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Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's the

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Speaker 1: Thing from iHeart Radio. This past year marked the seventy

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Speaker 1: fifth anniversary of The Actor's Studio. As co president of

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Speaker 1: the studio, along with al Pacino and Ellen Burston, I

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Speaker 1: wanted to take a moment to celebrate the nonprofit organization

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Speaker 1: and all of its accomplishments. This episode is the first

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Speaker 1: in a series of conversations with people responsible for the

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Speaker 1: studio's success. When the doors of the Actor's Studio opened

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Speaker 1: in nineteen forty seven, in walked actors who would become

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Speaker 1: some of the most famous names in show business. Paul Newman,

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Speaker 1: James Dean, Eli Wallack and Anne Jackson and Marilyn Monroe.

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Speaker 1: They all flocked to the studio to embrace the philosophy

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Speaker 1: of Russian actor director Konstantine Stanislovsky. By the nineteen sixties,

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Speaker 1: these lessons, imparted by founders Cheryl Crawford, Bobby Lewis, Elia Kazan,

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Speaker 1: and later by acting guru Lee Strassburg, have begun to

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Speaker 1: influence nearly every serious actor in the world de Niro, Pacchino, Nicholson,

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Speaker 1: Bancroft and Moore. Today, some seven decades since its inception.

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Speaker 1: The need for truth in acting, referred to as the method,

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Speaker 1: can be found to some degree in almost every acting

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Speaker 1: program around the world. My guests today are two women

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Speaker 1: who have made extraordinary contributions to continuing the work of

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Speaker 1: the Actor's Studio and whose careers have resulted in significant recognition.

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Speaker 1: Gastelle Parsons won a Best Supporting Actress Oscar for Bonnie

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Speaker 1: and Clyde, the second film she ever made. Her time

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Speaker 1: as an actor and director in the theater is no

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Speaker 1: less significant. She's earned five Tony nominations and two Obie Awards.

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Speaker 1: Parson's work at the studio began in nineteen sixty two

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Speaker 1: and includes her roles as Artistic director from nineteen ninety

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Speaker 1: eight to two thousand and three and co Associate Artistic Director,

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Speaker 1: a title she currently holds. But first my conversation with

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Speaker 1: another leader within the organization, my co president, Ellen Burston.

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Speaker 1: Burston is perhaps best known for her performances in films

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Speaker 1: like Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, The Last Picture Show,

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Speaker 1: The Exorcist, and Requiem for a Dream. She also has

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Speaker 1: the distinction of winning the Triple Crown of Acting an

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Speaker 1: Oscar a Tony and two Emmys. I was curious how

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Speaker 1: she first found her way to the actor's studio and

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Speaker 1: how her craft changed when she began her work there. Well,

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Speaker 1: I've looked at some old television shows. There's Western that's

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Speaker 1: particularly amusing. Miss me in a cowboy hat on a horse.

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Speaker 1: It makes me that when I look at it. You know,

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Speaker 1: without studying, if you're born with a certain talent for acting,

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Speaker 1: you can kind of do it. You know, you make

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Speaker 1: say the words and make sense of them and cook

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Speaker 1: up some bit of emotion sometimes, but it's not real,

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Speaker 1: that's what it is. It's just not real. There's a

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Speaker 1: nasty word in our field. Indicated I was waiting for you. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was indicated acting. It was good enough to get by,

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Speaker 1: to have a career and doing guest shots on television. Now,

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Speaker 1: my first thing was a lead on Broadway, but they

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Speaker 1: were looking for a model, and I was a model

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Speaker 1: at the time, so I looked like the part and

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Speaker 1: I could sort of stumble about the stage and get by.

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Speaker 1: But after working for ten years without any real training,

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Speaker 1: I had this sense that there were actors around who

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Speaker 1: knew something I didn't know. You know. When I saw

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Speaker 1: Branda went and Jimmy Dean and Joanne Paige and Kim Stanley.

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Speaker 1: I went, what is it? What if they got that

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Speaker 1: I can't access? What is that? And I didn't know,

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Speaker 1: but I suspected that it had something to do with

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Speaker 1: Lee Strassburg. And a date came when I was cast

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Speaker 1: in a movie called Goodbye Charlie, starring Tony Curtis and

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Speaker 1: Debbie Reynolds and Walter Mathou and I was co starring.

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Speaker 1: And I was sitting on this set one day, all

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Speaker 1: done up with the wig that had been chirlimit claims

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Speaker 1: at one time, and a dressed designed by Edith Head

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Speaker 1: and makeup done by Debbie Reynolds brother who Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: I was done up, sitting on stage and I looked

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Speaker 1: around and I said, well, this is it. This is

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Speaker 1: the big time, next step, but I'll be playing Debbie

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Speaker 1: Reynolds park and this voice that it speaks to me

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Speaker 1: in my head on occasion at very important moments, said

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Speaker 1: very clearly I don't want it. And that was an

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Speaker 1: absolute chanting point. I packed up my house and my

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Speaker 1: kid and my dog and moved back to New York

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Speaker 1: and went to Lee Strassburg and basically said, teach me

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Speaker 1: and you've been out there for a while. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: get out there and you do Doctor Kildare seventy seven

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Speaker 1: Sunset Strip, Ben Casey, Perry Mason, Wagon Train, Gun Smoke,

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Speaker 1: Big Valley, Virginian, The Time Tunnel. I mean, my god,

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Speaker 1: this would be shorter of the shows you weren't on. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I saw all those shows there a The

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Speaker 1: Time Tunnel was we went back in time to the

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Speaker 1: earthquake in Krakatoa and one of the biggest earthquakes ever

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Speaker 1: until that time. And in the final scene we had

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Speaker 1: run out of time and money for the producer wanted

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Speaker 1: it over soon, so he came on stage with a

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Speaker 1: pot and a wooden spoon and he said, when I

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Speaker 1: hit the pot, you all wiggle to the right, and

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Speaker 1: I'll hit it again and you will wiggle to the left.

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Speaker 1: And that was the very quake. That was the earthquake?

