WEBVTT - Love, Simon with Matt Rogers 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.120 Hello, Hello, Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:05.480 Jamie Loftus and my name is Caitlin drown Day. We 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:08.200 get a few messages at the top of the show. 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:13.280 Today we have some upcoming show dates including UH Live. 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:18.000 Bechtel Cast in Los Angeles will be covering Anastasia Ever 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:20.400 Heard Of It with guest Anna Sara Gina at the 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:24.000 Ruby Theater. And that's July and that is the episode 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.600 we were doing for your birthday. So and it's our 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:30.480 last show in l A for a couple of months, 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:33.920 so be sure to come out celebrate with us, bring 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:36.159 me a bunch of presents while you're at it. I 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:41.840 will be as rest for sure. I will be dressed 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:44.360 as a resputed um and I would say it would 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:46.519 be the last time to incentivize people to go, but 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:49.640 I know it won't be. Uh. And the reason we 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:51.680 won't be here for the summer is because we will 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:56.480 both be doing shows in Europe. That's right, That's why 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:58.800 we'll be gone from l A for a little bit. 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:02.760 Now you understand Dad it because Jamie, what are you doing? 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:05.880 I'm bringing my solo show Boss Whom Is Girl to 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:10.959 Edinburgh Fringe Festival and London. If you are not familiar, 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:14.440 is my One Woman's show about an evil corporate feminist 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:17.679 who uses feminism for bad, unlike us who use it 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:21.560 for good. Um, it's it's a lot of Elizabeth, so 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:24.560 much fun. I've seen it many times. You're Caitlyn's a 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:27.080 stand of the show. I don't pressure her to go, 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:30.279 but I'm really excited about it. I've never done Fringe before, 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:32.520 so if you're a UK backtel head, I'd love to 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.280 see you there. I'll be in London doing it on 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:41.679 July eighth at the Bill Murray okay, sure, only five 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:43.720 pounds ago and those will be the only two shows 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:46.400 I'll be I'll be doing there for Boss and His Girl, 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:49.840 and then i'll be at Edinburgh Fringe every damn night 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:57.000 from July one through August at Pleasants, Baby Grand please 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:58.760 come to those. I don't know anyone there, and it 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:02.480 would be so great to see a friendly face shows 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:05.240 in Europe too. Why thank you for bringing it up, 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:09.760 Because I'm doing probably mostly stand up shows, um, some 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:14.359 in London, some in Edinburgh, some maybe I'm going to 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:17.239 be in Dublin too. I don't have any shows booked 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:21.720 there yet, but until maybe he until you're like, hey, Caitlin, 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:25.160 uh do this show in Dublin And I'm also going 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:29.079 to be some other places in Europe to any Athens, 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:32.800 Greece listeners, because I'll be there. I don't know what 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:36.280 the comedy scene is like there. We're traveling women now, yes, 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:38.520 you gotta deal with it. We're going around the world, 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:41.840 so stay tuned with maybe announcing additional day. It's mystery 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:46.239 question mark who knows. So keep checking betelcast dot com 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:48.720 on our live appearances tab. That's where you can find 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:52.040 the links to all of their shows and more so, 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:55.680 thank you for listening and enjoy the episode that you're 0:02:55.720 --> 0:03:02.760 about to hear. On the bell Cast, the questions asked 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:06.359 if movies have women in them, are all their discussions 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:09.840 just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism the 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:14.000 patriarchy zef and best start changing it with the beck 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:17.760 Del Cast. Hello and welcome to the Becktel Cast. My 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:20.080 name is Caitlin Dronte and Jamie loved it and we 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:25.400 talked about the portrayal and representation of women and movez 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:28.800 yes and I said that so aware I liked it. 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:30.920 I liked it. I like you made a choice and 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:33.120 I and I was. It's like when you're watching a 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:34.639 movie and you're like, that was a choice, and I 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:38.360 come back to it. If she backs out, I'll respect 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:41.600 her list. It's not my favorite choice, but I've never 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:43.360 really liked that that's the one you made. It was 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:47.000 a mistake, and I am I'm stopping. I love my 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:49.480 favorite thing to do on stages, make a choice, feel 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:52.000 a little bit of hesitation, immediately back up on it, 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:55.400 and lose the entire audience. I love that when they're like, oh, 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.640 she's really going for it. Oh she realizes it's not working. 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:00.680 Oh she's receding into herself, and we have to spend 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:03.720 forty five more minutes with her that I keep telling 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:09.200 what happened to me last week? You know, wonderful, What 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:11.920 a what a gift. Anyway, so we talk about we 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.000 use the Bectel test as a jumping off point to 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:18.200 initiate this larger conversation. And the Bechtel Test, of course, 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:22.440 is a media test created by cartoonist Alison Bechtel, and 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:27.800 it requires that a movie or anything with a narrative 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:31.880 has two female defining characters with names. They have to 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:37.080 talk to each other, and they cannot talk about men. Unbelievable. 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:39.040 I wonder if the Lorena bob it. Thank you, Henry, 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:41.159 I'm just gonna keep talking about it. I wonder if 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:43.560 it passes it doesn't pass the Bectel test of Loraina 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:46.560 Bobbit chops her husband's stick off and drews it into 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:48.840 the woods, even if she's not talking to anyone, that 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:54.239 does automatically passed the Becktel test. Yes, okay, um, cool, 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.920 Well shall we begin. Let's do it our guest today, 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:01.520 we have a great one. I'm excited. He hosts the 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:05.920 last culture Eristas podcast with Bone Yang, and they've been 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:09.760 on tour with the I Don't Think so Honey Live Tour. 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:15.640 It's Matt Rogers. Hi. Hi, Honestly, what I loved that 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.400 you said before, my favorite thing to do is make 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:20.200 a choice, and that could have been the end of 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:22.240 the end of the sentence. And then you're like to 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:24.640 make a choice and then back away, and I was like, perfect, 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:26.080 and then you were like and then they're stuck with 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.359 me forty five minutes. So it wasn't very specific scenario. 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:32.200 And I loved every sentence it could have been compounded to, 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.720 and the sentence that ultimately it was Plymouth, Massachusetts. The 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:40.239 whole hour of it incredible, wonderful. Oh we forgot to mention. Okay, 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:43.800 So full disclosure, Matt. We have an embargo on mail 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:48.480 guests that we that we sometimes lift when the time 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:50.760 is right and the time is right for you. We 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.400 only yeah, we only do it for best of the best. Okay. 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:58.520 So who have you had on what's the company? Alfred Molina? 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:00.760 Oh yeah, we had to lift. Well yeah, I mean 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.400 there was no choice. I mean, I like, I forgot 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.200 that he identified as any gender. I was like an 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:10.240 idea than a gender. Unbelievable. And I heard one Patrigan 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:13.200 just in the room, just now. Yes, So we've been 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:16.159 we've been very choosy. So you know, you're really some 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.800 top tier ship. Honestly, I'm really grateful that you guys 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:21.520 have chosen me. And I do think that the movie 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:24.280 I chose for you guys like, it's good that I'm 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:27.360 here to talk about it. It's only white gay talk 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:31.760 about white gay bullshit. Okay, I am No one else's 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:35.920 take counts. This is a white gay fantasia, and I'm 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:40.000 here to expound on it. So today's movie, of course, 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:45.400 is Love Simon. What is your history with have you 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:47.760 read the book, what's your like, what's your relationship? I 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:49.960 have not read the book. I did see the film 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:54.600 in theaters. I was a good supporter of this LGBT cinema. 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:57.760 Um well, when it came out, I was kind of like, 0:06:57.800 --> 0:06:59.760 oh boy, like what's what's this going to be? And 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:01.839 then I I kind of was like, you know what, 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:03.560 let's give it a shot. And I did end up 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:05.680 crying by the end of the film. I actually cried 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:06.920 a couple of times. I saw it with my best 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:09.960 friend Sudie Green, and we we went and we were 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.440 emotionally affected by it. And then I had that moment 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.080 of everyone that had criticism of it that was like 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.840 justifiably good criticism. I was kind of like defensive about 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:22.120 it because I was like, but but just let us 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:24.720 have this and then but also it's like not a 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:29.480 perfect film, and also it's it's super like for the privileged. 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:33.640 But I did like enjoy the film, you know what 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:36.240 I mean as a movie. I was like, I'd rather 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:39.480 see this movie than like fucking paper Heart or whatever 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:42.080 that ship was with, you know what I mean. I 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:44.280 just was like, at least it's different than that. I 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.440 don't have patience for a John Green joint. I just 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:49.480 don't I don't care, Like I really don't care about 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:51.720 like this, like sort of I don't even know if 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:53.640 i'd call it twee, but like this kind of like 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:59.559 mystical team girl bullshit, I don't care, Like she always 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.120 has to I for like The Boy to learn a 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:04.760 lesson and that's the movie, right, And also The Boy 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:07.080 and those movies just so fucking boring. And also if 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:09.440 there's like a sort of interesting male character, you know, 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:11.080 there has to be a boring character. It's like in 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:13.200 those films, like one of them has to be boring. 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:17.480 And I'm not right. I'm not saying that Simon isn't boring, 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:21.000 because Simon is pretty boring and has an Elliott Smith 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:24.320 Foster and and and Radiohead April two written on his 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:29.600 chalkboard walls. You're just like, man, he's like you know 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:33.199 other gays, he's and that's not like the other guys. 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:36.600 He's straight. Yeah, he's like, may as well be straight. 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:38.400 And also like when he's asking his friend when he 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:40.040 does come out to his one friend and he's like, 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:43.520 did you expect anything? Did you suspect anything? And she's like, 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:46.520 I mean no, like because you're too freaking boring to 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:50.360 have any personality to draw anything on the most exciting 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:52.960 thing about you as a poster on your wall. Know, 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:56.000 there's a lot of I mean, and I guess teenagers 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:59.280 like I definitely did this to some extent, but a 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:00.880 lot of like this is the character and you can 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:03.360 tell because this is their bedroom, like boor At kid. 