1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh, There's Chuck, Ben, 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 1: Dave gid Yo. 3 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 2: All right. So this is one that is a little 4 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 2: frustrating because I found over the years, I think we 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 2: both agree that it's so hard sometimes to find follow 6 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 2: ups to legal matters. Like there's a lot of hay 7 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 2: made when a lawsuit is put out put out there 8 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 2: or introduced or whatever, but then it's always so hard 9 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 2: to find resolution. And we're talking about the fact that 10 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 2: in July twenty twenty two, a man in California filed 11 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 2: a lawsuit against Mars Incorporated because of skittles, and because 12 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 2: specifically an additive called titanium dioxide class action lawsuit that 13 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 2: has health risks. And I tried to find a follow 14 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 2: up and what I saw that that was dismissed. 15 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: Oh was it? I didn't see that. 16 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 2: In November twenty two without prejudice, and that which means 17 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 2: a new lawsuit can happen. And another woman in summer 18 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 2: last year, in twenty twenty three, like a year later 19 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 2: again in California, has sued again, and I don't know 20 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 2: the status of that one. 21 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: The reason they're picking on skittles in particular, it seems 22 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: like is because back in twenty sixteen, Skittle said to 23 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: the world, while I should say, Mars Zinc said to 24 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: the world, Hey, we're not going to use titanium dioxide anymore. 25 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 1: We're going to phase it out of our candies, specifically Skittles. 26 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: And here we are in twenty twenty four and Skittles 27 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: still has titanium dioxide. In fact, the candy makers or 28 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: food producers who use titanium dioxide in their products aren't 29 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: even required to list it as titanium dioxide. It's listed 30 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: as titanium dioxide, which I take to be a giant 31 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: f you to all the people who filed lawsuits against 32 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: Mars for that. 33 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 2: What I don't get is why they would make some 34 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 2: big announcement about getting it out of their candy and 35 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 2: then keeping it there. 36 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: I don't know, but I'll bet the CEO that was 37 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: in charge during that period is no longer there. 38 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: I bet you're right. 39 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: They were like, uh, we have bad news, like we 40 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 1: can't make Skittles without titanium dioxide. 41 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 2: And he said, what, so should we talk about titanium dioxide? Yes, 42 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: all right. Titanium is an element in the Earth's crust. 43 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 2: It is naturally occurring thing. Not anything unusual about titanium. 44 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 2: But when it reacts interacts with oxygen, rather, it forms 45 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 2: a white powder, a very fine white powder called titanium 46 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 2: dioxide that evidently is used as a whitening agent. Yes, 47 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 2: and a lot of processed foods. Not this is not 48 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 2: we're using skittles because there was a lawsuit. But this 49 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 2: stuff's in a lot of stuff. 50 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: It is. And the reason it's a whitening agent is 51 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: because it reflects light so well, specifically all types of light. 52 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: So it appears white, but it reflects it so well. 53 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,839 Speaker 1: It's used as an ingredient in sunscreen, and it's used 54 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: as an ingredient kind of as sunscreen UV protected in 55 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: other stuff like makeup and toothpaste. Right, so it is everywhere. 56 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: The thing is is titanium dioxide. It's a naturally occurring thing. 57 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: Like you said, titanium is natural, So titanium dioxide it's 58 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: just what happens when titanium comes in contact with oxygen. 59 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 2: Right. 60 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: The problem with it being used in the food industry 61 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: and personal care industry is that it's used in a 62 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: specific form as titanium dioxide nanoparticles, and we're talking like 63 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: nano nanoparticles. They're the little tiny particles of titanium dioxide 64 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: of appear in your food. Are about one hundred nanometers across. 65 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: Your hair is eighty thousand nanometers across. And because they're 66 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: so small, they can scatter light. Right, that's the appropriate 67 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: response to that. They can scale. The smaller they are, 68 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: the more effective they are at scattering lights. So that's 69 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: why they want to use those really tiny nanoparticles. But 70 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: the concern is because they're so small, it can go 71 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: to all sorts of different parts of your body, and 72 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: if it starts to accumulate, it can cause all sorts 73 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: of problems. That's the basis of that lawsuit. 74 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, they can get in the bloodstream. What I want 75 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 2: to know is what does that stuff do for a skittle. 76 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: I don't know, because it's not like Skittles is white? 77 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 2: No white skittle? 78 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: No, I think there actually is a white like special skittle, 79 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: like a limited edition, but this is used in regular skills. Yeah, 80 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 1: maybe it makes them reflective. I don't know. 81 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 2: Okay, So we mentioned the nanoparticles. They can get the 82 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 2: blood stream. You said they can accumulate. They can accumulate 83 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 2: in your organs, which is pretty scary, especially, I mean 84 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 2: any organ but especially when you're talking about when of 85 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 2: your filtering mechanisms in your body, like your liver or 86 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 2: your kidney. If you're trying to filter things and more 87 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 2: bad things are going in, that's a problem. 88 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, So we should say specifically, there is no pure 89 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: viewed evidence that nanoparticles of titanium dioxide migrate to your 90 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: liver or your kidneys, or that they accumulate there. There's 91 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: no evidence whatsoever, and that's what the Titanium Producers Association says. 92 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: They like to point that out. The Titanium Dioxide Manufacturers 93 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,679 Speaker 1: Association website says there's nothing that says that food grade 94 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: titanium dioxide is harmful to human health. Just want to 95 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: put that out there everybody. That's what they say. 96 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 2: But yees. 97 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: So it makes sense to be skeptical because while we're 98 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: talking about here are nothing but animal studies, almost exclusively 99 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 1: mouse studies, and they do cause damage in mice for sure, 100 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: and they have been shown to inflame tissues in humans 101 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: when inhaled. You're not inhaling titanium dioxide nanoparticles when you 102 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: eat skittles. But if you put everything together, yes, it's 103 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: good to be skeptical, but it's also good to be 104 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: aware of the concept of xenobiotics and their effect on 105 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: the human body, as well as the corporate history of 106 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:08,559 Speaker 1: food manufacturers putting unsafe, harmful products in food long after 107 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: we've figured out like, no, this is probably a problem. 