1 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie Ads and Famanza and welcome to 2 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: Stuff I've Never told your production of I Heart Radio's 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: House Stuff Works. In today's episode, we're going to be 4 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 1: discussing something that I think, um, with all of the 5 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: news coming out, might be on some people's minds, it 6 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: is important to discuss and to discuss it, and it's 7 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: being crisis pregnancy centers. We are joined by Maya. Would 8 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: you like to introduce yourself and tell the listeners a 9 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: little bit about yourself? Nih, Yeah, thank you so much 10 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,639 Speaker 1: for having me on. My name is Maya Kraft. I've 11 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: been a journalist for about fifteen years, but I'm sort 12 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: of new to Atlanta. I'm from California originally, and I 13 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 1: landed in Atlanta about a year and a half ago 14 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: with kind of which I think was kind of an 15 00:00:54,960 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: interesting moment in um the South, you know, changing demographics 16 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: of the South and and it's an especially interesting place 17 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: to be at this moment. So um, when my editor 18 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: approached me to write this story about crisis pregnancy centers 19 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: with everything that was going on with the changing reproductive 20 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: rights landscape, I jumped on the opportunity. Yes, and we 21 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: are so glad to have you here because UM, your 22 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: piece and medium was excellently done. UM. And it's called 23 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: Inside the Shadow Clinics for listeners who want to look 24 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: it up. And as you were writing it, it it was 25 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: around the time that Brett Kavanaugh was being confirmed for 26 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. And as we record this now, several 27 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: states are passing very restrictive abortion laws, ultimately with the 28 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: goal of overturning Roe v. Wade. So we thought it 29 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: would be good time to talk about it. But let's 30 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: start with the basics. What are crisis pregnancy centers, Yeah, 31 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: crisis pregnancy centers. They're also sometimes called pregnancy resource centers. 32 00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: These are centers that are run by faith based groups UM, 33 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: that basically exist to talk women out of having an abortion. UM. 34 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: From the outside, they might look like a traditional women's 35 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: health clinic. Some of them even have innocuous names like 36 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: the Women's Clinic, UM. But when you get in there, 37 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: you see a lot of Christian literature and the lobby 38 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: so UM. These centers often masquerade as traditional women's healthcare clinics, 39 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: but when you dig a little deeper, you realize that's 40 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: not what they are. A lot of times they open 41 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: up right across the street from a planned parenthood, although 42 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: in states like Georgia where there are so few abortion clinics, Uh, 43 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: they'll just open up anywhere that you might find women 44 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: who might be considering an abortion, college, campuses, that kind 45 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: of thing. Mm hmm. And I know that. Um a 46 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: while back, John Oliver did a piece of them, and 47 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 1: they you kind of focus a little bit on the vans, 48 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: like they all move around in vans and park outside. 49 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's one that I think parks out front 50 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: of a church in hate Bill. Yeah. I tried to 51 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: go and catch it, but it wasn't it wasn't keeping 52 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: regular hours. They're really regularly available in like a lot 53 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: of suburban areas. I found because I as I worked 54 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: in de facts and as I worked with state government stuff, 55 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 1: and in the state of Georgia, they kind of leaned 56 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: towards faith based, ah, faith based, evidence based of resources, 57 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 1: and there are a lot almost per counting, I think, 58 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:31,519 Speaker 1: and it's really available as an access resource foremost teenage girl. Yeah, 59 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: they're definitely much more prevalent in Georgia than a planned 60 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: parenthood for example, or any other kind of traditional women 61 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: selth clinic that provides abortion services. Yeah, and that's a 62 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: good segue into my next question, which is, do you 63 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: have any numbers around this? Yeah, there's actually one of 64 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: the researchers I interviewed from my piece is this woman 65 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: named Andreas Schwartz and Drew ber from the University of Georgia. 66 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: She's put together a map of crisis pregnancy centers across 67 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: the United States in an effort to sort of help 68 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: women identify is this a crisis pregnancy center or is 69 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: this a traditional medical clinic where I'm going to find 70 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: sort of more unbiased medical information. Um. And the numbers 71 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: that she came up with were somewhere around crisis pregnancy 72 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: centers in the United States. And just for some perspective, 73 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: that's about three times the number of abortion clinics in 74 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: the country. So they're outnumbering abortion clinics three to one. 75 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: In places like Georgia, it's more like ten to one. Wow. Um. 76 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: And I'm wondering compared to the states that we talked 77 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: about earlier when we had that episode of about abortion, 78 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: there are several states don't have one abortion clinic or 79 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:37,799 Speaker 1: and then you compared to how I wonder how many 80 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: they have of those types of crisis centers. Yeah, yeah, 81 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: and one thing. Like you said, they do typically look 82 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 1: like in a lot of cases, like an abortion clinic, 83 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 1: and you might go in and they might be the 84 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: staff there might be wearing like scrubs or some kind 85 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: of medical attire um. But it is typically run by volunteers. Correct, 86 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: It depends. Some of these places are quite well funded. 