Speaker 1: Native Lampod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Speaker 1: Reizent Choice Media.
Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 1: Home, y'all, this is Native Lampod and we are here
Speaker 1: for our mini pod. Joining us today is the National
Speaker 1: director for Working Families Party. Working Families had a really
Speaker 1: big week this week. We're gonna talk to Maurice Mitchell
Speaker 1: about the historic wins that they saw and some other
Speaker 1: things around our politics. So more Welcome to Native Lampod again,
Speaker 1: good brother, Yes.
Speaker 3: Yes, Oh, it's good to be a repeat visitor to
Speaker 3: the to the pod, and it's really good to be
Speaker 3: with y'all you.
Speaker 2: Too, brother. Welcome a big week indeed, and not just
Speaker 2: in the New York State, but really around the country. Man,
Speaker 2: I'm curious if we could probably kick off the conversation
Speaker 2: with you going down the list of highs lows, what
Speaker 2: people are to be watching, paying attention to, and we
Speaker 2: weren't as a result of this week's elections. Yeah, give
Speaker 2: us the rundown.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's a lot to parts and you know,
Speaker 3: in some races there's still kind of votes, but you know,
Speaker 3: as it stands today, you know, we'll talk about New York.
Speaker 3: But I'm excited by the fact that in New York
Speaker 3: State we had victories in the city of Albany, the
Speaker 3: City of Syracuse, the city of Buffalo, And in Albany
Speaker 3: and Syracuse we have Sharon Owens in Syracuse and we
Speaker 3: have Darcy a Players in Albany. They would be the
Speaker 3: first black women ever to hold those seats, right, and
Speaker 3: so we I mean, it is incredible that we were
Speaker 3: able to build a coalition around these black women. And
Speaker 3: the same money that was fighting us in New York
Speaker 3: City was fighting us in these races, right, And they
Speaker 3: represent the same politics, focusing like a laser on affordability,
Speaker 3: wanting to make the city work for working people.
Speaker 4: So I'm excited about that. I'm also excited by the
Speaker 4: fact that.
Speaker 3: You know, in in Georgia, a black woman was able
Speaker 3: to want run and win statewide, right, and we need
Speaker 3: to put a spotlight on that seat because you know,
Speaker 3: she was able to build a coalition that included clearly
Speaker 3: a lot of Republicans because she molliwopped her opponent. That's
Speaker 3: that's a critical win. And we know we endorsed in
Speaker 3: that race, and we're really proud of her. You know,
Speaker 3: in Detroit, a brother, Denzel mccampbell. Keep an eye on him.
Speaker 3: He ran as an outsider in city council. We endorsed him,
Speaker 3: We supported him from the very beginning. He's going to
Speaker 3: be sitting on city council in Detroit, you know. And
Speaker 3: then there's these these very particular races that are very
Speaker 3: close to my heart because I build the Working Families Party.
Speaker 3: These are people who ran in the general election not
Speaker 3: as a Democrat against the Democrat and the Republican, as
Speaker 3: an independent Working fan These party person and they and
Speaker 3: they were able to actually win.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 3: And so we we have a case in in New York,
Speaker 3: in New York, uh, in Newburgh, in Newport, New York
Speaker 3: City Council Ta Meeka Stewart, a black woman who ran
Speaker 3: as an independent under the Working Families Party. She will
Speaker 3: be sitting and governing in Onondaga County, that's the county
Speaker 3: where Syracuse is in. There will be a county legislator
Speaker 3: Nicole Watts, a black woman who ran and won in
Speaker 3: this election as an independent Working Families Party person. And
Speaker 3: then in Bridgeport, Connecticut, Uh, we we had a we
Speaker 3: had a victory. Uh actually in Hartford, sorry, Hertford, Connecticut.
Speaker 3: We had a victory with with Chante Browdie. She's gonna
Speaker 3: be sitting at the Hartford Board of Education as an
Speaker 3: independent WFP candidate, where the Democrats in that in that election,
Speaker 3: the Democrats in the Board of Education all joined together
Speaker 3: to make sure that she could lead the Board of
Speaker 3: Education as a WP independent. So you know, those are
Speaker 3: things that we're not going to hear because the story
Speaker 3: understandably has been about Zoramm Donnie in New York, and
Speaker 3: we could talk a lot about that. But in terms
Speaker 3: of like independent black politics and power a black first
Speaker 3: and doing it on our terms, there's a lot happening
Speaker 3: around the country.
Speaker 2: That's good.
Speaker 5: That's good.
Speaker 6: Can I help out?
Speaker 7: I'll ask the question. Thanks for getting us, Marie. I
Speaker 7: want to read you something. There was an article in
Speaker 7: Political this week, an interview with Steve Bannon, who is
Speaker 7: of course Trump's former strategist White House Strategists, and he
Speaker 7: has a warning for Republicans and he named checks. Yeah,
Speaker 7: not specifically, but the WSP. He says, forget the Republican
Speaker 7: Party in New York that's a joke, but the National
Speaker 7: Republican Party and some of the artist strategists do not
Speaker 7: realize the power of the Working Families Party and the
Speaker 7: Democratic Socialists of America for ground game. Modern politics is
Speaker 7: now about engaging low propensity voters, and they clearly turn
Speaker 7: them out tonight. And this kind of and this is
Speaker 7: kind of the Trump model. This is very serious.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 7: Unfortunately the reporter does not fact check him. This certainly
Speaker 7: is not the Trump model. Trump is copying that model
Speaker 7: from what black folks have done for decades. But a
Speaker 7: lot of our audience, quite frankly, is not familiar. They're
Speaker 7: not familiar with you, they're not familiar with Working Families Party.
Speaker 7: They don't know that this exists. So some people are
Speaker 7: tuning in saying, who is this? Why do I care
Speaker 7: about those races and states where I don't live? Why
Speaker 7: should I care? So, how can they plug in? And
Speaker 7: what's your like thirty second elevator pitch to them, especially
Speaker 7: since you've fallen on the radar, the party has fallen
Speaker 7: on the radar of such right wing conservative extremists like
Speaker 7: Steve Bannon.
