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Speaker 1: Native Lampod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with

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Speaker 1: Reizent Choice Media.

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Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.

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Speaker 1: Home, y'all, this is Native Lampod and we are here

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Speaker 1: for our mini pod. Joining us today is the National

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Speaker 1: director for Working Families Party. Working Families had a really

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Speaker 1: big week this week. We're gonna talk to Maurice Mitchell

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Speaker 1: about the historic wins that they saw and some other

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Speaker 1: things around our politics. So more Welcome to Native Lampod again,

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Speaker 1: good brother, Yes.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Oh, it's good to be a repeat visitor to

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Speaker 3: the to the pod, and it's really good to be

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Speaker 3: with y'all you.

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Speaker 2: Too, brother. Welcome a big week indeed, and not just

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Speaker 2: in the New York State, but really around the country. Man,

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Speaker 2: I'm curious if we could probably kick off the conversation

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Speaker 2: with you going down the list of highs lows, what

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Speaker 2: people are to be watching, paying attention to, and we

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Speaker 2: weren't as a result of this week's elections. Yeah, give

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Speaker 2: us the rundown.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's a lot to parts and you know,

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Speaker 3: in some races there's still kind of votes, but you know,

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Speaker 3: as it stands today, you know, we'll talk about New York.

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Speaker 3: But I'm excited by the fact that in New York

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Speaker 3: State we had victories in the city of Albany, the

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Speaker 3: City of Syracuse, the city of Buffalo, And in Albany

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Speaker 3: and Syracuse we have Sharon Owens in Syracuse and we

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Speaker 3: have Darcy a Players in Albany. They would be the

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Speaker 3: first black women ever to hold those seats, right, and

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Speaker 3: so we I mean, it is incredible that we were

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Speaker 3: able to build a coalition around these black women. And

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Speaker 3: the same money that was fighting us in New York

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Speaker 3: City was fighting us in these races, right, And they

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Speaker 3: represent the same politics, focusing like a laser on affordability,

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Speaker 3: wanting to make the city work for working people.

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Speaker 4: So I'm excited about that. I'm also excited by the

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Speaker 4: fact that.

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Speaker 3: You know, in in Georgia, a black woman was able

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Speaker 3: to want run and win statewide, right, and we need

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Speaker 3: to put a spotlight on that seat because you know,

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Speaker 3: she was able to build a coalition that included clearly

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Speaker 3: a lot of Republicans because she molliwopped her opponent. That's

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Speaker 3: that's a critical win. And we know we endorsed in

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Speaker 3: that race, and we're really proud of her. You know,

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Speaker 3: in Detroit, a brother, Denzel mccampbell. Keep an eye on him.

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Speaker 3: He ran as an outsider in city council. We endorsed him,

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Speaker 3: We supported him from the very beginning. He's going to

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Speaker 3: be sitting on city council in Detroit, you know. And

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Speaker 3: then there's these these very particular races that are very

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Speaker 3: close to my heart because I build the Working Families Party.

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Speaker 3: These are people who ran in the general election not

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Speaker 3: as a Democrat against the Democrat and the Republican, as

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Speaker 3: an independent Working fan These party person and they and

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Speaker 3: they were able to actually win.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 3: And so we we have a case in in New York,

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Speaker 3: in New York, uh, in Newburgh, in Newport, New York

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Speaker 3: City Council Ta Meeka Stewart, a black woman who ran

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Speaker 3: as an independent under the Working Families Party. She will

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Speaker 3: be sitting and governing in Onondaga County, that's the county

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Speaker 3: where Syracuse is in. There will be a county legislator

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Speaker 3: Nicole Watts, a black woman who ran and won in

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Speaker 3: this election as an independent Working Families Party person. And

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Speaker 3: then in Bridgeport, Connecticut, Uh, we we had a we

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Speaker 3: had a victory. Uh actually in Hartford, sorry, Hertford, Connecticut.

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Speaker 3: We had a victory with with Chante Browdie. She's gonna

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Speaker 3: be sitting at the Hartford Board of Education as an

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Speaker 3: independent WFP candidate, where the Democrats in that in that election,

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Speaker 3: the Democrats in the Board of Education all joined together

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Speaker 3: to make sure that she could lead the Board of

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Speaker 3: Education as a WP independent. So you know, those are

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Speaker 3: things that we're not going to hear because the story

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Speaker 3: understandably has been about Zoramm Donnie in New York, and

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Speaker 3: we could talk a lot about that. But in terms

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Speaker 3: of like independent black politics and power a black first

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Speaker 3: and doing it on our terms, there's a lot happening

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Speaker 3: around the country.

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Speaker 2: That's good.

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Speaker 5: That's good.

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Speaker 6: Can I help out?

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Speaker 7: I'll ask the question. Thanks for getting us, Marie. I

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Speaker 7: want to read you something. There was an article in

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Speaker 7: Political this week, an interview with Steve Bannon, who is

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Speaker 7: of course Trump's former strategist White House Strategists, and he

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Speaker 7: has a warning for Republicans and he named checks. Yeah,

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Speaker 7: not specifically, but the WSP. He says, forget the Republican

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Speaker 7: Party in New York that's a joke, but the National

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Speaker 7: Republican Party and some of the artist strategists do not

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Speaker 7: realize the power of the Working Families Party and the

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Speaker 7: Democratic Socialists of America for ground game. Modern politics is

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Speaker 7: now about engaging low propensity voters, and they clearly turn

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Speaker 7: them out tonight. And this kind of and this is

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Speaker 7: kind of the Trump model. This is very serious.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 7: Unfortunately the reporter does not fact check him. This certainly

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Speaker 7: is not the Trump model. Trump is copying that model

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Speaker 7: from what black folks have done for decades. But a

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Speaker 7: lot of our audience, quite frankly, is not familiar. They're

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Speaker 7: not familiar with you, they're not familiar with Working Families Party.

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Speaker 7: They don't know that this exists. So some people are

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Speaker 7: tuning in saying, who is this? Why do I care

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Speaker 7: about those races and states where I don't live? Why

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Speaker 7: should I care? So, how can they plug in? And

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Speaker 7: what's your like thirty second elevator pitch to them, especially

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Speaker 7: since you've fallen on the radar, the party has fallen

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Speaker 7: on the radar of such right wing conservative extremists like

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Speaker 7: Steve Bannon.

