1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: You and Me Both is a production of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: I'm Hillary Clinton, and this is You and Me Both. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: You know, I've given a lot of advice over the years, 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: and I've also sought and received a lot of advice, 5 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 1: some of it better than others. But when it came 6 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 1: to launching my career running for the Senate in New York, 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: one person whose advice everyone told me to seek out 8 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: was that of Luise Miranda. A venerated political consultant. Louise 9 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:41,879 Speaker 1: has given invaluable guidance to many New York candidates and 10 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 1: politicians over the years, including me as well here later 11 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,919 Speaker 1: in this episode. He's also advised his son, the award 12 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: winning composer, lyricist, actor, producer, and director Lynn Manuel Miranda. 13 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: But when it comes to seeking advice on a more 14 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: personal level, I know I'm not alone and thinking, there's 15 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: no one quite like Cheryl Strade, And that's where we 16 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: start today's episode. Cheryl Strade is an acclaimed author, best 17 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: known for her stunning and brutally honest memoir Wild From 18 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: Lost to Found on the Pacific Crest Trail, later made 19 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 1: into a hit film starring Reese Witherspoon in Cheryl began 20 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: anonymously writing the Dear Sugar advice column under the pseudonym Sugar. 21 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: Since then, the column developed a loyal following and has 22 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: had several lives, including as a podcast. It went on 23 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: hiatus for a while, but now she's brought it back 24 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: as a newsletter, which is good news to fans of 25 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: Cheryl's like I am. I've had the pleasure of getting 26 00:01:55,360 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: to know her, spending time first together during my campaign 27 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: for president, and then she's interviewed me about my books, 28 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: and I've been a guest on her podcast. I always 29 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: love talking with Cheryl, and I was so delighted to 30 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: have the chance to now interview her for this podcast. 31 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: I began by asking Cheryl how things have been for 32 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,239 Speaker 1: her and her family at home in Portland, Oregon over 33 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: the many, many months of this pandemic. To be honest, 34 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: I'm not alone in saying that these last couple of 35 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 1: years have been difficult ones in in my life and 36 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: my family's life. We're doing okay, but I have a 37 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: son and a daughter who are a junior and a 38 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: sophomore in high school, and it's been hard. I think 39 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: this pandemic has been especially difficult for teenagers people in 40 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: the early twenties. Of course, people who are older as well, 41 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: you know the terrible health risks that they've faced in 42 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: this pandemic. But teenagers socially mental health has been a struggle. 43 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: And I think, as we all know, adolescence is always 44 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: a difficul whole time, but it is a time when 45 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: you want to be with your peers and socializing and 46 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 1: having fun, and the pandemic has put a little crimp 47 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: in that, right. I have to say, I, for one, 48 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: was really pleased when you brought back the Dear Sugar 49 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: column last year after a couple of years hiatus as 50 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 1: a newsletter. What went into that decision about bringing back 51 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 1: the opportunity for you to hear from people and and 52 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: try to give some advice, right, So you know the 53 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: reason I brought it back, Really it goes back to 54 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: this essential belief that I have, and that is that 55 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: stories save us, the literature specifically, but are in general, 56 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: is the thing that allows us to see ourselves most clearly. 57 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: It tells us that we can go on. It tells 58 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: us that that we can endure suffering. It tell us 59 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: us that we can triumph, we can lose, we can 60 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: love that these experiences that we have, these struggles have, 61 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: they are universal and timeless, and so as a writer, 62 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: I have always felt that my mission my work in 63 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: an interesting way, not so unlike yours. You've spent your 64 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: lifetime as a public servant trying to make the world 65 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: a better place, make people's lives better. I've done that too, 66 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: in a very different way through writing. And what I 67 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: try to do is to remind us all of our 68 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: humanity that the universal threads that connect us. And of course, 69 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: in the Deer Sugar Advice column, I do that very 70 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: specifically because there is one person saying help, I'm struggling. 71 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: I can't go on. And what I try to do 72 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: is not just give advice. Anyone who reads the Deer 73 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: Sugar column knows that I don't just say Okay, do this, 74 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: this and this. What I say is, let us think 75 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: deeply about the question you're asking me. And so I 76 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: really just engage with people's struggles rather than telling them 77 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: what to do. And and I hope that that offers 78 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 1: some illuminations, consolation, something for them to hold onto so 79 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: they can't take that next step forward. Well, I think 80 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 1: that's the best kind of advice that anybody can give 81 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: to try to really understand in a radically empathetic way 82 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: what is going on, and the way that you do 83 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: it through storytelling really locates the advice in a broader 84 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: context so that it's not just the person writing into 85 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 1: you saying I'm a nurse and I have a teenager 86 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 1: and I've never been so tired or despairing, or in 87 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: a recent column where somebody said, you know, I'm estranged 88 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 1: from my mother, should I send her a birthday card? 89 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: I mean the way that you answer, the way you 90 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: weave in your own experiences, the way that you have 91 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: allusions to literature, to other more universal stories. It really 92 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: is a un gift. Cheryl. You are such a compelling writer. 