Speaker 1: Hi, get everybody.
Speaker 2: I'm Dan Hoard and thanks for downloading the Bengals Booth
Speaker 2: podcast The Who Can It Be? Now addition, as Dave
Speaker 2: Lapham joins me for one of the most downloaded episodes
Speaker 2: of this podcast every year, featuring our final pre draft
Speaker 2: discussion and lapse prediction for who the Bengals will select
Speaker 2: at number eighteen. The Bengals Booth Podcast is brought to
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Speaker 2: Now let's get to football. My broadcast partner, Dave Lapham,
Speaker 2: has been remarkably accurate over the years in predicting who
Speaker 2: the Bengals would select with their first round draft pick.
Speaker 2: In twenty twelve, when many experts said it would be
Speaker 2: offensive lineman David di Castro, lap correctly said it would
Speaker 2: be another O lineman, Kevin Zeitler. In twenty thirteen, despite
Speaker 2: already having two time Pro Bowl tight end Jermaine Gresham
Speaker 2: on the roster, lapp correctly predicted that the Bengals would
Speaker 2: select Tyler Eifert. He nailed the John Ross pick in
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, and the Bengals already had aj Green and
Speaker 2: Tyler Boyd, And there have been other years where even
Speaker 2: if he didn't get his final prediction right, it was
Speaker 2: because that player was already gone, and Lapp told us
Speaker 2: who they would likely take if that happened. So it's
Speaker 2: time for this year's pre draft Extravaganza featuring an in
Speaker 2: depth discussion of this year's class, our first round predictions,
Speaker 2: and your ask lap questions.
Speaker 1: We are now.
Speaker 2: Joined by the sixty first pick in the nineteen seventy
Speaker 2: four NFL draft, Syracuse offensive lineman Dave Lapham. That draft
Speaker 2: took place in January back then, seventeen round. There were
Speaker 2: seven Hall of famers, five of them went to the
Speaker 2: Pittsburgh Steelers. I was looking at the Pro Football Reference database.
Speaker 2: They have a system that measures everybody's proximate value. You
Speaker 2: were tied for eighteenth in the nineteen seventy four draft
Speaker 2: class for most overall career value, actually ahead of Hall
Speaker 2: of Fame tight end Dave Casper, So congratulations on that.
Speaker 2: Is it a point of pride though, to have been
Speaker 2: part of a draft class that generated so many great players?
Speaker 3: It really really was.
Speaker 4: And you'll get to be friends with Mike Webster in particular,
Speaker 4: and Dave Casper is another one. We played in quite
Speaker 4: a few of the All Star Games, and I was
Speaker 4: fortunate enough back then the Hula Bowl and Senior Bowl
Speaker 4: had been on the same weekend that year for the
Speaker 4: first time it wasn't, so I made the circuit. I
Speaker 4: went Blue Gray, East West, Hula Bowl, Senior Bowl. I
Speaker 4: was out of the cues for six weeks. Man, it
Speaker 4: was unbelievable, and we swept them one, all four of them.
Speaker 4: So it was a great All Star Game run. And
Speaker 4: Mad made friends with, you know, a lot of a
Speaker 4: lot of really good guys, Webster being one of them,
Speaker 4: Casper another, and you know, worked out against it at
Speaker 4: practices and or games against guys including two tall Jones
Speaker 4: who was the first pick of the draft, and I
Speaker 4: remember past protected against him, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 4: the circle of people got closer and it got bigger,
Speaker 4: and you see owners, you know, back then was owners
Speaker 4: and general managers. And because the it was just a
Speaker 4: sixteen millimeter film is what everybody would get. There were
Speaker 4: no cell phones, it wasn't anything like that. So it
Speaker 4: was like, I hope this rep goes well, this could
Speaker 4: have a lot riding on it.
Speaker 3: Right here. It was. It was an interesting time, but
Speaker 3: a fun time.
Speaker 2: The then Houston Oilers had the number one overall pick
Speaker 2: in that draft. They traded it to the Cowboys, along
Speaker 2: with the first pick in the third round for a
Speaker 2: couple of vets.
Speaker 1: Dallas got too tall.
Speaker 2: Jones, as you mentioned, the number one overall pick and
Speaker 2: the first quarterback taken in your draft, Danny White, who
Speaker 2: was their starter for like ten years or something like that.
Speaker 2: That's why Dallas was so good for so long. They
Speaker 2: often swindled teams in the draft.
Speaker 3: They really did. I mean they they took.
Speaker 4: It was a science to them, long before it was
Speaker 4: a science to everybody else. They just they were more
Speaker 4: than a step ahead of everybody. They were, I think,
Speaker 4: a good job ahead everybody back in the day. I
Speaker 4: mean Gil Brandt was way ahead of his time. He
Speaker 4: was lapping people, you know, and that guy I can
Speaker 4: remember vividly at every All Star Game he was there.
Speaker 4: It was him, you know, making contact with people, looking
Speaker 4: right in the eye, shaking your hand. I'm Gil brand
Speaker 4: Dallas Cowboys. We think this and just give you really
Speaker 4: good information that none of the other people weren't even
Speaker 4: thinking about talking about. Was he was way ahead of
Speaker 4: his time.
Speaker 1: All right, let's turn to this year's draft. Every draft
Speaker 1: guru says it is a historically good group for offensive linemen.
Speaker 2: Why what is it about this class that jumps out
Speaker 2: on tape.
Speaker 4: Boy at the offensive tackle position? Is just their behemoths.
Speaker 4: I mean, it is unbelievable. If you're not six six
Speaker 4: to six eight, three hundred and twenty five pounds to
Speaker 4: three hundred and fifty pounds, you ain't making the club,
Speaker 4: you know. And everybody's hand is you know, from the
Speaker 4: tip of the pinky to the tip of the thumb
Speaker 4: eleven plus inches, almost a ruler. You know, they can
Speaker 4: almost palm a ruler. And their wingspan from you know,
Speaker 4: fingertip to fingertip when you put your hands out to
Speaker 4: the side, it's over seven feet, you know, seven feet
Speaker 4: seven foot two. So it's it's their arms are thirty
Speaker 4: five thirty six plus inches.
Speaker 3: They are big, long.
Speaker 4: Strong, athletic enough to you know, they're bending at the knees,
Speaker 4: not at the waist. Their their their hand placement with
Speaker 4: those big muckers, and the strength in their hands is phenomenal.
Speaker 4: I mean, I watched some of these guys just control
Speaker 4: people with their hands. It's it's incredible to watch the
Speaker 4: strength that they have, and they can move. I mean
Speaker 4: some of them have a little bit more problem redirected
Speaker 4: inside than others, but almost all of them handle the
Speaker 4: outside stuff, you know, very fluidly. So it's a it's
Speaker 4: a group where you know, they are I think six
Speaker 4: or seven offensive tackles that could be drafted in the
Speaker 4: first round and all they're all worthy. And that's the
Speaker 4: thing I think that's impressive about this draft overall, Dan.
Speaker 4: I mean, there have been drafts here recently where saying
Speaker 4: that's not even sixteen first round picks, not even half
Speaker 4: the draft, maybe twenty, you know, in another draft. Now,
Speaker 4: I think this draft is like there will be guys
Speaker 4: that go in the second round where you could make
Speaker 4: a case, you know, really that guy could be for
Speaker 4: he's the first round talent.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: Now this draft, they're able to fill up the first round.
Speaker 4: And I think overall, in a lot of rounds, there
Speaker 4: is quite a bit of depth. I mean, it's a
Speaker 4: really good draft, and there's good players, and there's depth
Speaker 4: of player in most rows.
Speaker 2: I looked at numerous draft experts big boards to see
Speaker 2: how they rank these offensive linemen, and there's a website
Speaker 2: out there that looks at hundreds of big boards and
Speaker 2: thousands of mock drafts to compile a consensus. Here is
Speaker 2: the consensus ranking of the top offensive lineman. Joe Alt
Speaker 2: Notre Dame number one, Olufashin UPenn State, number two, Talisa
Speaker 2: Fluaga Oregon State number three, Troy fa Utanu Washington number four,
Speaker 2: JC Latham Alabama number five, Amarius Mims Georgia number six.
Speaker 2: At least one of those guys is going to be
Speaker 2: there at number eighteen. And who knows, if five or
Speaker 2: six quarterbacks get taken before the Bengals are on the clock,
Speaker 2: maybe two or three of.
