1 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name 2 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb. 3 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 2: And I am Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. Going into 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 2: the Old Vault for an episode of the show from 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 2: last year. This one originally published March twenty first, twenty 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 2: twenty three, and it's part three of our series called 7 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 2: The Washing of the Waters. 8 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: Enjoy Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of iHeartRadio. Hey, 9 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is 10 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 1: Robert Lamb. 11 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 2: And I'm Joe McCormick, and we're back with part three 12 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 2: of our series on the Healing Waters, where we have 13 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 2: been focusing on beliefs held by many people throughout history 14 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 2: that you could heal various diseases by bathing, by either 15 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 2: immersing yourself in the waters of say warm or hot 16 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: mineral spring, or sometimes maybe by drinking those waters. Also, 17 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 2: we talked about the medicinal theories on which some of 18 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 2: these practices were based, especially in the ancient world, such 19 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 2: as the ancient Greek and Roman beliefs in humoral theory. Also, 20 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 2: in the last episode we talked there was a very 21 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 2: interesting digression you had rob about supposed healing springs that 22 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 2: have creatures living in them, such as little blood worms 23 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 2: or fish trapped in the hot waters. 24 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, as luck would have it. Here in Atlanta, we 25 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 1: have a science festival here as well, the Atlanta Science Festival, 26 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: And a very cold morning over the weekend, my family 27 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: went to a talk on carnivorous plants, about some of 28 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: the various carnivorous plants that are found internally in the 29 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: southeastern United States. And at the end of it, the 30 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: children present got to feed the carnivorous plants and they 31 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: were feeding them bloodworms. So wow, it comes around. I 32 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I know these guys. I was just 33 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: talking about these guys. These would be, of course, the 34 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: larval forms of the little flies, rather than the proper 35 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: worms that we also discussed. 36 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 2: But there was no eye squirting, no squirting of the 37 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 2: worms in the eyes. 38 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: Now, nobody was putting these in their eyeballs. 39 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 2: Good good, Well, today I wanted to take a look 40 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 2: actually at the paper that first got me interested in 41 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 2: this subject, in the subject of beliefs about the healing 42 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 2: powers of balneotherapy or immersion in the water. And this 43 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 2: is a medical history paper concerning the spa at Bath Bath, 44 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 2: a location in southwest England in Somerset that has been 45 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 2: used as a spa going way back back back into 46 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 2: at least as far back as Roman times when it 47 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 2: was the spa of Minerva Sulas. Remember in the previous 48 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 2: episode we talked about how often these these spa facilities 49 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 2: built out by the Romans would kind of be under 50 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 2: the heading of a sort of composite god made of 51 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 2: like a Roman god like Minerve, and then the local 52 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: deity in this case it would be some kind of 53 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 2: Celtic goddess named Sulus. So these are merged together. Minervasulus 54 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 2: rules over the waters of Bath, And yeah, going way back, 55 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 2: people thought that various illnesses could be healed there. I 56 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 2: wanted to talk about a paper making a case that 57 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 2: maybe for one particular disease there actually is a mechanical 58 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 2: healing property at the spring. 59 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: Oh fascinating. You know, I visited Bath many years ago, 60 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: like fifteen plus years ago, and I believe my wife 61 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: and I went as is kind of like a day 62 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: trip out of London by train and then we took 63 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: one of those bus tours of the city and then 64 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: walked around a bit. But it was really beautiful and 65 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: I remember that you had this great layered feeling of 66 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: history there, like the topography of the city, and like 67 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: the physical building layers of the city revealed, like the 68 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: deep time of the area. I was fascinating totally. 69 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 2: I would love to go myself, maybe not to get 70 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 2: in the water, but at least to have a look around. 71 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't remember. I mean the tours we were on, 72 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: the tours we could afford at the time. It definitely 73 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: did not have any invitations to get in the water, 74 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: just to like buy coffee mug at the end, that 75 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: sort of thing. 76 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 2: So the paper I want to talk about is called 77 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 2: a Trial of the Bath Waters the Treatment of Lead 78 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 2: Poisoning by an author named Audrey Haywood in the journal 79 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:28,119 Speaker 2: Medical History, published back in nineteen ninety and this paper 80 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 2: concerns medical clinical research carried out at what was called 81 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 2: the Bath General Hospital, which opened in seventeen forty one. 82 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 2: Now at the time, one of the major missions of 83 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 2: this hospital facility was to mount what the authors of 84 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 2: this study called a trial of the waters, which was 85 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 2: an attempt to record data to test and show whether 86 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 2: the spa therapy practiced in the pools of Bath, whether 87 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 2: therapy was actually effective against disease now, as we've talked about, 88 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,119 Speaker 2: people since antiquity have believed all kinds of different things 89 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 2: that medical complaints could be cured by soaking in spas, 90 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 2: soaking or bathing in warm mineral springs, sometimes drinking the 91 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 2: water as well. If you haven't heard the last episode yet, 92 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 2: you should go check that out first. We talked about 93 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 2: plenty of examples in there. But the question is why 94 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 2: did people think that the waters of the spas were 95 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 2: curing their diseases. In modern times, it has been commonly 96 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 2: assumed that this was entirely due to the placebo effect. 97 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 2: To the placebo effect is a beneficial or healing effect 98 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 2: caused by a treatment that has no actual direct mechanism 99 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 2: on the condition itself, and thus, and thus the apparent 100 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 2: healing or improvement is believed to be caused by the 101 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 2: patient's belief that they are being treated or by their 102 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 2: expectation of improvement. 103 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: And we've talked about the cebo effect plenty of times 104 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 1: on the show is and has a measurable effect. It 105 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: is a real thing. And so if nothing else is 106 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: doing anything for you, at least the blacebo effect maybe 107 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: kicking in. 108 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,119 Speaker 2: Right, So that could be an explanation for why people 109 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 2: maybe would go soak in the water and think, oh my, 110 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 2: whatever got better. 