1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 2: Historian Courtney macnveile is the author of Civil War Ghosts 3 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 2: of Georgia Volumes one and two, Civil War Ghosts of Connecticut, 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 2: Revolutionary War Ghosts of Connecticut, and Haunted Mystic. You come 5 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 2: by your interest in hauntings honestly, as I say, you 6 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 2: grew up in a haunted house that was investigated by 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 2: none other than Ed and Lorraine Warren tell me about that. 8 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very true. 9 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 4: So I grew up in New England, and I think 10 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 4: if you ask anyone from New England were no stranger 11 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 4: to hauntings. 12 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 3: Every house sort of has a creaky floorboard. 13 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 4: Or flickering light, and our house was no different when 14 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 4: I was growing up, and my parents were, you know, 15 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 4: pretty honest about it. They just said old houses did 16 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 4: strange things. They didn't want my siblings and I growing 17 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 4: up scared. 18 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 3: But as we. 19 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 4: Got older, there was a whole lot of change of 20 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 4: events in our family life. And I think it's important 21 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 4: when you look at extreme hauntings to really understand that 22 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 4: some families can have an experience in one house. 23 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 3: That other people don't. 24 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 4: And there was a lot going on in my familial home, 25 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 4: and my father was working a second job called post 26 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 4: mortem cleanup, where he was cleaning up homicides and suicides, 27 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 4: and it was around that time that we started to 28 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 4: get this really sort of unexplained almost negative or malevolent 29 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 4: haunting activity. And being raised by an Irish Catholic mother. 30 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 4: She was calling priests and everything for house blessings and 31 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 4: they couldn't figure out what. 32 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 3: Was going on. 33 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 4: So she ended up calling Eda Lorraine Warren, who she 34 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 4: found on the old dial up internet on AOL. They 35 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 4: said they helped people in haunted houses, and she gave 36 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 4: them a ring, and after interviewing her and our family, 37 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 4: they took the case. 38 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 2: Wow, and what did they discover. 39 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 4: They told our family that we were residing in a 40 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 4: portal to the other side, and that had sort of 41 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 4: been a train station for spirits, and that there were 42 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 4: benign or okay ones, and that there were malevolent ones, 43 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 4: and that they had to conduct a cleansing, almost like 44 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 4: an exorcism of the home. And so my family had 45 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 4: to leave the home for a while while they conducted 46 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 4: this cleansing of the home, which was ultimately very helpful, 47 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 4: but I would say not you know, permanent. We ended 48 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 4: up still having more haunted activity, and a few years 49 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 4: later my mom did sell the house. 50 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: Wow. 51 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 2: And then later you worked with the FBI and Homeland Security. 52 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 2: I mean, how did that in investigative background help you 53 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 2: bring or what did it bring to your paranormal and 54 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 2: historical research. 55 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 4: I think I think it's much more helpful than I 56 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 4: initially realized. So it's funny I growing up in a 57 00:02:56,200 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 4: haunted house and things. I almost at that age was 58 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 4: embarrassed by it. 59 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 3: I didn't want anyone to know those things about me. 60 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 4: Now people are a lot more open about the paranormal 61 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 4: and the occults and their beliefs and experiences, and it's 62 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 4: a lot more unifying. But it wasn't that way. So 63 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 4: I went to college and told no one and got 64 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 4: a job working for the government. And I worked for 65 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 4: a cold case homicide unit when I was in college 66 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 4: for NCIS, and then I was able to work for 67 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 4: the Bureau after that as an analyst, and by that 68 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 4: I was able to go through the FBI Academy, And 69 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 4: really what that did for me was help me to 70 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 4: learn how to corroborate information, how to validate facts, how 71 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 4: to put things together. In a timeline that makes sense 72 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 4: when you're telling a story, so that it is supported. 73 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 4: And I found that with the paranormal a lot of 74 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 4: times our emotions can sort of tell us what we 75 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 4: want to say. And so all of that work with 76 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 4: the FBI Academy and learning about corroboration and validation helped 77 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 4: me to add those facts in those layers to make 78 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 4: the stories that much more meaningful and have much more evidence. 79 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 3: So I'm very grateful that I had that. 80 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 2: Are there regional differences in hauntings? So, for example, do 81 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 2: New England hauntings differ from Southern hauntings? 