WEBVTT - Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend -August 25th, 2025 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:13.000 This is Bloomberg Business Week Daily reporting from the magazine 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:17.639 that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies, 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:22.560 and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business finance 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:26.279 and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Weekdaily 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:31.360 Podcast with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:35.080 Hi, everyone, welcome to the Bloomberg Business Week Weekend Podcast. Well, 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:38.840 this week records for US doocs inflation prints too, one 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:41.560 that caused investors to more definitively price in a FED 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:44.959 rate cut in September, and then a second one that 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:49.120 dialed those expectations back. And then yes, of course, geopolitics, 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:52.600 including a meeting between President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin, 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:55.840 and Bloomberg News breaking the story late Thursday that the 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:58.440 Trump administration is in talks with Intel to take a 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:00.880 stake in the company in what would be a huge 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:03.760 push to boost domestic chip making manufacturing. This is all 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.560 according to people familiar with the plan. For the latest 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:09.920 on this Bloomberg exclusive, head to the Bloomberg and to 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:12.959 Bloomberg dot Com. You also find there the cover story 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:16.600 of the upcoming Bloomberg BusinessWeek issue, which is particularly prescient. 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:18.440 More on that in a moment. 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:23.440 Plus retail with Dana Telsey and concerns about critical minerals 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:26.080 with the head of a mining company. Also an AI 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:29.720 surge for bloom Energy, both of those stocks soaring this year. 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:32.040 Later on, We're going to head to the Pebble Beach 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:35.600 Concord des elegance, Oh that to come. We begin with 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:37.920 this week's release of the cover story in the upcoming 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:41.920 new issue of Bloomberg BusinessWeek. It features US Treasury Secretary 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.920 Scott Bessant, who talked to Bloomberg Treasury reporter Dan Flatley 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:49.800 and Bloomberg's Eric Shatzker about growing up in South Carolina, 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:53.600 working for George Soros and Stanley Drunken Miller and his 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:57.080 path two the Trump White House and to not being 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.880 head of the FED. Our interview with both reporters can 0:01:59.920 --> 0:02:01.559 be found on our podcast feed. 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:04.280 Well after the cover story was published, the Treasury Secretary 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:07.559 stop by Bloomberg Headquarters in Studios this past week, joining 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:11.280 surveillances Jonathan Farrow and Anne Marie Hordern to talk about 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:15.720 everything chips, government data. He also suggested the federal reserves 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:17.919 benchmark ought to be at least one hundred and fifty 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:20.240 basis points lower than it is right now. 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:24.639 What if the BLS data had been the higher quality 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:28.760 and we'd had those numbers, Jonathan, So if we'd seen 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:33.560 those numbers in May in June, I suspect we could 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:37.520 have had rate cuts in June and July. So that 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:40.200 tells me that there's a very good chance of a 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:45.440 fifty basis point rate cut. And I think President Trump 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:47.720 is very good at giving these nicknames. And I think 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:52.959 the reason that the Jay Powell gets a nickname too 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.680 late is because he wants to go into a series 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:59.000 of rate hikes. He's not willing. He's not Alan Greenspan, 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:01.919 who was very forward thinking. They try to be more 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:04.800 data driven, which I think is a mistake because I 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:07.720 think we are going back into an economy like we 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:11.440 had in the nineties, So you know, it's just very 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:15.200 old fashioned thinking. But I do think we could go 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:19.040 into a series of rate cuts here, starting with a 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:21.200 fifty basis point rate cut in September. 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:24.440 A fifty basis rate cut in September, does that signal 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:25.960 that the economy, though, is not. 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:31.320 Doing well, that signals that there's an adjustment and that 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:33.519 the rates are too constrictive. 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:36.920 If you look at any model, that the. 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:41.560 We should probably be one hundred and fifty one hundred 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:45.960 and seventy five basis points lower. So I think the 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:51.480 committee needs to step back. I think probably one of 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:56.200 the most politicized governors just went off the board and 0:03:56.720 --> 0:04:00.520 that she was very, very political. 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:01.760 I believe that. 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:04.960 Was US Treasury Secretary Scott Besson with Bloomberg Jonathan Farrow 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:08.160 and Anne Marie Hord during this past week. That complete conversation. 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:10.800 They covered a lot. You can find it online at 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:12.760 Bloomberg dot com and on the Bloomberg terminal. 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:16.760 As we mentioned earlier, Eric Shatzker, Bloomberg New Economy Editorial 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:20.360 director and editor at large at Bloomberg BusinessWeek, was one 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:22.760 of the co authors of the BusinessWeek cover story on 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:27.200 Secretary Besson. So we asked Eric, along with Bloomberg International 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:30.880 Economics and Policy correspondent Michael McKee, to do a debrief 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:35.040 with us following Secretary Besons Bloomberg TV and radio interview. 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:38.720 Well, first and foremost, he is speaking on behalf of 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:40.680 the president and trying to drive his agenda. 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:42.839 That is his job. 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:45.719 And the job of every cabinet secretary working for President Trump. 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:47.960 In theory, it's the job of every cabinet secretary working 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:51.360 for any president. But there has, it would appear, been 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:53.680 room for a little more debate and disagreement in previous 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.240 cabinets than there is in this cabinet. So that's number one, right. 0:04:56.320 --> 0:05:01.480 It's a salesmanship job. He's out there advancing President's objectives, 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:06.159 president's policies, and as we've seen, he's also a tool, 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:11.440 if you will, for the President's negotiating style or even 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:14.359 the manner in which he shapes public opinion, which is 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:17.880 to drive people to extremes and then ultimately pull them 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:18.520 back a little bit. 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:20.960 That was a big takeaway that I had, Eric from 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:24.400 the cover story that you wrote with Dan was the 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:27.680 risk tolerance for President Trump and the way that the 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:31.720 Treasury Secretary talked about President Trump's risk tolerance with regard 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:34.039 to being higher than his being higher than his a 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:37.279 hedge fund manager who spent years taking on big bets, 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:42.400 working with George Soros and others. And that's the whole 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.080 idea behind the tariff negotiating strategy. 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:50.880 To a degree, Sure's there's clearly there are clearly differences 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:53.320 in the way you manage risk as a hedge fund 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:56.200 manager who has a fiduciary obligation to clients, and the 0:05:56.240 --> 0:06:00.480 way you think about risk and reward and making bets 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:03.800 on outcomes as the president of the United States or 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:07.359 as a policymaker in cabinet. And there's no doubt that 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:11.200 in Scott Besson's mind, Donald Trump has a higher risk tolerance. 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:12.919 But it's a risk tolerance. Again. 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:14.640 I don't want to put words in his mouth, but 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.800 as explained to us with a purpose. In other words, 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:20.359 let's see how far I can push people so I 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.719 know where their limits are, and then I can pull 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:27.760 it back to something that they're comfortable with, but only 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:29.960 comfortable with because they felt what it was like to 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:30.480 be scared. 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:32.160 So is he taking a risk? Mike? 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:34.480 I want to bring into what he said. He talked 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:37.600 about the FED working off of data that's not of 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:42.040 higher quality. Is he taking a risk in that? 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:43.080 He? 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:44.920 I don't know what he's looking for. 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:47.279 Like we all think the US data, the world thinks 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:48.800 the US data is the gold standard. 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:50.040 Until Friday, we thought that. 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:52.960 Now the narrative is that, wait, this data is lumpy, 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:55.000 this date is not good right, it needs. 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:57.400 He said we should have had that cuts in June 0:06:57.440 --> 0:06:58.480 in July, which. 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:02.520 Is the other Trump thing is throw so much stuff 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:08.360 out there that you confuse people and you get people 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:11.920 to think that the truth is not the truth. I mean, 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:15.880 these are the gold standard data around the world, and 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:22.120 while they are somewhat less scientifically valid than they were 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:25.200 because the response rates have gone down, they are still 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:27.000 extraordinarily accurate. 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:28.760 Revisions are a part of it. 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:33.120 So this is I mean, it's truly an effort. The 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:39.080 whole BLS firing thing is an effort to confuse Americans 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:42.400 about what's going on with the data so that when 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:46.400 the data look bad, Trump can blame the data rather 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:49.840 than his policies. So for Scott Bessen, he has to 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:54.200 go along with that, but what he wants from the 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:58.600 Fed doesn't comport with the way the FED is looking 0:07:58.600 --> 0:07:58.880 at it. 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:01.080 He also made reference to Alan Greenspan. He said he's 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:02.760 not willing meaning Fed Shair J. 