WEBVTT - Reggae: Kingston’s Gift to the World 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:07.680 Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:13.880 Hey, welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:16.520 and Jerry's here too. She even said, yeah, I'm on 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.680 right before we started recording, because this is stuff you 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:20.119 should know. 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:25.319 Reggae Edition, that's right. And here's the little thing you 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:28.640 probably didn't even notice, my friend, is we always clap 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:33.560 on the count of three when we go to record 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:35.320 so we can sink our sound. Here's a little behind 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.159 the scenes for you everybody. Sure, but I clapped on 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:45.360 the four. Did you just you know, make it super reggae? 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:48.440 That was pretty great? Yeah, because so what you were 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:56.360 doing was skanging, that's right, and skang is slang for gunn. 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:02.920 In Kingston, I'm Kingston in jam is the world capital 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:06.600 of reggae. It's one of those things where you're like, well, 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:08.640 where jazz come from, where blues come from? Well, it 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:13.680 come from here here. No reggae one came from Kingston, Jamaica, 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:16.360 and it was built from all this other stuff, all 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:19.520 these other influences, but there is no question where it 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:21.679 actually emerged, and that was Kingston. 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:25.520 Yeah, for sure. I was playing golf yesterday with my 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:30.920 friend Justin, you know, Justin from trench Town, Justin from London, 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:33.200 which will also play a part. But he asked what 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:35.360 we were recording on today and I told him reggae 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:39.720 and he was like, did you know that reggae is 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:44.000 like fairly new? And I said, he was like, I 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:46.200 always thought it was like in the forties and fifties. 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:49.280 He's like, but true, reggae was like the late sixties. 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:53.120 You make Justin sound like a real milk toast. I 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.800 can tell everybody that is not what Justin sounds like. 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:58.920 Uh yeah, but that was you know, that's true. And 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:01.160 we'll get to all that timeline and everything. But yeah, 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:03.680 reggae is a is a I mean, on the general 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:06.080 timeline of music history, it's a pretty new form. 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:10.480 Yeah, almost just a little over fifty years old. 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:15.560 Uh yeah, I mean I'm fifty five. I was born 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.520 in seventy one. So you do the math in. 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:21.799 An expert, I'm not doing the ma. Yeah. I think 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:24.240 nineteen sixty eight tends to be like the year that 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:27.880 people pretty much put their finger on when reggae was born. 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:31.120 But let's let's talk about all this. Let's let's get 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:33.080 to the get to the beginning. 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:36.079 I guess okay, Yeah, which means we've got to talk 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:37.880 about Jamaica as a place, right. 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:41.160 Yeah, because one of the things about reggae, Olivia helps 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:45.320 us with this, so it had to Livia. One of 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:49.840 the things about Jamaica and reggae is that they're like 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:53.000 a milange of different people and cultures who are all 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:56.560 kind of brought together, a significant number of them against 0:02:56.560 --> 0:03:00.639 their will, and all kind of form the society where 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:03.840 it was all mixed together. And one of the things 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:06.600 that emerged was a real appreciation of music and folk 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:11.520 music that kind of developed. And it was very unique 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:15.720 because Jamaica is unique. I mean, every Caribbean island is unique. 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:19.040 Even though they have pecular histories, they all just they 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:22.079 they formed different milanges in different ways. 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:26.600 Yeah, different milanges because you have indigenous people and then 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:29.080 in the case of well most of them, you had 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:32.560 people from Africa brought over in the slave trade. So 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:37.720 in this case in Jamaica, that combined with like African 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:42.080 work songs and the you know, the European musical influence 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:45.360 that was there at the time they mixed together. And 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.640 in the forties and fifties, the first thing we got 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:51.520 as sort of a predecessor to reggae was called Mento. 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:54.400 Maybe that's what Justin was talking about. 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:59.600 No, he's talking about Mento's the fresh mint, the capital M, 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:03.160 which is sort of like if you heard it, it 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:05.880 might sound a little bit like Calypso out of Trinidad. 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:10.000 It's got banjo and like guitar. It's got something called 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:13.880 a rumba box, which is like a percussive thing with 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:18.880 pluck steel times. So Minto was kind of the earliest predecessor. 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:21.719 And then in the fifties, I guess the late fifties 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:24.320 and early sixties, because that was the forties and fifties 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:28.880 American R and B on the radio, which also came 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:34.000 from African and European influences. Obviously that produced what became 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:37.480 the more direct predecessor did reggae, which was SKA. 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:40.799 Yeah, that's when things took a really dark turn. 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:45.360 Oh man, Scott's I like all this stuff. I guess 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:47.560 we'll talk a little bit about like our affinity for it, 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:49.640 But it's not the kind of thing I listened to 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.520 like all the time. But I have my moments where 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:55.600 I will put on like for an entire morning, I 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:58.240 will listen to like old like fifties and sixties ska 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:00.840 and like super early reggae. I like the early early stuff. 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:03.400 Okay, cool, I can't really falter for that. I think 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:05.240 I just have a bad taste in my mouth about 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:08.240 ska from the nineties. 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:09.159 The Mining Mighty Bostones. 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:13.240 I'm not calling anybody in particular out, I'm calling all 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:14.680 of them out basically. 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.159 Yeah, but that that early stuff is I think you 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:19.880 could probably appreciate a little more, like the Desmond Decker stuff. 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:23.520 Sure, sure, I'm sure I could too. One of the 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:25.839 reasons that that suddenly came up in the fifties and 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:29.880 sixties is because transistor radio start had become available. Before that, 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:34.880 Jamaica had basically access to BBC style radio stations that 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:36.920 weren't playing R and B, and so all of a 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:40.080 sudden they could pick up stations from Miami and we're like, oh, 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:42.640 I like this stuff. And that was another thing too, 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:48.240 that that reggae was built on, where like Jamaican people 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:50.520 who are like I like this, I'm gonna pull this in. 