Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine, Hey Vesties. Today on the bright Side, we're
Speaker 1: sitting down with trailblazing chef rest for tour and cookbook
Speaker 1: author Ozma Khan.
Speaker 2: You write your old story, you dictate what you want
Speaker 2: to do with your life. You are not born to
Speaker 2: crawl through life. You were born to fly free.
Speaker 1: See Ozma's the visionary behind London's one and only Indian
Speaker 1: restaurant with an all female team. The daughter of royal
Speaker 1: parents in Calcutta, India, Ozma's had a fire in her
Speaker 1: belly since the day she was born. But here's the twist.
Speaker 1: She didn't learn how to cook until much later in life.
Speaker 1: Now she's igniting a revolution in the culinary world, one
Speaker 1: that places women front and center in professional kitchens, and
Speaker 1: today she's sharing her recipe for change with us. It's Thursday,
Speaker 1: August twenty second. I'm Simone Boyce.
Speaker 3: I'm Danielle Robe and this is the bright Side from
Speaker 3: Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to
Speaker 3: share women's stories, to laugh, learn and brighten your day. Simone,
Speaker 3: on a scale of one to ten, where your cooking
Speaker 3: skills at?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be too overconfident here. I feel
Speaker 1: like a seven. Maybe seven, that's pretty good, seven eight
Speaker 1: on some days, catch me on the holidays, maybe I'm
Speaker 1: an eight.
Speaker 2: How about you?
Speaker 3: So wait, if we're talking like one to Ozma conn
Speaker 3: or Jada laurentis you're a seven.
Speaker 1: I mean you didn't say that.
Speaker 3: That's thinking ten is professional executive chef.
Speaker 1: No, okay, So if you're comparing me to a professional chef,
Speaker 1: maybe I'll say I'm a six. But I think I'm
Speaker 1: a pretty good home chef, home cook. I'll say that
Speaker 1: that's awesome. How about you.
Speaker 3: I'm sort of at a one. I rate myself a
Speaker 3: one because I stop burning toast. But I make breakfast,
Speaker 3: I make eggs. I can make great protein pancakes and
Speaker 3: sometimes a panini or a sandwich. But that's really as
Speaker 3: far as it goes for me.
Speaker 1: Can you boil an egg?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: I learned how to boil an egg. But that's funny
Speaker 3: that you ask, because today's guest couldn't even boil an
Speaker 3: egg when she was in her twenties, and now she's
Speaker 3: one of the brightest stars in London's culinary scene. Ozma
Speaker 3: Kahn is an award winning chef, best selling cookbook author
Speaker 3: and the first British chef to be featured in Netflix's
Speaker 3: show Chef's Table. She's the founder of one of the
Speaker 3: city's top rated restaurants, Darjeeling Express. It's where she serves
Speaker 3: up delicious Indian food.
Speaker 1: I mean that is so cool, not just the fact
Speaker 1: that it's run by an all female staff, but the
Speaker 1: ages of the women here. It's just such an underrepresented
Speaker 1: portion of this industry and Ozma's journey is incredible. She
Speaker 1: was born to Indian royalty in Kolkatta, where she faced
Speaker 1: the harsh reality of being a second daughter, a role
Speaker 1: that's often seen as a burden in Indian society. And
Speaker 1: these women who are second daughters, they're often completely forgotten
Speaker 1: by their loved ones and by the culture at large.
Speaker 1: She did not let that stigma define her. In fact,
Speaker 1: she actively rejected it and reclaimed it because she went
Speaker 1: on to become the very first woman in her family
Speaker 1: to attend college. Then, when she left India for Cambridge
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety one to live with her husband, she
Speaker 1: didn't know how to cook. I mean, as we mentioned,
Speaker 1: she literally couldn't even boil an egg. But the aromas,
Speaker 1: the spices and comforts of India kept drawing her back.
Speaker 1: She made the kitchen her classroom and learned to master
Speaker 1: the dishes of her childhood. Then, with her newfound culinary skills,
Speaker 1: she said, she became quote the Queen of the kitchen,
Speaker 1: all while getting her PhD in Constitutional law from King's
Speaker 1: College in London, growing her family and creating this beautiful,
Speaker 1: thriving community in the UK.
