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Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is

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Speaker 1: Jamie Loftus and my name is Caitlin drown Day. We

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Speaker 1: get a few messages at the top of the show.

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Speaker 1: Today we have some upcoming show dates including UH Live.

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Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast in Los Angeles will be covering Anastasia Ever

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Speaker 1: Heard Of It with guest Anna Sara Gina at the

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Speaker 1: Ruby Theater. And that's July and that is the episode

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Speaker 1: we were doing for your birthday. So and it's our

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Speaker 1: last show in l A for a couple of months,

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Speaker 1: so be sure to come out celebrate with us, bring

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Speaker 1: me a bunch of presents while you're at it. I

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Speaker 1: will be as rest for sure. I will be dressed

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Speaker 1: as a resputed um and I would say it would

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Speaker 1: be the last time to incentivize people to go, but

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Speaker 1: I know it won't be. Uh. And the reason we

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Speaker 1: won't be here for the summer is because we will

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Speaker 1: both be doing shows in Europe. That's right, That's why

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Speaker 1: we'll be gone from l A for a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Now you understand Dad it because Jamie, what are you doing?

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Speaker 1: I'm bringing my solo show Boss Whom Is Girl to

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Speaker 1: Edinburgh Fringe Festival and London. If you are not familiar,

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Speaker 1: is my One Woman's show about an evil corporate feminist

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Speaker 1: who uses feminism for bad, unlike us who use it

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Speaker 1: for good. Um, it's it's a lot of Elizabeth, so

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Speaker 1: much fun. I've seen it many times. You're Caitlyn's a

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Speaker 1: stand of the show. I don't pressure her to go,

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Speaker 1: but I'm really excited about it. I've never done Fringe before,

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Speaker 1: so if you're a UK backtel head, I'd love to

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Speaker 1: see you there. I'll be in London doing it on

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Speaker 1: July eighth at the Bill Murray okay, sure, only five

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Speaker 1: pounds ago and those will be the only two shows

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Speaker 1: I'll be I'll be doing there for Boss and His Girl,

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Speaker 1: and then i'll be at Edinburgh Fringe every damn night

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Speaker 1: from July one through August at Pleasants, Baby Grand please

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Speaker 1: come to those. I don't know anyone there, and it

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Speaker 1: would be so great to see a friendly face shows

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Speaker 1: in Europe too. Why thank you for bringing it up,

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Speaker 1: Because I'm doing probably mostly stand up shows, um, some

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Speaker 1: in London, some in Edinburgh, some maybe I'm going to

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Speaker 1: be in Dublin too. I don't have any shows booked

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Speaker 1: there yet, but until maybe he until you're like, hey, Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: uh do this show in Dublin And I'm also going

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Speaker 1: to be some other places in Europe to any Athens,

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Speaker 1: Greece listeners, because I'll be there. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: the comedy scene is like there. We're traveling women now, yes,

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Speaker 1: you gotta deal with it. We're going around the world,

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Speaker 1: so stay tuned with maybe announcing additional day. It's mystery

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Speaker 1: question mark who knows. So keep checking betelcast dot com

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Speaker 1: on our live appearances tab. That's where you can find

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Speaker 1: the links to all of their shows and more so,

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Speaker 1: thank you for listening and enjoy the episode that you're

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Speaker 1: about to hear. On the bell Cast, the questions asked

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Speaker 1: if movies have women in them, are all their discussions

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Speaker 1: just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism the

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Speaker 1: patriarchy zef and best start changing it with the beck

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Speaker 1: Del Cast. Hello and welcome to the Becktel Cast. My

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Speaker 1: name is Caitlin Dronte and Jamie loved it and we

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Speaker 1: talked about the portrayal and representation of women and movez

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Speaker 1: yes and I said that so aware I liked it.

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Speaker 1: I liked it. I like you made a choice and

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Speaker 1: I and I was. It's like when you're watching a

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Speaker 1: movie and you're like, that was a choice, and I

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Speaker 1: come back to it. If she backs out, I'll respect

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Speaker 1: her list. It's not my favorite choice, but I've never

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Speaker 1: really liked that that's the one you made. It was

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Speaker 1: a mistake, and I am I'm stopping. I love my

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Speaker 1: favorite thing to do on stages, make a choice, feel

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Speaker 1: a little bit of hesitation, immediately back up on it,

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Speaker 1: and lose the entire audience. I love that when they're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: she's really going for it. Oh she realizes it's not working.

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Speaker 1: Oh she's receding into herself, and we have to spend

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Speaker 1: forty five more minutes with her that I keep telling

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Speaker 1: what happened to me last week? You know, wonderful, What

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Speaker 1: a what a gift. Anyway, so we talk about we

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Speaker 1: use the Bectel test as a jumping off point to

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Speaker 1: initiate this larger conversation. And the Bechtel Test, of course,

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Speaker 1: is a media test created by cartoonist Alison Bechtel, and

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Speaker 1: it requires that a movie or anything with a narrative

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Speaker 1: has two female defining characters with names. They have to

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Speaker 1: talk to each other, and they cannot talk about men. Unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if the Lorena bob it. Thank you, Henry,

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna keep talking about it. I wonder if

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Speaker 1: it passes it doesn't pass the Bectel test of Loraina

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Speaker 1: Bobbit chops her husband's stick off and drews it into

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Speaker 1: the woods, even if she's not talking to anyone, that

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Speaker 1: does automatically passed the Becktel test. Yes, okay, um, cool,

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Speaker 1: Well shall we begin. Let's do it our guest today,

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Speaker 1: we have a great one. I'm excited. He hosts the

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Speaker 1: last culture Eristas podcast with Bone Yang, and they've been

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Speaker 1: on tour with the I Don't Think so Honey Live Tour.

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Speaker 1: It's Matt Rogers. Hi. Hi, Honestly, what I loved that

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Speaker 1: you said before, my favorite thing to do is make

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Speaker 1: a choice, and that could have been the end of

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Speaker 1: the end of the sentence. And then you're like to

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Speaker 1: make a choice and then back away, and I was like, perfect,

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Speaker 1: and then you were like and then they're stuck with

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Speaker 1: me forty five minutes. So it wasn't very specific scenario.

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Speaker 1: And I loved every sentence it could have been compounded to,

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Speaker 1: and the sentence that ultimately it was Plymouth, Massachusetts. The

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Speaker 1: whole hour of it incredible, wonderful. Oh we forgot to mention. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So full disclosure, Matt. We have an embargo on mail

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Speaker 1: guests that we that we sometimes lift when the time

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Speaker 1: is right and the time is right for you. We

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Speaker 1: only yeah, we only do it for best of the best. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So who have you had on what's the company? Alfred Molina?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we had to lift. Well yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: there was no choice. I mean, I like, I forgot

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Speaker 1: that he identified as any gender. I was like an

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Speaker 1: idea than a gender. Unbelievable. And I heard one Patrigan

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Speaker 1: just in the room, just now. Yes, So we've been

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Speaker 1: we've been very choosy. So you know, you're really some

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Speaker 1: top tier ship. Honestly, I'm really grateful that you guys

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Speaker 1: have chosen me. And I do think that the movie

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Speaker 1: I chose for you guys like, it's good that I'm

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Speaker 1: here to talk about it. It's only white gay talk

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Speaker 1: about white gay bullshit. Okay, I am No one else's

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Speaker 1: take counts. This is a white gay fantasia, and I'm

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Speaker 1: here to expound on it. So today's movie, of course,

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Speaker 1: is Love Simon. What is your history with have you

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Speaker 1: read the book, what's your like, what's your relationship? I

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Speaker 1: have not read the book. I did see the film

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Speaker 1: in theaters. I was a good supporter of this LGBT cinema.

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Speaker 1: Um well, when it came out, I was kind of like,

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Speaker 1: oh boy, like what's what's this going to be? And

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Speaker 1: then I I kind of was like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: let's give it a shot. And I did end up

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Speaker 1: crying by the end of the film. I actually cried

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Speaker 1: a couple of times. I saw it with my best

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Speaker 1: friend Sudie Green, and we we went and we were

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Speaker 1: emotionally affected by it. And then I had that moment

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Speaker 1: of everyone that had criticism of it that was like

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Speaker 1: justifiably good criticism. I was kind of like defensive about

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Speaker 1: it because I was like, but but just let us

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Speaker 1: have this and then but also it's like not a

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Speaker 1: perfect film, and also it's it's super like for the privileged.

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Speaker 1: But I did like enjoy the film, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean as a movie. I was like, I'd rather

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Speaker 1: see this movie than like fucking paper Heart or whatever

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Speaker 1: that ship was with, you know what I mean. I

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Speaker 1: just was like, at least it's different than that. I

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Speaker 1: don't have patience for a John Green joint. I just

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Speaker 1: don't I don't care, Like I really don't care about

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Speaker 1: like this, like sort of I don't even know if

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Speaker 1: i'd call it twee, but like this kind of like

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Speaker 1: mystical team girl bullshit, I don't care, Like she always

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Speaker 1: has to I for like The Boy to learn a

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Speaker 1: lesson and that's the movie, right, And also The Boy

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Speaker 1: and those movies just so fucking boring. And also if

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Speaker 1: there's like a sort of interesting male character, you know,

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Speaker 1: there has to be a boring character. It's like in

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Speaker 1: those films, like one of them has to be boring.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not right. I'm not saying that Simon isn't boring,

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Speaker 1: because Simon is pretty boring and has an Elliott Smith

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Speaker 1: Foster and and and Radiohead April two written on his

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Speaker 1: chalkboard walls. You're just like, man, he's like you know

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Speaker 1: other gays, he's and that's not like the other guys.

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Speaker 1: He's straight. Yeah, he's like, may as well be straight.

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Speaker 1: And also like when he's asking his friend when he

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Speaker 1: does come out to his one friend and he's like,

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Speaker 1: did you expect anything? Did you suspect anything? And she's like,

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Speaker 1: I mean no, like because you're too freaking boring to

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Speaker 1: have any personality to draw anything on the most exciting

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Speaker 1: thing about you as a poster on your wall. Know,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of I mean, and I guess teenagers

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Speaker 1: like I definitely did this to some extent, but a

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Speaker 1: lot of like this is the character and you can

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Speaker 1: tell because this is their bedroom, like boor At kid.

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Speaker 1: Like boor At kid, You're like, oh, I know the

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Speaker 1: vibe of this kid. It's boor At kids. I actually

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Speaker 1: I was like justifying to my friends why he was

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Speaker 1: so boring. I'm like, the thing is like when you're

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Speaker 1: day in high school, you don't have a personality because

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Speaker 1: you're not allowed to have one, Like he's saying he

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Speaker 1: likes Radiohead because he can't really say, like Christina Aguilera,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like all these things true,

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Speaker 1: And I was like, you know what, Yes, that could

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Speaker 1: be true, or maybe the filmmakers are just like he's

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Speaker 1: a kid that likes Radiohead, which I think both are

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Speaker 1: equally possible. I don't know. I want to assume it's

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Speaker 1: smarter than it is, but it could just be like

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Speaker 1: a fine B plus movie, which I love, I love,

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Speaker 1: I love that for it. I really like this movie,

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Speaker 1: and I have I'm coming at it with some blind spots,

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Speaker 1: but I saw it twice in theaters and I did

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Speaker 1: a good lots of good laughs, some good cry and

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Speaker 1: thank you for that. I was very emotionally invested in

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Speaker 1: this story and that, of course know it's it's not

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Speaker 1: without its issues, but we'll talk about those. But I

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Speaker 1: generally really liked this movie. I saw it this morning.

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Speaker 1: I laughed, I cried. Yeah, I liked it. And then

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Speaker 1: when I was like, who wrote this movie? And it's

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Speaker 1: that this is us writers, which makes so much sense

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Speaker 1: because they're pulling. Yeah, they're pulling at the exact like

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Speaker 1: there is an element to this movie at times where

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Speaker 1: it's like you feel like your heart strings are being

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Speaker 1: pulled very scientifically and methodically. They're like first I'm going

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Speaker 1: to do this, and then I'm gonna throw in a

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Speaker 1: dead scene, and then like then Jennifer Garner's the mom,

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Speaker 1: which is like at this point, that's what she does,

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Speaker 1: that she This is my second favorite Jennifer Garner mom role.

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Speaker 1: But what's the first favorite? Juno Juno? Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: I might like this movie more than Juno or maybe

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Speaker 1: definitely or maybe maybe it's been a long time since

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Speaker 1: I've seen Juno, you know, just to like flat out

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Speaker 1: say this just up top, because I already feel myself

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Speaker 1: being like needlessly cynical about it. It was very kind

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Speaker 1: of cool to see a depiction of two gay kids

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Speaker 1: kissing at the and and then everyone sharing, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, because that would never have happened when

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Speaker 1: I was in high school. And I think that, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, the criticism of this movie like it is

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Speaker 1: what it is, but also it's like, come on, it's

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Speaker 1: it's a nice movie where good things happened to someone

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Speaker 1: who struggles, and you know, I can relate to the struggle.

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Speaker 1: And sure, like I think we as a society are

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Speaker 1: still progressing and in some cases regressing, but like you know,

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Speaker 1: we're always hoping for more intersectionality in movies and in

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Speaker 1: in media, but you know, it has to start somewhere,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like this is a good in the

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Speaker 1: right direction. And the fact that this movie had like

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Speaker 1: a gigantic release and it was very successful and like

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Speaker 1: well regarded that, yeah that says a lot. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: actually made my parents go see it. I was like,

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Speaker 1: you should go see this movie because my dad like,

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Speaker 1: and my dad said it hurt his feelings. I was like,

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Speaker 1: why did it hurt your feelings? He was like, well,

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Speaker 1: the scene with the debt, because to be honest with you,

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Speaker 1: the scene the dad. And I think Josh Dumel's best performance.

