1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: Hey, Latino USA listeners. This is Julio Ricaalobarella, editorial director, 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: and today we want to share a preview episode of 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 1: a new podcast called Going for Broke, which is a 4 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: new series from the Economic Hardship Reporting Project and The Nation, 5 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: and it's about Americans on the edge. So the following 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: preview episode features fame journalist Ray Suarez, who tells this 7 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: shocking story of how his illustrious career fell apart in 8 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: middle age. It revealed to Ray firsthand the crisis facing 9 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: older workers and also gave him insights into how to 10 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: fix our condition. So here is Ray Suarez's story from 11 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 1: the Going for Broke podcast series, which will premiere in October. 12 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: So check it out. 13 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 2: Thanks from the Economic Hardship Reporting Project and The Nation. 14 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 2: This is Going for Broke. I'm race. This series comes 15 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 2: from a very basic idea that in the United States, 16 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 2: when we talk about poverty, when we talk about economic struggle, 17 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 2: poor people, people on the margins, people not succeeding in 18 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 2: the modern economy, those people are talked about, but very 19 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 2: rarely get the chance to talk for themselves. Here on 20 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 2: Gooing for Broke, they do. We bring you stories of 21 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 2: Americans living on the edge, and now it's my turn. 22 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 2: It feels funny saying it because reporters shy away from 23 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 2: making themselves the story. And frankly, I never thought I 24 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 2: would be telling a story of financial insecurity or job loss, 25 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 2: but here I am. I'm going to tell you about 26 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 2: how the wheels came off my career in my late 27 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 2: fifties and why, and talk about what we can do 28 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: as a society to make sure we or older workers 29 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 2: aren't pushed into precariousness. I've been a journalist of one 30 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 2: kind or another all of my adult life, radio, television, books, newspapers. 31 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 3: Raycejuarez as the second in our news service, I guess. 32 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 4: Rayce Warez is the host of the NPR interview and 33 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:21,519 Speaker 4: phone in program Talk of the Nation. 34 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 2: Friday morning brought a new barrage of shelling in the 35 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 2: City of Homes. I wanted to be a reporter since 36 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 2: I was a kid. I grew up in an aging 37 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 2: and not very well maintained apartment building in Brooklyn. The 38 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 2: heat was dodgy in the winter, the windows were crap. 39 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 2: We had a great, intact, nurturing, wonderful family, but materially 40 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 2: we weren't any great shakes. We did okay. I didn't 41 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 2: miss any meals, but it wasn't great. Becoming a reporter 42 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 2: seemed like one way of getting out, and it worked. 43 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 2: One fly in the ointment was that even in New 44 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 2: York when I was growing up in the sixties and seventies, 45 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 2: very few Puerto Ricans made it into mainstream media. There 46 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 2: were few people I could look to and say, well, 47 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 2: see there's that guy, so I could do this. One 48 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 2: exception for three decades as a street reporter was JJ 49 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 2: Gonzalez at WCBS. They hope more of that enthusiasm in 50 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,519 Speaker 2: Pride will keep the beg Sky renaissance going full steam ahead. 51 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 2: J J. Gonzada's channel two years. As I got older 52 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 2: and began to understand what breaking in would be like, 53 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 2: I realized, with talent or not, it would require a 54 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,119 Speaker 2: certain amount of struggle, having to prove that I belonged. 55 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 2: When I was a desk assistant at one of the 56 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 2: networks in the nineteen seventies and I looked across the newsroom, 57 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 2: it was just a sea of white guys in white 58 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,839 Speaker 2: shirts named Dick and Bob, and we were in one 59 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 2: of the capitals of Latino America, New York. Outside our 60 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 2: door on the upper West Side there were millions, but 61 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 2: inside working in any capacity, there were just two Puerto Ricans, 62 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 2: and we were at the lowest rung on the ladder. 63 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 2: I wonder in retrospect whether anybody thought anything was going 64 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 2: to become of us. I went on and had my career. 