1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I don't like from 2 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: the stuff. Would never told you production of I Heart Radio. 3 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: So Samantha, well, you recently did an episode I'm Blogging, 4 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: and you said you used to have a blog on 5 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: the side. I've never heard of Zenga. Yes, yes, yes, 6 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: and you said it was unfortunately or maybe fortunately defunct, 7 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: but you didn't say what was on there other than 8 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: vague prompts. As it was very angsty, it might not 9 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: have been politically correct. Well, I don't really know, because 10 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: there's really no telling what had written, but I do 11 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: remember some sad poems mh and thoughts. And then also 12 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: it was really really hard on into the Christian world, 13 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: so I'm sure there was a lot of religiou us 14 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: ideas and thought processes, but that's all I can remember. 15 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:08,479 Speaker 1: Did you engage with the audience at all? Commenters? Of course, 16 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 1: so I was also very picky in general and cautious 17 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: about who knew what sight I had. I did have 18 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: some lookie lose cooking through and found me I did. 19 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: That happened a couple of times. I remember that, and 20 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: maybe hannicking like oh no, because all I had was 21 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: a user name, which makes no sense because it's just 22 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: like made up from my entire full name, so just 23 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: a bunch of letters put together essentially, and then yeah, 24 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 1: that's it. That's all I had there. And it was 25 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: public though, but if someone commented on it, typically they 26 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: were all very nice comments. I would respond, M, there's 27 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: a couple of I had conversations, but again, there were 28 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: a majority of the friends that I would see on 29 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: a dating basis, and we as a group all had 30 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: Sanga community. Oh did you ever regular update schedule or 31 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: was it just whenever for know? Yeah, and whenever I 32 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: don't like it? Mm hmmmm. Well, I believe I've only 33 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: posted to a blog once, and it was a blog 34 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: that was run by an organization I was a part 35 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: of when I was in college called i SEC, which 36 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: is kind of like an international travel blog, and I 37 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: published once like a guest post about when I had 38 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,239 Speaker 1: gone to China, and it was on a base on Tumbler. 39 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: I believe I did have to design a website and 40 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 1: I can't remember where I hosted that, but that was 41 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: also like a final project I had to do with 42 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: one of my college classes. I will say we talked 43 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: about this in our blog episode where the similarities between 44 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: fan fiction and blogging. And I did post fan fiction, 45 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: and I did have a regular update schedule, and I 46 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: would if people reviewed, I would respond to the reviews 47 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 1: because I was so flattered. I was so terrified that 48 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: they were all going to being and they were almost 49 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: always nice, and I would respond. But it's a very 50 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: stressful experience, really is I feel that way about social 51 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 1: media today. I'm like, I see a lot of alerts like, 52 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: oh my god, what have I done? Yep, Yeah, I 53 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: am the exact same way, but it's almost always nice. 54 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: But you get those nerves. Um yeah, every time, for sure, 55 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: for sure. But since we did recently do kind of 56 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: an updated episode on a look at women and blogging, 57 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 1: we wanted to bring back this classic on the mommy 58 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: blog or mom blog in particular, So please enjoy Welcome 59 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: to Stuff Mom Never Told You from how Stuff Works 60 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen 61 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline and Caroline. Today we have a special 62 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: podcast episode because I got to chat with Emily Matcher, 63 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: who is the author of the upcoming book Homeward Bound 64 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: The New Cult of Domesticity, and it is coming out. 65 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: It's slated to come out in May, so right around 66 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: the corner. But you can check out her blogging over 67 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: at New New domesticity dot com. And the reason why 68 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 1: we wanted to talk to match her about new domesticity 69 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: is because it ties into a lot of things that 70 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: we talked about on the podcast and I feel like 71 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: a lot of interests that podcast listeners have. Yeah, she's 72 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: match is a really interesting woman. This whole idea of 73 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: new domesticity being something that a lot of women are 74 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 1: being attracted to. And there's this very interesting debate that 75 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 1: that we've kind of been keeping tabs on about is 76 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: this something that helps women or is this somehow sending 77 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: women back to the stone age and oppressing them. So 78 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: there's a lot of arguments on both sides. Yeah, and um, 79 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,919 Speaker 1: in our chat with Emily Matcher, she'll give us more 80 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: details about what new domesticity is, but just for a 81 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: general idea we're talking of out the revival of things 82 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 1: like knitting and handcrafts. Etsy is a great online source 83 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: just for a glimpse of new domesticity and even more intensive, 84 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: time intensive things like backyard chicken keeping, canning, preserving. Uh, 85 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: really a return to I guess lost domestic arts that 86 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: were replaced by more convenient appliances or techniques or just 87 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: TV dinners, TV dinners, things like that, and she she 88 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: does talk about how there's this return um from what 89 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: our mothers and grandmothers were doing, which is maybe relying 90 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: on those TV dinners, maybe not cooking those homemade pies 91 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: or knitting sweaters as you know, as much as our 92 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: predecessors were. Yeah, and we first noticed Emily's work over 93 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: at Salon when we were researching our episode on Pinterest 94 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 1: and she she wrote about the why I Can't stop 95 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 1: reading Mormon housewife blogs and it's a great post so 96 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: where she talks about um, Mormon mommy bloggers and sort 97 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: of the this Pinterest perfect life it seems like a 98 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: lot of them are living, and how that ties into 99 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: new domesticity and her fascination with that in comparison to 100 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: how she lives her own day to day life in 101 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 1: a much less Pinterest perfect way, which I think you know, 102 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: you and I Caroline can probably both relate to very strongly. Um. So, so, yeah, 103 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: we chatted with Emily. She is living currently in China, 104 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 1: so we had an international conversation with her, and I 105 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: guess why don't we listen to what Emily had to 106 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: say about New Domesticity, her book that's coming out. What 107 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: New Domesticity is, how men play a role in this 108 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: stuff as well, and some other things. And uh so, 109 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: why don't we kick off my interview with Emily with 110 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: the question I asked her of what got her interested 111 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: in new domesticity and if she could offer some more 112 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: insight into what exactly that is. So, ladies and gents, 113 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: please enjoy our conversation with Emily Matcher. So New Domesticity 114 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: is just the title that I'm sort of throwing at 115 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: a variety of interrelated things, um, but generally speaking, the 116 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: sort of the resurgence of interest in old fashioned domestic stuff, 117 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: you know. And this is everything from the you know, knitting, 118 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: the crafting revival. You know, we've seen knitting and Etsy 119 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: and crocheting and all this stuff is hip again, you know, um, 120 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: and the foodie movement and people being really into food 121 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: and home cooking all the way through to sort of 122 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: neo homesteading, um, you know, people raising chickens in their 123 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: backyard and uh and wanting to get back to me 124 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: six and that whole thing. And so I sort of 125 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: look at it as part of you know, one larger 126 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: phenomenon that's what I'm calling new domesticity. UM. And yeah, 127 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: I got interested in it because as UM, as a 128 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: writer who writes a lot about about food and culture, 129 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: I kept meeting people who were like really into canning 130 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: jam you know. But it wasn't just it wasn't just 131 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: you know, a hobby. It was sort of part of 132 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: a lifestyle and UM. You know, I'd meet meet you know, 133 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: women that were into attachment parenting, who homeschooled their kids 134 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 1: and baked all their own bread and raised goats, and 135 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: and I began to see that this was sort of 136 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: it was a larger lifestyle movement, that these things were 137 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: sort of pieces of UM. And that's when I got 138 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: I got sort of curious about it as UM as 139 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 1: a bigger thing, you know, wondering where it came from 140 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: and what it meant. Well, you mentioned on the website 141 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,559 Speaker 1: one of the blog posts when you you'd worked out 142 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: the working title for the book, and how it UM 143 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:08,559 Speaker 1: is a nod to the Victorian era cult of domesticity, 144 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: which has, like those the four cardinal virtues of piety, purity, submission, 145 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 1: and domesticity. So I wanted to get your thoughts on 146 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 1: what might be the cardinal virtues of the cult of 147 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: New domesticity. I think the cardinal virtue UM would probably 148 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: be d I Y do it yourself UM, and MIS 149 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: takes a lot of forms. I think there's a there's 150 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: a real impetus in this movement to to do things yourself, 151 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: you know, MISS could be cooking from a scratch, or 152 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,839 Speaker 1: selling your own clothes, or growing your own veggies, you know, 153 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: all the way through homeschooling your own children. It's very 154 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: much about sort of you know, going outside the system 155 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: and UM and and doing things yourself. So I would 156 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: say that's the the cardinal virtue. Although things like UM 157 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 1: you certainly see sort of an interest in purity when 158 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: it comes to food and things like that, which which 159 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: definitely have parallels with the nineteenth century cult of domesticity, 160 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: and and generally sort of the I think the idea, 161 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 1: even if it's not spoken, UM, that by doing this 162 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 1: stuff you are a better person, a better woman, a 163 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: better mother. Uh. Well, I think it's really interesting in 164 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: reading about UM sort of what is driving a lot 165 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: of this A lot of the resurgence for these UM 166 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: you know, sort of crafts from a slower time, and uh, 167 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 1: and you talk about how it's linked a lot of 168 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:49,439 Speaker 1: times to a disfaction, dissatisfaction. Excuse me with you know, 169 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: the idea of you know, the nine to five world 170 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: sitting in a cubicle being a weekend warrior and uh 171 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: is it? Are we just looking back to, you know, 172 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: wanting a bygone era of a slower and even like 173 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,959 Speaker 1: less convenient time, even though you know, the lifestyle that 174 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: we have now is supposed to be, um, you know, 175 