1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel 2 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: one two. We could have a serial killer. We've all 3 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: heard of, the Gilgo Beach serial killer, also known as 4 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: the Long Island serial Killer. As of right now, still 5 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: no arrest, but now a bombshell in the case emerges. 6 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: Another man, a Long Island carpenter, a seemingly happy married 7 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: father of two, is convicted of murdering two women and 8 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: he is currently being eyed in a third. Does this 9 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: unlock the mystery of the ten dead bodies fould discarded 10 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: hidden along the ocean along a pathway, the Ocean Highway. 11 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for 12 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: being with us. We have an all star lineup today 13 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: to break it down and put it back together again. 14 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: Pat Brown, criminal profile or Cheryl McCullum, director of the 15 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: Cold Case Research Institute. Bob Colker from New York Magazine 16 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: and author of Lost Girls. You can find that on 17 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:30,680 Speaker 1: Amazon dot com and Allen Killlaurin Crime Online dot com 18 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: investigative reporter everyone. Thank you for being with us. Bob Colcher, 19 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: starting with you, Nobody even knew about the bodies buried 20 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: along the beach there near Gilgo Beach. Nobody knew it, 21 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: and by the time they were found, many of them 22 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: were skeletonized. How did the case break open? Lots of 23 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: the victims have been missing for years and the police 24 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: weren't even actively searching for them. Happened was one woman 25 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: disappeared about three miles from where the body started to 26 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: be found. This woman was named Shannon Gilbert, and she 27 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: was an escort who advertised on Craiglist and back Page. 28 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: She disappeared screaming one night in a tiny, secluded beach 29 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: community on the south shore of Long Island. Okay, who 30 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: wa wa wa wa Wait wait Bob Colker, You're awesome. 31 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: Bob Colker joining me from New York Magazine, author of 32 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: Lost Girls. But it's like I'm drinking from a far hydrant, 33 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: giving it to her fast. Furious, I can't take it 34 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: all in hold on. So this woman, Shannon, was at 35 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: a home. It's a beautiful area right there on the beach, 36 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: and she spotted running from the home, screaming at the 37 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: top of her lungs. The first place I would look 38 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 1: is who's in the home? What is she running from? 39 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: She calls nine one one, right, that's right, she does 40 00:02:55,360 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: and her colle gets bounced around two different jurisdictions and 41 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: never even gets connected to her disappearance for weeks or 42 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: even months. Wait a minute, I did not know that detail, 43 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: Bob colcher Cheryl McCollum, You and I have worked cases 44 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 1: together on the streets. That kills me. That just kills me. 45 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: The woman is screaming, they're trying to kill me, running 46 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,679 Speaker 1: for her life, and they what transfer. It reminds me 47 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: of the Home Alone movie when the mom is calling 48 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: from Paris. This must be Home Alone too, And I'm 49 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: trying to get the cops to go check on the 50 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: home and they go wrong, wrong department, and he just 51 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: knocks on the wall and says pick up line too, 52 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: and it just goes round and round and round. This 53 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: girl is running for her life, Shannon Gilbert, running for 54 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: her life, and they transfer her Cheryl McCollum for three minutes. 55 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: She's on with no one one for three minutes. Matthew. 56 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: The issue is she had like a disposable typephone. It 57 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: wasn't connected to a person or an address. They were 58 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: definitely trying to find where she was at and could 59 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: not until a neighbor made a call, as was she 60 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: knocked go U door. This is what we know about 61 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: the disappearance of Shannon Gilbert and Bob Colcher, you're the expert. 62 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: But sometime after midnight on May one, Shannon Gilbert made 63 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 1: her way to a job, unwillingly, driving right past bones 64 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: of the Long Island cereal killer's victims hidden in the brush. 65 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: She had no idea at the time, but the events 66 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: that happened in the next few hours would go on 67 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: to link her to four dead women. To Bob Colcher, 68 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: reporter with The New York Magazine, author of Lost Girls 69 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: on Amazon dot com. So she runs from the home screaming, screaming, 70 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: take a listen to what her sister, Sharie Gilbert tells 71 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: forty eight hours. Sometimes I stre mid night of Shannon 72 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: being dead. Other nights my dream that she's alive and 73 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,799 Speaker 1: she's doing well, and we find her and like, Shannon, 74 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:19,239 Speaker 1: where were you? My sister was lasting running along the road. 75 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: She was in fair of her life that night. That 76 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: wasn't She just disappeared into the night. Two days passed 77 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: before Shari learned her sister was actually missing. When Shannon's 78 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 1: a boyfriend called us say she had never come home. 79 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: Listen immediately I saw it to panic. I knew that, 80 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: and when he called me was something serious. I could 81 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: kind of hear the fear in his voice. That's from 82 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: forty eight hours to Bob Colker. What happens then, well, 83 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: the family didn't know what to do. They went went 84 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: to the police and tried to file a missing person's report, 85 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: and they were told that they had to file it 86 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 1: back in Shannon's hometown, which was in Jersey City, miles 87 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: and miles away across state lines. They went and did that, 88 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,239 Speaker 1: And this is the other great outrage of this case. 89 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: It took forever, you know, weeks, perhaps even months for 90 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: that missing person's case in Jersey City to make its 91 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: way back to Suffolk County in Long Island. And then 92 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: it took Suffolk County a long time to connect it 93 