1 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: From Mediators World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. This is 2 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: Cal's weekend review, presented by Steel. Steel products are available 3 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: only at authorized dealers. For more, go to Steel Dealers 4 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: dot com. Now here's your host, Ryan cal callahan. 5 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 2: All right, fulfill the engineer and everybody else. Our special 6 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 2: drop this week during our state legislative sessions is on MPAs, 7 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 2: yet another acronym you should know, marine Protected areas. In 8 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety nine, the California legislature passed the Marine Life 9 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 2: Protection Act. This law required the design of a network 10 00:00:52,600 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 2: of MPAs. Those MPAs were designed mind through a coalition 11 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 2: of interests conservation as, fisherman tribes, agency representatives, and I'm 12 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 2: paraphrasing here, but that's what we're talking about today, our 13 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 2: Marine protected areas. And our guest is Matt Bond. And Matt, 14 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 2: who why are you here? Who do you represent? 15 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 3: Ultimately? I represent in my mind, myself and my my family. 16 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 3: But there's a lot of people with with very common interests. 17 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 3: So I have been born in California, raised on the 18 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 3: ocean near Santa Barbara, and have been playing around on 19 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 3: the tide pools and catching little fish and learned how 20 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 3: to spearfish at eleven Roden real fish. So I've been 21 00:01:54,840 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 3: catching stuff in the ocean for my entire memory. In 22 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 3: my twenties, I got involved in that original Marine Life 23 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 3: Protection Act that you mentioned, and so I've got a 24 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 3: little experience in that, a couple of decades of experiencing that. 25 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 3: And so why I'm here is it's bubbled it's bubbled 26 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 3: back up and it affects not just I mean affects 27 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 3: our entire state. Anyone visiting the state that wants to 28 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,839 Speaker 3: wants to catch fish. So that's why I'm here. 29 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 2: So you're you're just You're just us, You're. 30 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 3: Just I'm I'm the common I'm the common man who 31 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 3: uh serendipitously was born in a town next to UCSB 32 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 3: where the center of that Marine Life Protection Act happened 33 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 3: to transpire. And I'm the common man that happened to 34 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 3: have a skill set with a little bit of public 35 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 3: speaking natural ability. And so I was asked to be 36 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 3: the what they call the consumptive diver, one of the 37 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 3: two representatives for the southern sorry, yeah, the northern area 38 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 3: of the Southern Management Area. And so during those meetings, 39 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 3: you did a great job, but we had as different 40 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 3: as people as you could possibly think of in terms 41 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 3: of what they want to do in the ocean and 42 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 3: their their idea of what conservation is. And we were 43 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 3: supposed to come to consensus on areas that should be 44 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 3: closed to some degree to fishing. And so yeah, I'm 45 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 3: the common man. 46 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 2: Is yeah, what what is a m p A? Like, Yeah, 47 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 2: it's kind of a blanket term because an boundary there 48 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 2: can be different levels of restriction or closure. 49 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 3: But if you can just give the m p A, 50 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 3: what is MPAD for marine protected area? And in that 51 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 3: in that legislation says we got to make some of 52 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 3: those and the idea was to protect marine life. Within 53 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 3: an MPa, there's three types. There's a state marine conservation 54 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 3: area and that is an area. It's the most complicated 55 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 3: one where actually, you know, let me start because it's 56 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 3: easier to start with the more specific, the most prescriptive 57 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 3: is what's called a state marine reserve. And reserve means 58 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 3: you can't take anything a commercial fisherman or a sport fisherman, 59 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 3: doesn't matter how you're doing it. It's left alone. Nothing 60 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 3: can be touched. That's one designation marine conservation or sorry, 61 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 3: marine reserve. The second one is a marine park, and 62 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 3: a marine park is only recreational or sport fishermen are 63 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 3: allowed to take stuff no commercial fishing, so you can't 64 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 3: catch fish or anything else in there and sell it. 65 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 3: And then the third one is where I started, but 66 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 3: now I'm back to and that's a state marine conservation area, 67 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 3: and that's the most wide spectrum, and no two are 68 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 3: really the same. They might allow for commercial fishing, they 69 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 3: might allow for sport fishing. They might only allow for 70 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 3: the take of finfish. They might only allow for the 71 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 3: take of fish finfish from somebody fishing from shore. There's 72 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 3: a couple that only allow for spearfishing. And the idea 73 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 3: there was to accommodate some human needs generally, but also 74 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 3: be more restrictive than they would be if it was 75 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 3: just one of those marine parks. So I hope that's 76 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 3: not too confusing. But that's three more acronyms to add 77 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 3: to your list of acronyms that you should know. 78 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 2: When these MPa is when the line started being drawn, 79 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 2: there was a pretty wide idea of what was going 80 00:05:56,120 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 2: to quote be conserved within those areas. It wasn't specifically 81 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 2: for one species of concern. 