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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Cutting the Distance. September is finally here.

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Speaker 1: The bulls are starting to get fired up, and that's

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Speaker 1: exactly what we're going to cover on today's episode is

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Speaker 1: elk hunting during the rut. Our guest today is a

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Speaker 1: coworker here at me Eater, and when I first talked

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Speaker 1: to him, I could tell that he just gets it.

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Speaker 2: He's a great elk hunter.

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Speaker 1: He can talk to people that kind of buffalo their

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Speaker 1: way through a conversation. But you know, we got chatting

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Speaker 1: about elk hunting and things that I did versus things

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Speaker 1: that he did, and you could just tell it clicked

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Speaker 1: with him. He was born and raised in Montana and

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Speaker 1: has spent the last fourteen years guiding elk hunters, one

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Speaker 1: in Colorado, thirteen in Montana, and those were both all

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Speaker 1: wilderness expeditions as well as private ranches and everywhere in between.

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Speaker 1: He's going to be mad that I added this, because

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Speaker 1: I know he was joking when he sent this for

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Speaker 1: his bio, but he said he has killed more shit

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Speaker 1: than the plague was his last line in his bio.

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Speaker 1: But today's guest is Corey Caulkins, Gray Hunter, and glad

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Speaker 1: to have you on the show.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what's up, Jason, Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, have you had a chance to get in the

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Speaker 1: woods yet?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I went out. I was opening weekend this last

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Speaker 3: weekend here in Montana, and yeah, got out.

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Speaker 4: We had some beautiful weather.

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Speaker 3: Actually it was a little hot on opening Day and

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Speaker 3: then some torrential rain came in the following Sunday and Monday.

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Speaker 3: Over the Labor Day weekend, it was pretty quiet elk

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Speaker 3: wise in the woods. There were sure a lot of

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Speaker 3: people getting after it, some hunters, some just recreational dirt bikers,

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Speaker 3: but it was loud in the woods. There's a lot

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Speaker 3: of people making a lot of noise for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I've always loved and hated Labor Day because it's

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Speaker 1: the start of elk season, but it's also like the

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Speaker 1: last weekend for all the hikers and recreationalists aside from

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Speaker 1: US hunters, and it just seems to pack every trailhead,

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Speaker 1: every good area. Everybody's hiking everywhere, and it's and the

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Speaker 1: elk really aren't cranking. So it's a little bit of

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Speaker 1: your we're so just to be out in the woods,

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Speaker 1: but yet it's not always like the most productive.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, Yeah, across the board that I've heard not a

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Speaker 3: lot of bugle in action. Elk still in their bachelor

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Speaker 3: summer herds summer locations. But man, it's kind of change

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Speaker 3: by the day here as we as we speak.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I got to get out this weekend a little

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Speaker 1: bit easier of a hunt because it was a rough hunt.

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Speaker 1: And then the kid had drawn a rifle tag. But

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Speaker 1: same thing.

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Speaker 2: There were bulls around.

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Speaker 1: They would answer beagles just enough so that we keep

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Speaker 1: tabs on them, but they you know, if I had

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Speaker 1: a bow in my hand, I would be really I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be real confident that I would be able to

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Speaker 1: make anything happen. Just how you know, lacks of daisical.

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Speaker 1: Their beagles were really wasn't interested. You know, the bull

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Speaker 1: didn't the herd bowl didn't even show up in the

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Speaker 1: herd until eight thirty in the morning. He was obviously

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Speaker 1: out running ridges, looking for other cows and whatnot, and

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Speaker 1: then he kind of showed up and rolled into the

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Speaker 1: group of about forty cows. But yeah, still real big

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Speaker 1: herds and they haven't really got broken down yet and

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Speaker 1: bowls still running together. So it seems I don't want

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Speaker 1: to say it's late, but it's it's not kicked off

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Speaker 1: yet for sure.

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Speaker 3: For sure, Yeah, I don't know the way this season,

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Speaker 3: at least in the northern half of the Rockies, everything

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Speaker 3: seems to be like a week late. I'm a big

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Speaker 3: angler to fly fishermen, and a lot of hatches were late,

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Speaker 3: rivers were high later than you know, at least still

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Speaker 3: compared to the last couple of years. So one's got

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Speaker 3: to wonder if things might be just a couple of

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Speaker 3: days or a week later in the elkra this year.

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Speaker 4: We'll see.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean we can get into this in

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Speaker 1: a little bit. But I've always been that one like, no,

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Speaker 1: your excuse of the rut's late, or your excuse of

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Speaker 1: the moon, or your excuse of you know, they weren't

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Speaker 1: bigle in this year. Like I've never bought into it.

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Speaker 1: But one thing the last couple of years. And I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I'm making my own excuses now, but

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Speaker 1: I felt like it's been later. I don't know how

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Speaker 1: what I would attribute it to or what, but it

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Speaker 1: seems like, man, they were still going a lot better

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Speaker 1: into October than they have in the past. But may

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Speaker 1: just be me making a weak excuse for myself.

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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: October is still great month those first two weeks to

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Speaker 3: get after bugle and elk.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they're still pretty fired up.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people give up by then, and man,

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Speaker 3: it's not a good time to give up yet.

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Speaker 1: And one thing that I would like to point out,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's not exactly true, but what I've noticed growing

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Speaker 1: up hunting Roosevelts versus being able to the last ten

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Speaker 1: years hunt a lot of Rocky bowls, is the rut

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Speaker 1: truly is over somewhere as soon as October rolls around

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Speaker 1: the elk, know, like Roosevelts were done. Where when I've

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Speaker 1: got to hunt Rockies, you know, they're still bugling into

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Speaker 1: the second third week of October. Still a lot of times.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it has to do with herd

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Speaker 1: dynamics or areas, or you know, the health of the

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Speaker 1: herd when they can come into estrus or whatnot, But

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Speaker 1: that's one that's one major difference I've known is that

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Speaker 1: the Rockies seem to rut into October a lot further

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Speaker 1: than the Roosevelts.

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Speaker 3: So, yeah, our rifle season here in Montana opens, you know,

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Speaker 3: around like the twentieth through twenty eighth ish fourth weekend,

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Speaker 3: and h October and I called in a bowl for

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Speaker 3: a client with the cow call that opening weekend a

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Speaker 3: rifle season.

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Speaker 2: Nice.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's been good.

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Speaker 1: Same thing with my wife when she had that tag

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Speaker 1: as October twenty eighth and on a rifle tag, and

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Speaker 1: he bugled three hundred times at that afternoon, and once

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Speaker 1: they got out of bed, bugled this whole way up

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Speaker 1: before she was able to get a shot at him.

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Speaker 1: It was just, you know, just nuts. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if a cow came in late or what, but man,

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Speaker 1: it reconstituted the rut there for at least an evening

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Speaker 1: and we took advantage of it. So all right, now

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Speaker 1: we're gonna, like every show, we're going to jump into

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Speaker 1: listener questions. It's funny, you know, as ELK season gets close,

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Speaker 1: we get all of these listener questions and I like

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Speaker 1: to take those or give them to my guests and

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Speaker 1: let them answer them. If you have questions for me

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Speaker 1: or my guests here at Cutting the Distance, please email

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Speaker 1: them to us at CTD at phelpsgame Calls dot com,

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Speaker 1: or hit us up on social media, send us messages,

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Speaker 1: and we'll do our best to get him included. So

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Speaker 1: our first question today comes from holding Kuhn. A buddy

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Speaker 1: and him are going to go on their first l

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Speaker 1: CONTs this year. It's a rifle hunt. They both have tags,

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Speaker 1: assuming they're hunting and glossing together, and they spot out,

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Speaker 1: how do you decide who shoots first? So me and

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Speaker 1: my own buddies, I'll let ego first. We've always had

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Speaker 1: our own system. But I'll let you answer, Cory. If

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Speaker 1: if your equals and you didn't invite somebody or they

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Speaker 1: didn't invite you, Like, how do you guys decide who

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Speaker 1: shoots man?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, if it's equal, like you both haven't shot an

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Speaker 3: elk ever before or whatever, I'll usually draw straws or

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Speaker 3: draw blade of grass, or flip a coin, like just

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Speaker 3: make it the luck of the draw. A lot of

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Speaker 3: times like that, the scenario might play out to where

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Speaker 3: only one person ends up getting the shot. You kind

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Speaker 3: of want to leave it open minded to that, but yeah,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, flip a coin.

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Speaker 1: That's that's how we usually roll, unless it's a hunt

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Speaker 1: where maybe I've already got to go on a hunt

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Speaker 1: and they don't have as much time or freedom and

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Speaker 1: this is their one hundred the year. You know, you

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Speaker 1: extend some you know, you extend that offer to them,

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Speaker 1: like no, go ahead and start, and then you do

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Speaker 1: every other day. We don't like to both carry our

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Speaker 1: bows around. It's like you focus on what you're supposed

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Speaker 1: to do. I'll focus on and the chance of us

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Speaker 1: getting a shot at a second bowl there is always

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Speaker 1: that chance, but it's never really you know, shown itself.