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: to that tape. And they only started to take Shannon's 94 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: disappearance seriously by around August. Really it was May when 95 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 1: she disappeared. In August when the police start looking for her. 96 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: But then the most amazing thing happened. Nancy, a cop 97 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: and a cadaver sniffing dog go looking for Shannon. A 98 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: good training exercise for the dog. A woman who's been 99 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: gone missing for so long, perhaps she's deceased. They can't 100 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: find her anywhere until finally, in December, months and months 101 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: after Shannon disappeared, the cop and the cadaver dog find 102 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 1: a set of bones along Ocean Parkway, just three miles 103 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: away from where Shannon disappeared. It's a woman. She's petite 104 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: like Shannon, but it isn't Shannon. And within two days 105 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: they find three more bodies, just about a tenth of 106 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: a mile apart from each other, evenly spaced, clearly planned out, 107 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: clearly the work of a premeditated killer. None of these 108 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: women are Shannon Gilbert. From there, the entire New York 109 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: media world explodes, The national media world explodes. As a 110 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: serial killer in New York City. Some of these women 111 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: have been disappeared for three or four years. Nobody knows 112 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: who he is. The police don't have leads. It's like 113 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: they've inherited for cold cases. Five of you include Shannon, 114 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: and months go by and there are no suspects, no 115 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: people of interest. You know, it's amazing to me, Bob 116 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: Colker with New York Magazine that with all these bodies, 117 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: they can't get any DNA to Pat Brown, criminal profile 118 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: or many of the bodies had already been skeleton eyes 119 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: That shows how long they've been out there. But there 120 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: are many signs that let me know this is in 121 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: fact the work of one person. Many of the women 122 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: dismembered so they would fit into burlap bags. They all 123 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: appear to be Caucasian females. One of them is white 124 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: by racial One body found is a toddler girl who 125 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: DNA matches up to one of the dead women. The 126 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: toddler girl was killed too. One of them turned out 127 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: to be an Asian male dressed as a Caucasian woman. 128 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:41,479 Speaker 1: So you've got a guy, I believe, one guy focusing 129 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: on Caucasian women, petite, all dismembered, all dismembered to fit 130 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:51,599 Speaker 1: into burlap bags, evenly discarded, disposed like Bob Colker just 131 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: told us about a tenth of a mile apart. What 132 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: does that tell you you're the criminal profiler? Pat Brown? Well, 133 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: I'm in agreement off you, Nancy, that we're looking at 134 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: most likely one serial killer, because it would be a 135 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 1: little odd that another serial killer also found this great 136 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: dumping ground. And what does happen with serial killers who 137 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: disposed of bodies and places that they think won't be found. 138 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: If they find a good place, nobody's nobody has discovered 139 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: that body. Why look for another place where you could 140 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: get called or the body could be discovered. Why not 141 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: just keep using that same stretch of road. And that's 142 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 1: clearly in my mind what he did and was very 143 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: successful at it. If it hadn't been for the peculiar 144 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: moment of Shannon Gilbert going missing a I think it's 145 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: just a bizarre coincidence. And nine one one call was 146 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 1: never released, right Ellen, so he can't listen to it 147 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: with me. Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Ellen killaurin 148 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: the nine on one call, and the transcript is something 149 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: that everyone reported on this case has tried to get 150 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: and they will not release it. Um It is confirmed 151 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: that she did say in the call someone someone's trying 152 00:09:57,679 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: to kill me, or they're trying to kill me, something 153 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: like that. The authorities have not released the audio or 154 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: any transcripts of the call, so we don't know what 155 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: else was said. But as a matter of fact, the 156 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 1: former Suffolk County Chief of Detectives, Dominic Varone, listened to 157 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: the call and spoke for the first time on Network 158 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,839 Speaker 1: TV to our friend at forty eight hours Aaron Moriarty 159 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: listen to what he tells erin She's saying, there's someone 160 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: after me. There's someone after me. It's a girl who's 161 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 1: clearly believes she's in harm's way. Does she say who 162 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: she's afraid of? She just says they're trying to kill me. 163 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: Chief Varone says two male voices are recognizable in the background, 164 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: Shannon's driver and the man who hired her, Joseph Brewer. 165 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,959 Speaker 1: As Brewer has heard trying to get her to leave 166 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: his house, Arrell and says that heither approaches touches their 167 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: house scream out. But police couldn't respond to the call 168 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: because Shannon couldn't say where she was. The complaint operators 169 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: asking well, where are you, and she just kind of 170 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: ignores that where are you question and keep saying, uh, 171 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: someone's after me. So unwillingly. To CHERRYL. McCollum, director of 172 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: the Cold Case Research Institute, this woman, Shannon Gilbert's disappearance 173 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: touches off the discovery of one of the most prolific 174 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: serial killers inter nation's history. No question they believed the 175 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: first body was Shannon, and when it came back not 176 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: to be her, and then they found a second body 177 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: and a third body. At that point they knew they 178 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: had something massive on their hands. Matthew, This crime scene 179 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: is huge. These victims are all about five yards apart. 