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Speaker 1: Let's just say, I don't know if I've ever seen

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Speaker 1: him be like, I've never been impressed with him before

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Speaker 1: this movie. He was good. And also I think like

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Speaker 1: it's kind of it's that kind of thing where it's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're giving that scene as an actor, and

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Speaker 1: like it's probably pretty hard to mess that up, like

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Speaker 1: it's pretty emotional situation. But he was great. And I

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Speaker 1: remember I said to my dad, I was like, you

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Speaker 1: should go see this movie. And he's like the scene

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Speaker 1: with the dad about him missing it, that was like

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Speaker 1: very similar. When I was watching that scene, I actually

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Speaker 1: like was very emotionally if I did by it because

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Speaker 1: it mirrored the own scene in my own life very

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Speaker 1: I mean even the vest he was wearing. Remember he's

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Speaker 1: wearing that coffee dad vest over a flannel with a

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Speaker 1: hat on. That was my dad's like that that he

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Speaker 1: was doing like Rich Rogers drag in that scene, And

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Speaker 1: I was like oh boy. And so the way he

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Speaker 1: was being emotional about it, they were standing very far

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Speaker 1: away from each other. It was kind of just like,

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Speaker 1: it's that kind of masculinity that there's like that thing

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Speaker 1: that needs to get broken down. Extra it did a

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Speaker 1: like a job in that scene of depicting that and

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Speaker 1: so so between that and also the scene with the

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Speaker 1: mom and there was lots of stuff that was gonna

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Speaker 1: get me. Sure, Yeah, it's I mean I cried a

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Speaker 1: lot during that like sequence of him coming out to

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Speaker 1: different people where just and then one of the scenes

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Speaker 1: would end, you like, and then another one would start

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Speaker 1: you'd be like, ah. The sister too, was tough for me.

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Speaker 1: When the sister comes to his room and is like, Simon,

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Speaker 1: are you okay? Is it true? And he was like

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Speaker 1: get out of here and yelled at the sister. Had

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Speaker 1: I wish they had had more of a reconciling somewhere

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Speaker 1: in the end they don't really get that. I guess

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Speaker 1: he gives her a queens in art and that was. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that that was I think that was for me, the

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Speaker 1: most privileged moment of the movie. I'm like, Simon, where

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Speaker 1: did you get this money? For a least everyone seems

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Speaker 1: very wealthy. That is one of I like that. It

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Speaker 1: did make me laugh a lot where where like where

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Speaker 1: it starts where like I'm like you, I just got

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Speaker 1: a car from my parents. My house has five rooms,

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Speaker 1: Like my mom is incredibly liberal, like as if she

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Speaker 1: were in her early twenties in New York City, like

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Speaker 1: smashed the patriarchy and they're fucking gigantic house. I am

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Speaker 1: assuming was bought with an oil fortune. Like, we don't

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Speaker 1: know that, it's crazy his mom is a therapist. Oh, yes,

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Speaker 1: they do say that, right, I don't know, Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: don't know what his dad does. Though I don't think

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Speaker 1: I know. I don't think they say. You know. That

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Speaker 1: was actually something about it where I was like maybe

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Speaker 1: something they were going for which didn't really land and

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Speaker 1: just felt like privilege. But maybe what they were going

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Speaker 1: for was like a kid like this that it seems

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Speaker 1: like has everything can be hurting very much. And I

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Speaker 1: think that that is like something I sort of related to.

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Speaker 1: My family was an upper middle class. We were middle

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Speaker 1: class comfortable. My mom was a hairdresser and my dad

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Speaker 1: was a phizzed teacher. Like we we had a nice house,

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Speaker 1: but I was still in pain every single day, like

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Speaker 1: an immense amount of emotional pain. And I didn't think

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Speaker 1: I was lucky, you know what I mean? And so

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Speaker 1: I think something that the film could have done was

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Speaker 1: maybe just given more of an acknowledgement of that sort

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Speaker 1: of like privilege. Sure, he comes from a place of

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Speaker 1: economic privilege, of white privilege, and we can talk more

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Speaker 1: about that, but first, how would we do the freaking

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Speaker 1: recap recap he I'm talking about the specifically, so we

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Speaker 1: meet Simon, he is he describes himself as a He's

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Speaker 1: It's like he's like Brochure, Like, oh my god, You're like,

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Speaker 1: is he twenty two? Isn't It was? The first thing

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Speaker 1: I did was google his age to see if I

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Speaker 1: should feel like a pervert, but it's yeah. I was

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Speaker 1: just like, oh this is fine, and I'm actually going

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Speaker 1: to see, like where's he at, what's he doing? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Of course, And he would describe himself as a normal teenager.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's a senior in high school. He's got

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Speaker 1: some great friends. Their names are Leah, Nick and Abby group. Yes,

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Speaker 1: another Brochure friend group. He's got a great family and

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Speaker 1: things are going pretty well for him, except that he's

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Speaker 1: got this one big secret. It's that he's gay and

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Speaker 1: no one knows. He's still completely in the closet. So

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Speaker 1: at school, there's like this blog that's popular among the students.

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Speaker 1: It's Leah's only character trait is that she loves I

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Speaker 1: relate so closely with Leah of being this like calling

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Speaker 1: a friend frantically, being like refresher Internet like just God,

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Speaker 1: and being in love with Game and forever like that's

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Speaker 1: just she. I felt very close. Um, And she says, hey,

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Speaker 1: did you see the latest post. It's from a guy

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Speaker 1: who posted anonymously as code named Blue, and he is

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Speaker 1: saying that he is gay, and Simon is like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, there's someone else like me. So he writes

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Speaker 1: him an email. He writes Blue an email, Shock. I

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Speaker 1: love that they took the time to show us that

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Speaker 1: he made a shell Gmail account. I'm like, that is

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Speaker 1: appropriately saro. So he writes Blue this email saying like, hey,

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Speaker 1: I've also got a big secret. But he also signs

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Speaker 1: it anonymously as again code name Shock, so they still

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Speaker 1: don't know each other's identities. And then he's like waiting

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Speaker 1: for him to write back, and then Blue finally writes back.

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Speaker 1: Tony Hale is screwball comedy. He's like buster blue thing

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Speaker 1: all over the place. Tony Hale's character was a little touchy.

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Speaker 1: For mind. He was a very touchy vice prince and

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Speaker 1: he was completely inappropriate in a way that's like maybe

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Speaker 1: we could have seen a movie about this like fifteen

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Speaker 1: years ago, and like we would have said nothing, but

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Speaker 1: like now it's like stop being this way with these kids.

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Speaker 1: It felt a little out of place with like the

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Speaker 1: movie very modern, but then it was like, oh the

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00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,520
Speaker 1: like it's I know, this movie is like clearly pulling

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Speaker 1: from a lot of John hughesy kind of stuff, but

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00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,679
Speaker 1: that was the one parents. I'm like, that's like just

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Speaker 1: straight up textbook John. He is perverted like he was.

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Speaker 1: He was dangerous. Yeah, I was like he should be fired.

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Speaker 1: But he's like, I've got a tender date tonight and

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to fuck and he tells that to his

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Speaker 1: student and then he like claused. The student is like

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Speaker 1: we can talk about this here. I was like, you're fired.

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Speaker 1: Its wild. So then anyways, but he seems to be

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Speaker 1: having a good time in the role. He's having a

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Speaker 1: great time in the role. I bet his day he's

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Speaker 1: tossing in some improv line seeing what sticks. I wonder

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Speaker 1: if it was ever even discussed on set, like hey,

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Speaker 1: this principle is like a little edgy huh. And they

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Speaker 1: were just like, no, he's fun and then like his

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00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,680
Speaker 1: last beat is like a bizarro no homo joke. He

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Speaker 1: was like, you're just like Tony, You're You're Emmy nominated.

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Speaker 1: You don't need this. Another great teacher in the film,

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Speaker 1: Righting love that character. She was amazing and she had

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Speaker 1: all the fun. She had a lot of the L

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Speaker 1: O L one. Definitely. She is the theater teacher. And

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Speaker 1: Simon is doing theater. He's doing a production of Cabaret

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Speaker 1: with Abby, his other friend, which to me was like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if this guy is being closeted, would

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Speaker 1: be even be in the play. That took me back

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Speaker 1: to my high school days where I didn't do anything really, no,

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Speaker 1: did no plays, didn't know nothing, because that was that

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Speaker 1: would have been a huge tell. Either could be like

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Speaker 1: a dead giveaway kind of situation. Yeah, and I mean

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Speaker 1: I didn't even have to deal with it being Cabaret,

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Speaker 1: like he's playing like the MC in Cabaret or who

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Speaker 1: was playing it was like an extra Okay, So he

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Speaker 1: was in the cabaret. But either way, in cabaret, if

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Speaker 1: you're in cabaret, you're doing some sexy. It is a

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Speaker 1: sexy hip movement. I gotta see cabaret and Hello Dolly,

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Speaker 1: my SERI and Dolly change. No, it's a dancer. I

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Speaker 1: was never in any of the musicals because I have

377
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:10,960
Speaker 1: the worst singing voice in the world. It's true. So, yeah,

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00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:17,000
Speaker 1: the Lady Gaga stars, thank you so much that I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be discovered on this podcast. Okay, So Blue

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00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,160
Speaker 1: finally writes back, and he and Simon get to talking

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Speaker 1: over email about their experience with being gay, and they're

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Speaker 1: like sexual awakenings and all this stuff. They're both very articulate. Yeah,

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00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:36,040
Speaker 1: they're great writers. They're like screenwriters there. It's almost like

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00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 1: they've written many episodes of This is Us. They also

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00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 1: capitalize and use they use punctuation. I'm like, this is

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Speaker 1: a teenager. But like, who were the guys they say

387
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,960
Speaker 1: gave them their sexual awakenings again, Daniel Radcliffe and John Snow, yes,

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00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,520
Speaker 1: those are good ones. Those are They show two very

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00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,399
Speaker 1: different young gays. What I mean like, well, actually no,

390
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:07,119
Speaker 1: they're both into young Yeah, from like very nerdy properties

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00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 1: yeah exactly. Okay, well, yeah, these these boys are bound

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00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 1: to each other. You're right. I liked I liked when

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00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,400
Speaker 1: they cut from the john Snow to like every teenager

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00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,919
Speaker 1: wearing a john Snow t shirt in the high school.

395
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,160
Speaker 1: You're like. That was very stressful for me because it's

396
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,320
Speaker 1: all it's kind of like shamy for like how people look.

397
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, here's a guy who's like he's kind

398
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 1: of chubby, and like here's a guy who's brown, and

399
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,600
Speaker 1: it's like I wouldn't want to date any of Then

400
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:35,880
Speaker 1: they do do a little bit of that, yeah, with

401
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 1: no awareness. Right, Yeah, that was a little It's weird.

402
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:42,880
Speaker 1: I was thinking the whole time. I was like, what

403
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,920
Speaker 1: if Blue is not Hollywood hot? At the I thought

404
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 1: about that too. Spoiler Allard, he is absolutely Hollywood. He

405
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 1: is completely is he over eighteen? He is Thank god

406
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,119
Speaker 1: you can jack off to him to guild. But he's like,

407
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,639
Speaker 1: I'm it was so like, I don't know, he's like

408
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: Hollywood hotter than Simon. You're just I was like, it

409
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 1: would have been an interesting choice for it to be

410
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 1: like someone who was not the hottest person ever, But

411
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Speaker 1: like whatever, they it was a good kiss. Yeah, I

412
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 1: cried during it anyway. Okay, So Simon starts to speculate

413
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,679
Speaker 1: about who Blue might be, and then at first he

414
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 1: thinks it's this guy named Bram who plays soccer with

415
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 1: his friend Nick, and then emailing back and forth still

416
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 1: and then at one point Simon leaves this email logged

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Speaker 1: in on a computer at the school library. Enter bore

418
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:43,680
Speaker 1: at kids, Enter Martin, who sucks so bad, but he

419
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 1: that actor does a great job of making that character

420
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 1: so unlikable and well that kid, that kid that you

421
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 1: were just like, why am I involved with this person? Like?

422
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,879
Speaker 1: He really was well well drawn out. He to me

423
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 1: felt like the logical conclusion of Chicken Nuggets kid from

424
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 1: eighth grade. Really that makes me so sad. You don't

425
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:10,360
Speaker 1: think that Chicken Nuggets grade like figured himself out. Oh

426
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 1: my god, I had so much hope for Chicken Nuggets.

427
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 1: I thought Chicken Nuggets kid was the best I thought

428
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,880
Speaker 1: right there in eighth grade, Elsie Fisher had literally found

429
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 1: her husband. I'm like, girl, it worked out for you

430
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 1: in the end. You fucking nailed it. Like Chicken Nugg

431
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 1: gets an interesting TV and Morty and he's already he

432
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 1: has romantic instincts at eighth grade. Come on, I take

433
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 1: it all back and take it off worse than him.

434
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: He's probably also going to be sucking dynamite in bed

435
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 1: later on because he has to try the worst people

436
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,400
Speaker 1: in better the hottest. He's going to make it come

437
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 1: because no one's ever going to tell like, well, hot people,

438
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 1: They're just never going to be told that they're not

439
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 1: doing something right exactly ever. And it's like, I'm not

440
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: going to be the one to tell them I'm just

441
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: happy to be here, or that they have to do something.

442
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 1: For example, Simon, and when we find out who Blue

443
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: is later and he is Hollywood hot. When they finally

444
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 1: do have sex, it's going to be like, well, who

445
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 1: tries you know what I mean? They're going to have

446
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: to take turns, making an ass like kind of rubbing

447
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 1: against each other in a very unsexy way because Blue

448
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: is like, I'm ten out of ten hot, and Simon

449
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 1: is like, well, I'm eight out of ten hot and white.

450
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:27,439
Speaker 1: So so he's like, think anything anyway, anyway, we have

451
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: to take a quick break, but we'll come right back.

452
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 1: So Martin logs in onto the that Simon was using

453
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 1: and he sees the emails. So then he approaches Simon

454
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 1: and basically blackmails him and says, hey, I really like

455
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 1: your friend Abby. Everyone likes his friend, yes, and I

456
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: need your help getting with her. And if you don't

457
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: help me, I will expose your emails and out you

458
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 1: to the school. But there is something about this girl

459
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 1: where you kind of believe that she's like the one

460
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 1: that she's the one that everyone wants to be with.

461
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: It makes sense, and she's like a good character and

462
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: she's a good friend and all that too, so they

463
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 1: don't fall into the pitfall of like the bitchy hot girl.

