Speaker 1: Welcome to tonight's classic episode Fellow Conspiracy Realists. The hard
Speaker 1: truth of ufology is this, not all sightings are created equal.
Speaker 1: Some appear to be a one off happenstance with maybe
Speaker 1: a single stranger, no recording, it's just an experience they
Speaker 1: witness by themselves, maybe in a rural area. But others
Speaker 1: seem to have a lot more to them.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, and today we're talking about one specific sighting,
Speaker 2: a mass sighting. It was experienced by a bunch of
Speaker 2: school children, and then basically those school children grew up
Speaker 2: and interviewed with the person we're speaking with today. So
Speaker 2: this is like as close to first hand accounts as
Speaker 2: you can get.
Speaker 3: So let's hop on the space train with Randall Nickerson
Speaker 3: where we talk about his investigations into these kinds of
Speaker 3: sightings and a documentary that he participated in on the
Speaker 3: Aerial School UFO Encounter.
Speaker 1: From to Psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled
Speaker 1: with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn
Speaker 1: the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt nol
Speaker 2: Is on Adventures.
Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined with our super
Speaker 1: producer Paul Decant. Most importantly, you are you and you
Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want
Speaker 1: you to know. Matt. At the top of the show, Okay,
Speaker 1: here we are, I have to say thank you for
Speaker 1: bringing this episode to Fruition because you and I have
Speaker 1: talked in previous previous shows about UFO sightings.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, oh yeah, one of the most fascinating things
Speaker 2: that I think can occur in this world.
Speaker 1: And over the years we've covered various aspects of it,
Speaker 1: and we've often found We've often found people who will
Speaker 1: attempt to explain a genre of sighting, like a type
Speaker 1: of sighting, or will attempt to explain a single incident.
Speaker 1: But what's fascinating and startling to both of us, I believe,
Speaker 1: is that even in the modern day, there are so
Speaker 1: many huge sightings that have been sort of lost to history.
Speaker 1: You may have you may be listening now, and you
Speaker 1: may think I vaguely recall hearing something about something like
Speaker 1: a specific incident, But too often we lose the details,
Speaker 1: and too often we as a civilization forget to investigate
Speaker 1: the actual nuts and bolts, the specifics that timelines. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the what happened and when.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. And the most fascinating genre within the UFO
Speaker 2: siding of that type, for me at least, is the
Speaker 2: mass sighting where it's not just you know, a small
Speaker 2: group of people like a family or something that saw
Speaker 2: something something like the Phoenix Lights, where there's almost an
Speaker 2: entire town that has this sighting at one time, or
Speaker 2: something like what we're going to discuss today. And we
Speaker 2: have someone very special on the show today who is
Speaker 2: currently directing and producing an entire film, a documentary about
Speaker 2: one particular UFO siding and encounter. His name is Randall Nickerson.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the show, sir.
Speaker 4: Thanks guys, I appreciate being here.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for being on the show with us.
Speaker 2: Come on currently.
Speaker 1: Currently, as as we speak, there are questions that remain
Speaker 1: about a specific mass sighting of an unidentified flying object
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety four in Zimbabwe at a place called
Speaker 1: the Aerial School. Could you tell us and the listeners
Speaker 1: just a little bit about the gist of this what
Speaker 1: people usually mean when they refer to this phenomenon.
Speaker 4: It was an event that took place in nineteen ninety
Speaker 4: four at the Aerial School in a rural area of
Speaker 4: Zimbabwe in Africa. Where a school yard of children had
Speaker 4: seen this craft of some kind silver that had come
Speaker 4: down and set down in the back of the school
Speaker 4: yard about one hundred and fifty two hundred yards back,
Speaker 4: and they saw these creatures in black that came out
Speaker 4: of this object. Some of them, many of them had
Speaker 4: eye contact with it and one of them, at least
Speaker 4: one had approached the playground. There were other witnesses also
Speaker 4: adults that we had witnessed either the object itself in
Speaker 4: the sky. There was a lot of anomalies at the
Speaker 4: time also, but the main incident seemed to be this
Speaker 4: school in Zimbabwe.
Speaker 2: So these are students that were outside and they experienced something.
Speaker 2: How old are these kids that saw this thing? And
Speaker 2: roughly how many of them were there?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 1: There were.
Speaker 4: It was a schoolharded children between the ages of six
Speaker 4: and thirteen. The number of children that drew drawings had
Speaker 4: the headmaster of the school after the incident happened and
Speaker 4: there were the children are all shook up, and initially
Speaker 4: the children were not believed by the teachers, teachers or
Speaker 4: the head master. But after that they had gone home
Speaker 4: to their parents and shared the story with their parents
Speaker 4: with their appropriate emotional impact and all that the head
Speaker 4: master had had them come come back and draw what
Speaker 4: they saw. So there were sixty drawings made, but through
Speaker 4: the research and meeting a lot of these people, there
Speaker 4: were quite a few more than that.
Speaker 1: So that's a fascinating point then, because it sounds like
Speaker 1: the sixty plus children were talking about and the drawings
Speaker 1: these all are only the witnesses and the depictions of
Speaker 1: which we're currently aware. There's one interesting thing we found here,
Speaker 1: which is that in the aftermath of the siding, the
Speaker 1: children were interviewed by the BBC Bureau chief for Zimbabwe.
Speaker 4: Is that correct, that's correct. Yeah, he was the first
Speaker 4: one to interview the children. He was the first person
Speaker 4: with a camera and he happened to be with a
Speaker 4: you know, with the BBC to show up at the
Speaker 4: school and actually start asking questions.
Speaker 2: What did with that initial reporting? You know a lot
Speaker 2: of times when UFO sidings make the news, it's almost
Speaker 2: in a joking way, or there's a there's a bit
Speaker 2: of it's not looked at with really any type of seriousness.