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 1: faster and easier and and all of that. You know, 176 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: I think there's a real nostalgia for what people perceive 177 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: as a sort of simpler and more wholesome time. And 178 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: I think a lot of that has to do with, um, 179 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: you know, we live in a super high tech society, 180 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: and you know, just on a very basic level, um, 181 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: you know, when you work at a computer all day, 182 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 1: I think we have you know, humans have a pretty 183 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: you know, natural urge. We like to do things with 184 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,079 Speaker 1: their hands, right, you know, And so I think when 185 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: you're when you're sort of separated from that, when you're 186 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 1: in an office, when you're you know, living in this 187 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: high tech world, people have a craving for for you know, 188 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: tactile connection. And so I think a lot of stuff, 189 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: like you know, crafting and cooking has to do with 190 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: people wanting to reclaim that connection, being be able to 191 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 1: work with their hands. Um. And then you know, people, 192 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: this is the We're living in a in a pretty 193 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,319 Speaker 1: anxious era for a lot of reasons, you know, the 194 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: economy and the environment and political instability and war and 195 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: all these things that make people people anxious. I think 196 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: people crave what they perceive is a more simple and 197 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: stable time. You know, this idea that oh, you know, 198 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: back in the day when you know are in our 199 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: great grandparents era, you worked on the farm and you 200 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,719 Speaker 1: made your own things, and you you know, didn't have 201 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: to go work this horrible nine job that you hate 202 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,599 Speaker 1: that you could lose any day anyway. Um. And I 203 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: think that creates a sort of powerful urge to get 204 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: back to what people perceive as the basics. Um. Well, 205 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: can you talk a little bit about the role of 206 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: the Internet and being wired and how that relates to 207 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:59,559 Speaker 1: new domesticity, because it seems like on the one hand, yet, um, 208 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 1: you know, our constant connection via the Internet and social 209 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,679 Speaker 1: media and just the fast pace that comes along with 210 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: that maybe fuel some of that anxiety that you're talking 211 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: about that makes us want to you know, slow things 212 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: down and uh feel that nostalgia. But at the same 213 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: time too, it seems like the Internet is also facilitated 214 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: all of these communities and platforms things like Etsy. Uh. 215 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: So I was just wondering what what your take on 216 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: how how the Internet Internet relates to all of this 217 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,839 Speaker 1: would be, Well, I think you you totally hit on it. 218 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: I think, um, the Internet both drives new dust domesticity, 219 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: and new domesticity is also a reaction against the Internet 220 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: culture to some degree. I definitely do not think that 221 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: new domesticity would exist at all without the Internet. I think, um, 222 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: you know, like you said, it has facilitated, um, the 223 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: revival of a lot of this stuff. You know, the 224 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: crafting movement really came out of, um, out of websites 225 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: dedicated to crafting. And now we have stuff like at 226 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: sea and um and Ravelry, which is a knitting website, UM, 227 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: and you know, Pinterest or people share crafts and ideas UM. 228 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: And then there's the whole world of blogs, you know, 229 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: and food blogs and people sharing recipes and these have 230 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: created like these real communities and I think really driven 231 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: interest and stuff like you know, do it yourself and 232 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: from scratch cooking and um and and and you know, 233 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: created these communities and created you know, a sort of 234 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: sense of of aspiration. If you look at these you know, 235 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: neo domestic blogs, they're so beautiful and you know, everything's 236 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: photographed so nicely, and you look at them, and even 237 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: if you're not at all like domestic or interested in 238 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: cooking or crafty, it's kind of hard not to look 239 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: at some of these you know, lifestyle blogs and go, oh, 240 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: you know, I want that. Um and uh and I 241 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: think yeah. On on the flip side of that, there's 242 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: just the fact of the Internet being this, you know, 243 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: seven technological invasion of your home that I think a 244 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: lot of people want to escape from when they're you know, 245 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: going back to basics. Like you know, when you're spending 246 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: your time doing something tactile like cooking or or knitting 247 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: or you know, growing veggies in your backyard, you're making 248 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: a deliberate choice to step away from Internet culture. Yeah, 249 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: do you think that? Um And this is just kind 250 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: of on a side note that because I feel like 251 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: the rise of the quote unquote mommy bloggers almost I 252 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: predated the popularity of Etsy and Ravelry and these other 253 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: like larger communities. And do you think that maybe mom 254 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: bloggers in a way sort of and having that platform, Uh, 255 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: I don't know, showed the value of housework in a 256 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: way that maybe it had been dismissed for a little 257 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: while is just you know, oh, you're just to stay 258 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: at home mom, But now you can actually see all 259 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: of these things that they're doing, this incredible food that 260 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: they're making and uh, their home designer however they're doing it. 261 