111 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: Now. 112 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 2: In the ancient world, there were mechanistic theories of why 113 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 2: the spa would cure you. One example among many is 114 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 2: again humoral theory, the theory that, oh, your fluids are 115 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 2: out of balance. You know, maybe you've got too much 116 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 2: blood or too much yellow bile, not enough phlim or something, 117 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 2: and you could deal with these imbalances by calibrating the 118 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 2: two sort of like slider knobs on your body, and 119 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 2: those knobs were wet and dry and hot and cold 120 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 2: because wet, dry, hot, and cold were each correlated with 121 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 2: one of the humors. 122 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 3: So like, oh, I don't have it in front of 123 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 3: me now, but I think maybe like blood was like 124 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 3: hot and wet or something, or maybe cool and wet. 125 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:58,919 Speaker 3: I don't know anyway, So you know, if you have 126 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 3: too much of one of those things, you adjust the 127 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 3: hotness or coldness or dryness or wetness of the body 128 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 3: in order to get yourself back in balance. Now we 129 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 3: know today that this is not actually how the body works. 130 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 3: This is an obsolete theory. It does not accurately describe 131 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 3: where disease comes from. But having the belief in it 132 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 3: may have led again to placebo effect. People are thinking 133 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 3: that they've got a correct way of addressing disease, so 134 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 3: they're at least having an expectation of improvement. 135 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like I'm not doing nothing. I'm doing something. 136 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: I'm following the advice or the you know, or I'm 137 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: being treated by an expert in their field, and you know, 138 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: it takes some of the pressure off, and it puts 139 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: you in a situation where you're expecting some level of healing, 140 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: You're expecting some sort of positive outcome. 141 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 2: Hey, what explains that The common modern understanding of this 142 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 2: historical practice, as quote the pleasurable activity of immersion in 143 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 2: more mineral water has social and psychological benefits but no 144 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 2: physiological vests. And this probably is true for the majority 145 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 2: of miracle cures people think that they received at the SPA. 146 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 2: But Haywood records that there is at least one condition 147 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 2: where there seems to be quite strong empirical evidence that 148 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 2: the SPA was doing something to heal the sick. Now, 149 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 2: what was that condition? It was what was known as 150 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 2: colica pictonum, a type of paralysis that you get from 151 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 2: chronic lead poisoning. 152 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 1: Hmmm. We've talked about lead poisoning on the show before, 153 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: so that certainly has been a widespread problem in the past. 154 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 2: We talked about lead poisoning, I think most recently, most 155 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 2: extensively in an episode called Cupid's Lead and Arrow from 156 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 2: a few years back that was about Oh, I don't 157 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 2: even remember what all we got into in that. That 158 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 2: was one where we did have a digression about lead 159 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 2: acetate or sugar of lead, known in Roman times for 160 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 2: its sweet taste. Yeah, you don't want to eat that. 161 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 2: But Kalica pi tonem paralysis you get from chronic lead 162 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 2: poisoning has characteristic symptoms. So it starts with what Heywood 163 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 2: calls abdominal colic, basically meaning abdominal pain, so what a 164 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 2: lot of people might call stomach pain, but actually your 165 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 2: stomach is higher up in your torso you pain around 166 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:23,119 Speaker 2: the guts, the intestines, and then also constipation, the inability 167 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 2: to move the bowels, and then eventually after that loss 168 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 2: of ability to control the limbs, but not always with 169 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 2: concurrent loss of sensation, so sometimes you can feel the limbs, 170 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 2: but you can't move them or can't move them correctly. Now, 171 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 2: the interesting thing about Bath is that Heywood writes, because 172 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 2: symptoms were very well documented when patients were admitted to 173 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 2: the Bath General Hospital, we are able to look back 174 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 2: at patients who showed up with this particular condition and 175 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 2: then keep track through the records of whether or not 176 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 2: they were cured, which could be measured according to local standards. 177 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 2: Was supposed to be measured rigorously by documented outcomes like 178 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 2: full recovery of limb function. Haywood writes that by analyzing 179 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 2: the records at this hospital, we can see that from 180 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 2: seventeen sixty to eighteen seventy nine, a span of almost 181 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty years, three three hundred and seventy 182 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:21,719 Speaker 2: seven patients presented at Bath with paralysis from lead poisoning, 183 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 2: and forty five point four percent of those patients were 184 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 2: documented as cured fully cured, and then a further percentage 185 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 2: of them were documented as having shown some improvement. Now, 186 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 2: it would be much more helpful to evaluate this in 187 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 2: the context of control groups, right. It would be great 188 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 2: if we had control groups that received no treatment or 189 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,439 Speaker 2: received a placebo, so we could see is this actually better? 190 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 2: But there are some reasons for thinking that this recovery 191 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 2: rate is above chance or placebo levels for the same condition, 192 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,839 Speaker 2: and we'll talk about those later. So Heywood quotes some 193 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 2: seventeenth and eighteenth century physicians on this condition, colicapictonum, to 194 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 2: see what they knew about it. There is a doctor 195 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 2: Rice Charlton. Actually it looks like his name could be 196 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 2: pronounced Charlatan. I don't know if there's any connection there, 197 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 2: but he's describing colicapictonum in the second edition of a 198 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 2: book called Three Tracts on Bathwater that's bath with the 199 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 2: capital B from seventeen seventy four, and Charlatan writes, quote, 200 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 2: in consequence of a most obstinate costiveness. Costiveness means constipation 201 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 2: obstinate costiveness attended with exquisite pain in the bowels. Upon 202 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 2: the constipation being removed and the pain diminished, the patient 203 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 2: loses the use of his limbs, the arms, and hands. 204 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 2: Most commonly, rheumatic pains sometimes attack the limbs before they 205 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 2: become paralytic. Lead we know is remarkably productive of this complaint. Now, 206 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 2: outbreaks of symptoms like this had been common in Europe 207 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 2: for centuries, in fact, going way back, going back to 208 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 2: Roman times, but for the longest time there was no 209 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 2: agreement about the cause, so somebody might get that, you know, 210 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 2: you could recognize what this pattern of symptoms were. It's like, oh, 211 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 2: you've got the thing where you have abdominal pain, your 212 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 2: gut's really hurt, and then you can't poop, and then 213 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 2: your wrist fails and you can't use your arms. Candidates 214 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 2: for the explanation included unresolved fevers. Just quoting here from 215 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 2: the paper, over indulgence in acid wines. I don't know 216 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 2: how much people do they want to indulge in acid wines, 217 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 2: Like your wine is spoiled, but you really just want 218 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 2: to get in there. 