Speaker 1: Those guys are available.
Speaker 2: Who's Dave Lapham's dream offensive lineman? And of those six guys,
Speaker 2: are there any red flags?
Speaker 4: I think that in my mind, I've kind of liked
Speaker 4: JC Latham for a while, and I saw where oh boy,
Speaker 4: you know, he's not going to be there, and then
Speaker 4: oh man, he is going to be there. You know,
Speaker 4: it's the mock drafts, so just kind of guys move
Speaker 4: up move down a little bit based on whatever. But
Speaker 4: but I watched I watched that guy, and he seems
Speaker 4: to just cover people up and he is h He's
Speaker 4: a beast in the running game. He's a very very
Speaker 4: solid past protector. I did a podcast with the Orlando
Speaker 4: Brown a bit of go and and that's who he
Speaker 4: had targeted. Like early on he felt like jac Latham
Speaker 4: was a plug and play guy. I had the same opinion.
Speaker 4: So I was like, yeah, that's I can see why
Speaker 4: you're you're thinking that way.
Speaker 3: I mean, he is. He's just so big everywhere.
Speaker 4: And you know, you play at Alabama, you're playing in
Speaker 4: the SEC, you're playing against the good ones, and I
Speaker 4: mean you're always going to find a game or a
Speaker 4: series or a half in a game. It was like,
Speaker 4: what's that all about? Well, I mean you that's one
Speaker 4: microcosm of a brilliant career. Everybody has bad series of
Speaker 4: games or bad whatever, unless you're like Anthony Munos or
Speaker 4: something like that. But I don't even think lost a
Speaker 4: rep in practice, never mind the game. But you know,
Speaker 4: and I think I think that that Nims is another one.
Speaker 4: I think if Latham's gone, I'd be okay with Mims.
Speaker 4: And people are like, ah, he's only you know, started
Speaker 4: eight games. He's got only eight hundred snaps under his belt.
Speaker 4: Look at Munhos, I keep looking back to that. If
Speaker 4: he's got traits, and I mean if if you were
Speaker 4: in an offensive lineman laboratory putting in all your ingredients,
Speaker 4: that guy would pop out of the beaker man. I
Speaker 4: mean he is, like, he's big where you need to
Speaker 4: be big, you know, not trim, but athletic where you
Speaker 4: need to be athletic.
Speaker 3: I mean he is. He's a freakazoid. He really is.
Speaker 4: And I would not be disappointed if he were the
Speaker 4: eighteenth pick for the Bengals. I do think that this
Speaker 4: draft they were if they if they came to dress
Speaker 4: offensive tackle, wide receiver, nose tackle, interior, defensive tackle, zero technique,
Speaker 4: one technique, good guy, and he can pass rush. That's
Speaker 4: a plus. In corner, they can address those four positions.
Speaker 4: Dan in the first three rounds where they have four picks,
Speaker 4: if they put the nail on the head on those four,
Speaker 4: the rest is gravy. I'm like, okay, the rest of
Speaker 4: the ten picks. Utilize them to make sure you move
Speaker 4: up to get who you really want. If the guy's
Speaker 4: there and he's only like two or three picks away,
Speaker 4: don't roll the dice, you know, go ahead and use
Speaker 4: some of them. Keep a seventh round pick, though, for
Speaker 4: I don't know a special teams guy or a guy
Speaker 4: that boys he.
Speaker 3: Slide and I can't believe that.
Speaker 4: I definitely want to pursue him as a college free agent,
Speaker 4: but there's going to be a bunch of other people
Speaker 4: that's going to get a lot of me have a
Speaker 4: seventh round pick to grab a guy like that, you know,
Speaker 4: but I don't think get rid of all those late picks.
Speaker 4: But if you need to move up in the second
Speaker 4: or third round, you know that they put themselves in
Speaker 4: good shape with what they did in free agency, and
Speaker 4: you know they're, like we've talked about eighteenth, they're going
Speaker 4: to have good players available to them. But if their
Speaker 4: board dictates, I would like to move up a couple
Speaker 4: of three spots here to have the flexibility and the
Speaker 4: ammunition to do that. You know, I think is a
Speaker 4: I think is a good thing. I think they're going
Speaker 4: to come out with four really good players in the
Speaker 4: top one hundred that they've got those those draft picks,
Speaker 4: and you know, I'm not saying, you know that the
Speaker 4: rest of the draft is a waste. It's gravy. It's
Speaker 4: it's gravy in my mind. Then you double down. You know, Okay,
Speaker 4: another offensive lineman, another wide receiver. I mean you look
Speaker 4: at the wide receiver position, accumulation of of of you know,
Speaker 4: draft potentials and so forth. There's forty or more players draftable,
Speaker 4: forty more players at cornerback draftable makes sense. It's that's
Speaker 4: the position that's National Football League. I mean, there's a need,
Speaker 4: but there's an abundance to address the need at wide
Speaker 4: receiver and corner and you know, it's it's not the
Speaker 4: least a bit surprising. At the offensive tackle position. I mean, heck,
Speaker 4: there are twenty six offensive tackles potentially draftable. You know,
Speaker 4: but when you look at where these draft picks fall,
Speaker 4: like with the offensive tackles we're talking about first round,
Speaker 4: is there's not a good number of guys again until
Speaker 4: the fourth round and then in the seventh round. You know,
Speaker 4: what do you think, Okay, defensive tackle, there's one or
Speaker 4: two guys. I think in the defensive tackle position, there
Speaker 4: are going to be more drafted in this draft than
Speaker 4: there have been in prior drafts in terms of number,
Speaker 4: but not top end. But you know, a guy or
Speaker 4: two maybe in the first round, but in the seventh
Speaker 4: round going to have a half a dozen of more
Speaker 4: in the second round where the Bengals might target, there's
Speaker 4: going to be a half a dozen or more.
Speaker 3: You know, it's like that.
Speaker 4: I think I think this draft could potentially, you know,
Speaker 4: sift out in a pretty decent form.
Speaker 3: The for the Cincinnati Bengals.
Speaker 4: I do think they address the offensive positions first. If
Speaker 4: push comes to show, it's more of an offensive draft
Speaker 4: to me than a defensive draft. But you know a
Speaker 4: lot of people say, well that's the case. You know,
Speaker 4: wait longer and address your offense. Take the better defensive
Speaker 4: playerville And I wouldn't mind that either. But I think
Speaker 4: there's more depth in the offensive tackle and wide receiver
Speaker 4: position than there is in the in the interior defensive
Speaker 4: tackle and cornerback position, although the pretty deep at corner
Speaker 4: as well.
Speaker 1: Let me circle back to offensive line for a second.
Speaker 2: You locked in on Latham and Mims, who again on
Speaker 2: the consensus board with a fifth and sixth offensive lineman.
Speaker 2: Let me talk about offensive lineman number four, Troy fa
Speaker 2: Utanu from Washington. He's not one of the behemoths that
Speaker 2: you talked about earlier. He's not six six, he's not
Speaker 2: three thirty's.
Speaker 1: A little smaller.
Speaker 2: Some people project him as a guard, but everybody seems
Speaker 2: to think that he's destined for success somewhere on the
Speaker 2: offensive line.
Speaker 1: What do you think of Fautanu.
Speaker 4: I like him Dan because of the reason that you're
Speaker 4: talking about. I think he could play center too. I
Speaker 4: think it'd be a good center. I think I think
Speaker 4: he can play off of He's, in my mind, one
Speaker 4: of those guys. And you know, I prided myself on
Speaker 4: knowing what was going on at all five position groups.
Speaker 4: He's one of those guys that I think an offensive
Speaker 4: line coach would say, look, you know, maybe not necessarily
Speaker 4: his rookie year, they may just zero in on a
Speaker 4: position groups, but maybe into his once he's comfortable and
Speaker 4: into his rookie year. Maybe in the first few games. Look,
Speaker 4: I want you to really start to broaden your horizon
Speaker 4: here in terms of you know, when you're pulling, know
Speaker 4: what's happened? Is the center reaching the tackle blocking? Now
Speaker 4: what's going on? Because I want you to be able
Speaker 4: to be a guy that I can plug and play
Speaker 4: potentially anywhere in the offensive line, and you know there's
Speaker 4: value to that. I know that helped me play the
Speaker 4: length of time I played in the National Football League.
