: I start thinking, Okay, I'm getting in a good place

450
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:51,639
Speaker 1: to maybe call this bowl into. But let's say I

451
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,679
Speaker 1: get over there and I can see one hundred yards

452
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:58,359
Speaker 1: through big open timber. I'm probably gonna pause for a

453
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,120
Speaker 1: minute and kind of reassess. I'm gonna number one. I'm

454
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:05,719
Speaker 1: not gonna want to start calling until I get to

455
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 1: a point where I think he's pretty close to here.

456
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 1: But I don't want to start making a bunch of

457
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,680
Speaker 1: calls right now to where he could, like all of

458
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 1: a sudden, appear one hundred yards away and look and

459
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,880
Speaker 1: see my location, because he's gonna be expecting to see

460
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:20,680
Speaker 1: an elk, and then he's gonna stop, and he's gonna

461
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 1: look a little bit, and then he's gonna leave. So

462
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna probably be a little calculated before I show

463
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 1: my hand, my cart, my hand of cards. Per se.

464
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:31,359
Speaker 1: If I get to that one hundred yards, Like, I

465
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 1: don't like this spot. I'm gonna but I think he's close.

466
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,239
Speaker 1: I'm gonna creep forward slowly, and I'm probably gonna use

467
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 1: my binoculars a little bit. I'm gonna have my eyes

468
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,399
Speaker 1: just fixated on picking apart every little bit of brush,

469
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 1: looking for movement, whether I see an antler time, whether

470
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 1: I see an ear moving, whether I whether I see

471
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,679
Speaker 1: a black nose or a black mane. I'm gonna be

472
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: looking for that bowl and then I'm gonna get through

473
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 1: that section. And usually you'll get a one hundred yards

474
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,360
Speaker 1: or so, and then the timber will grow a little denser.

475
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: Maybe you'll have some younger trees and it'll get a

476
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 1: little thicker, and it's like, Okay, now I'm starting to

477
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 1: get to a place where it's a little bit I

478
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,439
Speaker 1: can't see as far. Now I'm gonna start picking apart. Okay,

479
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,880
Speaker 1: I want to have a couple pretty good, pretty good

480
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 1: shooting lanes. You mentioned forty yards maximum forty yards. You know,

481
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, I shoot forty yards there or maybe

482
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 1: twenty yards, so maybe one pretty decent one and maybe

483
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 1: one so so one. And I found when I do

484
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:34,640
Speaker 1: this bulls come in a lot closer, and they don't

485
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 1: just stand out there and just look at me. All right.

486
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 5: Next question, Hey guys and Dan up here in North Ido,

487
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 5: I had a question for you being here up here

488
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 5: in Ido in a thick brush country. Often I have

489
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 5: rely heavily on our calling. Of course, since you it's

490
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:12,479
Speaker 5: hard to blast them and whatnot, But often I have

491
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:14,640
Speaker 5: a we'll have an interaction with the bowl calling back

492
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 5: and forth, and I know that they that bowl will

493
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 5: still be in the area. My question, I was wondering,

494
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 5: if you can confirm that that bowl or whatever is

495
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 5: still in the same area and you want to go

496
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 5: back and try them another day, do you go back

497
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 5: in there with different calls, different mouth calls, different bugle

498
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 5: tubes or do you think they have a memory for

499
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 5: that kind of stuff. It's just curious. Thanks for the show.

500
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 2: DOCU so bulls in their memory and calls. And then

501
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 2: I have a different opinion now than when I started.

502
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 2: I felt like, uh, if I if I was calling

503
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 2: to bowl and wasn't able to call them in, I

504
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 2: needed to switch my diaphragm up. I needed to go

505
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 2: from an external you know, a cow call or whatever

506
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 2: it may be, in my opinion, I not the elk

507
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 2: aren't smart animals, but I don't feel they've got the

508
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:23,479
Speaker 2: ability to associate like ELK calls with with the next elk. Now,

509
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 2: individual individual Now with not saying this only affects people

510
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 2: aren't good callers. But if you sound like a elk

511
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 2: or close enough to a real elk and they believe

512
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 2: that at that time, then you're probably okay. Now, if

513
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,959
Speaker 2: there are suspects sounds, I think elk could potentially and

514
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 2: you make the suspect sounds the first time in the

515
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 2: second time, like I'm not I'm not going to vouch

516
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 2: for you that they're not going to pick that out

517
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 2: multiple times or every time you do it. Let's let's

518
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 2: assume you call good enough. You know it sounds like

519
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 2: you rely on your calls a lot in North Idaho, Brushy.

520
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 2: If you're a good enough caller, I don't feel if

521
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 2: you sound like an elk, you can really mess things

522
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 2: up up or they attribute to memory.

523
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 3: I do get a little concerned.

524
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 2: Number one, if I ever get winded why I'm calling now,

525
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 2: I don't know I'm saying I get concerned now. I

526
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: don't know if that has just educated them for the season,

527
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 2: if it's educated them for two days, three days a week.

