WEBVTT - #348 Jason Flom with Zavion Johnson 0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:06.160 In November of two thousand and one, Zavion Johnson was 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:09.000 bathing his four month old daughter Nadia in preparation for 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:12.080 a visit with family, when, according to Zavion, she slipped 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:13.880 out of his hands and hit her head on the top. 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:17.320 At first, she appeared to be fine, and so Zavion, 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:20.560 his girlfriend, Raquel, and Nadia made their way to great 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:24.079 grandmother's house, but by the time the young family of 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:27.320 three arrived, Nadia was breathing irregularly, so they called nine 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:31.360 one to one and Xavian began CPR. Nadia was rushed 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:33.960 to the hospital, where a CT scan revealed a slight 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:37.680 skull fracture in addition to brain bleeding and swelling, as 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:41.000 well as bleeding behind her eyes. These are the findings 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:44.600 that are typically associated with shaking baby syndrome. A day later, 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:48.760 she was taken off life support and passed away. Although 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:52.280 Zavion denied ever shaking or abusing Nadia and tried to 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:54.040 explain that she had slipped out of his hands in 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:56.840 the shower and hit her head, the established medical opinion 0:00:56.920 --> 0:01:00.840 at that time was clear. Three expert witness has testified 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:03.800 at Zavion's trial that Nadia symptoms could mean only one 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:08.560 thing that absent any other major injuries, Xavion must have 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:12.720 violently shaken Nadia. The defense presented their own expert with 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:16.440 theories that were considered outside the mainstream. Plus there's no 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:19.360 way that just one expert could possibly have refuted the 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:37.639 state's panel of three. But this is wrongful conviction. Welcome 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:40.480 back to wrongful conviction, where today our show involves one 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:44.080 of the worst tragedies any parent can ever experience, the 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:47.520 death of their child, And the only thing that could 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.960 make matters worse is that tragedy is so often compounded 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:54.120 by our criminal legal system with a wrongful conviction by 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:58.680 way of you guessed it's shaken baby syndrome or SBS prosecution, 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:02.720 in which a medical professional will jump to the conclusion 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:05.160 that a set of medical findings could have only one 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:09.040 cause abuse, usually at the hand of the most recent caregiver. 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:13.840 And today we're speaking with another survivor victim of this 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:18.440 faulty diagnosis, Zavian Johnson. Javion. We're very honored. 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:19.239 To have you here with us today. 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.800 Thank you, You're very welcome, and with him, the supervising 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:27.480 attorney at the Northern California Innocence Project Paige kaneb Paige, 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:28.360 Welcome to the show. 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:29.320 Thanks for having me. 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:33.040 Now, we've covered SPS at lant on Raful Conviction Junk Science, 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:35.520 in which our host Josh Dubin spoke with the executive 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:37.840 director of the Center for Integrity and Forensic Science is 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:40.480 Kate Judson, and we're going to have that episode linked 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:42.919 in the bio and Kate is going to be joining 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:46.040 us again later to discuss how the faulty SPS diagnosis 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:49.320 related to ZAVS prosecution and wrongful conviction. But at the 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:52.200 time of your wrongful conviction, the scrutiny of SBS was 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:55.959 just beginning. It had really gone unchecked, starting way back 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:59.160 in nineteen seventy one when a British neurosurgeon named doctor 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:02.120 Norman Guthkell, which was looking for an explanation for a 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:04.440 pattern that he had seen and some injured and even 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:05.400 deceased children. 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:09.280 Brain swelling, subdural hemorrhaging and retinal hemorrhaging intended to be 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:12.520 the three main medical findings that doctors were trained that 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:15.440 when they saw these things that meant it was child abuse, 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:17.480 shaken baby syndrome, abuse of heteromay. 