180 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: The terrain is rough. There's water, there's boulders, they're sand, 181 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: there's wind. It's difficult to walk to it. It's difficult 182 00:11:55,800 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: to process it. Um the killer take the great dumping. Well, 183 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 1: you know what, there's been a lot of attack on 184 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: the police. Bob Colker with me from New York Magazine, 185 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: author of Lost Girls, which is awesome. It's on Amazon 186 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: dot com. Bob. But when you see the terrain and 187 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: you at first you think there's ten bodies out there 188 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: and police what did they have to stumble over them 189 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 1: as they're taking a walk eating a doughnut. No, it's 190 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: not like that at all. I think it's wrong to 191 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: attack cops in this way because it's just like Cheryl said, 192 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: that terrain, they're huge boulders. It's not like you know, 193 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: a sunny beach like you would see on a Jamaican 194 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,319 Speaker 1: beach where it's a beautiful white sand and there's nothing 195 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: but sand as far as I can see. It's not 196 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,839 Speaker 1: like that at all. There's crashing waves, the rocks are 197 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: out in the water, and everyone also attacked them for 198 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: not realizing about Shannon's nine one one calls twenty three minutes, 199 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: like Cheryl told us, but her call was transferred to 200 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: the New York State Police. She couldn't tell them where 201 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: she was. She was out in the dudes, running for 202 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: her life. It took nearly a month for cops to 203 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 1: connect her call, her nine one one call to the 204 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: missing person's report her family filed in New Jersey. Do 205 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: I have that right, Bob? It might portraying it correctly. Yes, 206 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: that's exactly right. The only thing I would add, Nancy 207 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: is that you really couldn't come up with a better 208 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: place to dispose of a body. That We're not just 209 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: talking about a lot of bramble and boulders the way 210 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: that you said. We're talking about a fifteen mile long 211 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:42,079 Speaker 1: stretch of highway with very very few exits, with very 212 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 1: very little on either side. It is completely straight, so 213 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, you could pull over 214 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: with your car onto the shoulder and you would know 215 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: if someone was coming for more than a minute to 216 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: get back in your car and leaves, so that you 217 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't arouse suspicion. It's really um. What makes it even 218 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: more amazing, Nancy, is that it is right near New 219 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: York City. So you've got a megalappa to eleven million people, 220 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: and it's a very accessible stretch of highway that is 221 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: also deserted. So you've got a megalappa to eleven million people, 222 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: and it's a very accessible stretch of highway that is 223 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: also deserted. So the suspect field is enormous. But if 224 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: I could just talk to the person that was responsible 225 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: for my sister's death, I would just say, you know, 226 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: you had no right to take an end of some 227 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: person's life. To continue giving it my all being a 228 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: mom of two and investigating the major crimes across our 229 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: country like the Long Island serial killer. You know how 230 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: I do it. One of the ways super beats. 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I'm thinking right now of 250 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: these ladies, and they're so casually discussed, like they're disposable 251 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: of being of advertising on Craigslist. Let me tell you 252 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: about one of these ladies. Lynn Bartolemy's daughter was Melissa. 253 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: She had been missing for a little over a year, 254 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: and she and her fiance were up watching CNN and 255 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: they started televising where the bodies were found. She Lynn 256 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: and her fiance didn't say a word they looked at 257 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: each other and they both started crying. They both knew 258 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: without saying a word, that it was Melissa. And to 259 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, it's really uncanny. I don't know if that 260 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: happens to other people, but it happened to me when 261 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: my fiancee was murdered. I had just come out of 262 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: a statistics exam. I was walking a long way across 263 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 1: campus to my job, which was in the library, and 264 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 1: I stopped midway no cell phones then, and picked up 265 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: a pay phone to call the library and tell them 266 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: that I was ten minutes away, that my test ran along, 267 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: and they said, call Keith's sister. I knew right then 268 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: that Keith was dead. Mm hmm. I've heard it over 269 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: and over and over. Have you ever heard that? Share 270 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: of course, Nancy. And here's the sad thing. The families 271 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 1: knew a lot more then they probably shared with a 272 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: ton of people. And one thing they knew is they 273 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: knew what their loved were doing for a living. And 274 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: that is another thing that law enforcement didn't take seriously 275 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 1: because these women were involved the prostitution. Listen to what 276 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: her sister tells forty eight hours. Do you think the 277 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 1: fact that your sister was an escort influenced the investigation 278 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: in what way they judged her by her profession. I'm 279 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: not as a person, you know, not asked like the 280 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: missing sister, the missing aunt. You know, they're just small 281 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,439 Speaker 1: missing prostitute. My sister at other dreams. You know, she 282 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: wanted to be a singer and actress. She was pursuing that, 283 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,880 Speaker 1: and she was also going to school to be a writer. 284 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCallum way in, I learned a valuable lesson from you, 285 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: you know, thirty years ago, and that is, regardless what 286 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: they do for a living, they don't deserve to be 287 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,719 Speaker 1: murdered or left for dead. Um. You and I had 288 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 1: a case where a woman was left for dead. She 289 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: was a prostitute out on F I B. And tons 290 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: of people were encouraging you during the trial to lead 291 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: with she the mother of two, she was you know, 292 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: raised in the church in Farebord and all that, and 293 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,400 Speaker 1: you thanked everybody for their input. And you walked straight 294 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: in that courtroom and you looked right at that jury 295 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: and the first thing out of your mouth was, Jane 296 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: Belle was a hooker. Let's get it out of the way. 297 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 1: And then you went into who she was. She was 298 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: more than that. She was more than that. You're more 299 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: than a talk show host. You're more than an attorney. 