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:03.240 Powell. 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:05.680 He's not Alan Greenspan, who was very forward thinking. They're 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:07.240 trying to be more data driven, which I think is 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:08.840 a mistake because I think we are going back into 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:10.520 an economy like we had in the nineties. We heard that, 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:13.280 Mike first and then Eric. I mean, we've all been 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:16.280 around since green Span, all of us. There's a lot 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:20.320 been written about perhaps the actions that Alan Greenspan took 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:22.040 as FED chair in the lead up to the Great 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:23.760 Financial Crisis, the mortgage meltdown. 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:25.640 Is that a good reference point, Mike. 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:27.520 For the USB That's an interesting question. 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.400 I don't think most people listening these days anymore really 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:32.960 remember a whole lot about the green Span years or 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:35.440 green SPAN's role in it, other than those of us 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:38.360 who were very closely tied to it. But he did 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:42.080 in the nineteen nineties suggest that inflation was going to 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:45.240 be low because productivity was picking up because of personal computers, 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:49.079 and that was the thing that got him the fame 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:52.599 and the lionization in Washington and on Wall Street. And 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.960 then of course he had the oops of no, there's 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:59.319 not going to be a housing crisis, and so, yeah, 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:01.600 I don't know if it's a good comparison or not. 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.960 The one thing you can say is that Greenspan, unlike 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:10.160 his successors, was very forceful and basically kind of ran 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:14.000 the FED in the direction that he wanted it to go, 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:16.920 which is not something that Jay Pile does, and it 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:21.000 wasn't the way Ben Bernanki or Janet Yellin are Eric. 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:25.000 Are you given the reporting that you and Dan Flatley did, 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.560 the folks that you spoke to within the Treasury Secretary's orbit, 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:35.319 they seem to express a little surprise that he has 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:40.120 not just joined the Trump administration, but that his views 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:43.080 seem so in line with the president's views right now. 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:46.000 How do you explain that? In two ways? 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:51.280 The first is, there's no question that Scott Bessant's point 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:53.200 of view and the things that he says to back 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:56.800 it up have evolved over the course of the past 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:59.280 at the very least seven months since he became Treasure Secretary, 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:05.440 and even before that as. 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:03.560 Of last year. 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:07.720 I remember interviewing him a little more than a year ago, 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:14.319 and he was talking then about the sense or sensibility 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:19.080 of a ten percent global tariff, and he was also 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:24.559 then talking about the goal of getting detch GDP ratio. 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:27.840 Down, you know, as far as the federal debt. 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:32.319 Is concerned, and also the percentage of you know, the 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:35.320 size of the deficit, the annual deficit relative to GDP 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:38.800 as a goal of under three percent, and by the 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:43.559 end of the president's term, the fiscal discipline has sort 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:45.280 of gone out the window for the time being with 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:49.120 the one big Beautiful bill. Besten will tell you that 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:51.520 if the bill is successful, and he believes it will 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:56.839 be in deregulating the you know, American industry and thus 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:00.280 you know, supercharging some kind of domestic manufacturing renaissance, then 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:03.440 you know you'll get a change in the relationship between 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.800 the numerator and denominator. And in fact, yes, deficits will 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:09.360 start to follows a percentage of GDP over time. So 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.040 he hasn't totally walked that back. On the subject of tariffs. 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:16.800 He now talks about how the president's maximum pressure strategy 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:19.679 is what has allowed the United States to achieve these 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:22.840 deals on paper with countries like Japan, for example, in 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:26.480 South Korea and others. And we'll see if those terms 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:29.840 stick and exactly how these novel terms unfold in the 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:34.959 wave of real, real substance of agreements. But and again 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:37.240 this is not to sort of come out in his defense, 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:39.319 that's not our job. But I would point out that 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:44.240 at the moment, the global terrorf rate is fourteen percent, right, 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:46.679 it's not that far off of ten percent. I mean, 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:50.079 I mean four percentage points is forty percent higher than 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:53.160 ten percent, but it's not twenty five percent, and it's 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:55.079 not thirty nine percent, which is of course what the 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:58.360 Swiss appear to be headed for at the moment. So 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:02.760 it's sifted, but it hasn't shifted to an extreme place, 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:04.800 if that makes any sense. Does that helped to answer 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:06.520 the question? And of course that IA would just say 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:09.320 that yes. The reason that people around Scott Bessen are 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:11.800 surprised by the fact that he has come out that 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:13.800 he's in the administration and that he went out for 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:16.160 President Trump in the first place on the campaign trail 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:17.640 and fundraising for him. 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:21.040 Is because they thought that he was a little closer to. 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:23.720 Who they think of themselves as, which is a Reagan Republican. 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:25.719 And the truth of the matter, as we demonstrated in 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.640 our reporting, is that even over the past ten or 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:30.839 fifteen years, he has held different points of view, he 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:32.280 just hasn't shared them with everybody. 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.240 We're speaking right now with Bloomberg New Economy Editorial director 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:38.440 and editor at large of Bloomberg BusinessWeek, Eric Shatsker, along 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:42.520 with Bloomberg BusinessWeek or Bloomberg TV and Radio, International Economics 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:44.120 and Policy correspondent Michael McKay. 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:46.880 You know, speaking of productivity, just a quick headline. Apple 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:50.200 planning to come back in artificial intelligence with new devices 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:52.760 including robots, a smart speaker with a display, and home 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:54.959 security cameras. According to folks in the know, this may 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.880 be a little bit of what some say, maybe. 0:12:57.600 --> 0:12:58.520 Does it do the dishes? 0:12:58.880 --> 0:12:59.240 Not yet? 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:01.480 Not yet, ai fed chair. 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:05.440 But exactly Okay, we only have a few minutes left here. 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:07.760 And I guess every time I listen to Scott Bessont, 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.400 I think about someone who understands the importance of an 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.360 independent FED, understands the role of the US Central Bank 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.240 in the world. Do you feel, like Mike, that he 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:22.200 understands that and that if it gets a bit wonky 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:26.000 or gets very political, that there will be market implications, 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:28.959 not just US market implications, but global market importations. 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:31.120 I think Besson knows that very well. 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:32.600 I mean, he's not dumb. 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:35.319 He rail around the president with that. 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:36.920 Well, no, there are. 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:39.360 No guardrails around this president anymore. He can he can 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:42.840 tell him all he wants, but there is only one 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:47.040 leader and the sider in chief. That leader does not 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:52.239 care about Uh well, he may care about a market collapse, 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:56.559 but he doesn't care that, you know, the FED is independent. 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:00.760 He believes he's the boss to that end. 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:04.800 Is it rare for the Secretary of Treasury to actually 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:07.560 weigh in on interest rate policy from that position? 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:10.319 Of course it is. It hasn't been done in decades. 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:16.679 I mean, we got officially into the government, doesn't The 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:20.600 executive branch doesn't comment on the FED during the Clinton 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.360 administration under Bob Rubin, and it's been that way pretty 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:24.720 much ever since. 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:27.360 US Trump. 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:31.800 But this is not the usual presidency. This is Donald 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:35.680 Trump's presidency, and it is completely different from anything we 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:36.800 have seen before. 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:41.480 Eric, forgive thirty five seconds, Scott besn't passed on being 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.040 FED chair, right, that's at least what we've reported. Do 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:46.280 you think he understands the importance of an independent FED, 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:47.600 how important it is globally. 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:50.160 Yes, he talks about it being a jewel box. 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.040 And by the way, the reason he passed on being 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:54.000 a FED chair is because he finds the job that 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:54.720 he's got now. 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:56.200 Way more interesting out of the irs. 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.920 I think he thinks of the job of Federal was 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:03.200 chairm and particularly if all you all you're really really 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:06.520 supposed to be doing is setting interest rates as relatively speaking, 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:07.360 very one dimensional. 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:09.640 Great stuff, guys, Thank you so much, so appreciate. 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:12.960 Eric Schatsker, Editorial Director Bloomberg New Economy, editor at Large 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:16.360 for Bloomberg Business Week, Michael McKee, International Economics and Policy 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:19.560 correspondent at Bloomberg TV. Check out the full Bessant interview 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:20.360 Secretary Vesson. 