Speaker 4: Well, you'll know me by my enemies.
Speaker 3: And so the Working Families the Working Family Party was
Speaker 3: born in a moment in the late nineties when the
Speaker 3: Democratic Party decided to get in bed with wall Street.
Speaker 3: And that's the same Democratic Party that passed the ninety
Speaker 3: four crime Bill. That's the same Democratic Party that supported
Speaker 3: welfare reform quote unquote welfare reform that made it harder
Speaker 3: for her for a working class and poor people to
Speaker 3: access to access those services, and you know, using a
Speaker 3: lot of racist tropes to do that. And at that time,
Speaker 3: the Working Families Party was born because many many people
Speaker 3: felt that the Democrats were portraying the base and the base,
Speaker 3: the heart of the Democratic Party base has historically been
Speaker 3: the black community, specifically working class black people. And so
Speaker 3: this multiracial coalition of grassroots organizations and labor institutions came
Speaker 3: together that was more than twenty five years ago. And
Speaker 3: what we do is we build from the grass roots up.
Speaker 3: We recruit candidates that otherwise wouldn't run because they don't
Speaker 3: have access to money, educators, organizers, folks in unions, everyday people,
Speaker 3: and we primarily focus on the local level school boards,
Speaker 3: city council. That's the pipeline to people learn how to govern.
Speaker 3: And then eventually, like Summerly for example, that cut her
Speaker 3: teeth in the state legislature and now is in Congress.
Speaker 3: Eventually you could develop those skills of governing on the
Speaker 3: local level and find yourself in Congress. It's that slow, steady,
Speaker 3: consistent work that is going to build a movement that
Speaker 3: could actually sustain victories for our people instead of sort
Speaker 3: of flashing the pan politics and theatrics. Look, anything that
Speaker 3: you want done, you take. Anything worth doing is going
Speaker 3: to take some work. And we've done the work to
Speaker 3: build a pathway for independent politics. I'd be remiss if
Speaker 3: I didn't bring up Attorney General Tis James. She entered
Speaker 3: politics through the Working Families Party party in two and
Speaker 3: three because the Democratic Party didn't know what to do
Speaker 3: with the independent black woman. But we did, and she
Speaker 3: ran as an independent Working Families person in city council
Speaker 3: in Brooklyn, and that's how she started. And eventually, once
Speaker 3: she got in you can't be in them to join them,
Speaker 3: the Democrats embraced her, and she rolls all the way
Speaker 3: to the top and was able to hold Donald Trump accountable.
Speaker 4: So it's those politics.
Speaker 3: If you're really serious about independent politics, if you're serious
Speaker 3: about black people governing, then you have to do the
Speaker 3: hard work of truly governing, but also of recruiting the
Speaker 3: hundreds and hundreds or thousands of volunteers to develop the
Speaker 3: skills to figure out how to use people power in
Speaker 3: order to get somebody elected and push back against the billionaires.
Speaker 3: Right Zorn's campaigns is a perfect example. They spent forty
Speaker 3: million dollars against him and they lost. They completely collapsed.
Speaker 3: Because we have the people power, but that people power
Speaker 3: doesn't come overnight. You have to assiduously build the people power.
Speaker 3: You need to be in the community. You need to
Speaker 3: actually be organizing year round, something that unfortunately both parties
Speaker 3: have either forgotten or are never interested in doing so.
Speaker 2: Then, how do you just just to follow up quickly
Speaker 2: on Tiffany's question, for people who are not in places
Speaker 2: where there is an active formed working families party but
Speaker 2: are really upset at being quote taken for granted or
Speaker 2: not represented, not seeing the afterthought, where could they go?
Speaker 2: Because I almost see it as somewhat of a bit
Speaker 2: of a bargain, right, if you want us, you got
Speaker 2: to come with what you're going to get us, and
Speaker 2: we'll bargain with you about where we then put our support.
Speaker 2: Our votes are, our time, attention, volunteery, so on and
Speaker 2: so forth. So how do you equip other places of
Speaker 2: the communities with that kind of power.
Speaker 3: Sure, So the Working Families Party isn't an organization that
Speaker 3: comes into a community. The Working Families Party is built
Speaker 3: in each community from the ground up. So if people
Speaker 3: are interested, did I would ask them just go to
Speaker 3: our website and see if there is a chapter or
Speaker 3: if there's an organizing committee in their state, and if not,
Speaker 3: and they're and they're serious, they should reach out to
Speaker 3: us and and we are down to talk.
Speaker 4: Listen.
Speaker 3: The the interest is really intense about building the WFP,
Speaker 3: and we're interested in building WFP everywhere. The other thing
Speaker 3: is that we have volunteer opportunities for people even in
Speaker 3: the places where we don't have staff or we don't
Speaker 3: have a chapter and people. We support people everywhere to
Speaker 3: build basically like violent what we call. You know, we
Speaker 3: don't have, uh, the the elephant or the donkey like
Speaker 3: the Democrats or the Republicans. We have the wolf and
Speaker 3: so we have our wolf packs and we support them
Speaker 3: in places where we don't have staff. And those those
Speaker 3: wolf pasts, they were they were getting down in this election,
Speaker 3: all across the country doing work both in their in
Speaker 3: their communities and also supporting candidates around the country, and
Speaker 3: so anybody who's listening to this and they're like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I believe that people have been taken for granted by
Speaker 3: the Democrats. I understand that the Republicans are racist, I
Speaker 3: understand that they are problematic, but if we continue doing
Speaker 3: what we've been doing, we're going to get the same results.
Speaker 3: The WFP is a viable option for people who want
Speaker 3: to do politics different but also do politics in a
Speaker 3: way that's effective and strategic. And yeah, we invite anybody to,
Speaker 3: you know, figure out how they could get down with us,
Speaker 3: and we try to make it as easy as possible
Speaker 3: based on what level of commitment people have.
Speaker 6: Well, I want to ask you about Detroit.
Speaker 1: When you spoke earlier, you mentioned a city council race
Speaker 1: that you are really excited about. Who did Working Families
Speaker 1: Party support in the mayoral race in Detroit?