93 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 1: Thank you, And then to put yourself, you know, in 94 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: the position now for over ten years of giving people 95 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 1: advice must have started off feeling kind of scary, like, 96 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: you know, did you wonder when you were asked to 97 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 1: pick up this column, how can I give advice? Or 98 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: I'm the one needing advice? Which I think, of course 99 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: that was the first thing I thought, is who am I, 100 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: you know, to be giving advice? Which I think is 101 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 1: always the person you want to go to for advice 102 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: because the person who thinks that they have all the 103 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: answers is the person who you're probably not going to 104 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: listen to. Right. We don't tend to enjoy being lectured 105 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 1: or feeling inferior to somebody. We tend to seek counsel 106 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: from somebody who they're down there. I always say I'm 107 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: down in the muck with the people who seek advice 108 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: from me. And so I think of myself as someone 109 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: as a writer who's job is to engage in a 110 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 1: really deep, deep, profound way with the truth and not 111 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: just to sit around and say, wow, this is what 112 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: I think or this is how I feel, but really 113 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: dig more deeply into the sort of the questions that 114 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: sit below the questions that have been posed to me. 115 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: That's a really important point, Yeah, because when someone asks 116 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: you something, it's often not really what they're asking you, 117 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: isn't it. Yeah, exactly. I mean, even just that question 118 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: that you decided, where a woman who's estranged from her 119 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: mother for good reasons, should I send her a birthday 120 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: card or not? You know, that's the question you think 121 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: you have for me. But what you're really grappling with 122 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: is how are you going to live with this? This gigantic, 123 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: sad decision that you've had to make to strange yourself 124 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: from this person who is supposed to be the closest 125 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: relationship of your life. Right And so it's a big question. 126 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: And what I often try to get people to do 127 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: is really grapple with the bigger questions. Right. Well, the 128 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: way that you answered that particular question was especially meaningful 129 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: because you talked about your own estrangement from your father, 130 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: and it happened to be around the time that he 131 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: passed away, after you had not had any contact with 132 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: him for many years. And just you're sharing what it 133 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: meant to have to cut off contact with your own father. 134 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: And you have a line in there which I was 135 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: so struck by you were sad because you weren't sad. 136 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: You had, in effect kind of made your peace with 137 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: not having a relationship with him. You gave permission to 138 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: not just the person seeking the advice, but all of 139 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: us who were reading that column to think about our 140 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 1: own lives, to think about our own relationships. And you know, 141 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: I I was really sad when my father died, in 142 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: part because I really had a difficult experience and connecting 143 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,479 Speaker 1: with him emotionally. You know, he was like the typical, 144 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 1: you know, product of the Great Depression. He was a 145 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 1: guy's guy who played football at Penn State, and then 146 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: you know, in World War Two he was a chief 147 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: petty officer training you know, young men to go off 148 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: to fight in the Pacific. And there was a side 149 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:24,839 Speaker 1: to him that I saw glimpses of which was really sensitive, 150 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: more emotionally astute than he seemed to be in most 151 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: of his daily interactions. And I, you know, I loved 152 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: him and I was grateful to him, but there was 153 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: ambivalence about, Oh, wouldn't it have been terrific if we 154 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: could have really connected, like you know, we could have 155 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: had so much more than we were capable of having, 156 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: And that your column just made me think about that, uh, 157 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: and made me reflect back on, you know, what I 158 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: did have, for which I was very grateful me. One 159 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: of my favorite memories of my father is even when 160 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: I was a little girl and I would I would 161 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: say to him, would you will you always love me? 162 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: And he'd say, oh, yes, And I'd say will you 163 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: love me if I murder somebody? He'd say, well, I 164 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: wouldn't like what you did, but I would love you. 165 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: And you know that was an interesting kind of basic 166 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,839 Speaker 1: way of saying, I will unconditionally love you, but I 167 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 1: won't always like what you do. So even a column 168 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: that wasn't directly connected with my own life caused me 169 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: to think about, you know, my own father. Oh. I 170 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: love hearing that. Hillary, and I do believe that when 171 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: we tell the truth about our lives, about what it's 172 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: like to be a daughter or a son, or a parent, 173 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: or a spouse or you know, fill in the blank, 174 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: when we really are honest about it, all kinds of 175 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 1: people will see themselves in us, even if their story 176 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: isn't an exact parallel or corollary. And I think that, 177 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: you know, one of the things you point out when 178 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: I said I was sad about not being sad, you know, 179 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: I spent years of my life grieving my dad. I 180 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: have and everyone out there who's listening to these words 181 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: right now, or who read that column, who's who's had 182 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: to let somebody go who they loved to know what 183 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: it feels like to actually really say I grieve you, 184 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: and I release you from my life, even though you 185 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: will go on living. You know, that's a big thing 186 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: to do. And I love knowing when I write those 187 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: words that people out there are helped by them, not 188 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: just the person who wrote me the letter. And then 189 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: other people like you say, well, I identify with aspects 190 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: of what she just said. In a sense, you do 191 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: have a front row seat on our collective psyche. And 192 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: thinking about when you first started the Deer Sugar column 193 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: ten years ago and then you took the hiatus, have 194 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: the problems changed. Have people's concerns changed over that ten 195 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:57,079 Speaker 1: year period. That's an interesting question and the answer is 196 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: yes and no. So there's always the same problems with 197 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: love and merit and will anyone ever loved me? And 198 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: how do I you know, should I stay in this relationship? 