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Speaker 2: So we usually pack one bow. The other guy's.

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Speaker 1: Responsible for the calls and the raking and the brushing,

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Speaker 1: and then that way we can just kind of avoid

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Speaker 1: you know, two people trying to get shots or you know,

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Speaker 1: not doing any of that. And just like you, we

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Speaker 1: usually either do like one full day that way we

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Speaker 1: don't have to get back to camp, or if it's

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Speaker 1: like a rifle hunt, we'll do like a night in

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Speaker 1: the morning. But usually once you flip the coin and

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Speaker 1: get going or however you want to do it, just

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Speaker 1: come up with a system and you know your hunter

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Speaker 1: one day and then your color the next, and you

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Speaker 1: just switch throughout the hunt and rifle Mildiary. Of course

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Speaker 1: we're not in a Milier podcast, Like if it's rifle Mildier,

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Speaker 1: we'll just play whoever spots it shoots it the entire time,

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Speaker 1: you know, so it keeps everybody on the glass all

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Speaker 1: the time, versus a guy thinking he's going to take

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Speaker 1: a nap or whatnot, which is another good incentive. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you spot it or locate it or find it,

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Speaker 1: then you're up. It just incentivizes a you know, staying

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Speaker 1: getting after it and staying after it throughout the whole hunt.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it makes you work a little harder.

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Speaker 1: This is a this is a question which I've got

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Speaker 1: to get answer for what I'll see how you answer.

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Speaker 1: His second question, also from holding Kun, he wants to

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Speaker 1: be a better caller, but feels he lacks the lung

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Speaker 1: capacity or the ability to call either long or loud enough.

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Speaker 1: Is there a way to improve that?

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Speaker 3: Well, to get louder, he should get the Phelps metal

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Speaker 3: bugle tube. Can't get much louder than that. My ears

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Speaker 3: ring every time I blow that thing personally. Yea, man,

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Speaker 3: I don't know. There's probably some lung exercises you could do.

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Speaker 3: You know, I know a lot of folks struggle, say

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Speaker 3: they're coming from lower elevation, they go into higher elevation,

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Speaker 3: it can take them a few days to just get

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Speaker 3: their lungs back up and running, especially if they're hiking

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Speaker 3: the hills and working really hard. It could be hard

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Speaker 3: for anybody to blow a bugle when you're when your

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Speaker 3: blood's pumping like that. But man, there's probably some long

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Speaker 3: exercises you can do. Take some just you know, leading

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Speaker 3: up to a hunt. Do some lung stretches. Not only

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Speaker 3: are to be mentally and physically prepared, but also preparing

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Speaker 3: those lungs for for what have you. And then just

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Speaker 3: all in all, practice bugling and cal calling.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's that's what's gonna be my two part answers.

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Speaker 1: As we do design calls. The easy bugler attached to

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Speaker 1: an aluminum our metal bugle to very very loud and

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Speaker 1: it requires less error than being able to run a diaphragm.

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Speaker 1: So there are calls that will get you the ability

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Speaker 1: to be a better caller or to be louder if

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Speaker 1: that's what you're after. And then one thing you may

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Speaker 1: never let me, let me back up just by running

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Speaker 1: calls a lot, like we've been able to be at

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Speaker 1: lots of sportsman shows. We've been around guys that seem

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Speaker 1: to start to show as like a mediocre caller and

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Speaker 1: then just being in the booth for a week half

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Speaker 1: into bugle, half into bugle. It's just like anything, the

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Speaker 1: more you do it, the more your lungs are gonna

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Speaker 1: become adapted. They're gonna they're gonna be more comfortable, and

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Speaker 1: you're gonna be able to bugle, louder, cleaner, all that stuff.

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Speaker 1: And we've you know, we've noticed it at the shows

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Speaker 1: where a guy comes in it's like, oh, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if we want him begling on a call, you know,

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Speaker 1: or or blowing on a call, because it's not really

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Speaker 1: good for sales, but just being around good callers and

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Speaker 1: doing it over and over and by the end, you're like,

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Speaker 1: that guy got a lot better, you know. And then

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Speaker 1: the last thing I wanted to touch base on lung

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Speaker 1: capacity is one thing and I'm going to nerd out

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Speaker 1: on people here for a little bit, is it's fairly tied.

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Speaker 1: There is a very high correlation with your age and

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Speaker 1: your height, not your weight, not anything else. So like

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Speaker 1: a lot of the air capacity lung capacity charts that

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Speaker 1: that I look at when I'm modeling a Beagle tube

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Speaker 1: will have the age. I don't remember how all the

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Speaker 1: accesses are laid out, but basically age and your height

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Speaker 1: will then dictate like your max capacity, like output from

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Speaker 1: your lung So it's one thing that you get older,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have less. If you're short, you're already at

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Speaker 1: a disadvantage just based on the core relation. And but

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Speaker 1: one thing I found is maybe that doesn't necessarily add

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Speaker 1: up because we've got small guys that can crank. So

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Speaker 1: maybe it's a different, you know, a different capacity that

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Speaker 1: your lungs have. But I would say to stop bssing

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Speaker 1: about this long drawn out answer is just practice a lot.

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Speaker 1: The more you're in a call, the better you're gonna

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Speaker 1: get it running a call, the more control you're going

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Speaker 1: to have over that call.

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Speaker 2: And and that'll kind of fix it for you.

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Speaker 3: Well man fitness getting ready for an l hunt, you know,

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Speaker 3: is going to help your lungs, Stretch them out, get

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Speaker 3: them stronger, get that fire out of them. The first

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Speaker 3: couple of hikes up a steep hill with a heavy backpack,

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Speaker 3: I don't see how that would would hurt your lungs.

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Speaker 3: To be able to call a little bit longer and louder.

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Speaker 1: Yep, yep, and allows you to call without taking a

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Speaker 1: minute break, so you can, finally, after you get done

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Speaker 1: with it, actually still blow on the tube when you're

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Speaker 1: when you're grinding it out is also another thing, like

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Speaker 1: you know I've ran into like I need ten seconds

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Speaker 1: before I can blow on their twenty or thirty, you know,

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Speaker 1: and the better shape you're in that, the better you're

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Speaker 1: going to be.

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Speaker 5: So our second question comes from Nick in Utah, which

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Speaker 5: obviously listens to the show because he starts out, I

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Speaker 5: know you don't use a decoy very much, if ever,

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Speaker 5: but I was wondering if you've ever tried using a

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Speaker 5: decoy for elk hunting in the low country of Juniper's

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Speaker 5: opinions before.

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Speaker 1: If not, how could or would you use this strategy

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Speaker 1: and what would it look like in your eyes? If

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Speaker 1: this was used, would it be effective? And then is

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Speaker 1: there a strategy where you wouldn't use this tactic? So

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Speaker 1: go ahead and answer that. Have you ever decoyed Corey?

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Speaker 3: I have not.

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Speaker 4: I have not, but man, I really want to.

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Speaker 3: There's been many scenarios where I wish I had a

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Speaker 3: decoy because I think it would have lured him in

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Speaker 3: just that much further, because you know, they're pretty keen

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Speaker 3: on coming into the sound of a cowora bowle coming

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Speaker 3: in and curious. But a lot of times if they

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Speaker 3: don't see anything, that just triggers their nervousness to not

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Speaker 3: come in any closer. And man, it's happened way too

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Speaker 3: many times where they get hung up at that sixty

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Speaker 3: seventy eighty yard mark. And I believe if the decoy

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Speaker 3: was behind me or behind the shooter, then that would

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Speaker 3: bring him in, you know, that extra twenty yards needed.

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Speaker 4: So no I have ever used one actually in the field.

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Speaker 3: I guess I don't want to carry one around because

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Speaker 3: climbing twelve to fifteen miles a day.

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Speaker 1: Yep, I'm in the same boat. I've we've tried to

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Speaker 1: take them and we've lost her before. We've ever got

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Speaker 1: to use it, both on two different hunts. So somewhere

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Speaker 1: out there there are there's an elk decoy out there.

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Speaker 1: But I, you know, just thinking about it, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: want to use it in wide open country where you know,

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Speaker 1: things can can can look out of place. I think

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Speaker 1: the situation they're talking about that Nick's talking about, like

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Speaker 1: low country Juniper's pinions. As long as it's tight enough

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Speaker 1: and not wide opening can be seen from hundreds yards away,

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Speaker 1: it would work.

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Speaker 2: And then it works even.

