1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:22,596 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey, it's Jake. I hope you enjoyed our season 2 00:00:22,796 --> 00:00:26,356 Speaker 1: The Truth about Sarah. We'll be having a live event 3 00:00:26,596 --> 00:00:29,916 Speaker 1: later this year. It's going to be a conversation between 4 00:00:29,996 --> 00:00:33,876 Speaker 1: me and my co host Jess McHugh, and we want 5 00:00:33,916 --> 00:00:37,396 Speaker 1: to hear from you too. What questions do you have 6 00:00:37,556 --> 00:00:41,516 Speaker 1: for us about this season? Send your questions to deep 7 00:00:41,636 --> 00:00:45,636 Speaker 1: Cover at Pushkin dot fm. That's deep Cover All one 8 00:00:45,716 --> 00:00:49,836 Speaker 1: word at Pushkin dot fm and stay tuned for more 9 00:00:49,876 --> 00:00:55,196 Speaker 1: details on this event. Previously on deep Cover. 10 00:00:56,236 --> 00:01:01,476 Speaker 2: She explained to me that she just got out of 11 00:01:01,636 --> 00:01:05,556 Speaker 2: the Marine Corps and she needed help with some car 12 00:01:05,556 --> 00:01:09,116 Speaker 2: payments because she was waiting for via disability to kick out. 13 00:01:09,796 --> 00:01:14,516 Speaker 3: She was very likable, she was very charismatic, and then 14 00:01:14,596 --> 00:01:17,796 Speaker 3: on top of it, she was a veteran and badass 15 00:01:17,916 --> 00:01:22,916 Speaker 3: and had these injuries. We would kind of quietly make 16 00:01:22,956 --> 00:01:25,436 Speaker 3: sure that when she was in our environment at the gym, 17 00:01:25,516 --> 00:01:26,476 Speaker 3: she was protected. 18 00:01:28,276 --> 00:01:31,876 Speaker 2: So I call up our records keeper and I say, hey, 19 00:01:31,996 --> 00:01:35,916 Speaker 2: I need a copy of her DD Form two fourteen 20 00:01:36,396 --> 00:01:39,396 Speaker 2: and he said, ooh, she just left my house two 21 00:01:39,476 --> 00:01:42,596 Speaker 2: hours ago. She came here to the house to come 22 00:01:42,676 --> 00:01:58,676 Speaker 2: get it. That's when I start thinking something's not right here, So. 23 00:01:59,636 --> 00:02:01,596 Speaker 4: Like here, right when I get up in the morning, 24 00:02:01,636 --> 00:02:04,036 Speaker 4: I make it a point to go outside. 25 00:02:04,556 --> 00:02:08,116 Speaker 1: This is Sarah Katanaugh. She's the person you've been hearing 26 00:02:08,116 --> 00:02:10,836 Speaker 1: about for the past two episodes, and. 27 00:02:10,916 --> 00:02:14,996 Speaker 4: Like, step outside by myself, see the sunrise, look at 28 00:02:15,036 --> 00:02:18,516 Speaker 4: the view because the view behind overlooks the mountains, and 29 00:02:19,076 --> 00:02:23,036 Speaker 4: really enjoy that and just let that be the start 30 00:02:23,076 --> 00:02:27,356 Speaker 4: of my day versus some of the intrusive thoughts about 31 00:02:27,396 --> 00:02:29,356 Speaker 4: the past that would come up before, and I would 32 00:02:29,436 --> 00:02:32,836 Speaker 4: let that dictate my day. So I've really changed how 33 00:02:32,876 --> 00:02:37,196 Speaker 4: I let the past affect my moods, so I don't 34 00:02:37,236 --> 00:02:40,036 Speaker 4: become just a continuous repetition of them. 35 00:02:41,516 --> 00:02:44,676 Speaker 1: Jess and I spent the better part of several days 36 00:02:44,836 --> 00:02:48,596 Speaker 1: interviewing Sarah. We talked about her past and her life 37 00:02:48,636 --> 00:02:51,036 Speaker 1: now and a great many other things too. 38 00:02:52,396 --> 00:02:55,876 Speaker 5: How we found her, where we found her. We'll get there. 39 00:02:56,396 --> 00:02:58,036 Speaker 5: You're going to hear from her throughout the rest of 40 00:02:58,036 --> 00:03:01,036 Speaker 5: the season, but for now, we just want you to 41 00:03:01,076 --> 00:03:03,236 Speaker 5: hear some of the very first things that she said 42 00:03:03,316 --> 00:03:05,876 Speaker 5: to us in person, so that you get a read 43 00:03:05,916 --> 00:03:09,716 Speaker 5: on her just like we did. We started with small talk, 44 00:03:10,116 --> 00:03:11,876 Speaker 5: like read any good books lately? 45 00:03:13,316 --> 00:03:17,316 Speaker 4: Right now? I am reading The Secret History by Donna Tart, 46 00:03:17,716 --> 00:03:23,156 Speaker 4: which is interesting. I had read Goldfinch The Goldfinch and 47 00:03:23,196 --> 00:03:26,116 Speaker 4: I loved it, so now I'm reading this one, and 48 00:03:26,116 --> 00:03:27,516 Speaker 4: I'm really enjoying it so far. 49 00:03:29,116 --> 00:03:31,796 Speaker 1: This was just a few minutes into our first conversation. 50 00:03:32,716 --> 00:03:36,116 Speaker 1: At this point, I knew a fair amount about Sarah Cavanaugh, 51 00:03:36,276 --> 00:03:39,676 Speaker 1: what she'd done, about all the people she deceived and hurt. 52 00:03:40,356 --> 00:03:42,316 Speaker 1: I had a pretty good picture in my head of 53 00:03:42,316 --> 00:03:47,516 Speaker 1: who she was, and this this was not it. This woman, well, 54 00:03:47,756 --> 00:03:50,476 Speaker 1: she sounded more like a high school guidance counselor or 55 00:03:50,876 --> 00:03:52,836 Speaker 1: the type of person you'd hope would be taking care 56 00:03:52,836 --> 00:03:56,356 Speaker 1: of your grandma the senior citizen home. In fact, she 57 00:03:56,436 --> 00:04:00,036 Speaker 1: told us working with seniors that was her first job. 58 00:04:01,076 --> 00:04:04,636 Speaker 4: So I was in undergrad working at an assisted living. 59 00:04:04,676 --> 00:04:07,156 Speaker 4: I worked there for five and a half years, and 60 00:04:07,196 --> 00:04:11,116 Speaker 4: I loved it. I did every thing from serving in 61 00:04:11,156 --> 00:04:15,956 Speaker 4: the dining room to running activities to housekeeping. I did 62 00:04:15,956 --> 00:04:19,276 Speaker 4: anything they asked me to do to basically pay my 63 00:04:19,356 --> 00:04:22,196 Speaker 4: rent and pay my tuition and kind of survive undergrad 64 00:04:22,236 --> 00:04:26,916 Speaker 4: at all costs. But I developed really meaningful relationships with 65 00:04:27,076 --> 00:04:28,236 Speaker 4: the residents. 66 00:04:28,516 --> 00:04:32,156 Speaker 5: Right as I sat there listening to her. I noticed 67 00:04:32,636 --> 00:04:35,916 Speaker 5: Sarah was doing this a lot, ending a sentence by 68 00:04:35,916 --> 00:04:40,556 Speaker 5: saying right. It's kind of subtle. She doesn't yank you 69 00:04:40,636 --> 00:04:43,316 Speaker 5: through her version of events. It's more like she was 70 00:04:43,676 --> 00:04:46,076 Speaker 5: feeling around for things that we might have in common, 71 00:04:46,716 --> 00:04:49,556 Speaker 5: and if we nodded along, she'd say right. 72 00:04:51,116 --> 00:04:53,036 Speaker 4: A lot of people don't like older people. I remember 73 00:04:53,076 --> 00:04:54,556 Speaker 4: a lot of people I worked with who were like, 74 00:04:54,596 --> 00:04:59,796 Speaker 4: she's grouchy, or she's this, or she's that, And I thought, well, 75 00:04:59,836 --> 00:05:04,316 Speaker 4: they've had fifty years to practice right type thing. And also, like, 76 00:05:05,076 --> 00:05:07,316 Speaker 4: I always think about our moods as a product of 77 00:05:07,356 --> 00:05:11,836 Speaker 4: something else, right, I know that personally, and so I 78 00:05:11,916 --> 00:05:14,276 Speaker 4: just think there was an appreciation there for me. But 79 00:05:15,316 --> 00:05:18,036 Speaker 4: I didn't really know where that was going to go. 80 00:05:18,076 --> 00:05:19,196 Speaker 4: I think I thought I was going to be like 81 00:05:19,196 --> 00:05:21,156 Speaker 4: an activities director or something like that. 82 00:05:22,276 --> 00:05:26,116 Speaker 1: But instead she got her master's and became a social worker. 