Speaker 1: Look out. The only films to be buried with Hello
Speaker 1: and welcome to films to be buried with. My name
Speaker 1: is Brett Goldstein. I am a comedian and actor, a writer,
Speaker 1: a director, an ice bucket, and I love films. As
Speaker 1: Christina Westover once said, unrequited love is the infinite curse
Speaker 1: of a lonely heart, and odd numbers are the infinite
Speaker 1: curse of all the Star Trek films. I don't know
Speaker 1: if that's true. I mean, I think they used to
Speaker 1: be a rumor, but it's not saying I'd sort of
Speaker 1: bet my life on. But fair enough, Christen, if it's
Speaker 1: that important to you, fair enough, thank you, Thanks for
Speaker 1: joining in. Every week I'm a special guest over. I
Speaker 1: tell them they've died, then I get them to discuss
Speaker 1: their life through the films that meant the most of them.
Speaker 1: Previous guests include Barry Jenkins, Jamila Jamil, Kevin Smith, and
Speaker 1: even bed Pambles. But this week it is the brilliant writer, comedian, producer,
Speaker 1: mobile and director Judd Apatow. Get over to Patreon at
Speaker 1: patreon dot com forward slash Brett Goldstein, where you get
Speaker 1: an extra twenty minutes of chat with Jadd We go Deep,
Speaker 1: we talk beginnings, ending, Stare's a Secret. You also get
Speaker 1: the whole episode uncut and ad free and does a video.
Speaker 1: Check it out over at patreon dot com. Forward Slash
Speaker 1: Brett Goldstein, Ted Lasso season two is available on Apple
Speaker 1: TV Plus, so you can watch that along with season one,
Speaker 1: and you can also watch Super Bob and Soulmates on
Speaker 1: Amazon Prime. In most places, so Jadd Appertow, Jadd Appertow,
Speaker 1: for God's sakes, Jadd Appertow has been involved in one
Speaker 1: form or another impossibly, Like, I mean all of the
Speaker 1: things that you've loved in comedy in the last thirty years,
Speaker 1: I mean all of them. He's pretty much I mean
Speaker 1: all of them, do you know what I mean? Like
Speaker 1: who's involved in an Osanders show, in Freaks and Geeks,
Speaker 1: the forty year Old Virgin This is forty The Gary
Speaker 1: Shandling Diaries, the King of Staten Island, to Crashing to
Speaker 1: Love all the things? I mean, there's too many things,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? It's too much for
Speaker 1: one head to take in. But he'd done them all.
Speaker 1: His work is legendry. It's a real privilege to sit
Speaker 1: and talk to him for this long on the podcast.
Speaker 1: We'd met doing a gig together at the Largo, and
Speaker 1: the wonderful Mark Flanagan told Judd that you have to
Speaker 1: do my podcast, and because Judd is a polite man
Speaker 1: and he was right in front of me, he said yes.
Speaker 1: So I was very lucky that he did. We had
Speaker 1: a really great time. I think this is a lovely
Speaker 1: episode and I really think you're gonna like it. So
Speaker 1: that is it for now. I very much hope you
Speaker 1: enjoy episode one hundred and eighty eight of Films to
Speaker 1: be Buried With. Hello, and welcome to Films to be
Speaker 1: Buried With. It is I Brett Goldstein, and I am
Speaker 1: joined today by a writer, a director, a producer, a documentarian,
Speaker 1: a book man, a stand up a Netflix special changer
Speaker 1: of the gamer, a lover, a fighter, a husband, a father,
Speaker 1: and one of the most influential men in American comedy.
Speaker 1: Please welcome to the show. Can't believe it's here. Could
Speaker 1: you believe it's here? He's really here? Please welcome. It's
Speaker 1: missing John Abatau, WHOA thank you made me feel nice?
Speaker 1: I feel nice now. Well listen, I'm grateful you're doing this.
Speaker 1: Thank you for your time. I actually was making notes
Speaker 1: before this, and you're sort of one of the few
Speaker 1: people have had on where I'm kind of annoyed because
Speaker 1: there's so much in your life and career that I
Speaker 1: want to talk about, and I know there's a limited
Speaker 1: amount of time, and so it's literally like I'm having
Speaker 1: to pick, like what's the bit? What's the bit I
Speaker 1: can ask you about? Because you've done it all and
Speaker 1: you've done significant things a number of times, I don't
Speaker 1: know how that feels for you from a moment by
Speaker 1: moment basis. Do you just feel like, oh, nothing's happened,
Speaker 1: I'm just just a guy in ahead. I feel like
Speaker 1: they have a love for the immemorial reel. Yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: I think that's That's how I look at it. Like
Speaker 1: it's a good montage. It's a good montage, and so
Speaker 1: really that's all you care about in life, is like
Speaker 1: when they cut to the montage, do you have the goods?
Speaker 1: You know that heck of a month's time? Right? You
Speaker 1: go to the chess wax shot and then you go
Speaker 1: to the me bombing on evening in the improv. You know,
Speaker 1: there's all sorts of stuff. Fuck. Well, so you and
Speaker 1: I met at Largo doing a gig. Was very lucky
Speaker 1: to do a gig with Pete Times and you were
Speaker 1: on and you would told me, I mean, can we
Speaker 1: can we talk about stand up for a bit, because yes, please,
Speaker 1: we're much interested in it. You have just written you're
Speaker 1: about to release a new book, Sicker in the Head. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's interviews with comedians, which is what I did when
Speaker 1: I was a kid, just when I wanted to meet comedians.
Speaker 1: It was just an excuse to get near them. It's
Speaker 1: just to ask them how they do it. So the
Speaker 1: first book was maybe half and half interviews I did
Speaker 1: when I was fifteen and new ones, and this one
Speaker 1: is all new ones except John Candy from nineteen eighty four.
Speaker 1: The funny thing is for the new one, I did
Speaker 1: most of it during the pandemic, so I realized that
Speaker 1: everyone was home, so no one could say no to
Speaker 1: me because it's for charity. It goes to A two
Speaker 1: six is free tutoring and literacy charity. So when you
Speaker 1: call someone and you know their home, you know their board,
Speaker 1: and it's for charity, they can't say no. And then
Speaker 1: the interviews were kind of intense and emotional because everyone
Speaker 1: was sitting home thinking about their lives and their journeys.
Speaker 1: So I was able to get people that normally I
Speaker 1: probably couldn't get, like Lin Manuel Miranda and Letterman. I had,
Speaker 1: I mean, so many cool people. Mindy Kaling did it,
Speaker 1: and Nathan Fielder, who you don't hear talk a lot
Speaker 1: about how he does that, and Sasha Baron Cohen and
Speaker 1: just tons of people. So I'm psyched that it's out
Speaker 1: because the first one was the book I wish someone
Speaker 1: wrote when I was a kid. It didn't exist, And
Speaker 1: so I've seen with stick in Ahead a lot of
Speaker 1: people really went through it with a highlighter, and it
Speaker 1: helped them the way doing the interviews helped me. What
Speaker 1: do you think it is? I was suddenly when I
Speaker 1: was reading it, I thank you for my I got
Speaker 1: a chance to read some of it, and it's brilliant
Speaker 1: like the other one. But I was suddenly occurred to me.
Speaker 1: I was like, why does this work so well in
Speaker 1: print when their interviews like what you know? You could equally,
Speaker 1: I guess release the audio as a package or whatever.
Speaker 1: But it's so satisfying to read these things. Do you
Speaker 1: have a theory on that? I don't actually know why
Speaker 1: that is. I don't know, because someone was making fun
Speaker 1: of me. They're like, so, jed, this is like a
Speaker 1: podcast written down. But when I did him as a kid,
Speaker 1: I used to joke it's almost like I was trying
Speaker 1: to invent the podcast. Yeah, because it's what I wanted.
Speaker 1: I wanted a long form interview with Seinfeld if you
Speaker 1: love Seinfeld. In nineteen eighty three, there was no our
Speaker 1: interview with Jerry where he talked about how he did it.
Speaker 1: So I did it for the radio, and that's the
Speaker 1: thing that I wanted. When you write it down, I
Speaker 1: think they work because I'm sharing my life in the conversation.
Speaker 1: It's not just me asking questions. And it's also one
Speaker 1: creative person asking another creative person how they do it,
Speaker 1: and we're both you know, some of it is inside
Speaker 1: baseball of comedy, but a lot of it is emotional
Speaker 1: and why do we want to be funny? Which I'm
Speaker 1: always fascinated by, you know what leads us to feel
Speaker 1: like this is how we want to process the world.
