1 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:05,359 Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast. 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: This week's ae, We've got doctor Ryan Martin on. He 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,639 Speaker 1: is the Anger Professor, and he's got a new book 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: out called Emotion Hacks, Fifty Ways to Feel Better Fast. 5 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,080 Speaker 1: How are we feeling today? Kab Are we angry? Are 6 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: we chill? Are we chiller? 7 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 2: Now? 8 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 1: But this is a timely topic. Okay, let's get him on. Hey, everybody, 9 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 1: how are you? 10 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 2: I'm well, how are you? 11 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: We are really good? I'm feeling not angry at the moment, 12 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: but I'd been running angry. So actually this is divine timing. 13 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: Look at it. You already put his doctor face on. 14 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: Really got concerned. Well, let's get to the bottom of 15 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: that quickly. Yeah, well, why don't we just jump right 16 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:43,919 Speaker 1: into it? 17 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 2: Then? 18 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: You know, I was going to ask you, you know, 19 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: as we're into it now, we just we just like 20 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: to hop right into it. So how many more times 21 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: should I say, let's just jump into it? I really 22 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: notice my anger and obviously I'm a woman, and so 23 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: my emotions and time in my forties. I was telling 24 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: my husband the other day because I skipped my entire period, 25 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: like didn't even come in February and I said to 26 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 1: him and he's like, are you okay? And I said, well, baby, 27 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 1: you know I'm going into perimenopause. I'm in my forties. 28 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: It's going to happen my emotions. And he's like, well, 29 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: how long is that going to last for? And how 30 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: long are your emotions going to be? And so I 31 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: like chat cheepy teat it. Oh devastating news and I'm like, 32 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 1: whoa the next ten years boom yeah, And he's just like, 33 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: wait what and I said, yeah, I said, but I 34 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 1: what I do realize is that when i'm so now 35 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,759 Speaker 1: that i'm you know, leveling a team, I but yes, 36 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: doctors like can I please leave me? Yeah? But it's 37 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: so interesting because it plays such a role in my 38 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: anger and all of it. Because when I'm regulated and 39 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: my hormones are good and I'm off the cycle, I'm 40 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: just like, oh, everything's great, Like we're fine, right, So 41 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: how do you how do you how do you deal 42 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: with that piece of things when when, and so much 43 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: of it is honestly out of our control. 44 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think there's three things that come to 45 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 2: mind as you're talking about this. One is, you know, 46 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 2: the things you're describing are going to have an impact 47 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 2: very directly through hormones, as you know, as you're describing them. 48 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 2: But then there's also it has an indirect impact too, 49 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 2: because those any kind of life changes like that, they 50 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 2: change how you think about yourself, They change about you know, 51 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 2: like how you interact with people, They change how you 52 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 2: interpret things happening to you. So there's this indirect impact 53 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 2: as well. And the third thing that's really coming to 54 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 2: my mind too is that you're right there, there is 55 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 2: so much that's out of our control and that impacts 56 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 2: our emotions, which is why to me, it really speaks 57 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,799 Speaker 2: to trying to identify, so what parts of this are 58 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,239 Speaker 2: within my control. And so for me, that's a big 59 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 2: piece of emotion management is trying to do all of 60 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 2: the little things, or as many of the little things 61 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 2: as we can to try and manage our emotional well being. 62 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 2: So I can stay hydrated, I can do my best 63 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 2: to get a good night's sleep, I can try and 64 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 2: eat right, I can go for walks or get adequate 65 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 2: exercise and so on. 66 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: I see you. 67 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 2: Hydrating right now as we talk about it. 68 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,799 Speaker 1: Nice, work, less, angry, more hydro yes. 69 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, And so all of those you know, sort 70 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 2: of little habits can have a really big impact on 71 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 2: your emotional wellbeing, and we don't necessarily think about those 72 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 2: impacts as often as we should. 