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Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? That's what happened. That's when you

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Speaker 1: knew it was time to go home. Actually, it took

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Speaker 1: the big movie, the Debbie Reynolds. Yeah, she was wonderful,

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Speaker 1: nothink against sure, but it was that kind of movie,

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Speaker 1: you know, It was very glossy. Yeah, and I look

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Speaker 1: at it now. I looked at it recently and it's

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Speaker 1: I look good. Yea, I'll give it that. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was good. Mallie Reynolds was good. Yeah. He was Elvis's

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Speaker 1: makeup man. Oh yeah, yeah, really was. Yeah. But you know,

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Speaker 1: it was a certain kind of movie that I just

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Speaker 1: didn't want to do anymore. So I won't know what

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Speaker 1: to call him. But when you have a chance to

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Speaker 1: do that what I call brass ring acting, you're out

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Speaker 1: there and you've got a lot of shots at success

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Speaker 1: and money and fame and that kind of working for

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Speaker 1: the man out there, and you come home, you are

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Speaker 1: you out of work for a while, and you're and

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Speaker 1: you're being tested, and you would come back to New

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Speaker 1: York and you wonder, have I made the right decision

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Speaker 1: or did things become what you hope they would in

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Speaker 1: New York relatively quickly in terms of the quality of

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Speaker 1: the work. Came back to New York and what happened.

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Speaker 1: I went to Lee, I was interviewed by him. By interview,

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Speaker 1: he sat and look, he didn't look at me, and

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Speaker 1: he asked me questions. He said, what kind of music

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Speaker 1: do you like? And I said classical? And he sort

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Speaker 1: of nodded a little. He said, what's your favorite piece

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Speaker 1: of music. I said Greek's Concerto in a Minor And

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Speaker 1: he said what pianist? I said, Walter easy King and

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Speaker 1: he nodded, and I saw this smile at his face,

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Speaker 1: and oh, that was a good answer. I got that right, yeah, right.

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Speaker 1: And then I was accepted into his private classes, and

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Speaker 1: I did an audition for the studio for several years,

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Speaker 1: and finally one day I did it. See this has

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Speaker 1: happened the actor studio in California. And afterwards Lee said

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Speaker 1: to me, how long have you been studying with me? Dear?

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Speaker 1: I said seven years? And he nodded and he said, yes,

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Speaker 1: that's usually about what it takes. And that's when I

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Speaker 1: can an auditioned for the studio. Did he teach out

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Speaker 1: there as well? In the summers he go out to

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Speaker 1: California and teach out there. Yeah. And when you took

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Speaker 1: the private class that you say private meaning one on

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Speaker 1: one or you want a couple of other people? Oh no,

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Speaker 1: I meant, I meant not. The actors was a class, right,

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Speaker 1: And how many people were in that class? I would

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Speaker 1: say in attendance on any given day would be twenty

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Speaker 1: well that meant that better class. Yeah, when you're in

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Speaker 1: a room with him for the first time and he's

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Speaker 1: teaching you, was it a question of him trying to

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Speaker 1: push you toward things he wanted you to do, trying

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Speaker 1: to push you toward things he wanted to stop you

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Speaker 1: from doing. What did he say? Well, I'll tell you

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Speaker 1: the first time I worked for the first exercise is

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Speaker 1: to create your morning cup of coffee or whatever you drink.

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Speaker 1: It's not there, it's imaginary. So there are five people

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Speaker 1: working on the stage, at each doing a different sense memory.

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Speaker 1: I'm creating my cup. I see out of the corner

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Speaker 1: of his eye. He picks up the cards with our name,

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Speaker 1: looks for a name, and then it says l I

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Speaker 1: say yes, and I stopped working on the cup. He says, no, no,

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Speaker 1: continue working on your cup, which I do. Long pause.

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Speaker 1: Do you ride horses? I used to? Did you ride? Well? Well,

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Speaker 1: pretty well, I had my own horse. Long pause, Well

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Speaker 1: you don't have to ride that cup? What go on?

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Speaker 1: Make a mistake? Do it? Make a mistake? And I

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Speaker 1: start crying, And I cried for two weeks. Now what

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Speaker 1: were we talking about? I'm creating a cup. He's asking

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Speaker 1: about horses, And the result is I'm crying for two

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Speaker 1: weeks because he sought something that was part of my

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Speaker 1: conditioning that needed I needed to stop, and I didn't

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Speaker 1: know how. And he was telling me it was time

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Speaker 1: to give up my conditioning, that that was past, that

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Speaker 1: I could be open, I could make a mistake. I

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Speaker 1: didn't have to be afraid of being punished if I

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Speaker 1: made a mistake. And after two weeks, actually it was

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Speaker 1: my husband who said at the time, who said, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe you can just consider all of that stuff a

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Speaker 1: crutch that you've needed and you don't need it anymore,

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Speaker 1: And I went, yeah, right. So I then went back

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Speaker 1: to Lee without the crutch of my personality I had

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Speaker 1: developed from my conditioning, and became open as myself whatever

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Speaker 1: that was, which I didn't know, but I was willing

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Speaker 1: to discover. The studio. Obviously, this is the seventy fifth anniversary.

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Speaker 1: The place starts in forty seven, and you don't walk

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Speaker 1: in the door till twenty years later in sixty seven,

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Speaker 1: and by the time you come is it would you

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Speaker 1: say not in a negative way, because these things are unavoidable,

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Speaker 1: but would you say that it was like becoming like

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Speaker 1: the hip thing to do. Did people I mean the

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Speaker 1: fifties were a certain flock of people were there, and

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Speaker 1: then in the sixties you were there. Did a lot

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Speaker 1: of people were a craving the method, acting experience in

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Speaker 1: order to strengthen themselves as actress. What was the traffic

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Speaker 1: like there lots of people trying to get in. I

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Speaker 1: don't know that. I don't have that information. I do

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Speaker 1: remember I wasn't passed to my first audition. I had

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Speaker 1: to audition again. But when I did, Lee Grant told me,

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Speaker 1: because she was judging along with me, that when I

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Speaker 1: came out and sat up by dressing table and I

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Speaker 1: was using the fourth walls a mirror, and I was

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Speaker 1: looking at myself in the mirror, and Lee said to her,

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Speaker 1: you see, when they're right, they don't even have to talk.

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Speaker 1: But by then I had learned how to just do

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Speaker 1: the work. You know. The real issue, I think is

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Speaker 1: to be able to stay on stage doing what you're doing,

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Speaker 1: and not be projecting yourself out in the audience wondering

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Speaker 1: how you're doing. That's really what it's about. That you

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Speaker 1: can just be where you are, be present in the moment,

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Speaker 1: do just what you're doing, and not be judging yourself.