Speaker 3: You Know, something I love about her story is that
Speaker 3: she started her restaurant with community at the center. She
Speaker 3: started hosting these dinner parties and she was doing them
Speaker 3: behind her husband's back, which is so funny. And these
Speaker 3: supper clubs eventually became her restaurant, The Darjeeling Express, and
Speaker 3: the women that she invited to her home, nanny's and
Speaker 3: housewives that she met at her kids' school who were
Speaker 3: also immigrants, became the chefs at the restaurant. You know,
Speaker 3: in today's world, we talk a lot about women supporting
Speaker 3: women and its almost colloquialism now, but what does it
Speaker 3: really mean.
Speaker 1: Ozma Khn lives it. It's so inspiring. And now she's
Speaker 1: got a new cookbook that's slated to come out next
Speaker 1: year and it's meant to be a masterclass on building flavor.
Speaker 1: But all right, enough from us, let's bring her in.
Speaker 1: Ozma Khn, welcome to the bright side.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 3: You are named one of the coolest people in food
Speaker 3: and Wine by Business Insider in twenty nineteen, and just
Speaker 3: this past year, your career as a restaurant tour landed
Speaker 3: you on Time Magazine's one hundred most Influential People. So
Speaker 3: I cannot believe that you did not learn to cook
Speaker 3: until adulthood. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I just love to eat. Every family needs someone like me.
Speaker 2: I love to eat. And I never imagined that I
Speaker 2: would leave India, that I would live in Cambridge and
Speaker 2: have to cook for myself. I actually thought I would
Speaker 2: end up being a princess and you know, marry some
Speaker 2: prince and he would take care of me and cook
Speaker 2: for me. I'm being flippant, but I actually just didn't
Speaker 2: think that I would reach a situation where I would
Speaker 2: be on my own and I would have to cook.
Speaker 2: And my kismuth was different. And I left Calcutta to
Speaker 2: join my academic husband. Then I ended up in Cambridge
Speaker 2: not knowing how to cook. It was such a huge move.
Speaker 2: It was now prouting. The only person I knew was
Speaker 2: my husband, and that too. I just found met him
Speaker 2: effectively before I got married. I had an arranged marriage,
Speaker 2: which is different from a forced marriage. Okay, arrange marriage
Speaker 2: is like go on speed dating, but your entire family
Speaker 2: is involved this thing. You know. There's how in Indian
Speaker 2: arranged marriages work. And I think a lot of people
Speaker 2: today don't understand what it was thirty five years ago.
Speaker 2: You couldn't call home. It was very expensive to make
Speaker 2: even a short call. Traveling was expensive. You didn't see
Speaker 2: the face of your parents, of your siblings. You didn't
Speaker 2: hear voices. I wrote letters to my father and he
Speaker 2: wrote to me. Felt like I had been banished. I
Speaker 2: felt it was almost like a berievement. See today, if
Speaker 2: you miss your family, you can even skype your dog
Speaker 2: in Delhi today. But I couldn't talk to anyone. It
Speaker 2: was a real tough, isolating, difficult time.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about your upbringing a little bit
Speaker 1: more Asthma, because I feel like it's so important to
Speaker 1: connect the darts between where you came from and the
Speaker 1: environment that you're creating for other women and food today.
Speaker 1: I mean, your cried when you were born. How would
Speaker 1: you describe what it's like growing up as a privileged
Speaker 1: woman in a patriarchal agrarian society.
Speaker 2: Well, the interesting thing is, I think that my mother
Speaker 2: was overwhelmed. She felt she'd let down her mother. She
Speaker 2: was one of five daughters. I know she cried when
Speaker 2: I was born, but after that my mother really loved me,
Speaker 2: but the extended family was not so nice. It also
Speaker 2: did not help that I was, apart from being the
Speaker 2: second daughter, I was dark skinned. I was a fat
Speaker 2: little girl. People would constantly tell me I was ugly
Speaker 2: and fat and dark, that nobody would marry me from
Speaker 2: the clan, which turned out to be true. But it
Speaker 2: was tough because I wasn't even attractive as far as
Speaker 2: the family was concerned. There was no bonus in having
Speaker 2: someone like me around. It really hit home when I
Speaker 2: was writing my last book and I went through the
Speaker 2: entire family archives looking for a picture of me and
Speaker 2: my mother. Because the book was in my mother's name,
Speaker 2: I had to use a photograph of my mother pregnant
Speaker 2: with me. Because no one ever felt that photograph needed
Speaker 2: to be taken of me and my mother. It didn't exist.
