1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:24,396 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey, Happiness Lab listeners, welcome back to our Happiness 2 00:00:24,396 --> 00:00:26,956 Speaker 1: Hot Take series, a whole season in which I call 3 00:00:26,956 --> 00:00:29,436 Speaker 1: out the bad happiness advice that I so often hear 4 00:00:29,556 --> 00:00:32,156 Speaker 1: on the internet. Today, we'll be going back to an 5 00:00:32,156 --> 00:00:34,916 Speaker 1: episode from the very first season of the show to 6 00:00:34,956 --> 00:00:37,556 Speaker 1: revisit the hot take that I get the most pushback 7 00:00:37,596 --> 00:00:40,796 Speaker 1: about the idea that more money doesn't necessarily make you 8 00:00:40,836 --> 00:00:43,836 Speaker 1: happier and it certainly doesn't guarantee a happy ending. 9 00:00:44,516 --> 00:00:44,636 Speaker 2: Us. 10 00:00:44,836 --> 00:00:47,916 Speaker 1: That's okay, because, as we'll learn in today's episode, happy 11 00:00:47,996 --> 00:00:51,396 Speaker 1: endings are sort of overrated to begin with. Here's this 12 00:00:51,476 --> 00:00:53,596 Speaker 1: week's in case you missed it, Happiness hot take. 13 00:00:53,756 --> 00:00:58,316 Speaker 3: I hope you enjoy him. 14 00:00:58,356 --> 00:01:00,836 Speaker 1: It was the worst thing that ever happened to me. 15 00:01:02,516 --> 00:01:05,276 Speaker 1: These were the words uttered by Billy Bob Harrold Jr. 16 00:01:06,036 --> 00:01:09,116 Speaker 1: A man whose life had been unremarkable before a fateful 17 00:01:09,196 --> 00:01:13,116 Speaker 1: event that ruined everything on June twenty eighth, nineteen ninety seven. 18 00:01:15,356 --> 00:01:18,476 Speaker 1: Before that worst thing ever event occurred, Billy Bob was 19 00:01:18,516 --> 00:01:22,036 Speaker 1: a relatively happy, middle aged Texan. He was a religious 20 00:01:22,036 --> 00:01:24,916 Speaker 1: family man who cared deeply about his parents, his wife, 21 00:01:24,916 --> 00:01:29,196 Speaker 1: Barber Jean, and their three children. Billy Bob worked at 22 00:01:29,196 --> 00:01:33,116 Speaker 1: the local home depot, stocking shelves with electrical equipment. It 23 00:01:33,236 --> 00:01:35,916 Speaker 1: wasn't the most lucrative career, but Billy Bob and his 24 00:01:35,956 --> 00:01:38,596 Speaker 1: wife found ways to make ends me His life, by 25 00:01:38,636 --> 00:01:43,316 Speaker 1: all accounts, was relatively blessed, but one hot summer evening 26 00:01:43,756 --> 00:01:48,876 Speaker 1: everything changed. Within months, his marriage had fallen apart. His 27 00:01:48,956 --> 00:01:53,276 Speaker 1: beloved Barbergine filed for divorce. Billy Bob tried dating younger woman, 28 00:01:53,556 --> 00:01:57,396 Speaker 1: but still felt terrible. He lost almost fifty pounds, making 29 00:01:57,476 --> 00:02:01,116 Speaker 1: him look sickly and gaunt. His children would later say 30 00:02:01,156 --> 00:02:04,996 Speaker 1: that his personality completely changed. He switched from the happy 31 00:02:05,076 --> 00:02:09,556 Speaker 1: dad they knew into a moody, depressive. In May of 32 00:02:09,636 --> 00:02:12,796 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine, less than two years after that incident 33 00:02:12,796 --> 00:02:16,036 Speaker 1: which I've not yet named, Billy Bob couldn't take it anymore. 34 00:02:16,676 --> 00:02:19,196 Speaker 1: He locked himself in his master bedroom and took his 35 00:02:19,236 --> 00:02:25,516 Speaker 1: own life. So what was that worst thing ever occurrence, 36 00:02:25,916 --> 00:02:29,036 Speaker 1: that awful event that destroyed Billy Bob's family and his 37 00:02:29,276 --> 00:02:34,116 Speaker 1: entire life. It was this Billy Bob won the Lotto 38 00:02:34,196 --> 00:02:35,116 Speaker 1: Texas Jackpond. 39 00:02:35,476 --> 00:02:38,356 Speaker 4: Good Evening and Welcome to the Official Lotto Texas Drive. 40 00:02:38,676 --> 00:02:44,276 Speaker 1: In a split second. He was thirty one million dollars richer. Now, 41 00:02:44,436 --> 00:02:47,156 Speaker 1: that probably wasn't the kind of worst ever event you 42 00:02:47,156 --> 00:02:50,716 Speaker 1: are imagining. When we think of tragedies, we imagine the 43 00:02:50,756 --> 00:02:53,996 Speaker 1: death of a family member, some disfiguring car crash, or 44 00:02:54,036 --> 00:02:58,196 Speaker 1: total financial ruin. What Billy Bob experience is actually something 45 00:02:58,236 --> 00:03:01,916 Speaker 1: many of us yearn for. He became a multi millionaire overnight. 46 00:03:02,556 --> 00:03:06,356 Speaker 1: He was suddenly rich beyond his wildest dreams, wealthy enough 47 00:03:06,356 --> 00:03:08,796 Speaker 1: to quit his job and to buy whatever he and 48 00:03:08,836 --> 00:03:12,276 Speaker 1: his we needed for the rest of their lives. But 49 00:03:12,356 --> 00:03:16,156 Speaker 1: the wonderful fortune he literally prayed for is certainly didn't 50 00:03:16,156 --> 00:03:20,436 Speaker 1: make him as happy as he expected. I bet you 51 00:03:20,596 --> 00:03:23,516 Speaker 1: think that wouldn't be the case for you. Most of 52 00:03:23,596 --> 00:03:26,116 Speaker 1: us are convinced that making tons of money would feel good, 53 00:03:26,676 --> 00:03:30,196 Speaker 1: but as it turns out, we're probably wrong, and not 54 00:03:30,276 --> 00:03:33,676 Speaker 1: just about money. Research shows that we suck at predicting 55 00:03:33,716 --> 00:03:37,636 Speaker 1: what will make us happy generally, both when we're imagining 56 00:03:37,636 --> 00:03:39,916 Speaker 1: how we'll feel when we get what we want, the 57 00:03:39,956 --> 00:03:42,876 Speaker 1: good stuff like hitting the jackpot, getting the perfect job, 58 00:03:42,916 --> 00:03:46,236 Speaker 1: being accepted to our dream school, but also when we 59 00:03:46,316 --> 00:03:49,676 Speaker 1: envision some of the worst events a person could possibly endure. 60 00:03:50,716 --> 00:03:54,436 Speaker 1: Why are we so bad at making these predictions. What's 61 00:03:54,516 --> 00:04:01,436 Speaker 1: going wrong? Our minds are constantly telling us what to 62 00:04:01,436 --> 00:04:04,036 Speaker 1: do to be happy. But what if our minds are wrong? 63 00:04:04,596 --> 00:04:06,916 Speaker 1: What if our minds are lying to us, leading us 64 00:04:06,996 --> 00:04:10,396 Speaker 1: away from what will really make us happy. The good 65 00:04:10,396 --> 00:04:13,156 Speaker 1: news is that understanding the science of the mind can 66 00:04:13,236 --> 00:04:16,876 Speaker 1: win us all back in the right direction. You're listening 67 00:04:16,996 --> 00:04:19,516 Speaker 1: to the Happiness Lab the doctor Laurie Sandoz. 68 00:04:25,516 --> 00:04:28,796 Speaker 5: If you have an enemy, go buy them a lottery ticket, 69 00:04:29,596 --> 00:04:33,316 Speaker 5: because on the off chance that they win, their life 70 00:04:33,356 --> 00:04:34,636 Speaker 5: is going to be really messed up. 71 00:04:35,316 --> 00:04:38,556 Speaker 1: I'm speaking with Clay Cockrell. He knows that the misery 72 00:04:38,596 --> 00:04:42,116 Speaker 1: Billy Bob experienced after winning the lottery wasn't a one off. 73 00:04:42,796 --> 00:04:47,196 Speaker 1: Clay's a clinical social worker and psychotherapist. His business address 74 00:04:47,316 --> 00:04:49,876 Speaker 1: is up near Columbus Circle in New York City, but 75 00:04:49,876 --> 00:04:52,116 Speaker 1: more often than not he can be found in Central 76 00:04:52,156 --> 00:04:54,156 Speaker 1: Park or on the banks of the Hudson River. 77 00:04:54,476 --> 00:04:56,956 Speaker 5: I do something unusual in that I walk with my 78 00:04:57,036 --> 00:05:00,196 Speaker 5: clients instead of meeting in an office, walk and talk. 79 00:05:00,236 --> 00:05:01,596 Speaker 5: I think better on my feet. 80 00:05:02,076 --> 00:05:05,396 Speaker 1: His methods as a psychotherapist or novel, but Clay also 81 00:05:05,476 --> 00:05:07,636 Speaker 1: works with a rather particular clientele. 82 00:05:08,196 --> 00:05:12,836 Speaker 5: About ten years ago, I started working with the super 83 00:05:12,876 --> 00:05:16,116 Speaker 5: wealthy people in the one percent of the one percent. 84 00:05:16,596 --> 00:05:20,556 Speaker 5: Somehow my name got passed around this very small world 85 00:05:21,036 --> 00:05:26,196 Speaker 5: as someone who doesn't bring judgment. So if you're struggling 86 00:05:26,396 --> 00:05:29,476 Speaker 5: with I can't find a place to park my yacht, 87 00:05:30,156 --> 00:05:32,396 Speaker 5: I have no judgment about that. I'm going to help you. 88 00:05:32,396 --> 00:05:34,796 Speaker 5: Your problem is as real as someone else's. 89 00:05:35,116 --> 00:05:37,556 Speaker 1: Clay finds that providing counsel to the richest of the 90 00:05:37,636 --> 00:05:40,836 Speaker 1: rich generates a certain amount of hostility from the other 91 00:05:40,956 --> 00:05:43,276 Speaker 1: ninety nine point nine to nine percent who think the 92 00:05:43,316 --> 00:05:47,196 Speaker 1: megawealthy have it pretty good. Being anxious about yacht parking 93 00:05:47,356 --> 00:05:50,236 Speaker 1: doesn't play well with well with most people. 