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: If that makes sense, No, yeah, I think you you 262 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: totally hit it on the head. Um. I think there 263 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: has been a movement for for a while, and probably 264 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: a little bit predating the Internet. Um, you know, maybe 265 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: sort of starting in the nineties, to to reclaim you know, 266 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: old fashioned women's work, like um, like crafts. I think 267 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: there's a big crafting revival that started with sort of 268 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: the punk rock riot girl movement in the nineties, with 269 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: you know, women saying hey, like it's cool and punk 270 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: rock to do uh crocheting and make your own clothes 271 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and that sort of grew into 272 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: a whole movement to to reclaim the domestic, to reclaim 273 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: respect for roum for old fashioned women's work, which you know, 274 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: had been very denigrated over the years. If you look 275 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 1: at you know, like Bust magazine, is this you know, 276 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 1: sort of third wave feminist magazine that started um you know, 277 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: running these sort of kitchy pictures of housewives and you know, 278 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: how to cleaning articles like in the late nineties, early 279 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: two thousand's as sort of this big you know, this 280 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 1: this movement to um to sort of reclaim, reclaim women's 281 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 1: work as something of value. And I think the mom 282 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 1: blogging ended up being part a big part of that 283 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 1: because a lot of I think a lot of the 284 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: reason that women's work has been historically devalued is because 285 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: it's invisible. You don't you know, you don't know what 286 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: your neighbors dinner looks like. You don't see her folding 287 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: her laundry, you don't see any of that stuff. And 288 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 1: so I think that's one of the reasons it was 289 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 1: very hard to be a housewife was because you didn't 290 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 1: get any external validation. And especially you know, once women 291 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: started getting educations and started having experience in the workforce 292 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: and got used to the external validation of you know, 293 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: being in a workplace or getting grades in school. I 294 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: think a lot of people found it very hard to 295 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: not get that anymore. And I think mom blogs um 296 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: uh unintentionally ended up becoming this venue for people to 297 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: show off there um what they did in the home 298 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 1: and thereby gaining some some validation for it. You know, 299 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: like you might cook dinner every night and uh, you know, 300 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 1: maybe your husband and your kids say thank you, maybe 301 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: they don't. But if you photograph your dinner and you 302 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: put the recipe online, people are going to go, hey, 303 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: oh awesome, you know, great recipe, and you're going to 304 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: get You're going to get validation. And I think that's 305 00:18:52,520 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: actually this pretty like phenomenal important effective um of mom 306 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: blogs and lifestyle blogs because all of a sudden, you know, 307 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: this women's work that's been invisible for you know, since 308 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: the dawn of time, all of a sudden has this 309 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: very public platform. You know. Well, it's interesting, like there was. 310 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: It reminds me too of of a post that you 311 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 1: had on the website about um, whether or not we're 312 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 1: almost going overboard, like you know, I think you were 313 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: talking something about going on apartment therapy and wondering whether 314 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 1: or not you should like put curtains up. But then 315 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 1: you didn't even want to ask, because it's like, now 316 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: we're almost to the point where everything you know looks 317 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: so perfect online and we have these like aspirational blogs 318 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: that we look like look at and pinterest in all 319 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: of this. Um so, I wonder if are is there 320 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: a danger and especially in talking about this within the 321 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: framework of feminism, is there a danger in exalting this 322 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 1: quote unquote women's work too much to where we're back 323 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: in the same place we were where, you know, back 324 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 1: to something along the lines of the you know, the 325 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 1: Victorian cult of domesticity, where a woman's worth is found 326 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: in and what her home looks like. Well, that's exactly 327 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 1: exactly the problem. You know. On the one hand, of course, 328 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: you know, people should be validated for the work they do. 329 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 1: On the other hand, the sort of um, the all 330 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: the sharing of of domesticity online does create a sense 331 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: of competition and does there is a sense in which 332 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 1: it raises the bar on a on what it takes 333 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: to be a good um, a good housekeeper, good a 334 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: good mother, a good woman. You know, because before the internet, 335 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: like you know, the housework wasn't visible. You didn't know 336 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: what your neighbor's closet looked like. You didn't know what 337 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: your neighbor's dinner looks like. And now you can go online. 