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Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production I heart radio.

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Speaker 1: They come back and their eyes are kind of wide.

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Speaker 1: We put in the tape casette and said, you're not

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Speaker 1: gonna believe this. And there is Richard Nixon standing in

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Speaker 1: his office next to the American flag, with a flag

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Speaker 1: at his lapel, and that Nicksonian way. He says, I've

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Speaker 1: always believed that Tom Broco was a man of very

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Speaker 1: good judgment, very good judgment. Never showed better judgments than

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Speaker 1: when he turned down my offer to be my press secretary.

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Speaker 1: I'm Bob Pittman. Welcome to Math and Magic. Stories from

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Speaker 1: the Frontiers and Marketing. We explore the analytical and creative

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Speaker 1: side of marketing, from marketers to founders to media types.

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Speaker 1: Since Theday, we have one of America's best known observers

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Speaker 1: of all trends of last fifty years, Tom Broke. I

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Speaker 1: met Tom in the late seventies, I would say radio programmer,

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Speaker 1: and Thom was the host of the Today Show. He

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Speaker 1: was the coolest, tipest guy I knew, and I benefited

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Speaker 1: from his insights ever since, including this fabulous perch when

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Speaker 1: he was the anchor of the nightly news on NBC.

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Speaker 1: Great to have you with us today? Tom, great to

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Speaker 1: be here. I love the whole concept of the reinvention

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Speaker 1: of radio in which you're in the sick of it.

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Speaker 1: And the podcast phenomenon is really something that is I

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Speaker 1: didn't see coming. When I was on my way over here.

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Speaker 1: My secretary said, I only listen to podcasts anymore. It's amazing,

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Speaker 1: isn't it. We're gonna get into some stories, but first

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Speaker 1: I want to do you in sixty seconds. This is

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Speaker 1: gonna be lightning round style. It's quick, easy. Give us

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Speaker 1: the first thing that comes to your mind. Do you

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Speaker 1: prefer dogs or cats? Oh? Dogs, We've had both. But

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm owned by dog. We've got two labs, and

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Speaker 1: you know they're they're at six thirty in the morning

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Speaker 1: putting their nose in my face and saying, come on, buddy,

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Speaker 1: it's time to go out. And there I am. I'm husty. Okay.

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Speaker 1: Beatles are rolling stones the stone. I have a great

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Speaker 1: story about them, and I've actually talked to Mick about this.

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Speaker 1: I was working in Omaha and it must have been

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Speaker 1: six four. I was going to work on a Saturday morning,

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Speaker 1: and Omaha has a big spot out in midwestern city

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Speaker 1: and there was a limousine, big stretch. We don't see those.

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Speaker 1: At ten o'clock in the morning, we're at a four

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Speaker 1: way stop and four very shaggy heads stuck their heads

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Speaker 1: out of this limousine. Oh my god, who are those guys?

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Speaker 1: And then I realized that they were the Rolling Stones.

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Speaker 1: They had a big townsen that night in Omaha, and

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Speaker 1: I later said that Mick I was working in Omaha

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Speaker 1: four He said, oh, yeah, we played it was a

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Speaker 1: barn and I said, it really was a barn. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's go to movies. Network or anchor Man. Network is

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Speaker 1: a very important broadcast. They did a lot of the

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Speaker 1: research at our place, which make NBC happy when they

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Speaker 1: saw it on the screen. But I do think that

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Speaker 1: Network is an important film So wine or tequila, I'm

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Speaker 1: talking to a tequila man. Come on. The fact is

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Speaker 1: I like your tequila. I like it. I'm an Asian

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Speaker 1: staging life and I want to have something neat and

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Speaker 1: cold and not a lot of it. Frankly, Okay, so

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Speaker 1: we're gonna pick places Montana, New York, of Florida. That's impossible.

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Speaker 1: I mean they all have different appeals to me. I

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Speaker 1: couldn't live anywhere else except to York. So let's go

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Speaker 1: to the beginning. Out west. I did a motorcycle trip

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Speaker 1: across America with a group of bikers in I told

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Speaker 1: you about it, and you said, you've got to stop.

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Speaker 1: Only one suggestion yanked in South Dakota. Clearly, your hometown

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Speaker 1: was very important to you, and you talk a lot

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Speaker 1: about your early family life there. Can you give us

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Speaker 1: just like a second on it and then tell us

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Speaker 1: what lessons you took away from that that you've used

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Speaker 1: your whole life. Although towns of that size it was

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Speaker 1: about nine thousand at that point, but they had everything

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Speaker 1: they had to colleges. They had a very very good

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Speaker 1: public high school and a public school system because they

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Speaker 1: made a huge investment in it. And you were raised

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Speaker 1: not just by your family, but you were raised by

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Speaker 1: the community, and there was an enormous community provide if

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Speaker 1: you did something. When I was a junior in high school,

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Speaker 1: for example, I was invited to be on a television

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Speaker 1: question show here in New York. There wasn't a television

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Speaker 1: set at Yankton that was not tuned too for the

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Speaker 1: money that night because Tom Brokaw was on, did you win? Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we won six bucks. Which that was a change. You

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Speaker 1: came to New York. What else had you seen in

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Speaker 1: the bigger world? Or was the world really South Dakota

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Speaker 1: for you? Growing up, I always was looking over the horizon.

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Speaker 1: I knew there was life out there that I wanted

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Speaker 1: to be a part of. Radio for me was my

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Speaker 1: connection to the wider world. I thought maybe I could

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Speaker 1: do something like that. And you actually were on the

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Speaker 1: radio I was. I was fifteen years old. I moved

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Speaker 1: to this town. Why they hired me right away, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I guess I had a reputation of being

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Speaker 1: a gabby kid. But I moved to Yankton in the

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Speaker 1: summer of nineteen By the following nineteen fifty five, I

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Speaker 1: was playing football and basketball, and at seven o'clock at night,

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Speaker 1: I was doing a teenage rock and roll show. And

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Speaker 1: those were the great days, you know. I was a

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Speaker 1: big fan of early rock and roll, Elvis and Jerry

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Speaker 1: Louy and everybody. It was two hundred fifty one station

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Speaker 1: got maybe to the end of Main Street, but for me,

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Speaker 1: it was a very big deal. And you went off

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Speaker 1: the air at what time went off here at midnight?

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Speaker 1: But I didn't stay until midnight. I was on from

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Speaker 1: seven until eight, and then at the summertime they hired

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Speaker 1: me as a vacation replacement. So it was a great deal.

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Speaker 1: All my other friends were out there breaking their backs

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Speaker 1: and working on highway construction projects. I was sitting in

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Speaker 1: an air condition studio playing songs for girls that I

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Speaker 1: wanted to meet. You know, so you met Meredith your

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Speaker 1: wife there. I met Merith. Tell us the story. She

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Speaker 1: was the brightest young woman in town and absolutely dropped

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Speaker 1: beautiful from the first family of Yanked and her dad

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Speaker 1: was a doctor, and her mother built a school library.