94 00:05:50,276 --> 00:05:54,156 Speaker 5: Honestly, the general public, when they find out what I do, 95 00:05:54,196 --> 00:05:57,236 Speaker 5: they don't have a lot of sympathy because they've bought 96 00:05:57,276 --> 00:06:00,476 Speaker 5: into this idea that they have a certain amount of 97 00:06:00,476 --> 00:06:02,476 Speaker 5: problems that are related to money, and they have this 98 00:06:02,596 --> 00:06:05,516 Speaker 5: belief that if I have money, my problems will go away. 99 00:06:06,196 --> 00:06:08,116 Speaker 5: But when they find out that there's somebody out there 100 00:06:08,156 --> 00:06:10,996 Speaker 5: that has a lot of money and they still have problems, 101 00:06:11,436 --> 00:06:14,876 Speaker 5: it busts that fantasy. So this thing that they're working 102 00:06:14,956 --> 00:06:16,476 Speaker 5: toward I just need a little bit more money is 103 00:06:16,476 --> 00:06:20,036 Speaker 5: going to solve my problems. It really challenges that belief system. 104 00:06:20,276 --> 00:06:23,116 Speaker 1: Clay's right that most people believe they just need a 105 00:06:23,116 --> 00:06:26,156 Speaker 1: little bit more income for their troubles to end. One 106 00:06:26,196 --> 00:06:29,156 Speaker 1: study asks people, how much money would you really need 107 00:06:29,196 --> 00:06:31,996 Speaker 1: to be happy? What's an income level that if you 108 00:06:32,076 --> 00:06:35,916 Speaker 1: got it, you wouldn't need any more. People who are 109 00:06:35,956 --> 00:06:39,156 Speaker 1: currently earning thirty thousand dollars a year say they'd need 110 00:06:39,196 --> 00:06:42,716 Speaker 1: fifty k to be happier, which makes sense, but douke 111 00:06:42,756 --> 00:06:45,796 Speaker 1: folks who actually earn fifty K think that was all 112 00:06:45,836 --> 00:06:50,236 Speaker 1: that's needed. Not really. People earning twice that much one 113 00:06:50,276 --> 00:06:53,756 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars said they'd need a salary of two 114 00:06:53,876 --> 00:06:57,156 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty k to truly be happy. 115 00:06:57,196 --> 00:07:02,436 Speaker 5: This myth more money equals happiness. So I just got 116 00:07:02,436 --> 00:07:03,076 Speaker 5: to get some more. 117 00:07:03,156 --> 00:07:03,916 Speaker 4: I'll get there. 118 00:07:04,156 --> 00:07:05,356 Speaker 5: I just got to get some more. 119 00:07:06,316 --> 00:07:09,276 Speaker 1: We've all heard that money can't buy you happiness, but 120 00:07:09,356 --> 00:07:13,476 Speaker 1: is that really true? Two Nobel Prize winning scientists, Danny 121 00:07:13,556 --> 00:07:17,556 Speaker 1: Knnoman and Angus Dean teamed up to find out. They 122 00:07:17,636 --> 00:07:20,956 Speaker 1: tested how annual salary in the US today affects three 123 00:07:20,996 --> 00:07:23,996 Speaker 1: different measures of well being. What did they find well, 124 00:07:24,036 --> 00:07:26,676 Speaker 1: It turns out that income does affect well being for 125 00:07:26,756 --> 00:07:29,916 Speaker 1: people at lower salary levels. If you earn ten or 126 00:07:29,916 --> 00:07:32,716 Speaker 1: twenty thousand dollars, then earning more will make you feel 127 00:07:32,756 --> 00:07:36,516 Speaker 1: less stressed and happier. But that effect of income on 128 00:07:36,556 --> 00:07:39,636 Speaker 1: well being starts to level off, and it does so 129 00:07:40,036 --> 00:07:42,716 Speaker 1: really quickly. Based on their. 130 00:07:42,676 --> 00:07:46,076 Speaker 5: Estimate, it is much better to earn seventy thousand than 131 00:07:46,156 --> 00:07:48,836 Speaker 5: forty thousand. Life is a lot different, but it's not 132 00:07:48,916 --> 00:07:51,556 Speaker 5: a lot different from seventy thousand to one hundred and 133 00:07:51,596 --> 00:07:52,836 Speaker 5: fifty or two fifty. 134 00:07:53,356 --> 00:07:56,156 Speaker 1: Connoment and Dan found that once you're earning an annual 135 00:07:56,156 --> 00:07:59,636 Speaker 1: income of seventy five thousand dollars, getting more doesn't help. 136 00:08:00,316 --> 00:08:03,796 Speaker 1: You don't get less stressed or happier. Your well being 137 00:08:04,116 --> 00:08:07,836 Speaker 1: just flat lines even if you double or even quadruple 138 00:08:07,876 --> 00:08:12,036 Speaker 1: your salary. That's what the data suggest, but it's definitely 139 00:08:12,116 --> 00:08:17,236 Speaker 1: not what most of us believe. Hey, Happiness Lab listeners, 140 00:08:17,596 --> 00:08:20,276 Speaker 1: this is doctor Laurie Santos in twenty twenty six, coming 141 00:08:20,316 --> 00:08:23,396 Speaker 1: to you live with an important research update. Back when 142 00:08:23,436 --> 00:08:26,236 Speaker 1: we recorded this episode in twenty nineteen, the study I 143 00:08:26,396 --> 00:08:28,796 Speaker 1: just described was the final word when it came to 144 00:08:28,836 --> 00:08:32,876 Speaker 1: money and happiness. But as you probably know, science isn't stagnant, 145 00:08:33,156 --> 00:08:35,436 Speaker 1: and in the year since we recorded this episode, there's 146 00:08:35,436 --> 00:08:37,916 Speaker 1: been a few important updates, so I couldn't help but 147 00:08:37,996 --> 00:08:40,476 Speaker 1: time travel in from the future to tell you about them. 148 00:08:40,916 --> 00:08:45,236 Speaker 1: Update number one is drum roll inflation. That seventy five 149 00:08:45,276 --> 00:08:48,796 Speaker 1: thousand dollars cutoff I mentioned that was in twenty ten dollars. 150 00:08:49,156 --> 00:08:52,036 Speaker 1: Adjusting for inflation, the same cutoff in twenty twenty six 151 00:08:52,076 --> 00:08:54,756 Speaker 1: dollars would be more like one hundred and fifteen thousand 152 00:08:54,756 --> 00:08:57,756 Speaker 1: dollars ish. Update number two is that there have been 153 00:08:57,796 --> 00:09:01,156 Speaker 1: a few new papers on this connection between money and happiness. 154 00:09:01,716 --> 00:09:04,916 Speaker 1: The first is a twenty twenty one paper by Matt Killingsworth, 155 00:09:05,156 --> 00:09:07,676 Speaker 1: which used a new and improved measure of people's well being, 156 00:09:08,116 --> 00:09:10,596 Speaker 1: one in which people were pinged at different times during 157 00:09:10,636 --> 00:09:13,116 Speaker 1: the day and asked about their happiness in the moment. 158 00:09:13,676 --> 00:09:16,516 Speaker 1: This new method prevents people from forgetting how they actually 159 00:09:16,516 --> 00:09:19,356 Speaker 1: felt at different times, which is just better for answering 160 00:09:19,396 --> 00:09:23,676 Speaker 1: how money really makes people feel. What did Killingsworth find well? First, 161 00:09:23,716 --> 00:09:26,076 Speaker 1: his results showed the same thing that that Connomin and 162 00:09:26,156 --> 00:09:29,276 Speaker 1: d and study found before people at incomes lower than 163 00:09:29,316 --> 00:09:32,236 Speaker 1: seventy five thousand dollars would definitely be happier if they 164 00:09:32,276 --> 00:09:35,636 Speaker 1: got more money. But Killingsworth's new study also showed that 165 00:09:35,636 --> 00:09:38,436 Speaker 1: there continues to be a connection between money and happiness 166 00:09:38,516 --> 00:09:41,476 Speaker 1: even at higher incomes, but the effect he found is 167 00:09:41,636 --> 00:09:45,356 Speaker 1: really really tiny. Ergo more money after a certain level 168 00:09:45,436 --> 00:09:48,316 Speaker 1: might make you a tiny bit happier, but definitely not 169 00:09:48,436 --> 00:09:51,276 Speaker 1: as happy as you think. But more recently, in twenty 170 00:09:51,316 --> 00:09:54,156 Speaker 1: twenty three, there was an even cooler paper that tested 171 00:09:54,156 --> 00:09:57,356 Speaker 1: the same question, and that paper involved a tag team 172 00:09:57,436 --> 00:10:00,276 Speaker 1: between Matt Killingsworth, the researcher I just mentioned who did 173 00:10:00,316 --> 00:10:03,716 Speaker 1: the twenty twenty one paper, and Danny Conneman, the guy 174 00:10:03,716 --> 00:10:06,396 Speaker 1: who did the original paper that Killingsworth had kind of 175 00:10:06,436 --> 00:10:09,996 Speaker 1: shown was wrong. In research, this is what's known as 176 00:10:10,036 --> 00:10:13,876 Speaker 1: an adversarial collaboration. Two people who disagree about a set 177 00:10:13,876 --> 00:10:16,356 Speaker 1: of findings agree to come together to do one final 178 00:10:16,396 --> 00:10:19,796 Speaker 1: paper that's going to resolve the disagreement for good. And 179 00:10:19,836 --> 00:10:22,676 Speaker 1: that's what Connoment and Killingsworth did. They went back to 180 00:10:22,716 --> 00:10:26,116 Speaker 1: Connoment's original data and broke it down by happy and 181 00:10:26,196 --> 00:10:29,276 Speaker 1: not so happy people, and what they found is pretty cool. 182 00:10:29,956 --> 00:10:32,756 Speaker 1: All people at lower levels of income get happier as 183 00:10:32,796 --> 00:10:35,996 Speaker 1: their income rises, but after a certain level. That slope 184 00:10:35,996 --> 00:10:39,236 Speaker 1: looks different for happy and not so happy people. For 185 00:10:39,316 --> 00:10:42,236 Speaker 1: not so happy people, more money after one hundred thousand 186 00:10:42,276 --> 00:10:45,516 Speaker 1: dollars has no effect on your happiness. But if you're 187 00:10:45,556 --> 00:10:48,716 Speaker 1: already happy, then getting more money after one hundred thousand 188 00:10:48,756 --> 00:10:51,276 Speaker 1: dollars actually seems to make you a tiny bit happier. 