Speaker 4: As the old saying goes, the more you can do,
Speaker 4: you know it's going to help you. And I think
Speaker 4: he's got that type of athletic ability and mentality to
Speaker 4: be able to do that.
Speaker 2: On the consensus board, the top two defensive tackles or
Speaker 2: Byron Murphy of Texas and Johnny Newton of Illinois. Either
Speaker 2: is a DJ reader type. These are not nose tackles.
Speaker 2: These are roughly six feet tall, three hundred pound penetrating
Speaker 2: three technique type guys. Do you have a preference between
Speaker 2: Byron Murphy and Johnny Newton?
Speaker 4: I like them both, but Murphy to me is he's
Speaker 4: a little bit more freakish, you know, I mean the
Speaker 4: things that he can do. When you look at him,
Speaker 4: he's not he doesn't look to be that big until
Speaker 4: you really start to digest him and then you realize
Speaker 4: that he is really that big. But his both of
Speaker 4: their get offs are extraordinary. And you know, I know,
Speaker 4: like from my rookie experience going against Mike Reid that
Speaker 4: he wasn't the biggest guy in that he wasn't the
Speaker 4: biggest cat in the zoo. But man explosive, you know, suddenness,
Speaker 4: It's like oh jeez, he's on you so quickly and
Speaker 4: packs of punch because of that. You know, both of
Speaker 4: those guys, you know, remind me of that type of
Speaker 4: that type of player. I think they're both going to
Speaker 4: have success in the National Football League. I don't think
Speaker 4: there's any any question about that. I'm not sure you
Speaker 4: know that the Bengals, if they slide to eighteen, I
Speaker 4: think they have to.
Speaker 3: Be talked about one of them.
Speaker 4: I mean, if it happens like you said, Dan, you
Speaker 4: don't know. I mean, the quarterback position, as is always
Speaker 4: the case, is the most important position in the league,
Speaker 4: and they are involved with every snap, making the decisions.
Speaker 3: On every snap, so you know they're gonna move up.
Speaker 4: I mean, he might have a guy that's the twentyeth
Speaker 4: best players you're rating players, but because he's a quarterback,
Speaker 4: he can still go in the top ten or even higher,
Speaker 4: you know. I mean that's the nature of the beast.
Speaker 4: And I think there are other positions in this throwing
Speaker 4: year of the National Football League, you know. I do
Speaker 4: think edge rushers, cornerbacks, wide receivers, offensive tackles, their importance
Speaker 4: is all jumped up as a result as well. I mean,
Speaker 4: I think guys climb the board for that reason as well.
Speaker 4: So besides the quarter back position, which will naturally, you know,
Speaker 4: the cream will rise to the top, and not necessarily
Speaker 4: really good cream, you know, cream that's almost turning bad
Speaker 4: still goes to the top. But how many how many
Speaker 4: of the other positions we're talking about, how many of
Speaker 4: those guys are Boy, there's the run. I got to
Speaker 4: be part of that run. I can't miss out on
Speaker 4: the top end of this deep position group. There is
Speaker 4: still there's depth, but there's a little drop off there,
Speaker 4: you know, from this this group to this group. So
Speaker 4: it'll all all depend on when the runs happen and
Speaker 4: how they happen. I do think that no matter what
Speaker 4: I mean, if they go offensive tackle, if they go
Speaker 4: wide receiver, if they go corner, they're going to get
Speaker 4: a good player. They're gonna get a good player. I
Speaker 4: do think it would have to be one of these
Speaker 4: two defensive tackles to slide to eighteen for them to consider.
Speaker 4: You know, that position group. You know, Sweat might have
Speaker 4: been before he had his Now he's sweating it out
Speaker 4: because he's you know, made mistake, that off the field
Speaker 4: mistake that could cost him a good good bit of cash.
Speaker 4: That one will be interesting if he falls to eighteen
Speaker 4: in the second round.
Speaker 3: What do they do.
Speaker 4: I mean, you scratch scratch a little bit on that,
Speaker 4: but I think I think they address address things in
Speaker 4: a different way potentially, But that he he unfortunately made
Speaker 4: a bad mistake, not only a bad mistake, but a
Speaker 4: bad mistake at the wrong time in his life.
Speaker 2: I'm with you, by the way, Murphy over Newton by
Speaker 2: a smidge.
Speaker 1: Love them both. But Newton had the.
Speaker 2: Broken foot, so that, you know, didn't allow him to
Speaker 2: test going into this draft. Murphy was on that Bruce
Speaker 2: Feldman Freak list that comes out every year before the
Speaker 2: college football season, where he was one of the top
Speaker 2: one hundred freaks in the country. Last year, number eighteen
Speaker 2: on the list ran a four eight seven forty at
Speaker 2: three hundred pounds.
Speaker 4: It's amazing. I mean that that explosiveness is just unbelievable.
Speaker 4: I bet his I haven't really seen broken down his
Speaker 4: ten yard time even I don't even think they measured
Speaker 4: the five yard but in my mind five yard area
Speaker 4: for a guy like that is I think he's maybe
Speaker 4: amongst the quickest there is in the country at any position.
Speaker 4: He is just so his get off is so explosive.
Speaker 2: All right, the obligatory brock Bowers discussion. Now, if you
Speaker 2: remove the quarterbacks, he is one of the top ten
Speaker 2: players on everybody's big board. So in order for him
Speaker 2: to be there for the Bengals, at least five quarterbacks
Speaker 2: would probably need to be taken before the eighteenth pick.
Speaker 2: If he's there with Mike Kasicki, Tanner Hudson, and Drew
Speaker 2: Sample on the current roster, would you draft brock Powers.
Speaker 4: I'd have to give it strong consideration. I think he's
Speaker 4: going to He's one of those guys Dan that in
Speaker 4: my mind, he's not just a tight end. He's a
Speaker 4: slot receiver and a big one. They can run. I
Speaker 4: mean he runs for fourish at two hundred and thirty
Speaker 4: plus pounds. That's a I mean they would give him
Speaker 4: those Jets sweeps and he'd run right from guys in
Speaker 4: the sec you know, and I'm like, Wow.
Speaker 3: That's that's a He's a very very unique weapon.
Speaker 4: Sometimes guys with that kind of speed when they when
Speaker 4: they run their routes there it doesn't kind of I
Speaker 4: thought he was fast, it doesn't show up in the
Speaker 4: route running. He's a guy that his speed shows up
Speaker 4: running routes. He doesn't slow down, in other words, to
Speaker 4: make his cuts, sinker tips getting out of his cuts
Speaker 4: and all that.
Speaker 3: Sort of thing.
Speaker 4: He is a weapon, and I think that whoever gets
Speaker 4: him is getting an extremely special player. I would definitely
Speaker 4: have to think about that long and hard. If Brought
Speaker 4: Bowers is there at eighteen, I think he just to me,
Speaker 4: it's you're addressing your wide receiver position and you're addressing
Speaker 4: depth in your tight end position. You know, I mean
Speaker 4: you're addressing depth in both of those areas with one
Speaker 4: fell swoop. I think he's that kind of guy that
Speaker 4: can provide that type of a tool for a pawn
Speaker 4: on the chess board, for the coaching staff and Joe
Speaker 4: Borrow and everybody to take advantage of.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 2: As an avid listener to the End the Trenches podcast
Speaker 2: with Day of Lapham presented by First Star Logistics, I
Speaker 2: listened to your list a recent conversation with Solomon Wilcotts.
Speaker 2: He made an incredible point that I had never considered
Speaker 2: about Rock Bowers. Don't think of him as a tight end,
Speaker 2: just think of him as receiving weapon number two. There
Speaker 2: are sixteen NFL wide receivers who are set to make
Speaker 2: more than twenty million dollars a year this year, including
Speaker 2: t Higgins, the highest paid tight end in the NFL
Speaker 2: makes seventeen million dollars a year. So if your top
Speaker 2: tight ends are paid less than your top wide receivers,
Speaker 2: you can get bowers get one thousand yards of production
Speaker 2: theoretically if you use them right every year at a
Speaker 2: cheaper price. Especially when you get to that second contract,
Speaker 2: it makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, the second contract is where you kill it, you know,
Speaker 4: because like I said, tight end Travis Kelsey seventeen you know,
Speaker 4: he's the guy Hall of Famer seventeen mil. It's just
Speaker 4: that that position group has not caught up with I mean,
Speaker 4: you have defensive tackles in the NFL making over twenty
Speaker 4: million a year. You have a lot of position groups
Speaker 4: making over twenty million dollars a year. So to get
Speaker 4: him on a rookie contract at that value, and then
Speaker 4: even into the second contract where hopefully now he's been
Speaker 4: around for a five year deal and now it's like
Speaker 4: has he made a Pro Bowl or is he on
Speaker 4: the doorstep of a Pro Bowl? You're still going to
Speaker 4: be able to get him for less than these thirty
Speaker 4: million dollars a year contracts for these wide receivers, you know,
Speaker 4: and that in my mind is a huge reason, you know,
Speaker 4: to consider that guy. There's the economics of the weapon
Speaker 4: that he provides, plus the economics that it will cost you.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's a pretty good case to consider him,
Speaker 4: very very seriously.
Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about the potential that trade in
Speaker 2: the first round. If there was somebody like Bowers or
Speaker 2: one of the offensive linemen was a few spots ahead
Speaker 2: of them. If you look at one of those draft
Speaker 2: trade charts, in order to move up three or four
Speaker 2: spots in the first round, they would probably have to
Speaker 2: give up their extra third round pick. They've got two.
Speaker 2: The second one is ninety seven overall. Would you do
Speaker 2: that to move up a few spots if there was
Speaker 2: someone you really like? Considering that there are going to
Speaker 2: be plenty of players you like at number eighteen.
Speaker 4: Right, I mean, you'd have to consider Bowers is uniquely
Speaker 4: special if he's still still there after fifteen, and you're like,
Speaker 4: you know, if he's there at fifteen, like you said,
Speaker 4: you move up three spots and give up third round
Speaker 4: pick to do it. I mean that's where the rubber
Speaker 4: meets the road. I mean, that's a big decision because
Speaker 4: you you're going to get a good football player at
Speaker 4: one of those four positions that we're talking about, offensive tackle,
Speaker 4: wide receiver, you know, nose tackle, or corner. So that's
Speaker 4: that's let's put it this way. In the last twenty
Speaker 4: five years, the Bengals haven't moved up in the first round.
Speaker 4: They've moved back twice since twenty ten, but haven't moved
Speaker 4: up at all. Now again they have they've been unfortunately,
Speaker 4: they have been pretty high in the draft anyway, and
Speaker 4: the reason to move up and moving up from when
Speaker 4: they were good, moving up from the back end is difficult,
Speaker 4: you know, to move up to near the top ten.
Speaker 4: So at eighteen it's costly, but it's not as costly
Speaker 4: as it would be, you know, other years. So that
Speaker 4: is I mean, all of that. You can throw all that,
Speaker 4: all that into a computer that you want to, but
Speaker 4: you have to have it's a gut it's a gut field,
Speaker 4: it's a gut check. What do you what's the comp
Speaker 4: to this guy? Is there a comp to this guy?
Speaker 4: Does this guy provide such a unique weapon opportunity that
Speaker 4: you know, gosh, he really doesn't have a comp. His
Speaker 4: comp might be, you know, an all Pro receiver and
Speaker 4: an all Pro tight end. You know, uh, put them
Speaker 4: together and you got you got the comp to Brock Bowers.
Speaker 4: You know, it's like, wow, what I mean, who is
Speaker 4: who is this guy's comp? And while I'm thinking about that, Uh,
Speaker 4: Bill Tobin came to mind, you know. I mean he
Speaker 4: was great at doing this type of thing. He had
Speaker 4: a great gut for this type of a great feel.
Speaker 4: I mean, Mike Brown has said many times whenever Bill
Speaker 4: Tobin spoke about a player, that was, you know, the
Speaker 4: voice of God in terms of football evaluation. And the
Speaker 4: Bengals in the National Football League recently lost a heck
Speaker 4: of a man as fine a man as I have
Speaker 4: a med Dan and his son Dude could cut from
Speaker 4: the same cloth. I mean, the Tobin family has been
Speaker 4: good to us, and they've been good to the National
Speaker 4: Football League. And so I think about Bill Tobin around
Speaker 4: this time of year every year, and then this year
Speaker 4: a sad situation.
Speaker 3: We lost a.
Speaker 4: Great one there. But those kind of guys like a
Speaker 4: Bill Tobin with that type of you know, that that
Speaker 4: type of confidence in what he's seeing and being able
Speaker 4: to make a decision based on his gut, and not
Speaker 4: every one of them are going to be right. That's
Speaker 4: the thing you hate to You hate to make a mistake,
Speaker 4: and if it costs you a top one hundred pick,
Speaker 4: it's a costly mistake. So you have to you definitely,
Speaker 4: you definitely have to feel you know, not just like
Speaker 4: sixty percent right. You have to be up there. It
Speaker 4: has to be an extremely high percentage. You have to
Speaker 4: feel like, you know, nine times out of ten, I'm
Speaker 4: doing this, man, I'm on this. This is this is
Speaker 4: This is a no brainer to me. You know, other
Speaker 4: people may rip it apart, and there's there's always going
Speaker 4: to be somebody just for the sake of being contrarian.
Speaker 4: There's going to be people out there that are going
Speaker 4: to take the other side and bash you to death
Speaker 4: or whatever. But you have to have a confidence in
Speaker 4: your eyes and your football acumen and make a call.
Speaker 2: Which is why I will give a flat out no
Speaker 2: to giving up that third round pick to move up
Speaker 2: a few spots. I don't think it's worth it. The
Speaker 2: draft is always a crapshoot. Injuries happen, you never know
Speaker 2: what's going to happen. Guys that you think are a
Speaker 2: sure thing often aren't sure things. I'd go back a
Speaker 2: few spots to get an extra third round pick. I
Speaker 2: would not go up. The one exception would be for
Speaker 2: a quarterback. If I was in a situation where I
Speaker 2: desperately needed a quarterback and the class was good and
Speaker 2: I felt like I've got a really good chance that
Speaker 2: this guy's going to be my quarterback, then I'd do it.
Speaker 1: For virtually any other position, I'm not doing.
Speaker 4: It, Yeah, I would tend to regrue and the Bengals. Obviously,
Speaker 4: I haven't moved up in the first round for twenty
Speaker 4: five years. That's their thought process. I mean, it has
Speaker 4: to be something that is so incredibly you know, obvious
Speaker 4: to everybody that it has to happen, but and brought
Speaker 4: by is probably you know a guy that you might
Speaker 4: because let's face it, in the twenty five years, there
Speaker 4: have been a litany of opportunities for them to move up.
Speaker 4: I mean, people are, you know, testing the waters all
Speaker 4: day every day with every team in the National Football
Speaker 4: League for trades, some more than others. But there's obviously
Speaker 4: been been times where, you know, the Bengals have been
Speaker 4: afforded an opportunity and decided not to do it. I agree,
Speaker 4: I do think. I do think when you're in the
Speaker 4: top hundred, that's good draft capital and you don't waste it.
Speaker 4: You don't waste it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I start considering moving up when the cost is
Speaker 2: fourth round or late. I'm not giving up a third
Speaker 2: or obviously a first or second.
Speaker 3: I agree, I agree.
Speaker 4: I mean day one, day two draft picks or you know,
Speaker 4: and you'll see there's there's always going to be examples
Speaker 4: of oh, well, you know, so and so it was
Speaker 4: a seventh, so and so it's a sixth. But you're
Speaker 4: talking about a small number in the bi big stratosphere,
Speaker 4: the big universe of the National Football League. You're always
Speaker 4: going to find somebody that is, you know, different than
Speaker 4: the norm, but you're not going to find a whole
Speaker 4: bunch of them. So yeah, I mean, I think, I
Speaker 4: think being prudent and judicious with those over the long haul,
Speaker 4: there's always going to be somebody there that is going
Speaker 4: to give you value at that pick. You know, it's like,
Speaker 4: I just if if you for some reason, if you
Speaker 4: have a roster that's incredible, and you you know, you
Speaker 4: want to give up a third round pick because you
Speaker 4: only have like one one need to fill and you
Speaker 4: want to address it in the second and third round.
Speaker 4: You want to move up in the third round to
Speaker 4: address this one need I'm talking about, Like the odds
Speaker 4: of this happened is one, and I don't know how
Speaker 4: many gazillion I think. I think it's it's very very
Speaker 4: rare that I would consider doing that.