65 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 2: The other guy did not flourish and prosper in the 66 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 2: news business. He ended up suing the network and getting 67 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 2: a sizeable settlement for failure to hire and promote, and 68 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 2: to use that money to go to law school and 69 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 2: ended up doing labor law. New York was in terrible 70 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 2: economic decline during my formative years, and that built in 71 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 2: a wariness about unemployment, about job insecurity. Whatever the market conditions, 72 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 2: I figured I needed to work. I needed to be 73 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 2: sure I could support my family. Long before it was 74 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:59,799 Speaker 2: the norm, I worked in multiple media simultaneously, TV, radio, print, 75 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 2: so I could always have a job for decades. It worked, 76 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 2: and I steadily climbed the greasy post picture on China 77 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 2: to cooperate. 78 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 4: Race Ware has reports from the talks in Copenhagen, Denmark. 79 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,359 Speaker 2: When Secretary of State Clinton arrived in Copenhagen today, she 80 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: said the US wanted to readar with two top journalists. 81 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: Racewarez host of Al Jazeera America's daily news program. 82 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 2: By twenty sixteen, in my late fifties, I was finally 83 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 2: hosting my own TV show. 84 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 4: Pre exposure of prophylaxis and preventing the spread of AG, 85 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 4: making terrific money, working with a great crew on a 86 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 4: great set, and hoping to be on the air for 87 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 4: a long time. My employer, Al Jazeera America went out 88 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 4: of business, a calamitous collapse into an ocean of red ink. 89 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 5: Al Jazeera America has announced that they're shutting down in April. 90 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 2: The news came rather abruptly at an all staff meeting 91 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 2: the channel, and for the first time in over thirty years, 92 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 2: I was out of work. Worried. I'd been at the 93 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 2: PBS News Hour for fourteen years, I'd hosted a hit 94 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 2: national radio show for six and a half years. Before that, 95 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 2: I'd written three critically acclaimed books. I thought, well, I'll 96 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 2: find something. But then came the reality of too many 97 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 2: unaccepted phone calls, too many slam doors, too much disingenuousness 98 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 2: from too many people who said, Oh, don't worry, you'll 99 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 2: find something. What do you have to worry? About and 100 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 2: then wouldn't talk to me. It was a tough year 101 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 2: after that, but you know, in a funny way, I 102 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 2: just thought, having covered workforce issues, having covered unemployment, one 103 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 2: of the rules of thumb was the higher your salary, 104 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 2: the longer it takes to find a new job. I 105 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 2: was completely aware it was unlikely I would get a 106 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 2: job at my old pay. I had lived below my 107 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 2: means for a long time in order to prepare for 108 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 2: retirement and get my kids through college, so it was 109 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 2: second nature. The warning said it was going to take 110 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 2: a long time, and that was okay. You're not going 111 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 2: to make the money you did before, and that's okay too. 112 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 2: Even with my clear eyed view of what to expect, 113 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 2: nothing prepared me for what really happened. I couldn't get 114 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 2: arrested in the grim and graphic saying of my childhood neighborhood. 115 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 2: Nobody would piss on me if I was on fire. 116 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 2: And I was stunned and slowly realized how much of 117 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 2: a handicap age was going to be. My experience didn't matter, 118 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 2: my knowledge didn't matter. Even the good reputation I had 119 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 2: built over decades didn't matter. And it didn't hit me 120 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 2: all at once like a thunderbolt. It was more like 121 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 2: a slow motion collapse. Once you realize it, it's a 122 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 2: pretty profound shock. And remember this is at a time 123 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 2: when everyone in journalism was saying, we have to diversify, 124 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 2: we have to find people of different backgrounds to work 125 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 2: in our newsroom. And probably one of the best known 126 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 2: national Latino broadcasters work in English language in the United States, 127 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 2: was available for anything, open to new things. None of 128 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 2: it mattered. I realized a certain paternalism was built into 129 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 2: the DNA of the newsrooms I was trying to break 130 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 2: back into, and that to the hiring managers, I was 131 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 2: dealing with. Latino means young. I beat the bushes, I freelanced. 