Speaker 2: And it is just these little things when it's so
Speaker 2: wrong that a lot of families extended families, grandparents, uncles,
Speaker 2: and aunts don't. They just are not kind and they
Speaker 2: don't understand that they leave scars so deep. For me,
Speaker 2: those cars is where the fire came from. I wanted
Speaker 2: to set the whole world alight with those cars that
Speaker 2: I carry today. They never went so it was complicated.
Speaker 2: My parents loved me a lot. My siblings are really
Speaker 2: close to me. My sister who everybody adored because she
Speaker 2: was so beautiful. She was this beautiful princess with long hair.
Speaker 2: But the game changer was every time people were being
Speaker 2: cruel to me, she would hold my hand and tell me,
Speaker 2: you are the warrior princess. You the world would shake
Speaker 2: when they hear your name. The fact that everybody's favorite
Speaker 2: thought I was beautiful, that I was powerful, that I
Speaker 2: would become something changed my life. And I was so young.
Speaker 2: I realized then solidarity of a woman behind another woman,
Speaker 2: a girl telling another girl, go and do it. You're beautiful,
Speaker 2: You're going to be powerful, You're going to be strong.
Speaker 2: It just made me realize. It changed everything for me,
Speaker 2: and I'm so grateful for my sister.
Speaker 1: Stay with us, everyone, We're taking a quick break and
Speaker 1: then we'll be right back with the Asthma Khan, and
Speaker 1: we're back talking food and community with Ozma Khan. The
Speaker 1: pain and hurt from your childhood set you want a
Speaker 1: path to becoming a change maker in the culinary world.
Speaker 1: I mean, like you said, those scars put a fire
Speaker 1: in your bones. Your restaurant our Jealing Express, has gotten
Speaker 1: high praise from food critics and earned you a spot
Speaker 1: on chef's table. And your kitchen is run by an
Speaker 1: all women team of housewives who have been with you
Speaker 1: since the supper club you created in your own home.
Speaker 1: But I actually heard you say that this was not deliberate,
Speaker 1: which was surprising to me. How did this team of
Speaker 1: women come together?
Speaker 2: I mean, it's very easy for me to now create
Speaker 2: this narrative that oh I wanted it. I just wanted
Speaker 2: women who could cook like me. Intuitively, instinctively, we are
Speaker 2: a deeply patriarchal society. The men who are now cooking
Speaker 2: on stage in Indian restaurant scene, everyone sees is identical.
Speaker 2: They learned as a professional cook in culinary school and
Speaker 2: they were trained in five star hotels in India. They
Speaker 2: never learned with their mothers and grandmothers. Why would the
Speaker 2: boys be in the kitchen the boys would sit on
Speaker 2: the table and be served with the men. Women ate
Speaker 2: last girls. Eight least we served the boys. They never
Speaker 2: were there in the kitchen. You didn't have boys hanging
Speaker 2: around and helping. I cooked with my heart and I
Speaker 2: weigh with my eyes and my hands. This is why
Speaker 2: I had to have women helping me, who did this instinctively.
Speaker 2: And when you look into the open kitchen, there are
Speaker 2: nine women cooking. The average age of the women cooking
Speaker 2: is fifty. And when I wanted to open a restaurant
Speaker 2: with my team who had been working with me in
Speaker 2: supper clubs, it was all the women and all the
Speaker 2: men told me, oh, no, you need professionals. Why is
Speaker 2: it that life experience doesn't mean that I'm professional?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: I also am not a chef. I never called myself
Speaker 2: a chef. If I want to call myself something fancy,
Speaker 2: I can call myself a doctor. I have a PhD
Speaker 2: in British constitutional law. Chef is a vocational qualification. None
Speaker 2: of us have that. But we know how to cook.
Speaker 2: And yet everyone told me your restaurant's going to fail.
Speaker 2: You cannot open a restaurant just with women who've never
Speaker 2: worked professionally. Wow. Look at me. Now, I'd done pretty good.