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:52.320 I like that, I'm gonna pull this in so much 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.320 so that like the concept of sampleton in the hip 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:59.000 hop community is actually a lot of that comes from 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:02.479 this kind of mindset that reggae was born out of. 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:04.160 It was like I like this, so I'm going to use. 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:06.719 This, Yeah for sure, Like this episode definitely has some 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:10.159 crossover with the hip hop episode, and obviously when we 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:11.719 get to the rest of our I stuff, the highly 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:15.920 solassy episode. But you know, the technology of the radio 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:19.680 was certainly big, and also what was big was and 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:21.440 you know, you see this a lot in the development 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:24.160 of culture, like different technologies coming along and in this case, 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:29.400 just literally electricity being spread throughout Jamaica is what led 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:33.160 to something called toasting and DJs, now that they had 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:35.880 widespread electricity, could set up these mobile discos. They were 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.839 called sound systems and this was in and around Kingston 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:43.520 and the DJs developed this toasting I was about, say 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.520 tradition because that makes it sound more like something you 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:48.880 do at a wedding, but a musical style where they 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:51.960 would speak and sing over the recorded music, and that 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:54.520 that directly led to stuff like you know rap. 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:59.599 Yeah, like do you ever listen to like reggae shows 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:01.279 on college radio or something like that. 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:03.400 Well, yeah, that's why a lot of times I play 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.680 on Sunday morning because that's when album eighty eight's reggae show. 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:09.320 Was right okay, so like and then sometimes the DJ 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:11.080 would just turn the music down all of a sudden 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:14.360 and say something, yeah, oh yeah, that's toasting right, And 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:18.320 it can be done well, and it can very frequently 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:19.480 be done not well. 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:22.000 It depends on how toasted they are. 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.240 Sure exactly, or what they have to say too, Like 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:27.160 you have to have something to say that should have 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:29.440 to do with the song or something important. It shouldn't 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:32.200 be like, you know, shop your back to school sales 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.920 at Target or something, and then you turn the music 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:35.840 back up real quick. 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:38.720 Sometimes you hear these guys and it's the best because 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:43.160 I think our old beloved WFMU in New Jersey, I 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:45.480 think they had a reggae show too. Sometimes you can 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:49.160 you can hear these DJs are super super stoned. 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:55.280 Yeah for sure. I mean they're probably Rawstafarians, and so 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:57.680 then that's like part of their religion, you know, So 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:01.680 it definitely makes sense even if they're not. If you're 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:04.240 so into reggae that you host a reggae show, you 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:06.560 probably are so in like a pretty decent amount of 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:06.880 the time. 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:08.400 It's probably a part of your lifestyle. 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:13.880 Yep, they're like time to put on my game face. Right, 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:16.880 I smoke my weekly joint before my my radio show. 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:17.480 That's right. 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.160 So some some people are like, Okay, I like the 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:23.960 scot stuff, but I get really worn out dancing to it. 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:27.840 Maybe we could slow it down a little bit. And 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:30.760 what came out of that was rock steady. One word 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:35.120 probably one of the best names for any music musical 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:37.640 genre if you ask me, yeah, I'm with you, and 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:40.080 rock steady is it's It has a lot of the 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:43.319 same components and instruments and everything, but like I said, 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:46.840 it slowed down. There's much more of a focus on vocals, 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.000 so like there's like a you know, lyrics to the 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:53.839 song and the theme or something like that. And if 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:56.120 you're like, I don't know if I've ever heard rock Steady, 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:59.600 you definitely have because there are some hits that came 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:01.520 out of the Apparently it's just like a two year 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:04.880 period that rock City was popular. But the original tide 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:08.760 is high, Ain't No Sunshine as in Ain't No Sunshine 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:11.400 when She's Gone, that came out of the rock Steady era. 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:14.559 If you've ever listened to the Upsetters, like the early 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:18.800 stuff really organ heavy, everybody sings at once, so the 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:23.319 mic peaks and gets overloaded like that is that's rock steady. 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:26.640 Yeah, for sure. And rock steady is what kind of 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:28.839 directly led to what we know as reggae. And when 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:31.640 they started that sort of heavy thumping bass and a 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:37.120 little more percussion percussive forward, that's when reggae was kind 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:41.040 of born, you know. I know. Olvia points out that 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:45.439 there's some other kind of I guess just maybe unusual influences. 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.800 And one was a school in Kingston, the Alpha Boys School. 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:51.760 It was run by It was a trade school and 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:58.400 it was a nun run affair and they had I 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.400 keep wanting to say it's like unusual, but maybe it wasn't. 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:05.280 But they had a really great music education program. And 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.520 there was a nun there named Sister Iggy, Sister Mary 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:12.600 Ignatius Davies, and she was just a big time music fan. 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:16.360 She was especially big into jazz and ended up having 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:20.000 a lot of like future reggae like you know, not 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:22.320 the Hugest Stars, although yellow Man did go through there, 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:26.280 but some early like ska and reggae horn players, especially 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:28.280 because of her jazz focus came through her school. 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:32.480 Right for sure. That yeah, I had no idea about that. 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:34.640 Did you No, That's super cool. 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:42.800 Though there's also obviously the Rastafari influence is significant, and 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:50.240 Rastafarianism was around before reggae, and reggae was actually around 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:55.400 before reggae musicians became Rastafarians, and it was if you 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.079 go back and listen to our episode in Holly Selassie, 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:01.640 it was his visit and I think nineteen sixty six 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:07.400 that just opened the doors to Rastafarianism and reggae being 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:09.680 like essentially hand in hand. 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:14.679 Yeah, for sure, And I thought we had done one 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:18.680 on Rastafarianism, but I think I put together an article 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:21.320 and at the time you were like, we've been doing 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:23.600 too much religious stuff, and I just tucked it away. 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:26.560 That never came back. And then when we covered yeah, yeah, 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:28.840 this is a while ago, and then we covered Highly Selassie, 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:32.319 it basically covered that well enough. 