464
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: And they made it that she was new to the

465
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 1: school too. They made that she had only been there

466
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: for like a year, so you buy it even more

467
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: because there's like that new girl who there's like an

468
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 1: air of mystery about you know what I mean? That

469
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 1: was a smart and she was the only one who

470
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: seemed to be of like a lower socio economic class

471
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: because she lives in an apartment building versus a huge

472
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: McMansion like everyone else lives in. So there's that um

473
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,479
Speaker 1: but okay, so anyway, so Simon agrees to help Martin

474
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 1: so that he's not being outed. So Simon invites Martin

475
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 1: to the Halloween party that Bram is throwing that weekend.

476
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 1: They all go to the party and like Nick and

477
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: Abbey are vibing, Martin tries to butt in but it's

478
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: not working, and then like Nick wants to ask Abby out.

479
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: I'm like having deja vu as you're saying, like Nick

480
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 1: and Abbey are vibing, because I'm sure I've heard this

481
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: in regards to some people. For sure they've been vibing

482
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: for millennia someone. But because Simon is like, beholden to

483
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 1: this awful blackmail situation of Martin's, he has to be like, no, Nick,

484
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: don't ask Abby out. She's dating this college dude. He

485
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: makes up some imaginary person. Yeah, he becomes a prolific

486
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 1: liar in a web of lies. A web of lies. Um, meanwhile,

487
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: a teen lie. So many teen movies are based on bets,

488
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: tricks or lies. Yes. So meanwhile Simon is working up

489
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: the nerve to tell Bram that he's Jacques at this party,

490
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: but then he walks in on Bram kissing a girl,

491
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 1: so he's like, well, Blue is not Bram never mind.

492
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: So now Simon thinks that Blue might be this guy

493
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: who's a server at the Waffle house. Also Cutie again,

494
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: is he a teenager or is he? We have to

495
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: be very careful about who we say is hot. And

496
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that no one in this movie is

497
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: a legitimate teenager except maybe the little Sister. Sure everyone

498
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 1: else is in their ties based on my cursory, Like

499
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: the Little Sisters, I AMDB and she's got like a

500
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,239
Speaker 1: fucking glamour shot and it's like age thirty six. She

501
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: just did like fucking Lady Macbeth. I hope. So okay.

502
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 1: So then Simon comes out to Abby and it was

503
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: so that girl that you come out to I loved

504
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: that scene too, That's great. Yeah, she was like, oh yeah, sure.

505
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh cool, you're still too hot for this,

506
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: You're still too hot for that situation. She's like, I'm

507
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: not surprised. I wasn't expecting anything, but I'm not surprised.

508
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: Crazy to think about, because I'm also incredibly smart and

509
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 1: perceptive and nice and very chill as well. There's nothing

510
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: wrong with me actually, And then something that this happens

511
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: in a movies a lot, where it's like she's the only,

512
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: like you point out, she's the only character who's like

513
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: a little bit poorer than everyone else, and that is

514
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: always like weirdly exoticized in like teen movies, like, oh,

515
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: she's kind of from the other side of the track.

516
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 1: She's got a little bit of otherworldly wisdom from what

517
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: with being poor and so like, it's just like she's

518
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: been hungry once, right, like, so like she's actually got

519
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: a lot to teach us. And it was right and

520
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: it would like definitely set off some red flags if

521
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: she was like the only person of color in the

522
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 1: movie who also happened to be the only person who

523
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: was of a lower class. But you see like Nick

524
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: and Bram also with huge houses, so it's like, okay, well,

525
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: at least they're not doing that kind of house. Does

526
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: we don't see Ethan's house? Which one's Ethan? Ethan is

527
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: the only out kid in school. Oh no, we do

528
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: not see his home. Correct, we should say there is

529
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: another out kid at school named Ethan. And because of

530
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: the way Ethan gets treated, Simon stays in the closet,

531
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: but he's reluctant to Yeah, he wants, like Blue and Jacque,

532
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: to reveal their real identities to each other, but Blue

533
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: isn't ready, so we still don't know who Blue is. Meanwhile,

534
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: like Abby is warming up to Martin and Nick is like,

535
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: fuck it, I'm just gonna tell Abbe that I like her.

536
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: But like Simon has to keep up this sharade, and

537
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: he's like, what if you consider Leah instead of Abby?

538
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: Because Simon thinks that Leah is in love with Nick.

539
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: She want not idiot, She's in love with him. It's

540
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: so obvious. That was one thing I thought was a

541
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: little not right with the movie. Is it's like in

542
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: that scene where Leah, who like fully sleeps over Simon's

543
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: house in his room, somehow that's allowed. Um, She's like,

544
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: I just want to love one person, looking him dead

545
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: in the eyes, and she's like I like you basically,

546
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: and he's just like, yeah, anyway, good night, And he

547
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: I knew. I knew every time one of my friends

548
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: was interested in me. It set me off into an

549
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 1: interior panic, which I think was something that could have explored. Sure, yeah,

550
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: like a part of it's a big part of being

551
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: closet in high school. It's like navigating like the fact

552
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: being that you are expected to have like a heterosexual experience.

553
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,719
Speaker 1: Maybe he's just not very personal, like I'm I'm rarely

554
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: knowing that it's hard to know, like he's so borning

555
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: but a great, perceptive, beautiful writer and emails, but it

556
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: doesn't can't take any signals from someone he's known for

557
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,959
Speaker 1: his entire life. That was a little bit off, And

558
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: it's also I don't know, Yeah, I felt. I felt.

559
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: I felt really bad for Leah's character almost the entire

560
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: movie because she doesn't really get a win at all,

561
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: down to the very end where Simon's like, get in

562
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: the back seat, my sexy boyfriends taking your spot, So

563
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: Leah has to sit in the back where her two

564
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: friends are french ng and then like the only boy

565
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: she's ever been in love with is with his sexy

566
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: boyfriend in the front seat, and it's like, God, you

567
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: sucked down that ice coffee like you've earned it. But

568
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: she is going to Leah is literally the type of

569
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: girl who fucking blossoms in college. College. She is going

570
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: to be crushing Dick in college. Yeah, Like guys are

571
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: gonna be lining up because she's super smart. She's like

572
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: television star beautiful. In fact, she is the star of

573
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: Thirteen Reasons Why on Netflix. Oh is that okay? I

574
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: see I have only watched the first episode of thirteen

575
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 1: reasons why. But it freaked me out because it's a bad,

576
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: dangerous show. It's like suicide is actually sick, like like

577
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: gikes um. Okay. So then they're all at the homecoming

578
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: football game and Lyle the waffle house guy is there

579
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: and he's like, Hey, what's Abby's deal. She's so he's

580
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: not gay after all, so he's not blue. Um. And

581
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: then Martin thinks that he needs to make this big

582
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: grand gesture with Abby, which Simon and I was so

583
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: mad when he did this. That was Simon's idea. Simon

584
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: gave him that idea to do a grand jest. I

585
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: would argue, he just says, go bigger. Well, he says yeah.

586
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: To me, it's he's just trying to get Martin off,

587
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 1: just like says a cliche, just to like get rid

588
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: of them. I guess, I don't know, maybe I'm being

589
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: too mean to Sigmon. But even in that waffle house

590
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: scene where this is like one of the most unrealistic

591
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: fact to the movie to me, in the waffle house

592
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: scene where Martin does that thing of standing on the

593
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: table and my name's Abby and I'm beautiful and I

594
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: deserve the world, and then Eventually he convinces her to

595
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: stand and she becomes okay with it. I'm like, like,

596
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: that just reminds me of so many tense drama club

597
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: parties that I did not want to scream at and

598
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: yet and she also like it gives the weird vibe

599
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,239
Speaker 1: that she's like now going to have a crush on him, right.

600
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I think this is like fully humiliating.

601
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: It's like not in line with her character. Yeah, I've, I've,

602
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: I don't know. I felt bad for her in that

603
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: scene and I was like, Simon, can you help out

604
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: with this? But you know he's being black mountains, right

605
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: or right? So at the big game, Martin steals the

606
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: microphone from the student who is singing the national anthem

607
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: and very publicly professes his love for Abby, and then

608
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: she's like, I don't like you like that, and so

609
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: like to draw attention away from his humiliation, Martin leaks

610
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: Simon's emails and outs him on that big Crab blog.

611
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: The little sister comes running in. She's concerned. He's like,

612
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: get the funk out of here. A little bit before this,

613
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: Simon thinks that Blue might now be this guy Cal

614
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: who is in cabaret with him. There's like a little

615
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: speculation about that. So now that Simon has been outed,

616
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: he's freaking out. He goes up to cal and he's like,

617
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: are you blue, and Call says I'm not, and then

618
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: he ends up coming out to his family Simon does.

619
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: It doesn't go very well. His his dad like a

620
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: joke about It's dad is like the king of microaggressions,

621
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,919
Speaker 1: like every time he's on screen means well, but he's

622
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,720
Speaker 1: not nailing it. Yeah, So it had been like Christmas

623
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: break and now everyone's back at school and his friends

624
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 1: confront him and they're like, Abby's like, you pimped me

625
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: out and that's very fucked up. H Nick is like,

626
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: you tried to set me up with Leah. That was

627
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 1: fucked up. And then Leah's like you're the one I

628
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: was in love with and then you tried to set

629
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: me up with Nick. That was very fucked up. I

630
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: hated this scene. This scene sucked to me because it's like,

631
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: this kid just went through one of the worst things

632
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: in his life, maybe he might ever go through, and

633
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: all of you can't fucking deal with the fact that,

634
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 1: like you went through like a week long period of

635
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: like minor inconvenience socially because he was fucking getting black

636
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: mouthed and drowning. I hated this and for them to

637
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: leave him like that, like that could have went really badly.

638
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: Kids like that like that are closeted, that are in

639
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 1: that sort of that have been publicly humiliated like that,

640
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: for you to bail on him, I was like, this

641
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 1: is so funny. I understand why it happens in the

642
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: movie version of this story because he has to go

643
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 1: through like the low point where everyone has basically turned

644
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 1: their back on him, But in the content, it just

645
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: felt so like too much. Yeah, and and a generally,

646
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 1: like the kids in this movie are generally pretty like

647
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,240
Speaker 1: I don't know, it just like seemed out of character

648
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:26,959
Speaker 1: for all. Like it's one thing if they're like, hey,

649
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: we're piste off that you did this, but like bailing

650
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: on him just seems like right, yeah, I know, it's

651
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: a movie. I said. I was worried that Abby was

652
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 1: just going to let him off the hook for like

653
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: pimping her out, so like her anger I think was

654
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: the most justified. Like I didn't hate that she confronted

655
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: him about it, but it was weird that they were

656
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: all like and you've been out it and fuck you'll

657
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 1: see you. Maybe never that any of them confronted him.

658
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 1: I just I just don't I don't know the fact

659
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 1: that they completely abandoned him in a time where you

660
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 1: know you're and is like very vulnerable, seems we didn't

661
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,280
Speaker 1: even ask how he was doing. They didn't they didn't

662
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: even check in with them, like, Hi, we can talk

663
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: about like what you've done to us, but like first,

664
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: let's confront you on the street in this pack, and

665
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: we're not even going to ask one question about the fallout,

666
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: like with your family or like how you are where

667
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: your head's at. It might have worked a little better

668
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: for me if like one friend couldn't let it go

669
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: and it seemed more like a personal character, But it

670
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,359
Speaker 1: was all of them, and so we're just like, oh,

671
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: so they're right, Like it's just it was, yeah, I

672
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: don't know totally. So then there's a few scenes where

673
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 1: like Simon confronts Martin tells him to suck off. He

674
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: has a scene with his mom where she's like you're

675
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,399
Speaker 1: still you and I love you, garnering out and she's

676
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: and then the scene with the dad that we already

677
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: talked about a little. There's a great scene with Natasha

678
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: Rothwell when these two bullies like confront Simon for being

679
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: gay and also um Ethan, the kid that's already been out,

680
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: and Natasha Rathabel comes up and she's like basically and

681
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 1: they will, I want to make that my ringtone. I

682
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: it was really good. And then they all go to

683
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: the principal's office and I love that, like even the

684
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: gay kids have to like gets into the principal's office

685
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,760
Speaker 1: to like hear their apology. It's like we're totally putting

686
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: the burden on them despite them being totally not there there.

687
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: It's like, I mean, I love that scene between Ethan

688
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 1: and Simon was one of my favorite parts. But I

689
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: was like, man, Tony Hale, you really like don't know

690
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: what you're doing us. At least it was clear that

691
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 1: he was like that was the wrong thing to do,

692
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: because for sure he seems so incompetent in that scene.

693
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: But I was happy that they did put Ethan and

694
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: Simon together for at least one point, because Simon gives

695
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: the moving an opportunity which I think it could have

696
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 1: taken more, but the movie gets a chance to at

697
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:59,919
Speaker 1: least be like yeah, I'm like gay, black and all,

698
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: so like not necessarily conforming to gender in the way

699
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 1: that we all dress and everything like that, so it's

700
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 1: crazy hard for me and my family will not accept me.

701
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 1: I'm like yours. So it's like, yeah, I thought it

702
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: definitely like started to shed some light on another perspective,

703
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: and I thought maybe we could have gone a little

704
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 1: bit further with that um. But it was nice to

705
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: at least hear from this kid, and it didn't just

706
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,240
Speaker 1: feel like the movie was using the kid as a prop. Definitely,

707
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: there was a punch of the man who played Ethan,

708
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 1: who of course is twenty seven years old, did like

709
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: a bunch of really good Clark Jones, Clark Moore, Clark

710
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: Moore did, he did, He did a bunch of really

711
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 1: good interviews around I think like really took full advantage

712
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 1: of being a part of this movie to like speak

713
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 1: more to that um and said kind of what you

714
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: said earlier, mat of like I hope what people take

715
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: away from the movie is that even if you're in

716
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: a very privileged position, it's still an impossible place to

717
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: be in for a lot of people. But he also

718
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 1: he spoke a little bit I just want to share

719
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: share a quote. May I sure, may I he did?

720
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: He didn't interview with teen Vogue incredible and said quote,

721
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,280
Speaker 1: we're used to seeing strong black characters, especially if they're effeminate.