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Speaker 1: Better and maybe tight timber where if they can get

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Speaker 1: a glimpse, you know, when they're at seventy or eighty

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Speaker 1: yards or one hundred yards, but real tight, and I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna you know, roll roll into why. I think that

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Speaker 1: a lot of times those bowls will hold up where

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Speaker 1: they expect to see that cow or where that cow

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Speaker 1: can then see them, and they expect that cow to

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Speaker 1: go to them, right because they don't want to leave

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Speaker 1: their herd. And so if you're giving the bowl the

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Speaker 1: ability or whatever you're trying to call the ability to

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Speaker 1: see this cow from two hundred or three hundred yards away,

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Speaker 1: he's going to sit out there. Most likely, not not always,

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Speaker 1: but he, in my opinion's going to set out there

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Speaker 1: and beegle and then just not come in so within

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Speaker 1: shooting range. Versus if there is no visual and that

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Speaker 1: bowl can't lay eyes on that cow decoy, you may

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Speaker 1: have better options. So I think it really depends on

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Speaker 1: how tight the vegetation is when that bowl will finally

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Speaker 1: be able to see that decoy and then you know,

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Speaker 1: but like I said, I'm just guessed guessing at what

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Speaker 1: would happen. You could have a bowl that has no

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Speaker 1: cows and he's always looking for a cow. He may

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Speaker 1: run right into that setup versus a herd bull may

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Speaker 1: not be willing to come any closer, you know, and

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Speaker 1: leave his cows for just a lone cow that's out

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Speaker 1: there calling to him. He expects her to come to him.

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Speaker 1: And so I don't have a great answer for that either,

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Speaker 1: but I think you wouldn't want to use it in

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Speaker 1: wide open country. Want it to be at least relatively

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Speaker 1: tight enough that bowl would have to be somewhat close

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Speaker 1: to see it.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm. Yeah, engage's curiosity just enough to bring him

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Speaker 3: in that much closer for sure, yep.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then our last question I believe come from Corey Bonen.

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Speaker 1: He was wondering if we've ever covered the topic on

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Speaker 1: post rut. He lives in Alberta, Canada, hunts elk in

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Speaker 1: the foothills of the Rockies, and he says it seems

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Speaker 1: to be the actually starts to taper off by the

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Speaker 1: third week of September, and their rifle season up there

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Speaker 1: starts on September seventeenth, and he says by the time

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Speaker 1: they get the October they're hard pressed to get any bugles.

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Speaker 1: What are the best tactics for kind of that post

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Speaker 1: rep for you know, kind of going back to what

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Speaker 1: we've already talked about. You know, still pretty decent bugling

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Speaker 1: into October. But let's say you had a tag for

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Speaker 1: middle October and still wanted to run calls or use

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Speaker 1: that to your advantage. Like, what would be your strategy?

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Speaker 3: Man, There's there has to be a fired up bowl somewhere,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, having to hunt in an area where few

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Speaker 3: rifle shots have already gone off, that'll shut some elk

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Speaker 3: up for sure. You and I Jason to both hunted

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Speaker 3: in the Bob Marshall Wilderness where we can hunt with

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Speaker 3: rifles September fifteenth, and those first few days are fire.

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Speaker 3: But then when they hear a couple of rifle shots

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Speaker 3: go off there, they're a little less apt to scream

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Speaker 3: at the top of their lungs. You can still find

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Speaker 3: them out there, you just might have to dig a

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Speaker 3: little deeper and get a little further back, maybe where

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Speaker 3: people haven't been.

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's worth giving up on just the

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Speaker 3: same tactics hunting ridges, bugle in looking for that one

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Speaker 3: that might still be fired up in there, because that's

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Speaker 3: still early enough. Obviously it varies by regions north to

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Speaker 3: south especially, but man, there's got to be one fired

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Speaker 3: up somewhere. I don't think it's worth giving up on

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Speaker 3: the calling.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's I mean elk ridges they've got that

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Speaker 1: built in safety feature right where they do hear those

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Speaker 1: gun shots? Are the are you and maybe I mean

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Speaker 1: we can't have a conversation with Corey Corey Bona not you.

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Speaker 1: It's like, are are these elk just non existent? Or

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Speaker 1: are you still seeing them? They're just not bugling? That

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Speaker 1: would be nice to know. But my guess is these

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Speaker 1: elk are going back to some Heidi holes, right, They're

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Speaker 1: trying to get away from pressure. They still maybe you know,

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Speaker 1: you may need to go find those. It's tough to

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Speaker 1: figure that out. But as far as strategy, I would

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Speaker 1: still I use I use my bugle fairly religiously. You know,

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Speaker 1: into the middle of October, if I was hunting rockies,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's like I will probably get a response

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Speaker 1: if there are cows in the area that are still

387
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Speaker 1: coming into estrus or even if even if not, like

388
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Speaker 1: he's still may be willing to try to find that

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Speaker 1: last cow, he may answer you. And then as far

390
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Speaker 1: as calling a bowl into range. You know, we're we're

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Speaker 1: pretty heavy buglers. But I would maybe switch a little

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Speaker 1: more to cow calls at that point, especially if you've

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Speaker 1: got a rifle in your hand. You know, I just

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Speaker 1: got off of a rifle rut hunt, and it's tough

395
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Speaker 1: to like remove myself from my archery tactics. It's like, hey,

396
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Speaker 1: we got a gun. You know, we're hunting with a gun.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: I don't need to call this bowl in the range.

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Speaker 1: I don't need the risk getting winded. I don't need

400
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Speaker 1: to get tight like. I just need to know where

401
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Speaker 1: he's at and then we'll find him.

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Speaker 2: And so.

403
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Speaker 1: That's why I would say, if you're rifle hunting by

404
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Speaker 1: September seventeenth already, I would bugle and locate and then

405
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Speaker 1: turn it into a you know, a spot spot the

406
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Speaker 1: bowl and try to get in a position to shoot it,

407
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Speaker 1: not necessarily call that thing all the way in now.

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00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:28,119
Speaker 1: Like I said, I don't know where they're at. They

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Speaker 1: might be in heavy timber, and I might be saying

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Speaker 1: stuff that's just not useful to them. But that would

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Speaker 1: be my go to is you know, hunt them like

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Speaker 1: you've got a rifle, and maybe some of this stuff

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Speaker 1: we always talk about getting him into archy range.

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Speaker 2: It's just too much risk at that point.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that's a good good point.

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Speaker 3: Maybe to sum that up, just spot, maybe shifting more

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Speaker 3: towards spot and stock, but to be able to spot

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Speaker 3: him with either your glass or if you can just

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Speaker 3: locate them, get one to screw up by Yeah, bugle

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Speaker 3: in her cow call and then stock in from there,

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Speaker 3: get a few hundred yards away.

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Speaker 4: Got a high advantage with that high powered rifle.

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Speaker 2: Yep, yep.

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Speaker 1: So well, thanks, thanks everybody for your your questions. If you,

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Speaker 1: like I said earlier, if you have questions for us,

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Speaker 1: our guests myself, email us at ct D at phelps

427
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,760
Speaker 1: game Calls dot com, or send us social media messages.

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00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:20,800
Speaker 1: We're on all the platforms there. Make sure to get

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Speaker 1: him over and we'll try to get him included here

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Speaker 1: in our show. So now we're gonna jump into my

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Speaker 1: discussion with you, Corey. Tell me a little bit about

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Speaker 1: where you where you guided, kind of how long you

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Speaker 1: been doing, how you got it into it, a little

434
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,719
Speaker 1: background on yourself, and then we'll roll into some questions

435
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:51,919
Speaker 1: on your clientele and and the elk that you got

436
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:52,359
Speaker 1: to hunt.

437
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, let's see, uh, fresh out of high school.

438
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,080
Speaker 3: I started guiding nell hunters. My first year was down

439
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:03,200
Speaker 3: in Colorado, which, as everybody knows, has an extremely high

440
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,960
Speaker 3: elk population versus the other Western states out here, and

441
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,239
Speaker 3: it's true there's a lot of elk down there. We

442
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,359
Speaker 3: went sixty four for sixty four in the archery and

443
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,760
Speaker 3: rifle seasons that I went down. They're not all bowls.

444
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,159
Speaker 3: We never shot one over three hundred and twenty inches

445
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:19,880
Speaker 3: that year, but man, there's just a lot of elk

446
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:20,920
Speaker 3: roam in those mountains.

447
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 4: Very impressive.

448
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 3: Was signed up to go back down that next year

449
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,960
Speaker 3: when I was going to be nineteen, but ended up

450
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,879
Speaker 3: landing a job in the Bob Marshall Wilderness much closer

451
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,760
Speaker 3: where I was born and raised in northwest Montana, and

452
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,520
Speaker 3: couldn't pass up the opportunity. It started out as guiding

453
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,919
Speaker 3: fishermen in the Bob and then we have an early

454
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:48,040
Speaker 3: rifle season back there, opened September fifteenth with a rifle

455
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:49,679
Speaker 3: and it was kind of always a dream to go

456
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:50,560
Speaker 3: back in there to hunt.

457
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:51,119
Speaker 4: Personally.

458
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 3: My folks had lived in Montana since the seventies and

459
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,239
Speaker 3: went back in there on some DIY hunts on their

460
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,639
Speaker 3: own and just hearing those, always wanted to put my

461
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,120
Speaker 3: boots in the wilderness, and this was a good chance

462
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 3: to do it and get paid to do it. So

463
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 3: I guided deep in the wilderness for seven years, learned

464
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 3: a lot about elk hunting I was young, that was

465
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 3: my early twenties, and then just kind of through the

466
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,440
Speaker 3: grapevine of working in the industry, was able to land

467
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,560
Speaker 3: a pretty fantastic guiding job just north of Bozeman here

468
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,400
Speaker 3: where I live now, on a couple different private ranches

469
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 3: that honestly are the total opposite spectrum of elk hunting.