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.800 I think, oh it did okay, because we definitely got 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:37.160 into it for sure, But that episode was about well 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:38.280 a lot more than just that. 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:39.680 Oh yeah yeah. 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:42.880 But at the time, before his visit to Jamaica a 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:48.520 state visit, this is an official visit, the Rastafarians, even 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:51.240 in Jamaica were seen as just kind of weirdos. They 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:53.520 were on the fringe. They weren't taken seriously at all. 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:58.040 They were just a strange religion. And then Holly Selassie 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:01.360 came and essentially just by recognizing them, I think he 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:06.840 awarded medals to some Rastafarian preachers there. He legitimized it 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:08.640 in the eyes of Jamaica. Now all of a sudden, 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:13.400 a bunch of people, including Rieda Marley, are like, I Rastafari. Yeah, 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:17.520 and that's it's like, that's the moment that it spread 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:19.200 to reggae music. 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:22.559 Yeah, and this was in the lead up to their 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.920 eventual freedom from the colonizers and there, you know, the 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:28.040 white supremacist sort of system that they have been living 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:31.120 under they call Babylon. So that's why I hear Babylon 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:33.959 a lot in the songs. And I mentioned Desmond Decker 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:37.880 and his you know, probably most notable song is the Israelites, 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:39.360 and that's what he was talking about there, right. 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:42.880 Yeah, that came out in nineteen sixty eight, and I've 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:44.719 seen that some people point to that, or a lot 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:46.800 of people, I guess, point to that is the bridge 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:49.920 between rock steady and reggae. That song, and it's that 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:53.640 song you think it is like whoa the israel Lites, right, 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:57.600 oh nice and other things I have been practicing for weeks. 0:12:57.720 --> 0:12:59.719 This is a little lower key, but you're under the weather, so. 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.120 Yes, thank you for giving me that pass. But yeah, 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:06.560 the song, I don't think it saysn't necessarily explicitly, but 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:11.760 the gist of it is this Rasafarian idea that the 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:14.160 stolen Africans who have spread all over the world and 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:19.000 their descendants are the true Israelites and they are trapped 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:24.080 in Babylon, which is white supremacist run Western world. Yeah, 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:30.000 and that through self determination and deliverance by Jah, they 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:36.160 will be able to emancipate themselves essentially mind, body, and spirit. 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:40.040 And that's what Rastafarianism is about. 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:42.800 Yeah, for sure. And there was a drummer, a Rastafari 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:47.199 drummer name they called him Count Ozzie, but Oswald Williams. 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:50.760 He played on an early song in nineteen fifty eight, 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:53.599 so this is like, you know, still pre dating reggae. 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.520 It was a sky recording by the Folks Brothers called 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.280 Oak Carolina. And you know what, we're gonna be mentioning 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:00.960 a lot of songs. But if you're in a place 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:03.560 where you can like queue some of these up. I 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:05.760 encourage it because they're all great, a lot of this 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:08.120 early stuff, And that's kind of what I like about 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:10.600 it is it sounds like it was recorded in a 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:13.440 tan can. Like the recordings aren't the best quality, but 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:15.640 it adds a lot of juge to it. 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:21.440 I think nice. So oh, one other thing about Rastafarianism too, 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:26.440 So I said it predated reggae. I mean it basically 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:30.160 came out of the twenties and thirties when Marcus Garvey 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:36.320 predicted that an emperor would be elected or yeah, seated, 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:37.920 I don't know what you would call it when you 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.880 install a Look there's going to be an emperor that 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:44.480 came out of Africa, and people are like, oh, Holly, Selassie, 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:48.800 that's him. And so from that moment on, Rastafarianism was born. 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:53.200 And apparently dreads had been part of Rastafarianism as far 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:57.040 back as the nineteen forties. Oh wow, I had no idea. 0:14:58.560 --> 0:14:59.720 What about white guy dreads? 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:03.800 Those came out of the nineties. I blamed the nineties 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:06.680 SKA revival for that too, probably. 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:10.600 So yeah, yeah, all right, that feels like a good 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:11.000 time for. 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:13.120 A break, right, Yeah, I think so. 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:16.600 All right, uh, and we will come back with more 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:17.880 on reggae right after this. 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:52.200 So Chuck, we're back. Yeah, let's hear it. Let's this 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.880 I threw to you. Really, I was being serious, you guys. 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:59.360 Here's another little behind the scenes thing. Chuck and I 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:01.960 decide on the fly, which one's going to bring us 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:04.840 back from break, And this time I said I was 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:06.640 going to go, and so we came back and I 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:10.320 immediately tossed to you. The reason why I did that, 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:14.600 apparently it was not that great of a joke, is 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:18.440 because I'm not super musical, like I know reggae. I 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:22.480 would pick reggae out in a like maybe two notes. 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:24.480 I could be like, that's a reggae song. Yeah, but 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:27.760 I can't mimic it, like and when I read about it, 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.360 I don't have any idea what's going on. It actually 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:33.080 confuses my understanding of reggae, which is dumb. 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:35.880 Well, if you're going to count me to mimic reggae 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:38.120 with my mouth, although I kind of just did with 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:42.040 that drum intro. Yeah, people are probably gonna be disappointed. 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.600 But we should talk a little bit about the instrumentation 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:47.000 because it's it's like you might find in a like 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.200 a rock band, maybe minus some stuff and plus some stuff. 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:55.040 Drums sometimes steal drums, which I was trying to mimic. 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:56.960 Oh, it's your base. 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:01.600 You got your electric guitar, a lot of percussion, you know, 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:05.080 bongos and shakers and stuff like that. Bob Marley used 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:08.120 some cool like synth cynthy sounds and organ sounds. 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:14.360 You have it's my life on what it's my life? 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:18.160 Don't you fucket? Isn't that the Whalers? 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:19.600 I don't know that song? 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:20.879 Yes, you do? 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:24.440 Well, maybe I just don't maybe okay. 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:26.480 Yeah, it's a very cynthy song. 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:29.600 Yeah, yeah, I just I didn't recognize the rendition. It's 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:30.480 just because you're sick though. 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:32.840 Yeah, it's because I'm under the weather. 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:36.800 Horn section. Sometimes you might get in a reggae band. 