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Speaker 4: Well, you'll know me by my enemies.

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Speaker 3: And so the Working Families the Working Family Party was

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Speaker 3: born in a moment in the late nineties when the

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Speaker 3: Democratic Party decided to get in bed with wall Street.

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Speaker 3: And that's the same Democratic Party that passed the ninety

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Speaker 3: four crime Bill. That's the same Democratic Party that supported

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Speaker 3: welfare reform quote unquote welfare reform that made it harder

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Speaker 3: for her for a working class and poor people to

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Speaker 3: access to access those services, and you know, using a

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Speaker 3: lot of racist tropes to do that. And at that time,

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Speaker 3: the Working Families Party was born because many many people

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Speaker 3: felt that the Democrats were portraying the base and the base,

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Speaker 3: the heart of the Democratic Party base has historically been

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Speaker 3: the black community, specifically working class black people. And so

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Speaker 3: this multiracial coalition of grassroots organizations and labor institutions came

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Speaker 3: together that was more than twenty five years ago. And

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Speaker 3: what we do is we build from the grass roots up.

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Speaker 3: We recruit candidates that otherwise wouldn't run because they don't

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Speaker 3: have access to money, educators, organizers, folks in unions, everyday people,

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Speaker 3: and we primarily focus on the local level school boards,

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Speaker 3: city council. That's the pipeline to people learn how to govern.

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Speaker 3: And then eventually, like Summerly for example, that cut her

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Speaker 3: teeth in the state legislature and now is in Congress.

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Speaker 3: Eventually you could develop those skills of governing on the

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Speaker 3: local level and find yourself in Congress. It's that slow, steady,

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Speaker 3: consistent work that is going to build a movement that

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Speaker 3: could actually sustain victories for our people instead of sort

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Speaker 3: of flashing the pan politics and theatrics. Look, anything that

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Speaker 3: you want done, you take. Anything worth doing is going

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Speaker 3: to take some work. And we've done the work to

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Speaker 3: build a pathway for independent politics. I'd be remiss if

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Speaker 3: I didn't bring up Attorney General Tis James. She entered

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Speaker 3: politics through the Working Families Party party in two and

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Speaker 3: three because the Democratic Party didn't know what to do

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Speaker 3: with the independent black woman. But we did, and she

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Speaker 3: ran as an independent Working Families person in city council

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Speaker 3: in Brooklyn, and that's how she started. And eventually, once

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Speaker 3: she got in you can't be in them to join them,

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Speaker 3: the Democrats embraced her, and she rolls all the way

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Speaker 3: to the top and was able to hold Donald Trump accountable.

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Speaker 4: So it's those politics.

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Speaker 3: If you're really serious about independent politics, if you're serious

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Speaker 3: about black people governing, then you have to do the

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Speaker 3: hard work of truly governing, but also of recruiting the

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Speaker 3: hundreds and hundreds or thousands of volunteers to develop the

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Speaker 3: skills to figure out how to use people power in

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Speaker 3: order to get somebody elected and push back against the billionaires.

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Speaker 3: Right Zorn's campaigns is a perfect example. They spent forty

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Speaker 3: million dollars against him and they lost. They completely collapsed.

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Speaker 3: Because we have the people power, but that people power

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Speaker 3: doesn't come overnight. You have to assiduously build the people power.

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Speaker 3: You need to be in the community. You need to

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Speaker 3: actually be organizing year round, something that unfortunately both parties

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Speaker 3: have either forgotten or are never interested in doing so.

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Speaker 2: Then, how do you just just to follow up quickly

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Speaker 2: on Tiffany's question, for people who are not in places

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Speaker 2: where there is an active formed working families party but

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Speaker 2: are really upset at being quote taken for granted or

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Speaker 2: not represented, not seeing the afterthought, where could they go?

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Speaker 2: Because I almost see it as somewhat of a bit

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Speaker 2: of a bargain, right, if you want us, you got

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Speaker 2: to come with what you're going to get us, and

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Speaker 2: we'll bargain with you about where we then put our support.

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Speaker 2: Our votes are, our time, attention, volunteery, so on and

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Speaker 2: so forth. So how do you equip other places of

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Speaker 2: the communities with that kind of power.

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Speaker 3: Sure, So the Working Families Party isn't an organization that

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Speaker 3: comes into a community. The Working Families Party is built

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Speaker 3: in each community from the ground up. So if people

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Speaker 3: are interested, did I would ask them just go to

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Speaker 3: our website and see if there is a chapter or

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Speaker 3: if there's an organizing committee in their state, and if not,

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Speaker 3: and they're and they're serious, they should reach out to

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Speaker 3: us and and we are down to talk.

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Speaker 4: Listen.

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Speaker 3: The the interest is really intense about building the WFP,

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Speaker 3: and we're interested in building WFP everywhere. The other thing

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Speaker 3: is that we have volunteer opportunities for people even in

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Speaker 3: the places where we don't have staff or we don't

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Speaker 3: have a chapter and people. We support people everywhere to

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Speaker 3: build basically like violent what we call. You know, we

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Speaker 3: don't have, uh, the the elephant or the donkey like

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Speaker 3: the Democrats or the Republicans. We have the wolf and

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Speaker 3: so we have our wolf packs and we support them

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Speaker 3: in places where we don't have staff. And those those

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Speaker 3: wolf pasts, they were they were getting down in this election,

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Speaker 3: all across the country doing work both in their in

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Speaker 3: their communities and also supporting candidates around the country, and

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Speaker 3: so anybody who's listening to this and they're like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I believe that people have been taken for granted by

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Speaker 3: the Democrats. I understand that the Republicans are racist, I

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Speaker 3: understand that they are problematic, but if we continue doing

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Speaker 3: what we've been doing, we're going to get the same results.

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Speaker 3: The WFP is a viable option for people who want

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Speaker 3: to do politics different but also do politics in a

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Speaker 3: way that's effective and strategic. And yeah, we invite anybody to,

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Speaker 3: you know, figure out how they could get down with us,

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Speaker 3: and we try to make it as easy as possible

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Speaker 3: based on what level of commitment people have.