528
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,360
Speaker 2: Sometimes we went back in there a lot of times

529
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 2: I'll give them a day or two just because in

530
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 2: my head it's like, man, they I winded them, I

531
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 2: busted them, Like, I'm not going to put pressure on

532
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 2: them again. I want to let that memory subside. Now

533
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 2: I'm speculating here a lot getting winded while calling is

534
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 2: concerning being seen. Why calling? I think it has got

535
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 2: to trigger something like why is there a predator or

536
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 2: you know, a human looking at me that sounds just

537
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 2: like us I and I'm I'm just I'm thinking of

538
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 2: this like a human, Like I can't say what an

539
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,959
Speaker 2: elk actually understand. So with that said that to to

540
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 2: not circle around this question, if not to sound over

541
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 2: confident or pretentious or anything, I feel like I sound

542
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 2: enough like an elk with through my calling that I

543
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 2: can go back in there and not switch diaphragms, not

544
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 2: switch my style, as long as I know I didn't

545
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 2: get winded, and I don't feel that an elk's memory.

546
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, I've got enough, you know,

547
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 2: boots on the ground, real world experience to tell, you know,

548
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 2: be very confident that it doesn't matter. I've called to

549
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 2: a bowl one day, didn't work out, come back in

550
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 2: the next day and kill them with the same exact

551
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 2: sequence and the same exact diaphragm in my mouth. So yeah,

552
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 2: I don't feel you can really mess up by or

553
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 2: or by using the same calls, or that you have

554
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 2: to go through the process of switching your calls up,

555
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 2: or going from a diaphragm one day to an external

556
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 2: cow call the next day to a you know, a

557
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 2: squeeze call the next whatever you're using. I don't think

558
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 2: you have to go to those extents. Either the bulls

559
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 2: you're gonna it's gonna be right or it's going to

560
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 2: be wrong, regardless of what calls in your mouth. My opinion,

561
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 2: I do play a little bit of defense there if

562
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 2: if they've got winded when I come back in or whatnot.

563
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 2: But I don't feel if you sound like an elk,

564
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 2: you can really screw up too bad.

565
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: My opinion is pretty similar to yours. I feel like,

566
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: if you haven't busted that bowl, if you haven't spooked

567
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 1: him out of there, yeah, you could definitely go back

568
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: in with you know, the next day, or maybe you

569
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: want to let him set for a couple of days

570
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: before you go back in whatever. I don't think you

571
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: need to switch up your calls. But I will say

572
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: from my anecdotal experience where there was a time several

573
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: years ago I called in a bowl and I missed him.

574
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: I hit a branch and I missed him, and he

575
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: spooped off and ran off, but he kept bugling, so

576
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: I pushed up on and pressured him, and he came

577
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: in a couple more times. But I had pressure him

578
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: really hard that day, and one time he caught me

579
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: in the open and he I don't know that he

580
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: saw me, but I had the lad completely flat on

581
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: the ground because he caught me in an open trail

582
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: and I had a lay down so he wouldn't see

583
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: me when he came back. But then he finally eventually

584
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: kind of spookeed off. But I went back the next day, thinking, well,

585
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: this guy was hot. I'm gonna get him the next day.

586
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: And I could see him. It was in kind of

587
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: some kind of cutover timber, so I could see him

588
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: at a distance, and I got out of my truck,

589
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: hiked up the hill, got to the spot called I bugled,

590
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: and soon and he was feeding at the time as

591
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: soon as I bugled, he threw his head up and

592
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: he ran like, I'm the opposite director, the complete opposite direction.

593
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: So I feel like that that pressure that i'd put

594
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: on him the day before probably fouled that up. And

595
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: what we don't know is like once that, once that

596
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: scenario plays itself out, and you're like, well, I didn't

597
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: get him, I'm gonna go back home or whatever, I'm

598
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: gonna leave. Who's to say that bowl doesn't come back

599
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: and sniff around like our scent can be left on

600
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: the ground for quite a while. You know, I probably

601
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: took a leak afterwards, because I'd probably been holding it

602
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: for a while. But those things come back around and

603
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: sniff around the area a little later on in the day,

604
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, I don't know, like I don't

605
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: like what happened earlier. I don't know if they're that smart,

606
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: But I feel like, if you've bumped them, if they've

607
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: seen you, if you've spooke them pretty hard, you might

608
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: want to give them a couple of days to kind

609
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: of forget, or the next time when you go back in,

610
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: maybe you want to take your different bugle tube and

611
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: a different diaphragm. And kind of mix up your the

612
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: sounds you make and try.

613
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, hurt.

614
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 2: I mean, like I said, I can take different It

615
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 2: seems like if I take different bugle tubes of different diaphragms,

616
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 2: I end up sounding the same because I'm trying to

617
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 2: force myself to sound like a certain sound.

618
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 3: But yeah, I agree, you can.

619
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 2: You can change things up a little bit, just if

620
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 2: nothing else to give you the confidence that you're doing

621
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 2: something different, a little bit of a placebo effect, right, Like,

622
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 2: I'm of the opinion that it's either it's either right

623
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 2: or it's wrong. You know, the time's right or it's wrong.

624
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 2: And I don't know if it really matters what's in

625
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 2: your mouth for a call. You know, you're either going

626
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:48,959
Speaker 2: to sound like a cow and he wants to come

627
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 2: in and find a new cow, or you're going to

628
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 2: sound like a bull and he wants to come in

629
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 2: and run you off, regardless of maybe what you sound

630
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 2: like is my opinion, not saying it's fact. But I'm

631
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 2: more of the opinion though, that it's either right or

632
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 2: it's wrong at the time that you're using that call,

633
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 2: And it doesn't this sly matter what you sound like.