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:40.240 But you know, I mentioned earlier that it's the that 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.880 rhythm of reggae that is kind of maybe the most 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:47.919 distinguishing aspect of it. It's a four beat rhythm with 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:50.520 the emphasis on the second, the two, and the four. 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:55.199 Where's traditional rockets, it's not that. So that's why when 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.600 you hear that, you know that that chunking rhythm guitar 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:01.240 that don't chink It don't chink. That's on the two 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:05.800 and four, and it's you know, it's a real distinct sound. 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:08.520 And you know, as we'll see, you know, once they 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:12.080 this kind of transferred over to London, you had tons 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:15.760 of groups like the police and the Specials and Madness 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:19.920 kind of like latching onto that that sort of two 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:22.240 and the four. You know, it's a very distinct thing 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:23.440 for sure. 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:31.840 In the seventies it definitely caught Great Britain by the curly. Yeah, 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:34.560 and Ireland too. We can't forget Ireland ever, we never 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:37.040 do no, of course, not even if we don't mention Ireland, 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:41.600 we still are including Ireland, that's right, but we should 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:44.479 say it separately because they're not great Great Britain. 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:47.239 We didn't want to rally anyone up. 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:50.840 So thank you. That's what I was trying to get to, 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.560 was you explaining the rhythm, because I can't. I have 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:57.840 so little rhythm that I can't even explain it verbally. Yeah, 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:01.000 but that's essentially what you just said, Like that's one 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:03.679 of the hallmarks, if not the hallmark of reggae. And 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:06.399 then you also said that sometimes they have horns. I 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:09.159 feel like that's one of the main things that distinguishes 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:13.399 reggae from rock steady or SKA is they've really kind 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:17.360 of moved away from horns where horns were really really 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:20.280 important to rock Steady and in particular SKA. 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:21.480 Oh, yeah for sure. 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:25.000 Yeah. So one of the other things about reggae too, 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:28.240 that's good to know that's easily overlooked. If all you've 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:32.880 ever listened to is say Bob Marley or maybe even 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:35.760 Burning Spear or something like that. Yeah, they tend to 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:41.240 focus more on like spiritual aspect self determination. There's a 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:44.680 lot of reggae out there that focuses on violence and crime, 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:50.360 and because it definitely emerged in that context. If you've 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.399 heard Bob Marley, you've definitely heard of Trenchtown. Trench Town 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:59.600 is a low income neighborhood in Kingston. I think part 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:02.920 of it's chanty. Even it's that low income and you've 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:06.480 lived in Kingston, there was a really good chance that 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:09.000 one of your only options was to turn to crime 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:12.639 to make a living, and so there was this romanticization 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:16.399 of crime that was going on in the area at 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.200 the same time that reggae was emerging in the same area. 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:23.199 So they are kind of intertwined. There's also like a 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:27.600 real like may it's really male dominated. Still today it 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:31.159 is generally a male dominated music genre. So there's just 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:35.600 like inevitably a certain machismo that's still that's in the 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:39.320 background there. It might not be always talked about. It's 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:42.280 more dance hall, but in reggae even too, there's this 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:44.919 idea that you know, the man's in charge. It's just 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:45.560 how it is. 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:49.680 Yeah, And you know, there's a lot of sort of 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:51.879 like I mentioned, the influence on hip hop and a 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:54.200 lot of sort of lines that you can draw. I 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:57.879 think definitely more women broke through in hip hop than 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:03.040 in reggae. But this, you know, this violent context of 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:08.000 the gangster persona, a lot of it taken from American movies. 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:12.000 In both reggae and hip hop. The rude boy culture 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:15.439 was what it was called in reggae, but you can 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:19.960 see a lot of similarities there. The actual word reggae 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:23.720 probably didn't come around until nineteen sixty eight. It was 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:26.360 a song by the Great Great Toots and the Maytals 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:30.359 Frederick Tootz Hibbert. There was a song called do the 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:34.920 Reggae r E G G A Y. And when asked 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:38.520 about that, word. He didn't say like, hey, I invented 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:42.639 the word, but he said that he was replacing the 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:46.800 word StrEG a s t r e g g a E, 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:50.760 which was like a raggedy looking woman. But he said 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:53.280 that had a negative connotation. It was like a derogatory term, 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:55.199 so I didn't want to use that, so I changed 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:59.600 it over. And then there's another story where it was 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:04.960 r e y, which was a dance trend taken from 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:08.800 the terms for ragged clothing, and that turned into RGE 0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:14.280 dash RGE reggae reggae, which was about like fighting or protesting. 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:18.960 So there's not like a definitive like hey, this is 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:21.920 where the word came from, but probably maybe a mashup 0:22:21.960 --> 0:22:22.800 of those three things. 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:26.440 Well, there's another entront too, an artist named Little Roy 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:29.200 who the same year that Toots in the May Tolls 0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:33.000 song came out, at nineteen sixty eight, he released a 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:36.040 song or maybe even an album called Reggae Soul, and 0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:38.560 he spelled it the way that we spell it today too, 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:41.960 so it's just completely muddled. But it seemed to have 0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:45.440 come around in nineteen sixty eight, the year reggae broke. 0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:48.480 Yeah, and that's a lot of that was thanks to 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:52.440 like I said, Frederick Toots Hibbert. If you want to 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:55.360 dial up some early Toots in the May Tolls, it's 0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:58.440 pretty pretty good listening. They started out in nineteen sixty two, 0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:01.800 obviously Scott at the time, but their first big hit 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:04.840 was in nineteen sixty eight with the song fifty four 0:23:04.960 --> 0:23:08.480 fifty six That's my number, great tune, and they had 0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:11.440 a bunch of you know, not they didn't take over 0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:15.120 America like Bob Marley later would because this is the 0:23:15.359 --> 0:23:18.439 late sixties, so America was consumed with all, you know, 0:23:18.480 --> 0:23:20.199 like the hippie culture and everything that was going on 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:23.520 musically there. So it would take Bob Marley in the 0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:25.119 seventies to break through in the States. 