82 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 3: It was for habitat. So what we were doing is 83 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 3: and you know, I mentioned being near UCSB, and I'm 84 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 3: going to say this, there's a lot of great science 85 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 3: around all of this, right, so we'll get to that. 86 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 3: I think in this and we are talking about conservation. 87 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 3: They did a really good job of scoping different types 88 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 3: of habitats representative habitats on the California Coast marine estuaries 89 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 3: that interface with tidal zones, true eel grass areas with mudflats, 90 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 3: sandy bottom, rocky bottom with kelp forests, so on and 91 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 3: so forth. And so what these MPAs, all the three 92 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 3: types that we talked about attempted to do was preserve 93 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 3: representative habitat. And I would say some of the richest 94 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 3: available represented habitat. So those could really be areas if 95 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 3: they were shut off or restricted and fishing that would 96 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 3: would would benefit and then spill over and benefit the 97 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 3: areas that were still open. If that, If that makes sense, 98 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 3: We're trying to preserve the best of the best. So 99 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 3: it would be almost like nurseries or yeah, it's the 100 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 3: best way to think of think of it, and and 101 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 3: and have them have them. 102 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 2: Fixed things, okay, And and what was the scene like 103 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 2: at that point. Was it was there a lot of 104 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 2: pushback to ens at that point or was it? 105 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 3: Uh? 106 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: Obviously it went through, so it was workable to some degree. 107 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 3: But what it had to be worked Yeah, it had 108 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 3: to be workable because it was a law. It got 109 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 3: signed into law and and there was not there was 110 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 3: not public input before it became a law. It was 111 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 3: a law, and so when the public input process started, 112 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 3: it was a mandate. And so there was tremendous pushback. 113 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 3: You know, nobody, nobody wanted. People don't like change and 114 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 3: people and so it was tremendous pushback and something I 115 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 3: hope we avoid as we go through this process. This 116 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 3: time a lot of acrimony between the different groups. You know, 117 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 3: we would attack the commercial fishermen, the commercial fishermen would 118 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 3: attack us, people that wanted to see otters be healthy. 119 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 3: It was. It was a mess, and with a mandate 120 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 3: that we had to come to consensus, right with someone 121 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 3: that wants to shut down everything for their beliefs and 122 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 3: us for our book. So it was it was a 123 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 3: four year, forty million dollar process, stakeholder process where we 124 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 3: met in different conference rooms all up and down the 125 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 3: state and sat with UH one of those you know, 126 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 3: flip flip things of paper and markers and and built 127 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 3: these maps and negotiated with people behind the scenes, and 128 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 3: people screamed and shouted and all of that. And then 129 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 3: when it was finally okay, here's the maps, there was 130 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,079 Speaker 3: the typical lawsuits and everything else like that. So it 131 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 3: was it was a ar jewish. It's a stressful process, 132 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 3: but we built some some good stuff. I mean, what 133 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 3: what what's there? You know, I grew up where I 134 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 3: learned out of spearfish is in an area now that's 135 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 3: a no take marine reserve, and when I was a 136 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 3: young man, I fought it tooth and nail, and in retrospect, 137 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 3: I look at it now and what it's done in 138 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 3: the network of everything else, because there's plenty of open areas, 139 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 3: it's beautiful, it's full of stuff. There is some spillover 140 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 3: going on. So we did a lot of good work. 141 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 3: And I think no one gets exactly what they want 142 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,559 Speaker 3: in any negotiation, but I think we did a good 143 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 3: job of doing the best we could with that. 144 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 2: And you know, I get because like neither you nor 145 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 2: I are. 146 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 4: Biologists, what what is your sense is just just from 147 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 4: the user perspective of working not working. 148 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 2: YEA current state of MP as. 149 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 3: The perfect word that we'll hear a lot when we 150 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 3: run through the process of this. My anecdotal, my anecdotal take. 151 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 3: I've dove inside of the reserves, and this is also 152 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 3: I'm not a biologist, but I have I have the 153 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 3: sense to read some of those papers and they make sense. 154 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 3: The density of creatures critters inside of of the reserves 155 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 3: and the size of critters inside the reserves are both 156 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 3: definitely improved. There's there's bigger stuff inside of the reserves. 157 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 3: And let me be really clear, these are things that 158 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,199 Speaker 3: would be more sedentary, right, Tuna swimming in and out 159 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 3: or something like that aren't going to have much of 160 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 3: a change. But like a lobster or a California sheephead 161 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 3: or something like that, if you go inside of the reserves, 162 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 3: there's a lot more of them and they're bigger. And anecdotally, again, 163 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 3: I have seen certain fish species and it's important in science, 164 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 3: like what is it causation? And I think it's from 165 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 3: the reserves. It could be ocean regimes and things like that, 166 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 3: but like particularly California sheephead on the edges of some 167 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 3: of the ones that I'm in celt baths things like that. 168 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,839 Speaker 3: There's there's more and bigger ones outside. There's actually a 169 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 3: study at the Channel Islands in central Santa Barbar area 170 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 3: where lobster take on the edges of the reserves has improved. 