634
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: You love it. I have to agree with a lot

635
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: of that. All right, next question.

636
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 8: Hey, Derek, I appreciate this. I just got done with

637
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 8: my second archery. I'll hunt and bulls are pretty vocal

638
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 8: down in New Mexico and Nihila, bulls are pretty vocal.

639
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 8: But quickly I was kind of realizing that when we

640
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 8: were vocal using cow calls and stuff, they would be

641
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 8: vocal and kind of stop and we'd cut the distance.

642
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 8: But the second we'd introduce a bowl, they create distance

643
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,719
Speaker 8: from us and we would never be able to We

644
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 8: were never able to get on them. So my question

645
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 8: is do you think that elk came to cipher between

646
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 8: human and hunter? And do you think that they do that?

647
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 8: Do you think that they stay in order to keep

648
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 8: tabs on us to stay away from us? Thank you.

649
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 2: Man, that's a deep one. I'm trying to process it

650
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: all here. I'm gonna try to restate the question. Make

651
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 2: sure I got it. I'll let Dirt correct me. So

652
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 2: it sounds like they were in the Hila had elk

653
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 2: biglan being vocal and when they would calcol the elk

654
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 2: would sometimes cut the distance or move in, but when

655
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 2: they would bogle, they elk would shut up or maintain

656
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 2: their distance or get further away. I think that's it

657
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 2: for the most part, and without having any any further detail,

658
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 2: I think the distance or the the timing of your

659
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 2: bugles is maybe more important than just saying.

660
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 3: And I've got to speculate here.

661
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 2: I've talked about this a lot on even it maybe

662
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 2: ranks up as my number one mistake. Why calling elk

663
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 2: is did you bogle when you thought you were one

664
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: hundred yards away or knew you were a hundred yards away,

665
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:58,719
Speaker 2: or did you biegle when you thought you were three

666
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 2: hundred or four hundred yards away and expected that to work?

667
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 2: From my experience, and I learned the hard way many

668
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 2: many times of wanting to get a bull to beagle.

669
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 2: As I came in, I would, you know, be agle locate?

670
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 2: I would bugle a little bit down the hill or up,

671
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 2: you know. As I approach, I'd bugle again, and I'm like, man,

672
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 2: this elk is staying the same distance no matter what

673
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 2: I do.

674
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: You'd call your way to the bull?

675
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would, I because whether I wanted the confidence,

676
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 2: I wasn't confident where he was at, so I wanted

677
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 2: to hear him again to make sure I was going

678
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 2: the right spot, so you call you bigle again, you

679
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 2: get an answer, But you can only do that so

680
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 2: many times until you get to a spot where he's

681
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 2: gonna now pull his cows away and just leave right.

682
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 2: He's gonna avoid any confrontation if he can. For the

683
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 2: most part, with that said, I buggled myselves into betting

684
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 2: areas where that bowl wasn't going to move an inch,

685
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 2: and it worked out. But for the most part, especially

686
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 2: in the morning before they've actually betted down, I try

687
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 2: to make sure that I don't bugle until I'm very

688
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 2: very close. I feel that buggling your way into a

689
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 2: bowl from the time you locate until the time here

690
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 2: within the red zone or the bubble is the potential

691
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 2: greatest cause for that bull leaving or getting out of

692
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 2: the area with his cows. Of course, we're talking about

693
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 2: herd bulls here, which it sounds like I'm gonna speculate

694
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 2: that that's what you're you're hunting. But with that said,

695
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 2: timing of the bugle, I'd be very curious, and I

696
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 2: know we can't have a dialogue, but i'd be curious

697
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 2: to know if you were bugling at three hundred yards

698
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 2: or a hundred or five hundred like how that worked

699
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,720
Speaker 2: and kind of if the bull completely disappeared and stop bugling,

700
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 2: or if the bull would just kind of stay in

701
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 2: equidistance apart the entire time. In those situations, I would like,

702
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 2: I said, you got to just you got to get

703
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 2: closer to bagle. You have to be quiet, you have

704
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 2: to make some assumptions. You have to be confident that

705
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 2: those those elk are going to be in that location.

706
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: And what once you locate them, Yes, once you locate them,

707
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 1: then what you've.

708
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 2: Got to almost assume where they're at at that point. Now,

709
00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 2: some people might be like, well, I know right where

710
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 2: they're at when they be agle. For me, a lot

711
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 2: of times, whether it's mountain country or broken country, I'm like,

712
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 2: there's a bowl down in that canyon. I don't know

713
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 2: exactly where he's at, but there's something in that canyon,

714
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 2: and you know, whether it's a long distance bugle, whatever

715
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 2: it may be. So a lot of times you pull

716
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 2: out your mapping software. For us, it's on X, You're like,

717
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 2: all right, he's down that canyon. You put your little

718
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 2: you hit the I don't even know what the button

719
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 2: is on the bottom right of on X. You hit

720
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 2: the button, and it tells you exactly what's direction you're

721
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 2: pointing your phone. You kind of pointed to the bugle.