189 00:10:51,796 --> 00:10:54,636 Speaker 1: But even for these already happy people, the size of 190 00:10:54,636 --> 00:10:58,236 Speaker 1: that effect is still really, really tiny. So what should 191 00:10:58,276 --> 00:11:00,556 Speaker 1: we conclude from this new work. Well, if you're not 192 00:11:00,596 --> 00:11:03,196 Speaker 1: so happy, then getting more money after one hundred thousand 193 00:11:03,236 --> 00:11:06,196 Speaker 1: dollars is probably not going to help. If you're already 194 00:11:06,196 --> 00:11:09,116 Speaker 1: pretty happy, then getting lots more money might make you 195 00:11:09,116 --> 00:11:12,596 Speaker 1: so a teeny teeny tiny bit happier. And the emphasis 196 00:11:12,596 --> 00:11:15,876 Speaker 1: should be on the teeny teeny tiny part, because even 197 00:11:15,956 --> 00:11:19,076 Speaker 1: quadrupling your income, the best you'll get is about five 198 00:11:19,156 --> 00:11:22,396 Speaker 1: points on one hundred point happiness scale. This is about 199 00:11:22,396 --> 00:11:24,596 Speaker 1: the same level of happiness boost that you could get 200 00:11:24,756 --> 00:11:27,476 Speaker 1: by scribbling in a gratitude journal once a week or 201 00:11:27,516 --> 00:11:31,076 Speaker 1: exercising an extra twenty minutes. It's a super small effect 202 00:11:31,116 --> 00:11:34,996 Speaker 1: for something as huge as quadrupling your income. So does 203 00:11:35,036 --> 00:11:38,156 Speaker 1: more money really make us happier after a certain income level. 204 00:11:38,236 --> 00:11:41,716 Speaker 1: The answer seems to be not really and definitely not 205 00:11:41,836 --> 00:11:44,916 Speaker 1: as much as we think. Okay, enough nerding out about 206 00:11:44,916 --> 00:11:47,596 Speaker 1: new science. Back to our originally scheduled episode. 207 00:11:48,996 --> 00:11:50,716 Speaker 5: When I first got out of grad school, I made 208 00:11:50,756 --> 00:11:53,116 Speaker 5: fourteen thousand dollars a year, and I was, Wow, this 209 00:11:53,236 --> 00:11:55,636 Speaker 5: is amazing. So you begin to think, Okay, there's a 210 00:11:55,636 --> 00:11:59,236 Speaker 5: correlation here. More money equals a better life, and that 211 00:11:59,356 --> 00:12:02,476 Speaker 5: keeps working until you get to around seventy five eighty 212 00:12:02,516 --> 00:12:05,276 Speaker 5: thousand dollars and your basic needs are met. But you've 213 00:12:05,356 --> 00:12:09,196 Speaker 5: learned a lesson more money incrementally is going to make 214 00:12:09,276 --> 00:12:12,996 Speaker 5: you happier and your life easier. But you start getting 215 00:12:13,036 --> 00:12:14,876 Speaker 5: more and more money and more and more money, and 216 00:12:15,276 --> 00:12:17,036 Speaker 5: it's not working like it used to when I went 217 00:12:17,036 --> 00:12:19,316 Speaker 5: from fourteen to thirty five. I just need to work 218 00:12:19,356 --> 00:12:21,116 Speaker 5: a little harder and get up to two fifty. 219 00:12:21,676 --> 00:12:25,036 Speaker 1: Our intuition that more money equals more happiness means we 220 00:12:25,036 --> 00:12:27,876 Speaker 1: don't realize the host of problems that come with being 221 00:12:27,916 --> 00:12:31,756 Speaker 1: incredibly rich. But Clay has seen these problems firsthand in 222 00:12:31,796 --> 00:12:32,796 Speaker 1: his many clients. 223 00:12:33,156 --> 00:12:35,716 Speaker 5: They struggle, they're not sleeping at night, they don't have 224 00:12:35,756 --> 00:12:36,836 Speaker 5: good relationships. 225 00:12:37,276 --> 00:12:40,876 Speaker 1: One of the most common problems Clayc's is guilt. The 226 00:12:40,916 --> 00:12:43,596 Speaker 1: wealthy also buy into the idea that money brings happiness. 227 00:12:44,196 --> 00:12:47,396 Speaker 1: That cognitive dissonance of being so rich yet so sad 228 00:12:47,836 --> 00:12:49,756 Speaker 1: can pitch them into emotional turmoil. 229 00:12:50,116 --> 00:12:53,356 Speaker 5: My life isn't perfect, but it should be. I shouldn't complain. 230 00:12:53,476 --> 00:12:56,596 Speaker 5: I shouldn't seek psychotherapy to help me deal with my 231 00:12:56,876 --> 00:12:59,596 Speaker 5: problems because I really shouldn't have them. 232 00:12:59,796 --> 00:13:02,956 Speaker 1: And like Billy Bob Harrell, after hitting the jackpot, the 233 00:13:03,036 --> 00:13:06,036 Speaker 1: rich often struggle in their close relations. 234 00:13:05,996 --> 00:13:08,196 Speaker 5: It's hard to trust because they've been burned a lot 235 00:13:09,356 --> 00:13:13,436 Speaker 5: in romantic relationships. And then you get into prenuptial agreements 236 00:13:13,516 --> 00:13:17,076 Speaker 5: and are you only getting into this relationship because I'm 237 00:13:17,076 --> 00:13:18,436 Speaker 5: going to buy you nice things? 238 00:13:18,996 --> 00:13:21,676 Speaker 1: Even casual friendships can be hard to maintain. 239 00:13:22,116 --> 00:13:24,916 Speaker 5: They call it the one percent for a reason. There's 240 00:13:24,956 --> 00:13:26,916 Speaker 5: not a lot of people out there that have this 241 00:13:27,036 --> 00:13:30,556 Speaker 5: kind of money, so a majority of the population, on 242 00:13:30,556 --> 00:13:32,756 Speaker 5: a fundamental level, you're not going to be able to 243 00:13:32,796 --> 00:13:36,116 Speaker 5: relate to. There's a lot of isolation. Are you being 244 00:13:36,156 --> 00:13:38,556 Speaker 5: my friend because of my bank account? If we go 245 00:13:38,596 --> 00:13:41,076 Speaker 5: out to lunch, am I just expected to pick up 246 00:13:41,236 --> 00:13:44,116 Speaker 5: the tab? When you're talking about your weekend? I had 247 00:13:44,116 --> 00:13:47,396 Speaker 5: this one client that got to be friends at the 248 00:13:47,436 --> 00:13:50,236 Speaker 5: local gym, and that weekend he just happened to have 249 00:13:50,716 --> 00:13:52,916 Speaker 5: taken his private jet to Paris to try out this 250 00:13:53,036 --> 00:13:56,756 Speaker 5: new restaurant. So how do you talk about that without 251 00:13:56,756 --> 00:13:59,836 Speaker 5: it feel like you're rubbing your wealth in someone's face. 252 00:14:00,276 --> 00:14:03,836 Speaker 1: But the biggest problem class is that the rich feel trapped. 253 00:14:04,476 --> 00:14:07,876 Speaker 1: For most problems we encounter in life, they're painful but 254 00:14:07,996 --> 00:14:12,156 Speaker 1: culturally acceptable sos. If you're in a bad relationship, you 255 00:14:12,196 --> 00:14:15,076 Speaker 1: can pack your bags and leave. You hate your job, 256 00:14:15,396 --> 00:14:19,196 Speaker 1: so quit, But if you're loaded and miserable about it, 257 00:14:19,476 --> 00:14:19,956 Speaker 1: you're not going to. 258 00:14:19,956 --> 00:14:23,076 Speaker 5: Give it away. You're too attached to it. It gives 259 00:14:23,076 --> 00:14:25,996 Speaker 5: too much freedom, so you're trapped the golden handcuffs. So 260 00:14:26,076 --> 00:14:28,076 Speaker 5: I have a lot of people who say I can't 261 00:14:28,076 --> 00:14:31,516 Speaker 5: get rid of it because it's amazing, it's great, but God, 262 00:14:31,556 --> 00:14:35,716 Speaker 5: there's so much unhappiness and isolation and guilt that comes 263 00:14:35,756 --> 00:14:36,596 Speaker 5: along with having this. 264 00:14:37,276 --> 00:14:40,476 Speaker 1: Ironically, the rich then fall prey to the same bias 265 00:14:40,516 --> 00:14:44,276 Speaker 1: we do. Maybe the problem isn't the money. Maybe it's 266 00:14:44,596 --> 00:14:46,396 Speaker 1: just that they need a little bit more. 267 00:14:46,956 --> 00:14:49,996 Speaker 5: I've worked with people who've had fifty million dollars and 268 00:14:50,236 --> 00:14:54,956 Speaker 5: they say, yeah, but I really I can't do everything. 269 00:14:54,516 --> 00:14:55,076 Speaker 4: That I want. 270 00:14:55,116 --> 00:14:58,756 Speaker 5: There's this wonderful painting that would really eat into my savings. 271 00:14:59,316 --> 00:15:02,076 Speaker 5: This one guy had five hundred million dollars but had 272 00:15:02,076 --> 00:15:05,636 Speaker 5: a sense that once I hit that billion, that's when 273 00:15:05,676 --> 00:15:12,716 Speaker 5: things really change. And you'd think that's crazy. You have 274 00:15:12,796 --> 00:15:17,676 Speaker 5: more money than you could possibly spend. But they're searching 275 00:15:17,756 --> 00:15:21,276 Speaker 5: for happiness, and people don't believe me in and I 276 00:15:21,356 --> 00:15:24,196 Speaker 5: understand it's hard. It was hard for me to think that, 277 00:15:25,196 --> 00:15:28,116 Speaker 5: But after living in this world, working with these people, 278 00:15:28,236 --> 00:15:31,316 Speaker 5: I understand money is not going to buy you happiness. 279 00:15:31,716 --> 00:15:32,796 Speaker 5: So be careful what. 280 00:15:32,796 --> 00:15:33,276 Speaker 4: You wish for. 281 00:15:35,356 --> 00:15:38,196 Speaker 1: Be careful what you wish for. That's a warning many 282 00:15:38,276 --> 00:15:40,876 Speaker 1: of us have heard before, but it fits with a 283 00:15:40,876 --> 00:15:43,916 Speaker 1: growing body of research showing that nearly every amazing thing 284 00:15:43,956 --> 00:15:47,356 Speaker 1: in life, from tons of money to an amazing house 285 00:15:47,596 --> 00:15:50,916 Speaker 1: to the perfect grades, those things simply won't make us 286 00:15:50,916 --> 00:15:52,836 Speaker 1: as happy as we predict they will. 287 00:15:53,316 --> 00:15:55,516 Speaker 2: Almost all of us believe that we would be happy 288 00:15:55,596 --> 00:15:57,196 Speaker 2: if we could just get what we want, and the 289 00:15:57,236 --> 00:16:00,076 Speaker 2: only impediment to our happiness is that we can't always 290 00:16:00,116 --> 00:16:00,876 Speaker 2: get what we want. 291 00:16:01,396 --> 00:16:04,116 Speaker 1: This is Dan Gilbert. He wrote one of my favorite 292 00:16:04,116 --> 00:16:07,996 Speaker 1: books on human psychology, it's called stumbling on happiness. 293 00:16:08,356 --> 00:16:10,716 Speaker 2: It turns out that when people get exactly what they want, 294 00:16:10,836 --> 00:16:13,236 Speaker 2: they're not always happy. When they get the opposite of 295 00:16:13,556 --> 00:16:16,356 Speaker 2: what they wanted, they often are. That's a little bit 296 00:16:16,396 --> 00:16:19,276 Speaker 2: of a mystery. It's kind of mystery that attracts psychologists. 