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Speaker 1: And she was very, very disciplined, which is part of

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Speaker 1: the reason that we still and still is, and so

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Speaker 1: we were great pals, but we didn't ever date. In

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Speaker 1: high school, she was a cheerleader and I was playing basketball.

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Speaker 1: We're going to the state basketball tournament. And she gave

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Speaker 1: me a Christmas gift, which was a sailor's cap because

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Speaker 1: I had a girl in every report. She had me

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Speaker 1: figured out early on, I went through a role kind

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Speaker 1: of off the cliff kind of time. I dropped out

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Speaker 1: of two colleges. I didn't know what I was gonna

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Speaker 1: do with my life, and Marath wrote me the harshest

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Speaker 1: letter I've ever received, saying, if you don't get your

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Speaker 1: act together, I never wanted to talk to you again.

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Speaker 1: We weren't even dating at that point. You're disappointed, your parents,

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Speaker 1: the rest of us can't figure out what you're up to.

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Speaker 1: There's a big wake up call. So I kind of

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Speaker 1: got my act together, and she came to me and said,

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Speaker 1: maybe I went too far. I said no, I had

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Speaker 1: it coming. And a year later, to the surprise of

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Speaker 1: everyone hours to go to we got married years ago.

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Speaker 1: That's a pretty good story. Yeah, you went through college

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Speaker 1: and you got into TV. How did that happen? I

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Speaker 1: was working in a television station at Seux City Aisle

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Speaker 1: when I was still a junior in college and I

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Speaker 1: could commute. He I made seventy five bucks a week,

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Speaker 1: or six days a week. I was a booth announcer

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Speaker 1: into the weekend weather and whatever else. Tell people what

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Speaker 1: a booth announcer is. You know, you had a live

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Speaker 1: announcers ten pm kt I V Channel four su City,

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Speaker 1: next up Dave Shu Maysher and the ten o'clock news.

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Speaker 1: When I did the weather, the news block led with

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Speaker 1: the weather. It was the most important thing in the Midwest,

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Speaker 1: and the weather was brought to you by the cab corn.

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Speaker 1: And so I would do the weather, and then I

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Speaker 1: would take a break and I would reach down, I

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Speaker 1: pull out an ear of corn out of the set

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Speaker 1: and say, notice these even yellow colonels. This is like

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Speaker 1: the cab corn product. You don't see that another quarter.

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Speaker 1: I had no idea what I was talking about. There

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Speaker 1: will be an included front, there will be a little

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Speaker 1: pursure system. What the hell does that mean? You go

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Speaker 1: through your career there you wind up in Omaha. How

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Speaker 1: do you make the jump? A friend of mine was

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Speaker 1: working in Sioux City and he had come out of Northwestern.

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Speaker 1: He was obviously destined for bigger things. He ended up

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Speaker 1: at CBS. David shu Maysher was his name, and he said,

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Speaker 1: you're getting married. You got a job? I said no,

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Speaker 1: I thought I had one, But he said, I think

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Speaker 1: it's an opening in Omaha. Let me call him. So

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Speaker 1: I went down to Omaha and I arrived out of

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Speaker 1: nowhere and it was a very serious news station, and

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Speaker 1: the news director took me out to lunch and we

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Speaker 1: started talking politics, and at the end of like she said,

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Speaker 1: I've never had anybody work for me, who knows as

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Speaker 1: much about politics as you do. We could use you.

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Speaker 1: I'll pay you ninety hours a week and I said,

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Speaker 1: I have to have a hundred. He said, you beg

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Speaker 1: for this job, not even want a ten dollar raise.

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Speaker 1: I said, I'm marrying the daughter of a doctor. I

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Speaker 1: have to be able to say I have a three

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Speaker 1: figure salary. Said you'll never get a raise, but I'll

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Speaker 1: start good to hundred, and he kept his promise. I

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Speaker 1: didn't many were there. I was there two and a

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Speaker 1: half and I thought I would never get out. I

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Speaker 1: was working six days a week, signing on the station

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Speaker 1: at six and the morning, working till one o'clock in

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Speaker 1: the afternoon. Mary's was teaching school and making more money

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Speaker 1: than I was. And one night, out of nowhere, I

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Speaker 1: got a call from the premier NBC of Philly in

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Speaker 1: America at the time, WUSB in Atlanta, Georgia. It was

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Speaker 1: a cock broadcasting station. It was the middle of the

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Speaker 1: civil rights movement, was a big, distinguished station in the

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Speaker 1: heart of the South. I said, who is this. It

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Speaker 1: was the station and manager and I said, how do

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Speaker 1: you hear about me? He said, I have friends in

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Speaker 1: the Midwest. I asked him to look around, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of them talk to me about you can you

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Speaker 1: come down and we'll take a lot. I was twenty

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Speaker 1: five years old, and I said, if I fly out

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Speaker 1: of here and my station manager he'll fire me, I

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Speaker 1: have to sneak out on the weekend, which I did,

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Speaker 1: and I got off the plane in an early spring

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Speaker 1: day in Atlanta. I left a snowstorm behind an Omaha

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Speaker 1: and the Magnolias were in bloom and the station was

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Speaker 1: in a any bellum mansion and sitting on the end

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Speaker 1: of Peachtree Street. And if I don't get this job,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna kill myself. And by the end of the

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Speaker 1: weekend they said we'd like you to be our eleven

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Speaker 1: o'clock news acre. I couldn't believe it. I went back

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Speaker 1: to omahall told the trailer full stuff down to Omaha

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Speaker 1: and went to work right away, and more than a

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Speaker 1: hundred dollars a week, I mean more huns. They tripled

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Speaker 1: my salary, and that was a big deal. At night

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Speaker 1: at eleven thirty, I was often called by the NBC

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Speaker 1: news desk, Can you get to Selma, Can you get

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Speaker 1: to Montgomery? Can you get to Americas? There was all

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Speaker 1: hell bre can listen. So I would jump on a

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Speaker 1: charter and run down to those places until they could

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Speaker 1: get their NBC correspondence there. And I was on the

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Speaker 1: Today Show, It was on a lot of radio, and

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Speaker 1: I was at the time of my life. Damner got

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Speaker 1: killed a couple of times. The sheriff pointed a shotgun

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Speaker 1: at me. He said, if you don't get out of town,

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Speaker 1: I got a hair trigger here. And then I was

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Speaker 1: grabbed by a bunch of guys who wanted to put

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Speaker 1: me in the trunk of a car and drive me away,

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Speaker 1: and somebody intervene. Anyhow, six months later after I got there,

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Speaker 1: NBC came and said, we want you to come to

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Speaker 1: work for us. Take you to California, and we'll triple

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Speaker 1: the salary you're getting here, which has just been troubled.