87 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: They have budgets over a million dollars a year. Others 88 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: are shoe string operations that are basically the extension of 89 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: the local church. And you might have a couple young people, 90 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: you know, who are basically youth pastor you know, kind 91 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,119 Speaker 1: of like that sort of level um, you know, earning 92 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: a part time salary to staff these centers. So it 93 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,559 Speaker 1: really runs the gamut. And you you spoke to someone 94 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: who worked that one in Georgia, correct, I did. Yeah. 95 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: It was hard to get access to these crisis pregnancy centers. 96 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: They're not very media friendly. I wonder why. But there 97 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: was one in Jonesboro, Georgia where I was able to 98 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: spend some time with the two women who staff it 99 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: and learn a little bit about what goes on there, 100 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: what kind of services they offer, what their facilities look like, 101 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: and um, what their point of view is on on 102 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: what they're doing. Um, it was really it was really illuminating. 103 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: But I think the one thing that struck me most 104 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: was how young, how young these people were, and how 105 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: far removed they were from any kind of medical training. 106 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 1: You know, they were very passionate about their faith, and 107 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: that's definitely the place where they were coming from, right. 108 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: I remember in your PC she wrote about how didn't 109 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,559 Speaker 1: you show one of them like a website? And he said, 110 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: this is a crisis pregnancy center website and he said 111 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: like abortion and there several times and she was like, 112 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 1: are you sure. Yeah. I thought it was a great 113 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 1: sort of snapshot of how this industry is changing, right, 114 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: because the crisis pregnancy centers have been around a long time. 115 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: I'm sure everybody has driven down the freeway past one 116 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: of these billboards. It's like Pregnant Scared called this eight 117 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: hundred number. That's been around forever, and it's kind of 118 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: an older model of crisis pregnancy centers. The new thing 119 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: is obscuring the link between the religious organization that usually 120 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: backs these centers and making them look more like medical clinics. 121 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 1: So the center that I visited was much more this 122 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 1: old model. Um, it had one of those billboards out 123 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: over the Boulevard and Jones Borough, and that's how they 124 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: got I think most people through the door. So we 125 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: I had her pull up the website for one of 126 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: these kind of more twenty first century, more savvy crisis 127 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: pregnancy centers where you could not tell, like even if 128 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: you were like a media scholar looking at this website, 129 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: you couldn't tell that it's not an abortion clinic. You know, 130 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: it says want an abortion, schedule an appointment today and 131 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: click here. Um, and you know, she and I spent 132 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: some time looking at this website and she didn't believe 133 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: me that it was a crisis pregnancy center. So it's 134 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: really you know, even people within the industry don't entirely 135 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: know the true motivations of these things. So what was 136 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: her response was just like, no, that's not right, Like 137 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: that was just her whole she she personally was, um, 138 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: not cool with being that misleading. But then I asked her, 139 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: I said, you know, if you're so upfront about, you 140 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: know the fact that you're a Christian ministry that's just 141 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: providing alternative information, why don't you say Christian pregnancy counseling 142 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: on your sign? Why do you just say, pregnancy center. 143 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: I shouldn't have a great answer for that. Um, but 144 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: this isn't about an individual. This is a big, well 145 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: funded network of centers all across the country that are 146 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: you know, conducting this coordinated campaign to change the conversation 147 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: around abortion right and UM there are three nationwide networks corrects. Yeah, 148 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: there are three. UM Care net is the main one, 149 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: NIFLA is another, and Heartbeat International. Um. Yeah, so they 150 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 1: they run a majority of these centers, or the centers 151 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: are affiliated with those networks. And UM there's also a 152 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: company called Heritage House that provides a lot of the 153 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: pamphlets and materials that you'll find in these centers. UM, 154 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: plastic models of a uterus with showing different stages of 155 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: fetal development. Um. All these pamphlets purportedly physician approved information 156 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: about abortion that turns out to be quite misleading, if 157 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: not outright false. Yeah, and UM that's something that we 158 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: should say if we haven't already. But they're largely unregulated, 159 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: UM facilities, and they promise all sorts of things some 160 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: of them do. Could you go into that for a 161 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah. Usually what gets people in the door 162 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: is the free pregnancy test and free ultrasound. A lot 163 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: of times, I think women need proof of pregnancy in 164 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: order to get certain benefits from the state. UM, so 165 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: that's what gets people in the door. But a lot 166 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: of times the pregnancy tests that they're offering are not 167 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: any more sophisticated than what you'd buy at the drug 168 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: store for a couple of bucks. UM, and the ultrasounds 169 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: are most of the time, these are not licensed sonographers 170 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,959 Speaker 1: that can diagnose anything if you have an abnormality in 171 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: your pregnancy, or even tell how far along you are. U. 172 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: It's just sort of to get you to see this 173 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: image and have that emotional moment of potentially hearing a heartbeat. Um. 174 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: It's there's really not a lot of medical merit to 175 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: the ultrasounds that some of these centers might be doing, 176 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: but that doesn't stop them from I think there's sevent 177 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: of crisis pregnancy centers own an ultrasound machine. Yeah, And 178 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: I was reading accounts from women who have been and 179 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: said that, Um, there's a lot of stress of like 180 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 1: oh mommy, you know, like already trying to make that 181 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: make you feel that emotional connection. Definitely, one of the 182 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: first things that happens if you walk into the crisis 183 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: pregnancy center that I was spending time with in Jonesboro. 