297 00:16:19,676 --> 00:16:22,756 Speaker 1: This puzzle, as Dan's research over the last two decades 298 00:16:22,796 --> 00:16:27,116 Speaker 1: has shown, stems from one of our most exceptional cognitive faculties, 299 00:16:27,596 --> 00:16:31,116 Speaker 1: our unique ability to run mental simulations of the future. 300 00:16:31,476 --> 00:16:33,716 Speaker 2: This is a brand new faculty that is wired into 301 00:16:33,756 --> 00:16:36,596 Speaker 2: the human brain. No other animal can do anything vaguely 302 00:16:36,796 --> 00:16:39,636 Speaker 2: like it. No chimpanzee has ever thought about whether it's 303 00:16:39,636 --> 00:16:41,836 Speaker 2: going to look good in a bathing suit when it retires. 304 00:16:42,556 --> 00:16:45,916 Speaker 2: But these brand new abilities are still in beta testing. 305 00:16:45,956 --> 00:16:48,596 Speaker 2: In a sense, we have an ability you might call 306 00:16:48,676 --> 00:16:52,476 Speaker 2: prospection one point oh, and it's still being worked on, 307 00:16:52,556 --> 00:16:53,596 Speaker 2: so it's got bugs. 308 00:16:54,236 --> 00:16:57,036 Speaker 1: One of the bugs in prospection one point oh. That 309 00:16:57,156 --> 00:16:59,956 Speaker 1: ability we have to plan for the future is that 310 00:16:59,996 --> 00:17:02,996 Speaker 1: your brain can't simulate all the parts of a given event. 311 00:17:03,556 --> 00:17:06,716 Speaker 2: When you're imagining things unfolding over time, you can't imagine 312 00:17:06,716 --> 00:17:09,716 Speaker 2: them unfolding in real time? Can you? If you could, 313 00:17:09,796 --> 00:17:12,476 Speaker 2: then somebody would say, imagine moving to Chicago, and you'd 314 00:17:12,516 --> 00:17:14,956 Speaker 2: have to spend four months imagining moving to Chicago. That's 315 00:17:14,956 --> 00:17:17,556 Speaker 2: how long it actually takes. So one of the wonderful 316 00:17:17,596 --> 00:17:20,156 Speaker 2: things about simulation is that it gives you a quick 317 00:17:20,196 --> 00:17:22,476 Speaker 2: sketch and then it runs it at hyper speed. But 318 00:17:22,516 --> 00:17:25,276 Speaker 2: that's also one of its flaws, because a quick sketch 319 00:17:25,396 --> 00:17:28,596 Speaker 2: often lacks important details, and when things run at hyper speed, 320 00:17:28,876 --> 00:17:31,276 Speaker 2: they run right over the details that often matter. 321 00:17:31,956 --> 00:17:34,836 Speaker 1: We miss the critical details of almost any good event 322 00:17:34,876 --> 00:17:37,556 Speaker 1: we try to simulate. But let's look in more detail 323 00:17:37,596 --> 00:17:40,796 Speaker 1: at the example we started with earlier, getting rich beyond 324 00:17:40,796 --> 00:17:44,236 Speaker 1: our wildest dreams. What kinds of details do you say 325 00:17:44,596 --> 00:17:48,196 Speaker 1: lottery players miss when they think about winning all that cash. 326 00:17:48,276 --> 00:17:50,316 Speaker 2: If you close your eyes and imagine winning the lottery, 327 00:17:50,396 --> 00:17:53,116 Speaker 2: most of us imagine ourselves in a bathtub full of money, 328 00:17:53,236 --> 00:17:56,156 Speaker 2: or on a yacht, or quitting our job, buying a 329 00:17:56,156 --> 00:17:58,756 Speaker 2: big house, all the things we can get with money. 330 00:17:58,916 --> 00:18:00,916 Speaker 2: You're not thinking about all the things you're going to lose. 331 00:18:01,556 --> 00:18:04,236 Speaker 2: It's very unlikely you're going to continue all the same 332 00:18:04,316 --> 00:18:07,676 Speaker 2: social relationships you have with people who need money but 333 00:18:07,836 --> 00:18:11,276 Speaker 2: don't have any. Underestimating the number of people in relatives 334 00:18:11,316 --> 00:18:13,596 Speaker 2: that will come out of the woodwork begging you to 335 00:18:13,676 --> 00:18:16,436 Speaker 2: help them over and over. You'll fail to realize that 336 00:18:16,476 --> 00:18:18,276 Speaker 2: the social groups to which you would low like to 337 00:18:18,276 --> 00:18:19,956 Speaker 2: belong don't want to have anything to do with you 338 00:18:19,996 --> 00:18:22,756 Speaker 2: because you got your money the wrong way. On and 339 00:18:22,796 --> 00:18:25,756 Speaker 2: on and on. None of that is in our mental 340 00:18:25,756 --> 00:18:27,116 Speaker 2: simulation of the future. 341 00:18:27,676 --> 00:18:30,756 Speaker 1: Dan has shown there's a nasty consequence to missing these 342 00:18:30,796 --> 00:18:34,196 Speaker 1: important details. It means our emotional predictions of how these 343 00:18:34,196 --> 00:18:36,356 Speaker 1: events will feel are way off track. 344 00:18:36,636 --> 00:18:39,276 Speaker 2: Would you rather have a weekend in Paris or gum surgery? 345 00:18:39,276 --> 00:18:41,556 Speaker 2: As kind of a one item IQ test, and almost 346 00:18:41,596 --> 00:18:44,356 Speaker 2: everybody gets that right. What they don't realize is that 347 00:18:44,396 --> 00:18:47,036 Speaker 2: the weekend in Paris won't be as good as they 348 00:18:47,076 --> 00:18:50,116 Speaker 2: think it will be, and the good feelings won't last 349 00:18:50,156 --> 00:18:53,596 Speaker 2: as long as they expect. The same is true, thankfully 350 00:18:53,636 --> 00:18:54,596 Speaker 2: for the gum surgery. 351 00:18:54,956 --> 00:18:58,076 Speaker 1: These tumorous predictions being wrong about how intense an event 352 00:18:58,116 --> 00:19:00,916 Speaker 1: will feel and how long will feel that way is 353 00:19:00,956 --> 00:19:05,236 Speaker 1: what Dan has christened impact by us. In one famous study, 354 00:19:05,516 --> 00:19:08,476 Speaker 1: he asked young professors at the University of Texas to 355 00:19:08,596 --> 00:19:11,516 Speaker 1: forecast how they'd feel when they got tenure, that permanent 356 00:19:11,516 --> 00:19:16,196 Speaker 1: position that all new faculty crave. Dan tested people's predictions 357 00:19:16,356 --> 00:19:19,716 Speaker 1: using a seven point happiness scale. Most professors thought they'd 358 00:19:19,756 --> 00:19:22,196 Speaker 1: be really happy if they got tenure, around a six 359 00:19:22,236 --> 00:19:25,116 Speaker 1: out of seven on that scale, But how did professors 360 00:19:25,236 --> 00:19:28,956 Speaker 1: actually feel when they heard good news. They reported only 361 00:19:28,996 --> 00:19:32,716 Speaker 1: being a five out of seven. Dan also tested what 362 00:19:32,836 --> 00:19:36,236 Speaker 1: happened to professors who got bad news. The ones who 363 00:19:36,316 --> 00:19:39,116 Speaker 1: found out they didn't get tenure. They assumed they'd be 364 00:19:39,156 --> 00:19:41,956 Speaker 1: a three point four out of seven on that happiness scale, 365 00:19:42,156 --> 00:19:45,596 Speaker 1: but in reality, actual professors who got denied tenure were 366 00:19:45,636 --> 00:19:48,516 Speaker 1: only a four point seven on average. They felt a 367 00:19:48,556 --> 00:19:53,116 Speaker 1: whole point better than anyone expected. I see a similar 368 00:19:53,116 --> 00:19:56,436 Speaker 1: misprediction all the time in my college students. At Yale, 369 00:19:56,476 --> 00:19:58,876 Speaker 1: students are convinced they'll be ecstatic if they get a 370 00:19:58,916 --> 00:20:01,756 Speaker 1: good grade, and are sure they'll feel devastated if they 371 00:20:01,756 --> 00:20:05,156 Speaker 1: do badly. Psychologists have now seen the same pattern in 372 00:20:05,236 --> 00:20:08,356 Speaker 1: many walks of life. Lovers predict they'll take a long 373 00:20:08,356 --> 00:20:11,476 Speaker 1: time to recover from a sad breakup, but bounce back 374 00:20:11,516 --> 00:20:15,036 Speaker 1: far quicker. Student drivers believe they'll be devastated if they 375 00:20:15,076 --> 00:20:17,876 Speaker 1: fail to get their license, but aren't as sad walking 376 00:20:17,956 --> 00:20:21,116 Speaker 1: out of the DMV empty handed as they think. The 377 00:20:21,116 --> 00:20:23,356 Speaker 1: same is true for job applicants who are passed over, 378 00:20:23,796 --> 00:20:26,876 Speaker 1: and even patients guessing how they'll feel about a positive 379 00:20:26,956 --> 00:20:30,476 Speaker 1: or negative HIV diagnosis QUT. 380 00:20:30,556 --> 00:20:33,316 Speaker 2: Simply, the good things won't be as good. The bad 381 00:20:33,356 --> 00:20:36,396 Speaker 2: things won't be as bad as your mind leads you 382 00:20:36,476 --> 00:20:37,036 Speaker 2: to believe. 383 00:20:37,716 --> 00:20:40,436 Speaker 1: Dan has shown that this pattern stems from yet another 384 00:20:40,436 --> 00:20:43,276 Speaker 1: way our minds lie to us. We don't notice that 385 00:20:43,316 --> 00:20:46,596 Speaker 1: we have a tendency to get used to stuff. Even 386 00:20:46,636 --> 00:20:50,396 Speaker 1: when something feels amazing at first, we can't enjoy it forever. 387 00:20:51,116 --> 00:20:54,716 Speaker 1: This is a phenomenon the psychologists call hedonic adaptation. 388 00:20:55,396 --> 00:20:58,796 Speaker 2: You can't be really, really happy endlessly all the time, 389 00:20:58,956 --> 00:21:02,356 Speaker 2: or your emotional system isn't doing its job. It has 390 00:21:02,436 --> 00:21:04,596 Speaker 2: to come back to baseline so it can once again 391 00:21:04,636 --> 00:21:07,516 Speaker 2: guide you to the next good thing that you, as 392 00:21:07,556 --> 00:21:09,036 Speaker 2: an organism ought to be doing. 393 00:21:09,476 --> 00:21:12,796 Speaker 1: He Doon'tic adaptation means that after a while, we tend 394 00:21:12,836 --> 00:21:15,516 Speaker 1: to go back to a baseline level of emotional satisfaction. 