Speaker 1: When we first spike, you would you were doing a
Speaker 1: bit of stand up, but you were doing more a
Speaker 1: sort of Q and I chat and you said to me,
Speaker 1: if it's like I had to share this. I asked
Speaker 1: you if you were planning a new special of what
Speaker 1: you were working on with stand up, and you said,
Speaker 1: I can't find you. Say if you don't mind, Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I said, the pandemic made me confused about my stand
Speaker 1: up point of view because I'm not sure if I'm
Speaker 1: sad or I'm angry or cynical or hopeful. I'm all
Speaker 1: over the place every day, so I can't figure out
Speaker 1: my stance, and I was kind of embarrassed to try
Speaker 1: to just do what I was in the middle of
Speaker 1: when the pandemic started, which is very domestic about my
Speaker 1: life and family and stories from show business, and it
Speaker 1: all felt kind of stupid. I'm slowly trying to see
Speaker 1: if it's okay to, you know, to just just tell
Speaker 1: a funny story about someone that I bumped into, or
Speaker 1: it's something that's happening with my kids moving out of
Speaker 1: the house and empty nesting, but it all felt so unimportant.
Speaker 1: Now that's just in my head. I watch everyone else,
Speaker 1: like you and Pete Homes. They're crushing it. They're great.
Speaker 1: No one is having the mental issue I'm having. But
Speaker 1: I'm about to host the Director's Guild Awards, so I
Speaker 1: have to do stand up at a monologue only in
Speaker 1: front of Spielberg, so there's no pressure to do stand
Speaker 1: up in front of Spike Lee and Steven Spielberg and
Speaker 1: Jane Campio. So now I have to get my shit
Speaker 1: together and I lot. Have you got? I have till
Speaker 1: the middle of March, God, And so I've been going
Speaker 1: out on the stage doing like a DJ Awards monologue
Speaker 1: at comedy clubs. So I have to say to the God,
Speaker 1: I know you're not directors, and you may not understand
Speaker 1: or care about any of this, but I'm going to
Speaker 1: treat you all like you are two hundred directors. And
Speaker 1: it's gone pretty well so far. I'm gaining confidence by
Speaker 1: the day. Is that that date in the diary? Is
Speaker 1: that something that's like a low level of anxiety that
Speaker 1: is residing in your brain at all times? Or is
Speaker 1: it like that I'll be fine when I get to it.
Speaker 1: I think I would be very nervous if I hadn't
Speaker 1: done it a couple of times. This is the third
Speaker 1: time I've done it, so I have a sense of
Speaker 1: the crowd, and I think they're just happy that the
Speaker 1: show doesn't suck, is the truth? You know? So for
Speaker 1: someone who's one of them to get up and talk
Speaker 1: about what it's like to direct, what it's like to
Speaker 1: direct during the pandemic, and all the weird things about,
Speaker 1: you know, having to communicate people to people with a
Speaker 1: mask on you. I mean, you've been through this. It's everything.
Speaker 1: Adams Handler said to me. Shooting a movie during the
Speaker 1: pandemic basically removes every aspect of shooting that was fun.
Speaker 1: You can like kibbits with people and Chad, you know,
Speaker 1: you can't have dinner afterwards, you know when you made it.
Speaker 1: We made a movie called The Bubble that's gonna be
Speaker 1: on Netflix a spring, and it was about the horrors
Speaker 1: of this time and shooting a movie during the pandemic.
Speaker 1: So in the movie, they're trying to shoot a dinosaur
Speaker 1: action movie and it's a bunch of people stuck in
Speaker 1: a house in a hotel in London and the and
Speaker 1: the studios pressuring them to finish this dinosaur movie. And
Speaker 1: it's about the isolation, how everyone loses their mind, and
Speaker 1: so we've all lived that. I just I lived it
Speaker 1: so much that I had to make a movie about it.
Speaker 1: You know, I was having such a meltdown. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I guess I should make a movie about what this
Speaker 1: feels like right now? Yeah, And I ask with you,
Speaker 1: given that you you've sort of done the alder things.
Speaker 1: You've done the right in the stand up, the acting
Speaker 1: that I don't if you've done acting, have you? If
Speaker 1: I've done small things, I'm not very proud of my
Speaker 1: abilities in that arena. But when called upon, sometimes I
Speaker 1: will hurt someone's project by making an attempt. Okay, but
Speaker 1: you do all the things in you And also King
Speaker 1: of Staten Island, which I fucking love. That's a really
Speaker 1: beautiful film. I guess my question is do you know
Speaker 1: what what the thing that takes you to the next
Speaker 1: thing is? Like? Is it an emotional connection to something,
Speaker 1: as in when you're like, I'm going to produce this thing,
Speaker 1: I'm going to direct this thing, I'm going to stand
Speaker 1: up this thing, Like like, do you know what the
Speaker 1: difference is for you that draws you in whatever role
Speaker 1: it is? Well, sometimes it's just a love for comedy
Speaker 1: and certain comedy challenges, like you know, hosting an award
Speaker 1: show with all the celebrities. There is the fantasy of
Speaker 1: every kid who loves comedy. So I'm never going to
Speaker 1: get asked a host the Academy Awards, but I'll get
Speaker 1: like the Producer's Guild or the DJA, so it's like
Speaker 1: a mini version. And you know what, no one sees it.
Speaker 1: I don't let it even stream it anywhere, so I
Speaker 1: get to do that. But a lot of times I
Speaker 1: find after the fact, I realized I made something because
Speaker 1: I was trying to work something out in my own mind.
Speaker 1: So I was attracted to talk about marriage because I
Speaker 1: was trying to figure something out. Or I wanted to
Speaker 1: talk about death and mortality and cancer, and so I
Speaker 1: wrote Funny People. But I'm not exactly sure the specifics
Speaker 1: of it till almost a few years later when I
Speaker 1: watch it and go, oh, that's what I was working out.
Speaker 1: I never realized till later that that's what I was
Speaker 1: working out. Even the King of Staten Island. And I'm
Speaker 1: attracted so many to so many aspects of what Pete's
Speaker 1: story is. And I was very interested in firefighters and
Speaker 1: the idea of sacrifice, that there were people that weren't
Speaker 1: like me. They were in egomaniacs, look going to make
Speaker 1: people laugh and have a showbiz life. They're just willing
Speaker 1: to risk their lives to help other people. I thought,
Speaker 1: that doesn't seem like what I would ever write about,
Speaker 1: so that should be where I should go. I'm interested
Speaker 1: in learning about that. But then later I realized that
Speaker 1: I was also dealing with divorce and step parents and
Speaker 1: feelings that I had as a kid, adjusting trying to
Speaker 1: get along with people, and that there were aspects that
Speaker 1: were very personal for me in terms of like, I
Speaker 1: guess this is a question of ego, I suppose, but
Speaker 1: there's a difference between you've done lots of things where
Speaker 1: you have helped comedians where they're front and stage where
Speaker 1: you've made them starts where you've and I assume you
Speaker 1: have lots of joy in that, and then there's things
Speaker 1: where you do which is more about you specifically or
Speaker 1: more you've written directed it. You've again, are you happy
Speaker 1: in odidized positions or do you ever find yourself being jealous? Well, like,
Speaker 1: I want to be doing that. I want to be Pete. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I definitely certainly have a level deep in me that
Speaker 1: goes you never became Bill Murray, you know, I think
Speaker 1: that we all we all had that fantasy as a kid.
Speaker 1: We'd watch Ghostbusters and want to be a Ghostbuster. Or whatever.
Speaker 1: And I certainly have had to accept that people who
Speaker 1: are on screen are magic. They have a chrisma. They
Speaker 1: why is bonno bono? You know, what's the difference between
Speaker 1: him and just some guy in a local band. And
Speaker 1: people have something that's indefinable and it's what draws us
Speaker 1: to people. And I always think, you know, if they
Speaker 1: have a ten of that, I might have a three,
Speaker 1: and three is kind of entertaining. But it ain't's Jim Carrey,
Speaker 1: you know, it's you know, it's it's not Jerry Lewis.
Speaker 1: And and on some level, I think most people in
Speaker 1: the world have to accept that they're not Johnny Carson.
Speaker 1: They're not walking around, you know, handsome and talented and
Speaker 1: hilarious and everyone's fascinated by them. So yeah, there's definitely moments,
Speaker 1: But I also don't hunger for it enough and never
Speaker 1: did to really try to make that happen. I was
Speaker 1: just as amused, or close to just as amused to
Speaker 1: write like a piece of stand up for somebody like
Speaker 1: Jim Carrey and watch him annihilate in a way I
Speaker 1: knew I would never have the courage to even attempt.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a fearlessness to some of these people,
Speaker 1: to Adam Sandler or Amy Schumer, where when you see
Speaker 1: them do it, you're like, wow, that's just a it's
Speaker 1: another level. It's like Michael Phelps, yeah, versus like a
Speaker 1: high swimmer. Yeah yeah, yeah. I mean about things. But
Speaker 1: maybe one other thing I may ask is, um, you
Speaker 1: also made recently, well maybe not that recently, there's en
Speaker 1: Diaries of Gary Sounding, which I think is a truly
Speaker 1: ordinary piece of work, and if people visitingly have not
Speaker 1: seen it, I very much suggest you do. Like it's
Speaker 1: a very deep dive into your late friend, but it
Speaker 1: goes through his diaries. It's incredibly intimate, and it's very
Speaker 1: sad and very moving and real and honest and deep.