470
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 3: Going from deep in the wilderness having to earn just

471
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 3: getting back there mandatory nine to ten miles on a

472
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 3: horse just to enter the wilderness unit versus shooting elk

473
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 3: off the hood of a truck, not literally, of course,

474
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,639
Speaker 3: but pretty close, and then loading them in hole with

475
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 3: a wench electric wench in the back of the truck.

476
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 3: Pretty mind blowing spectrum to go from one to the other.

477
00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 3: That first year guiding on those. One of the private

478
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 3: ranches up here had to send video of the first

479
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 3: bowl I harvest was a three hundred and fifty one

480
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 3: inch bowl that.

481
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 4: I helped harvest.

482
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,919
Speaker 3: Excuse me, guided, and I wench the whole thing in

483
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 3: the back of a truck, was able to drive right

484
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 3: to it and had to record the video send that

485
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 3: to all my buddies who were still grinding and out

486
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 3: in the wilderness, and they all, I'm pretty sure puked

487
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 3: on their phones when they saw that. But so I

488
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,119
Speaker 3: was pretty spoiled from there, but definitely earned earned my stripes,

489
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 3: I would say, to get to that point. And yeah,

490
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 3: two very different spectrums of guiding, and I spent eight

491
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,679
Speaker 3: years guiding on these ranches that I'm speaking of.

492
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you've got a real It sounds like you

493
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 1: got a real contrast from doing it maybe as hard

494
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: and as far away from the truck as he can

495
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 1: versus doing it as close and maybe I don't want

496
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 1: to say easy, but definitely, definitely the odds are stacked

497
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: in your favorite more on that private land you know

498
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: it's managed to be that versus you know, the unmanaged wilderness,

499
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 1: semi unmanaged wilderness.

500
00:22:58,840 --> 00:22:59,439
Speaker 2: Did you just kind of.

501
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,719
Speaker 1: Get what you get and the train gets thrown at

502
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:02,360
Speaker 1: you and whatnot?

503
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 4: And exactly so quick.

504
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 2: Story about me.

505
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 1: I don't know if I tried to be a guide

506
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 1: an elk hunting guide right out of high school, and uh,

507
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 1: my parents gave me the the ultimatum of like this

508
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 1: is where we break your plate. Like if you go

509
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 1: to college and and go do all of that, you

510
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 1: get to you know, you can stay here and finish

511
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 1: out your college or if you go do that, like

512
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 1: you're kind of on your own.

513
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:24,359
Speaker 2: I'm like, gosh, dang it.

514
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: But uh no, long story, so I wouldn't trade it

515
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 1: for the world, like the path I got, you know,

516
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: to being able to sit here and have the conversation

517
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 1: with you. You know, we're both in similar spots. But uh,

518
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: that was my that was my goal out of high school.

519
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 1: I didn't wasn't interested in getting what I would call

520
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,239
Speaker 1: a normal job or doing the normal I didn't want

521
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 1: to go to college. But uh yeah, that was my goal,

522
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 1: is to do that guiding right out of high school.

523
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 1: But never never got to it.

524
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I never knew that about you.

525
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So, uh you got to hunt with a

526
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 1: lot of different elk hunters and and these when I

527
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,439
Speaker 1: say elk hunters, guys that guys in get that were

528
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 1: maybe coming in for different experiences. Right when we booked

529
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 1: the ball, we booked it with the full understanding that

530
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,159
Speaker 1: if we didn't kill anything, we'd get to see some

531
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 1: amazing country right and see, but there was still decent

532
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 1: elk and deer to be had in there. And then

533
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 1: you've got to see people that book on these ranches

534
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: with the intention of they probably just want to kill

535
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: the biggest bull they can as easy as they can

536
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:19,679
Speaker 1: do it. Be back in the lawge drinking a whiskey

537
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: at night, you know, so you've got to see the

538
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 1: entire spectrum of elk hunters. Is there like a parallel

539
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: you can make regardless of whether they're in the wilderness

540
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: or whether they were down at the ranches that like

541
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,719
Speaker 1: made a good elk hunter or made a good client,

542
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 1: or you know, is there any parallels you can make there?

543
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: Or maybe the major contrasts.

544
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 3: You know, just trusting your guide it would have been

545
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 3: a major I guess it's kind of switches up your

546
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 3: question a little bit, but kind of a great parallel

547
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 3: between the two types of clients. That just made a

548
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 3: guide's job or my life so much easier, was just

549
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 3: to listen and trust your guide because they're doing it,

550
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 3: they've been doing it, and you know they're gonna ask

551
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 3: you for pointers or your opinion on a certain scenario.

552
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 3: But just follow the leader, whether you're on a horseback

553
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 3: or in the side of a pickup truck, just trust

554
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 3: your guide that he's taking you the right spot and

555
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 3: trying to get you the you know, most successful outcome

556
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 3: that you're paying for.

557
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 4: Whether it's you.

558
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 3: Know, four thousand dollars for a nine day horseback hunter,

559
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,959
Speaker 3: twelve thousand dollars for five day drive around and spot

560
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 3: one hundred elka day hunt, they're very different. But yeah,

561
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 3: does that answer your question?

562
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 4: I feel like I pivoting.

563
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, No, For the most part, it's a tough

564
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: question to answer. So I'm gonna kind of twist it

565
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: up a little bit as I present it here. Is

566
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 1: so let's let's take away the ranch and let's just

567
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 1: focus on the public land, grinded out, a little bit

568
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: more physical, a little bit less guaranteed by by far

569
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: when you were up in the in and the bob, Like,

570
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 1: what do those hunters, let's say you're coming from out

571
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 1: east you've never experienced the West, or like, what do

572
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: these people need to be prepared for? Like what would

573
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 1: be your best guidance, you know, for them to hit

574
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 1: the ground running and maybe be successful.

575
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 3: One hundred percent physical stamina, Like start preparing physically early

576
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 3: on That country we were in is very hard on people.

577
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 3: I guided people who had the sheep grand slam on

578
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 3: their walls that that elk hunt kicked their butt. It's

579
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 3: pretty rugged terrain. And any elk terrain, whether you're leaving

580
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 3: a leaving the pick up every morning or going deep

581
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 3: in on horseback or whatever, elk living really rugged terrain.

582
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 3: So just physically being fit, having your stamina as high

583
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 3: as you think you got, you can handle it. You know,

584
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 3: you owe the respect to the animal to say you

585
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 3: shoot something and doesn't drop right away, You owe that

586
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 3: animal a lot to be able to cantinue to grind

587
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 3: and try and recover that thing. Don't give up on it.

588
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 3: Also a mental stamina as well, not only physical but mental.

589
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 4: If you got whether it's.

590
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 3: Five days or ten days designated and something happens early,

591
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 3: or it's just the hunts not going your way, luck's

592
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 3: not having it, just stay in the game and yeah,

593
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 3: stay at it. Mental and physical stamina is so important

594
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 3: for l cunning.

595
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and one thing, I mean, I'm going to take

596
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: a little side approach, but even the physical side that

597
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: we rode there was a fire of the year I

598
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: went in there and we had to come in a

599
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: different direction. So we were on the horses for or

600
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 1: mules for thirty plus miles. There were a few of

601
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 1: us that had been working out fairly heavily, and we

602
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 1: were okay because we walked about eight miles and walked

603
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: our horses for another twenty two or whatever, you know,

604
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 1: plus or minus a few miles.

605
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 2: It was along.

606
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: It was before you know, dark to after dark sort

607
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: of a ride. There were some of the guys in

608
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: our crew that couldn't walk the next stage just because

609
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: of the horse ride, and you know, guys that aren't

610
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 1: horse guys or meal guys, and the guys that were

611
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 1: in better shape and have been working out, we were sore,

612
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: but we were able to go, you know. And so

613
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 1: it's like it all tied in like something I never

614
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 1: would have thought preparing for a for a hunt, because

615
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: I'm not a horse guy. I'm not a meal guy,

616
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 1: but you need that to be able to access that country,

617
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: like the physical win as far as that, and then

618
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 1: these guys that maybe needed some breaks, like the very

619
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 1: next day we didn't need to recoup from our base camp.

620
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: Then we spiked out an additional five miles because that's

621
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 1: where we thought, and these other guys were like, oh no,

622
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 1: we'll do it later in the hunt, and we went.

623
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: You know, we were there to go be successful, and

624
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: that was kind of our our mindset. And that's where

625
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: you know, we always look at physical and mental as different.