83 00:05:26,676 --> 00:05:30,196 Speaker 1: Eventually she got a job at the local VA in Providence, 84 00:05:30,276 --> 00:05:34,396 Speaker 1: Rhode Island. That was her job, helping veterans in some 85 00:05:34,436 --> 00:05:37,876 Speaker 1: pretty tough situations. And this is one hundred percent true. 86 00:05:37,916 --> 00:05:41,276 Speaker 1: By the way, many of these people coming to Sarah 87 00:05:41,316 --> 00:05:44,876 Speaker 1: for help, they showed up maybe on a Saturday kind 88 00:05:44,876 --> 00:05:48,596 Speaker 1: of reluctantly, and it was Sarah's job to put them 89 00:05:48,596 --> 00:05:48,996 Speaker 1: at ease. 90 00:05:50,276 --> 00:05:54,436 Speaker 4: I would just say, hey, how are you like, it's Saturday, 91 00:05:54,836 --> 00:05:57,476 Speaker 4: you know, what's how do you feel about this? How 92 00:05:57,476 --> 00:05:59,036 Speaker 4: do you feel about being here? And if they were like, 93 00:05:59,196 --> 00:06:00,556 Speaker 4: I really don't want to be here. I had to 94 00:06:00,556 --> 00:06:02,476 Speaker 4: get up early and I had to drive to Providence, 95 00:06:02,556 --> 00:06:04,476 Speaker 4: and I'd be like, yeah, I understand. 96 00:06:05,756 --> 00:06:09,636 Speaker 1: When her clients did open up. Sarah took this approach. 97 00:06:10,836 --> 00:06:14,636 Speaker 4: When someone said something like I'm you know, I'm struggling 98 00:06:14,636 --> 00:06:17,676 Speaker 4: with I might be homeless, or my my wife and 99 00:06:17,676 --> 00:06:21,276 Speaker 4: I are fighting, or something like that, I wouldn't respond 100 00:06:21,716 --> 00:06:27,036 Speaker 4: with surprise. I would just be like, yeah, those things happen. 101 00:06:28,196 --> 00:06:30,916 Speaker 4: Those things happen, and okay, what do you think you 102 00:06:30,996 --> 00:06:31,716 Speaker 4: need right now? 103 00:06:31,756 --> 00:06:35,556 Speaker 1: Because of that, what she never wanted to do was 104 00:06:35,596 --> 00:06:39,756 Speaker 1: send veterans elsewhere to some other program, you know, push 105 00:06:39,836 --> 00:06:41,076 Speaker 1: them off on someone else. 106 00:06:42,116 --> 00:06:44,636 Speaker 4: I know that when I've opened up and told people things, 107 00:06:45,196 --> 00:06:47,876 Speaker 4: if they've turned away from it because it makes them uncomfortable, 108 00:06:47,996 --> 00:06:51,316 Speaker 4: I've then kind of thought, oh, this makes other people 109 00:06:51,316 --> 00:06:51,996 Speaker 4: feel uncomfortable. 110 00:06:51,996 --> 00:06:53,436 Speaker 1: Shouldn't talk about this, right? 111 00:06:53,436 --> 00:06:56,956 Speaker 4: And I don't want to do that to them, but 112 00:06:57,036 --> 00:07:01,996 Speaker 4: you have to be present in a way that silently 113 00:07:02,076 --> 00:07:03,396 Speaker 4: says I get it. 114 00:07:06,916 --> 00:07:09,476 Speaker 5: When she talked about her old life as a social worker, 115 00:07:10,116 --> 00:07:12,236 Speaker 5: I got this strange sense that I was seeing the 116 00:07:12,276 --> 00:07:16,716 Speaker 5: Sarah Kavanaugh that won over everybody's hearts. Because, let's be clear, 117 00:07:17,396 --> 00:07:20,396 Speaker 5: the people we interviewed for this story, once upon a time, 118 00:07:20,956 --> 00:07:24,956 Speaker 5: they all loved Sarah, and listening to her talk, started 119 00:07:24,956 --> 00:07:29,556 Speaker 5: to understand why she knew, in her own words, how 120 00:07:29,596 --> 00:07:32,476 Speaker 5: to be present in a way that silently says, I 121 00:07:32,516 --> 00:07:35,996 Speaker 5: get it. It's weird to say, but I found her 122 00:07:36,036 --> 00:07:39,676 Speaker 5: really likable by the time we met in person. I've 123 00:07:39,716 --> 00:07:41,996 Speaker 5: been talking to her over the phone for nearly a year, 124 00:07:42,636 --> 00:07:45,076 Speaker 5: and I've been hearing about all the terrible things she'd 125 00:07:45,116 --> 00:07:49,796 Speaker 5: done for just as long. Sarah, she seems pretty aware 126 00:07:49,796 --> 00:07:53,836 Speaker 5: of her effect on people then and now, of all 127 00:07:53,836 --> 00:07:58,756 Speaker 5: the ways big and small said and unsaid that people 128 00:07:58,796 --> 00:08:02,196 Speaker 5: come to trust each other to trust her. 129 00:08:03,516 --> 00:08:05,876 Speaker 4: I've always been told I'm a really good listener, right, 130 00:08:06,196 --> 00:08:11,116 Speaker 4: and I maximized that while I was lying people. When 131 00:08:11,156 --> 00:08:17,396 Speaker 4: you create space, people fill that space. And I had 132 00:08:17,396 --> 00:08:21,796 Speaker 4: always been really I had always been able to kind 133 00:08:21,836 --> 00:08:23,436 Speaker 4: of keep my mouth shut and be quiet and not 134 00:08:23,476 --> 00:08:25,636 Speaker 4: share anything. I'd really learned that really well. 135 00:08:30,876 --> 00:08:34,116 Speaker 1: Sarah went on from there, talking about her old job 136 00:08:34,236 --> 00:08:38,116 Speaker 1: and who she once was, because, as you might have guessed, 137 00:08:38,396 --> 00:08:41,796 Speaker 1: she's no longer a social worker. She has another life now, 138 00:08:42,356 --> 00:08:45,276 Speaker 1: very different life, one in which she has a great 139 00:08:45,316 --> 00:08:48,356 Speaker 1: deal of time to think about what she did and 140 00:08:48,436 --> 00:08:50,196 Speaker 1: the people she hurt most. 141 00:08:50,996 --> 00:08:52,636 Speaker 4: I don't think it's ever going to be easy to 142 00:08:52,716 --> 00:08:57,516 Speaker 4: think about the people I hurt, and because these are 143 00:08:57,556 --> 00:09:02,916 Speaker 4: people that even before they knew I heard them right, 144 00:09:03,596 --> 00:09:06,236 Speaker 4: I was hurting them right because I was lying to them. 145 00:09:06,796 --> 00:09:10,876 Speaker 4: And they were people I called every day, that I 146 00:09:10,916 --> 00:09:16,676 Speaker 4: spent most of my weekends with, that they were my friends, 147 00:09:16,756 --> 00:09:21,396 Speaker 4: some of them my best friends. And I think about 148 00:09:21,396 --> 00:09:24,076 Speaker 4: that now, I mean, that's really hard. 149 00:09:26,516 --> 00:09:30,996 Speaker 1: When Sarah says this, she's really talking about two people 150 00:09:31,156 --> 00:09:34,956 Speaker 1: who trusted her deeply. In this episode, we're going to 151 00:09:35,036 --> 00:09:38,436 Speaker 1: hear from both of them. And these aren't just stories 152 00:09:38,476 --> 00:09:42,636 Speaker 1: about friendship. They're about what happens when you meet someone 153 00:09:42,996 --> 00:09:46,356 Speaker 1: a confidant who seems to get you and understand what 154 00:09:46,356 --> 00:09:51,836 Speaker 1: you're going through, someone who listens quietly with what seems 155 00:09:51,876 --> 00:09:56,556 Speaker 1: like empathy. But here in lies the danger. What if 156 00:09:56,596 --> 00:10:00,556 Speaker 1: that very person takes your most personal struggles and uses 157 00:10:00,596 --> 00:10:05,036 Speaker 1: them to their advantage, sees them as an opportunity. Then 158 00:10:05,436 --> 00:10:10,276 Speaker 1: the line between empathy and manipulation is thinner than we'd 159 00:10:10,276 --> 00:10:13,876 Speaker 1: care to admit. And sometimes the people who know us 160 00:10:14,036 --> 00:10:31,716 Speaker 1: best are the ones we should fear the most. I'm 161 00:10:31,796 --> 00:10:36,516 Speaker 1: Jay Calburn and I'm Jess mchuughe and this is Deep 162 00:10:36,556 --> 00:11:11,596 Speaker 1: Cover Season six, The Truth About Sarah, Episode three, The Confidante. 