722
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 2: You're like, I think he's about five hundred yards. Well,

723
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 2: he's about in here, right. So now I've got a

724
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,879
Speaker 2: point in my head or on the map, and I've

725
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 2: got to assume that he's going to be there. Now,

726
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 2: if it's going to take you an hour to get there,

727
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 2: he might not be there right, And and so you've

728
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 2: got to you've got to add all this in. But

729
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 2: you've just got to get really really close to olt

730
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: when you're gonna bugle. You know, we we maybe talk

731
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 2: about it too much that we you know, we're bugle

732
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 2: bugle heavy collars, but we're we're always trying to get

733
00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 2: very very tight. You know, we locate from a distance,

734
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,720
Speaker 2: you get a response basically like a game of Marco polo,

735
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 2: but you don't you don't say it again until you

736
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 2: get within tight tight dis And some of them because

737
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 2: I feel your your chances of calling him in or

738
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 2: are very very difficult. And you know, in those instances

739
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 2: if you're gonna call them longer distances and a lot

740
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 2: of times you're not gonna call this herd bowl in.

741
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 2: If you do this but sticking to the cow calls,

742
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 2: like you said, you're most likely going to call in

743
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 2: some of those satellite bowls and they may be great bulls.

744
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 2: And if you're just after any legal elk and you're

745
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 2: not after any legal bowl and you're not after that

746
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:31,720
Speaker 2: herd bowl, it may be a great tactic.

747
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 3: But that's just my opinion.

748
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 2: I can't ask you, you know, the exact you know, situation,

749
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 2: but my speculation is you were maybe buggling a little

750
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 2: too far out, which would allow that bowl time to

751
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 2: run his cows up and get away from you.

752
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,399
Speaker 1: That's a great answer. One thing I'd like to bring

753
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: up to is he said he was second time, second

754
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: year l hunting.

755
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 3: Now.

756
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 1: Sometimes, and I don't want to assume that you're not

757
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 1: a good caller, but sometimes as new callers, we don't

758
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: sound like an elk very good. You know, Sometimes we

759
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,760
Speaker 1: make some bugles that are a little suspect, like maybe

760
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: your cow calls sound really good, maybe your bugles sound

761
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: not so good, And especially if you're hunting in an

762
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: area that's had some pressure or whatever, or maybe you know,

763
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: I've heard some elk calls before in the woods. Guys,

764
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: running calls and it sounded nothing like an ELK, and

765
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: they were selling it hard like it was an ELK

766
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: and it was not an ELK sound at all. So

767
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: you have to, like, you know, to look at the

768
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 1: man in the mirror a little bit and like, do Mike,

769
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: are my ELK calls authentic? Now? You don't have to

770
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: sound like some world champion ELK caller, your favorite YouTube celebrity, whatever.

771
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: What you have to sound is like an ELK, and

772
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 1: ELK make all sorts of weird vocalizations and some of

773
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 1: them sound really terrible. But what they do have is

774
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 1: they do have that realism. There's some there's a there's

775
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 1: a level of realism to the call. It may not

776
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: be a perfect call, but it does still have some

777
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 1: realism to them. But if your your calls are you know, subpar,

778
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 1: and they're just not sound like a real ELK, then

779
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: right now here we are it's November. Pick up a

780
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: call and wear out a few between now and next September.

781
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: You know, practice, practice, practice. It's a five to ten

782
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: minute thing a day. It's not a five hour thing

783
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: a day. You do not have to do this for

784
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: an hour a day unless you want to. But even

785
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 1: five ten minutes a day is definitely gonna move the needle.

786
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,800
Speaker 1: So by the time next fall comes, you're gonna be

787
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 1: very familiar with your call. The call you want to

788
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: make is going to come out of your bugle, and

789
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:42,280
Speaker 1: you're gonna sound pretty authentic. That would be my first thing. Now,

790
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: New Mexico. We've hunted New Mexico a few times, and

791
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 1: I know we got a lot of advice from people

792
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 1: who've hunted New Mexico before. One one piece of advice

793
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: I was given was don't ever call No, don't ever

794
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 1: bugle to bowls. In New Mexico. They don't bugle to bugles.

795
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: And I said, okay, what should we do? Well, be

796
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: very very heavy on cow calls. Okay, great day one,

797
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: New Mexico. Lots of cow calls. I'm doing lots of

798
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 1: cow calls, hardly no bugles. I'm just not getting any reaction.

799
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: I'm not getting any replies from these elk I'm not

800
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: getting you know, nothing is good, nothing's bad. I start bugling,

801
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: like I start running my normal program where I do.

802
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 1: I'm pretty bugle heavy, but I do use a lot

803
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 1: of caw calls too. Now I'm starting to get reactions

804
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: from these elk. So you can't always take all of

805
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 1: the advice as gospel. There's good advice, you know, in

806
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: every in you know, there's there's there's there's shades of

807
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 1: truth to everyone's advice. But you have to take that

808
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: that advice for what it's worth and for the day

809
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: and the situation that you're in. So if if Lake

810
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: mightst say, one day, you're doing some cow calls, but

811
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: you're just not calling anything in, try some bugles and

812
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: if those bugles are working, great, stick with them. Or

813
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: if the bugles are not working, let's say your calls

814
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: sound good like you in your bugling, but they elk

815
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: keep moving away. Maybe you should lay off the bugles.