395 00:21:15,876 --> 00:21:17,956 Speaker 1: My students are happy for a while after getting a 396 00:21:17,956 --> 00:21:20,836 Speaker 1: perfect grid, but after a day or so they just 397 00:21:20,876 --> 00:21:23,316 Speaker 1: go back to their usual set point level of happiness. 398 00:21:24,156 --> 00:21:26,876 Speaker 1: The good and bad events don't move us up or 399 00:21:26,916 --> 00:21:29,156 Speaker 1: down for as long as we think so. 400 00:21:29,196 --> 00:21:32,116 Speaker 2: It's just a hard and fast truth that you can't 401 00:21:32,156 --> 00:21:36,956 Speaker 2: stay at ten forever and ever and ever. People mistakenly 402 00:21:36,996 --> 00:21:38,956 Speaker 2: think they can. They think happiness is a place that 403 00:21:38,996 --> 00:21:40,596 Speaker 2: if they could get to it, they could build a 404 00:21:40,596 --> 00:21:43,516 Speaker 2: house and live there their entire lives. It's only a 405 00:21:43,596 --> 00:21:46,156 Speaker 2: vacation destination. It's a place you can visit more and 406 00:21:46,156 --> 00:21:48,356 Speaker 2: more often if you do the right things, and you 407 00:21:48,356 --> 00:21:51,636 Speaker 2: can stay longer and longer, but you can't stay forever. 408 00:21:52,116 --> 00:21:54,276 Speaker 2: This is an important thing to know because people often 409 00:21:54,316 --> 00:21:56,596 Speaker 2: feel that if their happiness has come back to baseline 410 00:21:56,636 --> 00:22:01,596 Speaker 2: after something wonderful has happened, something's wrong. Why didn't this marriage, 411 00:22:01,636 --> 00:22:04,916 Speaker 2: this child, this promotion give me the eternal happiness I 412 00:22:04,996 --> 00:22:08,356 Speaker 2: was seeking? Because there is no such thing as eternal happiness. 413 00:22:07,956 --> 00:22:11,076 Speaker 1: So happily ever after its just not psychologically realizable. 414 00:22:11,436 --> 00:22:13,756 Speaker 2: Happily ever after is only true if you have three 415 00:22:13,796 --> 00:22:14,436 Speaker 2: minutes to live. 416 00:22:17,476 --> 00:22:21,116 Speaker 1: But this process also has an important upside. We get 417 00:22:21,196 --> 00:22:24,556 Speaker 1: used to all the bad stuff too, that horrible breakup, 418 00:22:24,836 --> 00:22:28,076 Speaker 1: the chronic illness, that worst job with the lower salary. 419 00:22:28,756 --> 00:22:32,316 Speaker 1: As we hedonically adapt to these things, they gradually start 420 00:22:32,356 --> 00:22:35,876 Speaker 1: to distress us less and less. The problem is we 421 00:22:35,956 --> 00:22:37,236 Speaker 1: don't realize. 422 00:22:36,756 --> 00:22:41,716 Speaker 6: It, despite the fact that two months prior I was 423 00:22:41,716 --> 00:22:44,436 Speaker 6: sitting in my bed crying my eyes out, like wishing 424 00:22:44,476 --> 00:22:48,876 Speaker 6: I would die. It just shows that like life goes on, 425 00:22:49,796 --> 00:22:51,396 Speaker 6: it's not the end of the world. 426 00:22:51,676 --> 00:22:53,796 Speaker 1: The Happiness Lab will be back in a moment. 427 00:22:59,276 --> 00:23:02,596 Speaker 6: Basically, I remember I was on Tender because all these 428 00:23:02,676 --> 00:23:03,956 Speaker 6: great stories are on Tender. 429 00:23:04,516 --> 00:23:07,356 Speaker 1: Raphaela Guns is telling me how she met the man 430 00:23:07,396 --> 00:23:08,556 Speaker 1: of her dreams. 431 00:23:09,236 --> 00:23:15,156 Speaker 6: Super beautiful, beautiful guy, blue eyes, full lips. 432 00:23:14,556 --> 00:23:16,836 Speaker 1: And how he changed her life forever. 433 00:23:17,276 --> 00:23:20,276 Speaker 6: I really liked him, I was so in him. 434 00:23:20,356 --> 00:23:23,196 Speaker 1: After chatting with him for a while on Tinder, Rafaela 435 00:23:23,196 --> 00:23:26,236 Speaker 1: agreed to a first date, something really low key. The 436 00:23:26,276 --> 00:23:29,236 Speaker 1: couple just walked around getting to know each other. They 437 00:23:29,276 --> 00:23:32,636 Speaker 1: didn't even kiss, But things picked up after that. 438 00:23:33,516 --> 00:23:35,156 Speaker 6: We were hanging out for hours and hours, and we 439 00:23:35,196 --> 00:23:38,356 Speaker 6: decided to go back up to my neighborhood so we 440 00:23:38,396 --> 00:23:41,276 Speaker 6: could sit by the river, by the Hudson River because 441 00:23:41,316 --> 00:23:43,556 Speaker 6: it's like super pretty to justa wash. The sunset over there, 442 00:23:44,116 --> 00:23:47,716 Speaker 6: and we ended up having sex and I thought I 443 00:23:47,756 --> 00:23:51,556 Speaker 6: did everything right, Like I carried condoms around in my 444 00:23:51,716 --> 00:23:53,476 Speaker 6: mind I was doing everything right. 445 00:23:53,676 --> 00:23:56,036 Speaker 1: But Rafaela was about to hear the sort of news 446 00:23:56,196 --> 00:23:57,476 Speaker 1: that nobody wants to hear. 447 00:23:58,076 --> 00:24:01,956 Speaker 6: The next day, he sort of came down with what 448 00:24:02,036 --> 00:24:04,476 Speaker 6: he thought was like a cold or something. He had 449 00:24:04,476 --> 00:24:06,676 Speaker 6: like a sore throat, and he was feeling very fatigued. 450 00:24:07,516 --> 00:24:11,156 Speaker 6: And then a couple days later I started coming down 451 00:24:11,196 --> 00:24:11,716 Speaker 6: the same thing. 452 00:24:12,396 --> 00:24:14,436 Speaker 1: Her beautiful boy with the blue eyes was the first 453 00:24:14,516 --> 00:24:16,996 Speaker 1: to seek medical advice. He sent a text. 454 00:24:17,476 --> 00:24:20,036 Speaker 6: I went to the doctor and they think, all this 455 00:24:20,116 --> 00:24:22,756 Speaker 6: might be a sign of herpees and so like that 456 00:24:22,796 --> 00:24:25,116 Speaker 6: was a weird text message. So I go into urgent 457 00:24:25,156 --> 00:24:26,956 Speaker 6: care crying and I'm like, I need a herpees death. 458 00:24:27,556 --> 00:24:30,756 Speaker 1: Rafaella got her official diagnosis soon after. 459 00:24:31,116 --> 00:24:32,796 Speaker 6: Those first few days. I remember I was just sitting 460 00:24:32,796 --> 00:24:36,116 Speaker 6: in bed crying. You know, I like thought my life 461 00:24:36,156 --> 00:24:38,036 Speaker 6: was Oh I wanted to die. It was the worst 462 00:24:38,036 --> 00:24:39,636 Speaker 6: thing in the world. Like, not only was I like 463 00:24:39,676 --> 00:24:43,076 Speaker 6: physically uncomfortable, but how am I going to date someone? 464 00:24:43,116 --> 00:24:44,316 Speaker 6: How's anyone going to love me? 465 00:24:44,876 --> 00:24:47,476 Speaker 1: In addition to being in physical pain with red bumps 466 00:24:47,516 --> 00:24:50,836 Speaker 1: on her genitals, she was also in emotional pain. Her 467 00:24:50,916 --> 00:24:53,036 Speaker 1: dream guy dropped her in a flash. 468 00:24:53,196 --> 00:24:55,796 Speaker 6: Yeah, he was like, oh this changed my vibe on you. 469 00:24:56,076 --> 00:24:58,996 Speaker 6: He was like very very distant. I thought, like, okay, 470 00:24:59,036 --> 00:25:01,036 Speaker 6: we both have this thing, like we can go through 471 00:25:01,036 --> 00:25:04,356 Speaker 6: it together and sort of like learn about it together 472 00:25:04,396 --> 00:25:06,396 Speaker 6: and figure us out together. But he was very much 473 00:25:06,396 --> 00:25:09,036 Speaker 6: short of like in it for himself. I felt so 474 00:25:09,156 --> 00:25:12,876 Speaker 6: sort of I don't know if betrayed is the white word, 475 00:25:12,916 --> 00:25:14,436 Speaker 6: but that's the word that was coming to my mind. 476 00:25:14,956 --> 00:25:17,556 Speaker 1: Raphaela didn't only feel betrayed by the man who gave 477 00:25:17,596 --> 00:25:21,556 Speaker 1: her herpes and disappeared. Her diagnosis also freaked out the 478 00:25:21,596 --> 00:25:22,716 Speaker 1: people closest to her. 479 00:25:22,876 --> 00:25:25,676 Speaker 6: She was like one of my oldest friends. But then 480 00:25:25,796 --> 00:25:27,676 Speaker 6: when I confided in her, when I'm like sitting on 481 00:25:27,716 --> 00:25:29,476 Speaker 6: my diak crying because I have all these itchy red 482 00:25:29,516 --> 00:25:32,396 Speaker 6: bumps and you know the guy is ignoring me, now 483 00:25:33,676 --> 00:25:36,396 Speaker 6: things changed. She's like, I just think, you know, it 484 00:25:36,396 --> 00:25:38,796 Speaker 6: would be better for my own sanity if you use 485 00:25:38,876 --> 00:25:41,836 Speaker 6: toilet seat covers when you were here, and you know, 486 00:25:41,956 --> 00:25:45,116 Speaker 6: if you use hand sanitizer a lot, and this and that. 487 00:25:45,436 --> 00:25:47,236 Speaker 6: So that was really hurtful. 488 00:25:47,516 --> 00:25:49,556 Speaker 1: I mean, this was one of your oldest friends. 489 00:25:49,676 --> 00:25:53,036 Speaker 6: Yeah, this was someone I've known since we were in Diverse. 490 00:25:53,516 --> 00:25:55,156 Speaker 1: And she's not supporting you. For one of them, it 491 00:25:55,196 --> 00:25:55,796 Speaker 1: sounds like one of. 492 00:25:55,796 --> 00:25:58,476 Speaker 6: The most scary times in my life. Yeah, that just 493 00:25:58,516 --> 00:26:00,316 Speaker 6: sounds awful, and so that was horrible. 