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:05.520 Like boor At kid, You're like, oh, I know the 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:08.959 vibe of this kid. It's boor At kids. I actually 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:12.160 I was like justifying to my friends why he was 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:14.439 so boring. I'm like, the thing is like when you're 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:16.240 day in high school, you don't have a personality because 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:17.880 you're not allowed to have one, Like he's saying he 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.479 likes Radiohead because he can't really say, like Christina Aguilera, 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:22.440 you know what I mean, like all these things true, 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:24.200 And I was like, you know what, Yes, that could 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:27.319 be true, or maybe the filmmakers are just like he's 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:30.560 a kid that likes Radiohead, which I think both are 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:33.000 equally possible. I don't know. I want to assume it's 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:34.920 smarter than it is, but it could just be like 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:37.760 a fine B plus movie, which I love, I love, 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:41.000 I love that for it. I really like this movie, 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:45.240 and I have I'm coming at it with some blind spots, 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.959 but I saw it twice in theaters and I did 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:52.040 a good lots of good laughs, some good cry and 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:58.079 thank you for that. I was very emotionally invested in 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:00.880 this story and that, of course know it's it's not 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:04.680 without its issues, but we'll talk about those. But I 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.199 generally really liked this movie. I saw it this morning. 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:09.280 I laughed, I cried. Yeah, I liked it. And then 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:11.400 when I was like, who wrote this movie? And it's 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:13.960 that this is us writers, which makes so much sense 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:17.840 because they're pulling. Yeah, they're pulling at the exact like 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:21.079 there is an element to this movie at times where 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:23.120 it's like you feel like your heart strings are being 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:26.240 pulled very scientifically and methodically. They're like first I'm going 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:27.800 to do this, and then I'm gonna throw in a 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:30.720 dead scene, and then like then Jennifer Garner's the mom, 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:33.400 which is like at this point, that's what she does, 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:36.520 that she This is my second favorite Jennifer Garner mom role. 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:41.720 But what's the first favorite? Juno Juno? Yeah, I think 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:44.160 I might like this movie more than Juno or maybe 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:46.640 definitely or maybe maybe it's been a long time since 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:49.320 I've seen Juno, you know, just to like flat out 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:51.800 say this just up top, because I already feel myself 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:55.040 being like needlessly cynical about it. It was very kind 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:59.280 of cool to see a depiction of two gay kids 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:02.160 kissing at the and and then everyone sharing, you know 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:04.679 what I mean, because that would never have happened when 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:06.480 I was in high school. And I think that, like, 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:09.560 you know, the criticism of this movie like it is 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.080 what it is, but also it's like, come on, it's 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:16.920 it's a nice movie where good things happened to someone 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:20.360 who struggles, and you know, I can relate to the struggle. 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:24.160 And sure, like I think we as a society are 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:28.600 still progressing and in some cases regressing, but like you know, 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:33.240 we're always hoping for more intersectionality in movies and in 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:36.040 in media, but you know, it has to start somewhere, 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:37.920 and I feel like this is a good in the 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:40.280 right direction. And the fact that this movie had like 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:42.840 a gigantic release and it was very successful and like 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:46.199 well regarded that, yeah that says a lot. Yeah. I 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:48.880 actually made my parents go see it. I was like, 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:51.840 you should go see this movie because my dad like, 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:54.760 and my dad said it hurt his feelings. I was like, 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:56.800 why did it hurt your feelings? He was like, well, 0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:59.160 the scene with the debt, because to be honest with you, 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:02.920 the scene the dad. And I think Josh Dumel's best performance. 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:04.920 Let's just say, I don't know if I've ever seen 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.160 him be like, I've never been impressed with him before 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:09.920 this movie. He was good. And also I think like 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:11.719 it's kind of it's that kind of thing where it's like, 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:14.160 you know, you're giving that scene as an actor, and 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:16.360 like it's probably pretty hard to mess that up, like 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:20.120 it's pretty emotional situation. But he was great. And I 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:21.559 remember I said to my dad, I was like, you 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:23.200 should go see this movie. And he's like the scene 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:25.320 with the dad about him missing it, that was like 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:27.960 very similar. When I was watching that scene, I actually 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.240 like was very emotionally if I did by it because 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:33.800 it mirrored the own scene in my own life very 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.200 I mean even the vest he was wearing. Remember he's 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:39.360 wearing that coffee dad vest over a flannel with a 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:42.400 hat on. That was my dad's like that that he 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:45.640 was doing like Rich Rogers drag in that scene, And 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:48.920 I was like oh boy. And so the way he 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.760 was being emotional about it, they were standing very far 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:53.840 away from each other. It was kind of just like, 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:56.679 it's that kind of masculinity that there's like that thing 0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:59.880 that needs to get broken down. Extra it did a 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:01.920 like a job in that scene of depicting that and 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:05.320 so so between that and also the scene with the 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:08.040 mom and there was lots of stuff that was gonna 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:12.240 get me. Sure, Yeah, it's I mean I cried a 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:15.040 lot during that like sequence of him coming out to 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:17.720 different people where just and then one of the scenes 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:20.240 would end, you like, and then another one would start 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:24.640 you'd be like, ah. The sister too, was tough for me. 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:27.560 When the sister comes to his room and is like, Simon, 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:29.760 are you okay? Is it true? And he was like 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:33.680 get out of here and yelled at the sister. Had 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.200 I wish they had had more of a reconciling somewhere 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:39.120 in the end they don't really get that. I guess 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:41.920 he gives her a queens in art and that was. Yeah, 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:43.840 that that was I think that was for me, the 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:46.080 most privileged moment of the movie. I'm like, Simon, where 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:50.400 did you get this money? For a least everyone seems 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:54.959 very wealthy. That is one of I like that. It 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:58.400 did make me laugh a lot where where like where 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:01.880 it starts where like I'm like you, I just got 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:05.400 a car from my parents. My house has five rooms, 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:09.120 Like my mom is incredibly liberal, like as if she 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:11.719 were in her early twenties in New York City, like 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.920 smashed the patriarchy and they're fucking gigantic house. I am 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:18.120 assuming was bought with an oil fortune. Like, we don't 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:22.120 know that, it's crazy his mom is a therapist. Oh, yes, 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:23.520 they do say that, right, I don't know, Yeah, we 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:25.400 don't know what his dad does. Though I don't think 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:27.400 I know. I don't think they say. You know. That 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.040 was actually something about it where I was like maybe 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:32.960 something they were going for which didn't really land and 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:35.280 just felt like privilege. But maybe what they were going 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.000 for was like a kid like this that it seems 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.520 like has everything can be hurting very much. And I 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:44.200 think that that is like something I sort of related to. 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.560 My family was an upper middle class. We were middle 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.960 class comfortable. My mom was a hairdresser and my dad 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:52.600 was a phizzed teacher. Like we we had a nice house, 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:56.000 but I was still in pain every single day, like 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.520 an immense amount of emotional pain. And I didn't think 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:01.680 I was lucky, you know what I mean? And so 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.120 I think something that the film could have done was 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:08.240 maybe just given more of an acknowledgement of that sort 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.920 of like privilege. Sure, he comes from a place of 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:15.800 economic privilege, of white privilege, and we can talk more 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:18.640 about that, but first, how would we do the freaking 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:25.040 recap recap he I'm talking about the specifically, so we 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:30.600 meet Simon, he is he describes himself as a He's 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:36.400 It's like he's like Brochure, Like, oh my god, You're like, 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:39.280 is he twenty two? Isn't It was? The first thing 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:40.960 I did was google his age to see if I 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:46.720 should feel like a pervert, but it's yeah. I was 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:48.320 just like, oh this is fine, and I'm actually going 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:50.240 to see, like where's he at, what's he doing? Yeah? 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:55.280 Of course, And he would describe himself as a normal teenager. 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:57.560 You know, he's a senior in high school. He's got 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:03.720 some great friends. Their names are Leah, Nick and Abby group. Yes, 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:09.800 another Brochure friend group. He's got a great family and 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.280 things are going pretty well for him, except that he's 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:15.800 got this one big secret. It's that he's gay and 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:19.000 no one knows. He's still completely in the closet. So 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:23.760 at school, there's like this blog that's popular among the students. 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:27.760 It's Leah's only character trait is that she loves I 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.880 relate so closely with Leah of being this like calling 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:36.560 a friend frantically, being like refresher Internet like just God, 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:38.640 and being in love with Game and forever like that's 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:45.960 just she. I felt very close. Um, And she says, hey, 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:50.000 did you see the latest post. It's from a guy 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:54.800 who posted anonymously as code named Blue, and he is 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.160 saying that he is gay, and Simon is like, oh 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.640 my god, there's someone else like me. So he writes 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:05.000 him an email. He writes Blue an email, Shock. I 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:07.800 love that they took the time to show us that 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:10.159 he made a shell Gmail account. I'm like, that is 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:15.440 appropriately saro. So he writes Blue this email saying like, hey, 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:19.199 I've also got a big secret. But he also signs 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:23.080 it anonymously as again code name Shock, so they still 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:26.520 don't know each other's identities. And then he's like waiting 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:29.040 for him to write back, and then Blue finally writes back. 