199 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: Or you know, the family conflicts they never change with 200 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: universal But there is one category of letter that I 201 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: have received so many letters like this over the last 202 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 1: couple of years, and that is the conflicts about politics 203 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 1: and belief systems. You know, especially in the lead up 204 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: to the election, you know, people were saying, do I 205 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: go to my mother's birthday celebration because I know, you 206 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: know a lot of her family are Trump voters and 207 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: I'm not, and we'll fight, and you know, I don't 208 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,559 Speaker 1: want to disturb you know, what, what do I do 209 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: if I'm dating somebody who has different political values. In 210 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 1: a couple of cases, it wasn't so much about who 211 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: they voted for, but beliefs that were espoused about race 212 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,719 Speaker 1: or you know, somebody's saying you're racist for saying this, 213 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: or you're homophobic for saying that, and then that causing 214 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: um a lot of family turmoil and sometimes in romantic 215 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: relationships too. And then of course there's this category of 216 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: people saying, I'm in despair about the state of our country, 217 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: right I'm worried about the divisiveness, I'm worried about the 218 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: anti factors, I'm worried about climate change and the powers 219 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 1: that be not really taking those those issues seriously. And 220 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: so that's a pretty new category. I mean, I used 221 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,319 Speaker 1: to get a couple of letters like that, but now 222 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: there's dozens of them, which probably doesn't surprise you. It 223 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: doesn't surprise me because I get the same letters. I 224 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: get the same kind of encounters from people literally walking 225 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: down the street. Do you have any thoughts about how 226 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: number One, you do deal with people who are in 227 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: your life but literally you can't listen to I have 228 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: one friend whose father isn't just a staunch supporter of Trump, 229 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: but taunts her and you know, is constantly in her 230 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 1: face about you know, how great Trump is and how 231 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: wrong everybody is. And up until now she has felt 232 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: like she could tolerate his idiosyncrasies and eccentricities and some 233 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: of his behavior, which you know sometimes you know, very 234 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: over the top. But now she feels like, what do 235 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: I don't want to end a relationship over a political difference. Well, 236 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: you know, it is complicated. What I try to do 237 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: first is remember that, yes, absolutely, things are extraordinarily divisive now, 238 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: and I would say that we're in a place that 239 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: we've never quite been to this extreme. And yet it's 240 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: also true that there has always been profound and deep 241 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: and real political disagreements in the nation and among families, 242 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: and you know, to take a breath and have some 243 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: perspective about this. I mean, I remember my own grandmother, 244 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: my mother's mother, who I loved. You know, we would 245 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: get in these terrible arguments. She would say things like 246 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: feminist ruined, feminist ruined. This country's so yeah, yeah, so 247 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: you've been there, and we can laugh about it now 248 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: because it's like okay, you know, so you know, with her, 249 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: what I thought is Okay, I disagree with you, and 250 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: I'm upset that you said that, But there are things 251 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: I love about you, and there are important connections we have, 252 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: and I'm just going to really focus on those things. 253 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: And maybe we're not going to talk about feminism, maybe 254 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: we're not going to talk about reproductive rights because we disagree. 255 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: So avoidance is a key thing in those relationships. But 256 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: what I would say to your friend you said that, um, 257 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: you know, her father taunts her about politics, and I 258 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: think the direction I would go in that relationship is 259 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: set aside the subject of that taunting, to say, listen, 260 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: would I allow this person to taunt me about you know, 261 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: fill in the blank, about my looks or about my 262 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: food I cooked for him, or you know, whatever that is. 263 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: It's rude behavior. It doesn't matter what they're talking about. 