73 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: So very true. Okay, so one thing that wildly angers 74 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: me very fast. I am a highly sensitive person, so 75 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: that is one piece of it. The other pieces. I 76 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: grew up in a very very very loud, reachful, alcoholic, 77 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: drug addicted family system. So my dad was explosive and quickly, 78 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: like you couldn't predict it, right, So for me, loud 79 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: noises really trigger me fast, which I hate to admit 80 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: out loud, but it's just true. And then I also 81 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: have three I also have three kids and a husband 82 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: that's conference constantly on conference calls on speakerphone, so I 83 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: feel like mine. So what I've created in my home 84 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: is a perfect storm for someone like me with my 85 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,359 Speaker 1: nervous system responses. And I've done Jenna and I go 86 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: to the same therapist. We have a wonderful therapist. I've 87 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 1: done EMDR. But I can still feel it, like it 88 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: comes up through my back and neck when the loud 89 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: noises happen, and I can feel the anger. So other 90 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: than ordering your book, which I did do this morning, 91 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: really grateful for you. I want to know, like, what 92 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: are some Is there like a go to motto? Is 93 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: there something that I can say to myself? I mean, 94 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: I'm doing all the work around these situations, but when 95 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: those situations happen, I feel like I'm more reactive than 96 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 1: I should be. And besides guzzling gallon of water at 97 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: that time, which would actually help me sell my words 98 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 1: and that idea cool. 99 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, So what I love about what you just 100 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 2: described is the fact that you recognize that about yourself. 101 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 2: And it sounds like you've done a lot of work 102 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 2: to get to a point where you understand where that 103 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 2: comes from, because that is such an important part of 104 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 2: understanding our anger response and catching ourselves in those moments 105 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 2: and to be able to say to ourselves or to recognize, Okay, 106 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:37,919 Speaker 2: this is a particularly triggering event for me because of 107 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: this history. My personal version of that is that I 108 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 2: really struggle in any circumstance where I feel like I 109 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 2: am a burden to someone, where I'm like in someone's 110 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 2: way or slowing people down or interfering in some way. 111 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 2: And what I found I have two kids, and what 112 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 2: I've found is that I was oftentimes putting that pressure 113 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 2: on them in some of those moments where it's like 114 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 2: we're in the school drop offline and they're taking a 115 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 2: little bit of time, and I'm starting to get unusually 116 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 2: anxious about it because there's cars behind me and I 117 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 2: feel like I'm in that way or whatever, and so 118 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 2: I'm passing that anxiety onto them. What helped me start 119 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 2: to once I recognize that pattern, it helped me learn 120 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 2: to catch myself in those moments and saying I am 121 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 2: having an unusual reaction to this because of that history, 122 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 2: and so being able to tell yourself in that moment 123 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 2: that you know, I'm having an unusual reaction to this 124 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 2: because and it's it's not it's not really an unwarranted reaction, 125 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:45,799 Speaker 2: and it's not it's coming from a really normal, healthy place. 126 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 2: It was a protective measure at one point, but I'm 127 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 2: having this sort of, uh, maybe outsize reaction to this. 128 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 2: Being able to tell yourself that in the moment, and 129 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 2: I think you hit the nail red in the head. 130 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 2: Is having a phrase maybe or a statement that you 131 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 2: can tell yourself that feels consistent with who you want 132 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 2: to be in those moments can be a way of 133 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 2: helping you deal with it so that along with continuing 134 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 2: to take care of yourself and so that you're feeling 135 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 2: is regulated as possible when you're in those moments along 136 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 2: with and this is the part that's really really hard, 137 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 2: and I think sometimes listeners don't necessarily want to hear 138 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 2: a lot of practice. That just takes time, you know. 139 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 2: And so I'm fifty years old, right, I learned I 140 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 2: spent probably forty five years of my life developing that pattern. 141 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,119 Speaker 2: I'm not going to just be able to undo it 142 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 2: immediately just because I want to or because I recognize it. 143 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 2: It takes time for me to start to undo those things. 144 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 2: And that's why that's ultimately how we get there is 145 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 2: by just continuing to practice in those moments, recognizing that 146 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 2: sometimes we're just not going to get there, we're going 147 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 2: to have that outside reaction, and then trying to and 148 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 2: this is actually my mantra in those moments, is to 149 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 2: try and do the next right thing. 150 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: I wonder too, I think what I like also laced 151 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: and kind of like threaded through what you're saying is 152 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: that there is hope for us to change a bit, 153 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: because I think the vast majority of people that listen 154 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: to this podcast specifically know that we're going to talk 155 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: to people like you that can help aid us in 156 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: being better people or being better versions of ourselves at least. 