171 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 3: So I think, you know, I think they're working for 172 00:11:55,600 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 3: inside there's some benefit. And there's another study where they 173 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 3: can see some larval drift coming out, which is pretty cool. 174 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,839 Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I think they're gonna they're they're gonna work. 175 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 2: And it's not on the habitat side. 176 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 3: So that's interesting, right, So on the on the on 177 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 3: the kelp thing, right, and that's a lot of what 178 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 3: we're dealing with when we get to the petitions we're 179 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 3: going to talk about in the state of things now, 180 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 3: and there's one that that talks about eograss. I don't 181 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 3: think again, I'm not a biologist, but I don't think 182 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 3: there's clear biology or sorry, a scientific study to say 183 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 3: that closing everything off has improved a help force, and 184 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 3: there's there's argument to say that in some possibility it 185 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 3: might be harming. There's one of the petitions right now 186 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 3: that it's concerned about lobster traps destroying surf grass beds 187 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 3: on the backside I think maybe the front side of 188 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 3: Anna Kapa Island, and it started happening about ten years 189 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 3: ago and just coincidentally that was when the reserves were 190 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 3: put on that sorry it is the front side. It 191 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 3: forced all the effort around to an area that wasn't 192 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 3: normally hit. Right, So they're dynamic systems. But particularly for 193 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 3: help forests, I think it's really hard to say that 194 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,839 Speaker 3: the marine reserves have had direct impact in preserving or 195 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 3: increasing the abundance and health of the kelp. 196 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a good anecdotal point to make. Whatever 197 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 2: type of recreation you do, if areas that were open 198 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 2: are now closed, it's going to put that pressure for pressure. 199 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:57,319 Speaker 3: This is critical in what we're dealing with. Now, there's 200 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 3: a to get a little scientific. There's a there's a 201 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 3: concept called source and sink dynamics. And so when I 202 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:09,319 Speaker 3: talked earlier and I used the word a nursery or 203 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 3: an abundant area, we want to call that a source. 204 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 3: And so I have a very biodiverse area, a lot 205 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 3: of nooks and crannies for fish to hide, ideal breeding 206 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 3: grounds and natural strong, strong populations there, right, And so 207 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 3: those are the areas that that a lot of those 208 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 3: areas we tried to preserve sink areas aren't bad areas, 209 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 3: but they're not as abundant, and they're not breeding areas 210 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 3: and are probably more susceptible for fish populations in those 211 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 3: areas if you concentrate effort uh to be depleted. And 212 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 3: so it's really important in situating marine protected areas, all 213 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 3: three types figuring out where am I putting this thing? 214 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 3: Is it a source or is it a sane and 215 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 3: when I when I close an area and my concentrating 216 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 3: more effort on an area, that can take it right. 217 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 3: And that's kind of what what we're dealing with now. 218 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 3: There's just a concern, there's a push to change some 219 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 3: of these things, and we we need the critters to 220 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 3: be there for us to continue to do what we're doing. 221 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 3: We need to contact the critters, they need to they 222 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 3: need to expand, and the fishing effort isn't going to 223 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 3: get less. People aren't just going to give up, particularly 224 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 3: in the ocean. We're going to concentrate more and more 225 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 3: people probably on less resilient areas. 226 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 2: And you know, I'm like a little baby spear fishermen myself. Uh, 227 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 2: you meet eater. 228 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 3: Guys got after it. Boy, I mean that was a 229 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 3: quick learning curve. I saw Greg got you guys out, 230 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 3: and all of a sudden we see yellow tail and stuff. 231 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 3: That took me a decade. So good for you. 232 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 2: Oh uh, But that opportunity to swim through the Celt 233 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 2: for us, Yeah, particularly like on a sunny day and 234 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 2: looking at the rays of light coming through that Celt 235 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:16,479 Speaker 2: forest is something that if you don't have an appreciation 236 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 2: for the ocean, you will have one by the time 237 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 2: you swim out of that thing. Like it is. It's 238 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 2: an unbelievable experience that uh, you know you want people 239 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 2: to have. 240 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 3: Man, depending on whatever you believe it is, it is. Uh, 241 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 3: there's nothing I've done a lot of things, and there 242 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 3: really is nothing like a clear day in a cult forest. 243 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 3: It's good. 244 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 5: Well put Yeah, So you know, it sounds like with 245 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 5: the exception of people having to adjust to this change, 246 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 5: these mp as have some some benefits. 247 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 2: So right now there's uh as part of the mp 248 00:16:55,200 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 2: A plan, there's several petitions propose to add MPAs or 249 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 2: expand MPAs. What what's the current state of the MPa California. 