219 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: I mean, sometimes that's all you have around. I guess, 220 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: I guess that's true. 221 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:42,319 Speaker 2: No accounting for taste, and other explanations were quote high 222 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 2: living and passions of the mind. 223 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: So very broad categories, especially on those last two. 224 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 2: Yes, But actually in the eighteenth century the real cause 225 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 2: was identified. In seventeen sixty eight, the British physician Sir 226 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 2: George Baker correctly traced the origin of a particular epidemic 227 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 2: of colicapictonum. This epidemic was called the Devonshire colic to 228 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 2: lead poisoning, specifically caused by the widespread consumption of cider 229 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 2: tainted with lead. He traced it back to where it 230 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 2: came from and found out, yes, it's from this cider 231 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 2: that's got all this lead. And when the lead was 232 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 2: removed from the cider, the outbreak of colicapictonum was alleviated. 233 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 2: But unfortunately cider was not the only place you could 234 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 2: get lead. In the eighteenth and nineteenth century, people had 235 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 2: a vast range of options to explore that would end 236 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 2: up causing over exposure to lead. There was use of 237 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 2: lead hardware in the preparation, storage, and transport of food 238 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 2: and drink. And this is everything from lead pipes and 239 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 2: lead sinks to lead cooking pots, lead glazed earthenware, pewter plates, 240 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 2: et cetera. There were lead based cosmetics. There was lead 241 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 2: as a direct, intentional additive to food and drink, maybe 242 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 2: as a color rent like food coloring, or as a 243 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 2: flavor agent. It lead can in some forms taste sweet 244 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 2: or as a preservative and more on this in a second. 245 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 2: And then there were also lead salts that were used 246 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 2: as medicine. In less severe cases, lead poisoning would cause 247 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 2: a sort of like precursor series of symptoms. So lower 248 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 2: levels of lead poisoning would cause fatigue, weakness, headaches, and 249 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 2: what's described as a general malay is just kind of 250 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 2: a bad feeling of ill health and discomfort that you 251 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 2: can't really locate the cause of. And while lots of 252 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 2: people were dealing with minor chronic ill health from these 253 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 2: baseline levels of lead exposure, some people got even more 254 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 2: vicious doses of lead, often from occupational exposure, so you 255 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 2: might see refer to colica pictonum referred to as painters palsy. 256 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 2: People who were dealing with lead based paints a lot 257 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 2: in their line of work would have higher levels of 258 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 2: exposure than everybody else, and then they might end up 259 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 2: with this form of para. But not just that, there 260 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 2: was all kinds of manufacturing that involved lead at the time. 261 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 2: Another major source of high exposure to lead came from 262 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 2: lead adulterated alcoholic beverages. Again coming back to the example 263 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 2: of the devonsri colic being based in cider, Heywood writes, quote, 264 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 2: lead is soluble in such weak acids as the acetic 265 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 2: acid that's the acid that's in vinegar, formed when alcohol 266 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 2: is exposed to the air. So alcohol might easily become contaminated. 267 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 2: This contamination may occur incidentally during distillation when lead is 268 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 2: leached out of the soldered joints or base metal condensers, 269 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 2: or accidentally if sour cider or apple must comes into 270 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 2: contact with the lead, which was often used to repair 271 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 2: cracks in the cider press. Adulteration could also occur if 272 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 2: the cider was stored in lead glazed earthenware containers. Poor 273 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 2: or acid wines were sometimes adulterated deliberately in the Roman 274 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 2: tradition of using lead acetate as a sweetener improver or fungicide. 275 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 2: Reading this makes me feel so grateful for modern food 276 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 2: safety standards and regulations. Oh absolutely, it's just unbelievable reading 277 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 2: like what went into I don't know, Yeah, but this 278 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 2: paragraph here from hey what also makes me think of 279 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 2: the fact that before the real cause was known, some 280 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 2: people accused those who had this paralysis of indulging in 281 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 2: quote acid wines. It's like, oh, it's because you drank 282 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 2: acidic wine that you have the paralyzing colic. Those people 283 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 2: actually were probably detecting a real correlation but misunderstanding the cause. 284 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 2: It wasn't the acidic wine but a heavy metal that, 285 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 2: for a couple of different reasons, is more likely to 286 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 2: end up in sour wines. It might be added intentionally 287 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 2: to counteract the sourness, or because the acetic acid basically 288 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 2: the vinegar that forms in a sour wine was a 289 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 2: solvent four lead that might come from anything the storage 290 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 2: containers or the manufacturing equipment. 291 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: Okay, it makes sense. 292 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 2: So people who got more severe lead exposure, whatever the source, 293 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 2: whether that's from maybe occupational exposure if you're a painter 294 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 2: working in one of these factories, or from drinking alcoholic 295 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 2: beverages adulterated with lead. People with these types of exposure 296 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 2: could end up not just with the fatigue, the headaches, 297 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 2: and the malaise, but could end up paralyzed with the 298 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 2: colica pictonum. And then of course, if the disease progressed 299 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 2: beyond that, it could lead to convulsions, coma, and death. 300 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 2: And so that's the background. This brings us back to 301 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 2: bath the spa. Though bath had been used as a 302 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,959 Speaker 2: medicinal spa since at least as far back as Roman Britain. 303 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 2: According to Haywood, the first documentation of spa therapy being 304 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 2: used to treat what sounds like chronic lead poisoning comes 305 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 2: in a book from fifteen sixty eight by an English doctor, 306 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 2: William Turner, with a title that really lets you know 307 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 2: what the book is all about. So it's called a 308 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 2: book of the natures and properties as well as of 309 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 2: the baths in England, as of other baths in Germany 310 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 2: and Italy. Very necessary for all these persons that cannot 311 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 2: be healed without the help of natural baths. Very mid 312 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 2: sixteenth century book title. So in this mid sixteenth century 313 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 2: book with a paragraph for a title, Turner chronicled a 314 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 2: long list of conditions that he said were allegedly cured 315 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 2: by spa treatment after having surveyed of the use of 316 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 2: public baths in Germany and Italy. And these conditions included 317 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 2: quote bruising that cometh by falling or beating, for green 318 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 2: or new wounds, and for quote old wounds falsely healed. 