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:35.360 Tony Hale is screwball comedy. He's like buster blue thing 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.560 all over the place. Tony Hale's character was a little touchy. 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:41.080 For mind. He was a very touchy vice prince and 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:44.119 he was completely inappropriate in a way that's like maybe 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:46.040 we could have seen a movie about this like fifteen 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:47.600 years ago, and like we would have said nothing, but 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:51.800 like now it's like stop being this way with these kids. 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:53.920 It felt a little out of place with like the 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:56.919 movie very modern, but then it was like, oh the 0:17:57.320 --> 0:17:59.520 like it's I know, this movie is like clearly pulling 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.320 from a lot of John hughesy kind of stuff, but 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:04.679 that was the one parents. I'm like, that's like just 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:09.359 straight up textbook John. He is perverted like he was. 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:13.040 He was dangerous. Yeah, I was like he should be fired. 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:15.760 But he's like, I've got a tender date tonight and 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.359 I'm trying to fuck and he tells that to his 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:21.119 student and then he like claused. The student is like 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:24.080 we can talk about this here. I was like, you're fired. 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:27.879 Its wild. So then anyways, but he seems to be 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:30.439 having a good time in the role. He's having a 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:33.040 great time in the role. I bet his day he's 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:36.200 tossing in some improv line seeing what sticks. I wonder 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:38.320 if it was ever even discussed on set, like hey, 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:41.800 this principle is like a little edgy huh. And they 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:45.119 were just like, no, he's fun and then like his 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:48.680 last beat is like a bizarro no homo joke. He 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:54.399 was like, you're just like Tony, You're You're Emmy nominated. 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:57.000 You don't need this. Another great teacher in the film, 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:02.360 Righting love that character. She was amazing and she had 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:04.320 all the fun. She had a lot of the L 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:07.320 O L one. Definitely. She is the theater teacher. And 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:11.600 Simon is doing theater. He's doing a production of Cabaret 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:14.399 with Abby, his other friend, which to me was like, 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:17.680 I don't know if this guy is being closeted, would 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:19.760 be even be in the play. That took me back 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:22.919 to my high school days where I didn't do anything really, no, 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:25.720 did no plays, didn't know nothing, because that was that 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:27.720 would have been a huge tell. Either could be like 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:29.720 a dead giveaway kind of situation. Yeah, and I mean 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.320 I didn't even have to deal with it being Cabaret, 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:36.920 like he's playing like the MC in Cabaret or who 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:41.719 was playing it was like an extra Okay, So he 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:44.119 was in the cabaret. But either way, in cabaret, if 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:47.240 you're in cabaret, you're doing some sexy. It is a 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:55.320 sexy hip movement. I gotta see cabaret and Hello Dolly, 0:19:55.440 --> 0:20:00.720 my SERI and Dolly change. No, it's a dancer. I 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:02.520 was never in any of the musicals because I have 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:10.960 the worst singing voice in the world. It's true. So, yeah, 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:17.000 the Lady Gaga stars, thank you so much that I'm 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:20.000 going to be discovered on this podcast. Okay, So Blue 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:23.160 finally writes back, and he and Simon get to talking 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:26.880 over email about their experience with being gay, and they're 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:32.280 like sexual awakenings and all this stuff. They're both very articulate. Yeah, 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:36.040 they're great writers. They're like screenwriters there. It's almost like 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:41.480 they've written many episodes of This is Us. They also 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:44.520 capitalize and use they use punctuation. I'm like, this is 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:47.520 a teenager. But like, who were the guys they say 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:51.960 gave them their sexual awakenings again, Daniel Radcliffe and John Snow, yes, 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:56.520 those are good ones. Those are They show two very 0:20:56.600 --> 0:21:00.399 different young gays. What I mean like, well, actually no, 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:07.119 they're both into young Yeah, from like very nerdy properties 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:10.080 yeah exactly. Okay, well, yeah, these these boys are bound 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:13.520 to each other. You're right. I liked I liked when 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:16.400 they cut from the john Snow to like every teenager 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:18.919 wearing a john Snow t shirt in the high school. 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:21.160 You're like. That was very stressful for me because it's 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:24.320 all it's kind of like shamy for like how people look. 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:27.320 It's like, oh, here's a guy who's like he's kind 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:31.600 of chubby, and like here's a guy who's brown, and 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:33.600 it's like I wouldn't want to date any of Then 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:35.880 they do do a little bit of that, yeah, with 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:40.840 no awareness. Right, Yeah, that was a little It's weird. 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:42.880 I was thinking the whole time. I was like, what 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:46.920 if Blue is not Hollywood hot? At the I thought 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:51.080 about that too. Spoiler Allard, he is absolutely Hollywood. He 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:58.240 is completely is he over eighteen? He is Thank god 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:02.119 you can jack off to him to guild. But he's like, 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:04.639 I'm it was so like, I don't know, he's like 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:08.840 Hollywood hotter than Simon. You're just I was like, it 0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:11.080 would have been an interesting choice for it to be 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:14.600 like someone who was not the hottest person ever, But 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:18.080 like whatever, they it was a good kiss. Yeah, I 0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:23.200 cried during it anyway. Okay, So Simon starts to speculate 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:25.679 about who Blue might be, and then at first he 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:29.040 thinks it's this guy named Bram who plays soccer with 0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:31.560 his friend Nick, and then emailing back and forth still 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:34.440 and then at one point Simon leaves this email logged 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:37.480 in on a computer at the school library. Enter bore 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:43.680 at kids, Enter Martin, who sucks so bad, but he 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:46.720 that actor does a great job of making that character 0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:51.040 so unlikable and well that kid, that kid that you 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:54.080 were just like, why am I involved with this person? Like? 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:56.879 He really was well well drawn out. He to me 0:22:56.960 --> 0:23:01.240 felt like the logical conclusion of Chicken Nuggets kid from 0:23:01.280 --> 0:23:04.440 eighth grade. Really that makes me so sad. You don't 0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:10.360 think that Chicken Nuggets grade like figured himself out. Oh 0:23:10.440 --> 0:23:12.800 my god, I had so much hope for Chicken Nuggets. 0:23:13.040 --> 0:23:16.440 I thought Chicken Nuggets kid was the best I thought 0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:18.880 right there in eighth grade, Elsie Fisher had literally found 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:20.639 her husband. I'm like, girl, it worked out for you 0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:24.480 in the end. You fucking nailed it. Like Chicken Nugg 0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:28.800 gets an interesting TV and Morty and he's already he 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:32.920 has romantic instincts at eighth grade. Come on, I take 0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:36.879 it all back and take it off worse than him. 0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:39.080 He's probably also going to be sucking dynamite in bed 0:23:39.160 --> 0:23:43.119 later on because he has to try the worst people 0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:45.400 in better the hottest. He's going to make it come 0:23:45.440 --> 0:23:47.920 because no one's ever going to tell like, well, hot people, 0:23:47.960 --> 0:23:49.679 They're just never going to be told that they're not 0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:52.240 doing something right exactly ever. And it's like, I'm not 0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:53.480 going to be the one to tell them I'm just 0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:55.760 happy to be here, or that they have to do something. 0:23:57.359 --> 0:24:01.200 For example, Simon, and when we find out who Blue 0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:03.800 is later and he is Hollywood hot. When they finally 0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:05.880 do have sex, it's going to be like, well, who 0:24:05.920 --> 0:24:08.800 tries you know what I mean? They're going to have 0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:11.280 to take turns, making an ass like kind of rubbing 0:24:11.320 --> 0:24:13.879 against each other in a very unsexy way because Blue 0:24:13.920 --> 0:24:16.240 is like, I'm ten out of ten hot, and Simon 0:24:16.359 --> 0:24:18.399 is like, well, I'm eight out of ten hot and white. 0:24:18.600 --> 0:24:27.439 So so he's like, think anything anyway, anyway, we have 0:24:27.480 --> 0:24:30.040 to take a quick break, but we'll come right back. 0:24:35.720 --> 0:24:41.080 So Martin logs in onto the that Simon was using 0:24:41.960 --> 0:24:45.960 and he sees the emails. So then he approaches Simon 0:24:46.119 --> 0:24:50.159 and basically blackmails him and says, hey, I really like 0:24:50.280 --> 0:24:53.679 your friend Abby. Everyone likes his friend, yes, and I 0:24:53.720 --> 0:24:56.600 need your help getting with her. And if you don't 0:24:56.600 --> 0:24:59.760 help me, I will expose your emails and out you 0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:02.720 to the school. But there is something about this girl 0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:04.879 where you kind of believe that she's like the one 0:25:05.040 --> 0:25:07.639 that she's the one that everyone wants to be with. 0:25:08.280 --> 0:25:10.600 It makes sense, and she's like a good character and 0:25:10.640 --> 0:25:12.720 she's a good friend and all that too, so they 0:25:12.720 --> 0:25:15.880 don't fall into the pitfall of like the bitchy hot girl. 0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:18.720 And they made it that she was new to the 0:25:18.760 --> 0:25:21.200 school too. They made that she had only been there 0:25:21.200 --> 0:25:23.000 for like a year, so you buy it even more 0:25:23.040 --> 0:25:24.840 because there's like that new girl who there's like an 0:25:24.840 --> 0:25:27.159 air of mystery about you know what I mean? That 0:25:27.240 --> 0:25:29.920 was a smart and she was the only one who 0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:33.200 seemed to be of like a lower socio economic class 0:25:33.240 --> 0:25:36.320 because she lives in an apartment building versus a huge 0:25:36.480 --> 0:25:41.720 McMansion like everyone else lives in. So there's that um 0:25:41.760 --> 0:25:45.479 but okay, so anyway, so Simon agrees to help Martin 0:25:46.480 --> 0:25:49.639 so that he's not being outed. So Simon invites Martin 0:25:49.760 --> 0:25:52.880 to the Halloween party that Bram is throwing that weekend. 0:25:53.760 --> 0:25:55.639 They all go to the party and like Nick and 0:25:55.680 --> 0:25:59.160 Abbey are vibing, Martin tries to butt in but it's 0:25:59.160 --> 0:26:02.240 not working, and then like Nick wants to ask Abby out. 0:26:02.440 --> 0:26:04.600 I'm like having deja vu as you're saying, like Nick 0:26:04.640 --> 0:26:06.639 and Abbey are vibing, because I'm sure I've heard this 0:26:06.720 --> 0:26:11.800 in regards to some people. For sure they've been vibing 0:26:11.800 --> 0:26:17.320 for millennia someone. But because Simon is like, beholden to 0:26:17.440 --> 0:26:22.120 this awful blackmail situation of Martin's, he has to be like, no, Nick, 0:26:22.240 --> 0:26:25.480 don't ask Abby out. She's dating this college dude. He 0:26:25.720 --> 0:26:29.280 makes up some imaginary person. Yeah, he becomes a prolific 0:26:29.320 --> 0:26:34.640 liar in a web of lies. A web of lies. Um, meanwhile, 0:26:35.040 --> 0:26:38.320 a teen lie. So many teen movies are based on bets, 0:26:38.440 --> 0:26:42.560 tricks or lies. Yes. So meanwhile Simon is working up 0:26:42.560 --> 0:26:47.480 the nerve to tell Bram that he's Jacques at this party, 0:26:48.160 --> 0:26:50.720 but then he walks in on Bram kissing a girl, 0:26:50.800 --> 0:26:53.879 so he's like, well, Blue is not Bram never mind. 0:26:54.520 --> 0:26:57.600 So now Simon thinks that Blue might be this guy 0:26:57.640 --> 0:27:02.240 who's a server at the Waffle house. Also Cutie again, 0:27:02.440 --> 0:27:09.600 is he a teenager or is he? We have to 0:27:09.600 --> 0:27:12.440 be very careful about who we say is hot. And 0:27:12.760 --> 0:27:15.320 I'm pretty sure that no one in this movie is 0:27:15.359 --> 0:27:18.520 a legitimate teenager except maybe the little Sister. Sure everyone 0:27:18.560 --> 0:27:22.640 else is in their ties based on my cursory, Like 0:27:22.920 --> 0:27:24.800 the Little Sisters, I AMDB and she's got like a 0:27:24.840 --> 0:27:28.239 fucking glamour shot and it's like age thirty six. She 0:27:28.400 --> 0:27:34.760 just did like fucking Lady Macbeth. I hope. So okay. 0:27:34.760 --> 0:27:37.720 So then Simon comes out to Abby and it was 0:27:37.800 --> 0:27:39.960 so that girl that you come out to I loved 0:27:40.000 --> 0:27:42.960 that scene too, That's great. Yeah, she was like, oh yeah, sure. 0:27:44.320 --> 0:27:46.600 I'm like, oh cool, you're still too hot for this, 0:27:46.720 --> 0:27:48.760 You're still too hot for that situation. She's like, I'm 0:27:48.760 --> 0:27:51.760 not surprised. I wasn't expecting anything, but I'm not surprised. 