157 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: So I like that there's this idea of hope that 158 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 1: you kind of lend to us, that we can change patterns, 159 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: because you know, I think that we are in a 160 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: really great generation, like these forties and fifties age group 161 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: of people wanting to change for the better for their 162 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: family history and everything. So in the I think in 163 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: the book, I don't know because I don't have it yet, sorry, 164 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: just ordered, But had you talked about five stages of it? 165 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: Is it working through anger or identifying anger? There's one 166 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: specific that I really want to know about, which was 167 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 1: the appraisal. So can you walk us through kind of 168 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 1: like obviously high level, not enough that we don't want 169 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 1: to go buy the book, but just enough to give 170 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: us a little hope for these forties fifties trying to 171 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: rewrite history. 172 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think a lot of the times 173 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 2: what happens is when we get angry, we think of 174 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 2: it as being like caused purely by this external thing. Right, 175 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 2: something happens to us and then we say, and it 176 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 2: made me mad? Right, or I got mad because and 177 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 2: what oftentimes is I mean that that can happen. There 178 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 2: are some provocations, some things that happen to us that 179 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 2: are so inherently anger provoking that that it is a 180 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 2: pretty direct path. But a lot of times it was 181 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 2: actually going on is we're interpreting whatever that event is 182 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 2: in a particular way, or we're appraising it in a 183 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 2: particular way. And so and we do that by based 184 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 2: on our sort of life experiences, based on our understanding 185 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 2: of the people involved. We make interpretations. And sometimes those 186 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 2: interpretations are exactly right, and sometimes they are just filtered 187 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 2: through whatever lens we're seeing the world. And so when 188 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 2: you know, when you talk about loud noises as being 189 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 2: a trigger, like when that happens, right, you're interpreting that 190 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 2: as a threat in some way, right, based on those 191 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 2: probably those those lived experiences, And the consequence of that 192 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 2: is that you might interpret that a little bit differently 193 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 2: than I would interpret the same the same sort of noise. 194 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 2: So a big piece of this, and this is where 195 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 2: that I think that hope comes through, is that we 196 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 2: can and we can ultimately learn to appraise those things differently. 197 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 2: We can learn to interpret those things differently, and we 198 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 2: can do this in some small ways. We can also 199 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, to use the example I mentioned 200 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 2: earlier that, like, sometimes my frustration with my kids when 201 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 2: we were trying to get out the door or whatever, 202 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 2: one of the things I realized is, I said, you know, 203 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,079 Speaker 2: by by getting frustrated, what I am really telling myself 204 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 2: is that getting in the car thirty seconds faster is 205 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 2: more important than me having a healthy, fun, nice morning 206 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 2: with my kids. 207 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah wow wow Yeah. 208 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 2: And once I made that connection in my head, it 209 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 2: just reshaped everything. I just stopped caring about getting in 210 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 2: the car faster, and I started thinking, well, let's just 211 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 2: have fun as we get out the door, and I'm 212 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 2: still going to get to work, they're still going to 213 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 2: get to school, and we're going to have fun doing it. 214 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 2: And so trying to find those reframes can be a 215 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 2: really valuable way to manage our frustration. 216 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no worse feeling when you get frustrated that 217 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: you drop them off and you're like, why did I 218 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 1: do that? And then you feel guilty the entire day 219 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: until you know the bus comes and you're like, hey, 220 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, sorry, please love me. Yeah, And it's just 221 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: it's the worst feeling because we know better, but sometimes 222 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,959 Speaker 1: all the stresses from everything and then our own childhood 223 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: trauma rap just takes it over. And I think that's 224 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: the hardest piece. And that's where I've had to, you know, 225 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: take a step back and with my work too, because 226 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,959 Speaker 1: I used to be very reactive, and so now I 227 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: take a lot more pauses with things and even relationally too. 228 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 1: Where I would fight back, I'm just kind of like, okay, 229 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: and then I'll walk away, which