626
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: But I would always argue that a lot of your

627
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: mental will come from physically challenging yourself, because that's usually

628
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: where you start to question your Your mental starts to

629
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: come into play, as your sore or your feet hurt,

630
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: you're tired, you know, you're hungry or that, and so

631
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: you let that physical ability like start to affect your

632
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: mental you know, like, well, I'm gonna just hunt around

633
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: camp today, not saying it's not it's better than not

634
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: hunting at all, but it's also not as good as

635
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: climbing back up to the top of the mountain, you know,

636
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: where you think the critters might be or whatnot. And

637
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: so my advice is always getting as good a physical

638
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: shape as you can, and it's gonna limit either your

639
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: exposure to that like mental you know, breakdown or your

640
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,239
Speaker 1: ability to talk yourself out of something. And then I'm

641
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: gonna add one more piece onto that, like good hunting partners.

642
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: I'd be lying to say that I'm always like at

643
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: the very top physically or at the very top mentally.

644
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: There are times where you need a hunting partner that's

645
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: just as dedicated to the cause as you, or somebody

646
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: you can you know, pitch ideas off of and and

647
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: at times when maybe I'm not feeling it, they'll pick

648
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: you up. And when they're filing down or out or

649
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: don't want to give it the extra effort, you're like, no,

650
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: we need.

651
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 2: To go up there.

652
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: And at least the group that I run with, like,

653
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: we push each other so hard that you never want

654
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: to let the other guy down. And so it's nice

655
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: to be able to like, now we're going up there,

656
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 1: and you're going with me, whether you want to or not.

657
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm, absolutely. Yeah, picking great partners for that is key.

658
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 3: And if you're ever going on a guided hunt, usually

659
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 3: typically not always, but your guide, you know, that guy

660
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 3: who's waking you up in the morning, getting you going

661
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,719
Speaker 3: in the afternoons, keeping you keeping your head up.

662
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I I didn't realize, and I feel for the

663
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: I understand why we took the two hour naps because

664
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: they need I needed it anyways. But those guys are

665
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: out wrangling hobbled horses and mules at like three in

666
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: the morning, where we're still sleep and then they get

667
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: you up at four thirty and it's by time they're

668
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,479
Speaker 1: done taking care of the horses. Like you guys deserve

669
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: a bigger tip than than I get. That I gave,

670
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: you know, and it was my good buddy, But I'm like, gosh, dang,

671
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: you know, these these cooks are up at three in

672
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: the morning starting your meals or lunches or whatever, and

673
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's it's not not for the

674
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: faint of heart. You better not light, you better not

675
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: need sleep to be able to survive.

676
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,479
Speaker 4: Oh, it's a lot of hard work for sure, late nights,

677
00:30:58,640 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 4: long days.

678
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 3: I mean you'd sneak in a little nap mid day

679
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 3: kind of you know, you want cool, uh, you know,

680
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 3: kind of overcast weather, you know, consistent weather, but you

681
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 3: also kind of hope for really hot weather, so you

682
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 3: can sneak in that two or three hour nap while

683
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 3: the elker yeah, down mid day, whatever it takes.

684
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 4: But it's a lot of hard work.

685
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's it's you don't see too many older

686
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 3: like especially wilderness hunting guides. It's a young man's sport career,

687
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 3: but I wouldn't trade it for the world. Those are

688
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 3: the Those were the times back then.

689
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 4: Man.

690
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, So let's diverge a little bit from

691
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: the clients, and I'm more interested in the elk. The

692
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: differences that maybe lived, you know, thirty miles from anywhere,

693
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: you know, elk that never seen a person compared to

694
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: these elk that live on a place that was pretty

695
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: much designed for their uh, you know, for them, for

696
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: them to for them to flourish, get as big as possible,

697
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: carry the absolute highest carrying capacity you can, versus the

698
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: opposite of just you know, being being in the middle

699
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: of the bob or some remote color out of wildernes

700
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: where they're just given with what's on the ground. Are

701
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: there any major differences when you'd go to hunt those

702
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: elk as far as the elk are concerned, or are

703
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: they different creatures as far as being able to call them,

704
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: pattern them whatnot?

705
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 3: You know, it's hard to say. My original answer just

706
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 3: now is going to be that elk on some of

707
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 3: the private land obviously don't have the pressure as much

708
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 3: as public land, say, whether it's deep in the wilderness

709
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 3: or just your typical national forest trailhead.

710
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 4: But elk on.

711
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 3: Private land don't seem to run away as far now

712
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 3: they're elk, they're skittish. You bump them once, that's probably

713
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 3: your only opportunity. But a lot of times they know

714
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 3: where the border that private and public land is and

715
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 3: they don't want to go to public because last time

716
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 3: they did that, they just got bumped right back on

717
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 3: to private. Even if those ranches are being hunted and

718
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 3: hunted hard, you know, with multiple clients every week, they

719
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 3: still know where the border is and they don't necessarily

720
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 3: want to leave. Now. It's what makes me backtrack that

721
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 3: answer a little bit. Is in the vast open public

722
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 3: land wilderness, what have you You bump an elk and

723
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 3: you're looking at such crazy massive country that you're not

724
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 3: going to ever be able to catch up to that.

725
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 3: Where on a big private ranch, yeah you can, you know,

726
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 3: give it a half a day and then drive your

727
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 3: truck over there and be to the other end of

728
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 3: the ranch where that elk headed, you know, within an

729
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 3: hour or so. So I think just the it's the terrain,

730
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 3: whether it's private or public. If if an elk runs

731
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 3: away from he or it goes over a ridge that

732
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 3: just doesn't look passable to your stamina or your whereabouts,

733
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 3: whether you're on foot, horse or vehicle. That's probably the

734
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 3: biggest difference is just the the terrain for the elk

735
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 3: and for the hunter.

736
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and one thing that you know, being able to hunt.

737
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: I haven't got the hunt. I have hunteds of private land,

738
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: but like the ability to pattern those elk, right, because

739
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: those elk one like, we know they're probably gonna go

740
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: bed here, They're probably gonna come out and feed here,

741
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: versus sometimes up in the mountains, you know, if.

742
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 2: A cougar or a wolf runs through there.

743
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 1: I mean it could happen on public or the private

744
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: chunk as well, but it seems like, you know, the

745
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: private stuff there may be a little more patternable, a

746
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 1: little more predictable, versus up in the mountains. It's like

747
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: they may feed in this section one day and then

748
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: for some reason, the lead cow takes them to a

749
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: different spot the next day to feed, or they're in

750
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: like you know, three or four day rotation, you know,

751
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: versus And one thing that I've heard and maybe you

752
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: can you can you know, solidify this answer. It's like

753
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 1: a lot of times on these ranches, they won't let

754
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: you go hunt them in bed right, because they do

755
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: not want you to disturb them. They don't they want

756
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: that pattern to be the same. You get your one

757
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: shot in the morning, why the wind's right, the bull

758
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 1: goes in there, you're taking the afternoon off.

759
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 2: Versus in the.

760
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 1: Mountains, it's like, you know, everybody on the mountain that

761
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: spotted any olk going into a bedding area are gonna

762
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: get bumped or killed one or the other. It's like

763
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: for the majority of guys, right, they're gonna go in

764
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: there and keep an elk until they either bump them

765
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: or kill them. And so that's one nice thing where

766
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: it's managed a little bit better. And I never fought

767
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 1: anybody for going a little bit harder on public ground

768
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: or mountainous ground, because that's your opportunity, right, But that

769
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,320
Speaker 1: is one thing where I think that private land ranch stuff,

770
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: whereas if you've got rules in place that make sure

771
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: that those elk don't necessarily get ran out of there

772
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: is a pretty good system that their pattern stays the

773
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: same for quite a while.

774
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's very true.

775
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I guide it on two different ranches here

776
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 3: in central Montana. Yeah, the latter one that I've guided on. Yeah,

777
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 3: if you weren't back for breakfast by eleven am, like

778
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 3: if you didn't have an elk on the ground, the

779
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 3: outfitter started getting a little suspicious that you were maybe

780
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 3: hunting a betting zone or something. That was definitely rule

781
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 3: number one was don't hit hunt the betting zones. You

782
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 3: bump an elk out of his bed, he's not coming

783
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 3: back for a while. And that was the last thing

784
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 3: we wanted. We wanted those elk to stay there, to

785
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 3: feel somewhat comfortable in your opportunity. And the more in

786
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 3: the evening was so great, whether we were sitting tree stands,

787
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 3: sitting by wallows, or spot in stock trying to get

788
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 3: be in the right place at the right time. It

789
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 3: was very open country, and of course the elk are

790
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 3: going to come out to those openings in the middle

791
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 3: of the night. And then where they would go in

792
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 3: was the limited betting areas, and those were just yeah,

793
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 3: do not enter or limits. Didn't want to be invited back,

794
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 3: and you wanted to be invited back as a client

795
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:25,919
Speaker 3: or a guide.

796
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 4: It was a cool place to con and I.

797
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: Think that lesson can maybe translate into public right right,

798
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: I mean we do. We talk about hunting betting areas,

799
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: and we talk about like midday magic. You know that

800
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: you can get into, but there is something to be

801
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: taken away, like if you want those elk to continue

802
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: their patterns and do what they've did the day before

803
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: and where you found them, going into their betting area

804
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 1: could could potentially change their patterns if you bump them

805
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: or blow them out of where they think a safe,

806
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: secure spot is. So I always, I mean, this is

807
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 1: a great way to reiterate, like, go in very cautiously,

808
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,800
Speaker 1: whether you're on public, because you know that the guides

809
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 1: and the ranches are running the system for a reason

810
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:05,839
Speaker 1: to make sure those oak continue to do what they've did.