0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:30.240 Yeah. But at the same time too, the suburban nights 0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:34.560 in America and the mid sixties were into Caribbean stuff 0:23:34.840 --> 0:23:37.280 like exotica and things like that, which is why we 0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:40.119 have heard songs like the Tide Is High. So they 0:23:40.119 --> 0:23:43.040 did kind of make its way over here. But like 0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:47.439 no one has ever taken the world by storm, at 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:49.679 least as far as reggae goes. Like Bob Marley, he 0:23:49.840 --> 0:23:54.199 just went. He just became an international icon, like in 0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:57.080 a very short time even too, as we'll see. 0:23:57.280 --> 0:24:00.240 Yeah for sure, so he's coming up everybody. That be 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:02.119 funny if we did a whole episode and did mission 0:24:02.960 --> 0:24:06.040 just like, it'd be an April Fool's episode, Yeah for sure. 0:24:06.920 --> 0:24:09.639 But we you know, producers, just like all genres, like 0:24:09.680 --> 0:24:12.880 producers and engineers, had a lot to do with its. 0:24:12.920 --> 0:24:16.359 Not all music, actually some more than others, but definitely 0:24:16.400 --> 0:24:20.879 with reggae. Those a guy named King Tubby born Osborne Ruddick, 0:24:21.400 --> 0:24:23.800 and he was one of the guys, you know, kind 0:24:23.840 --> 0:24:26.200 of a studio wizard that was like building his own 0:24:26.240 --> 0:24:30.040 hardware to create effects, and he was the guy that 0:24:30.119 --> 0:24:33.879 first started stripping out vocals to create dub plate and 0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:37.040 that's what the DJs would toast over, yeah. 0:24:36.720 --> 0:24:39.920 Which, as we'll see, sounds a lot like hip hop 0:24:39.920 --> 0:24:43.720 and rapping right yeah, and dub music right and so 0:24:43.880 --> 0:24:47.080 dub music. If I don't know if King Tubby was 0:24:47.119 --> 0:24:50.240 the guy who was credited with actually coming up with it, 0:24:50.600 --> 0:24:53.920 there are others, least Scratch Perry as another originator, or 0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:57.280 dub Hopeton Lewis, who came to be known as scientists 0:24:58.560 --> 0:25:01.600 in my for my money, the best dub musician of all. 0:25:02.280 --> 0:25:04.600 But the thing that these guys had in common was 0:25:04.600 --> 0:25:08.640 they were using like recording equipment, often cast off recording 0:25:08.680 --> 0:25:12.879 equipment that they built their own rigs out of that 0:25:12.920 --> 0:25:17.879 they were using essentially as early synthesizers, and it was 0:25:17.920 --> 0:25:20.920 a lot like how Kraftwork and Divo who came later did. 0:25:20.920 --> 0:25:23.399 It was like, I want to make the sound, but 0:25:23.440 --> 0:25:25.280 there's nothing out there that makes that sound, so I'm 0:25:25.280 --> 0:25:29.000 gonna build my own thing. And that's what dub music 0:25:29.080 --> 0:25:31.320 essentially was based on. It was taking reggae and then 0:25:32.119 --> 0:25:36.520 making it into essentially electronic music with all sorts of effects. 0:25:36.800 --> 0:25:39.359 Yeah, man, I would love. I used to be scared 0:25:39.359 --> 0:25:43.840 of doing these music episodes because forty five to fifty 0:25:43.840 --> 0:25:48.080 minutes to encapsulate a genre is really really hard. But 0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:50.560 since we've done it a few times, I'm not as 0:25:50.960 --> 0:25:54.200 scared of it, and I would love to check new 0:25:54.240 --> 0:25:55.680 wave off the list. 0:25:56.119 --> 0:25:58.760 That's a good idea, we don't I almost said that's word. 0:25:58.800 --> 0:26:02.480 We don't even need to. We'll come up with an 0:26:02.560 --> 0:26:04.400 article for that. We can just go back and forth 0:26:04.440 --> 0:26:05.520 on it. How about that? 0:26:05.520 --> 0:26:07.679 That sounds great? I think you say ish instead of 0:26:07.720 --> 0:26:11.040 the S word is what people do? Yeah, that's like 0:26:11.040 --> 0:26:12.800 on the radio or something for sure. 0:26:13.040 --> 0:26:15.160 Because I think it's the sound that it makes when 0:26:15.200 --> 0:26:20.600 you scratch the record backwards at that moment. Is that it? 0:26:21.560 --> 0:26:23.119 Oh okay, I'm almost positive. 0:26:23.480 --> 0:26:27.800 All right, So we're getting to Bob Marley. But if 0:26:27.840 --> 0:26:29.800 we're talking about Lee Scratch Perry, he's one of the 0:26:29.840 --> 0:26:33.960 guys in the early sixties who was working with the 0:26:33.960 --> 0:26:37.200 Whalers very early on, and he, you know, Lee Scratch 0:26:37.240 --> 0:26:40.600 Perry went on to have an incredible long career eventually 0:26:40.640 --> 0:26:44.080 in hip hop and rock and like everything else. Yeah, 0:26:44.119 --> 0:26:46.000 but I guess we should talk about the Whalers a 0:26:46.040 --> 0:26:48.520 little bit. And if we're going to talk about the Whalers, 0:26:48.560 --> 0:26:50.280 we got to back up a little bit and talk 0:26:50.280 --> 0:26:52.520 about Joe Higgs. 0:26:53.119 --> 0:26:54.560 Did you know who Joe Higgs was? 0:26:55.200 --> 0:26:57.800 I did not, But now I'm like, I love seeing 0:26:57.840 --> 0:27:02.000 the ten like the early tendrils being tendrilling. 0:27:02.720 --> 0:27:06.040 Sure there might have been a Whaler's at one point, 0:27:06.119 --> 0:27:09.440 but they we probably wouldn't know of them because Joe 0:27:09.560 --> 0:27:13.399 Higgs taught them most of what they know about music. 0:27:13.800 --> 0:27:15.600 Yeah, I think I think I heard of him probably 0:27:15.600 --> 0:27:17.040 in the Bob Marley documentary. 0:27:17.040 --> 0:27:19.399 Now, I think that makes sense because you kind of 0:27:19.440 --> 0:27:22.640 couldn't talk about Bob Marley without talking about Joe Higgs. First, 0:27:22.640 --> 0:27:25.399 he taught not just Bob Marley how to sing and 0:27:25.440 --> 0:27:28.959 how to write songs and everything you need to know about, 0:27:29.240 --> 0:27:33.480 you know, making music. Yeah, he also taught Peter Tosh 0:27:33.520 --> 0:27:38.360 and Bunny Wayler at the same time, so he essentially 0:27:38.359 --> 0:27:42.440 taught the Whalers how to how to play music. So yeah, 0:27:42.560 --> 0:27:45.119 they might have been around because I know that Bunny 0:27:45.119 --> 0:27:49.200 Whayler and Bob Marley were essentially raised together from childhood 0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:52.760 as almost step brothers of sorts, and they met Peter 0:27:52.920 --> 0:27:57.000 Tosh as teenagers in Trench Town. So they probably would 0:27:57.040 --> 0:27:59.119 have formed a musical act, but they would have just 0:27:59.240 --> 0:28:01.960 sucked well. 0:28:02.000 --> 0:28:04.840 Joe Higgs was definitely the glue early on and the 0:28:04.880 --> 0:28:07.919 mentor to them. He had a big hit as a 0:28:07.960 --> 0:28:14.679 singer in nineteen sixty with Higgs and Wilson. It was 0:28:14.680 --> 0:28:18.280 called Manny Oh, and it was again if you listen 0:28:18.320 --> 0:28:19.760 to some of the stuff, you definitely hear like the 0:28:19.800 --> 0:28:22.520 American R and B sound coming through, Like some of 0:28:22.520 --> 0:28:24.840 this stuff sounds like James Brown at first, and then 0:28:25.000 --> 0:28:28.000 like that reggae beat kicks in. But it was one 0:28:28.040 --> 0:28:30.080 of the first Manyo was one of the first records 0:28:30.400 --> 0:28:33.560 ever pressed and released in Jamaica and sold fifty thousand 0:28:33.560 --> 0:28:37.000 copies and what was this nineteen sixty So that's a 0:28:37.040 --> 0:28:41.000 lot of records for back then. And he is, Yeah, 0:28:41.040 --> 0:28:44.400 he's the guy that like all these like teenagers basically 0:28:44.480 --> 0:28:48.560 were crowding around just like sponges to everything he knew. 0:28:49.240 --> 0:28:51.560 Yeah, that was something really cool about him. Like he 0:28:51.680 --> 0:28:54.400 was living in Trenchtown or at least Kingston at the 0:28:54.440 --> 0:28:57.960 time too, and he would teach other younger musicians, Like 0:28:58.320 --> 0:28:59.920 he took time to do that rather than just folk 0:29:00.080 --> 0:29:02.080 sing on his career and getting bigger and bigger, he 0:29:02.240 --> 0:29:05.200 like took his his talents and helped other people develop 0:29:05.280 --> 0:29:08.160 their own talents. Right, So hats off to Joe Higgs 0:29:08.160 --> 0:29:13.560 for sure, just from putting the The Whalers together. But 0:29:13.840 --> 0:29:16.520 you mentioned how the how like a lot of this stuff, 0:29:16.560 --> 0:29:19.880 this early reggae in rock SETI it's how you can 0:29:19.960 --> 0:29:22.680 really hear the R and B coming through, And that's 0:29:22.720 --> 0:29:27.000 true with those the early Whaler songs too. If you 0:29:27.040 --> 0:29:29.760 go listen to simmer Down, which came out in nineteen 0:29:29.800 --> 0:29:34.080 sixty three, great, I think they had four albums before 0:29:34.120 --> 0:29:37.920 they came out with their actual full reggae album in 0:29:38.000 --> 0:29:40.320 nineteen seventy two. I can't remember which one it's called, 0:29:40.920 --> 0:29:43.800 but it's it's you're just like you can hear Bob 0:29:43.840 --> 0:29:48.120 Marley's voice, but it's total R and B. It's it's strange. 0:29:48.280 --> 0:29:49.959 They dressed the part too, like when you look at 0:29:49.960 --> 0:29:52.040 the old like the early whalers that were wearing like 0:29:52.120 --> 0:29:55.120 the cool like sharkskin suits and stuff, and they were 0:29:55.120 --> 0:29:58.000 like styled out like the like the OJ's or something, 0:29:58.200 --> 0:29:58.880 right exactly. 0:29:59.000 --> 0:30:02.400 Yeah, so little jarring when all you know about Bob 0:30:02.440 --> 0:30:06.240 Marley is as a like a reggae icon, you know. Yeah, 0:30:06.280 --> 0:30:09.920 but yeah, they all met together in Trench Town where 0:30:09.960 --> 0:30:12.520 they all lived. And one thing I didn't realize is 0:30:12.560 --> 0:30:15.760 that Bob Marley's father was a white man. Did you 0:30:15.800 --> 0:30:16.160 know that? 0:30:16.960 --> 0:30:20.800 Yeah, his dad was His name was Norville Sinclair Marley, 0:30:21.640 --> 0:30:24.120 and he was Jamaican. He was a white Jamaican of 0:30:24.200 --> 0:30:27.760 English descent, and he was an army like a British 0:30:27.840 --> 0:30:32.040 Army veteran, but was a plantation overseer basically, and was 0:30:32.080 --> 0:30:37.000 in his sixties when he married Bob Marley's mother when 0:30:37.000 --> 0:30:40.120 she was eighteen. And so you know, you hear that 0:30:40.160 --> 0:30:43.040 and you think like a boy, right is, did the 0:30:43.080 --> 0:30:46.120 worst thing happen? And apparently that wasn't the case. I mean, 0:30:46.160 --> 0:30:48.080 there was a huge age difference, and I'm not saying 0:30:48.080 --> 0:30:51.440 that was a balance of power by any means, but 0:30:51.880 --> 0:30:56.800 everything I've read and seeing it was a consensual relationship, 0:30:56.960 --> 0:31:01.240 and that he provided financial support for a while to 0:31:01.360 --> 0:31:04.640 the family. But he was not like around much after 0:31:04.680 --> 0:31:07.240 Bob was born. He wasn't like a real father figure. 