Speaker 3: Okay, so we didn't endorse in the mayoral race. We
Speaker 3: often focus on the places that we think we could
Speaker 3: have the most impact. I think, you know, we're pleased
Speaker 3: with the outcome of the mayoral race, but we're fairly
Speaker 3: new in Detroit, and so at the stage and the
Speaker 3: level of capacity that we have, we focused on two
Speaker 3: city council races where we felt like we could have
Speaker 3: the most impact, and that was Denzil mccampbell and Gabriella
Speaker 3: Santiago Romero, who is currently on the city council. And
Speaker 3: so there's times where we what we don't like to
Speaker 3: do is just kind of slap our logo on a
Speaker 3: particular race or just give a paper endorsement. We like
Speaker 3: to be really hands on and provide real capacity and
Speaker 3: be the difference maker and the races that we're in
Speaker 3: and in those races we had a deep relationship, we
Speaker 3: were able to make a real difference, play a role
Speaker 3: on the independent side and also inside of the campaign.
Speaker 3: And you know, we're always making choices like that with
Speaker 3: our capacity, with our brand, with our endorsement, how we
Speaker 3: can have the most impact. And so in Detroit, that's
Speaker 3: how we.
Speaker 1: Show that when you all are deciding, and I know,
Speaker 1: especially for you, we talk about being a first or
Speaker 1: the only and being you know black in spaces where
Speaker 1: we have you know, critical influence. How do you all
Speaker 1: thread the needle when there's a black elected official, you know,
Speaker 1: at the top of the ticket and you're being faced with, oh,
Speaker 1: there's this particular white opponent, maybe you agree with the
Speaker 1: black elected official.
Speaker 6: We just had this conversation on our main show as well.
Speaker 1: But sixty seventy eighty percent of the time, but this
Speaker 1: white person with no political experience is saying that they're
Speaker 1: gonna ride with y'all.
Speaker 6: Tell the wheels fall off. How do you make that decision?
Speaker 1: And talk about the personal difficulty you encounter if you
Speaker 1: have any in making those types of decisions.
Speaker 4: Sure, so, I'm very careful.
Speaker 3: As a black man and as a black person in politics,
Speaker 3: I'm very careful and very precise as it relates to
Speaker 3: offering public critiques of black elected officials, challenging black elected officials,
Speaker 3: and I've done, but I am very careful about it
Speaker 3: because sometimes those critiques could, when.
Speaker 4: In bad faith, could.
Speaker 3: Could become basically venues for anti blackness, which doesn't serve
Speaker 3: the broader agenda of black politics. And so if you
Speaker 3: hear me critique a black elected official, it has been
Speaker 3: very very considered, right, I would say, in general, when
Speaker 3: it comes to all of our endorsements, there isn't a
Speaker 3: WP endorsement that doesn't go through a very rigorous process
Speaker 3: that considers a number of things, and there isn't a
Speaker 3: WOP endorsement that doesn't fundamentally go through a lot of
Speaker 3: vetting with grass roots organizations, labor institutions, and movement organizations
Speaker 3: on the ground in any particular city or state. And
Speaker 3: there isn't a organizing committee which is one of the
Speaker 3: bodies where we deliberate, or a state committee that where
Speaker 3: we make these decisions, where there isn't a significant presence
Speaker 3: of black folks who have been committed to black power,
Speaker 3: and oftentimes those conversations happen. It was in real time
Speaker 3: where we talk about racial justice, we talk about what
Speaker 3: it means to challenge sitting black elected official, where we
Speaker 3: talk about how being an elective official is very different
Speaker 3: for black people than for white people, where we factor
Speaker 3: in things like experience, and what gives me the confidence
Speaker 3: to support we on Tuesday we have more than seven
Speaker 3: hundred candidates on the ballot. It gives me the confidence
Speaker 3: to support all of our endorsements is I know that
Speaker 3: that process was done in a very rigorous way. And
Speaker 3: so that's how I hold that tension both personally because
Speaker 3: I am the party leader and I represent the party.
Speaker 3: I make sure that the things I communicate there's always
Speaker 3: a racial justice lens, and there's always a lens around
Speaker 3: black politics. And I've demured from taking shots at sitting
Speaker 3: black elected officials because of the larger framing, and I
Speaker 3: didn't feel like there's a way to call that question
Speaker 3: that wouldn't add to a anti black pylon, even if
Speaker 3: there was some validity to that critique. And then I've
Speaker 3: also taken those those those shots when I thought it
Speaker 3: was really important to create some contrast between the independent
Speaker 3: black politics that is rooted in the grassroots and the frankly,
Speaker 3: the bought and paid for black politics of the establishment.
Speaker 5: Let me ask it.
Speaker 8: Let me ask you a question, because one of the
Speaker 8: things that I've been I bring a slightly different perspective
Speaker 8: because I come from like the deep rural South, and
Speaker 8: I've noticed that there's some political policies like school choice,
Speaker 8: for example, which works in major cities, but that doesn't
Speaker 8: necessarily work in rural areas. So my question is political
Speaker 8: movements like WFP, like, how how do you replicate the
Speaker 8: involvement you all have because we have a Working Families
Speaker 8: Party here, but it's by no and it's they're alsome.
Speaker 8: I know them all, but it's not nearly as robust
Speaker 8: as it is in major cities, and I'm pretty sure
Speaker 8: it's the same in some other areas that we were
Speaker 8: looking at throughout the South. How do you replicate that
Speaker 8: robust effort in urban areas compared to rural areas where
Speaker 8: I dare I say the overarching majority of black folk
Speaker 8: live in the pool rural South.