0:27:51.800 --> 0:27:54.359 Crazy to think about, because I'm also incredibly smart and 0:27:54.440 --> 0:27:58.680 perceptive and nice and very chill as well. There's nothing 0:27:58.680 --> 0:28:01.720 wrong with me actually, And then something that this happens 0:28:01.720 --> 0:28:04.240 in a movies a lot, where it's like she's the only, 0:28:04.280 --> 0:28:06.040 like you point out, she's the only character who's like 0:28:06.240 --> 0:28:09.159 a little bit poorer than everyone else, and that is 0:28:09.200 --> 0:28:13.080 always like weirdly exoticized in like teen movies, like, oh, 0:28:13.119 --> 0:28:14.560 she's kind of from the other side of the track. 0:28:14.680 --> 0:28:17.240 She's got a little bit of otherworldly wisdom from what 0:28:17.280 --> 0:28:19.920 with being poor and so like, it's just like she's 0:28:19.960 --> 0:28:24.320 been hungry once, right, like, so like she's actually got 0:28:24.320 --> 0:28:26.359 a lot to teach us. And it was right and 0:28:26.400 --> 0:28:29.600 it would like definitely set off some red flags if 0:28:29.680 --> 0:28:31.399 she was like the only person of color in the 0:28:31.440 --> 0:28:34.160 movie who also happened to be the only person who 0:28:34.240 --> 0:28:37.040 was of a lower class. But you see like Nick 0:28:37.280 --> 0:28:41.440 and Bram also with huge houses, so it's like, okay, well, 0:28:41.440 --> 0:28:45.080 at least they're not doing that kind of house. Does 0:28:45.280 --> 0:28:49.280 we don't see Ethan's house? Which one's Ethan? Ethan is 0:28:49.320 --> 0:28:52.080 the only out kid in school. Oh no, we do 0:28:52.160 --> 0:28:55.560 not see his home. Correct, we should say there is 0:28:55.600 --> 0:28:58.560 another out kid at school named Ethan. And because of 0:28:58.600 --> 0:29:01.640 the way Ethan gets treated, Simon stays in the closet, 0:29:01.680 --> 0:29:06.280 but he's reluctant to Yeah, he wants, like Blue and Jacque, 0:29:06.320 --> 0:29:08.640 to reveal their real identities to each other, but Blue 0:29:08.760 --> 0:29:13.160 isn't ready, so we still don't know who Blue is. Meanwhile, 0:29:13.200 --> 0:29:15.800 like Abby is warming up to Martin and Nick is like, 0:29:15.840 --> 0:29:18.680 fuck it, I'm just gonna tell Abbe that I like her. 0:29:19.000 --> 0:29:22.760 But like Simon has to keep up this sharade, and 0:29:22.800 --> 0:29:27.120 he's like, what if you consider Leah instead of Abby? 0:29:27.240 --> 0:29:30.520 Because Simon thinks that Leah is in love with Nick. 0:29:31.320 --> 0:29:35.200 She want not idiot, She's in love with him. It's 0:29:35.240 --> 0:29:39.120 so obvious. That was one thing I thought was a 0:29:39.160 --> 0:29:41.680 little not right with the movie. Is it's like in 0:29:41.720 --> 0:29:44.840 that scene where Leah, who like fully sleeps over Simon's 0:29:44.880 --> 0:29:48.680 house in his room, somehow that's allowed. Um, She's like, 0:29:48.800 --> 0:29:50.960 I just want to love one person, looking him dead 0:29:51.000 --> 0:29:53.360 in the eyes, and she's like I like you basically, 0:29:53.360 --> 0:29:55.480 and he's just like, yeah, anyway, good night, And he 0:29:57.080 --> 0:29:59.480 I knew. I knew every time one of my friends 0:29:59.480 --> 0:30:02.160 was interested in me. It set me off into an 0:30:02.200 --> 0:30:06.600 interior panic, which I think was something that could have explored. Sure, yeah, 0:30:06.760 --> 0:30:09.080 like a part of it's a big part of being 0:30:09.080 --> 0:30:12.560 closet in high school. It's like navigating like the fact 0:30:12.640 --> 0:30:16.840 being that you are expected to have like a heterosexual experience. 0:30:18.800 --> 0:30:21.719 Maybe he's just not very personal, like I'm I'm rarely 0:30:21.800 --> 0:30:24.560 knowing that it's hard to know, like he's so borning 0:30:24.600 --> 0:30:28.000 but a great, perceptive, beautiful writer and emails, but it 0:30:28.080 --> 0:30:30.840 doesn't can't take any signals from someone he's known for 0:30:30.880 --> 0:30:33.959 his entire life. That was a little bit off, And 0:30:33.960 --> 0:30:36.400 it's also I don't know, Yeah, I felt. I felt. 0:30:36.400 --> 0:30:40.040 I felt really bad for Leah's character almost the entire 0:30:40.200 --> 0:30:43.880 movie because she doesn't really get a win at all, 0:30:44.200 --> 0:30:46.680 down to the very end where Simon's like, get in 0:30:46.680 --> 0:30:50.960 the back seat, my sexy boyfriends taking your spot, So 0:30:51.080 --> 0:30:52.680 Leah has to sit in the back where her two 0:30:52.680 --> 0:30:55.880 friends are french ng and then like the only boy 0:30:55.960 --> 0:30:57.560 she's ever been in love with is with his sexy 0:30:57.600 --> 0:31:00.200 boyfriend in the front seat, and it's like, God, you 0:31:00.320 --> 0:31:03.200 sucked down that ice coffee like you've earned it. But 0:31:03.280 --> 0:31:05.960 she is going to Leah is literally the type of 0:31:05.960 --> 0:31:09.240 girl who fucking blossoms in college. College. She is going 0:31:09.280 --> 0:31:12.840 to be crushing Dick in college. Yeah, Like guys are 0:31:12.840 --> 0:31:14.960 gonna be lining up because she's super smart. She's like 0:31:15.240 --> 0:31:18.400 television star beautiful. In fact, she is the star of 0:31:18.440 --> 0:31:23.320 Thirteen Reasons Why on Netflix. Oh is that okay? I 0:31:23.360 --> 0:31:26.560 see I have only watched the first episode of thirteen 0:31:26.600 --> 0:31:29.720 reasons why. But it freaked me out because it's a bad, 0:31:29.800 --> 0:31:33.840 dangerous show. It's like suicide is actually sick, like like 0:31:34.560 --> 0:31:37.880 gikes um. Okay. So then they're all at the homecoming 0:31:37.920 --> 0:31:41.880 football game and Lyle the waffle house guy is there 0:31:42.000 --> 0:31:46.960 and he's like, Hey, what's Abby's deal. She's so he's 0:31:47.000 --> 0:31:50.320 not gay after all, so he's not blue. Um. And 0:31:50.400 --> 0:31:53.560 then Martin thinks that he needs to make this big 0:31:53.600 --> 0:31:57.640 grand gesture with Abby, which Simon and I was so 0:31:57.680 --> 0:32:00.800 mad when he did this. That was Simon's idea. Simon 0:32:00.880 --> 0:32:04.360 gave him that idea to do a grand jest. I 0:32:04.360 --> 0:32:09.920 would argue, he just says, go bigger. Well, he says yeah. 0:32:10.000 --> 0:32:12.040 To me, it's he's just trying to get Martin off, 0:32:13.240 --> 0:32:15.720 just like says a cliche, just to like get rid 0:32:15.760 --> 0:32:18.280 of them. I guess, I don't know, maybe I'm being 0:32:18.280 --> 0:32:20.680 too mean to Sigmon. But even in that waffle house 0:32:20.680 --> 0:32:23.920 scene where this is like one of the most unrealistic 0:32:23.960 --> 0:32:25.800 fact to the movie to me, in the waffle house 0:32:25.800 --> 0:32:28.600 scene where Martin does that thing of standing on the 0:32:28.600 --> 0:32:31.600 table and my name's Abby and I'm beautiful and I 0:32:31.640 --> 0:32:34.160 deserve the world, and then Eventually he convinces her to 0:32:34.200 --> 0:32:37.600 stand and she becomes okay with it. I'm like, like, 0:32:37.680 --> 0:32:40.800 that just reminds me of so many tense drama club 0:32:40.840 --> 0:32:42.920 parties that I did not want to scream at and 0:32:43.000 --> 0:32:46.560 yet and she also like it gives the weird vibe 0:32:46.560 --> 0:32:49.239 that she's like now going to have a crush on him, right. 0:32:49.400 --> 0:32:52.040 I was like, no, I think this is like fully humiliating. 0:32:52.160 --> 0:32:56.400 It's like not in line with her character. Yeah, I've, I've, 0:32:56.480 --> 0:32:58.640 I don't know. I felt bad for her in that 0:32:58.680 --> 0:33:01.000 scene and I was like, Simon, can you help out 0:33:01.040 --> 0:33:04.000 with this? But you know he's being black mountains, right 0:33:04.120 --> 0:33:08.600 or right? So at the big game, Martin steals the 0:33:08.640 --> 0:33:11.680 microphone from the student who is singing the national anthem 0:33:12.360 --> 0:33:17.720 and very publicly professes his love for Abby, and then 0:33:17.760 --> 0:33:22.120 she's like, I don't like you like that, and so 0:33:22.280 --> 0:33:27.920 like to draw attention away from his humiliation, Martin leaks 0:33:27.960 --> 0:33:31.640 Simon's emails and outs him on that big Crab blog. 0:33:33.000 --> 0:33:35.800 The little sister comes running in. She's concerned. He's like, 0:33:35.800 --> 0:33:38.560 get the funk out of here. A little bit before this, 0:33:38.880 --> 0:33:42.840 Simon thinks that Blue might now be this guy Cal 0:33:43.080 --> 0:33:46.640 who is in cabaret with him. There's like a little 0:33:46.760 --> 0:33:50.600 speculation about that. So now that Simon has been outed, 0:33:50.800 --> 0:33:53.600 he's freaking out. He goes up to cal and he's like, 0:33:53.640 --> 0:33:56.440 are you blue, and Call says I'm not, and then 0:33:56.480 --> 0:33:58.840 he ends up coming out to his family Simon does. 0:33:59.520 --> 0:34:03.200 It doesn't go very well. His his dad like a 0:34:03.360 --> 0:34:07.200 joke about It's dad is like the king of microaggressions, 0:34:07.200 --> 0:34:09.919 like every time he's on screen means well, but he's 0:34:09.960 --> 0:34:13.720 not nailing it. Yeah, So it had been like Christmas 0:34:13.760 --> 0:34:17.160 break and now everyone's back at school and his friends 0:34:17.200 --> 0:34:19.799 confront him and they're like, Abby's like, you pimped me 0:34:19.840 --> 0:34:23.160 out and that's very fucked up. H Nick is like, 0:34:23.320 --> 0:34:25.960 you tried to set me up with Leah. That was 0:34:26.000 --> 0:34:28.759 fucked up. And then Leah's like you're the one I 0:34:28.800 --> 0:34:30.560 was in love with and then you tried to set 0:34:30.560 --> 0:34:32.680 me up with Nick. That was very fucked up. I 0:34:32.760 --> 0:34:36.000 hated this scene. This scene sucked to me because it's like, 0:34:36.040 --> 0:34:38.040 this kid just went through one of the worst things 0:34:38.080 --> 0:34:40.239 in his life, maybe he might ever go through, and 0:34:40.280 --> 0:34:43.000 all of you can't fucking deal with the fact that, 0:34:43.040 --> 0:34:45.359 like you went through like a week long period of 0:34:45.400 --> 0:34:49.120 like minor inconvenience socially because he was fucking getting black 0:34:49.200 --> 0:34:52.920 mouthed and drowning. I hated this and for them to 0:34:53.000 --> 0:34:56.440 leave him like that, like that could have went really badly. 0:34:57.000 --> 0:34:59.480 Kids like that like that are closeted, that are in 0:34:59.480 --> 0:35:01.799 that sort of that have been publicly humiliated like that, 0:35:02.040 --> 0:35:04.000 for you to bail on him, I was like, this 0:35:04.080 --> 0:35:07.319 is so funny. I understand why it happens in the 0:35:07.360 --> 0:35:09.880 movie version of this story because he has to go 0:35:10.000 --> 0:35:13.160 through like the low point where everyone has basically turned 0:35:13.200 --> 0:35:15.440 their back on him, But in the content, it just 0:35:15.480 --> 0:35:19.120 felt so like too much. Yeah, and and a generally, 0:35:19.160 --> 0:35:23.359 like the kids in this movie are generally pretty like 0:35:23.560 --> 0:35:25.240 I don't know, it just like seemed out of character 0:35:25.320 --> 0:35:26.959 for all. Like it's one thing if they're like, hey, 0:35:27.000 --> 0:35:29.080 we're piste off that you did this, but like bailing 0:35:29.080 --> 0:35:32.520 on him just seems like right, yeah, I know, it's 0:35:32.560 --> 0:35:37.440 a movie. I said. I was worried that Abby was 0:35:37.520 --> 0:35:39.560 just going to let him off the hook for like 0:35:39.760 --> 0:35:43.120 pimping her out, so like her anger I think was 0:35:43.160 --> 0:35:46.960 the most justified. Like I didn't hate that she confronted 0:35:47.040 --> 0:35:49.200 him about it, but it was weird that they were 0:35:49.200 --> 0:35:52.680 all like and you've been out it and fuck you'll 0:35:52.719 --> 0:35:55.319 see you. Maybe never that any of them confronted him. 0:35:55.360 --> 0:35:57.239 I just I just don't I don't know the fact 0:35:57.239 --> 0:35:59.440 that they completely abandoned him in a time where you 0:35:59.480 --> 0:36:03.920 know you're and is like very vulnerable, seems we didn't 0:36:03.920 --> 0:36:06.280 even ask how he was doing. They didn't they didn't 0:36:06.280 --> 0:36:08.680 even check in with them, like, Hi, we can talk 0:36:08.719 --> 0:36:10.960 about like what you've done to us, but like first, 0:36:11.040 --> 0:36:15.400 let's confront you on the street in this pack, and 0:36:15.520 --> 0:36:18.160 we're not even going to ask one question about the fallout, 0:36:18.200 --> 0:36:21.200 like with your family or like how you are where 0:36:21.200 --> 0:36:23.600 your head's at. It might have worked a little better 0:36:23.600 --> 0:36:26.480 for me if like one friend couldn't let it go 0:36:26.640 --> 0:36:28.520 and it seemed more like a personal character, But it 0:36:28.560 --> 0:36:30.359 was all of them, and so we're just like, oh, 0:36:30.400 --> 0:36:33.040 so they're right, Like it's just it was, yeah, I 0:36:33.040 --> 0:36:37.560 don't know totally. So then there's a few scenes where 0:36:37.600 --> 0:36:41.400 like Simon confronts Martin tells him to suck off. He 0:36:41.480 --> 0:36:45.680 has a scene with his mom where she's like you're 0:36:45.719 --> 0:36:48.399 still you and I love you, garnering out and she's 0:36:49.080 --> 0:36:50.880 and then the scene with the dad that we already 0:36:50.880 --> 0:36:55.000 talked about a little. There's a great scene with Natasha 0:36:55.040 --> 0:36:59.560 Rothwell when these two bullies like confront Simon for being 0:36:59.600 --> 0:37:03.200 gay and also um Ethan, the kid that's already been out, 0:37:03.239 --> 0:37:09.000 and Natasha Rathabel comes up and she's like basically and 0:37:09.040 --> 0:37:12.319 they will, I want to make that my ringtone. I 0:37:12.640 --> 0:37:14.880 it was really good. And then they all go to 0:37:14.920 --> 0:37:17.000 the principal's office and I love that, like even the 0:37:17.080 --> 0:37:20.120 gay kids have to like gets into the principal's office 0:37:20.160 --> 0:37:22.760 to like hear their apology. It's like we're totally putting 0:37:22.800 --> 0:37:28.040 the burden on them despite them being totally not there there. 0:37:28.600 --> 0:37:32.080 It's like, I mean, I love that scene between Ethan 0:37:32.160 --> 0:37:34.800 and Simon was one of my favorite parts. But I 0:37:34.880 --> 0:37:36.920 was like, man, Tony Hale, you really like don't know 0:37:36.960 --> 0:37:39.799 what you're doing us. At least it was clear that 0:37:39.840 --> 0:37:41.400 he was like that was the wrong thing to do, 0:37:41.440 --> 0:37:43.640 because for sure he seems so incompetent in that scene. 0:37:43.640 --> 0:37:46.920 But I was happy that they did put Ethan and 0:37:46.920 --> 0:37:49.640 Simon together for at least one point, because Simon gives 0:37:49.680 --> 0:37:51.560 the moving an opportunity which I think it could have 0:37:51.600 --> 0:37:55.239 taken more, but the movie gets a chance to at 0:37:55.320 --> 0:37:59.919 least be like yeah, I'm like gay, black and all, 0:38:00.080 --> 0:38:04.520 so like not necessarily conforming to gender in the way 0:38:04.560 --> 0:38:07.359 that we all dress and everything like that, so it's 0:38:07.480 --> 0:38:10.239 crazy hard for me and my family will not accept me. 0:38:10.280 --> 0:38:12.279 I'm like yours. So it's like, yeah, I thought it 0:38:12.320 --> 0:38:16.680 definitely like started to shed some light on another perspective, 0:38:16.719 --> 0:38:18.520 and I thought maybe we could have gone a little 0:38:18.520 --> 0:38:21.920 bit further with that um. But it was nice to 0:38:21.960 --> 0:38:24.279 at least hear from this kid, and it didn't just 0:38:24.360 --> 0:38:27.240 feel like the movie was using the kid as a prop. Definitely, 0:38:27.320 --> 0:38:31.120 there was a punch of the man who played Ethan, 0:38:31.200 --> 0:38:34.799 who of course is twenty seven years old, did like 0:38:34.880 --> 0:38:38.360 a bunch of really good Clark Jones, Clark Moore, Clark 0:38:38.400 --> 0:38:41.560 Moore did, he did, He did a bunch of really 0:38:41.560 --> 0:38:44.360 good interviews around I think like really took full advantage 0:38:44.400 --> 0:38:46.840 of being a part of this movie to like speak 0:38:46.880 --> 0:38:49.799 more to that um and said kind of what you 0:38:49.800 --> 0:38:52.200 said earlier, mat of like I hope what people take 0:38:52.200 --> 0:38:54.520 away from the movie is that even if you're in 0:38:54.600 --> 0:38:58.640 a very privileged position, it's still an impossible place to 0:38:58.719 --> 0:39:01.080 be in for a lot of people. But he also 0:39:01.120 --> 0:39:02.880 he spoke a little bit I just want to share 0:39:02.960 --> 0:39:06.520 share a quote. May I sure, may I he did? 0:39:06.640 --> 0:39:10.440 He didn't interview with teen Vogue incredible and said quote, 0:39:10.440 --> 0:39:13.280 we're used to seeing strong black characters, especially if they're effeminate. 