Speaker 2: So it's just at that time everybody was so negative.
Speaker 2: And I understand why, because there wasn't anyone like me around.
Speaker 2: They felt I was not going to be successful. I
Speaker 2: was absolutely sure I would be successful. I believed to
Speaker 2: the women, and the women believed in me. Such a
Speaker 2: powerful collective of women, we couldn't fail.
Speaker 3: I also can't help but think about how that mirrors
Speaker 3: your experience with your sister right, Like you really experienced
Speaker 3: sisterhood and believed in it, and so you brought it
Speaker 3: to the forefront. My question for you is, these women
Speaker 3: in their fifties and sixties who are the backbone of
Speaker 3: your restaurant, what lessons do you think that other chefs
Speaker 3: and other kitchens could learn from them.
Speaker 2: Patience that's the most important thing. You should be cooking
Speaker 2: to heal, not to impress, and give every ingredient, every
Speaker 2: spice the time it needs to shine. We have a
Speaker 2: very small menu, All the spices are lid. I really
Speaker 2: believe in flavor. In fact, that's what my new book
Speaker 2: I've just written is on, is just bringing in every
Speaker 2: ingredient so that every ingredient shines. That is our food,
Speaker 2: Our food is not a meat and too vedge or
Speaker 2: a whole bowl of something. Every bite tastes the same.
Speaker 2: There's a huge variation in our food.
Speaker 3: One of the things that I've heard you talk about
Speaker 3: in in terms of your home and learnings is from
Speaker 3: your dad on chef's table. You talk about how he
Speaker 3: imprinted this concept of social responsibility for you because you
Speaker 3: had more than most people did, and he said it
Speaker 3: was your job to make sure to give back and
Speaker 3: uplift other people. And so when I think about your kitchen,
Speaker 3: I'm wondering what choices you've made that ensure your staff
Speaker 3: meet both their family and their professional obligations.
Speaker 2: The double shift, which is the backbone of all restaurants,
Speaker 2: is almost created to exclude women and also exclude empathetic
Speaker 2: men in this country. In England, when you go into work,
Speaker 2: it's dock. You leave at six thirty seven. Often you
Speaker 2: know over the minter bances dock. You are in an
Speaker 2: airless space with artificial lighting. Because most restaurant kitchens are
Speaker 2: in the basement and you are there till midnight. You
Speaker 2: go back. You don't have social life. We allow women
Speaker 2: to have two ships. They pick. They can come in
Speaker 2: the morning and they leave at two thirty because they've
Speaker 2: got to pick up the children at three thirty. You
Speaker 2: come in for the first shift, or you come in
Speaker 2: for the second shift. It come starts at five. There's
Speaker 2: nothing happening I can guarantee to you. In a kitchen
Speaker 2: between lunch and dinner service, often the menu is separate.
Speaker 2: It's not brain surgery where the surgeon cannot leave for
Speaker 2: a second. Yeah, it is boiling potatoes. You are prepping,
Speaker 2: we're cutting onions. You know, we're getting things ready for
Speaker 2: dinner service. This is a culture created by men for men,
Speaker 2: and this is why it excludes people who have families.
Speaker 2: What we lose are unbelievable women.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we lose real talent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a brain drain. We lose our future leaders.
Speaker 2: And if some of us don't speak up now. And
Speaker 2: this is why I am so grateful like an opportunity
Speaker 2: to speak to you, because hopefully in my accented voice,
Speaker 2: people listen to my story and understand that we need
Speaker 2: to change things. Not just for ourselves. I want to
Speaker 2: change things for that generation of girls who are not
Speaker 2: yet born.
Speaker 3: Have you seen other kitchens adopt your model because it's
Speaker 3: been so successful in London.
Speaker 2: Not yet, but I live in Hope. I hope that
Speaker 2: people are brave. There are more women who are opening restaurants,
Speaker 2: but they don't have this model. And I hope that
Speaker 2: people are brave because of course everybody wants to be successful.
Speaker 2: We are extremely successful. I'm saying this because not out
Speaker 2: of arrogance. I want people to know you can have
Speaker 2: a business where the bottom line is not money, but
Speaker 2: the bottom line is uplifting women. The bottom line is
Speaker 2: about community, about justice, about food justice, and about the
Speaker 2: politics of food. You can have all of these as
Speaker 2: important basis on which you set up your business. It
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that you will fail. You will still succeed.