811
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's smart, it's a smart system. Yeah.

812
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 3: So if you got time and you watch one go

813
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 3: into a betting zone, yeah maybe if you don't, you know,

814
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 3: if it's dry and crunchy, leave them be. But if

815
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:18,800
Speaker 3: it's wet, drizzling and you might be able to sneak

816
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 3: in take your boots off, maybe it's worth going in there,

817
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 3: especially if you're limited on time.

818
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 4: But yeah, you gotta that tough decision.

819
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 1: So this this will be a good segue. I'm going

820
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: to ask you and then we're going to talk about

821
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 1: some of the hard You know, it's sometimes hard to

822
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: talk about elk cutting, right because you've been we've been

823
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: doing it for so long. Some of it's just kind

824
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: of ingrained into into our thought process. But is there

825
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: can you define what makes a good uh time.

826
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 2: To go into a betting area?

827
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: Is there is there like a few things you check

828
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: off a checklist where you will go into a betting area,

829
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: or how does that decision come about? Or there's just

830
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: so many factors we can't hardly talk about them.

831
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 3: I don't know a few of the main factors. I'd say,

832
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 3: how many eyeballs just went in there? You know, if

833
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 3: it's a bowl and I don't know more than four

834
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 3: cows that went in there, that's a lot of eyeballs

835
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 3: you're trying to sneak in on unless you can. I

836
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 3: think that your ultimate scenario would be if you're like, say,

837
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 3: across a ravine, and you can see how they're bedded,

838
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 3: exactly where they're at, find yourself a little ambush route.

839
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,959
Speaker 3: You know, you're fairly confident in which way the wind's

840
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 3: blowing in there, then you're set. But man, yeah, the

841
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 3: number of eyeballs, and then also how loud it is,

842
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 3: how crunchy the leaves and the and the pine meals

843
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 3: are going to be, you can always I've taken my

844
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 3: boots off a hundred times trying to sneak in on

845
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 3: an elk, and it's worked a couple of times. I

846
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 3: even took my my breeches off once just so I

847
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 3: didn't have my legs up swiping back and forth.

848
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:45,399
Speaker 4: That time it did not work.

849
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 3: I was caught in the middle of a herd of elk,

850
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 3: running away with my pants down.

851
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 2: Literally.

852
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 3: But man, yeah, eyeballs and the how dry it is. Man,

853
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 3: if you can get in somewhere where you know where

854
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 3: he's at or where your target is at, and if

855
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,720
Speaker 3: it's like drizzling rain, your sense not you know, pushing

856
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 3: around as much, you got a pretty good chance of

857
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 3: getting close anyway.

858
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, now I like it. We've tried to approach a lot,

859
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: but a lot of times we get turned away like

860
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: brush on the entry. We're gonna have to be noisy

861
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: to get in, Like if I've got good elk trails going,

862
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: and like you said, there weren't any satellite bulls.

863
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 2: That's one thing that I almost.

864
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 1: Always abandoned the mission if there's a satellite bul because inevitably,

865
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: and it makes total sense when you think about it,

866
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: that satellite bowl doesn't get to bed with the herd, right,

867
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 1: that herd bowl will, and that satellite bowl almost always

868
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,800
Speaker 1: gets kicked downwind of that. And so when we're approaching

869
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: to be good elk hunters, we're gonna come in with

870
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: the wind in our face. So tho'se olk can't smells.

871
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:45,879
Speaker 1: But guess what elk you run into about one hundred

872
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: and fifty yards out, you run into that damn satellite bowl.

873
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 1: Almost every time we've tried to approach that way. And

874
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: so if we know there are a bunch of satellite

875
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: bowls around, it's it's proced at your own risk. Like

876
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: how late in the hunt is it? How quick you

877
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: need to try to make something happen if you've got

878
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: a lot of time left, we usually just leave it alone.

879
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, this is a great segue into what we

880
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 1: We kind of talked about this a little bit before

881
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 1: we started recording. We talk about elk hunting, and all

882
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 1: of these are like very cookie cutter examples, Right, we

883
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: say the winds doing this, or the elk are doing this,

884
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: But a lot of times like what's the moon doing?

885
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: Has it rained for the last week? Are the elk running?

886
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 1: Are there cows and heat? How big are the herds?

887
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: How many satellite bowls? Like all of these things boil

888
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: in to our answers, and it makes it talking about

889
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 1: archery elk hunting. It makes it difficult. And I think

890
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: that's why we we a lot of times just talk

891
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: about our system. Right, It's easier for me to talk

892
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,479
Speaker 1: about the system, But then all of these variables still

893
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 1: come into play. And one thing I got I got

894
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: a question the other to day, is is what makes

895
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 1: a good elk hunter? Or in your opinion? We were

896
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: talking about it around a campfire on the elk hunt

897
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 1: that I was just on and I kind of came

898
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: up with this is is I think most successful elk

899
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: hunters have a system that they use, they stick to

900
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: it for most part of the hunt. But the one

901
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 1: thing I've found out is if you look at all

902
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 1: the successful elk hunters, their systems aren't necessarily always similar.

903
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: And so I was trying to boil that down, like

904
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:29,439
Speaker 1: how does all that work, and so what I've really

905
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: kind of said is is rather than try to play

906
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: every variable all the time, like just stick with a

907
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 1: you know, if you're a if you're a caller, call

908
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: if you're a spot in stocker spot, if you're what

909
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: have you found corey? As far as like what makes

910
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 1: somebody successful year in and year out?

911
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 2: You know you you are.

912
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:48,760
Speaker 1: Typically always able to kill your elk or help buddies

913
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 1: kill their elk fill their tags in your opinion, like

914
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 1: what makes a good elk hunter and consistent?

915
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 3: Well, I brought it up earlier. I think just the

916
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 3: both is a g mental stamina. Odds are it's not

917
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,399
Speaker 3: going to happen right away or even where your plan

918
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 3: A or even B spots are going to be. So

919
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 3: being able to stay with it mentally and physically obviously

920
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 3: and grind it out, don't just stopping your plan A

921
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 3: or B spot, say some other folks are there. There's

922
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 3: just not elk happening. It feels like the rut hasn't started,

923
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 3: or it feels like it could be a little late.

924
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 3: Maybe switch it up, be a little bit more open

925
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 3: to try a new area, whether that means driving somewhere

926
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 3: or having a hike, move camp. I think just kind

927
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 3: of keeping it open minded, you know, not sticking, not

928
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 3: having the tunnel vision for one plan. You know, having

929
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 3: a great plan A, plan B is important, but man

930
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 3: have a X, Y and Z plan too. Hopefully you

931
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,720
Speaker 3: give you give yourself more than just a weekend. Obviously

932
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 3: you can get out every weekend of the season, that's great,

933
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,359
Speaker 3: but give yourself five to ten days for an area

934
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 3: and don't assume that it's all going to happen right

935
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 3: then and there. So I think just being open minded

936
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 3: and then having that mental and physical stamina to last

937
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 3: you're you know, allotted hunt window is really important and

938
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 3: that's something that I've noticed I've been able to do.

939
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 3: Was younger, it was frustrating not having Plan A or BG, right,

940
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,720
Speaker 3: but just being you know, knowing that you can't control

941
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 3: mother nature and having a plan X and Y in

942
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 3: your back pocket is super important and eventually it's going

943
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 3: to work out for you. Maybe not with meating the freezer,

944
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 3: but at least have a heck of a hunt yep.

945
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 1: And that's one thing we learned as we started. You know,

946
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 1: I grew up industrial timberlands, hunting around home. You packed

947
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: your lunch for the days I started to venture out

948
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 1: and hunt what I'd consider more mountainous, more adventurous type

949
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 1: elk hunting. You know, we would go in like, well,

950
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 1: how are we going to carry all of our food?

951
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 1: You know, we hadn't had it dialed in, so we

952
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: would pack ten days of food into one camp six

953
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: miles in. Well, guess what that did? That locked me

954
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: into an area for the entire time. And it's like, well,

955
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: then you were based seeing your stay based on what

956
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 1: your food's already all in here, or you know, this

957
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: is what we had planned on doing for ten days

958
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: versus where I'm at now, where I packed maybe a

959
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 1: half a day's food, I can live off of it

960
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: for two days, and if there aren't elk there in

961
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 1: that half a day, I know I'm gonna be back

962
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: at the truck, going to a different trailhead or a

963
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: different area.

964
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 2: You know.

965
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: And it sounds so cliche, and we say it over

966
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: and over, but you need to be able to like

967
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,280
Speaker 1: pull the plug and not be married to an area

968
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 1: or a spot because it looks good on on X,

969
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 1: it looks good on Google Earth, it looks good wherever.

970
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: If there aren't elk there on that year. So if

971
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: I can't go into a spot and find very fresh rubs,

972
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:38,439
Speaker 1: very fresh signed elk scat you know whatever, like, I'm out.