163 00:11:20,956 --> 00:11:23,796 Speaker 5: Last fall, Jake and I, along with our producer Amy, 164 00:11:24,036 --> 00:11:26,956 Speaker 5: went on a road trip to Rhode Island. We wanted 165 00:11:26,956 --> 00:11:30,116 Speaker 5: to meet the people in Sarah's inner circle, people who 166 00:11:30,116 --> 00:11:33,356 Speaker 5: were closest to her, who each knew some part of 167 00:11:33,436 --> 00:11:36,996 Speaker 5: the truth. One morning, Amy and I went to meet 168 00:11:36,996 --> 00:11:39,636 Speaker 5: someone named Sam. We're just going to use her first 169 00:11:39,716 --> 00:11:43,156 Speaker 5: name to protect her privacy. We spoke at her boyfriend's house, 170 00:11:43,436 --> 00:11:46,876 Speaker 5: sitting around the kitchen table. Sam is in her fifties 171 00:11:46,996 --> 00:11:51,076 Speaker 5: with short blonde hair. She's a physical therapist and for 172 00:11:51,196 --> 00:11:54,116 Speaker 5: years she was Sarah's physical therapist. 173 00:11:54,596 --> 00:11:59,716 Speaker 6: She was really kind. She definitely knew me, and she 174 00:12:00,276 --> 00:12:05,396 Speaker 6: knew I think what I wanted to talk about type thing, 175 00:12:05,996 --> 00:12:06,876 Speaker 6: if that makes sense. 176 00:12:07,276 --> 00:12:09,996 Speaker 5: What was it that drew you to her in those early. 177 00:12:10,036 --> 00:12:15,036 Speaker 6: Yeaies, it definitely was her intelligence. I mean her intelligence 178 00:12:15,156 --> 00:12:17,716 Speaker 6: like just sparked something in me. 179 00:12:19,036 --> 00:12:21,636 Speaker 5: Sarah and Sam first met in the fall of twenty eighteen, 180 00:12:22,276 --> 00:12:25,236 Speaker 5: just a few months after Sarah's wedding to Nicole, the 181 00:12:25,236 --> 00:12:29,076 Speaker 5: wedding attended by all her VFW friends. By this point, 182 00:12:29,556 --> 00:12:33,756 Speaker 5: Sarah was fully immersed in this veteran role. Sam told 183 00:12:33,756 --> 00:12:35,836 Speaker 5: me about the moment when Sarah first came in for 184 00:12:35,876 --> 00:12:36,596 Speaker 5: a consultation. 185 00:12:37,756 --> 00:12:39,636 Speaker 6: She was really quiet and reserved. 186 00:12:41,196 --> 00:12:41,396 Speaker 7: You know. 187 00:12:41,516 --> 00:12:44,636 Speaker 6: She answered questions, but very kind of matter of fact, 188 00:12:46,476 --> 00:12:49,956 Speaker 6: definitely seemed like things were she was uncomfortable with, Like 189 00:12:49,956 --> 00:12:52,036 Speaker 6: she didn't want me to look at her hip. 190 00:12:53,316 --> 00:12:55,916 Speaker 5: This was the Sarah who, in her own words, had 191 00:12:55,916 --> 00:12:58,756 Speaker 5: always been able to quote, keep her mouth shut and 192 00:12:58,796 --> 00:13:02,116 Speaker 5: be quiet and not share anything, someone who let the 193 00:13:02,156 --> 00:13:05,716 Speaker 5: silences do the talking. But Sarah did say she had 194 00:13:05,716 --> 00:13:06,916 Speaker 5: been injured in Iraq. 195 00:13:07,596 --> 00:13:10,996 Speaker 6: She said they hit an id and she got hit 196 00:13:11,036 --> 00:13:12,796 Speaker 6: with the door that got blown in and a hitter 197 00:13:12,916 --> 00:13:15,116 Speaker 6: and the hit. She wasn't really limping this because this 198 00:13:15,156 --> 00:13:17,356 Speaker 6: wasn't a brand new injury. This is something that happened 199 00:13:17,396 --> 00:13:18,956 Speaker 6: a long time ago, so it was more like a 200 00:13:19,036 --> 00:13:19,796 Speaker 6: chronic thing. 201 00:13:20,676 --> 00:13:23,796 Speaker 5: Sam had worked with trauma patients before, so when Sarah 202 00:13:23,836 --> 00:13:27,916 Speaker 5: didn't want to show Sam her scar, she didn't push. Plus, 203 00:13:28,316 --> 00:13:31,596 Speaker 5: she already knew a little about Sarah's supposed military past 204 00:13:32,076 --> 00:13:36,276 Speaker 5: because one of Sarah's Jim buddies had connected them. Sarah 205 00:13:36,276 --> 00:13:39,516 Speaker 5: got into a routine of twice weekly pt with Sam, 206 00:13:40,116 --> 00:13:44,076 Speaker 5: and eventually the Wounded Warrior Project started paying for it. 207 00:13:44,916 --> 00:13:48,956 Speaker 5: Sarah was part of their Independence Program. It's super selective 208 00:13:48,996 --> 00:13:53,556 Speaker 5: program for the most severely wounded veterans, usually people with 209 00:13:53,596 --> 00:13:58,956 Speaker 5: traumatic brain injuries, which Sarah claimed she had. Over many 210 00:13:58,996 --> 00:14:02,076 Speaker 5: months of these weekly appointments, these two women became friends. 211 00:14:02,636 --> 00:14:06,996 Speaker 5: They talk about nature, gardening, or books they both love reading. 212 00:14:07,876 --> 00:14:10,956 Speaker 5: They also talked about more in smith things. Sam was 213 00:14:10,996 --> 00:14:13,996 Speaker 5: recently divorced, and Sarah told her in that way she 214 00:14:14,076 --> 00:14:17,556 Speaker 5: does so well, I get it. My marriage isn't working 215 00:14:17,556 --> 00:14:22,996 Speaker 5: out either. Yeah, that's right. Sarah told Sam that she 216 00:14:23,196 --> 00:14:25,436 Speaker 5: was also getting divorced. 217 00:14:26,316 --> 00:14:28,316 Speaker 6: It was less than a year after they got married 218 00:14:28,556 --> 00:14:32,836 Speaker 6: that she said that just the marriage wasn't working out 219 00:14:32,916 --> 00:14:38,436 Speaker 6: and did they were separated, but she also said they 220 00:14:38,436 --> 00:14:39,836 Speaker 6: did have an open marriage. 221 00:14:40,356 --> 00:14:43,316 Speaker 5: None of this was true, at least not according to 222 00:14:43,356 --> 00:14:47,596 Speaker 5: Sarah's wife, Nicole. At the time, they were still living together, 223 00:14:48,236 --> 00:14:53,396 Speaker 5: still married, and not in an open marriage. But that's 224 00:14:53,436 --> 00:14:57,476 Speaker 5: not what she told Sam. This, by the way, is 225 00:14:57,516 --> 00:15:00,956 Speaker 5: also classic Sarah, as we've learned, and it's a pattern 226 00:15:00,996 --> 00:15:04,756 Speaker 5: I've seen with women scammers in general. They often find 227 00:15:04,836 --> 00:15:08,956 Speaker 5: emotional common ground with victims, even when that shared trauma 228 00:15:09,276 --> 00:15:12,516 Speaker 5: is totally made up. And it worked. 229 00:15:14,196 --> 00:15:20,236 Speaker 6: I think, like anything, basically, just you spend more time 230 00:15:20,276 --> 00:15:23,156 Speaker 6: with someone and then you just appreciate who that person is, 231 00:15:23,316 --> 00:15:25,756 Speaker 6: and then you find yourself wanting to spend more and 232 00:15:25,796 --> 00:15:28,676 Speaker 6: more time. We just like enjoyed our time together and 233 00:15:28,716 --> 00:15:30,036 Speaker 6: then it just turned into more. 234 00:15:31,236 --> 00:15:35,236 Speaker 5: And by more, Sam means Sam and Sarah went from 235 00:15:35,276 --> 00:15:39,196 Speaker 5: having a professional relationship to a friendship to a love 236 00:15:39,236 --> 00:15:42,836 Speaker 5: affair one that was really romantic. Started going on a 237 00:15:42,836 --> 00:15:43,796 Speaker 5: ton of trips together. 