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Speaker 6: Well, I want to ask you about Detroit.

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Speaker 1: When you spoke earlier, you mentioned a city council race

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Speaker 1: that you are really excited about. Who did Working Families

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Speaker 1: Party support in the mayoral race in Detroit?

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Speaker 3: Okay, so we didn't endorse in the mayoral race. We

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Speaker 3: often focus on the places that we think we could

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Speaker 3: have the most impact. I think, you know, we're pleased

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Speaker 3: with the outcome of the mayoral race, but we're fairly

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Speaker 3: new in Detroit, and so at the stage and the

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Speaker 3: level of capacity that we have, we focused on two

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Speaker 3: city council races where we felt like we could have

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Speaker 3: the most impact, and that was Denzil mccampbell and Gabriella

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Speaker 3: Santiago Romero, who is currently on the city council. And

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Speaker 3: so there's times where we what we don't like to

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Speaker 3: do is just kind of slap our logo on a

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Speaker 3: particular race or just give a paper endorsement. We like

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Speaker 3: to be really hands on and provide real capacity and

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Speaker 3: be the difference maker and the races that we're in

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Speaker 3: and in those races we had a deep relationship, we

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Speaker 3: were able to make a real difference, play a role

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Speaker 3: on the independent side and also inside of the campaign.

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Speaker 3: And you know, we're always making choices like that with

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Speaker 3: our capacity, with our brand, with our endorsement, how we

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Speaker 3: can have the most impact. And so in Detroit, that's

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Speaker 3: how we.

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Speaker 1: Show that when you all are deciding, and I know,

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Speaker 1: especially for you, we talk about being a first or

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Speaker 1: the only and being you know black in spaces where

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Speaker 1: we have you know, critical influence. How do you all

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Speaker 1: thread the needle when there's a black elected official, you know,

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Speaker 1: at the top of the ticket and you're being faced with, oh,

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Speaker 1: there's this particular white opponent, maybe you agree with the

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Speaker 1: black elected official.

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Speaker 6: We just had this conversation on our main show as well.

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Speaker 1: But sixty seventy eighty percent of the time, but this

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Speaker 1: white person with no political experience is saying that they're

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Speaker 1: gonna ride with y'all.

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Speaker 6: Tell the wheels fall off. How do you make that decision?

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Speaker 1: And talk about the personal difficulty you encounter if you

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Speaker 1: have any in making those types of decisions.

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Speaker 4: Sure, so, I'm very careful.

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Speaker 3: As a black man and as a black person in politics,

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Speaker 3: I'm very careful and very precise as it relates to

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Speaker 3: offering public critiques of black elected officials, challenging black elected officials,

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Speaker 3: and I've done, but I am very careful about it

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Speaker 3: because sometimes those critiques could, when.

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Speaker 4: In bad faith, could.

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Speaker 3: Could become basically venues for anti blackness, which doesn't serve

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Speaker 3: the broader agenda of black politics. And so if you

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Speaker 3: hear me critique a black elected official, it has been

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Speaker 3: very very considered, right, I would say, in general, when

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Speaker 3: it comes to all of our endorsements, there isn't a

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Speaker 3: WP endorsement that doesn't go through a very rigorous process

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Speaker 3: that considers a number of things, and there isn't a

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Speaker 3: WOP endorsement that doesn't fundamentally go through a lot of

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Speaker 3: vetting with grass roots organizations, labor institutions, and movement organizations

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Speaker 3: on the ground in any particular city or state. And

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Speaker 3: there isn't a organizing committee which is one of the

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Speaker 3: bodies where we deliberate, or a state committee that where

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Speaker 3: we make these decisions, where there isn't a significant presence

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Speaker 3: of black folks who have been committed to black power,

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Speaker 3: and oftentimes those conversations happen. It was in real time

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Speaker 3: where we talk about racial justice, we talk about what

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Speaker 3: it means to challenge sitting black elected official, where we

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Speaker 3: talk about how being an elective official is very different

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Speaker 3: for black people than for white people, where we factor

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Speaker 3: in things like experience, and what gives me the confidence

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Speaker 3: to support we on Tuesday we have more than seven

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Speaker 3: hundred candidates on the ballot. It gives me the confidence

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Speaker 3: to support all of our endorsements is I know that

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Speaker 3: that process was done in a very rigorous way. And

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Speaker 3: so that's how I hold that tension both personally because

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Speaker 3: I am the party leader and I represent the party.

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Speaker 3: I make sure that the things I communicate there's always

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Speaker 3: a racial justice lens, and there's always a lens around

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Speaker 3: black politics. And I've demured from taking shots at sitting

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Speaker 3: black elected officials because of the larger framing, and I

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Speaker 3: didn't feel like there's a way to call that question

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Speaker 3: that wouldn't add to a anti black pylon, even if

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Speaker 3: there was some validity to that critique. And then I've

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Speaker 3: also taken those those those shots when I thought it

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Speaker 3: was really important to create some contrast between the independent

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Speaker 3: black politics that is rooted in the grassroots and the frankly,

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Speaker 3: the bought and paid for black politics of the establishment.

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Speaker 5: Let me ask it.

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Speaker 8: Let me ask you a question, because one of the

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Speaker 8: things that I've been I bring a slightly different perspective

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Speaker 8: because I come from like the deep rural South, and

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Speaker 8: I've noticed that there's some political policies like school choice,

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Speaker 8: for example, which works in major cities, but that doesn't

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Speaker 8: necessarily work in rural areas. So my question is political

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Speaker 8: movements like WFP, like, how how do you replicate the

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Speaker 8: involvement you all have because we have a Working Families

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Speaker 8: Party here, but it's by no and it's they're alsome.

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Speaker 8: I know them all, but it's not nearly as robust

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Speaker 8: as it is in major cities, and I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 8: it's the same in some other areas that we were

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Speaker 8: looking at throughout the South. How do you replicate that

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Speaker 8: robust effort in urban areas compared to rural areas where

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Speaker 8: I dare I say the overarching majority of black folk

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Speaker 8: live in the pool rural South.