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:21.880 It's on the Bloomberg. 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:31.840 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily Podcast. Catch us 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:35.360 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:38.960 on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:41.960 or watch US live on YouTube. 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:44.560 We got a lot of economic news this week. Reads 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.480 on US inflation, one perceived as better. 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:48.520 One not so much. 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:51.440 We also got some data on factories, and we got 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:54.680 to check on the all important US consumer and retail sales. 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:57.480 I was out that day. I was not shopping. I 0:15:57.520 --> 0:15:59.440 was not contributing to the economy. I guess I was 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:03.520 contributing thanks to you on vacation. Yeah. I'm always contributing 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.440 to the economy, to be honest, Carol, you and Mlikerfeo 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.040 caught up with someone who's been analyzing the retail space 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:12.160 for a long time. She's just a real legend within 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.840 the industry. She broke down the data. She looked more 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:18.480 broadly at what's hot and what's not among the nation's retailers. 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.680 Let's ask Dana Telsea. She knows retail like no other. 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:25.000 She has founder, CEO and chief Research officer of Telsey 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.240 Advisory Group. She's with us in New York City. Dana, 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:29.480 thank you so much for joining us on this Friday. 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:34.600 When CEOs are talking about the economy, do they always 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:36.080 kind of talk about it or do you feel like 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:38.960 we're seeing more momentum around some of those earnings releases 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:41.840 about concerns about the consumer and the economy. 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:44.360 Thank you for having me, and yes, I agree with 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:48.120 your take. You're definitely hearing more commentary that continues to 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:51.960 be increasing quarter to quarter about the uncertainty of the economy. 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:54.360 What you've heard from CEOs this week, in a little 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:56.520 bit last week, and we'll have a lot more next week, 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:00.640 is that spending and sales since the end of the 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:04.159 June quarter has improved and it's increased. Some of this 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:07.320 may be because the pull forward of sales given the 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.840 price increases from tariffs, are not yet fully there. And 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:14.959 you've also heard the volatility for example, maybe like April 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:17.520 and May was week, but then June and July picked up, 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:21.600 And is the new normal going to be volatility and 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:25.960 then improvement, volatility and then improvement. The lack of consistency 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:30.120 makes it difficult for sea level executives to plan their 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:31.840 businesses and give guidance. 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:34.600 But help us understand. I mean, it's been a couple 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:38.480 months since Liberation Day, we've been dealing with tariffs. Is 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:43.440 all of this uncertainty still linked to consumers just looking 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:46.840 at tariff's businesses looking at tariffs and still not understanding 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:50.119 exactly how those are going to affect their businesses. 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:52.800 Well, there's a couple things. First of all, what you 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:56.200 see companies do is they're diversifying their sourcing, and as 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:59.200 they're diversifying their sourcing, many of them pulled out of China. 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.480 One other place is the teriff rate rate went higher 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:04.880 than China, and as some of them are bringing back 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:07.919 their sourcing to China. Second thing is we do a 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:11.240 tracker of eighty items each week that we price. We've 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.919 been doing this since April sixteenth, and one of the 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.119 things you're seeing is our pricing and they're iconic goods, 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:21.000 whether Levi's five oh one, gene or Barbie doll. You've 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:24.280 been seeing prices begin to go up, certainly on footwear. 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:27.240 We've seen that and we expect to continue to increase 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:30.640 going forward. You had Amazon Prime Day this year four 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.600 days instead of two days, and the first two days 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:37.200 versus last year, we're up double digits. So consumers are 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:41.119 taking advantage of deals that they may think they're getting 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:46.080 now coupled with newness and product like closed toed Birkenstocks, 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:48.720 where they're buying some of the new items that they 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.120 wouldn't have had before and we're just introduced that's capturing 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:55.440 the interest of a younger consumer. So there's a mix 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.879 of things that are going on to create this dynamic 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:00.960 of what's happening to Dana. 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:05.080 So the retail sales numbers, again, it's an interesting number, 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:07.040 and it could be that people are just paying higher 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:12.080 prices for everything. Would you say in a nutshell with 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:14.400 if you kind of roll in? The US consumer sentiment 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:17.159 feelings down for the first time since April. 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:18.520 They're concerned about inflation. 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:26.440 Consumers are that the consumer, the US consumer is largely cautious. 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.879 Yes, they are. They are more discerning and cautious consumer. 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:32.479 They're more selective in their spending, and you're seeing it 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:35.400 whether it's in restaurants, you're seeing it in some travel, 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:37.800 and you're seeing it in the purchase of goods. More 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:41.920 to come this upcoming week given that target Walmart all 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:45.160 reporting the results an esday later, so more to come 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:46.679 and dissecting what it looks like. 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:49.359 Dana, I have to get your thoughts on the Tapestry 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:53.440 earnings that we saw just earlier this week. What did 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:58.200 you make of kind of that divergence in their two businesses. 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:01.480 The Coach brand has been so popular with gen Z 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:04.920 it feels like everyone wants to buy a Coach bag now, 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:07.000 but the Kate's Pade brand really pulling back. 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:09.000 Just walk us through high level thoughts. 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:10.560 There on what you made at the concernings. 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:13.679 When you think of Tapestry, it's a portfolio company with 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:16.600 two brands, Like you said, Coach and also Kate Spade. 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:19.679 The Coach brand up double digits, the Coach brand seeing 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:24.719 average unit retail selling prices increase, capturing more new customers, 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:27.879 and going from strength to strength by adding items in 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:31.439 their collections that allow them to have a consistent and 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:35.600 sustainable business model. These Kate Spade brand is only fifteen 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:38.960 percent of sales. More of their goods are sold in 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:42.640 the United States, making them more impactful to tariffs, and 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:45.439 that was definitely one of the headwinds and they have 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:49.280 to set the transformation. The surprise was they lost money 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:51.919 in the quarter. There's a reset going on. It's taking 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:55.160 longer than expected. You're going to have this upcoming fiscal 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:58.800 year where you're going to need to see stabilization markers 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:01.600 of what the brand is while they also try to 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:05.080 lean into the Coach playbook and utilize some of those 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:08.720 learnings to update and improve Kate Spade. More to come, 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:11.320 but eighty five percent of the business as coach and 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:13.080 that's growing all right. 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:15.399 In terms of earnings. Just one last question thirty seconds. 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:16.680 What's the big one next week? 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:19.520 It's going to be Walmart and Target. Is Target going 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:22.320 to talk about a successor? Is Walmart still seeing growth 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:24.560 in food? And they seem to be the market share 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:25.680 gainer at Walmart? 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:27.159 All right, got to leave it there, Dana, Thank you 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:27.560 so much. 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:30.720 Dana Telsey, CEO and Chief Research Officer of Telsey Advisory 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:32.439 Group joining us in New York City. 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:37.119 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily Podcast. Catch US 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:40.639 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:44.240 on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:46.160 or watch US live on YouTube. 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:49.720 Well, we've been talking a lot about rare earth minerals 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:51.960 as of late, and some of the US companies that 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:52.880 are manufacturing. 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:54.840 The White House too, has been talking a lot about this. 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:57.520 Yeah, we've talked recently to the CEOs of MP Materials 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:01.080 and USA Rare Earth. Those are among the biggest US 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:04.080 rare earth mining companies in the US. But it's not 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:07.040 just rare earth that matter to the US. And that 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:09.320 brings us to one small cap miner with a roughly 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:11.160 five hundred million dollar market. 0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:14.040 Cap, the company United States Antimony, and though it's not 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:17.040 a household name, it's in the crosshairs of US China 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:19.960 tensions and the global race for key minerals. 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:23.040 We spoke with Gary Evans, chairman and CEO of United 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:27.200 States Antimony Corporation, who joined us alongside Bloomberg News Economic 0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:31.200 Statecraft reporter Joe Doe, and during our conversation we noticed 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:33.040 shares of the company we're rallying. 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:37.080 We're in the category of critical minerals. There's critical minerals 0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:39.840 and there's rare earth, and so the public needs to 0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:46.000 understand there's a significant distinction critical minerals. As an antimony producer, 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:49.320 we're number one on the DLDS a critical mineral list. 