973
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,319
Speaker 1: And especially if you can't add a live elk to

974
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: those tracks, you know, a bugle or spot them with

975
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: your glasses, I'm out of there. And one thing, you know,

976
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: I think people overlook is like, well it looks kind

977
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 1: of fresh, like well that once that elk crap or track,

978
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: you know, if it hasn't rained or whatnot and washed

979
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: it out, Like those elk could have been there two

980
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: weeks ago and in the month of September.

981
00:44:58,680 --> 00:44:59,359
Speaker 2: Those things are moving.

982
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: If they got bump out of there, they might have

983
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 1: won a drainage over and never came back. Like you

984
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 1: just might be in the wrong spot. So yeah, I

985
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 1: feel that being willing to move, get out of a spot,

986
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 1: go try plans, you know, be through Z or whatever

987
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: it needs to be, like, have the ability to open

988
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 1: up on X or whatever mapping software you use. Say, oh,

989
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 1: I think this spot might be good. It's going to

990
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 1: take me, you know, an hour and a half hike

991
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 1: in this three miles is where I want to be in.

992
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 1: Go try it out that night. You know, one thing

993
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: we talk about is if you need to if you

994
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: need the third part of the day, like go locate

995
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 1: at night time, like do whatever you gotta do. But

996
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: you need to find some elk and just keep moving zones.

997
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:41,320
Speaker 3: Mm hmm, yeah, even if it means changing mountain ranges.

998
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 3: You know, at least where elk tend to live in

999
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 3: the Rocky Mountain West. You got a lot of options

1000
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 3: and any you know, unless you have a trophy unit

1001
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 3: tag where you're restricted to a certain zone, you're just

1002
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 3: carrying a general elk tag in your pocket. Man, you

1003
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,399
Speaker 3: got a lot of country to explore, so go check

1004
00:45:58,440 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 3: something new out. You might have had a great spot

1005
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 3: that was great last year, was great the year before,

1006
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,720
Speaker 3: historically a great zone. They're not there this year. Switch

1007
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 3: it up or or also stick to it. You know,

1008
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 3: if it's been a good spot, they might just not

1009
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 3: be in there yet.

1010
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 4: You know.

1011
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 3: It's I've been amazed by the number of times where

1012
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 3: I've given up on a spot. Well, not one hundred

1013
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 3: percent given up, but like, man, tomorrow, I'm leaving if

1014
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 3: I don't see anything in the morning, and sure enough

1015
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 3: a huge hurd al moved in overnight and there they are.

1016
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 3: So it's tough what to say, you know, flip a

1017
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 3: coin to make a decision, because it's it's a lot

1018
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 3: of skill, but man, there's a lot of luck involved.

1019
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 4: Don't forget that for sure.

1020
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: So we're recording this on September fifth. We both just

1021
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 1: came off of you know, you got the hunt a

1022
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 1: little bit over Labor Day weekend. I just came off

1023
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: of a hunt Labor Day weekend.

1024
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 2: And one or.

1025
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 1: Actually two of the things we were dealing with on

1026
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:50,879
Speaker 1: for both of us is the moon.

1027
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 2: We're coming up.

1028
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 1: We were out a full moon the on Thursday, I believe,

1029
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: which was August thirty first, and.

1030
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:57,359
Speaker 2: Then we rolled in.

1031
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: We got a bunch of weather Thursday, Friday, and then

1032
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 1: coming from Washington, it hit you guys, what Saturday, Sunday?

1033
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, Monday.

1034
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you guys got the weather after us. So

1035
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,280
Speaker 1: next thing I want to talk about is your opinion

1036
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:13,800
Speaker 1: on does the moon matter and how that affects it versus.

1037
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: And then we'll jump into the rain in that system

1038
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 1: that rolled through.

1039
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:20,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't hunt during a full moon. Stay home,

1040
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 3: elk aren't even out out in the woods.

1041
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 4: I don't know where they go.

1042
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 3: But no, I'm totally kidding. I'm sure it affects them.

1043
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 3: And I've always had this theory that whenever like the second, third,

1044
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,479
Speaker 3: fourth week of September lines up with a full moon,

1045
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 3: that's going to be kind of towards the peak rut,

1046
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 3: the elk get to do their dance during the evening

1047
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 3: twilight hours while they can see a little bit better,

1048
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 3: they get to roam a little bit more. I don't

1049
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 3: know if that theory is true, has any any truth

1050
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 3: to it or not, but man, when elk are fired up,

1051
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 3: they're fired up. And if it's the third week September wherever,

1052
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 3: you know kind of the peak time might be for

1053
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,439
Speaker 3: your region, whether it's a full moon or a new moon,

1054
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 3: I don't think it matters. Honestly, I haven't noticed anything.

1055
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 3: I've killed elk on a full moon and I've killed

1056
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 3: elk on a new moon.

1057
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 4: It's hard to tell what it is.

1058
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 3: I know it's easier to sleep with a new moon

1059
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 3: because it kind of keeps you up at night with

1060
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 3: it's full blasting in your eyeballs.

1061
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 4: But yeah, I don't know.

1062
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 3: Fourteen years a guide, in twenty plus years of just

1063
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 3: hunting myself, I haven't noticed. Yeah, at least in September

1064
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 3: a difference with the moon.

1065
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 1: I'm I'm right there with you, And I just kind

1066
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: of sum it all up is there's only so many

1067
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 1: days in September. I'm going to be out there as

1068
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 1: much as possible. One the one thing that throws a

1069
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,320
Speaker 1: little bit of a of a wrench in my system

1070
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 1: is maybe somebody contacts me with I only got one

1071
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: week to hunt? And then do you put them around

1072
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,800
Speaker 1: the moon? I usually don't. I still say what do

1073
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 1: you after? Like do you want post? Like do you

1074
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 1: want peak of the rut? Then you have to be

1075
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: there on this week, regardless of whether the moon's are

1076
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:54,800
Speaker 1: or not. That's when you're going to get your most action,

1077
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: you're most bugling. And so yeah, I don't pay a

1078
00:48:58,120 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: whole lot of attention to the moon. And this is

1079
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: going to everybody, how big of a nerd I am.

1080
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: I had went back, I'd looked at a bunch of

1081
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 1: trail cameras and then like timed it with what the

1082
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:08,760
Speaker 1: moon was on that and what time they were showing

1083
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:12,760
Speaker 1: up at a specific wallow, And it didn't really matter

1084
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 1: when the full moon was there, they showed up a

1085
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: little bit later, they didn't They weren't coming in the daylight,

1086
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: and they left a little bit earlier, but it really

1087
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 1: didn't affect things through the end of August into like

1088
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 1: the middle of September, I think, is when we ran

1089
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: that cam and then I had just looked at like

1090
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 1: there for a stretch of like the ten bulls I

1091
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:32,720
Speaker 1: had killed that was like from I don't even remember

1092
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 1: two thousand and five to twenty fifteen, and I had

1093
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: looked at all the bulls that I had killed, and

1094
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 1: almost all of them were within four or five days

1095
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 1: of a full moon. It's just how it landed, how

1096
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 1: it had added up, and you know, someone were on

1097
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 1: the front side. Some people, you know, the moon. The

1098
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 1: guys that claimed the moon really matters always say that

1099
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 1: you want to be on the back side of the

1100
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:53,879
Speaker 1: full moon, you know, tailing off. But it was five

1101
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 1: days before or five days after. It didn't really seem

1102
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: to matter. There was no correlation with with when I

1103
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: killed and what the moon was doing.

1104
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 3: Interesting, well, I know you brought it up that this

1105
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 3: was going to be our next topic, so this is

1106
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 3: kind of segues. But I certainly think weather has more

1107
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:12,399
Speaker 3: drastic involvement with elk Habits versus the moon.

1108
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what's your opinion on like a rain system

1109
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 1: or a snow system that moves in. Let's say, you

1110
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 1: know it's it's been decent weather, rain moves in in

1111
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: your opinion or what have you seen that do to

1112
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 1: the elk or the rut Man.

1113
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 3: What I've seen consistent, whether whether it's rain or dry

1114
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:36,479
Speaker 3: is key. So you know, having a week of rain,

1115
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 3: they're still going to do their thing. But having a

1116
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 3: week of dry and then all of a sudden a

1117
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 3: rainstorm comes in. I've certainly noticed it. It's shut down,

1118
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:45,840
Speaker 3: or at least it feels like it shuts down. I

1119
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:51,280
Speaker 3: always assume that estrous smell of cows breeding, that scent

1120
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 3: in the air just kind of gets locked down with

1121
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,800
Speaker 3: that moisture in the air, is what I've always assumed.

1122
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 3: But man, I've chased elk that have bugled all day

1123
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:02,879
Speaker 3: long and a the rain that turned to snowstorm. Two

1124
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 3: bowls dueling it out for about thirty or forty cows

1125
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 3: all day. Never been able to get close enough to

1126
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 3: the bulls. Could have shot a few of the cows

1127
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 3: many times, but that didn't affect them one bit. And

1128
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:16,359
Speaker 3: it was a snow rainstorm that came in after some

1129
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,399
Speaker 3: eighty degree heat and then it was the next day.