184 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: Is you get ushered into a counseling room where you 185 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: sit with one of the counselors and talk about your 186 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: concerns about your pregnancy, and they will hand you a 187 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: little baby hat that has been hand knit by one 188 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: of the church volunteers and have you hold it and 189 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: touch it and sort of get a sense for the warm, 190 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: fuzzy relationship that you might be able to have with 191 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: your baby. You know, it's it's definitely an emotional appeal. Wow. 192 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 1: So let's go further along with that for a second. Um, 193 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: say I'm a woman and I walk into one of 194 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: these CPCs crisis pegnancy center. What can I expect? What 195 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: will happen? Um? Well, it depends. If you're going to 196 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: one of these older school places, you might see over 197 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: religious symbol you might see crosses on the wall and 198 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: biblical music playing in the lobby. You'll definitely see a 199 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: lot of pamphlets in the waiting room telling you about 200 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: questionable things like post abortion trauma syndrome or the link 201 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: between breast cancer and abortion. Um. These very misleading literature. 202 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: If you're in one of these more medicalized places. It 203 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: might be indistinguishable from a medical clinic. You might see 204 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: a sonographer wandering around in scrubs, you know, you might 205 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: not see any religious symbolism at all. Um. So it 206 00:11:55,040 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: really depends. It's it's not always clear. Yeah, and that 207 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: is probably the biggest criticism of these facilities is that 208 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: they do mislead and they provide false information and then 209 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,719 Speaker 1: try to pass themselves off as a legitimate medical facility 210 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,319 Speaker 1: or a clinic. Um. Do you have any specific examples 211 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: around that. I know you mentioned like kind of not 212 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: well supported medical claim shall we say, but any other 213 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: examples like that. Um? Yeah, Well it was interesting. A 214 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: lot of the people I tried to interview for this 215 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: piece conducted themselves as though they were medical professionals, and 216 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: some of them actually were, and they said they couldn't 217 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:44,199 Speaker 1: talk to me because of hipp ap privacy. So they're 218 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: kind of entering this really interesting gray area between are 219 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: you a medical clinic subject those kind of regulations or not? Um. 220 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: Misleading medical claims? Yeah, I mean the literature was full 221 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: of um things that that have just been proven to 222 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: e falls. There's pamphlets in the lobby that imply that 223 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: a fetus can feel pain as early as six weeks. 224 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: There's there's no medical evidence to support that. Um, there 225 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: are pamphlets around the link between abortion and breast cancer 226 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:16,839 Speaker 1: that's kind of harped on a lot in the anti 227 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: abortion community. There's no evidence for that. I mentioned before, 228 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: post abortion trauma syndrome, no evidence for that either, So 229 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: answer your question or um, I I also found examples 230 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: of depression, drug abuse, increased chance of future miscarriage and 231 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: or infertility, And yeah, none of that is supported by research. UM. 232 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: Heartbeat International has these suggested scripts. That's one of the 233 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: things that from there is of suicidal behaviors may be 234 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: attributed to abortion. So things like that, Yeah, definitely. And 235 00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 1: and what's interesting is there's some, um, you know, within 236 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: these circles, there are some people who tour the church 237 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: circuit kind of giving talks about the abortion they almost 238 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: had or the abortion they did have and how guilty 239 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,839 Speaker 1: they felt about it. So, UM, there's there's definitely conversation 240 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: around it within the CPC community that it's not just 241 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: if you've had an abortion, you're a sinner. You know, 242 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: a lot of times it's embracing people who have had 243 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: previous abortions and trying to get them UM to to 244 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: make a different decision by telling these stories of how 245 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: rough it's been for these other women and UM, I 246 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: I also read, just to go back to this sort 247 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: of misleading aspect of it is that they might make 248 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: you wait hours for pregnancy test which six minutes UM, 249 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: so that they can they have more time to give 250 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: you this information, and they might ask questions like was 251 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: there a loving Christian boyfriend who would make a great 252 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: dead UM? Did I have a kind do I have 253 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: kind supportive parents would be excited by the idea of 254 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: a grandchild? Yeah, yeah, I noticed. There definitely seemed to 255 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:06,359 Speaker 1: be a lot of effort to get the men involved 256 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: in these decisions, to get these fathers to come in 257 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: UM and have counseling themselves. There's a big program that 258 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: a lot of these pregnancy centers offer which is called 259 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: Earn While You Learn, where basically, if they've talked to 260 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: you out of having an abortion, you have a baby, 261 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: you can come in UM for an hour on a 262 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: Tuesday night watch these DVDs about parenting, and some of 263 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: them have sort of decent information and some of them 264 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: are really out there. UM, and you watch these DVDs. 265 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: You do these little homework worksheets, and you earn baby 266 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: Bucks and you can earn mommy Bucks and daddy Bucks, 267 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: and you redeem these for onesies and car seats and 268 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: baby wipes and things that you need if you're a 269 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: new mom. Um. So there's definitely an attempt to open 270 00:15:52,720 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: the the whole community. And like you were saying earlier, um, 271 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: from the outside, they do appear frequently um like they're 272 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: just a medical clinic, and a lot of them will 273 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: purposefully use like the same fonts are as planned, parenthed 274 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: or something, which is I mean, it's hard not to 275 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: see that as misleading. In all, they frequently also used 276 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: choice or choose in their name. Um, So it's easy 277 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: to see how you might be especially if they're next 278 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: to each other. You might just go into the wrong 279 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: one or not the one that you intended to go to. Yeah, 280 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: and I think something that probably happens more frequently is 281 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: not the textbook scenario that you're thinking of, where a 282 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: woman just knows she wants an abortion and wanders into 283 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: this place. It's people who are a lot more conflicted, 284 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: people who don't have a lot of information. Um. And 285 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: you know, people who need baby wipes, and so you know, 286 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: they come to this pregnancy center and and do these 287 00:16:55,600 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: courses and that's just what they're doing. Um. Yeah, it's 288 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: the choice language is used a lot. We're trying to 289 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: get women to make a better choice. Right. We have 290 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:09,239 Speaker 1: a little bit more for your listeners, but first we're 291 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: gonna pause for a quick bike for word from Responsive 292 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsor. UM. I found a 293 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: quote from Abby Johnson, who is an anti abortion activist. 294 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: We want to appear neutral on the outside. The best 295 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: called the best client you ever get is one that 296 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: thinks they're walking into an abortion clinic. Yea yeah. And 297 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: also a lot of them have been accused of doing 298 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: delaying tactics. UM, so that you miss the legal window 299 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: for an abortion. Are that maybe by the time you 300 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: arrive at the decision, No, I do want an abortion, 301 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: it's more complicated and more expensive. Maybe you can't afford 302 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,679 Speaker 1: it anymore. Um. Some of them might say that you 303 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: can wait and see if you miscarry. There's definitely a 304 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 1: lot of assists placed on on miscarriage, how how common 305 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: it is, and you know, you read some of these 306 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 1: pamphlets and you go it's almost like just pray it 307 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: away kind of thing like there's, um, yeah, I found 308 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: I was surprised by that, the the prevalence of the 309 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: information on miscarriage, almost like if if God wants this 310 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: pregnancy to go away, you know, there's this avenue. Were 311 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: you able to ask the individual staff about those types 312 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: of literature why miscarriage is so emphasized. They you know, 313 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: they're young women and they're getting these pamphlets from this 314 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: centralized organization UM that's coordinating all this several levels above 315 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 1: their head. So when we talked about medical information, you know, 316 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: I would say, do you talk to these women about miscarriage? 317 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: Do you talk to them about maternal mortality? You know, 318 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: black women, the maternal mortality rates are crazy in this 319 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: country and in the South especially, UM. And you know, 320 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:05,120 Speaker 1: they said, we're not doctors. We don't that's not that's 321 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 1: not what we do. And that's kind of the rub, right, 322 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: That's the crux of the situation, The manipulative tactics like, well, 323 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 1: we can't tell you medical stuff, but we can tell 324 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 1: you morality stuff. Is really easy. This part is easy, right, right. 325 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: Another thing that I imagine a lot of people listening 326 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: won't find surprising, But let's talk about contraception for um, 327 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: did you find that there was any kind of literature 328 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: or something about contraception not in the center that I 329 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: spent time in? Um? And when I asked about that, 330 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: you know, it's commonly said, if you really want to 331 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: reduce abortion, give everybody condoms. You know, when the more 332 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: contraception there is, the more widely available abortions go down. Right, 333 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:54,199 Speaker 1: And their view was, aren't condoms plentiful everywhere else? Like 334 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 1: it's like you could go outside and its reigning condoms 335 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: or something. It wasn't their job, that's not what they're doing. Um, 336 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 1: they can you know, people who want contraception can find 337 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,439 Speaker 1: it everywhere, but not here. Okay, I remember, I can't remember. 