Speaker 2: There's overwhelming pressure to conform. But I am determined to
Speaker 2: try and have this conversation because I am sowing a harvest.
Speaker 2: I will not reap. I will probably not be alive
Speaker 2: to see that time when women walk into kitchens and
Speaker 2: they own it that they're not afraid of going into
Speaker 2: the walk in fridge, they're not afraid of being touched
Speaker 2: against their consent. I will not live. But every day
Speaker 2: I am trying my best to clear the pathways for
Speaker 2: those young women, even those who are not born yet
Speaker 2: I want them to know you are free and you
Speaker 2: should do this and do not allow others to shut
Speaker 2: that flame off inside you. I really want women to
Speaker 2: be passionate, and it is all our duty to speak
Speaker 2: up to encourage others.
Speaker 1: It's very important, so clear that that flame that was
Speaker 1: placed inside of you asthma has evolved into a real
Speaker 1: soft spot for other second daughters. You have the Second
Speaker 1: Daughter's Fund to support forgotten little girls in India, and
Speaker 1: you are just imbuing the women in your kitchens with
Speaker 1: such dignity and pride. You plucked them out of their
Speaker 1: domestic roles where they were nannies, they were care workers,
Speaker 1: they were housewives, and you said, no, I believe in you.
Speaker 1: You can do this. And I want to know how
Speaker 1: are these women and their communities changed because of you,
Speaker 1: because of all this work that you're doing.
Speaker 2: When I was on a call, my first call about
Speaker 2: being on Chef's table, the first thing I said is
Speaker 2: I need to show my team, and there was silence.
Speaker 2: I thought I'd got dropped out of the call. They said, no, oh,
Speaker 2: the chef in chef's table. Let us to show that team.
Speaker 2: This is the big difference. I have to show that team,
Speaker 2: because I cannot live, I cannot breathe, I cannot be
Speaker 2: free if I know that I've taken their labor, their love,
Speaker 2: their patients, their skills and claimed it to be my success.
Speaker 2: Too many founders, too many leaders, do this. I stand
Speaker 2: on the shoulders of giants, my incredible team. How could
Speaker 2: I not show them? And in chef's table. For those
Speaker 2: who've seen it, you will remember that scene where the
Speaker 2: women are against the blue wall. Their name is there,
Speaker 2: but the name of the village. I needed that to go.
Speaker 2: It made a huge impact. When they went back, the
Speaker 2: whole village turned up in the station to receive them
Speaker 2: with drums. These were the girls whose birds were lamented,
Speaker 2: where the mothers were made to feel humilated because a
Speaker 2: girl was born in that house. These girls went back
Speaker 2: as heroes. And this is just it stills. I get
Speaker 2: emotional because watching this happen in my lifetime, that we
Speaker 2: are getting the honor for what we are. Because everybody
Speaker 2: wants our rotie. If it's free, they will pay a
Speaker 2: man to cook, but we must do it for free.
Speaker 2: I want to cook for free. I also want to
Speaker 2: be paid. I also want this to be a profession.
Speaker 2: I want that to be dignity, and no one should
Speaker 2: shut the door on your face saying you're a woman,
Speaker 2: you're older. This is not the law of the jungle. Yes,
Speaker 2: I may not be able to chase a deer and
Speaker 2: catch it, but I can cook, so I should be
Speaker 2: given an opportunity.
Speaker 3: We're taking a quick break, but stay with us because
Speaker 3: we'll be right back with chef, restaurant tour and cookbook
Speaker 3: author Ozma Khan. And we're back with Ozma Khan.
Speaker 2: Asthma.
Speaker 3: You mentioned the politics of food earlier, and people see
Speaker 3: food as this way of bringing people together. Often hear
Speaker 3: that phrase let's break bread. But you say that food
Speaker 3: and culture has been separated, that people don't actually want
Speaker 3: to see the people behind the food.