0:39:13.880 --> 0:39:16.520 Ethan has some depth added to his character where he's 0:39:16.520 --> 0:39:19.799 not just the punchline. He has vulnerabilities just as much 0:39:20.480 --> 0:39:23.399 as anybody else, even though he's comedic relief. He's also 0:39:23.440 --> 0:39:25.960 a source of inspiration for young people nervous about being 0:39:26.000 --> 0:39:29.200 accepted by others. So I wish I mean, it's like 0:39:29.239 --> 0:39:32.280 I wish he was a more meaningful part of the plot, 0:39:32.960 --> 0:39:34.799 even though I mean they do. He has seen a 0:39:34.800 --> 0:39:38.600 bunch of different times, um, but mostly in most of 0:39:38.640 --> 0:39:41.720 the scenes he's in, he's being bullied by those two 0:39:42.080 --> 0:39:45.799 homophobe kids. It's true. Yeah, I mean, I guess the 0:39:45.800 --> 0:39:48.240 best I could say for that is he is always 0:39:48.280 --> 0:39:52.480 above it and like always has a funnier, better response 0:39:52.800 --> 0:39:54.520 to it. I don't know, I don't know what did 0:39:54.560 --> 0:39:58.840 you make of that character. I thought that it was 0:39:58.960 --> 0:40:02.160 interesting to way because I didn't know any out gay 0:40:02.239 --> 0:40:04.760 kids when I was in high school, so I don't 0:40:04.800 --> 0:40:07.239 really know. I didn't have a barometer for how they 0:40:07.239 --> 0:40:11.239 get treated. It obviously, was like painful to see the kid, 0:40:11.600 --> 0:40:14.640 even though he always had a smart, funny response to it. 0:40:15.080 --> 0:40:16.880 And I like that they empowered the kid in that 0:40:16.920 --> 0:40:20.120 way and gave him his intelligence and his humor. So 0:40:20.200 --> 0:40:23.839 many kids don't have that, And you know, I wondered if, like, um, 0:40:23.880 --> 0:40:26.920 that was the representation of the average kid. Like I 0:40:26.960 --> 0:40:28.680 think it was a good I think it was. It's 0:40:28.800 --> 0:40:31.280 nice to see for gay kids that might be closeted 0:40:31.280 --> 0:40:34.600 to watch this movie and see themselves on screen this 0:40:34.640 --> 0:40:37.879 way and them to be given this this superpower, which 0:40:37.960 --> 0:40:41.560 is his intelligence. But to me, it was like, the 0:40:41.719 --> 0:40:45.640 reality is like this kid might be really depressed, and 0:40:45.800 --> 0:40:49.000 it seems like, um, it almost seemed like when Simon 0:40:49.520 --> 0:40:53.319 turns to Ethan and it's like, my life is over, 0:40:53.400 --> 0:40:57.680 it couldn't be worse, etcetera. He almost really believes that 0:40:57.800 --> 0:41:00.759 his life is worse than this other kid. And I 0:41:01.080 --> 0:41:04.120 don't know, you can't expect too much of this movie 0:41:04.400 --> 0:41:06.400 because it is a movie for teens and it is 0:41:06.440 --> 0:41:08.520 like a big studio film and it's supposed to be 0:41:08.560 --> 0:41:13.160 you know, mainstream, But the reality of being POC and 0:41:13.320 --> 0:41:17.440 gay is like really so much different than it is 0:41:17.520 --> 0:41:20.640 to be someone like Simon, and then also at the 0:41:20.760 --> 0:41:23.200 end of the movie, well, I guess you'll you'll you'll say, 0:41:23.680 --> 0:41:27.160 you'll say who Blue is? But Blue is black in 0:41:27.200 --> 0:41:31.320 the movie. And also just the reality of like there's 0:41:31.360 --> 0:41:34.000 just so many more things that are going to be 0:41:34.120 --> 0:41:36.560 reality that they deal with. And I wondered if the 0:41:36.600 --> 0:41:42.120 movie wasn't The movie was so blissfully diverse, but with 0:41:42.200 --> 0:41:45.480 that kind of diversity comes a whole other series of 0:41:45.520 --> 0:41:47.759 things to deal with, definite, And I wonder if the 0:41:47.840 --> 0:41:51.839 movie was using diversity in a way that was like, look, 0:41:51.840 --> 0:41:55.000 we're a diverse film, and then kind of ignoring a 0:41:55.000 --> 0:41:57.640 lot of the realities. You know, a kid, a kid 0:41:57.680 --> 0:42:01.319 that's a kid that's like Simon, a white gay kid 0:42:01.800 --> 0:42:05.560 who's sixteen, seventeen years old. They might not be at 0:42:05.760 --> 0:42:08.319 at the point where like the person reveals themselves and 0:42:08.320 --> 0:42:11.080 they're a black kid and they he might be in 0:42:11.120 --> 0:42:12.520 the place where he's like, what is my parents going 0:42:12.560 --> 0:42:14.640 to think about this? So it kind of just felt 0:42:14.680 --> 0:42:17.520 like this whole it almost felt dumbed down in a 0:42:17.560 --> 0:42:20.000 way so that it can be woke. So it felt 0:42:20.000 --> 0:42:22.120 like it was it felt like it was raising it's 0:42:22.160 --> 0:42:26.480 i Q. It feels like it's ignoring or not like 0:42:26.800 --> 0:42:31.000 using opportunities to make statements that would have been helpful 0:42:31.040 --> 0:42:34.719 to make it glazes stuff over. Yeah, for sure. And 0:42:34.760 --> 0:42:36.799 that was like the one the one thought I had 0:42:36.840 --> 0:42:39.000 about the Ethan character. And I don't know how spot 0:42:39.040 --> 0:42:42.280 on this is, but just the fact that he only 0:42:42.320 --> 0:42:46.480 becomes meaningfully involved in the plot to sort of explain 0:42:46.600 --> 0:42:49.200 something to Simon, but we don't really get to see 0:42:49.280 --> 0:42:51.399 him be involved in the plot in a meaningful way 0:42:51.400 --> 0:42:54.319 where he's just like is rightfully so saying like this 0:42:54.400 --> 0:42:57.480 is my experience and like you are not the worst 0:42:57.960 --> 0:43:00.440 off of everyone, and kind of like all out and 0:43:00.480 --> 0:43:03.200 take stock of of what you do have going for you, 0:43:03.239 --> 0:43:06.200 because you know, even though it's a difficult experience, you're 0:43:06.280 --> 0:43:09.239 you're very lucky. Which is a great scene, and I'm 0:43:09.320 --> 0:43:11.719 so glad it's there, but it's it almost feels like 0:43:11.760 --> 0:43:15.000 that character is put there and then can't participate in 0:43:15.040 --> 0:43:18.400 any way other than to be that example. And so 0:43:18.520 --> 0:43:20.680 he's there, is an example, and then isn't really allowed 0:43:20.719 --> 0:43:24.319 to participate in the movie, which kind of sucks because 0:43:24.320 --> 0:43:27.400 he's a good character and and there's a lot there 0:43:27.440 --> 0:43:30.480 that you think, you know, there's so many characters in 0:43:30.480 --> 0:43:32.640 this movie that there could have been like real estate 0:43:32.800 --> 0:43:35.799 freed up for him, because like what if Simon was 0:43:35.840 --> 0:43:38.239 friends with the only out kid at school? Like what 0:43:38.239 --> 0:43:40.520 would that be? I don't know, you know. They It's 0:43:40.520 --> 0:43:43.359 almost like I almost feel like saying I also want 0:43:43.400 --> 0:43:47.279 to see like love Ethan with him. But it's like 0:43:49.000 --> 0:43:51.359 you wonder if you wonder if a major studio would 0:43:51.400 --> 0:43:55.040 do that, and the answer is not, I probably would not, 0:43:55.680 --> 0:43:58.719 at least not today, maybe in five years. I mean, 0:43:58.760 --> 0:44:02.280 you're talking about a movie that literally like has Simon 0:44:02.360 --> 0:44:06.879 have like a quote unquote gay day dream and it's 0:44:07.000 --> 0:44:12.320 him walking jauntily to like I will always know not 0:44:12.840 --> 0:44:16.120 those I want to dance with somebody while everyone wears 0:44:16.120 --> 0:44:20.359 like a bright colored T shirt and I'm like summer that, yeah, 0:44:20.400 --> 0:44:22.560 I thought about that, and he's he's like, um, well, 0:44:22.560 --> 0:44:26.760 maybe not this gay. I'm like, dude, this is not gay. 0:44:27.320 --> 0:44:31.520 This is colorful. This is not gay, Like gay is 0:44:31.560 --> 0:44:35.560 everyone in this scene eating each other's ass? Like you like, 0:44:35.600 --> 0:44:38.400 this is not gay? And so I'm kind of thinking, like, wow, 0:44:38.480 --> 0:44:42.560 this movie like it's about homosexuality. No, you know what, 0:44:42.600 --> 0:44:47.080 it's about being gay? It's not about homosexuality. It's not 0:44:47.160 --> 0:44:53.600 about like actually reckoning with your sexuality. It's about being 0:44:53.760 --> 0:44:57.960 different socially, and it's about having secrets. That's what it's about. 0:44:58.000 --> 0:45:00.840 And so like it doesn't make any effort to pretend 0:45:00.840 --> 0:45:03.160 like it's more than that short. You know, it's like PG, 0:45:04.480 --> 0:45:06.759 you know, and like I said, you can't expect too 0:45:06.800 --> 0:45:09.080 much of it, and like, you know, movies about like 0:45:09.120 --> 0:45:14.799 heterosexual teen romance are not about sex, well largely, but um, 0:45:14.840 --> 0:45:17.279 it can't succeed on every level that I think we'd 0:45:17.280 --> 0:45:19.719 like it to, right, I mean, yeah, it's a it's 0:45:19.719 --> 0:45:24.800 a teen movie that adheres to almost every like trope 0:45:24.880 --> 0:45:27.400 of the kind of like a teenager with a secret, 0:45:28.440 --> 0:45:30.279 which is also why I feel like people should go 0:45:30.360 --> 0:45:32.440 easier on it, you know what I mean. It's like like, 0:45:32.640 --> 0:45:33.960 so I'm of two minds of it. It's like I 0:45:33.960 --> 0:45:36.600 can see everything that you're saying is right. Also the 0:45:36.680 --> 0:45:40.200 movie is this like it's not it's it's just not 0:45:40.640 --> 0:45:43.040 gonna Maybe it's not gonna make a social comment. Maybe 0:45:43.040 --> 0:45:46.200 it is just for more people to see themselves on screen. 0:45:46.560 --> 0:45:49.600 And if you are not in that more people, that sucks, 0:45:49.640 --> 0:45:52.359 Like I'm sorry, I hope that for everyone to be represented. 0:45:52.719 --> 0:45:57.760 I personally hope for everyone who represented it's like Hollywood's issue, right, 0:45:57.800 --> 0:46:01.960 And it's not surprising that like for the baseline of 0:46:02.000 --> 0:46:05.200 like the first like wide released movie of this kind, 0:46:05.600 --> 0:46:08.239 for Hollywood to play it safe and be like, well, 0:46:08.280 --> 0:46:10.040 if we're going to do this and take this quote 0:46:10.080 --> 0:46:14.920 unquote risk, then he'd better be like white hot from money, 0:46:15.040 --> 0:46:17.359 and like that does make sense in terms of being 0:46:17.400 --> 0:46:21.000 the baseline of where I mean, Hollywood feels comfortable gambling. 0:46:21.080 --> 0:46:24.040 That's not right and that's hitty and bad and I 0:46:24.120 --> 0:46:28.160 want you know, everyone wants it a love ethan and like, 0:46:28.200 --> 0:46:31.040 but it it doesn't make sense to me that this 0:46:31.120 --> 0:46:34.319 is the first like quote unquote gamble that they would take. 0:46:34.680 --> 0:46:36.840 It makes sense to me on paper, you know what 0:46:36.880 --> 0:46:39.839 I mean. I wish that Hollywood would realize that actually 0:46:40.280 --> 0:46:43.120 when people most see themselves is when the stories are 0:46:43.160 --> 0:46:47.040 the most specific. Yeah, Like, for example, something that's a phenomenon, 0:46:47.560 --> 0:46:49.360 I don't know if it was a box office phenomenon, 0:46:49.400 --> 0:46:53.160 but it's a movie that everyone knows is precious. You 0:46:53.200 --> 0:46:55.920 don't get more specific than that. Like, it's just it's 0:46:55.920 --> 0:47:00.040 a very specific story of trauma and struggle, but it 0:47:00.719 --> 0:47:04.720 really connected with a ton of people on many levels 0:47:04.760 --> 0:47:09.879 because it was bold enough to be that specific. So 0:47:10.520 --> 0:47:14.440 by kind of washing this story out and not allowing 0:47:14.480 --> 0:47:18.040 the intelligent conversations that would happen in real life to happen, 0:47:18.680 --> 0:47:21.680 I wonder if it actually could have made more money, 0:47:21.880 --> 0:47:23.880 if if maybe people would have been a little bit 0:47:23.920 --> 0:47:26.839 more passionate about it, because right now, the conversation we're 0:47:26.880 --> 0:47:29.880 largely having about the movie is it's like it was good. 0:47:30.280 --> 0:47:32.000 It could have been better if it felt more real, 0:47:32.840 --> 0:47:34.960 you know what I mean, which is like, you wonder 0:47:35.000 --> 0:47:37.959 how necessary that is? Sure, we need to take another 0:47:38.040 --> 0:47:45.600 quick break, but we will be right back. Um, I'll 0:47:45.640 --> 0:47:49.640 just finish up the recap because is I like, I'm 0:47:49.760 --> 0:47:52.719 enjoying this break in format? Yeah? Yeah, we're like, you know, 0:47:52.800 --> 0:48:04.640 it's discussion integrated within the recap, but its spread. We've 0:48:04.680 --> 0:48:10.160 said it Toive. How'sn't it okay? So Simon posts on 0:48:10.239 --> 0:48:14.560 the blog after some of the you know, intensity at 0:48:14.560 --> 0:48:16.920 the school has has died down a bit. Um He 0:48:17.000 --> 0:48:21.720 posts on Creek's secrets and he says, I love Blue, 0:48:22.160 --> 0:48:24.759 whoever you are, I want to meet you. Here's where 0:48:24.760 --> 0:48:28.160 I'm going to be after this. After Cabaret hope to 0:48:28.200 --> 0:48:30.839 see you there because I deserve a love story and 0:48:30.880 --> 0:48:33.319 you deserve a love story, and we all deserve love. 0:48:33.960 --> 0:48:36.080 He makes up with his friends. They all go to 0:48:36.160 --> 0:48:41.080 the school carnival together. He rides the ferris wheel waiting 0:48:41.239 --> 0:48:44.040 for Blue to show up. For a while, it seems 0:48:44.040 --> 0:48:50.080 like he's not going to even Martin. He offers his 0:48:50.120 --> 0:48:53.080 guilt four dollars. He says, I love you. It's me, 0:48:53.239 --> 0:48:55.239 and then we're all in an audience like if it's him, 0:48:55.239 --> 0:49:00.200 I'm going to and then it's not him, and it's 0:49:00.239 --> 0:49:04.600 not Yeah, and he gives the ferris wheel guy. Imagine 0:49:04.600 --> 0:49:07.000 if it was the ferris wheel guy. It's like, I'm 0:49:07.440 --> 0:49:10.600 mind if I said, he gives him like a couple 0:49:10.600 --> 0:49:12.680 of dollars to keep it going for one last time, 0:49:13.600 --> 0:49:15.719 and then who shows up? And who shows up? But 0:49:20.080 --> 0:49:23.240 I enjoyed that twist. I was. I was really happy 0:49:23.239 --> 0:49:25.720 it was him. Yeah, I liked he was my favorite 0:49:25.760 --> 0:49:31.279 candidate the same Yeah, And they kiss and he says, 0:49:31.320 --> 0:49:33.520 are you disappointed it to me? And I was like 0:49:34.160 --> 0:49:36.960 that's such a thing too, was like, you probably the 0:49:37.040 --> 0:49:39.680 kid was probably nervous because what if you can care? 0:49:39.719 --> 0:49:42.040 And he's like, oh god, never mind. Yeah, it's a 0:49:42.120 --> 0:49:47.080 real Martin Nabby situation. Right, It's worth it for me 0:49:47.160 --> 0:49:51.120 because you get that big moment of everyone cheering um 0:49:51.160 --> 0:49:53.879 while there is a queer kiss happening on screen which 0:49:53.920 --> 0:49:57.120 never happens. But just like logistically, I'm like, oh, it's 0:49:57.160 --> 0:49:59.239 such a big ask to be like, hey, do you 0:49:59.239 --> 0:50:02.879 want to come out the entire student body, like who 0:50:02.920 --> 0:50:05.080 are all going to be gathered? Like that is so 0:50:05.160 --> 0:50:08.080 much pressure and Simon has just gone through this whole 0:50:08.120 --> 0:50:10.560 thing where he was put under too much pressure to 0:50:10.680 --> 0:50:12.920 come out publicly. And I was like, I feel like 0:50:12.920 --> 0:50:15.839 you kind of I don't know. I loved it, Yeah, 0:50:15.960 --> 0:50:17.920 I loved it because it was like I think that 0:50:18.080 --> 0:50:20.480 it was obviously a message. It's like I'm willing to 0:50:20.520 --> 0:50:24.320 be this brave. So I think like his bravery made 0:50:24.520 --> 0:50:26.920 made him want to be brave, you know what I mean. Well, yeah, 0:50:26.960 --> 0:50:28.839 they talk about that, you know what I mean. Like 0:50:29.480 --> 0:50:31.040 I kind of loved it and I kind of got it. 0:50:31.040 --> 0:50:33.120 I could see that really happening in real life, like 0:50:33.160 --> 0:50:35.800 if one kid was if I thought of this happening, 0:50:35.800 --> 0:50:38.800 I was like that I can see being a reality. 0:50:38.880 --> 0:50:40.840 Like I was wondering like if I'm in high school, 0:50:40.880 --> 0:50:42.560 and if I was doing this and somebody was like, 0:50:42.680 --> 0:50:46.400 I'm actually gonna do this, like be here, maybe I would, 0:50:46.880 --> 0:50:48.960 Maybe I would. I would love for that. I just 0:50:49.080 --> 0:50:52.399 was I felt I felt concerned for Blue. I hope 0:50:52.400 --> 0:50:55.080 Blue is cool with this. But they did talk about 0:50:55.120 --> 0:50:58.920 making each other brave. They inspired each other, so that 0:50:59.000 --> 0:51:01.960 does make sense. I just got nervous for him when 0:51:02.000 --> 0:51:04.160 that was a big as it's a big ask. But 0:51:04.480 --> 0:51:09.040 they also kept expressing major hesitancy of wanting the world 0:51:09.080 --> 0:51:12.600 to know his identity and everything. Question. Do you think 0:51:12.600 --> 0:51:15.040 that they continued on into college or is this a 0:51:15.080 --> 0:51:18.879 beautiful flash in the pan from senior year. I think 0:51:18.920 --> 0:51:21.839 that they had a really nice rest of the senior year, 0:51:22.080 --> 0:51:24.120 tried to be a long distance for a short time, 0:51:24.160 --> 0:51:26.800 maybe even went too long, like six to eight months, 0:51:26.920 --> 0:51:29.120 and then it got just too hard at college where 0:51:29.120 --> 0:51:33.879 there's just so many other gay, beautiful dudes. But they 0:51:35.160 --> 0:51:37.680 they'll always tell each other in high regard and guess what, 0:51:37.840 --> 0:51:40.319 who knows, maybe they'll even maybe it's not over, maybe 0:51:40.320 --> 0:51:41.880 down the road, but they've got more growing to do. 0:51:42.120 --> 0:51:44.160 I don't think it's one and done for these boys, 0:51:44.320 --> 0:51:47.680 because Simon says he's going to college in Los Angeles 0:51:47.760 --> 0:51:50.640 ever heard of it? I know where are you going? 0:51:50.840 --> 0:51:52.880 I bet? And you know, because like he's going to 0:51:52.920 --> 0:51:56.920 a nice college. He's probably going to US. And he 0:51:56.960 --> 0:51:59.239 does not have student loan debt that simon. I'll tell 0:51:59.280 --> 0:52:02.319 you one thing. It doesn't. He's able to go to 0:52:02.360 --> 0:52:08.680 West Hollywood guildfree ins. He's going to Hamburger, Mary's at Chapel. 0:52:10.080 --> 0:52:17.040 He is fucking you know, actually works at pump No way, 0:52:19.120 --> 0:52:25.839 of course, of course. Anyway, So that's the story of 0:52:25.880 --> 0:52:30.600 the movie. And we covered so much, covered a lot already. 0:52:31.680 --> 0:52:35.360 It's a good, great soundtrack to We didn't say that 0:52:35.400 --> 0:52:39.839 the music is really good. A lot of bleachers. There's 0:52:39.840 --> 0:52:42.720 a lot I like about this movie, and I would 0:52:42.760 --> 0:52:46.839 like to hear your opinions, our listeners opinions on this. 0:52:47.280 --> 0:52:49.400 And we talked a little bit about how the movie 0:52:49.680 --> 0:52:53.799 handles race and kind of glosses over things that like 0:52:54.239 --> 0:52:58.759 a young queer person of color would have to deal 0:52:58.800 --> 0:53:01.480 with it. It introduced is all these characters and then 0:53:01.600 --> 0:53:06.600 kind of glasses over the intricacies of that situation. However, 0:53:06.800 --> 0:53:12.600 it felt to me the movie normalizes people being attracted 0:53:12.719 --> 0:53:16.640 to people of different races and ethnic backgrounds without needing 0:53:16.680 --> 0:53:19.120 to draw a lot of attention to the fact that 0:53:19.120 --> 0:53:21.640 they were attracted, except for that one weird moment where 0:53:21.800 --> 0:53:24.840 Simon is like fumbling with his words. That was the 0:53:24.840 --> 0:53:27.759 one moment where there is any attention drawn to it. 0:53:29.080 --> 0:53:33.600 They're at the Halloween party and he is still trying 0:53:33.640 --> 0:53:36.560 to pass this straight and he's talking to his friend Nick, 0:53:36.760 --> 0:53:39.080 and Nick's like, Oh, it would be so hot, and 0:53:39.120 --> 0:53:43.400 Simon's like, yeah, she's hot, but she's not really my type, 0:53:43.680 --> 0:53:47.200 not because she's black. I love black women, but I 0:53:47.239 --> 0:53:50.000 don't have a thing for black women. I just love 0:53:50.040 --> 0:53:52.040 all women. So he's like, it's like a bad joke. 0:53:53.080 --> 0:53:56.799 It seems like a bad attempt at humor, Like, oh, 0:53:56.920 --> 0:54:04.720 I'm not fetishiz right, but also not not because it's needless. Yeh, needless. 