Speaker 2: Even in nineteen ninety four, perhaps especially in nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 2: How was it treated when it initially hit the news?
Speaker 4: It was treated similarly that it wasn't taken seriously in
Speaker 4: the beginning. I think the BBC reporter didn't take it seriously.
Speaker 4: He was trying to you know, when he was interviewing
Speaker 4: his children, He's like, are you sure it wasn't a helicopter.
Speaker 4: He's sure it wasn't, you know, normal standard things. So, yeah,
Speaker 4: there was a lot of skepticism by everybody, the teachers,
Speaker 4: the parents, to the whole event. So it was difficult
Speaker 4: for the for the witnesses, which often I think after
Speaker 4: meeting a lot of other witnesses from other incidents around
Speaker 4: the world that involved you know, uh UFOs or unidentified
Speaker 4: aerial phenomena, you know, they're it's they're not. It's hard
Speaker 4: for people to find a place where they can actually
Speaker 4: share their experience.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And one thing that's fascinating about the timeline here
Speaker 1: with this citing in particular, is while while many mass
Speaker 1: media outlets so often, as you and Matt pointed out,
Speaker 1: so often treat these reports with anywhere from skepticism to
Speaker 1: a dismissive tone, this story did not did not disappear.
Speaker 1: In fact, Harvard psychiatrist doctor John Mack became involved.
Speaker 4: Correct, that's true, Yes, he came. He was called by
Speaker 4: the BBC reporter to because the reporter was felt like
Speaker 4: he was out of his way, out of his territory
Speaker 4: and needed more professional guidance. Doctor John Mac, He's a
Speaker 4: Harvard psychiatrist. He had won the Pulitzer Prize. He had
Speaker 4: spent twenty years as a child psychiatrist psychoanalyst, and so
Speaker 4: he had a lot of experience with children and he
Speaker 4: was he went traveled to Zimbabwe uh To to investigate
Speaker 4: this this incident and was very interested in, you know,
Speaker 4: seeing seeing what it's legitimacy was, if it was legitimate,
Speaker 4: and what that meant. You know, he was looking into
Speaker 4: at that time UFO reports and witnesses, and he at
Speaker 4: that point was starting to look globally, you know, not
Speaker 4: just about incidents in the United States, but incidents in
Speaker 4: South America, Africa, European countries to see how widespread the
Speaker 4: phenomenon was. Because doctor mac had started to take it
Speaker 4: seriously after he had met some I think about ten
Speaker 4: witnesses that he was introduced to and his he when
Speaker 4: doctor Mac first approached this, he thought that this was
Speaker 4: some kind of psychiatric phenomena, some kind of psychiatry that
Speaker 4: it was coming from the person, not an external actual reality.
Speaker 4: But when he started to meet people that and that
Speaker 4: he put through psychological psychological screening tests, he found that
Speaker 4: they were telling the story that was had all the
Speaker 4: earmarks of real experience. I think, you know this, this
Speaker 4: whole phenomena is I think generally the public is not
Speaker 4: highly educated about you know, things that are normal, you know,
Speaker 4: astronomical events. And the reason I'm bringing that up is
Speaker 4: because there are a lot of reports that are just
Speaker 4: you know, everyday objects that astronomers know or other people
Speaker 4: are aware of, you know that that specialize in those fields.
Speaker 4: But there's a lot that we we don't know. There's
Speaker 4: been many studies about the unidentified aerial phenomena, uh that show, like,
Speaker 4: you know, out of all the reports, probably five percent
Speaker 4: are legitimate mysteries because largely the general public is not
Speaker 4: educated in a way to know, you know, what what
Speaker 4: what occurs normally in the sky. Astronomers know, people that
Speaker 4: spend a lot of time out at you know, in
Speaker 4: in in the environments at night, or educated in that
Speaker 4: department to know when if it's venus rising on the
Speaker 4: horizon or or setting on the horizon, and or some
Speaker 4: other objects, fireballs, or space debris. There's there's so many
Speaker 4: different things that can be misidentified and be be a
Speaker 4: shock to somebody who's never seen them or that isn't
Speaker 4: aware of st you know, the iss the space station
Speaker 4: when it crosses over, it's a pretty amazing site. So
Speaker 4: I just wanted to bring that up because I think
Speaker 4: it's important that you know that there are reports that
Speaker 4: you know, a lot of them that are just can
Speaker 4: be relegated to things that are just normal, you know,
Speaker 4: things that just happened. But then there's that five percent,
Speaker 4: which is what interests anybody looking into this, that are
Speaker 4: truly legitimate.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm really glad you talked about that because
Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of writing I've seen online
Speaker 2: about this just commenting. You know, anyone who has an
Speaker 2: Internet connection can comment now on anything, And some of
Speaker 2: the more derisive comments I've seen about this particular event
Speaker 2: are about, Hey, these are kids. These are kids who
Speaker 2: saw something. They were probably making stuff up. Maybe they
Speaker 2: just saw something and they're all, you know, it was
Speaker 2: a helicopter or something and they decided to make a
Speaker 2: game out of it. In particular, these children are these
Speaker 2: are well spoken kids. You got your hands on the documentary,
Speaker 2: all of the footage, basically the news footage, and you're
Speaker 2: using it to craft your documentary. Can you talk to
Speaker 2: us a little bit about just what these kids sound like,
Speaker 2: what it's you know, they sound credible just to me
Speaker 2: sitting here watching a trailer for the aerial phenomena, But
Speaker 2: talk to me about being immersed in that just for
Speaker 2: as long as you have been. What are these kids like?