264 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: And that she can draw boundary and say she's not saying, listen, 265 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: we're not going to talk politics. She's saying, listen, you're 266 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: going to treat me with loving, kindness and respect. And 267 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: if you can't, you know, we need to take a 268 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: little distance. I think when somebody's me to you and 269 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: rude to you or disrespectful, you have the right to 270 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: set a boundary, and you should. I'm with you completely 271 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: on that. We're taking a quick break. Stay with us. 272 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: You know, is there some particular piece of advice that 273 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: you can recall that you've given over the years that 274 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: surprised you in the way it resonated with people. Well, 275 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: I hear from people, honestly every day, and it's been 276 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: so interesting to see the ways that my advice has 277 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: been taken into so many people's lives. The one that 278 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: honestly did surprise me that I hear about a lot 279 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: as a letter I wrote many years ago called the 280 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: Truth that Lives There, and I answered three letters instead 281 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: of one in this column, which I rarely do, but 282 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: I did it because I have so many letters in 283 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: this category. I wanted people to see the different stories 284 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: that were being sent to me, the different letters, and 285 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: what the letters were about is is this conundrum. I 286 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: care about this person I'm in a relationship with. I 287 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: love this person i'm in a relationship with, and I 288 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: want to end the relationship, but I feel bad about 289 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: doing it because he or she hasn't done anything quote 290 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: unquote wrong. And I wrote a letter back in which 291 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 1: I said, essentially, it's okay to do that. You know, 292 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: if you want to leave, it's okay to leave, because 293 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: wanting to leave is enough. You know, there's a way 294 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 1: to say to somebody, this is the truth about how 295 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: I feel, and this is what I need for my life. 296 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 1: It's a very simple thing. And yet I was surprised 297 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,439 Speaker 1: by how many people said that changed my life. Nobody 298 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 1: had ever said to me that I could trust myself 299 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: like that, that I could grant myself that kind of permission. 300 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: And of course I'm not talking about just any time 301 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: there's conflict in a relationship you could say, oh it's over, 302 00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 1: I up and leave. I'm talking about, you know, if 303 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 1: you're really feeling like something's not right for you. And 304 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 1: and this is kind of connected to this question you 305 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: just asked me about your friend whose father taughts her 306 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: about politics. Is ultimately about very calmly stating what you 307 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: want to need in your life. And you want a 308 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,199 Speaker 1: need a father who doesn't taunt you. You want and 309 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: need relationships that you feel content to be a part 310 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 1: of or happy to be a part of. And we 311 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: I think especially as women and girls, but I would 312 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: I say men and boys get this too. For some reason, 313 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: we're told not to trust ourselves a lot, and I 314 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: think so much of the work that I do is 315 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: about trying to shed light on that and maybe undo 316 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: some of that. I mean, I think the most radical 317 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: act is to tell the truth about who you are 318 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: and what you want. And how hard that is. It's 319 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: so hard, and it is and we now know from 320 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: a lot of research that's being done that your body 321 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 1: knows that you're not living your truth. That the aches 322 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: and pains, physical even ailments can often be connected to 323 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: you lying to yourself. You're not being truthful to yourself, 324 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 1: and your body is like, this is not working for me, 325 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: and so please figure that out right. It's it's interesting 326 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: too that you say research shows this, because you're right. 327 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: But the question I have for you is that research 328 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: doesn't even need to show it because we know it. 329 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 1: Like do you know that feeling you know? Have you 330 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: had times in your life? In fact, I know the 331 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: answer is yes, when you know something's not right and 332 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: you feel it in your body or you know something 333 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: is right that you're like, Okay, I just have a 334 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: good feeling about this or this is what's right for me, 335 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: and it's I'm not making it out of avoidance or denial. 336 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: I've really thought about it, I've done deep about it, 337 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: and this is what's right for me. I have to 338 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: ask you, um, you know, do your kids ever ask 339 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: you for your advice? Or are they to footbal teenagers 340 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 1: don't think you have anything to tell them? Please? No, 341 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: of course they don't ask me. No. I might give 342 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,439 Speaker 1: them advice Hillary, but they do not. They do not 343 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 1: listen to it or follow it in any way. I mean, 344 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: I think that that's been the heart. I mean you, 345 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: you know, you've lived through it with Chelsea, right like 346 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: you've parented a teen, and there she is now, this 347 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 1: nice young woman of full grown up, a mother herself. 348 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: I've had to really lean on women friends of mine 349 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 1: who have older kids, and I just say, okay, so 350 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: are they going to absorb some of these values? Because 351 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, my husband Brian and I sometimes have 352 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: felt really a kind of crisis of consciousness about this 353 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: because we are both very political, very much activist to 354 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: My husband's a documentary filmmaker and has made all kinds 355 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 1: of important films about social issues, and I have too, 356 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: and certainly we can see that our kids have absorbed that. 357 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: You know that they both are incredibly their progressives, and 358 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 1: they're there. They even push us further on areas issues. 359 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: They're very outspoken. But when it comes to values like 360 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 1: I don't know, clean up after yourself, you know, like 361 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: do your own dishes, like leave a place better than 362 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 1: you found it, that value has not been absorbed at all, 363 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: you know, Cheryl, I am such a fan of yours 364 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: for so many reasons, but your openness, your honesty, your kindness, 365 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 1: your constant quest for wisdom, which is a word I 366 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: revere because it can only come if you have lived 367 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: awhile and you've seen a lot, and you're trying to 368 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: absorb what it all means. Is such a a light shining. 