Speaker 4: That's right, That's right. Yeah, that's a great question, bro.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think you know, we had a so
Speaker 3: we were able to leverage fusion voting in New York, Connecticut, Oregon,
Speaker 3: and in South Carolina up until so we actually had
Speaker 3: until until very recently when the Republicans outlawed fusion voting
Speaker 3: because I think they were they were frightened of of
Speaker 3: what we could build using fusion voting. But that's a
Speaker 3: whole other conversation. But that I approached that the way
Speaker 3: that we approach at the Working Families Party is, you know,
Speaker 3: there's an amazing sister, Britney Whaley, who leads our Southeast
Speaker 3: work and is based in Atlanta and has built the
Speaker 3: Georgia Working Families Party and over the next few years
Speaker 3: is really investing in a Southern strategy for independent black
Speaker 3: politics that is going to look very different than the
Speaker 3: work that we did in New York over the past
Speaker 3: few years, right, And so it's not so much about replicating, right,
Speaker 3: because I would never replicate the model of the New
Speaker 3: York Party with what we're doing in Georgia and what
Speaker 3: we're doing actually around the South, because a lot of
Speaker 3: that is based on the particularities of the South, the
Speaker 3: particularities of what it means to build black political power
Speaker 3: in a red state, which is just vastly different, right.
Speaker 3: And so one of the things that we always try
Speaker 3: to do is to be nimble so that the character
Speaker 3: of that state or that locality could really embody what
Speaker 3: the WFP looks like. And I think that's the lesson
Speaker 3: from from today. From today and from election, a lot
Speaker 3: of people are talking about Zora Mamdani, and I think
Speaker 3: that's appropriate and I think there's lessons that we could
Speaker 3: glean from that. And also Zoron's race is particular to
Speaker 3: Zoron in New York, So there's both things that are
Speaker 3: true across the country. Like, I think there's an affordability
Speaker 3: crisis that is facing working people everywhere, and that's it's
Speaker 3: a crisis of the affordability crisis is it's not just
Speaker 3: about economics, it's about dignity. And I think this is
Speaker 3: one of the reasons why people rebuked the Republicans. I
Speaker 3: also think there's a broad rebuke of trump Ism everywhere.
Speaker 3: And yeah, you know, like New York is not the
Speaker 3: Royal South, and we shouldn't pretend that it is. And
Speaker 3: you know, the conditions of black people in rural counties
Speaker 3: in South Carolina or in Georgia, where I recently was
Speaker 3: aren't the same as the conditions of even black folks
Speaker 3: in Bedstye or Flatbush. And we do have commonalities. So
Speaker 3: I think it's kind of like a bolt and the thing.
Speaker 3: The through line though, is that the basis of independent
Speaker 3: politics and to prize our independence and to value our
Speaker 3: political power which has been taken for granted, and to
Speaker 3: challenge the corporate politics that have captured our politics in general.
Speaker 3: You know, unfortunately, because our politics are so expensive, elected
Speaker 3: officials are constantly dialing for dollars, and that means even
Speaker 3: the elected officials with the best intentions are dragged towards
Speaker 3: being on phones with very wealthy people and corporate packs
Speaker 3: in order to fund their elections. And there's something fundamentally
Speaker 3: wrong with that that leads to a poor outcome, especially
Speaker 3: for working class and poor Black people, and so we
Speaker 3: need to build a different type of politics where if
Speaker 3: I'm a working class Black person in the rural South,
Speaker 3: I could run and win and I could do so
Speaker 3: and prize my independence not feel like I have to,
Speaker 3: you know, do the dance with the corporate donors. And
Speaker 3: it's something that everybody has to make a decision around.
Speaker 3: And if we don't build that third space, then you know,
Speaker 3: we can't. I think we can, in one side, critique
Speaker 3: people for doing that dance with corporate donors and not
Speaker 3: build that third space where people could thrive without corporate money.
Speaker 3: And so that's one of the things that we're trying
Speaker 3: to build, a third space in politics where principal people
Speaker 3: could thrive, run and win without that corporate money, without
Speaker 3: the ad PAC money, or the AI money, or the
Speaker 3: crypto money, or pharma or the real estate lobby, which
Speaker 3: is a watch in our politics at general, both the
Speaker 3: Democratic Party and the Republican Party.
Speaker 1: Well, you just brought up a pack and you posted
Speaker 1: a video recently.
Speaker 6: I want to run that clip.
Speaker 3: I just got a text from an organization called the
Speaker 3: National Black Empowerment fund. I just checked the website because
Speaker 3: I'm kind of a nerd al like to do my
Speaker 3: due diligence, and went on the about us page, and
Speaker 3: you know, I see two very official pictures of two
Speaker 3: very official black men. But it turns out they're anything
Speaker 3: but official. Those two men are all but and paid
Speaker 3: for by a pack. Yeah, and the same corporate lobby
Speaker 3: that has ties with bb net and Yahoo and the
Speaker 3: ultra far right, authoritarian racist government that has pursued a
Speaker 3: war against the palest Indian people. Yeah, that APAC. Black
Speaker 3: Empowerment and the Black Agenda and APAC are like oil
Speaker 3: and water. My folks told me that you can only
Speaker 3: serve one master. There's no way you could serve APAC
Speaker 3: and the billionaires and serve the interests of black people.
Speaker 4: That just doesn't happen. This is silly season and elections.
Speaker 3: The people that are supporting Andrew Cuomo, the right wing
Speaker 3: agenda APAC, they're pulling out all the stops because they're desperate,
Speaker 3: including creating fake black organizations that claim to have presence
Speaker 3: in places like New York, in Atlanta and Saint Louis.
Speaker 3: This is a ploy and we're onto it, and we're
Speaker 3: more sophisticated in that, so ma.
Speaker 6: I wanted to play that in part.
Speaker 1: I will say that I definitely am not an APAX supporter,
Speaker 1: but I'm curious to know what what y'all relied on
Speaker 1: to make this video. You called the organization fake, You
Speaker 1: said that it's paid and bought and paid for by
Speaker 1: a pack.
Speaker 6: I just I'm interested to hear your feedback.
Speaker 1: And then Bakari, I love for you to talk about
Speaker 1: your experience with the group.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we did, we did our research. There's there's no
Speaker 3: question that both of those individuals and that organization is
Speaker 3: supported and funded by the by the same sources that
Speaker 3: a PAC and its various various political packs are are
Speaker 3: supported by. And when I say fake, I want to
Speaker 3: be really clear by what I mean, because I've I've
Speaker 3: been organizing my entire life. There's a difference between First
Speaker 3: of all, that's the point of view on their flyers.