Speaker 4: They're highly intelligent, all of them in the school itself
Speaker 4: is a is a Christian school still, and you know
Speaker 4: they they're very highly educatedchildren and partly due to the
Speaker 4: teaching staff and how much love and care they give
Speaker 4: their students. Being immersed in it and meeting these children
Speaker 4: as adults, it's been Yeah, it's been a really beautiful
Speaker 4: experience just on a personal level, like getting you know,
Speaker 4: meeting meeting just another person, but they actually happened to
Speaker 4: have a story that I'm interested in and seeing I
Speaker 4: guess part of it. Uh, you know, people say, well,
Speaker 4: why you know, yeah, these kids may have made something
Speaker 4: up or I just find that really difficult to believe
Speaker 4: because I have all the archival of you know, they've
Speaker 4: been interviewed half a dozen times by you know, several
Speaker 4: different news outlets and reporters, you know, when it happened,
Speaker 4: immediately after it happened, and the consistency in those reports
Speaker 4: is just riveting. It's just it's fascinating just on that level,
Speaker 4: the consistency that children that young can tell the same
Speaker 4: story from their own perspectives that you know, corroborates every
Speaker 4: other one. And they're not like getting together. I've never
Speaker 4: I haven't seen that we're getting together and you know,
Speaker 4: coming up with something or you know that doesn't seem
Speaker 4: to be that way. And as adults, they're still they
Speaker 4: still think of that day out of any day in
Speaker 4: their life, what happened on that day. It's it's it's
Speaker 4: fresh to them. So I went through my own struggle
Speaker 4: of like, well, did this happen or did this not happen?
Speaker 4: What are the other possible explanations for this? And but
Speaker 4: I've over time become pretty convinced that something really occurred there.
Speaker 4: That these comes through small details, small details that even
Speaker 4: as some of the adults remember that they don't even
Speaker 4: know about the archival that I have, but they'll mention something,
Speaker 4: you know, as a as adults, now that they don't
Speaker 4: even know about that I have in the archival from
Speaker 4: some other child who mentions that detail. It's it's just
Speaker 4: it's that kind of thing where there's a there's a
Speaker 4: lot of corroborating evidence. I guess you could say that's
Speaker 4: what that would be the word that speaks to the
Speaker 4: validity that that this occurred, and it's not It wasn't
Speaker 4: like a normal event, you know. It wasn't like a
Speaker 4: typical UFO thing that they could have read out of
Speaker 4: a book. It was very, very different than the standard
Speaker 4: you know, or I don't know if there's a standard encounter,
Speaker 4: but you know what, what others have run into is
Speaker 4: very unique encounter with whatever this intelligence is.
Speaker 1: And this is a tremendous point that you have hit upon,
Speaker 1: and it's one of the first questions that a lot
Speaker 1: of people who consider themselves more on the skeptical end
Speaker 1: of the spectrum will have. The idea of children reporting
Speaker 1: stories leads into the concept of kids without meaning to
Speaker 1: be misleading, manufacturing memories, or getting details wrong, and so
Speaker 1: it's tremendously important to emphasize that in this case, the
Speaker 1: children's details. I love how you point out that the
Speaker 1: details are one of the things that really set you
Speaker 1: on a path of discovery here, because we can always
Speaker 1: as human beings, misremember things or get things wrong. But
Speaker 1: if multiple people are having these same accounts, and if
Speaker 1: they have come to these accounts through their own experiences,
Speaker 1: you know they are not, as you said, getting together
Speaker 1: off camera or something and making sure their stories match.
Speaker 1: If they are all reporting from their own perspective a
Speaker 1: similar or identical event, then it builds a much stronger case.
Speaker 1: And an additional thing that I know all of us
Speaker 1: out in the audience are wondering, is something that came
Speaker 1: about as we were exploring the communication with the children
Speaker 1: or should we say the former children who were involved,
Speaker 1: because they are now as you said, they are adults,
Speaker 1: right in their twenties or thirties, and now that there's
Speaker 1: this time that has passed, I feel like there's part
Speaker 1: of the story we also need to explore here, which
Speaker 1: is your part? Randall? How did you you become involved
Speaker 1: in this investigation? How did you become the documentarian who
Speaker 1: is exploring this event and bringing it to the world.
Speaker 4: Well, I started actually September eleventh. That was down in
Speaker 4: New York City, two blocks away from the World Trade Center,
Speaker 4: when the building came building too came down, and that
Speaker 4: was kind of my inspiration to get into film and
Speaker 4: tell stories, you know, share real stories, because that was
Speaker 4: a very real event for me, and like everybody struck
Speaker 4: everybody in a way that probably made most people to
Speaker 4: make changes in their lives. And I started making short
Speaker 4: films and one was on the value of silence and
Speaker 4: listening in the world, unity, personal relationships, therapeutic relationships. And
Speaker 4: I had showed it to a friend of doctor John Max,
Speaker 4: and she had asked me if I was interested in
Speaker 4: making a film about this Zimbabwe case, and I said sure,
Speaker 4: And I was very fascinated with just seeing me children
Speaker 4: being interviewed. I'm like, my first impression, I think everybody
Speaker 4: sees that is that they're telling the truth what they
Speaker 4: saw or whatever. I didn't know at the time, like
Speaker 4: exactly what that truth was, but they were telling the truth.
Speaker 4: They felt honest and truthful, and you know, I was
Speaker 4: originally supposed to make a thirty minute DVD for the
Speaker 4: John mac Institute, and I just I felt like that
Speaker 4: John Max material was very good, but I felt like
Speaker 4: it there was there had to be more to the story.
Speaker 4: I wanted to know more. I wanted to know more
Speaker 4: about well, were there other sources that I can compare
Speaker 4: his interviews to, you know, to see where he was
Speaker 4: coming from or where the kids were the story was consistent.
Speaker 4: So I found the school back in two thousand and eight.