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Speaker 1: Would you say that before you went there and before

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Speaker 1: you started that work, when you went to work, beyond

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Speaker 1: that point, once you sort of to accrue these hours

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Speaker 1: there and these experiences there, did to change the way

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Speaker 1: you worked itself beyond job you wouldn't do. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean if you look at the Last Picture Show,

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Speaker 1: which happens to be an answer in the New York

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Speaker 1: Times cross robots this morning, the Last Picture Show was

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Speaker 1: the first time that I was doing the work in

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Speaker 1: a picture that you could see it and say that's

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Speaker 1: the work, and the director allowed that. The director wanted.

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Speaker 1: The director was thirsty for that. Peter said, a wonderful

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Speaker 1: thing I've always treasured. I had a scene where I'm

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Speaker 1: sitting in the living room reading a magazine. My boring

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Speaker 1: and it's I'm just bummed out that this is my life.

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Speaker 1: And I hear Cal's struck drive up, my lover, Oh good,

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Speaker 1: cow's here, And I put the magazine down and I

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Speaker 1: go to the door expecting to see him. And I

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Speaker 1: opened the door and it's my daughter and she comes

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Speaker 1: in and first of all, damn, it's not Cal. It's

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Speaker 1: my daughter two that was cal struck. What is my

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Speaker 1: daughter doing with Cal? Oh? My god? My daughter sleeping

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Speaker 1: with my lover? And I had to do all of

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Speaker 1: that without a line. And I'm sitting on the set

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Speaker 1: as they're lighting, and I'm thinking about all of that,

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Speaker 1: and I say to Peter, Peter, I have eight different

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Speaker 1: things to go through here and no line, and he

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Speaker 1: smiles like the cheshire cat and says, I know. I said, wow,

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Speaker 1: am I supposed to that? He said, think the thoughts

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Speaker 1: of the character, and the camera will read your mind.

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Speaker 1: That's the best advice. And they director ever gave me.

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Speaker 1: Who is a cinematographer? Do you remember? I think it

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Speaker 1: was Bob's for tease. I want to tell you a story.

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Speaker 1: He told me. It's a show bit story. He was

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Speaker 1: making some movie. I don't know what the movie was,

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Speaker 1: and the leading man completed his last scene. They did

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Speaker 1: a close up and he died, but they hadn't shot

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Speaker 1: the person he was talking to the reverse of her

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Speaker 1: close up, so they propped him up. It shot over

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Speaker 1: his shoulder. Is it even legal? No? Oh god, I

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Speaker 1: can't even believe that. Oh god. Yeah, you've had great

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Speaker 1: leading roles and have had great success in the movie

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Speaker 1: business with leading roles with great directors. You go on

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Speaker 1: to do The Exorcist. The two greatest horror films and

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Speaker 1: from my money, are Rosemary's Baby and The Exorcism. One

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Speaker 1: of them is kind of a baroque fantasy. Some of

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Speaker 1: the acting gets right up to the edge and it's

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Speaker 1: dripping with a kind of not an access but like

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Speaker 1: the right amount of a kind of weirdness or is

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Speaker 1: The Exorcist is about this incredibly awful and not necessarily

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Speaker 1: authentic thing that people are possessed in this way that's

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Speaker 1: played completely straight. Every actor walks in and they play

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Speaker 1: the whole thing completely straight. You and bon cdo and

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Speaker 1: Miller and Lee J. Cobb, Lee J. Cobb. Really, Now,

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Speaker 1: when you do that movie, did you rehearse but tweeks?

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Speaker 1: A couple of weeks of rehearsal. Yeah, on the set.

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Speaker 1: All of the house stuff was shot on a sound

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Speaker 1: stage in New York City, you know, those great movies

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Speaker 1: of the seventies. We rehearsed two weeks before when we

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Speaker 1: did the Last Picture Show. We were in that Texas

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Speaker 1: town and all of us were staying in a motel

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Speaker 1: by a highway. None of us had cars. We were

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Speaker 1: all unknowns. We didn't get those kind of contracts where

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Speaker 1: we had cars. So we were picked up in a bus,

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Speaker 1: taken to rehearsal and then dropped back in the motel.

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Speaker 1: So we only had each other. So we spent all

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Speaker 1: of our time when we were working together in our hotel,

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Speaker 1: you know, in one of our hotel pool Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: with a guitar, you know. Jeff Bridges brought his guitar

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Speaker 1: and we sang. And Chloris Leachman was going through a

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Speaker 1: horrible divorce and so was I, and we sat on

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Speaker 1: the floor and cried together about our divorces. But in

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Speaker 1: our Texas accents, you know. And The King of Marvin Gardens,

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Speaker 1: which was a wonderful movie that I was in that

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Speaker 1: wasn't a big success, but it's considered a classic now

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Speaker 1: with Bruce Dern and Jack Nicholson. We had two weeks

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Speaker 1: of rehearsal and we did with The Exorcist, that's where

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Speaker 1: the creativity gets born, you know. And I think they

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Speaker 1: make a big mistake in all of the movies that

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Speaker 1: are made now by the corporations that have taken over

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Speaker 1: the movie students to cut that out of the budget.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's not important to them. Those movies in

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Speaker 1: the seventies were great for a reason. They respawned from

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Speaker 1: Some writers need to write that story, you know, and

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Speaker 1: some directors need to bring that to life. It was

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Speaker 1: an art form, you know. It wasn't something that an

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Speaker 1: algorithm said, if you put these elements together, it'll make

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Speaker 1: X number of dollars. What do you do when you're

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Speaker 1: doing a scene and you're a person who is who

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Speaker 1: works a certain way, and the other people are not

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Speaker 1: doing the scene in a way that you might be

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Speaker 1: able to please with, You don't say anything, And it

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Speaker 1: was you know, you only keep your focus on yourself. Well, no,

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Speaker 1: then that person, the character is behaving that way. You know,

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Speaker 1: that's the reality I'm in. You can only take what

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Speaker 1: they give you. Yeah, and if you're in this scene,

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Speaker 1: if you're present, then whatever that person is doing, that's

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Speaker 1: what you're dealing with. Somebody who behaves like that. Have

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Speaker 1: you ever walked away from apart in film, TV or

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Speaker 1: a theater that you realize at some point you thought,

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Speaker 1: I'm not right for this part. Well, I've turned down

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Speaker 1: a lot of films, Yeah, I mean it turned down

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Speaker 1: a lot of scripts that I read and I didn't like.