722
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: Ethan has some depth added to his character where he's

723
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 1: not just the punchline. He has vulnerabilities just as much

724
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,399
Speaker 1: as anybody else, even though he's comedic relief. He's also

725
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: a source of inspiration for young people nervous about being

726
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: accepted by others. So I wish I mean, it's like

727
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,280
Speaker 1: I wish he was a more meaningful part of the plot,

728
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: even though I mean they do. He has seen a

729
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: bunch of different times, um, but mostly in most of

730
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,720
Speaker 1: the scenes he's in, he's being bullied by those two

731
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 1: homophobe kids. It's true. Yeah, I mean, I guess the

732
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,240
Speaker 1: best I could say for that is he is always

733
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: above it and like always has a funnier, better response

734
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: to it. I don't know, I don't know what did

735
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: you make of that character. I thought that it was

736
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: interesting to way because I didn't know any out gay

737
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,760
Speaker 1: kids when I was in high school, so I don't

738
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: really know. I didn't have a barometer for how they

739
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: get treated. It obviously, was like painful to see the kid,

740
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: even though he always had a smart, funny response to it.

741
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 1: And I like that they empowered the kid in that

742
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 1: way and gave him his intelligence and his humor. So

743
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,839
Speaker 1: many kids don't have that, And you know, I wondered if, like, um,

744
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 1: that was the representation of the average kid. Like I

745
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: think it was a good I think it was. It's

746
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,280
Speaker 1: nice to see for gay kids that might be closeted

747
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: to watch this movie and see themselves on screen this

748
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,879
Speaker 1: way and them to be given this this superpower, which

749
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: is his intelligence. But to me, it was like, the

750
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 1: reality is like this kid might be really depressed, and

751
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 1: it seems like, um, it almost seemed like when Simon

752
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 1: turns to Ethan and it's like, my life is over,

753
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: it couldn't be worse, etcetera. He almost really believes that

754
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 1: his life is worse than this other kid. And I

755
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: don't know, you can't expect too much of this movie

756
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 1: because it is a movie for teens and it is

757
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: like a big studio film and it's supposed to be

758
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: you know, mainstream, But the reality of being POC and

759
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 1: gay is like really so much different than it is

760
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: to be someone like Simon, and then also at the

761
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: end of the movie, well, I guess you'll you'll you'll say,

762
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: you'll say who Blue is? But Blue is black in

763
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 1: the movie. And also just the reality of like there's

764
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: just so many more things that are going to be

765
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: reality that they deal with. And I wondered if the

766
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: movie wasn't The movie was so blissfully diverse, but with

767
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: that kind of diversity comes a whole other series of

768
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 1: things to deal with, definite, And I wonder if the

769
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:51,839
Speaker 1: movie was using diversity in a way that was like, look,

770
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: we're a diverse film, and then kind of ignoring a

771
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 1: lot of the realities. You know, a kid, a kid

772
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 1: that's a kid that's like Simon, a white gay kid

773
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: who's sixteen, seventeen years old. They might not be at

774
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: at the point where like the person reveals themselves and

775
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 1: they're a black kid and they he might be in

776
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: the place where he's like, what is my parents going

777
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: to think about this? So it kind of just felt

778
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: like this whole it almost felt dumbed down in a

779
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: way so that it can be woke. So it felt

780
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: like it was it felt like it was raising it's

781
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: i Q. It feels like it's ignoring or not like

782
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: using opportunities to make statements that would have been helpful

783
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 1: to make it glazes stuff over. Yeah, for sure. And

784
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 1: that was like the one the one thought I had

785
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: about the Ethan character. And I don't know how spot

786
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,280
Speaker 1: on this is, but just the fact that he only

787
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: becomes meaningfully involved in the plot to sort of explain

788
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: something to Simon, but we don't really get to see

789
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 1: him be involved in the plot in a meaningful way

790
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 1: where he's just like is rightfully so saying like this

791
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: is my experience and like you are not the worst

792
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: off of everyone, and kind of like all out and

793
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: take stock of of what you do have going for you,

794
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: because you know, even though it's a difficult experience, you're

795
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: you're very lucky. Which is a great scene, and I'm

796
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: so glad it's there, but it's it almost feels like

797
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 1: that character is put there and then can't participate in

798
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: any way other than to be that example. And so

799
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: he's there, is an example, and then isn't really allowed

800
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 1: to participate in the movie, which kind of sucks because

801
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: he's a good character and and there's a lot there

802
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: that you think, you know, there's so many characters in

803
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: this movie that there could have been like real estate

804
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 1: freed up for him, because like what if Simon was

805
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 1: friends with the only out kid at school? Like what

806
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: would that be? I don't know, you know. They It's

807
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 1: almost like I almost feel like saying I also want

808
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 1: to see like love Ethan with him. But it's like

809
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 1: you wonder if you wonder if a major studio would

810
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: do that, and the answer is not, I probably would not,

811
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: at least not today, maybe in five years. I mean,

812
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,280
Speaker 1: you're talking about a movie that literally like has Simon

813
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 1: have like a quote unquote gay day dream and it's

814
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 1: him walking jauntily to like I will always know not

815
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: those I want to dance with somebody while everyone wears

816
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:20,359
Speaker 1: like a bright colored T shirt and I'm like summer that, yeah,

817
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 1: I thought about that, and he's he's like, um, well,

818
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:26,760
Speaker 1: maybe not this gay. I'm like, dude, this is not gay.

819
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: This is colorful. This is not gay, Like gay is

820
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: everyone in this scene eating each other's ass? Like you like,

821
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 1: this is not gay? And so I'm kind of thinking, like, wow,

822
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: this movie like it's about homosexuality. No, you know what,

823
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: it's about being gay? It's not about homosexuality. It's not

824
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 1: about like actually reckoning with your sexuality. It's about being

825
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: different socially, and it's about having secrets. That's what it's about.

826
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 1: And so like it doesn't make any effort to pretend

827
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 1: like it's more than that short. You know, it's like PG,

828
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 1: you know, and like I said, you can't expect too

829
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: much of it, and like, you know, movies about like

830
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 1: heterosexual teen romance are not about sex, well largely, but um,

831
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 1: it can't succeed on every level that I think we'd

832
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 1: like it to, right, I mean, yeah, it's a it's

833
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 1: a teen movie that adheres to almost every like trope

834
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 1: of the kind of like a teenager with a secret,

835
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 1: which is also why I feel like people should go

836
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: easier on it, you know what I mean. It's like like,

837
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 1: so I'm of two minds of it. It's like I

838
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: can see everything that you're saying is right. Also the

839
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: movie is this like it's not it's it's just not

840
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: gonna Maybe it's not gonna make a social comment. Maybe

841
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: it is just for more people to see themselves on screen.

842
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 1: And if you are not in that more people, that sucks,

843
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,359
Speaker 1: Like I'm sorry, I hope that for everyone to be represented.

844
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:57,760
Speaker 1: I personally hope for everyone who represented it's like Hollywood's issue, right,

845
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 1: And it's not surprising that like for the baseline of

846
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: like the first like wide released movie of this kind,

847
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 1: for Hollywood to play it safe and be like, well,

848
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: if we're going to do this and take this quote

849
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 1: unquote risk, then he'd better be like white hot from money,

850
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 1: and like that does make sense in terms of being

851
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: the baseline of where I mean, Hollywood feels comfortable gambling.

852
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: That's not right and that's hitty and bad and I

853
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: want you know, everyone wants it a love ethan and like,

854
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: but it it doesn't make sense to me that this

855
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 1: is the first like quote unquote gamble that they would take.

856
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 1: It makes sense to me on paper, you know what

857
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 1: I mean. I wish that Hollywood would realize that actually

858
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: when people most see themselves is when the stories are

859
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: the most specific. Yeah, Like, for example, something that's a phenomenon,

860
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was a box office phenomenon,

861
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: but it's a movie that everyone knows is precious. You

862
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: don't get more specific than that. Like, it's just it's

863
00:46:55,920 --> 00:47:00,040
Speaker 1: a very specific story of trauma and struggle, but it

864
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:04,720
Speaker 1: really connected with a ton of people on many levels

865
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:09,879
Speaker 1: because it was bold enough to be that specific. So

866
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 1: by kind of washing this story out and not allowing

867
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 1: the intelligent conversations that would happen in real life to happen,

868
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: I wonder if it actually could have made more money,

869
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 1: if if maybe people would have been a little bit

870
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,839
Speaker 1: more passionate about it, because right now, the conversation we're

871
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 1: largely having about the movie is it's like it was good.

872
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 1: It could have been better if it felt more real,

873
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, which is like, you wonder

874
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,959
Speaker 1: how necessary that is? Sure, we need to take another

875
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: quick break, but we will be right back. Um, I'll

876
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: just finish up the recap because is I like, I'm

877
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 1: enjoying this break in format? Yeah? Yeah, we're like, you know,

878
00:47:52,800 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: it's discussion integrated within the recap, but its spread. We've

879
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 1: said it Toive. How'sn't it okay? So Simon posts on

880
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: the blog after some of the you know, intensity at

881
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 1: the school has has died down a bit. Um He

882
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:21,720
Speaker 1: posts on Creek's secrets and he says, I love Blue,

883
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: whoever you are, I want to meet you. Here's where

884
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to be after this. After Cabaret hope to

885
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,839
Speaker 1: see you there because I deserve a love story and

886
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 1: you deserve a love story, and we all deserve love.

887
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: He makes up with his friends. They all go to

888
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 1: the school carnival together. He rides the ferris wheel waiting

889
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: for Blue to show up. For a while, it seems

890
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: like he's not going to even Martin. He offers his

891
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 1: guilt four dollars. He says, I love you. It's me,

892
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 1: and then we're all in an audience like if it's him,

893
00:48:55,239 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to and then it's not him, and it's

894
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 1: not Yeah, and he gives the ferris wheel guy. Imagine

895
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 1: if it was the ferris wheel guy. It's like, I'm

896
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: mind if I said, he gives him like a couple

897
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 1: of dollars to keep it going for one last time,

898
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 1: and then who shows up? And who shows up? But

899
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:23,240
Speaker 1: I enjoyed that twist. I was. I was really happy

900
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,720
Speaker 1: it was him. Yeah, I liked he was my favorite

901
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 1: candidate the same Yeah, And they kiss and he says,

902
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 1: are you disappointed it to me? And I was like

903
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 1: that's such a thing too, was like, you probably the

904
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 1: kid was probably nervous because what if you can care?

905
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 1: And he's like, oh god, never mind. Yeah, it's a

906
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 1: real Martin Nabby situation. Right, It's worth it for me

907
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: because you get that big moment of everyone cheering um

908
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,879
Speaker 1: while there is a queer kiss happening on screen which

909
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 1: never happens. But just like logistically, I'm like, oh, it's

910
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 1: such a big ask to be like, hey, do you

911
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:02,879
Speaker 1: want to come out the entire student body, like who

912
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: are all going to be gathered? Like that is so

913
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: much pressure and Simon has just gone through this whole

914
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 1: thing where he was put under too much pressure to

915
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: come out publicly. And I was like, I feel like

916
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 1: you kind of I don't know. I loved it, Yeah,

917
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: I loved it because it was like I think that

918
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: it was obviously a message. It's like I'm willing to

919
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 1: be this brave. So I think like his bravery made

920
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: made him want to be brave, you know what I mean. Well, yeah,

921
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:28,839
Speaker 1: they talk about that, you know what I mean. Like

922
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: I kind of loved it and I kind of got it.

923
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 1: I could see that really happening in real life, like

924
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,800
Speaker 1: if one kid was if I thought of this happening,

925
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,800
Speaker 1: I was like that I can see being a reality.

926
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 1: Like I was wondering like if I'm in high school,

927
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: and if I was doing this and somebody was like,

928
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 1: I'm actually gonna do this, like be here, maybe I would,

929
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 1: Maybe I would. I would love for that. I just

930
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,399
Speaker 1: was I felt I felt concerned for Blue. I hope

931
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 1: Blue is cool with this. But they did talk about

932
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 1: making each other brave. They inspired each other, so that

933
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 1: does make sense. I just got nervous for him when

934
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: that was a big as it's a big ask. But

935
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 1: they also kept expressing major hesitancy of wanting the world

936
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 1: to know his identity and everything. Question. Do you think

937
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 1: that they continued on into college or is this a

938
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:18,879
Speaker 1: beautiful flash in the pan from senior year. I think

939
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,839
Speaker 1: that they had a really nice rest of the senior year,

940
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 1: tried to be a long distance for a short time,

941
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:26,800
Speaker 1: maybe even went too long, like six to eight months,

942
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: and then it got just too hard at college where

943
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:33,879
Speaker 1: there's just so many other gay, beautiful dudes. But they

944
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 1: they'll always tell each other in high regard and guess what,

945
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 1: who knows, maybe they'll even maybe it's not over, maybe

946
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 1: down the road, but they've got more growing to do.

947
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 1: I don't think it's one and done for these boys,

948
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: because Simon says he's going to college in Los Angeles

949
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 1: ever heard of it? I know where are you going?

950
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 1: I bet? And you know, because like he's going to

951
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 1: a nice college. He's probably going to US. And he

952
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 1: does not have student loan debt that simon. I'll tell

953
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 1: you one thing. It doesn't. He's able to go to

954
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 1: West Hollywood guildfree ins. He's going to Hamburger, Mary's at Chapel.

955
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: He is fucking you know, actually works at pump No way,

956
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:25,839
Speaker 1: of course, of course. Anyway, So that's the story of

957
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 1: the movie. And we covered so much, covered a lot already.

958
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 1: It's a good, great soundtrack to We didn't say that

959
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:39,839
Speaker 1: the music is really good. A lot of bleachers. There's

960
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,720
Speaker 1: a lot I like about this movie, and I would

961
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:46,839
Speaker 1: like to hear your opinions, our listeners opinions on this.