Speaker 2: Just because Tom Brady was the one hundred and ninety
Speaker 2: ninth pick in the draft, that does not mean that
Speaker 2: all picks number one ninety nine are great.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: According to the various big boards, there's a good chance
Speaker 2: that the third or fourth best cornerback will be there,
Speaker 2: Nate Wiggins of Clemson, Cooper Dijon or Djene of Iowa.
Speaker 2: The fourth, fifth, or sixth wide receiver could be there.
Speaker 2: Brian Thomas from LSU, Lad McConkey of Georgia, Ad Mitchell
Speaker 2: from Texas. Is it a long shot to think that
Speaker 2: pick number eighteen is going to be one of those guys?
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't think it's a long shot. I think those
Speaker 4: guys are That's that's why I think this draft is
Speaker 4: so unique. It's like I think, when the Bengals to
Speaker 4: get to eighteen, there's going to be maybe four options.
Speaker 4: There's going to be an option to each one of
Speaker 4: those positions. And now it's like, Okay, we spend all
Speaker 4: this time stacking our board, and you know what, no
Speaker 4: board in the UH, in the NFL is identical on
Speaker 4: team by team basis. Why because every board there is
Speaker 4: need involved. I don't give a damn what they say
Speaker 4: board based on bull crap, Mama. I mean there's there's
Speaker 4: definite need. There's definite need. I mean some teams have
Speaker 4: that need a quarterback. Some teams have quarterbacks much stacked
Speaker 4: much differently on their board than teams that don't. I mean,
Speaker 4: let's face it, not everybody's gonna have five quarterbacks going
Speaker 4: in the top half of the first round. Potentially they're
Speaker 4: gonna say, I'm gonna go buy my real true evaluation
Speaker 4: in this quarterback position. And this guy is not even
Speaker 4: a top fifteen guy on the big board. I'm not
Speaker 4: gonna put him in the top one. But teams that
Speaker 4: it's based on need, that's that's just the nature of
Speaker 4: the beast. So there are gonna be again, depending on
Speaker 4: when the runs happen at these positions. It's you think,
Speaker 4: you know, people might say, you mean to tell me
Speaker 4: that the sixth offensive tackle is better than the second
Speaker 4: defensive tackle at number eighteen, Are you kidding? No, not kidding.
Speaker 4: I mean, based on the tape, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: You know, it's it might not be a huge difference.
Speaker 4: And the sixth offensive tackle, the fourth corner, you know, whatever.
Speaker 3: The case may be.
Speaker 4: They may all be there and I may have them
Speaker 4: on my board like Bank Bank, They're all right there.
Speaker 4: They're all in the same little cluster, same little clump.
Speaker 4: So now you have to go to whatever's going to
Speaker 4: be the differentiator man, high character guy. This guy, I
Speaker 4: mean everybody, everybody I talked to has nothing they get
Speaker 4: to say about this guy. This guy has a little
Speaker 4: flying annoying with this. I mean, now you're talking about,
Speaker 4: you know, nitpicking, and that's what it might come down to.
Speaker 1: So we've been focused on pick number eighteen.
Speaker 2: The Bengals also have number forty nine, that's their second
Speaker 2: round pick. They've got two picks in the third eighty
Speaker 2: and ninety seven. So for out of the top one hundred,
Speaker 2: do you have some favorites, some guys you like after
Speaker 2: round one?
Speaker 4: You know, I haven't really kind of zeroed in. Honestly,
Speaker 4: if if for whatever reason, the Bengals do don't take
Speaker 4: a tackle at at eighteen and I don't think this
Speaker 4: guy is going to fall to the middle of the
Speaker 4: second round, but a guy that might be in the
Speaker 4: second round, they might think about moving up for Patrick
Speaker 4: Paul out of Houston.
Speaker 1: He could be there with their second round.
Speaker 3: Bit he could yeah, and they may have to move
Speaker 3: up a little bit for him.
Speaker 4: I mean, if if they could get if they don't
Speaker 4: go tackle in the first round, that that's a guy
Speaker 4: in the in the in the second round that you
Speaker 4: know that I I would I would think, yeah, you
Speaker 4: know that that could make some sense. Javon Baker out
Speaker 4: of Central Florida as a as wide receiver yet wide
Speaker 4: receiver possibly you know, in in the third round. Uh
Speaker 4: for defensive line, interior defensive lineman in the in the
Speaker 4: second round. Uh if I like Fisk a lot I
Speaker 4: like uh. I like Jenkins out of Michigan, I like
Speaker 4: Fisk out of Florida State. You know, those couple of
Speaker 4: guys potentially in the in the second round for an
Speaker 4: interior de defensive tackling the third round, Smith out of LSU,
Speaker 4: Jackson McKinley Jackson out of Texas A and m those
Speaker 4: guys potentially, you know, as third round guys. I've those
Speaker 4: are guys that I've thought about, you know, maybe a
Speaker 4: little bit.
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's it's.
Speaker 4: I've focused most of my attention, as you can tell,
Speaker 4: on the interior offensive and defensive line.
Speaker 3: A guy that I.
Speaker 4: Really like a lot is man Darius Robinson out of
Speaker 4: Missouri edge guy. And that's not a huge I mean
Speaker 4: that's the Bengals are in good shape, but you can
Speaker 4: always use another edge guy. The thing is, you know,
Speaker 4: when you when you look at it, I mean edge
Speaker 4: rushers the seventh round. There's there could be ten to
Speaker 4: twelve guys still available off the edge in the seventh
Speaker 4: round because it's such a plentiful position because of the
Speaker 4: way the national foot in college football, in the National
Speaker 4: Football League, you know, structures itself now, you know, I
Speaker 4: mean you might be able to might be able to
Speaker 4: get a good end guy in the third or fourth round.
Speaker 4: There could be ten guys available in that third and
Speaker 4: fourth round, you know, front edge guy. So I'm saying
Speaker 4: this draft I think is so deep. I think they're
Speaker 4: gonna be with there are what two or three teams down,
Speaker 4: they have eleven picks and the Bengals have ten.
Speaker 3: They were amongst, you know, the league leaders.
Speaker 4: With having that draft capital going into this particular drafts
Speaker 4: as well fortified as it is, I think it's a
Speaker 4: good thing.
Speaker 2: I wrote down some names for guys I like after
Speaker 2: round one, and you named two of them. Chris Jenkins
Speaker 2: from Michigan aka the Mutant. His dad is a four
Speaker 2: time pro bowler. His dad is sixty pounds heavier, but
Speaker 2: Chris Jenkins, the defensive tackles about three hundred pounds. I
Speaker 2: also like Mason Smith from LSU. There aren't a lot
Speaker 2: of tall defensive.
Speaker 1: Linemen in this crowd.
Speaker 2: He's six five, three h six coming off in ACL
Speaker 2: from a couple of years ago, but I think he
Speaker 2: might be there with their first third round pick. I
Speaker 2: also like Mike Hall from Ohio State. Twenty years old.
Speaker 2: Ran a four to seven five forty two hundred and
Speaker 2: ninety nine pounds, was excellent in the Senior and we
Speaker 2: know that the Bengals.
Speaker 1: Have liked Ohio State players, so that might be a
Speaker 1: name to keep an eye on.
Speaker 4: What about a corner, Dan, I have a guy in
Speaker 4: the third round Max Melton, not of Rutgers, potentially as there.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's a guy that I've kind of said, hey,
Speaker 4: if he's a I mean the fourth round again, there's
Speaker 4: I mean third, fourth, and fourth, fifth and sixth round
Speaker 4: corners we're looking at, like, you know, a dozen and
Speaker 4: a half guys available, eighteen to twenty guys that you
Speaker 4: can choose from some point in time in those three rounds.
Speaker 4: So in my mind that might be a good targeting
Speaker 4: point for the cornerback position.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I had Max Melton down ran a four to three
Speaker 2: nine forty block several punts at Rutgers number sixty three
Speaker 2: on the Dane Brugler board, So might he.
Speaker 1: Be there at eighty maybe.
Speaker 2: Would be my favorite non first round pick in this
Speaker 2: draft is cornerback Mikey Saintras still of Michigan. He's Mike
Speaker 2: Hilton two point zero. He's undersized five to nine, one
Speaker 2: hundred and eighty two pounds, but a two time captain
Speaker 2: six picks last year two pick six is every time
Speaker 2: I turned on the TV and watched Michigan last year,
Speaker 2: he was making big plays. Might he be there at
Speaker 2: forty nine in the second round?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Maybe?