250 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 3: That's a great question. I think kind of the crux 251 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 3: of the while we're here. So that nineteen ninety nine 252 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 3: law mandated that after these things were put in place, 253 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 3: there'd be a decade o review and they'll continue to 254 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 3: be meaning every ten years, let's see how they're doing, 255 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 3: what's going on with science, let's let's let's let's go 256 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 3: through and so some of those studies I just talked 257 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 3: about are mentioned in that Decado review. The Decado Review 258 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 3: then also said, let's make a process again, a stakeholder 259 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 3: process to talk about adaptive management. So based on what's 260 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 3: going on in this review, we did, and that's the 261 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 3: Fishing Game Commission and the biologists scientists there, let's let 262 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 3: people say, hey, let's let's look at how these things 263 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 3: are doing. That opened up the opportunity to peep, for 264 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 3: people to petition the Fishing Game Commission to make changes. 265 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 3: And so what we're dealing with now is I think 266 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 3: it started at eighty and there's like twenty that I'm 267 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 3: acutely aware of that ask there's three that are asking 268 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 3: for like a little more access, but there's like seventeen 269 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 3: that are either like simplifying rules or effectively asking to 270 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 3: turn the ones like state marine parks and state marine 271 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 3: conservation areas to turn those into reserves, meaning no fishing 272 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 3: at all, and either additional petitions or in those same 273 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 3: ones that are asking for those designation changes, asking to 274 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 3: expand boundaries we currently have. I think almost it's like 275 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 3: sixteen or seventeen percent of the California coastline was placed 276 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 3: in one of those three designations. Those reserves went into 277 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 3: place in twenty and twelve. I think it's about nine 278 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:03,239 Speaker 3: percent that's in and no take marine reserve. And like 279 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 3: you said, people got used to those and it wasn't 280 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 3: the end of the world. We lost some spots we 281 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 3: like to go to. But I think you can see 282 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 3: in a fishing effort and catches and things, things that 283 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 3: have stayed the same. A lot of stuff has improved. 284 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 3: Some things have not done so well, but it's been well. 285 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 3: The current status is asking there's a vocal, organized group 286 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:28,919 Speaker 3: that is asking for significantly more lots of access for 287 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 3: people like us to be able to harvest from the ocean. 288 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 2: There's a an effort asking for more restrictions, and then 289 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 2: there's an effort that's asking to ease up on some restrictions. 290 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's there's three petitions that are worth looking at. 291 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 3: One is asking for take of what's called the highly 292 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 3: migratory species. So if you think of like sword fishing, 293 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 3: tuna and some of the sharks and things like that, 294 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,360 Speaker 3: that may not benefit they don't stay put. So how 295 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 3: are they benefiting an area that's closed off. There's a 296 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 3: gentleman that that asked for some of the areas on 297 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 3: the Channel Islands in particular to allow some fishing for that. 298 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 3: Commercial urchin fishermen are petitioning to be able to catch 299 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 3: sea urchins in some of the reserves, and se urchins 300 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 3: are eating kelp. So that's that's one. The third one 301 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 3: I don't I don't quite remember what it was asking for, 302 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 3: but there was three that were beneficial and and really 303 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,679 Speaker 3: the bulk of the rest were asking for for less 304 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 3: access or no access and and uh to expand the 305 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 3: ears where we can't fish. 306 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 2: And what is the basis for I think everybody listening 307 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:00,239 Speaker 2: can really understand the ask for more access. Yeah, so 308 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 2: what what's the basis for the petitions to get tighter 309 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 2: on restrictions? 310 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, I hear you. So, so there there's I think 311 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 3: Devin highlighted yesterday. I think there's fourteen hundred pages of rationale, 312 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 3: and so if it's okay, I am. I shouldn't say ignorant, 313 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,719 Speaker 3: but I can speak with high confidence of rationale between 314 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 3: a couple of the most impactful and I think that'll 315 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 3: that'll give the listeners here a good idea. There's there's one, Yeah, 316 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 3: there's there's one petition. It's uh, if you look on 317 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 3: the Commission's website, it's it's twenty twenty three dash thirty 318 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 3: three MPa. And there's another one that is twenty twenty 319 00:21:52,560 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 3: three dash twenty three MPa. Those two, in particular, asks 320 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 3: for complete closure of basically all of Santa Cruz Big 321 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 3: areas on the Central Coast, Pacific, Grove Carmel Big Area 322 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 3: in Malibu, all of Point Loma down in San Diego, 323 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 3: twenty six miles on the backside of Santa Rosa Island, 324 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 3: bought five miles on the three miles on the backside 325 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 3: of Santa Cruz Island. And I'm missing some areas, but 326 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 3: as you can, I mean, those two tremendously impactful for 327 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 3: the entire fishing community. The one in Santa Cruz is 328 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 3: how I got involved. I don't even fish over there, 329 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 3: but I'm very well networked with those people, and they 330 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 3: want to put a marine reserve no Take in front 331 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:48,919 Speaker 3: of the city of Santa Cruz, which is one of 332 