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:53.000 And the problem is there is no antimony today being 0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:55.880 mined in either the United States or Canada. It all 0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:59.040 has to come from international sources. We were all getting 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:01.800 every country the world was getting most of their antimony 0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:06.240 from China. China controls sixty five percent of world antimony 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:08.919 or the raw or in the ground, and they control 0:23:09.000 --> 0:23:11.760 eighty five percent of the downstream processing, which is what 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:12.120 we do. 0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:14.760 So fortunately we're in a position of. 0:23:14.760 --> 0:23:18.760 Having a smelter in Montana and one in Mexico, which 0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:21.960 makes us the only two operating smelters for antimony in 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:25.240 North America. And therefore, as you said earlier, we're getting 0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:26.960 a lot of attention from the US government. 0:23:27.880 --> 0:23:29.560 They want us to expand our operation. 0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:33.520 I think I read a report in April we only 0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:37.439 have like a five percent supply in our stockpile. So 0:23:37.880 --> 0:23:40.520 we're trying to ramp up our business to meet this 0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:44.240 critical need. And as Joe said, there's no question that 0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:48.600 antimony is needed by the military. It's used predominantly, as 0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:52.359 he said, in bullets, but it's also used in laser 0:23:52.400 --> 0:23:55.800 guided missile, night vision cameras, night vision binoculars, and what 0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:59.880 have you. So it's a very necessary element for the. 0:24:00.400 --> 0:24:03.400 Hey, Jojoe, come on back in here. We heard from 0:24:03.400 --> 0:24:06.800 Gary just now that the antimony mining is not done 0:24:07.320 --> 0:24:10.359 here in the US or in Canada. Is it possible 0:24:10.640 --> 0:24:12.480 to do it here in the US? Do we have 0:24:13.800 --> 0:24:16.240 the material to mine? And it's just not done for 0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:18.520 environmental reasons. It's not done because we don't have the 0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:20.080 mineral rights to it, or the companies none of the 0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:22.080 mineral rights to it. Like why has this been moved 0:24:22.119 --> 0:24:24.280 to China? I understand from a processing perspective, why that's 0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:27.399 happened with rare earths, Yeah, but with a critical mineral 0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:29.920 like antimony, Why why is that not happening here? 0:24:30.000 --> 0:24:32.199 Well, I mean, I think you go to deposits, you know, 0:24:32.200 --> 0:24:33.840 how good is the deposit and you can pull it 0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:35.679 out of the ground, and then who can process it? 0:24:35.800 --> 0:24:37.639 And this is a question that I have talked about 0:24:37.680 --> 0:24:40.600 now quite a bit with Gary over the last few months. 0:24:40.640 --> 0:24:44.240 And you know, Gary, I think I think your better 0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:47.440 position to talk about that to an investor class. I mean, 0:24:48.000 --> 0:24:51.520 you know, you talked to your investors yesterday on your 0:24:51.560 --> 0:24:54.119 earnings call, and they asked you about the potential of 0:24:54.160 --> 0:24:56.919 beginning mining in the United States anytime soon, and you 0:24:57.000 --> 0:24:59.960 effectively told them, probably it's not going to happen any 0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:03.119 time soon. So where is kind of the upside here. 0:25:03.760 --> 0:25:09.160 We've been working on acquiring leases in both Montana and Alaska. 0:25:09.320 --> 0:25:12.720 We've acquired close to thirty thousand acres of property in 0:25:12.720 --> 0:25:16.480 Alaska and we've taken over the mountain area where our 0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:18.879 smelter is. It used to be an area that we 0:25:19.000 --> 0:25:22.840 mined some twenty years ago. So it's coming right now. 0:25:22.880 --> 0:25:26.680 We're held up by permitting. We spiled permits in Alaska 0:25:26.720 --> 0:25:29.760 back in May. And so getting back to your question, 0:25:29.880 --> 0:25:33.080 why isn't this being done? The EPA, the federal government, 0:25:33.119 --> 0:25:37.520 whether it be the Force Service, the BLM, native tribes, 0:25:37.880 --> 0:25:40.840 everybody tried to stop mining in the United States and 0:25:41.280 --> 0:25:45.040 unfortunately our laws allowed that. And that's why you see 0:25:45.200 --> 0:25:48.120 mining occurring all over the world except the US. It's 0:25:48.119 --> 0:25:51.440 coming back. There's no doubt this administration is very pro 0:25:51.520 --> 0:25:55.400 mining and we have the resources. There's no question that 0:25:55.440 --> 0:25:58.200 we can meet the demand for the United States with 0:25:58.440 --> 0:26:01.040 just our Alaska properties, no doubt about that, and that's 0:26:01.080 --> 0:26:03.280 going to happen soon. I would think in the next 0:26:03.320 --> 0:26:05.840 thirty days we'll be able to bring our first loads 0:26:06.160 --> 0:26:11.000 of antimony truck from Alaska to our facility in Thompson Falls, Montana. 0:26:11.119 --> 0:26:14.600 Garry, how would you describe the conversations now with members 0:26:14.600 --> 0:26:18.520 of the Trump administration with this government versus your conversations 0:26:18.920 --> 0:26:21.080 during the Biden administration. How are they different. 0:26:22.240 --> 0:26:25.600 Well, we started talking to the Department of Defense back 0:26:25.720 --> 0:26:30.639 last September. This is right when China banned all antimony 0:26:30.680 --> 0:26:33.119 sales to any country in the world. In course, our 0:26:33.160 --> 0:26:36.280 Department of Defense was getting all their antimony from China, 0:26:36.359 --> 0:26:39.800 so it raised a lot of red flags. And we've 0:26:39.800 --> 0:26:45.080 been negotiating various agreements and contracts with the Department Defense 0:26:45.119 --> 0:26:47.560 and the DLA since that period of time. 0:26:48.119 --> 0:26:48.919 As we mentioned on. 0:26:48.920 --> 0:26:52.040 The call yesterday, were very close we think to announcing 0:26:52.080 --> 0:26:55.840 some things. It's not done yet, but there's definitely a 0:26:56.000 --> 0:27:00.199 mindset change. Addressing your question from the Biden administration to 0:27:00.240 --> 0:27:04.080 the Trump administration, for instance, we'll have to respond to 0:27:04.160 --> 0:27:07.720 a request from the DoD and they say, can you 0:27:07.760 --> 0:27:09.240 have it to us by Friday, We give it to 0:27:09.320 --> 0:27:12.240 them Friday five o'clock and by eight thirty Monday morning. 0:27:12.280 --> 0:27:14.919 We have a redline response. It's not very often you 0:27:14.920 --> 0:27:17.840 see the government working over the weekend, so there's no question. 0:27:18.240 --> 0:27:22.440 This is a high ticket item with our existing administration, 0:27:22.640 --> 0:27:24.040 and there's a fire been lit. 0:27:24.240 --> 0:27:24.520 Gary. 0:27:24.760 --> 0:27:26.600 Despite the fact that you're getting a lot more attention 0:27:26.600 --> 0:27:28.639 from the Trump administration and they seem to be speeding 0:27:28.640 --> 0:27:31.480 things up, I'd still ask what is the hold up? 0:27:31.760 --> 0:27:33.240 And I know this was a big question you got 0:27:33.240 --> 0:27:35.760 on the call yesterday with investors. They kind of seem 0:27:35.760 --> 0:27:37.000 to be saying, when are you going to get some 0:27:37.040 --> 0:27:39.239 sort of announcement from the government. What's going on? 0:27:41.880 --> 0:27:45.879 We're in a period where contractual changes are being made. 0:27:46.280 --> 0:27:49.359 There was an open comment period respect to the DLA 0:27:49.480 --> 0:27:54.800 that ended actually yesterday afternoon. So I'm very confident we're 0:27:54.840 --> 0:27:58.040 near the finish line. But it has taken amount of time, 0:27:58.160 --> 0:28:00.280 and there's been a lot of reasons that I can't 0:28:00.320 --> 0:28:03.959 really talk about today for that delay, but we had 0:28:04.080 --> 0:28:07.120 we have to make sure that whatever contract or whatever 0:28:07.359 --> 0:28:10.520 agreement we signed with the government is beneficial to our shareholders. 0:28:10.800 --> 0:28:13.400 In the first drafts were not and so we had 0:28:13.400 --> 0:28:16.719 to make sure that we negotiated as best we could 0:28:17.000 --> 0:28:19.800 to maximize the value for our shareholders, but also give 0:28:20.040 --> 0:28:23.520 the federal government a fair trade. You know, we're we're 0:28:23.359 --> 0:28:26.159 we pay taxes, we know, and so it was it 0:28:26.200 --> 0:28:27.359 was that was very necessary. 0:28:27.680 --> 0:28:31.720 Forgive me if I miss this, But is the agreement 0:28:31.760 --> 0:28:33.919 that you might be working out with the government akin 0:28:33.960 --> 0:28:37.480 to what we saw with MP Materials, which has a 0:28:38.160 --> 0:28:41.120 four hundred million dollar equity investment by the Department of 0:28:41.200 --> 0:28:44.800 Defense into the company. And we know that MP Materials 0:28:44.840 --> 0:28:49.440 is certainly working specifically in the rare earth materials area. 0:28:49.640 --> 0:28:55.040 So could it possibly be that the government DoD makes 0:28:55.040 --> 0:28:57.560 an equity investment in you guys as part of an 0:28:57.600 --> 0:29:00.880 agreement so that you can do what you need to 0:29:01.160 --> 0:29:04.600 in terms of ramping up either production or your facilities. 0:29:05.800 --> 0:29:09.520 So obviously that's on the table. I think with us, 0:29:09.560 --> 0:29:11.680 as well as a lot of other companies, I think 0:29:11.720 --> 0:29:13.720 we're in a little bit unique position in that we 0:29:13.840 --> 0:29:16.400 have a four hundred and fifty million dollar market cap, 0:29:16.720 --> 0:29:18.920 we have our own cash, we have our own capital. 0:29:19.480 --> 0:29:23.160 We need more of a big brother than a huge 0:29:23.280 --> 0:29:28.320 capital investment. Now, as we ramp up this year and 0:29:28.400 --> 0:29:30.640 do the things that we've told the public we plan 0:29:30.680 --> 0:29:33.120 on doing and the DoD I think there's a very 0:29:33.120 --> 0:29:35.920 good chance in twenty twenty six if we want to 0:29:35.920 --> 0:29:38.520 do another smelter, if we want to do another project. 0:29:38.800 --> 0:29:41.800 We also are involved in tungsten and cobalt other two 0:29:41.840 --> 0:29:45.520 other critical minerals, then those type of opportunities exist. But 0:29:45.560 --> 0:29:48.440 what we're negotiating today and have been for the last 0:29:48.480 --> 0:29:52.920 eight months is something different. It's very positive for our company, 0:29:52.920 --> 0:29:55.520 but it's not a direct investment by the government. 0:29:55.640 --> 0:29:57.680 Gary, I want to kind of bring people into what's 0:29:57.680 --> 0:29:59.920 at stake here, or at least what is being said 0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:04.920 is at stake. As you mentioned, the Chinese officials put 0:30:04.920 --> 0:30:09.440 an export control on antimony, which came well after the 0:30:09.520 --> 0:30:11.680 germanium and gallium that so many people talked about a 0:30:11.680 --> 0:30:15.080 couple years ago. Have you guys experienced any of these 0:30:15.080 --> 0:30:18.720 effects of export controls on antimony from China? 0:30:20.320 --> 0:30:21.960 Yes, unfortunately we have. 0:30:22.680 --> 0:30:26.360 We were acquiring material from a company out of Australia 0:30:26.960 --> 0:30:30.000 and we were taking that material their fifty five ton 0:30:30.160 --> 0:30:35.480 container loads to our smelter in Madero, Mexico, and that particular, 0:30:35.720 --> 0:30:40.000 this third load that we acquired was transloaded over in 0:30:40.160 --> 0:30:44.360 China in April and the Chinese customs confiscated our container, 0:30:44.400 --> 0:30:47.160 took it off the ship and held it for ninety days, 0:30:47.560 --> 0:30:50.920 gave us no reason. All the paperwork was correct, it 0:30:50.920 --> 0:30:54.080 had been paid for, and we finally had to get 0:30:54.080 --> 0:30:57.440 the State Department in the White House involved for some reason. 0:30:57.520 --> 0:31:01.800 Finally they released it. It showed back up in Australia, 0:31:01.880 --> 0:31:04.240 did not come to us. They sent it back to Australia. 0:31:04.720 --> 0:31:07.000 Was arrived there about three or four days ago. It's 0:31:07.080 --> 0:31:08.680 currently ownership to Mexico. 0:31:08.760 --> 0:31:08.920 Now. 0:31:09.000 --> 0:31:13.080 So from now on, obviously, whoever we buy antimony from, 0:31:13.200 --> 0:31:15.800 we're in a putting in our contracts. They cannot stop 0:31:15.800 --> 0:31:19.320 in China because China did this. For whatever reason, we 0:31:19.360 --> 0:31:22.600 know this company used to sell antimony to China. Maybe 0:31:22.640 --> 0:31:25.000 they were mad the fact I said US antimony on 0:31:25.080 --> 0:31:27.640 it maybe was ticked them off. I don't know, but 0:31:28.280 --> 0:31:30.320 they definitely made a statement with what they did. 0:31:30.560 --> 0:31:33.160 We're speaking with Gary Evans, chairman and CEO of United 0:31:33.200 --> 0:31:37.040 States Antimony Corps, also with US US Economic stake Craft 0:31:37.040 --> 0:31:37.960 reporter Joe Dell. 0:31:39.160 --> 0:31:42.520 Gary a follow up on that, I mean, what does this, 0:31:42.840 --> 0:31:46.280 what does this really say, I like, should people actually 0:31:46.320 --> 0:31:49.520 be concerned? I mean, eventually your antimony is getting to 0:31:49.560 --> 0:31:55.120 you here at your Mexico location, Like, are are sounding 0:31:55.160 --> 0:31:56.680 too many alarm bells on this front? 0:31:58.160 --> 0:31:58.800 I don't think so. 0:31:59.200 --> 0:32:02.840 I really, I doubt in our lifetimes we'll ever see 0:32:02.920 --> 0:32:06.240 antimony coming out of China again. We know their largest 0:32:06.560 --> 0:32:10.720 minor was depleted last year. Ever, and so ever, I 0:32:10.720 --> 0:32:13.040 don't think we'll ever see antimony coming out of China. 0:32:13.080 --> 0:32:16.920 There is truly a worldwide shortage of this product. It 0:32:17.000 --> 0:32:19.440 is so difficult for us to find product. That's why 0:32:19.440 --> 0:32:22.000 we went and started mining it ourselves. There's just not 0:32:22.160 --> 0:32:22.800 any supply. 0:32:23.360 --> 0:32:26.880 Presidents love to talk about energy independence, it doesn't matter 0:32:26.920 --> 0:32:29.440 if they're Democrats or Republicans. Do we get to a 0:32:29.520 --> 0:32:33.840 point where they can talk about antimony independence and we 0:32:33.880 --> 0:32:36.800 can get one percent of what the US needs from 0:32:36.920 --> 0:32:37.720 US supplies? 0:32:38.800 --> 0:32:41.520 I have no doubt that we can meet all the 0:32:41.560 --> 0:32:45.840 needs of our government as well as our industrial customers 0:32:46.200 --> 0:32:48.480 from Canada, the United States, and Mexico. 