Speaker 2: And I don't know if the Bengals had pulled the trigger.
Speaker 2: But I love Mikey Semer still.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I've got him in the second round. TJ.
Speaker 4: Tampa Lassiter, I like, but I think they'll they'll probably
Speaker 4: be gone by eighteen, but I do out of Michigan,
Speaker 4: Sam still the same type of thought Presssu then melting
Speaker 4: in the third round, and I didn't go as far
Speaker 4: as the fourth round in terms of the corner spot.
Speaker 4: But I don't know it's going to be interesting. It's
Speaker 4: if we're thinking this, you got to figure a lot
Speaker 4: of teams in the NFL or thinking too. And that's
Speaker 4: the thing. You get to a certain spot. There's this
Speaker 4: cluster of corners, there's this cluster of receivers. There's this
Speaker 4: I mean, it's like it's not just a guy from
Speaker 4: each position group, it's multiple guys from each position group
Speaker 4: that may be worthy, particularly like you say, we're thinking, oh,
Speaker 4: would he be available if they're sliding? Gosh, man, that's
Speaker 4: the thing you look at when when the when the
Speaker 4: quarterbacks get pushed up in the draft, overvalued like they are,
Speaker 4: there's a trickle down effect that takes a few rounds
Speaker 4: before it kind of readjusts itself, so you know, some
Speaker 4: guys potentially could be affected by that, and you might
Speaker 4: there may be guys available. It's like, damn, I never
Speaker 4: thought that, dude, it would be here at this spot.
Speaker 4: But it's a you know, or it's a trickle up
Speaker 4: or trickle down, whatever you want to say. It's an
Speaker 4: adjustment of where these guys were pictured by the mock
Speaker 4: people and probably player of Personnel department guys going into
Speaker 4: the draft until the actual pick of how many quarterbacks
Speaker 4: are gonna how many teams are gonna get suckered by quarterbacks,
Speaker 4: how many teams are going to make a run at
Speaker 4: wide receiver, make a run at offensive tackle, whatever the
Speaker 4: case may be.
Speaker 2: More with Lapp in a moment, but first, a quick
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Speaker 2: I wrote on a few wide receivers as well for
Speaker 2: after the first round. Malachi Coraley from Western Kentucky. His
Speaker 2: nickname was the Yack King. He's been compared to Deebo
Speaker 2: Samuel did not run a good forty time at the Combine,
Speaker 2: but was incredibly productive with the ball in his hands
Speaker 2: last year. Troy Franklin from Oregon. He is a field stretcher,
Speaker 2: tremendous speed. Devontees Walker from North Carolina just like that
Speaker 2: as well for three six in the forties. So those
Speaker 2: are a few of the guys that I'm thinking might
Speaker 2: be a possibility for a second or third round wide receiver.
Speaker 4: I had Ricky Prol Pierre Sally should say from Florida.
Speaker 4: I had Leget. I think he's he's talked about. I mean,
Speaker 4: he's a riser. It seems like I had him as
Speaker 4: the third round potential. I mean he might go somewhere
Speaker 4: in the second round. But you know, and I mentioned
Speaker 4: h Baker Jalen Polp from Washington. Potential fourth round guy
Speaker 4: is somebody that you know, thought thought had some some potential.
Speaker 4: So there are going to be there are going to
Speaker 4: be really good football players. And the thing is Dan
Speaker 4: the secret sauce of having a successful personnel department is
Speaker 4: this guy man and the offense that he got stuck
Speaker 4: in and there's less of that in the NIL. Now
Speaker 4: they get the heck out of there. And the NIL
Speaker 4: is an interesting dynamic. I mean to me, it's like
Speaker 4: as it made it hard or easier for personnel people
Speaker 4: to evaluate because there's a lot of the guys that
Speaker 4: would have gone in the seventh round their college teams
Speaker 4: are saying, we'll make it worth a while. Don't don't
Speaker 4: go out in the draft and go in the sixth
Speaker 4: or something. We'll give you more money than you make,
Speaker 4: you know. And when you look at it, they get
Speaker 4: that kind of net money. They don't have to pay
Speaker 4: for housing, you don't have to pay for food. You know,
Speaker 4: alum might be given him a car. It's it's it's
Speaker 4: the grossest the net. There's no expenses, so competing at
Speaker 4: the end of the NIL, I think makes it. It
Speaker 4: kind of clears some of the waters a little bit
Speaker 4: on the on the back end, the late end. But
Speaker 4: and I think it also it's like, man, this poor kid,
Speaker 4: he got stuck in this system or you know, no
Speaker 4: anything else says I'm out, bro, you're not using me.
Speaker 4: I'm better than this you guys, I can't stay here.
Speaker 4: You guys lied to me, you're not using me the way,
Speaker 4: or sometimes just a personality issue and the assistant coach
Speaker 4: or the coordinator, the head coach just don't hit it
Speaker 4: off and I don't get the hell out, you know,
Speaker 4: So there's there's less of that. That, to me was
Speaker 4: one of the hardest things for personnel departments to evaluate.
Speaker 4: This guy just got he got dealt a bad hand. Well,
Speaker 4: now with the nil, you can discard and get three more,
Speaker 4: you know, and try to improve your.
Speaker 2: Hand anil and the ability to transfer without sitting out
Speaker 2: of here. Take Charlie Jones in his final year, he said,
Speaker 2: I'm going to go where there's a quarterback that can
Speaker 2: get me the ball and I can put up some
Speaker 2: wide receiver stats.
Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely, I mean I think I think that from
Speaker 4: that standpoint, I think that's a big burden that has
Speaker 4: been somewhat lifted from player personnel people is like, well,
Speaker 4: his for his his measurables and his tangibles. It just
Speaker 4: wasn't the right fit. In my mind. The thing that
Speaker 4: you still have to really be clever at and have
Speaker 4: a lot of contacts is the intangibles, is the dude
Speaker 4: a turd? I mean, does does the dude want to compete?
Speaker 4: Is he like an uber competitor? Is he?
Speaker 3: This? Is he?
Speaker 1: That? So?
Speaker 3: I think?
Speaker 4: I think the Bengals, having as many guys as they've had,
Speaker 4: stay together for as long as they have, They've finished
Speaker 4: each other's sentences, you know, now, being with one organization
Speaker 4: all those years, the contacts they've made out in the
Speaker 4: college football world for a number of years, there's a
Speaker 4: lot of trust there, back and forth to evaluate whether
Speaker 4: a guy you know thumbs up or thumbs down.
Speaker 2: You have just given me the greatest idea of all time.
Speaker 2: Just as captains wear a C on their jersey, I
Speaker 2: think guys who are known as turds should be forced
Speaker 2: to wear a tea tea classic.
Speaker 4: I'll tell you, man, I'm still trying to figure out
Speaker 4: the best way to spell it.
Speaker 2: T you are, I'm a t U R speller. All right,
Speaker 2: we have reached the moment of truth. It is prediction time.
Speaker 2: With the eighteenth pick of the twenty twenty four NFL Draft,
Speaker 2: the Cincinnati Bengals select.
Speaker 4: I'm going by what I'd like to see happen, and
Speaker 4: I think Orlando and Brown and I are in the
Speaker 4: same boat. I'd like to see Jacon. I mean, will
Speaker 4: he be there? Who the hell knows? I mean, if
Speaker 4: he's not, it wouldn't. I wouldn't. As a former offensive lineman,
Speaker 4: I wouldn't be upset if they took Mims.
Speaker 3: It wouldn't. It wouldn't hurt me at all.
Speaker 4: I think a lot of people might say, oh, that's
Speaker 4: a little bit too rich, you know, potentially, But I
Speaker 4: see he's got some guys have you know, uh, a.
Speaker 3: High floor and a low ceiling or a high ceiling.
Speaker 4: Low. He's got a high floor in a high ceiling.
Speaker 4: I mean, he's he's got a lot. But if the
Speaker 4: Bengals were able to select jac Latham with that eighteenth pick,
Speaker 4: I'd be uh, I'd be a happy camper. Anybody want
Speaker 4: to join me at.