338 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 1: I think her name was Betty, but she she's involved 339 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 1: in this a lot. And she said that she thought 340 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: condoms don't work like the time or it was some 341 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: number that was very, very large, and the person said, 342 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure they're ninety percent effective, and she was like, no, 343 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: I don't think so. Um. There was an undercover investigation 344 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 1: into fifty five of Ohio CPCs and it found that 345 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: none offered birth control, and they overwhelmingly pushed abstinence. UM. 346 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,880 Speaker 1: In fact, a popular used CPC manual says, never counsel 347 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: for contraception. UM. So yeah, I mean, I guess that 348 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: does make sense in a weird way that they wouldn't 349 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 1: if it's not their thing. But it also at the 350 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: same time it seems maybe it should be part of 351 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 1: their thing. I don't know. There's a lot about the 352 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 1: reproductive rights conversation that doesn't make a lot, right, I mean, 353 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: kind of like everything else, it's not about preventative, never 354 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: about preventative. Yes, take away from the upside um. But 355 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: also I found that, um, a lot of CPCs are 356 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 1: encouraged to tell women that birth control causes hair loss, 357 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: breast cancer, weight game headaches, and memory loss, and that 358 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: condoms are quote ineffective at preventing pregnancy. It's almost like 359 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: they're encouraging people to get pregnant and have the baby, 360 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: and have the baby, but not help them after that 361 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 1: baby is one or two, maybe even then, not even 362 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: before then. The centers I spoke with took a lot 363 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 1: of pride in in the baby closets, you know, and 364 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: all the things that they give to new mothers, And 365 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: that was evidence that, you know, they do care about 366 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: these fetuses outside of you know, or these babies once 367 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: they're out in the world. Um, but you're right, it doesn't. 368 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,360 Speaker 1: It doesn't extend past a couple of years. And it's 369 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: questionable whether that method is is actually helping women or 370 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 1: if it's you know, Andrea Schwartzenderber, who I spoke with 371 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: from my piece, as you know, you might some people 372 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,239 Speaker 1: might call that coercive. If you're making people will come 373 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: in and watch biblical DVDs before giving them baby wipes, 374 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: which costs your dollars. You know, it sounds like it 375 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: has to they have to earn their way through something 376 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: that they were being encouraged and or most forcefubly made 377 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: to do. You have to earn to actually provide after 378 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: the fact, right, And I think this brings us to 379 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 1: a big question is are they illegal? They certainly seem 380 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: to be proliferating at a great pace. But yeah, it's 381 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: it's a very interesting time to be watching what's going 382 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: on in the courts. A couple of years ago, California 383 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 1: issued a ruling that crisis pregnancy centers were required to 384 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: post information in the lobby saying that they don't provide 385 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: abortion services. And and listing the location of a nearby 386 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: UM center where where women could find those kinds of services. 387 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: And um that was struck down by the Supreme Court. 388 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: UM Clarence Thomas I think wrote the opinion, and they said, no, 389 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 1: it's an infringement on freedom of speech to make someone 390 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,719 Speaker 1: do that. So UM. But it'll be interesting to watch 391 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: as they as these centers become more and more medicalized, 392 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: if they're going to be subject to the kind of 393 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: regulation that medical clinics are are subject to. Absolutely, and 394 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: and that decision that you just mentioned that was like 395 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 1: this is happening. It was last summer, Yeah, it's happening now. Um, 396 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: and so far like up until now, they stop just 397 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: short of being a medical provider on purpose, so they 398 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: aren't subject to regulations, they aren't subject to hippo, which 399 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: is why I found so interesting that you said you 400 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: mentioned that earlier, which means that the info being gathered 401 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: it's not confidential. Um. One South Dakota law requires that 402 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: women go to a CPC before getting an abortion, and 403 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: I believe it's being challenged right now, and that's definitely 404 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: the direction that it's moving. In Georgia too, there's there's 405 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 1: state money in Georgia that goes toward trying to steer 406 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: women into one of these pregnancy alternative centers, um as 407 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: they're trying to make decisions about what to do with 408 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: their pregnancy. Um. There was I was reading the like 409 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: privacy statement of one of these more misleading medical centers, 410 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: and it was very concerning what they do with the 411 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: information that they gather, you know, in these very vulnerable 412 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: counseling sessions. I'll have to look it up and I 413 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: can send it to you. But there was language like 414 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 1: staff can use the information that you tell us privately 415 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: and share it with your family, your pastor whoever we 416 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: deem you know, important to know this information. That's frightening. 417 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 1: And that's already the back and forth with the fact 418 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: that with young girls who are pregnant and allow like 419 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: telling and reporting to the parents, which could be another 420 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,199 Speaker 1: problematic issue about well, how far does hip cover a 421 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: minor and why why why are we not talking about 422 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 1: that as more of a this is an issue if 423 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,120 Speaker 1: you really truly believe in hip and privacy, they should 424 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 1: cover all. But at the same time it's not. It's 425 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 1: kind of a I can choose once again, Yeah, um, 426 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: and going back to the funding. Do you know, like, 427 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: where is the funding coming from? How much funding are 428 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: we talking about? This was the most fascinating part of 429 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 1: my research. UM. I was expecting a lot of funding 430 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: would be private through churches and you know, individuals who 431 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 1: really feel passionately about this issue. I was surprised to 432 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: find out how much funding is coming from your paycheck 433 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: and my paycheck. UM. A lot of these crisis pregnancy 434 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: centers get federal funding for teaching abstinence only sex education, 435 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: and we talked a little bit about the state funding. 