0:32:48.560 --> 0:32:49.960 We don't need to go anywhere else. 0:32:50.080 --> 0:32:53.480 When When will we be able to do that in 0:32:53.160 --> 0:32:55.000 the next three to five years. 0:32:55.080 --> 0:32:56.240 It's not going to happen overnight. 0:32:56.360 --> 0:32:57.800 You know, in the last few years, you would have 0:32:57.840 --> 0:33:00.640 said Canada, United States, and Mexico and I have thought, okay, 0:33:00.640 --> 0:33:03.480 that could work. These countries can all work together. But 0:33:03.520 --> 0:33:05.840 over the last few months we've seen trade tensions flare, 0:33:06.000 --> 0:33:08.520 especially with our neighbors to the north and our neighbors 0:33:08.520 --> 0:33:10.160 to the south. How does that affect the way you 0:33:10.200 --> 0:33:12.240 look at the industry in your own business. 0:33:12.720 --> 0:33:15.560 No question that. You know, Mexico has a new president. 0:33:15.640 --> 0:33:18.640 She's very anti mining. Fortunately the minds that we have 0:33:18.720 --> 0:33:21.920 in Mexico or grandfather, but you know, there needs to 0:33:21.960 --> 0:33:23.320 be greater collaboration. 0:33:23.480 --> 0:33:23.680 Now. 0:33:23.760 --> 0:33:25.920 The DD looks at Canada dislike it was in the 0:33:26.040 --> 0:33:28.560 United States. So any project we find up there, the 0:33:28.640 --> 0:33:31.840 DoD likes it and looks at it as a domiciled country. 0:33:31.960 --> 0:33:34.360 Great is that as a separate country or because they 0:33:34.360 --> 0:33:35.160 want to take it over? 0:33:35.880 --> 0:33:38.000 Well, you know the fifty first state, of course, is 0:33:38.040 --> 0:33:39.000 what I'm talking about now. 0:33:39.600 --> 0:33:43.520 So you're saying relations between the two nations are comfortable, 0:33:43.920 --> 0:33:47.120 and despite what we have in the headlines, you're saying 0:33:47.120 --> 0:33:50.160 that they are working and cooperating because they understand they 0:33:50.240 --> 0:33:51.040 kind of need each other. 0:33:52.040 --> 0:33:55.120 Yeah, Canada needs antimony just as bad as the United 0:33:55.120 --> 0:33:59.880 States needs antimony and Canada is a very pro mining country. 0:34:00.200 --> 0:34:03.120 So that's why we have a lot of activities like 0:34:03.160 --> 0:34:06.000 I mentioned in tungsten and cobalt in Canada Gary. 0:34:06.160 --> 0:34:11.719 These conversations you have with defense officials, how dire are 0:34:11.760 --> 0:34:16.040 they indicating to you that the antimony shortage is for them? 0:34:17.239 --> 0:34:20.640 When you see the announcements will be making, you'll understand 0:34:20.719 --> 0:34:24.239 it's pretty dire. We have the lowest we have the 0:34:24.280 --> 0:34:28.799 lowest amount of antimony supplies in the inventory for our 0:34:28.800 --> 0:34:31.520 government since World War Two. You got to remember we're 0:34:31.560 --> 0:34:35.640 funding Israel, we're funding Ukraine, and we've dwindled our supplies 0:34:35.680 --> 0:34:38.000 and at the same time China cut us off. So 0:34:38.320 --> 0:34:40.600 it's a double edged sword. People are waking up that hey, 0:34:40.640 --> 0:34:41.360 we have a problem. 0:34:41.760 --> 0:34:43.759 So what does that mean for national defense? Like, what 0:34:43.760 --> 0:34:47.080 would your message be to viewers and listeners right now 0:34:47.160 --> 0:34:49.040 about how critical this mineral is. 0:34:50.800 --> 0:34:55.000 It's a it's an extremely critical mineral. And there's there's 0:34:56.080 --> 0:34:59.239 you know, people that have tried to replicate antimony with 0:34:59.280 --> 0:35:01.640 other synthetic antimony and hasn't worked very well at all. 0:35:01.680 --> 0:35:04.040 In fact, it's three times expensive. I do think they'll 0:35:04.080 --> 0:35:07.520 be continued upward pressure on the price because we cannot 0:35:07.520 --> 0:35:10.280 meet we can't come close to meet our customer's demands. 0:35:10.320 --> 0:35:13.520 We're we're changing that. We have a substantial expansion going 0:35:13.560 --> 0:35:15.160 on in Montana that'll be done by the end of 0:35:15.200 --> 0:35:17.719 the year. But you know, it's just going to take 0:35:17.760 --> 0:35:19.319 some time. It's not going to happen overnight. It's not 0:35:19.360 --> 0:35:21.920 like there's a huge pile of antimony sitting over here 0:35:21.920 --> 0:35:25.520 in some country waiting to go to market. It's all depleted, 0:35:25.600 --> 0:35:30.240 so we're having to find new areas to find the ore. 0:35:30.280 --> 0:35:33.600 Gary, how long has the dwindling supply issue been going 0:35:33.640 --> 0:35:35.480 on for? And I'm just curious if you had conversations 0:35:35.480 --> 0:35:37.759 with the Bidy administration as well. 0:35:37.920 --> 0:35:38.200 Well. 0:35:38.960 --> 0:35:42.680 Because China was selling so much antimony around the world, 0:35:42.719 --> 0:35:47.759 nobody cared about it. China kept the price artificially low, less. 0:35:47.280 --> 0:35:48.400 Than five dollars a pound. 0:35:48.440 --> 0:35:51.200 Today the price is twenty five to twenty seven dollars 0:35:51.239 --> 0:35:54.160 a pound and probably going higher. I really believe we'll 0:35:54.160 --> 0:35:56.560 see fifty dollars a pound in the next year. So 0:35:58.600 --> 0:36:01.000 you know, the fact that we were so fact that 0:36:01.360 --> 0:36:05.520 we're so dependent upon China and had blindfolds on that 0:36:05.680 --> 0:36:07.879 all of a sudden, they cut it off had nothing 0:36:07.920 --> 0:36:10.919 to do with Trump coming in office. This happened last September, 0:36:11.040 --> 0:36:13.960 so it's been a year since they cut everybody off. 0:36:13.960 --> 0:36:15.280 It's not just the United States. 0:36:15.480 --> 0:36:18.320 They cut off every country in the world, the European Union, 0:36:18.640 --> 0:36:21.319 all other countries that were buying antimony. You can sell 0:36:21.360 --> 0:36:24.200 antimony to China when you get nothing back in return 0:36:24.280 --> 0:36:25.280 other than cash. 0:36:25.360 --> 0:36:28.480 Gary, what's the biggest hurdle US antimony faces right now 0:36:28.960 --> 0:36:32.359 in getting more antimony production up and out the door. 0:36:33.280 --> 0:36:37.120 If I had my permits right now in Alaska and 0:36:37.160 --> 0:36:42.160 in Montana, I'd have antimony in our smelters. I don't 0:36:42.160 --> 0:36:45.760 have those permits yet. And you know, we're doing everything 0:36:45.800 --> 0:36:48.560 we can to speed it along. There's people in Alaska 0:36:48.600 --> 0:36:51.560 that don't want to see mining, and the group called 0:36:51.600 --> 0:36:52.480 Save our Domes. 0:36:52.880 --> 0:36:54.200 We've done pr work. 0:36:54.239 --> 0:36:57.760 We're doing everything we can to a greeze the skids 0:36:57.760 --> 0:36:59.799 to make sure that people understand that. 0:36:59.800 --> 0:37:01.000 We're we're trying to clean up. 0:37:01.040 --> 0:37:03.440 This is antimony left on the ground the last one 0:37:03.480 --> 0:37:07.440 hundred years from gold miners in Alaska. We're picking it up, 0:37:07.480 --> 0:37:09.920 putting in super sacks, and bringing it to Montana. We're 0:37:09.960 --> 0:37:12.600 cleaning up the place and people are fighting that. So 0:37:12.960 --> 0:37:15.600 it's an education process that we've got a lot of 0:37:15.600 --> 0:37:19.400 pr we're doing, and we're obviously working with senators, House members, 0:37:19.600 --> 0:37:21.799 we're working with the President. We're working with a lot 0:37:21.840 --> 0:37:24.319 of people. You'll see some other news about that next week. 0:37:24.440 --> 0:37:27.360 Gary, would would the Defense Department be your only customer? 0:37:29.280 --> 0:37:35.160 We currently have seventeen industrial customers. We have one particular customer. 0:37:35.480 --> 0:37:37.600 It would take one hundred percent of our supply. So 0:37:37.640 --> 0:37:40.439 that gives you an idea. The industrial side is much 0:37:40.520 --> 0:37:43.920 greater than the Department of Defense. And that's you know, 0:37:44.000 --> 0:37:46.399 one thing in these contracts we're been working on. They've 0:37:46.400 --> 0:37:49.600 made sure that we don't take away the business from 0:37:49.640 --> 0:37:52.240 the industrial side. And that's why we're ramping up. Because 0:37:52.280 --> 0:37:55.680 the government needs a stockpile which they currently don't have. 0:37:56.080 --> 0:37:58.120 And we're the only provider. There's nobody else. 0:37:58.160 --> 0:38:01.880 It's China's us antimony and a smelter in Belgium. 0:38:01.880 --> 0:38:03.520 That's it for the whole world. 0:38:03.600 --> 0:38:04.840 All Right, We're gonna have to leave it there. I 0:38:04.880 --> 0:38:06.319 got to say, this is one of those interviews. I 0:38:06.360 --> 0:38:07.160 know Joe knows this. 0:38:07.120 --> 0:38:11.240 Stuff, but I certainly take a lot away from it. Great, Gary, 0:38:11.280 --> 0:38:14.120 thank you so much Gary Evans, chairman CEO of US Antimony, 0:38:14.760 --> 0:38:16.919 joining us from our bureau in Dallas, and of course 0:38:16.920 --> 0:38:19.160 our in house expert on all things when it comes 0:38:19.200 --> 0:38:21.359 to mining, Bloomberg News Economic. 0:38:21.000 --> 0:38:22.280 Statecraft reporter Jodoe. 0:38:22.280 --> 0:38:24.560 By the way, shares of US antimony timp there up 0:38:24.560 --> 0:38:27.880 about one hundred and seventeen percent here to day. 0:38:31.440 --> 0:38:35.319 This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live 0:38:35.400 --> 0:38:38.640 each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple CarPlay 0:38:38.719 --> 0:38:41.360 and the Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You 0:38:41.400 --> 0:38:44.600 can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship 0:38:44.640 --> 0:38:48.160 New York station Just Say Alexa. Played Bloomberg eleven. 0:38:47.920 --> 0:38:50.800 Thirty plenty ahead in our second hour of the weekend 0:38:50.920 --> 0:38:53.400 edition of Bloomberg Business Week, including a check on the 0:38:53.400 --> 0:38:56.160 New York City luxury real estate market, who's buying and 0:38:56.200 --> 0:38:57.520 who's paying in cash? 0:38:57.680 --> 0:39:00.840 Plus the most stunning and rare ours from around the 0:39:00.840 --> 0:39:03.680 world are taking center stage at this year's Pebble Beach 0:39:03.760 --> 0:39:07.959 Concorde Elegance. We talk with the chairman, Sandra Button. 0:39:07.800 --> 0:39:10.319 Firstep this hour. Green firms in the United States have 0:39:10.320 --> 0:39:13.680 found something of a lifeline in artificial intelligence after being 0:39:13.719 --> 0:39:17.239 bogged down by high interest rates, shrinking funding, and more recently, 0:39:17.640 --> 0:39:20.160 President Trump's sharp rollback of support. 0:39:20.320 --> 0:39:23.319 Our Bloomberg New Energy Finance team recently pointed out that 0:39:23.400 --> 0:39:26.520 clean tech companies that have inked deals to support data 0:39:26.520 --> 0:39:29.800 centers have seen their stock sore this year, out performing 0:39:29.880 --> 0:39:32.400 the S and P five hundred. That includes the stock 0:39:32.440 --> 0:39:35.680 price of fuel cell provider Bloom Energy, which as we 0:39:35.760 --> 0:39:38.480 put our show to bed this week, nearly doubled so 0:39:38.600 --> 0:39:41.360 far this year and as a roughly ten billion dollar 0:39:41.440 --> 0:39:42.320 market cap. 0:39:42.200 --> 0:39:44.799 And shares of Bloom Energy continue to rally big time 0:39:44.920 --> 0:39:45.880 again this week. 0:39:46.239 --> 0:39:46.520 K R. 0:39:46.600 --> 0:39:49.680 Shreeter is founder, chairman, and CEO bloom Energy. He joined 0:39:49.680 --> 0:39:52.680 Bloomberg's David Gore and me to discuss the impact of 0:39:52.760 --> 0:39:54.960 AI on its business and a lot more. 0:39:55.440 --> 0:39:59.560 This is an amazing time yeah in human history where 0:39:59.600 --> 0:40:04.000 we have no seeing the need for power growth anywhere 0:40:04.239 --> 0:40:06.279 close to what we are seeing today. Let me put 0:40:06.320 --> 0:40:10.080 it in perspective, the amount of power that the big 0:40:10.239 --> 0:40:13.520 hyperscalers are saying they need between now and twenty thirty 0:40:14.640 --> 0:40:19.600 is equal to all the power every single family home 0:40:19.760 --> 0:40:22.919 in the US put together would need about eighty five 0:40:22.960 --> 0:40:26.800 million single family homes Give or day all the power 0:40:26.800 --> 0:40:29.840 that they use is going to be needed in addition 0:40:29.960 --> 0:40:32.840 to the power we have today to just power the 0:40:32.840 --> 0:40:37.440 AI data service. That's how large this opportunity is. And 0:40:37.640 --> 0:40:42.560 very clearly the old model of centralized power plants with 0:40:42.680 --> 0:40:47.640 transmission distribution simply cannot meet that demand in a timely fashion. 0:40:48.600 --> 0:40:53.960 That is the opportunity. And Bloom was purpose built to 0:40:54.040 --> 0:40:57.560 provide on site power for the digital revolution, and we 0:40:57.600 --> 0:40:59.560 are so happy to be in the right place at 0:40:59.560 --> 0:40:59.920 the right time. 0:41:00.520 --> 0:41:02.960 Well, help us understand how the company works. And you 0:41:03.040 --> 0:41:05.920 mentioned that on site power, so what that looks like. 0:41:05.960 --> 0:41:08.440 Of course, there's been so much conversation recent months about 0:41:08.680 --> 0:41:11.480 perhaps the need to invest more in nuclear power or 0:41:12.000 --> 0:41:15.160 fortify the grid, bring more power plants online. How do 0:41:15.200 --> 0:41:18.239 you see your company as maybe not a substitution for that, 0:41:18.280 --> 0:41:21.200 but a compliment to the kind of growth and develop 0:41:21.280 --> 0:41:23.520 we're likely to see here in the power grid going forward. 0:41:24.760 --> 0:41:27.000 I think we're going to need all forms of power 0:41:27.120 --> 0:41:30.800 in very large quantities going forward to meet our ratios 0:41:31.600 --> 0:41:34.560 like energy needs. However, in the short term, if you 0:41:34.640 --> 0:41:39.640 take five to ten years, natural gas to electricity is 0:41:39.680 --> 0:41:43.760 going to be the single largest contributor to this additionality, 0:41:44.320 --> 0:41:48.560 what Bloom does. It takes natural gas without burning it, 0:41:48.640 --> 0:41:52.759 without combustin. We extract the chemical energy in it using 0:41:52.760 --> 0:41:57.239 a fuel cell and make electricity at the highest efficiency 0:41:58.440 --> 0:42:02.960 without air pollution, without noise in our generators because they 0:42:03.000 --> 0:42:06.359 have quiet, solid state and a very high reliability. 0:42:06.840 --> 0:42:11.040 For those reasons, if you are in a. 0:42:10.960 --> 0:42:14.719 Neighborhood that is going to have a data center, we 0:42:14.760 --> 0:42:17.520 are your best choice because we don't pollute your air, 0:42:18.080 --> 0:42:21.400 we don't use water, and we don't make any noise 0:42:21.760 --> 0:42:26.279 as we generate this reliable power, So you can have 0:42:26.800 --> 0:42:31.360 the economic advantage that a data center brings to the 0:42:31.600 --> 0:42:35.759 local community. At the same time, you're not compromising on 0:42:35.800 --> 0:42:36.280 your health. 0:42:36.560 --> 0:42:38.560 So one thing I want to ask you, actually, our 0:42:38.600 --> 0:42:40.719 Will Wade does who really covers this space? And we 0:42:40.719 --> 0:42:42.680 were talking about you coming on and he said, well, 0:42:42.719 --> 0:42:44.920 wait a minute, let's talk about these fuel cells for 0:42:45.040 --> 0:42:49.000 data centers. Can fuel cells really work for this? What 0:42:49.080 --> 0:42:52.840 evidence have you guys seen that it does really work? 0:42:53.960 --> 0:42:59.759 So, yeah, that's a great question. The issue is we 0:43:00.080 --> 0:43:04.040 are progressing so fast in our technology at ai speed 0:43:04.680 --> 0:43:07.000 that some people that have looked at fuel sales ten 0:43:07.080 --> 0:43:09.560 years ago and have that notion of who we are 0:43:10.000 --> 0:43:13.360 don't understand where we are today as a company. We 0:43:13.640 --> 0:43:17.440 already are powering more than half a gigawa worth of 0:43:17.560 --> 0:43:21.880 data center because our total installed capacity for data centers 0:43:22.120 --> 0:43:24.759 is more than half a gigawat. So we're not a concept. 