Speaker 1: And I wondered for you making that and going through
Speaker 1: his diaries and stuff, how much of it was. Like
Speaker 1: there's a level of kind of intimacy to that film
Speaker 1: that I think is rare, where it almost feels too much.
Speaker 1: It almost feels like, I don't know if we should
Speaker 1: be seeing this, you know what I mean? If so personal?
Speaker 1: And I wonder how that was for you making it well,
Speaker 1: making it was a process of grieving, because you know,
Speaker 1: Gary was a mentor to me, and I think in
Speaker 1: a way, until he died, I didn't really realize how
Speaker 1: much of an impact he had on me. It just
Speaker 1: felt like such a massive loss. And I was putting
Speaker 1: together these little short video montages for his memorial service,
Speaker 1: which I put together and then I quickly thought, oh,
Speaker 1: there's an amazing documentary in this footage, and it was
Speaker 1: hard to make. It took me months before I could
Speaker 1: really listen to his voice and listen to all the podcasts.
Speaker 1: It all just made me so sad, and I had
Speaker 1: an idea of what I thought some of his life
Speaker 1: was about, and I didn't know if I was correct,
Speaker 1: because it kept feeling like it was about the loss
Speaker 1: of his brother when he was a little kid and
Speaker 1: how his family handled it, which was by not really
Speaker 1: talking about it, and it forced him to internalized so
Speaker 1: much and it led to a lot of issues in
Speaker 1: relationships and trust issues. But it was a guess. And
Speaker 1: then right near the end of the process, I opened
Speaker 1: up a diary that I hadn't found before, and there
Speaker 1: was a letter to his brother that basically said everything
Speaker 1: that I thought it was, and he said just what
Speaker 1: profound effect that his brother had on him his entire
Speaker 1: life and he says, I'll see you on the other side.
Speaker 1: It was a long letter. I put a little piece
Speaker 1: of it in the documentary and I felt like Gary
Speaker 1: wanted something like this to be out there, but he
Speaker 1: didn't hadn't figured it out in stand up and even
Speaker 1: in thinking about documentaries, Gary was trying to crack the
Speaker 1: code on this, and to me, it felt like finishing
Speaker 1: up a project that he had started. That this is
Speaker 1: what he would want you to take from his life.
Speaker 1: He would want you to learn from the messiness of
Speaker 1: his life. You know, he leaned Buddhists, and you know
Speaker 1: there's a thing in Buddhism, you know, use everything for
Speaker 1: the path, right, use everything as a lesson. And although
Speaker 1: Gary was very private in life, I thought now that
Speaker 1: he's gone, he would want people's lives to get better
Speaker 1: as a result of him having led this life. Although
Speaker 1: I could be wrong, he would be furious. We'll never know. Well,
Speaker 1: it feels like I really I watched that film and
Speaker 1: I thought, this, it feels like an act of love,
Speaker 1: like it's a it's a real it's a love letter
Speaker 1: to a man. But it was a very even handed.
Speaker 1: It isn't a well I don't know if this is
Speaker 1: the right word had geography. Yeah, it's not. It's not
Speaker 1: meant to just kiss his ass and say he's the greatest.
Speaker 1: Because Gary was wonderful and giving and also a terror
Speaker 1: at times, and there were people he couldn't forgive. He
Speaker 1: was very hard on Bob Sagett. You know, they had
Speaker 1: a falling out when Gary sued their mutual manager, and
Speaker 1: Bob Saget made a joke to a newspaper where he said,
Speaker 1: I'm going to sue him too because I need a Porsche,
Speaker 1: and that really hurt Gary's feelings in a way. He
Speaker 1: never made up with him the rest of his life
Speaker 1: because he thought that the joke made Gary look like
Speaker 1: he was just in it for the money and not
Speaker 1: for the justice of dealing with having been wronged by
Speaker 1: the manager. And Gary took it way too far. It
Speaker 1: was just way too far. Bob was in this terrible
Speaker 1: situation where he was typed with Gary and tight with
Speaker 1: his manager, and his manager was really there for him,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure Bob just nervously didn't know what to do.
Speaker 1: And Gary, even as a Buddhist, even as a person
Speaker 1: who should think old Dharma's dreams and nothing is really
Speaker 1: that important. He held a grudge and that's what the
Speaker 1: movie's about. It's not saying that he's perfect. Sarah Silverman said,
Speaker 1: Gary needed Zen. He needed this. It wasn't that he
Speaker 1: was zen. He needed Zen. Yeah. Wow, yeah, absolutely fascinated.
Speaker 1: But we're doing another one now about George Carlin. I
Speaker 1: was really a two part documentary with my partner Michael Bonfiglio.
Speaker 1: And and it's so different also because I wasn't friends
Speaker 1: with George Carlin. So is it easier is it easier
Speaker 1: to be more to just God? I was kind I
Speaker 1: couldn't capture it because I know him. But his daughter,
Speaker 1: Kelly Carlin has, you know, done a lot of interviews
Speaker 1: with us, and she's a big part of it and
Speaker 1: one of the producers. And we're just finishing it up
Speaker 1: and it's but it's very very different life, but an
Speaker 1: equally deep dive. And then ultimately it's about almost the
Speaker 1: prophecy of his stand up everything that we're going through today.
Speaker 1: He had a bit about twenty years ago. Yeah, can
Speaker 1: I ask you one more thing? And then I promise
Speaker 1: we'll talk about films. I'm curious again, when you look
Speaker 1: at your career, you made a load of amazing stuff
Speaker 1: that wasn't necessarily successful. You had a period of sort
Speaker 1: of stuff that people love that didn't make money or
Speaker 1: was it considered yeah, not successful. There was a whole
Speaker 1: period of that. Then you hit big. Basically, my question
Speaker 1: is the stuff you made when you weren't as successful,
Speaker 1: if I may, is really really good in your head?
Speaker 1: Was there any difference between what you did before and
Speaker 1: after let's call it big six says, or is it
Speaker 1: just luck and timing? It's hard to say. I mean,
Speaker 1: hopefully I'm getting better, but there are things you do
Speaker 1: when you're young because you don't know any better, and
Speaker 1: that's why they're good. So we did The Cable Guy,
Speaker 1: and at the time, because it was a dark comedy,
Speaker 1: it was considered a disappointment. But yet on the Super
Speaker 1: Bowl there's a Cable Guy commercial. And we did that
Speaker 1: movie in nineteen ninety six, so you know, so it's
Speaker 1: twenty six years later that character is alive enough in
Speaker 1: the culture that it's a Super Bowl commercial. And I
Speaker 1: remember Carry Shanding was friends with Warren Baty and Cable
Speaker 1: Guy wasn't doing well and you got really bad reviews,
Speaker 1: and we were surprised because we thought people would appreciate
Speaker 1: that we were taking all these risks creatively. And Warren
Speaker 1: Baty said to me, you don't know if a movie
Speaker 1: is good or means anything to people for ten years
Speaker 1: after it comes out. Then you'll know if they're still
Speaker 1: talking about it, then you'll know where it really landed.
Speaker 1: Like Harold and Maude was a big bomb when it
Speaker 1: came out, and so the fact that twenty six years
Speaker 1: later people think it's funny enough that they wanted to
Speaker 1: talk about and the Blu ray comes out and there's
Speaker 1: anniversaries of the movie. So but still it's a lesson
Speaker 1: because you still and now you are making a movie.
Speaker 1: We don't really even know how to make a movie,
Speaker 1: and so we're we're doing all sorts of crazy things
Speaker 1: that it's still debatable if they were the right choices
Speaker 1: or not too light, too dark, you know what are
Speaker 1: we saying? But I think that movie it was about
Speaker 1: losing your mind due to reliance on gadgets, you know,
Speaker 1: that is was the point, like I had literally and
Speaker 1: he says, you know, let's kill the babysitter. That's the
Speaker 1: end of the movie, and him jumping to land on
Speaker 1: the satellite dish it doesn't work, he doesn't shut the
Speaker 1: satellite dish down, but there is that moment where everyone's
Speaker 1: TV goes out and then someone just picks up a
Speaker 1: book and reads a book. I beat you given. Kyle
Speaker 1: Gas from Acious Day is the one that reads the book.
Speaker 1: But that was, you know, the point of the movie.
Speaker 1: And then Freaks and Geeks, you know, was Paul Fiegs's vision,
Speaker 1: and we all tried to make a contribution about what
Speaker 1: happened to us in our childhoods in it. And for me,
Speaker 1: I always think, I don't know why that came out
Speaker 1: so well, That there was some strange kismid or you know,
Speaker 1: magic to that that we were just really passionate about it,
Speaker 1: you know, and obviously Paul had a very clear idea
Speaker 1: what he wanted to do, and I always thought, well,
Speaker 1: at least that happened, you know, and then anything I
Speaker 1: did after it, it's still it's still people still talk
Speaker 1: about it. It's still yeah, and it's like it's like
Speaker 1: we didn't even know what we had never done an
Speaker 1: hour TV show. But afterwards, I always thought, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: treat every project like the thing after the great thing
Speaker 1: that worked, So like I'm allowed to take a big
Speaker 1: swing because Freaks and Geeks worked, so it's okay if
Speaker 1: I fail on the next one. And I've done that
Speaker 1: for every project since Freezing Geeks, because I thought, oh, well,
Speaker 1: that's our that's our Sergeant Pepper. So at least we
Speaker 1: did one thing amazing in our whole careers, and everything
Speaker 1: else can be like we might do it again. But
Speaker 1: if we don't, it's actually okay because somehow that happened.
Speaker 1: And that's just a mental trick for me not to
Speaker 1: put too much pressure on myself. So I really allow
Speaker 1: myself to fail every time. I don't want to be safe.
Speaker 1: That's the key, goad. I've forgotten to tell you something,
Speaker 1: and I feel like an idiot because we've been talking
Speaker 1: for about twenty minutes and I probably should have said
Speaker 1: it at the beginning. And I don't even know how
Speaker 1: you can take this. But I'll just say it and
Speaker 1: we'll I guess we'll deal with the phone out afterwards.
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I just have to say you've died.
Speaker 1: You're dead. Oh man, shit, I thought that would happen
Speaker 1: at some point. Yeah, what happened? How did you die?
Speaker 1: I was walking down the stairs in the middle of
Speaker 1: the night because I realized I didn't bring the dogs
Speaker 1: in and a cat was on one of the steps,
Speaker 1: and when my foot hit the cat, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: don't step on the cat. And then I just fell
Speaker 1: backwards and wiped out, and and that's how I died,
Speaker 1: trying not to hurt my cat. And I have four cats,
Speaker 1: like I don't need four. I could have three cats,
Speaker 1: but my instinct was to care about the cat more
Speaker 1: than me. I loved as a Honeywood screenwright set, You
Speaker 1: died saving the cat. YEA thought about that? Is that
Speaker 1: is correct? That is a perfect death. Do you worry
Speaker 1: about death? Yes? I'm a very very bad on death.
Speaker 1: My parents weren't religious. They never talked about religion ever,
Speaker 1: and there was no discussion of the afterlife ever, which
Speaker 1: has left me with a gaping hole. And so I'm
Speaker 1: very very interested in Buddhism and the idea of accepting it,
Speaker 1: accepting everything, like there is no time. My body lives
Speaker 1: in time, but I do not live in time. But
Speaker 1: then I never really fully believe it. But I'm trying.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to have something, but I generally I don't
Speaker 1: have a good enough answer that lets me sleep well
Speaker 1: at night. So what I'm also trying to do is
Speaker 1: accept my own death. So like when I'm on a
Speaker 1: plane and I take off, I don't like try to live.
Speaker 1: I always say the same thing, like that was a
Speaker 1: pretty good ride. I guess that was it, And then
Speaker 1: I get less nervous, and I think in life, that's
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to do, to just go like, okay,
Speaker 1: that was enough. So you're treating everything like like you
Speaker 1: treat freaks and geeks like the next project. The next day.
Speaker 1: I had a pretty good day. So now it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter what happens if I die good exactly. That's the
Speaker 1: only way I think to feel a little bit better.
Speaker 1: You know. I really like that. That makes sense to me.
Speaker 1: And do you think anything happens when you die? You
Speaker 1: know ticknan Han who is the big Buddhist monk that
Speaker 1: a lot of people read his books like pieces every stuff.
Speaker 1: He has all these amazing books and he just says,
Speaker 1: I'm not dead, like I'm in you, I'm in your
Speaker 1: thoughts every time you breathe, I'm there, I'm in the trees,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm the leaves. And I think that's a beautiful
Speaker 1: idea that doesn't work at all for me to feel better. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't want to. I don't want to be in
Speaker 1: a leaf. Okay, I get it, I get what that means.
Speaker 1: We're all energy, we're all changing and moving constantly, but
Speaker 1: I would like to be here. I don't want to
Speaker 1: be in a cricket. I don't want to be like
Speaker 1: a piece of you know, some sort of living fungus
Speaker 1: in dirt. None of that feels good to me. So
Speaker 1: I don't know. But someone said to me once, you
Speaker 1: have to love the mystery, and so that's what I'm
Speaker 1: trying to do. I'm trying to love the mystery because
Speaker 1: I think Pete Homes has an incredible bit about it.
Speaker 1: I'm paraphrasing and doing it wrong, but he basically says,
Speaker 1: people talk about like, how could there be a heaven?
Speaker 1: And Pete said, well, how can there be this? And
Speaker 1: we're on a planet moving twenty thousand miles an hour
Speaker 1: and we don't fall off of it? Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: like he has an amazing bit, which I think actually
Speaker 1: is true. Who who knows? Well, I know, I'm glad,
Speaker 1: you know, don't worry about it. It's actually I think
Speaker 1: you're gonna like it. There's a heaven, straight up heaven God,
Speaker 1: and it's it's filled with your favorite thing. What's your
Speaker 1: favorite thing? I guess it's movies, right, I guess we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about movies, can baby, unless you want
Speaker 1: to change the format. I'm ready to get that. Okay.
Speaker 1: It's they're very excited to see you in heaven. They're
Speaker 1: all they're all big fans of all of your work,
Speaker 1: but they want to talk about your life. They want
Speaker 1: to talk about your life through film. And the first
Speaker 1: thing they ask you is, what's the first film you
Speaker 1: remember seeing? John at the first film? I have a
Speaker 1: memory of watching what's a movie called The Phantom Tollbooth,
Speaker 1: and it was I believe it was like real people
Speaker 1: and at some point they went through like a toll
Speaker 1: booth and it became animated. Correct. I remember this film.
Speaker 1: I don't remember much more about it. I have located
Speaker 1: it at times where I could watch it, but have
Speaker 1: made some choice not to watch it because it's like
Speaker 1: so magical in my mind. But that that's my first
Speaker 1: memory of a movie. I mean, you know, my family
Speaker 1: as a kid would buy the first like VHS tapes,
Speaker 1: so right when it was invented, we had the VCR,
Speaker 1: you know, mid seventies, and we only really had about
Speaker 1: like ten or twelve movies. You know. It really was
Speaker 1: like Godfather Part one and two, Annie Hall, French Connection,
Speaker 1: ten and The Pink Panther. I mean, so for a
Speaker 1: while there was like six and then eight and our
Speaker 1: whole life was those movies. So it was like a
Speaker 1: little kid, like a little kid, you know, ten eight,
Speaker 1: I'm like watching The Godfather a lot. Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: all the Woody Allen movies. You know, we all feel
Speaker 1: bad talking about Woody Allen these days, but truly that
Speaker 1: was just the heavy rotation was all those movies at
Speaker 1: that time up through Manhattan. Who was what we would watch?
Speaker 1: Are You and ninety Child? I have an older brother
Speaker 1: and a younger sister, but behaved like an only child
Speaker 1: a fair amount, sat alone a fair amount. So so
Speaker 1: you always have found a tote. If at him on
Speaker 1: TV is your first memory of it? No, it was
Speaker 1: in the the Yeah, and did you think I want
Speaker 1: I want in on this? I don't think I ever
Speaker 1: really thought I wanted in on movies. I wanted it
Speaker 1: on stand up. That's the strange part about me. I
Speaker 1: didn't really make a Movie's adjustment. Till I was in
Speaker 1: my twenties, I didn't pay any attention to movies as
Speaker 1: a kid, like I wonder what Len's Coppola is using
Speaker 1: on this. I didn't care at all. I liked movies,
Speaker 1: but I didn't think about being a director ever. I
Speaker 1: didn't think about writing them ever. Really, I just thought
Speaker 1: I'd love to be in that world of the National Lampoon,
Speaker 1: people in this Saturday Night Live, people like stripes. I'd
Speaker 1: like somehow to be in that. I don't know how
Speaker 1: it happens, and I want to be friends with those people.
Speaker 1: I want to have a group like that. But I
Speaker 1: don't think I had a clear vision. And I wanted
Speaker 1: to be on stage like Jeff Altman or Jerry Seinfeld
Speaker 1: or Gilbert Godfrey. That was the dream, to be a
Speaker 1: stand up comedian. Then later friends would get successful and
Speaker 1: suddenly they'd be like, should we try to write a movie?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, yeah, I went to college for that.
Speaker 1: I think I did. I did eighteen months of screenwriting
Speaker 1: at USC. I think I know the formats. I remember
Speaker 1: I sold a movie pitch when I was very young,
Speaker 1: and then it seemed like, oh, they bought it. They
Speaker 1: like it. I went downstairs to a bookstore and bought
Speaker 1: how to write a screenplay, and then the people I
Speaker 1: had pitched it too walked into the bookstore and I
Speaker 1: had to hide that I was by the book. You
Speaker 1: should have just signed it. I'm just signing this. I am.
Speaker 1: What's the what's the film that scared you? Demise? Do
Speaker 1: you like being scared? You've never made a horror I tried.
Speaker 1: I've tried to write some horror. I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's my move because I really have made some attempts
Speaker 1: to produce and help with heart, I've never really assisted well.
Speaker 1: Bill Hayter was writing a horror movie before years before,
Speaker 1: a train Wreck, and it was a great idea. It
Speaker 1: really was funny. But I don't think I had the
Speaker 1: chops in the world of horror to give the appropriate
Speaker 1: guidance to get it to where it was shootable. But
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not like a big fan of horror
Speaker 1: because I don't love being in the state of terror.
Speaker 1: I will watch it. I love what Jordan Peel's doing,
Speaker 1: and I've seen the fair amount of it, and my
Speaker 1: kids like it, and they would they'll make me watch it.
Speaker 1: But it's not where I go to for fun. I
Speaker 1: actually like a scary movie more than a violent horror movie,
Speaker 1: so I'm not attracted to like chopping people up. But
Speaker 1: if there's like a movie in someone said, like it's
Speaker 1: really scary, like bab A Duke, I'm all about the
Speaker 1: Baba Duke. That that kind of thing I like a lot.
Speaker 1: But the movie is a Kid. That scared me the
Speaker 1: most was probably The Fog, the original version of The Fog,
Speaker 1: and also when a stranger is calling, because that idea
Speaker 1: of like the call it's coming from inside the house,
Speaker 1: that freaked me out. But the movie The Fog had
Speaker 1: He's like, I don't remember. It was like pirates or
Speaker 1: something something coming through the fog into the town to
Speaker 1: murder everyone. I'm sure I'm getting all the details wrong. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: the FuG comes in and people like guys are in
Speaker 1: it like from the past. I don't know if they
Speaker 1: were pirates they might have been saying this, but yeah,
Speaker 1: they're not happy. They're not happy. But What a Stranger
Speaker 1: Calls was the first one where I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, Yeah, when a Stranger was amazing. I as
Speaker 1: amazing to string an hour and a half film out
Speaker 1: of the concept he's in the house. Yes, the COVI
Speaker 1: is coming from the hats and it's like they'd make
Speaker 1: it last. It was that Carol Kane was in there. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: And I also was really scared. Like the scariest kind
Speaker 1: of movie thing was in Woody Allen Movies. He talked
Speaker 1: about his fear of death and he had a little
Speaker 1: boy and he's just like, well, how if the if
Speaker 1: the if the universe expands, you know, why does it
Speaker 1: a break apart or you know, there was a lot
Speaker 1: of what's the point of living type jokes and there's
Speaker 1: a little kid watching way too much of that. It
Speaker 1: planted seeds of terror inmate. That's interesting. Well about crying,
Speaker 1: what's the film that made you cry? As? Are you
Speaker 1: a crying? I love to cry. I'm a sucker. I'll
Speaker 1: cry during a commercial, I'll cry randomly during an you'll
Speaker 1: cry in life in public in like you're not shy
Speaker 1: about it, right, yeah, I'm okay. I mean I won't
Speaker 1: hold it in in the setting where it is appropriate.
Speaker 1: I mean, Terms of endearment is just a cry fast
Speaker 1: you know, the scenes near the end with Debor Winger
Speaker 1: of the hospital and then at the very end Jack
Speaker 1: Nicholson is take care of the boy at the funeral,
Speaker 1: and then he walks into his house and he says,
Speaker 1: you want to see my pool. And there's something about
Speaker 1: it that just makes you all that this man who
Speaker 1: was all about himself, was so self involved cares about
Speaker 1: this kid. And I remember I asked James Brooks about
Speaker 1: that scene and I said, it's just such a magical grace.
Speaker 1: Note at the end of this story, how did that happen?
Speaker 1: As that improvised And he said, you know, we were
Speaker 1: going to shoot the funeral scene. And I said to
Speaker 1: everyone on the movie, there is a Rothgo museum where
Speaker 1: we are, I know if they were in Dallas or
Speaker 1: in Texas, and you should go look at these paintings.
Speaker 1: And I guess he was trying to get people in
Speaker 1: the spirit of of mourning for the funeral and you
Speaker 1: should go there to prepare. And he said, no one
Speaker 1: went but Nicholson. Wow. Yeah, and thus you get let
Speaker 1: me show you in my pool. But you know, ending
Speaker 1: a movie on a very small gesture of kindness, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I found very very powerful, and for some
Speaker 1: reason I cried during the last twenty minutes of pun
Speaker 1: Drunk Love, A just ball like I can't stop crying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I connect to it so much, and you know,
Speaker 1: I lived without him Sandler, and when he was making
Speaker 1: the movie, he's like, I'm kind of doing an impression
Speaker 1: of you and my brother and I would watch the
Speaker 1: movie and I could see like what he's making fun of,
Speaker 1: which at core was like my insecurity that he observed
Speaker 1: when we lived together when we were in our early
Speaker 1: twenties and I was just like terrified around women. And
Speaker 1: I there's a funny moment where he's like talking about
Speaker 1: he's on a date and he's trying to explain something
Speaker 1: funny a DJ said, and he's just bombing at the table,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, that's like my entire early twenties. So psychically,
Speaker 1: I felt so connected to the loneliness of that character
Speaker 1: that I would just lose my mind sobbing watching the
Speaker 1: end of it, because I was happy he found love,
Speaker 1: even though he seems someone crazy and broken. It seemed well,
Speaker 1: I think, I don't know what it was on. Maybe
Speaker 1: it was on the Pete Homes podcast What was It
Speaker 1: with You? I don't know where James Brooks was talking
Speaker 1: about the end of As Good as It Gets and
Speaker 1: how that was just sort of made up, just improvised.
Speaker 1: They were trying to find an ending they did. I
Speaker 1: think they had like three nights of just kind of
Speaker 1: playing around and then I think he just shouted kiss
Speaker 1: her from behind the camera and I think he said
Speaker 1: he'll do it better next time or whatever exactly that
Speaker 1: line is, and that's the line in the film, and
Speaker 1: he's it was an improvisation from Nicholson. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: it was like a kind of genuine moment of the
Speaker 1: kids wasn't great, I'll do it better next time, and
Speaker 1: it was like that works for this. Yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: the end of the graduate. Can I tell you something
Speaker 1: nice about that? Please? I was on the set one
Speaker 1: of those nights. N tell me. Owen Wilson, I believe,
Speaker 1: was a co produce on that movie. James Brooks was
Speaker 1: one of the producers of Bottle Rocket, and he he
Speaker 1: hired Owen to, you know, be someone that he turned
Speaker 1: to to be part of the creative discussion of the movie.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure exactly what ohen services were, but he was,
Speaker 1: you know, part of the creative team on that movie.
Speaker 1: And I went to visit the set the night they
Speaker 1: were shooting at no way I was. I wasn't really
Speaker 1: wearing the headphones at the monitor with mister Brooks. I
Speaker 1: was very far away, just terrified, but I was there.
Speaker 1: And James Brooks is the person that you know, I've
Speaker 1: always learned so much from, you know, what he did
Speaker 1: in broadcast news and all, so much movies, intelligion, in
Speaker 1: the Simpsons and yeah, it's really the thing that I
Speaker 1: would try to be very aware of is the humanity
Speaker 1: underneath the comedy. And he always talks about that you
Speaker 1: have a responsibility to the characters you create. I love
Speaker 1: thinking about it that way, Like they exist, then you
Speaker 1: have to do right by them. You can't be lazy.
Speaker 1: You have to come through God. I really like that.
Speaker 1: Tell me this, what is the film that you love?
Speaker 1: People don't really like it. It's not critically acclaimed, but
Speaker 1: you don't care what anyone says. You love it unconditionally,
Speaker 1: John Apata, What is it? Well, the movie that I
Speaker 1: like that maybe not everyone loves. I remember when I
Speaker 1: was a kid, Caddyshack came out and it got two
Speaker 1: and a half stars in New York Newsday. It was
Speaker 1: the first time I saw a movie that I worship
Speaker 1: get a bad review and where I understood that, oh
Speaker 1: maybe reviewers aren't always correct. Yeah, and that was the
Speaker 1: abuse of meatballs, and Caddyshack was a big thing. There
Speaker 1: is a movie that makes me laugh so hard. Not
Speaker 1: to keep talking about Sandler, but Jack and Jill makes
Speaker 1: me laugh so hard. I don't know where people think
Speaker 1: it's it stands in the cannon of Sandler. But I
Speaker 1: brought my kids to the premiere. I've never laughed harder.
Speaker 1: I was just wall to wall, losing my mind. And again,
Speaker 1: I think the culture caught up to it with the
Speaker 1: Pacino stuff and the doughnut commercial and all that um
Speaker 1: Doug Cacino. But my kids kept looking at me like
Speaker 1: what is wrong with you? And what was making me
Speaker 1: laugh the most was I could see in Adam's eyes
Speaker 1: the glee he was getting from doing it. There was
Speaker 1: just a joy and playing the female part that it
Speaker 1: made me giggle so hard because every choice he made
Speaker 1: I would imagine him thinking of how to do it.
Speaker 1: So I was having a multi level just ridiculous laugh
Speaker 1: fast watching it. And also it's it's it's so proud
Speaker 1: to just go I'm gonna do anything to make you laugh.
Speaker 1: That is a perfect answer I found the same way
Speaker 1: about That's My Boy, which yes, and I was very
Speaker 1: badly received, and fuck it's funny. I mean we laughed.
Speaker 1: I mean, say what you like, I was laughing. People
Speaker 1: don't realize how hard it is to just try to
Speaker 1: make people piss their pants to try to figure out
Speaker 1: what those levers are. That gets you to a place
Speaker 1: where you really laugh hard and you're shocked and you
Speaker 1: it just gets you in a mel Brooks riotous way.
Speaker 1: You know, that's like my favorite thing when people are
Speaker 1: just going, I'm going to try to destroy you right now,
Speaker 1: Like I'm so excited to see Jackass forever because I
Speaker 1: know what's coming. I know I'm going to be so happy.
Speaker 1: What is the film that you used to love but
Speaker 1: you voiced it recently and now you don't like it?
Speaker 1: But that can be for personal reasons or whatever it
Speaker 1: might be. Author author go On Alpaccino as a writer,
Speaker 1: Diane Cannon, A lot of kids is like he has
Speaker 1: a lot of kids, al Paccino. They all have the
Speaker 1: manner of David Krumholtz as a young actor. But as
Speaker 1: a kid, I kind of love that movie and I
Speaker 1: watched it again and I thought maybe as a kid,
Speaker 1: I like thought I was like being sophisticated with an
Speaker 1: adult movie, but maybe not the master work. Now I'm
Speaker 1: not saying it's not solid, but in my mind as
Speaker 1: a kid, I felt like I'm smart. I like author, author,
Speaker 1: it's a real time I get what's the film that
Speaker 1: means the mice to you. Not necessarily the film itself
Speaker 1: is any good, but the experience you had around seeing
Speaker 1: the film that would always my kids special to you.
Speaker 1: You know, I went and saw Diner with my mom
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, and you know, my mom
Speaker 1: was no longer with us, and my parents got divorced,
Speaker 1: and you know, she moved away and she was working
Speaker 1: as a waitress at a diner in the Hampton's and
Speaker 1: she was very upper middle class and was really bummed
Speaker 1: that she had to do that right, and I was
Speaker 1: proud of her. I thought it was cool, like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, you're just working hard to take care of yourself.
Speaker 1: And she was really bummed. But it was so nice
Speaker 1: and funny and people probably loved her as a waitress,
Speaker 1: but really the last person in the world you would
Speaker 1: think of who would have to support herself in that way.
Speaker 1: And she took me to see diner, like after she
Speaker 1: worked and she fell asleep the entire time, and I
Speaker 1: just remember watching Diner and my mom's just exhausted. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to make a living. But it was for me,
Speaker 1: even though she had no gas in the tank, took
Speaker 1: me to dinner. How well be you at the time,
Speaker 1: I was probably fourteen or fifteen, so you stayed, we go,
Speaker 1: Dad in your mom maybe the ways that what happened, yeah,
Speaker 1: if I may ask, And that wasn't something that happened.
Speaker 1: So it was all very It was all very traumatic.
Speaker 1: But when I think of moments where my mom was
Speaker 1: really trying to be there for me, you know, that's
Speaker 1: a thing. And then that became a movie that influenced
Speaker 1: me an enormous because Barry Levinson, you know, he's a
Speaker 1: great storyteller, and he told personal stories about his childhood,
Speaker 1: about his friendships, and I think that he's much more
Speaker 1: influential than people realize that all of this Tarantino speak
Speaker 1: and signfeld that a lot of the earliest incarnations of
Speaker 1: of that was created by Barry Levinson. In Dinner, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, that's where we saw just people talking about
Speaker 1: a roast beef sandwich and Paul Reiser's you know, asking
Speaker 1: who's better mathis or Sinatra? And and he used comedians,
Speaker 1: you know, he had Paul Reiser and he let him improvise,
Speaker 1: which I was very influenced by, and I thought, wow,
Speaker 1: Paul Riiser wrote most of his lines. That's incredible. But
Speaker 1: it made it so real to how people talk when
Speaker 1: they when they hang out, and think later movies and
Speaker 1: TV did that, but I can't really think of places
Speaker 1: that did it as well before Diner and It's got
Speaker 1: and it was see like it's not for nothing as
Speaker 1: in there's that incredible. I think it's one of like
Speaker 1: the all time great scenes with Daniel Sten and Ellen
Speaker 1: Barkin where he's saying, you never asked me about the
Speaker 1: B sides of all these records. You never asked me
Speaker 1: about the B sides. And it's, you know, on the surface,
Speaker 1: it's a funny conversation about I care about stuff you
Speaker 1: don't care about, but really it's about their marriage. It's
Speaker 1: a it's an amazing bit of writing that like, you
Speaker 1: never asked me about the B sides. I don't give
Speaker 1: a shit. She's like, what if I care? I don't
Speaker 1: care about the B side? Yeah, And the sport the
Speaker 1: sports test. Yeah, Steve Gudenberg makes his fiance take a
Speaker 1: test and he won't marry her if she doesn't know
Speaker 1: everything about sports. It's so good. I didn't know that
Speaker 1: about your your mum, And it's I mean, let's explained
Speaker 1: all the things that you've been asking the question of
Speaker 1: why do you do comedy. It's like, well, I'll get
Speaker 1: it exactly. Yeah, at all, at all sides coming together,
Speaker 1: what's the film that you must relate it to? I
Speaker 1: mean I related to Fast Times at Ridgemond High as
Speaker 1: a kid. I liked seeing the hierarchy of the high
Speaker 1: school right when we did Facey Gigs, Pole fig. He
Speaker 1: never like looked at Welcome to the Dollhouse and Fast
Speaker 1: Times as influences, but to me, they were my influences.
Speaker 1: His partner and I always thought about, you know the
Speaker 1: kid who worked at the movie theater and his friend
Speaker 1: sold the concert tickets and and and he was the nerdy,
Speaker 1: the nerdy one. And I was like, I feel like
Speaker 1: that kid. I'm that kid at the movie theater. And
Speaker 1: that was very meaningful to me. And that the people
Speaker 1: in it spoke the way we spoke, and Judge Ryanhold's character, Uh,
Speaker 1: it it felt like someone had captured you know what
Speaker 1: it felt like in the mid eighties to be in
Speaker 1: high school. And actually was written Cameron Crowe who went
Speaker 1: undercover in a high school and wrote a book about
Speaker 1: what happened and that then he wrote a screenplay of
Speaker 1: the book. But he really did it. And he's one
Speaker 1: of the people like interviewing Sicker in the Head and
Speaker 1: I asked him a lot of questions about that. I'd
Speaker 1: like to know about that. All right, Okay, I remember
Speaker 1: read that sexually. Next, John Apoto is the one people
Speaker 1: he is the one people change in for what's the
Speaker 1: sexiest film You've ever seen? And is it by Derek Intent?
Speaker 1: I mean that was a movie that I don't remember
Speaker 1: any of because I love Dudley Moore. I just remember
Speaker 1: the kid thinking, I wish there was less adult stuff
Speaker 1: in this and more silly Dudley more interesting. I didn't
Speaker 1: I didn't like Hunger for the Adults Blake Edwards aspects.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'd like Dudley Moore to be going
Speaker 1: nuts a little bit, but more Arthur type humor. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but as a kid, I think the sexiest movie is
Speaker 1: probably Body Heat. Yes, I mean that was the one
Speaker 1: where you're like, well, that that's that's as hot as
Speaker 1: a as a movie can get. I could not. I
Speaker 1: could not create scenes like that in a movie. I
Speaker 1: get uncomfortable when I have to have anyone be sexy
Speaker 1: or sexual. I'm working through my own issues when I'm
Speaker 1: trying to present those types of scenes. But when I
Speaker 1: look at that, I think, well, that is a commitment.
Speaker 1: Lawrence Chasm, the great Lawrence Chasm, made that movie, and
Speaker 1: he I don't know. I can't think of another scene
Speaker 1: in anything that's like that. What else would you what
Speaker 1: else would even compare? I'll email your list. What is
Speaker 1: as a subcategory to this question troubling bone is worrying?
Speaker 1: Why don't I filmy found a rousing that you weren't
Speaker 1: sure if you should. That's a very good question, you know.
Speaker 1: I might say Sharky's Machine. I might remember Sharky's a
Speaker 1: machine that the bird notes. Maybe it was Rachel Ward
Speaker 1: his Shark's Machine. Um. I mean there was this Canadian movie.
Speaker 1: I can't ever remember the name of it, but it
Speaker 1: was about a guy who was like an extra, you know,
Speaker 1: his atmosphere in movies. I want to be actor wasn't
Speaker 1: doing well and he plays a cop in something, and
Speaker 1: he steals the uniform and starts like going around town
Speaker 1: acting like a cop and like being more and more
Speaker 1: aggressive about that, just like telling people to get out
Speaker 1: of the way, and you know, giving people tickets even
Speaker 1: though he's not a cop. And I remember there was
Speaker 1: some sort of romance in that movie with a Canadian
Speaker 1: actress and I can't remember it. I can't remember what
Speaker 1: to look like, but I remember being fascinated by it.
Speaker 1: And someone's gonna message you and tell you what that
Speaker 1: movie is. It's Canadian. It's not the film Let Speak Cops. No,
Speaker 1: it's like a drama. It's like a Trump version of
Speaker 1: let speak hops from Like, it's not it's not Miami Place.
Speaker 1: It's not it's not Miami Blues. M Okay, it's a
Speaker 1: good mystery for us. John at what is objectively, objectively
Speaker 1: the greatest film of all time? It might not be
Speaker 1: your favorite, but objectively it's the greatest. I mean, when
Speaker 1: I think of perfect movies, it's always like there's like
Speaker 1: two or three. I can't get it exactly right being there, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's usually on the top of my list. I feel
Speaker 1: like it's a miracle of a movie. It holds up.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think all through the Trump administration people
Speaker 1: referenced it, and it's a year Ze Kazinski novel that
Speaker 1: it was based on. I think my grandfather who did
Speaker 1: the development for John Frank and Iimer the director when
Speaker 1: he was like in his sixties or late fifties, and
Speaker 1: there was a period with it. I think they claimed
Speaker 1: that they they owned that book and then they lost
Speaker 1: the option to it. But Peter Sala's couldn't be funny,
Speaker 1: or the scenes with him and Shirley McClain, the scene
Speaker 1: where they're like watching television and he's trying to copy
Speaker 1: what's on the TV and she thinks like they're having
Speaker 1: a sexual moment. I mean, it's the greatest comic scept
Speaker 1: pieces of all time and it has a much deeper meaning.
Speaker 1: And then I always think about Cuckoo's Nest in terms
Speaker 1: of the I mean terms been deermon and broadcast news
Speaker 1: are always right up there. And I always think about
Speaker 1: the movie in additions like Godfather movies and Good Fellas.
Speaker 1: There's a movie called a Prophet. Yeah, that movie that
Speaker 1: I just when it ended, I'm like, he can't do
Speaker 1: it better than that. You can't as good as it is,
Speaker 1: you know, So which is your on sick come to
Speaker 1: a head? I'd say, being being there, let's say, right then,
Speaker 1: what's the film you could well have? What's the mice
Speaker 1: Iver and Iver again? The movie that I've seen more
Speaker 1: than any other movie. That's a good question. What if
Speaker 1: I watched over and over again? I want to watch
Speaker 1: over and over again? Maybe oddly Groundhog Day another perfect movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, we made a movie called Year One with
Speaker 1: Harold Ramos, and we were all excited to just be
Speaker 1: around him because he loved to answer questions. He would
Speaker 1: tell you all the stories where he happened. He was
Speaker 1: the nicest man in the greatest hang. But that is
Speaker 1: as good as a comedy film, yeah can get and
Speaker 1: you can watch it over and over again and always
Speaker 1: find new things about it. Yeah. I have a question
Speaker 1: for you. When you're making films and I think I
Speaker 1: read something, correct me if I'm wrong. I think this
Speaker 1: is what you said in an into and I really
Speaker 1: liked it. Is that someone was saying, oh, your films
Speaker 1: are say long? Why they say long? Cut him down?
Speaker 1: And you said something like, because I like all the bits,
Speaker 1: I don't want to cut it down. Is that true.
Speaker 1: Is that right? Well, I you know, there's usually a
Speaker 1: moment in the movie, in the editing where you realize
Speaker 1: as a whole, this might play better at an hour
Speaker 1: and forty eight, but the sixteen minutes I would have
Speaker 1: to cut to get you there is the thing that
Speaker 1: makes the movie really good. Yeah. And so I feel
Speaker 1: ahead of my time in not caring about time, because
Speaker 1: people will sit down and watch like seven episodes of
Speaker 1: Yellow Jackets in a row, So why won't you watch
Speaker 1: a two hour and seven or eleven minute movie. And
Speaker 1: you know a lot of people will be like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's you know, comedies need to be ninety minutes. So
Speaker 1: comedy is worth less of your time than a spaceship
Speaker 1: or a superhero. I remember someone said to me, I
Speaker 1: think it was James Brooks who he said, you know,
Speaker 1: when your movie is a little bit longer, you're saying
Speaker 1: these people are worth your time. That's very nice. And
Speaker 1: that's how I like to look at it. And I
Speaker 1: have watched movies later and go, god, I wish I
Speaker 1: found that ten minutes. And sometimes sometimes they asked me
Speaker 1: to cut it down because I have to because it's
Speaker 1: gonna be on ABC or something, and They're like, well,
Speaker 1: you only have this much time, so you need to
Speaker 1: cut twelve minutes for it to fit on network television,
Speaker 1: and I do, and everyone's while I'm like, yeah, it
Speaker 1: might be better that way. When you're when you're making,
Speaker 1: I can't remember this from How often do you think
Speaker 1: when you're in the edit, did you watch the film,
Speaker 1: Let's say, let's take this is forty, which I love,
Speaker 1: by the way, how often do you think you watch
Speaker 1: that film from beginning to end and edit, rather than
Speaker 1: working on bits where you just sat back watched it
Speaker 1: as a How do you have any estimate? You have
Speaker 1: to be careful because your brain can only handle so
Speaker 1: many full watches. So I'll fix hunks of it for
Speaker 1: months and months, having maybe watched a long two hours
Speaker 1: and forty minutes assemble at the beginning of the process,
Speaker 1: sense once and then I won't watch it all together.
Speaker 1: I'll just watch, you know, they cut into like six reels,
Speaker 1: and then at the preview, when I watch it with
Speaker 1: an audience, that's when I watch it. I rarely watch
Speaker 1: the whole thing by myself without an audience, But then
Speaker 1: when I'm with the audience, I really like rest up,
Speaker 1: I get focused and I try to see if I
Speaker 1: can have the experience of the audience, which is hard
Speaker 1: because you lose all the mystery and the tension of
Speaker 1: I wonder what will happen. So in a way, as
Speaker 1: a filmmaker, you never get to watch it the way
Speaker 1: another person feels when they watch it, So you almost
Speaker 1: can't edit your movie correctly. You're trying to edit your
Speaker 1: movie based on math, based on story dynamics that you're
Speaker 1: being very intellectual about. But when someone watches a movie,
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes you think, oh, I wonder if they're
Speaker 1: gonna be worried if they're gonna kiss, But really what
Speaker 1: they're worrying about is he's gonna murder her. Like you
Speaker 1: don't know what people think when they don't know what's coming.
Speaker 1: And sometimes you'll test the movie and they'll be like,
Speaker 1: I really he was gonna kill her, And you're like,
Speaker 1: I didn't intend that at all. I thought he just
Speaker 1: liked her. And that's something that you're you have to
Speaker 1: have a conversation with the crowd to say, where was
Speaker 1: it boring, where's it slowing down? How are you experiencing this?
Speaker 1: I'm actually exciting because there's a lot of my movies
Speaker 1: I've been watched in ten years or more, and I
Speaker 1: can begin to try to watch them to see if
Speaker 1: I can get a feel for them as an audience member. Amazing, JAPTA.
Speaker 1: What's the I don't like to be negative for too long.