319 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 2: But also he said, you know, there's a convergence of 320 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 2: symptoms that can be healed in these things, and it 321 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 2: kind of sounds like colica pictonum. I have to say 322 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 2: the following sentence from Turner is my new all time 323 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 2: favorite description of constipation. You've never heard constipation in terms 324 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 2: so evocative. So this is what Turner calls it. He says, 325 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 2: the vain appetite of going to stool when a man 326 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,959 Speaker 2: can do nothing when he cometh there, the hardness and 327 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 2: binding of the belly when as a man cannot go 328 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 2: to the stool without capital p physics. I'm sorry. I 329 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,159 Speaker 2: don't mean to laugh at lead poisoning, which is no 330 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 2: laughing matter. 331 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: But that that is good. This sounds like upper class 332 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: constipation to me. 333 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 2: The vain appetite of going to the stool it imagined. 334 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 2: It makes me think of like the the koles Shov effect, 335 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 2: Like you're showing that actor just gazing at the toilet 336 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 2: and you're imagining all of the like wheels turning in 337 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 2: his head as he yearns. 338 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, well he needs the physics. 339 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 2: I should have looked it up. I don't know what 340 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 2: that word physics refers to. Does that mean like the 341 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 2: intervention of physicians or maybe some kinds like pergetive medicine. 342 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: That's what I take it to mean, like you need 343 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: the medical enterprise to intervene. 344 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 2: Okay, so that's the first part of Turner's description, but 345 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,479 Speaker 2: the text also refers to paralysis of the body and 346 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 2: abdominal pain, as well as other symptoms that can be 347 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 2: caused by chronic lead poisonings, such as infertility, spontaneous abortion 348 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 2: and pregnancy, and even gout. So it's possible that Turner 349 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 2: is not correct about SPA therapy healing these conditions, but 350 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 2: it is interesting that he lists a large number of 351 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 2: symptoms all associated with lead toxicity as among the things 352 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 2: that can be cured by these spas. So by the 353 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 2: early fifteen hundred's bath already had a reputation as a 354 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 2: place that could cure paralysis, and one of the iconic 355 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 2: images associated with this place and its healing powers was 356 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 2: a big collection of discarded crutches. But it was noticed 357 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 2: by physicians even as far back as the sixteenth century 358 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 2: that there was one particular type of paralysis which the 359 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 2: waters were better at curing than other types of paralysis, 360 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 2: and this was what they called palsy after the colic. Again, 361 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,679 Speaker 2: this seems to be referring to the exact same pattern 362 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:25,360 Speaker 2: of symptoms. It's colic of pictonum. You have severe abdominal pain, constipation, 363 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 2: followed by weakness and paralysis of the limbs. Just one 364 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 2: early case study. This is from a report written in 365 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 2: the early eighteenth century by one doctor Robert Pierce. He 366 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 2: published accounts of his career in medicine in his memoirs, 367 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 2: and he wrote of one typical account. He says a 368 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 2: guy named a reverend mister Pilkington came to him from 369 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 2: Lincolnshire in sixteen sixty six, and Pierce described this man's 370 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 2: arms as quote hanging like flails, and said he was 371 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 2: unable to dress himself or eat on his own. He writes, quote, 372 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 2: although he was a clergyman, the disease had made a 373 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 2: quaker of him. 374 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know. 375 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 2: But after he bathed and drunk the water at bath 376 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 2: for six to seven weeks, he finally regained control of 377 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 2: his limbs, apparently including the ability to doff his hat 378 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 2: in greeting, which, based on this writing, seems like was 379 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 2: considered very important, but at least by this man Pilkington, 380 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 2: and a bunch of sources from the eighteenth century report 381 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,879 Speaker 2: specific patients who saw improvement at bath. It was people 382 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 2: with paralysis who happened to be employed as color grinders, pewterers, 383 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 2: and chemists, all people who would have had exposure to 384 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,719 Speaker 2: lead through their jobs. So it really seems like a 385 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 2: convergence is happening here, we're seeing a consistent pattern emerging 386 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,719 Speaker 2: in the records of who is getting healed at bath. 387 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 2: It might be worth noting what was standard treatment at 388 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 2: the time for people with colic of pictonem other than 389 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 2: going to bath. Well, sometimes when it was just the 390 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 2: colic and constipation stage, so just the abdominal pain and 391 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 2: constant pay, they would prescribe purges and emetics, so these 392 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 2: would be drugs to help induce stefecation and to induce vomiting. 393 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 2: Sometimes opiates would be given for pain for paralysis. Additional 394 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,959 Speaker 2: treatments could include confinement to a bland diet and in 395 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 2: cases after the actual cause was known, removal of the 396 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,479 Speaker 2: person from the lead source. That seems pretty important. So 397 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 2: what was the treatment at bath? How would that be different? Well, 398 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 2: this treatment involved bathing in the water, so you would 399 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 2: immerse yourself up to the neck anywhere between thirty minutes 400 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 2: and several hours, and this would usually be done starting 401 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 2: in the morning, with people either standing or sitting on 402 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 2: stone benches or seats in the water up to their necks. 403 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 2: Starting in the Tudor period, the water was changed once 404 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 2: a day, so they would remove the water after the 405 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 2: baths closed around noon, and then it would take about 406 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 2: nine hours for the pools to refill. Heywood notes that 407 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 2: getting there early in the morning was popular because it 408 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 2: meant that you got cleaner water. 409 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: Just think about that. I mean, it's still kind of 410 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 1: the deal. Right. The earlier you get to the pool, 411 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,479 Speaker 1: the less less time it's had to absorb certain things, 412 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: it's had, less time for stuff on the bottom to 413 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: get stirred up. 414 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 2: That's a good point. Oh you're a swimmer, yeah, do 415 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 2: you try to get there early when you can. 416 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 1: I'm generally a morning swimmer, not for these reasons, just 417 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: for scheduling reasons. But yeah, there have been times where 418 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, they just closed the pool for a 419 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: week and now they're reopening. Everything's nice and clean. I 420 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: want to get in. I'm going to be Monday morning, 421 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: first thing to get my shot at that clean, clean pool. Nice. 422 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 2: Do you have like waterproof earbuds or something. Do you 423 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 2: listen to music when you swim or I don't even 424 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:45,400 Speaker 2: know if that's the thing. 425 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: Honestly, no, it is. I see plenty of people do it. 426 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:49,239 Speaker 1: I just I've never done it. 427 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, well they so, Heywood says in this paper that 428 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 2: sometimes there was music or other stuff to entertain people 429 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 2: while they were bathing. I guess if you're just supposed 430 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 2: to sit in the warm water for three hours up 431 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,239 Speaker 2: to your and there's no music or anything that might 432 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 2: get boring. 