82 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: Oh? 83 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 4: Absolutely, on a micro scale they do, because of what 84 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 4: happened in these. 85 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 3: Areas is vastly different. 86 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,919 Speaker 4: And if we're talking on a broad scope, hauntings and 87 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 4: communication with human spirits or through tragedy can happen anywhere. 88 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 4: So if you're up in New England, a lot of 89 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 4: people are going to be talking about the Salem witch Trials, 90 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 4: some of the early massacres against the Native Americans, some 91 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 4: seafaring tragedies and shipwrecks, Whereas down South we're going to 92 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 4: be talking a lot about the Civil War, the Trail 93 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 4: of Tears, there's a lot more when it comes to 94 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 4: cryptids when worthy American South. That sort of comes from 95 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 4: these rich Appalachian lores of a mix of Scots, Irish, German, 96 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 4: and African American cultures combining. So depending on what cultures 97 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 4: settled can also dictate your paranormal. 98 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 3: New England has a lot more. 99 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 4: English people, so they might have a little bit less 100 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 4: of the monstrous sort of stories that the Scots, Irish 101 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 4: and stuff are familiar with because they've always leaned into 102 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 4: the supernatural. And a lot of them settled down South, 103 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 4: so you see those differences come from the cultures and 104 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 4: where they settled. 105 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 2: And does geography influence the type of activity reported. 106 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 3: I think it does. 107 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 4: I find that a lot of times locations by the 108 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 4: water seem to be sort of a natural conduit for activity. 109 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 3: So I've often felt sort. 110 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 4: Of that combining of the natural elements here on Earth, 111 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 4: of land and water can bring things together. However, being 112 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 4: working in Chickamauga and Gettysburg in places like that, you're 113 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 4: more in mountainous regions which have their own sort of mysteries. 114 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 3: So I do. 115 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 4: Feel that areas that really have something geographical that shapes them, 116 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 4: that sets them apart from somewhere else do tend to 117 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 4: gravitate toward more activity. 118 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 2: A little earlier, you were mentioning time slips. What are 119 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 2: they to me? 120 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 4: A time slip is when you go to a place 121 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 4: and you are either hearing or sensing something that's. 122 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 3: Not of your time. 123 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:37,559 Speaker 4: Like so, if you're on a battlefield, you might hear 124 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 4: a cannon fire, or you might smell gunpowder in the air, 125 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 4: and you'll think, oh, that, you know, that's not around. 126 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:47,559 Speaker 3: That could be a slip in time. 127 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 4: There are stories too, where it's much bigger, where people 128 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 4: actually look around them and they see people of a 129 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 4: different era and just for a second they feel like 130 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 4: they're almost like a fish out of and they're existing 131 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 4: in this other time. 132 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 3: So it can be like. 133 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 4: That where for a moment you're seeing something else. There 134 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 4: were two sisters in Versailles a couple hundred years ago 135 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 4: and they ended up, you know, having a time slip 136 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 4: where they saw you know, Marie Antoinette and all these 137 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 4: people walking around, and they were so confused and for 138 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 4: the rest of their lives they were trying to figure 139 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 4: it out how for a few minutes in Versailles they 140 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 4: were back in time and those things do happen on occasion, 141 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 4: and that's what I would call a time slip. 142 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 2: Have you ever accidentally stepped into the past. 143 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 4: I've had like some of those sensory experiences. I think 144 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 4: only once did I have an experience where it felt 145 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 4: as if I was somewhat in the past. I had 146 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 4: like one foot in each I want to say. And 147 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 4: it wasn't Gettysburg. I was by the Eternal Flame, and 148 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 4: it's near an area called Iverson's Charge, where a Confederate 149 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 4: general he. 150 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 3: Was a little bit drunk, he was grieving. 151 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 4: He was not necessarily the nicest man at that time, 152 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 4: and he sent a bunch of his soldiers into a 153 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 4: terrible move where hundreds, if not thousands of them died 154 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 4: within moments. And people would always say that area was haunted. 155 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 4: And so I was walking around seeing what I could sense, 156 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 4: when all of a sudden I saw a man standing. 157 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 3: There in uniform. 