Speaker 4: And as soon as I found it, and then that
Speaker 4: came to a reporter in South Africa, I immediately went
Speaker 4: there and discovered a whole bunch of different things that
Speaker 4: the that the BBC was there, and then there was
Speaker 4: a big hunt to find that reporter and to get
Speaker 4: his uh archival footage and of and and and I
Speaker 4: continued to do this for years to find all the
Speaker 4: archival because that that to me was important. If I
Speaker 4: could compare doctor max footage with that with all the
Speaker 4: other people that had interviewed these children, that would convince myself,
Speaker 4: you know more so and be more of a convincing
Speaker 4: story if the consistency was there, which it was, And
Speaker 4: so that's that kind of led me to thinking of
Speaker 4: it like this is such an important story, not only
Speaker 4: about the fact that this happened alone, that that some
Speaker 4: school in rural Africa had this full encounter, but the
Speaker 4: story of this Harvard psychiatrist going over there, and then
Speaker 4: the the repercussions he got for for dealing with the
Speaker 4: phenomena at all, So that it's a very which you know,
Speaker 4: at some point I read, I reached the point like
Speaker 4: this is this is a feature documentary. There's this You
Speaker 4: can't tell this in a short form or in a
Speaker 4: small way. This is a really big story. And you know,
Speaker 4: I would say, and other people have said it before.
Speaker 4: I know, is just you know, these incidents happening all
Speaker 4: over the globe. Every single country has reports, and if
Speaker 4: just one of those reports is true, it changes everything.
Speaker 4: And there's been tens and thousands of reports going back,
Speaker 4: you know, to the sixties, even before that, fifties and sixties.
Speaker 4: So I think that's part of the drive that I've had.
Speaker 4: It's like, well, this, this is a very important story
Speaker 4: as a whole for us, you know, as a as
Speaker 4: a species on this planet too understand that or to
Speaker 4: to start looking at, well, maybe there's something to all
Speaker 4: this stuff. You know that that if and if there is,
Speaker 4: we really should be paying attention to that because that
Speaker 4: means that there's a higher order species, something with a
Speaker 4: higher level of technology than us, that is interacting with us.
Speaker 4: And then the The real concern for me is, well,
Speaker 4: that means that something else could potentially decide our fate.
Speaker 4: That concerns me, you know, And that's why I feel
Speaker 4: like we should know as much as possible. And I
Speaker 4: hope this subject begins to be taken seriously because it's important.
Speaker 4: It's not just important. It's not the wow wow ufo
Speaker 4: you know, aliens who can I don't even care about that.
Speaker 4: I care about the fact that there is an intelligent
Speaker 4: species that's more evolved than us potentially, uh, that that
Speaker 4: could have a huge effect on our direction as a
Speaker 4: as as us as human beings.
Speaker 1: And we're going to pause here just for a moment.
Speaker 1: We'll be back after a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 2: What it brought to my mind is a clip from
Speaker 2: one of the little girls who was being interviewed, I
Speaker 2: believe by John mac and she said something to the
Speaker 2: effect of the being communicated a message to her. And
Speaker 2: I think it was John that was trying to get
Speaker 2: her to talk more about how the being communicated to her,
Speaker 2: and she ended up saying something that there was a message,
Speaker 2: a very specific message. Do you remember what that was?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah. Several of the children reported when they were
Speaker 4: in close contact with this one being or there was
Speaker 4: another one that reported too, But during that there was
Speaker 4: an intense connection between the kids at the playground and
Speaker 4: the being that approached them. And during that moment and
Speaker 4: that all the kids it was like time just stopped.
Speaker 4: But several of the kids got this uh sort of
Speaker 4: I don't know how it was. They didn't know how
Speaker 4: to explain how it was communicated, but you know, in
Speaker 4: in you and I would know that as telepathy, you know,
Speaker 4: something that was transferred mind to mind. And the message
Speaker 4: was about our own environment. And several not not not
Speaker 4: the majority of the witnesses, but several of them, at
Speaker 4: least a half a dozen, maybe more, because a lot
Speaker 4: of them in the present day are are are not
Speaker 4: They feel a little uh nervous to share that. But
Speaker 4: the message was about what we're what we were doing
Speaker 4: to our planet or what what what our direction was
Speaker 4: with our own environment. I don't know. I wonder about
Speaker 4: wonder about that a little bit. Underwell, as somebody sees
Speaker 4: something traumatic, you tend to think about, you know, particularly
Speaker 4: something from out out of this world that might be
Speaker 4: a response to to a trent. I mean, you may
Speaker 4: think about your own place more I'm just thinking of
Speaker 4: alternative reasons why that would come out or it really happened,
Speaker 4: you know, or it was really communicated to these kids,
Speaker 4: And then the question is why.
Speaker 2: And in the footage Randall, he's you know, I think
Speaker 2: it is doctor Mack and he's saying, you know, repeatedly saying, well,
Speaker 2: did you think about this before? Is this a thought
Speaker 2: you've had before?
Speaker 1: Why?
Speaker 2: Why did you think about this? And he would allow
Speaker 2: for more questions in between, then he would ask her again,
Speaker 2: is this something you were thinking about or that you
Speaker 2: know you've been taught or told, And just repeatedly she's like, no, No,
Speaker 2: I didn't think about it until I got home and afterwards.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And one thing I'd like to go back to
Speaker 1: as we're talking about the kid's accounts is something that
Speaker 1: I know has the interest of a lot of our
Speaker 1: listeners here, and that is that the event as described
Speaker 1: by again these more than sixty school children, has aspects
Speaker 1: that do not match the stereotypical UFO encounter story that
Speaker 1: we have heard. Right, you said there were some unique
Speaker 1: things that occurred and that the kids pretty much universally
Speaker 1: agreed on some of these things. We've also heard some
Speaker 1: reports that there were some small differences in children's accounts.