494 00:26:01,076 --> 00:26:03,716 Speaker 1: Let's take a second to predict how you would feel 495 00:26:03,716 --> 00:26:08,876 Speaker 1: in Rafaela's situation. You contracted in incurable and highly stigmatized disease, 496 00:26:09,396 --> 00:26:12,116 Speaker 1: your romantic partner has ditched you, and some of your 497 00:26:12,156 --> 00:26:15,996 Speaker 1: oldest friends are shunning you because of what happened. Would 498 00:26:15,996 --> 00:26:18,636 Speaker 1: you describe all of this overall as a good thing, 499 00:26:19,276 --> 00:26:22,476 Speaker 1: as a positive change in your life, as a present 500 00:26:22,636 --> 00:26:26,236 Speaker 1: from the universe, Because that's how Raphaella sees it. She 501 00:26:26,276 --> 00:26:28,876 Speaker 1: even wrote an article for ravishly dot com which she 502 00:26:28,956 --> 00:26:31,236 Speaker 1: titled getting herpes was a gift. 503 00:26:31,796 --> 00:26:33,916 Speaker 6: Some people were like what the Like how is this 504 00:26:33,956 --> 00:26:38,996 Speaker 6: a gift? Like almost angry and like calling me like delusion, 505 00:26:39,036 --> 00:26:41,356 Speaker 6: all these sorts of things like how would you possibly 506 00:26:41,356 --> 00:26:42,076 Speaker 6: think that's a gift? 507 00:26:42,156 --> 00:26:43,036 Speaker 1: So why is it a gift? 508 00:26:43,636 --> 00:26:48,116 Speaker 6: It's a gift because I'm more knowledgeable. It's a gift 509 00:26:48,236 --> 00:26:51,076 Speaker 6: because I've been able to write things like that article 510 00:26:51,196 --> 00:26:52,076 Speaker 6: that helps people. 511 00:26:52,916 --> 00:26:56,236 Speaker 1: Raphaella says, all the fallout from her diagnosis has given 512 00:26:56,276 --> 00:26:59,276 Speaker 1: her insight into the people who really matter. It's a 513 00:26:59,316 --> 00:27:02,076 Speaker 1: strong litmus test for those who are actually going to 514 00:27:02,116 --> 00:27:02,756 Speaker 1: be there for her. 515 00:27:03,276 --> 00:27:07,396 Speaker 6: If a friend can't accept all of you worts and 516 00:27:07,516 --> 00:27:11,676 Speaker 6: all U pun intended, they're not really your friend. They're 517 00:27:11,716 --> 00:27:13,116 Speaker 6: fair weather friends, you know. 518 00:27:13,676 --> 00:27:16,116 Speaker 1: But it also gave Rafaela a new filter for her 519 00:27:16,236 --> 00:27:19,236 Speaker 1: dating life. It saved her time figuring out which guys 520 00:27:19,236 --> 00:27:22,036 Speaker 1: were worth her time and which guys just didn't get it. 521 00:27:22,276 --> 00:27:24,436 Speaker 6: He said some dumb shit about, oh am, I gonna 522 00:27:24,436 --> 00:27:25,876 Speaker 6: get it if I kiss you, and I'm like, no, 523 00:27:25,956 --> 00:27:26,836 Speaker 6: it's on my vagina. 524 00:27:27,036 --> 00:27:27,916 Speaker 3: Do you think you know? 525 00:27:27,996 --> 00:27:29,436 Speaker 1: Would you change anything? Would you do it? 526 00:27:29,436 --> 00:27:31,116 Speaker 3: I mean, it sounds like you learned so much from this. 527 00:27:31,196 --> 00:27:32,876 Speaker 1: Like would you keep it? Would would you do it 528 00:27:32,876 --> 00:27:33,276 Speaker 1: over again? 529 00:27:33,356 --> 00:27:36,676 Speaker 6: I'd keep it. First of all, as much of a 530 00:27:36,716 --> 00:27:39,796 Speaker 6: dick as he was, he was really hot, really hot, 531 00:27:39,836 --> 00:27:43,556 Speaker 6: and the sex was really good, so I don't regret that. Secondly, 532 00:27:44,756 --> 00:27:48,596 Speaker 6: it helped me in my dating life, I feel a 533 00:27:48,636 --> 00:27:52,116 Speaker 6: few months after I was diagnosed, I met my current 534 00:27:52,316 --> 00:27:54,996 Speaker 6: boyfriend who we've been together for like three years, and 535 00:27:55,076 --> 00:27:57,916 Speaker 6: I told him right away and he was fine with it. 536 00:27:58,636 --> 00:28:01,116 Speaker 6: So that was nice to know. That's like, especially when 537 00:28:01,116 --> 00:28:03,436 Speaker 6: you're when you contract something like herpes, you tend to 538 00:28:03,436 --> 00:28:04,876 Speaker 6: think like all my life's over and no one's ever 539 00:28:04,876 --> 00:28:06,236 Speaker 6: gonna want to sleep with me again, no one's ever 540 00:28:06,276 --> 00:28:08,276 Speaker 6: gonna want to date me again, I'm never gonna get married, 541 00:28:08,276 --> 00:28:10,996 Speaker 6: this and that, But it was fine, Like there are 542 00:28:10,996 --> 00:28:16,196 Speaker 6: people that have much much worse problems than little red bumps. 543 00:28:17,356 --> 00:28:21,236 Speaker 1: Getting herpes was much much better than Raphaela might have predicted. 544 00:28:22,116 --> 00:28:25,116 Speaker 1: And that kind of adaptation to adversity is something Dan 545 00:28:25,156 --> 00:28:27,556 Speaker 1: Gilbert has found over and over again. 546 00:28:27,876 --> 00:28:30,116 Speaker 2: What we find consistently is that in the face of 547 00:28:30,156 --> 00:28:33,196 Speaker 2: negative events, people don't feel as bad as they themselves 548 00:28:33,196 --> 00:28:33,836 Speaker 2: expected to. 549 00:28:34,836 --> 00:28:37,436 Speaker 1: Although we're pretty bad at predicting how we'll feel after 550 00:28:37,476 --> 00:28:40,956 Speaker 1: a good event like winning the lottery, Dan has observed 551 00:28:40,996 --> 00:28:43,876 Speaker 1: we're worse at predicting how we'll feel after a bad 552 00:28:43,916 --> 00:28:47,116 Speaker 1: event losing a friend, failing to get a job, or 553 00:28:47,116 --> 00:28:50,956 Speaker 1: even getting herpies. Our impact bias is even bigger when 554 00:28:50,996 --> 00:28:54,836 Speaker 1: we make predictions about negative life circumstances, because we're prone 555 00:28:54,876 --> 00:28:57,276 Speaker 1: to overcome bad events more quickly than we think. 556 00:28:57,716 --> 00:28:59,236 Speaker 2: One of the things we fail to do when we 557 00:28:59,276 --> 00:29:03,476 Speaker 2: mentally simulate is we fail to consider adaptation. We are 558 00:29:03,596 --> 00:29:07,076 Speaker 2: remarkably adaptive animal. We have been born and bred to 559 00:29:07,116 --> 00:29:10,236 Speaker 2: pick ourselves up by the bootstraps and soldier on. When 560 00:29:10,356 --> 00:29:12,676 Speaker 2: the going gets tough, we get going. 561 00:29:13,076 --> 00:29:17,796 Speaker 1: Dan calls this capacity to overcome adversity our psychological immune system. 562 00:29:18,716 --> 00:29:21,036 Speaker 1: Just as our physical immune system kicks in when we 563 00:29:21,116 --> 00:29:24,556 Speaker 1: get sick, our psychological immune system turns on when we're 564 00:29:24,556 --> 00:29:29,036 Speaker 1: in mental distress. And our psychological immune system works really, 565 00:29:29,076 --> 00:29:31,756 Speaker 1: really well. As soon as we start to feel bad, 566 00:29:31,956 --> 00:29:35,156 Speaker 1: our mind deploys a whole host of mental defenses. 567 00:29:35,276 --> 00:29:37,516 Speaker 2: If you've ever had a friend experience a breakup, you know, 568 00:29:37,596 --> 00:29:39,956 Speaker 2: at first they're really unhappy, and then pretty quickly they 569 00:29:39,996 --> 00:29:42,956 Speaker 2: get around to rationalizing, Ah, she was never really right 570 00:29:42,996 --> 00:29:44,996 Speaker 2: for me. This is really a chance for me to 571 00:29:45,036 --> 00:29:47,116 Speaker 2: start my life over. I don't think we had that 572 00:29:47,196 --> 00:29:49,156 Speaker 2: much in common in the first place. She didn't like 573 00:29:49,236 --> 00:29:52,996 Speaker 2: my mother. When you mentally simulate a breakup, you mentally 574 00:29:53,036 --> 00:29:57,396 Speaker 2: simulate the anguish, but you never mentally simulate the rationalizations. 575 00:29:57,756 --> 00:30:01,116 Speaker 1: What's amazing about all those rationalizations, though, is that the 576 00:30:01,116 --> 00:30:04,436 Speaker 1: happiness we get from rationalizing a bad event is just 577 00:30:04,516 --> 00:30:07,676 Speaker 1: as real as the happiness we get from something objectively good. 578 00:30:08,036 --> 00:30:11,036 Speaker 2: Well, there's no doubt that when people rationalize, everybody around 579 00:30:11,076 --> 00:30:14,236 Speaker 2: them feels that they found some sort of phony and 580 00:30:14,516 --> 00:30:17,876 Speaker 2: substandard form of happiness. I don't believe that for a minute. 581 00:30:18,036 --> 00:30:20,436 Speaker 2: You know, the happiness you get when the person you 582 00:30:21,596 --> 00:30:25,756 Speaker 2: love says yes to the marriage proposal isn't qualitatively different 583 00:30:25,756 --> 00:30:28,596 Speaker 2: than the kind you produce for yourself when she says no. 584 00:30:29,156 --> 00:30:31,396 Speaker 2: There's absolutely no data that I know of to suggest 585 00:30:31,436 --> 00:30:33,956 Speaker 2: that it's an inferior form of happiness, and indeed, in 586 00:30:33,996 --> 00:30:36,756 Speaker 2: some cases, it can be more long lasting. 587 00:30:37,756 --> 00:30:41,876 Speaker 1: Rafael's misery about contracting herpes was very deep and very real, 588 00:30:42,676 --> 00:30:44,436 Speaker 1: but her misery was also short lived. 589 00:30:45,196 --> 00:30:46,116 Speaker 2: But what about. 590 00:30:45,876 --> 00:30:49,196 Speaker 1: Situations that are so horrible there's no way a person 591 00:30:49,236 --> 00:30:52,996 Speaker 1: can carry on normally. What about events so profound and 592 00:30:53,036 --> 00:30:57,196 Speaker 1: so awful that they change our lives forever. After the break, 593 00:30:57,396 --> 00:31:01,036 Speaker 1: we'll hear about the true power of our psychological immune system, 594 00:31:01,276 --> 00:31:04,076 Speaker 1: how it can transform the most terrible incidents a human 595 00:31:04,116 --> 00:31:07,796 Speaker 1: can endure into a form of joy we'd never expect. 596 00:31:08,316 --> 00:31:11,956 Speaker 4: Nineteen years old, I'm in this humvey, I'm thinking I'm 597 00:31:11,996 --> 00:31:14,276 Speaker 4: going to die. It felt good to just kind of 598 00:31:14,316 --> 00:31:17,236 Speaker 4: just close my eyes and just kind of let it happen. 599 00:31:17,956 --> 00:31:20,196 Speaker 1: The Happiness lab will return in a moment. 