0:43:24.840 --> 0:43:27.960 We are not a PowerPoint. We're actually producing power for 0:43:28.040 --> 0:43:31.960 these data centers. And this year alone we have increased 0:43:31.960 --> 0:43:35.640 our capacity to one giga what a year, and we 0:43:35.719 --> 0:43:38.560 announced in our earnings call that by end of next 0:43:38.680 --> 0:43:41.239 year we can do two gigawards a year. That's two 0:43:41.400 --> 0:43:44.120 nuclear power plants worth of power coming out of our 0:43:44.200 --> 0:43:48.960 factory next year. And you know how long it takes 0:43:48.960 --> 0:43:51.400 to build a nuclear power plant and actually commission it. 0:43:51.719 --> 0:43:55.279 So we are no longer a concept. We are a 0:43:55.480 --> 0:44:00.480 mature technology that is affordable and can compete with other 0:44:00.560 --> 0:44:04.640 technologies that don't have as good attributes as we do Strata. 0:44:04.680 --> 0:44:06.279 I wonder if you could talk a bit about your 0:44:06.480 --> 0:44:08.799 business model. I know that you've announced deals with with 0:44:08.880 --> 0:44:12.200 other companies, most recently with Oracle, of course, the company 0:44:12.200 --> 0:44:15.000 that I know is building investing a lot in its 0:44:15.120 --> 0:44:16.720 data center infrastructure. 0:44:18.360 --> 0:44:18.719 Could you. 0:44:20.200 --> 0:44:22.000 Cares for you just give us a sense here sort 0:44:22.000 --> 0:44:23.520 of of what those deals look like. What that deal 0:44:23.560 --> 0:44:25.400 with Oracle is like and in particular. 0:44:25.960 --> 0:44:31.560 Yeah, David, So our customers, here's what happens. Once we 0:44:31.680 --> 0:44:35.239 sign a deal with the customer, they either buy the 0:44:35.239 --> 0:44:39.680 capital equipment from us, and then they also sign up 0:44:39.719 --> 0:44:42.839 for a service contract. It's one hundred percent attached rate 0:44:42.880 --> 0:44:46.040 because we run those units for them and we maintain 0:44:46.160 --> 0:44:51.000 that and we offer them the promise guarantee of performance. Now, 0:44:51.719 --> 0:44:55.120 if they don't buy the equipment as caadpex, we create 0:44:55.160 --> 0:44:58.680 a special purpose vehicle using financing and we simply sell 0:44:58.719 --> 0:45:03.239 them power like the utility world, except this is on 0:45:03.360 --> 0:45:07.359 site and highly reliable and clean. So either way, when 0:45:07.440 --> 0:45:10.360 we create a special purpose vehicle, that financial investor in 0:45:10.400 --> 0:45:14.280 that vehicle gives us the upfront money for our capital, 0:45:14.760 --> 0:45:17.680 and we also have an annuity revenue coming out of service. 0:45:18.040 --> 0:45:20.480 So we have two streams of revenue if you want 0:45:20.520 --> 0:45:25.520 to think about it. Installed capital equipment that gets paid 0:45:25.560 --> 0:45:30.640 to us when we ship the equipment, a continuous service 0:45:30.640 --> 0:45:34.480 annuity over the tenure of the contract. That's how we 0:45:34.480 --> 0:45:38.040 make our money, irrespective of whether the customer actually buys 0:45:38.080 --> 0:45:40.800 the capital equipment or a third party buys the capital 0:45:40.800 --> 0:45:45.840 equipment and then charges the monthly rate from the customer. 0:45:45.960 --> 0:45:47.400 Hey, kr Way, I'm curious. 0:45:47.440 --> 0:45:49.360 I'm looking at one of my favorite functions on the 0:45:49.400 --> 0:45:51.640 bloom markets and supply chain function, and I'm looking at 0:45:51.640 --> 0:45:57.400 your customers. Your biggest is I think American Electric Power Company, 0:45:57.440 --> 0:46:00.799 but I'm also looking at Alphabet Microsoft. Do you know Yep, 0:46:00.880 --> 0:46:03.759 sound familiar. These are some of the hyperscalers. Tell me 0:46:03.840 --> 0:46:06.440 how they are amping up their business because they're the 0:46:06.480 --> 0:46:09.719 ones who are doing the massive, massive AI spend, but 0:46:09.760 --> 0:46:12.760 it looks like they're a very small part of your business. 0:46:12.760 --> 0:46:16.200 I'm just curious about what's the conversations you're having with them. 0:46:16.640 --> 0:46:18.640 Are they ramping up to do more with you? That 0:46:18.680 --> 0:46:19.680 would be very telling. 0:46:20.320 --> 0:46:24.120 Yes, the answer to your question is very simple. In 0:46:24.160 --> 0:46:28.760 the past, these hyperscalers would spend all their capital equipment 0:46:29.360 --> 0:46:32.040 just on building the data centers and they could simply 0:46:32.120 --> 0:46:34.279 pick up the phone and call the utility company and 0:46:34.320 --> 0:46:38.480 they would provide the power. No longer is that a 0:46:38.480 --> 0:46:41.880 reality because the utility does not have the amounts of 0:46:42.000 --> 0:46:48.160 power that these hyperscalers need. So now electricity power, which 0:46:48.239 --> 0:46:52.120 is what ultimately the data center needs to monetize the 0:46:52.200 --> 0:46:56.000 data center, is a supply chain that comes from the 0:46:56.000 --> 0:46:58.879 common good called the utility. So they have to own 0:46:58.920 --> 0:47:02.000 that supply chain or they to procure from that supply Chaine, 0:47:02.200 --> 0:47:04.879 we are very much an integral part of that supply chain. 0:47:05.160 --> 0:47:08.320 And we are having conversations with all the hyperscalers today 0:47:08.800 --> 0:47:12.720 and you've seen the announcement rhetorical expect to see similar 0:47:12.800 --> 0:47:17.880 things coming soon. Our American Electric Power contract was actually 0:47:17.960 --> 0:47:20.319 for AWS, which is another hyperscaler. 0:47:20.760 --> 0:47:23.520 I wonder if you could situate your company and this 0:47:23.600 --> 0:47:26.239 industry in the moment that we're in. So we're coming 0:47:26.360 --> 0:47:28.440 out of an administration that was doing a lot to 0:47:29.360 --> 0:47:32.879 support or encourage the adoption of alternative energy. It's why 0:47:32.920 --> 0:47:35.080 to say this is administration that's not doing that. There's 0:47:35.160 --> 0:47:39.200 much less impulse to do that going forward. Here, What 0:47:39.239 --> 0:47:42.160 do you see here as the ideal role of government 0:47:42.400 --> 0:47:46.319 in encouraging the adoption of technologies like yours? In other words, 0:47:46.360 --> 0:47:49.759 if you'd like to see fuel cell technology take off, 0:47:49.800 --> 0:47:52.600 be more widely adopted, what is the role of government 0:47:52.800 --> 0:47:53.640 in making that happen? 0:47:53.840 --> 0:47:54.239 If any? 0:47:54.840 --> 0:47:58.040 I think a simple role that they can play going 0:47:58.160 --> 0:48:02.799 forward is the US government, between the various government functions, 0:48:03.160 --> 0:48:07.120 the military and the intelligence, is the largest procurer of 0:48:07.200 --> 0:48:13.000 electricity to be able to purchase electricity from technologies that 0:48:13.080 --> 0:48:16.400 are made in America. We are made in America technology. 0:48:16.719 --> 0:48:19.520 No other country in the world has the technology that 0:48:19.600 --> 0:48:22.959 we have. So they should embrace us, and they should 0:48:23.000 --> 0:48:26.120 give us an opportunity to serve the US government, the 0:48:26.200 --> 0:48:29.280 US military, and US intelligence and make us a really 0:48:29.320 --> 0:48:30.040 strong country. 0:48:31.239 --> 0:48:33.800 Well there, I was also curious about. And I'm looking 0:48:33.840 --> 0:48:37.680 at your market cap. It's almost about nine point six 0:48:38.200 --> 0:48:42.040 billion dollars, and it is this excitement over AI. You know, 0:48:42.120 --> 0:48:45.520 there's all the money that's being spent care on the buildout, 0:48:45.640 --> 0:48:47.640 and I get that, but I'm just curious. And then 0:48:47.680 --> 0:48:49.400 there's going to be the maintenance and we might not 0:48:49.480 --> 0:48:51.680 need as many workers. And you know, we're all trying 0:48:51.719 --> 0:48:53.880 to get our head about around whether you know, the 0:48:53.880 --> 0:48:57.799 boom the bust part of maybe AI after the build out, 0:48:58.239 --> 0:49:00.840 what is the business for you? Is it maintenance? Is 0:49:00.840 --> 0:49:01.880 it replacement values? 0:49:01.920 --> 0:49:03.040 I'm just curious. 0:49:03.840 --> 0:49:08.920 Oh, thank you for asking that question, Carol. The buildout 0:49:09.239 --> 0:49:12.279 is just a tip of the iceberg. Why would these 0:49:12.480 --> 0:49:16.880 large hyperscalers spend close to a trillion dollars worth of 0:49:16.960 --> 0:49:20.799 capex just this year alone. If all that they're going 0:49:20.840 --> 0:49:24.440 to do is that buildout that's the training data centers. 0:49:24.680 --> 0:49:28.319 The inference data centers will be at least an order 0:49:28.360 --> 0:49:31.759 of magnitude larger than these training data centers, which are 0:49:31.760 --> 0:49:38.040 the foundation building blocks every factory, every bank, every law firm. 0:49:38.360 --> 0:49:41.440 They're going to have inference data centers close to the edge. 0:49:41.680 --> 0:49:44.440 And these edge data centers are going to be located 0:49:44.800 --> 0:49:47.799 where you all live, where people are, where equipment is, 0:49:48.200 --> 0:49:53.560 and in those congested cities, getting the additional power needed 0:49:53.920 --> 0:49:57.839 ten to twenty megawatts in every edge data center, which 0:49:57.880 --> 0:50:01.640 is an inference data center. We are ideally suited not 0:50:01.760 --> 0:50:03.919 just for the large data centers, but for these age 0:50:04.000 --> 0:50:07.960 data centers because we are non polluting, you're quiet, you're reliable, 0:50:08.080 --> 0:50:11.359 and we can provide it on site very quickly. So 0:50:11.480 --> 0:50:15.040 we're super excited about what we think is a really 0:50:15.160 --> 0:50:19.360 secular phenomenon that's happening here that's going to last for 0:50:19.400 --> 0:50:21.880 a very long time to come. This is not just 0:50:21.960 --> 0:50:26.359 a build and bust cycle at all as far as see. 0:50:26.440 --> 0:50:28.040 So would you say a long time? Are you saying 0:50:28.080 --> 0:50:29.160 decades or. 0:50:29.560 --> 0:50:31.160 I'm just going to at least a couple of decades 0:50:31.239 --> 0:50:32.520 at least a couple of decades. 0:50:33.080 --> 0:50:35.160 All right, good to know, we'll stay in touch. 0:50:35.440 --> 0:50:38.799 Love to hear because you certainly have a front row 0:50:38.800 --> 0:50:41.279 seat in terms of this spend and what is going on. 0:50:41.320 --> 0:50:44.120 Certainly all the power that's needed. It's just kind of astounding. 0:50:44.680 --> 0:50:45.800 Doctor K. R. Schweder. 0:50:45.920 --> 0:50:48.800 He is founder, chairman, and chief executive officer of bloom Energy. 0:50:48.840 --> 0:50:51.400 The stock david up another nine percent in today's session, 0:50:51.520 --> 0:50:54.600 and it's really been on a tear this year, up 0:50:54.640 --> 0:50:55.760 about eighty four percent. 0:50:55.880 --> 0:50:58.080 So so interesting to talk about these companies because we 0:50:58.200 --> 0:51:00.879 focus so much on the AI provide as we're making 0:51:00.880 --> 0:51:03.440 these chatbots and all the developments there, but as we 0:51:03.440 --> 0:51:06.520 were just discussing the apparatus that you need to make 0:51:06.560 --> 0:51:10.279 all of that work so huge, so sprawling, and I'm 0:51:10.280 --> 0:51:12.120 just fascinating every time I kind of learn what goes 0:51:12.160 --> 0:51:14.120 into that making all of this stuff run. 0:51:14.280 --> 0:51:15.680 Right, Right, we just hear about that kind of the 0:51:15.719 --> 0:51:17.839 big hyper skelets, and they spend, but there's a lot 0:51:17.840 --> 0:51:19.080 of stuff that needs to be done. 0:51:19.200 --> 0:51:23.200 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily podcast. Catch us 0:51:23.280 --> 0:51:26.720 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen 0:51:26.760 --> 0:51:30.239 on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, 0:51:30.480 --> 0:51:32.440 or watch us live on YouTube. 0:51:33.200 --> 0:51:36.480 Let's talk real estate, because our Bloomberg News team reported 0:51:36.520 --> 0:51:39.160 that Manhattan home sales in the second quarter were stronger 0:51:39.160 --> 0:51:41.799 than they've been in almost two years. Bo'sted by cash 0:51:41.840 --> 0:51:44.879 buyers who've been undeterred by the economic uncertainty created by 0:51:45.280 --> 0:51:48.800 President Trump's trade war. We got some numbers here. A 0:51:48.800 --> 0:51:51.080 little more than three thousand co op in condo purchases 0:51:51.080 --> 0:51:53.480 closed during the quarter. That's a seventeen percent chop from 0:51:53.480 --> 0:51:56.840 a year earlier. That's according to Miller Samuel and the 0:51:56.880 --> 0:52:00.480 brokerage Doug Ellman. The median price of those transit actions 0:52:00.640 --> 0:52:03.680 one point two million dollars. That's up one point six percent. 0:52:03.800 --> 0:52:05.680 I love this cash buyers, all right, So we're wondering 0:52:05.719 --> 0:52:08.600 what Louise Phillips Forbes isssing. She's a real estate broker 0:52:08.640 --> 0:52:11.080 with Brown Harris steven She's been in the industry for 0:52:11.120 --> 0:52:13.520 more than three decades. We love kind of picking her 0:52:13.520 --> 0:52:15.640 brain about what's going on. She's got close to six 0:52:15.719 --> 0:52:18.480 billion dollars in sales during her tenures. She's back with 0:52:18.560 --> 0:52:21.080 us here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. Hello, Hello, 0:52:21.239 --> 0:52:23.319 Kay Good to see you, guys, Good to see you. 0:52:23.800 --> 0:52:25.840 So where are we give us a snapshot of the 0:52:25.840 --> 0:52:26.440 market right now? 0:52:26.480 --> 0:52:28.360 You know, you just did that little snapshot of the quarter. 0:52:28.440 --> 0:52:31.640 I did a little snapshot from May and June for 0:52:31.760 --> 0:52:34.520 twenty twenty four compared to twenty twenty five, and there 0:52:34.600 --> 0:52:40.520 was a seventy two percent volume and price sales, so 0:52:40.560 --> 0:52:43.880 it went from one point four billion in sales to 0:52:43.920 --> 0:52:47.680 two point four billion, so of contrast and science almost 0:52:48.200 --> 0:52:50.360 and then you also had a twenty five percent on 0:52:50.480 --> 0:52:53.440 the number of transactions. So this is all four million 0:52:53.480 --> 0:52:57.120 and above. And on an average of those two months 0:52:57.120 --> 0:52:59.520 in twenty twenty four they were eight point two million. 0:53:00.239 --> 0:53:05.840 This year they're eleven million. So you know, chaos is 0:53:05.880 --> 0:53:09.960 opportunity for many. And cash on those deals is ninety 0:53:10.239 --> 0:53:14.440 ninety percent. That's a lot. So it's kind of interesting. 0:53:14.480 --> 0:53:17.160 I mean, I talk to my bankers all the time, and. 0:53:17.160 --> 0:53:18.000 They are busy. 0:53:18.200 --> 0:53:20.520 They are busy, but on the lower end, and people 0:53:20.560 --> 0:53:24.160 are closing with cash and then they're pulling out you know, 0:53:24.239 --> 0:53:24.839 cash back. 0:53:25.320 --> 0:53:25.680 Okay. 0:53:26.120 --> 0:53:29.120 We spoke to Peter Auchen Bloom Auker Bloom, chief revenue 0:53:29.160 --> 0:53:32.080 officer at Centsion Jet the day that Flexjet announced this. 0:53:32.560 --> 0:53:34.959 Another private jet firm that owned by the same parent 0:53:35.040 --> 0:53:39.680 company announced this investment, and they basically said, we're seeing 0:53:40.520 --> 0:53:44.560 wealthy people from tech and crypto younger people from tech 0:53:44.600 --> 0:53:48.239 and crypto want private jets. We're seeing our demographic go younger, 0:53:48.280 --> 0:53:49.000 and we're seeing crypto. 