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 3: the older fishing communities. The whole thing's built around it. 333 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 3: Were some of the most impoverished people on the coast 334 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,439 Speaker 3: to go do subsistence fishing, their fishing, hooking line and 335 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,719 Speaker 3: catching rock fish and eating them. And this thing proposes 336 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 3: to close all that. And so to your question, the 337 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 3: rationale is help is suffering. And I think anyone that 338 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 3: looks at any of the marine ecology stuff for California 339 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 3: wouldn't agree, wouldn't disagree. We're in a in a bad 340 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 3: place with our help force. They're they're diminished. We've had 341 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 3: a lot of warm water years. We've had weird bacterial 342 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 3: or viral things pop up, maybe from the warm water 343 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 3: that killed the giant seastar that eats a lot of 344 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 3: the sea urchins that that feed on kelp. Well, the 345 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 3: sea stars died off and the sea urchins periferated and 346 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 3: are killing kelp, and so the kelp's not in a 347 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 3: good spot. The premise behind these petitions is that we 348 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 3: don't know what's going to happen in the future. And 349 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 3: because we don't know what's going to happen in the future. 350 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 3: We have to take a precautionary principle, meaning anything could 351 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 3: happen that might affect help. We don't know what the 352 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 3: next sunflower sea star is going to be, so we 353 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 3: better close it all down and add no more stressors. 354 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 3: And the stressor I'm talking about is anybody catching any 355 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 3: fish whatsoever. And that's the rationale. And to just editorialize 356 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 3: a little bit. The science has to be there for 357 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 3: these things. We talked about that before, and we talked 358 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 3: about displacement and all the time we went through and 359 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 3: the science around MPAs isn't bad science. People always go, oh, 360 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 3: it's bad science. It's bad science. It's not bad science. 361 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 3: You have ethical people that did years and years and 362 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 3: years of research to come up with some conclusions. Taking 363 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 3: the science and extrapolating it and applying it for something 364 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 3: completely unrelated is problematic. And that's what's going on now. 365 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 3: Nobody can draw a correlation that you or me swimming 366 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 3: through a kelp forest sparing a yellow tail at you know, 367 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 3: the Goal Island area where we're allowed to on the 368 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:12,199 Speaker 3: backside of Santa Cruz, is having any detrimental effect whatsoever. 369 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 3: On kelp and I would argue closing more areas and 370 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 3: concentrating the mediater guys and me and everybody else in 371 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 3: smaller and smaller, less dynamic areas, and we're dropping our 372 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 3: anchors and doing everything else. Whatever we're doing may have 373 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 3: more impact on on on re establishing help force and 374 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 3: things like that. But again, I don't know. I don't 375 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 3: have science to back up my opinion. I just gave 376 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 3: my editorial. I just gave and so we we can't 377 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 3: make big changes without being concretely informed with data. So 378 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 3: that's that's what's going on. 379 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, the angling hunting community is you know, 380 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 2: known for being conservative and hardheaded, but history has shown 381 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 2: that if it's for the good of the resource, we're 382 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 2: pretty darn flexible. But you got to show that it's 383 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 2: for the good of the resource, not just a way 384 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 2: to diminish our ability to go recreate. 385 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,959 Speaker 3: It's going on right, I mean with the Avaloni fishery 386 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 3: up here that's been shut since twenty eighteen, and a 387 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 3: good friend, Dennis Hassel, that was on that that council. 388 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 3: It was glaringly apparent that there was a problem and 389 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 3: we never want to give up rights to stuff, but 390 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 3: we needed to do something. It's happening right now with sturgeon. Right. 391 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 3: There's you can argue when there's hardheaded people that are 392 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 3: you know, whatever, but the vast majority of us want 393 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 3: to see these things last forever and grow, and sometimes 394 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 3: you've got to stop stuff to that point. California fisheries 395 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 3: are some of the most regulated fisheries in the world 396 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 3: outside of marine reserves, which is one tool that we 397 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 3: have for fisheries management. It's a good tool. We talked 398 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 3: about some of the benefits from it. We have season closures, 399 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 3: we have depth closures, we have species closures, we have quotas, 400 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 3: we have license, we have fifteen twenty thirty other levers 401 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 3: we can pull if you see a problem in individual species. Right. 402 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 3: We also have Restorate of restorative things we can try 403 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,439 Speaker 3: to do with kelp and other things like that. So 404 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 3: to take and I'm stealing one of the Commissioner's words 405 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 3: she used in public forum, but like to use the 406 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 3: blunt tool of close it all down. It's not management. 