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Speaker 1: But then once I like a script, and I usually

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Speaker 1: ask to be the director, and I feel sympatical with

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Speaker 1: the director. Then what comes comes You did a sitcom

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Speaker 1: and I did a sitcom, And what is the applicability

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Speaker 1: of method acting in the world of sitcoms? Like when

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Speaker 1: you go to a sitcom? What did you tell yourself?

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Speaker 1: Did you sit there and say a lot of that's

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Speaker 1: going to have to go out the window. Because, of

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Speaker 1: course we were joking before you came in, my producers

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Speaker 1: and I about you being a sandwich in between Megan

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Speaker 1: Malali and Elaine Stretch that we would love to have seen.

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Speaker 1: We would love to have been a fly on the

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Speaker 1: wall on that set. Yeah, I found Angie upstag. Molly

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Speaker 1: the dog has decided to have puppies in Nana's closet.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry to interrupt your class, Ellen, but there's something

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Speaker 1: in my closet and it's growling. Excuse me? Would you

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Speaker 1: said outside? I don't want to know. I am trying

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Speaker 1: to teach class in there, Allen. Class is not something

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Speaker 1: you teach. You either have it or you don't. Megan

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Speaker 1: was my choice and it was her first show, right,

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Speaker 1: She had never done anything before, and she auditioned for

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Speaker 1: it and I just fell in love with her wanted

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Speaker 1: her to do it. The director had another pick and

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Speaker 1: I fought for Megan, and Fanny went because you know,

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Speaker 1: it was called the all person show. He and I

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Speaker 1: were not a happy marriage that that director. We were

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Speaker 1: partners in it, and we did never have the same

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Speaker 1: idea what the show ought to be. And he's very

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Speaker 1: talented writer, director, and especially with comedy, but we just

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Speaker 1: had different backgrounds and different training, so it didn't work.

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Speaker 1: I just remember, you know, we were playing to a

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Speaker 1: live audience, so it was like doing a live show,

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Speaker 1: and it just never it was never gibing. I. I

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Speaker 1: had a friend who was assisting me. I mean, she

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Speaker 1: was being my assistant on the show, and I have

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Speaker 1: this image of her standing outside my dressing room with

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Speaker 1: her arms folded, keeping everybody out as I cried for

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Speaker 1: a long long time. You know, she was like the

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Speaker 1: guard at the door as I cried. So it was

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Speaker 1: a miserable experience. Elaine as my mother, and Elaine was

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Speaker 1: I think only seminary exactly, but she's a wonderful, amazing talent.

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Speaker 1: So I Elaine played my mother that's the other thing

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Speaker 1: we have in common, Actors Studio co president Ellen Burston.

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Speaker 1: If you love conversations about creativity and craft, be sure

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Speaker 1: to check out my episode with Distinguished Actors Studio member

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Speaker 1: Dustin Hoffman. Someone said to me, if you want to

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Speaker 1: know Lenny Bruce, you gotta go see Sally more his mother.

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Speaker 1: She introduced me to one of his best friends, and

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Speaker 1: he in turn introduced me to friends with Lenny. They

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Speaker 1: all said the same thing. He was always very quiet,

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Speaker 1: and suddenly he's gone because he wasn't shy guy. And

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Speaker 1: he's gone, and they look around. I don't know where

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Speaker 1: he is, and then they find him in the kitchen

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Speaker 1: talking to the help. He loved to just talk to

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Speaker 1: the people and ask questions and find out stuff. The

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Speaker 1: musicians were more important to him than the audience. Lennie

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Speaker 1: felt that if he could crack up the musicians than

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Speaker 1: he was getting Somewhere here more of my conversation with

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Speaker 1: Dustin Hoffmann at Here's the Thing dot Org. After the break,

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Speaker 1: Ellen Burston shares some of the best advice she gives

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Speaker 1: to members of the Actor's Studio. I'm Alec Baldwin, and

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Speaker 1: you were listening to here's the thing. Ellen Burston began

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Speaker 1: her time at the Actor's Studio in nineteen sixty seven,

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Speaker 1: but quickly rose through the ranks, serving as a moderator,

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Speaker 1: artistic director and now co president. I wanted to know

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Speaker 1: when and how she first became a part of the

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Speaker 1: leadership of the studio. Lee died in the early nineteen eighties,

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Speaker 1: and there were many of us on the board who

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Speaker 1: came together to, you know, keep the studio together. Al, myself,

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Speaker 1: Paul Newman, Shelley Winter's, Arthur penn, A Stale Parsons, many others.

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Speaker 1: And at first it was decided that there would be

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Speaker 1: a troika which was me and Al and Arthur, I think,

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Speaker 1: and then after a while it just got down to

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Speaker 1: me and Al, and then Harvey became a co president too,

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Speaker 1: and then when Harvey's term was over, you joined. So

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Speaker 1: I've been involved right along. Lee started me moderating right

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Speaker 1: after I won an Oscar and which was I think

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Speaker 1: seventy four, So I had always been in a position

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Speaker 1: of a moderator at the studio since then and on

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Speaker 1: the board. So I've been deeply involved the studio since

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies. You know, the times I would

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Speaker 1: teach acting, not moderating. Obviously, there's a profound difference, as

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Speaker 1: you will know. But when I would teach acting, which

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Speaker 1: I hate it, I really didn't care for it because

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Speaker 1: so much of it is you know what you bring you,

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Speaker 1: how do you have it? Or don't you acting? I

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Speaker 1: think lessons could make you a better actor, but can

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Speaker 1: they make you a good actor? I don't really know.

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Speaker 1: I can't make you a talented actor. Yeah you either

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Speaker 1: yeah you have the talent or not. Now the studio now,

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Speaker 1: it's seventy fifth anniversary. When I first came and was

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Speaker 1: invited by Corsaro to come and attend and be an observer,

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Speaker 1: many many years ago, there were people there who were members,

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Speaker 1: who were older, many of them not having the same

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Speaker 1: career that you had. They hadn't worked in quite a while.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they were really that the studio was really their

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Speaker 1: only link to the business in a way. They weren't

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Speaker 1: working in film or television or theater. But I see

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Speaker 1: now there was a different wave of people coming there.

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Speaker 1: There are younger people coming through there now. It's like

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Speaker 1: a new crop of people that are really finding this

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Speaker 1: work essential for them. Do you feel that way that

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Speaker 1: there's a new generation of people coming through the doors.