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Speaker 1: It was unbelievable. And the station, as you're in Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: he had a big relationship with the NBC, and he said,

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Speaker 1: we just got this guy. They said, you're not gonna

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Speaker 1: be all hang on to him. And he came to

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Speaker 1: me and he said, they're right, take the opportunity and

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Speaker 1: go with our blessing. Mareth was pregnant. We waited as

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Speaker 1: the baby was born, moved to California, and I got

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Speaker 1: there ahead of our nineteen six in the spring, and

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Speaker 1: the genius at the news tests said, we hear you

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Speaker 1: know a lot about politics. So there's this actor run

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Speaker 1: for governor. We don't think he's going anywhere. Get on

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Speaker 1: the bus with Ronald Reagan. So that was my first

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Speaker 1: introduction to California politics. I was on the bus with Ronald,

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Speaker 1: riding around with him. Were you a reporter. I was

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Speaker 1: a reporter, and I did the Sunday night news and

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Speaker 1: I filled in as an anchor, you know, when somebody

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Speaker 1: was off. I would do that. Sometimes I would arrive

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Speaker 1: at the station at seven thirty in the morning and

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Speaker 1: they hand me a plane ticket and I jumped on

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Speaker 1: a plane and fly tot Berkeley, California, and cover of

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Speaker 1: the riots and Berkeley, get on the four o'clock plane

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Speaker 1: and fly back again. And then, because I did have

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Speaker 1: this reputation politics, I would brief David Brinkley when he

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Speaker 1: would come out to do a story about California politics

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Speaker 1: or Sandy Matt Oaker or other people. So tell us

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Speaker 1: a little bit about that period. The country is going

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Speaker 1: through upheaval. You have both the sort of glitzy go

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Speaker 1: go sixties, which also had this other almost revolution going on.

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Speaker 1: It was a cultural revolution, but people forget how much

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Speaker 1: violence there was as well. We had wats blow up

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Speaker 1: at that time, and in northern California, Berkeley was seven

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Speaker 1: a riot. Was not university anymore. Reagan became governor. He

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Speaker 1: had a reputation as a law and order guy, but

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Speaker 1: he had to do some things to get control of

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Speaker 1: the institutions, which he did quite well. Frankly, he was

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Speaker 1: the governor, but he also had Buff Chandler, who published

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Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Times at paul from Paula Hale, a

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Speaker 1: big oil company, Norton Simon, the great art collector, and industrialists.

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Speaker 1: They were on the board of regions. So I was

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Speaker 1: exposed at that point to this great group of people

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Speaker 1: and saw how they acted in the best interests of

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Speaker 1: the state. And one of the regions was the president

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Speaker 1: of the U. C. L A Alumni Association, Bob Holdenman.

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Speaker 1: The first time I ever met him was at a

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Speaker 1: regent's meeting, and he was actually a wholly different person

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Speaker 1: that he became. He kind of had a good sense

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Speaker 1: of humor. If I had questions about the Republican Party.

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Speaker 1: I could pick up the phone and call me to

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Speaker 1: give me the straight answer. Then he went off to

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Speaker 1: work for Nixon and he was a different character. He

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Speaker 1: really had become the tough cop. He had no sense

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Speaker 1: of humor about anything. And then he tried to hire

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Speaker 1: him to be press secretary. Can work for Nixon? Was that?

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Speaker 1: That was nineteen sixty eight. They were just an office

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Speaker 1: and wasn't working out with Ron, I would have been

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Speaker 1: killed in Washington. I got to know the Washington crowd.

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Speaker 1: They were tough. And this kid coming in from California,

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Speaker 1: I was twenty eight. If you think they were, they

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Speaker 1: had been twice as tough on me, frankly, and I

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Speaker 1: knew better. And I said no, and I swore him

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Speaker 1: to secrecy. I said, no one can know about this spot.

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Speaker 1: I want to be an NBC News correspont. I want

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Speaker 1: to go to Washington, but on my terms, and he

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Speaker 1: honored that. Now I turned fifty, and they sent camera

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Speaker 1: crews around. This is later, obviously, and they come back

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Speaker 1: and their eyes are kind of wide. We put in

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Speaker 1: the tape causette and I said, you're not gonna believe this,

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Speaker 1: And there is Richard Nixon standing in his office next

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Speaker 1: to the American flag, with a flag at his lapel,

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Speaker 1: and that Nicksonian way. He says, I've always believed that

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Speaker 1: Tom Broco was a man of very good judgment, very

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Speaker 1: good judgment. Never showed better judgment than when he turned

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Speaker 1: down my offer to be my press secretary. Remember, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: he remembered. Yeah, So you arrived in Washington summer of

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Speaker 1: seventies three. Watergate was under way of point, and I

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Speaker 1: didn't quite know what I was in for. I had

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Speaker 1: a pedal very hard. I was keeping up, but at

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Speaker 1: the same time there was still little skepticism about who's

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Speaker 1: this guy from California? What does he know? And I

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Speaker 1: was helped by guys like Bob Novak, the old newspaper guy,

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Speaker 1: because he would come out. I would brief him on

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Speaker 1: California politics and Johnny Apple from the New York Times

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Speaker 1: and say, oh, wait a minute, this guy knows what

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Speaker 1: he's doing. So I was taken in frankly by some

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Speaker 1: of the olders, and I once said that l Hague,

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Speaker 1: he said, how are you doing? I said, It's like

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Speaker 1: skiing an avalanche. I just just keeping going all day long,

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Speaker 1: because something was happening every day in the fall of

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Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies three, Nixon was under sea that one

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Speaker 1: of the tapes, a special prosecutor was after him, and

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Speaker 1: Syria and Egypt invaded Israel, and Israel was not prepared

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Speaker 1: and they were about to go down, and they called

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Speaker 1: out s os to Nixon, and Nixon called the Pentagon

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Speaker 1: and said, send every goddamn thing we've got to Israel

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Speaker 1: and saved Israel. It was a stimulating time. We went

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Speaker 1: to Russia once and the least he was all over

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Speaker 1: the country, proving that he was told at the President

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Speaker 1: United States, my feet really didn't touch the ground for

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Speaker 1: and you traveled with him, And had you seen the

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Speaker 1: world before then? I had. I've been in Europe a

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Speaker 1: couple of times, but I really didn't see it as

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Speaker 1: much as I was beginning to see it. One of

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Speaker 1: my favorite moments was Pompido died and we were in

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Speaker 1: Paris and I was a pool reporter. So I was

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Speaker 1: at Notre Dame and we had bad seats and I

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Speaker 1: saw a young priest and I went over to him

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Speaker 1: and I said speaking. She said, yes, I know who

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Speaker 1: you are, Mr Broke. I said, I want to be

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Speaker 1: up there, and I pointed to the ceiling. He said,

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Speaker 1: there's a backstaircase. We may run into quast motto, but

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Speaker 1: he said, we'll go. We walked all the way up there,

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Speaker 1: and I stood on a very narrow pathway at the

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Speaker 1: top of Notre Dame, looking down on this gathering of

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Speaker 1: everybody in the world coming in for Pompido's fineral hut.