300 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 1: You're a mother, you're a sister, you're a daughter. We 301 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: all have layers to who we are, and if you 302 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 1: make them human, then it just might lead you to 303 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: their killer. Well, another thing to Pat Brown, criminal profile 304 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 1: are we and I do it too, but I try 305 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: to correct it immediately. We are looking for a killer, 306 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 1: and so one way to catch a serial killer is 307 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,439 Speaker 1: you analyze the victims. And that is one thing and 308 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: they all had in common. They were advertising on Craigslist. 309 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: Cheryl is right too. I mean we have all me 310 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: number one, I'm first in the line, have done plenty 311 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: of things I'm ashamed of. I wish I hadn't done. 312 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: I look back and I'm I hate, I cringe as 313 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: the twins say, it's so cringe e. But that I 314 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 1: don't want these women to be defined by the fact 315 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 1: that for a period of time in their life there 316 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 1: were hookers. But that is what unites them in our 317 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: search for the killer. Pat Brown, Yes, what what we 318 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: have to look at with victims is that that their practices, 319 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 1: for example, prostitution, drug use, dating online, all these things 320 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: can get them into trouble, can make them victims. But 321 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 1: in the police defense, the problem they have is that 322 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: they get many, many calls about people who have gone missing, 323 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 1: and they've gone missing on their own most of the time. 324 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 1: So the problem is they have how do they differentiate 325 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: between who's gone missing willingly as an adult, right and 326 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: who has gone missing because they are a victim of 327 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: a serial killer. That certainly was not the case. These 328 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: ten victims, female victims, helpless to fight back. And right 329 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 1: now we're talking about victim Bartolemy. Here's her sister, Amanda 330 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: talking to our friends at ABC's g m A. Listen 331 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 1: to what her sister says. My heart would stab and 332 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: standn't know what to do. Mostly did he say that 333 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: he had killed your sister on the phone. Yeah, it 334 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: was very frustrating. It broke my heart. Now, what's so 335 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: shocking to Bob Colker. That's Amanda, that's Bartolemy's little sister. 336 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: She was a teen girl. That's not the end of 337 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: her story about the phone calls. The phone calls apparently 338 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: the killer made to her not from Long Island but 339 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: from the Massive Square Gardens area. Let's talk about that 340 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,959 Speaker 1: Bob Coker, because that phone call tells me a lot. 341 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: For instance, that he knew how to evade being traced 342 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: on a cell phone. Yeah, he didn't talk for long 343 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: on the cell phone, and that I mean, you could 344 00:21:57,880 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 1: say that means that he knows that he's doing and 345 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 1: it could be the he just watches a lot of 346 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: crime procedurals. But at any rate, the thing that really 347 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: sticks with me here is that Melissa disappeared in July 348 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 1: of two thousand nine, and her remains weren't found along 349 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: Ocean Parkway for another year and a half. And just 350 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: a couple days, maybe a week or so after she disappears, 351 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: her little sister Amanda gets these amazing, the horrifying phone 352 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: calls from someone who could quite clearly as the killer, 353 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: and it takes two or three phone calls even for 354 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,199 Speaker 1: the police to take that seriously. There there's a pattern 355 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: in this case, not just a victimology and saying well, 356 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: these women lead risky lives, but of not taking their 357 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: disappearances seriously at all. Um. Melissa was gone for eighteen months, 358 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 1: and I don't think anyone really was aggressively searching for her, 359 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 1: even after the killer called her sister. The same with 360 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,439 Speaker 1: Maureen brainer Barnes. She disappeared in July of two thousand seven. 361 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 1: Her family couldn't even get her name on the list 362 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: of Missing Persons unnam as the National Registry. She was 363 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: gone for three and a half years, where her remains 364 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:05,479 Speaker 1: were found. There is victimology and then there is not 365 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: caring what happens to people. Certain people who go missing 366 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 1: because of what they do for a living. And I 367 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: think sometimes law enforcement crosses the line. He didn't just 368 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 1: call Bartolemy's little sister one time. He kept calling her 369 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: from her dead sister's cell phone. Sheryl McColl um. Uh. 370 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: He calls. And a lot has been made about his 371 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: familiarity with police techniques, and Bob Colker's right, whether you 372 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: learn them at police school, or you learn them learn 373 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: them watching C s I or Dexter or whatever it 374 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: is you're watching, you learn them. You know you can't 375 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: stay on a call about two minutes are over, because 376 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: not only can they paying your general area, they keep 377 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: paying you right down to the square block you're on. 378 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: So he goes to Madison Square Gardens, where even if 379 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: they pained him, he would be lost in thousands of people, 380 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 1: all right, And what he says, Cheryl, He says, do 381 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: you know what I did to your sister? I killed Melissa? 382 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: He knows her name. He knows her name. Then he 383 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 1: goes on with a lot of misogynistic slurs on her. 384 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: He calls her a horror in this and that, and 385 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 1: details everything he did very explicitly to her little sister. 