Speaker 1: Camp Frank Pollack would like to join you at that camp.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 2: So I've done three three round mock drafts on this
Speaker 2: podcast over the last few weeks. Twice my first ground
Speaker 2: pick was Troy Fautanu. The other time it was JC
Speaker 2: Latham when he was there. If either of those guys
Speaker 2: is there, that's my pick. But I don't think either
Speaker 2: one is going to be there. I just have a
Speaker 2: hunch there's going to be a run, and my options
Speaker 2: are going to be as follows, best offensive line available, Mims,
Speaker 2: best defensive linemen available, Murphy, some other guys as well
Speaker 2: that are interesting, wide receivers, corners, etc. But because I'm
Speaker 2: fearing that the top five offensive linemen on the consensus
Speaker 2: board are going to be gone, I will predict Byron Murphy.
Speaker 2: I have not taken up until this point, but as
Speaker 2: of today, that is my prediction.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that could very well pan out that way.
Speaker 4: And it's like, like I said before, it's like, Okay,
Speaker 4: you mean to tell me the sixth rated offensive tackle
Speaker 4: in most people's opinion, is better than the number one
Speaker 4: defensive tackle. I know I'm not saying that necessarily, and
Speaker 4: I'm speaking as a former offensive line in the ear,
Speaker 4: but I mean I do think I could see. I
Speaker 4: could see, you know, would I have a problem if
Speaker 4: they took If there were five offensive tackles taken, Latham
Speaker 4: was one of those, I would not have an issue.
Speaker 4: If they took Murphy over Mims whatsoever. I wouldn't have
Speaker 4: an issue they took Mems over Murphy. I do think
Speaker 4: they need to address some way the offensive offensive a
Speaker 4: defensive line the line of scrimmage with that eighteenth pick, though,
Speaker 4: I do believe that, and I mean, if.
Speaker 3: There's an edge guy that slides shoot.
Speaker 4: Caught me in, I'm good with that as well, you know,
Speaker 4: But I don't think at eighteen I would go with
Speaker 4: an interior offensive lineman over the interior defensive lineman. I
Speaker 4: wouldn't do that. If the cornerback slides, I mean, one
Speaker 4: of the top four corners for whatever reason, would be there.
Speaker 4: You just don't know. But I agree with you as
Speaker 4: far as the line of scrimmage is concerned. I just
Speaker 4: hope the big boy out of Alabama's there. The other
Speaker 4: reason is we must be cousins. We only have one
Speaker 4: letter different. I gotta be just a cousin somehow. I mean,
Speaker 4: take out the key, put in a P.
Speaker 2: Your name has been mispronounced Latham over the years, no question.
Speaker 4: I mean, uh, my football coach and man, you know,
Speaker 4: very old Bench Schwartzwalder called me Latham for four years
Speaker 4: and my freshman hero is because you know, he didn't
Speaker 4: know how to pronounce it.
Speaker 3: But it got to be a joke.
Speaker 4: And I was his captain for Crown a loud and
Speaker 4: he called me Latham when I was sitting across and
Speaker 4: he'd smile, you know, hey Latham what uh so? Yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean lay from Latham close. I'll change the way
Speaker 4: I pronounced my name.
Speaker 2: If we dropped him, well, let me say, if they
Speaker 2: do wind up taking memes, I've got no problem with that.
Speaker 2: Like you said, he is the offensive tackle built in
Speaker 2: a lab. Yeah, he has eight time Pro Bowl potential.
Speaker 2: Uh And if that's the way the Bengals go, I'm
Speaker 2: ready to embrace Amrius Mims.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I do think the thing that I
Speaker 4: am about Murphy is for his size, you think and
Speaker 4: the explosiveness you'd think that you know, really good push
Speaker 4: of past. He plays the run, man, I mean his
Speaker 4: pad level, it's almost like he takes a knee on
Speaker 4: some reps. He's on one knee to get under people.
Speaker 4: And and that's an explosive guy to be able to
Speaker 4: do that. And that's a an athletically and physically gifted
Speaker 4: dude to do some of the stuff he does on tape.
Speaker 3: There's no question about it.
Speaker 1: All Right.
Speaker 2: We hadn't done a podcast in a while, so I
Speaker 2: pointed the lap signal into the Cincinnati sky and got
Speaker 2: several ask lap questions. We've covered some of them already,
Speaker 2: but here are a few that we have not hit on.
Speaker 1: This is from our friend Strawberry Ice.
Speaker 2: Oh baby, if Johnny Newton drops to the second round
Speaker 2: due to his foot issue, with the Bengals trade up
Speaker 2: to get him.
Speaker 1: So that was the question.
Speaker 2: Now I did a little extra homework to try to
Speaker 2: put it in better perspective. To move up five spots,
Speaker 2: it would probably cost them a fourth round pick.
Speaker 1: To move up ten spots.
Speaker 2: It would probably cost them their second third round pick
Speaker 2: to move up to the top of the second round.
Speaker 2: It would probably cost them their first third round pick.
Speaker 2: Would you make any of those deals in hopes of
Speaker 2: getting Johnny Newton?
Speaker 4: The only one I'd make dan is the fourth round pick,
Speaker 4: for the reasons we talked about earlier. I really value,
Speaker 4: you know, those those top one hundred picks. I mean,
Speaker 4: you're going to get good football players with those top
Speaker 4: one hundred picks, and he is a really good football player.
Speaker 4: But I'd gladly give up a fourth round pick to
Speaker 4: move up a handful of spots to get him. But
Speaker 4: I'm not sure that i'd I'm not sure i'd more
Speaker 4: goods much more from TJ.
Speaker 2: Hushman Zada's shiny shoes. If the Bengals don't select an
Speaker 2: offensive lineman in round one, how late can they wait
Speaker 2: to get the right tackle of the future.
Speaker 4: Well that's a really good question, and you know, I
Speaker 4: mean Frank Pollack in the in the scouting department would
Speaker 4: be much more qualified to answer that question than me.
Speaker 4: But I mean, if they if they wait to the
Speaker 4: fourth round, I wouldn't. I wouldn't wait any longer than that.
Speaker 4: I can tell you that. I mean second round. There's
Speaker 4: not many projected to go in the second round, not
Speaker 4: many predicted to go in the third. But the next
Speaker 4: round where there's a cluster of offensive tackles to go
Speaker 4: is the fourth round?
Speaker 3: Based on that?
Speaker 4: Geez, I don't know. I feel like they have to
Speaker 4: spend one of the top one hundred picks on that
Speaker 4: offensive tackle. I don't think they can wait to go
Speaker 4: to the next run potentially of offensive tackles into the
Speaker 4: fourth round.
Speaker 1: Here's a question from Mane.
Speaker 2: What do you think of offensive lineman Graham Barton out
Speaker 2: of Duke Could he be in play at number eighteen?
Speaker 4: We talked about versatility. I think he's a guy his
Speaker 4: dad played in the NFL for a good number of
Speaker 4: years as well. And you know he's got position versatility.
Speaker 4: He can play, in my mind, all five positions as well.
Speaker 4: I think, you know, he would initially be projected to
Speaker 4: be a guard, but I do think he could go
Speaker 4: out and play tackle if necessary, and he could definitely
Speaker 4: line up and he's a very intelligent guy.
Speaker 3: Went to Duke.
Speaker 4: I think he could, you know, handle the center position
Speaker 4: very readily. I mean, if he if he's there at
Speaker 4: we talking eighteen when I'm talking, I would not I
Speaker 4: would not put him in the eighteen category. I would
Speaker 4: My discussion would be, you know, if he's there for
Speaker 4: some reason in the second round, hell yeah, even if
Speaker 4: I took a tackle in the first round. If that,
Speaker 4: if Barton's there in the second round, he's definitely in
Speaker 4: the In the conversation.
Speaker 2: From Jesse, if Amrius Mims is the pick, could he
Speaker 2: play guard until he's needed at right tackle?
Speaker 3: I think he could. I think he could.