Speaker 3: That's only a point of view that people might or
Speaker 3: might not have. But there's a difference between a organization
Speaker 3: that is an authentic black organization that is founded by
Speaker 3: and rooted in the black community, that has all types
Speaker 3: of point of view, and I've been organizing in black
Speaker 3: communities my entire life, and an astroturfh organization that's like
Speaker 3: built by you know, various interests, and there's tons of
Speaker 3: AstroTurf organizations taking different positions. This just happens to be
Speaker 3: a black one that is funded by the those those.
Speaker 2: Lobbies in this case an So I think he was
Speaker 2: using AstroTurf and fake interchangeably that you can be real
Speaker 2: people and still not have any typicals as an organizing organization.
Speaker 2: So I think that's how I interpreted your use of
Speaker 2: the word.
Speaker 6: I understand. I understand Bakari.
Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna go to Andrew and ask Andrew then
Speaker 1: about his experience with this organization.
Speaker 6: I said, joke with with Apex.
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm because since you answered for Bacari, because I said, Bakari,
Speaker 1: can you talk about your experience?
Speaker 6: And now, of course, oh I haven't.
Speaker 2: I haven't answered my experience yet.
Speaker 5: I'd be happy to share that.
Speaker 1: But I wait, Yes, I was asking Bacari to share
Speaker 1: his experience, but I think his computer is frozen, so
Speaker 1: you might be able to go ahead.
Speaker 2: You want me to answer for you, Bokari, I could
Speaker 2: decry it on your behalf.
Speaker 1: I don't know what's happening and is computer may have died. Andrew,
Speaker 1: do you want to talk about Well.
Speaker 2: I think I think your goal was to try to
Speaker 2: get someone who has had will experience. And basically what
Speaker 2: I mean, what I think I heard Bakari share earlier
Speaker 2: is he is familiar with the organization, knows Darius. I
Speaker 2: know Darius, I think all of us do. Actually who
Speaker 2: worked for APAC for a number of years. He's also
Speaker 2: someone who interfaced with my campaign when I was running
Speaker 2: for governor of the State of Florida, wanting to to
Speaker 2: to recruit me to go on a on an APEC
Speaker 2: fronded trip to Israel, of which I did not. But
Speaker 2: I've been to Israel number of times and as mayor,
Speaker 2: had a sister sister city relationship in Ramahasharon, so didn't
Speaker 2: really feel the need to. But but Darius is a
Speaker 2: very much an organizer of African Americans serving and leadership positions,
Speaker 2: mostly elected, but and and and through journalism, through uh
Speaker 2: uh career, political so on and so forth, with a
Speaker 2: very strong strong pro israeli UH sort of positioned uh.
Speaker 2: I don't know that I've ever heard them say that
Speaker 2: Net and Yahoo could do wrong any wrong I'm not
Speaker 2: sure that I have ever had an experience with them
Speaker 2: that didn't feel like a transaction. But I can't speak
Speaker 2: to you know, this organization, the for the for that,
Speaker 2: that that that you mentioned.
Speaker 5: In the AD. I don't, I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't know them, but I know at least I
Speaker 2: think Bakari shared with us that there were people who
Speaker 2: give input. Maybe uh, Angel may be a better Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm not better, and that's why I wanted Becari to
Speaker 1: get to it. So I'm sorry that we had a
Speaker 1: technical issue. I think it's just computer.
Speaker 7: I went, oh, yeah, yeah, So I know Darius very well.
Speaker 7: I went on the APAC funded trip maybe like twelve
Speaker 7: years ago. I had a lot of curiosities around what
Speaker 7: was happening in the Middle East. Obviously I'd done a
Speaker 7: lot of reading of it, you know, books and articles,
Speaker 7: and so I don't think I had the sophistication at
Speaker 7: the time to understand the influence that APAC had, But
Speaker 7: when I got to Israel, I certainly did. Uh And
Speaker 7: it was clear to me from the time I set
Speaker 7: foot on ground that the Palestinians were tantamounts of black people.
Speaker 7: That was the that felt analogous to me, they did
Speaker 7: provide a day or a part of the schedule in
Speaker 7: our day to hear directly from a Palestinian representative who
Speaker 7: shared their experience. I know Darius, I met him before
Speaker 7: I went on the trip, and yeah, Darius, he is
Speaker 7: a politician. He or a you know, a political operative.
Speaker 7: He worked for uh cassim Read for a while in Atlanta.
Speaker 7: I mean, Darius would would very likely come on the
Speaker 7: show and answer difficult questions if that were ever an
Speaker 7: opportunity made to him. Might be good to have both
Speaker 7: of you guys on together. So I don't want to
Speaker 7: speak for Darius because I haven't talked to him in
Speaker 7: probably ten years or so, but just in terms of
Speaker 7: going on this APAC trip, it was definitely revealing to me.
Speaker 7: I don't think I fit the mode of who they
Speaker 7: wanted to indoctrinate with APAC talking points, but I did
Speaker 7: definitely see people who were very politically ambitious be very
Speaker 7: willing to engage them on a very intimate level. That's
Speaker 7: not what I was there to do, and I had
Speaker 7: no such interest in carrying their water for them afterwards.
Speaker 7: I really was there out of intellectual curiosity and haven't
Speaker 7: had much dealings with them since SO just wanted to share.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought it would be good again to just
Speaker 1: draw the distinction between a PAC and this other group,
Speaker 1: National Black Empowerment Council that now has National Black Empowerment
Speaker 1: Action Fund. I believe Bacari might be joined US now,
Speaker 1: but I don't have any dealings with them. But I
Speaker 1: was very interested.
Speaker 6: In the trip I went.
Speaker 1: Excuse me, I went on a congressional delegation trip with staff.
Speaker 6: I did not go on Darius.
Speaker 1: Yes An a pack congressional delegation trip where I got
Speaker 1: kicked off the mailing list because I cussed them out
Speaker 1: at the end of the trip.