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Speaker 1: I do. You know. Kazan said when he started this

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Speaker 1: studio that he wanted to establish a spiritual home for actors,

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Speaker 1: and that's what it's become. It's a place where actors

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Speaker 1: can go to work on their craft, to work on

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Speaker 1: their ability to do their very best work and transcend

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Speaker 1: what's naturally available to them without that kind of deep study.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'd say to actors, you can't just act

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Speaker 1: when you get a job. You've got to be in shape,

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Speaker 1: You've got to practice, you have to be doing it. Horowitz,

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Speaker 1: who is the greatest being pianist of his time, practiced

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Speaker 1: eight hours a day every day of his life until

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Speaker 1: he died. And that's the kind of dedication it takes

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Speaker 1: to be an artist of any kind, if that's what

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Speaker 1: you're interested in being. That's what interests me about acting

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Speaker 1: is the art of acting, and that's what the studio

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Speaker 1: is home to for young actors, old actors, any actor

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Speaker 1: who wants to come and experience the art of acting,

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Speaker 1: whether they get a gig or not. Who's one person

426
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: you worked with who you noted that they worked most

427
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: the way that you do. Someone when you were working

428
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: with them, I thought, oh God, this is really a treat.

429
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: Even Le Gallien, my god, subscribe. Well, you know, she

430
00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: had a repertory company in New York, and she was

431
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: the only person who had a repertory company in New

432
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: York for many years. And she was a great actress,

433
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: but she had never been on film. She was only

434
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: in the theater. And when I made my favorite film

435
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: of all time that I made, Resurrection, I had to

436
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: have a grandmother, and I invited Eva le Galliant up

437
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: to lunch and I asked her if she would play

438
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: my grandmother, and she did, and the experience of working

439
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: with her. She had a moment where I was saying

440
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: goodbye to her and she had the line, that's it,

441
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 1: isn't it. If we could just love each other the

442
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: say way we say we love him, I expect there

443
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: wouldn't be such bother in the world. And every time

444
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: she said the word love, I swear her voice dropped

445
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: into her heart and pushed tears out of my eyes.

446
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 1: I look, you, come on, yeah, that's it. If we

447
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: could just love he shot as much as we say

448
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: we love him, I suspect there wouldn't be the bother

449
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: in the world. There is every take, no matter how

450
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: many takes or angles we did. It came right out

451
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: of her chest, her heart into my tear ducks. She

452
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: was the most remarkable actor I ever worked with. And

453
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 1: she's only been in a film once. And it's my

454
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: favorite film, Resurrection, and you can now see it. It's

455
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: on road. Cool, it's available. I play a healer and

456
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: I put the film together as your favorite film you

457
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: ever did? Yeah, okay, and nobody saw it, although it's

458
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: one of the films from its nominated for. But she

459
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: was the greatest startist I ever worked with acting artists.

460
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: Thank you for doing this with me. It's my professure.

461
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: Ellen Burston, my next guest, the great Estelle Parsons has

462
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: done everything from ethel Merman musicals to playing Rosanne's mother

463
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: on the beloved TV sitcom to directing the Bard on stage,

464
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: all within her long and illustrious career. After some false

465
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: starts in both the legal and political professions. I wanted

466
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: to know what had eventually led her to become an actor.

467
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: I didn't have any path in my life. My mother

468
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: took me to There was a community theater in Lynn, Massachusetts,

469
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: Tavern Players. It was run just by chance by a woman,

470
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: an extraordinary directing type woman. And they did plays for children.

471
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: Someone wrote them in the community, and they did plays

472
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: for grown ups. And it was what you now would

473
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: call a really good community theater and really good people

474
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: in it. I mean, I was seven. How do I

475
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: know a good person a bad person? But anyway, my

476
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: mother wanted to be a part of it. Every I

477
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: guess her social set was a part of it. So

478
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: she took myself and my sister to it. So I

479
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: started acting then in children's plays. In the first thing

480
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: I did, I was a frog and that was great.

481
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,479
Speaker 1: But then it came time for the performance and I

482
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: had this frog suit and then I put on the

483
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: frog head and went out on the stage to do

484
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: my part. And I thought, I'm never gonna wear anything

485
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: over my head on the stage again. And I never have.

486
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: And that was the beginning of my understanding acting acting

487
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: as something that happens between people and an audience. You know,

488
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: That's really what it's all about for me, theater acting.

489
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: I don't know whether the other stuff people do TV

490
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: films is that acting. Sure it is, but it's different.

491
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: I don't want to mention just for our audience's edification

492
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: here that you're one of the few actors I've ever

493
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: met in my life who buy a good amount. Your

494
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: Broadway credits exceed your film and television credits. So funny,

495
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: isn't that funny? So you're exposed to this in this

496
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: theater as you're a kid, but you go on to

497
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: the Oak Grove School for Girls. Well I was boarding school.

498
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: I mean, you have to go to school, but I

499
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: didn't think acting was something you did when you grew up.

500
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: You know, I'm from New England. I'm from an old

501
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 1: New England family. Back to sixteen thirty two. Yeah, when

502
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: you went on to go to Connecticut College, what was

503
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: the sense of what you wanted to study there. I

504
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: didn't want to study anything there. I didn't want to

505
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: go there. I grew up at Jack Lemon. I mean,

506
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: he lived four houses from me. So he played the piano.

507
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: I played the piano, and he made up all these

508
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: wonderful songs, and so I had a whole routine that

509
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: I could do, you know, in bars and stuff at parties.

510
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 1: I'd just go to parties and wait for someone to say, hey,

511
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: stelcom play the piano, and then I'd do my routine

512
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: with these songs of Jackies and some others that I

513
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: threw in myself. So that was what I really wanted

514
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: to do. But it was just a natural thing to

515
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: go to college. But all the time I was there,

516
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 1: I said to my father, look, people come up from

517
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: New York. They hear me, they see me. I've got cards.

518
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: I can go start in New York. He said, no,

519
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: you want to finish college. You'll be glad that you did.

520
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: I was, of course, in the English department, and I

521
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: went to the first class and they were studying Macbeth,

522
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: and mister Thuram, who was head of the whole English shebang,

523
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: started talking about Macbeth and I got so offended, offended

524
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 1: so badly that they would sit there and talk about

525
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: Macbeth as an intellectual thing that I went directly to

526
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 1: the dan and said, I'm out of the English department.

