WEBVTT - Short Stuff: Skittles and TIO2

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh, There's Chuck, Ben,

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<v Speaker 1>Dave gid Yo.

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<v Speaker 2>All right. So this is one that is a little

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<v Speaker 2>frustrating because I found over the years, I think we

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<v Speaker 2>both agree that it's so hard sometimes to find follow

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<v Speaker 2>ups to legal matters. Like there's a lot of hay

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<v Speaker 2>made when a lawsuit is put out put out there

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<v Speaker 2>or introduced or whatever, but then it's always so hard

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<v Speaker 2>to find resolution. And we're talking about the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>in July twenty twenty two, a man in California filed

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<v Speaker 2>a lawsuit against Mars Incorporated because of skittles, and because

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<v Speaker 2>specifically an additive called titanium dioxide class action lawsuit that

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<v Speaker 2>has health risks. And I tried to find a follow

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<v Speaker 2>up and what I saw that that was dismissed.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh was it? I didn't see that.

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<v Speaker 2>In November twenty two without prejudice, and that which means

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<v Speaker 2>a new lawsuit can happen. And another woman in summer

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<v Speaker 2>last year, in twenty twenty three, like a year later

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<v Speaker 2>again in California, has sued again, and I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>the status of that one.

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<v Speaker 1>The reason they're picking on skittles in particular, it seems

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<v Speaker 1>like is because back in twenty sixteen, Skittle said to

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<v Speaker 1>the world, while I should say, Mars Zinc said to

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<v Speaker 1>the world, Hey, we're not going to use titanium dioxide anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>We're going to phase it out of our candies, specifically Skittles.

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<v Speaker 1>And here we are in twenty twenty four and Skittles

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<v Speaker 1>still has titanium dioxide. In fact, the candy makers or

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<v Speaker 1>food producers who use titanium dioxide in their products aren't

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<v Speaker 1>even required to list it as titanium dioxide. It's listed

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<v Speaker 1>as titanium dioxide, which I take to be a giant

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<v Speaker 1>f you to all the people who filed lawsuits against

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<v Speaker 1>Mars for that.

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<v Speaker 2>What I don't get is why they would make some

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<v Speaker 2>big announcement about getting it out of their candy and

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<v Speaker 2>then keeping it there.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, but I'll bet the CEO that was

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<v Speaker 1>in charge during that period is no longer there.

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<v Speaker 2>I bet you're right.

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<v Speaker 1>They were like, uh, we have bad news, like we

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<v Speaker 1>can't make Skittles without titanium dioxide.

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<v Speaker 2>And he said, what, so should we talk about titanium dioxide? Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>all right. Titanium is an element in the Earth's crust.

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<v Speaker 2>It is naturally occurring thing. Not anything unusual about titanium.

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<v Speaker 2>But when it reacts interacts with oxygen, rather, it forms

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<v Speaker 2>a white powder, a very fine white powder called titanium

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<v Speaker 2>dioxide that evidently is used as a whitening agent. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>and a lot of processed foods. Not this is not

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<v Speaker 2>we're using skittles because there was a lawsuit. But this

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<v Speaker 2>stuff's in a lot of stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>It is. And the reason it's a whitening agent is

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<v Speaker 1>because it reflects light so well, specifically all types of light.

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<v Speaker 1>So it appears white, but it reflects it so well.

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<v Speaker 1>It's used as an ingredient in sunscreen, and it's used

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<v Speaker 1>as an ingredient kind of as sunscreen UV protected in

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<v Speaker 1>other stuff like makeup and toothpaste. Right, so it is everywhere.

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<v Speaker 1>The thing is is titanium dioxide. It's a naturally occurring thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Like you said, titanium is natural, So titanium dioxide it's

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<v Speaker 1>just what happens when titanium comes in contact with oxygen.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>The problem with it being used in the food industry

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<v Speaker 1>and personal care industry is that it's used in a

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<v Speaker 1>specific form as titanium dioxide nanoparticles, and we're talking like

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<v Speaker 1>nano nanoparticles. They're the little tiny particles of titanium dioxide

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<v Speaker 1>of appear in your food. Are about one hundred nanometers across.