816
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 1: Maybe let's let's just go to cow calls. Maybe try

817
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: to locate them really good and try to figure picking

818
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: down exactly where that bull is and then get there quietly,

819
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: get as close up close and personal that bull as

820
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 1: you can, and maybe at that time it'd be time

821
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 1: to dif some cow calls. But whatever's working, keep doing it.

822
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 1: Whatever's not working, don't do it. I'm a big believer

823
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: in that. And then one thing was really crazy for

824
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: me in New Mexico was we thought, like, we've been

825
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 1: hunting out for a long time, and you have kind

826
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: of a distance gauge. Every time you hear a bugle,

827
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, it's this far away. Well, New Mexico

828
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: really screwed with my head because the bulls would sound like, oh, yeah,

829
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 1: they're just right over here, you know, they're like three

830
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: hundred yards away, two hundred yar away. They could be

831
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: almost a mile away because of the din because of

832
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,879
Speaker 1: the how dense the timber is or the cover there.

833
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 1: It's not as they don't have big tall trees like

834
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: we have up in the Northwest. It's more open, so

835
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: the sound travels so much further and it's so much louder. You.

836
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 1: I felt like there were several days I thought, oh,

837
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 1: I would set up I think I'm gonna call this

838
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 1: bully in and he was still a quarter of a

839
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 1: mile away. I was not even in the realm of

840
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: calling this bullet. So you have to really factor that

841
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,720
Speaker 1: in to your calling setups too, especially in New Mexico.

842
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a different sound travel pattern there. So

843
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: all right, next question.

844
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,319
Speaker 6: Hey, Derek, this is a Dimitri just calling. I just

845
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 6: got back Montana archery hunt. I had a bull come

846
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:09,280
Speaker 6: in to forty yards that I had just previously arranged.

847
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 6: I was standing in front of some brush in a

848
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 6: tree and the ilk came in so fast I didn't

849
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 6: have time to draw. He faced straight at me and

850
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 6: was sniffing around looking for the cow that that I

851
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 6: just called. And I feel like five minutes I was frozen,

852
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 6: couldn't move. He finally turned quartered a little bit and

853
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 6: suck three steps in front of right behind two trees.

854
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 6: And so my question is, should I have tried to

855
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 6: tend that needle between those trees? Should I have tried

856
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 6: to take that funnel shot?

857
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 9: When he did quarter two and got his head yet

858
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 9: behind one of the trees. I did draw back, but

859
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 9: he never seems to give me really my shot that

860
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 9: I was kind of looking for.

861
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 4: I was hoping that he would take a couple.

862
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,720
Speaker 6: Of steps, but he never did, and he.

863
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,360
Speaker 4: Just kind of shot it off after.

864
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 6: I try to call Calum back. But yeah, just one

865
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 6: of those cify Ghanny tips for me on that, Thanks yer.

866
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: Man.

867
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 2: So I've been a big fan of Frontals for a

868
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 2: long time. Anybody it's heard me talk or talk about

869
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 2: Frontels knows that I'm a big fan. Now forty yards.

870
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 2: I'm not a big fan, right, so I'm gonna I'm

871
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 2: not telling you what to do, like this is the

872
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 2: decision everybody's got to make. But for me, forty yard

873
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 2: frontal is not gonna happen, no matter how excited I am,

874
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 2: no matter how much I want to kill a ball.

875
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 2: I know my limits usually going into season, and I've

876
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 2: never been comfortable to a point where a forty yard

877
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 2: frontel was like on the table, I've got to hit

878
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 2: a four inch wide slot, and if I can't guarantee

879
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 2: that arrow is going to hit inside of that four

880
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 2: inch wide by about twelve inches tall pocket, you know,

881
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 2: ten inch tall I pocket, I'm I'm not shooting, so

882
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 2: I would say frontels off off the table, you know,

883
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 2: shooting between two trees, I've got to guess a little

884
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 2: bit here, right, we didn't We don't get all the information.

885
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 2: I'm gonna assume you had vitals between those two trees.

886
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 2: At that point, there's no harm, right, You're either gonna

887
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 2: hit him where you need to hit him. If if

888
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 2: it's the vitals, are you gonna stick a tree? I

889
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 2: do way more comfortable with a shot between two sound

890
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 2: like maybe there's an opening between these two trees, I'm

891
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 2: way more confident there as long as I can tell

892
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 2: where the anatomy of this elk lays out in between

893
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 2: those two trees. You know, not everybody knows elk or

894
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 2: big yellow tan critters. You can get real confused, real quick,

895
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,439
Speaker 2: especially if that gap between those two trees is tight.

896
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,720
Speaker 2: You might not know if you're hitting guts, back, haunch,

897
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 2: shoulder blade right, if you can't make out definition and

898
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 2: so shooting between these two trees could be risky. But

899
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,879
Speaker 2: if you're confident, if you can maybe see his head

900
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 2: sticking out one side, his hind end sticking out the

901
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 2: other end, can gauge where you're at. I'm very confident

902
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 2: shooting between two trees because I feel like I'm either

903
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 2: going to hit him where he needs to be hit,

904
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 2: assuming he's at forty yards, or I'm gonna hit a

905
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 2: tree and worst thing is I lose a broadhead to

906
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 2: a tree. To back up a little bit, you know, yeah, elk,

907
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,879
Speaker 2: we still get surprised all the time on on elk

908
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 2: coming in silent.