527
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 1: I can't take that. I can't listen to Macbeth being

528
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,800
Speaker 1: talked about that way. Why because they were just talking

529
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: about it as an intellectual exercise. It's meant to be

530
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: on the same okay. So I said, you know, I

531
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: think I'd probably go into politics because I didn't think

532
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: you acted well listen listening for me, I thought, this

533
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: is UK, this is too whiskey. I need to go

534
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:28,359
Speaker 1: to law school. I was going to go to law

535
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 1: school and get a real job. But eventually when you

536
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: left the English department, because when you were offended by

537
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: the intellectualization to Macbeth, but then you're going to be

538
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 1: you law school, Well, I thought I'd go into politics,

539
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: and so I got out of college, and then I

540
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 1: was hanging around. I was just standing Fava Gardner and

541
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: some stuff on tour. You know, they had to do

542
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 1: long shots for some movies to just make it with

543
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: the card game all. I was just hanging around after college.

544
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: I didn't quite know what I wanted to do. When

545
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 1: I was working in this. When I was a kid

546
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: in that community theater, the woman who ran it saw

547
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 1: that I had a gift, obviously, so I was playing

548
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: leading roles all the time I was a kid. By

549
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:15,439
Speaker 1: the time I was fifteen, I was a perfectly professional actor. Anyway,

550
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: I decided to go to law school. So I went

551
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 1: to be You. Because Harvard didn't take women, and there

552
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: were two women and like two hundred and ninety nine men.

553
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: The other woman was the wife of one of the men.

554
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: You went to lockobas for drink, you had to sit

555
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: in the back steps because they wouldn't let you in

556
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: the bar because you were a female. The next year,

557
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: Harvard took women, and of course took me in the

558
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: first year. Again, they wouldn't take me in the second year,

559
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: even though I'd finished year. Laws transfer your year. What

560
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: kind of world is this? And I didn't like competing

561
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: against men all the time. I just found that I

562
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: loved men, and I just didn't want to compete against

563
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: them all that. I thought, if I go into this profession,

564
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,879
Speaker 1: I'll just be the loneliest person in the world. Which

565
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 1: the women that I knew in the profession were, you know,

566
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: a generation before or after me? When did you? I mean,

567
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: I'm assuming at one point you moved to New York.

568
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,879
Speaker 1: I didn't really move to New York. No. A friend

569
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: of my family had driven up in a Cadillac that

570
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 1: broke down, so they had to go back on the train.

571
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,879
Speaker 1: And so the friend called on my mother and Saystella

572
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 1: isn't doing anything, and she drive their Cadillac back to

573
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: New York for them. So I said sure, So my

574
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 1: mother and I got in the Cadillac and drove to

575
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: New York and I stayed with some girls from college

576
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: who had moved down here just for a couple of days,

577
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,720
Speaker 1: and I went to see my roommates. Sister had married

578
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: a guy who was at NBC, so I went over

579
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: to say hello to him, and he said, Hey, you

580
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 1: know they're hiring people from warning television. Why didn't you

581
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: go and see this guy more Warner. He's coming from California,

582
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 1: he's from radio, going to start morning television. There's no

583
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 1: morning television, which because there wasn't there was nighttime television.

584
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,800
Speaker 1: Nobody in nighttime television wanted to go in morning television

585
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 1: because nobody thought anybody would watch it in the morning.

586
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: So I went to see this guy, said yeah, well

587
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: send me yours CV or. I didn't know what it was.

588
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: So I'm back to Marblehead with my mom and I

589
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: wrote up my life story. I thought that was what

590
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: he wanted, so I sent him my life story and

591
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 1: he calls me up and says, you're hired. So I

592
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 1: said to my father, you know, I'm going to New York,

593
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: probably be gone six months. I mean, nobody's going to

594
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: watch TV in the morning. So well, he said, we

595
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:46,760
Speaker 1: Parsons don't leave home, you know. So I said, okay,

596
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: I'll just be gone six months and I'll be back,

597
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 1: which I thought I would. And I was with NBC

598
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 1: for five years. Five years. Yeah, I was the first

599
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: woman to do political reporting for a network. Did you

600
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: do cover conventions? Were you covered Marilyn Monroe? I covered conventions.

601
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: I went on the road with Keith Fover when he

602
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 1: ran for president. Yeah. I had all kinds of good

603
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: one was this, this was and then I got married

604
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: and then I had twins. And then Jerry Greensid was

605
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: sending you to the Grace Kelly wedding in Monico, and

606
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 1: I said, you know what, Jerry, I don't want to go.

607
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: And it was the you know, everybody wanted to be

608
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: the person that was sent to Monica. I don't want

609
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: to go. He looked to be an elect president. I

610
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 1: think I'm going to move on. Really, that's when you knew.

611
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: And my husband said, why didn't you go on the stage.

612
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: You're always talking about it. So I said okay. And

613
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: his friend Dave Burrows was gonna do happy hunting with

614
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 1: Ethel Mormons, so I went and sang for Ay Burrows

615
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,879
Speaker 1: that he hired me nineteen fifty six, and I've been

616
00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 1: on the stage of a since. And let me ask you.

617
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: You make your debut, I would imagine as the way

618
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 1: to put it in nineteen fifty six, Happy Hunting, And

619
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: you don't make a movie until nineteen sixty three, which

620
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: is Ladybug, Ladybug, seven years after you start acting. And

621
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: in that seven years until sixty three, you do a

622
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 1: bunch of shows. I was on tour with Carol Channing

623
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: with the Millionaires, and it was Frank Perry, whom I

624
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: knew from the Actor's Studio. Along the way there, I

625
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: became a member of the Actor's studio. Year did you

626
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,760
Speaker 1: go to the Did you first go to the studio?

627
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: It was in the fifties. I heard about it, and

628
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: I asked a woman who was working with me on

629
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: the Today, So I said, hey, I want our audition

630
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: for this place. I read about it in the Times

631
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,320
Speaker 1: and how all the actors were there and everything. It

632
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 1: sounded like a good place to be. So I had

633
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: a seen from our town, you know, Emily, And I

634
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: asked a person who wasn't even an actress, who was

635
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: working on the show Today's show with me. Come from California,

636
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: with She was a writer or something. I don't know

637
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: what she was, but anyway, said just take this and

638
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 1: read it. I'm going to go audition for the studio.