Speaker 1: But what set this apart in your mind from the
Speaker 1: typical again I hesitate to use the phrase typical, but
Speaker 1: the super familiar, stereotypical UFO encounter story, like what really
Speaker 1: stood out?
Speaker 4: I think what really stood out well. Number one was
Speaker 4: the fact that they showed up at a playground at
Speaker 4: a primary school. It is one big one and sort
Speaker 4: of from all the reports were it seemed to be
Speaker 4: to have approached the playground and observed the children. There
Speaker 4: was no action taken, There was no you know, nobody
Speaker 4: was taken or anything there there you know, it was
Speaker 4: it was almost like an observation that that that I
Speaker 4: find really interesting. The the other thing that's unique is
Speaker 4: that they were all wearing black, like a black skin
Speaker 4: tight suit, these creatures, And there's only I think three
Speaker 4: times in the history of of this phenomena that uh
Speaker 4: that's been reported, So that was unique. The message part
Speaker 4: is not. I mean some of the research I've done
Speaker 4: with other cases, that's not terribly uncommon that people that
Speaker 4: have had encounters with these things get some kind of
Speaker 4: message about our own environment and our own direction as
Speaker 4: a species. So I think, yeah, I mean, those are
Speaker 4: the two big things that stand out for me are
Speaker 4: are where it took place, how it took place, and
Speaker 4: what they were particularly wearing it made it unique. And
Speaker 4: of course the message transmission and all that also.
Speaker 1: Oh and we should point out most importantly not only
Speaker 1: was this on a playground, but this was also and
Speaker 1: this will seem unusual to many people, this was during
Speaker 1: the day, during a school day, I believe was their
Speaker 1: mid morning break at ten am or something.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you for reminding me that. That's what also
Speaker 4: makes it unique.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, very good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it happened at the ten thirty break in the
Speaker 4: morning on a Friday. And yeah, that that also is unique.
Speaker 2: So I want to bring something up here, and it's
Speaker 2: a it's a point of contention that I've seen online.
Speaker 2: I just want to talk about it. Let's let's let's
Speaker 2: just go there, Okay. I have heard some people suggest
Speaker 2: that perhaps this was an elaborate prank by some of
Speaker 2: the teachers because of a few things. Most of the
Speaker 2: teachers were in a meeting at the time, or at
Speaker 2: least they I think they were having a teachers meeting
Speaker 2: of some sort. There was one teacher perhaps outside that
Speaker 2: was manning basically a snack stand kind of thing.
Speaker 4: That's correct.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then it's been positive before that perhaps the
Speaker 2: teachers were having fun with the kids and trying to
Speaker 2: do something in that way, and it's been done before,
Speaker 2: It's been done afterwards where teachers have faked an invasion
Speaker 2: for the kids and then they reveal it later. Really,
Speaker 2: this is just in your mind. Is there any possibility
Speaker 2: that something to that effect occurred that day.
Speaker 4: Of Well, I've seen those reports of teachers at doing
Speaker 4: this sort of fake UFO thing that's that started happening
Speaker 4: I think into in the two thousand and eight, two
Speaker 4: thousand and nine sort of, But the kids were aware
Speaker 4: of it. I mean, it wasn't something they you know,
Speaker 4: the children, the teachers pranked them on. But I don't
Speaker 4: find any I mean I've interview I've talked to all
Speaker 4: the teachers and they were shocked themselves. They didn't know
Speaker 4: how to deal with it. So there's no validity to
Speaker 4: that that. This is none. I mean, I've interviewed all
Speaker 4: the teachers. I have all the teachers interviewed in at
Speaker 4: the time. There's just no way I can even see
Speaker 4: that as a possibility. It's just not there because it
Speaker 4: because mainly because the teachers were shocked. I mean they
Speaker 4: were they didn't believe the kids. They you know, not
Speaker 4: all of them, but many of the teachers initially did
Speaker 4: not believe that the kids until the kid's parents started
Speaker 4: showing up and saying, look, something happened to my kids.
Speaker 4: What happened? You know? And then then it got uh
Speaker 4: you know, taken more seriously by the staff, and they
Speaker 4: head master and and they they were they became really
Speaker 4: convinced that something had occurred. You know, It's it's tough subject.
Speaker 4: I mean, they were all of a sudden, they're all
Speaker 4: the teachers were were put in a position of, Okay,
Speaker 4: these children are reporting this, but we don't believe this,
Speaker 4: and you know, it goes to so I don't I
Speaker 4: don't find any validity to that argument at all. I've
Speaker 4: found nothing there. And I've looked at that, I've looked
Speaker 4: at hoaxes, you know, and you have to I got
Speaker 4: to say, I don't think enough people do this us
Speaker 4: in the UFO field or the unidentified aero phenomena field. Uh,
Speaker 4: you know, you got to look at everything. You know,
Speaker 4: you can't take a report as just the way it is,
Speaker 4: you know, like I looked at everything, like what was
Speaker 4: going on with the teachers, what was going on in
Speaker 4: the country with their military, with you know, what was
Speaker 4: going on in space at the time you got and
Speaker 4: what were what where was the sun rising that day?
Speaker 4: What was the you know at night, what was the
Speaker 4: where was venus? I mean, you all these questions you
Speaker 4: need to ask to do a thorough to get a
Speaker 4: thorough take on something too, And I think it's really important.
Speaker 4: I don't think enough people do that. And the other thing,
Speaker 4: you know, like with the teachers, this these children coming
Speaker 4: to the teachers. Uh, the teachers had a certain worldview
Speaker 4: and this is a lot of things John mac talked
Speaker 4: about and others like that. And this is what really
Speaker 4: this whole phenomena is about, really is that, you know,
Speaker 4: is our worldview. You know that these things aren't supposed
Speaker 4: to exist, so we just they're not they they're not real,
Speaker 4: they're not they don't exist. So the most of the
Speaker 4: teachers were in that worldview, and they were approached by
Speaker 4: the children and being challenged in a in a big
Speaker 4: way from them by saying, no, this is what we saw.