0:31:07.560 --> 0:31:11.320 Okay, gotcha, yeah, because I hear white, rural overseer and 0:31:11.360 --> 0:31:12.200 I'm like, oh. 0:31:12.160 --> 0:31:14.120 No, well yeah. 0:31:14.200 --> 0:31:16.440 But one of the other things that was a huge 0:31:16.440 --> 0:31:20.240 influence in Bob's life was his grandfather, his mom's father, 0:31:20.960 --> 0:31:24.720 who was a farmer and herbal healer, and so a 0:31:24.760 --> 0:31:28.640 lot of the kind of mystic qualities or at least 0:31:28.720 --> 0:31:32.400 interests of Bob Marley that just kind of he exudes 0:31:32.440 --> 0:31:35.600 in a way. You know, he definitely got from being 0:31:36.040 --> 0:31:38.040 his grandfather's grandson. 0:31:38.120 --> 0:31:42.120 Yeah, for sure. But as a result of that sort 0:31:42.120 --> 0:31:44.800 of displaced childhood, Marley didn't get to trench Town until 0:31:44.800 --> 0:31:48.400 he was a teenager, spent a lot of time out 0:31:48.400 --> 0:31:50.920 in the country in Kingston, hanging out with his granddad, 0:31:51.000 --> 0:31:54.720 like you said, and like you mentioned earlier, he and 0:31:55.040 --> 0:31:58.200 Bunny Whaler. It's the cutest thing. They were friends from 0:31:58.240 --> 0:32:00.360 the time they were like two and three years old. 0:32:01.320 --> 0:32:05.880 And when Bob's dad died, his mom moved in with 0:32:05.960 --> 0:32:11.560 Bunny Whaler's dad and they Yeah, they were raised like brothers. Yeah, 0:32:11.720 --> 0:32:12.360 super sweet. 0:32:12.480 --> 0:32:14.600 It is super sweet. And they met Peter Tosh in 0:32:14.600 --> 0:32:16.400 a gambling hall, I think when they were all like 0:32:16.480 --> 0:32:18.040 early early teens, right. 0:32:18.320 --> 0:32:18.880 Yeah. 0:32:18.960 --> 0:32:22.480 I don't know when Bob Marley met his wife, Rita, 0:32:23.560 --> 0:32:25.400 but I do know they were married by the time 0:32:25.480 --> 0:32:28.920 Holly Selassie came to visit Jamaica in nineteen sixty six, 0:32:29.000 --> 0:32:32.880 and it was her influence. She went and saw Holly Selassie. 0:32:32.880 --> 0:32:36.480 I think we said in the Holly Selassie episode that 0:32:36.600 --> 0:32:38.880 Bob Marley didn't go, but Rita Marley did and she 0:32:39.000 --> 0:32:44.480 came back like, guys, this is amazing. And she was 0:32:44.520 --> 0:32:48.560 the influence who connected Rastafarianism with reggae, at least as 0:32:48.560 --> 0:32:51.680 far as the Whalers go. And they were hugely influential 0:32:51.680 --> 0:32:52.880 in spreading that connection. 0:32:53.680 --> 0:32:57.120 Yeah for sure. And like you mentioned, It's Ketch a 0:32:57.160 --> 0:32:59.400 Fire in seventy two is considered kind of their first 0:32:59.440 --> 0:33:02.920 like full blown reggae album, and I think you're right. 0:33:02.960 --> 0:33:05.360 I think it was like their fifth record as a group. 0:33:05.480 --> 0:33:05.800 Mmm. 0:33:07.160 --> 0:33:09.240 I like that stuff too. Like I definitely had a 0:33:09.240 --> 0:33:12.360 Bob Marley FaZe in college, like literally every person on 0:33:12.400 --> 0:33:16.880 planet Earth for sure. But now, like I really really 0:33:16.920 --> 0:33:22.000 like that, those those early albums more than anything like that. 0:33:22.040 --> 0:33:25.680 I you know, my Legend cassette that I wore out 0:33:25.680 --> 0:33:27.520 of course in college like everyone else had. 0:33:27.840 --> 0:33:30.600 Well, wait a minute, was that. I feel like they 0:33:30.640 --> 0:33:33.080 came out with this a box set or something like 0:33:33.120 --> 0:33:36.000 that around that time, and that's what got everybody into 0:33:36.040 --> 0:33:37.720 Bob Marley again at that age. 0:33:39.120 --> 0:33:39.600 I don't know. 0:33:40.040 --> 0:33:42.000 Was it Legend? I thought for sure there was. 0:33:42.000 --> 0:33:45.040 Well Legend was the the sort of greatest hits for 0:33:45.120 --> 0:33:47.480 lack of a better word, Yeah, for sure. Yeah, Legend 0:33:47.520 --> 0:33:49.800 was the one that like everybody had because those were 0:33:49.800 --> 0:33:52.640 all like all the big, big songs, right. But it's 0:33:52.680 --> 0:33:54.440 it's I really like that early stuff. And if you 0:33:54.480 --> 0:33:57.360 go lesson, like I think Talking Blues is a compilation too, 0:33:57.880 --> 0:34:01.160 that's the one where the songs are interspersed with Bob 0:34:01.240 --> 0:34:04.520 like talking in the studio and stuff, and you know, 0:34:04.560 --> 0:34:08.640 it's great. It's such such a thick accent, like you 0:34:08.680 --> 0:34:11.919 can hardly understand him, right, Yeah, it's kind of great. 0:34:12.120 --> 0:34:14.640 Yeah, And even I was reading a quote from Shaba 0:34:14.760 --> 0:34:18.439 Ranks about how, like oh Man Saba Ranks like old 0:34:18.520 --> 0:34:21.440 dance hall guys need to lay off of the younger 0:34:21.520 --> 0:34:24.239 dance hall guys because they're doing their own thing. And 0:34:24.680 --> 0:34:26.719 the only reason I know that he said that was 0:34:26.719 --> 0:34:29.600 from the context of the article, like explaining that he 0:34:29.640 --> 0:34:31.600 said that because they had a block quote from him. 0:34:32.080 --> 0:34:35.479 And I'm like, I have no idea what Chabaanks just said. 0:34:35.600 --> 0:34:37.840 And I wasn't even listening. I was reading it. I 0:34:38.239 --> 0:34:40.799 could not make heads or tails out of it. 0:34:40.800 --> 0:34:42.680 It's one of my favorite. The Jamaican accent is one 0:34:42.680 --> 0:34:44.920 of my favorite accents on Planet Earth. I love it 0:34:44.960 --> 0:34:45.359 so much. 0:34:45.520 --> 0:34:47.560 It's definitely up there was Scottish for me too. 0:34:50.160 --> 0:34:53.200 You see the uh you ever seen the stuff on 0:34:53.239 --> 0:34:55.200 the Internet where people will be like, if you want 0:34:55.200 --> 0:34:59.200 to say this and this accent, say these words in 0:34:59.480 --> 0:35:00.440 American English. 0:35:01.080 --> 0:35:06.000 You taught me to say, Michael Caine, you say my cocaine. 0:35:05.719 --> 0:35:10.000 My cocaine, No, my cocaine. Yeah, that's what I just said. 0:35:11.560 --> 0:35:13.719 I saw one recently that was very funny, which was 0:35:13.800 --> 0:35:18.839 if you want to say, uh, spice girls in Scottish 0:35:19.680 --> 0:35:23.520 you say kind of have to quickly say space ghettos 0:35:24.120 --> 0:35:24.960 in English. 0:35:25.040 --> 0:35:25.560 Let's hear it. 0:35:26.320 --> 0:35:29.320 So, like, uh, ask me what I did over the weekend? 0:35:29.640 --> 0:35:31.000 What did you do over the weekend? Chuck? 0:35:32.000 --> 0:35:34.520 I went to a concier and then asked me who 0:35:34.600 --> 0:35:34.919 I saw? 0:35:35.280 --> 0:35:35.879 Who'd you see? 0:35:35.960 --> 0:35:38.400 Chuck and the space ghettos? 0:35:39.239 --> 0:35:41.960 Oh yeah, that was pretty dead on, pretty good. 0:35:42.040 --> 0:35:42.200 Huh. 0:35:42.280 --> 0:35:47.880 What did you have to drink? There was drinker? What'd 0:35:47.880 --> 0:35:48.240 you say? 0:35:48.640 --> 0:35:49.680 I'm a non drinker? 0:35:50.239 --> 0:35:51.640 You didn't drink any urn brew? 0:35:52.680 --> 0:35:53.239 What is that? 0:35:53.440 --> 0:35:56.239 Remember? That's like their drink. It's like some almost an 0:35:56.320 --> 0:35:57.880 orange weird. 0:35:58.120 --> 0:35:58.920 Oh I don't remember that. 0:35:59.160 --> 0:36:01.520 Oh yeah, it's like iron brew, but they spell it 0:36:01.560 --> 0:36:02.080 like earned. 0:36:02.280 --> 0:36:04.560 Oh I do remember it. Yeah I didn't not. 0:36:04.680 --> 0:36:08.279 Yeah, it's it's something specific. I liked it. But it 0:36:08.360 --> 0:36:12.879 was like you could easily drink too many at once. Yeah. 0:36:12.960 --> 0:36:17.080 I could see that. So I think that's where we 0:36:17.120 --> 0:36:17.560 were headed. 0:36:17.680 --> 0:36:21.919 Yeah. So yeah, what what you have when you put 0:36:21.960 --> 0:36:29.040 together reggae reggae music and Rastafarian perspectives and outlook in worldview? 0:36:29.120 --> 0:36:31.200 That's the word I was looking for. You have what's 0:36:31.239 --> 0:36:34.160 known as roots reggae and what most people think of 0:36:34.200 --> 0:36:36.839 as reggae, what they're thinking of as roots reggae. Bob 0:36:36.880 --> 0:36:40.719 Marley and the Whalers roots reggae from Catch a Fire. 0:36:40.520 --> 0:36:43.959 On Yeah for sure, and you know Catch a Fire 0:36:43.960 --> 0:36:46.120 with seventy two and like we said, that was their 0:36:46.120 --> 0:36:48.759 first big reggae album, but they actually the Whalers broke 0:36:48.840 --> 0:36:51.839 up two years later in seventy four. Yeah, and most 0:36:51.880 --> 0:36:54.959 of the like the college got into Bob Marley stuff 0:36:54.960 --> 0:36:57.719 and in the legend stuff is all post official, like 0:36:57.760 --> 0:37:01.680 the Whalers as the Whalers, and you know, all of 0:37:01.719 --> 0:37:04.280 them went on to do their own solo stuff. Obviously. 0:37:04.960 --> 0:37:08.120 I think Bob Marley had six albums after that until 0:37:08.440 --> 0:37:11.880 we'll get to his death in nineteen eighty one, but 0:37:12.080 --> 0:37:15.239 everyone did. Peter Tosh, who was He was the real 0:37:15.280 --> 0:37:18.279 deal man. He had some great albums. Legalize It in 0:37:18.320 --> 0:37:21.600 nineteen seventy six is a great one. Yeah, Equal Rights 0:37:21.600 --> 0:37:24.480 a year later, and then later on in the eighties 0:37:24.480 --> 0:37:28.560 he had a very sort of political album called Nuclear 0:37:28.600 --> 0:37:29.520 warth It was really good. 0:37:29.840 --> 0:37:32.799 Yeah. I had this Peter Tosh live show that I 0:37:32.920 --> 0:37:36.959 cannot find. Drives me crazy. It's like every other show 0:37:36.960 --> 0:37:39.000 from that tour exists except for that one, and I 0:37:39.040 --> 0:37:42.400 can't remember what city it was, and he had a 0:37:42.440 --> 0:37:44.959 tape or something, so yeah, it was like a burned CD. 0:37:45.360 --> 0:37:48.080 It was so good man, you could just listen to 0:37:48.120 --> 0:37:52.400 that on repeat, right, Yeah, But yes, his his lyrics 0:37:52.440 --> 0:37:55.880 were and just the whole vibe was way more militant 0:37:55.960 --> 0:37:59.719 compared to Bob Marley. Yeah, so I've seen it described 0:37:59.719 --> 0:38:02.080 as like when you put Marlee and Tosh together. And 0:38:02.080 --> 0:38:04.719 also Tosh, by the way, was the like far and 0:38:04.760 --> 0:38:07.839 away the most musically gifted of the Whalers. He could 0:38:07.880 --> 0:38:10.600 play all sorts of different stuff. He was also a 0:38:10.600 --> 0:38:14.280 good songwriter too. But when you put Marley's lyrics together 0:38:14.440 --> 0:38:17.160 and Peter Tosh's lyrics together into one show or one 0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:20.440 album or whatever, you had like a really rich, complex 0:38:21.480 --> 0:38:24.759 album like when with really cool themes in it, right, 0:38:26.120 --> 0:38:29.400 and I saw it. There's a reggae archivist, which is 0:38:29.520 --> 0:38:31.920 I'm not sure what you would go study in school 0:38:32.000 --> 0:38:35.640 to become that. A guy named Roger Stephens, and he's 0:38:35.840 --> 0:38:40.640 he likened Marley to Martin Luther King Junior and Tosh 0:38:40.719 --> 0:38:43.000 to Malcolm X, and like they kind of had those 0:38:43.440 --> 0:38:46.360 they approached things from those viewpoints. So Marley made the 0:38:46.360 --> 0:38:52.239 whalers universally palatable, and Peter Tosh inserted like that that 0:38:52.360 --> 0:38:56.719 kind of militant political bent that is also like a 0:38:56.719 --> 0:38:57.839 big part of reggae. Two. 0:38:58.400 --> 0:39:00.680 Yeah, and I think a lot of the ability for 0:39:00.920 --> 0:39:03.200 you know, at least so far as Jamaican's were concerned. 