962
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 1: And we talked a little bit about how the movie

963
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:53,799
Speaker 1: handles race and kind of glosses over things that like

964
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: a young queer person of color would have to deal

965
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 1: with it. It introduced is all these characters and then

966
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 1: kind of glasses over the intricacies of that situation. However,

967
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 1: it felt to me the movie normalizes people being attracted

968
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 1: to people of different races and ethnic backgrounds without needing

969
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: to draw a lot of attention to the fact that

970
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: they were attracted, except for that one weird moment where

971
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 1: Simon is like fumbling with his words. That was the

972
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 1: one moment where there is any attention drawn to it.

973
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 1: They're at the Halloween party and he is still trying

974
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 1: to pass this straight and he's talking to his friend Nick,

975
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 1: and Nick's like, Oh, it would be so hot, and

976
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 1: Simon's like, yeah, she's hot, but she's not really my type,

977
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 1: not because she's black. I love black women, but I

978
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 1: don't have a thing for black women. I just love

979
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: all women. So he's like, it's like a bad joke.

980
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 1: It seems like a bad attempt at humor, Like, oh,

981
00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:04,720
Speaker 1: I'm not fetishiz right, but also not not because it's needless. Yeh, needless.

982
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,439
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say

983
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:10,400
Speaker 1: that it kind of worked for me because he's in

984
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 1: a stressful situation where he's like trying to pass so

985
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 1: I kind of got that he was like stumbling over

986
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 1: his Yeah, and a lot is that Abby's expense, And

987
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 1: it's it's tricky because it's like you know that ultimately

988
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:30,360
Speaker 1: this is Martin's fault for being the worst most boat

989
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,439
Speaker 1: kid of all time. Like he's just like a bore

990
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: at poster come to life. But but it's like, you know,

991
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 1: Simon does sell Abby up the river for almost I

992
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 1: mean for what we have to think is the majority

993
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 1: of their friendship because I haven't even known each other

994
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 1: this lot. Like it's just I mean, I'm glad that

995
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,839
Speaker 1: she stands up to him, she of all people, should have,

996
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 1: but I don't know, yeah, she was the only one

997
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 1: who I felt like, you got a real bone to

998
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 1: pick with him here, Yeah, you know Nick that was

999
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 1: just like a like cock block at best, Like Nick

1000
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:08,279
Speaker 1: was not greatly Like there was no reason for Nick

1001
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 1: to turn his back on his lifelong best friend out

1002
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 1: of nowhere. Nor was there for Leah really. I mean,

1003
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:17,799
Speaker 1: although it's like, okay, she's disappointed, but again it's like

1004
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 1: she was at best inconvenience for he said like the

1005
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 1: space of a week. It must be hard to hear

1006
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,439
Speaker 1: that the kid that you're in love with not only

1007
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 1: doesn't like you, but like it's you know, different than

1008
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: you've ever thought. And then there's got to be a

1009
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:33,800
Speaker 1: lot of emotions that go through your mind there. But

1010
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:37,840
Speaker 1: but it's not abandonment. This is a critical time, especially

1011
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 1: with what yeah, yeah, that could be and and they do.

1012
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 1: I like that she is the first to forgive him

1013
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 1: at least, and it makes sense to me that she

1014
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 1: would be the first person to be like, no, I

1015
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 1: love you, accept you and all that, because he's like

1016
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 1: chasing her when she's like walking her dog or something,

1017
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 1: which is I don't know. I like that scene, the

1018
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: reconciliations to me, at least, compared to the teen high

1019
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 1: school movies that were a thing when I was coming

1020
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 1: of age of like all those like late nineties like

1021
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:12,319
Speaker 1: She's All that, Ten Things I Hate About You, Those

1022
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:15,400
Speaker 1: were like the things I was watching, And none of

1023
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: those felt like real high school experiences or like anything

1024
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 1: that anyone was dealing with or going through because they

1025
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 1: were all based on these like crazy bets that get

1026
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 1: way out of hand and it I never saw anything

1027
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 1: like that in my high school experience. This movie felt

1028
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:35,799
Speaker 1: way more real of a depiction of the high school

1029
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 1: experience than those. At least I bought it as a

1030
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:40,799
Speaker 1: high school movie. Even though the kids were looking what

1031
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:43,759
Speaker 1: they looked like, I bought it. I mean, it's like

1032
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 1: where everyone's gonna be five, which is almost always going

1033
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 1: to be true. It felt pretty I mean I also,

1034
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 1: it's like none of us have been in high school

1035
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:54,239
Speaker 1: for a while, so I'm like, I don't know if

1036
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: this is what high school looks like. Like they had

1037
00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 1: phones seems realistic to me, Like that was my bar

1038
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 1: for like does this make sense? I'm like, yeah, everyone's

1039
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 1: got fun, so clearly it's a high school. Another moment

1040
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 1: I liked, and I think this is part of why

1041
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,839
Speaker 1: I think this movie feels a lot more realistic than

1042
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 1: a lot of it's like Teen Predecessors, is that the

1043
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 1: big romantic gesture that Martin tries to do is like

1044
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 1: very similar to the thing that we see in like

1045
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 1: Ten Things. Yeah, he should not of dancing across the

1046
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 1: bleachers shouldn't work in that movie, though, does work to

1047
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: win that character back over. So I like that we

1048
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 1: see it not working. I'm imposing I'm imposing a moratorium

1049
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 1: on big gestures. They're not done forever, but I just

1050
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 1: need I just need a break. Sure, they're very aggressive,

1051
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 1: they're big, Yeah they're huge. But I hate about them

1052
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:54,920
Speaker 1: is they're too big, and I crumble under pressure daily,

1053
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 1: so it's putting a lot of pressure on the subject.

1054
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 1: It's crazy. It's like because then it's like you could

1055
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 1: do the most, like while you're performing this big thing

1056
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 1: in the football game, and then literally all people will

1057
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 1: remember is what the other person did to respond to him.

1058
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 1: That's what it's all out to. So it's really like

1059
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:20,960
Speaker 1: you're defining their legacy in this moment. And I thought

1060
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 1: it was great that Abby was honest with him without

1061
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 1: you know, being like, you know, which would have been

1062
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 1: a worst choice for that. It's so that whole thing

1063
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 1: made me think, and I'm like, this is this is

1064
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 1: probably about gender in some way where I've had multiple

1065
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 1: conversations with like my friends from high school or my

1066
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 1: friends from when I was younger that like, if something

1067
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 1: like that ever happened, or if someone ever asked you

1068
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:46,959
Speaker 1: to marry them at a sports game, that we would

1069
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 1: say yes so as not to humiliate them and then

1070
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 1: later tell them, actually, I can't do that. That's what

1071
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 1: I was protective. Yeah, I mean that was like, I

1072
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 1: don't know why I've had this. Probably every time I

1073
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 1: see a gesture like this, or you're out of sports

1074
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 1: game and it happened, You're like, even if I knew

1075
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:03,920
Speaker 1: the answer is no, I would say yes to protect

1076
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:08,440
Speaker 1: his feelings and then later be like, don't do big gestures. Literally,

1077
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 1: what would actually happen if this were to happen in

1078
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 1: high school is everyone in there would be losing their

1079
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 1: ship laughing, and then the girl would probably be like,

1080
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 1: oh my god, stop and she probably would like run out,

1081
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 1: like at least this is the way it would happen

1082
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 1: in my high school, so you would run away. But

1083
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:26,520
Speaker 1: my assessment of this moment is kids are not this mature,

1084
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 1: Like she's not just going to measurably sit there and

1085
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 1: be like, I'm so sorry, but I just don't think

1086
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 1: of you like this, but I would like to be friends.

1087
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 1: Like no, no one's doing And that's the moment everyone's like,

1088
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 1: she's twenty seven, Oh my god, why is she here?

1089
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like teens this day might

1090
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:47,120
Speaker 1: might have done that. I don't know. It is okay

1091
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 1: for me. I thought it was a good aspirational scene

1092
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 1: of like, okay, best case scenario for everyone involved. That

1093
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:57,439
Speaker 1: is a cool way to handle it. But they sort

1094
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 1: of lightly touch on how Martin becomes target of bullying

1095
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 1: after that, and there's just like a bunch of shitty

1096
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 1: memes about like shut down or like whatever. But I

1097
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 1: think I think realistically Abby would also be the target

1098
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 1: of some harassment based on that of like you fucking

1099
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 1: humiliated him, which is I think we're that whole mentality

1100
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 1: of like I would say yes even if that's not

1101
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 1: how I felt comes from of like you shouldn't humiliate

1102
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:26,400
Speaker 1: someone in public, even if they're putting you on the

1103
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 1: spot by Yeah. Here's a few other scenes that I

1104
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:35,479
Speaker 1: really liked the hetero coming out montage where Simon's talking

1105
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 1: about like why is the onus on queer people to

1106
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 1: have to come out? Like why can't straight people like

1107
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 1: you know this unfair societal expectation that's set up in

1108
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:47,600
Speaker 1: some great parent acting in that in that a little bit,

1109
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 1: and then we already touched on this a little bit,

1110
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 1: but the scene where miss Albright is like yelling at

1111
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:58,439
Speaker 1: the homophobic bully kids, that just energized to me for

1112
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 1: that was that was necessary. We love that character. And

1113
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: then she went all the way and yes, into infamy.

1114
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 1: And then I also really liked the scene where Simon

1115
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 1: yells at Martin for outing him because he's saying stuff

1116
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 1: like you took everything away from me in terms of

1117
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 1: like I get to Yeah, it's like I get to

1118
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 1: this should have been on my terms, how I do it,

1119
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:27,320
Speaker 1: when I do it, to whom I do it, etcetera,

1120
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:32,640
Speaker 1: And you took that away from me. And Martin, I

1121
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:36,600
Speaker 1: mean that character is really well written. I think we

1122
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 1: all hate him rightfully so, but but I was just like,

1123
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 1: oh my god, he's going to log into the in

1124
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 1: cell board and then we're fucking screwed. Martin is the

1125
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 1: type in cells have bora posters. It's proof, It's just

1126
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:55,920
Speaker 1: proof positive. I also like a large part of the

1127
01:01:55,960 --> 01:02:00,720
Speaker 1: movie is seeing a lot of like male vulnerable. Okay,

1128
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 1: so here's the thing. There's there's not that much to

1129
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 1: talk about in terms of the representation of women in

1130
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:09,920
Speaker 1: this movie, which makes sense because it's a movie about

1131
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 1: a gay it's not called Love Alexis Rebecca Simon, So

1132
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:22,240
Speaker 1: there's not a whole lot for us to talk about

1133
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 1: in those terms. But the things that I think are

1134
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 1: worth talking about are like the idea of masculinity, and

1135
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 1: you know it does right, I am not sure. Yeah,

1136
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 1: it's so weird because I'm so taken in by this

1137
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:41,920
Speaker 1: movie that I wasn't paying as close attention that they

1138
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 1: should have it did call attention to the fact, I'm like,

1139
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:48,439
Speaker 1: why aren't Leah and Abbey remotely friends for people who

1140
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:52,200
Speaker 1: seem to be together of the time, they don't speak,

1141
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 1: we don't know. That was like one thing that bothered

1142
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 1: me about Abby's character in the way it was written

1143
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:00,680
Speaker 1: was that as much as we know she's like, well rounded,

1144
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 1: she's a great person and also hot, she they like

1145
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 1: they do sort of like guys gal her a little

1146
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:09,439
Speaker 1: bit because she has no female friends that we see.

1147
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:12,400
Speaker 1: Even though she's around, She and Lea around or anything,

1148
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:16,160
Speaker 1: hardly see them interact. Yes, yeah, which I know is like,

1149
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 1: I mean, that's not going to happen in this movie.

1150
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:20,560
Speaker 1: It's not their movie. But I mean it was just

1151
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 1: weird a little bit more of them interacting. Not the

1152
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 1: worst thing to ever happen, but real quick about like

1153
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 1: male vulnerability that we see which we often don't see

1154
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 1: in most movies. Well, first of all, like Simon, the

1155
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 1: whole story revolves around him not being secure enough in

1156
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 1: his sexual identity to come out. We see like Nick

1157
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 1: being insecure about his like sexual inexperience. He's like, you know,

1158
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:55,520
Speaker 1: I've only had sex with one time, right, Things were

1159
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:57,800
Speaker 1: slipper United didn't put my dick in the right place,

1160
01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 1: and I'm insecure, but it was cute. I really liked that.

1161
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 1: And then here's something that rubbed me the wrong way

1162
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 1: a little bit where Martin, as he's seeking help from Simon,

1163
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:12,760
Speaker 1: say something like, I don't want your help changing me.

1164
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 1: I want your help getting Abby to like me for me,

1165
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 1: which I think is an important thing to happen, but

1166
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 1: I hate that it comes from this character who were

1167
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 1: meant to hate and who is wrong every other time

1168
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:30,880
Speaker 1: in the movie. I wish we had seen It's almost

1169
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 1: like the movie didn't decide if who that kid really was,

1170
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 1: Like was he just annoying and like he's a good

1171
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 1: person at heart but he's annoying, or is he like

1172
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 1: chaotic evil He's like a vicious blackmailer who is blackmailing

1173
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 1: and you're supposed to feel bad for him. At certain

1174
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:49,880
Speaker 1: points where it does feel a little I don't know

1175
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 1: this whole movie, and it's like it is what it is,

1176
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 1: kind of like what you're saying, but there are elements

1177
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 1: of it. I'm like, this is very focused groups to

1178
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:58,280
Speaker 1: the point where I'm like, I'm not sure exactly who

1179
01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 1: you're supposed to be that's what it is. It just

1180
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 1: feels like it was trying to be too many things

1181
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:04,920
Speaker 1: for two different people, and it's like, I don't know,

1182
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 1: maybe the villain could have just been a villain, Like

1183
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:11,520
Speaker 1: that's fine, he's irridamable, great, but like, don't make him

1184
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 1: this sympathetic, like, oh, he didn't mean to out you

1185
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 1: and funk your life up. It's like, No, the whole

1186
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:22,120
Speaker 1: four dollars thing at the end, I'm like, that's not

1187
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 1: a redemption. He doesn't need sounds horrible, Like if you

1188
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:29,040
Speaker 1: want to make arrangements for Butt six, you know emails

1189
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:34,080
Speaker 1: like yeah, God, does anyone have any other thoughts about

1190
01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:36,840
Speaker 1: the movie? I would say that I'm going to shout

1191
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 1: out the soundtrack again. The sounds gave me everything I love.