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Speaker 1: This is better than being in high school. And Yankton

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Speaker 1: talk about Watergate and this period, what impact it had

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Speaker 1: on journalism, all the president's men, big book sort of

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Speaker 1: open people's eyes to was going on. What was the

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Speaker 1: sea change? Washington journalism was reinvented by Bob and Carl. Frankly,

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Speaker 1: you know what they did. It was treat this like

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Speaker 1: a cop show. We're gonna go find out what happened.

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Speaker 1: The Washington press establishment was pretty much the establishment. They

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Speaker 1: were buddy buddy with everybody that they knew in the

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Speaker 1: White House and they knew in Congress. And a few

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Speaker 1: things would break. Who but Bomb and Carl over two

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Speaker 1: rookies who went out and covered Watergate from the ground up.

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Speaker 1: Were they really rookies? Oh yeah, they were really rookies.

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Speaker 1: Bob had been covering the cop beat in Montgomery County.

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Speaker 1: They had parked him way out in Montgomery County, but

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Speaker 1: he was available the day that they were charging the

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Speaker 1: burglars as they had caught, and he grabbed a notebook

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Speaker 1: in the little chiny apartment that he had out in

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Speaker 1: Montgomery County. He ran down to the courthouse in Washington

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Speaker 1: and the first thing he saw was some very well

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Speaker 1: groomed larrior who was defending these guys. You know what's

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Speaker 1: that all about? Who is this guy? Carl was a

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Speaker 1: renegade kid who was a great writer and a stylist,

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Speaker 1: and they worked through the night. They go on, knock

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Speaker 1: on doors. And so what's the lasting legacy on journalism

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Speaker 1: in general that comes from that era? I think in

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Speaker 1: many ways, it made everybody a detective. They could be

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Speaker 1: a nineteen year old starting report and let's say, bake sale, Huh,

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Speaker 1: who paid for those cookies? Who supplied you with that?

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Speaker 1: Everything was suspect. It wouldn't take anything for granted. And

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Speaker 1: now we've got a great generation of very very good journalists.

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Speaker 1: They've grown up wanting to be working journalists. The other

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Speaker 1: legacy of Watergate is that there's always a scandal waiting

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Speaker 1: to be uncovered in the nation's capital, because the stakes

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Speaker 1: are so big. There's an enormous concentration of power there,

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Speaker 1: and somebody wants to take advantage of that in every administration.

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Speaker 1: There hasn't been an administration since I've been covering Washington

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Speaker 1: that hasn't had a scandal of one degree or another.

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Speaker 1: We talked about today many people worried about the world

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Speaker 1: and where we're going. You sort of forget that moment

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Speaker 1: we were worried that we were gonna have a nuclear war.

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Speaker 1: Grouping the war with Russia, politics of oil, give us

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Speaker 1: a little view of what that felt like then and

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Speaker 1: what the view of the future was from that vantage point.

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Speaker 1: At that moment. Well, there was more structure to the

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Speaker 1: international poltical system in those days. The Russians and the

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Speaker 1: United States had a kind of bifurcated relationship. Russia took

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Speaker 1: care of the East, We took care of the West.

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Speaker 1: They had serious talks about nuclear Obviously, Vietnam was a huge,

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Speaker 1: huge part of what was going on. The warmakers in Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. Completely miscalculated the meaning of what Vietnam was,

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Speaker 1: and that was the rise at that point of Southeast

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Speaker 1: Asia and the rise really of the place of China.

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Speaker 1: Nixon understood that he wanted to go to China, it

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Speaker 1: was his idea. To his credit, he got there and

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Speaker 1: he opened relations with China. That was a profound move, frankly,

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Speaker 1: because we then cut out the Russians. We could triangulate.

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Speaker 1: That was critically important. And the Chinese understood the opportunity

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Speaker 1: that he brought to him, and Kissinger was a great

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Speaker 1: facilitator of that as well. And then the world began

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Speaker 1: to change and now it's chump ball. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: West Point tomorrow to talk about this to the new

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Speaker 1: class of cadets. They're going to enter a world in

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Speaker 1: which all the lessons of the past are upper grabs

401
00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,480
Speaker 1: because we don't have a relationship anymore with Western Europe

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Speaker 1: as we wanted to be. Alliance's coming apart and is

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Speaker 1: being driven apart by the President Trump. But also Western

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00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,120
Speaker 1: Europe is not prepared to do what it once did.

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Speaker 1: Poland used to be a great ally after the war

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Speaker 1: with US, and now they're having their own internal feuds.

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Speaker 1: The same thing is going on in Austria. China is

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Speaker 1: a huge threat commercially, economically, culturally to this country. And

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Speaker 1: then you have the other players. The renegades like North Korea,

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Speaker 1: what's going to happen there, and the rise of these

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Speaker 1: other powers that are not part of a larger complex,

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Speaker 1: if you will, they're on their own. One of my

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Speaker 1: oldest friends is one of the leading authorities in the

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Speaker 1: world on nuclear power. He's a Soviet expert, and he's

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Speaker 1: I've ever been more frightened about the proliferation of nuclear weapons.

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Speaker 1: He said, it's too easy to get him anymore, and

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Speaker 1: people have gotten them. So worried more about it today

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Speaker 1: than back then, because then there was a system for

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Speaker 1: dealing was that the Russians had him and we had

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Speaker 1: and we kept track of who else was trying to

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Speaker 1: get him. Just hold on a second, because we've got

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Speaker 1: so much more to talk about. We'll be back after

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Speaker 1: a quick break. Welcome back to Math and Magic. We're

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Speaker 1: here with Tom Brokaw. So you've moved from Washington. You

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Speaker 1: go to the Today Show for a while, and then

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Speaker 1: you jump the nightly news, probably at that time the

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Speaker 1: greatest perch to see what's going on in the world.