0:39:03.640 --> 0:39:06.160 Yeah, I saw also that, like apparently around the world 0:39:06.200 --> 0:39:08.799 he's respected at least as much, if not more than 0:39:08.840 --> 0:39:11.719 he is in Jamaica because he's like known to walk 0:39:11.760 --> 0:39:14.759 the walk and yeah, like he was beaten nearly to 0:39:14.800 --> 0:39:18.880 death by the police several times. Legalize it was banned 0:39:18.960 --> 0:39:22.000 in Jamaica, so he took out a newspaper ad and 0:39:22.160 --> 0:39:25.040 tended the lyrics in it like he was a He 0:39:25.160 --> 0:39:26.320 was a cool dude for sure. 0:39:26.840 --> 0:39:29.560 Yeah. All right, so I think we should take another 0:39:29.600 --> 0:39:32.680 break and we will come back and talk a little 0:39:32.680 --> 0:39:35.319 bit about a guy named Jimmy Cliff right after this. 0:40:05.480 --> 0:40:09.680 All right, we're back, take it away, Josh. 0:40:08.920 --> 0:40:12.760 Chuck, have you ever heard a song by Jimmy Cliff? 0:40:15.040 --> 0:40:19.719 Yeah, I like Jimmy Cliff. Hurricane Hattie was his first 0:40:19.760 --> 0:40:21.839 big hit in nineteen sixty two. He was just a kid. 0:40:21.880 --> 0:40:25.080 He's like eighteen years old, and he moved to London 0:40:25.800 --> 0:40:28.160 and he got a lot more reggae after he moved 0:40:28.200 --> 0:40:32.200 to London, and he was a big sort of proselytizer 0:40:32.280 --> 0:40:34.200 for reggae, kind of took it around the world in 0:40:34.200 --> 0:40:34.759 a lot of ways. 0:40:34.880 --> 0:40:35.200 Yeah. 0:40:35.640 --> 0:40:38.600 And one way he did so was in a movie 0:40:38.640 --> 0:40:40.520 which I have not seen. I don't know. It was 0:40:40.520 --> 0:40:43.120 one that's always been on my list. But The Harder 0:40:43.160 --> 0:40:46.560 They Come in nineteen seventy two is definitely a cult classic, 0:40:46.719 --> 0:40:50.200 and is was a big, big, not a huge like 0:40:50.280 --> 0:40:53.920 American hit, but on the movie scene, like the film Lovers, 0:40:53.920 --> 0:40:54.200 it was. 0:40:54.440 --> 0:40:59.280 Yeah. It's also widely considered one of the best soundtracks too, Yeah, 0:40:59.320 --> 0:41:02.400 because it's a out reggae and the reggae music industry 0:41:02.440 --> 0:41:05.919 and Kingston and the way things are and Kingston and 0:41:06.080 --> 0:41:09.120 it's a he's like Jimmy Cliff plays kind of a 0:41:09.120 --> 0:41:13.399 bandit to an extent. Yeah, I haven't seen it either, 0:41:13.400 --> 0:41:16.160 but it's I just know it's, like you said, a 0:41:16.200 --> 0:41:20.839 cult classic, and that as much as you know, I 0:41:20.840 --> 0:41:25.560 think simultaneous to Bob Marley touring the world and the 0:41:25.560 --> 0:41:30.120 Whalers like that movie coming out and being seen outside 0:41:30.120 --> 0:41:33.280 of Jamaica, like really helped spread the concept of reggae 0:41:33.360 --> 0:41:34.360 and what it was all about. 0:41:34.920 --> 0:41:37.480 Yeah. I mean, when you've got Ciskel and Ebert reviewing 0:41:37.800 --> 0:41:40.359 the Harder they come on their TV show later, it's 0:41:40.400 --> 0:41:42.120 spreading fairly mainstream, you know. 0:41:42.239 --> 0:41:44.040 Two thumbs up if I'm not mistaken. 0:41:45.280 --> 0:41:47.239 Well, I don't know. I know Ebert gave it a 0:41:47.280 --> 0:41:49.080 thumbs up, but I don't know about Ciskel. We'll have 0:41:49.160 --> 0:41:49.799 to go back and Look. 0:41:50.040 --> 0:41:51.880 I know I've told you this before, but do you 0:41:51.960 --> 0:41:57.240 know that Gene Siskel's stated favorite movie was Saturday Night Fever. Yeah, 0:41:57.280 --> 0:42:00.680 and he owned the white suit that Travolta warrens Night Fever. 0:42:01.080 --> 0:42:03.440 Yeah, that was in our disco episode. 0:42:03.640 --> 0:42:05.720 Okay, but it's just such a great fact. 0:42:06.520 --> 0:42:08.919 Yeah. And you know what, since that episode, I've had 0:42:09.680 --> 0:42:13.160 as a copy pasted from the original New York Times 0:42:13.239 --> 0:42:17.360 article that inspired Saturday Night Fever. It's been sitting on 0:42:17.400 --> 0:42:21.240 my desktop on my computer like ten years unread. 0:42:21.520 --> 0:42:25.120 Oh it's good. It's just especially if you go into 0:42:25.160 --> 0:42:28.840 it knowing it's just one big lie, it's actually even better. 0:42:29.320 --> 0:42:31.040 Oh was it? I don't I don't remember that, but 0:42:31.200 --> 0:42:31.720 oh I'm. 0:42:31.520 --> 0:42:34.920 Sorry, which I could take that back, I thought you did. 0:42:35.400 --> 0:42:39.000 No, that's sor right. I'm sorry, I'll still read it. Okay, 0:42:39.040 --> 0:42:40.640 ten years from now, I'll forget. 0:42:40.440 --> 0:42:43.759 Okay, cool, but you'll never forget that Gene Siskel fact. 0:42:43.800 --> 0:42:45.480 I like to bust out every few years. 0:42:45.760 --> 0:42:48.719 That's right. So we should talk a little bit more 0:42:48.800 --> 0:42:52.520 about I guess we talked a little bit about the 0:42:52.600 --> 0:42:57.880 violence that was going on when reggae was born in Kingston, 0:42:58.520 --> 0:43:02.160 but over the years has just sort of been intertwined 0:43:02.200 --> 0:43:06.760 with a lot of political violence and violent clashes, especially 0:43:06.840 --> 0:43:10.000 within the country politically, and you know, they were always 0:43:10.040 --> 0:43:11.919 in the middle of it, and Bob Marley was usually 0:43:11.960 --> 0:43:13.800 in the middle of it trying to bring people together. 0:43:14.640 --> 0:43:16.759 In nineteen seventy six, they were in the middle of 0:43:16.760 --> 0:43:20.000 a clash between the People's National Party, which was the 0:43:20.080 --> 0:43:24.479 ruling party at the time, and their opponents, and Bob 0:43:24.520 --> 0:43:28.759 Marley went to play an anti violence concert and some 0:43:28.800 --> 0:43:32.000 of the people dragged them on that for like, say no, 0:43:32.239 --> 0:43:34.879 like you're siding with the P and P and Prime 0:43:34.880 --> 0:43:38.080 Minister Michael Manley just by even playing this event. So 0:43:38.239 --> 0:43:40.680 I think he'd never I think there was a lot 0:43:40.680 --> 0:43:44.120 of frustration there, judging from the documentary about like trying 0:43:44.160 --> 0:43:47.160 to do the right thing by bringing people together, but 0:43:47.280 --> 0:43:49.319 some people on the opposition being like, you can't even 0:43:49.360 --> 0:43:50.360 like talk to the other side. 0:43:51.160 --> 0:43:54.640 Yeah, and the P and P, the ruling party, they 0:43:54.640 --> 0:43:58.200 were left wing. It was a socialist experiment, I essentially saw. 0:43:58.800 --> 0:44:01.600 And one reason a lot of people point to why 0:44:01.640 --> 0:44:04.279 there was so much unrest and violent clashes and all 0:44:04.360 --> 0:44:07.200 that was because the CIA was running around trying to 0:44:07.239 --> 0:44:09.759 destabilize the country because it was moving to the left 0:44:09.840 --> 0:44:14.120 rather than the right. That concert, you mentioned that that 0:44:14.200 --> 0:44:18.680 Bob Marley was frustrated about it, seeming like he was 0:44:18.800 --> 0:44:22.600 kind of like a handmaiden or whatever to the unpopular 0:44:22.760 --> 0:44:27.040 prime minister. Two days before he was shot, he was shot, 0:44:27.120 --> 0:44:29.600 Rita was shot, two other people were shot in his home, 0:44:30.239 --> 0:44:33.120 and after being shot in the chest and the shoulder, 0:44:33.480 --> 0:44:35.440 he still went on and played that show. 0:44:36.320 --> 0:44:40.640 Yeah, it was incredible. Two years after that, in nineteen 0:44:40.719 --> 0:44:45.000 seventy eight, he had the very famous One Love Concert 0:44:45.080 --> 0:44:48.080 because there was still that divided political climate and once 0:44:48.120 --> 0:44:50.360 again Bob Marley's there in the middle trying to make peace, 0:44:50.840 --> 0:44:53.399 and he brought the two guys together. He brought Prime 0:44:53.440 --> 0:44:57.920 Minister Manly together with Edward I think Siga of the 0:44:58.000 --> 0:45:01.160 Jamaican Labor Party, and that was a huge, huge deal. 0:45:01.480 --> 0:45:04.399 Yeah, there's a very famous picture of them holding hands 0:45:04.400 --> 0:45:06.160 because Bob Marley's making them. 0:45:06.400 --> 0:45:07.560 Yeah, exactly. 0:45:08.280 --> 0:45:14.000 So Marley actually died of a cancerous growth that started 0:45:14.040 --> 0:45:16.120 on his toe that he didn't get looked at because 0:45:16.120 --> 0:45:18.279 he thought it was an old soccer injury and he 0:45:18.360 --> 0:45:23.280 actually collapsed in Central Park after a pretty great show 0:45:23.360 --> 0:45:24.720 in Madison Square Garden. 0:45:25.120 --> 0:45:28.120 Yeah, he opened up for the Commodores and apparently blew 0:45:28.160 --> 0:45:31.120 the Commodores off the stage. And the real sad thing 0:45:31.200 --> 0:45:34.759 about his death is that from everything I saw was 0:45:34.800 --> 0:45:38.400 that that was he probably could have been very successfully 0:45:38.400 --> 0:45:42.799 treated for cancer he had he gotten it looked at 0:45:42.880 --> 0:45:43.399 earlier on. 0:45:44.719 --> 0:45:46.960 Yeah, I saw the survival rate for black men from 0:45:46.960 --> 0:45:50.080 that particular type of cancers like seventy percent. So yeah, 0:45:50.160 --> 0:45:52.719 that sucks. But he thought it was a soccer injury. 0:45:52.880 --> 0:45:55.319 I think I'm trying to I mean, is that what 0:45:55.360 --> 0:45:55.760 you said. 0:45:56.360 --> 0:45:58.400 Yeah, I don't remember. 0:45:58.440 --> 0:46:00.200 For some reason, I thought it had something to do 0:46:00.280 --> 0:46:04.800 with religion, but maybe I'm just not remembering right about 0:46:04.800 --> 0:46:05.480 that part. 0:46:05.719 --> 0:46:07.760 Maybe he did so well in the game he considered 0:46:07.760 --> 0:46:09.759 it a religious experience. 0:46:09.800 --> 0:46:11.040 There might have been a little bit of both. 0:46:12.200 --> 0:46:16.120 So Bob Marley was shot, but he didn't die from that. 0:46:16.200 --> 0:46:20.080 He died from natural causes. Peter Tosh and two years 0:46:20.120 --> 0:46:23.480 after Peter Tosh King Tubby were both murdered by gunman. 0:46:23.760 --> 0:46:28.160 That's how their lives ended. That's I mean, like there's nowadays, 0:46:28.160 --> 0:46:31.480 there's a lot of reggae artists who you know, come 0:46:31.480 --> 0:46:35.160 along over the years. This is not like there was 0:46:35.200 --> 0:46:40.200 still rather limited reggae artists, so limited number. So two yeah, 0:46:40.280 --> 0:46:45.160 major reggae stars being murdered is actually pretty significant. 0:46:44.680 --> 0:46:47.480 Oh for sure. Peter Tosh's murder was brutal, Like he 0:46:47.560 --> 0:46:50.560 had these three guys that busted in basically held him 0:46:50.600 --> 0:46:53.560 hostage in his house and tortured him trying to get 0:46:53.600 --> 0:46:56.560 money from him. And as people like friends would come 0:46:56.600 --> 0:46:59.359 by the house just through the course of the day, 0:46:59.400 --> 0:47:02.960 they would be taken in and held hostage and eventually 0:47:03.080 --> 0:47:05.360 like just that was just a big, like kind of 0:47:05.360 --> 0:47:07.200 crazy shootout and he was shot in the head. It 0:47:07.280 --> 0:47:07.800 was brutal. 