158 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 4: And it was at night, back in the day you 159 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 4: could go on the battlefield at night. And he looked 160 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 4: at me as if he saw me, and was as 161 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 4: baffled by the side of me as I was by him. 162 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 4: And I actually had on an audio recorder at that time, 163 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 4: and you can hear me calling for my husband because 164 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 4: I got really nervous that this man was so close, 165 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 4: and I sort. 166 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 3: Of skidaddled back to the car. 167 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 4: My husband heard me, and he got in the car, 168 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 4: and as we were driving away, I could see the 169 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 4: man following the car, and I could see him looking 170 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 4: at me in the window, and the sort of motion 171 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 4: detector that tells you where something is was blinking on 172 00:08:59,000 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 4: my side where I saw. 173 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 3: So I think for. 174 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 4: A moment our time paths crossed or something like that, 175 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 4: and we confused each other. 176 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 3: But I do think that's rare. 177 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 4: Although when I'm out on the battlefield walking for a moment, 178 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 4: sometimes I think it would be really neat if I 179 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 4: just saw them walking by or marching and that sort 180 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 4: of thing, and sometimes you can feel it and you 181 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:22,559 Speaker 4: just know it's right there. 182 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 2: Why does some spirits seem tied to specific objects or structures. 183 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:33,959 Speaker 4: I think a lot of that is actually us as 184 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 4: humans trying to figure that out. There's a long held 185 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 4: belief that ghosts or spirits are something that can't cross over, 186 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 4: or they're stuck in a place, and so we start 187 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 4: to associate that place or that object with them. I 188 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 4: think that's more of a human concept than a spiritual concept. 189 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 3: I think spirits are very. 190 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 4: Fluid and move around, and while there is residual energy, 191 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 4: I feel like they might go back to some of 192 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 4: these places, but they're not stuck there. What I more 193 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 4: think is attracting them is a familiarity. Right, So, if 194 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 4: you are a spirit and you are sort of on 195 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 4: this earthly plane of existence for any reason, even if 196 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 4: it's ensuring your memory, You're going to want to go 197 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 4: to things or around things that are familiar to you. 198 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 4: So I think things of certain eras and interests might 199 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 4: have spirits gravitate to them for that reason, not as 200 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 4: much as an attachment. 201 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 2: Though your ghost tours, you have two very successful ghost tours. 202 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 2: How do you handle skeptics on your tours? 203 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 3: Oh? 204 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 4: I love having skeptics on my tours because my goal 205 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 4: is not to change your mind or convert you or 206 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 4: make you believe anything. I'm going to tell you the 207 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 4: stories of the history as they were written by those 208 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 4: people and as I've experienced them. And so no matter what, 209 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 4: even if you're a skeptic, you can enjoy the stories, 210 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 4: but I want you to come with an open mind. 211 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 4: And so one of the things I always do. Especially 212 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 4: that I feel as helpful with skeptics is I bring 213 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 4: out news articles or writings that people had in the 214 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 4: eighteen hundreds where they documented what they saw as a ghost, 215 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,559 Speaker 4: and I show them these documents saying, you don't have 216 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 4: to believe me, but here's what they said of their 217 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 4: own time and of their own beliefs. 218 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 3: And sometimes when you see. 219 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 4: It coming from a historic source, it really opens up 220 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 4: your mind to think, huh, would these people be making 221 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 4: this up for us two hundred years later to read. 222 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 3: Probably not. 223 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 4: They really believed in something more too, and they had 224 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 4: something compelling happen. 225 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 3: So I always try to show people some. 226 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 4: Of these clips of evidence that I believe is evidence 227 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 4: of what people have documented over the centuries. 228 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 2: As a skeptical or change his mind is or her 229 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:57,959 Speaker 2: mind as a result. 230 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 4: Oh yes, yes, I love getting those reviews too. Sometimes 231 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 4: I'll usually see them in a review they're like, I 232 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 4: went in a skeptic and I left a believer. It's 233 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 4: either because of something that I had shown them or 234 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 4: because they had just such an experience on the tour 235 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 4: where they felt something that. 236 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 3: It changed their mind. 237 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 4: And I always love when that happens because I think 238 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 4: as humans we try to understand everything and think we're 239 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 4: so knowledgeable, and just having that openness to saying, hey, 240 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 4: maybe I don't know all the facts is very rewarding. 