108 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: So it's it's good to use your brain. But also 109 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: you know, no, like there's no like smoking gun here 110 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: that says yes, titanium dioxide is going to wreck your 111 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: liver and give you cancer. That's just not there yet, 112 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: but it's it's possible enough that people are like, just 113 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: get that out of there. Who cares how extra white 114 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: you're You're well, you're not eating tide, but your your 115 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: colgate is you. 116 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 2: Just co o a, you did it both sides, co 117 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 2: o A. That's amazing. 118 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: That explains why I feel faint. 119 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,679 Speaker 2: All right, we'll take a break. I'm gonna give Josh 120 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 2: some smelling salts and we'll be right back. As why 121 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 2: why sk tough? 122 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: You should know, definitely should know. 123 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 2: I'm not childs of each. 124 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: Ski. 125 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 2: All right, So you're probably wondering, well, we have an FDA. 126 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 2: What do they say about all this? Oh? 127 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're great. 128 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 2: The FDA says that, uh, titanium dioxide is a food 129 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 2: addits of the food. Great stuff doesn't exceed. If it 130 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 2: doesn't exceed one percent of the food's weight, then it's 131 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 2: all fine and dandy. However, there are companies and nations 132 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 2: and continents that are getting rid of this stuff. In 133 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, Dunkin Donuts said, you know what, we're gonna 134 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 2: use titanium dioxide anymore. Uh, and our powdered tuggar toppings. 135 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 2: The EU, of course, they're always first in line saying 136 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 2: we don't need that stuff. Let's just get rid of it, 137 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 2: let's pan it. 138 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: They are always a person in line saying that can 139 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: harm people who we care about. 140 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, dang socialists, nanny state. So, uh, you mentioned 141 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 2: that the Titanic, you know, big titanium dioxide is like, hey, 142 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 2: you guys don't need to worry about this. It's in 143 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 2: such small levels, it's not a big deal. And like, 144 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 2: you know, you'd have to be a real small kid 145 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 2: to really get the worst effect. Like, oh, I don't 146 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 2: know kids who eat skitt holes. 147 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's a big one. So the Environmental Working 148 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: Group released a paper a little while ago that said 149 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: that this stuff is in thousands of children's sweets, is 150 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: an ingredient. And yeah, if you're small, if this stuff 151 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: does accumulate at all, the smaller the body, the more 152 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: impact that accumulation's probably going to have. And it has 153 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: been shown to make it through the gut, like it 154 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: does make it into the body beyond just your digestive system. 155 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: But as the Titanium Dioxide Manufacturers Association points out, food 156 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: grade titanium or yeah, food grade titanium dioxide called E 157 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: one seven to one. Uh, it can't have more than 158 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: four of titanium dioxide to it in the nanoparticles, I 159 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: should say, and that I guess poison dot Org, which 160 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: is the National Poison Control Center's website, said that. 161 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 2: I thought that was the band's website. Is that not right? 162 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: No, there's this poison. So the National Poison Control Center 163 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,559 Speaker 1: says that one tenth of one percent of the titanium 164 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: dioxide that is in your food stuff, which is just 165 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: one percent of the food by weight, So a very 166 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: very tiny fraction passes through the gut and makes it 167 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: into the rest of your body. So there's just just 168 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: again two ways of looking at this. It does get 169 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: out of your gut and into the rest of your body, 170 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 1: where it may accumulate if you enough skittles or starbursts 171 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: or something like that. But there's no studies yet that 172 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: show that it actually causes any harm. 173 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 2: My whole deal is like, just why just don't put 174 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 2: it in there and no one will ever notice or care. 175 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: Frankly, if don't Donuts can do without it for their 176 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: powdered donuts, then you can do it for skittles, because 177 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: there's I genuinely don't understand why it's in there. I 178 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 1: saw one place where it's used as a flavor enhancer. 179 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: Everyone else says it's a color enhancer, so maybe it 180 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: has something to do with the flavor of skittles. I 181 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: don't know. I also saw that if it is used 182 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: as a flavor enhancer, it's mustard, and I don't remember 183 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 1: any mustard flavored skittles. 184 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 2: Gross. 185 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: That could be pretty gross. It could also be great. 186 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: I haven't decided yet, but yeah, I'm with you. I 187 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 1: don't understand why it has to be in there anything, Like. 188 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 2: I think it's one of those things where no consumer 189 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 2: would notice. And of course I say that, and then 190 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 2: a bag of skittles comes out like a like a solid, 191 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 2: weird lump, like a pebbly brick, right with hair. 192 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: Growing on it? 193 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 2: Like, what the hell is this? Yeah, I mean I 194 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 2: don't need skittles anyway. And Ruby didn't eat a lot 195 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 2: of candy. Uh, it's weird. 196 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've always like candy. I like fruit candy, I 197 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: like chocolate candy. I do like skittles. I love star bursts. 198 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 1: They have it in there too, So yeah, I mean 199 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: I'm probably riddled with with titanium dioxide. 200 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 2: I think you'll be right. 201 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: You got anything else? 202 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 2: I got nothing else? 203 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: Okay, Well, then we're done talking about titanium dioxide for now, 204 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: and short stuff is out. 205 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 2: You Know. 206 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. 207 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 2: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 208 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.