Speaker 2: Sometimes. Yes, so we are in a situation where food
Speaker 2: and culture is separated. You have a table full of food,
Speaker 2: my food, food off my heritage. The table is groaning
Speaker 2: with food, but there isn't a seat on that table
Speaker 2: for me. I will not allow you to eat my food,
Speaker 2: to listen to my music, to wear my fabric if
Speaker 2: you do not accept me. You build walls to keep
Speaker 2: the Mexicans out, but you want to have tacos. Recently,
Speaker 2: we've had issues with, you know, riots on the streets
Speaker 2: in London. Everybody says, oh, we all love Indian food, chicken, tikamasala,
Speaker 2: but then they don't accept us. And this is the
Speaker 2: thing that the easiest thing to take of an immigrant
Speaker 2: community is their food. But the food is my dna,
Speaker 2: it is my breath, it is my heartbeat. You take
Speaker 2: away my food and you dismiss my people. This is unacceptable.
Speaker 2: And there's so much bullying that happens in schools where
Speaker 2: children of different ethnicity in their pack lunch, they may
Speaker 2: take rice, they may take food that for other children
Speaker 2: may smell unusual. And then there's oh, you smell your
Speaker 2: food smells. When a very young child is told their
Speaker 2: food smells, it is as if they are smelling. It's
Speaker 2: the other ing of people when they're very young using food,
Speaker 2: and then later on the taking away of our food.
Speaker 2: And I want everybody to cook my food. You can
Speaker 2: be from Mars. Please cook my food. But I want
Speaker 2: you to understand the stories of my women. I want
Speaker 2: you to understand the ingredients that went in. I want
Speaker 2: you to understand the beat with which we crush the spices.
Speaker 2: Please listen to our stories, talk to us. Don't dismiss
Speaker 2: us and take away our food. It's very important. And
Speaker 2: the problem is that for too long this has been happening.
Speaker 2: For too long, it's been happening. We need to stop
Speaker 2: that because with that lack of respect for our culture,
Speaker 2: the food just goes and we lose a very important
Speaker 2: part of our identity.
Speaker 3: There's room at the table for my food, but not
Speaker 3: for me. Is in analogy I think for so many
Speaker 3: marginalized groups. Yes, you know you started your business later
Speaker 3: in life, and you started it after starting your family,
Speaker 3: after going through years of school. You mentioned you're a doctorate.
Speaker 3: In what ways do you think that starting your career
Speaker 3: as a restaurant tour was actually beneficial to you?
Speaker 2: I think it is the most powerful decade of my
Speaker 2: life when I was in my forties. That's not how
Speaker 2: society sees it. Everybody worships the youth and the creative
Speaker 2: and the young in many cultures, and this is in
Speaker 2: the West and the East. The moment you are in
Speaker 2: your life late forties, you are not seen as dynamic,
Speaker 2: not creative. When I went to the bank, I just
Speaker 2: want to open a t shop downstairs near my house.
Speaker 2: They laughed at me. And they said, oh, what a
Speaker 2: lovely hobby. Call us to your house, missus Kahan. I
Speaker 2: cried all the way home. I was tongue tied. I
Speaker 2: could not say a name of a single woman who
Speaker 2: started in her forties, who did something she had not
Speaker 2: done before, who was passionate, who was creative, who is dynamic,
Speaker 2: but didn't have a piece of paper a certificate, and
Speaker 2: she was in her forties. I began at forty five.
Speaker 2: In every sport where there's baseball, a cricket, we have
Speaker 2: a second innings. I am in my second innings. I
Speaker 2: will hit every ball out of the park. My team
Speaker 2: will win. I will not get a chance to bat again.
Speaker 2: You can't defeat me. You cannot defeat powerful women in
Speaker 2: their forties, the collective of women who have all on
Speaker 2: so many times, we have scarred, we are bruised. All
Speaker 2: of you only know me when I became successful. You
Speaker 2: were not there when I was ridiculed and laughed at,
Speaker 2: when the doors were slammed on my face from the ashes.
Speaker 2: I have risen to be this person. Who is that
Speaker 2: bird we have my father's to always say, Ausma, be
Speaker 2: that bird who sings before dawn in the darkness tell
Speaker 2: everybody light is going to come. Be so powerful and
Speaker 2: so confident that you always know dawn will follow night.