0:54:04.840 --> 0:54:07.439 I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say 0:54:07.480 --> 0:54:10.400 that it kind of worked for me because he's in 0:54:10.440 --> 0:54:13.799 a stressful situation where he's like trying to pass so 0:54:13.840 --> 0:54:16.120 I kind of got that he was like stumbling over 0:54:16.280 --> 0:54:23.239 his Yeah, and a lot is that Abby's expense, And 0:54:23.280 --> 0:54:26.400 it's it's tricky because it's like you know that ultimately 0:54:26.440 --> 0:54:30.360 this is Martin's fault for being the worst most boat 0:54:30.480 --> 0:54:33.439 kid of all time. Like he's just like a bore 0:54:33.480 --> 0:54:37.480 at poster come to life. But but it's like, you know, 0:54:37.520 --> 0:54:41.360 Simon does sell Abby up the river for almost I 0:54:41.400 --> 0:54:43.560 mean for what we have to think is the majority 0:54:43.600 --> 0:54:45.799 of their friendship because I haven't even known each other 0:54:45.840 --> 0:54:48.560 this lot. Like it's just I mean, I'm glad that 0:54:48.600 --> 0:54:51.839 she stands up to him, she of all people, should have, 0:54:52.400 --> 0:54:55.600 but I don't know, yeah, she was the only one 0:54:55.680 --> 0:54:57.960 who I felt like, you got a real bone to 0:54:58.000 --> 0:55:01.160 pick with him here, Yeah, you know Nick that was 0:55:01.239 --> 0:55:05.000 just like a like cock block at best, Like Nick 0:55:05.120 --> 0:55:08.279 was not greatly Like there was no reason for Nick 0:55:08.320 --> 0:55:11.120 to turn his back on his lifelong best friend out 0:55:11.160 --> 0:55:14.319 of nowhere. Nor was there for Leah really. I mean, 0:55:14.360 --> 0:55:17.799 although it's like, okay, she's disappointed, but again it's like 0:55:17.840 --> 0:55:20.920 she was at best inconvenience for he said like the 0:55:20.960 --> 0:55:23.680 space of a week. It must be hard to hear 0:55:23.719 --> 0:55:26.439 that the kid that you're in love with not only 0:55:26.480 --> 0:55:29.480 doesn't like you, but like it's you know, different than 0:55:29.560 --> 0:55:31.160 you've ever thought. And then there's got to be a 0:55:31.200 --> 0:55:33.800 lot of emotions that go through your mind there. But 0:55:33.800 --> 0:55:37.840 but it's not abandonment. This is a critical time, especially 0:55:37.880 --> 0:55:41.680 with what yeah, yeah, that could be and and they do. 0:55:41.840 --> 0:55:45.319 I like that she is the first to forgive him 0:55:45.360 --> 0:55:47.160 at least, and it makes sense to me that she 0:55:47.200 --> 0:55:49.840 would be the first person to be like, no, I 0:55:49.880 --> 0:55:53.400 love you, accept you and all that, because he's like 0:55:53.480 --> 0:55:55.960 chasing her when she's like walking her dog or something, 0:55:55.960 --> 0:55:58.640 which is I don't know. I like that scene, the 0:55:58.719 --> 0:56:04.160 reconciliations to me, at least, compared to the teen high 0:56:04.160 --> 0:56:06.960 school movies that were a thing when I was coming 0:56:07.000 --> 0:56:10.000 of age of like all those like late nineties like 0:56:10.120 --> 0:56:12.319 She's All that, Ten Things I Hate About You, Those 0:56:12.320 --> 0:56:15.400 were like the things I was watching, And none of 0:56:15.440 --> 0:56:19.960 those felt like real high school experiences or like anything 0:56:20.000 --> 0:56:22.520 that anyone was dealing with or going through because they 0:56:22.520 --> 0:56:25.520 were all based on these like crazy bets that get 0:56:25.600 --> 0:56:28.640 way out of hand and it I never saw anything 0:56:28.719 --> 0:56:33.040 like that in my high school experience. This movie felt 0:56:33.280 --> 0:56:35.799 way more real of a depiction of the high school 0:56:35.840 --> 0:56:38.480 experience than those. At least I bought it as a 0:56:38.560 --> 0:56:40.799 high school movie. Even though the kids were looking what 0:56:40.880 --> 0:56:43.759 they looked like, I bought it. I mean, it's like 0:56:43.760 --> 0:56:48.120 where everyone's gonna be five, which is almost always going 0:56:48.160 --> 0:56:51.200 to be true. It felt pretty I mean I also, 0:56:51.239 --> 0:56:53.200 it's like none of us have been in high school 0:56:53.200 --> 0:56:54.239 for a while, so I'm like, I don't know if 0:56:54.239 --> 0:56:57.200 this is what high school looks like. Like they had 0:56:57.200 --> 0:57:00.239 phones seems realistic to me, Like that was my bar 0:57:00.400 --> 0:57:03.120 for like does this make sense? I'm like, yeah, everyone's 0:57:03.160 --> 0:57:06.960 got fun, so clearly it's a high school. Another moment 0:57:07.000 --> 0:57:09.200 I liked, and I think this is part of why 0:57:09.280 --> 0:57:12.839 I think this movie feels a lot more realistic than 0:57:12.880 --> 0:57:16.600 a lot of it's like Teen Predecessors, is that the 0:57:16.680 --> 0:57:21.080 big romantic gesture that Martin tries to do is like 0:57:21.640 --> 0:57:23.360 very similar to the thing that we see in like 0:57:23.400 --> 0:57:27.720 Ten Things. Yeah, he should not of dancing across the 0:57:27.760 --> 0:57:31.960 bleachers shouldn't work in that movie, though, does work to 0:57:32.040 --> 0:57:35.600 win that character back over. So I like that we 0:57:35.720 --> 0:57:40.360 see it not working. I'm imposing I'm imposing a moratorium 0:57:40.400 --> 0:57:43.320 on big gestures. They're not done forever, but I just 0:57:43.360 --> 0:57:46.480 need I just need a break. Sure, they're very aggressive, 0:57:47.320 --> 0:57:50.760 they're big, Yeah they're huge. But I hate about them 0:57:50.800 --> 0:57:54.920 is they're too big, and I crumble under pressure daily, 0:57:55.200 --> 0:57:58.960 so it's putting a lot of pressure on the subject. 0:58:00.040 --> 0:58:04.480 It's crazy. It's like because then it's like you could 0:58:04.480 --> 0:58:09.120 do the most, like while you're performing this big thing 0:58:09.120 --> 0:58:11.680 in the football game, and then literally all people will 0:58:11.760 --> 0:58:15.400 remember is what the other person did to respond to him. 0:58:15.480 --> 0:58:17.680 That's what it's all out to. So it's really like 0:58:17.880 --> 0:58:20.960 you're defining their legacy in this moment. And I thought 0:58:20.960 --> 0:58:24.160 it was great that Abby was honest with him without 0:58:24.480 --> 0:58:27.840 you know, being like, you know, which would have been 0:58:28.280 --> 0:58:32.040 a worst choice for that. It's so that whole thing 0:58:32.080 --> 0:58:33.960 made me think, and I'm like, this is this is 0:58:34.000 --> 0:58:37.640 probably about gender in some way where I've had multiple 0:58:37.800 --> 0:58:40.320 conversations with like my friends from high school or my 0:58:40.320 --> 0:58:42.280 friends from when I was younger that like, if something 0:58:42.320 --> 0:58:44.720 like that ever happened, or if someone ever asked you 0:58:44.800 --> 0:58:46.959 to marry them at a sports game, that we would 0:58:47.040 --> 0:58:49.680 say yes so as not to humiliate them and then 0:58:49.800 --> 0:58:52.000 later tell them, actually, I can't do that. That's what 0:58:52.040 --> 0:58:55.160 I was protective. Yeah, I mean that was like, I 0:58:55.200 --> 0:58:56.920 don't know why I've had this. Probably every time I 0:58:56.920 --> 0:58:59.120 see a gesture like this, or you're out of sports 0:58:59.120 --> 0:59:02.080 game and it happened, You're like, even if I knew 0:59:02.120 --> 0:59:03.920 the answer is no, I would say yes to protect 0:59:03.920 --> 0:59:08.440 his feelings and then later be like, don't do big gestures. Literally, 0:59:08.480 --> 0:59:10.560 what would actually happen if this were to happen in 0:59:10.680 --> 0:59:13.000 high school is everyone in there would be losing their 0:59:13.040 --> 0:59:16.000 ship laughing, and then the girl would probably be like, 0:59:16.040 --> 0:59:18.840 oh my god, stop and she probably would like run out, 0:59:18.880 --> 0:59:20.400 like at least this is the way it would happen 0:59:20.440 --> 0:59:22.640 in my high school, so you would run away. But 0:59:22.880 --> 0:59:26.520 my assessment of this moment is kids are not this mature, 0:59:27.120 --> 0:59:28.880 Like she's not just going to measurably sit there and 0:59:28.960 --> 0:59:32.120 be like, I'm so sorry, but I just don't think 0:59:32.160 --> 0:59:35.080 of you like this, but I would like to be friends. 0:59:35.320 --> 0:59:37.840 Like no, no one's doing And that's the moment everyone's like, 0:59:37.880 --> 0:59:41.240 she's twenty seven, Oh my god, why is she here? 0:59:41.560 --> 0:59:43.600 I don't know. I feel like teens this day might 0:59:44.040 --> 0:59:47.120 might have done that. I don't know. It is okay 0:59:47.200 --> 0:59:49.600 for me. I thought it was a good aspirational scene 0:59:49.600 --> 0:59:53.400 of like, okay, best case scenario for everyone involved. That 0:59:53.640 --> 0:59:57.439 is a cool way to handle it. But they sort 0:59:57.440 --> 1:00:01.240 of lightly touch on how Martin becomes target of bullying 1:00:01.280 --> 1:00:03.480 after that, and there's just like a bunch of shitty 1:00:03.520 --> 1:00:07.560 memes about like shut down or like whatever. But I 1:00:07.600 --> 1:00:11.040 think I think realistically Abby would also be the target 1:00:11.560 --> 1:00:14.640 of some harassment based on that of like you fucking 1:00:14.680 --> 1:00:18.080 humiliated him, which is I think we're that whole mentality 1:00:18.120 --> 1:00:20.960 of like I would say yes even if that's not 1:00:21.000 --> 1:00:24.280 how I felt comes from of like you shouldn't humiliate 1:00:24.360 --> 1:00:26.400 someone in public, even if they're putting you on the 1:00:26.440 --> 1:00:30.080 spot by Yeah. Here's a few other scenes that I 1:00:30.120 --> 1:00:35.479 really liked the hetero coming out montage where Simon's talking 1:00:35.480 --> 1:00:38.040 about like why is the onus on queer people to 1:00:38.160 --> 1:00:40.880 have to come out? Like why can't straight people like 1:00:41.000 --> 1:00:44.240 you know this unfair societal expectation that's set up in 1:00:44.360 --> 1:00:47.600 some great parent acting in that in that a little bit, 1:00:48.480 --> 1:00:50.040 and then we already touched on this a little bit, 1:00:50.040 --> 1:00:53.120 but the scene where miss Albright is like yelling at 1:00:53.160 --> 1:00:58.439 the homophobic bully kids, that just energized to me for 1:00:59.160 --> 1:01:04.120 that was that was necessary. We love that character. And 1:01:04.160 --> 1:01:09.200 then she went all the way and yes, into infamy. 1:01:09.880 --> 1:01:12.640 And then I also really liked the scene where Simon 1:01:12.720 --> 1:01:15.640 yells at Martin for outing him because he's saying stuff 1:01:15.720 --> 1:01:19.080 like you took everything away from me in terms of 1:01:19.120 --> 1:01:22.240 like I get to Yeah, it's like I get to 1:01:22.720 --> 1:01:25.360 this should have been on my terms, how I do it, 1:01:25.400 --> 1:01:27.320 when I do it, to whom I do it, etcetera, 1:01:27.440 --> 1:01:32.640 And you took that away from me. And Martin, I 1:01:33.560 --> 1:01:36.600 mean that character is really well written. I think we 1:01:36.640 --> 1:01:40.880 all hate him rightfully so, but but I was just like, 1:01:40.920 --> 1:01:42.480 oh my god, he's going to log into the in 1:01:42.600 --> 1:01:47.120 cell board and then we're fucking screwed. Martin is the 1:01:47.200 --> 1:01:50.760 type in cells have bora posters. It's proof, It's just 1:01:50.840 --> 1:01:55.920 proof positive. I also like a large part of the 1:01:55.960 --> 1:02:00.720 movie is seeing a lot of like male vulnerable. Okay, 1:02:00.720 --> 1:02:02.720 so here's the thing. There's there's not that much to 1:02:02.760 --> 1:02:05.840 talk about in terms of the representation of women in 1:02:05.880 --> 1:02:09.920 this movie, which makes sense because it's a movie about 1:02:09.960 --> 1:02:19.280 a gay it's not called Love Alexis Rebecca Simon, So 1:02:20.040 --> 1:02:22.240 there's not a whole lot for us to talk about 1:02:22.360 --> 1:02:25.200 in those terms. But the things that I think are 1:02:25.200 --> 1:02:30.640 worth talking about are like the idea of masculinity, and 1:02:31.200 --> 1:02:37.120 you know it does right, I am not sure. Yeah, 1:02:37.480 --> 1:02:39.960 it's so weird because I'm so taken in by this 1:02:40.000 --> 1:02:41.920 movie that I wasn't paying as close attention that they 1:02:41.920 --> 1:02:44.480 should have it did call attention to the fact, I'm like, 1:02:44.520 --> 1:02:48.439 why aren't Leah and Abbey remotely friends for people who 1:02:48.440 --> 1:02:52.200 seem to be together of the time, they don't speak, 1:02:52.200 --> 1:02:54.520 we don't know. That was like one thing that bothered 1:02:54.560 --> 1:02:57.520 me about Abby's character in the way it was written 1:02:57.880 --> 1:03:00.680 was that as much as we know she's like, well rounded, 1:03:00.720 --> 1:03:04.840 she's a great person and also hot, she they like 1:03:04.920 --> 1:03:07.240 they do sort of like guys gal her a little 1:03:07.280 --> 1:03:09.439 bit because she has no female friends that we see. 1:03:09.480 --> 1:03:12.400 Even though she's around, She and Lea around or anything, 1:03:13.040 --> 1:03:16.160 hardly see them interact. Yes, yeah, which I know is like, 1:03:16.240 --> 1:03:17.880 I mean, that's not going to happen in this movie. 1:03:17.880 --> 1:03:20.560 It's not their movie. But I mean it was just 1:03:20.600 --> 1:03:26.120 weird a little bit more of them interacting. Not the 1:03:26.160 --> 1:03:29.440 worst thing to ever happen, but real quick about like 1:03:29.960 --> 1:03:35.080 male vulnerability that we see which we often don't see 1:03:35.400 --> 1:03:38.640 in most movies. Well, first of all, like Simon, the 1:03:38.640 --> 1:03:43.680 whole story revolves around him not being secure enough in 1:03:43.800 --> 1:03:47.880 his sexual identity to come out. We see like Nick 1:03:48.080 --> 1:03:51.880 being insecure about his like sexual inexperience. He's like, you know, 1:03:51.920 --> 1:03:55.520 I've only had sex with one time, right, Things were 1:03:55.520 --> 1:03:57.800 slipper United didn't put my dick in the right place, 1:03:57.840 --> 1:04:01.720 and I'm insecure, but it was cute. I really liked that. 1:04:02.160 --> 1:04:05.280 And then here's something that rubbed me the wrong way 1:04:05.280 --> 1:04:09.400 a little bit where Martin, as he's seeking help from Simon, 1:04:10.200 --> 1:04:12.760 say something like, I don't want your help changing me. 1:04:12.840 --> 1:04:15.400 I want your help getting Abby to like me for me, 1:04:15.480 --> 1:04:19.400 which I think is an important thing to happen, but 1:04:19.560 --> 1:04:22.680 I hate that it comes from this character who were 1:04:22.720 --> 1:04:26.120 meant to hate and who is wrong every other time 1:04:26.520 --> 1:04:30.880 in the movie. I wish we had seen It's almost 1:04:30.920 --> 1:04:35.000 like the movie didn't decide if who that kid really was, 1:04:35.440 --> 1:04:38.360 Like was he just annoying and like he's a good 1:04:38.400 --> 1:04:40.760 person at heart but he's annoying, or is he like 1:04:40.840 --> 1:04:45.560 chaotic evil He's like a vicious blackmailer who is blackmailing 1:04:45.640 --> 1:04:47.680 and you're supposed to feel bad for him. At certain 1:04:47.720 --> 1:04:49.880 points where it does feel a little I don't know 1:04:49.920 --> 1:04:52.400 this whole movie, and it's like it is what it is, 1:04:52.480 --> 1:04:54.320 kind of like what you're saying, but there are elements 1:04:54.320 --> 1:04:56.320 of it. I'm like, this is very focused groups to 1:04:56.520 --> 1:04:58.280 the point where I'm like, I'm not sure exactly who 1:04:58.280 --> 1:05:00.360 you're supposed to be that's what it is. It just 1:05:00.400 --> 1:05:02.720 feels like it was trying to be too many things 1:05:02.720 --> 1:05:04.920 for two different people, and it's like, I don't know, 1:05:05.240 --> 1:05:08.120 maybe the villain could have just been a villain, Like 1:05:08.400 --> 1:05:11.520 that's fine, he's irridamable, great, but like, don't make him 1:05:11.560 --> 1:05:16.520 this sympathetic, like, oh, he didn't mean to out you 1:05:16.560 --> 1:05:19.360 and funk your life up. It's like, No, the whole 1:05:19.400 --> 1:05:22.120 four dollars thing at the end, I'm like, that's not 1:05:22.280 --> 1:05:25.880 a redemption. He doesn't need sounds horrible, Like if you 1:05:25.880 --> 1:05:29.040 want to make arrangements for Butt six, you know emails 1:05:29.360 --> 1:05:34.080 like yeah, God, does anyone have any other thoughts about 1:05:34.080 --> 1:05:36.840 the movie? I would say that I'm going to shout 1:05:36.840 --> 1:05:39.720 out the soundtrack again. The sounds gave me everything I love. 1:05:39.800 --> 1:05:42.440 It's like late eighties early nineties throwbacks down. I love 1:05:42.520 --> 1:05:45.480 that song wild Heart. I love that song Strawberries and 1:05:45.520 --> 1:05:48.920 Cigarettes that Troy Sevan does on the soundtrack. It's really good. 1:05:49.280 --> 1:05:53.440 It's very evocative. It seems like they're almost like referencing 1:05:53.560 --> 1:05:58.480 John Hughes. But yeah, by doing that a brave observation 1:05:58.520 --> 1:06:00.560 by me, Jamie that I'm sure. And it was one 1:06:00.600 --> 1:06:03.680 of those movies where it was like maybe made maybe 1:06:03.720 --> 1:06:05.600 twice as good of a movie as that actually is. 1:06:05.840 --> 1:06:08.920 With the music. Oh yeah, I thought it actually like 1:06:09.080 --> 1:06:12.880 really served like an atmospheric purpose, which is what it 1:06:12.880 --> 1:06:19.640 should do. Wow. I think Alfred Willina could have played Simon. Sure, Honestly, 1:06:19.680 --> 1:06:21.560 I think they could really strategy make a sixteen year 1:06:21.560 --> 1:06:24.880 old man play a queer teenager. Now that his progress, 1:06:25.960 --> 1:06:27.919 it's so funny to even think about Simon as being 1:06:27.960 --> 1:06:31.000 queer because he's just so straight the whole time. Well okay, 1:06:31.000 --> 1:06:34.520 stylized completely straight. That is one thing I wanted to 1:06:34.520 --> 1:06:36.720 touch on because we talked a little bit about this. 1:06:37.000 --> 1:06:40.200 Another criticism around this, Yeah, well he's just like, you know, 1:06:40.480 --> 1:06:45.320 he's the definition of walking the world and with complete privilege. 