639
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: Can you believe how dumb and naive. It's hard to

640
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: believe how dumb and naive one is when one as

641
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,720
Speaker 1: young as me. So I go into Kauzanne and Bobby Lewis,

642
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,240
Speaker 1: who started the studio with this person who's not an actor,

643
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 1: and I'd do my little acting about Emily in our town.

644
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: And Kazanne said, you know, Lee Strasburg has acting classes,

645
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: and he said, I think you ought to go over

646
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 1: and see Lee Strasbourg. So I did, and I made

647
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: an appointment and I got there and he came out

648
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 1: and there was a chair in the hall. I was

649
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: sitting there and he said why didn't want to be

650
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: an actor? And I started crying, and I cried for

651
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 1: about five minutes. But you see, everything going on with

652
00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 1: me was purely subconscious. I didn't have any conscious drive

653
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: to do anything. I was just living my life. I

654
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 1: thought that's what life was about. You just kind of

655
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 1: live it and nobody cared what I did. So I

656
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 1: didn't know you was supposed to do this supposed to

657
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: do that or whatever other people do. Now, what I'm

658
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: curious about is that was Strasburg, someone who when you

659
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: met him and you first started working with him, were

660
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,760
Speaker 1: you impressed by his gifts as a teacher right away?

661
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 1: I know one thing, I never wanted to study acting

662
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 1: with anybody ever. You know, there were all these places

663
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: people were going to study acting. I didn't nobody had

664
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: anything to teach me. I still feel that way. Nobody

665
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: had anything to teach me at all. I knew all

666
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 1: about it. I'd been doing it since I was seven.

667
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 1: What is it that you get up there? You have

668
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: something to do lines? Yeah, you have to remember your

669
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: lines and say them loud enough for our five hundred

670
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: people to hear it. And that's the job. What's the

671
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: big deal about acting? Right? Everybody was in there, George

672
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: Bippard and the Wenttonio and all these people went on

673
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 1: to do things, and Marilyn Monroe by the way, later on.

674
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: But anyway, the private classes were great. This is before

675
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,240
Speaker 1: I got into the studio. You see, That's why Kazan

676
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 1: had sent me there to do those classes and then

677
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 1: get into the studio. But you see, what he created

678
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: was a space where he had to really give your all.

679
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 1: You see, it was not good. It was not get

680
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: up and be good. It was not get up and

681
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: do what you remember. It was get up and be great.

682
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 1: At least that was my impression of it, because I'd

683
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 1: gone to all these other classes in and I couldn't

684
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 1: stand it. But with him, it was just a space

685
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 1: where you had to get up and the stakes were

686
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,839
Speaker 1: so high. You just had to be great. You had

687
00:43:54,880 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: to aim at greatness. Estelle Park, If you're enjoying this conversation,

688
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,320
Speaker 1: don't keep it to yourself, tell a friend and follow

689
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: Here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever

690
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. When we come back, Astell Parsons

691
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: shares how living out of the trunk of her car

692
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 1: with her children led to her winning an oscar. I'm

693
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and this is Here's the thing. Actors Studio

694
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: co Associate artistic Director. Astell Parsons has a deep relationship

695
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: with the theater, including numerous roles on and off Broadway.

696
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,280
Speaker 1: I wanted to know if earning an oscar so early.

697
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 1: For her second film, Arthur Penn's Bonnie and Clyde in

698
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven sparked a desire for more work in cinema.

699
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 1: I have no interest. That's why I didn't do any

700
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: before that, because they had no interest. I had lots

701
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,280
Speaker 1: of opportunity to do films and TV, but I didn't

702
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,399
Speaker 1: want to. I wanted to work in the theater, but

703
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 1: then I wanted to work for Arthur. So I didn't

704
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,359
Speaker 1: care where Arthur was or what he was doing. But

705
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to do that. Because he said. We

706
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 1: were working at the Berkshire Drama Festival and he said,

707
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: I've got a movie i'd like you to read, and

708
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,399
Speaker 1: I said, I don't do movies. And he said, well,

709
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: I'd like you to read it. And I said, okay,

710
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 1: I'll read it. But I'm telling you I'm going to

711
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,760
Speaker 1: San Francisco. I've left New York. I've got my kids

712
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 1: with me. I'm joining a company out there that John

713
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: Hancock has started. So I'm making a whole new life

714
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: in San Francisco. So I'm not going to do your

715
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,240
Speaker 1: movie because I'm going to be in a rep company.

716
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: So all they've ever wanted to do in my life

717
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: is being a rep company. So that's where I'm going.

718
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: She said, Well, read it. So I started reading, Oh,

719
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: for God's sake, it's a madel In Sherwood part. Why

720
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,839
Speaker 1: am I bothering to read this thing? And then as

721
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,720
Speaker 1: it went on, I thought, Jesus, this is a really

722
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,919
Speaker 1: interesting thing. But I was on my way to San

723
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,399
Speaker 1: Francisco and my kids and the dog and the whole thing.

724
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: Then I get a call from John Hancock that the

725
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 1: money fell apart and we weren't going to San Francisco.

726
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 1: I had already sublet my apartment in New York. I

727
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: was living out of a trunk with my two kids.

728
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: So I called Arthur and said, I can do your movie.

729
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 1: So I went to the library because I had months

730
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 1: to sit around and do nothing, waiting for this movie

731
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 1: and rearranging my life because my rep company dream fell apart,

732
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: and I knew more about Bonnie and Clyde and everything

733
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,800
Speaker 1: they did in their lives and any other person on earth.

734
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 1: By the time I got to that to make that movie,

735
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: I just knew everything. Who was The first project you

736
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 1: directed was a stage play. The first play I really

737
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 1: directed Huzanne and Cleopatra. And the reason I directed it

738
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 1: was that there was this thing called the Women's Into

739
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 1: Art theater, and she said, I want you to do something.

740
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 1: I said, okay, And I had prepared Cleopatra and Media

741
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 1: and Lady Macbeth. I had prepared those at the studios.