Speaker 4: But the worldview, like for all of us is you know,
Speaker 4: we most of us have this worldview that that you know,
Speaker 4: there's nothing more than intelligent than us, and we like
Speaker 4: to keep that worldview because it makes us feel good,
Speaker 4: makes us continue to want to do things. Uh, But
Speaker 4: there's different world views, like in Africa, people in the
Speaker 4: native populations, that's that's not they don't have the same
Speaker 4: world view. They are open to understanding that yeah, we're
Speaker 4: we're the you know, dominant species here, or we think
Speaker 4: we are, and but there are other other species out
Speaker 4: in this vast ocean that we look at at night
Speaker 4: love stars. So I just think that the world, our
Speaker 4: world views is what's being challenged with this whole phenomena,
Speaker 4: Like it's something we really don't want to look at
Speaker 4: because it challenges our our ego really well.
Speaker 2: You know you This just brings up so much that
Speaker 2: I've been reading recently because of this interview about doctor
Speaker 2: John E.
Speaker 3: Mack.
Speaker 2: And honestly, I didn't know a whole lot about this gentleman.
Speaker 2: And we've discussed before that he he as a PhD
Speaker 2: from the Harvard School of Medicine and he's a psychologist psychoanalyst.
Speaker 2: He is also a self described parapsychologist and has done
Speaker 2: some fascinating work in that field. And for someone with
Speaker 2: such accolades and such an education and just a brilliant
Speaker 2: person to immerse himself in that field that is so
Speaker 2: socially I would say, maligned, maybe socially unaccepted, controversial, controversial
Speaker 2: at least yes, correct. For to have someone like this
Speaker 2: look into this whole phenomena, this one event, and then
Speaker 2: to have that group seek you out to produce a
Speaker 2: documentary on this subject, it's just it lends such credibility
Speaker 2: to it. I don't know. I think that's one of
Speaker 2: the main reasons why I personally am so excited about
Speaker 2: this documentary, not just the resources, but because there is
Speaker 2: this this man who then kind of became an institution.
Speaker 2: Can you tell us a little bit about how like
Speaker 2: you you mentioned something about repercussions with John eMac for
Speaker 2: his beliefs and kind of what we've been talking about here,
Speaker 2: What happened? What were those repercussions?
Speaker 4: I mean, John Mack was he was brilliant and I
Speaker 4: think you know you had won the Pulitzer Prize and
Speaker 4: I believe it was nineteen seventy seven. He was brilliant
Speaker 4: as a psychiatrist, psychoanalyst, and I think what happened, this
Speaker 4: is my take that he got bored with, you know,
Speaker 4: the standard model of looking at a person in a
Speaker 4: therapeutic environment and got very interested in anomalous experiences that
Speaker 4: people didn't, you know, extraordinary experiences that were difficult to believe.
Speaker 4: And I think he was looking at different models of
Speaker 4: psychotherapy to explore the unconscious, the unconscious and he then
Speaker 4: he had dealt with people who had near death experiences
Speaker 4: and witnesses to UFOs or aliens, and and being such
Speaker 4: a high level person and he started the Cambridge Hospital.
Speaker 4: He was, you know, uh a psychiatrist on at the
Speaker 4: Harvard Medical School, a professor, and he started to get
Speaker 4: flack from the university for his looking into these these
Speaker 4: cases and the repercussions. They really went after him. They
Speaker 4: were threatening to take away his tenure and basically fire him,
Speaker 4: which is never in the history of Harvard University been done.
Speaker 4: There's never been a person threatened like that the whole
Speaker 4: entire history of Harvard, and that goes back to the
Speaker 4: late sixteen hundreds. So it was really that was very unique.
Speaker 4: And they you know, it was a whole not a trial,
Speaker 4: but essentially one behind closed doors, and you know, their
Speaker 4: concern was that he was you know, that these patients
Speaker 4: actually had psychological illnesses yet they displayed none of them.
Speaker 4: But that was their angle, that the concern for patients,
Speaker 4: and which is understandably I could totally understand their angle.
Speaker 4: But honestly, my take on it now as I felt
Speaker 4: like they were really trying to tarnish his reputation.
Speaker 1: And intimidate him. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And you know, I he he had lot, you
Speaker 4: know through this whole Harvard inquisition, which was had many
Speaker 4: people involved, including Alan Dershowitz, and you know it's just
Speaker 4: it's a cast of of some famous people, and you
Speaker 4: know that he had lost his circle of friends at Harvard.
Speaker 4: Nobody wanted to be around him, you know, during this time.
Speaker 4: And so I think the Harvard it really achieved a
Speaker 4: goal in sort of just you know, hurting his credibility.
Speaker 4: So it's quite a hero's journey in a way. I
Speaker 4: mean it was the man, a man who was had
Speaker 4: a conviction that these people are are telling the truth.
Speaker 4: You know, different people that are reported, including these children
Speaker 4: in Africa, they're telling the truth, and what does that mean?
Speaker 4: Asking the question of what does that mean? If this
Speaker 4: is the truth and this is not something psychological, what
Speaker 4: does that mean for us as a species?
Speaker 2: And we're gonna take a quick break. We're just gonna pause.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back.
Speaker 1: Regardless of how someone encounters this story or what they
Speaker 1: personally believe, right, the crux of the issue is the following.