Speaker 6: So I just want to be very clear, this was
Speaker 6: not me going. I did not, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't have any dealings with National Black Empowerment Council
Speaker 1: or National Black Empowerment Action Fund, And so when I
Speaker 1: pivoted to be after Maurice talks, it was so that
Speaker 1: we could get somebody who has had dealings specifically with
Speaker 1: that organization.
Speaker 7: Three of us went to a PAC on an APAC trip,
Speaker 7: two of us went on derress So, Bacari and I
Speaker 7: went on Darius Angela went on the Coldell and just
Speaker 7: so are listeners and audience. No, the coressional staffers go
Speaker 7: on these all the time. It wasn't like it was
Speaker 7: a special thing that Angelo into Israel and just Israel,
Speaker 7: like staffords go to China, staff like, this is a
Speaker 7: that happens.
Speaker 6: I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: To South America. But but Bakari, what what again? I
Speaker 1: want to make sure I'm drawing the distinction. There's a
Speaker 1: PAC and then there's the National Black Empowerment Council National.
Speaker 6: God damn it. Sorry, y'all, we just lost Bakari again.
Speaker 6: You know what. Maybe it's the Lord, maybe.
Speaker 1: It's but I just I was deeply curious about this
Speaker 1: tim you know, tapping into some of the things that
Speaker 1: you have stretched us on. It was it's an opportunity
Speaker 1: where there's some tension, and I want to hear the
Speaker 1: other perspective, because Bakari's had specific interaction with this organization,
Speaker 1: so MO it wasn't to like gotcha. It was like,
Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, this is my experience with this group,
Speaker 1: this is the text I got. These are the things
Speaker 1: they're saying, you know, against Mom Dannie, Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 3: And the other thing is like, because we all are
Speaker 3: involved in politics and there's a level of nuanced and
Speaker 3: political sophistication that I think we could have a so
Speaker 3: we could have like the real conversation.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so like.
Speaker 3: This organization in the final day, it's like, you know,
Speaker 3: silly season, final days, that's when you put everything out.
Speaker 3: Was able to buy urban radio, was able to flood
Speaker 3: every black voter with mail text was like, was able
Speaker 3: to flood every black.
Speaker 4: Voter with digital.
Speaker 3: And the messages have nothing to do with Israel, right,
Speaker 3: The same tactics use against summer Ly, the same tactics
Speaker 3: use against Corey Bush, the same tactics use against Jamal Bowman.
Speaker 3: The messages have nothing nothing to do with Israel or
Speaker 3: the actual intent of the donors right, which is to
Speaker 3: prevent progressives from governing in Congress or any place else.
Speaker 3: But the backers are aligned with the right wing agenda
Speaker 3: of Israel and the right wing agenda of the United States. Right,
Speaker 3: and that's what is happening, right, And so you know,
Speaker 3: I don't know Darius. I'm sure he's a fine and
Speaker 3: decent person to his family and to the people that
Speaker 3: know him. And we need to have a structural analysis
Speaker 3: of what's actually happening here. When you know that mail
Speaker 3: comes in and what is the purpose of it, you know,
Speaker 3: and so we could you know, I think, be able
Speaker 3: to like talk about individuals or relationships to them, whether
Speaker 3: or not we think they're good people or not, but
Speaker 3: also have the structural conversation of what's actually happening structurally well,
Speaker 3: And I.
Speaker 1: Think that's what made me curious about it and why
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about it with Bakari two, who's
Speaker 1: done who engages with this group, Because what's curious to
Speaker 1: me is when you go to their website and you
Speaker 1: go to like their action fund Instagram page, you go
Speaker 1: to their the Council's page, there's not anything that says
Speaker 1: that they're doing anything by and for a pack or
Speaker 1: with a pack. It has a very particular black bent.
Speaker 1: Now that said, we know that there are shadow organizations
Speaker 1: propped up all the time that do some of the
Speaker 1: same work. What I'm curious about is from someone who's
Speaker 1: a colleague and family, does you know what his involvement
Speaker 1: is and what his experience has been with this group
Speaker 1: because sometimes I and I think I'm especially tender right now,
Speaker 1: I'm the most defensive of this bunch because I see
Speaker 1: what people say about us. We're democratic shields there were
Speaker 1: by Republicans were and it's all of this who paid
Speaker 1: you to say this kind of thing? And it's like,
Speaker 1: what if that's not the case, And is there a
Speaker 1: way to get to a point of understanding despite the
Speaker 1: fact that I from the mailers I saw that you
Speaker 1: put up in the text that you put up that
Speaker 1: you receive from them is ridiculous.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I want to know, yes, And I think, yeah,
Speaker 3: there's levels of news that we could hold around it.
Speaker 3: And like, I appreciate this conversation because we often talk
Speaker 3: in black and right white, and we often talk and
Speaker 3: like all right, and you know who's who's a shill
Speaker 3: and who's actually for the people, and we all know that.
Speaker 3: In fact, like there's all types of levels of nuance,
Speaker 3: and I think we could we could kind of hold
Speaker 3: some of the nuances and also not get lost in
Speaker 3: the nuance and be able to say, yeah, I'm opposed
Speaker 3: to APAX agenda and their commitment to the war of
Speaker 3: genocide against the Palestinian people. And bb net in Yahoo
Speaker 3: and his like this is not me saying it, this
Speaker 3: is like most observers racist authoritarian government, and he's not
Speaker 3: even the most racist in his government and a PAC
Speaker 3: for sure, for sure, for sure is the American lobby
Speaker 3: for all that, right for sure. So and if they're
Speaker 3: they happen to be there, happen to be Black people
Speaker 3: who I might share a bear with or might share
Speaker 3: community with, that are aligned with that, I'm still opposed
Speaker 3: to them, right like that, I mean, at the end
Speaker 3: of the day, Like you could be as black as
Speaker 3: anybody else and have a wrong point of view and
Speaker 3: it doesn't make you less black, but it does make
Speaker 3: your point of view wrong, at least from my perspective,
Speaker 3: you know. And so I think we could, I think
Speaker 3: we could hold that and like it's to me, it's
Speaker 3: the same conversation with black conservatives. There's a huge difference
Speaker 3: between people who love black people who have conservative point
Speaker 3: of views and people who their main source of income
Speaker 3: is saying whatever pleases the white conservative audience online, right, Like,
Speaker 3: that's just a different and we should be able to
Speaker 3: talk about those things. Like I share community with tons
Speaker 3: of black people who have a different point of view
Speaker 3: than me, and I recognize that that person does love
Speaker 3: life people at the end of the day. And there's
Speaker 3: people who I can't see their love for black people
Speaker 3: they share the same black skin, but they're operating differently,
Speaker 3: and and like we got to be able to talk
Speaker 3: about these things right, like, yes, there is difference, and
Speaker 3: we don't we don't need uniformity in our community. And
Speaker 3: there's a you know, there's this, there's this like, well,
Speaker 3: I'm not I'm not trying to you know, get in
Speaker 3: anybody's bag or I'm not trying to knock anybody's hustle.