1:06:45.440 --> 1:06:48.480 I mean, he doesn't even need to code switch. That's 1:06:48.480 --> 1:06:53.200 just who is who he is, like to play Devil's advocate. 1:06:53.240 --> 1:06:56.600 And again I'm coming from a place of not being 1:06:56.800 --> 1:07:02.840 a gay man. Uh, it needed to be said, Caitlin. 1:07:03.040 --> 1:07:05.320 I know that people have been wondering that I've been 1:07:07.880 --> 1:07:10.240 am I blue? Was I blue? I don't know? Maybe 1:07:10.280 --> 1:07:13.160 I anyway, So we talked a little bit about this 1:07:13.160 --> 1:07:16.600 on their recent DEBS episode. But in that episode, I 1:07:16.640 --> 1:07:21.040 appreciated that because any time like a lesbian is portrayed 1:07:21.080 --> 1:07:27.280 in a mainstream movie, usually it is someone who presents 1:07:27.320 --> 1:07:30.800 as very butch. You know, they're they're made to adhere 1:07:30.840 --> 1:07:35.240 to these like rigid stereotypes. And similarly, when gay men 1:07:35.320 --> 1:07:39.680 are portrayed in mainstream movies, they're usually presented in such 1:07:39.720 --> 1:07:43.520 a way that they're very flamboyant, because I think Hollywood's like, well, 1:07:43.520 --> 1:07:46.760 how will anyone know they're gay unless we make them 1:07:46.920 --> 1:07:50.080 so flamboyant. Here's what I would say about it. It's like, 1:07:50.200 --> 1:07:52.520 you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't. 1:07:52.600 --> 1:07:56.320 Because if you depict the kid as being more gay 1:07:56.360 --> 1:08:00.240 acting quote unquote right, then you get a bunch of 1:08:00.240 --> 1:08:03.280 people that are like, well, there we are again depicted 1:08:03.360 --> 1:08:06.040 as being this way. And then if you depict the 1:08:06.120 --> 1:08:09.320 kids being very straight acting, especially when he's played by 1:08:09.320 --> 1:08:11.840 a straight actor in real life, you get this thing 1:08:11.880 --> 1:08:14.440 of like that feels like a raiser. But there are 1:08:14.480 --> 1:08:17.519 tons of gay men that act like simon, lots of 1:08:17.520 --> 1:08:20.559 gay men I wore masculine. It's hard to find a balance, 1:08:20.560 --> 1:08:23.200 and I think it speaks to it speaks less to 1:08:24.040 --> 1:08:26.640 what these individual films are doing, and more to the 1:08:26.680 --> 1:08:29.599 fact that there just isn't and hasn't ever been enough 1:08:29.600 --> 1:08:34.080 representation period because every single time one character comes out, 1:08:34.400 --> 1:08:36.760 we put all the weight in the world on it. Like, 1:08:36.840 --> 1:08:39.160 for example, when I was growing up and there was 1:08:39.200 --> 1:08:41.920 Will and Grace, it was like, are you a Will 1:08:42.080 --> 1:08:44.800 or a Jack? And we didn't know what it was 1:08:44.840 --> 1:08:47.439 like to be anything else, So it was either you 1:08:47.960 --> 1:08:50.760 are really straight, acting to where you would never know 1:08:50.960 --> 1:08:53.720 and you even even the people that you date are 1:08:53.800 --> 1:08:56.800 like really even more straight acting like cops. I don't 1:08:56.800 --> 1:08:59.880 know if you remember Will's boyfriend played by Bobby kind 1:08:59.880 --> 1:09:03.160 of Ali, who was like this like super butch cop 1:09:04.080 --> 1:09:08.320 or your Jack, who essentially is a like a joke, 1:09:08.920 --> 1:09:14.240 you know what I mean, Like he was abroad sweeping stereotype. 1:09:14.600 --> 1:09:17.679 So I think as a result of that, it's hard 1:09:17.960 --> 1:09:20.800 to gauge like whether or not this movie made a 1:09:20.840 --> 1:09:24.920 mistake or not, because like there just isn't enough representation, 1:09:25.000 --> 1:09:27.000 and you can't say that people aren't out there and 1:09:27.000 --> 1:09:29.400 are gay and they act like that, because they do. 1:09:29.600 --> 1:09:32.479 There's a whole spectrum as it turns out. I don't know, 1:09:32.640 --> 1:09:34.680 I think, like this is weird to say, but like 1:09:34.720 --> 1:09:37.040 as someone who sort of identifies as being somewhere in 1:09:37.120 --> 1:09:39.479 the middle. When I want to turn it on, I 1:09:39.520 --> 1:09:43.120 can be very flamboyant, and then the way I'm speaking 1:09:43.160 --> 1:09:44.960 to you guys right now, you know, I don't know 1:09:45.040 --> 1:09:48.439 if someone would quote unquote no, it's just hard because 1:09:48.479 --> 1:09:52.200 like we can't see ourselves. All we see are like 1:09:52.400 --> 1:09:55.280 each other, and then depictions of ourselves in media, and 1:09:55.320 --> 1:09:57.439 we're just not up there that much. So I think, 1:09:57.479 --> 1:10:00.559 like I don't necessarily have too much of a problem 1:09:59.840 --> 1:10:04.400 with with this particular movie in that regard. Maybe maybe 1:10:04.439 --> 1:10:06.120 maybe there's something to the fact that they have a 1:10:06.160 --> 1:10:09.559 straight actor playing him. Yes, which is like a case 1:10:09.600 --> 1:10:13.000 by case it always feels tough. Yeah, I was gonna 1:10:13.000 --> 1:10:15.400 ask how you felt about well, because I'll say this, like, 1:10:16.400 --> 1:10:18.880 for example, for the auditions that I go on, it's 1:10:18.880 --> 1:10:21.720 hard because a lot of the characters are just like stereotypes, 1:10:21.800 --> 1:10:25.080 like and you can feel them trying on the page 1:10:25.120 --> 1:10:27.679 to not make it like that, like in the breakdown, 1:10:27.680 --> 1:10:30.479 it won't be like gay and he knows it. You know, 1:10:30.600 --> 1:10:33.960 he wears a fucking crazy scarf. He loves to wave 1:10:34.080 --> 1:10:37.439 his finger. It's not like that. But it's like whenever 1:10:37.479 --> 1:10:41.000 anyone writes girl comma in any line, it's like, Okay, 1:10:41.040 --> 1:10:43.519 you try too hard, you know what I mean. But 1:10:43.680 --> 1:10:46.120 it's at least interesting and at least good to see 1:10:46.120 --> 1:10:49.400 them trying. But I don't think we're ever going to 1:10:49.479 --> 1:10:52.600 get to the point where we're where we're not precious 1:10:52.640 --> 1:10:55.479 about each and every character depiction up there until we 1:10:55.560 --> 1:11:00.200 see more. And unfortunately, like I'm not being offered to 1:11:00.280 --> 1:11:02.800 play a lot of straight parts, and I don't know 1:11:02.840 --> 1:11:04.920 a lot of gay actors that are out there openly 1:11:04.960 --> 1:11:08.680 gay who are just routinely booking straight roles. So when 1:11:08.720 --> 1:11:13.280 it feels like the vice versa is true, often it's 1:11:13.320 --> 1:11:16.880 frustrating because there's tons of gay actors out there that 1:11:16.920 --> 1:11:20.040 are just as talented as these straight guys. And yet 1:11:20.280 --> 1:11:25.560 Heath Ledger and Jake Jillen Hall, allegedly straight actors um 1:11:25.600 --> 1:11:29.879 performing and broke Back Mountain like the seminal gay romance 1:11:29.920 --> 1:11:32.800 of our time, and then to see that continue to 1:11:32.840 --> 1:11:35.240 do that as an eighteen and like Love Simon is 1:11:35.280 --> 1:11:38.639 like the gay mainstream movie and Nick Robinson is playing 1:11:38.640 --> 1:11:40.800 it and he's straight. I'm not saying they all didn't 1:11:40.800 --> 1:11:44.880 do a great job. It's just about representation. Yeah, and 1:11:44.880 --> 1:11:47.680 and the fact that I mean this, I believe that 1:11:47.720 --> 1:11:50.320 this was adapted by and originally written by, like it 1:11:50.360 --> 1:11:53.120 was written by top to bottom straight people. Yeah, the 1:11:53.160 --> 1:11:57.599 director Greg Berlante is gay, so there's that. But like 1:11:57.640 --> 1:12:00.320 you said with the focus group comment, you know this 1:12:00.400 --> 1:12:02.799 was filtered through a straight line that this is essentially 1:12:02.800 --> 1:12:06.120 the Abbey of like of like you know, it's like 1:12:06.280 --> 1:12:10.599 a gay thing for straight people. Um, so it just 1:12:10.600 --> 1:12:17.000 feels like that's even named abbey. I was surprised to 1:12:17.120 --> 1:12:20.280 learn the novel that this movie is based on was 1:12:20.320 --> 1:12:23.880 written by a woman I thought for sure a gay man, 1:12:24.240 --> 1:12:27.519 but it was written by a straight lady, which is like, yeah, 1:12:27.640 --> 1:12:29.599 I mean with with stories like that, it's so hard 1:12:29.680 --> 1:12:31.479 to find a story, and I think it does speak 1:12:31.520 --> 1:12:34.120 to like the amount of pressure that is put on 1:12:34.280 --> 1:12:36.680 queer stories because there's just not enough of them. But 1:12:36.720 --> 1:12:39.599 it's like, I feel like you can always trace it 1:12:39.640 --> 1:12:46.479 back to a pretty heteronormative source, which is just when 1:12:46.560 --> 1:12:50.360 you actually lived that experience. Okay, So I really very 1:12:50.400 --> 1:12:53.000 closely almost went through this exact experience, like I wasn't 1:12:53.000 --> 1:12:55.320 out it in high school. But like the way that 1:12:55.360 --> 1:12:58.839 he goes about his life the interest he like claims 1:12:58.880 --> 1:13:01.640 to have, Like I didn't not see myself in it, 1:13:01.880 --> 1:13:03.400 and so that's why I was a little bit sensitive 1:13:03.439 --> 1:13:07.000 to the criticism. But yet now having like time with 1:13:07.080 --> 1:13:11.240 the movie, I can see the criticism you wish because 1:13:11.320 --> 1:13:14.080 it really got it, really was there. You wish it 1:13:14.120 --> 1:13:16.200 had really gotten it, you know what I mean. And 1:13:16.600 --> 1:13:19.400 I do think with like maybe three or four more 1:13:19.479 --> 1:13:23.240 like gay creatives in high positions there, or like maybe 1:13:23.280 --> 1:13:26.439 even a gay actor, like just a suggestion could have 1:13:26.479 --> 1:13:29.240 been made of like I feel like he's too upset here, 1:13:29.320 --> 1:13:31.320 or he's not upset enough here, you know what I mean. 1:13:31.360 --> 1:13:34.240 Like there was some specific emotional movement moments where I 1:13:34.280 --> 1:13:38.160 was like watching him act the situation and I was like, 1:13:38.479 --> 1:13:42.320 it's so specifically something else, you know what I mean, 1:13:42.320 --> 1:13:44.559 just as an actor watching and I was like, this 1:13:44.640 --> 1:13:48.519 is all on the page, but you're not getting it 1:13:48.640 --> 1:13:51.320 right now, or just like or like you're getting it 1:13:51.439 --> 1:13:53.639 right now, but the script isn't allowing you to say 1:13:53.680 --> 1:13:55.680 what it really is. Like there was a couple of 1:13:55.720 --> 1:13:58.479 times where it all came together, like him saying like 1:13:58.760 --> 1:14:01.080 this was my thing to do and you took that 1:14:01.160 --> 1:14:03.800 from me. That's really good, you know what I mean. 1:14:03.840 --> 1:14:06.040 That was like right there, But then there was like 1:14:06.560 --> 1:14:09.040 moments like with the dad and the mom where I 1:14:09.080 --> 1:14:12.080 just felt like more emotional response was needed, or just 1:14:12.160 --> 1:14:14.439 like little tiny things like where it just didn't feel 1:14:14.479 --> 1:14:16.920 measured in the right way, where I was like, chemically, 1:14:17.000 --> 1:14:19.400 I think that this actor just maybe is just not 1:14:19.800 --> 1:14:23.360 capable of acting this scenario. But I found him very 1:14:23.360 --> 1:14:28.840 appealing overall. So focus group wise, for everyone, the movie 1:14:28.880 --> 1:14:32.200 works for me who went to the specific experience and 1:14:32.240 --> 1:14:35.320 it is a specific experience and should be treated as such. 1:14:35.720 --> 1:14:37.800 I could just see the little things that weren't right, 1:14:38.240 --> 1:14:40.719 So so it's like, yes, I'm I happy the movie exists. 1:14:42.040 --> 1:14:45.000 Is it like a fucking Grand Slam home run to me? No, 1:14:45.320 --> 1:14:47.559 because it wasn't as specific as it should have been, 1:14:47.600 --> 1:14:49.800 which is the point I made before about like that's 1:14:49.800 --> 1:14:51.679 when you really get at the heart of these things 1:14:51.920 --> 1:14:55.679 and move people, is when you actually get specific. Because 1:14:55.720 --> 1:14:58.240 I was more moved by Precious than I was by 1:14:58.320 --> 1:15:01.000 Love Simon, and I didn't I I'm not. I didn't 1:15:01.000 --> 1:15:02.720 go through that, you know what I mean. But I 1:15:02.720 --> 1:15:06.640 can appreciate the specificity and the attention to detail that 1:15:06.680 --> 1:15:09.799 goes into something like that, whereas this was like, Okay, 1:15:09.840 --> 1:15:11.519 you made you made a movie that tried to make 1:15:11.560 --> 1:15:13.479 a lot of money and make straight people happy and 1:15:13.520 --> 1:15:16.599 make them feel good for seeing it, which I am 1:15:16.640 --> 1:15:20.280 guilty of, but but you should feel like that. It 1:15:20.280 --> 1:15:23.400 should make people feel good. Yeah, I mean, it's there's 1:15:23.439 --> 1:15:27.719 so many double I don't know. Yeah, with with this, yeah, 1:15:27.760 --> 1:15:29.439 it's a tough one. And it all comes down to, 1:15:29.520 --> 1:15:32.040 like I said before, they're just not being enough. So 1:15:32.080 --> 1:15:34.040 this is the first one, and I'm happy it was 1:15:34.080 --> 1:15:37.240 the first one, but because you know what, you get 1:15:37.280 --> 1:15:39.439 into like a lot of the nitty gritty about like 1:15:39.479 --> 1:15:41.760 what actually goes down in Ethan Ethan's life, and then 1:15:41.880 --> 1:15:44.360 it is a sad movie, you know what I mean. 1:15:45.000 --> 1:15:47.400 But I do think like this movie opens the door 1:15:47.520 --> 1:15:51.080 up to this conversation, and therefore, because this conversation exists, 1:15:51.479 --> 1:15:53.640 that movie is more likely to be seen. And I 1:15:53.640 --> 1:15:55.559 do think our I should be open to the reality 1:15:55.600 --> 1:15:57.280 of what it's like to be a queer person of color. 1:15:57.360 --> 1:16:00.559 I don't think it is like and so you know, 1:16:00.600 --> 1:16:02.679 it's even been eye opening for me in the last 1:16:02.760 --> 1:16:06.840 few years, Like in my late twenties, I'm much much 1:16:06.920 --> 1:16:09.719 closer with my close friends that are gay and also 1:16:09.760 --> 1:16:12.280 people of color, and it's just like, you know, the 1:16:12.320 --> 1:16:15.680 sexual realities of that, the romantic realities of that, the 1:16:15.800 --> 1:16:18.840 social realities of that, the the realities of that in 1:16:18.920 --> 1:16:22.160 terms of online dating, in terms of useach of the apps, 1:16:22.200 --> 1:16:25.799 it's like very dark and I we haven't even touched 1:16:25.800 --> 1:16:30.840 on it. My best friend is a gay man. Brag 1:16:34.439 --> 1:16:38.000 is no, he just bought a house. He purchased with 1:16:39.000 --> 1:16:46.400 the house um. But when he was single and on Grinder, 1:16:46.600 --> 1:16:51.360 he would show me all these profiles of white guys 1:16:51.400 --> 1:16:55.280 being like no blacks, no fats, no Asians, is the 1:16:55.320 --> 1:16:58.160 popular mask only, like all that kind of stuff, And 1:16:58.200 --> 1:17:01.560 I was like, wow, there's still a lot of discrimination 1:17:01.640 --> 1:17:06.559 within a community that is marginalized and being repressed. So 1:17:06.720 --> 1:17:11.000 that that's the disease amongst especially white gaze is you know, 1:17:11.320 --> 1:17:15.600 they have this narrative in their heads. We have this 1:17:15.760 --> 1:17:21.120 narrative in our heads of we've been oppressed. We think 1:17:21.160 --> 1:17:24.439 it might be as painful or equal to anyone else 1:17:24.479 --> 1:17:27.920 who's been oppressed. And then when we do overcome that 1:17:28.000 --> 1:17:31.840 quote unquote oppression um, which most of us do in 1:17:31.920 --> 1:17:38.280 our teens or early twenties, we then feel entitled to saying, well, 1:17:38.320 --> 1:17:40.640 I've been through enough, now I'm allowed to have my 1:17:40.720 --> 1:17:45.200 quote unquote preferences. And so a lot of people aren't 1:17:45.240 --> 1:17:47.519 ready to reckon with the fact that, like they have 1:17:47.680 --> 1:17:51.120 racism in them just because you've been oppressed in terms 1:17:51.120 --> 1:17:55.280 of a society like that that you're a sexual minority 1:17:55.360 --> 1:17:58.720 or your your sexual preferences are keep you in the minority. 1:17:58.880 --> 1:18:02.800 Like they think the they're like better than racism, they 1:18:02.880 --> 1:18:07.800 think that they're immune to it. Yeah, it festers, and 1:18:07.880 --> 1:18:10.240 of course, I mean we like with white feminism, you 1:18:10.240 --> 1:18:12.360 know what I mean, Like it just doesn't include everyone. 1:18:12.880 --> 1:18:15.880 And so then you're on these apps and you think 1:18:15.880 --> 1:18:19.200 to yourself, like we should be the last people where 1:18:19.240 --> 1:18:23.960 this is like thriving. But like you can walk in 1:18:24.000 --> 1:18:27.240 the streets and not hear something racist. If you go 1:18:27.280 --> 1:18:30.960 on these apps, you will see something racist, you will, 1:18:31.080 --> 1:18:34.200 I mean. And then there's all the like transphobia within 1:18:34.600 --> 1:18:38.320 the queer community. You know, there's all kinds of like 1:18:38.520 --> 1:18:43.360 you know, discrimination within these communities. And it feels like 1:18:43.880 --> 1:18:47.200 we're making strides, feels like things are getting a little better. 