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Speaker 4: That's right, That's right. Yeah, that's a great question, bro.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think you know, we had a so

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Speaker 3: we were able to leverage fusion voting in New York, Connecticut, Oregon,

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Speaker 3: and in South Carolina up until so we actually had

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Speaker 3: until until very recently when the Republicans outlawed fusion voting

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Speaker 3: because I think they were they were frightened of of

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Speaker 3: what we could build using fusion voting. But that's a

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Speaker 3: whole other conversation. But that I approached that the way

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Speaker 3: that we approach at the Working Families Party is, you know,

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Speaker 3: there's an amazing sister, Britney Whaley, who leads our Southeast

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Speaker 3: work and is based in Atlanta and has built the

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Speaker 3: Georgia Working Families Party and over the next few years

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Speaker 3: is really investing in a Southern strategy for independent black

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Speaker 3: politics that is going to look very different than the

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Speaker 3: work that we did in New York over the past

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Speaker 3: few years, right, And so it's not so much about replicating, right,

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Speaker 3: because I would never replicate the model of the New

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Speaker 3: York Party with what we're doing in Georgia and what

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Speaker 3: we're doing actually around the South, because a lot of

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Speaker 3: that is based on the particularities of the South, the

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Speaker 3: particularities of what it means to build black political power

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Speaker 3: in a red state, which is just vastly different, right.

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Speaker 3: And so one of the things that we always try

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Speaker 3: to do is to be nimble so that the character

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Speaker 3: of that state or that locality could really embody what

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Speaker 3: the WFP looks like. And I think that's the lesson

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Speaker 3: from from today. From today and from election, a lot

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Speaker 3: of people are talking about Zora Mamdani, and I think

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Speaker 3: that's appropriate and I think there's lessons that we could

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Speaker 3: glean from that. And also Zoron's race is particular to

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Speaker 3: Zoron in New York, So there's both things that are

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Speaker 3: true across the country. Like, I think there's an affordability

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Speaker 3: crisis that is facing working people everywhere, and that's it's

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Speaker 3: a crisis of the affordability crisis is it's not just

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Speaker 3: about economics, it's about dignity. And I think this is

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Speaker 3: one of the reasons why people rebuked the Republicans. I

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Speaker 3: also think there's a broad rebuke of trump Ism everywhere.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, you know, like New York is not the

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Speaker 3: Royal South, and we shouldn't pretend that it is. And

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Speaker 3: you know, the conditions of black people in rural counties

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Speaker 3: in South Carolina or in Georgia, where I recently was

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Speaker 3: aren't the same as the conditions of even black folks

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Speaker 3: in Bedstye or Flatbush. And we do have commonalities. So

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Speaker 3: I think it's kind of like a bolt and the thing.

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Speaker 3: The through line though, is that the basis of independent

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Speaker 3: politics and to prize our independence and to value our

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Speaker 3: political power which has been taken for granted, and to

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Speaker 3: challenge the corporate politics that have captured our politics in general.

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Speaker 3: You know, unfortunately, because our politics are so expensive, elected

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Speaker 3: officials are constantly dialing for dollars, and that means even

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Speaker 3: the elected officials with the best intentions are dragged towards

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Speaker 3: being on phones with very wealthy people and corporate packs

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Speaker 3: in order to fund their elections. And there's something fundamentally

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Speaker 3: wrong with that that leads to a poor outcome, especially

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Speaker 3: for working class and poor Black people, and so we

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Speaker 3: need to build a different type of politics where if

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Speaker 3: I'm a working class Black person in the rural South,

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Speaker 3: I could run and win and I could do so

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Speaker 3: and prize my independence not feel like I have to,

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Speaker 3: you know, do the dance with the corporate donors. And

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Speaker 3: it's something that everybody has to make a decision around.

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Speaker 3: And if we don't build that third space, then you know,

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Speaker 3: we can't. I think we can, in one side, critique

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Speaker 3: people for doing that dance with corporate donors and not

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Speaker 3: build that third space where people could thrive without corporate money.

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Speaker 3: And so that's one of the things that we're trying

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Speaker 3: to build, a third space in politics where principal people

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Speaker 3: could thrive, run and win without that corporate money, without

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Speaker 3: the ad PAC money, or the AI money, or the

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Speaker 3: crypto money, or pharma or the real estate lobby, which

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Speaker 3: is a watch in our politics at general, both the

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Speaker 3: Democratic Party and the Republican Party.

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Speaker 1: Well, you just brought up a pack and you posted

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Speaker 1: a video recently.

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Speaker 6: I want to run that clip.

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Speaker 3: I just got a text from an organization called the

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Speaker 3: National Black Empowerment fund. I just checked the website because

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Speaker 3: I'm kind of a nerd al like to do my

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Speaker 3: due diligence, and went on the about us page, and

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Speaker 3: you know, I see two very official pictures of two

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Speaker 3: very official black men. But it turns out they're anything

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Speaker 3: but official. Those two men are all but and paid

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Speaker 3: for by a pack. Yeah, and the same corporate lobby

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Speaker 3: that has ties with bb net and Yahoo and the

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Speaker 3: ultra far right, authoritarian racist government that has pursued a

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Speaker 3: war against the palest Indian people. Yeah, that APAC. Black

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Speaker 3: Empowerment and the Black Agenda and APAC are like oil

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Speaker 3: and water. My folks told me that you can only

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Speaker 3: serve one master. There's no way you could serve APAC

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Speaker 3: and the billionaires and serve the interests of black people.

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Speaker 4: That just doesn't happen. This is silly season and elections.

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Speaker 3: The people that are supporting Andrew Cuomo, the right wing

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Speaker 3: agenda APAC, they're pulling out all the stops because they're desperate,

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Speaker 3: including creating fake black organizations that claim to have presence

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Speaker 3: in places like New York, in Atlanta and Saint Louis.

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Speaker 3: This is a ploy and we're onto it, and we're

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Speaker 3: more sophisticated in that, so ma.

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Speaker 6: I wanted to play that in part.

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Speaker 1: I will say that I definitely am not an APAX supporter,

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Speaker 1: but I'm curious to know what what y'all relied on

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Speaker 1: to make this video. You called the organization fake, You

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Speaker 1: said that it's paid and bought and paid for by

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Speaker 1: a pack.

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Speaker 6: I just I'm interested to hear your feedback.