Speaker 4: I think there's some hustles we should not.
Speaker 7: Well, we're running a bit out of time, and I
Speaker 7: think Bacari is coming back, and I know that you
Speaker 7: have a flight that you're trying to catch. But I
Speaker 7: just want to say, out of fairness, you know, it's
Speaker 7: one thing for you to post on social media, but
Speaker 7: I just want to be really responsible with our platform.
Speaker 7: We're talking about someone that we did not reach out
Speaker 7: to to get a statement from him, to get his position.
Speaker 7: I have not talked to Darius. I think the last
Speaker 7: time was like maybe years ago. I might have sent
Speaker 7: him a happy birthday text. So none of this is
Speaker 7: rooted in a conversation. I certainly didn't do any investigative
Speaker 7: background check into this group. We're just going based off
Speaker 7: what you said. So I think, just to be responsible
Speaker 7: to him and his partner and this organization, we should
Speaker 7: be really clear that this was just based on a
Speaker 7: social media post that you made. It would make sense
Speaker 7: to me to offer Darius the opportunity to speak for
Speaker 7: himself and come on and answer questions himself about what
Speaker 7: their platform stands for, what their affiliation with APAK is,
Speaker 7: who funds them, If he's willing to have that conversation,
Speaker 7: I know I would certainly be willing to ask those
Speaker 7: questions just in being enherent.
Speaker 4: And I think it's bigger than anyone individual, and certainly
Speaker 4: bigger than that brother.
Speaker 7: And I've never met him well since we showed his
Speaker 7: picture and all of that. Like, I just I think
Speaker 7: we have to at least acknowledge that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we played. We played the social media video.
Speaker 1: And again, I'm so sorry y'all that we are having
Speaker 1: some technical difficult difficulties with Kari. Butkari has firsthand experience
Speaker 1: with the National Black Empowerment Council, and so uh he
Speaker 1: at least would be able to speak to what this
Speaker 1: organization does. It is incorporated, it is organized Jiron Smith,
Speaker 1: who is a friend of mine, but who works in
Speaker 1: the Trump administration, is a lobbyist or has been a
Speaker 1: lobbyist for them, so they do have some organizational structure.
Speaker 1: The Action Fund is where he lobbied actually, and the
Speaker 1: Empowerment Council. Maybe Bakari can answer it now that he's on.
Speaker 6: That would be crazy difficult, My God, Jesus help us.
Speaker 7: Okay, go ahead, talk about your experience with black empowerment,
Speaker 7: can you hear me?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 8: So first of all, yeah, First of all, I think
Speaker 8: you have to be very cautious about calling black people
Speaker 8: bought and paid for.
Speaker 5: I mean, that's first.
Speaker 8: I think that Darius is somebody I know very well
Speaker 8: who's done great work. And I'm just always very cautious
Speaker 8: about castigating people like that, particularly when you don't have
Speaker 8: that intimate of personal knowledge with them. It's an indictment
Speaker 8: on one's character. But even more importantly, what they're doing now,
Speaker 8: regardless of the consternation that people have about apat the
Speaker 8: work that they're doing now. The NBEC, the National Black
Speaker 8: Economic Alliance or counsel, I mean, the founders, the leadership
Speaker 8: of that group. They actually are business people in our
Speaker 8: community trying to meet people where they are, and they
Speaker 8: actually had great success last night. I mean, if you
Speaker 8: look at the fact that they were influential and Andre
Speaker 8: Dickens influential and Mary Sheffield influential in the mayor of Buffalo,
Speaker 8: you saw that they were actually doing the work.
Speaker 5: And I think the listen.
Speaker 8: I think at the end of the day, the organizations
Speaker 8: who have, whether or not it's from corporate America or
Speaker 8: grassroots particularly interests of trying to get black folk collected,
Speaker 8: probably need to have more conversations than not. And so
Speaker 8: I'm sorry about my technical difficulty, but I also had
Speaker 8: to let people know that I know, I know Darius
Speaker 8: extremely well, and I just I take a back at
Speaker 8: the Bought notion and your your criticisms of founding or
Speaker 8: who people are are are very you know that they're fine.
Speaker 8: I wouldn't hold you to account for any of your
Speaker 8: personal opinions. But also let's look at the fact that
Speaker 8: they won some races last night, and they were in
Speaker 8: places where we're able to make history. And so whether
Speaker 8: or not it's a group of people who are business
Speaker 8: folk or grassroots folk, if you're trying to get black
Speaker 8: people elected throughout the country, I think it's something that's noble.
Speaker 7: I know if they're affiliated directly or funded by APAK.
Speaker 5: But I'm not.
Speaker 8: I don't they're not affiliated directly. I'm pretty sure that
Speaker 8: there are some donors who donate to a PACK and
Speaker 8: the National Black Economic Council. I wouldn't say that those
Speaker 8: things are are are, you know, diametrically opposed. But I
Speaker 8: can also say that people there are people in APAC
Speaker 8: who have the similar disdain to Bbing then Yahoo that
Speaker 8: others around this panel may have. I mean, but in
Speaker 8: regards to the individuals and the group I am, it's
Speaker 8: a it's a group of professional black folks.
Speaker 5: That's who NBEC is. I don't.