369 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 1: And I want to end by you know, asking you 370 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: what do you see for the future. How do you 371 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: see both individuals and us collectively finding our way to 372 00:21:55,480 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: more stable ground after all we have experienced. Well, I 373 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: think that's the only way any of us can find 374 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 1: our way to stable ground, whether it be individually or 375 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 1: collectively as a nation, is to do so much of 376 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: what we've been talking about Hillary comes down to being 377 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: brave enough to tell the truth as often as possible 378 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: to the people who need to hear it. Trusting yourself 379 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 1: and expecting the kind of love and compassion and kindness 380 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: and light you put into the world, expecting it in return, 381 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: And that to me describes an empowered person. You know, 382 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I know that you have spent a lifetime 383 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: believing that we as individuals can make a political difference 384 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: in the world, whether it be as simple as making 385 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 1: sure we always cast that vote, whether it being are 386 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: the tiniest local election or the national elections, or you know, 387 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,400 Speaker 1: giving back to our communities and whatever way way we can. 388 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: And I think that you know, that kind of work, 389 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: that kind of what I'll just call sort of public 390 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: work UM, is really connected to the private work we 391 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: do in our lives in nurturing our own sense of 392 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: emotional well being UM, nurturing the relationships that are meaningful 393 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: and that matter to us. And so this very intimate 394 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: advice giving I do, as dear Sugar, I think, does 395 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: have social impact and does have political impact, because the 396 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: kind of person you are in your very own home 397 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 1: and your very own school and your very own community 398 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,120 Speaker 1: really extends out into the kind of citizen you are. 399 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: And so there's a lot at stake when it comes 400 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: to UM figuring out how to be in the world 401 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: and what we believe we're capable of. And so when 402 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 1: I think of the way forward, what I always think 403 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: is the work I can do today. It really matters. 404 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: And I think that's true of everyone every morning when 405 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: we when we wake up, we have something to give, 406 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: and the only way we can give it is if 407 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: we take care of ourselves. Amen. Amen, my friend. Well, 408 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: I cannot thank you enough for joining me for this podcast, 409 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: and I know that our listeners are going to relish 410 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: hearing from you. Uh and I look forward to our 411 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 1: past crossing and a continuation of this conversation. Thank you 412 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: so much for having me on your show. It's always 413 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: really a pleasure to speak to you. You always share 414 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: some wisdom and I'm grateful for that. You can get 415 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: more of Cheryl's Dear Sugar column by subscribing to her 416 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 1: substack at Cheryl Strait dot substack dot com. Advice comes 417 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: in many forms and from many sources. Some folks build 418 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:42,120 Speaker 1: entire careers out of giving advice, from acclaimed writers like 419 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: Cheryl to political consultants like my next guest, Luise Miranda. 420 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: Born in Puerto Rico, Luis came to New York in 421 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: the early nineteen seventies and almost immediately became a force 422 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: as an activist and leader. A veteran of multiple mayoral 423 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: administrations in the City of New York, Luise became a 424 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 1: fixture in New York politics, launching his own consulting firm 425 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 1: and becoming known for his astute advice and his uncanny 426 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: ability to bring people together, which, boy, do we need 427 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: now more than ever. As I mentioned at the top 428 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: of this episode, when I began thinking about launching my 429 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 1: campaign for public office, my very first to run for 430 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,919 Speaker 1: the Senate from New York, Luise became an invaluable advisor. 431 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: It is always a pleasure catching up with him, and 432 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: it's not easy because he never stops moving from his campaigns, 433 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: to his philanthropy to his artistic endeavors. He's one of 434 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: the most energetic and hard working people I know. When 435 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 1: we spoke, his son Lens catchy song we Don't Talk 436 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: About Bruno from Disney's hit movie in Canto was at 437 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,479 Speaker 1: the top of the charts. So let me start just 438 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 1: by checking in. Have you and your family been running 439 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: around singing we Don't talk about Bruno? NonStop? Is? Yes? Uh? 440 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: In fuck? I take Lee Manuel's little one to school 441 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 1: and we play. We don't talk about Bruno non stop 442 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 1: until we get to school. So for forty five minutes 443 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 1: we're singing, we don't talk about Bruno. My two older 444 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: grandchildren are exactly the same way. My granddaughter wakes up 445 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: singing it. Well, I want to talk about you too. 446 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously we both are huge admirers of Lynn Manuel, 447 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 1: but I'm also a huge admirer of you, Louise. I mean, 448 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: you know, I think I first met you back in 449 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 1: the late nineties when I was thinking about running for 450 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 1: the Senate, and everybody I talked to in New York said, 451 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: there's one person you have to talk to. That's Louise Miranda, 452 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: And I said, okay. And I was so grateful to 453 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: have your help and your guidance during that campaign. And 454 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 1: you've been involved in New York politics for a long time, 455 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: you know, in as I recall the story, you went 456 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: from picketing then mayor and got to working for him. 457 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: So yeah, tell me and our listeners how you got 458 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: involved in New York politics, and particularly this cotch story, 459 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: because that's a really interesting way. It's really interesting, Hillary, 460 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: because when I came to New York in the early seventies. 