238 00:15:45,476 --> 00:15:50,716 Speaker 6: Let's see, we went to Florida, we went to Vail, 239 00:15:50,996 --> 00:15:55,676 Speaker 6: we went to the Bahamas, so we went to California, 240 00:15:57,716 --> 00:16:00,756 Speaker 6: and then like you know, little driving around New England 241 00:16:00,836 --> 00:16:03,556 Speaker 6: type stuff, and it wasn't just a fling. 242 00:16:03,996 --> 00:16:07,316 Speaker 5: Their lives became really entwined. Much of this I actually 243 00:16:07,396 --> 00:16:11,196 Speaker 5: learned from other interviews. Sarah would talk about Sam as 244 00:16:11,236 --> 00:16:14,716 Speaker 5: her partner so much that it got really confusing for 245 00:16:14,876 --> 00:16:18,636 Speaker 5: us as we reported this. There were times I would 246 00:16:18,676 --> 00:16:21,596 Speaker 5: talk to someone for this story and they'd mentioned Sarah's 247 00:16:21,596 --> 00:16:25,356 Speaker 5: significant other, and I had to double check, who did 248 00:16:25,396 --> 00:16:29,316 Speaker 5: you think was Sarah's wife? A woman named Sam or 249 00:16:29,316 --> 00:16:35,036 Speaker 5: a woman named Nicole. Oftentimes people said Sam Sarah was 250 00:16:35,076 --> 00:16:37,796 Speaker 5: living a full on double life with Sam, a second 251 00:16:37,876 --> 00:16:40,756 Speaker 5: double life because she was still living with her actual 252 00:16:40,796 --> 00:16:45,076 Speaker 5: wife at the time, Nicole. Still, Sarah found a way 253 00:16:45,116 --> 00:16:48,036 Speaker 5: to spend lots of time with Sam. In fact, Sarah 254 00:16:48,076 --> 00:16:52,236 Speaker 5: and Sam would socialize with Sarah's VFW pals. Sam met 255 00:16:52,276 --> 00:16:56,196 Speaker 5: Sarah's mom and a brother. Sarah told Sam she was 256 00:16:56,236 --> 00:16:59,396 Speaker 5: really close with her five siblings and talked about them 257 00:16:59,476 --> 00:17:00,076 Speaker 5: all the time. 258 00:17:00,796 --> 00:17:02,916 Speaker 6: She told me that she had a twin who was 259 00:17:02,956 --> 00:17:05,876 Speaker 6: also marine and died in combat, and then she had 260 00:17:05,916 --> 00:17:09,676 Speaker 6: two older brothers and they were all like in the military. Yeah, 261 00:17:09,716 --> 00:17:11,796 Speaker 6: and she said that her dad was a two star general. 262 00:17:12,556 --> 00:17:15,476 Speaker 5: Sarah would show Sam pictures of her five brothers with 263 00:17:15,516 --> 00:17:21,396 Speaker 5: their wives and kids, Brody, Joel, Oliver. She'd tell her 264 00:17:21,436 --> 00:17:23,836 Speaker 5: about their marriage spats, or what they were dealing with 265 00:17:23,916 --> 00:17:28,476 Speaker 5: at work, about their childhood growing up in Georgia. One 266 00:17:28,516 --> 00:17:33,676 Speaker 5: brother in particular was worrying Sarah Joel. She told Sam 267 00:17:33,796 --> 00:17:36,636 Speaker 5: that he was also a VET who now did private 268 00:17:36,756 --> 00:17:37,956 Speaker 5: military contracting. 269 00:17:39,316 --> 00:17:41,276 Speaker 6: He decided that he was going to do this mission 270 00:17:41,836 --> 00:17:45,076 Speaker 6: because they would make a lot of money for these missions. 271 00:17:45,716 --> 00:17:48,676 Speaker 5: Sarah told Sam that while Joel was on this mission, 272 00:17:49,036 --> 00:17:52,556 Speaker 5: he got shot and ended up in a coma, and 273 00:17:52,596 --> 00:17:55,516 Speaker 5: that her mom flew to the Middle East to bring 274 00:17:55,596 --> 00:18:00,036 Speaker 5: him back to the US, but the doctors couldn't revive him. 275 00:18:00,556 --> 00:18:06,076 Speaker 5: They told Sarah that he would never wake up. One day, 276 00:18:06,156 --> 00:18:09,956 Speaker 5: Sarah tells Sam, I need to fly to Georgia now. 277 00:18:10,916 --> 00:18:12,716 Speaker 5: I have to be the one to take him off 278 00:18:12,756 --> 00:18:13,916 Speaker 5: of life support. 279 00:18:16,356 --> 00:18:17,916 Speaker 6: I said, I'll go with you, and this is gonna 280 00:18:17,916 --> 00:18:19,796 Speaker 6: be a really hard thing. I'll go with you. You know, 281 00:18:19,916 --> 00:18:21,636 Speaker 6: we can fly down there and you know I can 282 00:18:21,676 --> 00:18:23,636 Speaker 6: support you. And She's like, no, no, it's fine, I'll do it. 283 00:18:23,676 --> 00:18:25,436 Speaker 6: And she called me at two o'clock in the morning. 284 00:18:25,636 --> 00:18:27,276 Speaker 6: I'll never freak. She called me at two o'clock in 285 00:18:27,316 --> 00:18:33,196 Speaker 6: the morning and said that it's done and he was gone. 286 00:18:33,516 --> 00:18:38,116 Speaker 5: Sam was devastated for Sarah. Here was this woman dealing 287 00:18:38,156 --> 00:18:43,116 Speaker 5: with all of these injuries and now this, and just 288 00:18:43,156 --> 00:18:45,676 Speaker 5: to zoom out for a second because it can be 289 00:18:45,796 --> 00:18:49,516 Speaker 5: easy to get lost in Sarah's world. The people in 290 00:18:49,556 --> 00:18:53,676 Speaker 5: those photos that Sarah shared, they were real people with 291 00:18:53,836 --> 00:18:57,396 Speaker 5: real lives of their own. They just weren't Sarah's brothers. 292 00:18:58,596 --> 00:19:02,116 Speaker 5: This version of Sarah, the person with the big military 293 00:19:02,156 --> 00:19:06,716 Speaker 5: family from Georgia, it's someone only a few people saw. 294 00:19:07,676 --> 00:19:10,796 Speaker 5: And my take is that. But maybe it's because she 295 00:19:10,836 --> 00:19:14,836 Speaker 5: couldn't really let Sam into her family life, because her 296 00:19:14,876 --> 00:19:18,396 Speaker 5: whole family had watched her Mary Nicole, they'd been to 297 00:19:18,436 --> 00:19:22,996 Speaker 5: the home that she and Cole still shared. But I 298 00:19:22,996 --> 00:19:27,836 Speaker 5: think it's deeper than that. Sarah seems to have understood 299 00:19:27,836 --> 00:19:33,236 Speaker 5: something fundamental. Tragedy brings us together, whether it's a friendship 300 00:19:33,636 --> 00:19:37,476 Speaker 5: or a romantic partnership. Being vulnerable enough with another person 301 00:19:37,636 --> 00:19:40,236 Speaker 5: to let them help you through a crisis, stand by 302 00:19:40,236 --> 00:19:42,836 Speaker 5: you at a funeral or a hospital bed. This is 303 00:19:42,836 --> 00:19:47,236 Speaker 5: where real intimacy is created, and Sarah seems to have 304 00:19:47,276 --> 00:19:55,156 Speaker 5: taken this idea and just run with it. Same of course, 305 00:19:55,596 --> 00:19:58,476 Speaker 5: didn't know any of this at the time. She continued 306 00:19:58,476 --> 00:20:02,396 Speaker 5: bringing Sarah deeper into her world, her real world. 307 00:20:03,196 --> 00:20:05,356 Speaker 6: She was very very meshed into my life. She knew 308 00:20:05,396 --> 00:20:06,916 Speaker 6: my family intimately. 309 00:20:07,916 --> 00:20:11,476 Speaker 5: Sam's mother has been battle stage three ovarian cancer for years. 310 00:20:11,916 --> 00:20:14,036 Speaker 5: So while Sam drove her mother up to Boston for 311 00:20:14,116 --> 00:20:17,956 Speaker 5: treatment at Dana Farber, Sarah would help out. She'd help 312 00:20:17,996 --> 00:20:20,756 Speaker 5: Sam's kids with their homework, plan meals for the family, 313 00:20:21,436 --> 00:20:25,716 Speaker 5: walk her mother's dog, and get this. While Sam was 314 00:20:25,756 --> 00:20:28,836 Speaker 5: taking care of her mother's illness, holding her hand through chemo, 315 00:20:29,556 --> 00:20:32,156 Speaker 5: she was also doing the same for Sarah. Sarah had 316 00:20:32,156 --> 00:20:35,356 Speaker 5: told her the cancer lie too, said she had lung cancer. 317 00:20:36,236 --> 00:20:41,436 Speaker 5: Sarah told Sam, I'm terrified, overwhelmed with medical results. I 318 00:20:41,516 --> 00:20:46,516 Speaker 5: just can't take any more bad news. So Sam started 319 00:20:46,516 --> 00:20:50,396 Speaker 5: receiving Sarah's test results, and then she would be the 320 00:20:50,436 --> 00:20:56,316 Speaker 5: one to relay those results to Sarah more than once. 321 00:20:56,596 --> 00:21:01,036 Speaker 5: Sam remembers sitting anxiously in her pet practice, refreshing her email, 322 00:21:01,476 --> 00:21:02,796 Speaker 5: waiting for results to come in. 323 00:21:03,876 --> 00:21:07,636 Speaker 6: I remember crying in my practice, getting bad, bad news, 324 00:21:08,116 --> 00:21:10,396 Speaker 6: But then I remember getting really great news and then 325 00:21:10,476 --> 00:21:12,836 Speaker 6: being able to tell her and that kind of stuff. 326 00:21:12,876 --> 00:21:14,916 Speaker 8: It was a big rollercoaster. 327 00:21:15,076 --> 00:21:15,636 Speaker 9: It's awful. 328 00:21:16,396 --> 00:21:20,316 Speaker 6: It was awful. Yeah, there was a lot of emotional 329 00:21:20,476 --> 00:21:23,076 Speaker 6: strife on my part, you know, a lot. 330 00:21:24,116 --> 00:21:28,236 Speaker 5: As both Sarah's partner and her caregiver. Sam was in 331 00:21:28,276 --> 00:21:39,036 Speaker 5: Sarah's world twice over totally enmeshed. Fast forward to January 332 00:21:39,116 --> 00:21:43,396 Speaker 5: twenty twenty two, the moment when everything started to spiral 333 00:21:43,436 --> 00:21:47,956 Speaker 5: out of control. News was getting around that Sarah may 334 00:21:47,996 --> 00:21:51,876 Speaker 5: have lied about a great many things, including her service 335 00:21:51,876 --> 00:21:56,036 Speaker 5: in the Marines, her medals, possibly even her claims of 336 00:21:56,076 --> 00:22:02,156 Speaker 5: having cancer. When the news first reached Sam, she was 337 00:22:02,196 --> 00:22:05,596 Speaker 5: in total disbelief. She'd seen a pile of proof over 338 00:22:05,636 --> 00:22:09,716 Speaker 5: the years, her enrollment in the Wounded Warrior Independent Program, 339 00:22:10,356 --> 00:22:13,836 Speaker 5: years of blood work that she'd received directly from the VA. 340 00:22:15,116 --> 00:22:17,236 Speaker 5: Sam was trying to wrap her head around this, so 341 00:22:17,276 --> 00:22:19,796 Speaker 5: she hopped on the phone with one of Sarah's VFW buddies, 342 00:22:20,156 --> 00:22:22,836 Speaker 5: a guy named Justin. Had gotten to know each other 343 00:22:22,876 --> 00:22:25,196 Speaker 5: over the years. She wanted his perspective. 344 00:22:26,116 --> 00:22:26,956 Speaker 6: Can you believe this? 345 00:22:26,956 --> 00:22:27,636 Speaker 8: This is crazy. 346 00:22:27,676 --> 00:22:30,396 Speaker 6: Someone's making this up, you know, Like, why would they 347 00:22:30,396 --> 00:22:32,076 Speaker 6: do this? Why would they make this up about her? 348 00:22:32,116 --> 00:22:36,436 Speaker 6: This is insane, Sam told Justin. 349 00:22:37,116 --> 00:22:41,796 Speaker 5: I've seen years of medical documents, even her cancer diagnosis. 350 00:22:42,516 --> 00:22:47,356 Speaker 5: There's no way Sarah's lying. How would someone even make 351 00:22:47,396 --> 00:22:51,796 Speaker 5: that up? More after the break. 352 00:23:01,716 --> 00:23:04,516 Speaker 1: While Jess was meeting with Sam, I was just a 353 00:23:04,556 --> 00:23:08,236 Speaker 1: few miles away meeting with Justin. He's the guy that 354 00:23:08,396 --> 00:23:11,436 Speaker 1: Sam called to get a reality check. When the rumors 355 00:23:11,476 --> 00:23:15,796 Speaker 1: first started, Justin was one of Sarah's buddies from the VFW, 356 00:23:16,556 --> 00:23:20,636 Speaker 1: and initially, like Sam, he was very much in disbelief. 357 00:23:21,516 --> 00:23:26,196 Speaker 1: Even now, knowing everything he knows about Sarah, Justin still 358 00:23:26,276 --> 00:23:29,196 Speaker 1: struggles to wrap his head around everything that happened. 359 00:23:30,236 --> 00:23:33,876 Speaker 9: I'll be honest, I was a little hesitant to kind 360 00:23:33,876 --> 00:23:37,996 Speaker 9: of relive this, but I think now we're going to 361 00:23:38,036 --> 00:23:42,156 Speaker 9: tell a story, I think it needs to be told fully, 362 00:23:42,196 --> 00:23:43,756 Speaker 9: and so that's that's why I'm here. 363 00:23:44,716 --> 00:23:48,236 Speaker 1: Justin is in his early fifties. He's fit, he looks 364 00:23:48,236 --> 00:23:50,356 Speaker 1: like he could be part of a marketing campaign for 365 00:23:50,516 --> 00:23:55,556 Speaker 1: Peloton or something, and he has this really disarming, gentle 366 00:23:55,636 --> 00:23:58,716 Speaker 1: energy about him. Feels like an old soul to me. 367 00:24:00,236 --> 00:24:02,796 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to Justin for a whole bunch 368 00:24:02,836 --> 00:24:08,676 Speaker 1: of reasons, but mainly because Justin's story. It's really compelling 369 00:24:08,676 --> 00:24:12,396 Speaker 1: in its own right, which is probably why Sarah was 370 00:24:12,476 --> 00:24:16,916 Speaker 1: drawn to it. Justin spent most of his career as 371 00:24:16,916 --> 00:24:20,676 Speaker 1: an officer in the Navy as an aviator, and when 372 00:24:20,676 --> 00:24:23,356 Speaker 1: he looks back on his life on all the dangers, 373 00:24:23,636 --> 00:24:27,036 Speaker 1: all the near misses, all those moments that quietly changed 374 00:24:27,036 --> 00:24:30,316 Speaker 1: the course of things. He often thinks back to two 375 00:24:30,356 --> 00:24:33,076 Speaker 1: thousand and eight, when he was in his mid thirties 376 00:24:33,556 --> 00:24:38,196 Speaker 1: stationed in Iraq, and what he remembers is the fog. 377 00:24:39,116 --> 00:24:42,276 Speaker 1: The fog came every night, thick and heavy with the wind. 378 00:24:43,356 --> 00:24:47,116 Speaker 1: It got so bad some nights they could barely breathe 379 00:24:47,156 --> 00:24:49,876 Speaker 1: this fog. It would stay with Justin in the years 380 00:24:49,916 --> 00:24:52,996 Speaker 1: to come in ways that he could never have foreseen. 381 00:24:53,556 --> 00:24:56,516 Speaker 1: It would lead him right into the haze of Sarah 382 00:24:56,596 --> 00:25:02,356 Speaker 1: Kavanaugh's deceptions. The fog in Iraq. It started like this. 383 00:25:03,476 --> 00:25:06,796 Speaker 9: We weren't on a base called Taji, which is outside 384 00:25:06,796 --> 00:25:11,716 Speaker 9: of Baghdad, and we're we lived. We had this kind 385 00:25:11,756 --> 00:25:15,596 Speaker 9: of compound area. It was about fifty yards from a 386 00:25:15,596 --> 00:25:20,996 Speaker 9: burn pit. And at night the wind would shift and 387 00:25:21,076 --> 00:25:25,796 Speaker 9: our whole living area was enveloped in what was a fog. 388 00:25:25,836 --> 00:25:28,236 Speaker 9: You couldn't you. You could barely see in front of you, 389 00:25:29,116 --> 00:25:31,636 Speaker 9: a fog of what smelt like burning plastic. Every night. 390 00:25:33,156 --> 00:25:36,756 Speaker 1: This fog that Justin's talking about, it's really a miasma 391 00:25:36,796 --> 00:25:40,676 Speaker 1: of smoke and fumes. It came from a burn pit, 392 00:25:41,076 --> 00:25:44,276 Speaker 1: which is how the military disposed of waste in both 393 00:25:44,316 --> 00:25:46,436 Speaker 1: Iraq and Afghanistan. 394 00:25:47,636 --> 00:25:50,356 Speaker 9: Like, when you eat, there's no there's not there's no 395 00:25:50,436 --> 00:25:52,796 Speaker 9: water to do dishes. So when you go eat, everything 396 00:25:52,876 --> 00:25:56,756 Speaker 9: is off plastic and that all gets thrown away. They 397 00:25:56,796 --> 00:25:59,636 Speaker 9: dig a big pit. They throw all this stuff, plastic, 398 00:25:59,876 --> 00:26:03,516 Speaker 9: medical waste, batteries, whatever, into this giant pit. They throw 399 00:26:03,716 --> 00:26:05,436 Speaker 9: jet fuel on it and they light it on fire. 400 00:26:07,156 --> 00:26:10,916 Speaker 1: Justin was responsible for nearly five HUND service members. Their 401 00:26:10,956 --> 00:26:14,476 Speaker 1: safety was on his shoulders, and he and his leadership 402 00:26:14,516 --> 00:26:17,796 Speaker 1: team were worried about the long term effects of the fog. 403 00:26:19,116 --> 00:26:21,556 Speaker 9: We knew this wasn't gonna be good, right, and the 404 00:26:21,596 --> 00:26:24,676 Speaker 9: contractor kept claiming that they do They did air tests 405 00:26:24,716 --> 00:26:27,036 Speaker 9: and it was it was, it was okay, But I 406 00:26:27,316 --> 00:26:28,516 Speaker 9: didn't buy that for a second. 407 00:26:30,036 --> 00:26:33,316 Speaker 1: Then one day it all kind of came to a head. 408 00:26:34,156 --> 00:26:37,316 Speaker 9: My master chief and I actually drove out there to 409 00:26:37,396 --> 00:26:40,796 Speaker 9: the burn pit because we just saw this thick black 410 00:26:40,836 --> 00:26:43,756 Speaker 9: smoke coming out, and we're like, what the hell's going on? 411 00:26:44,596 --> 00:26:47,236 Speaker 9: And we went out there and you know, just like 412 00:26:47,436 --> 00:26:49,636 Speaker 9: yelled at the guy basically like what the hell are 413 00:26:49,636 --> 00:26:50,036 Speaker 9: you doing? 414 00:26:51,436 --> 00:26:54,716 Speaker 1: Justin says the contractor just shrugged and said that's what 415 00:26:54,756 --> 00:26:59,236 Speaker 1: I was told to do. No explanations, just business as usual. 416 00:27:01,556 --> 00:27:04,316 Speaker 1: It would be more than a decade later before Justin 417 00:27:04,396 --> 00:27:08,236 Speaker 1: learned the real consequences of those burn pits. By then, 418 00:27:08,476 --> 00:27:10,436 Speaker 1: he was living in Rhode Island with his wife and 419 00:27:10,516 --> 00:27:14,036 Speaker 1: three kids. He was happily retired from the military. All 420 00:27:14,156 --> 00:27:17,596 Speaker 1: was good until he started to feel this small ache. 421 00:27:18,276 --> 00:27:20,636 Speaker 9: I felt like, what it was a slightly pinched nerve 422 00:27:20,676 --> 00:27:23,756 Speaker 9: on my left chest. And you know, I exercise, so 423 00:27:23,956 --> 00:27:26,156 Speaker 9: I get pinched nerves and stuff for once in a while. 424 00:27:26,156 --> 00:27:28,596 Speaker 9: So I'm like, oh, it'll just go away. 425 00:27:28,636 --> 00:27:32,556 Speaker 1: But it didn't go away, and eventually Justin's doctor at 426 00:27:32,596 --> 00:27:35,756 Speaker 1: the VA suggested that he get a CT scan just 427 00:27:35,796 --> 00:27:39,276 Speaker 1: to be safe. That's when they found the mass in 428 00:27:39,276 --> 00:27:45,276 Speaker 1: his lungs. At first, the doctors told him not to worry. 429 00:27:45,356 --> 00:27:48,396 Speaker 1: It probably wasn't anything too serious. I mean, he was 430 00:27:48,396 --> 00:27:53,036 Speaker 1: so young, so healthy, so fit. But then he went 431 00:27:53,076 --> 00:27:56,956 Speaker 1: to see a pulmonologist at the VA and learned he 432 00:27:57,036 --> 00:27:58,556 Speaker 1: had stage four lung cancer. 433 00:28:00,556 --> 00:28:04,356 Speaker 9: It was a huge shock. I'm working out, I'm healthy, 434 00:28:04,836 --> 00:28:08,516 Speaker 9: everything's going great, and then someone tells you you're about 435 00:28:08,516 --> 00:28:12,196 Speaker 9: to die. I just like I couldn't wrap my brain 436 00:28:12,236 --> 00:28:14,756 Speaker 9: around it. My wife was I just kind of like 437 00:28:14,796 --> 00:28:15,356 Speaker 9: broke down. 438 00:28:19,436 --> 00:28:23,236 Speaker 1: Justin says his wife had always been his lifeline. Even so, 439 00:28:23,996 --> 00:28:28,956 Speaker 1: this cancer diagnosis was uncharted territory for Justin and his family. 440 00:28:30,156 --> 00:28:35,796 Speaker 9: When you know you're dying, it's a very lonely thing. 441 00:28:36,036 --> 00:28:39,836 Speaker 9: I mean, it's very comforting that I have a family 442 00:28:39,876 --> 00:28:42,796 Speaker 9: around me and a wife to support me and everything. 443 00:28:42,836 --> 00:28:47,636 Speaker 9: But at the same time, you're the one that's dying 444 00:28:48,276 --> 00:28:50,596 Speaker 9: and you're the one going through this personally, and it 445 00:28:51,636 --> 00:28:54,196 Speaker 9: feels like you're very much alone. 446 00:28:55,196 --> 00:28:57,396 Speaker 1: But he did have someone who seemed to get it 447 00:28:57,476 --> 00:29:02,156 Speaker 1: at a personal level, and that was Sarah Kavanaugh. Sarah 448 00:29:02,236 --> 00:29:04,996 Speaker 1: and Justin knew each other from the VFW. They've been 449 00:29:05,036 --> 00:29:08,356 Speaker 1: close for several years, ever since Justin joined the Post 450 00:29:08,436 --> 00:29:11,956 Speaker 1: back in two thousand. In seventeen, and that whole time, 451 00:29:12,236 --> 00:29:16,276 Speaker 1: Sarah herself claimed that she had been fighting cancer, lung cancer. 452 00:29:17,036 --> 00:29:20,956 Speaker 1: Sarah claimed the cancer came from her military service, claimed 453 00:29:20,956 --> 00:29:23,876 Speaker 1: her vehicle had been hit by an ied and she'd 454 00:29:23,916 --> 00:29:28,356 Speaker 1: inhaled the metal particles in the blast. For some people, 455 00:29:28,716 --> 00:29:32,316 Speaker 1: cancer is now a chronic condition, something you can manage 456 00:29:32,476 --> 00:29:36,116 Speaker 1: and live with, and that seemed to be the case 457 00:29:36,156 --> 00:29:37,036 Speaker 1: with Sarah. 458 00:29:37,716 --> 00:29:42,116 Speaker 9: So I immediately went to Sarah, thinking, okay, well, there's 459 00:29:42,116 --> 00:29:45,236 Speaker 9: someone going through the same experience I am. I don't 460 00:29:45,236 --> 00:29:48,236 Speaker 9: feel so lonely anymore. I was still scared, but what 461 00:29:48,396 --> 00:29:52,596 Speaker 9: she was sharing, what her experience was someone who's already 462 00:29:52,716 --> 00:29:57,036 Speaker 9: started this journey is telling me, you know, things are 463 00:29:57,076 --> 00:29:59,596 Speaker 9: going to be okay. That definitely helped. 464 00:30:00,596 --> 00:30:03,436 Speaker 1: Sarah had always been a friend, but in this moment, 465 00:30:03,836 --> 00:30:06,196 Speaker 1: their friendship seemed to take on a deeper meaning. 