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Speaker 1: And then Bakari, I love for you to talk about

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Speaker 1: your experience with the group.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we did, we did our research. There's there's no

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Speaker 3: question that both of those individuals and that organization is

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Speaker 3: supported and funded by the by the same sources that

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Speaker 3: a PAC and its various various political packs are are

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Speaker 3: supported by. And when I say fake, I want to

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Speaker 3: be really clear by what I mean, because I've I've

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Speaker 3: been organizing my entire life. There's a difference between First

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Speaker 3: of all, that's the point of view on their flyers.

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Speaker 3: That's only a point of view that people might or

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Speaker 3: might not have. But there's a difference between a organization

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Speaker 3: that is an authentic black organization that is founded by

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Speaker 3: and rooted in the black community, that has all types

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Speaker 3: of point of view, and I've been organizing in black

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Speaker 3: communities my entire life, and an astroturfh organization that's like

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Speaker 3: built by you know, various interests, and there's tons of

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Speaker 3: AstroTurf organizations taking different positions. This just happens to be

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Speaker 3: a black one that is funded by the those those.

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Speaker 2: Lobbies in this case an So I think he was

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Speaker 2: using AstroTurf and fake interchangeably that you can be real

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Speaker 2: people and still not have any typicals as an organizing organization.

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Speaker 2: So I think that's how I interpreted your use of

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Speaker 2: the word.

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Speaker 6: I understand. I understand Bakari.

437
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna go to Andrew and ask Andrew then

438
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 1: about his experience with this organization.

439
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 6: I said, joke with with Apex.

440
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm because since you answered for Bacari, because I said, Bakari,

441
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 1: can you talk about your experience?

442
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 6: And now, of course, oh I haven't.

443
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:07,239
Speaker 2: I haven't answered my experience yet.

444
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 5: I'd be happy to share that.

445
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: But I wait, Yes, I was asking Bacari to share

446
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: his experience, but I think his computer is frozen, so

447
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 1: you might be able to go ahead.

448
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 2: You want me to answer for you, Bokari, I could

449
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 2: decry it on your behalf.

450
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: I don't know what's happening and is computer may have died. Andrew,

451
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 1: do you want to talk about Well.

452
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,199
Speaker 2: I think I think your goal was to try to

453
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 2: get someone who has had will experience. And basically what

454
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 2: I mean, what I think I heard Bakari share earlier

455
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 2: is he is familiar with the organization, knows Darius. I

456
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 2: know Darius, I think all of us do. Actually who

457
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 2: worked for APAC for a number of years. He's also

458
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 2: someone who interfaced with my campaign when I was running

459
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 2: for governor of the State of Florida, wanting to to

460
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 2: to recruit me to go on a on an APEC

461
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 2: fronded trip to Israel, of which I did not. But

462
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 2: I've been to Israel number of times and as mayor,

463
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 2: had a sister sister city relationship in Ramahasharon, so didn't

464
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 2: really feel the need to. But but Darius is a

465
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 2: very much an organizer of African Americans serving and leadership positions,

466
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 2: mostly elected, but and and and through journalism, through uh

467
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 2: uh career, political so on and so forth, with a

468
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 2: very strong strong pro israeli UH sort of positioned uh.

469
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 2: I don't know that I've ever heard them say that

470
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 2: Net and Yahoo could do wrong any wrong I'm not

471
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 2: sure that I have ever had an experience with them

472
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 2: that didn't feel like a transaction. But I can't speak

473
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 2: to you know, this organization, the for the for that,

474
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 2: that that that you mentioned.

475
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 5: In the AD. I don't, I don't.

476
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 2: I don't know them, but I know at least I

477
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 2: think Bakari shared with us that there were people who

478
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 2: give input. Maybe uh, Angel may be a better Yeah.

479
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 1: I'm not better, and that's why I wanted Becari to

480
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: get to it. So I'm sorry that we had a

481
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: technical issue. I think it's just computer.

482
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 7: I went, oh, yeah, yeah, So I know Darius very well.

483
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 7: I went on the APAC funded trip maybe like twelve

484
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 7: years ago. I had a lot of curiosities around what

485
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 7: was happening in the Middle East. Obviously I'd done a

486
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,360
Speaker 7: lot of reading of it, you know, books and articles,

487
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 7: and so I don't think I had the sophistication at

488
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 7: the time to understand the influence that APAC had, But

489
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 7: when I got to Israel, I certainly did. Uh And

490
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 7: it was clear to me from the time I set

491
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 7: foot on ground that the Palestinians were tantamounts of black people.

492
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 7: That was the that felt analogous to me, they did

493
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 7: provide a day or a part of the schedule in

494
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 7: our day to hear directly from a Palestinian representative who

495
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 7: shared their experience. I know Darius, I met him before

496
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 7: I went on the trip, and yeah, Darius, he is

497
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 7: a politician. He or a you know, a political operative.

498
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 7: He worked for uh cassim Read for a while in Atlanta.

499
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 7: I mean, Darius would would very likely come on the

500
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 7: show and answer difficult questions if that were ever an

501
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 7: opportunity made to him. Might be good to have both

502
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 7: of you guys on together. So I don't want to

503
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 7: speak for Darius because I haven't talked to him in

504
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 7: probably ten years or so, but just in terms of

505
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 7: going on this APAC trip, it was definitely revealing to me.

506
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 7: I don't think I fit the mode of who they

507
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 7: wanted to indoctrinate with APAC talking points, but I did

508
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 7: definitely see people who were very politically ambitious be very

509
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 7: willing to engage them on a very intimate level. That's

510
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 7: not what I was there to do, and I had

511
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 7: no such interest in carrying their water for them afterwards.

512
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 7: I really was there out of intellectual curiosity and haven't

513
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 7: had much dealings with them since SO just wanted to share.

514
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought it would be good again to just

515
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: draw the distinction between a PAC and this other group,

516
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: National Black Empowerment Council that now has National Black Empowerment

517
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: Action Fund. I believe Bacari might be joined US now,

518
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: but I don't have any dealings with them. But I

519
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: was very interested.

520
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 6: In the trip I went.

521
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: Excuse me, I went on a congressional delegation trip with staff.