1130
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 4: So I've kind of seen it all.

1131
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 3: But it does seem like the rain that kind of

1132
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 3: comes out of nowhere and breaks up a dry week

1133
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 3: at least in September. You know, we're still dealing with

1134
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 3: some warmer tempts right now versus say later October November.

1135
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 3: That it does affect them, whether they just don't dance

1136
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:41,399
Speaker 3: in the rain or the scent or something. But it's

1137
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 3: still worth going out, no doubt, yep.

1138
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: And I've my my experience is almost mirrored years that

1139
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:51,399
Speaker 1: it's not so much the consistent rain or the consistent sun,

1140
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,759
Speaker 1: but it's a change, and within like three days of

1141
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: that change, you know, it's on the.

1142
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 2: Tail tail end of it.

1143
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,280
Speaker 1: So for instance, we haven't had rain for ninety plus

1144
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 1: days or something like that. We were getting ready to

1145
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:06,479
Speaker 1: go hunting, and Thursday we get that downpour before we leave,

1146
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 1: and it really quieted things down to compared to what

1147
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 1: everybody said that the elk were doing that unit, and

1148
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,319
Speaker 1: they slowly started picking back up as the weather was

1149
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 1: getting nice again. And the same thing I think if

1150
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: it's been raining for you know, five six, seven days,

1151
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:20,800
Speaker 1: the elk are getting used to it, and all of

1152
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 1: a sudden you get a high pressure moveing and it

1153
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:24,439
Speaker 1: gets nice. It's like, all right, it takes a couple

1154
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 1: more days for things to like get back in the

1155
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: in the normal. And you know, so we've had, you know,

1156
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 1: up in the high country, we've got snow a little bit,

1157
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: and it doesn't it seems to be more of like

1158
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 1: middle ground. It doesn't seem to for some reason snap

1159
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 1: them in or out as much as rain versus sun.

1160
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,720
Speaker 1: But that just maybe my limited experience in the high country,

1161
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:44,759
Speaker 1: but it seems like the rut just kind of continues on,

1162
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 1: at least in the snow. I don't know why or

1163
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:49,439
Speaker 1: how come, but just from my experience, the snow didn't

1164
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 1: seem to affect them as much as the rain.

1165
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I know.

1166
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:55,880
Speaker 3: And you can't pick the dates necessarily, Excuse me. You

1167
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 3: can't pick the weather of a hunt that you've had

1168
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 3: planned for weeks, months, or years even. But you know,

1169
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 3: an ideal weather condition would be just like consistent sixty

1170
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 3: or seventies, maybe a little chance of rain here or there.

1171
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:10,800
Speaker 3: But you know, if you're if you're crossing your fingers

1172
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 3: for weather, just hope for consistency for sure.

1173
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 1: Yep, yeah, I like that overcast with a little you know,

1174
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:21,760
Speaker 1: fifty percent cloud cover good, you know, mid mid tamp's

1175
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 1: cool in the morning, crisp in the morning, and then

1176
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 1: you know, maybe heat up to six or seventy in

1177
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: the afternoon. Like that's that's my favorite. The other thing

1178
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 1: I hate systems coming in and out is because it

1179
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: screws with your wind on both ends of it, right

1180
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: is you get these pushes. Now all of a sudden,

1181
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 1: you're not just dealing with the local thermals. Uh, You're

1182
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: now dealing with these crazy swirlling winds. It's just a

1183
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 1: headache to deal with.

1184
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 3: And that's possible. You got to wonder if that affects

1185
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 3: the elk, you know, their their habits. They get a

1186
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 3: little nervous when they're so used to that southwest wind,

1187
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 3: at least here in Montana prevailing winds southwest, and then

1188
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 3: all of a sudden it's out of the northeast. They're like, oh,

1189
00:53:57,800 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 3: I got to you know, change my location where I'm

1190
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:01,240
Speaker 3: going to feel comfortable during.

1191
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 4: The day, not going to talk as much.

1192
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,240
Speaker 3: It must affect them as well, So yeah, you definitely

1193
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 3: got to change up your tactics.

1194
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, not that we need to think like

1195
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 1: an elk, but we've all watched them in the morning.

1196
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: They go from their feed to their bed, and then

1197
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 1: they bed down, and then they go from their bed

1198
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 1: to their feed. Well, one thing that I didn't think

1199
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 1: about a whole lot is a lot of times they

1200
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 1: let that wind switch and they're feeding with whatever predator

1201
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 1: would be in front of them. They're feeding out into

1202
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 1: that wind, right, and they're doing it. They're not dumb.

1203
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 1: They're they're always smelling what's ahead of them, whether their

1204
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 1: eyes can pick it up or not. But they typically

1205
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:39,400
Speaker 1: will will feed with the wind in their face. That

1206
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,279
Speaker 1: way they can smell any danger that they're walking into. Well,

1207
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 1: like you had just mentioned, you switch the wind on

1208
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 1: them one hundred and eighty degrees. Well, now that betting

1209
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: and feeding area connection is like broken up, right, But

1210
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 1: they can't do that. They've got to go to a

1211
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: different feeding betting area combo or connection, and so it

1212
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 1: really and maybe that's why, maybe that's why it really

1213
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:01,880
Speaker 1: kind of throws their pattern off. But yeah, I've noticed

1214
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 1: that you know, wind switches, or you've hunted an area

1215
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 1: for two or three days, you've about got it figured out,

1216
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, some weather moves in and

1217
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 1: your plan that you'd been building is completely thrown out

1218
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 1: the window. You can't do it anymore because the winds

1219
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 1: goofy and they're uncomfortable and they've changed your pattern.

1220
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1221
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 4: Well, it's question as old as time.

1222
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 3: Every elk that I try and ask, or at least

1223
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 3: that I try and get close enough to ask the question,

1224
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 3: they seem to be dead on the ground, so I

1225
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 3: never get the chance to ask them. But one of

1226
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 3: these days, maybe I'll get to whisper in an elk's

1227
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 3: here and ask them what's up with their habits?

1228
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:36,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wish I could figure all that out.

1229
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: I'd be a lot better elk hunter, I think, than

1230
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 1: just taking a guess at all this stuff or what's

1231
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:42,439
Speaker 1: worked one time but then it doesn't work the next

1232
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:46,280
Speaker 1: twenty times. That's the only thing that's like a given

1233
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 1: when it comes to elk hunting is that it's never

1234
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 1: going to be the same from time to time, scenario

1235
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 1: to scenario. I feel like you can have all the

1236
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 1: factors exactly the same on scenario a versus being the

1237
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,760
Speaker 1: results will be different just because of that elk's personality

1238
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 1: or or something that that elk just isn't going to

1239
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:05,919
Speaker 1: do the same thing. And that's I mean, I don't

1240
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 1: claim to know, but I feel that there's some of

1241
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 1: that that goes on where one bowl might be full

1242
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 1: of piss and vinegar that you're trying to hunt, and

1243
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 1: one bowl might just want to avoid any confrontation. And

1244
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 1: one thing us as elk hunters need to figure out

1245
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 1: is how do you deal with each one based on

1246
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:22,280
Speaker 1: the way they be agle, the way they react to calling,

1247
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 1: the way they react by just watching them through binos.

1248
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 1: And that's some more of this stuff we talked about earlier,

1249
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 1: which I kind of stumbled through on how to describe it,

1250
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:32,439
Speaker 1: is that all of these little tips and tactics get

1251
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:35,800
Speaker 1: like brought into the decisions, like that bull's super hesitant,

1252
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:37,360
Speaker 1: or you see a bowl over there, like trying to

1253
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 1: rip a satellite's head off. Anytime it gets within a

1254
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 1: couple hundred yards, you're like, well that's a bowl I

1255
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 1: can challenge, you know, or get close to. It just

1256
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 1: seems pissed versus you know, one that doesn't really care

1257
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 1: for satellites. I don't know, all that stuff matters and

1258
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:52,279
Speaker 1: should affect like your next move.

1259
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 4: When you're out there, el cutting keeps you on your

1260
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 4: toes for sure.

1261
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:57,240
Speaker 2: Yep, yep.

1262
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 1: So well, I really appreciate having you on here, Corey.

1263
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 1: I know you're you're getting ready to take off for

1264
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 1: for the month of September and I've got a got

1265
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:07,839
Speaker 1: a hunt coming up. So uh, the best of luck,

1266
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:10,359
Speaker 1: And like I said, really appreciate you coming on here

1267
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 1: and talking oak cunning here.

1268
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:14,719
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. Yeah, I'm excited, man, We'll be

1269
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 3: in touch. Best luck to you. I know you got

1270
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 3: some fun trips planned or one big epic trick plan

1271
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 3: for sure. I can't wait to hear how it goes.

1272
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, we'll take care. We'll catch up to

1273
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 1: you on the backside of hunting season.

1274
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 4: Sounds good, Jason. Thanks again.

1275
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 3: H