466 00:30:07,676 --> 00:30:11,436 Speaker 9: No one really was in my shoes except her. At 467 00:30:11,516 --> 00:30:14,436 Speaker 9: least that's what I thought, here's another veteran that's going 468 00:30:14,476 --> 00:30:16,996 Speaker 9: through the same thing I'm going through, so at least 469 00:30:17,036 --> 00:30:21,956 Speaker 9: she knows we can support each other. And then we 470 00:30:22,036 --> 00:30:26,196 Speaker 9: started actually opening up more about our treatments and how 471 00:30:26,196 --> 00:30:27,236 Speaker 9: our treatments were going. 472 00:30:28,636 --> 00:30:31,676 Speaker 1: Sarah told Justin she was on an experimental dose of 473 00:30:31,716 --> 00:30:36,196 Speaker 1: an immunotherapy drug and it was working, but according to Sarah, 474 00:30:36,476 --> 00:30:41,076 Speaker 1: the VA was cutting back on her treatment. This story 475 00:30:41,276 --> 00:30:45,196 Speaker 1: hit home for Justin. He'd faced his own bureaucratic roadblocks 476 00:30:45,236 --> 00:30:48,876 Speaker 1: within the VA. In fact, he'd eventually gone outside the 477 00:30:48,916 --> 00:30:52,516 Speaker 1: system to Dana Farber in Boston to get the experimental 478 00:30:52,516 --> 00:30:55,916 Speaker 1: treatment that he needed, and it seemed to be working, 479 00:30:56,396 --> 00:30:58,556 Speaker 1: which gave Justin an idea. 480 00:30:59,676 --> 00:31:04,516 Speaker 9: I thought well, Dana Farbers is this amazing place, and 481 00:31:05,076 --> 00:31:07,356 Speaker 9: I know that they can help her. And I said, well, 482 00:31:08,276 --> 00:31:11,316 Speaker 9: do you have private health insurance because you need to 483 00:31:11,316 --> 00:31:14,716 Speaker 9: go to someplace like Dana Farber and get real help, 484 00:31:14,756 --> 00:31:16,996 Speaker 9: because the VA is not going to help you. And 485 00:31:17,036 --> 00:31:19,116 Speaker 9: she said, well, I don't have or I can't afford it. 486 00:31:19,756 --> 00:31:22,276 Speaker 9: She just kept saying like she couldn't. That was too 487 00:31:22,356 --> 00:31:23,556 Speaker 9: much for her. 488 00:31:24,316 --> 00:31:27,756 Speaker 1: The whole thing was frustrating for Justin, and he felt 489 00:31:27,756 --> 00:31:29,836 Speaker 1: like he couldn't just sit there and do nothing. 490 00:31:30,956 --> 00:31:34,676 Speaker 9: We veterans look out for each other, and I'm not 491 00:31:34,716 --> 00:31:37,316 Speaker 9: going to sit here and let a fellow what I 492 00:31:37,356 --> 00:31:40,396 Speaker 9: thought at the time was a fellow veteran die from 493 00:31:40,476 --> 00:31:45,636 Speaker 9: lack of treatment when I know there's an alternative if 494 00:31:45,636 --> 00:31:49,996 Speaker 9: I can help it. So I said, look, I will 495 00:31:50,116 --> 00:31:56,476 Speaker 9: at least begin by paying for this insurance for you 496 00:31:56,556 --> 00:31:57,916 Speaker 9: to be able to go to Dana Farber. 497 00:32:00,196 --> 00:32:04,036 Speaker 1: It was an incredibly generous offer, which Sarah turned down. 498 00:32:05,116 --> 00:32:08,676 Speaker 9: She initially said no, I can't ask you to do that, No, no, no, 499 00:32:09,356 --> 00:32:11,676 Speaker 9: but then she kept telling me that, you know, she 500 00:32:11,796 --> 00:32:15,836 Speaker 9: wasn't doing well, and eventually, you know, I said, look, 501 00:32:15,916 --> 00:32:19,436 Speaker 9: I don't want you to die. 502 00:32:20,876 --> 00:32:25,076 Speaker 1: At last, Sarah agreed. In the months that followed, Justin 503 00:32:25,116 --> 00:32:28,436 Speaker 1: gave her money to pay for private insurance, over five 504 00:32:28,516 --> 00:32:31,756 Speaker 1: thousand dollars in total, all in the hope that it 505 00:32:31,796 --> 00:32:38,796 Speaker 1: would keep her alive. Then one day, Justin gets a 506 00:32:38,796 --> 00:32:42,916 Speaker 1: call from Dave Ainslie at the VFW. You know, the 507 00:32:42,956 --> 00:32:46,836 Speaker 1: guy with the handlebar mustache. He was the previous commander 508 00:32:46,876 --> 00:32:48,876 Speaker 1: at the post before Sarah. 509 00:32:50,076 --> 00:32:54,236 Speaker 9: Dave told me like, hey, you know, like I got 510 00:32:54,236 --> 00:32:56,756 Speaker 9: to tell you something about Sarah, and she's you know, 511 00:32:56,876 --> 00:32:59,676 Speaker 9: she's fake, She's not a veteran, and I was just 512 00:32:59,716 --> 00:33:01,996 Speaker 9: in shock and trying to just like wrap my brain 513 00:33:02,036 --> 00:33:02,556 Speaker 9: around it. 514 00:33:03,556 --> 00:33:07,196 Speaker 1: Dave explained how he tried to retrieve Sarah's discharge papers 515 00:33:07,436 --> 00:33:10,676 Speaker 1: her d D two fourteen, and how Sarah had been 516 00:33:10,716 --> 00:33:14,116 Speaker 1: one step ahead of him, absconding with the paperwork before 517 00:33:14,196 --> 00:33:17,396 Speaker 1: Dave could get his hands on it. Justin says that 518 00:33:17,436 --> 00:33:21,036 Speaker 1: he believed Dave, but part of him resisted, part of 519 00:33:21,116 --> 00:33:25,436 Speaker 1: him was in denial. He kept asking himself, who would 520 00:33:25,476 --> 00:33:31,236 Speaker 1: do something like this and why. Around this exact same time, 521 00:33:31,996 --> 00:33:36,436 Speaker 1: rumors began to swirl about Sarah being a fraud, and 522 00:33:36,516 --> 00:33:40,436 Speaker 1: then Justin heard from Sam. Her head was also spinning, 523 00:33:40,796 --> 00:33:42,196 Speaker 1: trying to make sense of all this. 524 00:33:43,556 --> 00:33:46,036 Speaker 9: Sam and I talked on the phone and Sam was 525 00:33:46,196 --> 00:33:49,076 Speaker 9: still in i think, still in denial, and said, this 526 00:33:49,156 --> 00:33:51,836 Speaker 9: is not true. She actually does have cancer. I've seen 527 00:33:51,876 --> 00:33:53,996 Speaker 9: the record, her medical records. 528 00:33:54,956 --> 00:34:00,156 Speaker 1: Because remember Sam, she'd seen all the proof, the wounded 529 00:34:00,196 --> 00:34:05,156 Speaker 1: Warrior enrollment forms, stacks of medical records, someone claiming to 530 00:34:05,196 --> 00:34:09,076 Speaker 1: be Sarah's VA caseworker had even sent Sam official docum, 531 00:34:09,676 --> 00:34:15,076 Speaker 1: blood work, diagnoses, intake forms. It all looked legit. It 532 00:34:15,116 --> 00:34:17,876 Speaker 1: was enough to give Justin a moment of pause. 533 00:34:19,236 --> 00:34:21,276 Speaker 9: There was a little bit of a question in my mind. 534 00:34:21,396 --> 00:34:25,356 Speaker 9: I'd say, she's actually seen medical records. What does that mean? 535 00:34:26,756 --> 00:34:30,276 Speaker 1: Like, was there some other explanation here, a story that 536 00:34:30,356 --> 00:34:32,916 Speaker 1: made sense of it all, that turned the world right 537 00:34:32,956 --> 00:34:38,196 Speaker 1: side up again and somehow transformed Sarah back into Sarah. 538 00:34:38,236 --> 00:34:42,636 Speaker 1: And if not, well, then so many other questions bubbled 539 00:34:42,676 --> 00:34:45,916 Speaker 1: to the surface, like where did that stack of medical 540 00:34:45,956 --> 00:34:49,596 Speaker 1: records come from? And what if the rumors were true? 541 00:34:50,396 --> 00:34:53,916 Speaker 1: What did that mean for Justin? If the one person 542 00:34:53,956 --> 00:34:56,596 Speaker 1: who got it, who'd been through it, what if that 543 00:34:56,716 --> 00:35:02,116 Speaker 1: person was just performing, mimicking his own pain, where did 544 00:35:02,116 --> 00:35:05,156 Speaker 1: that leave him? 545 00:35:10,396 --> 00:35:14,356 Speaker 5: In the days after that phone conversation with justin. Sam 546 00:35:14,476 --> 00:35:17,996 Speaker 5: still held on to the hope that maybe this was 547 00:35:18,076 --> 00:35:24,036 Speaker 5: just some terrible misunderstanding. Sarah kept maintaining her innocence, saying 548 00:35:24,196 --> 00:35:28,316 Speaker 5: she had the paperwork to prove it. Sam says she 549 00:35:28,436 --> 00:35:32,916 Speaker 5: believed it, maybe because she wanted to believe it. At 550 00:35:32,916 --> 00:35:36,596 Speaker 5: one point, Sam was driving to work and talking to 551 00:35:36,676 --> 00:35:40,596 Speaker 5: Sarah on the phone about all of this. She got frustrated. 