1 00:00:15,076 --> 00:00:24,676 Speaker 1: Pushkin, this is solvable. I'm Jacob Weisberg. We have made 2 00:00:24,756 --> 00:00:30,796 Speaker 1: a valiant effort to make sure that black scientists have 3 00:00:30,996 --> 00:00:35,356 Speaker 1: been at the table of the vaccine discovery and development, 4 00:00:35,756 --> 00:00:40,596 Speaker 1: the valuation of the data in the clinical trials, and 5 00:00:40,636 --> 00:00:45,236 Speaker 1: then the decisions at the FDA CDC of the allocation. 6 00:00:46,156 --> 00:00:50,156 Speaker 1: Even with such concerted efforts and successes with bringing black 7 00:00:50,276 --> 00:00:53,516 Speaker 1: scientists to the table, many people of color in the 8 00:00:53,636 --> 00:00:57,716 Speaker 1: United States still express hesitation about receiving the new COVID 9 00:00:57,836 --> 00:01:02,756 Speaker 1: nineteen vaccine. Americans of color serve in essential jobs across society, 10 00:01:03,116 --> 00:01:06,236 Speaker 1: which makes it even more urgent that they be vaccinated. 11 00:01:06,596 --> 00:01:09,436 Speaker 1: They were to people who check people into the emergency room. 12 00:01:09,716 --> 00:01:12,396 Speaker 1: They are the orderly, they are the ones in flood service, 13 00:01:12,436 --> 00:01:15,476 Speaker 1: they are the ones in transport, so you know that 14 00:01:15,516 --> 00:01:19,556 Speaker 1: they were at increased risk or being infected. According to 15 00:01:19,596 --> 00:01:23,116 Speaker 1: the CDC, black Americans are one point four times as 16 00:01:23,196 --> 00:01:27,236 Speaker 1: likely to be infected with COVID nineteen. Indigenous, Black and 17 00:01:27,356 --> 00:01:30,636 Speaker 1: Latin X Americans are at least two point seven times 18 00:01:30,636 --> 00:01:34,116 Speaker 1: more likely to die than their white neighbors, according to 19 00:01:34,156 --> 00:01:38,756 Speaker 1: American Public Media Research Lab. As COVID nineteen vaccines roll 20 00:01:38,796 --> 00:01:42,996 Speaker 1: out across the country. The medical establishment faces this problem. 21 00:01:43,036 --> 00:01:46,276 Speaker 1: How do you re establish trust or establish it in 22 00:01:46,276 --> 00:01:51,356 Speaker 1: the first place. If there's ever a time to understand 23 00:01:51,556 --> 00:01:56,996 Speaker 1: history and to understand how that has influence people's ability 24 00:01:56,996 --> 00:02:00,996 Speaker 1: to trust the health system, the time is now. Doctor 25 00:02:01,076 --> 00:02:04,116 Speaker 1: Valerie Montgomery Rice is the president and dean of the 26 00:02:04,156 --> 00:02:07,516 Speaker 1: Morehouse School of Medicine. She was among the first people 27 00:02:07,516 --> 00:02:10,716 Speaker 1: to be vaccinated in the United States. Her shot with 28 00:02:10,796 --> 00:02:15,276 Speaker 1: broadcast live on CNN. She thinks this is a problem 29 00:02:15,356 --> 00:02:18,996 Speaker 1: we can solve. I believe that we can move from 30 00:02:19,516 --> 00:02:28,276 Speaker 1: vaccine hesitancy to vaccine certainty. Doctor Montgomery Rice, I'm so 31 00:02:28,316 --> 00:02:30,476 Speaker 1: happy to be able to talk to you about this today. 32 00:02:30,796 --> 00:02:32,756 Speaker 1: You know, I think a lot of us have been 33 00:02:33,276 --> 00:02:37,436 Speaker 1: watching the catastrophe within the catastrophe or one of them, 34 00:02:37,476 --> 00:02:42,676 Speaker 1: which is that COVID nineteen has disproportionately infected people of color, 35 00:02:42,796 --> 00:02:46,796 Speaker 1: and I think even more disproportionately killed people of color. 36 00:02:47,156 --> 00:02:50,916 Speaker 1: You know, one would hope in that situation that African 37 00:02:50,956 --> 00:02:53,516 Speaker 1: Americans would be at the front of the line to 38 00:02:53,556 --> 00:02:56,676 Speaker 1: get their vaccines. And I wonder if you can talk 39 00:02:56,676 --> 00:03:01,396 Speaker 1: for a minute about where we are and why African 40 00:03:01,436 --> 00:03:04,436 Speaker 1: Americans are in some cases more reluctant than others to 41 00:03:04,516 --> 00:03:09,036 Speaker 1: get the vaccine. We know that this virus has disproportionately 42 00:03:09,116 --> 00:03:13,196 Speaker 1: impacted people of color, not just African Americans, but Latin 43 00:03:13,436 --> 00:03:17,116 Speaker 1: X and questions were raised early on, was there something 44 00:03:17,236 --> 00:03:21,196 Speaker 1: unique about race or ethnicity that put people at greater risk. 45 00:03:21,476 --> 00:03:24,476 Speaker 1: What we really recognize when you looked at the science 46 00:03:25,236 --> 00:03:28,436 Speaker 1: that this virus did not discriminate that