522
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 6: I did not go on Darius.

523
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: Yes An a pack congressional delegation trip where I got

524
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: kicked off the mailing list because I cussed them out

525
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: at the end of the trip.

526
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 6: So I just want to be very clear, this was

527
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 6: not me going. I did not, I don't.

528
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: I don't have any dealings with National Black Empowerment Council

529
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: or National Black Empowerment Action Fund, And so when I

530
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: pivoted to be after Maurice talks, it was so that

531
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: we could get somebody who has had dealings specifically with

532
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: that organization.

533
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 7: Three of us went to a PAC on an APAC trip,

534
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 7: two of us went on derress So, Bacari and I

535
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,959
Speaker 7: went on Darius Angela went on the Coldell and just

536
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 7: so are listeners and audience. No, the coressional staffers go

537
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 7: on these all the time. It wasn't like it was

538
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,959
Speaker 7: a special thing that Angelo into Israel and just Israel,

539
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 7: like staffords go to China, staff like, this is a

540
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:12,719
Speaker 7: that happens.

541
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 6: I'm sorry.

542
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: To South America. But but Bakari, what what again? I

543
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: want to make sure I'm drawing the distinction. There's a

544
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: PAC and then there's the National Black Empowerment Council National.

545
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 6: God damn it. Sorry, y'all, we just lost Bakari again.

546
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 6: You know what. Maybe it's the Lord, maybe.

547
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: It's but I just I was deeply curious about this

548
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: tim you know, tapping into some of the things that

549
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: you have stretched us on. It was it's an opportunity

550
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: where there's some tension, and I want to hear the

551
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: other perspective, because Bakari's had specific interaction with this organization,

552
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: so MO it wasn't to like gotcha. It was like,

553
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, this is my experience with this group,

554
00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: this is the text I got. These are the things

555
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: they're saying, you know, against Mom Dannie, Yeah, go ahead.

556
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 3: And the other thing is like, because we all are

557
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 3: involved in politics and there's a level of nuanced and

558
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 3: political sophistication that I think we could have a so

559
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 3: we could have like the real conversation.

560
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, so like.

561
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 3: This organization in the final day, it's like, you know,

562
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 3: silly season, final days, that's when you put everything out.

563
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 3: Was able to buy urban radio, was able to flood

564
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 3: every black voter with mail text was like, was able

565
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 3: to flood every black.

566
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 4: Voter with digital.

567
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 3: And the messages have nothing to do with Israel, right,

568
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 3: The same tactics use against summer Ly, the same tactics

569
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 3: use against Corey Bush, the same tactics use against Jamal Bowman.

570
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 3: The messages have nothing nothing to do with Israel or

571
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 3: the actual intent of the donors right, which is to

572
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 3: prevent progressives from governing in Congress or any place else.

573
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 3: But the backers are aligned with the right wing agenda

574
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 3: of Israel and the right wing agenda of the United States. Right,

575
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 3: and that's what is happening, right, And so you know,

576
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 3: I don't know Darius. I'm sure he's a fine and

577
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 3: decent person to his family and to the people that

578
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 3: know him. And we need to have a structural analysis

579
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 3: of what's actually happening here. When you know that mail

580
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 3: comes in and what is the purpose of it, you know,

581
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 3: and so we could you know, I think, be able

582
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 3: to like talk about individuals or relationships to them, whether

583
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 3: or not we think they're good people or not, but

584
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 3: also have the structural conversation of what's actually happening structurally well,

585
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 3: And I.

586
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: Think that's what made me curious about it and why

587
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about it with Bakari two, who's

588
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: done who engages with this group, Because what's curious to

589
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,239
Speaker 1: me is when you go to their website and you

590
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: go to like their action fund Instagram page, you go

591
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: to their the Council's page, there's not anything that says

592
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: that they're doing anything by and for a pack or

593
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: with a pack. It has a very particular black bent.

594
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: Now that said, we know that there are shadow organizations

595
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: propped up all the time that do some of the

596
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: same work. What I'm curious about is from someone who's

597
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: a colleague and family, does you know what his involvement

598
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: is and what his experience has been with this group

599
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: because sometimes I and I think I'm especially tender right now,

600
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: I'm the most defensive of this bunch because I see

601
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: what people say about us. We're democratic shields there were

602
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: by Republicans were and it's all of this who paid

603
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: you to say this kind of thing? And it's like,

604
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: what if that's not the case, And is there a

605
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: way to get to a point of understanding despite the

606
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: fact that I from the mailers I saw that you

607
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,239
Speaker 1: put up in the text that you put up that

608
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: you receive from them is ridiculous.

609
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I want to know, yes, And I think, yeah,

610
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 3: there's levels of news that we could hold around it.

611
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 3: And like, I appreciate this conversation because we often talk

612
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 3: in black and right white, and we often talk and

613
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 3: like all right, and you know who's who's a shill

614
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 3: and who's actually for the people, and we all know that.

615
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 3: In fact, like there's all types of levels of nuance,

616
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,479
Speaker 3: and I think we could we could kind of hold

617
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 3: some of the nuances and also not get lost in

618
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 3: the nuance and be able to say, yeah, I'm opposed

619
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 3: to APAX agenda and their commitment to the war of

620
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 3: genocide against the Palestinian people. And bb net in Yahoo

621
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 3: and his like this is not me saying it, this

622
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 3: is like most observers racist authoritarian government, and he's not

623
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 3: even the most racist in his government and a PAC

624
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 3: for sure, for sure, for sure is the American lobby

625
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,919
Speaker 3: for all that, right for sure. So and if they're

626
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 3: they happen to be there, happen to be Black people

627
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,240
Speaker 3: who I might share a bear with or might share

628
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 3: community with, that are aligned with that, I'm still opposed

629
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 3: to them, right like that, I mean, at the end

630
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,399
Speaker 3: of the day, Like you could be as black as

631
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 3: anybody else and have a wrong point of view and

632
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 3: it doesn't make you less black, but it does make

633
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 3: your point of view wrong, at least from my perspective,

634
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 3: you know. And so I think we could, I think

635
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 3: we could hold that and like it's to me, it's

636
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 3: the same conversation with black conservatives. There's a huge difference

637
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 3: between people who love black people who have conservative point

638
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 3: of views and people who their main source of income

639
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 3: is saying whatever pleases the white conservative audience online, right, Like,

640
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 3: that's just a different and we should be able to

641
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,439
Speaker 3: talk about those things. Like I share community with tons

642
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 3: of black people who have a different point of view

643
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 3: than me, and I recognize that that person does love

644
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 3: life people at the end of the day. And there's

645
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 3: people who I can't see their love for black people

646
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,320
Speaker 3: they share the same black skin, but they're operating differently,

647
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 3: and and like we got to be able to talk

648
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 3: about these things right, like, yes, there is difference, and

649
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 3: we don't we don't need uniformity in our community. And

650
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,879
Speaker 3: there's a you know, there's this, there's this like, well,

651
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 3: I'm not I'm not trying to you know, get in

652
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,280
Speaker 3: anybody's bag or I'm not trying to knock anybody's hustle.