428
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 1: You've always had great personal observations. When I would see you,

429
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 1: I would say, Okay, Tom, what really went on? And

430
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 1: you told me the story of talking to Gorbachof and

431
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,800
Speaker 1: Castro comes up. Can you tell us the story? Well,

432
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,640
Speaker 1: Gorbachoff and I had this relationship because I did the

433
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,680
Speaker 1: first and only interview with him at that point that

434
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,919
Speaker 1: any Western or ever done. He thought I was the

435
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,240
Speaker 1: only American encountered. So he came down to Cuba to

436
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 1: tell Cashow, it's over. We're shutting off the spiccott You're

437
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,480
Speaker 1: not getting help from us anymore. We got our own problems.

438
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 1: So Cashrow through this huge reception. Castro was leading him

439
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 1: around the room. I could see that Gorbachof was saying,

440
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,399
Speaker 1: what the hell have I got myself into? Yearned? So

441
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 1: when gorber Shop sees me, he's relieved. He comes running

442
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 1: over to me. Was an interpreter, and we start this

443
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,639
Speaker 1: animated conversation, and all of a sudden, Cashro realizes that

444
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,120
Speaker 1: he's lost the guests, and he comes running over and

445
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,920
Speaker 1: he starts talking in the Sicago Spanish and the interpreters

446
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,719
Speaker 1: keeping up, and he's saying, corp Shof, don't pay any

447
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,639
Speaker 1: attention to broke On and van Rats coming in here,

448
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,400
Speaker 1: don't pay any attention to these guys. They come down

449
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 1: and they interview us, and they interviews for two hours.

450
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 1: They go back to New York and they play it

451
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 1: for twenty seconds, and they mean millions of dollars. We

452
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 1: get nothing from all of us. Gorbach was looking at

453
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,919
Speaker 1: me and rolling his eyes and rolling his eyes, and

454
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 1: but it was a turning moment because the Russians turned

455
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,239
Speaker 1: off the spiccott and the Cubans had to deal with

456
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,680
Speaker 1: it on their own. So he rolled his eyes. Probably

457
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 1: one of the most telling things about what was going

458
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 1: on there. But you really weren't able to talk about

459
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 1: on TV today. You that would be the lead. So

460
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 1: what happened then and today? In terms of how people

461
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 1: cover story, what happened? What happened is a proliferation of outlets.

462
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 1: I mean, what happens that Everything is seven now, so

463
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 1: you gotta fill it up with material. There's too much repetition,

464
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,920
Speaker 1: not enough original reporting, and it's just repeating, repeating, repeating,

465
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,399
Speaker 1: And then you have the ideology of two networks, Fox

466
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 1: and MSNBC going on. But it's mostly just filling things

467
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 1: up and not taking time to be thoughtful. It's tough

468
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 1: for me to watch it sometimes, and I think they

469
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 1: get tired of hearing me. But I have to say

470
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 1: to him, come on, guys. If I'm living in Des

471
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,199
Speaker 1: Moines and I'm looking at you for my news, and

472
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,119
Speaker 1: I leave the house at eight o'clock in the morning

473
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: and I hear what you were reporting. And I come

474
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,439
Speaker 1: home at four o'clock in the afternoon or five, and

475
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 1: I'm hearing the same thing again again again. Give me

476
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 1: something fresh, Take me somewhere or I haven't been in

477
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: the last nine hours. And by the way, the world

478
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 1: exists beyond on the Hudson River and beyond the belt. Boy,

479
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,440
Speaker 1: it's an interesting country out there. Go cover that. Let's

480
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 1: keep going on history the Berlin Wall. I think you

481
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,400
Speaker 1: were the only news anchor to be Did you see

482
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 1: it coming and were you prepared for it? How did

483
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 1: you wind up there? Well, what happened is that we

484
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 1: had a very good guy by named Jerry lamprect To

485
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 1: was our foreigner, and he came to me and he said,

486
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 1: you know, there's not much going on here, and it's

487
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: beginning to percolate in Berlin. Why don't you think about

488
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 1: going over there. We've got nothing to lose. I checked

489
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 1: the airpoints, you can go tomorrow. So the next morning

490
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,880
Speaker 1: I was able to go into East Germany pretty easily,

491
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: for the first time. It didn't stop me at checkpoint Charlie.

492
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:40,639
Speaker 1: They just said okay, and I had to have an

493
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 1: escort with me. East Germany. It was a completely different

494
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: climate than it had been in the past. People were

495
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: wandering around trying to figure out what was going on,

496
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: and it was this enormous line at the gate taking

497
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: in the Czechoslovakia. And so I said, we don't have

498
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: to be on the air live tonight. I just do

499
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 1: some reporting from here, but keeps the satellite for tomorrow night.

500
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,640
Speaker 1: Next day, same thing. At about three o'clock in the afternoon,

501
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: there was a press conference. Mr. Trobowski, who was their

502
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: information chief, who is their propagandists, had this meeting and

503
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 1: the East German journalists by then had been emboldened and

504
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: they were challenging him on everything, but he was holding

505
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 1: him off. And then somebody came in gave him a

506
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 1: slip of paper and he says, oh, the polite Berro

507
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,719
Speaker 1: has decided, so distance of the g R can exit

508
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 1: and re enters through all of the portholes on the wall.

509
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 1: What I had a camera crew that had grown up

510
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 1: in Germany and they looked at me said, my god,

511
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 1: the wall is down. That's what he's saying. The wall

512
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: is down. Everybody was hammering their head and he gets

513
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 1: up and leaves, and I had a pre arranged appointment

514
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,439
Speaker 1: with him up in his office, so I ran up

515
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: there and I said, Mr Trobowski, read that again on

516
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 1: my camera, and he did. And I said, that means

517
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 1: that East German citizens can leave and come back. That

518
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,160
Speaker 1: means the wall is open. Ah, that's what it means.

519
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: And I said, you've spent your life as a communist.

520
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: Is this the end of it? No, he said, we

521
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 1: will retain control. So I went downstairs a bunch of

522
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 1: newspaper men and I said, it's over. He just confirmed

523
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: that the wall is going to be opened. And I

524
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 1: ran back to the office and I said, get the satellite,

525
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 1: make sure it's up. We'll do it at Brandenburg Gate.

526
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: It's now about five o'clock and it's you know, noon here,

527
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: and it was chaos. We go to the Brandenburg Gate

528
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: at about eleven o'clock at night, and Brandenburg Gate is

529
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: a great division between East Germany and West Germany and

530
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 1: it looks out on the East German side, and there

531
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: were a lot of students from West Germany would come

532
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 1: and stood atop the wall at the Brandenburg Gate shouting

533
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: at the East German kids come most us and the

534
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: East German kids didn't know whether they'd be shot or not,

535
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 1: so they were reluctant to do it. And then the

536
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 1: guards got the hoses out and they try to drive

537
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 1: him off. That didn't work. In the middle of all this,

538
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: a guy who had been on the wall was a

539
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: leather jacket on aways. Remember what he looked like, holding

540
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: up his hands. It's back to the East German guards

541
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: who were hosing him, and he wouldn't be moved, and

542
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: he was laughing. So I said Martin Fletcher was our

543
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: correspondent from Middle East wh would come up to help out.

544
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: I said, go over and get that guy. He's the

545
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 1: image of the new Germany and he'll be on the

546
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: cover of Time magazine next week. We're going to interview.

547
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 1: Martin comes back, doubled over and laughter, and I said,

548
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: where is it? He said, well, it's not what we saw.

549
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: I said, what do you mean? He said, he's a drunk.

550
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 1: He's been living over the woods. He has no idea

551
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 1: what's going on. This first shower he's had in two weeks.

552
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 1: And then obviously I remember this well. At six five,

553
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: we got the first footage of one of the gates

554
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:40,919
Speaker 1: being opened, and we put that on the air and

555
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: came on the air. Then I had lived thirty minutes

556
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: of nightly news. Historic moment. How do you deal with

557
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 1: sudden and unexpected disasters? The space shallow Challenger comes to mind.

558
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: We always knew there was a chance that something would

559
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:55,959
Speaker 1: happen with the shuttle, but we were kind of prepared

560
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: for that. The worst one, Bob was n eleven. That

561
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: was Holly on an anticipated. I was at home when

562
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: I got a call that morning of nine eleven and

563
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 1: they said, a small point is at the World Trade Center.

564
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: Maybe you ought to come in. I said, okay, So

565
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: I dashed out onto Park Avenue and I heard sirens.

566
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: They were going screaming across the city, and I thought,

567
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: I wonder if they're going down there in the cabin

568
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 1: turn of the car. Radio Art Athens is a very

569
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: good radio reporter in this town, and he said, an

570
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: airliner at high speed and low altitude just flew over

571
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: Washington Square Park and into one of the towers. Oh

572
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: my god, it's not an accident. So I called Marathon

573
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,120
Speaker 1: Montana woke her up, and I said, I don't want

574
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 1: to talk again, but you better start watching television. Went

575
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 1: right down to the studio and Katie and Matt were

576
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 1: on the air, and Tim was in Washington, and we

577
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: started sharing information and everybody was in very good form.

578
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: And Jim Michaelschowski is our Pentagon correspondent. They said, Michael

579
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: Schefski needs the air right now. So I said, Jim,

580
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: Michael shows gets Pentagon. He said, we just had an

581
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: enormous shuttering of a Pentagon on a huge sound on

582
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: the other side. We think maybe the Pentagon has been hit,

583
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 1: and in fact it was. We had a camera fixed

584
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: on the Twin Trade towers. We saw people jumping. I

585
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: don't even want to repeat it now. I'll never forget

586
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,719
Speaker 1: a woman who jumped out. It was hopeless for them,

587
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 1: and so we quickly shut that down. I don't think

588
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: it was on more than three or four minutes until

589
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: people could react and say, stopped. We're not going to

590
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 1: show that. And then I said, because I've grown up

591
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 1: around construction, there's so much damage to these towers, they're

592
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: going to have to bring them down. At about three

593
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: minutes later, first hour starts to collapse and then the

594
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: second tower, and no one was taking a breath. At

595
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: that point, I had looked into the camera and I said,

596
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: this will change it. We're at war. It was an

597
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: unprovoked attack on the United States, the worst attack on

598
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: the United States since eighteen twelve. This is an attack

599
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: on us and probably came from the Middle East. And

600
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: we have to from this moment on think differently about

601
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: who we are, on what we're going to do. And

602
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 1: I guess that was the first one to say that

603
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: kind of thing on the air. And some walky guy

604
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: who was a political science masure wrote and said, you

605
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: don't have the authority to declare war. I wasn't. I

606
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: was a journalist trying to be realistic. So the follow

607
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: up to that is, you got an anthrax attack. The

608
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: hardest thing I've been through in my working days. There

609
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: we were getting these hate letters. You guys are playing

610
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: at all in the Bush administration. So one of my secretary,

611
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: as the wife of a cop, she said, this letter

612
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,719
Speaker 1: is really disturbing. I picked it up and read it. Well,

613
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: it turns out that was not the active letter, but

614
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: it looked like it might have been. A day later,

615
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: she came in and she said I've got this kind

616
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: of scabbard thing on my my upper breast, and I said,

617
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: what's that all about? And her friends are going to

618
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: the bathroom and they said, well, this doesn't look good.

619
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: We couldn't find anybody in New York who had ever

620
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: seen an answer AX attack. We sent her to the

621
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: very very best dermatologist. He called me. He said, I

622
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: can't rule this outtown. I said, what do we do?

623
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: He said, trying to get the agencies to make a

624
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: decision for you. So I actually got in touch with

625
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: the very secret facility in Fort Dietrich, Maryland, and they said,

626
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: I can't tell anybody, but get us a sample for

627
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: Dietrich said, we don't think it is answer. So I

628
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: was very relieved. So I think we're home free. And

629
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: then we sent it down to the c d C.

630
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: Friday morning, I get a call and we were not

631
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: home free, and I had to call my secretary, who

632
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: was hysterical. Understandably, she had an eighteen month old child.

633
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: At that point. There was a movie scene at thirty Rock.

634
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: We're on the fiftieth floor. We've got the head of

635
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: the FBI, the police Commissioner, Rudy Juliani, the landlord for

636
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: thirty Rock NBC's people, and it's jump ball. Nobody knows

637
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: what to do or how to do it. I had

638
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: to go down to the news room and say, everybody

639
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: has to make their own decision. We think it's confined

640
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: to these two people, but if you want to go

641
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: home or go to your doctor, please do that right now.

642
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: And it turns out an in turn in the outer

643
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: office had a worst case because she'd opened the original

644
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: letter and it's spilled out in her lege. They sent

645
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: out a hazmat crew. They went to her trash because

646
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: they didn't have their older hazmat stuff, and some of

647
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: them got ant tracks attacks as well. It was a

648
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: very very tricky, difficult, difficult time. So let's make one

649
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: more jump. I'm a pilot. I was giving you a

650
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: ride once in the small turbo prop I had back

651
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: from Montana, and you were in the back of the

652
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: plane working on this book, and you had this idea

653
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: for a book to talk about your dad's generation, and

654
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: you were laying out the thoughts about it. Of course

655
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: it was the greatest generation. What was the thesis of

656
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: that and how did it come to you? Well? I

657
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 1: was born in nineteen forties. So I'm an old dude

658
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: and my first memories of life were a World War Two.

659
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: We lived on an army base. Everybody was going to

660
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: war coming home from war. After the war, we went

661
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: to work on a big government project building damns in

662
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: the middle of West and there was a town called

663
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: Tickstown Fort Randall, and workers came from all over America

664
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: for these very good jobs. I'll bet the guys were veterans.