is not like me 230 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: because a lot of times I'm like, let's go, let's 231 00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: you know, but nothing ever gets resolved that way ever, 232 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: And then I say things I don't want to that 233 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 1: I don't mean, you know. 234 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think for me and for a lot 235 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 2: of people I talk to sometimes that comes from a 236 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 2: place of some defensiveness in those interactions. It's like, hey, 237 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 2: I'm this person did or said something I don't like, 238 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 2: and now it kind of hit me to my core, 239 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 2: and so I'm fighting back a little bit. I see 240 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 2: this when I engage with people online all the time. 241 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 2: They clearly get defensive about some of the things that 242 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 2: I post or share. And one of the things I 243 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 2: was so pleased. The other day I got a comment 244 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 2: from someone. All I did was post the results of 245 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 2: a study on Instagram, and I got a lot of 246 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 2: pushback from a lot of people. And then one person 247 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 2: commented and said, you know, I like to take a 248 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 2: moment to imagine if I were in this study, how 249 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 2: would I have reacted? And it was such a just 250 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 2: a nice way of thinking about it about like, Okay, 251 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 2: so this person's really reflecting on what these results mean 252 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 2: to them and what they mean in their life, and 253 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 2: they're approaching this with some curiosity instead of that that defensiveness. 254 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 2: And I do think that that curiosity is a good 255 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 2: way to sometimes a praise things to think about, Okay, 256 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 2: so why am I reacting this way? Why did they 257 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 2: say what they said? Why did they why did this happen? 258 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 2: And to start asking more questions, not just of other people, 259 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 2: but of ourselves in those moments can make a big difference. 260 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: I think it's ironic that people get angry on an anger. 261 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: Anger kind of proves the point. I'm like, guys, this 262 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: is kind of like, thank you for proving my point exactly. 263 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: And when you have those conversations, because you know, people 264 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: will be very can be very mean and defensive. But well, 265 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: then you actually have a conversation. You have them a 266 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: lot more in common than you think too, and a 267 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: lot of things get wires crossed. But is there because 268 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: I still think, and maybe this is totally wrong, but 269 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: is there a healthy a too? 270 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 2: M Yeah, absolutely. I think that's one of the one 271 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 2: of the misunderstandings when it comes to anger, just emotions 272 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 2: in general, is that we tend to think of them 273 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 2: as either like healthy or unhealthy, depending on the emotions. 274 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: Like healthy is like you don't have anger and you 275 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: need to be calm. But it's like I make up 276 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: that I think it's okay to have anger at times. 277 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, Anger is it exists in us to alert 278 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 2: us to injustice. It's one of the ways that our 279 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 2: brain tells us that we may have been wronged, and 280 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 2: then it does even more than that, it energizes us 281 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 2: to confront that injustice. So it gives us the motivation 282 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 2: to go out and do something about the way in 283 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 2: which we've been wronged. And that's where that curiosity piece 284 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 2: comes in though, is that I do think if there's 285 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 2: a mistake people make, it's not unpacking enough why they 286 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 2: are angry. In a particular way, And so if they 287 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 2: can just take a moment to try and better understand 288 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 2: their own anger, where it's coming from, if it is 289 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 2: in this case healthy, if it is fair and reasonable, 290 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 2: and then think about okay, so what do I do 291 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 2: with it? Well, what is the next step? What do 292 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 2: I channel this into? How do I solve this problem? 293 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 2: How do I communicate to the person who may have 294 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 2: wronged me? Is there nothing I can do to solve 295 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 2: this problem? In which case, okay, then I've got to 296 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 2: come up with some other outlets or avenues for it. 297 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 2: But absolutely, I think anger is a good, healthy, powerful 298 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 2: force in our lives. 299 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: What is one of your biggest tips in relational when 300 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: you're going at it with your partner, husband, wife, like, 301 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: what is one of your biggest tools and tips that 302 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: you use to diffuse the situation? Yeah? 303 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 2: I think it is trying when you can to ask questions, 304 00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: especially questions that are going to not lead to to offensiveness. 