653
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 4: I think there's some hustles we should not.

654
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 7: Well, we're running a bit out of time, and I

655
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 7: think Bacari is coming back, and I know that you

656
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 7: have a flight that you're trying to catch. But I

657
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 7: just want to say, out of fairness, you know, it's

658
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 7: one thing for you to post on social media, but

659
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 7: I just want to be really responsible with our platform.

660
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 7: We're talking about someone that we did not reach out

661
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 7: to to get a statement from him, to get his position.

662
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,359
Speaker 7: I have not talked to Darius. I think the last

663
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 7: time was like maybe years ago. I might have sent

664
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 7: him a happy birthday text. So none of this is

665
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 7: rooted in a conversation. I certainly didn't do any investigative

666
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 7: background check into this group. We're just going based off

667
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 7: what you said. So I think, just to be responsible

668
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 7: to him and his partner and this organization, we should

669
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 7: be really clear that this was just based on a

670
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 7: social media post that you made. It would make sense

671
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 7: to me to offer Darius the opportunity to speak for

672
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 7: himself and come on and answer questions himself about what

673
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 7: their platform stands for, what their affiliation with APAK is,

674
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 7: who funds them, If he's willing to have that conversation,

675
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 7: I know I would certainly be willing to ask those

676
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,879
Speaker 7: questions just in being enherent.

677
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 4: And I think it's bigger than anyone individual, and certainly

678
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:41,399
Speaker 4: bigger than that brother.

679
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 7: And I've never met him well since we showed his

680
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 7: picture and all of that. Like, I just I think

681
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 7: we have to at least acknowledge that.

682
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we played. We played the social media video.

683
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,919
Speaker 1: And again, I'm so sorry y'all that we are having

684
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: some technical difficult difficulties with Kari. Butkari has firsthand experience

685
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: with the National Black Empowerment Council, and so uh he

686
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: at least would be able to speak to what this

687
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: organization does. It is incorporated, it is organized Jiron Smith,

688
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: who is a friend of mine, but who works in

689
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: the Trump administration, is a lobbyist or has been a

690
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: lobbyist for them, so they do have some organizational structure.

691
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 1: The Action Fund is where he lobbied actually, and the

692
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: Empowerment Council. Maybe Bakari can answer it now that he's on.

693
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 6: That would be crazy difficult, My God, Jesus help us.

694
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 7: Okay, go ahead, talk about your experience with black empowerment,

695
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 7: can you hear me?

696
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:53,439
Speaker 3: Yes?

697
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:53,839
Speaker 4: Yes?

698
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 8: So first of all, yeah, First of all, I think

699
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 8: you have to be very cautious about calling black people

700
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 8: bought and paid for.

701
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 5: I mean, that's first.

702
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 8: I think that Darius is somebody I know very well

703
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 8: who's done great work. And I'm just always very cautious

704
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 8: about castigating people like that, particularly when you don't have

705
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 8: that intimate of personal knowledge with them. It's an indictment

706
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 8: on one's character. But even more importantly, what they're doing now,

707
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 8: regardless of the consternation that people have about apat the

708
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 8: work that they're doing now. The NBEC, the National Black

709
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 8: Economic Alliance or counsel, I mean, the founders, the leadership

710
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 8: of that group. They actually are business people in our

711
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 8: community trying to meet people where they are, and they

712
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 8: actually had great success last night. I mean, if you

713
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 8: look at the fact that they were influential and Andre

714
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 8: Dickens influential and Mary Sheffield influential in the mayor of Buffalo,

715
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 8: you saw that they were actually doing the work.

716
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 5: And I think the listen.

717
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 8: I think at the end of the day, the organizations

718
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 8: who have, whether or not it's from corporate America or

719
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,240
Speaker 8: grassroots particularly interests of trying to get black folk collected,

720
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 8: probably need to have more conversations than not. And so

721
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,879
Speaker 8: I'm sorry about my technical difficulty, but I also had

722
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,280
Speaker 8: to let people know that I know, I know Darius

723
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 8: extremely well, and I just I take a back at

724
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 8: the Bought notion and your your criticisms of founding or

725
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 8: who people are are are very you know that they're fine.

726
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 8: I wouldn't hold you to account for any of your

727
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 8: personal opinions. But also let's look at the fact that

728
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 8: they won some races last night, and they were in

729
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 8: places where we're able to make history. And so whether

730
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,240
Speaker 8: or not it's a group of people who are business

731
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 8: folk or grassroots folk, if you're trying to get black

732
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 8: people elected throughout the country, I think it's something that's noble.

733
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 7: I know if they're affiliated directly or funded by APAK.

734
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 5: But I'm not.

735
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 8: I don't they're not affiliated directly. I'm pretty sure that

736
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 8: there are some donors who donate to a PACK and

737
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 8: the National Black Economic Council. I wouldn't say that those

738
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,800
Speaker 8: things are are are, you know, diametrically opposed. But I

739
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 8: can also say that people there are people in APAC

740
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 8: who have the similar disdain to Bbing then Yahoo that

741
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 8: others around this panel may have. I mean, but in

742
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 8: regards to the individuals and the group I am, it's

743
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 8: a it's a group of professional black folks.

744
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 5: That's who NBEC is. I don't.