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:22.240 Right the findings again in Layman's terms, brain swelling, brain bleeding, 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:26.280 and bleeding behind the eyes. Now, guth Keltrin he hypothesized 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:28.720 that this pattern could have been caused by a common 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:32.359 scolding method at the time in Britain, which was shaking 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:36.080 an infant or unruly child, and he cautioned parents against 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:38.760 the practice. But what we now know is that they're 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:43.680 eighty one and counting. That's eighty one and counting medical 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:45.760 conditions that can lead to these findings in addition to 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:48.520 a traumatic event. They also believed that they could pinpoint 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:51.120 the time of the occurrence, when in fact, if a 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:53.520 traumatic event was the cause, we now know that the 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:58.160 trigger of those findings could have happened begun at any 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:03.000 time up to seventy two hours before the symptoms really 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:07.200 came to light. So sadly, as we've seen, the most 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:10.560 recent caretaker in this case, a parent comes under suspicion. 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:12.680 But before all of that, Zapp, let's hear about you 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:14.920 and your life. Where did you grow up and how 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:17.799 would you describe yourself as a kid? How was your childhood? 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:21.720 I grew up in Sacramento, California. We was a pretty 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:24.320 well mannered kid. I am the oldest of seven. 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:27.599 As the oldest, I'm guessing you probably must have helped 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:28.080 out a lot. 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:31.000 Yeah, it's just a role you fall into and I 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:34.120 would babysit, I would, you know, Cook just played a 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:37.240 big brother slash father role by being responsible. 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:40.360 And you were still pretty young when you actually became 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:42.560 a father. How did you meet Nadia's mother? 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:45.000 Getting up to high school, that's where I met the 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:47.960 young lady, and we were together from the age of 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:51.680 sixteen to pretty much when the incident happened at eighteen. 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:54.560 And that young woman's name was Raquel, but you called 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:57.160 her Rocky. So in January of two thousand and one 0:04:57.200 --> 0:04:59.920 you found out that she was pregnant. Now did you too, 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:01.800 You have your own place? Did you get place? And 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:03.719 did you feel like you were really ready to be 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:04.440 a dad at that point? 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:05.000 So young? 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:08.279 Yeah, worked for the State of California for cal TRANPS. 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:10.800 I had a pretty good head on my shoulders. Our 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:14.240 parents pretty much lived within walking distance from each other. 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:17.239 We kind of just split time at her dad's house 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:20.280 and at my mom's home until we kind of figured 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:20.880 it out. You know. 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:24.160 So Na he was born that July, right, So what 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:25.960 was that they like? For you and Rocky. 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:27.320 Oh man. 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:30.000 I remember she just woke up in the middle of 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:32.400 the night. I was like, I think I peed on myself. 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:34.080 So I went in there and told my mom. I'm like, 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:36.479 Rocky said, she peed on herself. And then my mom 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:38.440 was like, oh, no, boy, she didn't pee on herself. 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:41.680 And so we made it to the hospital in nineteen 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:46.200 full hours of labor. All I remember seeing was eyes. 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:50.279 She had the most biggest eyes. For the longest time, 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:56.440 I haven't had a chance to like really reflect on 0:05:56.480 --> 0:06:01.680 this because of the simple fact that for seventeen years plus, 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:04.280 I talk about my wrong full confixtion, I talk about 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:05.400 my wrong fully fixtion. 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:07.440 I talk about everything. 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:13.200 That wasn't me, you know, so I kind of I'm 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.920 not gonna say I forgot about, you know, all this, 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:20.760 but to remember it is good. So you know, I 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:25.080 appreciative of this interview. Yeah, twenty six hours, nineteen actual 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:28.640 hours of labor. That's how long I waited for, you know, 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:29.599 my gift. 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:33.360 And as many people testified at the trial, you were 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:37.000 in every way a fantastic, loving dad. But that unfortunately 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:39.400 brings us to the faithful day of November twenty fourth, 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:42.080 two thousand and one when Nadia was just four months old. 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:44.440 Now this would have been just a day or two 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:46.920 after Thanksgiving, the day that the. 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:48.000 Accident took place. 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:51.920 I showered with my daughter and plasten her back into 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:55.400 the little bathtub that was inside of you know, the 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:57.920 big shower. She basically kicked off of my chest and 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:00.159 slipped out of my hands and as a result, so 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.400 if she hit her head, I picked her up, looked 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:05.680 there wasn't like any obvious swilling or anything like that, 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:08.960 So I just pretty much thought to myself, close call. 