386 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 1: And he leaves one of the conversations with a threat 387 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 1: that he knows where Amanda lives and that he might 388 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 1: just decide to come after her. Now, what does it 389 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: say about a serial killer. He's not out just for 390 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: the killing. He's terrorizing the victims family. He loven't it. 391 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,479 Speaker 1: He's getting off on it. He's smarter than the police. 392 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: They don't know who he is. He can't call anybody 393 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: he wants to call. But here's the good news. She 394 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 1: heard his voice, she heard his cadence, she heard his accent. 395 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: He basically confessed to her. She also spoke explicitly about 396 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: what he did to her. So perhaps now she has 397 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: information the police didn't have. So again, this is very 398 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: helpful for the police to identify the race of this person, 399 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: maybe the general area they grew up and even maybe 400 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: she can identify the voice if she ever hears it again. Well, 401 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: the reality is this phone call was made to sell. 402 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: Phone call was traced to the Madison Square Gardens area, 403 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: and you know, downtown New York, and that was the 404 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: end of the trail. Then there's Megan Waterman. Megan was 405 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: lasting in a holiday in Express on Long Island. Now, interestingly, 406 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: Bob Coulker, as you well know, it's the same holiday 407 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: inn where Amber Costello was to meet someone a few 408 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:53,959 Speaker 1: weeks before she died. She didn't go, but Megan did go. 409 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: She was just twenty two years old with the four 410 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: year old little girl, and by all accounts was a 411 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: great mom. So now you've got a local holiday in 412 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: connected to two women. What about that, Bob. And they're 413 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,719 Speaker 1: also connected because those disappearances happened pretty close to one another, 414 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: just a few months before the bodies were found. Megan 415 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: disappeared at the beginning of the summer and Amber disappeared 416 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: at the end of the summer, and then the bodies 417 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,360 Speaker 1: were found in the winter. So you've got someone who 418 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:34,199 Speaker 1: is developing a pattern, developing a set of things that 419 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: he likes to do that he thinks won't get him 420 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: into trouble there. That's a hotel that has a lot 421 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: of suspected crime activity, and so you know, maybe he 422 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: thought that he was safe, particularly if he didn't show 423 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: up any on any cameras. And that's the interesting thing 424 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: about uh Megan's disappearances that she's seen leaving the hotel, 425 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: but you don't see where she's going, and so it's 426 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: assumed that he's meeting her, um short walk away from 427 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,360 Speaker 1: the hotel, so that he doesn't get seen anywhere. Um. 428 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 1: That's also the same way that he met Amber was 429 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: I'll meet you with short walk away from your house. 430 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 1: He doesn't want to be seen, so think about us. 431 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: Sheryl McCullum, Director of the Cold Case Research Institute. This 432 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: guy knows how to beat a surveillance camera, beat a 433 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: cell phone, direct paying, and bat giving away his IP 434 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,120 Speaker 1: address because you know, he finds these women on Craigslist 435 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,880 Speaker 1: and contacts them to meet him, but he knows how 436 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: to hide his Internet Provider address. That's you know, I 437 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 1: would have to think long and hard if I wanted 438 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: to beat an IP address. Sheryl McCullum. No question, high 439 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: intelligence is very common. They studied their crimes, Nancy. They 440 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: know what they're doing, and as they go on and on, 441 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 1: year after year, they get better at it. At technology changes, 442 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: they keep up. This isn't anything new. Everything you've meant 443 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 1: and he can learn off the internet. A police press 444 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: conference says it all on behalf of the Suffolk County 445 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: Police Department. I want to convey to the loved ones 446 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,479 Speaker 1: in the family of all the victims that we are 447 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,159 Speaker 1: dedicated to do everything we can. On behalf of the 448 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: Suffolk County Police Department, I want to convey to the 449 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: loved ones in the family of all the victims that 450 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: we are dedicated to do everything we can to solve 451 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: this case. I've invited the FBI to work in close 452 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: collaboration with the Suffolk County Police Department in investigating these murders. 453 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: You know, there are no suspects at this time. Collectively, 454 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: we want to bring to justice this animal. Our investigation 455 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: indicates that each of the victims have been posting ads 456 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: on computer websites for various escort and other services prior 457 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: to their disappearance, and that what activities these victims may 458 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: have been give being part of our murders, It does 459 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: not matter. There were young women whose lines were cut 460 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: tragically short. The issue of one killer, two killers, three 461 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: killers for the ten remains that are being found has 462 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: been discussed, and I've been asked about the theory that 463 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: it's one serial killer. The facts of the case indicate 464 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: one person. The public, including the media, should realize that 465 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: this investigation is not an episode of C s I 466 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: or Criminal Minds that is going to be solved in 467 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: a one hour period. The investigation is multifaceted, multi jurisdictional, 468 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: and most likely is going to take a very long 469 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: period of time to complete. Three months after finding the 470 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: bodies of Melissa, Amber and Megan and Marine police now 471 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: began to find more bodies and body parts along what 472 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: was once a beautiful, untouched beach playground. Six new sets 473 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: of dead bodies in all Pat Brown criminal profile or 474 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: now we're finding body parts. They aren't neatly contained in 475 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: burlette bags. Was that on purpose or did they just 476 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: somehow end up getting out of the burlette bags through 477 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: maybe animal activity? Well, I do believe he dismembered them, 478 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: and this is a great piece of This is a 479 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,239 Speaker 1: great piece of evidence and a great clue. Along with 480 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: the fact that all the women were in such a 481 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: one location along the Long Long Island and also that 482 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: a local hotel issues that will tell the police. This 483 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: guy is very, very local. He knows the area, he 484 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: knows everything about the area, and he has a place 485 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: to bring these women and actually do something to them, 486 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: like like dismember them. So he's not just grabbing off 487 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: the street and going into a bush with him. He 488 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: actually has a home, a home that is local, and 489 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: that really narrows the suspect list down a whole lot. 490 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: So tin body uh eight of them strangled or suffocated. 491 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: None of them turned out to be Shannon Gilbert. Remember 492 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: she's the young girl in her twenties whose disappearance sparked 493 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: the entire investigation, the one who in screaming from that home. 494 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: Now ten bodies at this point, she's now been missing 495 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: ten months, her parents, her family distraught. The search for 496 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: Shannon leads police back to the last place she was seeing, 497 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: that gated community at Oak Beach, just three miles from 498 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: the dumping ground. It led them to three different men. 499 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: The man who hired Shannon, the man who drove her there, 500 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: and a doctor who seemingly put himself right in the 501 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: middle of the investigation. Who's the doctor, Bob Colcher joining 502 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: Me from New York Magazine and author of Lost Girls 503 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: on Amazon. One of the last places Shannon was seen, 504 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: or the last, was outside of the home of when 505 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: woman named Barbara Brennan, who was one of two different 506 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: neighbors who called nine one one that evening. He also 507 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 1: she also happened to be right around the corner from 508 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: Dr Peter Hackett's house. Dr Hackett is a prominent Oak 509 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: Beach citizen. He was well known to everyone as sort 510 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: of the local big shots. He would monitor the police 511 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: radio and let people know what was going on around there, 512 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: and then he inserts himself into the case. Within days 513 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: of Shannon's disappearance. He offers help to Shannon's boyfriend when 514 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: Shannon's boyfriend comes back to see what happened to her, 515 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: And then he calls Shannon's mother Mary, and Uh, it's 516 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: what he says to Mary that really is kind of 517 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:47,239 Speaker 1: mind blowing. He doesn't uh properly identify himself. He he 518 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: says that he runs a home for wayward girls. He says, 519 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: white white, white, white white white. Uh, I haven't heard 520 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: that phrase used. I mean, didn't they use that phrase 521 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: back in the eighteen hundreds. A home for wayward girls 522 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: who would say that, yeah, well he's he's kind of 523 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: a dramatic guy, Dr Hackett, And according to Mary, in 524 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: this call, he goes further. He says that he even 525 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 1: saw Shannon that night and tried to help her, and 526 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: that he was wondering if she got back home safely, 527 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: and then suggests that maybe he she should get to 528 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: a rehab sometime somewhere. And how did he get the 529 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: mother's phone number to call her? It seems as if 530 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: he got it from from Shannon's boyfriend when Shann's boyfriend 531 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 1: came to the house. But the crazy thing about these calls, 532 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: aside from what Mary says he said, is that he 533 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: denies it. He denies it for months and months and 534 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 1: months that he ever made these calls. Mary tells the police, 535 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: this guy called me, uh, you know, he says, I 536 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: never did it. He tells the media he didn't do it, 537 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: until finally he he changes the story and acknowledges that 538 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: he did call her. And so the question becomes why, 539 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: why why say these things to her? And then why 540 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 1: lie about it? And you know the only conclusion that 541 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: I've come to in my book Lost Girls, is that 542 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: he and other neighbors know a lot more about what 543 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 1: happened to Shannon that night. Then they're letting on. Everybody says, oh, 544 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 1: she was screaming outside Barbara Brennan's house and then that's 545 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,240 Speaker 1: the last we heard of her. I don't believe that's true. 546 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: Someone like Peter Hackett, who wants to do what's going 547 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 1: on all the time in his community, he would have 548 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 1: been outside that house like a shot. But he's been 549 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 1: denying that he saw her that night. He's been denying that. 550 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: He said that's to Mary. That's very odd, Bob, because 551 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 1: he calls the mom, according to her and says, I 552 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 1: saw your daughter. Did she make it home? Okay, I'm 553 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 1: really worried about her. Her daughter at that point had 554 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: not been saying or heard from, and and the mom's 555 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 1: going crazy and she's got this doctor calling her about 556 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: her daughter. But then when police go to speak to him, 557 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: he goes, no, no no, no, that never happened. Well. Former 558 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: Chief of Detectives Dominic Varone says Dr Hackett is not 559 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: a suspect in Shannon's death, that the calls to the 560 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: family are very strange, but he is not a suspect. 561 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: Now where does that leave me? Now to Cheryl McCollum, 562 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: a cold case research and director, was Shannon's body never found. 