0:53:49.040 --> 0:53:50.040 Inn't surprise me. 0:53:50.200 --> 0:53:51.080 Is that happening to you? 0:53:51.960 --> 0:53:53.839 I think that the assets. 0:53:54.120 --> 0:53:56.479 First of all, let's just kind of bring it down 0:53:56.520 --> 0:53:59.280 for one second and remember that the first time buyer 0:53:59.360 --> 0:54:03.240 today on an average is pushing forty years old. That's 0:54:03.480 --> 0:54:06.239 different from that millennial run that we had in the 0:54:06.280 --> 0:54:07.120 construction boom. 0:54:07.719 --> 0:54:11.280 But even in New York, right in New York, Yeah. 0:54:11.040 --> 0:54:15.280 Particularly in New York, to be honest, and I'm seeing 0:54:15.320 --> 0:54:17.360 more and more first time buyers that are purchasing that 0:54:17.400 --> 0:54:21.120 are having family members, multi generational family members like grandmothers, 0:54:21.160 --> 0:54:25.080 like instead of inheriting this, I'm giving it to you 0:54:25.640 --> 0:54:28.680 or I'll co purchase with you with the right to survive. 0:54:29.080 --> 0:54:33.239 So listen, creativity is We're in Mecca, so people are 0:54:33.239 --> 0:54:35.919 going to be creative to buy a piece of the rock. 0:54:36.400 --> 0:54:39.920 And I do think the you know, new money and 0:54:40.360 --> 0:54:43.680 I've seen it. Watch the tech commitment from the first 0:54:43.920 --> 0:54:46.640 announcement of Google in two thousand and five with like 0:54:47.000 --> 0:54:50.640 forty eight employees morph to five hundred to twenty five hundred. 0:54:50.600 --> 0:54:53.640 And you see that we are now becoming a hub 0:54:53.680 --> 0:54:57.400 for tech. And as you run up against the housing 0:54:57.480 --> 0:55:03.480 issues that are in California, we're attractive. You know, we 0:55:03.600 --> 0:55:05.920 can get insurance for our apartments. 0:55:06.400 --> 0:55:11.400 Do we stay attractive even if Zoron Mamdani wins the 0:55:11.480 --> 0:55:12.239 mayoral race? 0:55:12.400 --> 0:55:15.680 You mean Robin Hood, I mean the Robin Hood rhetoric. 0:55:15.960 --> 0:55:19.520 I mean, listen, I know this person cares about New Yorkers. 0:55:19.719 --> 0:55:23.360 I believe that. I believe wholeheartedly that his intentions are stellar. 0:55:23.960 --> 0:55:28.799 But you know, the ideology around real estate is not 0:55:29.520 --> 0:55:30.279 a conversation. 0:55:30.600 --> 0:55:31.120 It's action. 0:55:31.280 --> 0:55:36.080 It's infrastructure, it's collaboration public private. And you know, we 0:55:36.320 --> 0:55:40.239 just crawled out of five years of COVID. We now 0:55:40.320 --> 0:55:44.120 have sixty four million last year in tourism. You know, 0:55:44.200 --> 0:55:48.759 the crime is down, you have people back in the office. 0:55:49.160 --> 0:55:53.880 So freezing rent is doing nothing, and it's it's also 0:55:54.000 --> 0:55:57.720 suggesting that landlords are all on their yachts doing nothing, 0:55:57.840 --> 0:56:00.880 and that they should be paying for the opportunity for 0:56:00.920 --> 0:56:03.680 somebody else to be able to pay rent. But there's 0:56:03.760 --> 0:56:07.440 so many landlords that are just skinning by because they 0:56:08.120 --> 0:56:12.280 were postponed from allowing people who weren't paying rent. 0:56:12.400 --> 0:56:14.719 So Louise, you know, Tim and I talk about this 0:56:14.760 --> 0:56:16.239 a lot, and I feel like when we have real 0:56:16.360 --> 0:56:21.640 estate discussions and the idea of providing affordable homes in 0:56:21.760 --> 0:56:24.200 kind of major cities where a lot of people work, 0:56:24.360 --> 0:56:26.560 so that you don't have individuals who are maybe not 0:56:26.600 --> 0:56:30.880 making that much money having to travel an hour or two. 0:56:30.640 --> 0:56:31.480 I've in order to work. 0:56:31.520 --> 0:56:33.799 So what's what's because I've been talking about this like 0:56:33.840 --> 0:56:34.480 my whole career. 0:56:34.560 --> 0:56:37.080 Yeah, how you know, this industry, how do we do 0:56:37.120 --> 0:56:37.719 this so. 0:56:37.640 --> 0:56:41.359 That there is affordable homes in the places where people 0:56:41.440 --> 0:56:41.960 are working. 0:56:42.040 --> 0:56:44.799 I mean when I came into the business, they had 0:56:44.800 --> 0:56:48.040 something called four twenty one a's. There were certificates that 0:56:48.200 --> 0:56:52.680 when you improve a land, yeah there's an unimproved land. 0:56:52.719 --> 0:56:58.320 And remember Bloomberg, thank you twelve twelve years of you know, rezoning, 0:56:59.000 --> 0:57:02.799 you know probably forty percent of our land mass, which 0:57:02.840 --> 0:57:07.600 has helped that situation. And when you build in the 0:57:07.600 --> 0:57:10.000 middle of I don't know. I mean they used to 0:57:10.040 --> 0:57:14.200 have these tax certificates that when developers would improve land, 0:57:14.600 --> 0:57:16.720 they would get a four to twenty one a tax abatement. 0:57:16.760 --> 0:57:19.600 It's a ten year abatement on your taxes, and then 0:57:19.800 --> 0:57:23.400 for that certificate they would then go and sell it 0:57:23.440 --> 0:57:26.120 for somebody to do affordable housing somewhere else that is 0:57:26.320 --> 0:57:28.080 not that has gone away. 0:57:28.880 --> 0:57:31.840 Now was that affordable house though still in New York City? 0:57:32.400 --> 0:57:33.479 That yes, oh okay. 0:57:33.880 --> 0:57:37.080 And by the way, you know, people would say, it's well, 0:57:37.320 --> 0:57:38.880 we don't want to just be in the Bronx and 0:57:38.960 --> 0:57:42.520 in you know, far parts of Brooklyn or Queens But honestly. 0:57:42.240 --> 0:57:44.720 And nothing wrong with those parts. You want to admit, 0:57:45.160 --> 0:57:46.240 and you want a mixture. 0:57:46.560 --> 0:57:50.160 And I just think that it has to be thoughtful 0:57:50.320 --> 0:57:53.080 and it has to be collaborative, and it can't be 0:57:53.400 --> 0:57:58.600 just somebody who isn't practically experiencing these things making rules up, 0:57:58.800 --> 0:58:02.480 like you know, the city councilmen that wants to have 0:58:02.600 --> 0:58:06.680 that has good intentions around broker fees, well, rentals as 0:58:06.720 --> 0:58:10.440 of June eleventh are up fifteen percent because they've just 0:58:10.520 --> 0:58:15.000 passed it all off to the consumer and so unintentional 0:58:15.040 --> 0:58:19.280 consequences when lawmakers don't want to collaborate with the industry 0:58:19.320 --> 0:58:23.760 individuals as well as just regular people. If it's only 0:58:23.840 --> 0:58:27.880 politicians making these decisions and not working with their people. 0:58:28.000 --> 0:58:29.640 I think there's always a concern though, that that the 0:58:29.680 --> 0:58:31.960 people who are renting don't have the voice and don't 0:58:31.960 --> 0:58:32.760 have a seat at the table. 0:58:33.000 --> 0:58:35.480 But you know what I mean, So city is sixty 0:58:35.520 --> 0:58:37.640 eight percent, it's a city of renters. 0:58:37.880 --> 0:58:38.800 Yeah. Yeah. 0:58:39.280 --> 0:58:42.440 I want to get to know your clients a little 0:58:42.440 --> 0:58:44.360 bit and how they're different than they were let's say 0:58:44.400 --> 0:58:47.840 a year ago. The people who are selling real estate 0:58:47.880 --> 0:58:49.920 with you right now, why are they selling and where 0:58:49.920 --> 0:58:50.439 are they moving? 0:58:51.160 --> 0:58:53.000 I mean a lot of it is life change, you know. 0:58:54.200 --> 0:58:57.400 But I'm I have people that have been contemplating selling 0:58:57.680 --> 0:59:03.440 since twenty twenty that are now selling because there's a 0:59:03.520 --> 0:59:07.080 lack of inventory. What their apartments were not worth in 0:59:07.160 --> 0:59:10.440 twenty twenty three are worth what they would like and 0:59:10.440 --> 0:59:14.720 they'll accept it. So, look, a lot of people are 0:59:14.840 --> 0:59:17.360 downsizing and staying in the city. They are people that 0:59:17.440 --> 0:59:22.200 are leaving. But that's that's that's a life decision. That is, 0:59:22.600 --> 0:59:24.480 you know, a cycle of life. I mean, I have 0:59:24.520 --> 0:59:27.520 a lot of people coming back into the city because 0:59:27.560 --> 0:59:31.280 their grandkids and their kids are here. So who are 0:59:31.320 --> 0:59:35.680 my sellers? My sellers range from like a one bedroom 0:59:35.960 --> 0:59:40.000 for six hundred and fifty thousand dollars to and that's 0:59:40.000 --> 0:59:44.720 somebody who bought who now is leaving the city and 0:59:45.120 --> 0:59:47.920 loved owning her home and she's ready for a new 0:59:48.000 --> 0:59:52.160 chapter in Colorado. And then you have a sixteen million 0:59:52.200 --> 0:59:54.680 dollar penthouse which is from one of my developers that 0:59:55.000 --> 0:59:58.040 will be coming on the market in September on the 0:59:58.120 --> 1:00:00.680 Upper West Side, and I just think there's just not 1:00:00.840 --> 1:00:05.080 enough inventory. Inventory is twenty one percent down, and that 1:00:05.200 --> 1:00:07.560 is the first time we've experienced that since COVID as well. 1:00:07.600 --> 1:00:09.560 It's amazing because sometimes it feels like there's a ton 1:00:09.600 --> 1:00:12.160 of building and stuff going on. Hey, before you go, 1:00:12.320 --> 1:00:14.440 you've got a minute and a half left. Tell us 1:00:14.440 --> 1:00:17.040 about what you're seeing. In terms of international purchases. 1:00:17.360 --> 1:00:20.840 They're coming, they're coming, and it's doubled since twenty twenty four, 1:00:21.200 --> 1:00:24.920 particularly the Chinese market. I mean, when you were dealing 1:00:24.960 --> 1:00:28.920 with strife in your government and the housing market in 1:00:28.960 --> 1:00:30.680 Beijing is kind of upside down. 1:00:30.760 --> 1:00:31.880 I'm not familiar with. 1:00:31.760 --> 1:00:34.480 That market particularly, but in all of the appointments that 1:00:34.520 --> 1:00:38.240 I've had, in all the various kindomniums, they are buying 1:00:38.360 --> 1:00:40.560 some of them are buying with the anticipation of their 1:00:40.640 --> 1:00:43.640 children in the future to be going to school here. 1:00:44.680 --> 1:00:47.720 Where are they buying all over? 1:00:47.880 --> 1:00:52.280 But new developments, particularly matt has always been in Manhattan, Brooklyn, 1:00:52.320 --> 1:00:55.000 Long Island City. We were talking earlier about there are 1:00:55.080 --> 1:01:00.800 some developers that are leaning into the Asian market by 1:01:01.120 --> 1:01:10.160 accepting deposits that are in the Chinese You're on, yeah, 1:01:08.840 --> 1:01:13.480 and that is because they are They're being nimble. We 1:01:14.120 --> 1:01:17.640 have to be nimble. That's new, that's relatively new. There 1:01:17.640 --> 1:01:20.520 are two projects in particular, one is in Long Island 1:01:20.520 --> 1:01:24.240 City and this was news for me. You know, a 1:01:24.320 --> 1:01:25.080 couple of months ago. 1:01:25.240 --> 1:01:26.520 Russian buyers gone. 1:01:26.400 --> 1:01:31.800 Yeah, no, no quiet, quiet, coming back, quietly trying to 1:01:32.040 --> 1:01:36.439 acquire or displace, you know, place assets, but not as 1:01:36.480 --> 1:01:38.680 big as what we experienced when you had the eighty 1:01:38.720 --> 1:01:43.640 eight million fifteen Central Park West transactions like that, midas 1:01:43.960 --> 1:01:48.080 Que Yepes and you have also I think there I 1:01:48.280 --> 1:01:53.320 have had three different Korean transactions this year. I think 1:01:53.360 --> 1:01:56.800 they're quiet. French. I mean, I think people are trying 1:01:56.840 --> 1:02:00.560 to come here. There's there's you know, jargon around the 1:02:00.600 --> 1:02:02.919 Canadians not being happy and. 1:02:04.080 --> 1:02:07.760 If President Trump go does away with a capital gains 1:02:07.800 --> 1:02:08.800 tax on house sales. 1:02:09.200 --> 1:02:11.600 What would that mean? And just got twenty five just. 1:02:11.440 --> 1:02:16.280 To remind everybody when Bush was in the house in 1:02:16.320 --> 1:02:20.720 twenty twelve and he reduced the capital gains to fuel 1:02:20.840 --> 1:02:23.600 our market went on fire in twelve and thirteen. 1:02:24.400 --> 1:02:25.000 Just for that. 1:02:25.000 --> 1:02:27.240 That was like the people that lived on Park Avenue 1:02:27.240 --> 1:02:30.560 and Fifth Avenue for four decades. Finally sold. 1:02:30.680 --> 1:02:33.000 I can only imagine. Louise Phillips Forbes. 1:02:33.040 --> 1:02:34.680 Always fun to check in with you be well, Be 1:02:34.760 --> 1:02:37.600 well Real estate broker Brown Harris Stevens joining us in 1:02:37.640 --> 1:02:39.160 our Bremberg Interactive Broker studio. 1:02:39.240 --> 1:02:39.960 This is Bloomberk. 1:02:45.760 --> 1:02:49.600 This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live 1:02:49.680 --> 1:02:52.600 each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple car 1:02:52.680 --> 1:02:55.640 Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You 1:02:55.680 --> 1:02:58.880 can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship 1:02:58.920 --> 1:03:02.520 New York station, Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 1:03:03.360 --> 1:03:06.120 This weekend wraps up the finale of Monterey Car Week, 1:03:06.160 --> 1:03:08.960 where the California Coast becomes the ultimate showroom for some 1:03:09.000 --> 1:03:12.440 of the world's most extraordinary automobiles and car enthusiasts. 1:03:12.920 --> 1:03:17.000 It ends with their annual event, the Pebble Beach Concord Elegance. 1:03:17.320 --> 1:03:19.880 Sandra Button knows about this event pretty much better than 1:03:19.920 --> 1:03:22.720 anyone else. She's a longtime chair of the Pebble Beach 1:03:22.760 --> 1:03:26.360 concor She previews what makes this year's show so special 1:03:26.840 --> 1:03:29.200 and gives a look into the collector car market. 1:03:29.440 --> 1:03:33.600 The collector car market is really celebrated on this one 1:03:33.680 --> 1:03:36.120 day a year at Pebble Beach when it's sort of 1:03:36.200 --> 1:03:40.160 like the Olympics of cars, and it's a whole symphony 1:03:40.200 --> 1:03:42.520 of different kinds of cars from you know, cars from 1:03:42.560 --> 1:03:46.280 the late eighteen eighties all the way to Formula one 1:03:46.320 --> 1:03:49.880 cars that were just raced this last season. So we 1:03:50.000 --> 1:03:53.320 really all things cars and everything in between. And of 1:03:53.360 --> 1:03:55.960 course you mentioned the beautiful cars from the thirties and 1:03:56.000 --> 1:03:58.560 the swoopy lines. Well, it's all going to be here. 1:03:59.240 --> 1:04:01.560 So how does a car get invited to the show? 1:04:01.640 --> 1:04:04.400 Because is it that the car gets invited, not necessarily 1:04:04.440 --> 1:04:04.960 the owners. 1:04:06.120 --> 1:04:08.640 It's all about the cars. And you know, because we 1:04:08.720 --> 1:04:10.240 have about two we have about two. 1:04:10.240 --> 1:04:12.960 Hundred and fifty cars on the field, and if you 1:04:13.160 --> 1:04:16.480 own a car, that's really important. And let's say it's 1:04:16.520 --> 1:04:18.880 a part of our celebration this year. We're celebrating one 1:04:18.920 --> 1:04:23.280 hundred years of Chrysler. We have Invicta's, Moretti's believe it 1:04:23.400 --> 1:04:26.000 or not, one hundred years of the Rolls Royce Phantom, 1:04:26.040 --> 1:04:30.280 just that one mark of car. So if you own 1:04:30.320 --> 1:04:33.280 one of those cars and it's critical that we have it, 1:04:33.360 --> 1:04:35.280 that it's important to celebrate's. 1:04:35.440 --> 1:04:36.720 That's one way to get invited. 1:04:37.040 --> 1:04:38.800 Hey, I want to ask a little bit more too 1:04:39.000 --> 1:04:41.520 about you know, judging and how it all works. But 1:04:41.640 --> 1:04:43.480 I want to take a step back, Sandra, because this 1:04:43.560 --> 1:04:46.040 is something that has been around for a long time, 1:04:46.160 --> 1:04:48.600 started back in nineteen fifty and I'm just. 1:04:48.720 --> 1:04:51.800 Curious why and how it came to be one of 1:04:51.840 --> 1:04:55.200 the most important prestigious car shows really in the world. 