909
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 3: You know, it's it's.

910
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 2: Crazy how how quiet an eight hundred pound plus or

911
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 2: minus critter can be.

912
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:29,760
Speaker 3: But uh, I've.

913
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 2: Learned that a lot of my success hinges on this

914
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 2: that very short window of hearing, seeing, knowing a bulls there,

915
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 2: and getting your bow drawn in a in a timely

916
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,760
Speaker 2: fashion that one you don't have to hold it forever,

917
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 2: but two you've got it drawn before he can see

918
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 2: you draw, you know, learning that it's almost more of

919
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 2: a of an art than it is than it is

920
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,359
Speaker 2: anything else. Is just knowing when and what you can

921
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 2: get away with and getting drawn back. But yeah, aside

922
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 2: from that, I don't have a lot of other advice,

923
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 2: Like you got to be very confident, you know, is

924
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 2: as Dirk had mentioned, he knows he's he's a hundred

925
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 2: percent confident if it's inside one hundred or inside forty yards,

926
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,479
Speaker 2: he's gonna he's gonna make the shot. You know, same

927
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 2: thing here if that bowls inside forty yards, I'm very

928
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 2: comfortable and and and if I'm gonna make that shot,

929
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 2: I want to be one hundred percent confident that I'm

930
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 2: gonna kill it. And so I don't like a forty

931
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 2: yard frontel, and I like the shot between the tree.

932
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,800
Speaker 2: But you know, having your bow drawn back soon enough

933
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 2: that you don't have to try to decide when to draw,

934
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 2: and if they're gonna draw, why they're you know, if

935
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 2: you're gonna get away with drawing, why they're looking at you?

936
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,360
Speaker 2: You try to prevent all that from being drawn before

937
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:39,800
Speaker 2: they their eyes are out in the open.

938
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have to agree with all that. That's a

939
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 1: great that's spot on. And I will say this too,

940
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: as far as alert elk in a frontal position, a

941
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: bull that's alert and looking like has stopped and is

942
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:03,879
Speaker 1: looking for that other bull or cow they're they're they're

943
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: on high alert at that point. So at forty yards,

944
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: when your bow goes off, it seems like you're both

945
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 1: shooting fast, but there's a there's enough time for between

946
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 1: the time your bow goes off and that arrow reaches

947
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: that elk for that that bowl to be facing the

948
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 1: complete opposite direction. They can spin on a dime very quickly.

949
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 1: So I don't really recommend a frontal shot on an

950
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 1: alert elk, whether it's at ten yards or at forty yards.

951
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,359
Speaker 1: I've been around, I've taken a frontal shot a couple

952
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: of them. I've I've been around other folks who have

953
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 1: taken frontal shots. And the bulls that are that are

954
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: coming in like on full alert. When that SHOT's taken.

955
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 1: You know, maybe the pen everything is in the perfect spot.

956
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,959
Speaker 1: But at the very split second that that bow goes

957
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 1: off and the arrow reaches the elk, they can move

958
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 1: and now it's not hitting in that same slot that

959
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 1: Jason was talking about. And now it's now it's gonna

960
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 1: be a track job that you may or may not

961
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:09,320
Speaker 1: yield a bull elk. So it's it's it's kind of

962
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,879
Speaker 1: a tricky situation. And especially at forty yards. I don't

963
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 1: recommend a frontal shot at forty yards whatsoever period. They

964
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: need to be closer twenty yards or less. There's so

965
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 1: many things to consider, like the angle of the elk.

966
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: Is he quartering this way, is according that way? Is

967
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 1: he above you? Is he below you? All the angles

968
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 1: have to be good to thread that that arrow right

969
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 1: down the pipe right, So consider extreme angles, whether it's

970
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: upper high or low, and angles of quartering. And then

971
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 1: the alert factor. If that bowl is not super alert, yeah,

972
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:50,879
Speaker 1: he may not know what hit him and he's gonna

973
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 1: tip over dead in forty yards on a perfect shot.

974
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 1: So that's my advice. All right, we have time for

975
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: one more question, Dirk.

976
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 7: My name's Preston dressler. I live in southwest Oregon. I

977
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 7: hope to harvest my first Roosevelt elk in the next

978
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 7: few years. I've been after them for eight years plus.

979
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 7: I'm hunting at over six thousand feet, so obviously a

980
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 7: very different train for Roosevelts. However, I understand that they

981
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,760
Speaker 7: live here year round and have had several close encounters,

982
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 7: just not what put one in the freezer yet. I'd

983
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 7: love to hear some information on hunting Roosevelt's.

984
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:28,840
Speaker 4: In the mountains.

985
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 7: I'm a rifle hunter. My season isn't until a round Thanksgiving. Obviously,

986
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 7: this is after the rut. Snows normally on the ground,

987
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 7: but the elk are being quiet. It's a you know,

988
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 7: a bowl only tag. So unfortunately cows aren't an option

989
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 7: for me. With relatively low success, I'd love to hear

990
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 7: some tips on how to find the elk come November.