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<v Speaker 1>Your hair is eighty thousand nanometers across. And because they're

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<v Speaker 1>so small, they can scatter light. Right, that's the appropriate

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<v Speaker 1>response to that. They can scale. The smaller they are,

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<v Speaker 1>the more effective they are at scattering lights. So that's

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<v Speaker 1>why they want to use those really tiny nanoparticles. But

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<v Speaker 1>the concern is because they're so small, it can go

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<v Speaker 1>to all sorts of different parts of your body, and

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<v Speaker 1>if it starts to accumulate, it can cause all sorts

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<v Speaker 1>of problems. That's the basis of that lawsuit.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they can get in the bloodstream. What I want

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<v Speaker 2>to know is what does that stuff do for a skittle.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, because it's not like Skittles is white?

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<v Speaker 2>No white skittle?

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<v Speaker 1>No, I think there actually is a white like special skittle,

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<v Speaker 1>like a limited edition, but this is used in regular skills. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe it makes them reflective. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So we mentioned the nanoparticles. They can get the

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<v Speaker 2>blood stream. You said they can accumulate. They can accumulate

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<v Speaker 2>in your organs, which is pretty scary, especially, I mean

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<v Speaker 2>any organ but especially when you're talking about when of

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<v Speaker 2>your filtering mechanisms in your body, like your liver or

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<v Speaker 2>your kidney. If you're trying to filter things and more

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<v Speaker 2>bad things are going in, that's a problem.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So we should say specifically, there is no pure

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<v Speaker 1>viewed evidence that nanoparticles of titanium dioxide migrate to your

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<v Speaker 1>liver or your kidneys, or that they accumulate there. There's

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<v Speaker 1>no evidence whatsoever, and that's what the Titanium Producers Association says.

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<v Speaker 1>They like to point that out. The Titanium Dioxide Manufacturers

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<v Speaker 1>Association website says there's nothing that says that food grade

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<v Speaker 1>titanium dioxide is harmful to human health. Just want to

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<v Speaker 1>put that out there everybody. That's what they say.

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<v Speaker 2>But yees.

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<v Speaker 1>So it makes sense to be skeptical because while we're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about here are nothing but animal studies, almost exclusively

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<v Speaker 1>mouse studies, and they do cause damage in mice for sure,

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<v Speaker 1>and they have been shown to inflame tissues in humans

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<v Speaker 1>when inhaled. You're not inhaling titanium dioxide nanoparticles when you

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<v Speaker 1>eat skittles. But if you put everything together, yes, it's

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<v Speaker 1>good to be skeptical, but it's also good to be

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<v Speaker 1>aware of the concept of xenobiotics and their effect on

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<v Speaker 1>the human body, as well as the corporate history of

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<v Speaker 1>food manufacturers putting unsafe, harmful products in food long after

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<v Speaker 1>we've figured out like, no, this is probably a problem.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's it's good to use your brain. But also

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<v Speaker 1>you know, no, like there's no like smoking gun here

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<v Speaker 1>that says yes, titanium dioxide is going to wreck your

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<v Speaker 1>liver and give you cancer. That's just not there yet,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's it's possible enough that people are like, just

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<v Speaker 1>get that out of there. Who cares how extra white

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<v Speaker 1>you're You're well, you're not eating tide, but your your

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<v Speaker 1>colgate is you.

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<v Speaker 2>Just co o a, you did it both sides, co

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<v Speaker 2>o A. That's amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>That explains why I feel faint.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, we'll take a break. I'm gonna give Josh

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<v Speaker 2>some smelling salts and we'll be right back. As why

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<v Speaker 2>why sk tough?

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<v Speaker 1>You should know, definitely should know.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not childs of each.

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<v Speaker 1>Ski.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, So you're probably wondering, well, we have an FDA.

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<v Speaker 2>What do they say about all this? Oh?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they're great.

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<v Speaker 2>The FDA says that, uh, titanium dioxide is a food

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<v Speaker 2>addits of the food. Great stuff doesn't exceed. If it

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't exceed one percent of the food's weight, then it's

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<v Speaker 2>all fine and dandy. However, there are companies and nations

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<v Speaker 2>and continents that are getting rid of this stuff. In

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<v Speaker 2>twenty fifteen, Dunkin Donuts said, you know what, we're gonna

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<v Speaker 2>use titanium dioxide anymore. Uh, and our powdered tuggar toppings.

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<v Speaker 2>The EU, of course, they're always first in line saying

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<v Speaker 2>we don't need that stuff. Let's just get rid of it,

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<v Speaker 2>let's pan it.

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<v Speaker 1>They are always a person in line saying that can

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<v Speaker 1>harm people who we care about.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, dang socialists, nanny state. So, uh, you mentioned

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<v Speaker 2>that the Titanic, you know, big titanium dioxide is like, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>you guys don't need to worry about this. It's in

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<v Speaker 2>such small levels, it's not a big deal. And like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you'd have to be a real small kid

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<v Speaker 2>to really get the worst effect. Like, oh, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know kids who eat skitt holes.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, that's a big one. So the Environmental Working

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<v Speaker 1>Group released a paper a little while ago that said

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<v Speaker 1>that this stuff is in thousands of children's sweets, is

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<v Speaker 1>an ingredient. And yeah, if you're small, if this stuff

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<v Speaker 1>does accumulate at all, the smaller the body, the more

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<v Speaker 1>impact that accumulation's probably going to have. And it has

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<v Speaker 1>been shown to make it through the gut, like it

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<v Speaker 1>does make it into the body beyond just your digestive system.

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<v Speaker 1>But as the Titanium Dioxide Manufacturers Association points out, food

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<v Speaker 1>grade titanium or yeah, food grade titanium dioxide called E

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<v Speaker 1>one seven to one. Uh, it can't have more than

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<v Speaker 1>four of titanium dioxide to it in the nanoparticles, I

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<v Speaker 1>should say, and that I guess poison dot Org, which

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<v Speaker 1>is the National Poison Control Center's website, said that.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought that was the band's website. Is that not right?

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<v Speaker 1>No, there's this poison. So the National Poison Control Center

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<v Speaker 1>says that one tenth of one percent of the titanium

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<v Speaker 1>dioxide that is in your food stuff, which is just

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<v Speaker 1>one percent of the food by weight, So a very

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<v Speaker 1>very tiny fraction passes through the gut and makes it

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<v Speaker 1>into the rest of your body. So there's just just

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<v Speaker 1>again two ways of looking at this. It does get

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<v Speaker 1>out of your gut and into the rest of your body,

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<v Speaker 1>where it may accumulate if you enough skittles or starbursts

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<v Speaker 1>or something like that. But there's no studies yet that

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<v Speaker 1>show that it actually causes any harm.

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<v Speaker 2>My whole deal is like, just why just don't put

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<v Speaker 2>it in there and no one will ever notice or care.

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<v Speaker 1>Frankly, if don't Donuts can do without it for their

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<v Speaker 1>powdered donuts, then you can do it for skittles, because

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<v Speaker 1>there's I genuinely don't understand why it's in there. I

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<v Speaker 1>saw one place where it's used as a flavor enhancer.

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<v Speaker 1>Everyone else says it's a color enhancer, so maybe it

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<v Speaker 1>has something to do with the flavor of skittles. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know. I also saw that if it is used

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<v Speaker 1>as a flavor enhancer, it's mustard, and I don't remember

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<v Speaker 1>any mustard flavored skittles.

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<v Speaker 2>Gross.

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<v Speaker 1>That could be pretty gross. It could also be great.

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<v Speaker 1>I haven't decided yet, but yeah, I'm with you. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't understand why it has to be in there anything, Like.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's one of those things where no consumer

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<v Speaker 2>would notice. And of course I say that, and then

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<v Speaker 2>a bag of skittles comes out like a like a solid,

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<v Speaker 2>weird lump, like a pebbly brick, right with hair.

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<v Speaker 1>Growing on it?

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<v Speaker 2>Like, what the hell is this? Yeah, I mean I

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<v Speaker 2>don't need skittles anyway. And Ruby didn't eat a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of candy. Uh, it's weird.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I've always like candy. I like fruit candy, I

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<v Speaker 1>like chocolate candy. I do like skittles. I love star bursts.

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<v Speaker 1>They have it in there too, So yeah, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>I'm probably riddled with with titanium dioxide.

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<v Speaker 2>I think you'll be right.

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<v Speaker 1>You got anything else?

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<v Speaker 2>I got nothing else?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, then we're done talking about titanium dioxide for now,

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<v Speaker 1>and short stuff is out.

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<v Speaker 2>You Know.

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