132 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 2: An unexpected lifeline came in the form of a visiting 133 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 2: professor's job at Amherst College. It was a joy, but 134 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 2: there was a problem. I started feeling terrible. I assumed 135 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:45,599 Speaker 2: it was the stress. I dragged myself through the year, sleepless, fatigued, 136 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 2: low energy. The following summer, it's now twenty eighteen, I 137 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 2: was diagnosed with cancer. Getting sick brought in a dark 138 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 2: second front. You know, when you're walking along and you 139 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 2: look at one side of the sky and it's bride 140 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 2: and the sun is up and you can see blue. 141 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 2: And then you turn around and it's totally black in 142 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 2: the other direction. You know something terrible is moving in well. 143 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 2: Getting sick on top of already struggling to find work 144 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 2: meant that every part of the sky that I looked 145 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 2: in was black. It's funny the way the two things, 146 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 2: the career decline and the illness, spoke to each other. 147 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 2: They affected me in different ways, and yet they were interrelated. 148 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,679 Speaker 2: They had a dialogue. The self and the body had 149 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 2: a long conversation. As I sat chemoted out on the couch, 150 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 2: unable to do very much, I hardly told anybody. I 151 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 2: was very selective about who I told I had cancer, 152 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 2: because I was really afraid, given the agism and the 153 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 2: dismissal I had already encountered, that employers would really steer clear. 154 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 2: I was still years away from medicare. I'm still years 155 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 2: away from when I planned to take so social security. 156 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 2: I'm still years from what I wanted to tap into 157 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 2: my retirement savings. And I couldn't work. Thank God I 158 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 2: paid off the house. We could still live a bit 159 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 2: of our old lives. My wife and I as we 160 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 2: figured out what the next life was going to be like. 161 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 2: And this is where I'd like to bring Alyssa Quard, 162 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 2: executive director of the Economic Hardship Reporting Project, into the conversation. Alyssa, 163 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 2: you know a thing or two about this landscape, the 164 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 2: one I found myself in. 165 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely. And if it can happen to you, you're 166 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 5: obviously a legendary public broadcaster. It can happen to anyone, 167 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 5: any journalist. But let's parse out what happened to you, 168 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 5: because there's several interlocking strands or paradigms that made this happen. 169 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 5: I mean, one of them is what we call now 170 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 5: in some circles the media extinction event, which is just 171 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 5: the reduction of independent reporters and staff reporters in this 172 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 5: country starting in the late nineties, early knots and accelerating 173 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 5: now in the pandemic. 174 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 2: And just like the dinosaurs, when we looked up and 175 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 2: saw the comet, we just didn't know that it was 176 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 2: coming for us. Newspapers go to the graveyard monthly. More 177 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 2: and more magazines have actually reincorporated as not for profit entities. 178 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 2: When you think about this massive, ever flowing river of content, 179 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:42,839 Speaker 2: it's actually made by fewer full time employees then worked 180 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 2: in the business twenty years ago. So we're doing more 181 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 2: with fewer people. There is more built in precarity, There 182 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 2: is a greater built in expectation that you won't be 183 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 2: able to do this as a way of life, as 184 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 2: a living the beginning of your career all the way 185 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 2: to the end. It's a tough time and especially a 186 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 2: tough time to hang on when bosses are looking every 187 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 2: moment at the bottom line. 188 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, there's something like twenty seven thousand. 189 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 3: Journalists lost their jobs, and these are people who actually 190 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 3: had jobs during the pandemic period, and that was there's 191 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 3: something like a forty five percent shrinkage of newsrooms between 192 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 3: two thousand and five and twenty fourteen. 193 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 6: So this is just a. 194 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,719 Speaker 5: Layer upond layer. And you know, before you start saying, oh, 195 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 5: this is uh, you know, we're media types mooning about 196 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 5: other media types. Some of this is also just about 197 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,239 Speaker 5: age in general. And I reported that in my book Squeezed, 198 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 5: I found that older folks who are being pushed out 199 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 5: of the job market often middle class older folks trying 200 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 5: to retrain, spending a lot on certificate programs, colleges, graduate 201 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 5: schools and still not making more or not getting another job, 202 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,319 Speaker 5: and then also paying for their kids' education. So that's 203 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 5: something I saw a lot of. And that's why we 204 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 