407 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 3: That's closure, and that's not the mandate of the Department 408 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 3: of Fishing, Game or the commission The mandate there is 409 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 3: to manage the resource for sustainable harvest, and there's a 410 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 3: lot of tools to do that, and if we just 411 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,479 Speaker 3: keep relying on closing everything down, we're going to end 412 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 3: up with something that doesn't look like it's supposed to. 413 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 2: It's interesting to me that that you brought up the 414 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 2: fact that there's some people subsistence fishing in the Santa 415 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 2: Cruz area, impoverished communities that that rely on on the 416 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 2: fishery as a resource. When you rattled off the areas 417 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 2: that would be impacted, should should these new regulations go 418 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 2: through or no? You know, new expansions to the mp 419 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 2: as as Montana kid, I'm like, oh, Point Loma, Malibu. Uh, 420 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 2: I'm like, those are fancy areas. 421 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 3: That's right. So but let me let me help you 422 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 3: with that a little bit. I grew up in Santa Barbara, right, 423 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 3: what are the the you know, the the Prince and 424 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 3: Princess moved there from England. Man so Uh. 425 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 2: I grew up sockery. 426 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 3: I grew up La super Ica. You know, lots Suprika 427 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 3: handmade tortillez. Anyway, we're on a tangent. I grew up 428 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 3: in a one bedroom apartment with a single mom and 429 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 3: two sisters. Government assistants were on food stamps, and I 430 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 3: fed a quarter of our protein when I was a 431 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 3: teenager was stuff that I pulled out of the ocean, 432 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 3: and they shut that all down. That was my argument 433 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 3: and a big reason to get on. There was no bus. 434 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 3: We didn't have a car man, so there was no 435 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 3: bus for me to go north to where you could 436 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 3: go and then south. I had to ride my bike 437 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 3: three or four miles to get down there to catch anything, 438 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 3: so I could not walk. Luckily, I was older when 439 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 3: this happened. But if this would have happened when I 440 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 3: was twelve, thirteen, fourteen years old, when my family was 441 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 3: not having the best time financially, we wouldn't have starved, 442 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 3: but we it would have significantly impacted our ability to 443 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 3: not only eat, but then like if I caught I 444 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 3: used to just go shoot a freakin' angel shark man. 445 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 3: We'd have thirty pounds of good food to eat, and 446 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 3: I would feed all my neighbors and stuff like that. 447 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 3: That allowed my mom. Now there's ten more bucks that 448 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 3: I don't have to go buy chicken and stuff. With that, 449 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 3: she could buy us clothes. People don't think about that, 450 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 3: and people look at the California coast as a very 451 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 3: the whole thing. I mean, Capitola and Santa Cruz, the 452 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 3: same thing. Those houses are four million dollars. Who's cleaning 453 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 3: those houses? Right? Who's who's those people live there and 454 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 3: they don't live live in luxury. And the ability to 455 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 3: feed themselves, and another thing people don't think about the 456 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 3: ability to walk, to recreate, and recreation that's why it's 457 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:53,479 Speaker 3: called recreational fishing absolutely includes the ability to harvest. And 458 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 3: I didn't have much else to do when I was 459 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 3: a kid. I would get on my bike and ride 460 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 3: down to the beach, We go to the pier, go 461 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 3: play in the tide pools. There wasn't a mall, there 462 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 3: wasn't movies we could afford. There wasn't stuff like that. 463 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 3: And that's still a big part, even in La Joya, 464 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 3: even in Malibu, all those places. If you spent any 465 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 3: time in California, socio economics of California look like a 466 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 3: lot of you know, feudal Europe did in the seventeen hundreds. 467 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 3: There's big houses up on the hills and there's people. 468 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 6: Living down in the flatlands, and a lot of those 469 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 6: people down in the flatlands are to some degree recreating 470 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 6: and feeding themselves from the beautiful bounty that we have 471 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 6: in California. 472 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 2: So it sounds like this is something that a lot 473 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 2: of people should be paying attention to. What type of 474 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 2: stakeholders are involved in this process right now? 475 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean you and I have a relationship through 476 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 3: backcountry hunters and Anglers. When I first started doing this, 477 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,719 Speaker 3: there was lots of different groups that were involved. For selfishly, 478 00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 3: my side of the story, everything that I just talked 479 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 3: to up from my perspective, there's not a lot anymore. 480 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 3: And so I really i've I've what would you call it, Uh, 481 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 3: I've thrown my my name in the hat of two organizations. 482 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 3: It's it's backcountry Hunters and Anglers. You guys have full 483 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 3: time lobbyists. You're organized, you're in touch with all of 484 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 3: the different governmental bodies that are making these decisions and 485 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 3: push out on a regular basis kind of here's what 486 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 3: to do, here's what's going on, here's how to get 487 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 3: a letter in. Uh. The second one is one that 488 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 3: we've recently just created. And I shouldn't say I created it, 489 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 3: but I was asked to be part of is all 490 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 3: waters dot org and it's that on all its social 491 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 3: not even a bona fide five oh one C three yet. 492 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 3: But what we are is some very passionate open ocean 493 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 3: people that have been at it for a long time 494 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 3: and some really talented web marketer type people. And we've 495 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 3: really got a groundswell going to try to get this 496 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 3: word out. That's how I got on on on this 497 00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 3: very popular podcast today, trying to represent this whole ocean lifestyle. 