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:12.840 Grandmother gets there and before we can get to our house, 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:15.720 her breathing and stuff really changed. So we get to 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:19.200 our grandmother's house and that's when nine one one is 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:22.360 called and I try to perform CPR. 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:26.000 So page the EMTs showed up. It's around three twenty pm. 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:30.360 They document that Nadia looks well cared for. There's no 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:35.280 bruises or marks anywhere on her body. They also try 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:39.680 and perform CPR and rush her to the hospital, and 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:43.200 the EMT's note as they're heading towards the hospital that 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:47.280 like a thumbprint type mark is appearing on one side 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:49.720 of her forehead, like a red mark. 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:52.080 And from what I understand That thumb sized mark was 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:54.400 later attributed to the work of the EMTs. 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:58.040 The intubation process doesn't help stabilizing the head. You sort 0:07:58.080 --> 0:07:59.960 of have two fingers on one side in your thumb 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:02.200 on the other side of the forehead to keep the 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:05.880 head still. And later they end up documenting that there 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.520 are bruises kind of on both sides of the forehead 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:11.760 develop exactly where they would have been stabilizing her forehead. 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:14.760 And that's just an example of what an innocent injury 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:17.280 can add to the rush to judgment by hospital staff 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:19.360 to rule an instance to be a case of child 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:22.480 abuse upon a patient's arrival. And so when Nadia arrived 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:25.160 at you see Davis Medical Center, these are the kinds 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:28.400 of things being noted. And at this point she still 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:29.400 had not been revived. 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:32.720 She is placed on life support at the hospital, but 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:35.120 they don't really ever revive her. You know, at the 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:37.840 hospital they do see tea scans and they see a 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:40.760 skull fracture and the thin layer of blood and one 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:42.960 of the tissue layers that wrap around the brain, the 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.800 one closest to the skull. She had retinal hemorrhages, tiny 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:48.560 bits of bleeding in the back of her eyes, and 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:49.600 she had brain swelling. 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:52.320 And there it is the tryaud of findings that had 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:55.520 been hypothesized to be caused by shaking and or abusive 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:59.640 head trauma, a hypothesis that became accepted wisdom of the 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:03.560 medical establishment without ever being tested. I mean, how would 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:08.320 one test it without actually shaking and or abusing children 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:12.120 and risking the potentially fatal results that doctor Gothkelch had feared. 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:17.280 So this hypothesis was never tested, and yet it was 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:20.600 and is taught at medical schools and even in law 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:23.080 schools all over the world, including to the folks that 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:25.160 you see Davis back in two thousand and one. 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:28.920 And they have, you know, a child abuse team who 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:33.359 has been trained to believe that when they see retinal hemorrhages, 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:38.119 subdural hemorrhages, brain swelling, you know, with or without other injuries, 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:42.959 that that means it's shaken baby syndrome. And there's nothing 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:47.320 else really ever even contemplated. And so you can see 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:50.760 it from when Nadia's first brought in. Child abuse is 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:52.720 all over the medical records. 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:55.319 So Zav you must have been out of your mind 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:58.400 with worry. Meanwhile, this child abuse team and you see 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.240 Davis was setting a course for you your arrest. Had 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:05.199 you ever even heard of shaking baby syndrome or SBS? 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:08.960 No, never heard of it, never understood, never knew what 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:10.320 it was. 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.560 It wasn't any shaken and so it just was a 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:13.439 ball of confusion. 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:16.319 When did it dawn on you that you were beginning 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:17.520 to come under suspicion? 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:21.120 When I started to see police is coming there, and 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:22.679 I still, you know, I still kind of didn't know 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:25.959 or fully understand what was going on and wanted to. 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:28.240 Talk to a legal representation. 