461 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: I was so typical migrant from Porto Rico. Takes a 462 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 1: little while for you to pay any attention to your 463 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: local politics, and it took a little while for me 464 00:27:55,080 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: to understand the importance of politics in our lives, from 465 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: when do they pick up the garbage and how frequently 466 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: they pick up the garbage to the big palace of 467 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:15,400 Speaker 1: the sessions that impact all of ours. So I got 468 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: involved when we moved to Washington Heights in the Parents 469 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: Movement District six UH with an overcrowded district, one of 470 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: three very overcrowded districts in the city of New York. 471 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:34,199 Speaker 1: And my daughter was going too one of those schools, 472 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: and got involved in school board politics to increase and 473 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: advocate to increase the number of schools. And then this 474 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: catch opportunity came up and sort of a friend said, 475 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: why don't you apply. I'm like, I don't know that 476 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: you apply to be special advisor to the mayor. I 477 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: think that your call upon who served in positions like that. 478 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: You don't just send a resume. Uh, but I did 479 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: send the resume. This story leaves out a little of 480 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: the color, Luise, because you were picketing him, fighting for 481 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: more schools, and you were often the person when the 482 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: mayor would show up somewhere who was leading the charge, yelling, 483 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: you know, demanding and honestly having known a conscious I 484 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,239 Speaker 1: was lucky enough to I think they saw a like 485 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: minded person in you, and you know got you that job. 486 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: I will tell you when I had the interview the mayor, 487 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: set listen, you and I are not going to agree 488 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: on everything, but I think you and I are going 489 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: to agree on fundamental things for the Latino community. And 490 00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: he went through a list of those and then he said, however, 491 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: when you disagree with me, you have to do it privately. Right, 492 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: that's fair? And I thought, well, this seems like a 493 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: fair ask from someone who's going to be my boss. Yes. Right, 494 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: And you did become a political consultant, and you know, 495 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: it's a word we throw around a lot, but I 496 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: think it'd be interesting for people outside of politics to 497 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: know what does that mean? Kind of walk us through, 498 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: you know, a kind of typical experience with somebody who's 499 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: thinking about running for office. What kind of advice do 500 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: they typically want? What is it you provide for them? 501 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: I really start Hillary with trying to understand who that 502 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: person is at the end of the day. My training 503 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: as a clinical psychologist, which I thought was the waste 504 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: of my time, actually came handy. I just want to 505 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: make sure that you are who you say you are, 506 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: because voters are not stupid. Voters are looking for people 507 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: who are telling a story that it's real so that 508 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: they can connect with them. At the end of the day, 509 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: whatever you're talking about has to go hand in hand 510 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: with whatever it's happening in society, and you have to 511 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: have a connection from a particular point of view. If 512 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: you are a conservative, that's not a candidate that I'm 513 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: interested in helping, but I understand that that is a perspective. 514 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: So I want to connect with whomever the candidate is. 515 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: And then I want to spend some time figuring out 516 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: what is the best way to tell your message. And 517 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: then there's the part that is part of the science. 518 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: You also need to look at pulse. You want to 519 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: see what the electorate it's thinking. You want to know 520 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: what your district it's like. You know, people tend to 521 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: throw all latinos in the same box. Big mistake, big mistake. 522 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: So if you're running on the district where half of 523 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: the people are humans or venezuelans. That's a very different mindset. 524 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: So I want to know all of that. Well, you've 525 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: given advice to nearly everybody on the Democratic side in 526 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: New York. I know Chuck Schumer, Kirsen, gillibrand obviously Attorney 527 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: General Tis James, and many many others. It has to 528 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: sometimes be hard to deliver difficult news or to tell 529 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: somebody who's running you know this isn't working. You've got 530 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: to shift gears. How do you talk to somebody when 531 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: you know the advice is difficult, or you actually meet 532 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: resistance as the person doesn't want to hear it. I 533 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 1: think the most you could do is to talk it out. 534 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: First of all, there's better moments than others. Sometimes things 535 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: are happening in real time and you have to give 536 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: news in real time. But for the most part, there 537 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: is better times than others, and you're looking for those 538 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 1: better times. Where you're candidate, it's more relaxed, it's less tired, 539 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: it's willing to listen. And the second part, I just 540 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: believe in pull the band aids off. I not want 541 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: to sugarcoat, but just to say it and let's talk 542 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: it over. So then we figure out what it's the 543 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: best way to proceed. But I believe in telling the truth. 544 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: I believe it in my family, I believe it in 545 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: my work. Sometimes I'm a little around the ages, you know. 546 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: My wife tells me, can you sugarcoat it a little? 547 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: And I'm like, I'm not the best doing that, but 548 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: I'm willing to talk it over until he feels better. Yeah, 549 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,840 Speaker 1: I get it. You said something that I want to 550 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,439 Speaker 1: unpack a little bit because I don't think people really 551 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: understand the importance of you pointing out that when we 552 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 1: talk about the Latino community, this is not a monolithic community. 