991
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 7: I'm in contact with my wildlife experts in the area. Unfortunately,

992
00:49:58,160 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 7: this is a deer unit, so they don't have a

993
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 7: lot of information for me.

994
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 4: Please let me know.

995
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 7: What I should be doing, what I'm doing right, what

996
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 7: I'm doing wrong. Love the podcast, hope to hear more soon.

997
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 3: Bye bye, all right, so.

998
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 2: High it sounds like high mountain Roosevelt hunting. You know,

999
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 2: cascade roosevelts. I've got a lot of experience. I've i

1000
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 2: hunt cascade roosevelts growing up, still do occasionally, but I've

1001
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 2: never had the experience hunting them in rifle season. You know,

1002
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 2: you add snow in, There's there's a lot of There's

1003
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 2: a lot of components to this question. I'm trying to

1004
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 2: to kind of go back through them post rut. I'm

1005
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 2: just gonna boil it down to just what I know

1006
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 2: post rut, and Elk's job now is to fatten up

1007
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 2: and eat as much as he can. He's gonna typically

1008
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 2: the big bulls are gonna go into solitude. Smaller bulls

1009
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 2: may bachelor back up, some small bulls may stay with

1010
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 2: the herd. So it really depends on what your goal

1011
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 2: is going into the hunt. Some of the times I've

1012
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 2: hunted late, I'm looking for where is that bowl gonna

1013
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 2: find solitude and the feed that he needs to to

1014
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 2: basically put on as much fat, as much weight, and

1015
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 2: regain as much of that health as he can to

1016
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 2: get through that winter. If there's snow on the ground,

1017
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 2: I use that snow to my advantage. Whether it's uh,

1018
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 2: you know, you mentioned being high in the mountains. I

1019
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 2: don't know if there's a road system leading in or

1020
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:32,240
Speaker 2: a trail system. Cutting tracks can can tell you more

1021
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 2: than than anything else can where the elk have been recently,

1022
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:37,800
Speaker 2: where they've been for the last couple of days, weeks,

1023
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 2: whatever it may be. I don't know if you can

1024
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 2: glass in this area. If you can glass, I love

1025
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 2: to get up and look into openings early where they

1026
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 2: may be feeding, or where I can maybe look into

1027
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 2: some some some spots and you may some people may

1028
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 2: know what I'm talking about, but they're these spots that

1029
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 2: aren't like you're glassing a clear cut or an alpine

1030
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,240
Speaker 2: above the tree area, but it's there are these spots

1031
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:07,720
Speaker 2: that may have avalanche shoots, or they may have little

1032
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 2: teeny pockets in the timber you can look in. Those

1033
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:12,880
Speaker 2: are the spots in those later elk seasons. I like

1034
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 2: to look because these elk want to be, you know,

1035
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 2: where there's food, which will be these small little micro openings,

1036
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 2: but they want to be secure and have that security

1037
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:26,720
Speaker 2: and kind of that solitude. So I'm looking in areas

1038
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 2: like that. One thing I like to do. I like

1039
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 2: to I do two things. I want to be able

1040
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 2: to find elk obviously, so you can glass, you know,

1041
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:39,760
Speaker 2: miles across canyons or miles from ridge to ridge.

1042
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:41,439
Speaker 3: But I also like to be in the hunt.

1043
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 2: I like to look at canyons where if there is

1044
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 2: an elk there and the wind's gonna be right, I

1045
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 2: can shoot across that canyon.

1046
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 3: I'm in the hunt.

1047
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 2: Versus there are times where I consider I'm hunting, but

1048
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 2: I'm out of the hunt, right I'm glassing at something

1049
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:55,840
Speaker 2: two thousand and three thousand yards away, hoping to find

1050
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 2: something that I can then play on, but I'm never

1051
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 2: in the hunt at that moment. And so I I

1052
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 2: tend to like that, to be in the hunt when

1053
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 2: I can, or or when I'm looking at spots. But

1054
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 2: cutting sign obviously going to be your best bet.

1055
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:09,760
Speaker 3: Calling.

1056
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 2: There's there's no denying. It's it's off the table, cutting tracks,

1057
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 2: glassing in spots where other people aren't going to a

1058
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 2: lot of times, these bulls are gonna want to be

1059
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 2: away from pressure, away from people. If it's if it's

1060
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 2: a cow tag, you know, if you're allowed to. I

1061
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 2: think he did say bulls, right, you know, so so

1062
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 2: scratch that but you will find if you're looking for

1063
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 2: any bowl. A lot of times those those younger bulls

1064
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 2: will stay with the herd, especially as roosevelts tend to do.

1065
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 2: So if you find a large herd, I would definitely

1066
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:45,240
Speaker 2: concentrate on that as well. Those bigger bulls will typically

1067
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 2: as soon as the rut uh kind of winds down,

1068
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,359
Speaker 2: they're going to be off on their own, away from

1069
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 2: from all the cows. But not a great answer. We

1070
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 2: we still kill cascade roosevelts, uh, you know above the

1071
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:01,359
Speaker 2: tree line, or I say we or people that I

1072
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 2: know every year up high until the snow basically forces

1073
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 2: them down so you can go high, which it sounds

1074
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 2: like where you're at, and you know it can work.