600 00:31:22,916 --> 00:31:25,996 Speaker 4: I joined as an infratrurement because I wanted to. I 601 00:31:26,036 --> 00:31:27,036 Speaker 4: wanted to be in the action. 602 00:31:27,596 --> 00:31:29,956 Speaker 1: Jay Or Martinez had just finished high school in a 603 00:31:29,996 --> 00:31:32,316 Speaker 1: small town in the south, the only son of a 604 00:31:32,356 --> 00:31:36,556 Speaker 1: single mother from El Salvador. After graduation, he decided to 605 00:31:36,636 --> 00:31:39,396 Speaker 1: enlist in the army. It was just after nine to eleven, 606 00:31:39,756 --> 00:31:41,996 Speaker 1: and he had a few predictions about how things would go. 607 00:31:42,796 --> 00:31:42,996 Speaker 5: You know. 608 00:31:43,036 --> 00:31:46,116 Speaker 4: My thought process was three years I would be in it. 609 00:31:46,316 --> 00:31:48,756 Speaker 4: I would give back to this country. It would give 610 00:31:48,796 --> 00:31:50,876 Speaker 4: me an opportunity to travel to get more disciplined, it 611 00:31:50,916 --> 00:31:52,796 Speaker 4: would give me an opportunity to give money for college. 612 00:31:53,076 --> 00:31:56,236 Speaker 4: And I remember one of my sergeants, you know, one day, 613 00:31:56,236 --> 00:31:57,916 Speaker 4: sitting down and talking to me and telling me that 614 00:31:57,996 --> 00:31:59,916 Speaker 4: I needed to be prepared because we were going to 615 00:31:59,916 --> 00:32:03,236 Speaker 4: be deployed sometime soon. And my response to him was, 616 00:32:03,716 --> 00:32:05,636 Speaker 4: I'm not going anywhere yet. I just got out of 617 00:32:05,636 --> 00:32:10,196 Speaker 4: basic training. Very naive of me, and he was absolutely 618 00:32:10,236 --> 00:32:12,596 Speaker 4: correct and right in the sense of where two months later, 619 00:32:13,076 --> 00:32:14,356 Speaker 4: I was on a plane with the rest of the 620 00:32:14,436 --> 00:32:16,276 Speaker 4: unit head over to the Bedalies go into war. 621 00:32:17,276 --> 00:32:19,676 Speaker 1: Jr. Was part of the initial invasion of Iraq in 622 00:32:19,676 --> 00:32:22,556 Speaker 1: two thousand and three. It was already a tough transition 623 00:32:22,636 --> 00:32:26,396 Speaker 1: for a nineteen year old, and within weeks tragedy struck. 624 00:32:26,956 --> 00:32:30,036 Speaker 4: Here we were, you know, a few days shy of 625 00:32:30,076 --> 00:32:31,876 Speaker 4: a month of being in Iraq and escort in the 626 00:32:31,876 --> 00:32:34,636 Speaker 4: convoy through a city car Carbala, when the front left 627 00:32:34,636 --> 00:32:36,116 Speaker 4: tire of the humvey that I was driving ran over 628 00:32:36,156 --> 00:32:36,876 Speaker 4: a roadside bomb. 629 00:32:37,156 --> 00:32:39,996 Speaker 1: The blast ripped through the entire truck and everything it 630 00:32:40,076 --> 00:32:43,636 Speaker 1: was carrying, the AMMO, spear of fuel and other explosives. 631 00:32:44,116 --> 00:32:45,076 Speaker 1: It was a fireball. 632 00:32:45,516 --> 00:32:47,316 Speaker 4: There was three other soldiers in the vehicle with me. 633 00:32:47,436 --> 00:32:49,356 Speaker 4: They all got thrown out of the vehicle, but I 634 00:32:49,476 --> 00:32:52,636 Speaker 4: was trapped inside and within a matter of seconds this 635 00:32:52,756 --> 00:32:55,236 Speaker 4: humvee was engulfed in flames and I was completely conscious. 636 00:32:55,916 --> 00:32:56,356 Speaker 2: Jr. 637 00:32:56,436 --> 00:32:59,756 Speaker 1: Was pinned inside the burning truck for several minutes. He 638 00:32:59,836 --> 00:33:03,356 Speaker 1: described screaming as he watched the skin on his hands melting. 639 00:33:04,276 --> 00:33:07,396 Speaker 1: Eventually he was pulled from the vehicle, but the damage 640 00:33:07,436 --> 00:33:10,796 Speaker 1: was done. In addition to oaken ribs and lacerated liver, 641 00:33:11,196 --> 00:33:14,476 Speaker 1: he had third degree burns over his entire body, and 642 00:33:14,676 --> 00:33:17,556 Speaker 1: he'd been gulping flames into his lungs through the whole ordeal. 643 00:33:18,516 --> 00:33:21,636 Speaker 1: He was immediately medevaced first to Europe and then to 644 00:33:21,676 --> 00:33:24,556 Speaker 1: the US Army Burn Center in San Antonio, Texas. 645 00:33:24,716 --> 00:33:27,956 Speaker 4: I remember coming out of my medical induced coma three 646 00:33:27,956 --> 00:33:33,676 Speaker 4: weeks later and my doctor essentially just kind of laying out, 647 00:33:33,916 --> 00:33:36,396 Speaker 4: you know, all the cards and saying, this is the circumstance. 648 00:33:36,956 --> 00:33:39,836 Speaker 4: You can't feed yourself, you can't walk, you can't sit up, 649 00:33:39,916 --> 00:33:42,516 Speaker 4: you can't go to the bathroom by yourself. They also 650 00:33:42,636 --> 00:33:44,396 Speaker 4: told me that I would no longer be able to 651 00:33:45,036 --> 00:33:47,556 Speaker 4: remain in the United States Army, which was incredibly difficult 652 00:33:47,596 --> 00:33:48,156 Speaker 4: and challenging. 653 00:33:48,236 --> 00:33:50,956 Speaker 3: When this happened, you were nineteen and you spent like 654 00:33:51,316 --> 00:33:52,236 Speaker 3: the next three years. 655 00:33:52,356 --> 00:33:55,636 Speaker 4: I turned twenty, twenty one, twenty two in the hospital. 656 00:33:55,676 --> 00:33:58,316 Speaker 3: It's amazing just to be clear how much just to get. 657 00:33:58,236 --> 00:34:00,836 Speaker 4: Thirty four percent of my body was burned, and majority 658 00:34:00,876 --> 00:34:03,956 Speaker 4: of that was third degree, so it consisted of for 659 00:34:03,996 --> 00:34:06,436 Speaker 4: the listeners that can't see me, it consisted of my head, 660 00:34:06,556 --> 00:34:09,636 Speaker 4: my face, my arms, my hands, portion of my portion 661 00:34:09,716 --> 00:34:12,276 Speaker 4: on my legs. There's no way to really fully describe 662 00:34:12,276 --> 00:34:15,636 Speaker 4: the pain unless you've been through it. But what's incredible 663 00:34:15,676 --> 00:34:17,676 Speaker 4: about being a burn survivor a burn patient at the 664 00:34:17,716 --> 00:34:20,356 Speaker 4: time is that the part of your body that isn't burned, 665 00:34:20,836 --> 00:34:23,836 Speaker 4: still hurts because they usually use the areas of your 666 00:34:23,876 --> 00:34:27,236 Speaker 4: body that are not scarred as skin to do skin grafts, 667 00:34:27,556 --> 00:34:30,156 Speaker 4: and usually the a donor site is more painful than 668 00:34:30,196 --> 00:34:31,316 Speaker 4: the actual injury itself. 669 00:34:31,636 --> 00:34:35,676 Speaker 1: But Jr's physical pain was nothing compared to his emotional anguish. 670 00:34:36,156 --> 00:34:39,116 Speaker 1: When he enlisted, he'd been something of a local heart throb. 671 00:34:39,476 --> 00:34:41,556 Speaker 4: You know. It's funny because growing up I always heard, 672 00:34:42,196 --> 00:34:44,996 Speaker 4: you know, from like my mom's friends, you know, all 673 00:34:45,036 --> 00:34:46,636 Speaker 4: these women, you know, would say, oh my god, he's 674 00:34:46,676 --> 00:34:49,116 Speaker 4: so cute, he's so this, he's so that, And so 675 00:34:49,156 --> 00:34:51,276 Speaker 4: I grew up just thinking like, that's what I am. 676 00:34:51,356 --> 00:34:54,236 Speaker 4: You know, no one ever said he has an amazing personality, 677 00:34:54,436 --> 00:34:58,516 Speaker 4: he's funny, he's whatever, articulate and nothing. It was cute. 678 00:34:59,236 --> 00:35:02,476 Speaker 4: And so suddenly I look at myself and I'm like, 679 00:35:02,556 --> 00:35:05,396 Speaker 4: that's not cute. What I see in the mirror, that's 680 00:35:05,396 --> 00:35:08,116 Speaker 4: not And that person that I see, I do not 681 00:35:08,236 --> 00:35:12,476 Speaker 4: recognize relationship with that individual. The old JR. 682 00:35:12,596 --> 00:35:13,556 Speaker 5: Had died, and. 683 00:35:13,476 --> 00:35:16,076 Speaker 4: As you can imagine, I fell into a deep dark 684 00:35:16,116 --> 00:35:20,596 Speaker 4: place of I was depressed. I was angry, I was resentful. 685 00:35:21,196 --> 00:35:25,156 Speaker 4: I was a victim in every sense of the word. 686 00:35:25,516 --> 00:35:29,636 Speaker 1: Deep burns and thick scars over his entire body, dozens 687 00:35:29,636 --> 00:35:32,356 Speaker 1: of surgeries, and years of his young life wasted in 688 00:35:32,396 --> 00:35:36,276 Speaker 1: the hospital, plus the permanent loss of his good looks 689 00:35:36,316 --> 00:35:39,476 Speaker 1: and his military career. Those are some of the most 690 00:35:39,516 --> 00:35:43,196 Speaker 1: profound and tragic events a person can endure. But how 691 00:35:43,236 --> 00:35:45,596 Speaker 1: does JR. Think about all these awful events today? 692 00:35:46,156 --> 00:35:48,356 Speaker 4: I can tell you right now that what happened to 693 00:35:48,396 --> 00:35:49,116 Speaker 4: me is a blessing. 694 00:35:49,916 --> 00:35:52,156 Speaker 1: That's right as a blessing. 695 00:35:52,196 --> 00:35:53,916 Speaker 4: Considering the fact that I was trapped inside of a 696 00:35:53,916 --> 00:35:56,716 Speaker 4: burning truck for five minutes. I'm fortunate to only have 697 00:35:56,796 --> 00:35:58,996 Speaker 4: what I have. I have a lot of friends, and 698 00:35:59,036 --> 00:36:02,116 Speaker 4: I know a lot of people that unfortunately have missing 699 00:36:02,156 --> 00:36:06,876 Speaker 4: limbs are you know, have are more scarred or disfigured. 700 00:36:06,956 --> 00:36:09,916 Speaker 4: You know, so in that sense, credibly fortunate. 