if you were 47 00:03:28,476 --> 00:03:31,676 Speaker 1: in proximity with someone who was infected, you had a 48 00:03:31,756 --> 00:03:35,996 Speaker 1: higher chance of being infected. Latin X and African American 49 00:03:36,076 --> 00:03:39,156 Speaker 1: were the people who were the essential workers because they 50 00:03:39,196 --> 00:03:41,876 Speaker 1: are the people who check people into the emergency room, 51 00:03:42,116 --> 00:03:44,796 Speaker 1: they are the orderly, they're the ones in food service, 52 00:03:44,836 --> 00:03:48,316 Speaker 1: they're the ones in transport driving your buses, who were 53 00:03:48,316 --> 00:03:51,156 Speaker 1: picking up your trash, who were working in restaurants, etc. 54 00:03:51,876 --> 00:03:54,676 Speaker 1: So you know that they were at increased risk of 55 00:03:54,836 --> 00:03:58,476 Speaker 1: being infected. So it was not that this virus was 56 00:03:58,556 --> 00:04:02,956 Speaker 1: discriminatory per se against people because of their race ethnicity. 57 00:04:03,236 --> 00:04:06,676 Speaker 1: It's the social determinants they have led to this. Now, 58 00:04:06,836 --> 00:04:09,756 Speaker 1: having said all of that, we know that we see 59 00:04:09,796 --> 00:04:14,036 Speaker 1: a disproportion number of health disparities because of the social 60 00:04:14,076 --> 00:04:18,436 Speaker 1: constructs that have not allowed for greater access to care 61 00:04:18,836 --> 00:04:22,196 Speaker 1: and then access to the greatest level of quality of care. 62 00:04:22,716 --> 00:04:27,156 Speaker 1: And so we have made a valiant effort in the 63 00:04:27,436 --> 00:04:33,316 Speaker 1: science community to make sure that black scientists have been 64 00:04:33,356 --> 00:04:39,276 Speaker 1: at the table of the vaccine discovery and development, the 65 00:04:39,596 --> 00:04:44,516 Speaker 1: valuation of the data in the clinical trials, and then 66 00:04:44,836 --> 00:04:49,596 Speaker 1: the decisions at the FDA and CDC of the allocation. Yeah, 67 00:04:49,676 --> 00:04:53,276 Speaker 1: and of course people saw you getting your first dose 68 00:04:53,316 --> 00:04:56,476 Speaker 1: of the vaccine on CNN, and one of the other 69 00:04:56,516 --> 00:05:00,396 Speaker 1: first recipients of the Visor vaccine was an African American 70 00:05:00,476 --> 00:05:04,156 Speaker 1: nurse in Long Island. So they've clearly been efforts, which 71 00:05:04,196 --> 00:05:08,996 Speaker 1: you've been in the center of, to have prominent trust 72 00:05:09,716 --> 00:05:14,876 Speaker 1: African American voices publicly getting vaccinated. If someone sees you 73 00:05:14,916 --> 00:05:19,036 Speaker 1: getting vaccinated on CNN, sure that builds trust the institution. 74 00:05:19,156 --> 00:05:21,956 Speaker 1: You represent all the things you're talking about. But at 75 00:05:21,956 --> 00:05:26,116 Speaker 1: the same time, what my friends are saying, or what 76 00:05:26,196 --> 00:05:28,276 Speaker 1: my neighbors are saying, or what I feel like the 77 00:05:28,316 --> 00:05:31,316 Speaker 1: people I know are going to do, it's going to 78 00:05:31,436 --> 00:05:35,036 Speaker 1: have such a big impact. How do you create influence 79 00:05:35,076 --> 00:05:38,076 Speaker 1: at that level around vaccines? So you know, I take 80 00:05:38,116 --> 00:05:42,516 Speaker 1: a lot of phone calls, I answer a lot of emails, 81 00:05:43,196 --> 00:05:46,956 Speaker 1: and I tell people to truth always. So when we 82 00:05:46,996 --> 00:05:51,116 Speaker 1: didn't know stuff early on, Jacob, I told them we 83 00:05:51,156 --> 00:05:53,996 Speaker 1: didn't know yet, we needed to give time for the 84 00:05:54,116 --> 00:05:58,236 Speaker 1: studies to be completed with the vaccine trial. And then 85 00:05:58,356 --> 00:06:02,716 Speaker 1: as we started to know more, we then shared more. 86 00:06:03,196 --> 00:06:05,436 Speaker 1: And so what I've tried to do is to be 87 00:06:05,796 --> 00:06:10,676 Speaker 1: transparent about what we don't know and open even more 88 00:06:10,716 --> 00:06:13,796 Speaker 1: open about what we do know. And at no point 89 00:06:13,916 --> 00:06:18,516 Speaker 1: have I asked people to deviate from those healthcare practices though, 90 00:06:18,716 --> 00:06:23,316 Speaker 1: of the three ws washing your hands, wearing your masks, 91 00:06:23,676 --> 00:06:27,276 Speaker 1: and watching your distance, and recently I added a P 92 00:06:27,676 --> 00:06:30,396 Speaker 1: on that, so it's three ws N a P now 93 00:06:30,956 --> 00:06:36,076 Speaker 1: being patient for when is your turn to receive a vaccine? 