436 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 1: In Georgia, a new bill was recently passed. I think 437 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: it was two million dollars is going to crisis pregnancy centers, 438 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: including some of these worst offenders that are most misleading 439 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,680 Speaker 1: on their website. UM. Texas I think a few years 440 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: ago committed five million dollars to crisis pregnancy centers. It's 441 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: since up to that investment to forty million dollars over 442 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: five years. And uh, my favorite, at your local d 443 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: m V you can go in and buy a Choose 444 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: Life license plate and a portion of those proceeds benefit 445 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: crisis pregnancy centers. Wow. Yeah, and I believe it's it's 446 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 1: thirty two states in Washington, d C. Have those choose 447 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: life last checked. Wow. Okay, well that's not infuriating at all. Um, 448 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: something else that I'm sure won't be infuriating at all. 449 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,919 Speaker 1: Who do you think this impacts the most? So? The 450 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: center I visited was in Jonesboro, UM, which is half 451 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: an hour outside of Atlanta. It's a very it's a 452 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: pretty low income community. I think a third of the 453 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,360 Speaker 1: households are on food stamps. UM. So this is impacting 454 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: people who don't have other options available in their area. UM, 455 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 1: low income women, Black women, who, as we mentioned, are 456 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 1: suffering from well already insanely high maternal mortality rates. So 457 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:18,199 Speaker 1: it's it's it's impacting the most vulnerable. Can you speak 458 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: to the history of these at all? Yeah. I was 459 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,439 Speaker 1: surprised to learn that Chrysis pregnancy centers are even older 460 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: than Roe versus Wade. UM. But they've been around for 461 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: a long time. So. Robert Pearson's considered the founding father 462 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: of crisis pregnancy centers. The first one was opened in 463 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven in Hawaii. Yeah, and um after that, 464 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 1: two years later he founded the Pearson Foundation, which is 465 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: based in St. Louis, and the goal was to assist 466 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: local groups with setting up cbcs, and they provide things 467 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,919 Speaker 1: like pamphlets, discounted video equipment, and slide shows like the 468 00:27:55,080 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: twenty seven minute long Caring includes many pick there's a 469 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 1: bloody fetuses and waist cans, and one of a gurning 470 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,120 Speaker 1: carrying a woman who was apparently dead and is covered 471 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: by a sheet. It ends by comparing abortion to the 472 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: Final Solution, and that's from Crisis Pregnancy Center. Watch. There's 473 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,199 Speaker 1: a lot of that kind of language, um, and a 474 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: lot of a lot of people talking about even framing 475 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: it as sort of a racial justice issue what they're doing, 476 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: because if they're trying to lower rates of abortion among 477 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: black women, it's as if, you know, because they're they're 478 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:36,439 Speaker 1: trying to fight this this genocide of I don't know 479 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: exactly what the reasoning is, but it's definitely framed as 480 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: almost like a human rights issue what they're doing. Yeah, 481 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: I mean they already we were talking about this during 482 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: the abortion I don't know if we actually said it, 483 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: but they're calling it infanticide abortion that it's kind of 484 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: like that's completely misleading in every way, um, in what 485 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: we're talking about and what we're talking about with rights 486 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: in general. Yeah, And as I've mentioned many many times 487 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: on the show, I come from a really small town 488 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: in Georgia, UM and I in eighth grade, I was 489 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: on the debate team, and I was like, me and 490 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: one other kid were liberal and everyone else's conservative, so 491 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: it's always us on the other side. And when abortioned, 492 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: that was the debate the issue. I just remember on 493 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: the other side, they showed slideshows of all these babies 494 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: in like dumpsters and trash cans, and then me and 495 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: my partner had to go up and we were like, well, 496 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: that's terrible, but he's saying this is good. But also 497 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: this Issari really was out right, and again like it's 498 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: all about the misleading like uh, feedomongering that continues to 499 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: happen every day in any type of political agenda, Like 500 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: the best way to get to people who don't truly 501 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: know it's the cost fear. Well, yeah, and like you 502 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: said that, a lot of times it is someone whose 503 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: weaving and isn't sure. And if you come in and 504 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: watch a video like that, I'm sure is very effective. 