745
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 8: I'm not with them. I'm not a part of them,

746
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 8: but that's who they are. I mean, you actually have

747
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 8: HBCU presidents that are on there, and so I just

748
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 8: can't sit here and throw the whole organization out. When

749
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 8: last night, as I keep saying last night, Tiffany, I'm sorry,

750
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,240
Speaker 8: but when this week they they helped lay the foundation

751
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 8: and maybe not not solely, but with other grassroots organization

752
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:30,280
Speaker 8: to get people elected.

753
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,879
Speaker 2: It sounds like I always love when we can qualify that,

754
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,280
Speaker 2: when we can qualify who won who in an election.

755
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 5: I always find it fascinating. Yeah, I hate that.

756
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 8: I hate that they are supported. They supported people who won.

757
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 8: Of course they didn't win an election. Car.

758
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,320
Speaker 6: Have you had any experience with them or the Action Fund?

759
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 5: I mean I know them extremely well. Yeah, like I

760
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:48,720
Speaker 5: we're friends.

761
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 1: I try to make sure I light on you while

762
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,399
Speaker 1: your internet didn't work. That's why I'm asking it, because

763
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 1: I know I.

764
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 8: Don't I don't do. Uh No, I'm not a I'm

765
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 8: not a founder or a member or anything. But I'm

766
00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 8: friends with all of them. I mean for the most part.

767
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 8: I mean I ain't to sit here and say I'm

768
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 8: not friends with folks.

769
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: Was everybody affiliated that you know? Have they participated in

770
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 1: the APAC trips?

771
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 2: Oh?

772
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 5: I don't know the answer.

773
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 8: Okay, that's what I got to realize. I went on

774
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 8: the first. I went on the first a Pac trip.

775
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 8: And so when we're talking about Darius's trips, I was

776
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 8: I was one of the people who were the first.

777
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 6: Darius true, because they've been doing Codell's for years.

778
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 8: Well the first there, yes, the first trip that was

779
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,399
Speaker 8: that that Darius And actually I might have gone before

780
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 8: Darius actually became a part of the group. So I'm

781
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,919
Speaker 8: not sure. And I can't answer the question of whether

782
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 8: or not people were involved in that. But what I

783
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 8: can say is I think that there was a specific

784
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,280
Speaker 8: race in New York and the mayor's race that people

785
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 8: got sideways over, and I think that there are other

786
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 8: races around the country that you'd be surprised where we

787
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 8: are more similar than not.

788
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 6: Do you know? This is my last question because I understand, well,

789
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 6: I don't know.

790
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 5: I just told you went out.

791
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 6: I'm annoyed.

792
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 4: I just told you.

793
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 5: I just told you. Called Darius and get them on

794
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 5: the show. That's what I just said.

795
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 6: Sip agrees with you.

796
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 1: But here's my question, because I am I'm curious about this,

797
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 1: and you can answer it. You could say no comment,

798
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,479
Speaker 1: I'm wait till Darius comes on the show. I'll defer

799
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: to you and Tip on that question. But here's my question.

800
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: Why if their focus is electing black candidates, lifting up

801
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: black leaders, what role were they playing in the New

802
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 1: York mayor's race.

803
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:18,399
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't think.

804
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 8: I mean, I'm not going to answer for Darius, but

805
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 8: I think that there's a direct belief that democratic socialism

806
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 8: is not best for black folks, and I mean that

807
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 8: he literally put that on his Instagram.

808
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 6: Is it because Don's middle name is Kwame.

809
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,840
Speaker 5: I'm pretty sure they've endorsed the black Kwami before.

810
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 1: I'm just like I was, but they like he black enough.

811
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:44,760
Speaker 6: He was living in Uganda for seven years.

812
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 5: But I will tell you this, I can, I just

813
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:51,240
Speaker 5: tell you all this, man, I didn't.

814
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 8: I mean, I just I just the choices in New

815
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 8: York for me personally, were just interesting choices between Eric Adams,

816
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,359
Speaker 8: Andrew Conill and Mandani. And I just think that right now,

817
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 8: my prayer for Zoran is that he reached out to

818
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 8: people like Andrew Gillham, Frank Scott, Randall Wolfin, that he

819
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 8: reached out to people like Andre Dickens, that he reach

820
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 8: out to people who have gone through that storm, who

821
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 8: have led major cities and who have come out on

822
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 8: the other side with some level of success, because we

823
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 8: need to all hope he successful, because it ain't nothing

824
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 8: but a bunch of black folks that live up to

825
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 8: in New York City anyway.

826
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 4: That's something we all can agree out. The governing.

827
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 3: But the governing experiment that will be the Mam Donnie

828
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 3: uh the Mandani administration. We need that, we need that

829
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 3: experiment to succeed because there's two million black folks that

830
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 3: live in New York whuld need a safer, more affordable city,

831
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 3: a city that actually works for us, that takes seriously

832
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 3: the black agenda.

833
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 4: And we haven't had that. We have not we have

834
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:54,439
Speaker 4: not had that.

835
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 8: The black man running for mayor was was arguably one

836
00:44:58,520 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 8: of the worst ones for black folk.

837
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 4: Again, it's a beautiful, beautiful objection.

838
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: So without objection, and black people have welcomed everybody home.

839
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 4: MO.

840
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:11,879
Speaker 6: We kept you way past. I hope we didn't make

841
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 6: you lose your I'm.

842
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,760
Speaker 5: Sorry, I apologize. I apologize for the disrespect of my system.

843
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:18,720
Speaker 5: I apologize for the Apple.

844
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 6: You need to get a new computer immediately.

845
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 5: All right, well give me send me, send me Apple.

846
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:25,839
Speaker 6: It's called Apple Pay, by the way.

847
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: But anyway, he appreciates you, Maurice Mitchell from Working Families Party.

848
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: You know, I got some other questions for you, but

849
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: we ran out of time. Uh and Makari, thank you

850
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 1: for coming back on AOL dial up. I'm sorry that

851
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,320
Speaker 1: your parents picked up your phone and interrupted your connection.

852
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 6: Thank you all so much.

853
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 5: Welcome home, welcome home, Welcome home, y'all.

854
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 1: Native Lamb is a production of iHeartRadio and partnership with

855
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: reisent Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the

856
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

857
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: favorite shows.