338 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: You can look at blogs. You can see, you know, 339 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: what the strangers are cooking and eating, and what their 340 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 1: kids are wearing, and the cute craft projects they did. 341 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: And you know, of course this isn't the full view 342 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: of their lives, you know, naturally, it's this completely edited, 343 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: mediated view of their life that's put on the blog 344 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 1: for public consumption. But I think people have a hard 345 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,360 Speaker 1: time reading between the lines there, you know, because blogs 346 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: are supposed to be this very authentic, you know, very 347 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: personal medium, and there becomes we get this really you know, 348 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: uncomfortable gray area where um, you know a lot of 349 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 1: bloggers are sort of semi professionals taking sort of semi 350 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: professional pictures of their semi professional cooking and decorating, and 351 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: you know, regular people go, oh, you know, now I 352 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: feel bad about myself. Why doesn't my food look like that? 353 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: Why doesn't my living room look like that? Um? And 354 00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 1: it does create a culture in which, you know, be 355 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: the whole. You know, thousands of women are deaning this 356 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: validation for being good housekeepers, which is sort of, in 357 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 1: my mind, uncomfortably close to the whole cult of domesticity. 358 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: You know, Um, people are gaining validation from having you know, 359 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 1: the cutest living rooms or the the nicest looking dinner. 360 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 1: So um. So Yeah. On the one hand, I think that, 361 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,879 Speaker 1: you know, it's great that people can be validated for 362 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: the hard work they do in the home. On the 363 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 1: other hand, I do worry that the whole culture of 364 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: lifestyle blogs, you know, raises the bar for ordinary women 365 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: who spend a lot of time looking at semi professional 366 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 1: blogs and feeling bad about themselves and feeling like their 367 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: self worth is really tied up and in how well 368 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: they keep their home. Yeah, because it also seems to 369 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 1: add another wrinkle to the whole debate that about about 370 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: whether or not women can have it all. You know, 371 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: we be because for so long it's been something that's 372 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: more just you know, looking for career success in the 373 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: workplace and yes, childcare and managing all of that. But 374 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: now there's sort of a new, um, a new aspect 375 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 1: to it as well, and I'm just wondering, like, when, 376 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 1: you know, can we have the career success in the 377 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: corner office and also have our own canned jam that 378 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,959 Speaker 1: we can bring into office parties, you know what I mean, 379 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: Like it seems like there's so there's so much now 380 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: Like it's a good thing that uh, women's work is 381 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: being validated in a lot of ways, like in terms 382 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: of the domestic sphere. But where does this square with 383 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: work outside of the home? Right right? Well? Um, you know, 384 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 1: I think one of the big problems is that you know, 385 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: in in New domesticity sort of as a movement, um, 386 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff gets sort of very moralized 387 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 1: because it's tied up with um, you know, questions of 388 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: consumerism and questions of environmentalism, and questions of what kind 389 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: of food is good and safe to eat? Right. So 390 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: you know it's easy enough when somebody is just knitting 391 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: for a hobby, but um, you know, you get it's 392 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: much more complicated than that. You get. Um, you know 393 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 1: a lot of talk about well, you know, you should 394 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: be cooking from scratch because that's the way, that's the 395 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 1: only way that it's healthy for your family. And you know, 396 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: you should be knowing your farmer and going to the 397 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: farmer's market. You should be buying organic and you should 398 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: be you know, growing your own veggies, and you know, 399 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 1: soaking your grains and doing all these things because it's 400 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 1: the right thing to do for your children's health, and 401 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: it's the right thing to do for the environment and 402 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: for your local community. And um, you know, oh you 403 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: should be you know, making your own cleaning solutions out 404 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: of vinegar because you know it's good for the environment. 405 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: And don't take lazy shortcuts because that's bad for the environment. 406 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: And oh, you know, if you go out and buy 407 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: things or higher you know, babysitters to go to the movies, 408 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: you know that sort of consumerists. I think, um, I 409 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: think there's this there's this huge sort of moralization of 410 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: the domestic realm, this idea that your domestic choices can 411 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 1: have these huge impacts on the world. Like of course 412 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: people are going to feel like they're never doing it right, 413 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: you know. Um, so I think that makes it. You know, women, 414 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: like you said, already have a hard enough time trying 415 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: to keep things together in terms of job and childcare. 416 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: And now there's also this sense that you know, well 417 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,719 Speaker 1: you can't just take a shortcut by you know, buying 418 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,400 Speaker 1: you know, pre made meals or dropping your kids off 419 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: at daycare, because that's somehow you know, immoral, wrong and 420 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: and and bad for your children, and bad for the world, 421 00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Um, and that puts a 422 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 1: uge amount of pressure on women. UM. Well, I'm also 423 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: really curious about the people that you've met through this 424 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: new domesticity research and wondering. I mean, obviously there's the 425 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: cornerstone d I y ethic and UM, you know, the 426 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:21,919 Speaker 1: embrace of going more natural and slower in a way. Uh, 427 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: but have you noticed certain hallmarks of people who are 428 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: really drawn and very invested in Um, these kinds of 429 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 1: of new domesticity, Look what they have in common with 430 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: each other? Yeah, if there are any like I don't know, 431 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: any certain types of personality traits I feel like, like, 