505 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: And even if just to have to say afterwards like 506 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: me and eighth grade, it didn't change how it felt, 507 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: but I felt worse at voice what I thought after it. Again, 508 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 1: when people make the term murdering babies your murder, how 509 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: do you argue with that? I mean, we really can't. Yeah, 510 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: I love, I love killing baby. Let's do this. That's 511 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: gonna be somebody's gonna pull that, I know, but you 512 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: know that that's the whole mentality. And I know with 513 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: a lot of the pregnancy resource centers, actually the ones 514 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 1: that I've seen because with me working in the state level, UM, 515 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 1: they do wear scrubs, and I think one or two 516 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: of them are not necessarily nursers but their assistants, so 517 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: they're in the field, but not quite the same guidelines 518 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: of education wise. I saw a lot of UM nursing 519 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: students and scenographers who are getting their practical experience doing 520 00:30:55,560 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: an internship at a crisis pregnancy center. It's recognized. Yeah, 521 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: that's kind of how they get away with being medical. 522 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: I guess um in their conversations, and again, this is 523 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: one of those things that causes a lot of guilt 524 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: and young frightened people who are pregnant, who are in 525 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: a place where they're not sure what to do, so 526 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: they use tactics such as guilt and fear and um 527 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: empathy in every way to try to persuade someone. One 528 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: thing that's that struck me about some of the folks 529 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: I met whose staff these centers is they really are warm, open, 530 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: genuine people who seem to care. These are really like 531 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: motherly figures that you see the people are reaching out 532 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: for because I've seen that as well. They come and 533 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 1: touch you and hug on you a little bit and 534 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: tell you everything's gonna be okay, and oftentimes we'll be like, 535 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: let me pray with you, even though that might not 536 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: be a thing at the center, but they want to 537 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: make it so personal for you as if they understand 538 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: you and your well being, and to be fair, maybe 539 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: they do because they're that passionate, but of course it 540 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: comes very one sided, um without an understanding of what 541 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: this could be the fallout in the future. Yeah, I 542 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: think I read another account from someone who went to 543 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: a crisis pregnancy center. I think she might have been 544 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: an undercover person. But in either case, the person she 545 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: the nurse if it was at nurse, but whoever she 546 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: met at the crisis pregnancy center followed up with her 547 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: for two months, like called her on the phone was, 548 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: you know, just checking out, how are you? How are things? 549 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: I got to know her, so, yeah, they're They're very personable. 550 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: It seems generally um. But to go back to the 551 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: history for a second, um and Pierson, he wrote a 552 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: widely accepted and used pamphlet outlining tactics to use to 553 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: deceive women like He was pretty open about it, and 554 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: then in nine he said, obviously we're fighting Satan. A 555 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: killer who in this case is the girl who wants 556 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: to kill her baby, has no right to information that 557 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: will help her kill her baby. Therefore, when she calls 558 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: and says do you do abortions, we do not tell 559 00:32:55,880 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: her no, we don't do abortions. So I can imagine 560 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: if you truly believe that in it, it feels like 561 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: you're fighting Satan. It's pretty powerful messaging. I think these 562 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: people are definitely convinced that they're doing the right thing. Oh. Absolutely, Again, 563 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: when we were talking about feminism in itself, one of 564 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: the big reasons people hate that word again, one of 565 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: the big reasons that I had fights with my family 566 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: is because feminism equals abortion. End the story, an abortion 567 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: means murder and you care nothing about the baby. That's 568 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: that's the whole picture for them. There's nothing else to that, 569 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 1: even though obviously it's a very broad subject. And that's 570 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: exactly what this fearmongering has become. Is they're trying to 571 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: take away life. Yeah, and they've been very effective at it. UM. 572 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: We have a little bit more to discuss, but first 573 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: we're going to pause for one more quick break for 574 00:33:51,400 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: word from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you, Sposish. 575 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: And one of the ways that they've gotten more effective, 576 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: and you kind of touch on this, is that there's 577 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: this old school and new school. UM. They've modernized, they've 578 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,720 Speaker 1: come into the twentieth century. You wrote about a conference 579 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: that was recently held in Atlanta that was to make 580 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 1: sure that CPCs are operating the most effectively and these 581 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,760 Speaker 1: are modern times. Can you talk a little bit about that. Yeah, 582 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 1: there were so many interesting workshops that there were about 583 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: people who came together staffers from crisis pregnancy centers around 584 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 1: the country, UM to sort of learn new best practices 585 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 1: for their industry and how to stay competitive in this 586 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: shifting landscape where you know, there's billboards. That's another era now. 587 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,880 Speaker 1: People who are what they call abortion minded or often 588 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: what's the first thing you do you Google you know, 589 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,919 Speaker 1: abortion clinic in my area, So how do you reach 590 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: those people? It's you know, there was a workshop on 591 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,479 Speaker 1: Google AdWords and how to utilize that to get people 592 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 1: to your website, how to write a compelling landing page 593 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: for your website, how do use Facebook? Um, you know, 594 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: they're definitely trying to stay on the cutting edge of 595 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: how people are searching for information around abortion and make 596 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: sure they're meeting their target person there right, Yeah, I 597 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: remember that. Um, when that came out that if you 598 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 1: type in