94 00:06:36,516 --> 00:06:39,756 Speaker 1: And so I think it's really really critical that we, 95 00:06:39,916 --> 00:06:44,596 Speaker 1: as healthcare providers and as scientists let people know that 96 00:06:44,636 --> 00:06:48,316 Speaker 1: this is evolving. That's what I've tried to do with 97 00:06:48,396 --> 00:06:51,796 Speaker 1: my peers is to make sure that they understand that 98 00:06:51,876 --> 00:06:56,116 Speaker 1: we don't know everything, but what we do know, be 99 00:06:56,276 --> 00:07:00,396 Speaker 1: confident in that we have enough smart people to help 100 00:07:00,476 --> 00:07:03,036 Speaker 1: figure out most of these things. I mean, when I 101 00:07:03,116 --> 00:07:07,436 Speaker 1: hear about white people who don't want to take the vaccine, 102 00:07:07,756 --> 00:07:11,396 Speaker 1: I just have a gut reaction and that's irrational, that's 103 00:07:11,476 --> 00:07:15,676 Speaker 1: conspiracy thinking they're anti vaxxers. I have no sympathy whatsoever. 104 00:07:16,156 --> 00:07:18,996 Speaker 1: When I hear about African Americans who are reluctant to 105 00:07:18,996 --> 00:07:21,876 Speaker 1: take the vaccine, I think, well, there's a whole history there, 106 00:07:22,156 --> 00:07:24,836 Speaker 1: very specific things that happened in the past. Am I 107 00:07:24,996 --> 00:07:30,316 Speaker 1: right to draw that distinction? Or is anti vaccine anti vaccine? 108 00:07:30,356 --> 00:07:32,036 Speaker 1: I mean, are they versions of the same thing or 109 00:07:32,036 --> 00:07:34,676 Speaker 1: are they different things? They are not versions of the 110 00:07:34,716 --> 00:07:38,516 Speaker 1: same thing. So, you know, Jacob, if there's ever a 111 00:07:38,596 --> 00:07:43,916 Speaker 1: time to understand history and to understand how that has 112 00:07:44,036 --> 00:07:49,076 Speaker 1: influenced people's ability to trust a health system, the time 113 00:07:49,236 --> 00:07:54,116 Speaker 1: is now. There is a book called Medical Apartheid by 114 00:07:54,196 --> 00:07:59,596 Speaker 1: Harriet Washington. It is a very difficult read, but it 115 00:07:59,716 --> 00:08:04,396 Speaker 1: is a book that gives you a historical perspective on 116 00:08:04,516 --> 00:08:08,756 Speaker 1: what has happened from the time four hundred years ago 117 00:08:08,836 --> 00:08:11,276 Speaker 1: when we were brought to this country, when blacks were 118 00:08:11,276 --> 00:08:14,996 Speaker 1: brought to this country against their will, and how they 119 00:08:14,996 --> 00:08:21,276 Speaker 1: were used throughout their bodies and their minds for medical experimentation, 120 00:08:22,676 --> 00:08:26,036 Speaker 1: whether it was with the person who was named the 121 00:08:26,236 --> 00:08:32,156 Speaker 1: grandfather of gannacology, Maryon Sims, how he used black women 122 00:08:32,756 --> 00:08:38,396 Speaker 1: slave women against their will to perfect surgical procedure and 123 00:08:38,756 --> 00:08:42,556 Speaker 1: they were not given anesthesia, etc. Or whether or not 124 00:08:42,676 --> 00:08:46,916 Speaker 1: you're looking at how he addressed tetani in children and 125 00:08:46,956 --> 00:08:51,756 Speaker 1: how he used bondage to close their sutures and their 126 00:08:52,076 --> 00:08:56,036 Speaker 1: and their head that are usually closed on their own 127 00:08:56,156 --> 00:09:00,356 Speaker 1: over time, or you get to more modern day times 128 00:09:00,356 --> 00:09:04,356 Speaker 1: when you're talking about Tuskegee the actually we're not injected 129 00:09:04,396 --> 00:09:07,716 Speaker 1: per se with syphilis. They developed syphilis, but they were 130 00:09:07,756 --> 00:09:13,676 Speaker 1: not given treatment and it was intentional, right, And there 131 00:09:13,716 --> 00:09:17,716 Speaker 1: are other instances. You can think about the Mississippi appendectomies, 132 00:09:17,756 --> 00:09:22,196 Speaker 1: and we've had throughout the South challenges and history of 133 00:09:22,276 --> 00:09:26,916 Speaker 1: women having hysterectomies performed on them without their knowledge or consent. 134 00:09:28,156 --> 00:09:34,516 Speaker 1: And so while I would never be dismissive of people's concerns, 135 00:09:34,876 --> 00:09:37,916 Speaker 1: what I've tried to do is address their fears. And 136 00:09:38,036 --> 00:09:40,276 Speaker 1: the one way that I know to address a Jacob 137 00:09:41,036 --> 00:09:46,236 Speaker 1: is to acknowledge what has happened in the past and 138 00:09:46,476 --> 00:09:50,036 Speaker 1: talk about how we've learned from that for the future. 