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.920 First, And just to be clear, because Zavid told all 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:34.400 his family about the fall. One of his aunts actually 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:38.240 told one of the nurses, so they did know about 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:42.120 the fall, even if not, you know, directly from Zev. 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:44.160 Then when did the doctors say too, I don't want 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:46.959 to paraphrase it, but it still wouldn't it mattered, or 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:48.439 it was still going to be too late or. 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:49.160 Something like that. 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:52.079 Well, yeah, they thought it was inconsistent with a fall, 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.000 so it yeah, it didn't matter. So after a couple 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:58.800 of days on life support, the physicians say that they 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:02.240 declare that she's brain dead and has to be removed 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:03.640 from life support. 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:06.280 All those years ago, I'm sure it still hurts to 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:09.000 even think about it, but at the time it must 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:13.920 have been absolutely devastating. And now you and Raquel to 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:18.040 very young parents, had to begin to plan a funeral 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:20.560 for your little girl. That's just not supposed to happen, 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.320 But it did happen a week later, on December fourth, 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:25.960 two thousand and one, and that day found a way 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:27.280 to get even worse. 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:28.440 Oh man. 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:32.880 Yeah, I remember being inside of the church, and you know, 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.839 there's all of our family there and you know, whoever else, 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:39.000 and then I just start seeing people that don't look 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:41.079 like me in the church, and I'm just like, well, 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:43.679 what's going on. I'm not really paying attention to it. 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:47.800 And then I think when we go outside during the burial, 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:51.200 I start seeing kind of like the same people. So, 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:54.520 you know, I remembers taking pictures, making plans to meet 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:56.720 back up at I think at my mom's house or 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:59.960 her dad's house. We set our you know, see, later, 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:03.080 gave her a kiss, I got in the car with 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:06.480 a friend of mine, and she got in the car 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.960 with I think either my mom or her parents. And 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:13.240 before we can even get I don't know how far, 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:17.520 pretty much was pulled over by undercover cars. 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:19.240 And six guns was drawn at me. 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:23.040 I get exited out the vehicles, placed on the hood 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:26.160 of the car in handcuffs, saying I'm being arrested for 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:40.400 murder and I was just like murder of who huh. 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:44.319 This episode is underwritten by global law firm Greenberg Trawig. 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:47.520 Through its pro bono program, Greenberg Trowerg leverages it's more 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:50.760 than twenty six hundred lawyers across forty four offices to 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:53.960 serve the greater good of our communities and provide equal 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:57.240 access to justice for all. In the field of criminal justice, 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:01.000 Greenbrook Trowerg attorneys have Exonerated and Freedom and at Philadelphia 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:05.040 represent numerous individuals previously sentenced to life for crimes committed 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:08.640 as juveniles and resentencing hearings, and received the American Bar 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:12.800 Association's twenty twenty one Exceptional Service Award for Death Penalty 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:16.880 Representation for their work on five death penalty cases. GT 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:19.719 is reimagining what big law can be because of a 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:22.240 more just world. Only happens by design. 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.560 My name is Kate Judson. I'm the executive director of 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.800 the Center for Integrity and Forensic Sciences, and I am 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:39.680 familiar with Xavian Johnson's case and shaken baby cases in general. 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:43.000 In the case of Xavian Johnson, on one hand, we 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:46.560 have Zevian retelling his account that Nadia had taken a 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:48.680 fall of three or four feet and hit her head 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:51.600 on the bathtub. But back in two thousand and one, 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:55.080 the medical establishment had not yet accepted the idea that 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:57.880 a short fall, even coupled with an impact on a 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:01.320 hard surface, could cause the tryad of findings associated with 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:04.000 shaken baby syndrome in abusive head trauma. Now at the 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:07.080 time of trial, the state's experts testimony aligned with this 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:12.359 incorrect assumption. A forensic pathologist who performed Nadia's autopsy testified 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:15.319 that he found bleeding behind her eyes, which was associated 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:17.559 with what he called a rotational head injury. He was 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:20.600 unequivocal in saying that the injuries could not have been 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:24.160 the result of a fall. Doctor Claudia Greco, a neuropathologist, 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:26.840 testified that she found a brain injury that was what 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:29.840 she called the most convincing evidence that the baby died 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:32.520 from shaking and not from a fall of four feet. 