abortion, probably one of the top three results 599 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: is going to be at Crisis Pregnancy Center because they 600 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 1: did buy those like keywords. Um, so there, they've gotten 601 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 1: pretty good at that as well. UM, as we as 602 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: we wrap up here, what do you think, why is 603 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 1: this worth talking about? And what can and should be done? 604 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: If anything? You know, it's interesting. Um, I'm from California, 605 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 1: and so I think my understanding of the world and 606 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: how things should be is is very colored by the 607 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: you know, being from the coast and you know, relatively 608 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: affluent state where you know you can well, if you 609 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: need an abortion, you just go get one or you know, 610 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 1: And it wasn't until I moved to the South that 611 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: I realized how different things look in different parts of 612 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 1: the country. Um. You know the fact that there are 613 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,800 Speaker 1: only nine abortion providers in Georgia and nine d crisis 614 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: pregnancy centers. That's not choice, that's not options. Um. And 615 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: so I don't know the curtailing of access to fair, unbiased, 616 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 1: truthful information about what options are available to you if 617 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,839 Speaker 1: you find yourself pregnant and you're not sure that that's 618 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: the that's the direction you want to go. Uh, that's paramount. 619 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: And those rights, especially in places like Georgia, are being eroded. 620 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: It's it's less and less easy to find information that 621 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 1: women need, truly need. Um. So yeah, I mean I 622 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,720 Speaker 1: think with this coordinated effort that we're seeing in states 623 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 1: across the South and the West passing near total abortion bands, 624 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: it might go up to the Supreme Court. Who you know, 625 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 1: ro versus weight is legitimately in danger um. Yeah, this 626 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 1: is a very real issue that's going to impact millions 627 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 1: of women. Yeah. And um, like we said in our episode, 628 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: on our recent episode on abortion, it's dangerous. Um. There 629 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: there have been many cases of women's lives being endangered 630 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: or and or um the fetus or child because they 631 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 1: didn't get accurate information. Are they thought they were going 632 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: to a hospital hospital, but they were going to a 633 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 1: Catholic hospital. UM. So it just seems transparent, transparency and 634 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: knowing the facts when it comes to this, like you 635 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: have said, very dangerous thing in our country, that is 636 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: having a baby. What would you say to look for 637 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 1: those who are actually googling and we know there's these tricks, 638 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:57,800 Speaker 1: and I know we kind of body touched on a 639 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,040 Speaker 1: little bit of the things that might be missing. What 640 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,839 Speaker 1: would you say for those who are researching now um 641 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: and looking things up while they do have access some 642 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 1: of the key things that should look out for to 643 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:12,360 Speaker 1: show what is legitimately a choice site or choice center 644 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,319 Speaker 1: as opposed to one of these um Christian basin ers 645 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,839 Speaker 1: as not outright Christian. What would you say? There are 646 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 1: two links that maybe we could put in the show 647 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: notes or something UM that are super helpful. One of 648 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: them is that map that Andrea Schwarzenderuber put together of 649 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 1: all the crisis pregnancy centers across the United States. If 650 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: there's if you've identified a clinic and you're not sure, 651 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: cross reference it with that map and you'll be able 652 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:36,840 Speaker 1: to at least see what you might be able to 653 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,040 Speaker 1: expect when you go to one of these places. UM. 654 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 1: There's also there's a National Abortion Providers Center that lists 655 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,239 Speaker 1: UM affiliated abortion providers in each state, and so if 656 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 1: you want to make sure that you're going to a 657 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 1: place that is not UM, you know, opposed to providing 658 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 1: information and services around abortion, you can UM look it 659 00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,879 Speaker 1: up there. Thank you so much for joining us. Are 660 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 1: there any projects that you're working on that you want 661 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 1: to shout out while you're here, Things that you have 662 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,320 Speaker 1: done where people can find you, anything like that. UM, 663 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 1: people can find me on my website maa craft dot 664 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,400 Speaker 1: com if they want to. I don't know. I write 665 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,640 Speaker 1: on a wide range of subjects, so it's not all. 666 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,800 Speaker 1: It's not all reproductive health may not shout out anything 667 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: but awesome stuff. Nonetheless, we talked about all kinds of 668 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 1: things on this show, so go check that out if 669 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: you would like listeners, UM, thanks again, and if you 670 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,400 Speaker 1: would like to email as you can. Our email is 671 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 1: stuff Media mom stuff at i heeart media dot com. 672 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,319 Speaker 1: It's new email, but all new emails sent to the 673 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 1: old email arrived to the new career. We are professionals. UM. 674 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:44,840 Speaker 1: You can also find us on Instagram at Stuff I 675 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 1: Never Told You and on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. 676 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 1: Thanks to our super producer Andrew Howard, Play to Be, 677 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,959 Speaker 1: Thanks again to Mycroft, You're amazing, and thanks to you 678 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: for listening. Thank you, Stuff I've Never Told You. The 679 00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radios cost Stuff Works. For more 680 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,799 Speaker 1: podcast from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, 681 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 1: Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 682 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: M