701 00:36:10,836 --> 00:36:13,076 Speaker 3: It's so cool to hear you say that you're incredibly fortunate, 702 00:36:13,116 --> 00:36:15,276 Speaker 3: because again, I think people who just heard the story, 703 00:36:15,476 --> 00:36:18,796 Speaker 3: you know, guys on v explodes, he spends you know, 704 00:36:18,996 --> 00:36:21,756 Speaker 3: a decent chunk of his twenties in the hospital, having major, 705 00:36:21,796 --> 00:36:24,636 Speaker 3: major surgeries, lives with scars for the rest of his life, 706 00:36:24,796 --> 00:36:27,316 Speaker 3: and then you're saying I'm fortunate, like I'm the last. 707 00:36:27,276 --> 00:36:30,356 Speaker 4: Line, Yeah, well I am, because you know, I think 708 00:36:30,356 --> 00:36:33,076 Speaker 4: about how I'm blessed to have a second chance at life. 709 00:36:33,636 --> 00:36:35,636 Speaker 4: I don't want to take this second chance for granted. 710 00:36:36,116 --> 00:36:36,636 Speaker 4: And JR. 711 00:36:36,716 --> 00:36:40,356 Speaker 1: Did take every opportunity that came his way. Being a 712 00:36:40,396 --> 00:36:43,516 Speaker 1: badly injured vet open doors that JR. Never dreamed of. 713 00:36:44,196 --> 00:36:47,236 Speaker 1: He became a mentor for other burn victims, which led 714 00:36:47,236 --> 00:36:50,236 Speaker 1: to a few lucrative speaking gigs. Telling his story so 715 00:36:50,356 --> 00:36:54,276 Speaker 1: openly built up Jr's confidence, so much so that when 716 00:36:54,276 --> 00:36:56,716 Speaker 1: a friend casually mentioned that Jr. Should try out for 717 00:36:56,756 --> 00:36:59,156 Speaker 1: an acting job, he decided to go for it. 718 00:37:00,196 --> 00:37:04,116 Speaker 4: I became an actor on a soap opera All my Children, 719 00:37:04,196 --> 00:37:06,956 Speaker 4: and that led Dancing with the Stars to ask me 720 00:37:06,996 --> 00:37:09,196 Speaker 4: to be on the show, and then I Active and 721 00:37:09,236 --> 00:37:11,716 Speaker 4: some other shows. After that, I wrote a book about 722 00:37:11,716 --> 00:37:14,156 Speaker 4: my life and my mother's life and my family's life, 723 00:37:14,156 --> 00:37:16,196 Speaker 4: and it became a New York Times bestseller. I mean, 724 00:37:16,236 --> 00:37:19,716 Speaker 4: People magazine put me on a cover because of these cars. 725 00:37:20,196 --> 00:37:25,276 Speaker 4: I have this incredible ability to get people's attention, the 726 00:37:25,356 --> 00:37:28,596 Speaker 4: fifteen seconds of curiosity right like, who is that? What 727 00:37:28,756 --> 00:37:32,716 Speaker 4: happened to him? Those fifteen seconds of curiosity that people have. 728 00:37:33,396 --> 00:37:37,716 Speaker 4: It's my job mine to take that fifteen seconds and 729 00:37:37,716 --> 00:37:41,036 Speaker 4: turn it into thirty seconds, into forty five, into sixty seconds, 730 00:37:41,036 --> 00:37:46,116 Speaker 4: into five minutes, ten minutes, a lifetime of actual, educated dialogue. 731 00:37:46,236 --> 00:37:48,796 Speaker 4: This is who I am. Everything I thought I wanted 732 00:37:48,876 --> 00:37:51,036 Speaker 4: in life. You know, I wanted to be a professional 733 00:37:51,036 --> 00:37:53,396 Speaker 4: professional football player and have fame and have all this 734 00:37:53,596 --> 00:37:55,996 Speaker 4: money and be able to do all these things. Like 735 00:37:56,196 --> 00:37:59,956 Speaker 4: if I would have accomplished those things, would I be 736 00:38:00,076 --> 00:38:01,596 Speaker 4: as happy as I am? Now? 737 00:38:02,236 --> 00:38:04,396 Speaker 3: Would you change anything? Would you do it over differently? 738 00:38:05,876 --> 00:38:05,956 Speaker 6: Now? 739 00:38:05,956 --> 00:38:09,676 Speaker 4: I wouldn't change anything one hundred send me that. 740 00:38:09,916 --> 00:38:12,436 Speaker 3: But you wouldn't change like the explosion in the scars, 741 00:38:12,476 --> 00:38:13,916 Speaker 3: the surgery. You'd keep all of that. 742 00:38:14,436 --> 00:38:21,556 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, because the life I have, I mean, the 743 00:38:21,556 --> 00:38:24,956 Speaker 4: beautiful wife and the beautiful daughter, and the beautiful life 744 00:38:24,996 --> 00:38:27,556 Speaker 4: that I've created for myself. I mean, gosh, I mean, 745 00:38:28,996 --> 00:38:30,196 Speaker 4: I'm blessed. 746 00:38:33,916 --> 00:38:36,916 Speaker 2: With bad events. We often don't realize that some good 747 00:38:36,956 --> 00:38:37,996 Speaker 2: can come out of them. 748 00:38:38,116 --> 00:38:41,356 Speaker 1: Dan Gilbert is unsurprised that people like JR. Seem more 749 00:38:41,396 --> 00:38:45,796 Speaker 1: positive than negatives, even in the worst of circumstances. He's 750 00:38:45,796 --> 00:38:48,956 Speaker 1: seen it time and again in his work on hedonic adaptation. 751 00:38:49,716 --> 00:38:52,396 Speaker 2: Startlingly, if you ask people who've lost a child, which 752 00:38:52,436 --> 00:38:55,676 Speaker 2: is the single worst event that people can imagine experiencing, 753 00:38:56,036 --> 00:38:58,396 Speaker 2: and indeed it is one of the worst events people 754 00:38:58,436 --> 00:39:01,836 Speaker 2: can actually experience. If you ask people have lost a child, 755 00:39:02,236 --> 00:39:04,796 Speaker 2: they never say, gee, I'm glad that happened. But if 756 00:39:04,796 --> 00:39:06,556 Speaker 2: you ask them to name the good and the bad 757 00:39:06,636 --> 00:39:08,996 Speaker 2: things that have come from it, they tend to name 758 00:39:09,236 --> 00:39:12,876 Speaker 2: more good than bad things. That's a very stunning fact 759 00:39:13,396 --> 00:39:16,036 Speaker 2: that we should just sit back and marvel at the 760 00:39:16,076 --> 00:39:19,076 Speaker 2: possibility that the worst thing in the world could happen 761 00:39:19,116 --> 00:39:23,036 Speaker 2: to us and probably more good than bad will come 762 00:39:23,076 --> 00:39:23,476 Speaker 2: out of it. 763 00:39:23,996 --> 00:39:26,436 Speaker 1: There are awful events that will cause you to feel 764 00:39:26,436 --> 00:39:31,036 Speaker 1: pain and hurt and loss, but we're fighters. When push 765 00:39:31,076 --> 00:39:35,076 Speaker 1: comes to shove, we're really resilient. The problem is we 766 00:39:35,156 --> 00:39:36,076 Speaker 1: don't realize that. 767 00:39:36,636 --> 00:39:38,836 Speaker 2: I think if you understand the power of the psychological 768 00:39:38,836 --> 00:39:42,596 Speaker 2: immune system, our remarkable ability to rationalize in the face 769 00:39:42,596 --> 00:39:47,196 Speaker 2: of adversity, it makes you braver. You realize that you 770 00:39:47,356 --> 00:39:50,996 Speaker 2: will make mistakes and it will be okay. I think 771 00:39:50,996 --> 00:39:52,396 Speaker 2: there's a lesson there for all of us. 772 00:39:59,156 --> 00:40:02,396 Speaker 1: After making this episode, I've become even more convinced about 773 00:40:02,436 --> 00:40:05,996 Speaker 1: that lesson. Hedonic adaptation means the lows of life aren't 774 00:40:06,036 --> 00:40:08,596 Speaker 1: going to be as awful as you imagine, just as 775 00:40:08,636 --> 00:40:11,516 Speaker 1: the hives will be more temporary than you hope. As 776 00:40:11,516 --> 00:40:14,276 Speaker 1: a psychologist, I already knew that winning the lottery and 777 00:40:14,316 --> 00:40:19,036 Speaker 1: other great circumstances don't bring lasting happiness, But honestly, I 778 00:40:19,076 --> 00:40:21,996 Speaker 1: often forget about the flip side. So I'm going to 779 00:40:21,996 --> 00:40:24,676 Speaker 1: make a conscious effort to be a bit braver, to 780 00:40:24,716 --> 00:40:27,876 Speaker 1: stop worrying so much, to remember that I have a 781 00:40:27,996 --> 00:40:31,316 Speaker 1: kind of emotional superpower, one that can get me through 782 00:40:31,356 --> 00:40:34,596 Speaker 1: the worst of circumstances. And I hope you'll do the same, 783 00:40:35,116 --> 00:40:38,316 Speaker 1: because even though your mind might tell you otherwise, joy 784 00:40:38,356 --> 00:40:41,596 Speaker 1: doesn't come from everything in life working out perfectly. It 785 00:40:41,596 --> 00:40:45,836 Speaker 1: comes from adopting better habits and better behaviors. All strategies 786 00:40:45,876 --> 00:40:49,276 Speaker 1: will be discussing in coming episodes of The Happiness Lab 787 00:40:49,476 --> 00:41:03,436 Speaker 1: with me Doctor Laurie Santos. If you enjoyed the show, 788 00:41:03,556 --> 00:41:05,516 Speaker 1: I'd be super grateful if you could spread the word 789 00:41:05,676 --> 00:41:08,516 Speaker 1: by leaving a rating and a review. It really does 790 00:41:08,556 --> 00:41:11,676 Speaker 1: help others listeners find us, and don't forget to tell 791 00:41:11,716 --> 00:41:13,996 Speaker 1: your friends. If you want to learn more about the 792 00:41:13,996 --> 00:41:16,076 Speaker 1: science you heard on the show, then check out our 793 00:41:16,116 --> 00:41:19,316 Speaker 1: website Happiness Lab dot fm. You can also sign up 794 00:41:19,316 --> 00:41:23,556 Speaker 1: for our newsletter to get exclusive content. The Happiness Lab 795 00:41:23,596 --> 00:41:26,236 Speaker 1: is co written and produced by Ryan Dilly. The show 796 00:41:26,316 --> 00:41:28,956 Speaker 1: is mixed and mastered by Evan Viola and edited by 797 00:41:29,036 --> 00:41:33,196 Speaker 1: Julia Barton, fact checking by Joseph Friedman, and our original 798 00:41:33,276 --> 00:41:37,276 Speaker 1: music was composed by Zachary Silver. Special thanks to Mio 799 00:41:37,356 --> 00:41:42,316 Speaker 1: La Belle, Carli mcgliori, Heather Faine, Maggie Taylor, Maya Knigg, 800 00:41:42,516 --> 00:41:45,516 Speaker 1: and Jacob Weisberg. The Happiness Lab is brought to you 801 00:41:45,556 --> 00:41:56,276 Speaker 1: by Pushkin Industries and me Doctor Laurie Sanders