139 00:09:50,356 --> 00:09:52,876 Speaker 1: And one of the things that we learned was that 140 00:09:52,916 --> 00:09:58,636 Speaker 1: we needed to have trusted voices in the room, trusted 141 00:09:58,796 --> 00:10:04,596 Speaker 1: voices at the table of decision when clinic core experiments 142 00:10:04,796 --> 00:10:09,236 Speaker 1: were being designed, we needed to understand the science of 143 00:10:09,276 --> 00:10:14,196 Speaker 1: how the disease, whatever it is, impacts one race or 144 00:10:14,236 --> 00:10:17,796 Speaker 1: ethnicity or gender over another, and to make sure that 145 00:10:17,796 --> 00:10:22,796 Speaker 1: those persons were represented. And then we needed to understand 146 00:10:23,436 --> 00:10:30,316 Speaker 1: the social constructs in our society that prevent people from 147 00:10:30,356 --> 00:10:35,676 Speaker 1: having the greatest level of access or inclusion. And we 148 00:10:35,756 --> 00:10:41,916 Speaker 1: are doing that with this vaccine development and roll out, 149 00:10:42,836 --> 00:10:46,116 Speaker 1: and hopefully we're going to move us from this vaccine 150 00:10:46,196 --> 00:10:50,636 Speaker 1: hesitancy to vaccine acceptance. Yeah. I wonder if you can 151 00:10:50,676 --> 00:10:53,916 Speaker 1: tell me a little more about your own story and 152 00:10:53,956 --> 00:10:59,276 Speaker 1: how your family played into your approach to healthcare and science. 153 00:10:59,276 --> 00:11:02,676 Speaker 1: I mean, so much of this comes with you. How 154 00:11:02,716 --> 00:11:05,156 Speaker 1: we what we hear growing up, of course, And I 155 00:11:05,316 --> 00:11:10,476 Speaker 1: just I wonder how you became so passionate about healthcare 156 00:11:10,596 --> 00:11:14,476 Speaker 1: and the black community in particular. Well, you know, I 157 00:11:14,596 --> 00:11:17,356 Speaker 1: was raised in a single parent household. My parents divorced 158 00:11:17,356 --> 00:11:22,196 Speaker 1: when I was six, three sisters, and my mother raised us. 159 00:11:22,356 --> 00:11:26,396 Speaker 1: She started to work eventually in a paper factory. She 160 00:11:26,516 --> 00:11:29,356 Speaker 1: worked there twenty five years, seventy three, three to eleven, 161 00:11:29,396 --> 00:11:33,476 Speaker 1: eleven to seven, and became the highest ranking woman in 162 00:11:33,556 --> 00:11:37,836 Speaker 1: a paper factory in making Georgia. What I saw there 163 00:11:38,116 --> 00:11:41,676 Speaker 1: was resilience. I saw grit. I saw a woman who 164 00:11:41,716 --> 00:11:45,516 Speaker 1: came home every morning or evening a night when she 165 00:11:45,596 --> 00:11:48,196 Speaker 1: was finishing. And she only had a high school diploma, 166 00:11:48,276 --> 00:11:50,876 Speaker 1: but I believe she had a PhD. In my mind. 167 00:11:51,756 --> 00:11:55,956 Speaker 1: She would whisper things in our ears, Jacob, all things 168 00:11:55,956 --> 00:11:59,996 Speaker 1: are possible. You can do anything. And when you're growing up, 169 00:12:00,116 --> 00:12:02,476 Speaker 1: it's a nuisance because somebody's in your ear while you're 170 00:12:02,476 --> 00:12:05,396 Speaker 1: trying to sleep, right, it's a nuisance. And so she 171 00:12:05,596 --> 00:12:09,436 Speaker 1: was trying to instill to us what was possible. And 172 00:12:09,516 --> 00:12:11,596 Speaker 1: I went to Georgia Tech based on the fact that 173 00:12:11,636 --> 00:12:15,436 Speaker 1: my science teacher said, you're good in math and science 174 00:12:15,676 --> 00:12:19,596 Speaker 1: and they're looking for black kids to be engineers. And 175 00:12:19,676 --> 00:12:21,796 Speaker 1: I got a scholarship to go to Georgia Tech. Really 176 00:12:21,796 --> 00:12:25,196 Speaker 1: didn't hardly even apply to other places, and I coopered 177 00:12:25,236 --> 00:12:28,196 Speaker 1: Proctant Gams, the chemical engineer and major, and they offered 178 00:12:28,236 --> 00:12:32,756 Speaker 1: me a job. And that scared me to death because 179 00:12:32,836 --> 00:12:35,596 Speaker 1: I actually didn't want to be an engineer. And I 180 00:12:35,756 --> 00:12:39,756 Speaker 1: looked up in an encyclopedia math, science, and people, and 181 00:12:39,796 --> 00:12:42,156 Speaker 1: one of the things that had come there is medicine, 182 00:12:43,476 --> 00:12:47,596 Speaker 1: and I went over to Spellman College because Georgia Tech 183 00:12:47,636 --> 00:12:49,916 Speaker 1: did not have a pre mad major at that time. 184 00:12:50,796 --> 00:12:53,516 Speaker 1: Told my advisor, I think I want to go to 185 00:12:53,556 --> 00:12:55,756 Speaker 1: medical school. And she said, you don't seem to know 186 00:12:55,796 --> 00:12:58,636 Speaker 1: a lot about going to medical school. And I said 187 00:12:58,676 --> 00:13:01,236 Speaker 1: to her, I didn't know a lot about being an engineer, 188 00:13:01,516 --> 00:13:06,156 Speaker 1: and that's working out okay. And so I really believed 189 00:13:06,396 --> 00:13:09,076 Speaker 1: that all things were possible. So the rest is here. 190 00:13:09,436 --> 00:13:11,996 Speaker 1: I decided to leave Georgia Tech with a chemistry degree. 