0:47:08.520 --> 0:47:11.080 Yeah. The worst thing about that, aside from the fact 0:47:11.080 --> 0:47:14.640 that he was murdered. His murderer was a guy named 0:47:14.680 --> 0:47:18.120 Dennis Loban, Leppo was what people called him, and he 0:47:18.200 --> 0:47:20.520 knew that Peter Tosh had money because he had gotten 0:47:20.560 --> 0:47:22.760 out of prison and Peter Tosh gave him a place 0:47:22.800 --> 0:47:25.520 to stay, fed him, took care of him to help 0:47:25.600 --> 0:47:28.320 him get back on his feet. And that's how Leppo 0:47:28.440 --> 0:47:30.879 Loban repaid him by murdering him because he was trying 0:47:30.920 --> 0:47:32.320 to rob him for more money. 0:47:32.480 --> 0:47:33.480 Yeah. Pretty brutal. 0:47:34.120 --> 0:47:36.840 Yeah, And then King Tubby was murdered in what they 0:47:36.880 --> 0:47:39.520 think was a botched robbery in nineteen eighty nine. 0:47:39.640 --> 0:47:42.120 Well that's essentially what this was with Tosh too, because 0:47:42.120 --> 0:47:43.640 the whole time they were just trying to get money 0:47:43.680 --> 0:47:45.200 that he said he didn't have at the house. 0:47:45.680 --> 0:47:47.759 Yeah, I got so all right. 0:47:47.800 --> 0:47:52.680 So we mentioned London earlier. London is probably like the 0:47:52.680 --> 0:47:54.720 second city of reggae after Kingston. 0:47:55.440 --> 0:47:56.760 It's the Chicago of reggae. 0:47:56.880 --> 0:48:03.120 Yeah, because of what's called the win Rush generation, which 0:48:03.200 --> 0:48:08.240 is when Caribbean immigrants post World War Two from British 0:48:08.239 --> 0:48:11.640 colonies and former colonies they started, you know, moving elsewhere 0:48:11.640 --> 0:48:14.040 and a lot of them arrived in the UK and 0:48:14.320 --> 0:48:17.040 that came over you know, their their music and their 0:48:17.120 --> 0:48:19.959 their culture and their food and everything came over. And 0:48:20.480 --> 0:48:22.360 that happened in London and there were all of a 0:48:22.360 --> 0:48:26.760 sudden a bunch of well not it sort of depends 0:48:26.840 --> 0:48:31.240 like sometimes white London acts, sometimes Londoners that were black, 0:48:31.480 --> 0:48:34.040 depending on the band. But like I mentioned the Police 0:48:34.080 --> 0:48:36.799 and the Specials in Madness, obviously they were in ub 0:48:36.960 --> 0:48:40.360 forty and you know those those ended up being like 0:48:40.400 --> 0:48:42.719 really big bands. But they also influenced like the punk 0:48:42.719 --> 0:48:44.280 scene with the Clash and the sex Pistols. 0:48:44.320 --> 0:48:47.520 Even Yeah, Johnny Rotten was heavily influenced. He went on 0:48:47.600 --> 0:48:51.800 to found Public Image Limited and thanks to him Johnny 0:48:51.880 --> 0:48:55.480 Rotten liking reggae and joh Wobble the bassist really liking 0:48:55.560 --> 0:49:00.479 dub regae. Yeah, pil had a certain reggae, yeah, dub 0:49:00.520 --> 0:49:03.880 reggae thing to it going on. So hats off to 0:49:04.320 --> 0:49:06.600 reggae for giving us Public Image Limited. 0:49:07.560 --> 0:49:10.200 And you know it wasn't just London, Like you know, 0:49:10.239 --> 0:49:12.120 we can't get into all this like super in a 0:49:12.120 --> 0:49:15.399 super detailed way, but it it. You know, reggae went 0:49:15.440 --> 0:49:20.000 across Africa. There were like native born South African artists 0:49:20.000 --> 0:49:22.880 that like became reggae stars. I know, the Ivory Coast 0:49:23.040 --> 0:49:26.520 really got into the Rastafari culture for a while. 0:49:28.160 --> 0:49:31.000 Yeah, no for sure, and some some of them the 0:49:31.280 --> 0:49:34.880 taking up that kind of political causes and calls for revolution. 0:49:35.920 --> 0:49:39.720 Some have actually happened to become political leaders in their country, 0:49:39.760 --> 0:49:45.000 like Bobbie Weene of Uganda or Shatawale in Ghana. Like 0:49:45.080 --> 0:49:48.960 these are reggae artists who actually have talked the talk 0:49:49.040 --> 0:49:52.239 and they're now political, whether they like it or not. 0:49:52.640 --> 0:49:57.200 Yeah, New Zealand, we're looking at you, because who knew. 0:49:57.280 --> 0:50:01.040 I didn't know. In nineteen seventy nine, Bob Marley played 0:50:01.040 --> 0:50:04.200 in Auckland and it kind of he kind of caught 0:50:04.200 --> 0:50:07.120 a fire there and Maori musicians sort of adopted reggae 0:50:07.200 --> 0:50:09.399 for a while, and you know, they brought their own 0:50:09.440 --> 0:50:11.319 thing like it you know, always happens when you sort 0:50:11.320 --> 0:50:13.960 of adopted music. They brought their own vocal harmonies and stuff. 0:50:14.640 --> 0:50:19.280 But they also, like everywhere reggae went that it caught fire. 0:50:19.320 --> 0:50:22.120 I think people except in college dorms in the eighties 0:50:22.160 --> 0:50:24.960 and nineties in the United States, there was a big 0:50:25.080 --> 0:50:29.759 like identification with the politics, sort of the bottom up 0:50:29.760 --> 0:50:30.680 politics of it all. 0:50:31.520 --> 0:50:34.280 Yeah, yeah, that was kind of lost on the dorm crowd, 0:50:34.360 --> 0:50:34.640 was it. 0:50:34.880 --> 0:50:36.680 I mean, I think we all like to think we 0:50:36.680 --> 0:50:39.920 were down with the movement, but we just wanted the 0:50:39.920 --> 0:50:40.919 bumper stickers. 0:50:41.960 --> 0:50:44.840 But I'm sure it definitely helped shape our world views. 0:50:45.080 --> 0:50:47.640 Yeah, yeah, I think it opened us up to other things. 0:50:47.640 --> 0:50:48.000 For sure. 0:50:48.840 --> 0:50:50.840 There are two other things that you can draw a 0:50:50.880 --> 0:50:54.000 direct line to from reggae to current music. One is 0:50:54.080 --> 0:50:56.560 hip hop, like you said, and that line seems to 0:50:56.600 --> 0:51:01.160 go through DJ cool Hurt. It was definitely prominently featured 0:51:01.160 --> 0:51:04.200 in our hip hop episode because he was actually born 0:51:04.840 --> 0:51:08.040 in Kingston, I think, and ended up in the Bronx, 0:51:08.520 --> 0:51:10.840 and it just so happened that within a few years 0:51:10.840 --> 0:51:13.600 of DJ Coole Hirk moving to the Bronx, hip hop 0:51:13.719 --> 0:51:16.000 came up in New York out of nowhere, so they 0:51:16.000 --> 0:51:16.920 think that it was him. 0:51:17.239 --> 0:51:19.440 Yeah, I mean he didn't come to the Bronxi he 0:51:19.560 --> 0:51:21.560 was twelve, so he had a lot of years in 0:51:21.640 --> 0:51:26.160 Jamaica to bring that influence. And yeah, like I said 0:51:26.200 --> 0:51:29.279 that toasting, Jamaican toasting tradition came right along with them. 0:51:29.800 --> 0:51:32.320 Yeah, and remember you talked about how Dub would strip 0:51:32.360 --> 0:51:35.040 the vocals out of music so you had instrumental music. 0:51:36.120 --> 0:51:39.080 He would do that with two turntables and a microphone 0:51:39.080 --> 0:51:40.000 as Beck said. 0:51:40.320 --> 0:51:44.040 That's right. Other places Panama, like Central and South America 0:51:44.480 --> 0:51:48.840 had a big thing they called reggae. On Espanol and 0:51:49.560 --> 0:51:54.400 Puerto Rico, they had like an underground Spanish language like 0:51:54.480 --> 0:51:58.759 reggae rap called reggatson that came along, and like you 0:51:58.800 --> 0:52:00.920 can draw a direct line from that to somebody like 0:52:00.920 --> 0:52:01.520 Bad Bunny. 0:52:02.560 --> 0:52:06.080 Yeah, I think it's even like that. They call Bad 0:52:06.120 --> 0:52:07.399 Bunnies music reggae tin. 0:52:07.560 --> 0:52:08.080 Yeah, I think so. 0:52:09.120 --> 0:52:10.040 Yeah. 0:52:10.600 --> 0:52:12.760 That super Bowl performance was so fun. 0:52:13.360 --> 0:52:15.840 Yeah, he really did set the world on fire. 0:52:16.040 --> 0:52:17.799 Oh that was great. It was a lot of fun. 0:52:18.400 --> 0:52:22.560 Yeah, like he prefigured Earling Holland. He was like the 0:52:22.640 --> 0:52:30.600 Earling Holland of super Bowl halftime shows. So, Chuck, favorite 0:52:30.640 --> 0:52:31.759 reggae band of all time? 0:52:33.560 --> 0:52:35.280 I mean early Whalers for sure. 0:52:35.719 --> 0:52:40.200 Okay, I'm going with Burning Spear. Oh yeah, Chuck. Did 0:52:40.200 --> 0:52:42.880 you like the nineties SKA Revival? Uh? 0:52:43.000 --> 0:52:48.600 Nah, I wasn't into that me either, My bag, I got. 0:52:48.480 --> 0:52:51.680 Us to listener mail. Now I managed to unlock it 0:52:51.760 --> 0:52:52.160 for us. 0:52:52.200 --> 0:52:53.279 Oh okay, are we there? 0:52:54.000 --> 0:52:56.680 Yeah, because back in two thousand and eight, one of 0:52:56.719 --> 0:53:00.960 us predicted that we would bag on the the nineties 0:53:01.280 --> 0:53:03.760 mid nineties Sky revived or in one of our episodes, 0:53:03.760 --> 0:53:05.160 and that would trigger listener real. 0:53:08.719 --> 0:53:10.400 All right, we got a short one here because this 0:53:10.719 --> 0:53:13.000 episode is a little longer. It's just a quick correction 0:53:13.160 --> 0:53:15.759 from Dave in California. He said, hey, guys, in the 0:53:15.800 --> 0:53:23.120 eleanor Roosevelt episode. Instead of in flagrante delicto, which is 0:53:23.160 --> 0:53:27.520 the common term Josh coined, coined the term in flagrante, 0:53:27.760 --> 0:53:33.720 in flagrante delicado, sure, which could perhaps mean gently a fire, 0:53:34.360 --> 0:53:38.040 which Dave says is actually not entirely inappropriate. 0:53:38.080 --> 0:53:41.440 Perhaps, Right, that's what I It's kind of what I thought. 0:53:41.480 --> 0:53:45.120 I didn't realize it. It was delecto. What does delecto mean? Like, 0:53:46.600 --> 0:53:51.040 I don't know on fire? Yeah, what does delecto mean? 0:53:51.120 --> 0:53:53.879 Chuck, I don't know delcto. Well, I think it means 0:53:53.880 --> 0:53:56.319 caught in the act, which is what that means as 0:53:56.360 --> 0:53:56.840 a phrase. 0:53:57.719 --> 0:54:04.960 Oh okay, no, I see that. It's yeah, caught red handed. Yeah, 0:54:05.040 --> 0:54:07.680 all right, but I'm fine, but I like mine better. 0:54:07.840 --> 0:54:09.360 Well, I think a stuff you should know, a T 0:54:09.520 --> 0:54:11.960 shirt should clearly be in flagrante delicado. 0:54:12.560 --> 0:54:16.600 Yeah, the gentle fire. Yeah, it's off touch, laid down 0:54:16.680 --> 0:54:21.279 by the gentle fire with me? Baby, you got anything else. 0:54:21.360 --> 0:54:23.560 I got nothing else. I hope we did reggae justice. 0:54:24.600 --> 0:54:27.120 Oh well, I think we did. I hope so too. 0:54:27.400 --> 0:54:27.640 Yeah. 0:54:27.719 --> 0:54:31.120 I feel like every time I reassure you, I'm setting 0:54:31.160 --> 0:54:32.960 us up for people to be like you guys suck. 0:54:33.040 --> 0:54:35.880 You did a terrible job. So I'm just gonna say, 0:54:36.120 --> 0:54:37.680 I hope so too. How about that? 0:54:37.840 --> 0:54:40.520 Yeah? Actually, what usually happens is we get like, hey, guys, 0:54:40.560 --> 0:54:42.239 did a pretty good job. But also there's this, this 0:54:42.320 --> 0:54:43.839 and this, which is exactly what we want. 0:54:44.360 --> 0:54:47.160 Yes, but usually it's from experts and we love that too. 0:54:47.360 --> 0:54:47.840 That's true. 0:54:48.680 --> 0:54:50.279 All right. Well, if you want to get in touch 0:54:50.280 --> 0:54:54.200 with us, like Dave you said, yeah, Dave, Well, you 0:54:54.239 --> 0:54:56.799 can email us just like Dave did. Send it off 0:54:56.840 --> 0:55:02.839 to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you Should 0:55:02.880 --> 0:55:04.520 Know is a production of iHeartRadio. 0:55:05.000 --> 0:55:08.200 For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 0:55:08.400 --> 0:55:11.280 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.