552 00:35:41,276 --> 00:35:44,116 Speaker 5: She asked Sarah, begged her, really. 553 00:35:44,596 --> 00:35:46,396 Speaker 6: Where's the paperwork? And she's like, I can't find it. 554 00:35:46,476 --> 00:35:49,116 Speaker 6: I'm like, what what do you mean you can't find it? 555 00:35:49,556 --> 00:35:52,676 Speaker 6: You're the most organized person I know. And she's like 556 00:35:52,756 --> 00:35:55,396 Speaker 6: then she said, it's all a lie. And I was like, wait, wait, 557 00:35:56,516 --> 00:35:56,876 Speaker 6: were you. 558 00:35:56,796 --> 00:35:59,356 Speaker 7: Ever in the military? 559 00:35:59,516 --> 00:36:04,796 Speaker 5: And that's when Sarah finally said it, a one word confession. No, 560 00:36:05,636 --> 00:36:06,996 Speaker 5: she'd never been in the military. 561 00:36:08,476 --> 00:36:11,596 Speaker 6: I literally turned around and I was going to my work. 562 00:36:11,636 --> 00:36:13,516 Speaker 6: I turned around and I went right to her house. 563 00:36:13,956 --> 00:36:14,876 Speaker 5: What was that drive? 564 00:36:15,036 --> 00:36:18,196 Speaker 6: Like, I don't even remember. I don't even remember like 565 00:36:18,236 --> 00:36:20,756 Speaker 6: that drive. I don't remember walking into her house. I 566 00:36:20,756 --> 00:36:24,596 Speaker 6: remember sitting on her couch and like me like telling her, 567 00:36:25,556 --> 00:36:27,076 Speaker 6: asking her is this real? 568 00:36:27,156 --> 00:36:27,676 Speaker 7: Is this real? 569 00:36:27,756 --> 00:36:28,276 Speaker 6: Is this real? 570 00:36:28,356 --> 00:36:29,916 Speaker 7: Is this real? You know? 571 00:36:30,476 --> 00:36:32,356 Speaker 8: And she was like no, no, no, no no. 572 00:36:35,196 --> 00:36:39,716 Speaker 5: It was an avalanche of betrayals. The cancer, the military service, 573 00:36:40,156 --> 00:36:43,476 Speaker 5: the family down in Georgia, the brother she'd taken off 574 00:36:43,556 --> 00:36:48,276 Speaker 5: life support. None of it was true. Sarah had been 575 00:36:48,356 --> 00:36:53,476 Speaker 5: lying to her every single day for years about nearly everything, 576 00:36:54,316 --> 00:36:57,796 Speaker 5: even things unrelated to her stolen valor scam, like still 577 00:36:57,836 --> 00:37:01,716 Speaker 5: being married to Nicole, and in doing so, she had 578 00:37:01,756 --> 00:37:05,876 Speaker 5: made Sam the other woman. We actually talked to Sarah 579 00:37:05,916 --> 00:37:06,956 Speaker 5: about this very moment. 580 00:37:08,156 --> 00:37:10,956 Speaker 4: I remember her coming to my house and having that 581 00:37:10,996 --> 00:37:13,316 Speaker 4: conversation and her sitting on the couch across from me 582 00:37:14,476 --> 00:37:17,676 Speaker 4: and telling her the truth, like watching it hit her, 583 00:37:18,556 --> 00:37:21,876 Speaker 4: you know, watching it overcome her. It was like watching 584 00:37:21,876 --> 00:37:25,556 Speaker 4: her heartbreak, you know. And she started to cry and 585 00:37:26,716 --> 00:37:30,596 Speaker 4: told me she couldn't do this and how could I 586 00:37:30,596 --> 00:37:32,636 Speaker 4: do it? And all of those things. 587 00:37:34,796 --> 00:37:37,516 Speaker 5: Sarah had spent hours and hours with Sam and her 588 00:37:37,516 --> 00:37:42,036 Speaker 5: family in their home, nursed the wounds of Sam's divorce, 589 00:37:42,996 --> 00:37:46,676 Speaker 5: helps her find happiness again. Sarah hurt Sam in all 590 00:37:46,716 --> 00:37:52,716 Speaker 5: of these intimate, profound ways, and then she made that pain, dirty, shameful. 591 00:37:53,916 --> 00:38:07,196 Speaker 8: I'm still coping with it. Would it be upset? 592 00:37:58,476 --> 00:37:58,596 Speaker 7: Now? 593 00:38:09,236 --> 00:38:11,996 Speaker 6: Will come up and I'll be like, oh did that 594 00:38:12,036 --> 00:38:16,236 Speaker 6: really happen, and I think probably not, it was probably 595 00:38:16,316 --> 00:38:16,916 Speaker 6: a lie. 596 00:38:18,796 --> 00:38:20,396 Speaker 8: Because I'll still like be. 597 00:38:20,476 --> 00:38:24,916 Speaker 7: Like driving or whatever, and then memory will come and 598 00:38:25,236 --> 00:38:28,476 Speaker 7: they I'll be like, oh, I wonder how Brody's doing, 599 00:38:28,716 --> 00:38:32,836 Speaker 7: like things like that, you know, like it's so crazy. 600 00:38:32,396 --> 00:38:39,116 Speaker 5: To me, Brody one of Sarah's fake brothers. Memories like 601 00:38:39,196 --> 00:38:43,556 Speaker 5: this come back to Sam even now. And then there 602 00:38:43,636 --> 00:38:46,836 Speaker 5: was the fact that Sarah was also Sam's patient, that 603 00:38:46,916 --> 00:38:50,396 Speaker 5: she'd been getting physical therapy from her for years, and 604 00:38:50,476 --> 00:38:52,716 Speaker 5: some of those bills had been paid for by a 605 00:38:52,716 --> 00:38:56,556 Speaker 5: wounded warrior. That meant that the very basis of their 606 00:38:56,596 --> 00:39:01,516 Speaker 5: relationship was a theft, a crime. She sat on the 607 00:39:01,556 --> 00:39:05,836 Speaker 5: couch confronting Sarah, the implications became crystal clear. 608 00:39:06,916 --> 00:39:12,316 Speaker 6: I was like, oh my god. I was like, you 609 00:39:12,396 --> 00:39:15,476 Speaker 6: basically stole money. And I said to go, You're gonna 610 00:39:15,476 --> 00:39:18,556 Speaker 6: go to jail, Sarah, And She's like, you think. 611 00:39:21,556 --> 00:39:25,436 Speaker 5: Next time. On deep Cover, I said. 612 00:39:25,196 --> 00:39:28,996 Speaker 3: Like, hey, we are at your house. 613 00:39:29,076 --> 00:39:32,116 Speaker 1: It's the police. Are you in the house. 614 00:39:32,116 --> 00:39:33,396 Speaker 4: We need you to come to the door. 615 00:39:42,916 --> 00:39:46,356 Speaker 1: Deep Cover The Truth About Sarah was produced by Amy 616 00:39:46,396 --> 00:39:52,156 Speaker 1: Gaines McQuaid and Tali Emlin, additional production support by Sonya Gerwit. 617 00:39:52,476 --> 00:39:56,356 Speaker 5: Our show is edited by Karen Chakerjee. Our executive producer 618 00:39:56,436 --> 00:39:59,676 Speaker 5: is Jacob Smith, mastering by Jake Gorsky. 619 00:40:00,396 --> 00:40:03,916 Speaker 1: Original scoring in our theme were composed by Luis Gara. 620 00:40:04,556 --> 00:40:08,356 Speaker 1: Our show art was designed by Sean Carney, fact checking 621 00:40:08,436 --> 00:40:09,676 Speaker 1: by A Robbins. 622 00:40:10,516 --> 00:40:14,916 Speaker 5: Special thanks to Sarah Nis, Izzy Carter, Daphne Chen, Jake 623 00:40:14,956 --> 00:40:20,236 Speaker 5: Flanagan and Greta Cone. Additional thanks to Vicki Merrick, I'm 624 00:40:20,316 --> 00:40:21,196 Speaker 5: Jess McHugh. 625 00:40:21,716 --> 00:40:36,476 Speaker 1: And I'm Jake Halpern. My co host, Jess McHugh is 626 00:40:36,556 --> 00:40:39,636 Speaker 1: currently researching a book on female con artists.