Speaker 1: There are things that have yet to be explained about
Speaker 1: this event, which was not that long ago. I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe we're dating ourselves a little bit here, but nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety four is that you know, it's it's the past,
Speaker 1: but it's relatively recent, and there are still things that
Speaker 1: we can find out through rigorous investigation, through on the
Speaker 1: ground interviews, through the work that you are doing. But
Speaker 1: all of it leads us to again the question you
Speaker 1: just positive, which is what does this mean? What does
Speaker 1: this mean for the future? What will humanity overall discover
Speaker 1: from this event? And you know, we haven't even we
Speaker 1: haven't touched on the the other events across the world
Speaker 1: that you have mentioned that you alluded to that have
Speaker 1: some of the same threads running through them, right, So
Speaker 1: this is a question that we at least I don't
Speaker 1: know if you've got something up your sleeve, mat but
Speaker 1: This is a question that we don't have the answer to, Yetta,
Speaker 1: at least us.
Speaker 2: There's some stuff in here, but I don't think it's
Speaker 2: answers to that question though.
Speaker 1: Ah Well, what we would like to do is, I
Speaker 1: guess our next question for the show here then, is
Speaker 1: to ask if you could tell us a little more
Speaker 1: about the state of the documentary as it stands now,
Speaker 1: but what our listeners can do to help and where
Speaker 1: they can learn more about the piece.
Speaker 4: Sure, can I say one thing first?
Speaker 2: Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 4: So during this filming and interviewing, I mean, I've traveled
Speaker 4: to Africa three times and all over Europe finding all
Speaker 4: these witnesses in the United States, Canada, you know, I've
Speaker 4: been approached by several people, you know, dozens and dozens
Speaker 4: of people that have heard I'm doing a movie about
Speaker 4: UFOs and they come and they share their experience with me,
Speaker 4: and you know not and and these are people this
Speaker 4: is what always strikes me. There are people that have
Speaker 4: I mean, they come to me and they say, don't
Speaker 4: tell anybody, because I haven't told anybody, or they've only
Speaker 4: told their immediate family, and they share these stories that
Speaker 4: nobody knows about. They're just they keep it to themselves.
Speaker 4: They're afraid of ridicule, They're afraid of you know, Uh,
Speaker 4: they're afraid of a lot of things to uh to
Speaker 4: be to for it somehow to go public, afraid of
Speaker 4: losing their friends, all kinds of fears. Yet their stories
Speaker 4: are you know, they sound and their feelings express something
Speaker 4: really happened. I just find that heartbreaking in a way
Speaker 4: that we there's this whole culture out there that is
Speaker 4: not being heard, that you don't see at UFO conferences,
Speaker 4: that you don't see anywhere. They've just had these experiences
Speaker 4: and they're keeping it to themselves and that and if
Speaker 4: if it's just considering the number that I've run into
Speaker 4: and just doing the math of how many people there
Speaker 4: has to be like that, uh, is just it's a
Speaker 4: lot of It's a lot of people that could be
Speaker 4: helping us solve this mystery, and there just doesn't seem
Speaker 4: to be enough of a drive from us or our
Speaker 4: media or our culture to really want to find out
Speaker 4: what's going on here. Because I think it's pretty important
Speaker 4: that we that we do try to understand it and
Speaker 4: try to find out more Because as far as I
Speaker 4: want to personally, I want to know what's going on.
Speaker 4: I want to know what situation humanity's in, like, I
Speaker 4: want to know that if there's something out there, I
Speaker 4: really want to know about it. I want to know
Speaker 4: how it can impact me. I want to know what
Speaker 4: I should be afraid of or a need to be
Speaker 4: afraid of. I don't know, I just I or not,
Speaker 4: but I would like as much information as possible. I
Speaker 4: know about all the wildlife that live in the forest
Speaker 4: that I'm in, and I'm very curious, you know, to
Speaker 4: find out a lot about them. If there's something else
Speaker 4: out there, it's it's another form of wildlife just happens
Speaker 4: to be smarter than us. I want to know it's
Speaker 4: my much as possible, particularly because it's smarter than me.
Speaker 4: So I don't know, I just it just strikes me
Speaker 4: that I, you know, I'll be glad when the day comes,
Speaker 4: and it will come when universities have programs that are
Speaker 4: really doing intense research about this, you know, and eliminating
Speaker 4: the Charlatans and whatever the BS stories that are out
Speaker 4: there and getting to the real stories and piecing this
Speaker 4: puzzle together because we need to know.
Speaker 2: Agreed, Okay, Randall, So tell us tell us how we
Speaker 2: can learn more about the Aerial Phenomenon documentary. Where can
Speaker 2: we learn about it? Where can we watch a trailer
Speaker 2: for it? When do you think it's coming out? Just
Speaker 2: tell us everything.
Speaker 4: Okay, So the film we're at a rough cut right now,
Speaker 4: working toward a final. It's it's fantastic. I mean, I
Speaker 4: can't say enough, and it's my I wouldn't usually be that.
Speaker 4: I'm just really excited because it took It's taken a
Speaker 4: long time, but I've done it right. I've gotten some
Speaker 4: of the best people to work on it, and I've got
Speaker 4: an editor that worked with Michael Moore, did Fahrenheit nine
Speaker 4: to eleven, did Siico, and has done other brilliant films.
Speaker 4: So I've gotten really great people to work on it,
Speaker 4: and we're working toward a final. You can check it
Speaker 4: out at Aerial Phenomenon dot com. We have a trailer there,
Speaker 4: and we have a trailer where Dan Aykroyd plugs the
Speaker 4: film and he's very aware of this case and he
Speaker 4: was just wonderful supporting the just trying to get this
Speaker 4: the word about this film out there. But you can
Speaker 4: see quite quite a bit of information on the site.
Speaker 4: We're still taking donations because it's been you know, it's
Speaker 4: been a project from the heart kind of thing, and
Speaker 4: it's been up and down. You know. We get funding
Speaker 4: and then the funding stops, and then I go back
Speaker 4: to work to pay for more filmmaking, more editing. It's
Speaker 4: it's been hard to uh, you know, when you don't
Speaker 4: have the funding right there and you have to play
Speaker 4: all these roles to uh to keep it moving, and
Speaker 4: sometimes the production stops and then get we move ahead again,
Speaker 4: and then it stops again. Because anyway, it's been a
Speaker 4: challenge for sure. But so yeah, we're looking at for
Speaker 4: being at a final within three months. So it's coming.