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:35.800 And doctor Kevin Colter was the pediatrician at the University 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:39.760 of California, Davis Medical Center, who treated Nadia in the hospital. 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:43.960 He testified that physicians only see the constellation of injuries 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:47.720 that Nadia had with shaking, with falls from what he 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:50.800 called great heights of ten feet or higher, motor vehicle 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:54.680 accidents or similar events where there is what he called 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:59.600 a really significant, high velocity impact. These physicians were totally 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:03.880 under estimating the danger that shortfalls can represent. The defense 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:07.480 witness doctor Richard Robertson, referring to what was then very 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.960 recent biomechanical research, he testified to what we know now 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:13.720 that the injuries in Nadia were consistent with a short 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:17.040 fall onto a hard surface. However, one of the state's witnesses, 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:20.480 doctor Greco, attacked that research, claiming it was unreliable, even 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:23.280 though it later became part of the basis of our 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:26.840 current understanding of shake and baby syndrome, and studies have 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:30.440 shown that falls, even from short distances far exceed the 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:34.360 thresholds for injury then even the most vigorous shaking. Yet, 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:38.000 it appears that Devian's trial came down to a contest 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:41.680 of experts. However misinformed the state's experts were at the time, 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:44.480 the contest was outweighed in the states favor three to one. 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:47.920 You know, I think one of the things that really 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:52.640 makes them so compelling, besides that they're doctors and they're experts, 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:55.680 is they don't have any reason to lie about this, 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:58.480 you know, and they believed what they were saying. 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:03.200 I know, you'd think that nearly the entire medical community, 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:09.080 including these three expert witnesses, would have recognized much sooner 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:15.120 that this SBS diagnosis requires a huge leap in logic 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:19.000 that ignores all the other potential causes, which, like I 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.760 said before, we now know there's at least eighty one others, 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:26.120 and the whole thing seems antithetical to the scientific method. 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.480 I mean, do you have any theories at all as 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:33.840 to why these otherwise learned and probably well intentioned people 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.840 we're testifying this way in case after case. 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:42.640 Medical school doesn't focus on what is the evidence for 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.960 various propositions right. They're not spending their time looking back 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:48.720 at like was the scientific method followed or how well 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.640 did this work out? They spend their time being trained 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:55.800 to recognize various things right and diagnose based on them. 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:59.640 And pediatric deaths is a tiny part of what most 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:03.840 doc's practice, and so they may just remember that they 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:06.560 were trained. When you see these things, its abuse and 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.400 only abuse, you know. The American Academy of Pediatrics put 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:12.080 out a two thousand and one policy statement. They called 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.639 it a Technical Report on Shaking Baby Syndrome, and it 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:18.760 literally says, this constellation of injuries does not happen with shortballs. 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:23.320 And the National Association of Medical Examiners had the same thing, 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:25.960 and the DOJ published guide saying the same thing. 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:30.359 But Zavion's lawyer had his own expert, right, doctor Richard Robertson, 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:33.560 And this guy raised doctor John Plunkett study to say 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:34.480 the opposite. 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:37.480 My trial attorney, I don't got no grievance with them, man. 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:39.600 I believe he tried his artists, you know. 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:43.000 Yeah, he not only presented your own expert testifying to 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:46.000 the current understanding of SBS, but in addition, there were 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:49.000 also over a dozen character witnesses. 