553 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 1: There is so much difference in background, approach. Lots of 554 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: times you know where they stand on political issues of 555 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:44,760 Speaker 1: all kinds, and you have particular expertise in reaching Latino voters. 556 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: And what is the first thing you think about that 557 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 1: any candidate should do if they want to reach and 558 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: convince Latino voters to support them. Let's understand who's the audience. 559 00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: Are we in a community that is predominantly met Mexican, 560 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: were in a community that is predominantly Puerto Rican? How 561 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,319 Speaker 1: old is this community in your district? It's not the 562 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: same thing to be in Arizona when you're talking to 563 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: third generation Mexican Americans and newly migrated Mexican Americans. So 564 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,399 Speaker 1: you need to know a bit of who the audience 565 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 1: is before you open your mouth, particularly if you don't 566 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 1: have a history with that group. If you have a 567 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: history with that group, it's a totally different mulgame. You know, 568 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 1: percent people would tell me during the last election, will 569 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: get the lion's share of Cubans for Biden because you 570 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 1: got meaning you, Hillary Clinton, you got the lions share 571 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 1: of Cubans for you. Different reality, You had a relationship 572 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: for years. So it's not the same thing when you're 573 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 1: introducing someone, not because they don't know who he is, 574 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 1: but they want to really figure out ideologically who that 575 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: person is exactly. Well, you know, I think sometimes people 576 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: forget it comes back to relationships. You have to know 577 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 1: people and they have to know you. And how do 578 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:29,880 Speaker 1: you think we could better convey and direct Democrats to 579 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: do a better job and understanding and communicating with the 580 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 1: Latino voters. Uh, to make sure they know what the 581 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: issues are, to make sure they know who the audience 582 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 1: it's going to be. Uh. You don't go to South 583 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 1: Texas to talk about open borders, right, do you go 584 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: to South Texas to figure out how do we continue 585 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: to have a relationship with our neighbors. How do we 586 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:03,320 Speaker 1: make sure our new neighbors come in an orderly fashion 587 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: into the country. Because we do make a better country 588 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,399 Speaker 1: and a diverse country. It's a better country. But you 589 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:17,399 Speaker 1: need to convey to people that you do believe that 590 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 1: it must happen in an orderly fashion. And I think 591 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 1: that part of the issue. Also, it's we criticized the 592 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: Republicans at seventies seven percent of them or seventies six 593 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: percent of them are with Trump. They are a monolithic 594 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:39,320 Speaker 1: party right now, We're not right. We have a diversity 595 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 1: of opinions, and as a result, we have to learn 596 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:48,759 Speaker 1: about what that diversity of opinions are and who are 597 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 1: the best messengers for different Latino communities. That's exactly right. 598 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:09,400 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Well, you know, we've got a 599 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,880 Speaker 1: new governor and a new mayor in New York. Kathy 600 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: Hoco is the governor and Eric Adams is our new mayor. 601 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 1: Have you given advice to either or both of them? 602 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: I actually ended up in the Mayor's transition committee in 603 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 1: Arts and Culture as well, as in the Appointment Committee. 604 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,799 Speaker 1: So I have had the opportunity to work with some 605 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:38,760 Speaker 1: of the team and it has been a great experience. 606 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: The only thing that happens Hillary when we get older 607 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: is that I care less and less about what somebody 608 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 1: else thinks. Amen. Brother, I think that with age comes 609 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 1: wisdom quote and quote, and the ability to be a 610 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:08,240 Speaker 1: little bit more honest about how you see the world. 611 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 1: And you've never been shy before you got older. I 612 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 1: have never been shy. As I get older, I get bolder. 613 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 1: I love that older and bolder. I love it. So 614 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 1: you could tell me I don't think that I'm going 615 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 1: to do that, and that's cool, I understand. But you 616 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: asked from my advice, I'm giving it to you. Well. 617 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,680 Speaker 1: The other thing that you and I have worked on 618 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 1: is uh your commitment to helping candidates get elected across 619 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,760 Speaker 1: our country. And you chair a group that I've worked 620 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,400 Speaker 1: with and that I think is doing terrific, you know, 621 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 1: candidate Recruitment and Support, and that's called the Latino Victory Fund. 622 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,320 Speaker 1: When you think about encouraging people to run for office, 623 00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: do you think we're making progress convincing democrats and in 624 00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 1: your case, Latino democrats to run for the unglamorous offices 625 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,839 Speaker 1: the school board, like you started off in politics advocating 626 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:13,279 Speaker 1: for the local jobs that you know, even boards of 627 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,840 Speaker 1: election which the Republicans are literally trying to take over. 628 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 1: Are we making progress convincing people on our side of 629 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: the political aisle to do that. I think we are good. Okay, 630 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 1: we know that to create the bench, you don't start 631 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:34,799 Speaker 1: by running for president. And sometimes I meet with candidates 632 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,839 Speaker 1: who said I want to run for Congress. I'm like, yeah, 633 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,760 Speaker 1: have you thought about your local assembly, your local city council? 