5: have something like one point seven trillion student loan debt 205 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 5: with seventeen percent of it belonging to people over fifty 206 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 5: years old. 207 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 2: The numbers are shocking. And you know when college has 208 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 2: gone up, both on the public side and on the 209 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 2: private side, something like one thousand percent over the last 210 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 2: thirty years. And you're in that generational squeeze where you're 211 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 2: also looking out for elderly parents, trying to prepare for 212 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 2: your own retirement, and now on the hook for your 213 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 2: own kids college debt if not, as you mentioned, for 214 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 2: the retraining and upskilling that you paid out of your 215 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 2: own pocket to do and right now isn't paying much 216 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 2: in the way of dividends. It's a terrible situation for 217 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 2: older workers. 218 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 5: So people lose jobs, they're furlough, they lose what I 219 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 5: call they lose the narrative of their lives as well. Right, 220 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 5: there's an existential dimension, and then you can add illness 221 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 5: on to it, you can add disability onto it. In 222 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:04,479 Speaker 5: your case, you got sick. 223 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was one of those moments where you 224 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 2: really start to think, wow, the compounding of my troubles, well, 225 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 2: maybe I really am done. I mean done for my career, 226 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 2: but also done in a much more in a much 227 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 2: more existential way. I'm fine now, and I'm doing well 228 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 2: physically and in very good shape. But those moments dent you, scratch, 229 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 2: you up, beat you up in ways that are hard 230 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 2: to assess once it's all over. 231 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 5: So, okay, so you're still looking for work. So this 232 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 5: is a moment, this is a juncture that we could 233 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 5: start thinking what are real solutions? 234 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 2: Well, Lissa, if you think about it, so many of 235 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 2: the protections that we say we build around the individual 236 00:14:55,880 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 2: citizen are either directly tied to employment or in practice 237 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 2: heavily embedded in employment, whether it's going on disability or 238 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 2: collecting unemployment insurance or paying into a company health insurance plan. 239 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 2: Many employee benefits packages even include life insurance that often 240 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 2: operates as a multiple of your annual income, so at 241 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 2: least there's some cushion for your family if you die. 242 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 2: But all of these things are associated with employment. Now, 243 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 2: it's not that they're impossible to acquire if you're self employed. 244 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 2: It's not that they are impossible to buy on the 245 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 2: open market. It's just that some of the market devices 246 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 2: that we use to make the numbers work to keep 247 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 2: you solvent and keep you earning a living, and also 248 00:15:55,520 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 2: keep you providing. These protections for yourself come through regular 249 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 2: employment for an employer. 250 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 5: In our field and journalism, one thing I think that 251 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 5: would be great that's coming back into vogue is a 252 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 5: Federal Writers Project. Originally that was a program of the 253 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 5: WPA in nineteen thirty five, part of the New Deal 254 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 5: response to the Great Depression. 255 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 7: You're listening to the takeaway. I'm Sarah Gonzalez and Pretendi Nevega. 256 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 7: Earlier this month, Congressman Ted lou of California introduced a 257 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 7: bill that would create a twenty first century Federal Writers Project, 258 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 7: inspired by the Federal Writers Project. 259 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 5: The original Federal Writers Project supported some of like seven 260 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 5: thousand writers, editors, researchers, and they did oral histories. 261 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 7: A man name is or Neil Horriston, and I'm going 262 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 7: to sing a Gamblin song that I collected at Boswick, Florida. 263 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 7: That's the term time. 264 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 5: And in our field, this is how we might do 265 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 5: a bailout of the journalism industry. 266 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 2: Now the warshops are unionizing. So I go more than 267 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 2: a couple of weeks at a time without seeing a 268 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 2: new newsroom that has formed an association is now affiliating 269 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 2: with a larger union, sometimes in a different industry altogether. 270 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 2: Now this isn't some shabby regional production of waiting for lefty. 