Speaker 4: It's coming soon. And I think the reaction because the
Speaker 4: other thing, this is not really a film about UFOs
Speaker 4: in a sense. I mean, it is a film about
Speaker 4: this incident, but it's it's a lot also about what
Speaker 4: happens to people, you know, what people go through when
Speaker 4: they have reported something like this and and how it
Speaker 4: sticks with them, and that's it's kind of a lot
Speaker 4: of different things. But it's not your traditional by any
Speaker 4: sense UFO film at all. It's very mainstream as far
Speaker 4: as a story, and there's really a lot about the people,
Speaker 4: you know, not so much about the aliens or the
Speaker 4: wu woo stuff about UFOs, and I kind of think
Speaker 4: that's where the conversation needs to go, is in us
Speaker 4: getting out out sort of out of the wu Woo
Speaker 4: flash like aliens, aliens, alien stage two? Okay, well, you
Speaker 4: know what are we looking at?
Speaker 1: Here?
Speaker 4: Is it? What is it? You know, if it's an
Speaker 4: alien or some other creature from another planet, it's another
Speaker 4: animal basically, you know what I mean. So I think
Speaker 4: it would be I really would like to work toward
Speaker 4: changing the conversation to so we can get to it,
Speaker 4: so he can really get to the heart of heart
Speaker 4: of this matter issue and learn from it, find out
Speaker 4: what it is. And you know, the recent things that
Speaker 4: have happened that came out in the New York Times
Speaker 4: with the military was absolutely fascinating. I don't know if
Speaker 4: you guys aware of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we just did a couple of interviews about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Pentagon Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program, I believe
Speaker 1: with Lewis Selesando. Yeah, that was a that was a
Speaker 1: massive surprise to I think everybody who even who even
Speaker 1: casually follows this sort of news.
Speaker 2: What an about face, you know, there's a dude named
Speaker 2: Jeremy Corbell that we talked to you recently about that.
Speaker 4: Oh I just met him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, fascinating, great, fascinating guy. Uh well, okay, look, Randall, I,
Speaker 2: like many people listening right now, am very excited to
Speaker 2: watch the Aerial Phenomenon. I know Ben is too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll go ahead and also post the trailer that
Speaker 1: you can find when you're done with this podcast. You
Speaker 1: can check it out on our Instagram or Facebook and
Speaker 1: our Twitter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll put that out there now. By the way,
Speaker 2: we are conspiracy stuff at Twitter and Facebook and conspiracy
Speaker 2: stuff show on Instagram. If you're out there and you
Speaker 2: want to, you know, discuss this project further and again,
Speaker 2: go to aeriel that's a r i e. L phenomenon
Speaker 2: dot com.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there you can find more information about the documentary.
Speaker 1: You can watch the trailer, you can see some of
Speaker 1: the news. You can also contact the project directly with questions.
Speaker 1: And you know, one thing that one thing that I
Speaker 1: think everyone listening should absolutely take away from this episode
Speaker 1: is a point that you brought up, Randle, that there
Speaker 1: are so many people that you have met who feel
Speaker 1: that they have experienced something that would that they are
Speaker 1: unable to communicate with the world because of fear of
Speaker 1: social repercussions, right or social stigma. With that, and the
Speaker 1: most one of the most important things to remember here
Speaker 1: is that if you were listening and you feel that
Speaker 1: some sort of event has happened to you, if you
Speaker 1: feel that you do not have a voice regarding this,
Speaker 1: or that you do not have the ability to share it,
Speaker 1: the good news is we exist. Well, the good news
Speaker 1: is that you are. You know that you are not
Speaker 1: existing in isolation. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions,
Speaker 1: of people around the globe who have experienced something that
Speaker 1: they feel they may not be able to explain, and
Speaker 1: it is very important to remember that no person exists
Speaker 1: in isolation. And depending on depending on what people may
Speaker 1: ultimately find out about the aerial finace coming on and
Speaker 1: other sightings of this kind, perhaps our species also is
Speaker 1: not an island and does not exist in isolation. I'm
Speaker 1: waxing a little poetic. I apologize, I apologize.
Speaker 4: I'm glad you said that though. I think that's that's
Speaker 4: really important that people don't feel alone, you know, m
Speaker 4: because it's what the people I've met, it's it's it's
Speaker 4: hard that's what makes it hard, you know. They it
Speaker 4: just sits in themselves alone, and it's yeah, all kinds
Speaker 4: of things can happen from that place.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. So thank you so much Randall for joining
Speaker 2: us today for this and thank you for all the
Speaker 2: work you're doing on you know, this project. We're again,
Speaker 2: we're very excited to see it and we can't wait
Speaker 2: to see how it turns out. And you know, if
Speaker 2: you want to descend us, maybe a screener or something,
Speaker 2: I'm saying, Ben, Ben and I are here and you know.
Speaker 1: You're doing the heart well in all in all seriousness, yes,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time, both on our
Speaker 1: behalf and on behalf of our fellow listeners out there
Speaker 1: in the audience. And if you are listening and thinking
Speaker 1: I have a story to communicate, I would like to
Speaker 1: tell somebody I know something that I haven't shared with
Speaker 1: the world yet. You, of course, can reach out to us.
Speaker 1: We would love to hear from you. You are the
Speaker 1: most important part of this show. Go ahead and send
Speaker 1: us a missive, a communicate on your social media platform
Speaker 1: of choice, or if none of that.
Speaker 2: And that's the end of this classic episode. If you
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