1:04:55.640 --> 1:04:57.840 Something that I think is really cool about the Pebble 1:04:57.840 --> 1:05:02.520 Beach Concourse that we're actually very dynamically organic. The event 1:05:02.640 --> 1:05:05.680 started in nineteen fifty and to be honest, the Pebble 1:05:05.720 --> 1:05:08.320 Beach Concord was just a side show the Pebble Beach 1:05:08.440 --> 1:05:11.360 road races that started in nineteen fifty. They were the 1:05:11.400 --> 1:05:15.800 star event and after the road race is finished then 1:05:16.040 --> 1:05:18.320 it was kind of time to kick tires and take 1:05:18.360 --> 1:05:20.360 a look at cars. And in the very beginning at 1:05:20.360 --> 1:05:24.160 Pebble Beach, the cars were brand new. They were sports 1:05:24.200 --> 1:05:27.840 cars from the fifties, and that kind of changed in 1:05:27.920 --> 1:05:32.200 nineteen fifty five when Phil Hill won with the Piercero 1:05:33.200 --> 1:05:35.600 with an actual, you know, antique car and not a 1:05:35.640 --> 1:05:40.080 brand new car. But Pebble Beach is all about celebrating 1:05:40.160 --> 1:05:44.920 everything automotive, racing, the style, even fashion. 1:05:45.800 --> 1:05:47.760 So I'm glad you got to see it once. It 1:05:47.840 --> 1:05:49.520 was amazing. I have to see the whole event. 1:05:50.080 --> 1:05:53.280 Just you're just driving around the area and there's parades 1:05:53.320 --> 1:05:56.880 through the streets and it's just really, really beautiful and 1:05:56.960 --> 1:05:57.920 really amazing. 1:05:58.080 --> 1:06:01.120 Sandra, I'm curious how in general has the collector's market 1:06:01.240 --> 1:06:03.520 been right now, because typically it's been pretty volatile. 1:06:03.800 --> 1:06:06.160 Well, I think you've mentioned it's been volatile. It's kind 1:06:06.160 --> 1:06:08.720 of like any art market. Of course, it has ups 1:06:08.760 --> 1:06:12.680 and downs. And I would say we're seeing some generational 1:06:12.760 --> 1:06:15.400 shift that a lot of the people that collected the 1:06:15.440 --> 1:06:18.880 cars from the twenties, thirties and forties are aging out 1:06:18.960 --> 1:06:21.760 of the hobby and we're getting newer collectors who are 1:06:21.760 --> 1:06:24.800 maybe looking for things that are more relative to their 1:06:24.840 --> 1:06:27.919 lifestyle or cars that they've seen on the road. So yeah, 1:06:27.920 --> 1:06:31.360 there is that generational shift. There's also the challenge of 1:06:31.680 --> 1:06:35.240 getting these cars restored. Many of the people that have 1:06:35.320 --> 1:06:37.920 worked on the cars, they're aging out as well, and 1:06:37.960 --> 1:06:41.840 there aren't as many people joining the ranks of restorers. 1:06:42.400 --> 1:06:44.919 Hannah wrote a great article today about how a car 1:06:44.960 --> 1:06:48.800 gets ready for Pebble Beach, and you can see that, 1:06:49.080 --> 1:06:52.200 you know, there's not as many people joining that profession 1:06:52.680 --> 1:06:55.520 that are leaving. So it's a great it's a great 1:06:55.680 --> 1:06:57.080 job to look for right now. 1:06:57.280 --> 1:06:58.680 Yeah, I agree with you. 1:06:58.760 --> 1:07:02.000 It's in our weekend Day for Bloomberg and she says, 1:07:02.120 --> 1:07:04.600 you know, she writes, she says that jobs, and she 1:07:04.640 --> 1:07:08.040 talks about one individual in particular, are the most tedious 1:07:08.040 --> 1:07:10.160 in the classic car business, which by its very nature 1:07:10.200 --> 1:07:15.400 tends to tract a select few maniacally devoted artisans. 1:07:15.440 --> 1:07:18.840 But we see that in general, like we talk about that, it's. 1:07:18.760 --> 1:07:21.600 Just not something we've seen certainly happening here in the 1:07:21.680 --> 1:07:22.600 United States. 1:07:22.800 --> 1:07:25.160 I love that you talked about though, a younger. 1:07:24.840 --> 1:07:28.160 Generation, and it's another thing that we talk about, you know, 1:07:28.200 --> 1:07:30.680 who's going to be collecting in the future. What does 1:07:30.680 --> 1:07:34.280 a younger generation of collectors CEDRA mean for the winners 1:07:34.280 --> 1:07:38.720 of the concourse, could a nineteen or nineties car win? Like, 1:07:38.760 --> 1:07:40.920 how do how does that evolve and impact? 1:07:41.520 --> 1:07:44.320 You're right, Younger cars, you know, that aren't as old, 1:07:44.440 --> 1:07:47.520 can be winning. And we have runners up to Best 1:07:47.520 --> 1:07:49.800 of Shows. So you know, we have two hundred cars 1:07:49.840 --> 1:07:52.840 on the field. There's maybe twenty eight classes, so you 1:07:52.960 --> 1:07:55.439 have to win your class to be eligible for Best 1:07:55.440 --> 1:07:59.560 of Show. And of those twenty eight cars usually boils 1:07:59.600 --> 1:08:02.480 down to three or four that are all really in 1:08:02.560 --> 1:08:05.760 contention for Best of Show. So we bring up those 1:08:05.880 --> 1:08:08.840 runner up the nominees for Best of Show. And in 1:08:08.880 --> 1:08:11.880 the last few years, we've had postwar cars we've had 1:08:12.040 --> 1:08:14.920 Last year we had a preservation car that hadn't been 1:08:14.960 --> 1:08:18.120 restored that actually became our winner. But you're right, the 1:08:18.720 --> 1:08:22.519 breadth of the years of those cars is widening, and 1:08:22.560 --> 1:08:24.840 I think it is because of the younger collectors that 1:08:24.920 --> 1:08:28.320 have so much passion. I mean, they really want perfection 1:08:28.439 --> 1:08:33.280 in their cars. They persevere through the restoration project process, 1:08:33.320 --> 1:08:36.080 which can take years, and they really want I think 1:08:36.120 --> 1:08:38.160 they're great stewards because they want the cars to be 1:08:38.280 --> 1:08:41.360 right for the future. So they dig into the history 1:08:41.600 --> 1:08:43.720 and they make sure that when they restore the car 1:08:43.880 --> 1:08:46.680 that they do right by it that they show the 1:08:46.720 --> 1:08:48.400 way that it was really built in the day. 1:08:48.600 --> 1:08:51.200 We're talking with Sandra Button, chairman of the Pebble Beach 1:08:51.240 --> 1:08:55.400 Concorde de Elegance, joining us from Pebble Beach. 1:08:56.160 --> 1:08:58.679 I am curious too about the theme this year. 1:08:58.760 --> 1:09:01.160 My understanding is it you guys are marking seventy five 1:09:01.200 --> 1:09:03.679 years of Formula one racing, So talk to us about 1:09:03.680 --> 1:09:06.000 this theme, how you're going to be celebrating it, and 1:09:06.439 --> 1:09:07.800 why you chose to pick that theme. 1:09:08.080 --> 1:09:10.479 Well, I think seventy five years is a pretty amazing 1:09:11.439 --> 1:09:13.280 you know, it's about the same age as the Pebble 1:09:13.320 --> 1:09:16.760 Beach Concord Elegance. But if you can think about we're 1:09:16.760 --> 1:09:19.120 going to be able to see the entire history of 1:09:19.160 --> 1:09:23.880 Formula one unfold before us, and we're also having a 1:09:23.920 --> 1:09:27.840 class of Grand Prix race cars that pre dated Formula One, 1:09:28.200 --> 1:09:30.080 so you're really going to be able to see the 1:09:30.240 --> 1:09:33.759 entire history of racing along the water at Pebble Beach. 1:09:34.479 --> 1:09:37.920 That's Sandra Button, chairman of the Pebble Beach Concord de Elegance. 1:09:38.000 --> 1:09:40.320 And Sandra came to us thanks to Bloomberg's Hannah Elliott, 1:09:40.320 --> 1:09:42.360 who's been right in the middle of all the action 1:09:42.479 --> 1:09:43.559 Tim at Pebble Beach. 1:09:43.920 --> 1:09:46.719 She's walking the fairway, taking in the really cool rare cars, 1:09:46.760 --> 1:09:50.040 the crowds and the excitement. Of course, we're talking about 1:09:50.040 --> 1:09:53.559 our car expert, Bloomberg News auto columnist Hannah Elliott. 1:09:53.800 --> 1:09:56.360 So this is a big year. It's the seventy fourth 1:09:56.479 --> 1:09:59.880 year of the Pebble Beach Concord Elegance. This year the 1:10:00.000 --> 1:10:03.680 they are celebrating seventy five years of Formula One. So 1:10:03.720 --> 1:10:05.960 the big thing on Sunday, which is when the main 1:10:06.040 --> 1:10:08.639 car show is is they're going to have thirty old 1:10:08.760 --> 1:10:12.439 vintage classic Formula one cars on the lawn, which I 1:10:12.439 --> 1:10:16.559 don't think we've seen a big group that significant of 1:10:16.640 --> 1:10:19.920 F one cars ever. So that's really the emphasis. We 1:10:20.080 --> 1:10:23.280 had the opening tour of the Concore, which is where 1:10:23.320 --> 1:10:25.120 all of the cars that are going to be shown 1:10:25.160 --> 1:10:29.920 on Sunday must complete a drive down the Peninsula, down 1:10:30.320 --> 1:10:33.680 to Bigsur, across the bridge and then come back. And 1:10:33.760 --> 1:10:36.000 that is to prove that they are running driving cars. 1:10:36.000 --> 1:10:40.439 These aren't just you know, garage trailer queens. They can drive. 1:10:41.160 --> 1:10:42.920 I was fortunate enough to be able to drive in 1:10:42.960 --> 1:10:45.320 that as well. I drove in a modern car. But 1:10:45.479 --> 1:10:48.679 that's actually the really big kickoff to what we can 1:10:48.880 --> 1:10:50.920 look forward to on Sunday. And then of course we've 1:10:50.920 --> 1:10:53.599 got auctions, which is a really big two selling similar 1:10:53.800 --> 1:10:55.840 you know, vintage and classic and collectible cars. 1:10:55.960 --> 1:10:57.880 What's a lot going on. Tell us about the collector 1:10:57.920 --> 1:10:58.559 car market. 1:10:58.600 --> 1:11:00.800 You know, you were kind enough to link us up 1:11:00.800 --> 1:11:04.000 with Sandra Button, chairman of the Pebble Beach Concord to Elegance, 1:11:04.439 --> 1:11:06.880 and we talked a lot about kind of the changing 1:11:06.960 --> 1:11:11.519 marketplace and maybe the interest or lack thereof, maybe among 1:11:11.560 --> 1:11:12.400 younger buyers. 1:11:12.439 --> 1:11:15.200 But it's evolving. Tell us about the marketplace right now. 1:11:15.560 --> 1:11:16.600 It is evolving. 1:11:16.760 --> 1:11:20.080 Historically, this has been really a celebration of pre war 1:11:20.240 --> 1:11:24.080 cars and cars from the fifties and sixties, and we 1:11:24.280 --> 1:11:27.160 are seeing that changing just because the people buying the 1:11:27.200 --> 1:11:31.080 cars are changing. It's coming into a new demographic, people 1:11:31.120 --> 1:11:33.960 who grew up with cars from the eighties and nineties 1:11:33.960 --> 1:11:37.679 and even the early two thousands, like Lamborghini, Kuntash's Ferrari 1:11:37.840 --> 1:11:40.559 F forties and f fifties. We're talking about that kind 1:11:40.560 --> 1:11:43.880 of era of car becoming more popular in the auctions 1:11:44.160 --> 1:11:47.559 and that is a trickle down effect. Everywhere. So, for instance, 1:11:47.880 --> 1:11:50.200 back to the Concoor on Sunday, we have never seen 1:11:50.240 --> 1:11:53.400 a non pre war car win. But as Sandra kind 1:11:53.400 --> 1:11:56.080 of alluded to, I think we're moving toward that point 1:11:56.560 --> 1:11:59.680 and the whole market is following that. Of course, you've 1:11:59.680 --> 1:12:02.559 got the Duesenbergs and the Packards and all of these 1:12:02.600 --> 1:12:07.639 really Rolls Royce's expensive multimillion dollar pre war cars. Those 1:12:07.800 --> 1:12:12.800 still exist, but there is a big up swell of 1:12:12.920 --> 1:12:18.760 these nineties and early two thousands Mercedes, Lamborghinis Ferraris that 1:12:18.840 --> 1:12:21.800 are really coming on strong, and I think that's where 1:12:21.800 --> 1:12:22.479 the market's going. 1:12:22.600 --> 1:12:25.240 I love that these are considered classic cars. Nothing, you know, 1:12:25.479 --> 1:12:28.880 these are like cars. Yes, I do feel old, thank 1:12:28.880 --> 1:12:30.400 you very much. I mean these are cars that I 1:12:30.439 --> 1:12:32.000 was reading, you know, the scene on the cover of 1:12:32.080 --> 1:12:35.040 like Car and Driver and Road and Track when I 1:12:35.080 --> 1:12:37.479 was growing up. You know, my dad had descriptions to 1:12:37.479 --> 1:12:38.520 all of these things. 1:12:38.960 --> 1:12:42.080 Completely and these things tend to go in thirty year cycles. 1:12:42.320 --> 1:12:45.519 So that is sort of the general rule of thumb. 1:12:45.560 --> 1:12:48.519 Whatever you grew up with the poster on your wall, yeah, 1:12:48.600 --> 1:12:51.120 thirty years later, maybe you can afford it. 1:12:53.360 --> 1:12:55.840 Wait, so the car I actually grew up, they like 1:12:55.920 --> 1:12:57.679 Driftwood Estate station Wagon. 1:12:57.760 --> 1:12:58.839 That was massive. 1:12:59.439 --> 1:13:03.160 That's a It was massive. It was like it just 1:13:03.160 --> 1:13:04.240 went on forever and ever. 1:13:05.080 --> 1:13:06.040 Yeah, called it the trade. 1:13:07.960 --> 1:13:10.680 Hey, before we let you go, what who's going to 1:13:10.760 --> 1:13:13.599 work on these cars? You've got a great story out 1:13:13.880 --> 1:13:18.080 about the dwindling numbers of mechanics who work on classic cars. 1:13:18.120 --> 1:13:19.400 You have a classic. 1:13:19.000 --> 1:13:20.680 Car, Yeah I do. 1:13:20.800 --> 1:13:23.040 I've got an old Rolls Royce and the man who 1:13:23.080 --> 1:13:25.839 looks after it is in his eighties. And I'm not joking. 1:13:26.160 --> 1:13:28.679 And that gets to your question. The people who work 1:13:28.720 --> 1:13:31.360 on these old classic cars tend to be on the 1:13:31.400 --> 1:13:35.280 older side. You know, if you're talking to a teenager 1:13:35.360 --> 1:13:39.080 about spending hundreds of hours in a back room somewhere 1:13:39.160 --> 1:13:41.840 learning how to press metal, that doesn't necessarily sound as 1:13:41.880 --> 1:13:44.800 fun as some of the other job opportunities right now. 1:13:44.880 --> 1:13:47.439 So there is a big gap between the people who 1:13:47.479 --> 1:13:50.360 look after the cars and trying to get younger people 1:13:50.520 --> 1:13:56.080 involved in this trade. There are some colleges like McPherson 1:13:56.120 --> 1:13:59.960 College which do have great restoration programs to teach younger 1:14:00.080 --> 1:14:02.160 people how to work on these cars, because at the 1:14:02.240 --> 1:14:04.680 end of the day, the love of the cars is 1:14:04.720 --> 1:14:06.920 going to stick around. The cars might change. We might 1:14:06.960 --> 1:14:10.880 go from pre war to Akontosh or a Gallardo, but 1:14:11.240 --> 1:14:13.120 it's still the car that needs to be worked on. 1:14:13.280 --> 1:14:16.639 So there's a gap right now, but there is some 1:14:16.800 --> 1:14:21.080 slow growth toward trying to get younger people involved. It's like, 1:14:21.120 --> 1:14:23.160 if anyone thinks they want to learn a trade, this 1:14:23.160 --> 1:14:24.400 would be a good one to go into. 1:14:24.800 --> 1:14:28.200 Our thanks to Hannah Elliott, Bloomberg News autocolumnist. Check out 1:14:28.240 --> 1:14:31.200 Hannah's podcast. She co hosts it with Matt Miller. It's 1:14:31.200 --> 1:14:33.840 called Hot Pursuit and in the episode they go into 1:14:33.880 --> 1:14:36.559 full detail of the cars that she saw it Cubble Beach. 1:14:36.920 --> 1:14:39.400 You can find it at Bloomberg dot com Slash Podcasts. 1:14:39.439 --> 1:14:41.479 And that wraps up the weekend edition at Bloomberg business 1:14:41.520 --> 1:14:42.559 Week from Bloomberg Radio. 1:14:42.560 --> 1:14:43.840 Thank you so much for joining us. 1:14:44.160 --> 1:14:46.519 I'm Tim Stenober and I'm Carol Messer. Have a good 1:14:46.520 --> 1:14:47.920 and safe weekend everyone. 1:14:48.560 --> 1:14:53.920 This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, 1:14:54.040 --> 1:14:57.759 and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday 1:14:57.800 --> 1:15:01.839 afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, 1:15:01.880 --> 1:15:05.760 the iHeartRadio app tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. 1:15:06.000 --> 1:15:08.759 You can also watch US live every weekday on YouTube 1:15:09.000 --> 1:15:11.120 and always on the Bloomberg terminal