432 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,880 Speaker 1: for instance, like people that I know who are incredibly 433 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 1: crafty are just like very organized and very creative and 434 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 1: and things like that. So I was just wondering, Uh, 435 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: if you had noticed certain I don't know, shared traits 436 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: or anything like that. Well, I'll say that there's a 437 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: huge variety of people doing this, and obviously it's not 438 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 1: all women. And I did interview um for my for 439 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 1: my blogging from my book, UM, plenty of men, and 440 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: that there are people in different socio economic groups and 441 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: and different um sort of political beliefs too. You get 442 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: a lot of you know, sort of very conservative Christian 443 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 1: women embracing d I y and natural parenting and that 444 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: whole thing, um, as well as sort of your stereotypical 445 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: crunchy liberals. But I will say, um, I think I 446 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: think one of the thing is that a lot, though 447 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 1: not all of um of women that are very into 448 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: new domesticity have in common is that they are very smart, 449 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 1: generally educated, and really creative, but for one reason or 450 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 1: the other, have not connected with a career. And this 451 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: is this doesn't mean they don't have one, you know, 452 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: but they might not find it totally satisfying, or it 453 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: might be part time, or they might have you know, 454 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: left in after their children were born. UM. And I think, 455 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: you know, being creative and um and educated and engaged, 456 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: they find you know, engaging a new domesticity a way 457 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: of um, you know, a way of using their energies 458 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 1: and and using their creativity um in the absence of 459 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,120 Speaker 1: a job or the absence of a really satisfying job. 460 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 1: You know. So if you're doing a lot of super 461 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: intensive domestic stuff all the time, you know, you're say 462 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 1: you're homeschooling your kids, or you're just, um, you have 463 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,360 Speaker 1: a huge garden that you're in every day, or you're 464 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: sewing your own clothes, or you're you know, you're raising chickens. 465 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: That sort of becomes like a career in a sense 466 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: for some people, and even people who don't take it 467 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: that far. I think, you know, um, even just being 468 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: very invested in something like cooking from scratch takes a 469 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: lot of time and energy and creativity. UM that maybe 470 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: you're not using on the job job because you are 471 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: because you don't have a job, or because you um, 472 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: you know, you have a job that's not fully engaging 473 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: you for whatever reason. And I think this is even 474 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: for for younger women who don't have kids, and for 475 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: men and everybody. I think dissatisfaction with the job definitely 476 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: leads to, um, wanting to do more creative stuff. So 477 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: if you're sort of bored in your job, like lots 478 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: of us are, you know, especially with the recession and 479 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: people maybe not having their dream job, like, yeah, you 480 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: want to come home and you want to you know, 481 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: do something that you're engaged with and passionate about. And 482 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: that's where you know, raising your bees on the rooftop, 483 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: and you know, and crocheting, that's where that kind of 484 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: stuff comes in to still that to still that gap. Well, 485 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: speaking of raising bees on rooftops, it was very curious 486 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: about maybe some of the more extreme or just intriguing 487 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: examples of new domesticity, like you know, like someone washing 488 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: laundering their own clothes with you know, an old school washboard, 489 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: or grinding their own flower or anything like that. I 490 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: did not actually meet anyone who used an old fashioned washboard. 491 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: That would be so much work, oh my gosh, but 492 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: you know what, I'm sure somebody's doing it. I did 493 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: meet lots of people who you know, who hung their 494 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: clothes to dry. Um. But I met let's see, I 495 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: met a woman in Brooklyn who was raising rabbits and 496 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: chickens and bees in her Brooklyn backyard that was like, 497 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: you know, the size of a postage stamp. Um. I 498 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: met a woman who had been a web designer and 499 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: had decided to just go off grid on our own 500 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: when was living in like very rural up state New 501 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: York trying to raise sheep. Um. I met you know, 502 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: women that were very into natural mothering, who you know, 503 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: had six kids before they were thirty and we're homeschooling 504 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: all of them. Um. So yeah, and people who people 505 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: who were trying really hard to grow all their own food. Um, 506 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: some people who sewed all their families clothes. So yeah, 507 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: I mean you can you can see how a few, 508 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: know you are really into new domesticity is like an 509 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: entire lifestyle. Um, it's a it's quite time and energy consuming. Yeah, 510 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: I can help me imagine. Um. Well you also you 511 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 1: mentioned a few minutes ago that you also spoke to 512 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: some men about new domestics new domesticity, and I just 513 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: wanted to know where they fit into it, because you know, 514 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: it makes sense that a lot of the conversation is 515 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: framed around women, mothers who are very invested in this 516 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: kind of housekeeping and and crafting and stuff. But obviously 517 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: men are are getting in on this as well. So 518 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: what what are they doing in terms of new domesticity. Yeah, 519 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: I mean a lot of a lot of the same 520 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: things really, Um, you know, I mean women have historically 521 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: UM stronger and a complicated relationship with um, with the 522 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: domestic sphere, but that's that's changing. And a lot of men, 523 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: especially young men, are you know, are also interested in 524 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: in d I y domesticity. I mean tons of men 525 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: are you know, really interested in cooking and you know, 526 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: curing their own bacon and uh making stuff from scratch 527 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: and pickling and all that stuff in the kitchen. Um, 528 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: you know. I mean I think men are definitely behind 529 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: when it comes to uh, you know, traditional crafts um, 530 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: which has been very very female dominated over the years. 