433 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: Well it makes sense. And you know, I see the 434 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: same thing reflected in the YMCA pool that I go to, 435 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 1: Like there's there's often some sort of aquatic aerobics class 436 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: going on, there's music playing. And I was just thinking 437 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: of this when you mentioned earlier, like the social aspect 438 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: of of of healing at baths and spas. That's something 439 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: I think I often fail failed to think about. But yeah, 440 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 1: that's one of the advantages of going to any kind 441 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: of group exercise scenario is that, yeah, you're doing some 442 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: level of physical exercise, you're being guided in that physical exercise, 443 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: but then you are in the company of other people, 444 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 1: and you're going to get at least some level of 445 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: social boost. 446 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,159 Speaker 2: That's true, and I'm sure there was a lot of 447 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 2: socializing going on, especially since I would guess a lot 448 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 2: of the people bathing together. Probably you know, people came 449 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 2: there for different reasons, but probably a lot of them 450 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 2: had similar complaints. It sounds like and you know, you 451 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 2: can really have a long conversation if you have like 452 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 2: the same medical problem as somebody else. That can that 453 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 2: can really be a bonding experience. 454 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. And there's also seems like a high probability that 455 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:10,360 Speaker 1: you would have encountered people from your industry, other color grinders, 456 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: other pewterers, and other chemists, in addition to people being 457 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: treated for other maladies. Of course. 458 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 2: Exactly, so, so that's soaking in the water. What about 459 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 2: drinking the water? So Heywood rites quote drinking the water 460 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 2: became more acceptable after sixteen fifty when a clean supply 461 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 2: was provided which came directly from the spring. And then, 462 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 2: referring to that physician from earlier Pierce, Pierce claimed that 463 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 2: quote advantage has been found by drinking it, referring to 464 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 2: the bathwater, especially in the bilious chalicks. I think that 465 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 2: means collis and the usual effect of them loss of limbs. 466 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 2: Interesting again, I like singling out the people who have 467 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 2: the colic of pictonum as the ones who benefit from 468 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,919 Speaker 2: drinking the water, and Heywood rights. One to two pints 469 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,880 Speaker 2: were consumed each morning in divided doses. The patients chose 470 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 2: to drink much larger amounts, but this was frowned upon. 471 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 2: This taking us back to Plenty again, who was talking 472 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 2: about the people who get in the spring and then 473 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 2: they just want to drink it until you can't see 474 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 2: their jewelry anymore. 475 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: The distrust of too much hydration. 476 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 2: So Bath gained a reputation for healing throughout the second 477 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 2: half of the seventeenth century, though at the time it 478 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 2: had not yet been revived as a luxurious spa retreat. 479 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 2: Haywood says that the journey there was kind of treacherous 480 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 2: and accommodations were pretty dank. It was like, you know, 481 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 2: it was not fancy yet. But by the eighteenth century, 482 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 2: the physicians of Bath were convinced that the waters could 483 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 2: cure a number of diseases, including colicapictonem that and word 484 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 2: of these cures kind of spread around the country, attracting 485 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 2: a lot of attention. So people were making the journey there, 486 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 2: in some cases like royal people, but there were also 487 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 2: some doctors from outside Bath that were skeptical, including Richard Meade, 488 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 2: a physician to King George the Second. So well, there 489 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 2: was impetus to put together a sort of large collection 490 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 2: of data of like a study that would really convince 491 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 2: people to come there for treatment. And there's a whole 492 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 2: section of this paper that I'm not going to get 493 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,719 Speaker 2: into because it concerns the medical aspects less, but it 494 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 2: is very interesting. It's about the founding of the Bath 495 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 2: General Hospital and what some of the kind of cold, 496 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 2: cruel economic realities of that were. That like, a lot 497 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 2: of this may have been driven by locals around Bath 498 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 2: wanting their businesses to benefit from people coming to the 499 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 2: springs for medical treatment, but also them having a problem 500 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 2: that like a lot of the people who are coming 501 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 2: here for healing are poor, and we don't want just 502 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 2: poor people, so we want to find a way to 503 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 2: get the poor people out of the city and get 504 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 2: rich people coming. So some less than savory sort of 505 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 2: abuse of the concept of charity here, But this does 506 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 2: lead to this large collection of data at the hospital, 507 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 2: and Heywood notes some very interesting measures that were put 508 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 2: in place for the evaluation of clinical results at Bath. 509 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 2: One thing was treatment was regulated, so you're trying to 510 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 2: make sure that patients were getting basically the same thing, 511 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 2: they were getting treated in the same way. Also, because 512 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 2: to quote from Haywood quote, at that time, medical practitioners 513 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 2: were notoriously over optimistic when assessing the results of their 514 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 2: own treatments. Because of this, they had outcomes of treatment 515 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 2: assessed by a committee of doctors rather than only by 516 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 2: the one doctor who had managed the case in question. 517 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 2: So you're not getting to just like ride up the 518 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 2: outcomes on your own patients. 519 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: All right, that's good, spreading it around a little bit. Yeah. 520 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. They hoped that this would lead to quote, irrefutable 521 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 2: proof of the efficacy of the bath waters for healing. 522 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 2: Now I think irrefutable proof is a little over enthusiastic there, 523 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 2: but these are good measures to put in place, certainly 524 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 2: compared to the standards of the day. So this is 525 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 2: not a double blind, randomized controlled trial that would really 526 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 2: wouldn't become a standard until the twentieth century, but pretty 527 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 2: good for the time. Another thing was that it was 528 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 2: agreed that no patient would qualify as quote cured if 529 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 2: they still had any trace of the original symptoms they 530 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 2: showed up with, and they enforced pretty high standards of 531 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 2: record keeping. Okay, so what did the treatment at bath 532 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 2: consist of? Well, First, and very important to note, patients 533 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 2: were extracted from their regular environment for their stay in Bath, 534 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 2: which means they were almost certainly cut off from the 535 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 2: original source of lead toxicity lead exposure, and this in 536 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 2: itself is important to keep in mind because for all 537 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 2: we know, this alone could be causing major improvements. 