271 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 2: This is people getting together to speak to their employers 272 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 2: with a unified voice, but also to be able to 273 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,439 Speaker 2: acquire some of these benefits that I've been talking about 274 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 2: in an organized, pooled way, which as an individual contractor 275 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 2: it's just really hard. So it makes all the sense 276 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 2: in the world if you are a journalist to join 277 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 2: one of these new unions. 278 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 5: So how does this change you how you think about 279 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 5: being a middle class person and about being American? About 280 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 5: the stories you wrote? Did people write back to you? 281 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 5: Ray wrote a very searing first person piece in the 282 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 5: Washington Post about what happened to him after he lost 283 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 5: his job and what's happening to journalists in general, and 284 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 5: it went very viral. So I wonder, like, did people 285 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 5: you knew come out of the woodwork and say this 286 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 5: is me? Or what was the response? 287 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 2: The response was fascinating. It was like a macro rush 288 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 2: act blot where I got back sympathetic responses. I got 289 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 2: back lovely notes from people who had enjoyed my work 290 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,199 Speaker 2: and valued my work. Over the years on radio television, 291 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 2: people have read my books and angry, invective filled judgmental 292 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 2: letters from people who were clearly some of the walking wounded, 293 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 2: some of the fellow disappointed, some of the people who 294 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 2: were suffering, some of these same downdrafts who couldn't find 295 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 2: it in themselves to be at all sympathetic and instead 296 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 2: assumed that a lot of this were was a problem 297 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 2: of my own making. 298 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 5: This is part of the sort of culture of blame 299 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 5: and if we're trying to find a solution array that's 300 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 5: not just policy, but is around messaging and the ways 301 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 5: that people think about themselves and narratives they tell about 302 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 5: themselves in this country. I think one of the most 303 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 5: toxic ones, the one that we need to PSAs and 304 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 5: like whole campaigns about, is against bootstrapping, against this idea 305 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 5: that everybody's to blame for their own economic condition. That 306 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 5: I mean, this is a towns and cities in this 307 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 5: country don't have garbage pick up unless you hire a company. 308 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,400 Speaker 5: I mean, there's the infrastructure is so tattered, and yet 309 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 5: there's this narrative that we're all supposed to be doing 310 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 5: very well and financially is how we're measuring that on 311 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 5: our own without any assistance from our government. And I 312 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 5: think to me, one of the biggest solutions would be 313 00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 5: serious campaign against that, to open people's eyes to the 314 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 5: way that we've been conditioned to not think of our 315 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 5: quality of life, to blame each other, to blame ourselves, 316 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 5: and to not really help each other. And what I'm 317 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 5: hoping is the legacy of the pandemic. 318 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 6: Will be more mutual aids and more workers' cooperatives and 319 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 6: more assistants that when people are in trouble medically in 320 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 6: their communities or need help, their neighbors will show up, 321 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 6: so at least they'll be that. 322 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 5: But that starts with people stopping blaming each other. 323 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,360 Speaker 2: Well, thank you, And it's really been a privilege and 324 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 2: a joy to be associated with the Economic Hardship Reporting 325 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 2: Project because it's multiple missions are right on time, they 326 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 2: answer some of the existing problems not only in the 327 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 2: news business but in the wider society. So thank you for. 328 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 5: That, Oh, thank you so much. 329 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 2: Ray Alyssaquard as the executive director of EHRP and the 330 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 2: author of Squeezed, Why Our Families Can't Afford America and 331 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 2: I'm Ray Souirez. Going for Broke comes to you from 332 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 2: the Economic Hardship Reporting Project and The Nation. Our producer 333 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 2: is Jeb Sharp, Mixing and sound design by Tina Toby Mack. 334 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Alis Aquord and David Wallace. Frank 335 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 2: Reynolds is multimedia editor at the Nation. The Nation's editor 336 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,679 Speaker 2: is d de Guttenplan. Thanks to the Eviction Lab for 337 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 2: financial support, Going for Broke launches October eighteenth, with new 338 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 2: episodes available every Monday. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, 339 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:46,360 Speaker 2: and sign up for our newsletter at Economic Hardship dot org.