1:18:47.760 --> 1:18:50.720 But and I think that the movie Existing is a 1:18:50.760 --> 1:18:53.960 good thing because I think ultimately like, and I know 1:18:53.960 --> 1:18:56.720 that's not even what we're debating, but um, like, it 1:18:56.760 --> 1:18:59.679 has been a debate, like amongst gay friends of mine 1:19:00.120 --> 1:19:03.040 who really don't like the movie, because I think there's 1:19:03.080 --> 1:19:07.800 a mentality that this movie like purports to represent more 1:19:07.840 --> 1:19:09.760 people than it does, and I don't think that's true. 1:19:09.800 --> 1:19:12.719 I think that this movie is telling a story about 1:19:12.760 --> 1:19:16.720 a kid coming to terms with the sexuality. Um But, 1:19:16.880 --> 1:19:18.439 like I said, because it's the only one, we put 1:19:18.479 --> 1:19:20.559 all this weight on it. And I think that because 1:19:20.600 --> 1:19:24.280 this movie exists, we're able to have these conversations about 1:19:24.280 --> 1:19:26.240 what it gets right about what it doesn't. And that's 1:19:26.280 --> 1:19:30.680 film criticism, which is for many people what advances the 1:19:30.880 --> 1:19:36.760 cinematic form anyway. So I've seen the conversation truly, especially 1:19:36.800 --> 1:19:42.439 in this room. Yes we're such heroes, but it's it's 1:19:42.439 --> 1:19:45.200 been very interesting to see the conversation about this movie. 1:19:45.280 --> 1:19:48.040 Like I had. I talked with someone one time I 1:19:48.120 --> 1:19:50.400 really didn't like this criticism of it, but he said 1:19:50.720 --> 1:19:54.640 that he felt that the Natasha Rothwell character was a 1:19:54.720 --> 1:19:59.080 magical Negro and I was like, that's a really interesting, 1:19:59.400 --> 1:20:02.240 weird to say, and he was like, the movie uses 1:20:02.280 --> 1:20:04.960 her to like save the day and it's not fair. 1:20:05.040 --> 1:20:06.559 And I was like, yeah, but what are you saying, 1:20:06.600 --> 1:20:09.880 like if that part was played by Chelsea Handler? Would 1:20:10.280 --> 1:20:12.280 would would it make it like you could not change 1:20:12.320 --> 1:20:14.640 the script, and would it make the movie stronger? And 1:20:14.840 --> 1:20:17.360 so now, and that's when I think there was a 1:20:17.400 --> 1:20:19.679 real fever picture on this movie where in the gay 1:20:19.720 --> 1:20:24.559 community conversations like this we're happening, that we're truly picking 1:20:24.600 --> 1:20:28.200 it apart bit by bit, And I think that is 1:20:28.240 --> 1:20:29.920 not helpful, you know what I mean? Because I think 1:20:29.960 --> 1:20:32.400 that's Hasha Rothwell is amazing in the movie, and I'm 1:20:32.400 --> 1:20:35.120 sure she feels fine being in it. I'm sure she 1:20:35.160 --> 1:20:38.280 doesn't feel utilized in that way. We just want her 1:20:38.280 --> 1:20:40.680 to get paid as much as humanly possible. I was 1:20:40.760 --> 1:20:42.479 just like, I was just like, it's odd to me 1:20:42.600 --> 1:20:45.599 to like use that criticism against this movie, but that's 1:20:45.600 --> 1:20:47.920 what was happening, and that's what happens. I think when 1:20:47.920 --> 1:20:51.360 there's just not enough representation, that's all there to talk about, 1:20:51.360 --> 1:20:56.760 then we'll talk about it. I mean, the thesis of 1:20:57.160 --> 1:21:00.760 this discussion and our whole podcast is we need more 1:21:00.920 --> 1:21:08.840 and better representation. We okay, let's okay, bachtel test. I 1:21:08.880 --> 1:21:12.800 think there are a few scenes that come close. I 1:21:12.920 --> 1:21:15.720 tried to document all of them, but I think I 1:21:15.840 --> 1:21:18.400 might have missed some. But like, there's a scene where 1:21:18.640 --> 1:21:21.000 the mom is like, let's watch the affair, and then 1:21:21.040 --> 1:21:23.120 Simon says, we can't watch the affair as a family, 1:21:23.160 --> 1:21:25.000 and the mom says why not, and then the sister 1:21:25.200 --> 1:21:28.000 chimes in, Norah, we know her name, she says, because 1:21:28.000 --> 1:21:30.400 it's all about sex, and then mom says, god forbid. 1:21:30.479 --> 1:21:33.200 We see people make love. So it's like a conversation 1:21:33.240 --> 1:21:36.280 where men are present and then also contributing to the conversation. 1:21:36.360 --> 1:21:40.679 But there's like a two line exchange where just women 1:21:40.720 --> 1:21:44.000 are tugging yeah, and they need to be alone, not 1:21:44.200 --> 1:21:47.880 nerve version of it. All these different caveats, I feel 1:21:47.920 --> 1:21:51.760 like maybe yeah, I feel I'm I'm not so quick 1:21:51.760 --> 1:21:55.400 to say this one counts. And it's also based on yeah, 1:21:55.400 --> 1:21:57.680 it's also based on our response Simon has to it 1:21:58.080 --> 1:22:03.479 and they're talking about head roast sex, right, so probably not. 1:22:04.280 --> 1:22:07.439 There is a scene where Abby says I just found 1:22:07.479 --> 1:22:10.439 a press on nail in my salad, and then Abby 1:22:10.479 --> 1:22:14.560 and Leah at the same time say Debbie. They're accusing 1:22:14.640 --> 1:22:20.160 Debbie of her nails. I'm so sick of these passes. 1:22:20.200 --> 1:22:23.200 I think I don't know how to just be like, 1:22:23.479 --> 1:22:26.160 who is that fucking judge who was like, I can't 1:22:26.160 --> 1:22:27.760 define porn, but I know it when I see it. 1:22:27.760 --> 1:22:29.599 That's how I feel about the Betel Test at this point. 1:22:30.200 --> 1:22:33.080 I'm like, I'm no more of these bullshit passes. Yeah, 1:22:33.280 --> 1:22:37.960 and then there is a scene where Leah says, thanks 1:22:37.960 --> 1:22:40.800 for letting me stay over. Simon's mom says, you've been 1:22:40.800 --> 1:22:43.160 staying over for ten years. You don't have to thank us, 1:22:43.280 --> 1:22:46.599 and then Leah says, oh, yeah, that's so that as 1:22:46.640 --> 1:22:49.760 close as it comes insightful, know, I know, I know, 1:22:50.160 --> 1:22:52.960 I'm surprised women don't interact more in this. I don't 1:22:52.960 --> 1:22:55.439 know if I'm surprised. I guess based on how many 1:22:55.479 --> 1:22:58.519 female characters there are, we would have a few more 1:22:58.800 --> 1:23:04.000 interactions betwe mean women, but we only have like these 1:23:04.000 --> 1:23:07.559 and then a couple that don't pass the test. And 1:23:07.600 --> 1:23:09.680 I guess that's not any objective of the movie. But 1:23:09.720 --> 1:23:12.600 there are always like opportunities to make this, and I 1:23:12.640 --> 1:23:15.439 feel like Leah and Abbey are the biggest missed opportunity there. 1:23:15.920 --> 1:23:19.919 They're around each other the whole time. Yeah, and friends 1:23:20.240 --> 1:23:23.840 and allegedly. And also I'm realizing right now that the 1:23:23.920 --> 1:23:27.040 mom and Leah discussing her staying over that can't pass 1:23:27.080 --> 1:23:28.960 the Bechtel test because they're talking about the house and 1:23:29.040 --> 1:23:32.439 that house identifies as a male. I think it's very big. 1:23:32.479 --> 1:23:35.280 It's making itself known, and it's like taking up a 1:23:35.280 --> 1:23:37.920 lot of up a lot of space. Like and also 1:23:38.000 --> 1:23:40.280 the subtext is like, thanks for letting me stay over 1:23:40.479 --> 1:23:44.200 with Simon, which also why was that allowed? I'm like, 1:23:44.280 --> 1:23:48.559 I wish my mom when I was seventeen playing while 1:23:48.600 --> 1:23:50.920 they were in that room. Is there a boat in 1:23:51.000 --> 1:23:57.160 the body? I'm on a week for I was like, fine, 1:23:57.360 --> 1:23:59.360 want to let me know. I was like, this is 1:23:59.400 --> 1:24:04.360 like a sex see adults romantic song. Very the whole 1:24:04.400 --> 1:24:06.559 film was horny, and I like that about it. Oh yes, 1:24:06.600 --> 1:24:08.840 I'm fully I think it would have may be more 1:24:08.920 --> 1:24:12.200 uncomfortable if the actors were underage, but they were so 1:24:12.240 --> 1:24:17.760 clearly forty years old. I'm like, this is great. There, No, 1:24:17.880 --> 1:24:22.840 the younger sister was older than they actually were, like 1:24:22.960 --> 1:24:27.840 drama school together. Yeah, she she's in the affair Like 1:24:27.840 --> 1:24:33.040 that was an inside joke. Oh gosh, okay, so let's 1:24:33.120 --> 1:24:36.599 write the movie on our nipple scale zero to five 1:24:36.720 --> 1:24:40.160 nipples based on its portrayal of women. Oh, that's true, 1:24:40.400 --> 1:24:42.559 this is true. It's not fair for this right because 1:24:43.400 --> 1:24:46.559 I will. I would give it a five though, would you? Yeah, 1:24:46.600 --> 1:24:49.639 because I think that the female characters that presents are 1:24:49.680 --> 1:24:52.400 all three dimensional, I would agree with that, I do, 1:24:52.560 --> 1:24:54.439 you know what I mean? They're not the focus. They're 1:24:54.479 --> 1:24:57.040 not driving the story, or at least if they are, 1:24:57.080 --> 1:25:01.000 it's passively because it's Martin like black Aileen Simon because 1:25:01.000 --> 1:25:04.479 he wants to funck Abby. So they're not necessarily very 1:25:04.520 --> 1:25:07.360 active characters. But the way they're written, the way they're presented, 1:25:07.479 --> 1:25:14.479 I do feel like they're dynamic, interesting, multidimensional characters. Yeah. 1:25:14.520 --> 1:25:16.559 They in terms of just being in a script and 1:25:16.600 --> 1:25:19.960 being supporting characters. They're written well and I helped that 1:25:20.160 --> 1:25:23.360 the story. And they're not functional in a way that 1:25:23.560 --> 1:25:27.080 it feels like we're losing their integrity as characters, you 1:25:27.080 --> 1:25:29.840 know what I mean. The mom is like progressive and 1:25:29.960 --> 1:25:33.160 lovely and a good mom, you know, but she's also 1:25:33.280 --> 1:25:36.320 interested in other things besides being a mom, which is 1:25:36.360 --> 1:25:38.559 something we don't see in a lot of these movies. 1:25:38.680 --> 1:25:40.559 And it's so rare that we know what the mom's 1:25:40.640 --> 1:25:42.479 job is, and we don't know what the dad's job is. 1:25:42.479 --> 1:25:46.200 That never happens, and it seems like, I mean, based 1:25:46.240 --> 1:25:47.680 on that unless it was like a cut scene, it 1:25:47.680 --> 1:25:50.439 seems like she's the breadwinner of the family, which is cool. 1:25:50.640 --> 1:25:52.880 And also, you know the character of Abby like she 1:25:52.960 --> 1:25:55.519 does she stays true to herself the whole time, Like 1:25:55.600 --> 1:25:58.880 she doesn't just allow herself to be talked about or 1:25:58.920 --> 1:26:03.920 like dealt if by the men. She is truthful to herself. 1:26:04.000 --> 1:26:07.759 You know, Leah the character, she says what she feels 1:26:07.920 --> 1:26:10.640 and it's well performed and you get the sense that 1:26:10.680 --> 1:26:13.840 she'll go on to be a dynamic person. Yeah, there 1:26:13.960 --> 1:26:16.479 there was I the word I think about. I mean, 1:26:16.479 --> 1:26:18.840 it's like Anne, it's kind of rare that you know 1:26:19.200 --> 1:26:22.479 Simon's two female friends better than you know Nick. I 1:26:22.479 --> 1:26:25.400 know almost nothing about Nick. He plays soccer, he had 1:26:25.439 --> 1:26:29.080 sex ones, like that's all we know about him. Really, um, 1:26:29.120 --> 1:26:33.360 where you do have like full scenes where I appreciated 1:26:33.400 --> 1:26:36.000 the extra work going into Abby's character of like, Okay, 1:26:36.080 --> 1:26:38.600 she's new, she's from a lower class background. We know 1:26:38.720 --> 1:26:40.960 she has like her dad is an alcohol like these 1:26:40.960 --> 1:26:43.000 are all things I think fifteen years ago we would 1:26:43.000 --> 1:26:46.000 never find out about those characters. And the same with Leah, 1:26:46.000 --> 1:26:48.680 of you know, I mean, I can strongly identify with 1:26:48.720 --> 1:26:50.640 her being the long suffering, being in love with her 1:26:50.640 --> 1:26:53.000 gay best friend and just being like no, but like 1:26:53.760 --> 1:26:57.400 it's played responsibly. I'm glad that. I mean. The only 1:26:57.439 --> 1:27:00.200 thing that made me feel weird is Leah turning her 1:27:00.240 --> 1:27:05.160 back on Simon in his moment of utmost need. That 1:27:05.760 --> 1:27:08.719 was very put off by. But I'm glad that Abby. 1:27:08.800 --> 1:27:10.800 I mean, Abby I think is like the best female 1:27:10.880 --> 1:27:13.960 character in the story because she she is always like 1:27:14.000 --> 1:27:16.479 almost to a point where it's unrealistic for a teenager 1:27:16.520 --> 1:27:20.519 to be so like mature and always knows the right 1:27:20.720 --> 1:27:23.280 thing to do. Um. But it's I mean, it's like 1:27:23.280 --> 1:27:26.760 if we're making a movie to set an example for teenagers, 1:27:26.800 --> 1:27:29.880 which in theory this movie would be, then she's great 1:27:29.960 --> 1:27:32.439 and I think it works works well, you know, and 1:27:32.600 --> 1:27:35.040 and good for the little girl. She got a queens 1:27:35.040 --> 1:27:38.120 and art. Yeah, incredible. I hope she gets better at cooking, 1:27:39.840 --> 1:27:43.280 because women be cooking women. But to me that there's 1:27:43.400 --> 1:27:46.360 enough of like yeah, yeah, I I think I'm going 1:27:46.400 --> 1:27:49.320 to give it. I'm not prepared to give it a five. 1:27:49.479 --> 1:27:51.760 I think I'm going to give it maybe a three 1:27:51.760 --> 1:27:56.880 and a half because you, well, we we should, we 1:27:56.880 --> 1:28:00.559 should ask that question more. Yeah, we'll be because we 1:28:00.960 --> 1:28:04.880 in our ratings we also take into account like the 1:28:04.920 --> 1:28:09.559 representation of people of color, of queer people, of other 1:28:09.640 --> 1:28:13.120 marginalized groups of which we almost never see on screen. 1:28:14.000 --> 1:28:18.280 But because as we've talked about, like there's an introduction 1:28:18.479 --> 1:28:21.920 of at least two queer people who are also people 1:28:22.000 --> 1:28:26.200 of color, and the movie glossing over their experience, their 1:28:26.240 --> 1:28:29.720 specific experience, I feel like that could have been I mean, 1:28:29.760 --> 1:28:33.200 the movie probably should have been like Love Bram or 1:28:33.560 --> 1:28:36.479 Love Ethan, Like I mean, I think maybe we'll get 1:28:36.520 --> 1:28:40.880 there someday, but get that, you know what I mean, Like, 1:28:44.320 --> 1:28:48.200 so it will get that we're slowly progressing is a 1:28:48.240 --> 1:28:52.040 people in a culture and in the film industry. But um, 1:28:52.080 --> 1:28:54.439 and then, I don't know, this is tricky just because 1:28:54.439 --> 1:28:57.439 like women aren't the focus. It's a tricky movie too. 1:28:57.800 --> 1:29:00.280 But if you're going to have a movie that where 1:29:00.280 --> 1:29:03.840 women aren't the focus, great that it's a queer male 1:29:03.920 --> 1:29:06.800 love story, Like that's what that best I could hope for. 1:29:06.880 --> 1:29:08.760 I think I'm going to go for on it. But 1:29:08.880 --> 1:29:10.880 I mean the only it's weird though, because it's like 1:29:10.920 --> 1:29:13.960 my My only criticism of the female characters is I 1:29:14.000 --> 1:29:15.920 feel the same way about the male characters is that 1:29:16.000 --> 1:29:20.320 they just feel a little bit uncanny Valley overly workshopped 1:29:20.680 --> 1:29:24.280 in certain places. But I mean, it's again, it's just 1:29:24.400 --> 1:29:28.040 like it's a movie for young people, and so I 1:29:28.080 --> 1:29:31.439 think it can be almost dangerous to like show a 1:29:31.680 --> 1:29:34.760 young female character being completely off the rails if there's 1:29:34.760 --> 1:29:37.200 not the real estate in that movie to address it. 1:29:37.600 --> 1:29:40.200 So I don't know, I thought, I thought that the 1:29:40.280 --> 1:29:45.920 women we see are great. Yeah, well, Matt, thank you 1:29:46.040 --> 1:29:49.679 so thank you so much for guys for having brilliant 1:29:50.439 --> 1:29:54.200 You know, we lifted the band for good reason, but 1:29:54.280 --> 1:30:03.040 it's back on. But Aristotle still shout out to Aristotle, 1:30:03.120 --> 1:30:06.280 shout out. What would you like to plug? Where can 1:30:06.320 --> 1:30:09.200 people find you online? You guys can follow me at 1:30:09.240 --> 1:30:12.800 Matt Rogers though it's Matt Rogers th h O. Or 1:30:12.880 --> 1:30:17.519 you can listen or and in addition to that, you 1:30:17.600 --> 1:30:20.840 can listen to my podcast Last Culture Asta with Bowen 1:30:20.920 --> 1:30:26.720 Yang where we discuss pop culture and wow, I've heard 1:30:26.720 --> 1:30:30.240 of it, talk about it. It's one of my favorites. 1:30:30.560 --> 1:30:35.400 Thank you. You can follow us at pectel cast on 1:30:35.560 --> 1:30:38.639 the platforms, all the platforms. You can join our Patreon 1:30:38.760 --> 1:30:41.519 five bucks a month to extra episodes a month. Kind 1:30:41.560 --> 1:30:43.640 of incredible. You're gonna want to be a matron of 1:30:43.680 --> 1:30:48.120 our matriarch, going to want to join the matriarchy? Uh? 1:30:48.160 --> 1:30:51.120 And then yeah, our merchanes on t public and you 1:30:51.160 --> 1:30:56.120 know review us on the tunes. Oh yeah, I love 1:30:56.160 --> 1:31:00.680 our reviews and they're just like, like, I get it, 1:31:00.720 --> 1:31:03.920 I'm stupid. It always makes me feel so bad. Oh, 1:31:04.520 --> 1:31:07.600 it's cutting reading. I just on the way here. I 1:31:07.640 --> 1:31:09.759 read a bunch. I was a guest on another podcast 1:31:09.800 --> 1:31:11.200 and I read the reviews and it was like, oh 1:31:11.240 --> 1:31:14.400 my god, people hate me so much. Caitlin has great 1:31:14.400 --> 1:31:16.840 self control with that kind of stuff. I have no 1:31:16.920 --> 1:31:19.599 self control. I read everything and I feel I'm addicted 1:31:19.640 --> 1:31:23.160 to feeling horrible. We should all be more like setting 1:31:23.200 --> 1:31:28.439 a great example. Look, I teach classes on how to 1:31:28.479 --> 1:31:31.800 be me. Yeah, thank you again so much for being here, Matt, 1:31:31.920 --> 1:31:36.240 and thank thanks for listening. And we'll be here next week. Bye.