Speaker 4: And man, when you look at that six ' eight
Speaker 4: six seven plus, you know the shorty at six '
Speaker 4: four Keras at center, you know, well, Cap is six
Speaker 4: six six six. I'm saying if he had to go
Speaker 4: inside at either guard. You know, the two starters are
Speaker 4: between six sixth and sixty seven, between six seven and
Speaker 4: seven eight and six eight. I mean, this offensive line
Speaker 4: is the biggest offensive line in captivity before they make
Speaker 4: this draft selection. When they take this guy, it's going
Speaker 4: to be you. But get better buy tickets because it's
Speaker 4: like viewing at the zoo. You know, you got the
Speaker 4: biggest group in captivity. I mean, it is going to
Speaker 4: be the Great Wall of China. And the thing is
Speaker 4: for the five offensive linemen have been on Super Bowl
Speaker 4: championship teams, projected starters. You got big, powerful, strong, athletic
Speaker 4: enough offensive lineman man a Chevis. It's you know, it's
Speaker 4: almost like you look at what they've already got, what
Speaker 4: they did in free agency with the guys were talking about,
Speaker 4: I mean, the starters, projected starters, with the four Super
Speaker 4: Bowl championships and all the size they've already got. It's like,
Speaker 4: come on, Frank, don't be selfish. You don't need that
Speaker 4: eighteenth pick. I'm sure the other position coach, Come on, Frank,
Speaker 4: how much do you need?
Speaker 3: Bro So? I mean, but what what a what a
Speaker 3: room that'll be?
Speaker 4: I think they can sell tickets to when we land
Speaker 4: at visiting airports when they get off the plane, have
Speaker 4: them I'll get off single, follow as a group and
Speaker 4: have everybody pay to observe them get off.
Speaker 2: You know from Bengals and Bruise, Let's give the interior
Speaker 2: defense or offensive lineman some love. Who are a couple
Speaker 2: of your favorites among the interior offensive lineman?
Speaker 4: And why well, I know people think the kid from Oregon, uh,
Speaker 4: you know, Johnson Jackson will be able to uh he'll
Speaker 4: be a first round maybe late first round pick, and
Speaker 4: he'll be gone in the in the in the second round.
Speaker 4: Graham Barton, like I talked about earlier from Duke, I
Speaker 4: think I think he's he's somebody that you need to
Speaker 4: take a look at. Fraser Zach Frasier from West Virginia.
Speaker 4: I think he's a he's a scrapper man. He'll he'll
Speaker 4: fight you.
Speaker 1: He'll wrestling champ.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, he'll he'll fight you till the end, and
Speaker 4: he'll fight you and bite you until the end. You know,
Speaker 4: there are eight eight potential eight to ten guys. Really
Speaker 4: in round three, round four, there's seven to eight Round five,
Speaker 4: there's another seven round six. I mean from from round
Speaker 4: three to round six we're looking at twenty five to
Speaker 4: thirty draftable players, So in my mind, that's the sweet
Speaker 4: spot where you go after, you know, maybe an interior
Speaker 4: offensive lineman. So I wouldn't do it with one of
Speaker 4: the top one hundred picks. But after that open market,
Speaker 4: open game.
Speaker 2: A question from Sean, will they target a slot receiver
Speaker 2: to replace Tyler Boyd or a receiver with more position flexibility?
Speaker 2: And in what round will they draft their first wide receiver?
Speaker 4: You know, I think the way the Bengals work with
Speaker 4: their receiver group is everybody needs to know every assignment.
Speaker 4: We know, Dan, that's they pride themselves on being interchangeable.
Speaker 4: Interchange uh drill bits in the drill. So you know,
Speaker 4: Tyler Boyd could play outside as well as slot, but
Speaker 4: he was primarily a slot receiver. You know, Jamar Chase
Speaker 4: will go on the slot and he's outstanding. He's out
Speaker 4: standing out in the edge. So I think they'll be
Speaker 4: looking for a guy that can do that, that can
Speaker 4: can line up anywhere and not have a not have
Speaker 4: a problem. So that requires a certain amount of skill set,
Speaker 4: but also what's upstairs? How much can he assimilate? You know,
Speaker 4: is he a guy that is going to be limited. Boy,
Speaker 4: this guy, you gotta plug him an X and keep
Speaker 4: it X split in. You know, don't forget about slot, flanker,
Speaker 4: forget about slot. So I think you know that part
Speaker 4: of it is going to be a big part of
Speaker 4: the evaluation process of the wide receivers for the Bengals.
Speaker 2: And when will they take their first I would say
Speaker 2: second or third r I don't see them going to
Speaker 2: Day three without a wide receiver.
Speaker 3: Agreed, Agreed.
Speaker 4: I again, I in my mind, if with those first
Speaker 4: four picks, the top one hundred picks, offensive tackle, defensive tackle,
Speaker 4: wide receiver, corner, if they can get in my mind,
Speaker 4: done deal gravy. Rest of the rest of the draft
Speaker 4: is gravy. And maybe we'll just do a little manipulation
Speaker 4: to move around a little bit. But at that point,
Speaker 4: I'm just doubling down. And I'm not saying they won't
Speaker 4: draft the safety. I'm not saying they won't draft a
Speaker 4: running back. But I think I think that they'll say,
Speaker 4: you know what, I'm going to draft another receiver in
Speaker 4: round six because this kid has a shot, you know.
Speaker 4: But if they can get those four positions covered in
Speaker 4: Day one and two, I'm good.
Speaker 2: Question from laslow flow with a needed nose tackle. What
Speaker 2: about bringing back Tyler Shelvion For those that don't recall,
Speaker 2: a fourth round pick in twenty twenty one, he was
Speaker 2: part of the Super Bowl team, did play some in
Speaker 2: the playoffs that year, but got released in December the
Speaker 2: following year. So that's his second year, which is pretty
Speaker 2: unusual for a top first four round draft pick in Cincinnati.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and haven't heard Tyler Shelvin's name around the league,
Speaker 4: you know, anywhere else. So obviously everybody had the same,
Speaker 4: you know, the same evaluation of Tyler Shelvin that the
Speaker 4: Bengals had. So I do think it would not surprise
Speaker 4: me that if they go through the draft, and even
Speaker 4: if they go through college free agency and they haven't
Speaker 4: found somebody that they feel like, you know, fits the bill,
Speaker 4: I think they will go back to the street and
Speaker 4: see who's who's out there, who's still you know, was
Speaker 4: released by a team and for whatever reason, nobody else
Speaker 4: has picked them up yet because there's not a big
Speaker 4: market for those guys. But you know, as as the
Speaker 4: uh as it starts to dwindle down to okay, now
Speaker 4: there's we still have a little bit of a need
Speaker 4: and this guy's still out there might be able to
Speaker 4: work out a little bit of a fit here that
Speaker 4: that wouldn't shock me. I mean, I think they're there's
Speaker 4: two areas of free agency, in the initial veteran free agency,
Speaker 4: which they did a great job, and then the draft
Speaker 4: and then college free agency, and then there's another round
Speaker 4: of you know, free agents that are still out there.
Speaker 4: And I think there might be a candidate that would
Speaker 4: come in and compete at training camp for that spot
Speaker 4: in that arena.
Speaker 2: But I think we can safely say it will not
Speaker 2: be Tyler Shelvin. He was heavy at LSU, he had
Speaker 2: weight issues in Cincinnati. He was in training camp with
Speaker 2: the Titans last year, got released at the end of camp,
Speaker 2: did not get picked up during the course of the season.
Speaker 2: I think the Tyler Shelvin NFL career has probably come
Speaker 2: and gone.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree, I'd be very surprised if it's Tyler
Speaker 4: Shelvin that they bring off the street. Like I said
Speaker 4: right before, you know, between college free agency period, that
Speaker 4: signing period in training camp, yeah, I mean, you get
Speaker 4: released in training camp and nobody else picks up and
Speaker 4: now I mean not even practice squad. You're available to
Speaker 4: be on a practice squad. You know it's nobody did that,
Speaker 4: So I think you don't have to be a genius
Speaker 4: to read those tea leaves.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: Another epic pre draft podcast is in the books Lapham
Speaker 2: Wants Latham.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is the bottom line from this podcast.
Speaker 3: My brother from another mother.
Speaker 2: Well, the Bengals got the eighteenth most valuable player in
Speaker 2: the nineteen seventy four draft when they took Lapham hopefully
Speaker 2: at pick number eighteen. They're going to get a very
Speaker 2: valuable player this year and it might just be Latham.
Speaker 3: I'd be all four it. I would toast that pick.
Speaker 2: Here's a quick reminder that I'll post new editions of
Speaker 2: this podcast after each day of the draft. You'll hear
Speaker 2: from the selections from Bengals coaches, and I'll discuss the
Speaker 2: pick with Dave Lapham.
Speaker 1: That's going to do it for this episode.
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Speaker 2: more Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan Hord and thanks
Speaker 2: for listening to the Bengals Booth podcast