563 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 1: It was found, and at first they thought it might 564 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: be due to hypothermia. And we've had one expert to 565 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,840 Speaker 1: say that he believed that she was strangled. But again, 566 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,320 Speaker 1: interestingly enough, she was found where all the other bodies 567 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: were found. Now, Ellen Colorine with me Crime Online dot 568 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 1: Com reporter. Authorities believe that she may have been This 569 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: is yet another victim that launched the investigation. Her disappearance anyway, 570 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 1: running through the dunes and the rocks wildly, it was 571 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 1: it not she couldn't see, and that she fell into 572 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: the water and inhald water and died. Her family says, 573 00:35:55,480 --> 00:36:00,040 Speaker 1: no way, she was murdered. Ellen, that's right. She and 574 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,720 Speaker 1: when Shannon was found, she was in a marshy area 575 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 1: that directly surrounded the Oak Beach community where she had 576 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: gone to meet with Joseph Brewer. Um. Her body was 577 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:16,000 Speaker 1: found in that marsh. Her clothes were found elsewhere she 578 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 1: she had been um her clothes were found elsewhere. To 579 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: Sheryl McCollum, the Cold Case Research Institute, she's running through 580 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 1: rocks and brush and swamp, but yet she had taken 581 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: her shoes off and her pants. That doesn't sound like 582 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,239 Speaker 1: an accidental drowning to me, Nancy, I think the number 583 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: one one call is going to be key if we 584 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,319 Speaker 1: could hear it. If she in fact says they are 585 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 1: trying to kill me, that means she believes it's more 586 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 1: than one person. She didn't say he, She didn't save him. 587 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 1: She said they, And if she didn't trust the driver 588 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: or the man who's house she was at, or the 589 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: man's house that she knocked on the door, perhaps begging, begging, 590 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,399 Speaker 1: so if she didn't feel safe, and when she saw 591 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,320 Speaker 1: the headlights of the car coming, she dashed out again 592 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: and that person pursued her. So to me again, I 593 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: find it really hard to believe that she ran for 594 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,359 Speaker 1: cover on the very beat. But the serial killers using 595 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: for dumping graps. You know, I watched all these movies 596 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: with serial killers and they're like, that could have happened, 597 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: but it really does happen. For years, this thicket along 598 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 1: a beautiful beach highway on Long Island kept a terrible, 599 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: terrible secret. As drivers went by, they had no idea 600 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 1: they were passing the skeletal remains of mostly young women 601 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,360 Speaker 1: that had been there, dismembered and placed in burlapp bags. 602 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: And now a bizarre twist in the story. A Long 603 00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 1: Island carpenter, I married guy with two children has just 604 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 1: been sentenced to consecutive twenty five to live sentences for 605 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,920 Speaker 1: bating two women to death all the way back a 606 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:16,760 Speaker 1: ninety three and ninety four. His name John Bittroff. It's 607 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,720 Speaker 1: amazing to me that he had this facade of being 608 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:25,239 Speaker 1: married with children, but he bat two women dead. To 609 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 1: Bob Colker, New York Magazine, author of Lost Girls on Amazon, 610 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,320 Speaker 1: who is this guy? This is a guy who's essentially 611 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 1: been living alive for decades. He committed these murders years 612 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,840 Speaker 1: before most of the women disappeared. Who are the remains 613 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,840 Speaker 1: that are were found in this case, but not so 614 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: much before that it couldn't be linked. He lived way 615 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,279 Speaker 1: out in the eastern part of Long Island, near a 616 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,800 Speaker 1: set of pine barrens where some other murder victims have 617 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: been found in the past, and a few of those 618 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,720 Speaker 1: have been uh just partial remains, and the other remains 619 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,359 Speaker 1: have been found along Ocean Parkway where uh, you know, 620 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 1: Shannon Gilbert's disappearance was and so you know it could 621 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 1: be just more than a coincidence, obviously that he is 622 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,840 Speaker 1: someone who has done this before and was living alive 623 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 1: for decades and perhaps was continuing to kill all that time. 624 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 1: What's frustrating is that he hasn't been charged with any 625 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,840 Speaker 1: of those other murders, and it's been a very long time, 626 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,960 Speaker 1: and so we have to wonder what the police have 627 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,759 Speaker 1: in the way of evidence. But again, circumstantially speaking, you 628 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 1: have someone who knows what he's doing, knows how to 629 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: do it, knows how to lie about it, knows where 630 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 1: the pine barrens are. You know, he's an attractive suspect, 631 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 1: at least in the popular imagination. Now, this guy, the 632 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 1: Long Island corporator John Bittroll, arrested in two thousand fourteen 633 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 1: in an unrelated investigation on the deaths of two prostitutes 634 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:58,760 Speaker 1: left in wooded areas in eastern Long Island. The bodies 635 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,280 Speaker 1: were newed. It was Redd ten Greedy and Colleen mcnammy. 636 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 1: They were just nine miles apart, the same stretch of 637 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:14,400 Speaker 1: area as the Long Island serial killers. Now, this is 638 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 1: what else we know about bitch trof Pat Brown. Apparently 639 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:23,560 Speaker 1: he was a prolific hunter and loved to show off 640 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 1: gutting the animals after he killed them, eating one of 641 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:34,959 Speaker 1: their hearts, reportedly raw during the hunting trip. Yeah, John 642 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 1: Bill Trof, I mean, he is my number one suspect. 