Speaker 2: The night is never endless. And I think all of
Speaker 2: us should be that we should tell the stories of
Speaker 2: hope and tell women that when everybody pushes you, boxes
Speaker 2: you in one corner and tells you that you are
Speaker 2: past it, tell them your light is coming, your night
Speaker 2: is over. And I feel such a sense of joy.
Speaker 2: I know every day I live one day less. I
Speaker 2: want to be that person who, through my hope, gives
Speaker 2: others hope.
Speaker 1: I need you in my ear every morning. I just
Speaker 1: need you to give me a daily pep talk so
Speaker 1: that I can get out of bed and feel confident,
Speaker 1: because when I as I'm listening to you speak, it's
Speaker 1: like this incredibly moving motivational material that just is so energizing.
Speaker 1: You have been the light for those women who are
Speaker 1: in your kitchen. And I want to talk about some
Speaker 1: specific ways that you've recommended that other chefs in the
Speaker 1: industry and restaurateurs go about making change. And you say
Speaker 1: that this is something that we can all do. Take
Speaker 1: a chance on someone even if they aren't fully qualified.
Speaker 1: Why why is that so important?
Speaker 2: You can teach people's skills. You cannot teach attitude. You
Speaker 2: cannot teach them resilience. That doesn't happen. So if they
Speaker 2: are not fully qualified and they don't have all the skills,
Speaker 2: you can teach them, you can guide them, you can
Speaker 2: hup them. I don't know how to cook. I'm pretty
Speaker 2: decent cook now. It took a bit a while, but
Speaker 2: I goot that, so I understand. I love skills. But
Speaker 2: the passion and the love for food, the desire to
Speaker 2: understand my culinary heritage, my respect for women who cooked.
Speaker 2: This cannot be taught. You need to feel it.
Speaker 1: When I think about the kinds of conversations that we
Speaker 1: want to have on our show, The bright Side, you
Speaker 1: are like straight up the middle because you are knocking
Speaker 1: your second act out of the park. And that's something
Speaker 1: that we talk about a lot, is transformation, reinvention. And
Speaker 1: I think one of the reasons why we feel it's
Speaker 1: important to talk about that is because our society, our
Speaker 1: world is obsessed with the expiration dates for women. Society
Speaker 1: loves to tell us what we can and can't do
Speaker 1: after a certain age. So what would you say to
Speaker 1: anyone listening who feels it might be too late for them.
Speaker 2: Do not allow anyone to label you, to put a
Speaker 2: badge on you, to put you into a box. I
Speaker 2: tell everybody there's no box big enough. I will be
Speaker 2: who I want to be. I am the captain of
Speaker 2: my ship. You don't get on my ship and tell
Speaker 2: me where to go. You don't do that. I think
Speaker 2: this is so important. We are allowed, we are pushed
Speaker 2: to one side. We allow people to dictate to us.
Speaker 2: Even well beinging friends, female friends will always kind of
Speaker 2: You're the smart one, You're the nerdy one, you're the
Speaker 2: techy one. You are none of these. You are every
Speaker 2: day you can be a new person. You write your
Speaker 2: own story. The world should not write your story. You
Speaker 2: write your story. You dictate what you want to do
Speaker 2: with your life. You are not born to crawl through life.
Speaker 2: You were born to fly free. If everybody else tells
Speaker 2: you where to go, this is not your destiny. We
Speaker 2: all have a beautiful story, and I think that you
Speaker 2: embrace that. And there's a little voice inside us. Let's
Speaker 2: shut down everybody, shut down all that noise and listen
Speaker 2: to that voice that is telling you who you really are.
Speaker 3: Ozma, thank you so much. This has been truly one
Speaker 3: of my favorite conversations we've had so far.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you so much, Ozma. Ozma Kahn is
Speaker 1: the chef and owner of the Darjeeling Express in London
Speaker 1: and an author of multiple esteemed cookbooks.
Speaker 3: That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're popping off with
Speaker 3: the hosts of the Go Touch Grass podcast, Millie Tamaraz
Speaker 3: and Elise Morales. Listen and follow the bright Side on
Speaker 3: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: I'm Simone Voice. You can find me at simone Voice
Speaker 1: on Instagram and.
Speaker 3: Tiktok'm Danielle Robe on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 2: That's r O b A. Y.
Speaker 1: See you tomorrow, folks. Keep looking on the bright side.