1075
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 2: So not a great answer, but that that's really all

1076
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:20,240
Speaker 2: you can do is find tracks, concentrate on those micro openings.

1077
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:21,840
Speaker 2: A lot of times those bulls aren't gonna want to

1078
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 2: be out in the wide open where where you may

1079
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:28,359
Speaker 2: have found them in September October, And uh, yeah, that's

1080
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 2: that's the best I can can give on that one.

1081
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:32,839
Speaker 1: You know, I can't really add much at all of that.

1082
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 1: I mean, that was exactly how I would approach it.

1083
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 1: I don't. I can't really speak to Roosevelts, but elk

1084
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 1: or elk, right, they need they don't need all the

1085
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 1: same things I ROCKI needs all the same things a

1086
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 1: Roosevelt needs. You know, they need, they need food, they

1087
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:50,799
Speaker 1: need security, they need to be you know, they need

1088
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 1: to recoup from the rut. Right. So just to recap,

1089
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 1: if you're just having a hard time finding elk, like

1090
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 1: start start cast a wide in the beginning, drive the

1091
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 1: road system, look for elk. They're gonna try. If they're

1092
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: gonna cross roads. Maybe it's a trail system. Hike the trails.

1093
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: A lot of times elk cutting with a rifle is

1094
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 1: all about boot, leather and glass.

1095
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 3: Right.

1096
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,840
Speaker 1: So if if you need to hike a lot and

1097
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:18,400
Speaker 1: just find elk, if you can't, if it's not an

1098
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 1: area you can glass up, maybe you just got to

1099
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 1: cover tons of country in a day just to just

1100
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 1: hike a lot until you find sign and then slow

1101
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 1: down and hunt from there. Like Jason said, you know,

1102
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 1: bigger areas, you know, you may be able to glass

1103
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 1: into some clare cuts or whatever and find some elk.

1104
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of times you're gonna find the

1105
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 1: cows and maybe younger bulls, more mature bowls. A lot

1106
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:44,280
Speaker 1: of times will like you just said, well, we'll separate

1107
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 1: themselves looking for those micro habitats, those those little those

1108
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: avalanche shoots, those smaller openings in the timber, just those

1109
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 1: micro places where they don't have to travel far. If

1110
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,319
Speaker 1: they can bed one hundred yards away, if they can

1111
00:55:57,360 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 1: go over there, they can either belly full, maybe there's

1112
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:01,359
Speaker 1: somewhere to get some water, or maybe they don't need

1113
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 1: any water at that point because there's enough snow on

1114
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:07,360
Speaker 1: the ground, whatever, whatever the case may be, to locate

1115
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:09,919
Speaker 1: them that way, and then and then dig in, whether

1116
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:12,320
Speaker 1: you need to can shoot long range across the canyon,

1117
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:15,839
Speaker 1: you know, within within range, within reason, or maybe it's

1118
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,839
Speaker 1: like okay, i've i've i've spotted that bowl, I've I've

1119
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 1: used my on X to to pinpoint that little location.

1120
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 1: Maybe you don't have to get over there and and

1121
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: dig in and hike that that timber pocket to find

1122
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 1: that bowl. But that's that's how I would approach it

1123
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 1: to So anyway, thanks, Jason, appreciate I appreciate all these answers.

1124
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 1: I mean, one of these days we're gonna find some

1125
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 1: stuff we don't agree on and we're going to have

1126
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 1: a debate.

1127
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 3: White tails versus meal ears. We've had that a few times.

1128
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:46,800
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, we've had that a lot. You know, people

1129
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:48,800
Speaker 1: may not know this. Jason has a lot of hobbies.

1130
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 1: But but I call it arguing, but debate health help.

1131
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 1: He says, Hey, healthy debate. So like, I think healthy

1132
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: debate is one of his favorite hobbies. So I'm always

1133
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: challenging him on because I know how much he'll enjoys it.

1134
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 1: And I sure do too. But one of these days

1135
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 1: we're going to have a debate on here, We're gonna

1136
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: take opposite sides on something, and like, you know, I mean,

1137
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:12,760
Speaker 1: we could go out night about my tails and mule deer,

1138
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:17,080
Speaker 1: but you know that's for another another conversation. Appreciate it.

1139
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 1: But hey, you know we can do this again sometime.

1140
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 3: Guys.

1141
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 1: If you guys want to call in to the Super

1142
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 1: Secret hotline, it's two zero eight two one nine seven

1143
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 1: seven zero one. Leave a message. It can't be over

1144
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 1: three minutes long. I think that's what it is. Three

1145
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: minutes long, or it'll can just cut you off.

1146
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and don't no more than three minute because you

1147
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 2: won't remember the question. You're gonna have to like, play

1148
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 2: it back three or four times so you can put

1149
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 2: it all again.

1150
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 1: We're simple minded people like, but our memories are not

1151
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:47,439
Speaker 1: that long. I'll have to play it two or three times.

1152
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 1: Wait what do they say? So anyway, call in with

1153
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 1: your questions and we'll get either Jason or myself or

1154
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 1: maybe one of the guests on here to answer the question.

1155
00:57:57,440 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 1: Thanks a lot for listening, and we'll catch you on

1156
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 1: the next and