241 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 2: Do you think a memory itself is a kind of haunting? 242 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah, yes, And I love that you say that, 243 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 4: because when I talk about spirits, and especially Civil war spirits, 244 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 4: what I oftentimes find is that they didn't fear dying, 245 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 4: they feared being forgotten. So there were different things that 246 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 4: were done to ensure the perpetuity of their mine memory, 247 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 4: and so flowers were sent to funerals, face masks were made, 248 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 4: clocks were stopped, certain journal things were written, there were 249 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 4: lavish funerals. All of these were things to ensure memory. 250 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 4: So for us, memory is our way of connecting with 251 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 4: the past and those who we have lost or will 252 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,839 Speaker 4: have been lost over time. Any way that we can 253 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 4: carry that memory is in a sense carrying their spirit 254 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 4: and as I mentioned, signaling that familiarity to the spirit 255 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 4: to come through. 256 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 2: Do you think ignoring history is a way of creating 257 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 2: more ghosts. 258 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 4: I think it's a way of making ghosts angry. I 259 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 4: think it's, you know, our. 260 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 3: Service to our fellow human being. Whether they're alive or not. 261 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 4: To try and understand them and treat them with dignity 262 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 4: and respect, and so to learn of their time and 263 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,199 Speaker 4: what happened to them is the best thing you can 264 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,839 Speaker 4: do to connect with spirit. Otherwise it's just as rude 265 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 4: as you walking into someone's home that you don't know 266 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,439 Speaker 4: or care about and demanding they answer you. 267 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 3: You know, I think that. 268 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 4: Spirits have to be treated with respect to their history 269 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 4: and who they were for you to really understand them. 270 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 2: Tell me a little bit about Mystic, Connecticut. 271 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 3: Sure. 272 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 4: So. Mystic is set in far southeastern Connecticut, not far 273 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 4: from the Rhode Island border, and it is one of 274 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 4: the oldest seafaring towns. It's a halfway point between Boston 275 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 4: and New York, right near the city of New London. 276 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 3: And Mystic was the site of one of the. 277 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 4: First massacres on what would become us soil, and it 278 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 4: was called the Mystic mascar of sixteen thirty seven, where 279 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 4: several hundred Pequa indigenous people were murdered by fire for 280 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 4: some the British settlers. After that, Mystic became a settlement 281 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 4: where all of these shipbuilders came. But by way of that, 282 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 4: a lot of ship tragedies would also follow of sinkings 283 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 4: or missing ships, and so a lot of that history 284 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 4: is there, as well as American revolutionary history. There were 285 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 4: a lot of Revolutionary War soldiers from that area. 286 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 2: And have you experienced anything something that scared you in 287 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 2: Mystic Connecticut? 288 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, it was on my very own graveyard tour. 289 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 4: And I feel bad saying it because I actually do 290 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 4: love this spirit's story, but it very much scared me 291 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 4: at the time. So when I was giving a tour, 292 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 4: I was talking about an attack that Benedict Arnold had 293 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 4: had on our area, and I was standing by the 294 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 4: grave of a gentleman who was killed in that attack. 295 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 4: And when I was standing there by the grave, I 296 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 4: noticed that a lot of people started having these sort 297 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 4: of outpouring of emotions and they were feeling really strange, 298 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 4: and so I had sort of talked them down. I 299 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 4: continued with my story. I was looking at all of 300 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 4: my guests to make sure they were all right, and 301 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 4: then all of a sudden, I looked at this one 302 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 4: man and he looked at me very sternly, like he 303 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 4: was fact checking everything I said. And then I went 304 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 4: to the next person in the line and It suddenly 305 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 4: hit me, like an epiphany, that the man I had 306 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 4: just been looking at wasn't someone who had been on 307 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 4: my tour prior to that moment. It wasn't someone I 308 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 4: had checked in, it wasn't someone dressed of the correct era. 309 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 4: And I thought, oh my gosh, this is him making 310 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 4: sure I told his story correctly. And all my guests 311 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 4: told me where I saw him is where they had 312 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 4: felt a person standing and had gotten all those strange emotions. 313 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 4: And ever since then we have captured voices there in 314 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 4: pages of a man there, as if he continues to 315 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 4: make sure we're doing his story justice. 316 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at 317 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: one am Eastern, and go to Coast to cooastam dot 318 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: com for more