643 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 1: We have a guy here who sounds very psychopathic, very sadistic, 644 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 1: and he likes to dismember things. He's in the local area, 645 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,719 Speaker 1: has a home, He's got everything that would connect him 646 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,719 Speaker 1: to these cases, and he has the real good connections 647 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,080 Speaker 1: to the two they've already charged him with. But as 648 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,759 Speaker 1: to why has men charged with others, I think the 649 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 1: problem is the police have to have enough evidence to 650 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,319 Speaker 1: do that, even if they believe it's him circumstantially. They 651 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,799 Speaker 1: don't want to just go charging willy nilly without being 652 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: able to say exactly, we have the links and that's 653 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:08,920 Speaker 1: the proper thing to do. What more do we know 654 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,520 Speaker 1: about this guy? To Ellen color and Crime online dot 655 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,360 Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter, what can you tell me about John 656 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,560 Speaker 1: Bit We know that he's someone who's capable of extreme 657 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: brutality and extreme violent but also capable of keeping up 658 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 1: a facade of being a normal, functional person that he was. 659 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,239 Speaker 1: He was functioning in society for years and years and years. 660 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:34,720 Speaker 1: After the women that he killed before he was arrested 661 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 1: and convicted for those for those murders. So it does 662 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: seem possible to me that he's someone who's capable of 663 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,279 Speaker 1: doing much more than that. If you can carry on 664 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,799 Speaker 1: a normal life and go undetected while knowing in the 665 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: back of your mind that you have committed these brutal, 666 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,960 Speaker 1: violent crimes, who's to say you're going to stop it too. 667 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,960 Speaker 1: When asked by the Associated Press about bit Troll's possible 668 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,719 Speaker 1: connection to the Long Island serial killer case, which as 669 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 1: we know by now ten other victims, quote the prosting 670 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 1: Cuter says there are remains of the victims that gil 671 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,880 Speaker 1: Go Beach that may be a tribute to to the 672 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:16,280 Speaker 1: handiwork of Bittrof and that investigation is ongoing. Another tidbit, 673 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum from the Cold Case Research Institute that we 674 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 1: learned is that one of bit Troff's dead victims was 675 00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:33,640 Speaker 1: best friends with one of the ten gil Go Beach victims. Now, 676 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,799 Speaker 1: what's the likelihood of that being a coincidence? Well, you know, 677 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,960 Speaker 1: I don't believe in coincidence, is Nancy Um. I think 678 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 1: any connection is a firm step toward linkage. To other 679 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,239 Speaker 1: things that are going to be similar. Um. I think 680 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 1: it's really important impact and even follow up that for 681 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 1: people to understand killers can change and alter their emo. UM. 682 00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,839 Speaker 1: So for example, with Ted Bundy, we saw him kill people, 683 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,839 Speaker 1: the metal rod branble people and then snatch a twelve 684 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,280 Speaker 1: year old girl straight off the road in broad daylight. 685 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,400 Speaker 1: So they don't appear to be the same killer on paper, 686 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 1: but once you start connecting other signatures and similarities, you'll 687 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,239 Speaker 1: be surprised. And here is Bits Troff, the avid huntsman 688 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,240 Speaker 1: living in a large home in Manorville with his wife 689 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:27,839 Speaker 1: and two children, arrested years after the first victims were 690 00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,719 Speaker 1: found thanks to d n A. As it turned out, 691 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,280 Speaker 1: his brother Timothy was in prison for contempt of court 692 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,960 Speaker 1: and the brother Timothy was required to give a DNA sample. 693 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 1: That is when a quote hit popped up on the 694 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,719 Speaker 1: state database under familial DNA, which is now all out 695 00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:51,120 Speaker 1: in New York, tying a male relative of the brother 696 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:59,239 Speaker 1: two Cole Case murders. That's what familial DNA is. When 697 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,239 Speaker 1: you get a hit that shows you that DNA on 698 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:08,640 Speaker 1: the crime scene matches somebody in the killer's family, not 699 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,640 Speaker 1: necessarily the killer, but a relative, and then you go 700 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:16,640 Speaker 1: from there. You start from there now to you. Bob Colker, 701 00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:20,279 Speaker 1: New York Magazine, author of Last Girls, Are you convinced 702 00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:24,160 Speaker 1: Bitch Rolf is the Long Island serial killer? Well, you 703 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:25,680 Speaker 1: know you would. You would like to think that with 704 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,160 Speaker 1: so many victims, even if some of them are old 705 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,480 Speaker 1: and skeletonized, there would be at least some friends of 706 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,960 Speaker 1: evidence that they could use, you know, to match DNA, 707 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,160 Speaker 1: the same way they did with Colleen and Rita. But 708 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,279 Speaker 1: that doesn't seem to be the case, because if they 709 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,640 Speaker 1: had it, he would have been charged by now. I 710 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,799 Speaker 1: think the most they can do is say that they're 711 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: looking closely at him, and that to me suggests that 712 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,600 Speaker 1: they don't have the goods yet. But that doesn't mean 713 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,279 Speaker 1: they won't. I mean, Long Island and other places are 714 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:55,360 Speaker 1: filled with stories of cases I've covered where the prime 715 00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,680 Speaker 1: suspect has walked among us and everyone knows their suspect, 716 00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:00,680 Speaker 1: and the police don't appear to be at doing anything, 717 00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:04,359 Speaker 1: and then one day they've turns out they've been um, 718 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,920 Speaker 1: you know, making a case all along and building their case, 719 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,759 Speaker 1: and then when they're ready they go for it. So 720 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,360 Speaker 1: maybe that will happen a bit Roth's case. It's interesting 721 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,759 Speaker 1: what um your guests said about coincidences. There are so 722 00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:21,720 Speaker 1: many coincidences in this case. If Shannon Gilbert hadn't been uh, 723 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,920 Speaker 1: you know, a missing person so close to these other bodies, 724 00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:26,920 Speaker 1: we wouldn't even know there was a long eyel on 725 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,040 Speaker 1: serial killer. And if she wasn't a victim to, then 726 00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,080 Speaker 1: the fact that her disappearance happened is even more coincidental. 727 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:37,640 Speaker 1: It's astonishing that that so many different terms of fate 728 00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:41,879 Speaker 1: have really created a case that still is so very unsolved, 729 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:50,040 Speaker 1: so very unsolved. Ten victims, their skeletonized bodies found littering 730 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:55,000 Speaker 1: the beach, hidden away for years. My concern are there 731 00:45:55,040 --> 00:46:00,239 Speaker 1: more as of yet undiscovered Nancy Grace crimes to He's 732 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:19,000 Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend M