WEBVTT - Former White House Counsel Bauer on Trump (Audio)

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<v Speaker 1>For eighteen months, Bob Bauer held one of the most

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<v Speaker 1>important jobs in Barack Obama's White House, though it was

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<v Speaker 1>almost entirely behind the scenes. Bauer served as White House Council,

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<v Speaker 1>essentially the president's top legal advisor. He has since returned

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<v Speaker 1>to private practice in the law firm Perkins Coy, where

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<v Speaker 1>he specializes in political and campaign law, and he's speaking

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<v Speaker 1>out on the legal issues facing the current president, including

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<v Speaker 1>the investigation over Russian election middling. In a new post

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<v Speaker 1>on the blog Just Security, he argues that there may

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<v Speaker 1>already be enough public evidence to make a criminal case

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<v Speaker 1>over the Trump campaign's role in the Russian Russian hacking scandal. Bob,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you for joining us. Let's let's talk about the

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<v Speaker 1>post um and let's let's start with the legal provision

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<v Speaker 1>you think could be in play. What is the law

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<v Speaker 1>that potentially somebody may have violated. There is a comprehensive

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<v Speaker 1>band under Federal campaign financial on for national activity to

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<v Speaker 1>influence federal, state, or local elections, and it has a

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<v Speaker 1>purpose somewhat different from the other visions of federal campaign financials.

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<v Speaker 1>The others are directed at corruption of the government by

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<v Speaker 1>USA nationals, and among the other devices among the devices

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<v Speaker 1>or mechanisms for doing that, or contribution limits, restrictions on

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<v Speaker 1>the source of funding, disclosure requirements on the like. The

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<v Speaker 1>Foreign National Prohibition is aimed essentially, it's a national security

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<v Speaker 1>measure at keeping these influences over American elections within the

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<v Speaker 1>American political community, and so it has a different thrust

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<v Speaker 1>and it is more comprehensive in its scope. So explain

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit more how you feel that there has

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<v Speaker 1>been a campaign finance violation hiding in plain site. What

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<v Speaker 1>I suggested was that hiding in plain side or the

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<v Speaker 1>elements of a violation. Obviously, this is something that's going

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<v Speaker 1>to be assume included in the investigation now under way

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<v Speaker 1>into the Trump campaign Russia connect action. So there's going

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<v Speaker 1>to be some careful thought being given to the range

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<v Speaker 1>of evidence and to how it all adds up. But

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<v Speaker 1>as we look at it in the first instance, to

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<v Speaker 1>determine whether there's even any reason to look in this direction.

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<v Speaker 1>Here you have a clear cut case, validated by our

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<v Speaker 1>intelligence community, of a foreign power trying to influence a

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<v Speaker 1>federal election, in fact, a presidential election, and the nominee

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<v Speaker 1>of one of the two major parties welcoming encouraging this

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<v Speaker 1>activity and using what comes out of it. The President

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<v Speaker 1>said that he hoped Russia would find the secretary Clinton's

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<v Speaker 1>deleted emails he read from wikiwik emails at his campaign.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact, in the last month of the campaign he

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<v Speaker 1>cited these emails a hundred and twenty four different times.

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<v Speaker 1>He brought them up in presidential debates. So he was

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<v Speaker 1>clearly signaling to the Russians. Again, the question of whether

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<v Speaker 1>he intended to do so or not as a question,

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<v Speaker 1>but he clearly was signaling to the Russians, certainly signaling

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<v Speaker 1>to everybody d else that he thought this material acquired

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<v Speaker 1>through illegal hacking activity had premended value to his campaign. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>the campaign finance laws apply, and this particular foreign national

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<v Speaker 1>prohibition applies to contributions or expenditures of the conventional kind,

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<v Speaker 1>like for example, paid advertising, but also to anything of value.

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<v Speaker 1>And clearly his campaign thought it had value because it

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<v Speaker 1>was put actively the youth and it was encouraged. The

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<v Speaker 1>same provision also provides that persons could have liability for

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<v Speaker 1>a foreign nationals activities if they provide substantial assistance to

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<v Speaker 1>the foreign national in its attempts to influence an election.

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<v Speaker 1>Does all of this Trump campaign activity to encourage uh,

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<v Speaker 1>the Russian activity and to make use of it. Does

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<v Speaker 1>that constitutes substantial assistance under the federal campaign finance laws

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<v Speaker 1>such that the Trump campaign might be liable for it.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's a reasonable question under the plain language

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<v Speaker 1>of the regulation. And to the extent that it was

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<v Speaker 1>knowing that that's what they intended to do, then you

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<v Speaker 1>certainly have a criminally enforceable provision. You certainly have the

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<v Speaker 1>potential for criminal activity. My point in saying that it

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<v Speaker 1>was in plain sight is that we've heard any number

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<v Speaker 1>of commentators say that they thought there really wasn't anything there,

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<v Speaker 1>that what we knew to day really didn't indicate a

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<v Speaker 1>potential violation of any law. And to the extent that

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<v Speaker 1>they looked at the question, they tended to look at

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<v Speaker 1>espionage statutes and wire tap statutes. I don't think that's correct.

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<v Speaker 1>If there is a campaign finance law issue here, this

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<v Speaker 1>is an unprecedented situation. I can't tell you that the

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<v Speaker 1>law has ever been I don't think it has ever

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<v Speaker 1>been applied in similar circumstances. But that's because there haven't

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<v Speaker 1>been similar circumstances