742
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 1: So I was prepared to play those parts. But I

743
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 1: didn't know a director who would you know, like work

744
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: for ten cents where the theater was located. So she

745
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 1: kept saying, well, you do whatever you want to do here,

746
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: you do it. And then you know who says that

747
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: to an actor? Do what you want to do. Somebody thought,

748
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 1: oh gosh. I said, well, I'm going to direct it

749
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: myself because I can't get anybody directed. And the Shakespeare

750
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:49,399
Speaker 1: Quarterly called it the best Shakespeare since Oh Rapturous. If

751
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 1: you would read the Shakespeare Quarterly what Arthur Holmberg said

752
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 1: about me in that production and how it looked at

753
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 1: it was going to be so terrible and it was

754
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: really so wonderful, And where did I get the courage

755
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: to do that kind of work? And always things, you know.

756
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 1: But then we adopted a boy and I went off

757
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: to I was over in Ireland and I got a

758
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 1: call in a sauna somewhere on the Dingle Peninsula, and

759
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 1: I got a call from Joe pavsing, I'd like you

760
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: to start a Shakespeare company for me, a multicultural Shakespeare,

761
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: just the kind of work you didn't Annie and Kleopatra.

762
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: So I said, okay, And when we got back, I

763
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,800
Speaker 1: had a Shakespeare company for him for two years and

764
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 1: eighty six you direct as you like it and Scottish

765
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 1: Play and Romeo and Juliet. I knew the director of

766
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,840
Speaker 1: all three. Yeah. That was a theater company. Yeah, that

767
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: was my Shakespeare New York Shakespeare Festival Players. We played

768
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: for the entire school system. I did Scottish Play and

769
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: it was this really, really incredible learning experience. There were

770
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 1: two times in my life, one in the theater and

771
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 1: one in the movies. I said I'm going to put

772
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: myself in the hands of the director. And we did

773
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: Scottish Play, and I just said to myself, I'm gonna

774
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 1: do whatever George asks me to do. I'm going to

775
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: find a way to make that work, even if I

776
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 1: don't agree with him. I'm going to stuff down my

777
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 1: feelings and try to find a way to address what

778
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 1: he's saying. I did that in a film as well,

779
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: and I was so fucking miserable both times because when

780
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 1: we did Scottish, but I love George. George was very

781
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: sick at the time, he was about to get a

782
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 1: kidney trans George c Wolf. Oh yeah, George was running

783
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: in the public then, and then he directed the play.

784
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 1: I did the play with Angela Bassett and Leef Schreiber.

785
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: Remember there was one scene where I knew what I

786
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 1: wanted to do. I knew what I wanted to do,

787
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 1: and I didn't have that much experience with Shakespeare. I

788
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 1: really didn't. But I knew what I wanted to do,

789
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 1: and he wouldn't let me. He really really. We just

790
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 1: clashed and clashed and clashed. But I learned you got

791
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 1: to make me understand. You gotta make me understand. I'm

792
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 1: begging you make me you want me to do what

793
00:49:56,600 --> 00:50:01,280
Speaker 1: and why? You know? Now, when you won an Academy Award,

794
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: did that change your filming about making movies? Did you

795
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 1: sit there and go, hey, this is nice. Your second

796
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 1: film only your second film? Well, the first film was

797
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 1: half an afternoon shoot, so I didn't really count that

798
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: as a film. Lady Buck, Lady Buck, Yeah, okay, so

799
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 1: your first full film and you wanted Body and Clyde

800
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,399
Speaker 1: and there was my first film because I didn't want

801
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: to do film, so there was also my last film.

802
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 1: But after that, I did do a few more. I

803
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 1: don't know how many, but a few only because I

804
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 1: did one because it was the first black man to

805
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: do a movie in Hollywood. As don't do it, don't

806
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 1: do it. Tis that I'm doing it. He wanted me

807
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:42,319
Speaker 1: to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going

808
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: to help him out, Melvin Van Peebles. I did that,

809
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: and then I did two or three others because I

810
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:52,240
Speaker 1: wanted to put my kids through college. The winning didn't

811
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:55,359
Speaker 1: motivate you. I kept my mouth shut because I know

812
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 1: how important it is to people wanted movie careers, but

813
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 1: I just didn't want one. Sorry, sorry, I just didn't

814
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 1: want it. I had no use for in that, for

815
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 1: my life, for me in that life. And not only that,

816
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 1: I hated it because you know, it'd go out of

817
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 1: the house and there'd be people standing on the sidewalk

818
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: out of my house to waiting for me. I can't

819
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,399
Speaker 1: have a life like this. Yeah, I mean other people

820
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:21,360
Speaker 1: can have a life like this. They want a life

821
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 1: like this, fine, let them have it. I can't have

822
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 1: a life like this. I got to be able to

823
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 1: go through life. You know, as a person, I've got

824
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 1: to be able to have my life. I can't do

825
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 1: this success thing. What's the less thing you saw in

826
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 1: the theater that you enjoyed, that you liked well? Of course,

827
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: Adrian's play is on and I love Adrian. I commissioned

828
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 1: a play from her. When I run the studio. What's

829
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: the play? Ohio State Murders that's running now? Yeah? What

830
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 1: keeps you connected to the studio? Oh, I'm doing wonderful

831
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: stuff at the studio because I can do anything I

832
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 1: want there. I've always been able to do. It's an

833
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 1: empty pace. Come on, what do you want to do? Well?

834
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: I have things I want to do, and I get

835
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 1: up and do them. I have directed so many things there.

836
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:09,959
Speaker 1: I have a devised piece that I'm sending all over.

837
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 1: I have two one man shows, one with an Hispanic

838
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 1: actor and one with a black actor. For years they

839
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 1: are going around the country and even around the world

840
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:22,319
Speaker 1: with their one man shows about growing up, you know,

841
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 1: in the ghetto and so on, or coming from Dominican

842
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 1: Republican stuff. I have those shows out. I have three

843
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:32,240
Speaker 1: or four other shows out. I'm selling here and not selling,

844
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: but you know, not a lot of money changes hands,

845
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 1: but I don't really have an interest in money. So

846
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 1: can I come carry a spear for you in one

847
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 1: of your productions? Can I have some lunch out? Don't

848
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 1: ask that because I'm liable to call you right out

849
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Speaker 1: this afternoon. You should my thanks to Estelle Parsons and

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Speaker 1: Ellen Burston. This episode was recorded at CDM Studios in

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Speaker 1: New York, York City. We're produced by Kathleen Russo, Zach McNeice,

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Speaker 1: and Maureen Hoban. Our engineer is Frank Imperial. Our social

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Speaker 1: media manager is Danielle Gingwich. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the

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Speaker 1: Thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio.