Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh, There's Chuck, Ben,
Speaker 1: Dave gid Yo.
Speaker 2: All right. So this is one that is a little
Speaker 2: frustrating because I found over the years, I think we
Speaker 2: both agree that it's so hard sometimes to find follow
Speaker 2: ups to legal matters. Like there's a lot of hay
Speaker 2: made when a lawsuit is put out put out there
Speaker 2: or introduced or whatever, but then it's always so hard
Speaker 2: to find resolution. And we're talking about the fact that
Speaker 2: in July twenty twenty two, a man in California filed
Speaker 2: a lawsuit against Mars Incorporated because of skittles, and because
Speaker 2: specifically an additive called titanium dioxide class action lawsuit that
Speaker 2: has health risks. And I tried to find a follow
Speaker 2: up and what I saw that that was dismissed.
Speaker 1: Oh was it? I didn't see that.
Speaker 2: In November twenty two without prejudice, and that which means
Speaker 2: a new lawsuit can happen. And another woman in summer
Speaker 2: last year, in twenty twenty three, like a year later
Speaker 2: again in California, has sued again, and I don't know
Speaker 2: the status of that one.
Speaker 1: The reason they're picking on skittles in particular, it seems
Speaker 1: like is because back in twenty sixteen, Skittle said to
Speaker 1: the world, while I should say, Mars Zinc said to
Speaker 1: the world, Hey, we're not going to use titanium dioxide anymore.
Speaker 1: We're going to phase it out of our candies, specifically Skittles.
Speaker 1: And here we are in twenty twenty four and Skittles
Speaker 1: still has titanium dioxide. In fact, the candy makers or
Speaker 1: food producers who use titanium dioxide in their products aren't
Speaker 1: even required to list it as titanium dioxide. It's listed
Speaker 1: as titanium dioxide, which I take to be a giant
Speaker 1: f you to all the people who filed lawsuits against
Speaker 1: Mars for that.
Speaker 2: What I don't get is why they would make some
Speaker 2: big announcement about getting it out of their candy and
Speaker 2: then keeping it there.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I'll bet the CEO that was
Speaker 1: in charge during that period is no longer there.
Speaker 2: I bet you're right.
Speaker 1: They were like, uh, we have bad news, like we
Speaker 1: can't make Skittles without titanium dioxide.
Speaker 2: And he said, what, so should we talk about titanium dioxide? Yes,
Speaker 2: all right. Titanium is an element in the Earth's crust.
Speaker 2: It is naturally occurring thing. Not anything unusual about titanium.
Speaker 2: But when it reacts interacts with oxygen, rather, it forms
Speaker 2: a white powder, a very fine white powder called titanium
Speaker 2: dioxide that evidently is used as a whitening agent. Yes,
Speaker 2: and a lot of processed foods. Not this is not
Speaker 2: we're using skittles because there was a lawsuit. But this
Speaker 2: stuff's in a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1: It is. And the reason it's a whitening agent is
Speaker 1: because it reflects light so well, specifically all types of light.
Speaker 1: So it appears white, but it reflects it so well.
Speaker 1: It's used as an ingredient in sunscreen, and it's used
Speaker 1: as an ingredient kind of as sunscreen UV protected in
Speaker 1: other stuff like makeup and toothpaste. Right, so it is everywhere.
Speaker 1: The thing is is titanium dioxide. It's a naturally occurring thing.
Speaker 1: Like you said, titanium is natural, So titanium dioxide it's
Speaker 1: just what happens when titanium comes in contact with oxygen.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: The problem with it being used in the food industry
Speaker 1: and personal care industry is that it's used in a
Speaker 1: specific form as titanium dioxide nanoparticles, and we're talking like
Speaker 1: nano nanoparticles. They're the little tiny particles of titanium dioxide
Speaker 1: of appear in your food. Are about one hundred nanometers across.
Speaker 1: Your hair is eighty thousand nanometers across. And because they're
Speaker 1: so small, they can scatter light. Right, that's the appropriate
Speaker 1: response to that. They can scale. The smaller they are,
Speaker 1: the more effective they are at scattering lights. So that's
Speaker 1: why they want to use those really tiny nanoparticles. But
Speaker 1: the concern is because they're so small, it can go
Speaker 1: to all sorts of different parts of your body, and
Speaker 1: if it starts to accumulate, it can cause all sorts
Speaker 1: of problems. That's the basis of that lawsuit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they can get in the bloodstream. What I want
Speaker 2: to know is what does that stuff do for a skittle.
Speaker 1: I don't know, because it's not like Skittles is white?
Speaker 2: No white skittle?
Speaker 1: No, I think there actually is a white like special skittle,
Speaker 1: like a limited edition, but this is used in regular skills. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe it makes them reflective. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Okay, So we mentioned the nanoparticles. They can get the
Speaker 2: blood stream. You said they can accumulate. They can accumulate
Speaker 2: in your organs, which is pretty scary, especially, I mean
Speaker 2: any organ but especially when you're talking about when of
Speaker 2: your filtering mechanisms in your body, like your liver or
Speaker 2: your kidney. If you're trying to filter things and more
Speaker 2: bad things are going in, that's a problem.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So we should say specifically, there is no pure
Speaker 1: viewed evidence that nanoparticles of titanium dioxide migrate to your
Speaker 1: liver or your kidneys, or that they accumulate there. There's
Speaker 1: no evidence whatsoever, and that's what the Titanium Producers Association says.
Speaker 1: They like to point that out. The Titanium Dioxide Manufacturers
Speaker 1: Association website says there's nothing that says that food grade
Speaker 1: titanium dioxide is harmful to human health. Just want to
Speaker 1: put that out there everybody. That's what they say.
Speaker 2: But yees.
Speaker 1: So it makes sense to be skeptical because while we're
Speaker 1: talking about here are nothing but animal studies, almost exclusively
Speaker 1: mouse studies, and they do cause damage in mice for sure,
Speaker 1: and they have been shown to inflame tissues in humans
Speaker 1: when inhaled. You're not inhaling titanium dioxide nanoparticles when you
Speaker 1: eat skittles. But if you put everything together, yes, it's
Speaker 1: good to be skeptical, but it's also good to be
Speaker 1: aware of the concept of xenobiotics and their effect on
Speaker 1: the human body, as well as the corporate history of
Speaker 1: food manufacturers putting unsafe, harmful products in food long after
Speaker 1: we've figured out like, no, this is probably a problem.
Speaker 1: So it's it's good to use your brain. But also
Speaker 1: you know, no, like there's no like smoking gun here
Speaker 1: that says yes, titanium dioxide is going to wreck your
Speaker 1: liver and give you cancer. That's just not there yet,
Speaker 1: but it's it's possible enough that people are like, just
Speaker 1: get that out of there. Who cares how extra white
Speaker 1: you're You're well, you're not eating tide, but your your
Speaker 1: colgate is you.
Speaker 2: Just co o a, you did it both sides, co
Speaker 2: o A. That's amazing.
Speaker 1: That explains why I feel faint.
Speaker 2: All right, we'll take a break. I'm gonna give Josh
Speaker 2: some smelling salts and we'll be right back. As why
Speaker 2: why sk tough?
Speaker 1: You should know, definitely should know.
Speaker 2: I'm not childs of each.
Speaker 1: Ski.
Speaker 2: All right, So you're probably wondering, well, we have an FDA.
Speaker 2: What do they say about all this? Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're great.
Speaker 2: The FDA says that, uh, titanium dioxide is a food
Speaker 2: addits of the food. Great stuff doesn't exceed. If it
Speaker 2: doesn't exceed one percent of the food's weight, then it's
Speaker 2: all fine and dandy. However, there are companies and nations
Speaker 2: and continents that are getting rid of this stuff. In
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, Dunkin Donuts said, you know what, we're gonna
Speaker 2: use titanium dioxide anymore. Uh, and our powdered tuggar toppings.
Speaker 2: The EU, of course, they're always first in line saying
Speaker 2: we don't need that stuff. Let's just get rid of it,
Speaker 2: let's pan it.
Speaker 1: They are always a person in line saying that can
Speaker 1: harm people who we care about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, dang socialists, nanny state. So, uh, you mentioned
Speaker 2: that the Titanic, you know, big titanium dioxide is like, hey,
Speaker 2: you guys don't need to worry about this. It's in
Speaker 2: such small levels, it's not a big deal. And like,
Speaker 2: you know, you'd have to be a real small kid
Speaker 2: to really get the worst effect. Like, oh, I don't
Speaker 2: know kids who eat skitt holes.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's a big one. So the Environmental Working
Speaker 1: Group released a paper a little while ago that said
Speaker 1: that this stuff is in thousands of children's sweets, is
Speaker 1: an ingredient. And yeah, if you're small, if this stuff
Speaker 1: does accumulate at all, the smaller the body, the more
Speaker 1: impact that accumulation's probably going to have. And it has
Speaker 1: been shown to make it through the gut, like it
Speaker 1: does make it into the body beyond just your digestive system.
Speaker 1: But as the Titanium Dioxide Manufacturers Association points out, food
Speaker 1: grade titanium or yeah, food grade titanium dioxide called E
Speaker 1: one seven to one. Uh, it can't have more than
Speaker 1: four of titanium dioxide to it in the nanoparticles, I
Speaker 1: should say, and that I guess poison dot Org, which
Speaker 1: is the National Poison Control Center's website, said that.
Speaker 2: I thought that was the band's website. Is that not right?
Speaker 1: No, there's this poison. So the National Poison Control Center
Speaker 1: says that one tenth of one percent of the titanium
Speaker 1: dioxide that is in your food stuff, which is just
Speaker 1: one percent of the food by weight, So a very
Speaker 1: very tiny fraction passes through the gut and makes it
Speaker 1: into the rest of your body. So there's just just
Speaker 1: again two ways of looking at this. It does get
Speaker 1: out of your gut and into the rest of your body,
Speaker 1: where it may accumulate if you enough skittles or starbursts
Speaker 1: or something like that. But there's no studies yet that
Speaker 1: show that it actually causes any harm.
Speaker 2: My whole deal is like, just why just don't put
Speaker 2: it in there and no one will ever notice or care.
Speaker 1: Frankly, if don't Donuts can do without it for their
Speaker 1: powdered donuts, then you can do it for skittles, because
Speaker 1: there's I genuinely don't understand why it's in there. I
Speaker 1: saw one place where it's used as a flavor enhancer.
Speaker 1: Everyone else says it's a color enhancer, so maybe it
Speaker 1: has something to do with the flavor of skittles. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I also saw that if it is used
Speaker 1: as a flavor enhancer, it's mustard, and I don't remember
Speaker 1: any mustard flavored skittles.
Speaker 2: Gross.
Speaker 1: That could be pretty gross. It could also be great.
Speaker 1: I haven't decided yet, but yeah, I'm with you. I
Speaker 1: don't understand why it has to be in there anything, Like.
Speaker 2: I think it's one of those things where no consumer
Speaker 2: would notice. And of course I say that, and then
Speaker 2: a bag of skittles comes out like a like a solid,
Speaker 2: weird lump, like a pebbly brick, right with hair.
Speaker 1: Growing on it?
Speaker 2: Like, what the hell is this? Yeah, I mean I
Speaker 2: don't need skittles anyway. And Ruby didn't eat a lot
Speaker 2: of candy. Uh, it's weird.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've always like candy. I like fruit candy, I
Speaker 1: like chocolate candy. I do like skittles. I love star bursts.
Speaker 1: They have it in there too, So yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I'm probably riddled with with titanium dioxide.
Speaker 2: I think you'll be right.
Speaker 1: You got anything else?
Speaker 2: I got nothing else?
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, then we're done talking about titanium dioxide for now,
Speaker 1: and short stuff is out.
Speaker 2: You Know.
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