191 00:13:12,276 --> 00:13:15,396 Speaker 1: I went to Harvard Medical School and now I've had 192 00:13:15,436 --> 00:13:18,796 Speaker 1: a daughter to graduate from Harvard Medical School. And so 193 00:13:19,916 --> 00:13:23,436 Speaker 1: when you look at this history, I think it was 194 00:13:23,516 --> 00:13:30,356 Speaker 1: built on resilience and grid. So the presence of African 195 00:13:30,356 --> 00:13:35,996 Speaker 1: American medical researchers and medical practitioners at every level is 196 00:13:36,036 --> 00:13:41,196 Speaker 1: crucial to establishing that greater trust. But we have a 197 00:13:41,276 --> 00:13:44,716 Speaker 1: real lag there, don't we in medical school? And you know, 198 00:13:44,876 --> 00:13:49,516 Speaker 1: the numbers of African Americans enrolled is going up, but 199 00:13:49,556 --> 00:13:52,156 Speaker 1: it's going up slowly. And I don't even know what 200 00:13:52,236 --> 00:13:55,916 Speaker 1: the statistics look like in medical research and in the 201 00:13:55,956 --> 00:13:59,316 Speaker 1: development of the vaccine. But what are you able to 202 00:13:59,356 --> 00:14:02,916 Speaker 1: point you there? So if you look at the Association 203 00:14:03,116 --> 00:14:06,796 Speaker 1: of American Medical College is what we call the Double AMC. 204 00:14:07,516 --> 00:14:12,196 Speaker 1: Black physicians account are only five percent of all physicians 205 00:14:12,236 --> 00:14:16,076 Speaker 1: in this country, even though we comprise thirteen percent of 206 00:14:16,116 --> 00:14:21,276 Speaker 1: the population. You will see that black females outpaced black 207 00:14:21,316 --> 00:14:25,196 Speaker 1: males at a ratio of about two point five to one, 208 00:14:25,356 --> 00:14:29,196 Speaker 1: with there only being six hundred and nineteen black males 209 00:14:29,276 --> 00:14:34,796 Speaker 1: who enter medical school in twenty nineteen. Now understand what 210 00:14:34,876 --> 00:14:39,076 Speaker 1: that does in a classroom setting. Imagine I'm in a 211 00:14:39,116 --> 00:14:42,956 Speaker 1: classroom with one hundred, one hundred and twenty five students 212 00:14:42,996 --> 00:14:47,076 Speaker 1: and there are there's one black male, and let's say 213 00:14:47,116 --> 00:14:50,836 Speaker 1: that there are nine black females. Lots of medical school 214 00:14:50,876 --> 00:14:54,956 Speaker 1: classes now occur in small groups, and let's just say 215 00:14:54,996 --> 00:15:00,116 Speaker 1: that we're talking about gun violence, and so these medical 216 00:15:00,196 --> 00:15:05,756 Speaker 1: students are forming an opinion about gun violence. And a 217 00:15:05,796 --> 00:15:09,516 Speaker 1: lot of that opinion doesn't just come from the litera tour. 218 00:15:09,836 --> 00:15:13,396 Speaker 1: It comes from the conversations that are had in those 219 00:15:13,436 --> 00:15:16,276 Speaker 1: small groups. Now, you may say, well, how does that 220 00:15:16,356 --> 00:15:21,316 Speaker 1: impact my care delivery? Well, let's say I'm now on 221 00:15:21,356 --> 00:15:28,116 Speaker 1: the trauma team at Grady Hospital and every person that 222 00:15:28,196 --> 00:15:32,956 Speaker 1: comes in is a black male with a gunshot woman 223 00:15:34,356 --> 00:15:37,276 Speaker 1: Not only am I bias from the fact that in 224 00:15:37,316 --> 00:15:41,476 Speaker 1: my small classroom setting, I haven't had the opportunity right 225 00:15:41,996 --> 00:15:46,316 Speaker 1: to have conversation with a black male student who may 226 00:15:46,316 --> 00:15:49,236 Speaker 1: have never been involved with gun violence, but it is 227 00:15:49,276 --> 00:15:52,596 Speaker 1: also affirmed for me when I get into the clinical setting. 228 00:15:53,756 --> 00:16:00,596 Speaker 1: That is why diversity by race, ethnicity, gender, socioeconomic status, religion, 229 00:16:01,836 --> 00:16:05,836 Speaker 1: sexual orientation is so critical to how we educate and 230 00:16:05,876 --> 00:16:10,836 Speaker 1: train and how we remove ourselves. I'm a biases and 231 00:16:10,876 --> 00:16:14,196 Speaker 1: are able to be more inclusive in our thoughts and 232 00:16:14,276 --> 00:16:18,396 Speaker 1: our care delivery. Yeah, I have seen some studies that 233 00:16:18,836 --> 00:16:21,156 Speaker 1: maybe as high as a third or thirty five percent 234 00:16:21,196 --> 00:16:24,916 Speaker 1: of African Americans say they don't intend to get vaccinated 235 00:16:25,076 --> 00:16:29,116 Speaker 1: or don't trust the vaccine. When people say that, what 236 00:16:29,236 --> 00:16:31,836 Speaker 1: are they afraid of? Specific? When you say why won't 237 00:16:31,876 --> 00:16:34,396 Speaker 1: you get the vaccine? Do you what do you hear about? 