538 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, getting them just away from their regular everyday exposure 539 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: to land. 540 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 2: And that could be in most cases either occupational or 541 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 2: from food and drink. And on that last note, they 542 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 2: were given plenty of fresh food at bath and this 543 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 2: included home brewed beer made there. The additional drinking of 544 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 2: alcohol beyond what was provided by the hospital was forbidden, 545 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 2: so this was another way to cut off additional lead exposure. 546 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 2: They were often given a purging medication to treat constipation. 547 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 2: Bathing was generally three days a week in the manner 548 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 2: previously described. So you know, you go sit or stand 549 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 2: in the water. You keep your head above the water line, 550 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 2: but it goes up to your neck and then again, 551 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 2: patients would often drink one to one and a half 552 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 2: pints of the spring water a day, maybe divided into 553 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 2: two different doses, and in some cases they might like 554 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 2: sort of pump the spring water over the paralyzed limb. So, anyway, 555 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 2: what are the results if we look back on them historically. 556 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 2: The results are pretty interesting. By analyzing the records kept 557 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 2: at Bath General Hospital, it seems there is a pretty 558 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 2: good reason to think that the SPA therapy at Bath 559 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 2: was doing something to relieve the symptoms of this disease, 560 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 2: in particular of Colica pictonum. The paper includes a table 561 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 2: compiling stats on patients admitted to the Bath Hospital from 562 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 2: seventeen fifty one to seventeen fifty eight. Out of one thousand, 563 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 2: five hundred and ninety patients total, one hundred and eight 564 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 2: of them were admitted with symptoms indicating that they had 565 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 2: paralysis due to lead toxicity. Those can be further broken 566 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 2: down into paralyzed patients who had occupational exposure to lead. 567 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 2: There were thirty seven of those including readmission, and patients 568 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 2: with the Devonshire colic meaning paralysis that was preceded by 569 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 2: severe abdominal pain and constipation, and there were seventy one 570 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 2: of these including readmissions. In the cases of patients with 571 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 2: occupational exposure, fifty nine percent were completely cured and ninety 572 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 2: two percent were improved. In the case of patients with 573 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 2: Devonshire colic, forty two percent were completely cured and ninety 574 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 2: three percent were improved. Now, my initial action to this 575 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 2: was that's interesting. But without a control group receiving no 576 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 2: treatment or placebo treatment, or without different treatment groups to compare, 577 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 2: how can we know it was the bathwater and the 578 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 2: immersion that was actually leading to these cures. So what 579 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 2: if simply maybe being away from the lead exposure on 580 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 2: its own would produce the same rates of recovery. Well, 581 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 2: that is possible, But the author considers that and offers 582 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 2: some evidence based on their referral letters correlated with each 583 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 2: patient's case in hospital records that may give us more 584 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 2: confidence than the results. So talking about the specifically the 585 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 2: workers who had occupational exposure to lead, most of them 586 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 2: came from London or the region in the southeast of England, 587 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 2: and Heywood writes, quote, fifteen had already been admitted to 588 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 2: one of the London hospitals but had not responded to 589 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 2: treatment there. They were referred to the Bath hospital as 590 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 2: quote incurable treatment. In Bath, eight were cured and the 591 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 2: other seven were said to be improved. These results support 592 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,760 Speaker 2: the view that the treatment in Bath had something special 593 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 2: to offer, as in London they would also have been 594 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 2: removed from exposure to lead and given purges emetics and 595 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 2: a bland diet apparently to no avail. So interesting here. 596 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 2: This still doesn't prove it, but it seems we have 597 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 2: a kind of crude analog of a control group based 598 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 2: in the treatment histories from these patients' referral letters. So 599 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 2: in many cases they had already been removed from the 600 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 2: lead and received other treatments for a long time in 601 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,720 Speaker 2: different hospitals and shown no improvement. So this is still 602 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 2: not as good as a real control group for a 603 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 2: number of reasons. For example, one I just thought of 604 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 2: is that it's not concurrent, so like, you know, the 605 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,880 Speaker 2: previous treatment that they got the other hospitals happened before 606 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 2: and then they came to Bath afterwards, So maybe the 607 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 2: cumulative time away from lead exposure could contribute to be 608 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 2: outcomes at Bath and so forth. But interesting results nevertheless. 609 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, and results that would seem to some degree 610 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: to point back to questions about the water, like what 611 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: is it about the waters of Bath or what they're 612 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: doing with the waters of Bath that may or may 613 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 1: not be having an impact, right. 614 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 2: That's right. So here's another thing that makes these results interesting. 615 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 2: The Bath General Hospital records spanned many decades and they 616 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 2: seem to indicate a consistently higher rate of cure and 617 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 2: improvement for palsy from Colica pictonum. So again, let exposure 618 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 2: paralysis than for other conditions such as paralysis from sources 619 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 2: other than lead poisoning. So it's possible that, you know, 620 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 2: maybe the Bath General Hospital doctors were using you know, 621 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 2: they could have been doing all kinds of tricks consciously 622 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 2: or unconsciously to make their treatments look more effective than 623 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 2: they actually were. Maybe they were using selective admission policies 624 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 2: to improve their outcomes, like patients to let into the 625 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 2: study that seemed more likely to improve, or maybe they 626 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 2: were just overly positive in assessing outcomes. But if any 627 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 2: of that were the case, why would the numbers be 628 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,359 Speaker 2: so much better for patients specifically with lead poisoning than 629 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 2: for all other conditions. 630 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:22,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's the numbers that really perk one's interests here, 631 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,800 Speaker 1: Because if you're just talking anecdotally about like the number 632 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 1: of abandoned crutches that they have there, it's like, oh, 633 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: that's not very convincing, because there are two majorly compelling 634 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 1: reasons that a sick person might abandon their crutch, and 635 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,320 Speaker 1: only one of them speaks to the effectiveness of the treatment. 636 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,239 Speaker 2: Yes, that's very good to point out. So again we 637 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,800 Speaker 2: get a little bit of extra confidence just by looking 638 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 2: at the difference comparing the different conditions in their outcomes. 