1192
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:42,440
Speaker 1: It's like late eighties early nineties throwbacks down. I love

1193
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:45,480
Speaker 1: that song wild Heart. I love that song Strawberries and

1194
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 1: Cigarettes that Troy Sevan does on the soundtrack. It's really good.

1195
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:53,440
Speaker 1: It's very evocative. It seems like they're almost like referencing

1196
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:58,480
Speaker 1: John Hughes. But yeah, by doing that a brave observation

1197
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 1: by me, Jamie that I'm sure. And it was one

1198
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:03,680
Speaker 1: of those movies where it was like maybe made maybe

1199
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 1: twice as good of a movie as that actually is.

1200
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:08,920
Speaker 1: With the music. Oh yeah, I thought it actually like

1201
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 1: really served like an atmospheric purpose, which is what it

1202
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 1: should do. Wow. I think Alfred Willina could have played Simon. Sure, Honestly,

1203
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:21,560
Speaker 1: I think they could really strategy make a sixteen year

1204
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:24,880
Speaker 1: old man play a queer teenager. Now that his progress,

1205
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:27,919
Speaker 1: it's so funny to even think about Simon as being

1206
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:31,000
Speaker 1: queer because he's just so straight the whole time. Well okay,

1207
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 1: stylized completely straight. That is one thing I wanted to

1208
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:36,720
Speaker 1: touch on because we talked a little bit about this.

1209
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:40,200
Speaker 1: Another criticism around this, Yeah, well he's just like, you know,

1210
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 1: he's the definition of walking the world and with complete privilege.

1211
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:48,480
Speaker 1: I mean, he doesn't even need to code switch. That's

1212
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:53,200
Speaker 1: just who is who he is, like to play Devil's advocate.

1213
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 1: And again I'm coming from a place of not being

1214
01:06:56,800 --> 01:07:02,840
Speaker 1: a gay man. Uh, it needed to be said, Caitlin.

1215
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:05,320
Speaker 1: I know that people have been wondering that I've been

1216
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:10,240
Speaker 1: am I blue? Was I blue? I don't know? Maybe

1217
01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:13,160
Speaker 1: I anyway, So we talked a little bit about this

1218
01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:16,600
Speaker 1: on their recent DEBS episode. But in that episode, I

1219
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:21,040
Speaker 1: appreciated that because any time like a lesbian is portrayed

1220
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 1: in a mainstream movie, usually it is someone who presents

1221
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 1: as very butch. You know, they're they're made to adhere

1222
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:35,240
Speaker 1: to these like rigid stereotypes. And similarly, when gay men

1223
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:39,680
Speaker 1: are portrayed in mainstream movies, they're usually presented in such

1224
01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 1: a way that they're very flamboyant, because I think Hollywood's like, well,

1225
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:46,760
Speaker 1: how will anyone know they're gay unless we make them

1226
01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:50,080
Speaker 1: so flamboyant. Here's what I would say about it. It's like,

1227
01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:52,520
Speaker 1: you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't.

1228
01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 1: Because if you depict the kid as being more gay

1229
01:07:56,360 --> 01:08:00,240
Speaker 1: acting quote unquote right, then you get a bunch of

1230
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:03,280
Speaker 1: people that are like, well, there we are again depicted

1231
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:06,040
Speaker 1: as being this way. And then if you depict the

1232
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 1: kids being very straight acting, especially when he's played by

1233
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 1: a straight actor in real life, you get this thing

1234
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:14,440
Speaker 1: of like that feels like a raiser. But there are

1235
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:17,519
Speaker 1: tons of gay men that act like simon, lots of

1236
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:20,559
Speaker 1: gay men I wore masculine. It's hard to find a balance,

1237
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:23,200
Speaker 1: and I think it speaks to it speaks less to

1238
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:26,640
Speaker 1: what these individual films are doing, and more to the

1239
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:29,599
Speaker 1: fact that there just isn't and hasn't ever been enough

1240
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:34,080
Speaker 1: representation period because every single time one character comes out,

1241
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:36,760
Speaker 1: we put all the weight in the world on it. Like,

1242
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:39,160
Speaker 1: for example, when I was growing up and there was

1243
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 1: Will and Grace, it was like, are you a Will

1244
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 1: or a Jack? And we didn't know what it was

1245
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:47,439
Speaker 1: like to be anything else, So it was either you

1246
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:50,760
Speaker 1: are really straight, acting to where you would never know

1247
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:53,720
Speaker 1: and you even even the people that you date are

1248
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:56,800
Speaker 1: like really even more straight acting like cops. I don't

1249
01:08:56,800 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 1: know if you remember Will's boyfriend played by Bobby kind

1250
01:08:59,880 --> 01:09:03,160
Speaker 1: of Ali, who was like this like super butch cop

1251
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:08,320
Speaker 1: or your Jack, who essentially is a like a joke,

1252
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:14,240
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like he was abroad sweeping stereotype.

1253
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:17,679
Speaker 1: So I think as a result of that, it's hard

1254
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:20,800
Speaker 1: to gauge like whether or not this movie made a

1255
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:24,920
Speaker 1: mistake or not, because like there just isn't enough representation,

1256
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 1: and you can't say that people aren't out there and

1257
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:29,400
Speaker 1: are gay and they act like that, because they do.

1258
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:32,479
Speaker 1: There's a whole spectrum as it turns out. I don't know,

1259
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:34,680
Speaker 1: I think, like this is weird to say, but like

1260
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:37,040
Speaker 1: as someone who sort of identifies as being somewhere in

1261
01:09:37,120 --> 01:09:39,479
Speaker 1: the middle. When I want to turn it on, I

1262
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 1: can be very flamboyant, and then the way I'm speaking

1263
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:44,960
Speaker 1: to you guys right now, you know, I don't know

1264
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:48,439
Speaker 1: if someone would quote unquote no, it's just hard because

1265
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:52,200
Speaker 1: like we can't see ourselves. All we see are like

1266
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:55,280
Speaker 1: each other, and then depictions of ourselves in media, and

1267
01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:57,439
Speaker 1: we're just not up there that much. So I think,

1268
01:09:57,479 --> 01:10:00,559
Speaker 1: like I don't necessarily have too much of a problem

1269
01:09:59,840 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 1: with with this particular movie in that regard. Maybe maybe

1270
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 1: maybe there's something to the fact that they have a

1271
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:09,559
Speaker 1: straight actor playing him. Yes, which is like a case

1272
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:13,000
Speaker 1: by case it always feels tough. Yeah, I was gonna

1273
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:15,400
Speaker 1: ask how you felt about well, because I'll say this, like,

1274
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:18,880
Speaker 1: for example, for the auditions that I go on, it's

1275
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:21,720
Speaker 1: hard because a lot of the characters are just like stereotypes,

1276
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 1: like and you can feel them trying on the page

1277
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:27,679
Speaker 1: to not make it like that, like in the breakdown,

1278
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:30,479
Speaker 1: it won't be like gay and he knows it. You know,

1279
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:33,960
Speaker 1: he wears a fucking crazy scarf. He loves to wave

1280
01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 1: his finger. It's not like that. But it's like whenever

1281
01:10:37,479 --> 01:10:41,000
Speaker 1: anyone writes girl comma in any line, it's like, Okay,

1282
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:43,519
Speaker 1: you try too hard, you know what I mean. But

1283
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:46,120
Speaker 1: it's at least interesting and at least good to see

1284
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:49,400
Speaker 1: them trying. But I don't think we're ever going to

1285
01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:52,600
Speaker 1: get to the point where we're where we're not precious

1286
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:55,479
Speaker 1: about each and every character depiction up there until we

1287
01:10:55,560 --> 01:11:00,200
Speaker 1: see more. And unfortunately, like I'm not being offered to

1288
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:02,800
Speaker 1: play a lot of straight parts, and I don't know

1289
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:04,920
Speaker 1: a lot of gay actors that are out there openly

1290
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:08,680
Speaker 1: gay who are just routinely booking straight roles. So when

1291
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:13,280
Speaker 1: it feels like the vice versa is true, often it's

1292
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:16,880
Speaker 1: frustrating because there's tons of gay actors out there that

1293
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:20,040
Speaker 1: are just as talented as these straight guys. And yet

1294
01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:25,560
Speaker 1: Heath Ledger and Jake Jillen Hall, allegedly straight actors um

1295
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:29,879
Speaker 1: performing and broke Back Mountain like the seminal gay romance

1296
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:32,800
Speaker 1: of our time, and then to see that continue to

1297
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:35,240
Speaker 1: do that as an eighteen and like Love Simon is

1298
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:38,639
Speaker 1: like the gay mainstream movie and Nick Robinson is playing

1299
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:40,800
Speaker 1: it and he's straight. I'm not saying they all didn't

1300
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:44,880
Speaker 1: do a great job. It's just about representation. Yeah, and

1301
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:47,680
Speaker 1: and the fact that I mean this, I believe that

1302
01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:50,320
Speaker 1: this was adapted by and originally written by, like it

1303
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:53,120
Speaker 1: was written by top to bottom straight people. Yeah, the

1304
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:57,599
Speaker 1: director Greg Berlante is gay, so there's that. But like

1305
01:11:57,640 --> 01:12:00,320
Speaker 1: you said with the focus group comment, you know this

1306
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:02,799
Speaker 1: was filtered through a straight line that this is essentially

1307
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 1: the Abbey of like of like you know, it's like

1308
01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:10,599
Speaker 1: a gay thing for straight people. Um, so it just

1309
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:17,000
Speaker 1: feels like that's even named abbey. I was surprised to

1310
01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:20,280
Speaker 1: learn the novel that this movie is based on was

1311
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:23,880
Speaker 1: written by a woman I thought for sure a gay man,

1312
01:12:24,240 --> 01:12:27,519
Speaker 1: but it was written by a straight lady, which is like, yeah,

1313
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:29,599
Speaker 1: I mean with with stories like that, it's so hard

1314
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:31,479
Speaker 1: to find a story, and I think it does speak

1315
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:34,120
Speaker 1: to like the amount of pressure that is put on

1316
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:36,680
Speaker 1: queer stories because there's just not enough of them. But

1317
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:39,599
Speaker 1: it's like, I feel like you can always trace it

1318
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:46,479
Speaker 1: back to a pretty heteronormative source, which is just when

1319
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:50,360
Speaker 1: you actually lived that experience. Okay, So I really very

1320
01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 1: closely almost went through this exact experience, like I wasn't

1321
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:55,320
Speaker 1: out it in high school. But like the way that

1322
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:58,839
Speaker 1: he goes about his life the interest he like claims

1323
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:01,640
Speaker 1: to have, Like I didn't not see myself in it,

1324
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:03,400
Speaker 1: and so that's why I was a little bit sensitive

1325
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:07,000
Speaker 1: to the criticism. But yet now having like time with

1326
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:11,240
Speaker 1: the movie, I can see the criticism you wish because

1327
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:14,080
Speaker 1: it really got it, really was there. You wish it

1328
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 1: had really gotten it, you know what I mean. And

1329
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:19,400
Speaker 1: I do think with like maybe three or four more

1330
01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:23,240
Speaker 1: like gay creatives in high positions there, or like maybe

1331
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:26,439
Speaker 1: even a gay actor, like just a suggestion could have

1332
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:29,240
Speaker 1: been made of like I feel like he's too upset here,

1333
01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 1: or he's not upset enough here, you know what I mean.

1334
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 1: Like there was some specific emotional movement moments where I

1335
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:38,160
Speaker 1: was like watching him act the situation and I was like,

1336
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:42,320
Speaker 1: it's so specifically something else, you know what I mean,

1337
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:44,559
Speaker 1: just as an actor watching and I was like, this

1338
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:48,519
Speaker 1: is all on the page, but you're not getting it

1339
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 1: right now, or just like or like you're getting it

1340
01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:53,639
Speaker 1: right now, but the script isn't allowing you to say

1341
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:55,680
Speaker 1: what it really is. Like there was a couple of

1342
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:58,479
Speaker 1: times where it all came together, like him saying like

1343
01:13:58,760 --> 01:14:01,080
Speaker 1: this was my thing to do and you took that

1344
01:14:01,160 --> 01:14:03,800
Speaker 1: from me. That's really good, you know what I mean.

1345
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:06,040
Speaker 1: That was like right there, But then there was like

1346
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:09,040
Speaker 1: moments like with the dad and the mom where I

1347
01:14:09,080 --> 01:14:12,080
Speaker 1: just felt like more emotional response was needed, or just

1348
01:14:12,160 --> 01:14:14,439
Speaker 1: like little tiny things like where it just didn't feel

1349
01:14:14,479 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 1: measured in the right way, where I was like, chemically,

1350
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:19,400
Speaker 1: I think that this actor just maybe is just not

1351
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:23,360
Speaker 1: capable of acting this scenario. But I found him very

1352
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:28,840
Speaker 1: appealing overall. So focus group wise, for everyone, the movie

1353
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:32,200
Speaker 1: works for me who went to the specific experience and

1354
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:35,320
Speaker 1: it is a specific experience and should be treated as such.

1355
01:14:35,720 --> 01:14:37,800
Speaker 1: I could just see the little things that weren't right,

1356
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:40,719
Speaker 1: So so it's like, yes, I'm I happy the movie exists.

1357
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:45,000
Speaker 1: Is it like a fucking Grand Slam home run to me? No,

1358
01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:47,559
Speaker 1: because it wasn't as specific as it should have been,

1359
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:49,800
Speaker 1: which is the point I made before about like that's

1360
01:14:49,800 --> 01:14:51,679
Speaker 1: when you really get at the heart of these things

1361
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:55,679
Speaker 1: and move people, is when you actually get specific. Because

1362
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:58,240
Speaker 1: I was more moved by Precious than I was by

1363
01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:01,000
Speaker 1: Love Simon, and I didn't I I'm not. I didn't

1364
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:02,720
Speaker 1: go through that, you know what I mean. But I

1365
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:06,640
Speaker 1: can appreciate the specificity and the attention to detail that

1366
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:09,799
Speaker 1: goes into something like that, whereas this was like, Okay,

1367
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:11,519
Speaker 1: you made you made a movie that tried to make

1368
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:13,479
Speaker 1: a lot of money and make straight people happy and

1369
01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:16,599
Speaker 1: make them feel good for seeing it, which I am

1370
01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:20,280
Speaker 1: guilty of, but but you should feel like that. It

1371
01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:23,400
Speaker 1: should make people feel good. Yeah, I mean, it's there's

1372
01:15:23,439 --> 01:15:27,719
Speaker 1: so many double I don't know. Yeah, with with this, yeah,

1373
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:29,439
Speaker 1: it's a tough one. And it all comes down to,

1374
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:32,040
Speaker 1: like I said before, they're just not being enough. So

1375
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:34,040
Speaker 1: this is the first one, and I'm happy it was

1376
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:37,240
Speaker 1: the first one, but because you know what, you get

1377
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:39,439
Speaker 1: into like a lot of the nitty gritty about like

1378
01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:41,760
Speaker 1: what actually goes down in Ethan Ethan's life, and then

1379
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:44,360
Speaker 1: it is a sad movie, you know what I mean.

1380
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:47,400
Speaker 1: But I do think like this movie opens the door

1381
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:51,080
Speaker 1: up to this conversation, and therefore, because this conversation exists,

1382
01:15:51,479 --> 01:15:53,640
Speaker 1: that movie is more likely to be seen. And I

1383
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:55,559
Speaker 1: do think our I should be open to the reality

1384
01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:57,280
Speaker 1: of what it's like to be a queer person of color.

1385
01:15:57,360 --> 01:16:00,559
Speaker 1: I don't think it is like and so you know,

1386
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:02,679
Speaker 1: it's even been eye opening for me in the last

1387
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:06,840
Speaker 1: few years, Like in my late twenties, I'm much much

1388
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:09,719
Speaker 1: closer with my close friends that are gay and also

1389
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:12,280
Speaker 1: people of color, and it's just like, you know, the

1390
01:16:12,320 --> 01:16:15,680
Speaker 1: sexual realities of that, the romantic realities of that, the

1391
01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:18,840
Speaker 1: social realities of that, the the realities of that in

1392
01:16:18,920 --> 01:16:22,160
Speaker 1: terms of online dating, in terms of useach of the apps,

1393
01:16:22,200 --> 01:16:25,799
Speaker 1: it's like very dark and I we haven't even touched

1394
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:30,840
Speaker 1: on it. My best friend is a gay man. Brag

1395
01:16:34,439 --> 01:16:38,000
Speaker 1: is no, he just bought a house. He purchased with

1396
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:46,400
Speaker 1: the house um. But when he was single and on Grinder,

1397
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:51,360
Speaker 1: he would show me all these profiles of white guys

1398
01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:55,280
Speaker 1: being like no blacks, no fats, no Asians, is the

1399
01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:58,160
Speaker 1: popular mask only, like all that kind of stuff, And

1400
01:16:58,200 --> 01:17:01,560
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, there's still a lot of discrimination

1401
01:17:01,640 --> 01:17:06,559
Speaker 1: within a community that is marginalized and being repressed. So

1402
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:11,000
Speaker 1: that that's the disease amongst especially white gaze is you know,

1403
01:17:11,320 --> 01:17:15,600
Speaker 1: they have this narrative in their heads. We have this

1404
01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:21,120
Speaker 1: narrative in our heads of we've been oppressed. We think

1405
01:17:21,160 --> 01:17:24,439
Speaker 1: it might be as painful or equal to anyone else

1406
01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:27,920
Speaker 1: who's been oppressed. And then when we do overcome that

1407
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:31,840
Speaker 1: quote unquote oppression um, which most of us do in

1408
01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:38,280
Speaker 1: our teens or early twenties, we then feel entitled to saying, well,

1409
01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:40,640
Speaker 1: I've been through enough, now I'm allowed to have my

1410
01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:45,200
Speaker 1: quote unquote preferences. And so a lot of people aren't

1411
01:17:45,240 --> 01:17:47,519
Speaker 1: ready to reckon with the fact that, like they have

1412
01:17:47,680 --> 01:17:51,120
Speaker 1: racism in them just because you've been oppressed in terms

1413
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:55,280
Speaker 1: of a society like that that you're a sexual minority

1414
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:58,720
Speaker 1: or your your sexual preferences are keep you in the minority.

1415
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:02,800
Speaker 1: Like they think the they're like better than racism, they

1416
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:07,800
Speaker 1: think that they're immune to it. Yeah, it festers, and

1417
01:18:07,880 --> 01:18:10,240
Speaker 1: of course, I mean we like with white feminism, you

1418
01:18:10,240 --> 01:18:12,360
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like it just doesn't include everyone.

1419
01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:15,880
Speaker 1: And so then you're on these apps and you think

1420
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:19,200
Speaker 1: to yourself, like we should be the last people where

1421
01:18:19,240 --> 01:18:23,960
Speaker 1: this is like thriving. But like you can walk in

1422
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:27,240
Speaker 1: the streets and not hear something racist. If you go

1423
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:30,960
Speaker 1: on these apps, you will see something racist, you will,

1424
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:34,200
Speaker 1: I mean. And then there's all the like transphobia within

1425
01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:38,320
Speaker 1: the queer community. You know, there's all kinds of like

1426
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:43,360
Speaker 1: you know, discrimination within these communities. And it feels like

1427
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:47,200
Speaker 1: we're making strides, feels like things are getting a little better.

1428
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:50,720
Speaker 1: But and I think that the movie Existing is a

1429
01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:53,960
Speaker 1: good thing because I think ultimately like, and I know

1430
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:56,720
Speaker 1: that's not even what we're debating, but um, like, it

1431
01:18:56,760 --> 01:18:59,679
Speaker 1: has been a debate, like amongst gay friends of mine

1432
01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:03,040
Speaker 1: who really don't like the movie, because I think there's

1433
01:19:03,080 --> 01:19:07,800
Speaker 1: a mentality that this movie like purports to represent more

1434
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:09,760
Speaker 1: people than it does, and I don't think that's true.

1435
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:12,719
Speaker 1: I think that this movie is telling a story about

1436
01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:16,720
Speaker 1: a kid coming to terms with the sexuality. Um But,

1437
01:19:16,880 --> 01:19:18,439
Speaker 1: like I said, because it's the only one, we put

1438
01:19:18,479 --> 01:19:20,559
Speaker 1: all this weight on it. And I think that because

1439
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:24,280
Speaker 1: this movie exists, we're able to have these conversations about

1440
01:19:24,280 --> 01:19:26,240
Speaker 1: what it gets right about what it doesn't. And that's

1441
01:19:26,280 --> 01:19:30,680
Speaker 1: film criticism, which is for many people what advances the

1442
01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:36,760
Speaker 1: cinematic form anyway. So I've seen the conversation truly, especially

1443
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:42,439
Speaker 1: in this room. Yes we're such heroes, but it's it's

1444
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:45,200
Speaker 1: been very interesting to see the conversation about this movie.

1445
01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:48,040
Speaker 1: Like I had. I talked with someone one time I

1446
01:19:48,120 --> 01:19:50,400
Speaker 1: really didn't like this criticism of it, but he said

1447
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:54,640
Speaker 1: that he felt that the Natasha Rothwell character was a

1448
01:19:54,720 --> 01:19:59,080
Speaker 1: magical Negro and I was like, that's a really interesting,

1449
01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:02,240
Speaker 1: weird to say, and he was like, the movie uses

1450
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:04,960
Speaker 1: her to like save the day and it's not fair.

1451
01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:06,559
Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, but what are you saying,

1452
01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:09,880
Speaker 1: like if that part was played by Chelsea Handler? Would

1453
01:20:10,280 --> 01:20:12,280
Speaker 1: would would it make it like you could not change

1454
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:14,640
Speaker 1: the script, and would it make the movie stronger? And

1455
01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:17,360
Speaker 1: so now, and that's when I think there was a

1456
01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:19,679
Speaker 1: real fever picture on this movie where in the gay

1457
01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:24,559
Speaker 1: community conversations like this we're happening, that we're truly picking

1458
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:28,200
Speaker 1: it apart bit by bit, And I think that is

1459
01:20:28,240 --> 01:20:29,920
Speaker 1: not helpful, you know what I mean? Because I think

1460
01:20:29,960 --> 01:20:32,400
Speaker 1: that's Hasha Rothwell is amazing in the movie, and I'm

1461
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:35,120
Speaker 1: sure she feels fine being in it. I'm sure she

1462
01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:38,280
Speaker 1: doesn't feel utilized in that way. We just want her

1463
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:40,680
Speaker 1: to get paid as much as humanly possible. I was

1464
01:20:40,760 --> 01:20:42,479
Speaker 1: just like, I was just like, it's odd to me

1465
01:20:42,600 --> 01:20:45,599
Speaker 1: to like use that criticism against this movie, but that's

1466
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:47,920
Speaker 1: what was happening, and that's what happens. I think when

1467
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:51,360
Speaker 1: there's just not enough representation, that's all there to talk about,

1468
01:20:51,360 --> 01:20:56,760
Speaker 1: then we'll talk about it. I mean, the thesis of

1469
01:20:57,160 --> 01:21:00,760
Speaker 1: this discussion and our whole podcast is we need more

1470
01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:08,840
Speaker 1: and better representation. We okay, let's okay, bachtel test. I

1471
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:12,800
Speaker 1: think there are a few scenes that come close. I

1472
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:15,720
Speaker 1: tried to document all of them, but I think I

1473
01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:18,400
Speaker 1: might have missed some. But like, there's a scene where

1474
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:21,000
Speaker 1: the mom is like, let's watch the affair, and then

1475
01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:23,120
Speaker 1: Simon says, we can't watch the affair as a family,

1476
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:25,000
Speaker 1: and the mom says why not, and then the sister

1477
01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:28,000
Speaker 1: chimes in, Norah, we know her name, she says, because

1478
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:30,400
Speaker 1: it's all about sex, and then mom says, god forbid.

1479
01:21:30,479 --> 01:21:33,200
Speaker 1: We see people make love. So it's like a conversation

1480
01:21:33,240 --> 01:21:36,280
Speaker 1: where men are present and then also contributing to the conversation.

1481
01:21:36,360 --> 01:21:40,679
Speaker 1: But there's like a two line exchange where just women

1482
01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:44,000
Speaker 1: are tugging yeah, and they need to be alone, not

1483
01:21:44,200 --> 01:21:47,880
Speaker 1: nerve version of it. All these different caveats, I feel

1484
01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:51,760
Speaker 1: like maybe yeah, I feel I'm I'm not so quick

1485
01:21:51,760 --> 01:21:55,400
Speaker 1: to say this one counts. And it's also based on yeah,

1486
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:57,680
Speaker 1: it's also based on our response Simon has to it

1487
01:21:58,080 --> 01:22:03,479
Speaker 1: and they're talking about head roast sex, right, so probably not.

1488
01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:07,439
Speaker 1: There is a scene where Abby says I just found

1489
01:22:07,479 --> 01:22:10,439
Speaker 1: a press on nail in my salad, and then Abby

1490
01:22:10,479 --> 01:22:14,560
Speaker 1: and Leah at the same time say Debbie. They're accusing

1491
01:22:14,640 --> 01:22:20,160
Speaker 1: Debbie of her nails. I'm so sick of these passes.

1492
01:22:20,200 --> 01:22:23,200
Speaker 1: I think I don't know how to just be like,

1493
01:22:23,479 --> 01:22:26,160
Speaker 1: who is that fucking judge who was like, I can't

1494
01:22:26,160 --> 01:22:27,760
Speaker 1: define porn, but I know it when I see it.

1495
01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:29,599
Speaker 1: That's how I feel about the Betel Test at this point.

1496
01:22:30,200 --> 01:22:33,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm no more of these bullshit passes. Yeah,

1497
01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:37,960
Speaker 1: and then there is a scene where Leah says, thanks

1498
01:22:37,960 --> 01:22:40,800
Speaker 1: for letting me stay over. Simon's mom says, you've been

1499
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:43,160
Speaker 1: staying over for ten years. You don't have to thank us,

1500
01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:46,599
Speaker 1: and then Leah says, oh, yeah, that's so that as

1501
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:49,760
Speaker 1: close as it comes insightful, know, I know, I know,

1502
01:22:50,160 --> 01:22:52,960
Speaker 1: I'm surprised women don't interact more in this. I don't

1503
01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:55,439
Speaker 1: know if I'm surprised. I guess based on how many

1504
01:22:55,479 --> 01:22:58,519
Speaker 1: female characters there are, we would have a few more

1505
01:22:58,800 --> 01:23:04,000
Speaker 1: interactions betwe mean women, but we only have like these

1506
01:23:04,000 --> 01:23:07,559
Speaker 1: and then a couple that don't pass the test. And

1507
01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:09,680
Speaker 1: I guess that's not any objective of the movie. But

1508
01:23:09,720 --> 01:23:12,600
Speaker 1: there are always like opportunities to make this, and I

1509
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:15,439
Speaker 1: feel like Leah and Abbey are the biggest missed opportunity there.

1510
01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:19,919
Speaker 1: They're around each other the whole time. Yeah, and friends

1511
01:23:20,240 --> 01:23:23,840
Speaker 1: and allegedly. And also I'm realizing right now that the

1512
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:27,040
Speaker 1: mom and Leah discussing her staying over that can't pass

1513
01:23:27,080 --> 01:23:28,960
Speaker 1: the Bechtel test because they're talking about the house and

1514
01:23:29,040 --> 01:23:32,439
Speaker 1: that house identifies as a male. I think it's very big.

1515
01:23:32,479 --> 01:23:35,280
Speaker 1: It's making itself known, and it's like taking up a

1516
01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:37,920
Speaker 1: lot of up a lot of space. Like and also

1517
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:40,280
Speaker 1: the subtext is like, thanks for letting me stay over

1518
01:23:40,479 --> 01:23:44,200
Speaker 1: with Simon, which also why was that allowed? I'm like,

1519
01:23:44,280 --> 01:23:48,559
Speaker 1: I wish my mom when I was seventeen playing while

1520
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:50,920
Speaker 1: they were in that room. Is there a boat in

1521
01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:57,160
Speaker 1: the body? I'm on a week for I was like, fine,

1522
01:23:57,360 --> 01:23:59,360
Speaker 1: want to let me know. I was like, this is

1523
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:04,360
Speaker 1: like a sex see adults romantic song. Very the whole

1524
01:24:04,400 --> 01:24:06,559
Speaker 1: film was horny, and I like that about it. Oh yes,

1525
01:24:06,600 --> 01:24:08,840
Speaker 1: I'm fully I think it would have may be more

1526
01:24:08,920 --> 01:24:12,200
Speaker 1: uncomfortable if the actors were underage, but they were so

1527
01:24:12,240 --> 01:24:17,760
Speaker 1: clearly forty years old. I'm like, this is great. There, No,

1528
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:22,840
Speaker 1: the younger sister was older than they actually were, like

1529
01:24:22,960 --> 01:24:27,840
Speaker 1: drama school together. Yeah, she she's in the affair Like

1530
01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:33,040
Speaker 1: that was an inside joke. Oh gosh, okay, so let's

1531
01:24:33,120 --> 01:24:36,599
Speaker 1: write the movie on our nipple scale zero to five

1532
01:24:36,720 --> 01:24:40,160
Speaker 1: nipples based on its portrayal of women. Oh, that's true,

1533
01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:42,559
Speaker 1: this is true. It's not fair for this right because

1534
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:46,559
Speaker 1: I will. I would give it a five though, would you? Yeah,

1535
01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:49,639
Speaker 1: because I think that the female characters that presents are

1536
01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:52,400
Speaker 1: all three dimensional, I would agree with that, I do,

1537
01:24:52,560 --> 01:24:54,439
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? They're not the focus. They're

1538
01:24:54,479 --> 01:24:57,040
Speaker 1: not driving the story, or at least if they are,

1539
01:24:57,080 --> 01:25:01,000
Speaker 1: it's passively because it's Martin like black Aileen Simon because

1540
01:25:01,000 --> 01:25:04,479
Speaker 1: he wants to funck Abby. So they're not necessarily very

1541
01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:07,360
Speaker 1: active characters. But the way they're written, the way they're presented,

1542
01:25:07,479 --> 01:25:14,479
Speaker 1: I do feel like they're dynamic, interesting, multidimensional characters. Yeah.

1543
01:25:14,520 --> 01:25:16,559
Speaker 1: They in terms of just being in a script and

1544
01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:19,960
Speaker 1: being supporting characters. They're written well and I helped that

1545
01:25:20,160 --> 01:25:23,360
Speaker 1: the story. And they're not functional in a way that

1546
01:25:23,560 --> 01:25:27,080
Speaker 1: it feels like we're losing their integrity as characters, you

1547
01:25:27,080 --> 01:25:29,840
Speaker 1: know what I mean. The mom is like progressive and

1548
01:25:29,960 --> 01:25:33,160
Speaker 1: lovely and a good mom, you know, but she's also

1549
01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:36,320
Speaker 1: interested in other things besides being a mom, which is

1550
01:25:36,360 --> 01:25:38,559
Speaker 1: something we don't see in a lot of these movies.

1551
01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:40,559
Speaker 1: And it's so rare that we know what the mom's

1552
01:25:40,640 --> 01:25:42,479
Speaker 1: job is, and we don't know what the dad's job is.

1553
01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:46,200
Speaker 1: That never happens, and it seems like, I mean, based

1554
01:25:46,240 --> 01:25:47,680
Speaker 1: on that unless it was like a cut scene, it

1555
01:25:47,680 --> 01:25:50,439
Speaker 1: seems like she's the breadwinner of the family, which is cool.

1556
01:25:50,640 --> 01:25:52,880
Speaker 1: And also, you know the character of Abby like she

1557
01:25:52,960 --> 01:25:55,519
Speaker 1: does she stays true to herself the whole time, Like

1558
01:25:55,600 --> 01:25:58,880
Speaker 1: she doesn't just allow herself to be talked about or

1559
01:25:58,920 --> 01:26:03,920
Speaker 1: like dealt if by the men. She is truthful to herself.

1560
01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:07,759
Speaker 1: You know, Leah the character, she says what she feels

1561
01:26:07,920 --> 01:26:10,640
Speaker 1: and it's well performed and you get the sense that

1562
01:26:10,680 --> 01:26:13,840
Speaker 1: she'll go on to be a dynamic person. Yeah, there

1563
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:16,479
Speaker 1: there was I the word I think about. I mean,

1564
01:26:16,479 --> 01:26:18,840
Speaker 1: it's like Anne, it's kind of rare that you know

1565
01:26:19,200 --> 01:26:22,479
Speaker 1: Simon's two female friends better than you know Nick. I

1566
01:26:22,479 --> 01:26:25,400
Speaker 1: know almost nothing about Nick. He plays soccer, he had

1567
01:26:25,439 --> 01:26:29,080
Speaker 1: sex ones, like that's all we know about him. Really, um,

1568
01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:33,360
Speaker 1: where you do have like full scenes where I appreciated

1569
01:26:33,400 --> 01:26:36,000
Speaker 1: the extra work going into Abby's character of like, Okay,

1570
01:26:36,080 --> 01:26:38,600
Speaker 1: she's new, she's from a lower class background. We know

1571
01:26:38,720 --> 01:26:40,960
Speaker 1: she has like her dad is an alcohol like these

1572
01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:43,000
Speaker 1: are all things I think fifteen years ago we would

1573
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:46,000
Speaker 1: never find out about those characters. And the same with Leah,

1574
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:48,680
Speaker 1: of you know, I mean, I can strongly identify with

1575
01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:50,640
Speaker 1: her being the long suffering, being in love with her

1576
01:26:50,640 --> 01:26:53,000
Speaker 1: gay best friend and just being like no, but like

1577
01:26:53,760 --> 01:26:57,400
Speaker 1: it's played responsibly. I'm glad that. I mean. The only

1578
01:26:57,439 --> 01:27:00,200
Speaker 1: thing that made me feel weird is Leah turning her

1579
01:27:00,240 --> 01:27:05,160
Speaker 1: back on Simon in his moment of utmost need. That

1580
01:27:05,760 --> 01:27:08,719
Speaker 1: was very put off by. But I'm glad that Abby.

1581
01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:10,800
Speaker 1: I mean, Abby I think is like the best female

1582
01:27:10,880 --> 01:27:13,960
Speaker 1: character in the story because she she is always like

1583
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:16,479
Speaker 1: almost to a point where it's unrealistic for a teenager

1584
01:27:16,520 --> 01:27:20,519
Speaker 1: to be so like mature and always knows the right

1585
01:27:20,720 --> 01:27:23,280
Speaker 1: thing to do. Um. But it's I mean, it's like

1586
01:27:23,280 --> 01:27:26,760
Speaker 1: if we're making a movie to set an example for teenagers,

1587
01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:29,880
Speaker 1: which in theory this movie would be, then she's great

1588
01:27:29,960 --> 01:27:32,439
Speaker 1: and I think it works works well, you know, and

1589
01:27:32,600 --> 01:27:35,040
Speaker 1: and good for the little girl. She got a queens

1590
01:27:35,040 --> 01:27:38,120
Speaker 1: and art. Yeah, incredible. I hope she gets better at cooking,

1591
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:43,280
Speaker 1: because women be cooking women. But to me that there's

1592
01:27:43,400 --> 01:27:46,360
Speaker 1: enough of like yeah, yeah, I I think I'm going

1593
01:27:46,400 --> 01:27:49,320
Speaker 1: to give it. I'm not prepared to give it a five.

1594
01:27:49,479 --> 01:27:51,760
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to give it maybe a three

1595
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:56,880
Speaker 1: and a half because you, well, we we should, we

1596
01:27:56,880 --> 01:28:00,559
Speaker 1: should ask that question more. Yeah, we'll be because we

1597
01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:04,880
Speaker 1: in our ratings we also take into account like the

1598
01:28:04,920 --> 01:28:09,559
Speaker 1: representation of people of color, of queer people, of other

1599
01:28:09,640 --> 01:28:13,120
Speaker 1: marginalized groups of which we almost never see on screen.

1600
01:28:14,000 --> 01:28:18,280
Speaker 1: But because as we've talked about, like there's an introduction

1601
01:28:18,479 --> 01:28:21,920
Speaker 1: of at least two queer people who are also people

1602
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:26,200
Speaker 1: of color, and the movie glossing over their experience, their

1603
01:28:26,240 --> 01:28:29,720
Speaker 1: specific experience, I feel like that could have been I mean,

1604
01:28:29,760 --> 01:28:33,200
Speaker 1: the movie probably should have been like Love Bram or

1605
01:28:33,560 --> 01:28:36,479
Speaker 1: Love Ethan, Like I mean, I think maybe we'll get

1606
01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:40,880
Speaker 1: there someday, but get that, you know what I mean, Like,

1607
01:28:44,320 --> 01:28:48,200
Speaker 1: so it will get that we're slowly progressing is a

1608
01:28:48,240 --> 01:28:52,040
Speaker 1: people in a culture and in the film industry. But um,

1609
01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:54,439
Speaker 1: and then, I don't know, this is tricky just because

1610
01:28:54,439 --> 01:28:57,439
Speaker 1: like women aren't the focus. It's a tricky movie too.

1611
01:28:57,800 --> 01:29:00,280
Speaker 1: But if you're going to have a movie that where

1612
01:29:00,280 --> 01:29:03,840
Speaker 1: women aren't the focus, great that it's a queer male

1613
01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:06,800
Speaker 1: love story, Like that's what that best I could hope for.

1614
01:29:06,880 --> 01:29:08,760
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to go for on it. But

1615
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:10,880
Speaker 1: I mean the only it's weird though, because it's like

1616
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:13,960
Speaker 1: my My only criticism of the female characters is I

1617
01:29:14,000 --> 01:29:15,920
Speaker 1: feel the same way about the male characters is that

1618
01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:20,320
Speaker 1: they just feel a little bit uncanny Valley overly workshopped

1619
01:29:20,680 --> 01:29:24,280
Speaker 1: in certain places. But I mean, it's again, it's just

1620
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:28,040
Speaker 1: like it's a movie for young people, and so I

1621
01:29:28,080 --> 01:29:31,439
Speaker 1: think it can be almost dangerous to like show a

1622
01:29:31,680 --> 01:29:34,760
Speaker 1: young female character being completely off the rails if there's

1623
01:29:34,760 --> 01:29:37,200
Speaker 1: not the real estate in that movie to address it.

1624
01:29:37,600 --> 01:29:40,200
Speaker 1: So I don't know, I thought, I thought that the

1625
01:29:40,280 --> 01:29:45,920
Speaker 1: women we see are great. Yeah, well, Matt, thank you

1626
01:29:46,040 --> 01:29:49,679
Speaker 1: so thank you so much for guys for having brilliant

1627
01:29:50,439 --> 01:29:54,200
Speaker 1: You know, we lifted the band for good reason, but

1628
01:29:54,280 --> 01:30:03,040
Speaker 1: it's back on. But Aristotle still shout out to Aristotle,

1629
01:30:03,120 --> 01:30:06,280
Speaker 1: shout out. What would you like to plug? Where can

1630
01:30:06,320 --> 01:30:09,200
Speaker 1: people find you online? You guys can follow me at

1631
01:30:09,240 --> 01:30:12,800
Speaker 1: Matt Rogers though it's Matt Rogers th h O. Or

1632
01:30:12,880 --> 01:30:17,519
Speaker 1: you can listen or and in addition to that, you

1633
01:30:17,600 --> 01:30:20,840
Speaker 1: can listen to my podcast Last Culture Asta with Bowen

1634
01:30:20,920 --> 01:30:26,720
Speaker 1: Yang where we discuss pop culture and wow, I've heard

1635
01:30:26,720 --> 01:30:30,240
Speaker 1: of it, talk about it. It's one of my favorites.

1636
01:30:30,560 --> 01:30:35,400
Speaker 1: Thank you. You can follow us at pectel cast on

1637
01:30:35,560 --> 01:30:38,639
Speaker 1: the platforms, all the platforms. You can join our Patreon

1638
01:30:38,760 --> 01:30:41,519
Speaker 1: five bucks a month to extra episodes a month. Kind

1639
01:30:41,560 --> 01:30:43,640
Speaker 1: of incredible. You're gonna want to be a matron of

1640
01:30:43,680 --> 01:30:48,120
Speaker 1: our matriarch, going to want to join the matriarchy? Uh?

1641
01:30:48,160 --> 01:30:51,120
Speaker 1: And then yeah, our merchanes on t public and you

1642
01:30:51,160 --> 01:30:56,120
Speaker 1: know review us on the tunes. Oh yeah, I love

1643
01:30:56,160 --> 01:31:00,680
Speaker 1: our reviews and they're just like, like, I get it,

1644
01:31:00,720 --> 01:31:03,920
Speaker 1: I'm stupid. It always makes me feel so bad. Oh,

1645
01:31:04,520 --> 01:31:07,600
Speaker 1: it's cutting reading. I just on the way here. I

1646
01:31:07,640 --> 01:31:09,759
Speaker 1: read a bunch. I was a guest on another podcast

1647
01:31:09,800 --> 01:31:11,200
Speaker 1: and I read the reviews and it was like, oh

1648
01:31:11,240 --> 01:31:14,400
Speaker 1: my god, people hate me so much. Caitlin has great

1649
01:31:14,400 --> 01:31:16,840
Speaker 1: self control with that kind of stuff. I have no

1650
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:19,599
Speaker 1: self control. I read everything and I feel I'm addicted

1651
01:31:19,640 --> 01:31:23,160
Speaker 1: to feeling horrible. We should all be more like setting

1652
01:31:23,200 --> 01:31:28,439
Speaker 1: a great example. Look, I teach classes on how to

1653
01:31:28,479 --> 01:31:31,800
Speaker 1: be me. Yeah, thank you again so much for being here, Matt,

1654
01:31:31,920 --> 01:31:36,240
Speaker 1: and thank thanks for listening. And we'll be here next week. Bye.