Speaker 1: What's the worst FILMILY ever seen? I think the worst
Speaker 1: movie I've ever seen was a kids movie. I used
Speaker 1: to have to watch all the kids movies when my
Speaker 1: daughters were younger, and there was a movie called Bratts
Speaker 1: b R A t Z. And every every second of
Speaker 1: it was like being in a dentist chair. It just
Speaker 1: time was moving backwards, and it all felt like an
Speaker 1: excuse to make a toy into a movie. It felt
Speaker 1: like a like a money play. And I could be wrong,
Speaker 1: but on that predict particular day, I suffered more than
Speaker 1: I can remember ever suffering in a movie. And did
Speaker 1: they love it? Did your kids love it? I don't
Speaker 1: even think they loved it. You know, a lot of
Speaker 1: times when you take your kids to movies, it's just
Speaker 1: a Sunday time killer, Like your kids are bored and
Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, an hour and a half of this
Speaker 1: will be this movie, then we'll go get Chinese food.
Speaker 1: And so you watched him seeing a lot of movies
Speaker 1: that you wouldn't want to see. But it is sad
Speaker 1: because now that my kids are, you know, nineteen and
Speaker 1: twenty five, I don't go to kids movies anymore. I
Speaker 1: don't watch them. And I did. I watched him for
Speaker 1: twenty years everything, every single kids movie they came out,
Speaker 1: and like, I was home the other day, I'm like, shit,
Speaker 1: I watched this cartoon and I didn't, And I'm like,
Speaker 1: you should just started watching kids movies alone. Is that
Speaker 1: weird and creepy to just sit by yourself watching those movies?
Speaker 1: I don't know. You'd have to watch my neighbor if
Speaker 1: she thinks he's weird and creepy. I do. You're in comedy,
Speaker 1: you're a comedian. You've made some of the great comedies.
Speaker 1: What film made you laugh the most? Hut up, it's happen.
Speaker 1: I mean the movie that makes me laugh more than
Speaker 1: any movie. I mean, there's a couple of experiences. I
Speaker 1: remember watching Young Frankenstein in a theater at a revival
Speaker 1: house twenty years ago, having never seen it, with a
Speaker 1: crowd and the place just losing their shit. Walter Wall
Speaker 1: just the laughs were crazy, and that was fun. The
Speaker 1: biggest laughs I remember in a theater. One was Airplane
Speaker 1: when it came out, like the Weekend came out, so
Speaker 1: I saw very young man and it was a barn burner.
Speaker 1: It just it made everyone so happy and people laughed
Speaker 1: so hard. And the other one I remember with the
Speaker 1: two others, something about Mary. I went to see with
Speaker 1: Ben Stiller on opening night, just in the Hiding in
Speaker 1: the Back in Santa Monica, and that was so fun.
Speaker 1: It's so fun to see it with Ben. I was
Speaker 1: just so happy for Ben and it was such It
Speaker 1: inspired so many movies and so many of our movies.
Speaker 1: But the one that was the craziest was we went
Speaker 1: to see borat the first time. Sasha showed his friends
Speaker 1: to get thoughts and notes, so it was like twenty
Speaker 1: five minutes longer than it ultimately was. They were set
Speaker 1: pieces in it that he cut out. It was a
Speaker 1: whole scene like shooting a porno that was just so
Speaker 1: crazy and troubling. That may have hit some DVD, actually
Speaker 1: I don't know. And the scene where he has the
Speaker 1: naked fight, there was nothing covering the ball, so it
Speaker 1: was way longer and make way more aggressive about like
Speaker 1: just the guy's balls and penis on Sasha's face, just
Speaker 1: rubbing on his face, and you know, it was true
Speaker 1: fall out of your seat, you know, spit up whatever
Speaker 1: you're eating or drinking moment. And then when it ended,
Speaker 1: George Meyer from The Simpsons was there. Wow, and he
Speaker 1: just said, I feel like I just listened to Sergeant
Speaker 1: Pepper for the first time. It's my second Sergeant Pepper ever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I thought, well, that's the nicest compliment you ever
Speaker 1: can get. Like we knew the forum had been reinvented. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that was exciting. That's a perfect answer. Okay, John,
Speaker 1: you've been amazing. I'm so grateful for you. Thank you
Speaker 1: for giving me your time. However, when you were walking
Speaker 1: down the stairs late at night and one of your
Speaker 1: four cats, you're about to tread in it, and you thought,
Speaker 1: in perfect screenwriting structure, save the cat, so you moved
Speaker 1: your foot, and in doing so, you fell down the
Speaker 1: steps over and over and over again. And it turns
Speaker 1: out you've got five flights of steps because you live
Speaker 1: in a very big house, and you just kept running
Speaker 1: down it like old fastened stunt man. But you didn't
Speaker 1: quite have the way to land in a way that
Speaker 1: wouldn't hurt yourself, and you broke ninety three percent of
Speaker 1: all the bones in your body. At the bottom of
Speaker 1: the stairs, you were dead, land on your head, dead,
Speaker 1: and the cat padded over walked over your body when
Speaker 1: it had some milk. No idea what had gone on.
Speaker 1: I'm walking past. I've got a coffin with me. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm like, I pop in on the upper tails.
Speaker 1: I'm like as everyone as everyone doing that since anyone
Speaker 1: seen Judd, I just wanted to to say a loo
Speaker 1: and they went, oh, I think he's having a nap
Speaker 1: at the bottom of the stairs. I guys the bottom
Speaker 1: says I go, I don't think that's a nap. You're
Speaker 1: in a fucking state. You're all over the shop, so
Speaker 1: I have to get you. But you're all in bits,
Speaker 1: like your limbs are all twists and stuff. I have
Speaker 1: to break off bits to try and get you in
Speaker 1: this coffin. I have to end up chopping you up.
Speaker 1: I get I get the whole family involved. So can
Speaker 1: I bring some knives, we chop you all up. Pop
Speaker 1: you all in the coffin, absolutely jammed in there. There's
Speaker 1: more of you than I was expecting. The coffin is full.
Speaker 1: There is only really enough room in this coffin for
Speaker 1: me to slide one DVD into the side with you
Speaker 1: for you to take across to the other side. And
Speaker 1: on the other side, it's movie night. Every night. One night,
Speaker 1: it's your movie night. What film are you taking to
Speaker 1: show people in heaven when it's your movie night? Dang,
Speaker 1: that's a that's a thing. I'm gonna say. It's just
Speaker 1: what popped into my head. Animal House. Wow. Okay, you
Speaker 1: know there's comedy, there's music, there's a lot of things.
Speaker 1: Because you know, if that's the only one does have
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff going on in it and no
Speaker 1: one else has brought it, you'll be welcome in heaven.
Speaker 1: People are gonna have a body. John aft Out, you've
Speaker 1: been fucking brilliant. Is there anything you would like to
Speaker 1: tell people to watch listen out for read excess Well.
Speaker 1: Sticker in the Head is my book for charity for
Speaker 1: eight to six that is coming out and you can
Speaker 1: buy it now on online or at a real books
Speaker 1: better to get at a real bookstore, yes, but you
Speaker 1: could get an advanced copy now that comes out in March,
Speaker 1: and then the Bubble comes out the spring. On Netflix
Speaker 1: and then in May the two part George Carlin documentary,
Speaker 1: and then I disappear for about two three years. So
Speaker 1: I'm going to disappear. I realized I did too much
Speaker 1: over the last few years, and now I got it.
Speaker 1: I just shut it down. Nothing but poems that I
Speaker 1: don't show anyone that I burn after I write them. Jodpt,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for this. I really appreciate you.
Speaker 1: I hope you have a lovely death. Good day to you, sir,
Speaker 1: you as well. Thank you. That's fun. So that was
Speaker 1: episode one hundred and eighty eight. Head over to patreon
Speaker 1: dot com Forward Slash Break Goals team for the extra
Speaker 1: twenty minutes of chat, secrets and videos with jad guys
Speaker 1: at Apple Podcasts put down five Stars, but don't talk
Speaker 1: about a podcast, talk about the film that means the
Speaker 1: most to you and why that's what I want to read.
Speaker 1: I love to read that side is my name and
Speaker 1: Morine and we really appreciate it. Thank you and thank
Speaker 1: you for listening. Thank you so much to jadd for
Speaker 1: giving me all that time. Thanks to Scrubious pipping the
Speaker 1: distraction pieces of network. Thanks to Buddy Peace for producing it.
Speaker 1: Thanks to ACAS for hosting it thanks to Adding Richardson
Speaker 1: for the graphics and Lisa allowed them for the photography.
Speaker 1: Come and join me next week for another brilliant guest.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell you it is, but I
Speaker 1: can promise you it's another banger. I hope everyone is well.
Speaker 1: That is it for now. In the meantime, have a
Speaker 1: lovely week and please, now more than ever, be excellent
Speaker 1: to each other. Se