634 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 1: Because politics it's no different than any other profession. You learn, 635 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 1: ask you do. I hear my son respond all the time. 636 00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 1: People said to him, Hamilton's was a much more complex 637 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,440 Speaker 1: creation that in the heights. And of course I know 638 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: more about how to make r well. The same thing 639 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 1: happens in politics. You become more season and by creating 640 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:18,800 Speaker 1: that bench, you need to work with people to run 641 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 1: for all of those offices. Uh. We are doing a 642 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,440 Speaker 1: lot of that in Florida. We are doing a lot 643 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,799 Speaker 1: of that in Georgia. In places where we're beginning to 644 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:37,399 Speaker 1: increase population, you begin by creating a bench and by 645 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:44,400 Speaker 1: running people in smaller jurisdiction, more homogeneous jurisdictions where the 646 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 1: issues are probably less, but they begin to get their 647 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:55,960 Speaker 1: policies ready when they go for higher office. Absolutely, you're, 648 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 1: you know, a pretty effective parent. I mean, I know 649 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:01,360 Speaker 1: little bit about your family. You had a lot of 650 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:05,080 Speaker 1: help from. You know, your wife obviously Lose is a great, great, 651 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,600 Speaker 1: you know, partner and parent with you. She is she 652 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,320 Speaker 1: is the anchor you can tell. I mean, she really 653 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 1: has such a an anchoring role in your lives. Um, 654 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,440 Speaker 1: do you have parenting advice? How did you raise you know, 655 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,359 Speaker 1: such a great daughter and such an amazing son. It's 656 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:27,480 Speaker 1: it's by being insightful and being able to put yourself 657 00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:32,920 Speaker 1: in their shoes at whatever age they are, in whatever 658 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:40,160 Speaker 1: circumstances they're in. And sometimes the advice is no, you 659 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,799 Speaker 1: know what I mean, Sometimes the advice is no. But 660 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,040 Speaker 1: I always remember, and Emmanuel tells it very with a 661 00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:50,160 Speaker 1: lot of tenderness that when he was off for a 662 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 1: full time job at Hunter Elementary School as an English teacher. 663 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,720 Speaker 1: You know, those are the kinds of jobs that people 664 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:03,800 Speaker 1: kill for where you stayed there until you retire, and 665 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,480 Speaker 1: he was offered one of those jobs. He loved teaching 666 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:12,760 Speaker 1: And the incredible thing this is before emails, people actually 667 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:17,440 Speaker 1: wrote letters to each other. So I actually wrote me 668 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,640 Speaker 1: this letter and said, what do I do? Do I 669 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:27,080 Speaker 1: take this job or do I continue to be attempt 670 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,280 Speaker 1: make enough to pay the rent and continue to work 671 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,000 Speaker 1: in in the Heights, which was a musical that he'd 672 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,400 Speaker 1: been working on since he was in college, right and 673 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:41,240 Speaker 1: his first hit that he got his first Tony. And 674 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:46,880 Speaker 1: I thought to myself, a good parent will say take 675 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,920 Speaker 1: a full time job, you will love that job, you 676 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:55,320 Speaker 1: are a great teacher, and keep writing in the Heights 677 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 1: on the side. But I knew that that was wrong, 678 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:05,400 Speaker 1: that I was him. I needed to have In the 679 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:10,760 Speaker 1: Heights as my priority. So being able to say, no, baby, 680 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,880 Speaker 1: you don't take the full time job. You continue to 681 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,560 Speaker 1: work in in the Heights. You make enough to pay 682 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:24,000 Speaker 1: your rent. You could continue and raid our refrigerator, but 683 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,919 Speaker 1: that's what you need to do as a twenty five 684 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:33,759 Speaker 1: year old kid. So being able to look at the 685 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:39,000 Speaker 1: issue from your kids perspective, it's key to be in 686 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,200 Speaker 1: a good parent. Well, it does sound like you learned 687 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:46,880 Speaker 1: a few things in that psychology course, you know, Luise. 688 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 1: I just can't thank you enough for talking with me. 689 00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,200 Speaker 1: You have done so much to move both candidates and 690 00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:57,520 Speaker 1: issues forward. And yes, as we grow older, we grow 691 00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,960 Speaker 1: bolder because you, you and I are not going off 692 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,600 Speaker 1: into the you know, into the sunset. As I say 693 00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,759 Speaker 1: all the time, either someone in the office is going 694 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:11,480 Speaker 1: to call my wife and say he died, or my 695 00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,239 Speaker 1: wife is going to call the office and said he 696 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,080 Speaker 1: didn't wake up. I'm going to be working until that 697 00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:22,600 Speaker 1: last moment. I love it. Music to my ears. Thank you, 698 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:30,719 Speaker 1: my friend, Thank you for having me. Louise truly is 699 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:34,960 Speaker 1: non stop to keep up with all the great work 700 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:38,879 Speaker 1: he's doing. You can follow him on Twitter. And as 701 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,920 Speaker 1: you think about the advice you give and receive in 702 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,160 Speaker 1: your own life, always remember how important it is to 703 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 1: pay attention to the advice your own body and mind 704 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,600 Speaker 1: give you two and to live your own truth as 705 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,759 Speaker 1: I talked about with Cheryl. And if you'd like to 706 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,520 Speaker 1: share advice you want to give, or you have ideas 707 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,719 Speaker 1: about out what we should talk about on our podcast, 708 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:07,399 Speaker 1: please email us at You and Me Both pod at 709 00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:14,880 Speaker 1: gmail dot com. You and Me Both is brought to 710 00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:19,480 Speaker 1: you by I Heart Radio. We're produced by Julie Subran, 711 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:24,320 Speaker 1: Kathleen Russo and Rob Russo, with help from Huma Aberdeen, 712 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:30,840 Speaker 1: Oscar Flores, Lindsay Hoffman, Brianna Johnson, Nick Merrill, Laura Olan, 713 00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:38,040 Speaker 1: Lona Valmorrow, and Benita Zaman. Our engineer is Zack McNeice 714 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:42,400 Speaker 1: and the original music is by Forrest Gray. If you 715 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,880 Speaker 1: like you and me both, please tell someone else about it. 716 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,680 Speaker 1: And if you're not already a subscriber, what are you 717 00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,440 Speaker 1: waiting for? You can subscribe to you and me both 718 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:57,400 Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever 719 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,920 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening, and may you 720 00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:06,200 Speaker 1: give and get some hard earned wisdom in the days ahead. 721 00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:10,000 Speaker 1: And I'll see you next week. M