498 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 3: For Mike. I got an eighteen year old kid who's 499 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 3: great at this, Chris, my partner at All Waters. I 500 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 3: think his son's eleven. We want this to be there, right, 501 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 3: And so those are the two that I'm dealing with. 502 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 3: You can hit us up on all waters dot org 503 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 3: on all the social stuff and a lot of what 504 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 3: I'm going to drive back in terms of donations and 505 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 3: things like that and representation at meetings and letter generators 506 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 3: and stuff is back to backcountry hunters and Anglers. So 507 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 3: those are to simplify things. You can get a lot 508 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 3: done with that. There's meetings coming up and all that, 509 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 3: and without bogging down your memory in this verbal podcast, 510 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 3: I think if you hit up Backcountry Hunters and Anglers California, 511 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 3: or you hit up all Waters dot org, we've done 512 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 3: a pretty good job of putting little succinct blurbs there 513 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 3: of kind of what to do. So I think that's 514 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 3: the way to get involved. If you hear this podcast 515 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 3: and you've got folks that you think would be interested, 516 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,120 Speaker 3: and it doesn't just have to be ocean people. This 517 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 3: is our right as Californians. It's a right as Americans. 518 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 3: If you think about as many people that come out 519 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 3: to California coast and want to enjoy that and go 520 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 3: fishing and stuff like that. This is for everybody. So 521 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 3: the more we can share this and get the word 522 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 3: out and organize build coalitions instead of tearing ourselves down 523 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 3: inside of these different user groups in terms of commercial 524 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 3: and sport, just people that want access to the ocean, 525 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 3: let's work together. I think that's the approach. 526 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, you can can agree with you more there, Matt, 527 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 2: that it's a diverse and broad group that tends to 528 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 2: get things done, especially these days. So you need to 529 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 2: build that coalition. And when you're looking at proposed restrictions 530 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:52,320 Speaker 2: to a resource that aren't built on strong scientific foundation, 531 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 2: they're built on what people feel and would prefer to see. 532 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 2: That is something that everyone needs to pay attention to. 533 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 2: Because if we let that dictate our access to the ocean, 534 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 2: it's very very easy. 535 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:17,719 Speaker 3: To have. 536 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 2: That same well meaning and scientifically backed groups say well, 537 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 2: you know what, we don't like surfing either, and that 538 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 2: could have something. 539 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 3: Let me add one more twist on what you're saying, 540 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,799 Speaker 3: and it complicates things, But I think it's a good 541 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 3: complication that I think groups like yours and mine will 542 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,919 Speaker 3: work on together. We also have thirty by thirty, which 543 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 3: is a which is a deal that I like because 544 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 3: it finally addresses land, fresh water, estuaries, the ocean all 545 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 3: in one system and access and protecting domestic food supply 546 00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 3: and all of that. But the same players that were 547 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 3: talking about now, who you so eloquently said want things 548 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 3: to be away as opposed to have analyzed and said 549 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 3: this is the way they should be based on science, 550 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 3: those same players are going to be constituents in that 551 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 3: next process, and we're going to be constituents in that 552 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 3: next process. This is a more focused process on the ocean. 553 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 3: But the more we can use this process as what 554 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:28,880 Speaker 3: is it disparate user groups that have some common interests, hunters, fishermen, kimber, 555 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 3: everyone that wants to be part of the outdoors and 556 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 3: see it grow forever and still have access. I think 557 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 3: this is a great little run. Despite the maybe negative 558 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 3: backdrop of why you and me are talking today, potentially negative, 559 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 3: I think it's a great opportunity for all of us 560 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 3: to meet each other and really be prepared to make 561 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,239 Speaker 3: some positive changes because I think thirty by thirty really 562 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:57,280 Speaker 3: gives us some access points to change things, to embrace 563 00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 3: the way we live, our lives a little bit better 564 00:36:59,160 --> 00:36:59,839 Speaker 3: than they are now. 565 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 2: You know that's that's a good point. And uh kind 566 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 2: of double down, like if you're not involved, you will be. 567 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 2: You just may not know it. 568 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:18,920 Speaker 3: So you're always You're always say this, you're always involved 569 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 3: in the result. 570 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 2: That's right. 571 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,720 Speaker 3: You're always involved in the result. 572 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 2: If you're not at the table, you're on the menu. 573 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:29,879 Speaker 3: That's exactly right. 574 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you very much, MATP. So this last 575 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 2: thing is our timeline, Like are these changes, uh, these 576 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 2: proposed changes, are they baked? Are they going to go through? 577 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 2: What's what's the timeline and the process that we have 578 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 2: left here? 579 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 3: Very great question. Uh the timeline, I'll start with the end. 580 00:37:58,040 --> 00:37:59,879 Speaker 3: It's gonna be a long time for some of them. 581 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 3: When I mean a long time it could be a 582 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 3: multi year process, and that's why getting organized involved is important. 