Speaker 8: I'm not with them. I'm not a part of them,
Speaker 8: but that's who they are. I mean, you actually have
Speaker 8: HBCU presidents that are on there, and so I just
Speaker 8: can't sit here and throw the whole organization out. When
Speaker 8: last night, as I keep saying last night, Tiffany, I'm sorry,
Speaker 8: but when this week they they helped lay the foundation
Speaker 8: and maybe not not solely, but with other grassroots organization
Speaker 8: to get people elected.
Speaker 2: It sounds like I always love when we can qualify that,
Speaker 2: when we can qualify who won who in an election.
Speaker 5: I always find it fascinating. Yeah, I hate that.
Speaker 8: I hate that they are supported. They supported people who won.
Speaker 8: Of course they didn't win an election. Car.
Speaker 6: Have you had any experience with them or the Action Fund?
Speaker 5: I mean I know them extremely well. Yeah, like I
Speaker 5: we're friends.
Speaker 1: I try to make sure I light on you while
Speaker 1: your internet didn't work. That's why I'm asking it, because
Speaker 1: I know I.
Speaker 8: Don't I don't do. Uh No, I'm not a I'm
Speaker 8: not a founder or a member or anything. But I'm
Speaker 8: friends with all of them. I mean for the most part.
Speaker 8: I mean I ain't to sit here and say I'm
Speaker 8: not friends with folks.
Speaker 1: Was everybody affiliated that you know? Have they participated in
Speaker 1: the APAC trips?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 5: I don't know the answer.
Speaker 8: Okay, that's what I got to realize. I went on
Speaker 8: the first. I went on the first a Pac trip.
Speaker 8: And so when we're talking about Darius's trips, I was
Speaker 8: I was one of the people who were the first.
Speaker 6: Darius true, because they've been doing Codell's for years.
Speaker 8: Well the first there, yes, the first trip that was
Speaker 8: that that Darius And actually I might have gone before
Speaker 8: Darius actually became a part of the group. So I'm
Speaker 8: not sure. And I can't answer the question of whether
Speaker 8: or not people were involved in that. But what I
Speaker 8: can say is I think that there was a specific
Speaker 8: race in New York and the mayor's race that people
Speaker 8: got sideways over, and I think that there are other
Speaker 8: races around the country that you'd be surprised where we
Speaker 8: are more similar than not.
Speaker 6: Do you know? This is my last question because I understand, well,
Speaker 6: I don't know.
Speaker 5: I just told you went out.
Speaker 6: I'm annoyed.
Speaker 4: I just told you.
Speaker 5: I just told you. Called Darius and get them on
Speaker 5: the show. That's what I just said.
Speaker 6: Sip agrees with you.
Speaker 1: But here's my question, because I am I'm curious about this,
Speaker 1: and you can answer it. You could say no comment,
Speaker 1: I'm wait till Darius comes on the show. I'll defer
Speaker 1: to you and Tip on that question. But here's my question.
Speaker 1: Why if their focus is electing black candidates, lifting up
Speaker 1: black leaders, what role were they playing in the New
Speaker 1: York mayor's race.
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't think.
Speaker 8: I mean, I'm not going to answer for Darius, but
Speaker 8: I think that there's a direct belief that democratic socialism
Speaker 8: is not best for black folks, and I mean that
Speaker 8: he literally put that on his Instagram.
Speaker 6: Is it because Don's middle name is Kwame.
Speaker 5: I'm pretty sure they've endorsed the black Kwami before.
Speaker 1: I'm just like I was, but they like he black enough.
Speaker 6: He was living in Uganda for seven years.
Speaker 5: But I will tell you this, I can, I just
Speaker 5: tell you all this, man, I didn't.
Speaker 8: I mean, I just I just the choices in New
Speaker 8: York for me personally, were just interesting choices between Eric Adams,
Speaker 8: Andrew Conill and Mandani. And I just think that right now,
Speaker 8: my prayer for Zoran is that he reached out to
Speaker 8: people like Andrew Gillham, Frank Scott, Randall Wolfin, that he
Speaker 8: reached out to people like Andre Dickens, that he reach
Speaker 8: out to people who have gone through that storm, who
Speaker 8: have led major cities and who have come out on
Speaker 8: the other side with some level of success, because we
Speaker 8: need to all hope he successful, because it ain't nothing
Speaker 8: but a bunch of black folks that live up to
Speaker 8: in New York City anyway.
Speaker 4: That's something we all can agree out. The governing.
Speaker 3: But the governing experiment that will be the Mam Donnie
Speaker 3: uh the Mandani administration. We need that, we need that
Speaker 3: experiment to succeed because there's two million black folks that
Speaker 3: live in New York whuld need a safer, more affordable city,
Speaker 3: a city that actually works for us, that takes seriously
Speaker 3: the black agenda.
Speaker 4: And we haven't had that. We have not we have
Speaker 4: not had that.
Speaker 8: The black man running for mayor was was arguably one
Speaker 8: of the worst ones for black folk.
Speaker 4: Again, it's a beautiful, beautiful objection.
Speaker 1: So without objection, and black people have welcomed everybody home.
Speaker 4: MO.
Speaker 6: We kept you way past. I hope we didn't make
Speaker 6: you lose your I'm.
Speaker 5: Sorry, I apologize. I apologize for the disrespect of my system.
Speaker 5: I apologize for the Apple.
Speaker 6: You need to get a new computer immediately.
Speaker 5: All right, well give me send me, send me Apple.
Speaker 6: It's called Apple Pay, by the way.
Speaker 1: But anyway, he appreciates you, Maurice Mitchell from Working Families Party.
Speaker 1: You know, I got some other questions for you, but
Speaker 1: we ran out of time. Uh and Makari, thank you
Speaker 1: for coming back on AOL dial up. I'm sorry that
Speaker 1: your parents picked up your phone and interrupted your connection.
Speaker 6: Thank you all so much.
Speaker 5: Welcome home, welcome home, Welcome home, y'all.
Speaker 1: Native Lamb is a production of iHeartRadio and partnership with
Speaker 1: reisent Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
Speaker 1: favorite shows.