531 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 1: But plenty of guys are are into other d I 532 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: y type stuff. I mean, there are there are some 533 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: guys that are into knitting. I did interview u, um 534 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: a male quilster um and uh. But you know, guys 535 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 1: doing things like you know, fixing their own bikes and 536 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: other sorts of of do it yourself building things around 537 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: the house than guys who wanted to build their own 538 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: houses um and uh and yeah. When it comes to parenting, 539 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: I mean that the whole natural parenting movement does tend 540 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: to be very mother centric, but there are men I 541 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: talked to who were involved in and stuff like like 542 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: home schooling their kids um and yeah. And then the 543 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: whole home studying movement. UM, A lot of men are 544 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: into that and a lot of the people I talked to, 545 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: UM they would be couples and both partners would be 546 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: involved in the homesteading to some degree, which you know, 547 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: if you're going to be doing something as time consuming 548 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: is raising animals, you know, in a suburban backyard, it's 549 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: a good thing of both of you are are invested 550 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: in it. Is there anything that we didn't touch on 551 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: about new domesticity or anything related to that that you 552 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: would like our listeners to know about. I mean, I 553 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: guess I just think, um, new domesticity can mean a 554 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 1: lot of different different things and for some people, you know, 555 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: some people are just you know, maybe involved and you know, 556 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: they just happen to like to knit or craft and 557 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: it doesn't have any larger meaning than that. But I 558 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,839 Speaker 1: think when you take all these things together, I think 559 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: it's definitely a movement to you know, to reclaim you know, 560 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,239 Speaker 1: some slower ways of living and uh and live in 561 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: a more sustainable way. And it's a reaction to the 562 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: bad and you know, um economy and people dissatisfaction with 563 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 1: jobs and just sort of a general unhappiness with the 564 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: status quo. Um that's leading people to be interested in 565 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: everything from making their own clothes to growing their own 566 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:43,279 Speaker 1: food to you know, homeschool and their kids. So I 567 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: think Um, it's a it's a lot of different things 568 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: that it means different things for different people. Yeah, it's 569 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: definitely interesting. It's it's very interesting to see how, like 570 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: you you had said, it touches like so many different 571 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: people with different political affiliation or might be religious motivations 572 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: or more secular motivations. It's just it's kind of fascinating 573 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: to see how it appeals to such a broad and 574 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,919 Speaker 1: diverse group of people. Um. Yeah, Well, in my book, 575 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 1: I have a whole chapter on the I'm the sort 576 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 1: of bizarre bedfellows of new domesticity. How you get stuff 577 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:26,360 Speaker 1: like you know, the Amish and you know, bearded Brooklyn 578 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: hipsters who are you know, swapping tips about you know, 579 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 1: seeds and growing tomatoes, and you get you know, very 580 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,800 Speaker 1: very conservative religious Christian women that are into natural mothering 581 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: because it appeals to their sort of idea, you know, 582 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 1: of of you know, god given motherly instinct. And they're 583 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: doing things like home birthing and home schooling, um, cloth 584 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: diapering and that whole thing, just like the superliberal countrywomen 585 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,440 Speaker 1: of Berkeley who are doing it for completely different reasons. 586 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,799 Speaker 1: Um So I think I think that's really be fascinating 587 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,760 Speaker 1: this sort of that, you know, red state and blue 588 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 1: state how would come together on the domestic front in 589 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 1: this way. So I'd like to go ahead and just 590 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,360 Speaker 1: thank Emily so much for talking to us. It was 591 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 1: a really interesting interview. And I do think this whole 592 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: concept of new domesticity is fascinating just simply, I mean, 593 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 1: like taking all the rest of it out, just simply 594 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: for the fact that so many different types of people 595 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,319 Speaker 1: subscribe to this philosophy of I'm going to make things 596 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: at home. I'm going to make things myself. I'm going 597 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: to you know, provide for my family and myself, uh 598 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: by making things with my own hands. Yeah. And it's 599 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: really fascinating to me too what what she hits on 600 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 1: in terms of how it's often fueled. It seems like 601 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 1: by a general angst over the pace of our day 602 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 1: to day life and needing to take time away from 603 