238 00:16:34,796 --> 00:16:37,476 Speaker 1: Most of the time, really, Jacob, they go back to 239 00:16:37,516 --> 00:16:41,556 Speaker 1: the trust because they say, you know, it's hard for 240 00:16:41,676 --> 00:16:46,516 Speaker 1: me now sometimes to get access to the highest quality 241 00:16:46,596 --> 00:16:50,036 Speaker 1: of care. So why would I believe that somebody is 242 00:16:50,116 --> 00:16:53,756 Speaker 1: really ready to give me access to a vaccine that's 243 00:16:53,756 --> 00:16:57,436 Speaker 1: supposed to be great? And so it is about building 244 00:16:57,436 --> 00:17:04,116 Speaker 1: that trust. We did a vaccination program with civil rights 245 00:17:04,276 --> 00:17:09,916 Speaker 1: leaders seventy five and above and Bassada, Andrew Young Herey, 246 00:17:09,916 --> 00:17:14,836 Speaker 1: Hank Thomas Herey, Aaron and his wife Billy Aaron, doctor 247 00:17:14,916 --> 00:17:18,276 Speaker 1: Lewis Sullivan, previous Secretary of HHS, previous president of more 248 00:17:18,316 --> 00:17:24,276 Speaker 1: House School of Medicine. Those people were around when Tuskegee occurred. 249 00:17:24,716 --> 00:17:29,116 Speaker 1: Those people actually lived through that history. Yet they were 250 00:17:29,156 --> 00:17:33,756 Speaker 1: willing to step up and get vaccinated because they believe 251 00:17:33,796 --> 00:17:37,676 Speaker 1: in science and because it was linked to more House 252 00:17:37,676 --> 00:17:43,276 Speaker 1: School of Medicine, that trusted entity. Yeah, when you project forward, 253 00:17:43,476 --> 00:17:46,916 Speaker 1: say a year from now, when with hopefully you know, 254 00:17:47,436 --> 00:17:53,076 Speaker 1: vast majority of the population vaccinated and the pandemic if 255 00:17:53,116 --> 00:17:56,996 Speaker 1: it still exists, is a very manageable kind of problem. 256 00:17:57,356 --> 00:18:00,076 Speaker 1: Do you think we'll look back and say this, the 257 00:18:00,196 --> 00:18:03,756 Speaker 1: vaccine was a success story in relation to people of 258 00:18:03,756 --> 00:18:07,756 Speaker 1: color and to African Americans in the sense that there 259 00:18:07,876 --> 00:18:11,716 Speaker 1: wasn't a lag in when they got vaccinated the proportion 260 00:18:11,796 --> 00:18:14,716 Speaker 1: in which they got vaccinated. Do you think we're gonna 261 00:18:14,796 --> 00:18:19,876 Speaker 1: eliminate that disparity, just as we utterly failed to eliminate 262 00:18:19,996 --> 00:18:23,996 Speaker 1: the disparity the historic disparity reflected in who got the 263 00:18:24,076 --> 00:18:27,596 Speaker 1: disease and who suffered most from it. So I look 264 00:18:27,636 --> 00:18:30,356 Speaker 1: at this in two ways, Jacob. What I believe we 265 00:18:30,396 --> 00:18:35,156 Speaker 1: will do is we will say the vaccine did what 266 00:18:35,196 --> 00:18:39,476 Speaker 1: we expected it to do. Along with the other healthcare 267 00:18:39,596 --> 00:18:44,796 Speaker 1: preventaged strategies of the three WS, the vaccine helped us 268 00:18:44,916 --> 00:18:48,516 Speaker 1: to mitigate the disease because first you're going to see 269 00:18:48,836 --> 00:18:53,876 Speaker 1: decrease in death, then decrease in hospitalizations, but not necessarily 270 00:18:54,356 --> 00:18:58,916 Speaker 1: rapid decrease in cases. Now, what the what I want 271 00:18:58,916 --> 00:19:01,156 Speaker 1: to look back and say the virus did it though, 272 00:19:02,396 --> 00:19:08,236 Speaker 1: was it showed us the chronicity of health disparities and 273 00:19:08,356 --> 00:19:13,316 Speaker 1: health in eques in this country. And as my daughter 274 00:19:13,316 --> 00:19:18,156 Speaker 1: would say, it woke all of us up to how 275 00:19:18,436 --> 00:19:23,396 Speaker 1: we should create interventions that are sustainable such that we 276 00:19:23,596 --> 00:19:27,956 Speaker 1: never are here again. So that when we think about 277 00:19:28,596 --> 00:19:32,636 Speaker 1: innovations that we will develop in cancer and diabetes and 278 00:19:32,756 --> 00:19:38,356 Speaker 1: heart disease, that we will ensure the appropriate dissemination and 279 00:19:38,436 --> 00:19:43,796 Speaker 1: allocation of that