305 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 2: So to take a moment and to say, hey, I 306 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 2: understand you're feeling, However, right now, can you tell me 307 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 2: more about what I might have done or what happened 308 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,880 Speaker 2: that led to this? That having those kinds of of 309 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 2: questions to try and get on the same side, because 310 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 2: I think a lot of times when there's conflict, we 311 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 2: we we slip into self protection mode. 312 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,400 Speaker 1: Right away and defense for sure. 313 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that self protection mode ends up. I think 314 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 2: we even do some things in those moments that that 315 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 2: exacerbate the problem, where we will we take little jabs, 316 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 2: right we say little sort of snarky things that that 317 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 2: only interfere with the with the resolution. And so I 318 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 2: think trying to in those moments say Okay, I'm not 319 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 2: going to do anything that escalates things. I'm actually going 320 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 2: to listen for a long time to try and understand. 321 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 2: I'm going to ask questions. I'm going to encourage them 322 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 2: to share their feelings, and then at a certain point 323 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 2: I'm going to try and get on the same side 324 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 2: so we can work through whatever. The conflict is. 325 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: So hard in the moment though, I was like, guilty 326 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: as charged as he's saying it, do tiny jabs. I'm like, 327 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about, doctor, and I 328 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: can't make eye contact with you. Do you feel like 329 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: there is I know there's like a lot of theories 330 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 1: that the anger is actually rooted in sadness. How true. 331 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: Do you think that is or do you think there 332 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: are two separate entities. 333 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 2: For the most part, I think they're two separate entities, 334 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 2: but I think that they can be rooted in one another, 335 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 2: I think ultimately, and I think the important word there 336 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 2: is they can be right, not that they always are, 337 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 2: but that I think there are times where at the 338 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 2: core of your anger is some hurt, some disappointment, some jealousy, 339 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 2: you know, because a lot of times where your anger 340 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:07,199 Speaker 2: comes from is, you know, not getting what you wanted. 341 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 2: You know, I wanted a thing and I didn't get it, 342 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 2: And it makes sense that a lot of emotions would 343 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 2: come from that. Some fear that you might never get it, 344 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 2: some some sadness that you didn't get it, and so 345 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 2: I think all of those things, you know. So for 346 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 2: the record, I love the movie inside Out. I think 347 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 2: it's fantasy good. 348 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: Inside Out too too, just like just I mean, I'm 349 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 1: bawling from like what anxiety. I'm like you, I'm like, 350 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: I see you anxiety. I gotta let go. 351 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 2: My kids have aged with that movie too, So when 352 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 2: inside Out two came out, like my kids were also 353 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,360 Speaker 2: about that age, I was like, all right, so here, 354 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 2: I am just seeing it all. Yeah. So I love 355 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 2: those movies, and I love the idea, and I love 356 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,439 Speaker 2: it as a metaphor for teaching people about emotions. I 357 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,919 Speaker 2: think it's really really valuable that way. And one of 358 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 2: the things I like about it though, is that they 359 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:03,679 Speaker 2: hit a point, especially in that first one, where they 360 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 2: acknowledge that the same thing can trigger lots of feelings, 361 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 2: and that the same event can can can make you 362 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 2: not just happy, but also a little bit sad, and 363 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 2: that you can even reflect back on some of those 364 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 2: things and they can mean something different twenty years later 365 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 2: than they meant to you at the time. And even 366 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 2: though I and a lot of people tend to talk 367 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 2: about emotions as these distinct things, in reality, they don't 368 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 2: exist that way. 369 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: They exist. 370 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 2: They come together. You can feel happy and sad about 371 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 2: the same event. You can feel angry and scared about 372 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 2: the same event. 373 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: Right, Oh my goodness, Well, we really appreciate you coming on. Everyone, 374 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 1: go get emotion hacks fifty ways to feel better fast, 375 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: doctor Martin, Thank you so much for coming on. Yeah, 376 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: where can our listeners find you? Obviously on Instagram? 377 00:20:54,440 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 2: Yep, I am at anger professor on Instagram and social media. 378 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 2: But I do most of my work on Instagram, and 379 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 2: then I have a website called Alldarage Science dot com 380 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 2: so they can find me there. 381 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 1: Okay, wonderful, We will follow along. Thank you so much 382 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 1: for coming on. 383 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me.