639 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 2: So again, all this like it would not prove it 640 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 2: to the standard of a modern randomized controlled trial, but 641 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 2: I think there's at least a solid reason to suspect 642 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 2: that SPA therapy at Bath did have some healing powers 643 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,720 Speaker 2: for people who couldn't doff their hats because of lead. 644 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 2: And so this was the paper that initially got me 645 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 2: interested in talking about this. And the paper finally addresses 646 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 2: the question that might be burning in all of your minds, 647 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,320 Speaker 2: like if this is the case, if it was actually 648 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 2: effective at curing paralysis from lead toxicity, how does that work? Well, 649 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 2: Heywood's paper here speculates the first thing is the immersion. 650 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,239 Speaker 2: So a big component of this treatment at Bath was 651 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 2: spending a lot of time sitting in warm, mineral spring 652 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 2: water up to your neck, and Heywood argues that this 653 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 2: in itself could contribute to the outcomes documented at Bath 654 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 2: General Hospital. And to back this up, Heywood writes about 655 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 2: how in the nineteen seventies some researchers were doing experiments 656 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 2: for the Space program for NASA and trying to simulate 657 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 2: the effects of microgravity, and some of these experiments involved 658 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,839 Speaker 2: having astronauts sit up to their necks in warm water 659 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 2: for a long time. And Heywood points to a nephrologist 660 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 2: to named Murray Epstein, who demonstrated in some papers something 661 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 2: kind of interesting. When you sit around in water up 662 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,920 Speaker 2: to your neck, it makes you pee more. Specifically, not 663 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,279 Speaker 2: just pea more, but it increases the rate at which 664 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 2: you excrete water, but not just water, also sodium and calcium. Now, 665 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 2: why on Earth would that be. This is also not 666 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 2: something that's one hundred percent clear, but there seems to 667 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 2: be a reasonable explanation, Heywood offers, which has to do 668 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,280 Speaker 2: with water pressure. So like, if your body is sitting 669 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,399 Speaker 2: down below the waterline, you've got water pressing in on 670 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 2: your skin from all directions. And when that water pressure 671 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,880 Speaker 2: is pressing in on your legs and your abdomen, it 672 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 2: causes that external flesh to kind of push in some 673 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 2: blood and interstitial fluid. More fluids are getting pressed into 674 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 2: the body from the outside, and Heywood writes, quote this 675 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 2: extracellular fluid moves into blood vessels in the thorax, meaning 676 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,760 Speaker 2: the trunk of the body, producing an increase in central 677 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,320 Speaker 2: blood volume of about seven hundred milli liters. 678 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,719 Speaker 1: Now, it's interesting that this basically comes back to the 679 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 1: idea of purging fluids from your body, which is something 680 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 1: that was long thought or understood to have some sort 681 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 1: of roll in healing the sick. 682 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 2: Right, and in many cases that might not have done anything. 683 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 2: But I wonder if this means that in the case 684 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 2: of lead poisoning, the purges would actually be helpful anyway. 685 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:47,240 Speaker 2: But to continue here, so Heywood writes, the consequent rise 686 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 2: in right and left atrial pressures is the stimulus that 687 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,000 Speaker 2: leads to the large increases in urinary volume and sodium 688 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,319 Speaker 2: excretion that are observed during immersion up to the neck. 689 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 2: This is because sensory receptors for blood volume are apparently 690 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:07,359 Speaker 2: situated in the right atrium. So this relative central hypervolemia, 691 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 2: the condition of having extra blood volume extra fluid volume 692 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 2: in the body deceives the body which reacts as though 693 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 2: there had been an increase in total body fluid volume, 694 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 2: not just a reallocation of fluid. So does that make 695 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 2: sense that I think I'm explaining this right that the 696 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 2: simplified version is when you immerse your body in water, 697 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,399 Speaker 2: the water squeezes you and essentially squeezes some of your 698 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,840 Speaker 2: extra body fluid into the core of your thorax. It 699 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,920 Speaker 2: squeezes from the outside, so the pressure in the core increases, 700 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,400 Speaker 2: and because the pressure in the core increases, this tricks 701 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:46,080 Speaker 2: your body's blood volume sensors into thinking the total amount 702 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 2: of fluid in your body has increased, and thus to 703 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 2: compensate for this, it kicks off complex chain reactions in 704 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:57,319 Speaker 2: the the renal system that lead to increased excretion of 705 00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 2: urine and of things that get excreted through urine, sodium, 706 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:02,800 Speaker 2: and in this case calcium. 707 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:04,719 Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense, Yeah, but. 708 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 2: Why would this have anything to do with lead poisoning. Well, 709 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:12,719 Speaker 2: Heywood notes that the human body typically tends to handle 710 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 2: lead and calcium in a similar way. So when there's 711 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 2: lead in your body, the body treats it kind of 712 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 2: the same way it treats calcium. And so if this 713 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,879 Speaker 2: is causing increased excretion of calcium through urine, it may 714 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:32,399 Speaker 2: also be causing increased excretion of lead through urine. And 715 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,399 Speaker 2: in fact, Heywood was involved in experiments that were set 716 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 2: up at the Immersion Laboratory in the Bristol Royal Infirma 717 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:45,600 Speaker 2: Infirmatory Infirmary to test this hypothesis, and they in fact 718 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,680 Speaker 2: did find that urinary lead excretion goes up when the 719 00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,759 Speaker 2: body is immersed. So they tested this out on experiments 720 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,880 Speaker 2: with modern lead workers who were not suffering from symptoms 721 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 2: of lead poisoning, but still had lead levels much higher 722 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 2: than the mineral population in their blood. These workers were 723 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 2: subjected to three hour sessions of soaking up to their 724 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,200 Speaker 2: necks in water that was thirty five degrees celsius or 725 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:13,360 Speaker 2: ninety five degrees fahrenheit, and the experiments found that the 726 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 2: immersion did indeed cause them to pee out higher levels 727 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:21,480 Speaker 2: of lead than people normally do. Oh wow, okay, Heywood 728 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,560 Speaker 2: writes quote. The total amounts excreted during one three hour 729 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 2: immersion period are small compared to the total body lead, 730 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,280 Speaker 2: which is predominantly tissue bound. Okay, so not like free 731 00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,000 Speaker 2: in the blood, but bound up in tissues. Heywood goes on. However, 732 00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,360 Speaker 2: if these immersions were continued to the extent described in 733 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,239 Speaker 2: the Bath hospital records i e. Three Times a week 734 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:45,640 Speaker 2: for twenty four weeks, an appreciable proportion of the total 735 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,839 Speaker 2: body lead would be removed. We can therefore suggest that 736 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,840 Speaker 2: this was a mechanism through which traditional bath spa therapy 737 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:58,719 Speaker 2: could have operated. So that's fascinating. Just sitting immersed in 738 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,440 Speaker 2: the warm water currently could help you get more lead 739 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,880 Speaker 2: out of the body faster than you would doing anything else. 740 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this of course working in congress with not 741 00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,360 Speaker 1: having a whole bunch of lead flooding into your system 742 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:16,200 Speaker 1: through your occupation or other environmental causes exactly. 