583 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 3: A specific answer to your question, on the nineteenth, there's 584 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:17,840 Speaker 3: a Fishing Game Commission Marine Resource Committee meeting and on 585 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 3: BHA California, as well as all waters there's information on 586 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 3: how to zoom into that. It's in San Clementy, California, 587 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 3: nine am on the nineteenth. An item number six I 588 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 3: believe is the Commission is going to make recommendations of 589 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 3: how the process should go to review these petitions. They 590 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 3: then kick it down to the Department of Fishing Game, 591 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 3: which runs that process. Our opportunity is to interject how 592 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 3: we think, as important user group, how we think the 593 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,760 Speaker 3: process should go. And so we're trying to organize people 594 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 3: to show up to that meeting. Be polite and eloquent 595 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,839 Speaker 3: and respectful of every everyone else, but let them know 596 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 3: that you've got to vested interest in seeing a fair 597 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,920 Speaker 3: and science backed process to address these things. So then 598 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 3: once that happens, the Department of Fishing Game will come 599 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 3: up with a process. We don't know what that looks like, 600 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 3: but I would suspect it has more public input, physical impact, 601 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 3: scientific impact, things like that. What you call it, how 602 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 3: it affects different Like we're talking about impoverished people and 603 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:41,760 Speaker 3: things like that. They have to give this stuck some thought. 604 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 3: Obviously that could take a really long time when we're 605 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:51,200 Speaker 3: talking about twenty thirty, forty whatever of these petitions. Then 606 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,839 Speaker 3: the Department of Fishing Game goes through that process, they 607 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,400 Speaker 3: come to a recommendation, They kick that recommendation back up 608 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,000 Speaker 3: to the Fishing Game Commission, and the Fishing Game Commission 609 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 3: boats on the recommendation do we do it or not? 610 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,399 Speaker 3: Or do we modify it? Right? So I just said 611 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 3: a lot of stuff. If you want to assign two 612 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,279 Speaker 3: months to everything I said, it puts us about two 613 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 3: or three years. Happened. Uh, And that's why we got 614 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 3: to get involved and we got to try to try 615 00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 3: to steer this process because it's it's it. The people 616 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 3: who are asking for these petitions are very organized. They're 617 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:33,320 Speaker 3: very organized. They've got groups like calperg having college kids 618 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 3: go to Uh. This is this is true. We had 619 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 3: a guy talk about it on b h A last night. 620 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:42,360 Speaker 3: Go to urban areas of Los Angeles, knock on doors 621 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 3: and with stacks of petitions and have people who may 622 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 3: never see the ocean sign petitions to close fishing down. 623 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,239 Speaker 3: That's what we're up against, and so I don't we're 624 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 3: not going to do that. But what we're going to 625 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,360 Speaker 3: do is tell the good story. We're gonna we're gonna 626 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 3: work with the biologists to get good science to support 627 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 3: a position that protects and grows the resource and allows 628 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,680 Speaker 3: us to continue to harvest and get a lot of 629 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 3: people on the same page and implore our public, either 630 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:16,680 Speaker 3: elected or appointed officials, to do the best thing. That's 631 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:17,360 Speaker 3: what we're gonna do. 632 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 2: That's great. Yeah, everybody's running out of excuses to not 633 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 2: be involved, all right. 634 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 3: Yeah. 635 00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:29,319 Speaker 2: I want to point out one fun fact here too, 636 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:33,960 Speaker 2: is there may be folks listening or folks that you 637 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,879 Speaker 2: know that say, well, there's a lot of areas set 638 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 2: aside specifically for fishing, like fishing peers, for example. That's 639 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:48,120 Speaker 2: the whole reason that they're there. What's interesting and a 640 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,399 Speaker 2: lot of folks don't know is if you're fishing from 641 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:56,600 Speaker 2: a pier in California, a fishing license is not required. 642 00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:01,040 Speaker 2: It's it's free. And when we're talking about these closures, 643 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 2: what we're talking about is shutting down the fishing that 644 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:09,279 Speaker 2: people are buying into the purchase of their uh state 645 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:16,360 Speaker 2: fishing license. Correct, So you you are a constituent, You're 646 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,560 Speaker 2: you're part of the user group. Uh you got to 647 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,520 Speaker 2: get out there and and be a part of this 648 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,879 Speaker 2: and and absolutely go to the All Waters dot org 649 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:31,960 Speaker 2: and UH California Chapter Backcountry Hunters and Anglers. But uh 650 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 2: get informed. It sounds like there's there's a lot of 651 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 2: good to be weighed in the m p A system, 652 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:45,080 Speaker 2: but there's there's a lot of uh ways to get 653 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,480 Speaker 2: uh shut out of the game completely here too unless 654 00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:53,520 Speaker 2: you get involved. So awesome, Well, thank you so much, Matt. Yeah, 655 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,360 Speaker 2: and uh we'll we'll stay in touch and we'll we'll 656 00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,239 Speaker 2: keep folks invested in the off. 657 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:02,840 Speaker 3: Yes, sir, thank you, Cale, appreciate you man. This is 658 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:03,440 Speaker 3: a tomorrow. 659 00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:12,480 Speaker 2: I have a great one. 660 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:08,320 Speaker 3: H