intervention and discovery to communities that have 280 00:19:43,836 --> 00:19:49,236 Speaker 1: been left behind, ensure that people who are disproportionate impacted 281 00:19:49,596 --> 00:19:54,556 Speaker 1: have access to those interventions. That we will understand the 282 00:19:54,636 --> 00:19:58,916 Speaker 1: impact of social determinants that you can't be talking to 283 00:19:59,036 --> 00:20:02,836 Speaker 1: people about, oh, you should exercise three times a week 284 00:20:03,316 --> 00:20:06,676 Speaker 1: and go get this medication field if they're not in 285 00:20:06,716 --> 00:20:10,116 Speaker 1: a safe neighborhood or if they don't have a job, 286 00:20:10,556 --> 00:20:15,756 Speaker 1: so that we will understand how social determinants influence access 287 00:20:15,836 --> 00:20:20,356 Speaker 1: to care and quality of care. Doctor Montgomery Rice. We 288 00:20:20,356 --> 00:20:23,956 Speaker 1: always like to wrap up unsolvable by talking about things 289 00:20:24,076 --> 00:20:26,996 Speaker 1: listeners can do, and in this case, I think the 290 00:20:27,076 --> 00:20:29,796 Speaker 1: question is what can people do to help build trust 291 00:20:29,876 --> 00:20:35,396 Speaker 1: in the vaccine. I think that people should do due 292 00:20:35,476 --> 00:20:41,716 Speaker 1: diligence and listening and finding trusted advisors to help them 293 00:20:41,836 --> 00:20:45,516 Speaker 1: understand the signence. Now I'm not saying they need to 294 00:20:45,596 --> 00:20:49,436 Speaker 1: understand how a vaccine works, because we all take many 295 00:20:49,436 --> 00:20:52,236 Speaker 1: of us take the flu vaccine right and we don't 296 00:20:52,276 --> 00:20:55,556 Speaker 1: necessarily know how the flu vaccine works. But what we 297 00:20:55,636 --> 00:20:58,876 Speaker 1: have done is that we have found a trusted advisor, 298 00:20:59,076 --> 00:21:03,356 Speaker 1: usually in our healthcare provider, that helps us to feel 299 00:21:03,356 --> 00:21:08,076 Speaker 1: more comfortable we're taking that vaccine. So I want to 300 00:21:08,116 --> 00:21:13,676 Speaker 1: continue to stress to people to go to trusted sources 301 00:21:13,756 --> 00:21:17,996 Speaker 1: so that they can understand the benefits of the vaccine. 302 00:21:18,676 --> 00:21:20,756 Speaker 1: The second thing that I would ask them to do 303 00:21:21,396 --> 00:21:26,196 Speaker 1: is to continue the three ws, washing their hands, watching 304 00:21:26,236 --> 00:21:29,796 Speaker 1: their distance, and wearing their masks. Because if you do 305 00:21:29,876 --> 00:21:33,916 Speaker 1: that and then you are patient, your time for the 306 00:21:34,076 --> 00:21:39,356 Speaker 1: vaccine will come. But in the meantime you will decrease 307 00:21:39,396 --> 00:21:44,476 Speaker 1: your chance of being a case, a hospitalization of death. 308 00:21:44,996 --> 00:21:48,116 Speaker 1: And then the third thing that I will say is 309 00:21:48,796 --> 00:21:52,956 Speaker 1: that we need to recognize that we have the power 310 00:21:53,076 --> 00:21:59,116 Speaker 1: in this country to do most anything. Recognize who your 311 00:21:59,156 --> 00:22:05,956 Speaker 1: circle of influence is, and continue to have open conversations 312 00:22:05,996 --> 00:22:10,036 Speaker 1: about what got us here, but left not let the 313 00:22:10,156 --> 00:22:16,356 Speaker 1: past holders back from realize in our bright future. Doctor Mortcommress, 314 00:22:16,396 --> 00:22:18,236 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you made me feel really good watching 315 00:22:18,276 --> 00:22:21,036 Speaker 1: you get your shot out to see you're afraid of needles, 316 00:22:21,036 --> 00:22:23,196 Speaker 1: just like I am. And I saw you doing the 317 00:22:23,236 --> 00:22:25,956 Speaker 1: same thing I do, which is look away from the needle. 318 00:22:26,316 --> 00:22:30,196 Speaker 1: About the dean of a medical school and a doctor 319 00:22:30,236 --> 00:22:33,716 Speaker 1: has the same phobia, maybe it's pretty normal. And then 320 00:22:33,836 --> 00:22:37,516 Speaker 1: let me just tell you it hurt way less than 321 00:22:37,556 --> 00:22:40,636 Speaker 1: the flu vaccine ever heard. So it was it was 322 00:22:40,676 --> 00:22:43,116 Speaker 1: like nothing. I was like, oh my god, don't even 323 00:22:43,156 --> 00:22:45,316 Speaker 1: like to watch a needle going into someone else's arm. 324 00:22:45,356 --> 00:22:46,996 Speaker 1: I kind of just closed my eyes. Well, I don't 325 00:22:47,036 --> 00:22:49,836 Speaker 1: mind putting the needle in somebody else bothered it just 326 00:22:49,956 --> 00:22:52,076 