665
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: And we never heard a war story, never ever heard

666
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: a war story. That was the culture that we were

667
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: living in. The anniversary of D Day, and went to

668
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: Normandy and the first day that I was there, I

669
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: walked on the beach with two members of the Big

670
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: Red one the first division landed in the first wave,

671
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: two smallish guys from Pennsylvania, and it turns out they

672
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: had been in the same landing craft. Didn't realize that

673
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: until we put them together and I said, what do

674
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: you remember. They looked at each other and they said,

675
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: we remember the same thing. The landing ramp went down,

676
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: and as soon as we went down, our lieutenant and

677
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: our sergeant were shot through the head. We had no leadership,

678
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: We're on our own. Were eighteen years old and we

679
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: were just terrified. And there was a colonel running down

680
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 1: the beach like his outproths morning jog, and he was

681
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: leaning over groups like us and saying the same thing.

682
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: Two kinds of people on the beach, men the dead

683
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: and those about to be dead. Keep going right now,

684
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: it going. He saved a lot of lives that day,

685
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: and they both have the same reaction. They said, we're

686
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: going to fight this war one day at a time.

687
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: We're gonna stay alive one day at a time. By noon,

688
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: I was a puddle. At the end of that day,

689
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: I thought my life has changed. I just couldn't get

690
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,479
Speaker 1: enough of these stories. And I came back here and

691
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: I started gathering more and more and more of them.

692
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: So you wrote this book. It redefined you and you

693
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: became the greatest generation guy. You know. I must say

694
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: it was very gratifying. Random House. I thought they had

695
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: a big hit. They didn't know for sure. They ended

696
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: up printing editions in Japan, Indonesia and everywhere they could

697
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: get a printing press. An Irish woman from Boston wrote

698
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: to me and said, I'm Irish. We're big patriots, we

699
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: have a big family. I now have twelve copies of

700
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 1: your book. You don't like my life. He was just

701
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: stop sending me the book. It was not about me,

702
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: it was about them. I was a beneficiary of it, obviously,

703
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: because people saw me in a different way. And I

704
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: still hear about it because generations have come along and

705
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: didn't know about that, and they've heard about their grandfather

706
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:06,479
Speaker 1: being in the more they get the book and they

707
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: come to me and say, oh my god, I had

708
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,240
Speaker 1: no idea. So it was a single most important professional

709
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: thing I've ever done. So You've done a lot of

710
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: great professional things. You're the only person to ever host

711
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: the Today's Show, nightly News and briefly meet the Press.

712
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: You've won seven Emmy's three Peabodies. You've been inducted into

713
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: the Television Hall of Fame in two thousand and fourteen.

714
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: You even received the Presidential Medal of Freedom from President Obama.

715
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: Life must have really changed when you gave up the

716
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: anchor seat on nightly News in two thousand and four

717
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: What led to that decision. I mean, you're sitting on

718
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 1: the pinnacle of power at that moment. These are the

719
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: days the broadcast TV networks had huge audience, is big ratings.

720
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,280
Speaker 1: There were three of you and you decide to step down, well,

721
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 1: because I didn't want to be hostage to someone else's agenda.

722
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 1: As you know, I love hunting and fishing and being

723
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: outdoors and going places when there's not a rating period on.

724
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 1: I wanted to be able to do that. Summer before

725
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,839
Speaker 1: nine eleven, I had decided that I would wind it

726
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: down then, But when nine eleven happened, I knew I

727
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: had to stay through the next selection, which I did.

728
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: I've been on television at that point for thirty or

729
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 1: five years. I didn't need one more time with makeup

730
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: on Frankly, So I just I didn't want to do

731
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: something else. So you were always thought of it among

732
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 1: the three anchors, and probably in journalism, you're always the

733
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: champion of real America, that part of America that the

734
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: media elites flyover. Has anyone taken your place? No, this

735
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 1: is an extraordinarily complex, wonderful place, and there are great

736
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: stories to be told. Now they have twenty four seven

737
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: cable news, but it's from a narrow base. Frankly, I

738
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 1: know that out there that people resent that what about us.

739
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: I think they're right. No, not just to be a

740
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: picture from twenty feet That's how I feel about it.

741
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 1: So let's move on to a book. A Lucky Life

742
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,720
Speaker 1: Interrupted the memorial Hope. You wrote it in two thousand

743
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: and fifteen about your battle with cancer. Since I've known

744
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: you were always that physical, healthy, outdoorsy kind of guy.

745
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: You were that Midwestern specimen of health. Did you like

746
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: a ton of bricks? Tell me about it. It's early

747
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: part of that year. I went to the South Africa

748
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: to cover a Mandela's funeral and I had a backache.

749
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,240
Speaker 1: And I had back ache before because I had climbed mountains,

750
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: and as you say, you know, I was out fishing

751
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 1: and doing things I didn't think. I thought I'm gonna

752
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 1: get past this. But then I began to fall. My

753
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: primary care doctor there was an intern, a really smart guy,

754
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: and he said I shouldn't go on this long. So

755
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: he drew some blood and then he called in the

756
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: oncologist and they sat me down and they said, you

757
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: have a malignancy. It's called must mobile alma. You know

758
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: people have died from this. Geraldine Farrow died from a

759
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: Frank Renol's ABC anchor man died for We don't think

760
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: you're in peril of dying, he said. We got about

761
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: a five year life term. How do you get it, Well,

762
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,959
Speaker 1: we don't know. Is there a cure? No, not yet.

763
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: How is it going to affect my life? Well, that's

764
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: kind of up to you. But it's going to change

765
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 1: your life, there's no question about that. So, I mean,

766
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: there are other people on this journey that you've been on.

767
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: What advice do you have for them? My advice is

768
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 1: live every day and try to park it as much

769
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 1: as you can. One of the things I've learned about

770
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: having cancer is the extraordinary work that is being done

771
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 1: in these fields and the dedication of people. And let

772
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,760
Speaker 1: me just say something else, and that is we couldn't

773
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 1: have a hospital system in America without immigrants working for us.

774
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: And they're working at the highest levels and as the

775
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,439
Speaker 1: lowest levels of the American healthcare system. And they come

776
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: from South America, they come from Africa, they come from Asia.

777
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 1: Is the untold story of the American health care system?

778
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: Are these immigrants that Sloan Cattering, a woman from Argentina

779
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: Whee raised that was here. She said, yeah, We're not

780
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 1: a melting boat. Were a pure So as we record

781
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: this your seventy nine approaching eighty, this podcast is about

782
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: insights probably you have some of the most unusual insights

783
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: and certainly had some of the best vantage points. Give

784
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: us a little insight as we wrap up here on

785
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: let's start with the TV networks. I'm not one of

786
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:12,919
Speaker 1: those that we ought to go back the old days.