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 1: the hustle and bustle of twenty one century living, to 604 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: to slow down and actually make things that we can 605 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,359 Speaker 1: hold and that we can eat, and that we can 606 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,239 Speaker 1: take pictures of and put on Pinterest. You know. That's 607 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,359 Speaker 1: the funny part of it. It's that tension between wanting 608 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: to get away from it and yet the Internet fueling 609 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: it at the same time. So UM, I can't wait 610 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: to hear from folks out there who are knitters and 611 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 1: canners and cooks and chicken raizors New domesticity folks, I'm 612 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 1: sure you know who you are. And again, um, you 613 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 1: can find Emily Matcher's writing all over the Internet at 614 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 1: places like The Washington Post, Salon, Men's Journal, the BBC, 615 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: The Hairpin and other sites as well, and she also 616 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: blogs at New Domesticity dot com. And again, Emily Matcher's book, 617 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: which is coming out in May, is called Homeward Bound, 618 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 1: The New Cult of Domesticity. It's coming out from Simon 619 00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:00,040 Speaker 1: and Schuster, So keep an eye out for that. And 620 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: thanks so much to Emily. And for folks who want 621 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 1: to send us your thoughts on New Domesticity and what 622 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,279 Speaker 1: you thought about what Emily had to say, you can 623 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 1: send us an email. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com 624 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:22,320 Speaker 1: is our address. Here is a letter from jos Kristen. 625 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 1: She wrote in about our dieting and Feminism is episode 626 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,399 Speaker 1: and was a little disappointed, oh man. She says she's 627 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: disappointed that neither of us mentioned the idea of health 628 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: at every size or h a e S well not 629 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,360 Speaker 1: directly related to feminism. Health at Every Size is a 630 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 1: concept that many fat activists have been advocating. My understanding 631 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 1: of Health at Every Size is that it questions a 632 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 1: lot of commonly health belief surrounding obesity and health, such 633 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 1: as the supposed link between obesity and diabetes. Supporters of 634 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,359 Speaker 1: h a e S advocate for eating a balanced diet 635 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 1: and exercising regardless of how much weight loss it may 636 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: or may not cause. Linda Bacon's book Help at Every Size, 637 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 1: The Surprising Truth about Your Weight is a good place 638 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,359 Speaker 1: to start if you're new to the idea. There's quite 639 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,360 Speaker 1: a lot to be said about h a e S 640 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,799 Speaker 1: and perhaps worth doing an entire episode on. Yeah, fat 641 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 1: activism is um something that we do need to talk 642 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:19,719 Speaker 1: about at some point, So thanks for the point, Jos. Yeah. Absolutely. 643 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,719 Speaker 1: And I've got another email here in response to our 644 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,360 Speaker 1: episode on whether dating is a feminist issue, and this 645 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 1: is from Kendra and she writes, I was appropriately enough 646 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 1: working out in the gym when I listened to your 647 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 1: podcast on dieting and feminism, and I got so excited 648 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 1: that I scooted my tush off the elliptical just to 649 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,920 Speaker 1: give my opinion on the issue. She says, as a 650 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: recovering interrexic, I spent most of high school dieting myself 651 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 1: to a very unhealthy b M. I I was able 652 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 1: to break away from the disease in part by making 653 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 1: dieting a feminist issue in my own life. Every time 654 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: I saw a calorie count go above six hundred in 655 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,839 Speaker 1: a day, I justified it by using the battle cry, 656 00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:01,160 Speaker 1: and I will take out the explutive here, screw the patriarchy. 657 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 1: A few years have passed, and I finally feel secure 658 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,480 Speaker 1: enough with myself to be able to look at diet 659 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 1: and exercise a bit more objectively. While I still refuse 660 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,240 Speaker 1: to diet for weight loss, I find that daily exercise 661 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 1: helps me in a number of ways beyond making me 662 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 1: fit into my skinny jeans. I feel more relaxed, to 663 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,600 Speaker 1: have better sleep, and even have clearer skin when I 664 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,680 Speaker 1: work out for even just thirty minutes a day. Besides, 665 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,960 Speaker 1: it gives me a great opportunity to listen to folks 666 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 1: like you on a regular basis. So in summery, while 667 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: I tend to disapprove of women dieting just to get skinny, 668 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,160 Speaker 1: because I worry about them slipping down the same rabbit 669 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:33,960 Speaker 1: hole that I did. I think that women one and 670 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: all should always do whatever makes them feel like the 671 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 1: best version of themselves here here, indeed, so thank you 672 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 1: Kendra and John and everyone else who has written into us. 673 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 1: Moms Stuff at Discovery dot com is where you can 674 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,840 Speaker 1: send your letters, or you can head over to Facebook 675 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 1: and start a conversation there and like us. While you're 676 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,920 Speaker 1: at it, You can tweet us at Mom's Stuff podcast, 677 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 1: and you can also tumble with us on Tumbler Stuff 678 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You dot tumbler dot com. And again, 679 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,320 Speaker 1: huge thanks to Emily Matcher for taking the time to 680 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,040 Speaker 1: chat with us about New Domesticity and her new book, 681 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:12,600 Speaker 1: Homeward Bound. Please check it out, and as always, if 682 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,799 Speaker 1: you would like to get a little smarter this week, 683 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,960 Speaker 1: you can head over to our website, it is how 684 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. For more on this and thousands 685 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,799 Speaker 1: of other topics, visit how stuff Works dot com.