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:53.760 Man, it was so many people. I don't remember everyone, 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:57.160 but the main people who should have been up there 0:17:57.560 --> 0:17:59.920 was there. You know, the mother of the child, my mom, 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:04.199 you know, I guess the people who who knew our character. 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:05.600 And zav also. 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:10.080 Took the stand, right, Zav's child attorney, he remembered zav 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:14.119 testifying and that it was super powerful and the jury 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:16.919 was really moved. We have this letter from one of 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:20.280 the jurors talking about how Zev seemed like a really 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:23.359 good young man, seemed like a very loving father. It 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:26.520 seemed horribly out of character for him to have done 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:31.080 anything to harm his daughter. But the medical experts said 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.679 the only possibility was abuse, and so they felt like 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:37.200 they had no choice but to convict. 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:41.119 So you were given two concurrent life sentences, one for 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:44.240 child abuse and one for child abuse resulting in death, 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:47.399 which results in a sentence of twenty five to life. 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.520 I do recall like when I got sentence. I remember 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:54.439 hearing everyone gas eighteen years old. I had to go 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:58.000 and start a double life sentence with you know, just 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.120 me not being able to agree, me not being able 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:06.000 to you know, just fully process you know, the loss 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:09.199 of my child. It just was, it had to be 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:11.680 bottled up. I had to, you know, like I said, 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:14.199 go into survival mode inside of prison. 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:28.560 So fast forward to me being nineteen. 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:32.199 Now I'm sentenced to life and I go start my 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:34.679 time off at a level four high. 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:36.000 Desert State Penitentiary. 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:38.960 I didn't know how I would survive, didn't know how 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:45.119 I would manage. But I walked with something someone and 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:47.320 I know who it is. There was a lot of 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:50.440 things that I seen in front of me, a lot 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:52.280 of things that I seen behind me, a lot of 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:55.479 things that I seen on the side of me. For 0:19:55.560 --> 0:20:02.480 seventeen years, thankfully, nothing agreed tous happened to me. But yeah, 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:05.639 just surviving, I had to pick up fast. It's like 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:08.520 I did as being the older SIP. I spoke less 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:11.520 and I looked more, and I listened more. For surely 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:16.879 there's PTSD. For surely there's counselor needed. For surely I 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:20.439 am not whole, but I'm not broken either, So you 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:22.080 know there is hope. 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.359 And while grinding through, I understand you spent a lot 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:26.800 of time in the law library. 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:30.480 Yeah, it turned into what we call on the inside, 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:31.280 a legal bigle. 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:33.119 And in two thousand and four you filed an appeal 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:36.240 with the Third District California Court of Appeals, which unfortunately 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:39.720 upheld the conviction. And then you continued to file appeals 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:42.719 for pretty much the next ten long years until the 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:45.160 Northern California Innocence Project got involved. 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:48.520 So he'd written to us before his appeal was denied 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:52.080 and then again afterwards he's you know, filing his own 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:53.240 habeas petitions. 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:55.040 You know what, a lot of help from my mom. 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:58.040 She made sure I met deadlines, like she made sure 0:20:58.480 --> 0:20:59.880 I got helped with copies. 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:02.879 Of Yeah, so his mom would print out like abstracts 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:06.480 of medical articles and then Zev would attach those to 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:10.159 habeas petitions, and the court just kept denying him, saying, 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:12.840 you know, you don't have an expert saying how this 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:16.640 applies to your case, And he also kept writing to us. 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:19.960 And then around twenty fourteen, I had been working on 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:22.800 a shaken baby syndrome case, a different one, and had 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:26.399 been learning all about the science or lack thereof, and 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:30.480 I decided to go meet Zav and it was hard 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:31.440 to walk away from him. 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:34.880 She had to help me. But yeah, no, like it's 0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:37.560 just it's a testament to who I am. It's a 0:21:37.600 --> 0:21:40.320 testament to the father that I was, to the son 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:43.600 that I was, to the cousin that I was, to 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:46.359