787
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:14,879
Speaker 1: I love the idea that you get everything you want

788
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: on all these different instruments, and the fact that we

789
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: can get somebody in a nanosecond to for example, New

790
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: Zealand the recent shooting, or get pictures out of the

791
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: border down in Mexico. And we have a whole new

792
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,879
Speaker 1: generation of journalists coming along, and I'm thrilled with who

793
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 1: they are. It's opened up to women now in a

794
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: way that in the past. So I'm very encouraged by that.

795
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: With the bid concern that I have a social media

796
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 1: I don't know how we ever get our arms around that.

797
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: You can be a guy who never got a date

798
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: for the proms, sitting in your underwear in Chicago, and

799
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,760
Speaker 1: you can raise Holy hell by not ever telling the truth,

800
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: by making stuff up, and it goes bang across the world,

801
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,919
Speaker 1: and it's very very persuasive and skillfully done. And it's

802
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: a form of a kind of induced genocide. Because it's

803
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: pitting one group against another constantly. You almost never see

804
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 1: anything on social media anymore where here's an idea for

805
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 1: working together. You don't hear that. What you hear is

806
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: I'm against it. Here's why. I remember in the early

807
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: days of Trump, That's how he gave an important speech

808
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: in the Middle East in which he went to the

809
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 1: Middle Eastern leaders and he said, if they come and

810
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: they want to start jihad in your country, throw them out.

811
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: Remember that speech, throw them out. And I said, I've

812
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,879
Speaker 1: been waiting to hear something like I got killed. Why

813
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,720
Speaker 1: people who read my Twitter, I don't go on Twitter

814
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: anymore as a result of that. It's just too easy

815
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: to misinterpret it. So let's go to in the news today.

816
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,439
Speaker 1: You've seen the cycles capitalism and socialism. Well, I think

817
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: that the Democrats got a problem. I think the problem

818
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 1: for the Democrats is going to be are they going

819
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: to be driven by the hard left, by the socialism crowd,

820
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: or are they going to go back to their working

821
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: class roots. And my bias, If they don't go back

822
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: to their working last roots, they're gonna lose. There's, in

823
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: my judgment, too much attention paid to Bernie Sanders and

824
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 1: everybody else. But then you go out and talk to

825
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: people who on a hardware store in Minnesota or a

826
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 1: guy who worked on the line and one of the

827
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:15,399
Speaker 1: manufacturing plans, they're not interesting. They believe in the American dream.

828
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that we can't improve things. I think

829
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 1: we do have to do something about healthcare, about how

830
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: we pay for it and who has access to it.

831
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 1: But I did think Nancy Pelosi said the right things,

832
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: and I'm not interested in impeachment. It's a waste of

833
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,240
Speaker 1: our time. We've got to move on with this country.

834
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 1: That was a very smart thing for her to say,

835
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 1: because that will play to the middle class. It's going

836
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: to be a knife fight, there's no question about it.

837
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: The other concern that I have is that most of

838
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: these candidates, who are quite a way to the left,

839
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 1: I yet to hear from him about foreign policy. You know,

840
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 1: we're going through a huge transition. The European alliances are broken,

841
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 1: they're shattered at this point. If Britain doesn't know where

842
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: it's going to go. The polls and the Austrians have

843
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 1: gone hard right. I thought Obama did not handle Russia

844
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 1: very well, and as a reason, all Russia is more

845
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,839
Speaker 1: powerful than it deserves to be in Europe. And then

846
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: the big issue is not having a meeting with Kim Joan.

847
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 1: It's about what are we gonna do about China, How

848
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: we're gonna manage China going forward. China has enormous problems

849
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 1: to get a hundred million people moving to the cities.

850
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:21,280
Speaker 1: They want cars and they want utilities. China also wants turf,

851
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: and they're determined to get a built away to the

852
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 1: Middle East from China. They're coming out of the South

853
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: China see going right to the Middle East so they

854
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 1: can plug into the oil that's there. Oh, we have

855
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: much of a policy about it. I know that the

856
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: military people worry about it a lot. Let's end on

857
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: the real future. What do you think about space exploration?

858
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: You watched the entire space program unfold, you were covering

859
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 1: much of it. What do you think we're doing. I

860
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: like the unmanned space stuff. I thought that what Caltech

861
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 1: did on Mars was astonishing. We learned so much from

862
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: sending up an unmanned space thing. And you don't risk life.

863
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: It's a lot of less expensive. I know there's a

864
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: romance about going into space, but I think the idea

865
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 1: that we're going to go and on eyes Mars is

866
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,359
Speaker 1: not going to happen. I know you're a young man,

867
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: but it won't happen in your lifetime either, but maybe

868
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 1: my grandchildren. So we end this always because it's Mathew

869
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: Magic talking about the greatest mathematician. You know, we're the

870
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: greatest magician in your case, tell us about the greatest journalist.

871
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,879
Speaker 1: You know, who's the most analytical, who's the best storyteller.

872
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: I've always had this connection to the frick crowd and

873
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:27,760
Speaker 1: John Miatsham is a classic example of what it gifts.

874
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 1: He is for this country. Evan Thomas is another one.

875
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 1: And then when it comes to people on television, Tim

876
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,399
Speaker 1: was in a class of his own. Nobody would deny

877
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: that tis yeah, Tim Russer. We've always been able to

878
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 1: find the right people at the right time. The Today

879
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:44,919
Speaker 1: Show is now being run by two women. Are really

880
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 1: bright or enormously successful. Tom, thanks my pleasure, Bob. Always

881
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 1: there's three lessons I take away from Tom. One, make

882
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: the big gask sometimes you'll actually get it, like Tom

883
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 1: getting to the top of Notre Dame. To don't overlook

884
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: the middle. It's easy to focus on extremes, but Tom

885
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: built his career, his life, and remembering the Middle three

886
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: say yes to opportunities. He went to Atlanta covering those

887
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: key moments in the civil rights movement. He got on

888
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: the bus to cover a small Republican guber Notorio Canada

889
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 1: in California turned out to be Ronald Reagan and even

890
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: his experience with the Berlin Wall. Tom has his own

891
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 1: podcast now here this be sure to give it a

892
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:40,439
Speaker 1: listen as well. I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. That's

893
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 1: it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to

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00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: Math and Magic, a production of I Heart Radio. This

895
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,760
Speaker 1: show is hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sue

896
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: Schillinger for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is

897
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 1: no small feat. Nikki Eatre for pulling research bill plaques,

898
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 1: and Michael Asar for their recording help, our editor Ryan Murdoch,

899
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: and of course Gayle Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel Mango and

900
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: everyone who helped bring this show to your ears. Until

901
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:11,320
Speaker 1: next time, m