Speaker 1: I just don't want it in my arm. Yeah, well, 327 00:22:52,076 --> 00:22:53,956 Speaker 1: I wish you were here to give me a vaccine, 328 00:22:53,956 --> 00:22:55,636 Speaker 1: but I think I'm gonna have to wait my turn 329 00:22:55,836 --> 00:22:58,396 Speaker 1: right well, and certainly rather have my vaccine at more 330 00:22:58,436 --> 00:23:02,076 Speaker 1: house medical college than at a pharmacy. Is there any 331 00:23:02,636 --> 00:23:05,476 Speaker 1: way to influence where we get these vaccines, you know? 332 00:23:05,756 --> 00:23:08,836 Speaker 1: So we have been in discussions with our Department of 333 00:23:08,876 --> 00:23:11,836 Speaker 1: Public Health, and I know other leaders around the country 334 00:23:12,716 --> 00:23:15,156 Speaker 1: who run medical schools like I do, have been in 335 00:23:15,796 --> 00:23:19,596 Speaker 1: conversations with their Department of Public Health, so talking about 336 00:23:19,636 --> 00:23:23,156 Speaker 1: how do we make it more readily available to the public. 337 00:23:23,596 --> 00:23:26,116 Speaker 1: And one of the things that we're planning to do 338 00:23:26,236 --> 00:23:30,956 Speaker 1: here is to have these vaccine vaccinations in our parking 339 00:23:30,996 --> 00:23:35,436 Speaker 1: lot drive through vaccinations every Saturday for the month of January. 340 00:23:35,716 --> 00:23:38,876 Speaker 1: We're also going to use our mobile research van to 341 00:23:39,276 --> 00:23:43,516 Speaker 1: set up in many of the rural areas in the 342 00:23:43,556 --> 00:23:46,556 Speaker 1: state to be able to offer vaccinations. So we are 343 00:23:46,756 --> 00:23:53,436 Speaker 1: encouraging the departments of public Health to partner with grassroots organizations, 344 00:23:53,716 --> 00:23:57,716 Speaker 1: fairly qualified health clinics to really be able to get 345 00:23:57,756 --> 00:24:01,796 Speaker 1: these vaccinations to the public versus the public having to 346 00:24:01,876 --> 00:24:06,596 Speaker 1: come to an establish hospital setting where people are overburdened 347 00:24:06,636 --> 00:24:09,476 Speaker 1: right now with COVID cases, so that they can really 348 00:24:09,516 --> 00:24:12,236 Speaker 1: get their vaccines. But I also would say to your 349 00:24:12,236 --> 00:24:15,756 Speaker 1: listeners there are vaccine trials still going on, so right 350 00:24:15,796 --> 00:24:18,196 Speaker 1: now I'm more House School of Medicine and at several 351 00:24:18,196 --> 00:24:21,396 Speaker 1: other places throughout the country, the novavax vaccine trial that 352 00:24:21,476 --> 00:24:24,116 Speaker 1: is going on, So look that up. You can go 353 00:24:24,116 --> 00:24:27,276 Speaker 1: and find it on an NIH site. And rolling a trial, 354 00:24:27,316 --> 00:24:29,076 Speaker 1: you got a fifty percent chance you're going to get 355 00:24:29,156 --> 00:24:32,436 Speaker 1: the vaccine versus getting to placebo. And so I would 356 00:24:32,436 --> 00:24:35,236 Speaker 1: say try it. Well. Thank you so much for joining 357 00:24:35,316 --> 00:24:38,476 Speaker 1: us Unsolvable, and thank you doctor Montgomery Rice for your 358 00:24:38,596 --> 00:24:44,796 Speaker 1: leadership in helping America get vaccinated to end this pandemic 359 00:24:44,876 --> 00:24:47,116 Speaker 1: as as soon as we can. Oh, thank you, I 360 00:24:47,116 --> 00:24:51,556 Speaker 1: appreciate it. Doctor Valerie Montgomery Rice is the President and 361 00:24:51,716 --> 00:24:54,476 Speaker 1: Dean of the more House School of Medicine. Be sure 362 00:24:54,516 --> 00:24:56,476 Speaker 1: to check out our show notes for links to the 363 00:24:56,516 --> 00:24:59,956 Speaker 1: facts about COVID nineteen vaccines that you can share with 364 00:25:00,076 --> 00:25:03,636 Speaker 1: friends and family. Next week, Unsolvable, we'll talk about how 365 00:25:03,676 --> 00:25:07,476 Speaker 1: to make and break habits. It's a season of resolutions, 366 00:25:07,636 --> 00:25:10,076 Speaker 1: but really setting yourself up to make changes in your 367 00:25:10,156 --> 00:25:13,636 Speaker 1: life and behavior can happen anytime of year. Please join 368 00:25:13,796 --> 00:25:17,276 Speaker 1: us for our conversation about achieving your goals, and here's 369 00:25:17,316 --> 00:25:22,076 Speaker 1: a preview. It starts with friction Solvable. Senior producer is 370 00:25:22,156 --> 00:25:26,356 Speaker 1: Jocelyn Frank, Booking by Lisa Dunn. Our managing producer is 371 00:25:26,436 --> 00:25:30,756 Speaker 1: Catherine Girardo and Mia Lobell Is the executive producer of pushkin. 372 00:25:31,276 --> 00:25:32,476 Speaker 1: I'm Jacob Weisberg.