743 00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:20,359 Speaker 2: So you're removed from the original exposure to lead, you'd 744 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 2: have less lead coming in, and you're increasing the rate 745 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:25,120 Speaker 2: at which lead is going out. 746 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,960 Speaker 1: Okay, but there's some other amenities to factor in as 747 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:29,720 Speaker 1: well though, right. 748 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,320 Speaker 2: That's right. So, as I mentioned, you know, the patients 749 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,040 Speaker 2: at bath in addition to being removed from the source 750 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,280 Speaker 2: of lead and having the immersion, they also got good food, 751 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,240 Speaker 2: so that may have been a factor. They got gentle 752 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,960 Speaker 2: exercise that may have been a factor as well. So 753 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:46,560 Speaker 2: it's hard to know for sure with historical cases like this, 754 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,600 Speaker 2: because you know, you can't you're not running the test yourself. 755 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,279 Speaker 2: You can't isolate all the variables. You can only deal 756 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:56,239 Speaker 2: with the data we have from history. But in this case, 757 00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:00,080 Speaker 2: I think you could totally plausibly make the argument that 758 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:04,040 Speaker 2: that the immersion was really doing something for the people 759 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,960 Speaker 2: with lead poisoning. It was doing something more than just 760 00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,920 Speaker 2: getting them away from the original lead exposure. Now there 761 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,520 Speaker 2: was another interesting part of this, that's the immersion, which 762 00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,959 Speaker 2: Heywood treats as probably the main explanation. But what about 763 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,400 Speaker 2: drinking the mineral water. Again, hopefully not two levels described 764 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 2: by plenty where your rings disappear, but the level generally 765 00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,799 Speaker 2: prescribed to drink was like one point five to two 766 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,400 Speaker 2: pints a day. And Heywood notes that water from the 767 00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:35,400 Speaker 2: mineral springs of bath has elevated levels of calcium and iron, 768 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,160 Speaker 2: and citing a study by Mahaffe from nineteen seventy three, 769 00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:43,759 Speaker 2: Heywood observes that calcium and iron deficiency actually increase the 770 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 2: body's tendency to absorb lead, and calcium and iron deficiency 771 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,520 Speaker 2: increase the toxicity of lead that is already present in 772 00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:54,560 Speaker 2: the body. And this has been shown to the extent 773 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,760 Speaker 2: that calcium and iron supplements have been suggested as partial 774 00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 2: treatment for infants with higher than average level of lead 775 00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:04,600 Speaker 2: in the blood. So it's possible that the mineral water 776 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,240 Speaker 2: pints that patients at bath were drinking. That was helping 777 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:08,920 Speaker 2: out as well. 778 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean on top of that, if they're 779 00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,040 Speaker 1: if you're having to if you're having to pee more 780 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:18,279 Speaker 1: because of your soakings in the warm waters, you need 781 00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:20,759 Speaker 1: to be drinking more water as well, Like you need 782 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:24,200 Speaker 1: to stay hydrated, right, And this is something I saw 783 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:26,520 Speaker 1: reflected in some papers. Will probably discuss in the next 784 00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:31,760 Speaker 1: episode that, like, if nothing else, staying hydrated on clean 785 00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:36,160 Speaker 1: water like that alone is beneficial for the body, like 786 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,239 Speaker 1: because if nothing else, you don't want whatever is going 787 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,080 Speaker 1: on with your body to be exasperated by also having 788 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,600 Speaker 1: some sort of dehydration scenario going on as well. 789 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:50,200 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. Hydration incredibly important, so that plays a role 790 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,759 Speaker 2: as well. Though I want to be clear this is 791 00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,120 Speaker 2: not should not be taken as a general endorsement of 792 00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,960 Speaker 2: drinking mineral spring water, which could have all kinds of 793 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,440 Speaker 2: things in it. So it seems like in these these 794 00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,719 Speaker 2: people were probably doing all right, but you don't want 795 00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,680 Speaker 2: to be drinking water from sources you're not sure. 796 00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:09,040 Speaker 1: Or safe, right right, right, Yeah, but nothing else, like 797 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,840 Speaker 1: iuld say how much I wonder on a case that 798 00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,360 Speaker 1: case basis, like how much of that person's normal liquid 799 00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:19,440 Speaker 1: intake would have been confined to like beers for example, 800 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,040 Speaker 1: versus you know, they're still having beer. They're having good 801 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,879 Speaker 1: beer when they go to bath, but then they're also 802 00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,120 Speaker 1: having a large amount of water as well in addition 803 00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:29,640 Speaker 1: to that beer. So it seems like there would be 804 00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:30,759 Speaker 1: a net positive there. 805 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:35,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. So I would say in conclusion, while bathing in 806 00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:40,160 Speaker 2: a SPA probably does only work via placebo effect on 807 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,719 Speaker 2: a number of the conditions we've talked about throughout the 808 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,640 Speaker 2: series so far, on the conditions it was used to 809 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,640 Speaker 2: treat throughout history. I think this paper makes a very 810 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:51,480 Speaker 2: interesting case that when it came to paralysis from lead poisoning, 811 00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,000 Speaker 2: SPA therapy was genuine medicine. 812 00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:58,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fascinating, very fascinating. All right, Well, we're going 813 00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:00,919 Speaker 1: to go ahead and close out this episode on that note, 814 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,960 Speaker 1: but we will be back in a part four on 815 00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:11,240 Speaker 1: baths immersion and also drinking of naturally occurring spring waters, 816 00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:15,640 Speaker 1: thermal waters, et cetera. We still have some other important 817 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,960 Speaker 1: topics to discuss here, so come back for that. In 818 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,520 Speaker 1: the meantime, we'll just remind you that our core episodes 819 00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,520 Speaker 1: of stuff to blow your mind publish on Tuesdays and Thursdays. 820 00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,120 Speaker 1: On Wednesdays we do a short form artifact or monster fact. 821 00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,359 Speaker 1: On Mondays we do listener mail, and we're already getting 822 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,560 Speaker 1: some great listener mail about the Bath episodes, by the way. 823 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,879 Speaker 1: And then on Fridays we do Weird House Cinema. That's 824 00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,120 Speaker 1: our time to set aside most serious concerns and just 825 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:39,480 Speaker 1: talk about a strange film. 826 00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:43,200 Speaker 2: Huge thanks to our audio producer JJ Posway. If you 827 00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,240 Speaker 2: would like to get in touch with us with feedback 828 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,840 Speaker 2: on this episode or any other, to suggest a topic 829 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,040 Speaker 2: for the future, or just to say hello, you can 830 00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:53,120 Speaker 2: email us at contact at stuff to blow your Mind 831 00:47:53,280 --> 00:48:01,719 Speaker 2: dot com. 832 00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:04,359 Speaker 3: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. 833 00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,719 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 834 00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:24,759 Speaker 1: or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.